Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 05, 2007 
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The Yankees wore out C.C. Sabathia last night. But the Indians did much worse damage to Chien-Ming Wang.
Hey, Doug Mientkiewicz, look out for that cameraman! YES has some explaining to do, I suspect.
If it’s Game 2, it must be Andy Pettitte. This notebook also has updates on the Game 4 starter, Roger Clemens, Joba Chamberlain, Johnny Damon, LeBron James, Big Stein and the Big G.
Big game Pettitte tonight should be fun. I plan on staying awake for this one, or at least try. Go Yankees!
The Yankees should give Shelley a start at first and Giambi at DH. Matsui is struggling and having your knee drained before a series doesn’t help matters. He needs more rest.
Why would YES hire Leslie Nielsen as a camerman, didn’t they see what he did to Pia Zadora???
Torre has now lost 11 of his last 14 playoff games. The clock is ticking.
I have mixed feeling about this camera guy. I used to work as a news reporter and the first time I was caught in one of those big-market TV camera scrums was pretty scary, these guys will run right over you to get their shot. On the other hand its the way things are done and there is a method to the madness. I wonder what “orders” the camera man failed to obey which was the stated grounds for dismissal.
Anybody got those stats on Pettitte’s record following a Yankee loss yet?
I love this site so I’ve gotta ask a question and plug my own stuff.
Down 7-3….Ross Ohlendorf?
We examine: http://eastwindupchronicle.com/?p=259
Lineup changes for the betterment of tonight’s game should be Matsui on the bench, Molina behind the plate, and Jorge as DH.
Joba and Mo armed and ready and should bode well later in the game.
The Yankees will give a reality check to Cleveland.
Torre did put Ohlendorf in a tough spot. A spot which I don’t think he has experienced at the MLB level.
Gammons rags on LeBron James for wearing a Yankee hat ? Ha ! ….that coming from a hypocrite that gives props to Cleveland when the whole world knows he’s the Assistant GM of “his” Red Sux. Full of himself + gin & tonic.
Torre took Minky out of the game because he wanted to get something “started”. Why didn’t he start by sitting Matsui down? Is he blind or stupid? Giambi is his guy off the bench, brilliant Joe, leave Matsui in there as the DH even though he is not only not hitting but he is not working the count either. How long will it take?
Very disappointing game – the Wanger can’t take all the blame – where the heck was the offense? Anyway, let’s get over it now and forget it. I agree with many others that Matsui needs to sit. He’s just not himself and it’s embarrassing to him and the team. With Pettite on the mound, the odds are the Yanks will take the 2nd game and a split is do-able coming back to the Stadium on Sunday. The Indians will probably be a little cocky tonight and that spells trouble especially for guys who’ve never been to post season – so I say GO YANKEES!
1. wang did not do the job
2. why didnt jeter bunt over the runners ?
3. what was ohlkendorf doing in the game ?
4, there should have been more right handed batters in this game ( duncan at dh to start the game and betemit at first )
those are my thoughts on last nights game .
The camera man who collided with Mientkiewicz must be related to the golf cart driver who ran over Juan Rivera.
What do you think of this extension for A-Rod:
4 years @ $41M/yr. = $164M for 2011-15 + $81M for 2008-11 ($27M/yr.) = $245M/ average yearly salary $35M through 2015/ age 40.
The Yanks still pay only whatever they pay for him 2008-11.
I doubt anyone offers him 7 years $245M. including the Mets who have Wright at 3B, Reyes at SS, and need to get a #2 starter and probably 3 new veteran relievers. How they paying for all that when they have to give A-Rod $35M/yr?
If he goes to San Francisco or the Dodgers, he can kiss reaching a World Series goodbye because S.F. is the dreg of the N.L. West, L.A. the also-ran. Arizona, Colorado, and San Diego are better than them.
Does he really want to go to the Angels and battle Oakland, Seattle, Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota, Chicago, Toronto, and the Yanks? Tampa Bay and Kansas City played alot better than their 2007 record indicated. The only bonafide sadsack A.L. teams are Baltimore and Texas.
I doubt he’ll want to go to the Red Sox and battle the Yankees 18 games a year plus 3 trips to Yankee Stadium (the 3 series at Fenway aren’t entirely home) and as many as 3-4 A.L.C.S. vs. the Yanks? Who’s in their rotation after Beckett and Matsuzaka in 2008? Schilling is probably signing elsewhere. Wakefield might retire or sign elsewhere, he’s old and doubtful to equal or better his 2007. Bucholz is no lock to be long-term good. Even Matsuzaka isn’t all that.
