Bullpen tryout day doesn’t go so well
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 26, 2007 
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It was a subdued scene after the game as the Yankees left the champagne on ice.
Clearly Joe Torre is preparing for next week as he left Vizcaino, Rivera and Chamberlain in the bullpen to rest and went to an assortment of B-level guys. Some (Kyle Farnsworth) will be around next week. Others (Jeff Karstens, Jose Veras) will not.
Some others Torre and his staff are not so sure about.
Edwar Ramirez, Brian Bruney, Chris Britton and Ron Villone are under varying degrees of consideration. Ross Ohlendorf has to be as well.
Ramirez has allowed eight runs on seven hits and four walks in his last 2.2 innings. Bruney has given up 10 runs on eight hits and seven walks in his last 6.2 innings. Both could be playing themselves off the team.
“We have to try and get (Ramirez) straightened out,� Torre said. “It’s all about aggressiveness. It looked like he was feeling his way. He’s on his heels a little bit.�
As for other matters:
That’s six 200-hit seasons for Derek Jeter. Lou Gehrig has the team record of eight.
A-Rod didn’t stick around to talk about his homer. He has 16 grand slams. Among active players, only Manny Ramirez (20) has more.
The Yankees are a grim 8-8 against the Rays.
Back it tomorrow night with Chien-Ming Wang on the mound against Thurston Howell III. Yanks have to get it done sooner or later.
pete i’d definitely rather have veras than bruney or ramirez. at this point, i don’t see how either of them could even be considerations.
if the yankees go 4 starters and 7 relievers like i would think they should (extra spot for a bench player) my 7 would be rivera, chamberlain, viz, farnsworth, ohlendorf, villone, and hughes, with veras getting some thought. i don’t even see how any other names could be considered at this point.
Olie & Villone.
Dear Joe,
You’re scaring me.
Save the mad scientist routine until after your team clinches.
I would have thought that you would know that.
whoa
Pete-
Wouldn’t you have to assume that Bruney played his way off the post season roster after tonight and his other recent performances? Also, doesn’t it seem like Joe is pretty hell-bent on Edwar? It seems like his 15 minutes are done to me.
worst case of mismanagement i’ve seen all year. what a waste of a-rods grand slam. why throw this easily winnable game away? with karstens, who will never pitch for this team again.
I really don’t understand why Torre didn’t choose to try and clinch and then do bullpen tryout days the rest of the week.
Odds are they will get the Wild Card, but you know, you’d think they’d have learned in 2004 that a sure thing is never a sure thing. If you can blow a 3-0 lead in the LCS, what says you can’t blow a 4.5 wild card lead with 5 games left?
Putting KArstens in really has me baffled. Is he even remotely beng considered for the postseason? I don’t think so. They said they wanted to try Joba on b2b days and this would ahve been a good opportunity tonight. top of the order was due up next inning for the Yanks. You had to like their chances of getting a run.
Putting KArstens in was just conceding defeat. Every fan knew it. Torre had to as well.
Veras has been so much better than Bruney. My pitching staff for the postseason would look like this:
Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Rocket, Hughes, Rivera, Chamberlain, Vizcaino, Farnsworth choose 2: Veras, Ohlendorf, Ramirez, Villone
Its pretty much a crapshoot once you get passed Rivera, Chamberlain and Vizcaino.
Honestly, if they have to use anyone other than Viz, Chamberlain and Mo they’re having bigger problems anyway.
If your starters aren’t going at least 6 in the postseason you won’t be there long.
Thursten Howell III?
Sounds like tenth generation Yalie.
No offense.
Actually, at a Syracuse Chiefs game earlier this year, my friend and I made fun of a guy for having the name John-Ford Griffen, for the exact same reason.
Oh, that was fun…
The starters will go six or seven. If they have a lead, Joba will pitch up to two innings, and Mo will pitch one. Game in, game out.
If it’s they are behind by one or two, Viz will pitch. If they are behind by more than two, the bullpen filler will pitch.
If it’s tied, who knows?
Bruney and Edwar should not be on the post season roster. They have definitely pitched themselves off, maybe Villone too.
That said, I feel good about clinching tonight!
if they are pitching there bums everyone except the big 3 then they will lose so why are these tryout important anyway??
