What do you do about these two?
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- October
- 5
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Hideki Matsui has one hit in his last 14 at-bats and is 15 for 85 since Sept. 1. He has four home runs in 193 at-bats since Aug. 1.
Melky Cabrera is 2 for his last 28 over the last seven games. He has one extra-base hit since Sept. 12.
I think Matsui is more injured than he is letting on and needs to be benched. I’d use Jason Giambi as the DH and stick with Doug Mientkiewicz at first. Giambi’s glove should be hidden so he can’t play first.
As for Melky, he’s a kid and kids are inconsistent. He’s liable to go 3 for 4 and throw two guys out at the plate. At least he’s had a few RBI lately.
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Chad Jennings
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Josh Thomson
It’s pretty painful to watch Matsui at this point. If he was healthy and clicking on all cylinders, he comes through in the 5th. I really wish that he would sit down for a couple of days just to rest. He’s a gamer though, and he wants to be out there. At some point when you banged up and you’re not hitting, however, you’re hurting the team.
Matsui is definitley more injured than he’s letting on, but I don’t bench him for Giambi.
Shelley, maybe, but not Giambi.
Giambi’s not been right since coming off the DL.
I’m fine with Melky in the lineup, especially when he’s playing center field.
A-Rod had two walks last nights…sure, it’s not the best night anyone could ever have, but it’s not an 0-4. You’ve got to give him that.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Matsui and Mely are having wretched at-bats.
I hope Joe plays Giambi instead of Matsui tonight in the DH spot. I might not even mind seeing Duncan at 1B.
I also wouldn’t totally exclude the possibility of playing Damon in CF if Melky’s offensive woes continue. It’s not so much even that he’s not hitting as it is that he is having wretched at-bats, swinging at pitches way out of the strike zone, and popping up and/ot striking out as a consequence.
I was all for Duncan DHing last night, but then he wouldn’t have been able to replace Mientkewicz at first.
Cabrera…has to stay in the line-up for defense.
Matsui…I’m reminded of Livia Soprano when I make the face I’m making right now. If he were healthy, I’d say you have to stick with him.
But after last night and the way Giambi smoked the ball to RF, I think you have to slot him into the DH hole tonight.
Ok not much to debate here, melky needs to stay in the lineup, Matsui needs to sit a game. Here’s my lineup:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
A Rod 3B
Giambi DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Melky CF
Man K 1B
Righty tonight, so let Man K play. I agree Duncan should have started yesterday over Matsui. I would think even Joe would agree to that now.
I like Giambi hitting behind A. Rod, especially if Cleveland isn’t going to give A. Rod anything to hit. With Giambi’s eye, you have the ability to move the line along. However, irregardless of where Giambi hits, Posada has to do better.
If they are going to pitch around A. Rod, Posada becomes the key man in the line-up. His two stikeouts, one in the 1st and the huge one in the 5th really hurt the team. He HAS to do better.
Last few years, everyone complained that A. Rod was trying to do too much, this year he seems to be willing to pass the baton, person he’s passing it to has to be up to the job.
Switch giambi and cano and you are good to go.
like that line-up jeff
pete, im SHOCKED you didnt mention Arod and what should be done bout him…he was 0-2 last night!!!! think maybe joe should drop him in the order? maybe 8th?
Matsui needs to go this offseason. He messed up last year’s postseason and is already messing up this one.
The Yankees should put him on waivers like Boston put Manny Ramirez on waivers after 2003. 2003 Manny BURIES 2007 Matsui
who posted a weak 25 HR and 102 RBI because he was so streaky.
Seattle would claim Matsui in a heartbeat because:
1. They need a DH.
2. They’d love to have 3 of the 4 three Japanese M.L.B. stars (Ichiro, Jojihma, and Matsui – the fourth one being Matsuzaka).
Matsui is 33 going on 43. His days in LF are over. Damon is a better LF than him and there’s no room at DH with Giambi there. Even if the Yanks somehow/ some way got rid of Giambi, Matsui doesn’t have enough power to be a viable full-time DH or the BA and OBP like Moises Alou has posted to make up for the lack of power. If the Yanks got rid of Giambi, I’d rather sign Alou to be the DH for a year if the Mets didn’t want him back than make Matsui the DH.
Matsui is a broken down old man who’s finally feeling the effects of all those years playing every single game on Japanese artificial turf, the stress of being Japan’s #1 star, and all those years he never took a break in the field with the Yankees (2003-2006). It was a huge mistake extending him through 2009, it’s time for him to go. I could care less that he’s Japanese and attracts the Japanese market, never cared, if Seattle cares, send him there.
If he will not be benched, he should be dropped to eighth so Cano can bat sixth behind Posada. That people are talking about benching Matsui in favor of Duncan or Giambi alone means he has to go.
Damn working getting in the way.
upon closer examination. That is a good lineup.
One thing I think everyone can agree on, in addition to hiding Jasons glove, we need to hide Matsui’s.
Bench Matsui, at least Cabrera has decent ABs. Matsui just looks lost up there. Hindsight is 20-20, but Torre should have sent Giambi to the plate in the 5th instead of Godzilla.
Melky looked alot more confortable batting from the left side than the right, so we’ll see tonite.
Matsui had no business being in last nites game and Shelly should have started in his place. Torre will start Matsui again tonite just to prove he is indeed clueless and has no feel for the game.
Giambi’s last at bat showed he got some bat speed and life back in his swing so I’d like to see him start instead of Hideki tonite.
If Matsui is still in the lineup, Giambi needs to play first today, with Mientkewicz as a late inning defensive replacement.
I think keeping Matsui is huge for the Yankees on the business side. He brings a lot of money to that team. I wonder how much yen Yomuri is giving the Yankees for those signs in the OF?
Anyway, I think the Yankees would have a hard time moving Matsui to any team. His contract is too big.
He’ll be fine, he’s just hurting right now. He probably needs more rest than he is letting on, so it’s up to Torre to sit him, or move him down in the line-up.
I just heard a clip of Torre where he was asked if he gave Posada the green light on 3-0 and his answer was “pretty much”. Pretty much is not yes. Joe took Jorge’s back on that one.
I don’t know about the whole Matsui thing, but.. With Melky, you just have to let him work it out..
Hes our CF, and he’ll preform out there.. JUst have to trust in the coaches and hope he figures things out at the plate..
Shui
Matsui put up an 854 OPS and a 128 OPS+ this year.
If I knew you, I’d bet a large sum on Matsui vs. Alou next year.
Yes, he’s declined in the last month due to injury, but you’re turning him into Mo Vaguhn – Met era and it’s not true.
I agree I think the Yankees should trade Matsui, will they doubt it. He clearly is a liablity in the field and has become injury prone, likely for all the reasons pointed out above.
Where is Kevin Thompson when you need him?
If JD Drew got $70M for 5 years, someone would take Matsui for $13M.