The guy finished 14-12 this year -will he better that with a full year’s book on him? He better be better. 2008 Boston has 2006 Boston written all over them esp. if Manny barks for a trade and/ or Lowell signs elsewhere.
Stick with a team who’s nucleus for future success looks like Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, and Cabrera with Captain Jeter and Vice-Captain (make it a new position, sounds cooler than co-captain
Posada leading the way.
There’s more to life than money, A-Rod. Tell that to your agent Scott Boras. You wanna risk signing with the Angels and the Yanks sign Johann Santana and Mark Texiera for 2009?
The Yanks do that, you’re not winning jack with the Angels.
You want to be negated by the Yanks signing Miguel Cabrera for 3B when he’s a free agent after 2010? You think Vlad isn’t screaming for a renegoitated contract if you get your payday and disrupting the team until he gets it, think again. He already has a two-cent head. Is Kotchman a lock to be a long-term solid hitter? Seattle won 88 games this year
-what if they get better? You’ll look like a chump in an Angels uniform while the team you started with makes the postseason and does so without you again, years later.
Good points Chris. ALso why was Hughes in the game? Thy waste him?
Nice job by the non-ace Wang last night. Way to get the playoffs off to a great start. If the Yankees start swinging early in the count and not working Carmona tonight they will be heading back to NY down 0-2.
Just stop the A-Rod contract talk!!
It’s playoff time! Worry about that after the series and the ticker tape parade.
Get a clue already.
Relax. The goal was to get a split from their aces and pound 3-4 at home. No time to panic.
I think last night and the playoffs so far has proved that Joba is definately becoming a starter.
A #1 starter just has way more value than a closer.
Sheffield just underwent shoulder surgery you still want him back for another 2 years?
IMO, couple things that bothered me about the way this game was managed.
1. I dont care what Jeter’s numbers are against CC in his career, he needs to set the table up there with Abreu, ARod, and Posada up behind him.
2. Why was Posada given the green light at 3-0, and Matsui at 2-0? Hideki hasnt gotten a hit in 3 weeks, and he’s going to swing at a 2-0 pitch when the pitcher cant throw a strike? They swung themselves out of a big inning.
3. If Hughes is available to pitch in this game, then he needed to come into the game to start the 5th, not to mop up in the late innings. You need to swap the roles of Ohlendorf and Hughes here, and let Hughes come in to give you innings and give you the best chance to keep the game at 4-3.
and i’m not all out of sorts about the yankees losing game 1. Andy is on the mound this afternoon, and we have to hope he comes up big here, which i have confidence in him to do so.
what i am concerned about was the way Torre managed his bullpen (what a shock); the fact that once again, in a big playoff spot the bats came up cold; and that everyone is just throwing out there that the team is a collective 5-0 after losing game 1 in these series since 1995, like its just a given they’ll win the series now.
kd agree 100%. Jeter always bunts in that situation, and now he didn’t!! Would have been second and third one out with the big guns up.
We will come back, this series is going 4 and we will win it at home!!!
Perhaps Minky the ball-snatcher is just clumsy? ever think of that? I suppose a working class camera man is going to have to pay for a millionare tripping over him?
Sometimes, u just need to give credit to the opposing for making the least mistakes. The Indians made plays in the field to prevent hits and runs from scoring. Yeah, the Indians capitalized the Yankees mistakes, that’s why they lead the series. “Big Game” Pettitte will be on the mound. Operation “Shutdown” will commence and I’ll be awake to watch.
Too many squandered chances in the early innings when the Yankees had Sabathia on the ropes. Much to learn from the game.
I see Arod is continuing his post season domination of pitchers. I guess a sweep is out of the equation unless of course the Indians sweep the Yanks.
This just in … still hordes of Bahhstin fans overly concerned what the Yankees are doing, just as though the Angels don’t even exist.
Yankee fans appreciate the envy, jealousy and admiration of their team. Yes, Bahhstin, keep it up. Flattery is nice.
Pete, good to see that you only have the b@lls to bag on A-Rod in the blog and not in your actual article. I hope you and the other NY Media seize the opportunity to give him credit for a fantastic regular season, without which, the Yankees are not even IN the playoffs, AND for how well he is going to do tonight.
The only thing I can think of is that Torre puts very little stock into Game 1. By using the B-Team out of the bullpen after Wang was ineffective, he was almost saying, “This game isn’t as important as the next 4 so why use all my best bullets to win Game 1.”
On the other hand, Wedge sent out his two best relievers to protect a 6 run lead. I think that will affect them tonight and into the rest of the series as Perez and Betancourt get used again and again.
I am a little surprised that Torre went to Ohlendorf instead of Hughes. I guess he thought that was a good a time as any to get these guys into a game.
