The Sunday Links
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 30, 2007 
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Chien-Ming Wang will start Game 1 on Thursday in Cleveland. Oh, by the way, the Yankees beat the Orioles 11-10.
The Sunday Baseball Notes suggests that Joe Torre should return as manager. If Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera have earned new deals, hasn’t the manager?
Game 162 is today. Back later with the lineups as Posada manages the Yankees against the Orioles.
all sounds good. Any word on who will be the hitting coach, pitching coach, etc
The pitching coach is moose.
Torre shouldn’t return as manager because he is a horrible in-game manager esp. with the bullpen. His dumb bullpen moves are the reason why the Yanks didn’t win the division and have home-field advantage throughout the playoffs this year. If he managed the way he’s managed when the dynasty was over (to me after 2001) with lesser talent and a team with much less money to spend on it, he’d have been fired long ago. He wouldn’t have a clue hence Clueless Joe, a nickname I didn’t come up with. Had he managed the 1989/90/91 Yankees, he’d have been fired just like Dent, Merrill, and Green were. Please tell me what he would’ve brought to one, any two, or all three of those teams to make them a winner? Showalter is better than him on 1992-95 alone cuz the Yanks turned things around with Showalter -he had a big part in that besides Gene Michael rebuilding the team with draft picks, shrewd trades, and more pointed signings (Key, Boggs, etc.) Torre has never faced on-field adversity in any season before this one. Torre’s so bad with the bullpen, Cashman and Nardi Contreras had to give him rules on how to use Chamberlain. You think he wouldn’t wreck any number of signed free-agent middle relievers, think again. He has been outmanaged by the same guy twice (Scioscia incl. Scioscia’s rookie season as a manager), another rookie (Brenly), two retreads (McKeon and Francona), and a guy just like him who had more than enough talent to win a World Series (Leyland).
He blew Game 7 of the 2001 World Series by bringing in Rivera an inning too early. B.t.w. what if that game was still tied at the point where keeping Mo in would’ve jeopardized his career? What would Torre have done then? I shudder to think. He blew the 2003 World Series twofold: Wells and Weaver. Torre with help from Zimmer, Stottlemyre, and Monahan didn’t make absolutely sure David Wells was good to go to make his start. Everyone blames Wells when they should’ve blamed the six eyes who could’ve seen he wasn’t fit to pitch. Maybe Contreras pitches much better than he did. Torre blew Game 4 of the 2003 World Series by bringing in Jeff Weaver to hold a tie in extra innings at the away park. He batted A-Rod eighth in Game 4 of last year’s A.L.D.S. basically putting up the white flag on the season.
Torre’s an overrated, lucky, blessed so-so who got fired by the three previous teams he managed to one measly postseason series (1982 Atlanta Braves). That Braves team got to the postseason on Dale Murphy’s N.L.M.V.P. season wayyy before Torre. No one in the Yankees organization wanted him save Steinbrenner who made him and I bet you didn’t want Torre here when you first heard he got hired esp. after his days with the Mets. He should’ve been fired after the 2004 A.L.C.S. and you know what? The 2005, 2006, and 2007 Yankees would’ve still made the postseason, just like next year’s team will make the postseason as well without him. The Yanks don’t need him.
Don’t tell me Tony LaRussa with Dave Duncan wouldn’t get the job done as Yankee manager and pitching coach respectively.
LaRussa is a great manager in his own right: 5 World Series appearances, 2 World Series titles, one in each league. He just drew a hot 1988 L.A. team, a powerhouse 1990 Cincinatti team, and a 2004 team of destiny in the Red Sox. Torre lost to a pair of friggin’ wildcard teams who when you look back had nowhere close to the talent as the Yankee teams they beat save the R.J.-Schilling 1-2. He beat a lame-duck San Diego team, a perennial World Series chokeartist Atlanta,
and a psyched out Mets, psyched out by what an absolute wildman Clemens was in Game 2 throwing the bat towards/ at Piazza. Clemens set the tone in that series .He got inside the Mets head and they could never recover. Torre barely had to manage the 1998, 1999, and 2000 World Series.
Your comparing Torre to Mo and Posada is ridiculous and at the height of your Torre Is God crusade. Torre wouldn’t be manager of four World Series champions without Rivera, but Rivera certainly would’ve won all those W.S. without Torre.