Here’s another reason to get rid of this 3-year wonder (first three years):
He has yet to volunteer to move to 1B. Who’s at first next year? Certainly not Giambi. Please with Mientkiewicz. Mientkiewicz is the perfect backup 1B who could hold down the position for a month or two if the 1B was out with injury but that’s it. Phillips is an unknown quantity. It’d be unfair to expect him to put together a full season version of his 2007. Carlos Pena will probably want the sun, the moon, and the stars, and I don’t blame him as he just had a magnificent season with lowly Tampa Bay (46 HR and 121 RBI) and is only 29 years old. Get outta here with Damon moving to 1B. Abreu if he was brought back certainly couldn’t move there, he can’t even play RF. Another thing re: Pena: How’s he coming here when there’s a logjam in LF (Damon and Matsui)? If Pena plays 1B then Damon or Matsui is a $13M bench/ part-time player as Melky owns CF now.
So how about Matsui? Or is he all about himself? Who is he anyway? Everyone gets on A-Rod for the postseason, well what has Matsui done there? What’d he do in the 2003 World Series?
The only problem I forsee in hitting Giambi and Posada consecutively in a lineup is how susceptible it lends them to the DP, especially with a ground-ball sinker specialist like Carmona– the corollary to which is that it prevents the Yankees from running, which they have to do to stay out of double plays and to take advantage of Marinez’s inaccurate arm.
If the Yankees play Giambi, I’d keep Posada behind A-Rod and stick Cano in between them.
pat…’pretty much’??? Either a manager gives the player a green light or he doesn’t.
I agree…protecting one of his own…which he should and that’s why the players love Torre. I can’t think of anyone who would do a better job with this team.
You can complain all you want about his mismanagement of the bullpen, or his strategic decisions; but this is what Torre bring to the Yankees, the ability to massage the egos of a clubhouse full of millionaires.
We’ll see if it pays off tonight.
definitely DH Giambi to match up against the righty Carmona… and keep Duncan available for playing the field just in case or a late pinch hit.
who cares about posada having a green light. the pitch was a strike anyway. the “pretty much” response by torre is probably because posada knows he has a green light in such occasions…
I’m pretty sure Matsui has a full no trade clause and I can’t see him waiving it…so everybody settle down a bit and remember that he carried us through the month of July.
Having said that, it was a no-brainer to sit him for Duncan last night and since Giambi seems to have found his stroke lately, I’d play him over Matsui right now.
Kill Schill–true but after A. Rod, there really is very little speed in the lineup. Cano probably has more speed than Posada or Giambi but he’s still slow. You might run into the same problem with DPs if he’s hitting behind Posada.
Either way, I think the key is to replace Matsui at DH with Giambi, for tonight anyway.
I think Matsui should sit and Giambi should be the DH the rest of the way. I think he is hurt and in turn is hurting our team. Melky should be the CF and his defense has not lapsed even with his troubles at the plate. Did you see how he covered the throw to 2nd from Posada (huge props).
Mint should start at 1B all the time unless he is hurt. Duncan is your DH against lefthanders the rest of the way. You can always use Betemit at 1B or Duncan if he is not the DH. Even if Duncan is the DH he could come in late.
No matter how far we get this post season it is time for Matsui to go. I would much prefer Damon in LF and Giambi/Duncan as DH in 08. Re 1B in 08….can you say Carlos Pena!!
Yankees in 4!!
Ok Im confused…
Why are we trading Matsui again?
The guy hit .285 this year with 25 HR…… Thats pretty solid.
everyone is mad at Matsui, but he just took liquid out so his timing is probably still messed up a bit. I have a feeling he might give better AB’s today. I think yesterday’s game was more on Posada. He was up with one out and 3-0 count and couldn’t hit a sac fly…
You can’t play Giambi at first tonight. Pettite has a great move, and as we saw last year, a good base stealer will just go if Pettite throws over and Giambi is at first. They’re betting Giambi won’t be able to make a throw to second and get them out. And he probably won’t throw the runner out.
Giambi’s gotta DH. Matsui has to sit. Giambi is a presence in the line up no matter what especially against a power right hander. 3-7 gotta go Abreu, ARod, Giambi, Jorge, Cano. Doug and Melky hold up the back end of the order with good ABs. Giambi behind ARod will make Carmona think twice about walking ARod. I know Jorge had a great season, but I don’t see him catching up with the fastballs like Giambi can.
My dream lineup (not that Torre would ever do it)
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Posada
Damon
Giambi
Cano
Melky
Man K
abe…you are right…all this finger pointing at Matsui…
What about Posada who came up twice with runners in scoring position and 1 out and struck out both times.
Let’s place some blame where it’s due…for last night, Posada was more of culprit than Matsui.
Some of you are having to many knee-jerk reactions here..
Yes hes in a slump, so lets definitly talk about if he should be playing or not..
But to trade a guy that hits .285, has 100 RBI and 100 Runs?
Come on now..
Blaming Posada? Yeah right.
Everyones seems to forget that the guy on the mound was the best pitcher in baseball and was giving everything he had to get Posada out. Posada just missed that 3-0 pitch and then C.C. made great pitches to get out of it.
The blame for that game falls squarely on Wang’s shoulders. The bats did what they needed to do. They stayed close and got Sabathia out in the 5th. Then they simply were just deflated by what Wang came out and did right after that in the bottom of the 5th.
Wang need to step up and he didn’t. He was terrible. I think we really are beginning to see that this guy is not a big game pitcher.
Dman…right on…
Saucy
That wasn’t a knock on either of them. I applaud Torre for doing it. Those of us who watch Yanks know a few of the players are on their own. If Joe had said Jorge is on his own, it opens Jorge to questions. Instead Torre took the bullet for him.
There was a report in today’s NYT that Joe might consider bringing Wang back on 3-days rest in Game 4.
Anyone out there in TV land know Wang’s stats on 3-days rest or alternatively, know where I can find them??
Game 1 is over.
Game 2: 5 hours 1 minutes
should have been 10 minutes. I’m not so good with the typing.
Sorry if this is a duplicate. But I needed a laugh after last night’s game. Found it online:
The Village Voice came across a list accidentally included from a road trip the Yanks took to Seattle in the last week of August of 2005. It was a crib sheet explaining which player and coach names went with which hotel-room pseudonyms. Some are juvenile, some are awesome, and some are just random as hell.
Here’s the list.
Pseudonym: Simon Phoenix
Real name: Mike Mussina
Pseudonym: Bruce Almighty
Real name: Don Mattingly
Pseudonym: Austin Powers
Real name: Ruben Sierra
Pseudonym: Johnny Drama
Real name: Derek Jeter
Pseudonym: Turd Ferguson
Real name: Jaret Wright
Pseudonym: Richard Long (very clever Bernie)
Real name: Bernie Williams
Pseudonym: Turd Ferguson
Real name: Jaret Wright
Pseudonym: Rickey Ricardo
Real name: Jorge Posada
Pseudonym: Joe Saturday
Real name: Hideki Matsui
Pseudonym: Harry Pelotas (yes, that’s Harry Balls when translated)
Real name: Luis Sojo
Pseudonym: Sam Adams
Real name: Randy Johnson
Pseudonym: Eleven Fifty
Real name: Matt Lawton
So, two weeks ago everyone wanted to get rid of Giambi, now it’s Matsui who must go. This board gets more interesting by the hour. Hopefully Pettite wins tonight or there will be hoards of fans I’m sure saying they wish Pettite would opt out of his contract and not re-sign. I find the backseat GM’s on this board rather amusing…….