BTW, all this critism of Torre…players still have to play. Let’s face it. Jeter, Posada and Matsui were terrible last night. Posada especially. With bases loaded and 1 out, a 3-0 count, and a pitcher who is on the ropes. You have to do some damage there.
Not a well played game by any stretch, but I think some anger has to be put on the appropriate players and not just the usual scapegoats, namely Torre.
Wow you couldn’t be more stupid. Go listen to the interview with him. THe guy fell on him. He also said he felt horrible, that he heard the camera guy was fired!
Now go crawl back in the hole you just came out of.
Let’s just wait until tonight. As we’ve said, our record is much better when we drop the first game. We have them right where we want them!
Besides, I just saw a commercial starring a whole bunch of squirrels. We’re in good shape. Don’t worry. Be happy!
Lori-exactly, I would trade all the Yankees Game 1 wins over the past few years for an actual series win.
Yeah if we was going to waste Hughes when the game was way out of hand, why didn’t he use him to start the 5th and it was clear as day that Wang didn’t have it and wouldn’t get it right.
Yes, that should be any playoff teams outlook to lose the 1′st game because in the past we have done well thereafter. I don’t care what team you are, you don’t want to lose the 1′st game and go in the hole.
KD – You are right on.
Can we all agree that at the very least we need a different DH tonight?
Anyone have suggestions on lineups tonight? Here are some options:
Option 1:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Posada
Giambi (dh)
Duncan (1B)
Cano
Cabrera
Option 2:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Posada
Giambi (1b)
Duncan (DH)
Cano
Cabrera
Option 3:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Posada
Giambi (dh)
Betemit (1B)
Cano
Cabrera
Option 4:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Posada
Giambi (dh)
Minky(1B)
Cano
Cabrera
Option 5:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Posada
Duncan (dh)
Minky(1B)
Cano
Cabrera
To all my Yankee friends (lol) out there. Did you know that next week is Squirrel Awareness week? I am telling the truth! Perhaps that is a good omen for you.
I wonder what the plan is tonight if Andy starts off poorly now that Hughes is not available, who by the way I thought was on the team to provide long relief and to start and not clean-up. I wonder how well Pete thinks Mussina could have pitched in the same situation that Hughes faced last evening.
it’s very important to do things in the playoffs that you don’t do during the year. it fools the opposition. all year long wang on 4 days rest had a devastating sinker , but the indians would plan for that. it is much better to rest wang for three days longer than normal rest, get rid of his sinker and fool the indians with straight sinkers.
… and when a crucial situation comes up, it is much better to put in a pitcher who has only 6 innings of major league experience. this also confuses the opposition because no one else does this.
choosing to start wang on 7 days rest was almost as brilliant as teaching sheffield first base the week before the playoffs last year. i can’t wait for their next surprise.
Giambi…nobody wants to lose any playoff games but it’s going to happen, law of averages being what they are.
Look, you’d always like to play with a lead, you’d always like to come out and score 7 runs in the first and you’d always like to win Game 1. Problem is, it’s not always going to happen.
I think if you look over the history of baseball, you’ll find plenty of series winners who lost game 1. It’s not the end of the world if you lose it, just like you’re not planning the ticket tape parade when you win it.
You probably have a better chance at getting a liver transplant than having Joe replace Matsui as the DH.
Squirrel Awareness week?
for real? who isn’t aware of squirrels?
The Yankees should load their lineup with righties, so hopefully, Duncan will get the start. He should be given more playing time.
randy…Torre thinks Game 2 is the most important game of the series, thus starting Pettitte tonight. Who would you have started in Game 1, if you knew Pettitte was going to go game 2?
Clemenes with the gimpy hamstring, Mussina with the gimpy brain, or Wang with his 19 wins and 3.70 ERA. I think the choice is clear.
And if you did start Pettitte in Game 1, Wang would have to start Game 2 and then he would have 8 days rest.
I wasn’t the umpire and I can’t change calls, but did anyone else notice that ball hit Grady Sizemore in the bottom of the 1st? Watching the replays, it looked like the ball never touched him. I never did see where the ball got him.
Maybe there is something to this squirrel thing. I always see squirrels when I go running and yesterday the only one I saw was road kill. I thought to myself, the Yanks might be in for a long night and laughed at myself for being so silly. But now.. Also, YES shows the Geico squirrel commercial almost as much as Jeter’s Ford commercials or Giuseppe Franco but we are not playing on YES this week.
So maybe there is something to this squirrel thing or maybe I’d rather think about squirrels than how bad the Yanks played last night. Either way, I hope the groundskeepers at Yankee Stadium are tossing peanuts and sunflower seeds all around the bullpens to attract a few squirrels. It can’t hurt unless someone gets bit.