Please tell me what Torre has done in any of the four World Series where one could say with certainty his in-game decisions not no-duh lineup card filling helped them win it all. I count one: starting Jose Vizcaino vs. Al Leiter in Game 1 of the 2000 World Series, but that was a no-brainer considering Vizcaino owned Leiter, so that doesn’t count. Torre’s lucky he has the greatest reliever of all time and the best catcher in M.L.B. who is batting like prime Mike Piazza and 2006 Joe Mauer. Torre is also lucky to be a manager with a team who has a seemingly neverending stream of money to throw at players. How many managers can have a Hall Of Famer sign on for June on only for $28M?
If the Yanks win the World Series this year, they should let go of Torre because it was way more their will to win than him. Also he’s not worth the more than what he’s made in his current contract. Time for LaRussa and Duncan who can tutor Wang, Chamberlain, Hughes, and Kennedy, something Torre and Guidry have not done and never will cuz they can’t. The Yanks don’t need a figurehead who can’t manage a close game (see the 2007 Yanks wretched record in one-run games and don’t tell me that isn’t mostly cuz of Torre cuz it is -he threw away many a game).
Oh please, enough with the Torre should be brought back nonsense. It’s really tiresome.
He is a major reason that they haven’t won a WS since 2001 and why they had a huge deficit to overcome this season. His bullpen management is putrid.
Thanks for the memories, but it’s tome to move on.
Here’s an example of how Torre will hinder not help the Yanks chances of advancing to this year’s A.L.C.S:
He will start Mussina in Game 4 not Hughes even though Mussina is a hasbeen who su cked so badly, a rookie callup (Kennedy) took his job and Hughes is better than Mussina. Yeah, let’s start a guy who implodes out of nowhere against a dead Baltimore team (Mussina 9/28) over a guy who was solid in his last start and has been solid for most of September (Hughes). Hughes should start that game, but Torre will go with “experience” even though Mussina’s best postseason appearance was in relief (relief appearance in Game 7 of the 2003 World Series where he came in to hold down Boston). I don’t count his pitching in the Jeter Flip Toss game cuz that game was won on that. Mussina has been a postseason chokeartist for the most part.
Torre will basically do the equivalent of starting Sheffield and Matsui in the postseason after months of the team winning without them (2006) only this time (2007), he will disrupt the chemistry of the rotation by starting a guy who doesn’t deserve to be in it as the Game 4 starter (Mussina). The Yanks owe Mussina NOTHING. They gave him 8 years and well over $100M to make an impact in October and he’s failed miserably. He’s lucky he got a two-year extension after 2006 cuz he’d be a goner after this one. I wouldn’t have even picked up his option. I’d have cleared $15.5M buying him out ($17M he made in 2006 – $1.5M buyout) and used that to sign Ted Lilly and still would’ve had millions to play with. The Yanks should trade him after this year. If they don’t and he blows next year, release him and have Kennedy or if he’s straightened out Igawa in his place. Let Boston, the Angels, or Cleveland sign him -bring him on! He wasn’t even all that vs. the Yanks in his prime.
Gee Tim…why don’t you tell us how you really feel…stop holding back. lol
I would be the first to admit that I am not qualified to decide whether Joe should be sent packing or not.
However, I do feel that the Joba Rules may offer a clue to the future. When they feel they have to tell you how to use the players they send you…why do they need you to manage?
I gotta believe that Joe wasn’t too happy about that and his professional pride may just have him moving on no matter what happens.
It seems curious too that if people are told not to discuss the Joba Rules and then Joe constantly talks about them…hmmm I think that is insubordination.
In any event, I trust Cashman and like the moves he has been making now that he has consolidated his authority. If he says Joe stays, I am okay with it. If he says he goes, I am okay with that too.
As for the players wishes…they just need to do their jobs which they are paid rather handsomely to do no matter who the manager is.
Whoa
You have to remember, Peter is a Yankees beat writer, and a beat writer’s job is to not ruffle the feathers of who he’s covering. If he ever said Torre shouldn’t return -and you know Yankee players read this blog- he’d never get a quote from a Yankee again, and that’s a fact, Peter. It’s much easier and safer to be pro-Torre than to write an article giving 10 reasons why Torre should be let go.