“I find the backseat GM’s on this board rather amusing…….”
couldn’t agree with you more. well said
I also must say that Shelley Duncan should not be ruled out. Yeah, Sabathia’s a lefty but he’s one of the toughest pitchers in the AL and Duncan worked a heck of an at bat last night. He was down 0-2 and got it up to 3-2 and then hit a nice opposite field single which looked like it was going to start a rally.
This is redundant of me to say this, but as bad as things went for Posada and Matsui last night, it only takes one great swing by either one of them to right the ship. I don’t think that I would trade Matsui either. He’s a professional at the plate and in the clubhouse. The Yankees are definitely better off keeping him than looking at outfielders on the free agent market.
Kill Schill- I don’t think that Wang has ever started on three days rest.
Bob…I don’t think anybody here would disagree with your comments about Wang…he needed to pitch better.
But Posada’s ab in the 5th was a game changer. The Yankees had the tying run on 3B with less than 2 outs. Posada needs to come through in that situation. Sabathia was up over 100 pitches at that point and he was on the ropes. The Yankees should’ve found a way to put him away. Posada could’ve done that.
Honestly, scoring runs from 3B with less than 2 outs has been something that has haunted this team in the playoffs for the past few years. If they are going to win they need to do a better job at it.
As well as get good starting pitching.
“The Yankees should put him on waivers like Boston put Manny Ramirez on waivers after 2003. 2003 Manny BURIES 2007 Matsui who posted a weak 25 HR and 102 RBI because he was so streaky.”
yes, give him away. that’s genius.
“Matsui is far too valuable to this organization in terms of the revenues he brings in from japan. they could pay him $30 mil a year and he would still be profitable for them.”
this is not true. it is a myth. all overseas revenue is split 30 ways. there are a few extra million here and here from selling signage in yankee stadium and additional ticket sales to japanese tourists, but do you really think Matsui is worth more than $30M a year to the yankees? think about that, is it even reasonable?
Kill-Schill(ing)–
About Wang on 3 days rest… That hasn’t happened at all this year.
In fact, according to baseball-reference.com, hes only done it once in his entire career..
In that game he pitched 4.3 innings, gave up 6 hits, 2 ER.
another thing i keep thinking of – players DO have the ability to come out of slumps in the playoffs. I know that sounds crazy, but a hit here or there can really boost confidence.
the one painful memory that comes to mind is our very own johnny damon. those silly hits he had in game 7 of the 04 alcs kinda pulled him out of a late season/post season slump…
Also, a lot of hypothetical here. If Pettitte gets the win tonight with a quality start and then we split in New York, do you go to Andy for Game 5 instead of Wang? My gut says yes.
Kill-Schill(ing)—
Actually, now that I look at it, he didn’t start that game.. He must have come in pretty early on though..
He did start once on 2 days rest.. He pitched 7 innings, gave up 8 hits but only 1 run and got the win…
And to add to that, Game 5 would be Wednesday, so Andy would be pitching on normal rest.
To everyone who thinks Matsui has lost it, these are his career stats and his stats from this year
Career .295 AVG .371 OBP .485 SLG 126 OPS+
This year .285 AVG .367 OBP .488 SLG 128 OPS +
Looks pretty much identical doesn’t it folks?
Kill-Schill(ing)- I like the idea of Wang on 3days. That way he pitches tired where he’s better, he pitches at home, where’s 2ERA oints better, and Pettite pitches a game 5 if needed where we want him. I like the idea A LOT.
thanks DMAN. On 2-days rest? Really? I wonder when that occurred? He must have only pitched an inning or two the days before. I can’t imagine the organization would have allowed Torre to pitch a guy with a history of arm trouble twice in two days.
But from what you;re telling me they haven’t really given him an authentic start him after 3-days of rest either?
“The Yankees should put him on waivers like Boston put Manny Ramirez on waivers after 2003. 2003 Manny BURIES 2007 Matsui who posted a weak 25 HR and 102 RBI because he was so streaky.�
also, how did keeping Manny work out for the Red Sox? no complaints i’m sure.
Jonathon, I agree that Posada needed to come through there. But great pitchers get out of jams all the time like that when they know they are just about out of the game. Sabathia dug deep, got one last jolt, and got the job done. You tip your hat and move on, knowing now you got him out and are down only a run.
Wang’s bottom of the 5th killed any momentum they had.
If he could have come out and held it at 4-3 that inning, I really do think the outcome of that game would have been very different. That’s why I lay all the blame for last night on him, and not Posada.
Carmine…I think that’s what Torre wants to do. There’s no way you pitch Wang, with his struggles on the road, in a deciding Game 5 in Cleveland.
So I think you have to pitch Wang at some point between now and then. Game 4 would make the most sense. If Wang does start a Game 4, I think he’s on a real short leash, with Mussina waiting in the wings.
DMan- Was the game where he pitched on two days rest the start after he recorded a save against Baltimore?
“Also, a lot of hypothetical here. If Pettitte gets the win tonight with a quality start and then we split in New York, do you go to Andy for Game 5 instead of Wang? My gut says yes.”
yes. absolutely.
i love Wang, but i would rather have Pettitte going on the road. Andy would be on regular rest. it’s a no brainer.
Enoch
2007 Alou hit .341 with .392 OBP + .524 SLG = .924 OPS (> Matsui’s OPS) in the superior pitching league and in an injury-plagued season. No question he’s the DH who starts against Sabathia last night if he was on the Yanks. He’d probably be the starting DH throughout the postseason for the Yanks on his numbers. I’d take your bet anyday, “if I knew you”
Matsui had an empty 2007 because he was so streaky and the lion’s share of his HRs were hit in the span of a month. This year is his last good season. Do not expect the same or better from him next year. He’ll be Mel Hall II who’s only selling point is he’s still a star in Japan. Fine -let Seattle claim him or offer him to Seattle and he can be that star there. I doubt he angers the Yanks by refusing a trade to anywhere. He strikes me as the kind of guy who’d agree to a trade if he wasn’t wanted anymore and demand a trade if he was put on waivers a la Manny Ramirez after 2003.
Mike Cameron who made $7M this year and will be a free agent this offseason could post 25 HR and 102 RBI with this lineup and BURY Matsui range, arm, and defense wise at about half the price of 2008/9 Matsui. Even if Mike posted a pedestrian 20 HR and 80 RBI, the bare minimum I expect from any corner outfielder unless he posted .300 BA and .380 OBP or better e.g. usual/ typical Abreu, I’ll take him and his defense over Matsui anyday.
Jonathon what on Earth are you talking about?!! 2003 is over. So’s 2004 and 2005. The bloom came off Matsui’s rose after 2005.
Let’s say the Yanks got rid of Matsui this offseason. They will sell out most if not all home games next year because it is the final season in the current Yankee Stadium with or without Matsui. Ditto for 2009 with the new Yankee Stadium. Big deal if the Yanks lose the Japanese market -who else has it besides Seattle really? Boston? Yeah, where was Matsuzaka in this year’s All Star Game? Was he there? If not how come Japan didn’t vote him in? Okajima is a nice story but he’s not exact a gate attraction. Expect Kaz Matsui, an overpaid bum with the Mets, to be next year’s starting 2B for the N.L. in next year’s All-Star Game regardless of what he does next year cuz of his money performance in this year’s N.L.D.S. I seriously doubt Hideki will be there.
Oh yeah, Japanese/ Asian people who root for the Yanks or any team cuz there’s a Japanese player on that team are fake fans and can go to he ll.