It is true!! I decided to google it.
http://www.scarysquirrel.org/s.....index.html
the Loss was rough… but Cleveland used Betancourt and Perez for 2, in a blow-out.
Advantage: Yankees bullpen in Game 2.
ANd it only counted once! We go out tonight and exact revenge!! Andy will pitch a gem.
How many days of rest was Wang given, before game 1?
E-ROC, Wang had seven days of rest, he last pitched on Wednesday of last week, the night that the Yankees clinched a playoff berth. He will be much sharper next time. I just wonder that if the need arose, would Torre be gutsy enough to start Wang in Game 4 on three days rest?
If it is to clinch I would.
J Dawg…I definately think that is the plan. Wang at home, where he’s so much better. I think that’s why you saw Hughes last night. Originally it might have been Mussina to startGame 4 with Hughes out of the pen. But now I think it’ll be Wang, with Mussina out of the pen if Wang doesn’t have anything.
J-Dawg–Veintisiete en ’07–There has been speculation on the Yankees website that Torre might actually bring Wang back on short rest for Game 4. That would be a welcomed sight. It isn’t much, but it’s something:
Working on seven days’ rest, the 27-year-old right-hander allowed eight runs and nine hits in a rocky 4 2/3-inning start. Wang walked four and struck out two, allowing a pair of home runs and later lamenting sinkers that didn’t sink and sliders that flopped flat.
“I feel today wasn’t good,” Wang said. “Maybe I worked too quick.”
Yankees manager Joe Torre had entertained the idea of bringing Wang back on short rest to pitch what could be a pivotal Game 4, and he insisted that he had not been dissuaded. But certainly, in any grand plan, the Yankees expected a much better performance.
“I’m not afraid of Wang pitching against Cleveland again,” Torre said. “He didn’t pitch his game tonight. You know, you win 19 games in this league, you certainly earn it. I’m certainly not going to shy away from him pitching again.”
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
The rest thing is a bunch of BS. He stunk. plain and simple. No other analysis is needed.
He has struggled on the road all year, even when he was on regular rest. He has also struggled on the road in these “Ace vs. Ace” matchups.
You don’t blow up the lineup over one game. They only have to make one lineup change and that’s Giambi at DH for Matsui. Matsui is hitting .160 the last month. Clearly, his knee is an issue. So, put in the Big G at DH and go from there.
Bottom line, you have to pitch in the post-season. They aren’t going to hammer top flight pitching in the post-season. No team does on a consistent basis.
You have to pitch. Wang didn’t last night and Pettitte has to tonight. If Pettitte gives them a big start, they will win.
From the first pitch of the game last night, Wang was awful. He is what he is. A decent pitcher, not an ace.
In fact, you can make a pretty good argument he’s not in the Top Ten of #1 starters in the league.
Take this list: Bedard, Halliday, Beckett, Kazmir, Santana, Verlander, Sabathia, Haren, Lackey and King Felix and ask yourself HONESTLY, if Wang is better than any of those pitchers? He isn’t.
If any of those guys had an offense that scored 968 runs in a season, they win 19 games.
He’s a good #2 or #3 starter. That’s it and that’s all he will ever be because he stuff and style of pitching is too limited to gain elite status.
Its why Joba Chamberlain will be in the rotation next year. He has #1 stuff. Can’t waste it in the bullpen.
The only reason that I wonder is because we know how conservative that Torre is with pitchers. He didn’t start Wang in last year’s Game 4 on three days rest. The Yankees were backed into a corner, and he chose Jaret Wright. I could be wrong here, but I think that the last Yankee pitcher to start on three days rest was Randy Johnson in July of ’05. If it was up to me(it’s not), I would pitch Wang on three days rest as well.
Wang is still a starter on this team and he has to be used. Sure he’s not as good as all the ‘Aces’ you mention but who thinks that he his.
Torre’s got 5 options in his starting staff to pitch Game 1. Pettitte he wants in Game 2 because he thinks it’s a more important game. So that leaves 4 others. 1 is 44 years old with a bum hamstring, another is walking the line between 3 and 4 starter, 1 has 72 major league innings in him and the other is a 19 game winner with a lower ERA than all of them. Who can you pitch?
Wang wasn’t great last night and he wasn’t good most of the 2nd half but he was still better than the other opitons.
If Joe Torre uses Wang in Game 4, I sincerely hope its his last move as Yankee manager.
