Wrapping it up from Jacobs Field
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 06, 2007 
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No audio tonight. There were so many people in the clubhouse that getting any clean tape was impossible.
Not much to say, anyway. The Yankees haven’t hit. You can’t win many games with one run. It’s the entire team. Just when it looked like they could win 1-0, the bugs literally got in the way.
If this season ends Sunday, that’s the end of Joe Torre and probably the end of Alex Rodriguez in pinstripes as well. He’ll take his MVP and look for a clean start.
That could also mean Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera walk, too. Do not underestimate their loyalty to Torre. Think the Mets might want Posada?
Ron Guidry walks without Torre in charge. So might Larry Bowa and Tony Pena. By Monday morning, we could be looking at the start of massive changes.
Here’s the transcipt of Joe Torre’s postgame press conference:
Question: Joe, tonight Carmona, can you just talk about how he neutralized you guys and the struggles as a team you’re having at the plate and with A-Rod continuing to struggle?
JT: Well, A-Rod, he’s not the only one, with three hits tonight you can’t really put it on A-Rod. We just really didn’t get anything going. Normally we’re very good at manufacturing stuff. And we just were shut down. Carmona was terrific. His pitch count was great early on. He just commanded everything. He left a breaking ball up to Melky and he hit the home run. Aside from that, we had the Jeter at second base with one out. But that’s really all the threatening that we did.
They had done a great job coming out of that bullpen, and we’re just going to have to find a way on Sunday.
Question: Do you feel like the bugs affected Joba?
JT: They did but there’s not much you can do about it. He was having trouble seeing out there. I’ll tell you one thing about the kid, he never lost his composure, which is something that obviously was unusual and certainly didn’t panic in any way. Unfortunately, it was at a bad time.
Question: Is the message after a game like tonight going forward to Sunday the same as it was all season since you’ve kind of had to fight back?
JT: Yeah, we just can’t — I think this is what you’re asking. We have to go out there and I know we have to win three games, but we have to think about winning one. And that’s really where we’re going right now and there’s probably nobody better to pick us up than Roger. And we expect him to pitch a game like Andy, who was great.
Question: Do you recall anything like that, the bugs coming in for one inning like that and what was the explanation and did anybody have an idea?
JT: The heat. You could see them when you looked. It was like blankets of stuff out there. And they just came and they were still out there, but not as heavy as they were in that 8th inning.
Question: I know it’s a little early, but with eight hits here, would you consider any lineup changes for Sunday?
JT: Not really. We’ll see the tape tomorrow, figure it out and right now I’m not thinking about Sunday. I’ll do that tomorrow.
Question: You mentioned Andy. I don’t have a question, but I’d assume you’d like to say something about how he pitched tonight?
JT: About as courageous a Game as he’s had. It was really reminiscent of Game 5 in ’96 to me, about the 4th inning on, I said one run is going to have to be enough looks like. Because Carmona was so dominant. And I’ll be damned if it almost wasn’t good enough. But he was something especially when Grady was on third base and nobody out, coming through the middle of the batting order.
Question: Six years ago you had a team that faced a similar mountain to climb. Can you conjure anything in that memory at all to try and offer advice?
JT: The only thing a little bit different there was we were going on the road, we lost two at home. We are going home and the only thing we can do is win one game at a time. I know it’s trite and you’ve heard this stuff before, but that’s where we are and that’s what we need to do. And we can’t really worry about Monday or Wednesday until we get one under our belt. So it’s the only way I’m trying to — the message, my message is only going to be let’s just try to get one and try and change the momentum.
Question: I know it’s a bizarre thing what happened in the 8th. But do you have any recourse there? Can you ask them to delay the game? Did you ask them to delay the game?
JT: I just wanted to make sure that he could pitch. I said, he’s not able to see and stuff. And I’m not sure, I think it’s like anything else, I guess it’s like a muddy field and stuff. The umpires feel that something had to be done, but I don’t — I really don’t know what to tell you, because I’ve never seen anything like that before, especially all of a sudden coming on the scene like that.
Question: But you didn’t ask them to actually delay the game, did you?
JT: No. The only thing we wanted to do was make sure the kid was all right and was able to see. I said that’s the biggest problem.
Question: These two games, how would you summarize, what’s been the difference why Cleveland’s up 2-0 as opposed to 1-1 or you 2-0?
JT: They managed to pitch better than we have. You hate to say it in a 2-1 game. But that’s what it came down to. They came out of that bullpen. And Carmona went out there and pitched nine innings and pitched his tail off. And we haven’t been able to break through. We’re pretty proud of our offense. But right now we’re looking to score some runs, get some hits. Three hits tonight, that’s not a great threat. If it wasn’t for the home run, we wouldn’t have had that.
Question: Considering that Giambi is 9-for-17 against the Indians, would you like him to get more involved in the next couple of games?
JT: We’re going to look at it. I haven’t thought about the future right now. Tomorrow we’ll work out, we’ll try to get our thoughts organized.
we need a huge game from EVERYBODY on Sunday, or I agree with Pete…many changes will be coming that I, for one, will not like.
Wow Pete. I haven’t even thought of all of the dominoes that could fall. Even with the loss, I am proud of Andy Pettitte. That performance was vintage Andy.
I was in tears after the loss not because the Yankees lost, but because Pettitte was so amazing.
They should not have lost this game.
Andy, I know you probably will never see this, but the performance you gave tonight?
That’s why I watch. That’s why I’m a fan.
With all due respect sir, I believe this is going to be our finest hour.
even if we lose sunday this is not Joe’s fault. firing joe is not worth it, if it means that Mo, Alex, Jorge and Andy will walk and we’ll have a very unhappy jeter.
without those guys we may find ourselves not having a chance at the postseason next year.
i go to bat for torre all the time, and i think the criticisms of him are generally overblown. that said, i just don’t get why he didn’t ask mo to get that last out in the 8th and then pitch the 9th. i love joba but a) he was visibly struggling and b) i don’t care who it is out there, mariano is the best of all time. i find it strange because joe has never not gone to mo when he needs 4 outs in a must-win situation like that. its even more of a no-brainer if you know you are going to ask mo for 2 innings if the game gets tied. and im not second guessing either: i said it at the time and i stand by it. 2 outs in the 8th, tieing runner on third: mo was born for that situation and i think you have to answer for it if you don’t put him in and it doesn’t work out.
Let ‘em all walk, I don’t care anymore.
We ain’t winning with them and haven’t for 6 years now. Something is fundamentally wrong with this team and the only way to fix it is to remake it. You don’t get off to slow starts every year, force yourself to dig out and then limp in and out of the playoffs and still consider yourself a championship caliber team. We make the playoffs each year because we beat the dregs of the league and that’s the only reason.
WOW Pete you are really negative tonight. If the season ends Sunday or in 2 days after that why do you have the whole team leaving? Today they were here but Sunday they are gone. Doesnt make much sense. If Torre wasnt fired after 04-06 why would he be fired now? So now because of 2 losses Arod is leaving…Where exactly is Arod going to go??!! There is no team that can afford him and his $30m like the Yanks can.
Way to give up after 2 games.
that’s about the worst post i’ve ever read.
i’m about as low as i’ve been as a fan since 04.
Mo and Posada aren’t going to leave because Torre does. They have loyalty to Torre — but don’t you think they have loyalty to the Yankees too? You think Posada wants to leave Jeter and go play for the Mets (when the Yanks are making a better or similar offer)? You think Mo wants to go start over with another team after having a HoF career here? Mo is an untouchable God in N.Y. He has zero reason to leave — if Torre is here or not.
The result of this series has nothing to with whether or not A-Rod will opt out or not. He was probably going to anyway.
Guidry — he can leave if Torre returns or not. Nice guy, great pitcher, but he seems useless as a pitching coach. They need more than an ass-patter with all the kids on the staff.
Everyone says that Uncle Joe is great with the players, so next year make him the team therapist so they dont have to completely get rid of him and get a manager who knows a thing about managing a bullpen.
Change is not something to be frightened of.
I am more afraid of the status quo and excuse making than change.
Change is EXACTLY what this team needs. We have seen what the young pitchers have given this team. Now, its time to take it to the next step.
I guess they could bring everybody back but, what’s the point? This team can’t win post-season series. There is no reason to bring them back in full.
At some point, you have to re-tool this team.
Unless all fans want are post-season appearances, and not post-season wins, there will be changes. Its the way it goes in sports.
You can’t commit 300+ million dollars to a guy who can’t get a single hit in the post-season. Just can’t do it.
Torre? 3-12 in this last 15 post-season. He can’t just be the manager for the wins and not for the losses.
7 million dollars a year for playoff futility? That’s a lot of coin.
Re-tool it, get back to more contact, fundamental, pitching-first baseball, and go from there. We have had enough of the “all stars at every position, playoff underachievers” we have seen the last 4 years.
Change will make this team better. Status quo will make it worse. I vote for change.
Peter
How come nobody asked Joe why they didn’t intentionally put Victor Martinez on in the 8th inning. I know the bugs were a problem, but it was obvious from the start that they wanted nothing to do with him. Nothing. I think you are always flirting with trouble when you are willing to walk a guy but nibble instead of just putting him on.
As someone has mentioned, last year it was the rainout, this year it’s the bugs, *GOD DOES NOT WANT THE YANKEES TO WIN IN THE POSTSEASON*. There’s nothing Torre, A-Rod, Jeter, or even Big Stein can do about that.
Joe didn’t do anything wrong in this game.. The bugs got the best of The Hut and thats it. No Bugs = Joba shuts them down, hands it to Mo, 1-1. We faced to huge pitchers and we couldn’t come up with anything. I think the yankees will take it back to cleveland. Scratch that – I KNOW we will.
Posada, Mo, Bowa, Pena – if they leave, I’ll be very upset. I love Joe at times, but he makes me scratch my head.
Pete – I would say you are panicking! Get some sleep.
chrisc ….I totally agree with you…
captains corner-
its not a question whether torre will be fired, it’s whether he will be rehired. his contract concludes at the end of the year.
Sorry Pete, we all appreciate the information you provide on this blog. But this is the worst post I’ve ever seen.
Call it realism if you want. It’s crap.
Paging Tony LaRussa, Paging Tony La Russa- The Next Yankee Manager?
how can you say joe didn’t do anything wrong? how can you not ask mariano for four outs there? he does that, the yankees win. he didnt, and they didnt.
“JT: We’re going to look at it. I haven’t thought about the future right now. Tomorrow we’ll work out, we’ll try to get our thoughts organized.”
OK, I know I said I was signing off but I can’t let this pass. JT is speaking the truth here, but he really should have been thinking about the future (ie how do we win a game here) before the day off after the first two games of a 5-game series.
I wish that Larry Bowa would stick around. I don’t want him as the manager, but he doesn’t sugarcoat anything. Every team needs a coach with the will and intensity of Larry. He tells the players exactly what he’s thinking and isn’t afraid to use tough love. Larry knows this game backwards and forwards and he stands up for the team. Remember when the Blue Jays were getting on A-Rod in the “Ha!” game, Bowa got up in John Gibbons’s face and gave Gibbons a piece of his mind!!
The way I see it, I knew after Sunday someone was going to be up 2 games to 1. Thought it would be us, but it’ll be them. Still won’t change anything.
This thing is going 5. This is not last year’s team or any other year’s team. This team has a lot more pride and they will deliver.
I have faith. I’ll be there at the games Sunday and Monday and I can’t wait to see how they pull it out.
I was ready to give up on this team in May and they proved me wrong. I’m not ready to give up now.
I don’t think players are stupid. They go where the money is.
If the Yankees ante up, Rivera and Posada return. If not, I doubt the franchise is going to go out of business.
Its the problem with all this, “You have to bring back Torre no matter what” talk, it makes no sense.
This team is 3-12 in its last 15 post-season games and are one more loss away from getting bounced for the third straight year in the first round.
Why, exactly should there NOT be changes? That doesn’t make any sense to me.
Does anybody really believe the Yankees will be unable to attract players and a new manager? Not me.
Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan are out there. Do you think they would LOVE to have a team with these resources, and this much good, young pitching, to work with?
Don’t kid yourself. Players and mangerial candidates still would KILL to be with this team.
Yo Peter,
Money talks. Just remember.
A-Rod, Mo, and Po stay even if Torre isn’t brought back, and quite frankly, he shouldn’t be.
I also assure you that the Yankees will win this series.