‘Last I checked, winning wasn’t about placating an entire country and selling as many jerseys of their native son as possible. That’s the problem. The Yanks are too concerned with business and not enough about winning. Cashman throws away $46M on a pitcher who hasn’t thrown a pitch in M.L.B. in his life (Igawa) and does zilch for the bullpen save LUCK OUT with Joba. He can thank his lucky stars for Joba who has yet to prove who he is when it really counts -I hope he does this evening (or I hope he does if he has to come in). Imagine if Cashman used even $10M of the $26M posting fee for Igawa on 3 relievers to complement Mo and Viz then Joba.
Matsui is no longer an asset to the Yankees. He’s a liability in the field and at the plate. He’s much older than his current age. Don’t tell me he isn’t slide-shy after his injury in the OF last year, he is. There’s no room for him in LF or at DH. It’s over i.e. it should be over just like Giambi should be a goner after next year, Damon after ‘09, both gone asap if anyone takes them.
Melky has to play. His defense is worth having 1 spot in the lineup that isn’t an allstar hitter. Not to mention he CAN have a good game at times.
Matsui has to sit. We have 3 players who could be more effective DH’s at this point. Giambi, Duncan, Betemit should be getting ABs.
I’m actually warming to the idea of pitching Wang in Game 4. I just think he was too strong last night because he hadn’t pitched since September 26th, 8 days earlier.
I have a lot faith in Wang actually. He strikes me as the kind of guy who could got bombed one outing and come back and pitch a gem, rather like Pettite in ‘96, after getting bombed in Game 1 of WS and then pitching a shut-out in Game 5.
Kill-Schill(ing)-
Yah the game he came in for on 3 days rest was in 2005..
It’ll be a brand new experience for him if the Yankees try it.. Who knows..
most of you guys are lost
matsui has been bad for weeks now, so to say “he had his knee drained, lets give him some time” is WACK
his bat is slow, his front side is way out and hes pulling everything…
secondly, those who say last nights loss was bout CC being a cy young pitcher and that he handled us last night, please go home and turn out the lights! he stunk last night and along with Matsui, Posada killed us with his ugly right handed k’s…
lastly, dont know what has taken you all so long to realize this but Wang IS NOT A #1 OR #2 IN THIS LEAGUE…at best he is a 3 and stinks on the road…you lay off the sinker, he becomes a BP pitcher with mediocre stuff
I’d swear that sometimes this blog needs a suicide watch. Trading Matsui is a poor idea for various reasons, not the least of being the renvue he generates.
I’ll agree with the majority that he needs to sit, he’s hurting the team. I’ll also agree that his defensive skills have declined tremendously in the last few years. I actually cringe seeing him in left with the poor routes he takes to get to the ball. All that being said, he would be a great DH, right now is just not the time to see if he can find himself. Cleveland’s pitching is too good to expect him to just catch fire. Giambi is probably the best option at DH right now. I too would have liked to have seen Duncan DHing last night, but it wasn’t to be.
I begin to worry that Torre will now panic again and start to do silly things with the lineup just like last postseason.
There are a few things I feel strongly about:
1. Mientkiewicz should be at first.
2. Damon should be in left.
3. Melky should be in center.
Giambi and Matsui should never be on the field unless they’ve hit themselves on the basepaths. We’ve all seen over the last few years what poor defense in the playoffs can do.
Incidentally, when is MLB going to abolish these damn 5-game divisional series. The ALDS should be best of 7 like the ALCS and WS. Under the current format too much is owed to chance.
Bob…it’s not a blame game. I’m reluctant to say any one loss is because of one person. After all, it is a team game, with various players working together to get a win. When you start assigning sole blame to specific players you deal with too many hypotheticals.
I mean I can argue that the Yankees letting CC off the hook in that inning lead to their rally in the 5th. If the Yankees tie the game, the Indians don’t put forth the effort they did in the bottom of the inning. Like I said, too many ifs.
And it’s true that great pitchers do get out of trouble. But great line-ups exploit great pitchers when they are vunerable. Sabathia was vunerable at that point in the game.
Either way, the key parts of the Yankees TEAM did not work as they should have last night.
Everyone wants someone to blame so it must be Matsui’s turn this year.
No reason to trade Matsui. The guy is hurt. Last I checked, that shouldn’t be a tradeable offense.
A healthy Matsui is a great run producer.
He’s not healthy now, so just sit him. Its not hard. DH Giambi, sit Matsui, and keep Melky in center, batting 9th.
You can also move Cano up to 6th to keep teams from pitching around Arod and/or Posada.
Or, if you really want to get creative, put Cano behind Arod in the order. This way, Arod will get pitches to hit.
Its not tough stuff. The manager just has to do it. That may be the tough thing. He seems very set in his ways, once he “trusts” someone.
Swap Godzilla for Frankenstein. I know he’s got more experience and blah blah blah but I trust Shelley more.
pat…exactly
SJ…exactly…and I kinda like the idea of Cano hitting behind A. Rod…
Oh well, if only I were the manager…
hmmmm
Uhhhh Matsui is not prime Manny. You lose.
Let’s say Seattle claimed Matsui off waivers. Ever heard of Carlos Pena who hit 46 HR and 121 RBI for Tampa Bay this year? The Yanks would clear the $26M owed Matsui and put that towards signing Pena for this monster lineup:
Damon/Jeter/Abreu/A-Rod/Pena/Posada/Cano/Giambi/Cabrera
LF SS RF 3B 1B C 2B DH CF
L R L R L S L L S
I remember Michael Kay saying during a Yankee-T.B. game broadcast that Pena’s agent Scott Boras is asking for a multiyear contract at $11M/yr. for Pena. He’s worth it, the guy has arrived. He’d probably only command 3-4 years tops, but I’ll take him at age 29.
Forget Pena. Damon LF, Giambi DH, new 1B if not Pena.
For the superstitious among you:
While taking the garbage out, I took a walk around the block. I saw
*SEVEN* squirrels.
Three of which crossed my path directly.
Take that as you will, I’m going to do some reading before gametime.
You don’t take Melky out of the lineup. End of story. With his arm alone, he can save a win for this team, but I think he’s still productive with the bat and AT WORST can lay down bunts for us to move runners over.
Matsui has to sit on the bench. He looks like a shell of his former self and he’s had this look for a lot of times this season. Either he’s become incredibly streaky or he’s very injured — whatever it is, his consistency has gone out the window and Joe can’t keep plugging him in there hoping for lightning in a bottle.
Shelley should have started last night and in one at bat against CC showed more life and thought than Matsui showed all night.
Let Shelley and Giambi take the DH at bats because they seem to care more about quality at bats than Matsui right now.
Matsui is tentative, he’s flailing at pitches. He’s not himself. I’m not going to tell you he’s garbage or a bum, but he’s not himself and if the rest of us can see this why are the Yankees insisting on playing him.
We’ve lose in the post season before catering to ego’s and I thought the lesson of this regular season was that was over. Between Matsui and starting Mussina game 4, to me at least, it seems like business as usual catering to ego’s with the Yankees and that will be tough to overcome.
It’s all staring Torre and Cashman in the face and if they continue to cover their ears and scream “La La La I can’t hear you”, then Joe is going be managing in St. Louis next season.