You have tryouts once you clinch and what Torre did tonight was terible and foolish and unexcuseable but no one seems to care..
they throw ramirez, bruney, verays, britton, kyle, and karstens and ecpect to win, be real evern the tampa pen is better then that…they have 3 reliable pitchersz in the pen and 2.5 starters; 3/4 of pettitte, 3/4 of wangand .5 of Clemens and .5 of whoever.. this team cannot pitch and if there starters do not go minimum 6 in the playoffs they are in big trouble…
Can anybody please adviseme the rationale to use Karstens under such critical situations? His ERA is two digits. I don’t get it.
And another thing. It is killing me that Tampa Bay has killed the Yankees this year between them coughing up game after game to the sox and the Yanks inability to play better than .500 against them. CLINCH TONIGHT!
Basically whoever he picks will just be making up the numbers. If I have to see anyone other than Joba, Farnsworth, Viz and Mo in the game then that game is going to be turned off the telly. Tonight was an absolute disgrace. I would love to see if Bruney throws another hissy fit if he gets left off the roster.
rivera, joba, vizcaino, farnsworth, veras, ohlendorf, hughes
I guess Iggy was wildly effective and was taken out after 87 pitches. I didn’t understand that. I think Ohlendorf should make the postseason roster. He has perform since being called up and it helps to have a dominate sinker. I’m a big fan of Chris Britton and I don’t understand why he isn’t allowed to pitch a whole inning. That baffles me. Hopefully, we’ll come out tomorrow with a better showing.
I believe Ohlendorf can at least get an out. I don’t believe that about Ramirez.
If you’re really going to try and crawl into Torre’s brain and figure out what he’s thinking, you’ve got to start with being forced to use Igawa. I know no professional athlete will admit it, but perhaps a loss tonight was a foregone conclusion. With Torre admitting he got more than he could have asked for from Igawa, you’ve got to think the scrubs in the bullpen were on alert. Torre was probably expecting Kei to maybe make it through 4 innings giving up at least 4 runs. He already mentioned they wanted to get Ramirez out there to see if they fixed his mechanical flaw, I’m thinking this whole game was preplanned from the beginning. If they were lucky enough to win tonight, so be it, if not they were going to throw guys out there and see who stuck. Torre and the Yankees no full well that the division title isn’t what it’s all about, it’s about the ring. He’s not going to up and say that in public, but you’ve got to believe that’s what the team is thinking. You all know the old adage, sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war.
Tomorrow night they’ll be looking to lock things up. Unless things go horribly wrong, you’ll be seeing Wang for 6 or 7, Joba for the 8th, and Mo in the 9th. Pepper in the Viz if you need him. As soon as Clemens was down, Joe was looking towards tomorrow, at this point, probably rightfully so. This wasn’t the beginning of a playoff series, so all the second guessing is really a waste of time. Torre’s a smart guy, he knows what to say to the players, he knows what to say to the media, and he knows what not to say to the fans. They’ll wrap it up tomorrow and begin to rest for the playoffs.
On another note, keep in mind that if the Indians or Angels end up with the best record they’ll most likely choose the series with the extra day of rest…thus benefiting the Yankees as well, since they’ll play the team with the best record as long as it’s not the Sox. So let’s just hope the Indians or Angels best the Red Sox, and the Yankees can worry about them if they face them in the ALCS.
We all know, as long as the Yankees take care of themselves, things will be fine.
What makes you so sure that Veras has no shot, Peter?
The Yanks don’t really need the 14th position player. That would probably be Alberto Gonzalez. Let’s face it, there’s no way Jeter is leaving a playoff game for a defensive replacement. And Gonzalez can’t hit. His only use would be as maybe a pinch-runner (for Giambi/Posada/Duncan) or an emergency guy in case Jeter goes down to injury. And in that case Betemit would be the logical substitute anyway. So I’d go with 12 pitchers. The Yankee pitching is very shaky and it would be good to have an extra arm, just in case. They would be more likely to need an extra arm (like in an extra inning game or a very short outing from Clemens/Mussina) rather than the extra bench player (in case of injury to Jeter).
Also, is it known at this point that Boston is going to pick the shorter ALDS series that starts on Thursday if they get the best record? The Yankee announcer Kay made it sound like Boston would obviously go that route. And it seems very logical that Cle/LAA would go for the longer ALDS series that starts Wednesday if they get the best record. So if that’s true about Boston, then the wild-card Yankees will definitely get to play in the series where they could use a 3-man rotation no matter who has the best record. I’m just not so sure if Kay is accurate in his conviction that Boston would surely choose to play game 1 on Thursday.