SJ44 …I’ll vote for change if they lose another game to Cleveland. Until then, this team has shown they can turn it on when they are TOTALLY against the wall. On May 29th, at 21-29 and 14.5 games back of Bstn, TOTALLY against the wall and down 0-2 facing 3 elimination games in a row…same story. That’s why I love baseball. We have at least one set of 27 outs to get back in this. We may stink now ( I mean we DO stink now ) but we could be cookin’ with oil come Sunday. Ya never know.
Paulie- I’m practically begging, PLEASE no Tony LaRussa!! Tony always comes up with off-the-wall strategies during the games, overmanages, and tries to show everyone what a genius he is. He obviously is not a genius.
I would be alright with Posada leaving. I think it would be a mistake to give him 36 million and 3 more years with no plan B.
LaRussa did pretty well with an 83 win team last year, didn’t he?
I’d say his post-season work last year was the best of any manager since Torre in ’96.
The guy is a GREAT manager. He also brings the best pitching coach in baseball with him.
I’d love to see what Dave Duncan would do with our young pitchers.
Its time for change. Too much losing associated with this franchise now. Its time to move forward and stop living in the past.
The Yankees aren’t giving Arod this kind of money if he opts out. If he can’t hit in the post-season, what’s the point?
Sometimes, you have to take a step back to go forward. Its that time for the Yankees.
LaRussa did pretty well with an 83 win team last year, didn’t he?
I’d say his post-season work last year was the best of any manager since Torre in ’96.
The guy is a GREAT manager. He also brings the best pitching coach in baseball with him.
I’d love to see what Dave Duncan would do with our young pitchers.
Its time for change. Too much losing associated with this franchise now. Its time to move forward and stop living in the past.
The Yankees aren’t giving Arod this kind of money if he opts out. If he can’t hit in the post-season, what’s the point?
Sometimes, you have to take a step back to go forward. Its that time for the Yankees.
Yes, by all means, let’s be open to change. You know, like putting some young players in the field (done) or adding some young arms to the staff (also done). But let’s not be thinwitted and allow juvenile negativity to be our guiding light when it comes to the team’s future.
Particularly as the only future that matters right now starts Sunday night. Full stop.
Nice post up at Was Watching. Eddie Murray? 29 at bats post season hitless streak. David Justice? 26. How about Gil Hodges? 21 at bats. Just sayin’.
_If this season ends Sunday, that’s the end of Joe Torre and probably the end of Alex Rodriguez in pinstripes as well. He’ll take his MVP and look for a clean start._
Will he go to the Cubs, who knows? They have boo-birds, mass media, too.
Sorry for the double post.
And btw, just for the record? I thought Joe should’ve been fired after last year’s post season. There were solid arguments for it then. There will be more if the team fails this year.
J-Dawg – Well, if not Tony LaRussa, how about Jim Tracy?? I just think LaRussa and Duncan with the pitching staff developing, would be the optimal path. I would love the idea of seeing Hughes, Joba and Ian becoming the BIG THREE.
Of course, come Sunday night, we’ll all be posting about the win. They will win Sunday night, that much I know.
Are Eddie Murray and David Justice asking for 300 million bucks?
Don’t both guys also have rings and have been solid post-season performers, ie, won post-season games, in the past?
Just sayin’…….
Excuses, excuses. You want the money, you gotta hit in the post-season. Its part of the deal. At this point, we would take ONE hit. If you don’t hit, its hard to expect the Yankees to ante up. Just the way it goes.
Sorry SJ44, I can’t see the yankees going down to the likes of Weststink and Byrd the soft tosser. The Yankees offense woes are due to the outstanding good pitching by Cleveland. I am going to say this series will be decided in game 5.
Pettitte was amazing. Wow, did he battle! Too bad the real story seems to be that A-Rod went 0 for 4.
@ Peter: What´s the reason you post at bat for at bat how awful Alex´ streak is. After he made the 1st out last night you posted that he´s now 4 for 48 and 0 for 14 or so. NO, he´s 0-1. And again after his 2nd at bat. I really don´t see the point.
I really cannot blame A-Rod for our collective not-hitting. We managed to get 3 hits or so, right? That´s how awesome Carmona was, we didn´t have much of a chance today after it was tied up.
To win this series now we have to go with Clemens and Wang followed by Pettitte in game 5. That´s the only way we still have a chance. And I honestly believe we still have a chance to make it.
If we lose this series I hope A-Rod decides to opt out. People (especially reporters) always want him to fail, probably because it makes good stories.
For the team he really needs to stay, but for him personally it would be better to go to the Dodgers or something (if we lose that is).
Outstanding pitching? your joking right… at least the indians had runners in scoring position every inning..
More thinwittery. And you’ve yet to come up with a single way the team will make up for the lost RBI and HRs. I’ll give you another chance. Whom would you like to see at third base next year? Where will you make up for the loss in run production.
But hey, keep it up and maybe you’ll manage to turn back the clock to the halcyon days of Dave Collins and Omar Moreno. Contact! Speed!
Joe Torre gets blasted on here for some of his bullpen decisions. Tony LaRussa’s bullpen management is sometimes comical. He overuses pitchers and obsesses to have lefties facing lefties and righties facing righties. Tony rubs the media and some of his players the wrong way. He got into it with Scott Rolen last year, and Juan Encarnacion this year, before Juan’s devastating eye injury. I don’t want the headache of those internal conflicts. And before you question what I know about the Cardinals, I live a few hours away from St. Louis, and the Cardinals are ALWAYS on down here. I do watch the games. I find it hard to call him a good manager when he only won 1 World Series with all of the talent around him in Oakland. They had hitting, pitching, baserunning, fielding, they could do it all. They also had Tony LaRussa as manager.
By the way Pettite pitched better than anyone so far this postseason.. carmona was good, definitely not great
Yeah, I used to think the same thing. Then I watched this same group go out without a whimper to Kenny Rogers last year, a worse post-season performer than Arod.
Its “show me” time with this team. Its all great to talk it but, they don’t walk it in the post-season.
Until they hit, I just assume they won’t. Haven’t seen anything the last 3 years to make me feel differently about this group. Whatever the reasons/excuses, etc, they can’t hit in the post-season.
Hopefully, it changes in NY but, that’s blind hope. I see nothing from any of these guys that make me think it changes.
We aren’t out of the playoffs and we’re already speculating what will happen when the season ends. Go figure!!
Why would anyone make excuses to be in the position we currently are?? It bogles my mind.. “we have been against the wall since day one.” thats exactly the problem
God damnit. Manny with a walk-off HR.
Suddenly, I don’t hate the Angels that much now. I feel their pain…
Nice show boating job by Manny Ramirez
SJ you shot yourself in the foot.
Larussa has two rings. At the same time, his Oakland A’s teams failed _to hit_ twice in World Series.
And then there are his White Sox years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_La_Russa
Both are good coaches, but they are also thin skinned. I’m sure you saw the clip early in the year when he started yelling at a Chicago reporter, to the point where the report got out of his chair and physcially challenged Tony, who then backed off.
*sigh* Apparently Manny Ramirez can hit in post-season.
SJ-
Do you seriously think LaRussa is a great option because they got lucky/hot at the right time last year? And I did a little reserach and found that magic Post Seaspn Offense recipe. It is, indeed based on great pitching, a few timely hits, and a whole lot of luck. In the Yankees last 4 WS championships, plus the one that shoulda been in 2001, here is their team line for the World Series(BA/OBP/SLG).
96- .216/.310/.286
98- .309/.398/.475
99- .270/.333/.416
00- .263/.357/.408
01- .264/.325/.394
That is one great performance, one good, one awful, and 3 mediocre.
What´s too bad about this game is that it will not be remembered for its great pitching, but for the bugs that bugged Joba in the 8th. It really was a great game for 7,5 innings, and I´m not saying that because we lost, you just hate to see external factors have an impact on a game like it had.
Pete,
Appreciate the extra effort in typing out the text of the interview.
Man, this is a unbelievable. Did ANYONE really believe their pitchers would totally shut down our offense?
Paulie- This is a copout from me, I really don’t know who should manage if Joe is gone. It’s easy to say Girardi, but I just don’t know. The only thing that I am sure about is that LaRussa would be a poor fit. Just my opinion, it doesn’t hurt my feelings at all for anyone to disagree. Trust me.
As much as I hate Boston the Angels are a close second and now the Angels know what it feels like to be owned by a team.
This is definitely not over. I have absolutely confidence that we’ll win on Sunday. We’ll rock whatever scrub pitcher they throw at us (Westbrook). The game after that’s key though – it’ll probably be Sabathia again.
Immediate solution- the Yankees come back to win this series and JOE TORRE manages next year. That is perfectly fine with me!!
Well, losing Ron Guidry honestly wouldn’t be a big loss.
Girardi, simply because the Yankees are transitioning to a younger team and he has experience with that.
They need a fresh face.
Why do you think they need to find a third baseman his run production?
Just spread it around. They could sign Lowell or Joe Crede, they could make a trade, they could do a lot of things.
They can change the way the team attacks pitchers.
How many titles did they win WITHOUT Arod? Did they find a way to win those games or were they just awarded them?
Do you really think they are sunk without Arod?
How many rings does Arod have in his career? How many teams has he made BETTER?
Don’t you think these are legitimate questions you ask before coming up with 300+ million bucks?
If he puts up another 0-fer Sunday night and they lose, do you think it gets EASIER for him next year in the post-season?
He will NEVER have another year like this again and yet it still doesn’t translate to post-season success.
If you think the Yankees can’t win without Arod, how, praytell did they do it in the past?
It’s funny but everyone seems to be exactly at the same place as last year when it was certain that ARod had to be traded. There was not doubt – he just had to be dumped.
For the last 162 games how many times have people said all across new york, “thank goodness we didn’t trade him.”
Everyone wanted him traded last off season. Everyone was relieved he wasn’t traded when he carried the team all season. Now after two games the cycle is complete and ARod has to go again.
That’s just irrational.
It’s surprising why the focus seems to be so much on next year. Who cares. There is a series being played. They haven’t lost. Are there chances good right now to pull this out? No, not at all. But the series is not over and there is plenty of time to argue about the composition of the team next year.
What’s changed for this team since the last run of world series is exactly this attitude of everyone in new york – the organization, the players, the media, the fans – it’s this idea that everything is a failure unless we win the world series. It’s now to such a point that the ends have obliterated the importance of the means.
The games mean nothing, only their results. You see it in every yankees post season team – they are so tight, and so wound up they play not to lose. They’re too tight to hit. That’s it.
This attitude is so bad now amongst Yankee fans tha it’s fine to ignore the rest of the 2007 post season, throw in the towel and start worrying about next year.
Sunday’s game is the biggest of the year. Case close. There’s no argument about that. If people want to just blow it off to get the hot stove started early, well that’s just sad. This will be a very long winter of transition regardless of what happens. We’ll have plenty of time to debate what should happen to torre, player moves, etc.
If only it were that easy
You can add Andy Pettite to the list if Joe is not brought back. Remember he is the one with the option and I dont see him coming back without Torre no matter how much he likes Jeter.
I still have hope for the rest of the series it will be a tough row to hough but keep the faith. I will be there Sunday with all the postive energy I can bring. Worst case scenario I will be seeing Rogers last game ever as there is no doubt in my mind he for sure wont be back pitching next year I think this year has shown him that is pretty much it.
J-Dawg–Veintisiete en ’07
don’t forget how Tony unnecessarily got into it with his best player, Pujols, at the all-star game.
“How many rings does Arod have in his career? How many teams has he made BETTER?”
Uh, every team he has been on. Not the least of which is the 2007 Yankees which would have won about 10 games fewer and missed the post season entirely if they had Joe Crede.
It seems some of you need coffee and a danish for your crankiness-it’s not over yet. Yes, it’s an unfortunate fact that it’s an 0-2 situation, but they won’t let Cleveland mess with their minds, ESPECIALLY not back in NY. The Yankees need a team meeting, a prayer meeting, another BBQ if needed, but whatever they do, they need to have a crystal clear mind and only focus on winning on Sunday. Keep the faith people, GO YANKS!
J-Dawg–veintsiete en ’07
La russa also is a drunk and hoards “roiders” like a magnet.
My family lives in St Louis. They say he will call out players in the media.St louis Hates him.We could benefit from his pitching coach,he’s great and is Shelly’s Dad.
Dave
The Cardinals absolutely collapsed this year. It was a pathetic, embarrassing showing by them. Even the guys on their team feel so.