Jesse
I’m not qualified to decide whether Torre should stay or go either, but I never said that. “No more Torre is right”: Peter is shackled to his beat. You, Peter, can’t say anything negative about Torre because the players have Torre’s back cuz that’s what most players do. If you are anti-Torre, they will consider you a ghost as that’s the code of players. Look at Paul LoDuca -he may privately hate Willie Randolph but he has went off on anyone who criticizes Willie. Look at David Wright who went out of his way to say it wasn’t Willie i.e. the losing before yesterday.
Let’s look at next year:
The rotation will most likely be Wang, Pettitte, Chamberlain, Hughes, and unfortunately Mussina and not Kennedy or Humberto Sanchez. Dave Duncan would bury Guidry as a pitching coach. Guidry is best as a guy you talk with before/ after games, in day to day life on your own time (much like Al Leiter used to call and receive calls from Sandy Koufax when he was a Met), and spring training. I haven’t read anything from any writers about what Guidry has done to turn around any Yankee pitcher having problems. Name me one. He’s a chew-the-fat guy not an instructor like Duncan who’s also ressurected careers (Met killer Jeff Suppan et.al.) Torre is even less of an instructor than Guidry who was a pitcher. Yankees bullpen coach Joe Kerrigan is a better, more experienced instructor than Guidry. Guidry is a figurehead hire just like Don Mattingly will be a figurehead manager.
The bullpen will most likely be Mo, Vizcaino, Farnsworth (mainly for the $5+M hes making no one will take off the Yans hands, not even a part of that), Ohlendorf, and three new relievers, probably signed free-agents. Torre will most likely blow out one or more arms.
The starting nine will probably be as is only with Giambi at DH, Matsui in LF, and Damon traded somehow cuz there’s no room for him unless he moves to 1B.
The bench will be whatever it is.
Tony LaRussa is just a better in-game manager than Torre and so better than Torre overall, the Yanks win the 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000 World Series AND 2001 or 2003 W.S. if not both with him, I truly believe that. I truly believe LaRussa would’ve managed Game 7 of the 2001 World Series and Game 4 of the 2003 World Series better than Torre did. I mean I’m not talking about a retread here. LaRussa is a Hall Of Fame manager.
I swear you haters give me more heartburn then what the yankees have given me all year (and thats a lot). Why cant you just be happy that they made it to the playoffs instead of always complaining. Get real.
It’s time for the playoffs..worry about Torre and the other Crap after the season!
We need to play our asses off and just WIN!
I do not think I can take what would happen if the Sox win the WS again…the AL East was bad enough!
Look for yourself…
http://i22.tinypic.com/2ldyjhd.gif
Peter,
Just when I think you’re over your totally irrational ARod hatred, you write that he was an “emotional cripple” in spring training. Your only support for this completely nonsensical statement is that he was “oddly focused” on two subjects that he was continually questioned about by you and your peers, and that he publicly addressed one time each. How, exactly, is that oddly focused? And even if he was oddly focused on those two subjects, how does that equate to being an emotional cripple? Your assumptions and conclusions are both flawed. Every time you and your peers engage in armchair analysis of ARod, you reveal much more about your own mental hangups than his. And that’s really tiresome.
torre absolutely should be back. his bullpen management may not be perfect but the good things he does far outweigh the bad. massaging the egos of a $200 payroll is no easy task and he does it near flawlessly. you rarely if ever here any players criticize him and that is no accident. while we were all busy throwing anyone and everyone under the bus he stayed calm and confident which is a big reason why there will be yankee games next week.
but pete, you say “The Yankees tried inexperienced managers back in the early 1990s – Buck Showalter, Bucky Dent and Stump Merrill. How did they work out?” why no love for buck? I’m aware of his flaws as a control freak but to lump him in with the likes of stump is unfair. He’s the one that got the ball rolling on the 13 straight years in the post season after all.
and by the way, love the blog if not always the commenters. went to school with mark hale from kindergarten through high school and he tells me your a good guy, a endorsement which to me is as good as it gets. keep up the good work, and I hope we don’t lose you to a bigger paper and a different beat anytime soon.
John
As much as I want Girardi, I think Torre deserves one more year and that about it. This team was down and in the dumps before making an improbable comeback. So u might as well, give him at least a one year extension.
most torre haters, would not have the sense to even start arod in every possible game. sheesh.
E-Roc -
There’s managerial positions to be decided in the offseason and Girardi may not hang around waiting for Torre’s retirement. The Yankees will need to make a decision on Torre within days after the Yankees last game whenever that turns out to be.