It’s time to pull the blinders off and be smart and agressive. Matsui (and Mussina) have never won a world series with the Yankees. Stop treating them like they were members of the dynasty years.
With the righty Carmona I stick with Matsui or go to Betemit. Shelly should be no where near the batters box tonight unless Doug M can’t go.
One thing is known. Tonight is a *MUST WIN*.
Whatever is done, please no Giambi at first base, EVER!!
Matsui needs to be benched. But we need Melky in center for his defense. He had a nice AB in the 9th last night, I’m thinking he is getting it around soon.
Those of you calling for Matsui to be traded are the worst types of fans. He shouldn’t have been in the lineup to begin with last night as I’ve been saying all along. He was 0-9 against Sabathia going into the game, now he’s 0-11. What a surprise. Joe needs to get his sh!t together.
If Matsui were to get traded(virtually no chance), who’s supposed to be our other corner outfielder? Damon isn’t the long term solution. Torii Hunter? NO. Andruw Jones? NO. Mike Cameron? NO. Somebody mentioned Milton Bradley last night, which is comical. That’s a defiant NO!!! Stick with Matsui, he will be fine.
What to do about Melky? Not much else to do except figure out whatever he needs to be told for his mental approach, or to tweak in his swing in order to break out of his slump. As far as I’ve heard, he’s fine physically. Who knows … maybe someone just needs to make up some story to get him all pissed off and plays like a madman.
I’ve been thinking also that Matsui’s knees could be in worse shape than has been disclosed to the public. So maybe the thing to do with him is limit him to pinch hitting and a little extra time with the trainer until the post season’s over, then have him go to an orthopedist. Only the medical guys could know what’s going on inside his knees be but maybe all he needs done is a little scope work and he’ll be himself again next year. I’m not worried about him pulling a Pavano for the rest of his contract. That’s just not his way. He’s been a workhorse for a dozen years it’d be no surprise if his knees have a little loose cartiledge (sp?) by now.
Matsui’s also not going to have his batting average settle down 60-80 points lower than it used to be, like Giambi did in his post-steroid years. He’ll most likely hit somewhere around .300 and hit 20-25HR again.
Here’s a batting order that can do damage tonight:
Damon (LF)
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Cano
Posada
Giambi (DH)
Melky
Minky (1B)
You have Cano behind Arod, giving Arod pitches to hit. You have a SH between the two lefties in the order, and a SH between Giambi and Minky, minimizing Perez’s effectiveness out of the bullpen.
Given Matsui’s injury, its the best lineup the Yankees can put out against RH pitching, IMO.
Doesn’t mean Torre will do it but, it should be the lineup for tonight.
“Between Matsui and starting Mussina game 4, to me at least, it seems like business as usual catering to ego’s with the Yankees and that will be tough to overcome.”
I don’t think it has anything to do with catering to egos. Matsui ESPECIALLY does not seem the kind of guy that has a big ego. It’s about Joe going with what makes him feel “comfortable”. And that translates to “veterans”. He’s comfortable with playing Matsui because he always plays Matsui. Even though he’s been injured and hasn’t seen live pitching in a week and a half and has never hit Sabathia. What’s Matsui supposed to do? Go beg to NOT be in the lineup?
It’s JOE’s job to tell players when they play and when they don’t. It’s JOE’s job to decide that someone’s hurting the team by playing through injury.
If we’re looking to place blame, there’s plenty to go around for pretty much everyone. It’s not a binary thing. Wang stunk, but that doesn’t mean that Jorge didn’t also fail to come through despite being put in some VERY favorable hitting situations. Joe chose Matsui over Shelley, but that doesn’t mean that Matsui didn’t look terrible at the plate.
Wang stunk, Jorge, Derek, and Matsui all did nothing. They pitched around ARod a lot, but he still didn’t produce the one or two times they gave him a chance. Ohlendorf didn’t do well. A lot of things went poorly for the team yesterday. Hopefully, Andy can stabilize things and the offense can start thinking small and up the middle again instead of acting like they need to hit a homer everytime they come up with RISP.
SJ: The one problem I have with that line up is that Robby doesn’t have the best eye.
Yes, he can hit it out, yes he can do serious damage, but getting Robby to walk is tricky, and you want someone that will be patient and take pitches after A-rod.
Will be interesting to see what Torre does, at any rate.
If Torre can’t manage this payroll of players,going to a
small market like st louis isn’t any better. Besides Joe
came here form st louis,who didn’t respect him as a
coach.That’s how St louis got La R Reussa remember?
I have been saying to trade Matsui for years.
Torres not going to mess with the lineup order to much.. At least with the regulars..
He did that last year, and everybody attacked him..
“Torres not going to mess with the lineup order to much.. At least with the regulars..
He did that last year, and everybody attacked him..”
Yankee fans being Yankee fans.
“i would rather have Pettitte going on the road. Andy would be on regular rest. it’s a no brainer.”
if it gets that far, pettitte is of course a no brainer. you don’t fool around at this time of the year. my problem with the yankee braintrust is that they don’t get the concept of “no brainer” at this time of the year. they come up with things like “let’s teach sheffield first base for the playoffs”. ‘let’s pitch a rookie with 6 inning in his mlb career” in a situation where there is still a chance to win a game.” let’s pitch wang on really long rest” when conventional wisdom says that’s a bad idea.
i don’t think the yankees higher ups grasp the concept of “no brainer”.
that said, the playoffs are a crap shoot so no matter how scewed up yankee strategies are
the yankees have a shot.if pettitte can be good pettitte the yankees will be back in it.
When Matsui coems to the plate, I don’t expect anything. Giambi kills at the jake, I’d love to see him in the lineup today.
most of you guys are lost
matsui has been bad for weeks now, so to say “he had his knee drained, lets give him some time� is WACK
his bat is slow, his front side is way out and hes pulling everything…
secondly, those who say last nights loss was bout CC being a cy young pitcher and that he handled us last night, please go home and turn out the lights! he stunk last night and along with Matsui, Posada killed us with his ugly right handed k’s…
lastly, dont know what has taken you all so long to realize this but Wang IS NOT A #1 OR #2 IN THIS LEAGUE…at best he is a 3 and stinks on the road…you lay off the sinker, he becomes a BP pitcher with mediocre stuff
Robby may not have the best eye Rebecca but, he’s swinging the bat better than Matsui at this time.
Also, its a spot in the order where its not as important to work counts as it is to drive in runs. Next to Arod, Cano is probably the most consistent RBI guy on the team right now.
Look at it from the Indians perspective. Their philosophy is simple. Don’t let Arod beat you.
So, they will gladly walk him in front of Posada (who hits into a lot of DP’s) or a struggling Matsui because they don’t feel they can get hurt by either guy.
However, if you have Cano behind Arod, a guy who hits both lefties and righties with equal effectiveness and is swinging the bat well, it changes their strategy. They will have to pitch to Arod, and he will get pitches to hit. If they continue to pitch around him, Cano makes them pay.
I believe if Torre sticks with Posada and Matsui behind Arod, he won’t get anything to hit in this series.
Two things will then happen. Arod will panic, expand his strikezone, and get himself out. Or, he will take his walks and Posada and Matsui will struggle.
Its why Joe has to change the order, IMO. This is when his in game strategy has to pick up.