What was LaRussa’s answer to this as the team was burning? I’ll let everyone know what a genius I am and I’ll hit the pitcher 8th instead of 9th.
That’s like Nero fiddling while Rome is burning. Genius.
Who cares if LaRussa is short with the media?
Now, the manager has to be friends with the media in order to succeed? Please.
The guy is going to the HOF as a manager. He’s pretty damn good.
I am not saying he should be the guy but, they could do a helluva lot worse if they make a change.
Has LaRussa ever managed a team with this much financial clout? Nope.
Don’t kid yourself, it makes a difference. Managers would KILL to manage the Yankees because of their ability to spend what it takes to field a good team every year.
Mr. Met- Pujols too, you’re absolutely right.
If Pettitte wants to leave because Torre isn’t rehired, let him. The same goes for every other player on the roster.
I’ll be $100 that they will all be back even if Torre is let go, as he should be.
be = bet
Let’s worry about next year next year.
Let’s win this year first.
Whining, excuses, losers, Yankees.
Whatever happens, will happen.. At this point it isn’t working..
Manny > Arod
Night and Day
Who’s whining?
The Yankees lost two ROAD games. So what?
They will the next to HOME games.
Then Game 5 is nutcracker time.
If Torre, Bowa and Pena walk now, who would miss them? Not me. Torre hasn’t done anything lately and Pena and Bowa have accomplished nothing. Good riddnace. Give me Girardi and some enthusiasm. The only players who can hold their heads high are Pettitte, Rivera. Getting unnevered by a few flies is ludicrous. I used to hold Joba in high regard. As far as ARod he has proven time and time again he is worthless when it counts. Can’t blame all the offensive woes on him, but a base hit every now and then would be nice too.
Yes, I did think Carmona and Sabathina would shut doen the offense. ITs not very surprising. Good pitching beats good hitting 100% of the time, anf the Yankees were outpitched. Will Westbrook and Byrd shut down the Yankees? No, but Mussina wont shut down the Indians either. And really, with game 5 in cleveland, does it matter now anyway what Westbrook and Byrd do?
Joe Crede? Lord above. I rest my case. And frankly, Chris is right. There’s plenty of time to talk about next season. Right now, Sunday’s game is all that matters. We can talk about your masterplan — which at the moment appears to be replacing A-Rod with Joe Crede — at a later, more appropriate date.
I still have faith. There have been many teams who were down 0-2 and went on to win the World Series eventually.
Here’s to Sunday! I’ll start thinking about new managers, new pitching coaches and new 3rd basemen when I see the Yankees eliminated from the post-season. It’s not happen on Sunday night.
CB, what do you expect? This team, which is almost the same lineup for the past three years, cannot get it done in the playoffs…I was speaking with my friend, who is a die-hard mets fan, and I came to the conclusion that its better to not even make it to the playoffs if you are going to crap out like this… I cannot stand when people say, “well they are facing top-of-the line pitchers”..what did you expect in the playoffs, daniel cabrera? Lets all be honest with ourselves, whether the yankees win our lose this series, something has to change
Johnny my point exactly.. whats the point of making it to the playoffs if you are going to record this type of performance… makes no sense..
Gayle- I sure hope it isn’t Roger’s last game. I’m not ready to see him exit the stage yet. He will be primed and ready for battle. I look forward to seeing the Rocket’s red glare!!
Manny’s walk off = adding insult to injury. I’m fearing a looooong winter, folks.
If they lose Sunday, Torre walks. A-Rod walks. Mo and Po walk. Pettitte walks. Guidry walks. Jeter walks. Cano and Melky walk together. Abreu walks. Tyler Clippard walks. Nardi Contreras walks. Scooter the Squirrel walks. George Steinbrenner walks. Bob Shepherd walks. The guy that takes your ticket outside of the right field bleachers walks. The peanut salesmen all walk. The guys building the new stadium walk. Tyler Kepner walks. LeBron James walks. Spike Lee walks. Babe Ruth walks. Etc. etc.
OMG, better not lose then!
A-rod, Posada, Matsui, Jeter et al….ALL SUCK
nobody can hit everyone trying to hit home runs to win the game, this is sickening to watch. we have about 3 players who actually put a 100% full effort in to each game.
F THIS TEAM!!!!
see how far this team gets next year with out Andy, A-rod, Jorge and Mo.
It won’t be to the post season. we need to spend the offseason strengthening the bullpen, not signing/trading for a new closer, 3rd baseman, catcher and starter because they walked after Joe was fired.
It was a stretch to make the post season this year.. The competition only gets better..
Who’s whining???? Every other comment here is about how the “bugs” favored the Indians. Loser talk, from losers.
Keep repeating the lie.
A-Rod, Mo, Po and Pettitte are going NOWHWERE. Torre is IRRELEVANT. Jeez, what’s wrong with you people?
BR, if we dont make the postseason after losing A-rod(which we will, especially if he doesn’t even get a hit this postseason), Jorge and Mo, then so be it..they are obviously not helping our cause now(especially posada).
WHAT AN AWESOME END TO AN AWESOME NIGHT. NOT ONLY DOES MANNY AND THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL DO THEIR THING AT FENWAY AND ARE UP 2-0. PETE’S TALKING ABOUT EVERY YANKEE WALKING AT THE END OF SUNDAY!
IT IS TRULY THE END FOR THE YANKEES AND THE OVERPAID BUNCH OF HAS BEENS!!!!!!
Bugs? That’s about venting. There’s a difference.
However:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
1. Plenty of major league games with far less on the line have been stopped due to bug infestations. I can’t believe both the Yankees and Indians didn’t argue for a stoppage of play Friday night, but especially New York, when it was obvious that reliever Joba Chamberlain was severely compromised by those conditions. It was no different than playing a game in a deluge. Cleveland’s pitching was fabulous, but the Yankees must live with knowing that insects helped cause their defeat. No way that should happen in postseason baseball.
Funny, the Indians had no trouble pitching scoreless innings.. Do you thing they practice spring training with gnats on their face???
I never said that being good with the media was a prerequisite to being a successful manager.
Can everyone stop complaining about the “Bugs”??? do you think it affected joba more than it affected carmona and perez? Please, stop making excuses….I hate to tell you this, but there is no santa claus.
If Matsuzaka was a Yankee, he would be called the biggest bust in the history of Western Civ.
No easter bunny either..
….or tooth fairy.
Jorge and Mo are irreplaceable at this point.
be careful what you wish for guys, you might get some changes that your not going to like.
or reggie jacksons!!!!
Apparently the Indians pitch much better when the big dipper is in sight..
BR
Give it up. You’re dealing in fantasy.
baseball and life is a funny game.
At the end of 2003, the Theo tried to unload Manny and high salary to the Yanks and tired to trade for ARod. The Yanks declined, even though Manny hits the hell out of the ball in Yankee Stadium and traded for ARod.
Manny went on to win the 2004 World Series MVP, and tonight, he came through with a BIG hit.
How different things could have been for both teams.
BR, no one is saying posada or mo should leave…However, what good does it do you if you hit 338 in the regular season and don’t record A SINGLE HIT in the postseason..as i said in my previous post…just dont get into the playoffs and we dont have to worry about expectations
Right, b/c manny would have won the game tonight for the yanks
no I realize we wouldn’t even be in the playoffs without A-Rod, Jorge and Andy this year.
it’s just baseball. they don’t know us, and they probally don’t care that we hurt so bad when they lose.
but, to all the red sox trolls: it’s still 26-7 on the scoreboard that matters.
Pettite pitched a nasty game tonight.. what did that get us? A segment on the tonight show with Jay Leno.. get real people
the playoffs mean nothing if you can’t win a game! Don’t get our hopes up!
Tony Larussa sucks. We’ll be back to spending big money on free agent or trading away prospects because doesn’t like to manage kids on his team. He has said it himself. Larussa wears on people. Joe Girardi is a better choice. Not only is he young enough to relate to the prospects that are starting to put their stamp on the team, he has already got max effort out of his players when he won Manager of the Year with Marlins. I can’t believe I’m actually talking about next year. I should be ashamed of myself.
the Indians pitched great, if the yankees stuggle against Westbrook then I’ll complain.
Right now Pettitte is the only one who has shown everyone he wants to win…where is everyone else?
Tony Larussa would not put Matsui in the 5th spot.. I can guarentee you that
So games only matter when the “bad” Indians starters pitch? BR re-read your posts before you hit submit
BR, that is what playoff teams are SUPPOSED to do, pitch and hit great…Stop using that excuse!
Peter Gammons is such a phoney.
He attacked Manny all September, saying Manny was lazy. Now he’s slobbering over him in the locker room.
Imagine what will happen if ARod busts out Sunday, Monday, etc.
Please, can everyone stop using “good pitching” as an excuse…carmona DID not pitch any better than he did when we lit him up in august.
Exactly – Carmona nor Sabathia pitched their perfect game.. stop the good pitching excuse, it is old
Viz loses again-
no, but it’s hard to see the Sox winning 2004 without Manny.
2004 does not equal 2007. He is a good player but the red sox seemed to do pretty well without him..
good pitching stops good hitting, always. we should have won todays game but there was nothing Joe could do about those damn bugs.
anyone else concerned with the lack of magic from this team in the past four postseasons? maybe it is obvious, but i just thought about it tonight watching that other team, that we have not had one dramatic postseason win since game 2 of the 2004 alds against the twins at home. now, i know we haven’t had many wins period. but for a team that had SO many of these types of wins in 96,98-01, and 03, it is just weird now. it just seems like either something bad is going to happen or nothing is going to happen at all. no magic.
Good riddance to Torre and A-Rod!!! If the Yanks somehow/ some way win this series then go all the way to win the World Series, these two can take a walk. The Yanks got a World Series out of them together. Torre can retire and A-Rod can sign with whoever and live a gravy life.
Good riddance to Posada and Rivera if they decide to walk because Torre is gone. The Yankees don’t need an old catcher who probably plateaued this year for another 3 years and a hasbeen closer for another 2 for way more money than they’re worth. They won’t be as good as they were in their prime, so why would/ should the Yanks give them top dollar? When Joba leaves the game and Mo comes in, who wishes Joba was left in there? Who wishes it was Mo then Joba? I do on both counts.
Ramon Castro posted 11 HR and 31 RBI in
mr Met
I hope sure hope Arod “Bust a Move” soon!!!!!
Dude, BR, stop talking about the BUGS!!! Stop making exsues! Carmona and Perez were dealing with the same thing.
Its hilarious how the bugs affected Joba but not Carmona/Perez..
2008:
Ramon Castro/ Jose Molina (Castrolina
C for $4M ($2M each) & 2008 only & Joba closing for $400K.
vs.
An old Posada for 3 more years @ $12M/yr. = $36M & a hasbeen Rivera for 2-3 more years @ minimum $10.5M/yr. (his salary this year) = $22-31.5M
I’ll take Castrolina and Joba for $4.4M, thanks.
Good pitching stops good hitting my butt.
Carmona made mistakes. They weren’t hit.
The Yankees have been TIGHT in the playoffs since 2004, which is when Torre should have been fired.
Neither of their “Aces” pitched perfect games.. In the playoffs thats when you capitalize.. if you can’t, well the rest speaks for itself
difference is that they are use to them, those bugs a regulars at their games. but again the bugs are not Joe’s fault. you guys would have killed him if he pulled Joba, before he gave up that run, for Mo.
Bugs Regulars?? funny how the announcers/umpires went on record to say they have not seen that type of sward EVER
I am as big a fan for Joba than anyone, bottom line is he gave up the tying run…As for Viz, i dare anyone on this board to say they thought he was going to take care of business in this game
The Indians are used to the bugs.. problem solved
Apparently OFF does not work on New York Teams..I just found my business niche
Viz loses again-
if the sox are so good without him, why were you guys whinning through out September??
do you know what your record was without Manny?
I didn’t think so.
Say Hi to Gagne for me.
the Indians MANAGER said on the post game that the bugs are sometimes there on hot nights.
BR, your right, the entire indian staff has a collection of bugs…in fact, to get ready for the playoffs, they had to withstand a bug fest instead of BP.
Mr Met,
Put the crack pipe down, dude.
I know Joba gave up that run, but what does that have to do with Joe?
“…As for Viz, i dare anyone on this board to say they thought he was going to take care of business in this game”
And why is that? Because Torre burnt him out like a bad piece of toast.