That would be a huge mistake. The venue isn’t the problem with Wang. Its stuff. He hasn’t pitched well most of the second half of the season. Everything has been up in the zone and, as Guidry said last night, he has no idea what to do when things don’t go well.
Maybe its just me but, I don’t want a pitcher starting in the post-season who has “no idea what to do when things aren’t going well”. When the pitching coach says that, you don’t use a guy on short rest in a big game.
At some point, Torre has to have a clue on handling a pitching staff. Its been YEARS since he has handled the staff in a logical way.
Even last night was a mystery. After Wang walks the leadoff guy in the 5th, he has to be out of the game. You go to Hughes, take your shot, and see what happens. Instead, he stays with Wang too long, then goes to Ohlendorf, which made no sense.
Now, all this “Wang in Game 4″ talk? Its nonsense. Just stick with Moose, and have Hughes ready to back him up. Pettitte would be on full rest for a possible Game 5.
The Yankees are 3-11 in their last 14 post-season games. How about worrying about Game 2, and not worrying about Wang or his feelings? Its the damn playoffs, who cares how he feels?
He stunk last night and no manager worth his salt should be running a guy out there who stunk in Game 1 on short rest.
A quick note, Fausto Carmona is pitching on eight days rest. Carmona is also someone who throws sinkers and gets many ground balls. I would look for him to be flat and out of rhythm. As I said earlier, this is the perfect chance for A-Rod to do something. He homered against Carmona the last time that they crossed paths, and Carmona will be shaky and probably off of his game due to nerves and too much rest. He could be a candidate to be a pitcher who leaves too many pitches up in the zone, just like Wang last night.
Wang’s sinker might work much better on short rest. He has blown up before when given extra days of rest. Hopefully, that opportunity to pitch in Game 4. But right now, it’s Pettitte’s time to shine. Go Yankees.
No question, he was stuck using Wang last night. If Clemens was healthy and pitching well, you could make an argument that Clemens and Pettitte (pick the order) could start Games 1 and 2, with Wang going in Game 3.
Torre didn’t have that option because of Clemens injury so, he did the only thing he could do in the situation.
Now, he has options. Pettitte can pitch a Game 5 and he has Mussina/Hughes for Game 4. No need to start Wang again in this series. In fact, it would be idiotic if he did.
You can’t get caught up in names or what’s “fair” or any of that other nonsense. This is a man who put the best player in baseball in the 8th slot in the batting order in the biggest game of the year last year because he was “stuggling”.
How in the world can he justify using Wang again in this series? It would make zero sense.
Hopefully, he comes to his senses. More importantly, I hope there IS a Game 4.
Yeah, Mussina in a big spot…that’s exactly what I want as a Yankee fan. Have you seen him over the past season? Have you noticed all the leads he has given up in the post-season last few years.
Sure if the Yankees are up 2-1 in the series, then I’ll take my chances with Mussina. If it’s an elimination game, you might as well count the Yankees as eliminated with a Mussina start. IMHO
Keep an eye on Pete. If Wang pitches in Game Four it will be A-Rod’s fault.
Take a deep breath Yank fans.
The series is just starting.
You get a split in Cleveland against two great SP’s and than pound Westbrook and Byrd.
That’s what they are going to do.
The more I think about this game last night, the clearer it is that Torre really has no idea what he’s doing. He made so many asinine mistakes that it almost makes me hope the yankees get knocked out in the first round just so this clown will be fired already. I’d prefer they win the world series and he retire gracefully, but if he manages any more games the way he managed this one, they’ll be lucky to even manage one win in this series.
1. He left Wang in way too long. Not really a surprise, because Torre never has any idea when to pull the starting pitcher. It was obvious from the first pitch of the game that Wang was going to be in for a looooong night. He couldn’t put hitters away and couldn’t keep the ball down the entire night. It’s not like he was pitching well and then lost it all of a sudden, he was pitching horribly to basically every batter, struggling to get outs, and Torre just left him in. Once the yankees pulled back to within one and Wang walked the leadoff hitter, that should have been it. Instead, Wang gives up a homerun, negating all the work the offense had done, and Torre STILL leaves him in. Next hitter gets a double. Time to take him out? Nope, Torre decides to leave him in to give up yet another hit for no rational reason.
2. Pulling Wang for Ohlendorf. At 7 – 3, the game still wasn’t over. If the Indians relievers had to pitch with less than a 20 run lead, maybe they would have felt some sort of pressure to make pitches and made some mistakes. But when you’re up 9, 10, 11 to 3 it’s pretty easy to just pound the zone with strikes and not worry about missing your spot and giving up a solo shot. Why would Torre bring in the last guy on the bullpen roster in a critical spot in the game? Hughes should have come in at that point. I would have been okay with not bringing in Hughes in this game if you’re saving him in case Pettitte / Clemens / Mussina get into trouble. But Torre did bring in Hughes anyway, except it wasn’t when they were down 4, it’s when they were down 8. On top of that, he leaves him in there for 2 innings, so there’s no possible way he can pitch until Sunday at the earliest now. Smart move.