Ralph Houk managed the Yankees while they won World Series in 1961 and 1062. He managed them while they won the AL in 1963. He then managed them from 1967 to 1973… with no titles.
Joe is a lot like Houk. He rides the success from early in his Yankee tenure for a long time. And if the Yankees don’t win the World Series this year, Torre will tie Houk for consecutive years as Yankees manager without a title. Seven.
At the end of the 1960 season, the Yankees forced Casey Stengel to retire. It was time.
Well, for Joe Torre? It’s time.
If they win the World Series, he should retire on the high note. If they lose, he should retire to avoid being the sole owner of the record for a NY Manager going consecutive years without a title.
Do us all a favor, Joe. Retire.
As for rewarding him, Pete? I thought that is what he was paid $7 million for? And since when should we be rewarding a manager if he doesn’t win rings? We are talking about the NY Yankees here. The goal, every year, is to win the Series. Not the Division, not get to the playoffs, not win the pennant. Win the World Series. So, exactly what should the Yankees reward him for? Succeeding last century? Or almost succeeding?
Joe deserves a 2 year deal. Please spare me the talk about how great Tony LaRussa is. He couldn’t keep a White Sox team winning in the 1980s after they won by 20 games in 1983 AND picked up Tom Seaver. He won only one championship with with the Steroid-in-the-Butt Brothers in the 1980s that suffered two huge upsets in 1988 and 1990. He eventually won after 12 years in St Louis. Once. He feels it is necessary to do stupid things like bat your pitcher 8th.
Torre does have limitations in over using a few relievers. But he knows how to deal with the huge pressures on managing the Yankees media, ownership, and fan circus. His players respect him, the ones who don’t are racist slugs like Gary Sheffield. When Torre leaves, his replacement will have huge shoes to fill.
“Your comparing Torre to Mo and Posada is ridiculous and at the height of your Torre Is God crusade.”
Suggesting that you retain key components of your success is smart business. Without Torre keeping these players from losing their focus, there is no post season this year.
1. If win totals or trips to the post season count as indicators of managerial success, Tony LaRussa is certainly a very successful manager. Saying that he would continue to be just as successful with the Yankees, however, assumes all other things are equal. With the Yankees, that’s just not true. Besides, if you use win totals or post season success as an indicator of a manager’s value, a fair and balanced person would have to concede that Torre is one of the most successful managers too – - it wouldn’t prove that LaRussa is better or the key to greater post season success.
2. Some suggest that Torre only wins because he has a bigger budget than other managers and thus more talent to work with. But why wouldn’t that supposed advantage apply to LaRussa or anyone else who replaces Torre as Yankee skipper? Assuming the same checkbook and willingness to spend, how could you separate out LaRussa’s unique contribution?
As for Torre being lucky to have so much talent, a fair minded person would have to concede that LaRussa has the most dangerous hitter in MLB in Pujols, and a few other stars in St. Louis, to put it mildly. His Oakland teams were All Star teams too, if you don’t count the rampant juice abuse of Jason and Jeremy, McGwire and Canseco among others. (Interesting sidelight on LaRussa as is his DUI arrest).
Carping about Torre’s use of the bullpen is the favorite tactic of the Torre haters and it’s b.s. Starting pitching wins in the post season and the Yankees have had insufficient starting pitching to win it all. Let’s see… there was Kevin Brown, a tired, has-been Randy Johnson, Jared Wright, Javy Vasquez and Al Leiter, just to name a few. Letting Pettitte go was a big mistake too. There were plenty more mistakes when it came to setting up the pitching staff and the bullpen over the last few years. That’s on Steinbrenner and Cash – - not Torre.
3. I point out that there is always an opposing team on the field in the playoffs. They usually win a lot of games to get there. They usually have a few talented players too and I hear that the opposing team usually plays to win especially in the post season. So, that figures into any reasonable analysis of Torre’s (or LaRussa’s) post season success – - or lack of success – - too.
Sometimes, however, the opposing team doesn’t play to win. Last year I seem to recall Detroit having an historic meltdown just in time for the Cards, who had an embarrassing regular season record, to skate past to win it all. The Detroit meltdown is hardly an example of LaRussa’s genius at work. Luck and who’s hot at the right time are always huge factors in post season success.