Mr Met,
Say hi to Tom Glavine for me
Right, blame the bugs.
Joba choked, Arod being playoff Arod. Good luck with the Angels next year Arod.
If not for Posada, that game would have been even more pathetic for NY.
Time to get the clubs out of the garage yanks…
Sometimes I read this board and I’m embarrassed to be a Yankee fan. The whining reminds me of the sad days I lived among the enemy in RSN. (Sad days In Worcester, Mass.)
Fact is, after a long run of good luck coupled with superior players, we’ve experienced some bad luck, with less than superior players. I knew Sabathia and Carmona were good. Add plagues of locusts, they’re really good. Add inept hitting by “dominant” offenses, they’re World Champion good. We had Jeff Maier. Cleveland has locusts.
I love a good SJ44 post as much as the next guy. But the boo-hoo mentality of this “Sage” is nearly unbearable. SJ, I appreciate your insight on the boys in Trenton. But the negativity is ridiculous. We got beat. Matsui is hurt and old. We faced the two best pitchers in the AL. What was Torre supposed to do? Go up there and not suck for A-Rod? S*it happens. We enjoyed the good for years, now deal with the bad — like some of us have for the 18 years between 1978 and 1996. Ask Red Sox fans what an 18-year wait is like, they’ll laugh.
So it’s down to Sunday. I’ll watch of course. But I’ll be shocked if we come back. But That’s why we watch, no? To be shocked and amazed?
I guess I’m just saying it would be a shame to throw out the second winningest manager in Yankeee history because he couldn’t negotiate the most difficult playoff set-up in modern sports history. Can you imagine Miller Huggins getting run out of town? Fortunately he had the luxury of not having to get through two rounds before the championship series.
Ask the soon-to-be World Champion Rockies how hard it was when they’re the champs in a couple weeks.
Hey SJ, how’s this for the managerial record of your savior, Tony LaRussa:
2375 wins 2070 losses .534 winning percentage (2 WS, 5 pennants)
Here’s Joe’s:
2067 wins 1770 losses .539 winning percentage (4 WS, 6 pennants)
Big upgrade there.
no they are near a lake, the bugs sometimes show up, there players are use to them.
Mr. Met.. as confused as I am with your moniker on this board, I’m not quite sure who “you guys” are.. if you did’nt get the memo im pro yankees i could give 2 F’s about the red sox..all I am saying is the red sox seemed to clinch the division and perform w/o manny
These 1 year wonder teams(Dbacks, Marlins, W.Sox, Cardinals, Tigers, Indians) are there that certian year for a reason…They hit and pitched in the rotation and bullpen all season that is why the Yanks get beat by that team that year. It is really simple. When a team like the Yanks are in the play offs every single year you never know how good they are because they are always there. They won 80% of there games this season because of the offense. Besides the once or twice a week gem from Wang or Pettitte. In the post season pitching wins and the occassional big hit. This team doesnt hit good play off pitching or get the big hit we have seen it with this group for 4 years now. To hit the crap is no problem for them but when a pitcher is decent it doesnt happen for the most part. Plus going into the play offs not having what helped you get there all season in Arod doesnt help either. Then the bullpen is another story, you cant have a 2 man bullpen.
BR are you an exterminator?
“Joba choked,”
You are supercilious butt boy.
wrapping it up from fenway,
how long can your boy ortiz hit before he exceeds the MLB weight limit?
Heard Curtis Granderson and Frank Thomas say on TBS that the swarm is common in Cleveland. They showed footage of the swarm from a game in the 90′s that Frank Thomas played in. Granderson said Off doesn’t work. In the tape, someone even started a fire in the dugout to see if the smoke would get rid of them. Bugs are a home field advantage I never considered.
Apparently Burger King has found their palace in Boston
Right and I am guessing the East River has an automatic repellent agains humidity and sun?
A-Rod will never reach the World Series with whoever he signs with and if he does, his team won’t win.
The Yankees will win a World Series before A-Rod’s team does and that will be proof the Yankees never needed him (along with the four World Series titles they collected for as long as he’s been a ballplayer).
Nothing would be sweeter than the Yankees facing A-Rod in the World Series and beating him/ his team. Then he’ll realize there’s more to life than making the most $$$ you possibily can…and that he can’t come back to the Yankees.
“but, to all the red sox trolls: it’s still 26-7 on the scoreboard that matters.”
Haha, are you 12?
Apparently burger king, mcdonalds, johnny rockets, fudruckers, wendys, popeyes, boston market(no pun intended), checkers, jack in the box, hardeees, in and out burger, found their palace in boston
Apparently, Papi doesn’t have to hit. I don’t know if you guys saw the game tonight, but we’ve got this guy named Ramirez…
Can’t wait to see the Tribe shell Roger. Maybe he’ll do a phone commercial where he’ll tell his wife she was right.
I would pay to see David Ortiz play short stop.. and those dollars would be for humor factor only
wrapping it up,
The yankees may not make it to the ALDS, but I can GUARANTEE your awful pitching and your fat players wont make it past the Indians
Maybe Manny will do a phone commerical about gettin paid to braid his wonderful hair.. or youklis’ beard…
Last time I checked Negril wasn’t anywhere near Boston
Will papelbon still do his river dance with is googles? You blue collar, white trash freaks!
yanks were 4 outs away from winning this game. those flies clearly rattled joba. series is over. this team is a disgrace. fire torre asap.
A squirrel showed up but too bad he wasnt enough for the Yanks. Good thing for the squirrel he didnt show up in Boston or Ortiz might of ate him if he got hungry.
The Yanks should let go of A-Rod and sign Mike Lamb to be the 3B for a year and $4M (he made $2.7M with Houston this year)
for this reason:
Mike Lamb can’t possibly su ck in the postseason as badly as or worse than A-Rod.
B Yanks, whatever you were drinking tonight, hook me up!!!
Ortiz would eat the baseball if it got close enough to his fat mouth
Who’s better historically in the playoffs, Papi or Arod?
lol
Who historically has more rings??
LOL -
Historically,
Who could win the 4th of July Nathans hot dog eating contest, kobayshi or David Ortiz?
Whatever it takes to get you to sleep tonight dude. Those days are over. Deal with it.
wrapping it up, what position does Ortiz play? DH or DE(designated eater) do not count
I saw the frist 6 + innings, listened to the last few.. if you cannot him more you lose.. Peter and armageddon with all the moves are ludicrous.. yeah posada is going to the mets a good young team!!!!!(joke)..anyway Jorge has played like crap in the 1st 2 games.. No position player has done anythign no one>>
Arod get a new start elsewhere , really where? for how much.. everyone always overreacts… Joba does his job it is 1 to 1….
they can win 3 in a row… matusi looks like crap, he is old!!The guy is 32 not 40……
You guys can talk all you want about how fat Ortiz is! Just consider these facts.
For the current playoffs:
Arod is hitting 000
Fat Ortiz is hitting .750
I don’t have to deal with anything.. it took you the flight of the navigator to win a world series..
dude, you know what helps me sleep at night? The fact that David ortiz needs a golf cart to get off the field in between innings…Life is good !!!
Funny how you winners frequent the yankees blog..
Too bad you guys couldn’t catch that plane in ’07.
Ray – If I did’nt have play defense for my team I would hit .750 as well
and SoSH is down, so I came here to gloat. feels good.
Seriously, Sons of Sam Horn ring a bell? Stock up on goggles ladies, don’t let the champagne hit your eyes!!!!!
Fenway – we don’t need to.. we are still wayyy ahead of you.. plus I don’t need to google red sox blogs to get my fix.. so im feeling pretty good right now
Wrapping it up, can the Sox win 19 world series in 15 days???? Ortiz would have to eat a lot of umps to get that done..Best of luck!
this team is a disgrace
News flash – Carls Jr. Is closed for the night – Ortiz might need to fly to mexico to fill those 300 lb pants tomorrow
It just blows my mind how little this offense is producing. I love Alex, but he hasn’t done a thing; Matsui has been horrible (is he hurt?); Jorge–nothing; Robby and Damon – a solo hr each, thank god or we would’ve lost 12-2 and 1-0; DJ nothing except a rip up the middle today, but we left him at 2nd…
to waste a start like Andy’s tonight is just making me physically ill….
I think Giambi has to start game 3…why is he even on the post-season roster if he doesn’t play?
As for the pitching, it’s been fine except for a pretty rare Wanger start and Ohlendorf, who was hung out to dry for the sake of saving the rest of the bullpen…
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Fat Roger has to save our season. Hopefully beinbg back at the Stadium will help.
I think Torre deserves criticism tonight because the bugs clearly rattled Joba, and they clearly were heaviest in the bottom of the 8th. The real infestation only lasted a few minutes. In the postgame, Joe basically said that there was nothing he could do. Well, he could have stalled for time by visiting the mound, talking with coaches, having Joba take a long time between pitches, having Jorge conference a lot. Or, even better, he could have started a raging argument with the umps about delaying the game until the swarm had passed. Even if he didn’t win the argument, it would have taken up valuable time and allowed the swarm to pass. There is no doubt in my mind that, if there were no bugs, the Yanks win 1-0. Joba and Mo are that dominant.
I don’t know if Torre should be fired or not. He deserves a ton of gratitude and respect for what he has done as Yankee manager. But I just don’t think he manages like a guy who has never won a World Series would manage. He’s just not as hungry anymore, and why would he be? He needs to admit to himself that he’s not the same guy he was in 1996.
This team has never been the same since the 2004 massacre — no playoff wins since then — and everyone needs to come to terms with that.
Roger won’t save our season.. a-rod,jeter, posada, should.. as evidence from tonight
johnnybobster=chump
you’d love papi on your team
Not really… Fatty
i honestly expected a lot more from this team in the postseason this year. i have no idea why. blind hope, as sj44 says, i guess. i thought they’d show up with something to prove, with some fire carried over from the emotion they displayed after clinching the playoff spot, whatever.
but, here they are, right back on the verge of their third straight first-round exit.
last night, wang was on “too much rest” (which, oddly enough, didn’t effect carmona, who’s also a sinkerball pitcher). tonight, joba was distracted by the gnats.
firstly, if the kid was such a mess out there, go get mo. he’s only the best closer of all time. two outs, guy on third, joba’s clearly – CLEARLY – having trouble keeping it together. go get mo. how hard is that?
secondly, if the offense hits worth a damn, what joba does out there tonight doesn’t matter. carmona was great. give the kid his due, but this offense is better than that. they’re a hell of a lot better than that.
whatever. at this point, you can HOPE they show up for game three. but based on what we’ve seen for the last three seasons, i don’t have any evidence suggesting they’ll win this series.
but, like i said, i’ll be at game 3. i hope it’s a celebration, not a wake.
if they do lose, then blow it up and start over. what’s the worst that could happen? they MISS the playoffs? fine. what’s the difference between 162 games and 165? not much.
hope to meet some of you at the lakeside tomorrow night (we’re on at 11pm) or at game 3. i’ll be in the right field bleachers behind the bullpen. i’ll be the dude in the yankees cap. see what i did there? hilarious.
fatty papi=david ortiz… I hope you win the biggest loser this year..YOU CAN DOOO IT
Viz loses again
October 6th, 2007 at 2:04 am
Ray – If I did’nt have play defense for my team I would hit .750 as well
Well Viz….then explain to me why the Yankee DH isn’t hitting .750
sorry, just saw that ridiculous post by ringless mercenary blues -
the Yankees never needed Alex Rodriguez? Yeah, who needs 54 homeruns and 156 RBIs? YOU’RE AN IDIOT.
2 MVPs? Loser. You only won 2 MVPS?!
and to the guy who said we should replace Alex with Mike Lamb?
Good call:
Alex .314/.422/.645 54 HR, 156 RBI
Lamb .289/.366/.453 11 HR, 40 RBI
oh wait – Lamb did have 2 triples, Alex didn’t have any
Mike Lamb – save the Yankees offense! we need you! Alex Rodriguez is only the best baseball player in the entire universe! We need the 439th best baseball player!
why is it everyone who wants Rodriguez out, always suggest a guy like MIKE LAMB to replace him? Maybe we should make Wilson Betemit our everyday 3B:
.229/.333/.454 14 HR, 50 RBI
how about a Lamb/Betemit platoon?
Ok lets get this straight,if Posada, Mo, (which there is no way Mo leaves, he’s always said he wants to pitch in the new Yankees stadium in 09 as a Yankee, plus he has a restaurant in NY, a plaque waiting for him monument park), and A-rod leave, wow thats the 3 MVP’s this year of this team besides Joba. What does this team look like next year.