What a bummer of a day yesterday. It went from the thrill of getting playoff tickets for all 3 rounds to the chill of realizing the Yanks don’t have the pitching to beat anybody. A team can’t win a World Series with just a 3 man bullpen. To make matters worse, if Clemens can’t pitch the Yankees will have to depend on Mike Mussina. No wonder I woke up in a sweat this morning.
If Joe Torre uses Brian Bruney in another game this year, he should be fired on the spot.
Its tough enough to make the playoffs. Its even tougher when the manager is in the way of that happening.
Only Joe Torre would even think somebody like Brian Bruney would have a shot at being on a playoff roster.
The season turned around when Brian Cashman blew up the bullpen and took Torre’s toys away from him. Bruney was one of the toys he took away. Now, inexplicably, he is back and Torre “trusts” him again. Is it any wonder last night was a carbon copy of earlier this season?
I really don’t know why its so difficult for him to just win the game, THEN hold tryout camp for the only spot left on the post-season roster. Its hard for me to understand why he needs to blow games to figure this out.
The Yankees are just going to have to save Torre from himself. That means, score enough runs so you take any pitching decisions out of his hands.
Left to his own devices, you will do whatever is necessary to make this thing interesting. Why? I have no idea.
Just another reason why this season has to be his swan song.
_If Joe Torre uses Brian Bruney in another game this year, he should be fired on the spot._
Yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s fire the manager a week before the post-season begins. That makes a lot of sense.
I’m sure that wouldn’t throw the entire organization into a media circus for the ages or have an adverse affect on the team just before the biggest games of the season.
I know Sj44 often portrays himself as the “wise man” on these boards, but I don’t see anything but over-reactionary hyperbole after a Yankee loss.
Is it me or does this guy only come around when the Yanks lose or are playing like crap? I rarely see any commentary when the team is playing well or kicking the opponent’s butt.
Why is that?
Torre’s bullpen management will get better when his options are better. Once the starting pitching comes around and throws 7 IP+ on a nightly basis as they did in the late 1990s and early 2000s, his bullpen management becomes less of an issue.
When he only has 2 dependable arms out there on a given night, it’s often hard to choose between cow dung and horse dung.
farnsworth had one of his best outings last night . agressive and dominating .
kei igawa gave the yanks a chance to win . tons of pitches . more balls than strikes but he still shut ‘em out for 5 innings .
bruhney was terrible . and i like bruhney . but now i see why the deadbacks released him .
so now we see who the yanks bullpen consists of . which would be joba , mo and the viz . all others are untrustworthy .
i have to agree with some of the other posters . torre should of had these alleged try outs after the yanks clinched the wils card . so the questiuon is , who do you put in the 6th inning to pitch ? igawa to the viz for 2 innings , farnsworhtless then mo in the 9th . thats what i would have done , its what i was calling for from my easy chair .
Ohlendorf has pitched only a few MLB innings and was less than impressive in Triple A. I don’t understand why everyone thinks he’s a lock for the playoff roster.
“Yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s fire the manager a week before the post-season begins. That makes a lot of sense”
Never heard of hyperbole?
Is Joe Morphing into Willie? He can’t see that neither Edwar nor Brian should be anywhere near the post season roster?
SJ’s right. I’m not on nor have I ever been on the “fire torre” bandwagon, but why in God’s name is he putting Bruney and Britton in to clean up Ramirez’ mess???? Then leaving Bruney in after he loaded the bases with yet another walk… This time I will say without question Joe Torre lost that game, no-one else.
I can go up there and walk guys. Don’t we have someone that can hold a FIVE RUN LEAD against a LAST PLACE TEAM to clinch a PLAYOFF SPOT? Yes, we do, and they were all sitting on the bench.
Yes, we’ll get it tonight with the Wanger on the mound (assuming he can find his sinker away from home), but it should have been done last night, THEN rest guys and audition relievers.
Horse before cart please.
I have a good feeling about tonight too. I think we will pull this one out. Plus not that we want to clinch this way Santana is facing the tigers, and he is due for a great game!!
good point about Santana jennifer 27. But as you said, I don’t wanna clinch via their loss, especially considering last night should’ve been an easy W.
Last night was a disgrace, IMO. After the lax attitude the game Monday seemed to have, they needed to come back out and set the tone that they’re not asleep. A 5-0 or 5-1 victory might have done that. They need to do that tonight and keep some momentum, then come out with more energy and focus than they did in last year’s ALDS.