He’s 3-11 in his last 14 post-season games. Mainly, because of pitching and his inability to make the proper adjustments to his lineup.
That has to change or he loses this series. IMO, if he loses this series, he isn’t back as Yankee Manager.
Losing in the post-season is one thing. Not getting out of the first round and getting smoked every night is another.
He, like the players, has to pick up his game. If not, there will be a new guy in the manager’s chair next year.
“You have Cano behind Arod, giving Arod pitches to hit. ”
why do something that hasn’t been done all year? posada would get much more respect from opposing pitchers than cano.
sj44-
flip posada and cano in your lineup and it looks good to me.
Bottom line, whatever order we use tonight.
This is a must win.
SJ: Only in New York can a manager engineer one of the greatest comebacks in recent history and still get calls for him to not be here next year…
…That aside, I see your point.
I don’t really agree with it–Posada has a great eye, he’s got postseason experience, as long as the Yankees don’t green light him on 3-0 I still have him behind A-Rod.
However, if Torre wanted to bat Arod, Posada, Cano, Matsui/Giambi, I’m down with that.
Some posters are way too eager to cut valuable team members over an injury a slump. I wonder how many would have dumped Jeter when he dislocated his shoulder? “DFA the guy and sign someone else … he’ll never be the same!”
Trading Matsui would be foolish. If his problem is a pair of knees that need to be ’scoped, he’ll be fine next year. If he’s got a little torn cartlidge in there, cartlidge doesn’t heal so it’s not going to get too much better before they get ’scoped. Once he gets that fixed (assuming thats all it is) he should have 3 or 4 good years left in him. Maybe a couple more if he becomes the DH when he gets older.
I got the following email from someone regarding how espn handled last nights game. I won’t bore you with all the details.
* “Due to
time constraints AND BECAUSE CLEVELAND IS KICKING THE YANKEES ASS,
we’ll now bring you.. *
Postseason experience is the most overrated notion in the HISTORY of BASEBALL!!!
Stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it with the “October Experience”.
We have a kings ransom of “Postseason Experience” and we can’t win diddly poo!
Matsui should absolutely sit tonight. Giambi wasnt doing much in Sept. either but atleast he is healthy and deserves a chance especially after seeing Matsui look 100% lost last night. I also wish they had a better(smarter) #5 hitter especially if they are not going to pitch to Arod. Posada was 3-0 and swinging at everything in sight like it was a 0-2 count. He has to learn some patience which he very rarely has.
Melky is another story. If Matsui was healthy my lineup for the play offs would of been Damon CF, Matsui LF and Giambi DH. Melky was about as overmatched last night as overmatched can get. He was swinging at high fastballs that he could never hit. He is not a major league hitter…I do not understand why people think he is.
Pettitte better be good tonight. Otherwise it would be quite scary being down 0-2 and expecting Clemens and Mussina to actually pitch good games. If not it will be the same old story in the play offs as usual. They dont pitch and dont situational hit.
Not necessarily Rebecca. Tony LaRussa won a WS last year and he is not coming back to STL, a supposedly “soft” media market.
Walt Jockertty, one of the best GM’s in the business, also got blown out in St. Louis after this season, after 14 years in charge.
When you see soft markets making these kind of changes, its not just NY that acts this way. Plus, the Yankees haven’t changed managers in 12 years. That’s longer than anybody in baseball, with the exception of the Braves.
There are two ways of looking at the “comeback” this year. One would be, with a 200+ million dollar payroll, and a roster full of stars, this team should have NEVER been 21-29, and looked so dead so early in the season.
Also, it was Brian Cashman, not Joe Torre, who blew up the bullpen, got rid of his favorites (Proctor and Myers) and gave Torre Chamberlain (making him a relief pitcher in mid-season) under the Joba Rules, to protect the kid from Torre’s overuse of relief pitchers.
That, along with the use of some of the other young players, changed the season around. That came from Cashman, not Torre.
The other way of looking at it is, he did a great job getting the team back into the race and getting the Wild Card.
Reality? Probably somewhere between the two positions.
However, if he loses this series, especially if he gets swept, that’s 3-14 in his last 17 post-season games. Add to that, 3 straight first round losses, and overseeing the greatest post-season choke in history.
Gonna be hard to justify bringing him back, especially with the team in transition, should another first round loss take place.
Regardless of the market, at some point, you have to win post-season series. Since 2004, that hasn’t happened to the Yankees. That is going to weigh into the decision whether or not to bring him back.
My opinion? He wins this series, you bring him back. Getting to the ALCS is an improvement from last year and that’s all you can ask for.
Lose this series? You need to change managers and go in a new direction. Its time, especially with the focus shifting to younger players.
Global Warming-
I agree with you on that one.
“SJ: The one problem I have with that line up is that Robby doesn’t have the best eye.
Yes, he can hit it out, yes he can do serious damage, but getting Robby to walk is tricky, and you want someone that will be patient and take pitches after A-rod.”
I agree with Rebecca on this point.
Here’s my line up for tonight:
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
AROD 3B
Giambi DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
ManK 1B
Melky CF
It was also Cashman who started the season with Pavano and Igawa in the starting rotation. Blame goes both ways.
Anyway, go ask the San Diego Chargers how firing your coach works for you? 14-2–best record in football and gets canned after a 1 and done in the playoffs.
Fast Forward to the present and the Chargers look awful with a new coach and are sitting ugly at 1-3.
They sure miss Marty now!
Wait for it, Wait for it, a crescendo!!!
Pitching thoughts:
Tonight: Unless we have a big lead (4 runs +) Joba should be the first guy out of the pen. Pitch him 3 innings if we need to. Mo goes 2 if Joba has to come in earlier than the 7th. I don’t want to see Vizcaino or Farnsworth tonight with anything less than a four run lead.
Sunday
Moose backs up Clemens and is the first guy out of the pen if Clemens goes less than 6 (harkening back to Game 7 in 2003). Joba and Mo if its close from the 7th on.
Monday
Wang backed up by Hughes. If Wang is up in the zone yank him quick. If Wang pitches well (I would expect him to) and Joba has pitched 2 innings on Sunday, then Hughes should be the bridge to Mo.
Wednesday
If it goes this far, Pettitte gets the start and all hands on deck.
In sum, Joba and Mo for 3+ tonight. For the rest of the series I don’t want to see Farnsworth, Vizcaino, Veras or Ohlendorf unless we have a 4+ run lead and even then I want them on a very short leash.
Great idea, Pete! Let’s bench Matsui in favor of a guy who’s had something like 19 hits in his last 97 at bats.
What’s next, bench Wang and let Ohlendorf start Game 5?
They pitched Pavano and Igawa because 3 other guys were hurt. It wasn’t the original plan to have Carl Pavano as the Opening Day starter.
If you look at all of Cashman’s moves, I’d say the good FAR outweighs the bad.
Who was the guy that forced the young players onto Torre from 2005 to now? Cashman.
Can you say the same (good outweighs the bad) for Joe and his use of the bullpen, for example?
Uses Vizcaino ELEVEN times in games the second half of the year they are ahead by 4 or more runs. ‘Ya think that has a little to do with his “tired arm”?
I think even Torre’s most ardent admirers will concede he doesn’t handle game situations and bullpens well.