They would have no closer, no real setup man, no third baseman, no first baseman and no catcher.
So first of all, we can now say that Damon has been a total disappointment, the Yankees got him about 5 years too late, Melky is not an everyday CF please, Matsui seems to be on his last legs, the Yankees will pick up their club option on Abreu, they will be in the market for a third baseman, full time 1B man, starting catcher (though I could see Molina in the role, but he has no power), a starting pitcher, and at least 5 relief pitchers. Getting Cox, Sanchez and Melancon healthy will be a start but no one knows when they will be totally healthy and how well they will respond to their TJ surgery. I see Andru Jones, and or Torii Hunter in the Yankees’ future, and hopefully a healthy Phillips and Giambi sharing 1b, maybe even Helton coming the Yankees, and who knows who will play 3b, maybe Joe Crede, or my pick for 3b, Mike Lowell.
The starting staff will be strength of the team but will be young and inexperienced, but with Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Wang, Pettitte and maybe a free agent or 2 it could be a nice staff.
The relievers will be a real disaster without Joba unless some hot free agents are available.
My early team for next season
Damon – LF
Jeter- SS
Abreu – RF
Giambi – 1B
Matsui – DH
Jones – CF
Cano – 2B
Lowell – 3B
Posada – C (he stays)
Bench:
Molina – C
Betemit SS/2B/3B
Melky CF (mostly for defense, may be traded if they get Jones)
Duncan – 1B/RF PH
Phillips – 1B (could have big year)
Tabata – will come up in late August and get some pt in LF
SP – Hughes
SP – Joba
SP – Pettitte
SP – Wang
SP – Kennedy
SP – Mussina (maybe although he might retire)
SP – Free agent (or a trade like a Jon Garland type)
RP – Mo (he ain’t going nowhere)
RP – Farnsworth (could be traded) might be best if he was.
RP – Viz (as long as he has enough rest he’s ok)
RP – FA/trade
RP – FA/trade
RP – FA
RP – FA/minor league stud
The sad thing is because of the lack of good non pithcing minor league prospects its going be hard to get younger and if fact this team could get older in the field with Jones and Lowell instead of Melky and A-Rod. The pitching staff though has the potential to be much younger and they will only go as far as a revamped bullpen will take them.
Your playing the angels fat papi
Ray – seriously, what is you point of commenting on this blog?? Are the Red sox nation that inept in talking baseball?? what gives
Tim
I agree – Mo and Jorge stay – but how can you justify letting Rodriguez go? Mike Lowell instead of Alex? Come on.
That’s a downgrade. I don’t want Mike Lowell, I want Alex Rodriguez. He’s the best player in baseball; how can you justify letting go the best player in the game?
Prediction: Alex comes up big in game 3
Beckett’s no Clemens:
well said.
Tim –
Get a grip. The season isn’t over yet and your suggestions are terrible anyways. Talk to me when you’re a GM for a Major League club.
Personally I blame LeBron James for the past two nights. Thanks for jinxing us.
It’s very disappointing to see the Yankees lose the first two games in the postseason. But it is even more frustrating to see some fans so harsh on some players, such as A-Rod, Posada and Wang. Without A-Rod, the Yankees probably would not have made the playoffs this year, and Posada has made some wonderful records this season. Wang has had 19 wins for two consecutive years. I know that some people will say that only playoffs count, but with all what they did in the regular season this year, they deserve more support and less blame. I did not give up on this team in April and May, and certainly have faith in them until the very last game.
anyhone here wants to bet with me ??
Yankees will Beat Indians 7-2 on ALDS game 3 Sunday.
Anf then a two more consecutive winnings come back to kick Indians back to their tribe..
I have received the message from god …
Believe it or not…
Gnat’s life, that’s what all the people say. You’re riding high in April, Shot down in May But I know I’m gonna change that tune, When I’m back on top, back on top in June.
I said gnat’s life, and as funny as it may seem Some people get their kicks, Stompin’ on a dream But I don’t let it, let it get me down,’Cause this fine ol’ world it keeps spinning around
I’ve been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, A poet, a pawn and a king.I’ve been up and down and over and out And I know one thing:Each time I find myself, flat on my face,I pick myself up and get back in the race.
Gnat’s life I tell ya, I can’t deny it,I thought of quitting baby, But my heart just ain’t gonna buy it. And if I didn’t think it was worth one single try,I’d jump right on a big bird and then I’d fly
I’ve been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,A poet, a pawn and a king.I’ve been up and down and over and out And I know one thing: Each time I find myself laying flat on my face,I just pick myself up and get back in the race
Gnat’s life Gnat’s life and I can’t deny it Many times I thought of cutting out But my heart won’t buy it But if there’s nothing shakin’ come this here july I’m gonna roll myself up in a big ball and die My, My
I just can’t believe it ………….
They are *THE SAME GOD DAMN TEAM* (forgive me lord)
like I heard a fan say on WFAN sports radio these Yankees get punched in the mouth and stay punched. They stay knocked down in the playoffs it’s like the other team is Mike Tyson in thier prime and we are the overrated chump challenger
Actually, “Beckett’s No Clemens” post should be awarded “Post of the Year”.
Everyone needs a reason to figure out what’s wrong with this team.
Above all, baseball is a simple game of percentages, and the Yankees recent bad run is evening out from their previous great run. Like everybody else, I too wish that this team had won the previous 12 World Series in a row.
Digest this information: The most WS titles ever won in a row is 5. And that was done by a Yankee team that simply needed to win ONE postseason series. That is the reason why I feel the 1996-2001 teams was THE greatest dynasty in baseball history. That team came within one inning of taking 5 out of 6 titles in an era where you had to win THREE series to take the title. It is quite likely that everyone on this blog will be dead and buried before that feat is ever accomplished again.
Yet……do we ever stop and think how ridiculous it was that they kept winning and winning during that era? Do you know that between 1996 and 2001 the Yankees postseason record was 56-22? That’s .718 which is ludicrous.
I will NEVER forget what a fellow Yankee fan told me after Game 4 of the 2001 Series: “Baseball is just not like this. You don’t win every damn 1 run game. You don’t get a hit every damn time you need one. Someday, the Yankees will pay for all this.” I know that nobody else buys this explanation, but I do. Even the great Ruth/Gehrig teams had years of dry spells where they just didn’t get it done.
It’s funny….if someone had come up to me in April of 1996 and offered me 6 pennants and 4 WS titles over the ensuing 13 years, I think I would have accepted it. It’s just too bad that they were all turned out to be front loaded.
Peter,
As you’ve said to us on many occasions, climb down off the ledge. We know you root for sensational stories, but you’re reaching here with your loss/massive changes post. Plus, it’s too soon. Chill, dude.
It’s actually 6 WS wins for the sox (please don’t give them another one!
Why do most people here think we´re already out of it? I know we´re not exactly in good shape and it makes me sick to my stomache. But we have 2 home games coming up. Hopefully with Roger and Wang as the starters. Rocket has been great in important games this year and Wang has been great at home. After Monday this series could be tied and we could have Pettitte, the big game pitcher, starting for game 5 in Cleveland.
We CAN still win this. Keep the faith.
Pete, you are right about the potential ramifications. Some changes are needed. Status quo hasn’t worked in years.
Pete you sounding like some of the commentors. I know I sounded like that last night.
Fact is, if the Indians can beat us 2 games in a row at home, we can do the same. It’s not over.
People need to understand that Joe Torre’s contract expires when this season ends. Torre is not going to be “fired” after this series because technically he’s not even under contract.
Those that want to keep Torre, ask yourself – are you willing to have him in the dugout for another 3 or 4 years? That’s what he’ll be looking for in a new contract.
Also, PAbe, has it ever occurred to you that ARod might be more likely to stay if Torre is no longer in the picture?
I woke up early with an empty feeling and couldnt fall back to sleep. I opened my computer and read the blog to see what other folks are feeling about the series. I soon found out that there are some pretty crazy ideas floating around out there.
SJ44’s posts are usually informative and somewhat thought provoking.However, I couldn’t disagree more with his idea of replacing Joe Torre with Tony LaRussa. There is nothing in his resume..not winning percentage…not post season success…to indicate he is a better man for the job.
As much as we complain about pitch counts,specialization and 3 1/2 hour games, LaRussa’s micromanaging is as much to blame as anybody.
Torre’s strengths, especially handling the NY media, are LaRussa’s weaknesses. Tony LaRussa is such an egomaniac that he actally thinks he is the show, not the players. His act would wear out quickly in New York. With the first losing streak he’d be eaten alive by a NY media that would be chomping at the bit for a piece of him. Who needs that circus?
I’m not sure, but I’d be willing to bet the Yanks have won 3 games in a row at some point this season. Let’s all pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off. We got punched in the stomach but guess what? We’re not knocked down! We ain’t gonna lose this thing in our house! LET’S GO YANKS!!!!! LETS GO YANKS!!!!
A few observations:
1. Having a few dominant pitchers is how you win in the playoffs. Having a pitching staff built to win 90+ games can be very different from having a team built for the playoffs (see Atlanta Braves of the 90s). The Yankees have been more the former in recent years. (Notable exception: Andy Pettitte!) Dominant pitching will always beat the best hitters, and this is magnified in the playoffs.
2. Luck always plays a huge part in playoffs, and any baseball game for that matter. In fact, I might even say it often determines the playoffs (last night: bugs). Other times it’s a bad bounce, a bad call, a weak pop up that falls between fielders, and dozens of other reasons. Skill is very important, but you want your pitcher to have people hit the ball weakly, and your hitter to hit the ball hard–after that, often what happens is luck. Luck largely evens out over 162 games, but in a 5 games series it takes on huge importance.
So:
This is not A-Rod’s fault (#2). Many times during the season, he was held to 0 for 7 by good pitching. The rest of the team was shut down too (Jeter, Posada, Abreu…), and likely the Angels, Red Sox, or any other good-hitting would have been shut down too (unless they got some better luck).
It’s not Torre’s fault, how much could he have done differently? He couldn’t give Wang command in game 1 or blast insecticide in game 2.
Wang needs to learn to control his stuff when he has a lot of days off. He could become one of those dominant starters in a year or two, but for now he’s a guy that helps win 90+ (still very valuable). This is about experience, in my opinion.
The series is not over! The Yanks got past the Indians’ dominant starters and can now pounce.
Don’t dismantle this team over bad luck and one pitcher’s inexperience! Get (or create) a dominant starter and keep the core: Torre, Posada, Mo, ARod.
JTop, I agree. Some things should be changed, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I don’t see Johnny Damon being here next year. He was a good soldier about his decreased playing time,but I think it’s best for both sides to part company. It will be interesting so see how muc money the Yanks are willing to eat if he gets traded.
JTop
It’s not merely a matter of “bringing back” Joe Torre. It’s a matter of making a long term, big dollar (he makes $7 mil a year right now) committment to having him at the helm during a crucial period in franchise history. Is this the guy you want leading this team for another 3 or 4 or 5 years? Your answer may be yes but I say they need to move in another direction. The players are changing and they need to find the manager best able to deal with those changes. IMO Torre ain’t the guy.
Peter,
This post led to a very sleepless night. While I agree with this “Doomsday Scenario,” and will up you a Brian Cashman firing for being too pompous to negotiate contracts during the season and leading to this potential mess, I also know that, if there’s one thing this team has taught us this year, it’s that they will not go down without a fight.
SJ44, it’s depressing to see someone with such a high baseball IQ say we should dump ARod because “he can’t hit in the postseason.” Et tu?
Is “hitting in the postseason” a quality that players can gain and lose? Because ARod obviously has “hit in the postseason” as a Yankee and before that. He had an excellent 2004 playoffs. He had a mediocre 2005 (bad BA but decent .381 OBP), a terrible 2006, and so far a terrible 2007. So he apparently had the ability to “hit in the postseason” and lost it somewhere along the way. Or, more likely, he got shut down, with most of the rest of the team, by excellent pitching.
ARod shouldn’t get a pass for going 0 for 6 so far, but saying he’s not worth a big contract is crazy. You know that without him, we don’t make the playoffs this year. You know that any substitute will bring about a massive drop in run production. You rationally realize that he’s one big game away from “hitting” in this “postseason.” He gets a handful of hits tomorrow and suddenly he’s got a .300 BA and .500 OBP for the ALDS.