3. Pinch-hits Duncan for alphabet soup for “more offense”. If he wanted more offense, maybe he should have put Duncan in the lineup over Matsui. Matsui was 0-9 off Sabathia when Sabathia didn’t even know how to pitch, how did Torre think he’d fare on one knee against the guy now that he’s 10x better than the last time Matsui faced him? Even if the yankees had taken the lead, now you have Duncan at first, which is a major liability. Not a Giambi-sized liability, but a liability nonetheless.
4. Cano should have been batting 6th. There’s no reason for Cano to consistently be hitting in the 7th and 8th spots in this lineup. Cano has been one of the best hitters on the team in the second half, and he’s hitting well over 300 against lefties. On the other hand, I don’t think Matsui has had a hit since July, and he’s looked absolutely terrible at the plate for over a month.
This game reminded me of 2005 game 5 when Matsui singlehandedly left a small village on the basepaths. You people want to trade Damon and put Matsui in left… why? Damon is more valuable as the leadoff hitter, and he’s vastly superior defensively. I’m not saying we should trade Matsui, but I think Damon is far more valuable then Matsui is.
Overall, this was an absolutely horribly managed game. I have a lot of faith in Pettitte going tonight, but we’d better hope he gets the job done, or it’s going to be a long offseason.
SJ44 -
Right on the mark on two points. Giambi has to be the DH, Matsui is hurt and they are not afraid to pitch to him. Plus, he should not be in the lineup against lefties – he steps in the bucket. I agree about Wang, Indians let the sinkers go by, and the home plate ump had a high zone, disaster for a sinker ball pitcher. If they make it to game 4, it should be Moose on a short leash. Last year vs Yanks, Leyland played the percentages and went with Robertson in game one, got pounded, but the rest of the match ups were even to favorable. That looks to be the case this year for the Yanks but it all rides on Pettitte today..
Can we worry about Game 2 before we worry about Game 4?
Who are you people?
Lou Pinella???
Forget Wang. With Joe, it’s baby steps. Let’s hope we see Giambi at DH tonite, and Matsui on the bench. We’ll have plenty of time to worry about Wang later. You know, some time around Game Four.
Wang was awful but I still have confidence in him. Hopefully he gets a few more starts here after they take care of biz today and games 3-4.
Good point re Cano. He should be hitting right behind Posada.
There is no way Mussina should face the Indians. He shouldn’t even be in the rotation. I would use Hughes before I use Mussina, even if it’s a clinching game. Pitching Wang in Game 4 does make sense, if it happens. Torre wouldn’t be doing it out of pity for Wang. He’d probably do it because most sinkerballers get better movement on their ball when they’re tired. Plus, Wang will be pitching at Yankee Stadium, where he has had some success.
I was asking about Game 4, because we have Andy Pettitte going tonight. Because Fausto Carmona is pitching on extended rest. The same Fausto Carmona who has never pitched in the playoffs. He’s never been under this kind of microscope. Carmona has never been on this kind of stage. Seems like the perfect time for the Yankee lineup to take advantage of a nervous kid. And if you don’t think that pressure gets to Carmona, then look at his lack of success closing last year. It was a disaster and just a small sampling of the kind of pressure that he will face tonight.
Honestly, if this series doesn’t get to a Game 4, then the Yankees are once again exposed for what they are. Offensive bullies who pound on lesser pitching during the regular season but can’t beat playoff quality arms.
Problem is I don’t believe that. Their pitching is as good as any of the playoff teams, their bullpen is as good as any of the playoff teams and their line-up is as good, if not better, than any of the playoff teams.
It’s just a head scratcher as to why they struggle once the playoffs start.
All this with the understanding of course that it’s just Game 1.
E-Roc…rock on…
J. Dawg…good points..
Matsui should do the right thing and make it easy for Torre by taking himself out of the lineup. This is not game #50 of the regular season when a player can work his way out of a slump or injury.
Is there a more perfunctory shot in television then the athletes walking off the bus–WHO CARES?! Its no the WWE, YES.
YES has been overdoing it for years and now its finally impacted the product ON THE FIELD with the Mink injury.
Inexcusable.
When, exactly has Wang had good movement on his sinker the second half of the year? He hasn’t had his good sinker for most of the second half of the year. Its been sliders and changeups in most of his starts.