The last two days certainly didn’t look like we’re the hottest team in baseball anymore. It’s the hottest team that wins in the playoffs, not always the best. We need to be both.
I actually think they should have a players only meeting, we can’t let the lax attitude continue given they played like they were sleep walking on Monday, than couldn’t touch the scrubs the rays were throwing out there.
I think Torre has done a great job this year. However, with a 5-0 lead after 5 innings, it seems to make more sense to use your A team and lock up the wild card and play with pitchers for the rest of the week. I think Igawa should have stayed in longer, at least through the 6th. Then Farnsworth, Joba and Mo. I’ve seen a lot of baseball, and Bruney is not worthy of pinstripes. Ok, he throws up to 95mph, but he has no out pitch. Grooving one to a minor league player for a slam cannot be forgiven. If the Yanks clinch tonight, let Bruney pitch the rest of the week. Until they clinch, you cannot use Bruney. As for Edwar, I think he has potential, but he has to throw strikes. Another big disappointment last night was Giambi and Betemit.
Hey, you know how all you guys were making fun of the Red Sox fans who were jumping off the bridge last week as their lead slipped? Yeah, well you’re turning into them.
For one thing, this game just didn’t matter, and to get all worked up about it is ridiculous. Yeah yeah yeah, they could have clinched the WC. Oh well. Seriously, it’s not worth all this anger.
Besides, Mo, Viz, and Joba all need rest any way. Those guys are absolutely crucial to NY’s post season, there’s just no way Torre’s going to run them out there against an ultimately meaningless game against Tampa.
And can we please, please get off the fire-Torre bandwagon already? I don’t know if you were paying attention, but the guy just lead his team from 14.5 games back into a playoff spot. And you’re ready to fire him because the Yanks dropped a game against Tampa? Are you serious?
You can’t blame Torre for every loss, but not credit him for the wins.
In conclusion: calm. down. It’s one game. Blahblahblah, the Yanks should have played harder to lock up the WC, blahblahblah. Maybe some of you have suddenly and inexplicably lost all faith in NY, but I’m still pretty sure they’ll manage to win at least one game this week. There’s really no need to panic quite yet.
Does Wilson striking out suprise you? He has done nothing since his first 10 ab.
Jason disappoints me, his role is going to be ph off the bench, he needs to come up in that spot and get a hit.
Rivera
Chamberlain (21 2/3 IP of MLB experience relieving)
Vizcaino
Mussina (3 2/3 IP MLB experience in the bullpen)*
Ohlendorf (ditto)
Hughes (zero MLB experience in the bullpen)
Kennedy (ditto)
* Assuming a three-man A.L.D.S. rotation of Pettitte/ Wang/ Clemens/ Pettitte/ Wang
Total MLB experience in the bullpen outside of Mo and Viz:
29 IP.
Total MLB experience in the bullpen outside of Mo, Viz, and Joba: 7 1/3 IP.
Betemit striking out was about as sure a thing as Karstens blowing that lead.
If Kennedy can’t pitch in the postseason bullpen, my guess is it’d be Veras or Farnsworth in his place if Torre didn’t care about having a lefty, just someone who can get guys out, Villone if he wanted a lefty. That last bullpen slot will be won by whoever suc ks the least if Mussina isn’t in the pen.
Ramirez and Bruney most likely disqualified themselves after last night. Karstens, Britton, Henn, and White don’t look like they’re in the picture. So it comes down to Veras, Farnsworth, and Villone and it make sense considering Veras and Villone were deemed good enough to be paid $2M each this year and Farnsworth is making what he’s making. Letting go of those two and trading Farnsworth after this season would clear $9.25M or 9.75M in salary (Villone’s $2M + Veras’ $2M + Farnsworth’s $5.25M or $5.75M, I forgot which). That plus letting go of Ramirez, Bruney, Britton, and Henn for about $12M in salary should give them enough money to sign 4 new relievers to complement a re-signed Mo and Viz plus Ohlendorf.
the Proctor for Betemit thing still puzzles me a little.
Maybe he’ll come up with a game winning hit in the WS and everyone will say, “great move!!!” But so far, I don’t see how it’s improved the team. Bullpen still has question marks, to say the least, and has Betemit been evan as good as Cairo, let alone better? Nope.