You rationally know that there have been two playoff games this season and ARod has hit badly in one of them. In the first he got on base twice in four plate appearances.
And you also know (or can easily find out) that the only regular who has hit at all this series is Abreu, and that ARod’s .250 OBP is better than every other regular’s OBP except Abreu and Cano. No one is getting on base.
You’re right that ARod is being paid too much not to come through. But so is every other player on the team. No one has an excuse not to come through.
If the Yankees lose, it’s a team failure, not an ARod failure. ARod is a part of the failure, but not the cause of it. Replace him with a low OBP guy like Crede or a peaked veteran like Lowell and you will not suddenly get a .300/.400/.500 performance in the playoffs. You will most likely get the same kind of crummy performance we’ve seen from ARod.
Pete -You just twisted the dagger that the Tribe stuck through our hearts. I hope the Yanks make your post a moot subject. If not then maybe change is good. They need A-Rod though. He’ll get his hits in the post season again(No Alex = no post season anyway).
Pete – One more thing. Just a little Q&A from the blog.(sorry no Audio).
Q:If the Yankees lose and the team does break up,will you walk too.
A:???????
Just kidding Pete but we DO need optimism not doom and gloom.
Everybody needs to relax. Let’s just win on Sunday.
Westbrook and Byrd are not Sabathia and Carmona.
“Some changes are needed. Status quo hasn’t worked in years.”
Folks, the Yankees HAVE been changing. They are now developing young pitchers. Look at the big picture!
Tried and true Yankee fans will hold out hope but reality says changes are forthcoming and truthfully due.
There no room for sentimentality in this game and with a commitment to youth for the next generation of Yankees, a new infusion of energy is required.
People like Joe Torre, Don Mattingly, and Ron Guidry have their legendary times defined but it seems apparent that change is due for them.
Most new managers will want their own staffs and Larry Bowa and Tony Pena should be retained for their knowledge and spirit they bring.
Jorge and Mo will adjust to a new manager and will stay to phase out their careers as Yankees as possibly Andy Pettitte will do as well.
The front office will not be content with the same team seeing the final season of the old Stadium and opening the new one.
It seems too soon to speculate what A-Rod will do but nonetheless, the busiest team in the offseason will be the Yankees.
Over??!!
Nobody says it’s over until we say it’s over!
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?
Folks
The talk about getting rid of Joe is crazy. The Yankees are the team in this town. How many championships did Bobby Cox win with the Braves (1) even though they have the record for post seasons (14). I lived through the dark years 1965-1977 and 1981- 1995. The Yankees might not have won a title since 2000 but they are in it every year with a chance to win.
I do believe the Yanks need some young players for the next dynasty but have there current veterans to help with the transition. The manager that they have is perfect for this job. He commands respect from his players. If he leaves and all of the players that are devoted to him go too there will be dark years again. It is not easy getting to the play offs every year to win 2 rounds and then the series.
In spite of all of that I still believe that the Yankees will be back in Ohio for game 5. I do remember the Yankees being down 2 games to Oakland after losing 2 games at home. They won the next 3 making a few cross country fights.
Have faith Yankee fans and stopping being negative
In general, SJ is asking the questions any reasonable baseball guy (or gal), who is not blinded by sentimentality or passion, should ask. But I will say this about SJ’s view: While the “A-Rod can’t hit in the post season” theme is understandable, it misses the point. None of the Yankees are hitting in the first two games (two games = small sample). The three game series, without question, lends itself to significant statistical distortions, especially when it comes to hitting. That’s because the answer to post season success is pitching, pitching, pitching, especially in a short series. If you can establish solid pitching, then slugging is the icing on the cake. But it doesn’t work the other way around.
True, the second half pitching was much better than the first half and Melky has a cannon for an arm. But if you say that A-Rod kept us in the hunt with his hitting all year, you are only partly right. First of all, Jeter and Po had solid years at the plate too. Second, A-Rod’s freakish hitting was only necessary in hindsight because our first half pitching stunk. Yup, he’s going to get another MVP. Yup, his 2007 numbers were Ruthian. Did we win the 2007 WS? Jury’s still out, but if not, unless A-Rod can pitch as good as he hits, he’s not the missing piece for 2008.
Finally, if we agree that the key is pitching, that’s not Torre’s fault. Don’t renew him, maybe it’s time for a change if the team is getting younger. But don’t blame him either. Cash is on the right track. Remember, this is what a Yankee transition looks like. Playoffs every year, just not the WS.
I’d drink East River water before I’d smell the air of Boston.
As usual Posada gets a pass by all the media for his inability to to keep either ball in the dirt thrown by Joba in front of him. Allowing Sizemore to steal third on the first and score on the second. This why he is NOT a HOF catcher. Brad Ausmus would have blocked both. As I pointed out last weekend Posada is the worst catcher in baseball at stopping/catching balls into the dirt. Another example on display last evening why good defense wins balls games and why the Yankees get beat by teams with speed on the bases with Posada behind home.
Yankee fans: this has less to do with how the Yankees stink (which they don’t), and has more to do with who their competition is. And this is NOT Tampa Bay, Baltimore or even Boston.
Yankees have run into an absolute buzz-saw with this Cleveland team. The pitching combo of Sabathia and Carmona has been almost unstoppable all season, and especially of late. Even when Sabathia has a had a bad game, he still only gives up 3 runs. This is what we saw on game 1. Carmona, well you can forget about him having a bad game. The most runs you can wish to score is 2. And that’s after he has pitched 7.2 innings. The guy has been lights-out, better than Sabathia, IMO.
And then you have the bullpen of the Indians. I know how Yankee fans are pretty confident about Joba (despite his blown save tonight even). But imagine having three Jobas. That’s pretty much what Cleveland has with Perez, Jensen & Betancourt. The only big crack in the Indian pen is Borowski, and it doesn’t look like Wedge is going to use him in this short series, in close games.
And then we have Byrd & Westbrook. Either one of these guys is capable of throwing a shut-out– easily capable. Anyway, who is their compition? Clemens & Mussina? Yikes!
Enjoy your October vacation, Mr Torre, Mr Jeter, Mr A-Rod….
BTW, Posada keeps at least one of those two in the dirt in front of him and the Yankees win the game 1-0 in 9 innings. How many balls into the dirt got by Martinez last evening?
Hi Gregg,
I used to live in Mamaroneck, I always would run into Joe Torre on Harrison Avenue and the pizza place. Does he still frequent those places?
Tiger fan, if you think that either Bryd or Westbrook will beat the Yankees in Yankee stadium,you’re either stupid or crazy probably both..
“Byrd & Westbrook. Either one of these guys is capable of throwing a shut-out”
Using that logic, any pitcher in baseball is capable of throwing a shutout.
I think we’ll be going back to Cleveland for Game 5.
They don’t need a drum in yankee stadium to hype the noise and inspire the crowd.
I’ve nevver seen anything so hokey in all my life. the Indians need a drum to inspire their fans. What a joke. Laughingstock of baseball.
The drummer threw out the first ball. Lol. What a bunch of stupid crackers.
Byrd has been really, really good this year. He usually has three quality starts & one bad start. So you are likely have a 25% chance that you can get to him & beat the Indians. Westbrook struggled earlier in the season, but really got his act together from early August on. Yankee stadium poses no significant disadvantage to either. Who knows. Hearing A-Rod booed when coming to the plate probably would fire the Indian pitchers up.
I love it. Yankees lose AGAIN.
Hey TimH, the Laughingstock of baseball is a team who overspends on players and still can’t win in the playoffs. And we of Yankee Hater Nation love it.
Tiger fan the Yankees were 7-0 against the Cleveland during the season. Westbrook 0-2 against the Yankees, Byrd 0-1, both were schellacked in their outings. Go play with your train set.
tigerfan, the laughingstock of fans are those who assume they have won when the series is not finished.
Tiger fan, Yeah the Yankees overspend and have contributed over 200 million back to MLB in the past two years more than team in baseball in the revenue sharing and cap fees. As a matter of fact Yankee fans not only finance our team but also contributed a 25 million check revenue sharing to the Tigers last year. We support our team which is more than I can say for your sorry fan base.
Congratulations Yankees for a wonderful regular season. You were 7-0 against the Indians. At least you have that.
Enjoy October golf. Enjoy your favorite off season hobby (except piloting aircraft).
NY Yankees lead all teams in MLB in Attendance once again, I think the 6th year in a row. And this is the 13 straight year in the Play-offs. And how does your team compare Tiger fan (temporary Indian fan). And how are you Tiger fans enjoying this beautiful fall weather?
Well I see you have lost the baseball argument or at least you came to a battle of wits unarmed so now personal insults are in order. Go watch your 2007 Tiger highlights.
Tiger fan, while we have you here, is Sticky Rogers returning next year?
I feel terrible for Andy he went out there and pitched his heart out, and all for nothing.
ANd I feel bad for Joba, I would bet my house that he wouldn’t have given up a run if not for the bugs.
Today is a page turner you forget about the last two games, and think about Sundays. Roger needs to come up huge!!
Hey guys, tough loss. I’m a Red Sox fan with nothing but respect for the Yankee, but did you guys hear about this? It makes you all look bad.
http://www.boston.com/news/glo.....n_ass.html
Tim, you are only encouraging the Canadian army when you swat at it. Just ignore them they will go away.
TimH, I’m sorry but the series is over. I know where you are psychologically (since my team was run over by the Indians last month). I had hope too.
I predicted before Wednesday’s game that the Indians were going to sweep the Yanks, and there is certainly no reason to think they can’t finish the job in the Bronx, especially against Clemens & Mussina. This Cleveland team is playing too good right now.
RobM how exactly does it make us look bad? That has to be one of the stupiest things i’ve read.
as I sit here and read some of these posts, I’m bonding with Red Sox fans watching on HBO, the Reverse of the Curse of the Bambino…up until “that point, where you know what happens”…..the way I feel now is how they’ve felt for 86 years up until 2004. even though there really is no comparison, I realize that. But forget about not managing the bullpen the best for Torre, what about:
batting Matsui after AROD? hindsight, we know no one hit anyway, but still…you have to hear about the highlights about the Red Sox v.Angels and they talk about Manny’s walk-off, b/c he was batting and protecting Ortiz.
so why, begs the question, did we bat Matsui after AROD? now hindsight is always 20/20, and we know now that Carmona went after AROD and he didn’t get on base anyway, but are you willing to roll the dices on that scenario every game in the playoffs?
I don’t think that if Torre’s contract is not renewed, that Jorge and Mo,nor Pettitte will go…they are a Yankee through and through, and they know it. Jorge will stay and finish his career in pinstripes and then get in line to manage- that I know in my heart.
Did you read the article?
I think the loss will only make Joba stronger. That was like a Stephen King movie. Joba was cruising, got Andy off the hook with 2 men on in the 7th and then the bugs showed up in the 8th. He was actually spitting them out, never seen anything like it.
and if you are going to call me stupid please spell it right.
Obviously I want to win thie series, but if we don’t and it guarantees Torre is gone, so be it. Girardi would be such a fine replacement.
I can’t see Mo or Posada playing anywhere else but here. Sorry.
A-Rod will never get it done in the playoffs here. Sad but true and if he goes, then he goes.
The rest of the coaching staff can leve too if they want. Girardi can bring in some of his people.
tigerfan, you need to learn a bit about baseball history. Google is a good place to start, try baseball comebacks you’ll probably see a few Yankee teams pop up. Give it try, obviously you have a few things to learn.
Oh please, because 2 idiots beat up a red sox fan, that makes all Yankee fans look bad. PLEASE!!
Like the incident in Fenway where one drunk hit another with a slice of Pizza for missing a foul pop-out into the stands?
Again this series is far from over, I can think of plenty of teams the were down 2-0 in a 5 game series and came back. Most recently the 2003 Red Sox and I know everyone here remembers that team.
IF the Yankees do go onto lose the series, it’s unfortunate that this will be how the Joe Torre era ends.
TimH asked: “Tiger fan, while we have you here, is Sticky Rogers returning next year?”
I don’t know, but I hope not. I’m concerned about his age & health, which was a big problem for the Tigers last season. We need to get innings out of our starters, otherwise our bullpen will get worn-out again. We need a new veteran starter who can be more dependable….. Hey, I know. What about Andy Pettit? He’s a free agent, and since we get this $25 million check from the Yankees, we can afford it.
I really don’t see how the Yankees can’t win three in a row. They’ve had their backs against the wall all year and that turned out pretty well. Hopefully the bats will wake up tomorrow night.