4. Torre has to handle the NY Media and Steinbrenner does it well. LaRussa the Lawyer is an arrogant, condescending, testy SOB who does not and would not handle media or George any way near as well as Torre. None of the Torre haters gives him any credit for that and without that ability, there are no WS or playoff appearances in the Bronx.
With Big Stein, you get the checkbook but also the rest of the horror show of being second guessed out loud on the back page, and being undermined by a back-channel of coaches and others in Tampa. Thank god it looks like Cashman ended that for now. Why Torre put up with it is for him to say. LaRussa never would or could do it as successfully, shielding his players from George and managing the press, each a key to success in NYC.
Torre is as good or better than anyone else out there and is uniquely qualified to be retained as the Yankees’ manager.
Nick–I wish Girardi would wait it out, lol.
Anyway, Torre deserves at least one year, IMO. I think whether he comes back or not depends on where the Yankees finish in October.
It’s nice to see Shelley Duncan getting some playing time.
Hopefully, the bullpen spots will be clear cut for Torre to make the right decisions.
Ashley,
The only haters are the Torre defenders, who inexplicably feel compelled to deny others the right to speak their minds.
If the Yankees are eliminated in the first round yet again, Torre deserve one more year?
You can’t be a Yankee fan.
It’s nice to see that Joe Torre has been able to unite a group of the Yankee fan base on at least one issue. He should leave.
Most cite bullpen management as the reason he should be gone. But that’s where the uniting ends.
As I read through the comments of those that want Torre fired, that’s the only thing you agree on. In the past few weeks, some have wanted Joba to pitch 2, some wanted him to pitch one and some wanted him saved for tomorrow. Some saw Ohlendorff as the guy who had to pitch the 7th one night while others wanted Britton for the 7th. Some asked why Veras would even be looked at for a postseason spot even after successfully pitching scoreless innings. The crowd who wanted Farnsworth DFA’ed are still waiting for him to implode even after a few good showings.
Managing relief pitching is the toughest part of being a manager. With few exceptions,most managers could put all the names of the guys in pen into a hat and choose pitchers that way. Most relief pitchers are relief pitchers for the fact that they aren’t good enough to be starters or closers. Managers ride the hot horse and burn them out because they are interchangable. There are very few elite middle relievers in this league and even those who show flashes of brilliance show those flashes to be fleeting.
It’s nice to see that Joe Torre has been able to unite a group of the Yankee fan base on at least one issue. He should leave.
Most cite bullpen management as the reason he should be gone. But that’s where the uniting ends.
As I read through the comments of those that want Torre fired, that’s the only thing you agree on. In the past few weeks, some have wanted Joba to pitch 2, some wanted him to pitch one and some wanted him saved for tomorrow. Some saw Ohlendorff as the guy who had to pitch the 7th one night while others wanted Britton for the 7th. Some asked why Veras would even be looked at for a postseason spot even after successfully pitching scoreless innings. The crowd who wanted Farnsworth DFA’ed are still waiting for him to implode even after a few good showings.
Managing relief pitching is the toughest part of being a manager. With few exceptions,most managers could put all the names of the guys in pen into a hat and choose pitchers that way. Most relief pitchers are relief pitchers for the fact that they aren’t good enough to be starters or closers. Managers ride the hot horse and burn them out because they are interchangable. There are very few elite middle relievers in this league and even those who show flashes of brilliance show those flashes to be fleeting.
Outside the Lines did a nice piece on Native Americans, specifically Joba Chamberlain & Jacob Ellsbury.
Bullpen spots:
Bruney and Britton are out. Villone stays because he’s the lone lefthander. One of Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Veras, and Edwar Ramirez for the remaining spot.
Does anyone like Bruce Froeming?
I say let’s see if we get past the first round. A contract shouldn’t just be a reward but also a tool for continuation. Yes, we made the playoffs but you can’t blame the bad start on just luck or Pavano.
Gerardi would be a disaster and Donny needs some experience.
Good points on the Mets. They have not jelled at all and are more like a stew than a soufflé! I love Willie, but give me a f@*kin’ break!
Pat -
Most setup men or bridge guys to a team’s closer are for the most part on a “what have you done for me lately” basis. Seldom does a team see a Mendoza/Nelson/Stanton tandem for a lengthy period of time.
No matter what happens the Torre Era needs to end.
JV
That was my point. Interchangable parts so you just ride the hot horse until that one cools off.