Ok, I think we can all agree that our locks are:
Catcher (2) – Posada, Molinda
IF (6) – Giambi, Mientkiewicz, Cano, Jeter, Rodriguez, Betemit
OF (4) – Damon, Matsui, Cabrera, Abreu
Pitchers (9) – Wang, Pettitte, Clemens (if healthy), Mussina, Hughes, Rivera, Chamberlain, Vizcaino, and I guess Farnsworth
That leaves 4 more spots. Personally I go with Duncan, Ohlendorf, Veras, and Villone. I understand the need for a RH bat off the bench, so Duncan is a given – but among those 3 pitchers, Ohlendorf is clearly #1 for me.
Who do you go with?
And to anyone who thinks Ohlendorf shouldn’t be among those 4, please explain how anyone else is a better fit.
O.T.
‘Funny -I was checking out a story on S.F. not wanting Bonds next year and decided to check the team’s official website, specifically the stats. Omar Vizquel has 2,595 hits. Do you think he reaches 3,000 hits? ‘Say he collected 5 more hits in the final 5 games of the season for an even 2,600 career hits through this year (possible if he goes just 5 for 20, probably 2 or 3 hits in one game to get that 5). Could he 1. play 2 more years after next year (cuz he’ll land with someone if S.F. doesn’t re-sign him) and 2. collect 400 hits in those 3 years? That’s only 133 hits a year for 2 years, 134 for one year. I know he’s old but he had a decent 2007 for his age. His early career with Seattle and 2003 hurt him (
It’s not easy bein’ green:
I don’t care about the experience of Ohlendorf, or the fact that Hughes/Kennedy have never pitched out of the pen.
You tell me you want Bruney in a game over Hughes. It’s that simple. Go ahead, say it – I dare you.
Jon, I think you’ve got the core down just right.
I think Duncan is a certainty and of the others, I feel pretty sure Villone makes it too.
Of the others, I somehow think that if Ramirez has a couple of good innings before the end of the season, he will make it. Joe Torre keeps mentioning that he likes bringing in a different style pitcher than the fireballing type to throw off hitters timing.
For me the additional choice comes down to another pitcher vs a pinch runner. It’s quite possible that with Giambi, Posada, and Dougy in the game there could be a need for a speedy pinch runner and none of the bench people have speed. So I think if the Yankees get the schedule with the extra day off, they’ll pick Gonzalez or Sardinha and go with 11 pitchers.
This is an area where Cairo would have been of better value than Betemit.
I have no problem with the trade of Proctor but getting rid of Cairo for Betemit in my opinion was smart unless there is a second move with Betemit in the off season or unless they think they can get more out of him than we’ve seen so far.
To sum up, my additions to your core are: Duncan, Villone, Ramirez, and Gonzalez/Sardinha
Larry
Sorry, mistyped a section. “Getting rid of Cairo was NOT smart” is how it should read.
Maybe it’s me, but I don’t see the point of getting very worked up about last night. Torre had to anticipate a loss last night given that Igawa was starting. It would not have been a bad time to decide, and plan, to showcase the up-in-the-air bullpen denizens. That Igawa pitched 5 shut-out innings is certainly something that Torre didn’t expect: come on, did you? Should he have changed course and gone after the win when Igawa came out in the 5th? Maybe. Would you rather he trotted out the reliever parade spontaneously some other time between now and the post-season? Maybe. But I don’t think the fact that we saw Bruney last night means that Torre has lost his mind and that we’ll see him in the post season. This was not a must-win. If you believe that, by hook or by crook, the Yankees aren’t going to win one more game this season, then it doesn’t matter anyway, does it?
Are the Devil Rays really throwing the millionaire from Gilligans Island against the Yanks tonight?
Oh, also I’ll take Maryann over Ginger any day of the week.
Larry (scarletknight64 – Rutgers grad? me too…)
I’d prefer Ohlendorf to Villone, especially since Villone isn’t much better against lefties than he is against righties. But I could live with it I guess.
I suppose if Ramirez has a great couple games this week, I’d be ok with him. Honestly I think I’d prefer him to Villone too.
Duncan of course I agree with.
As for the pinch runner – I guess, especially if we have the 8 day series. But it’s not like either of those guys are real burners. But yeah, I see the value of one of them replacing Posada or Giambi – like last night.
Actually this is pretty complicated, because there are really 4 scenarios to consider:
1) Clemens can pitch, we’re in the 8 day series (3 starters needed)
2) Clemens can pitch, 4 starters needed
3) Clemens can’t pitch, 3 starters needed
4) Clemens can’t pitch, 4 starters needed
Each scenario could result in a different roster. In #4 specifically, I think you have to go with 12 pitchers.