Unfortunately, in the post-season, in game strategy and bullpen decisions often decide games. Even last night, one could argue he not only staying too long with Wang, following him up with Ohlendorf was a poor decision.
All I am saying is, there is no way you can ignore this teams post-season performances since Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS. They have been putrid.
At some point, the manager is going to pay the price for that. Fairly or unfairly, that’s the way professional sports operates.
Giambi needs to DH. Duncan needs to sit on the bench and embrace that he is not a major league hitter. Matsui can hit his ground outs and pop ups in the batting cages. Him swinging at a 2-0 pitch with the bases loaded last night made me want to jump through the TV and kick him in the balls.
SJ: You know, you’re reminding me of the New Jersey Devils:
They won the Stanley cup in 95, missed the playoffs in 96, and despite being the best team in the East, had a long streak of first round exits, until 2000…when they were in fourth place.
Yes, Cashman is a genius. That goes without saying.
Point taken about St. Louis…but I don’t really see St. Louis as a soft market–St. Louis is like THE baseball city.
Anyway, my line up:
LF Damon
SS Jeter
RF Abreu
3B Arod
C Posada
2B Cano
DH Shelley (he’s been hitting better than Giambi IMO)
1B Mient Man
CF Melky
However, I’m not Joe. Not my call…
As far as the Chargers analogy is concerned, its not really accurate because you have to see who they would hire in Torre’s place. If they hired Art Howe, who is baseball’s version of Norv Turner, then its accurate.
You can’t honestly believe only one man can manage this team? At some point, every manager/coach, even the great one’s need to move on. Its very hard to stay at one place for so long and continue to have the same level of success.
The fact is, the Yankees haven’t been the same since the ‘04 debacle. They haven’t. They struggled to make the playoffs in ‘05 and ‘07 and have been AWFUL in the post-season since Game 4 of the ‘04 ALCS.
The numbers don’t lie. 3-11, and outscored 84-50 in those games. That’s what Torre is up against when determining his future.
Is it really worth 7+ million dollars a year to pay a manager for those results? That’s the question I’m sure the Yankees are asking themselves right now.
Rebecca,
St. Louis is “the” baseball city as far as fan support is concerned. As a media market, its soft. Unlike NY, its a cheerleader market. To get rid of a GM and Manager, a year after an 83 win team won the WS (an amazing accomplishment) shows you, this is a winning business.
You don’t win, you aren’t safe.
If Tony LaRussa can get canned, Joe Torre isn’t safe. That’s all I am saying.
Sadly, I think we’re all wasting our breath. I read Torre’s quote about Matsui after last night in the Post earlier that was something like, “I’m not gonna change my mind about a guy after one game after what he’s done for us all season”…
I hope when Joe gets the pink slip all these guys he’s protected over the year carry him out of the stadium on their shoulders.
If they are not going to pitch to Arod, we need the best hitters we’ve got to follow him. Posada has been great all season, so I’m not going to bury him for last night, but Matsui has been a shell of himself for a month. There is no evidence to suggest he’s about to come out of this. There aren’t any hard hit balls and almost home runs that have come off Matsui’s bat in awhile.
If he’s gonna play the guy, then at the very least put him down further in the order where he’s farthest away from Arod so he’s not “protecting” him.
SJ’s lineup is dead on right, although I think that Cano has shown a tendency to choke and get away from himself when moved up in the lineup. I think the added pressure of being moved up in order doesn’t sit well with him, so there are risks with that.
The one person who had Giambi at DH batting behind Arod, IMO, was dead on. Jason will get the walk and he will make the opposing manager do the crazy shift which helps our baserunners wreak havoc.
If I saw Jason batting 5th tonight, I’d be happy. It won’t happen though. Joe’s convinced that Matsui is 100%. I’m guessing he doesn’t see what the rest of us see. Sometimes I wonder if he really does have his eyes closed when he’s in the dugout.
If Matsui was smashing the ball and it was turning into tough outs, it’d be one thing. Right now he’s lucky to pop up an infield fly the opposite way. He’s not himself. He needs to be benched.
You’re not trading Matsui you fools. He’ll be fine as a DH next season. Let’s keep the discussion to Game 2. If Matsui is hurt and he can not perform due to the injury, then Torre should place him on the bench for now. You can play Giambi against Carmona tonight. You keep the top five of the lineup the same for tonight but you fill up the rest of the order w/ Cano (6), Giambi (7), Doug (8) and Cabrera (9). Cano is a better hitter then Giambi so you might as well hit him above Giambi.
I tell Matsui:
“I understand there are slumps, and you’ll work out of this because you’re too good a hitter. Some stupid people forget that you were smacking the crap out of the ball just 2 months ago, and think you’re done and that we should put you on irrevocable waivers.
But if you ever swing at a 2-0 pitch with 2 outs and the bases loaded, against a tough pitcher who is having control problems, with us down by a run, in the playoffs, while you’re slumping, we’ll release you.”
While you might be right about Torre, the fact is that nobody can do a better job than Torre with this team.
I agree that he left Wang in there too long, and I agree that Ohlendorf was not the best option out of the bullpen but I have to have faith that he has a reason for doing those things.
Maybe the Ohlendorf move pays off down the line as now he got those first few playoff innings out of the way.
And again, Torre doesn’t put much stock in Game 1, so it’s more important to use the B-team out of the bullpen so that the A-Team is available for a Game 2, 3 and 4.
I find it funny that everyone is arguing over who is in the lineup when it really doesn’t make a difference. Giambi, Duncan, Matusi, etc. all don’t mean anything unless, we actually get a good pitched game from our starting pitcher.
The reason why we have lost in Round 1 of last years playoff was no the hitting it was our pitching. With a team ERA was 4.6 (05-Angels), 5.56 (06-Det) and 13.5 (07-Cle) you are not going to win postseason series.
Here’s my lineup–
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
giambi
Posada
Cano
Duncan
Melky
Shouldn’t we be getting a line-up soon…maybe the delay is because there’s lot of debate going on right now about the line-up.
Fingers crossed that Torre does the right thing.
I love Matsui…He’s a big part of the team, but right now, Giambi is a better DH.
Go here GREAT YANKEE ARTICLE
http://www.villagevoice.com/bl.....es_sup.php
-Rich Long
I’d give Matsui a rest here and let Giambi get some hacks.
Joe, remember 1996. Benching Tino, Boggs.
Find a hot hand.
Like Kid Icarus shooting his arrow and parting the heavens the prodigal son Andy Pettite comes home and will bask in the glory of his first Yankee postseason victory in 4 Years.
SJ: Oh, I agree. If LaRussa can go, anyone can go.
Matsui shouldn’t even be on the roster for this series.
Awesome article from The Voice…check it out.
Bernie…gotta love him
Here is my lineup:
1. Damon LF
2. Jeter SS
3. Abreau RF
4. A-Rod 3B
5. Cano 2B
6. Posada C
7. Giambi DH
8. Duncan 1B
9. Cabrera CF
I love Bernie even more after that article.
Pete,
With all negative garbage other “know-it-all” blogs are bound to throw at a time like this (NoMaas….looking straight at ya), it’s nice to know we’ve got yours to come to for balance. No matter the result, keep up the great work. No matter what the score was yesterday, it’s 0-0 now.
GO YANKS.
True..ask the 1960 Pirates if it matters how much you lose by in 1 game.