He hasn’t had a good sinker since early August.
Its why he has struggled so much.
When pitchers lose their stuff late in the year, it doesn’t come back very often. Its a telltale sign they are tired.
His mechanics are also completely out of whack, another sign of being tired. Using him on short rest would be dumber than Torre leaving him in too long last night.
If there is a Game 4, there aren’t good options. However, using Wang on short rest would be the worst of the options. Taking a tired, out of sorts pitcher, and using him on short rest, makes no sense to me.
The fact is, Mike Mussina (whom I am no fan of) has pitched better than Wang in the last month. I’d go with a Moose/Hughes combo Game 4 and take my chances before I go with a short rested Wang.
It also underscores the big problem with this team…….its still all about pitching.
Next year, the pitching will be much better than this year. For now, there aren’t a lot of good options, aside from Pettitte, to choose from with this staff.
Once Chamberlain, Kennedy and (hopefully) a healthy Phil Hughes are in the rotation, it will make it much easier to win post-season games in the future.
There is a reason why this team is 3-11 in their last 14 post-season games. Its because their starting pitching has stunk in the post-season for years. With the influx of younger pitchers, and the organization shift back to being a pitching first organization, that’s changing. Just not fast enough to solve this years problems.
It will come out that the cameraman is a “Bawston” fan just trying to help out his team.(Ha Ha)
SJ you raise good points…I still think you aren’t giving Wang enough credit…especially his performances at Yankee Stadium this year.
Obviously it’s a difference of opinion, but I don’t want Mussina anywhere near a must win game and I would take Wang in heartbeat in a Game 4 in Yankee Stadium.
You are right about next year’s team…but it’s this year’s team that is down 1-0 in the series.
BTW, Pete posted a new thread.
Don’t kid yourself, Boston may well make a run at A-Rod. And if they add him to that line-up, watch out. It’s also addition by subtraction, leaving a canyon like void in the Yanks.
It also amuses me how you Yankee fans see the world through pin-striped glasses. The playoffs are a crap shoot, so anything can happen, but the Red Sox were simply the superior team this year, and promise to be superior again next year. No, Bucholz is no sure thing, but neither are Hughes and Chamberlain. Beckett is showing himself to be a much better ace than Wang. Dice-K will win at least 18 next year. And if you think Jaba is going to throw 98 MPH for 200 innings as a starter, think again. He WILL get injured.
If the Yankees loose A-Rod, they are in deep trouble in the division.
ohlendorf shouldnt even be on the roster .
SJ44
my only concern for joba next year is 200 plus innings with
repeated 100(radar gun) pitches,He’s going to wear out by
post season too.
Wang has a tired arm.If his stats suggest He doesn’t pitch
well on the road,why start him on the road?
I’m not worried about Joba’s arm wearing out. He has several other pitches that he throws. He also throws a curve, the slider, and there will even be some changeups. To say that he’ll be on the mound throwing 100 on every pitch is shortsighted.
Arod to Boston –
Deep trouble?
How about a $9mm shortstop who bats .236?
How about $14mm RF who doesn’t deliver?
How about a $20mm LF who doesn’t show up when his team needs him?
How about $50mm to bid on a .500 pitcher who couldn’t beat the Yankees, and the Orioles, and the D-Rays?
How about $8mm on Clement, $4mm on Pineiro, etc., etc. – and I could continue…
“Pinstriped glasses” you say – Boston fans are the height of hypocrisy. Your team had a great first 2 months and finished the remainer of the season between .520 and .550.
Good luck to your “sure thing” tonight against LAA.
sj44-
i think have a different take on wang then you do. first of all , the yankees could have elected to have him pitch on the last day of the season for 4-5 innings on three days rest. he would then have been ready for tonight’s game on 4 days rest. that’s how i would have done it. i’d have had pettitte start last night’s game on normal rest.
my reason for doing this is that wang needs to pitch on a regular basis for the sinker to be effective. i know you think he’s overly tired ,which if he was, would make my scenario pointless, but i don’t think his sinker lost it’s sink the second half is because he’s tired. i think it’s because he’s throwing too many other pitches. a sinker is a difficult pitch to throw. he should pound the strike zone with it so he has a feel for it. i think he’s simply lost his way as a pitcher. he’s great as a sinkerball pitcher. he is not great as a sometimes sinkerball pitcher who throws a lot of sliders and 4 seam fastballs.
my opinion is that wang needs to live and die with the sinker. wang did not always have the devastating sinker. it came in a week’s time after a grip and mechanical changes made by neil allen at triple a. sal fasano was the catcher at the time and said it was like night and day. i say go back to whatever those changes were and throw the unhittable sinkerball.
this new wang with lots of pitches is actually the old wang that was not projected to be anything special. why go back to that?