My four roster spots would go to Duncan (if he’s healthy enough to produce), Kennedy, Ohlendorf, and Villone. If no Clemens or no Duncan, I think the two spots should go to Britton and Igawa, in that order. I know the choice of Igawa is probably strange given his huge struggles as a starter, but he’s done really well when he hasn’t had enough time to think about pitching and he’s just been thrown out there in spot starts or out of the bullpen.
“Yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s fire the manager a week before the post-season begins. That makes a lot of sense.”
It makes more sense than bringing Torre back next season.
Anthony – Kennedy is definitely out for round 1.
I think I’d go with Britton over Villone as well.
If no Clemens AND we need 4 starters, you need someone who can give you innings in case of disasterous start. I guess that would be Igawa over Clippard. It would also seem to give yet another edge to Ohlendorf since he was a starter in the minors. I’m sure he could go 3 if need be.
The way I see it, with your 12th and 13th pitchers, you want someone who has the potential to dominate – like the way Moose did in game 7 in 2003. That’s why I prefer Ohlendorf and Ramirez to Villone.
Jon, yes a Rutgers grad. I suspect I’m bringing up the average age on the blog but I learn a lot here too.
The Clemens factor is signficant for the roster and their chances. I get the feeling he could pitch now if he had to but that they are using the time to allow him to recover more. If that’s right, then he’s likely to be on the roster, barring a setback. And it sounds like the Angels and Cleveland would both pick the longer schedule but that still could change from where there records are now.
Why is Kennedy definitely out for round 1? Because of his wedding, the rules, or what? Though I guess he won’t really be needed in round one since we’ll have Hughes there.
The only reason I’d pick Villone over Britton is just that he’s got more experience and in the playoffs that can count. Villone is going to be the same pitcher he normally is, Britton, who knows.
Ramirez’s stock has dwindled with me recently. Maybe he’s better when he doesn’t come in after another soft-tosser like Igawa and gives the opposing team a new speed to look at. I wouldn’t be against seeing him on the roster, in any event. After Mo, Joba, and Viz (and the new Farnsworth), you don’t know what you’re going to get- they all have dominated at times and have all looked horrible at others. The only request of Torre I make is no Bruney or Veras.
BTW, I’m also a Rutgers grad, go RU!
I’m suprised about the talk of Boston picking the shorter schedule. I have to think that the dropoff from #2 to #4 (Schilling to Wakefield) for them is the biggest of all the teams.
Note that the dropoff from #2 to #4 is what you need to look at, because the schedules play out as follows:
8 days: #1, #2, #3, #1, #2
7 days: #1, #2, #3, #4, #1
Cleveland goes from Carmona to Byrd. LA from Lackey to Saunders, I guess. NY from Wang/Pettitte to Mussina.
The more I think about it, it’s actually a tough call to decide who should want a short series.
I think if Boston plays LA, and Boston decides, they go for the long series. LA would choose the short series against Boston.
(man, there are a lot of combinations here).
If Boston plays Cleveland, and Boston decides, it could go either way, but I think Boston wants a short series. I think Cleveland wants the long series.
If Boston plays LA and Cleveland decides, they pick the long series against the Yankees.
If Boston plays Cleveland and LA decides, LA picks the short series against the Yankees.
So I think it looks like this:
Team we play // Team with best record // short or long series for us?
Cleveland // Cleveland // long
Cleveland // Boston // short
Cleveland // LA // long
LA // Cleveland // short
LA // Boston // long
LA // LA // short
So it looks like roughly a 50/50 chance of having the short or long series.
But, as the WC team, we play the team out of Cleveland and LA that has the better record. So that means that LA can’t have the best record if we play Cleveland, and Cleveland can’t have the best record if we play LA. That eliminates one long possibility and one short possibility.
So still, there’s a 50/50 chance. Two outcomes would result in a short series, and two in a long series.
So we’ve got to prepare for both.
Sorry if that was a bit too long and geeky – anyone agree/disagree?
It seems to me people want Ohlendorf on the playoff roster simply becaue he has had so few chances to be bad. He’s not a good pitcher and wasn’t anything special in Triple A. I wouldn’t trust him more than anyone else.
“Why is Kennedy definitely out for round 1? Because of his wedding, the rules, or what?”