I don’t know with a little pine tar you could get another year out of Rogers, just make sure the cameramen don’t get too close.
I agree Josh, plus we aren’t facing their best pitchers now. I think we can and will come back. As you said they played with their backs against the wall all year.
Rob M, yes I read that a few days ago and that is horrible. and I really hope that most don’t take that out on the average baseball lovin Yankee fan as I couldn’t hurt a fly. I’m saddened by that, those guys are thugs that just had nothing else better to do and in their warped mind thought that they were doing right by their team….ludicrous!
The Red Sox did the Yankees a favor chosing the schedule they did because now the Yankees have Westbrook and Bryd who more than one of the Yankees have great numbers against in the Bronx.
Tiger Fan,
sorry, Andy Pettitte will not be a Tiger, just wouldn’t be right. it was even wierd seeing him in an Astro’s uniform. he is back where he belongs and he knows it!
Yea TimH, I Googled a bit about geat MLB combacks, and it was awesome to learn about some. Have you heard about the one that happened in 2004 in the ACLS? Really, you should check it out. I loved the story.
The fifth game in Cleveland will be a great game.
Yeah I know about it, the Sox won their first WS in 86 years. Then went on to string it to one in a row. Kind of like the Tigers last year, but the Sox finished the job.
TimH
That was hillarious, but there was more going on there apparently they had words earlier in the game. But they were both Sox Fans and they made us look bad. I will be the first to tell you that most Yankee fans are good people and easy to deal with. I use to be a bouncer outside of Fenway and all the Yankees fans I ever met were very cool. That’s why when I read that I was like wow that’s not really a good image of you folks.
I have to go see a whole bunch of my Red Sox fan friends today..
Ugh that should be tons of fun…
RobM, I’ve been to Fenway quite a few times and never have had any problems, it’s always a good time. There are a few bad apples wherever you go.
What the hell is a tigers fan doing trolling around here? Check your history bro, your team has sucked its entire life.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/
You finished in 1st about 10 times in the past 100 years!
Oh yeah on an even funnier side not about 3 days after the pizza incident a fight broke out at the symphony. Only in Boston.
DMAN, Sox fans more than any other in recent history should know it’s never over.
I never realized Tiger fans were such jerks. Sheffield has quite an effect.
The Yanks need to come up with a legitimate ace, 2 set up men ( preferably at least one being a lefty)and a solid right handed bat.
They need younger replacements for the roles filled by Damon, Matsui and Giambi.
This team is by no means a disaster. It’s fixable.To totally disassemble it would be foolish.
They MUST retain ARod and Posada. I don’t see where replacing Torre gains us anything. How many other managers could have gone from 20 wins on May 29 to 94 wins by October 1? He’s taking a lot of heat, but the real culprits are the players not getting the job done. Last night he put Joba in the position we all wanted to see…a 1 run lead with 4 outs to go. Should Torre get fired because of the bugs and Joba’s wildness?
“the Laughingstock of baseball is a team who overspends on players and still can’t win in the playoffs”
Is he talking about how the Sheffield deal worked out for them this year?
This will be a great measuring stick to see how tough that the Yankees are. I would love to be proven right and see this team respond with a flourish when their backs are against the wall. There is undoubtedly the right amount of talent and the right personnel to respond. Let’s do it!!
Tiger finished in 1st about 10 times in the past 100 years?
Well, that’s pretty good. 10% chance in a League of more than 10 teams is better than average. And we’ve done much better than the Red Sox, White Sox & Cubs.
We Rock!!!
someone up above said something about the bugs being like a Steven King book/movie.
Is it any coincidence that Mr. King was in attendance?
hmmmm…
Yankees in 5, this team is going to win this year.
Drive 4-5: I actually like Damon’s role. He make a lot of money, but he’s willing to do pretty much whatever’s asked of him. Bad DH, great lead-off man, cause he takes his walks and steals some bases and has been speedy of late, and he’s great as a 4th outfielder.
I was a defender of Giambi off the bench when he first came off the DL, but after he became King of the Strikeout, not anymore.
Thank you, Beckett’s No Clemens and Drive 4-5! I am glad that I am far from being the only one who wants no part of Tony LaRussa. My gut feeling is that the Yankees come back and win this series, and Joe Torre is next year’s manager. By the way, has anyone noticed how upset SJ44 gets when you disagree with him? Like yesterday, we said that Wang had too much rest, and he said that what we were saying was BS. The guy knows his stuff and he makes great points, but he gets up in arms when you disagree with one of his viewpoints. I never get upset when someone disagrees with me. That’s just not my style.
Giambi is no better or worse than Matsui in the DH, he deserves at least to DH one game, it’s not like Matsui is getting the job done.
Tiger Fan are you also a Indian fan? You used the word “we” to describe Westbrook and Byrd. Anyway, Clemens and Mussina are better quality starters than Westbrook and Byrd. The truth is all four pitchers are ?.
16 times this year the Yanks won 3 games in a row. SIXTEEN. They even once did it against pitchers named Beckett, DiceK and Schilling. Who to say we can’t do it against Westbrook, Byrd and Sabathia??
The Yankees also played terrific baseball after the All-Star break. No reason why they can’t channel that stretch in the next three days. We’re not dead yet!
Pete,
One of the reasons why sportswriters are not loved is the useless speculation about a dire future where the manager gets fired and all the players leave. Please let it play out before you paint a bleak scenario.
GS is out of the picture so expect a rational response. They will field a team next year.
Peter,
You’ve been my go-to guy all year. At least 5 times a day I go to you.
Now…in my moment of greatest need, when I refuse to read any papers or watch any sports report on TV for fear of getting more depressed and anxious…I come to you and not only do you offer a glimmer of hope…BUT…you take me down!!! No Joe, no A-Rod, No Jorge, No Mo, no coaching staff!!!!
PA, please don’t leave us now. We need encouragment. We need something like that sppech in Hoosiers, when the coach says to his nervous nerdy freshman with blind confidence “OK after you sink the second free throw, here’s the plan”. Don’t you think we’re going to be feeling different after we win tomorrow night? Is the challenge really “mission impossible”? Can’t we win 2 at home against pitchers 3 and 4…and then have a winner-take-all ending?
Please help us Peter!!!
(By the way, after an entire season, I’ve finally figured out how to contact you…I think. My son and I have been meaning to ask you out to lunch. I love your info, your style, and the kind of man you seem to be).
Later,
Robert
No Jax, I am not an Indian fan. They are a hated rival as far as I’m concerned. I used the term “we” not intending it as a claim of allegiance. It is similar to saying that we have Venus, Earth & Mars.
I don’t think that Clemens and Mussina have been better quality starters that Byrd and Westbrook. Not as of late, that is. As a Tiger fan watching my team chase both of these teams, I have seen Clemens and Mussina as much more erratic and less dependable than Byrd and Westbrook.
It’s disappointing…And we have the predictable cries to blow up the team. Certainly, we need to improve our pitching, getting more of the “shut-down” type of players. This is not news. We’re well on that path, with Joba, Hughes, maybe Ian Kennedy if he continues to develop. The reports from the minors on others is good, also. And, who knows, maybe even Santana +/- Joe Nathan, if things work out.
However, when it comes down to replacing the guys in the regular lineup, you need to stop and think “Who are we getting to take their place?” Mike Lowell at 3rd? How will he hit without the Green Monster? Get Andruw Jones for the outfield – he had a very bad year, and is getting noticed for declining outfield skills. Do you depend on him to have a comeback year in 2008? Torii Hunter is pretty good, but he’s about as old as Damon – will he start to decline also? Do you replace Melky with him? Melky had a pretty good season, and played a pretty good, clutch game last night, saving a run and scoring one. He should be hitting his prime. Do you get rid of him? I don’t think we have any MLB ready position players in the system. What to do?
It’s one thing to want better performance. We all want that. The trick is actually having a plan, and making the necessary decisions. Constructive criticism is one thing. Whining is irritating.
Tiger Fan,
Against the Yankees in ’07:
Jake Westbrook is 0-2 12.48 ERA. In his one Yankee Stadium start this year he pitched an innning and 2/3 allowed 12 hits and 8 runs.
In Paul Byrd is 0-1 31.50 ERA. In his only start against the Yankees he lasted 2 innings and allowed 7 runs on 7 hits.
BRING THEM ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The future is not so bad. Next year the Yankees’ starting rotation will likely be Wang, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Hughes, and Pettite. All the youngsters now have some major league experience. Looks like a great young pitching staff with Pettite as the veteran. What the Yankees need to do is solidify the bullpen whether Mo stays or goes. They haven’t had a decent bullpen in years.
As for A-Rod- good riddance. We can pay Lowell a lot less and he likely won’t choke during the playoffs. I do hope that they retain Posada, though. He has been an important part of the team.
Good pitching is what wins you Championships. With potentially great starting pitching staff and an improved bullpen, the Yankees will be stronger next year.
I’m taking up a collection for cab fare for Jake Westbrok and Paul Byrd. We don’t want them to miss the games. Anyone else in??
BTW
The Yankees aren’t dead yet. A tough loss yes and they have their backs against the wall, but they can pull it off.
The Yankees have played the best this year when they are up against the wall. Surely, there isn’t a thicker or taller wall than what they’re facing come Sunday night.
I don’t expect a roll-over from Westbrook and I fully don’t expect the Yankees offense to put up some serious numbers. I do expect Clemens to pitch well, and fight through 6 tough innings and give his team a chance to win.The rest is on this excruciatingly frustrating post-season offense, which we’ve seen for years on end.
The Yankees offense has absolutely sucked for the most part against great pitchers this year, except for the Redsox pitchers, for some reason they hit them. Everyone else’s ace(s), they roll over against.
The Yankees need to simplify their approach, go the opposite way and get Matsui the hell out of the starting lineup, he is not the same Matsui since late July, since then he has clearly been hurt or in an amazing funk.
They need to get on base and run, Victor Martinez is not Pudge back there, he is ok, he is not some gun who is going to cannon out every runner.
I predicted before the series 3-2 Yankees. I still maintain they can do it.
Joe from Long Island- Good point, and Torii Hunter is also starting to decline a bit. Remember, he suffered a broken ankle a couple of years ago and now he grounds into a lot of double plays. He doesn’t quite cover the ground like he used to in center. That tells me that he has lost half a step. He’s not a youngster anymore, either. Someone will take a chance on him, but it definitely won’t be and shouldn’t be, the Yankees. Probably the Rangers if I had to guess, since Hunter lives in Texas.
A few points:
1. Joe Torre is plain clueless. When the bugs were swarming like that it did not even occur to him that he should ask the umpire to suspend the game for a few minutes. Whether the umpire would have agreed or not he should have tried. It is no different from not bunting against Schilling during bloody sock game.
2. To Peter and all…thinking that Posada and Mo will leave if Torre is not brought back (not fired as he has no contract for next year) does not make sense. Just because Joe leaves they will just go to a foreign place and deal with all strangers – players, coaches organization. Common on, show some commone sense.
3. A-Rod, I want him back, he is great player. He is having a funk in October for now in New York, though his overall post season stats are not that bad. Yanks will offer him a very good pacakge. If he is still looking for the msot money and opts out, he should be let go. Yanks can always trade surplus pitching prospects and get a young 3B, as there are no realistic options in FA.
4. For all those who bash A-Rod for his failures in October, what about Joe Torre’s failures in October for even much longer period. Also, at least in this series, how about the failures of all other offensive players including Jeter. So, stop picking on A-Rod alone.
5. I am still hopeful we will win this series. If we win convincingly on Sunday, the tide will turn around.
It’ll come down to pitching and timely hitting, as usual. As to A-Rod: like the man said, sharper than a serpent’s tooth . . . If we dismiss the regular season as meaningless, we’re living in a 1996-2001 dreamworld. The Yankees would be planning their golf dates right now instead of fighting for their playoff lives if not for Alex Rodriguez. This year has shown that making the postseason is not a given for any team, not even the Yankees. And re Tony LaRussa, he is a great manager, but managing in New York and managing the Yankees is unlike any other situation in baseball. Lastly, Jake Westbrook could pitch the game of his life on Sunday, but the real Yankees offense (if it shows up) can hit him. So here’s to outside-the-box managerial thinking, a fighting spirit, and a big dose of Squirrel Power!!! Peace out …
The offense is wayyyy overdue. After facing incredibly tough pitching the last 2 games they will bust out the next 2 games facing much easier hurlers.