Mussina has looked great against weaker teams down the stretch. If it’s Hughes pitching Game 4, I wouldn’t mind. There is no way in hell I’d let Mussina face the Indians. That’s why I would rather have Wang pitching.
How is Boston the “superior team” when they lost the last 4 series to the Yankees, lost the season series, and only won the division by two games…..after having a 14 1/2 game lead.
Fact is, 4 of Boston’s 8 wins against the Yankees this year are against pitchers who aren’t even on the Yankees right now.
You are predicting an injury to Joba, yet Dice-K, a guy who has thrown more innings than Joba will throw in the next 10 years, will stay healthy? Show us your medical credentials, or soothsaying credentials, to back that up.
I don’t see that as “superior”. Then again, people have different definitions of “superior” than I do. Especially Red Sox fans.
Anyone else bummed about the 5:07 start time tonight? It’ll be the third inning before I even get home from work.
Didn’t Mussina also pitch well against the Indians in Cleveland?
I don’t think its accurate to say he only pitched well against bad teams. IIRC, he was awfully good in his start in Cleveland.
It is true that Moose pitched well against the Indians in Cleveland. I give him that. He might even out pitch Byrd or Westbrook. I still don’t trust. I would thrust Hughes into Game 4. Luckily for me, I don’t get paid the big bucks. Might as well focus on tonight’s game. Hopefully, Shelley plays. Start at first with Giambi DH. Matsui shouldn’t even be on the roster for this series.
the red sox decision to go with matsuzaka for the second game is a curious one because anyone who has followed the red sox the last month knows that matsuzaka was in danger of being taken out of the third spot in the rotation as late as the last ten days of the season. he had a 7.62 era for september. he was league average in his last two starts combined. they were nothing special.
so how did he go from possibly being dropped as the third starter to being given the second starter job and two possible starts woth the angels?
the boston braintrust will be living and dying with this decision. they will look very bad if it goes against them. the angels are first pitch swingers and matsuzaka throws first pitch strikes. it’ll get down to if they hit those first pitch strikes. if they don’t it’ll be an easy game for dice bb. if they do and get runners on base, they’ll drive matsuzaka crazy and knock him out of the game.
Hey Yankees fans…lets just focus and pull together for tonites game..a must win situation.Stop all the non-sense talk about A-rod,Joba,etc.
Go Andy..And lets hope the bats get going..
GO YANKEES
Harley
October 5th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Keep an eye on Pete. If Wang pitches in Game Four it will be A-Rod’s fault.
* I am sure Pete and the rest of the NY Media will agree *
randy l
October 5th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
the red sox decision to go with matsuzaka for the second game is a curious one because anyone who has followed the red sox the last month knows that matsuzaka was in danger of being taken out of the third spot in the rotation as late as the last ten days of the season.
————————-
Randy I, if you thought Dice K risked being pulled out of the rotation, then I say you weren’t paying attention.
Now, there was discussion about skipping a start and resting him when it was thought he had a fatigued arm. But he assured the sox that wasn’t the case.
If you did watch and pay attention to the sox in “the last ten days of the season”, then you’d know that his last outing was strong (last two actually, the 5 runs in the TB game is somewhat misleading b/c he left with 2 runners on base who both scored). Now, the box scores won’t reflect how reassuring his performances were to Francona, Theo etc., but if you watched those two games, then you would have seen that Dice K had better stuff and better differential b/w his pitches than he had for probably 2 plus months.
He still needs to pitch very, very well to get the job done tonight, but you need to cool it with the ‘Dice K almost lost his job’ bit, b/c it just isn’t true… sounds like wishful thinking actually.
Lets just focus on the fact that we have Andy on the mound tonight. We take care of business tonight and we take homefield advantage away… last night is over with.
dare I say that I hope Andy’s last start in Baltimore has absolutely nothing to do with the performance we’ll see tonite….I know he’s used to playoff pressure and all that, I can’t predict squat, but I just get so nervous, I can barely watch when things go arry, it’s too painful! I hope and pray (as I sit here with my rosary!) that Pettitte is on fire tonite! and for heaven’s sake, let Matsui keep bench warm, he can get that job done for sure!
Let me get this right: YES fires a cameraman for tripping a player, but MSG let’s it’s GM, President and coach stay on the job while sexually harassing employees. Oh, and Jimmy Boy Dolan doesn’t get reprimanded by the league for letting this stuff go on under his roof…oh, wait, that’s a Knick rant on a Yankee-oriented blog. Sorry.