He has a strained back and has been shutdown. I doubt he’ll be healthy in time for the ALDS.
“Sorry, mistyped a section. “Getting rid of Cairo was NOT smartâ€? is how it should read.”
You have to be kidding me. I think Cashman getting rid of the crappy players that Torre refused to stop using is a big reason we turned the season aroudn.
Ohlendorf was a good prospect, so I don’t know where your blanket statement “not a good pitcher” comes from. He can throw 97, and has been great so far, albeit in a tiny tiny sample size. He can pitch more than one inning. His minor league numbers were as a starter, so they’re misleading. He regularly threw 3 IP as a reliever in the minors, and if a starter gets knocked out early, we need someone who has at least a chance of pitching 2-3 scoreless innings.
“It seems to me people want Ohlendorf on the playoff roster simply becaue he has had so few chances to be bad.”
To an extent you’re right. The other options have had plenty of chances to be bad, and HAVE been bad.
So you’re saying you’d prefer the guys that are proven to be bad over the guy who has shown flashes of brilliance and nas NOT yet been bad?
I’m not saying Ohlendorf is some kind of savior. I’m saying he’s better (or, if you prefer, less awful) than the other options.
And as a reliver, majors and minors combined, he has walked 4 batters in 25.1 innings, and has a 21/4 K/BB ratio.
He also had a 29 inning stretch where his K/BB was 21/18, got crushed by lefties to the tune of an .875 OPS in Triple A, and seems to have very hittable stuff. I don’t think he’s flashed anymore “brilliance” this year than someone like Edwar. Hopefully, we won’t need either one in the playoffs.
I guess my point is that I think he WILL be bad and only hasn’t been bad because of limited opportunities.
My choices for the last 2 bullpen spots would also be Ohlendorf and Villone. I know Ohlendorf has a small sample size, but he throws strikes. Bruney and Edwar don’t, at least not right now. However, I haven’t given up on Edwar by any means, I still believe he can be an effective reliever, but not right now and not in the playoffs. He has some work to do over the offseason. Does anyone know if he has ever had a 3rd pitch that he’s thrown?
Anyway, as far as Torre having held auditions last night for the pen. That should really be saved for AFTER we clinch although someone did make the fairly astute argument that maybe he needed to see what these guys do in big spots, not meaningless games.
But my issue is less with the fact that he decided to have auditions last night, than it is with WHO he decided to audition. Britton faced one batter, Villone barely pitched and Ohlendorf didn’t pitch at all. If he’s trying to fill the last 2 pen spots, aren’t those 3 the ones he should have been auditioning? (Well, along with Edwar, but he had his chance and failed last nite.)
Why is he thinking that Bruney, Veras or Karstens could pitch in the playoffs? Especially Bruney, he hasn’t thrown strikes in ages and even has been giving up what seems like way more homers since he returned from the minors. What exactly was he auditioning Bruney for? We already know he can’t throw strikes and as such shouldn’t be on the playoff roster.
So there was no reason to pitch him. I was very hard on Torre last night but I can accept in theory that he wanted to hold auditions to see how these guys would do in big spots. I can’t accept it in practice though, cause he didn’t audition the right guys!
BBB – agree completely. I don’t blame Torre for not bringing in the top guys in the 6th inning. But this would have been an absolutely perfect spot for Ohlendorf to come in and try to pitch 2 nice innings. I don’t mind Ramirez, but Bruney coming in made me sick (before he threw a pitch even). Like I said before, it may be good news, because now he must be out of the running for a playoff spot…I hope…
One other thing – why hasn’t there been any talk of Hughes getting an inning or two of work out of the pen? Now that it’s virtually guaranteed that we’re the WC team and thus can’t have home-field advantage in any series, there’s nothing worth playing for. Clippard should start tomorrow in place of Hughes, then bring Hughes in for an inning or two of relief. Then bring him in as a reliever on Saturday as well.
What are they waiting for? Do you think it means they’re actually not considering him as a reliever for the playoffs? That would be an awful decision…he could easily be our 3rd best guy out of the pen…
As far as the bullpen goes, expect to see a whole lot of the Viz and Chamberlain..
Mo, Joba, Viz, Farnsworth, and Hughes are locks
the last 2 spots seem to be who ever has the best week from the villone/ohlendorf/veras/britton group
i think edwar has done more than enough to ensure he doesnt make the roster
no need to discuss bruney, hes garbage
Igawa’s going to make bullpen.