We pulled off a more improbable comeback in 2001. We can do it again. The Indians are a good team but not as good as the 2001 A’s, and I don’t think this year’s Yankees are any worse than the 2001 Yankees. In fact they’re probably much better.
The blow up the team talk is understandable (what Yankee fan isn’t unbearably frustrated right now?) but regrettable nonetheless. It’s just not fair to say that there is something fundamentally wrong with the team even if we’re swept tomorrow. The playoffs are too much of a crapshoot to say things like that.
Cashman, I presume, is too smart to think that you remake a playoff team because it lost in the ALDS. The same cogs that give you success in the regular season – strong starters, dominant relief, high OPS hitters, quality fielding, players who stay healthy, and good luck – will win championships too. There is no secret formula for finding players who are merely ok in the regular season but become unstoppable in the playoffs. If you make it to the playoffs, your team is probably good enough to win a championship. Just look at the 2003 Marlins and 2006 Cardinals.
Why did we lose game 1? Because Wang was atrocious and our pen didn’t keep us in the game. We probably would have lost even if ARod had hit a grand slam. But no one says trade Wang in the offseason. Wang had a bad start at a terrible time, and Torre might have made some pitching decisions. What do we get from blowing up the team?
Why did we lose game 2? Because, except for Melky’s solo jimmy jack, the entire lineup went to sleep, midges attacked Joba, and Torre didn’t stop the game or go to Rivera in time. Do we dump the entire lineup? Posada hasn’t done a thing in this series – do we let him go? Joba couldn’t get the job done – gone. Jeter has sucked – trade him.
Blowing up the team gets us nothing but several years of not making the playoffs.
The only team member whose departure will improve the team is, sadly, Torre. This ALDS has finally exposed him. Seemingly every decision he makes is first and second-guessable. His passivity during Midge Storm 2007 was inexcusable. He is a mentor now, not a manager.
Let him go. But don’t send away our best players because we lost two games for two completely different sets of reasons.
Jake Westbrook is not some scrub who hasn’t tasted success in the ML. He is at worst a #4 starter on a contending team capable of giving his team a quality start 70% of the time.
If he is on though, it will be more likely due to the Yankees offense not showing up and choking- like they have since 2001, than pure stuff similiar to Carmona or CC.
The Yankees need to step up and play with pride. Battle for once and get a timely hit for crying out loud. If they don’t win this game we can’t blame the squirrel not showing up or the damn bugs in Cleveland- we have to blame the guys who wear the stripes and the Joe who pencils in the line-up.
I still believe the Yankees win 6-4, any takers??
To all those who want to dump ARod and replace him with Mike Lowell..
What happens if at age 34 Lowell puts up numbers like he did in ’04.’05 and ’06? Until his this year he hasn’t driven in 100 rus since ’03. The guy is a solid defender, but let’s not get all starry eyed over someone who is having the best year of his career, probably not coincidentally, in the walk year of his contract.
this offense blows and Torre says he isnt making any changes for sunday? If he doesnt, he can find a new job. Im so sick of hit sh^t. Just fire him already. They wont all walk just because torre isnt around. Thats ridiculous – they all just want the most money and they will be happy. They will have eachother, they dont need a old dog of a manager that doesnt know how to win in the postseason anymore. If they get swept, Torre and Cashman should both be fired and out on their #ss. Its ridiculous already. How many yrs do we lose in the alds before whoever is running this team at the moment realizes that this isnt working. Cashman is an idiot and Torre refuses to change his ways no matter what the circumstance.
I’ve wrote this before. I’ll write it again. This team doesn’t need to jettison players. It only needs to add one or two to reclaim a championship.
It needs a genuine authentic hard-throwing No. 1 starter, who amasses strikeouts and who misses bats. Wang’s a very good pitcher but he’s more a #2 pitcher than a one.
Look at which pitchers knocked the Yankees out of the playoffs the past four years in the playoffs: Schilling in ’04; Escobar in ’05, Verlander/Bonderman in ’06, Sabathia/Carmona ’07.
Hughes and/or Chamberlain and/or Humberto Sanchez might fill this role. Otherwise, the Yankees will have to acquire one, like Johan Santana or Sabathia, via trade or free agency.
I’m not giving up just yet on the ’07 ALDS. Still, I have know idea what Roger will give the Yankees tomorrow and Westbrook, while ineffective against the Yankees, is a sinkerball pitcher who can pitch a good game. Quite frankly, I wish Hughes were starting with Roger on hand to relieve if necessary. Win Game 3 however and with Byrd in Game 4, the series will return to Cleveland.
All that being said (or written), the Yankees are still about a year away from being the elite team in the AL, but this hinges on them first of all, re-signing Posada, Rivera, and A-Rod; and secondly, finding themselves that authentic one starter they’ve lacked since 2000.
Many times we hear that a team is a reflection of it’s manager. Would Billy Martin’s demeanor and dugout presence allow Yankee hitters to go collectively flat all at once in a game where his pitchers threw their hearts out ? Think not Joe. Billy would have said “Screw the bugs, they don’t know how to pitch” !!!
I bet the clubhouse isnt “light” anymore like they were after the loss on thursday. You cant act light because that to me, does portray confidence but rather breeds apathy. This lineup looks apathetic. Granted, carmona and sabathia are good pitchers but the yankees have bad approaches at the plate. Some of them are swinging at balls -something they never did during the season.
Look at the staff the Yankees had in their recent glory years, were any one of them truly #1 types– such as a Unit/Schilling in 2001, a Santana of 2004-06, a Beckett this year, a Roy Oswalt, a Halladay?? I don’t think so, they were all a bunch of #2-#3 guys who pitched decently into the 6th inning or so and were backed up by a lights out BP.
The one other thing they had going for them, like any championship team. was a decent offense that could manufacture runs and come up with the occasional big hit.
I maintain The Yankees since 2001 Dbacks have lost their swagger not mainly because of a lack of a true #1 SP, but because of an offensive approach that has failed, and failed some more. They have relied on the long ball at the same time ignoring all semblance of small ball and have paid for it. This a team that looks like a juggernaut when they are on but they look like the most pathetic offense in the entire ML when they are not. What the hell is this?? No protypical #1 is going to cure this offensive disappearance.
Kill-Schill, I couldnt agree with you more. The worst thing the Yanks could do is panic by tearing apart this team go out and sign a bunch of 34 year old free agents from other teams. Retaining A Rod, Mo and Posada is a must, in spite of Mo’s & Jorge’ ages.Not retain the best player in the game?? Where is the logic in that?
I really liked the confident look Phil Hughes had in Game 1. His body language was excellent. He’s going to be a legitimate #3 starter. The question will be if the Yanks decide Joba is more valuable as a starter or in the bullpen.Down the road Humberto Sanchez could turn into this year’s Joba.Who knows? All I know is I wouldn’t mind a rotation of Joba, Wang, Pettite, Hughes and Kennedy next year.
But we’re getting ahead of ourselves here. ’07 ain’t over!!! Go Yanks!!!!
Yankee 21, need I remind you how dominating the Yankees starting pitching was between ’96-01.
If they didn’t have an ace, they certainly had a collection of four to five #2 starters, which is the reason why the won with offensive far inferior to the post-’04 teams.
In ’96
1) Pettitte was 21-8 with a 3.87 ERA
2) COne was 7-2 with a 2.88 ERA
In 1998,
1) Wells was 18-4 with 3.49 ERA with a perfect game
2) Cone was 20-7 with a 3.55 ERA
3) Duque was 12-4 with a 3.13 ERA
In 1999,
1) Cone was 12-9 with a 3.44 ERA
2) Duque was 17-9 with a 4.12 ERA
In 2000
1) Clemens was 13-8 with a 3.70 ERA
2) Pettitte was 19-9 with a 4.35 ERA
In 2001
1) Clemens was 20-3 with a 3.51 ERA
2) Mussina was 17-11 with a 3.51 ERA
3) Pettitte was 15-10 with a 3.99 ERA
In 2003,
1) Roger Clemens 17-9 with 3.91 ERA
2) Andy Pettitte 21-8 with 4.02 ERA
3) Mike Mussina 17-8 with a 3.40 ERA
4) Wells was 15-7 with a 4.14 ERA
By contrast, since ’04 the Yankees have had, at best, one or two top starters. Kevin Brown was their best pitcher in ’04. Need I say more? Mussina hasn’t been better than a #3 since 2003. In 2005, their best pitchers were Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon. In ’05-’06, The Unit won 17 games but was exhausted by the post-season and pitched poorly. Wang pitched one good post-season game in ’05, one mediocre one last year, and this year was wretched.
The weakness of this team is starting pitching. Gutsy starting pitching. ANdy is the only pitcher that doesn’t fall apart when he’s out there on the mound if something is going wrong. Wang falls to pieces, as does Mussina. Roger can at times, too, but he can also be pretty gutsy with a little less success than Andy has.
I fully believe the Yankees will put some fight into the rest of this series and it will go 5 games. If the underdog can beat the favorite two games in a row, then the new underdog can beat the new favorite 2 games in a row. Game 5 is going to be crazy. We can only hope that Wang or Pettitte can pitch, and pitch well.
This team needs IPK, Hughes, Chamberlain all to pitch well next season. If Andy doesn’t come back, we;re going to need an ace for this staff. Pitchers will be on the market this offseason and during the season for trades. We need to make some sound moves, even if it means giving up some big prospects (hopefully offensive ones). This team never has trouble finding offense with their cash, but pitching is certainly a rare commodity.
Have faith for the next few games. Roger can go 7-8 if the Indians aren’t patient. We’re going to have to use Mo and Joba again, and maybe Farnsworth. BUt let’s not panic with regard to Farnsworth. He could surprise us.
Who will start game 4? I have no idea. I kind of hope it is Moose because I know he’ll go out there with a plan and execute. We should ***DEFINITELY*** take him out in the 5th, regardless of the score, because he starts to falter from the 6th inning on. Hughes needs to be ready to throw 3-4 scoreless innings in relief. he showed some nasty stuff on thursday and he’s still got it in him now.
We need a hero this year. I think it’s Hughes.
KSchil; your point was the Yankees needed a dominant #1 and that is keeping them from Championship, right?
The Yankees of 96-2001 certainly had guys with good numbers and more importantly guys who were big game pitchers (wells and el duque)but none of them match the dominating stuff of guys like Santana(04-06), Unit/Schill in 2001 and others I mentioned. The Yankees were stocked with #2 and #3 guys who didn’t melt in the post season, in fact, they largely thrived.
It sure does help to have a dominating #1 but how many teams have one? There are a handful of true ace pitchers in the ML, so if you have one you are in a distinct minority.
My point was you need top flight pitching, not necessarily a dominant #1, as well as some offensive capability to create runs when your big guys run into funks. The Yankees of their championship years had this balance, the Yankees since 2001 have not.
Fair point Yankees21.
I concede it was the depth of those previous Yankees teams’ starting rotations rather than the preeminence of one particular pitcher. Still, in almost each of those years, it seemed one of their pitchers pitched with the dominance of an ace– e.g., Boomer in ’98, Clemens in ’01, Pettitte in ’96
Do you really think aces are so scarce however? In the AL East there’s,
1) Beckett
2) Halliday (Burnett could be if he ever managed to stay healthy)
3) Bedard
in the AL Central
1) Verlander
2) Santana
3) Sabathia or Carmona
AL West
1) King Felix
2) Dan Haren
3) John Lackey
Add a pitcher of the caliber of anyone of the above 9-10 pitchers and place him in front of Wang and Pettitte/Hughes and the Yankees, with their lineup, would dominate the AL for the next 5 years.
joba had Flies all over his flabby carcass…sweating up a storm on the mound and blowing it big time…I LOVE THIS GAME!
TimH, does your mommy know you’re on her computer?
You’re a sore loser, little man.
Seriously doubt it tigerfan, she passed away ten years ago. And my team is still in the tournament loser.
Yankees Won the ALDS! Ready to take Red Sox down on ALCS!
Here are the games results:
ALDS Game 3: Yankees 7 vs Indians: 2
Clemens (1-0), Westbrook (0-1)
Rivera S1
ALDS Game 4: Yanksees 5 vs Indians 2
Wang (1-1), Sabathia (1-1)
Chamberlain S1
ALDS Game 5: Yankees 9 vs Indians 7
Pettitte (1-0), Carmona (1-1)
Rivera S2