2:30PM Press conferences today not sure who it will be with hopingPete puts up the schedule
espnnews had “2:30 torre press conference” in the bottom corner before jim tracy got fired
sit matsui , melky has gotta play . as a matter of fact , shelly duncan should have dh’ed last night over matsui .
Yes it makes a lot of sense to move Posada down in the lineup even though he’s been arguably the Yankees 2nd best hitter all season and you typically want your best hitters to receive more at bats in a game. Posada is ‘impatient’ although he has 74 walks this year and has an OBP of .426
This all makes a ton of sense to me, what have I been thinking?!?
Is that press conference something strange? Don’t they ussualy always have pre-game conferences?
Hallo, Hallo!
Boy, yesterday was painful, but today is a new day.
Looking forward to a classic Andy Pettitte outing. The payoff pitch for him and his return to New York.
Go Yankees!
If a manager doesn’t “put much stock” into Game 1’s, (especially on the road) of Best of 3 series, then he shouldn’t be the manager.
I don’t believe Torre doesn’t put much stock into Game 1’s. I think he takes the “trust” thing too far and his management of a bullpen has gone downhill dramatically in recent years.
Its a distinct change from his first years as Yankee manager, as far as post-season decisionmaking is concerned. When he first started, and was a helluva lot hungrier to win, he had no qualms benching Fielder, Boggs, Tino, O’Neill, etc., if matchups didn’t work for him.
It wasn’t about “feelings” then. It was about winning. Now, it seems to me, its more about “feelings”.
He also had no problem lifting starters early if they stunk the joint out, ie: Kenny Rogers in ‘96. Hell, he pulled Denny Naegle for an injured David Cone, when Naegle was one out away from a win in the 200o WS.
Now, its the same, tired, “he’s a veteran” stuff. You see much less managing for the situation and much more conservative work.
Why? No idea. Maybe this group of players are too sensitive to benchings. Just a guess on my part. However, if you look at how he approached post-season games from ‘96-2001, and how he approaches them now, its like its two different managers.
Perhaps, its why the results are so different these days.
I prefer to see him go back to his earlier, hungrier days. It wasn’t about feelings, it was about winning.
He might as well give it a shot. Can’t be any worse than its been going for him now the past 4 post-seasons.
Sorry, I meant Best of 5 series.
He thinks Game 2 is more important than Game 1.
Plus SJ you don’t think Torre should be the mananger no matter what he does or what he thinks.
All this talk about Torre caring too much about egos. What about last year when he batted A. Rod 8th? You were probably the first to kill him for that while at the same time killing him this year for caring too much about players egos.
Which one is it?
Bottom line is managing this team, in this town is a no win situation.
All you can do is what you think is best and hope that you are right.
Easiest question I’ve seen. Melky has to play. Unless you want to put Damon in CF and Sardinha in LF, he’s playing. Matsui provides no defensive value as the DH, and he can’t hit. Bench him and play Giambi.
Not true, jonathan. I have already posted that, if they win this series, he should be back as manager. If they don’t, he should be gone.
They have to show improvement from last year. Getting to the ALCS is improvement. If he wins this series I have no problem with him returning.
I have a big problem with him returning if they lose this series.
I killed him for the Arod move last year because it was the wrong move to make in the biggest game of the year. It was especially foolish seeing that he never TOLD Arod about it. A departure in the way he handled these decisions in the past. The move was made to appease Gary Sheffield and to keep him in the lineup. How did that work out and what had Sheffield ever done in the post-season to deserve such “trust” from Torre?
Every manager all over baseball gets second guessed for moves. Let’s not make it out to be NY thing.
Most managers would have gotten fired after the ‘04 choke job. Torre did not.
Most managers are fired after going 3-10 in the last three post-seasons. Torre did not.
He is the second most tenured manager in the game, behind Bobby Cox.
Now, he is on the line here, if the reports are accurate. He has to get the team out of the first round of the playoffs. If he can’t do that, explain to me why he should continue as manager? At some point, don’t you have to win post-season series? Its not 2000 anymore.
There are a lot of managers who can get the Yankees to the playoffs. Let’s not act like this is the little engine that could. They have a TON of talent on this team and unlimited resources.
How do you think guys like Jim Leyland or Tony LaRussa would do with a team that has unlimited resources?
Joe Torre has more resources available to him as manager of the Yankees than anybody in the game. Question is, does he get the most out of them?
Tell me when its become “acceptable” to be the manager of the Yankees and be 3-11 in your last 14 playoff games?
At some point, he has to win another post-season series. If he can’t, I see no reason why he should be back next year to lose again. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
again, most of you guys are lost
matsui has been bad for weeks now, so to say “he had his knee drained, lets give him some time� is WACK
his bat is slow, his front side is way out and hes pulling everything…
secondly, those who say last nights loss was bout CC being a cy young pitcher and that he handled us last night, please go home and turn out the lights! he stunk last night and along with Matsui, Posada killed us with his ugly right handed k’s…
lastly, dont know what has taken you all so long to realize this but Wang IS NOT A #1 OR #2 IN THIS LEAGUE…at best he is a 3 and stinks on the road…you lay off the sinker, he becomes a BP pitcher with mediocre stuff
13 straight post-season appearances.
4 World Championships, in an era where nobody has repeated accept the Yankees.
Yes 3-11 is a little hard to swallow, but this series is not over.
And losing next year…how can you even talk about losing next year when this year is not over? Sounds a little bit like fatalism to me.
Players have to play…Torre is not responsible for Posada striking out in the 5th. He’s not responsible for Wang being atrocious.
Torre has been at the helm of this team during some of it’s greatest years. To look at his this difficult stretch and judge him on this, and this alone, is not fair.
Yankee Fans
The problem is Saint Joe — I know eveyone wants to give him credit for not panicking but he was a large part of the reason the Yankees were so far behind — I know some Blogs assign him 8, 9, 10 losses but he was responsible for as many as 20 by making poor lineup and poor in game choices. His choices agaimns the Rockies and the Dbacks alone killed the momentum and cost the AL Flag – prior to the All Star break
Over a full season the Yankees got into the playoffs — Now in a short series we can’t have porr choices.
Wang strating game 1 on the road
Matsui in the lineup — all players have streaks – some the highs and low are wide; some like Matsui slighly disguised — but what he has done over the last 8 weeks is more important than this season or past seasons — ad this streak is not disguised at all —
Cabrera has to play for DEFENSE but he has to do something at the plate — but you can’t sit him for Matsui as bad as he has been going.
Using Hughes last night was stupid — he has been better the last month than Mussina and there is no certainly about Clemens.
Still — if the picthers can contain the Tribe to 3 runs over 7 innings the Yanks should win — when was the last game one of our picthers held a good team to 2 Runs – so as stated a week ago we need a lineup that can slug its way through
and that requires Posada – “not try to do too much” – the mantra for the season — Jeter has to at least move a runner
and Arod has to get a chance to hit — I promise you that if they walk him for 2 games he will be overswinging for the next 3 games trying TOO HARD -head case again- fans and press have been on him way too much for him to stay relaxed
He needs a threat behind him — it is a prayer that with as bad a Sept as Matsui that Giambi can step up — but at least he stays in the box and battles
So yeah I like Pete’s lineup and I hope Andy has the best start of the year in him and nnot one of his last two