I dont know if anyone is still having the “Fire Joe Torre” argument but let me throw in my two cents. Torre isnt a great in-game manager by any means but he does provide two things. He manages a clubhouse full of egos and gets players’ respect and he inspires loyalty in just about every player he has ever managed. The fact that he blew out relievers arms like Tanyon Sturtze and Paul Quantrill and those guys would still run through a wall for him shows you how loyal guys are to him. Torre is important in acquiring free agents and keeping the players we have so without those players we wouldnt even be in position to make the playoffs. Everybody knows that Pettitte and Clemens never would have come back to the Yanks if anybody other than Torre were the manager.
So if I had to choose between losing Posada, Mo and A-Rod and missing the playoffs w/o Torre or keeping all those guys, getting upgrades from free agency and taking the chance of losing in the playoffs with Torre’s poor game management, I will take the latter every time because at least we will have a chance by actually making the playoffs.
I remember reading a quote from Terry Francona recently (who, by the way, is referred to as “Fran-coma” by some in Boston for his – guess what – bullpen management). I can’t remember the exact words, but it was to the effect that he doesn’t try to tell a plumber or doctor what to do or how to practice, based on reading a couple of paragraphs in a how-to book or on the Internet. Baseball does look easy on TV – especially once the game is over.
soprt of a newbie here, but i was curious about what was meant that Girardi has a personality that wouldn’t play well on YES? I actually like him a lot- insightful, modest, humble, and speaks about small, key points others at YES don’t pick up on.
I hope Joe gets an open ended contract for as long as he wants to manage, and with a clause that will allow him to suggest his successor. No Yankee manager has done as good a job as Joe. He is beloved by his team – that’s a major criteria. And, he has chosen Jorge Posada as the Manager for Today – an absolutely correct choice.
whoa, the only non yankee fan is you and all the others that talk crap about their own team. How the heck can you like your own team if all you do is complain about them.
I think you are a red sox fan!!
Joan in Cheshire, i totally agree. I couldnt have said it better my self. Nicely put!!
Ashley,
You are confusing dissent with complaining.
As an American who has been socialized with the values that have made this country great, I weep for you.
Whoa, youre a waste of time.
“No Yankee manager has done as good a job as Joe.”
Really?
How about Joe McCarthy? 7 Championships.
How about Casey Stengel? 7 Championships.
Ashley,
That is soooooooo weak.
Joe Torre = Manager of the Year.
The Torre haters are just a bunch of pathetic blowhards who have latched onto a single organizing principle for their explanation of why the Yankees have not won 12 World Series titles in a row – Torre sucks. Baseball, the game of failure, where even hall-of-famers fail more often than they succeed, offers an endless supply of situations that people can cherrypick to prove any point they want.
Judging managers is very difficult, because obviously it is the players that really make the difference. Casey Stengel is the perfect example. Based on his Yankee record, he could be considered the greatest manager of all time. But before he managed the Yankees, he managed two teams, for a total of 9 years, and never finished higher than 5th place, out of 8, and ususally lower. After his stint with the Yankees he managed three and a half years with the Mets and accumulated a winning percentage of .302 – perhaps the worst performance ever. Was Casey a horrible manager, a great manager, then a horrible manager once again?
Luis Gonzales, an excellent hitter, gets the narrow part of his bat on a Rivera cutter and lobs it into short center, and its Torre’s fault, for having the games best closer in history closing the last game of the Series. These people are so ridiculous it is funny.
Joe Torre can manage my team for as long as he likes.
Your team isn’t planning on winning many rings, I take it, Tano?
With the exception of Hauk, can anyone name a Yankee manager that went for 6 years consecutively without winning a ring? Oh, yeah… Joe Torre.
Stengel was forced to retire after two years without a ring (and whether Stengel was a good or a bad manager, as long as the Yankees won, he got to keep his job. When they didn’t, he was let go). McCarthy got three years. Showalter got 4. If we applied the same criteria to Joe Torre, he would have been let go after 2002 or 2003 or 2004. Instead, here it is 2007… and now we get to listen to him make comments about it being unfair to be graded by wins and losses, or how the playoffs are all about the team that gets lucky.
Must have been a heck of a lucky Yankees team back from ’49 – ’53.
“… who[m] Torre needlessly embarassed…”
“Does anyone like Bruce Froeming?”
lol. one of the best things about this past weekend is the end of that douchbag’s career…