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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Steinbrenner to Torre: Win or else

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 07, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ian O’Connor of The Record has the story of the day. He spoke to George Steinbrenner.

On Joe Torre: “His job is on the line. I think we’re paying him a lot of money. He’s the highest-paid manager in baseball, so I don’t think we’d take him back if we don’t win this series.”

On A-Rod: “I think we’ll re-sign him. I think he’s going to have a good run the rest of the (postseason). I think he realizes New York is the place to be, the place to play. A lot of this (postseason) is laying on his shoulders, you know, but I think he’s up to it.”

On his health: “I’m doing all right. I’m fine.”





124 Responses to “Steinbrenner to Torre: Win or else”

  1. Rebecca--27 in 07! Nothing beats Optimism! October 7th, 2007 at 11:29 am

    HUGE story.

    The Record is my hometown paper. I’m partial to it. Especially the Sports Page.

    Okay, that aside, tonight just became that much more important…

  2. gayle October 7th, 2007 at 11:29 am

    Atleast we know George still has a pulse this interview sounds more like the old George or any George for that matter. The more recent stuff has been to pr hogwash.

    The quote about he will be the one to decide how much to offer Arod I think is very interesting wonder what role Cashman will have in this matter

  3. Sherri October 7th, 2007 at 11:32 am

    I posted this on another entry, but it seemed more appropriate here:

    I guess I feel a little sad about George’s ultimatum. I realize that’s just “how he rolls,� but that’s something that should be dealt with once everything’s said and done, between them. One characteristic I’ve generally admired about Torre is how he supports his players. His players obviously hold him in high regard, and I don’t think that’s something you take lightly. Is he perfect? No, no one is. I personally just feel that what he’s done this season which was admittedly referred to as a “rebuilding� year, is quite amazing considering where we were, and where we ended up.

    I also realize that part of being in New York is getting to the World Series, and the players know this going in, as does Torre, but I guess sometimes I wish George, et al, showed the support to Torre that Torre shows to his players. This year could’ve gone a lot worse, and we have yet to see what will happen tonight, but I know this year, I’ve seen these guys turn it around and play as a team, and it’s been one helluva ride!!!

  4. gayle October 7th, 2007 at 11:32 am

    I believe this is the same Ian OConnor that used to be with the New York Times. I always find it interesting who George decides to do interviews with. Maybe it all depends on which day you call Howard Rubenstein.

  5. CGramazio October 7th, 2007 at 11:33 am

    Something about this piece rings hollow to me…I’m sure Ian O’Connor is a respectable journalist, but, I don’t know…it just seems too easy. Standard pat Steinbrenner answers, this is really a throw away article to me.

  6. Thurm October 7th, 2007 at 11:34 am

    Man I love that guy. I always feel like he speaks not for unions or MLB, but for the fans… Long live the Big Stein.

  7. Tim October 7th, 2007 at 11:34 am

    Torre …We will support you always ..

    Yankees will rebound …

    I am from Taiwan as the Wang’s birth place

  8. yankee21 October 7th, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Torre’s job has been in jeopardy as early as 2004, he should have been fired 3 years ago but the Yankees have not had the courage to do it.

    He is the wrong guy at the wrong time for this team and has been for years. I believe he is a good baseball man but he stopped becoming a field leader long ago and assumed the role of grandfather, whose idea of managerial moves is to fill up the green tea now or wait for the half to get over.

    It is a wonder the Yankees have got as far as they have this year with him at the helm. Just about every other team has to beat just the other team to win the game, in the Yankees case they have to overcome their manager too!

    The Yankees will win tonight and I predicted they’d win the series 3-2. This because of their talent, defintely not because of their current manager.

  9. Ryan CT October 7th, 2007 at 11:38 am

    Either that fires up this team or puts even more pressure on them and they keep pressing. Most of our players have said they want Torre back pretty much, so now not only does the season hang in the balance but also Joe’s job.

  10. we miss paulie October 7th, 2007 at 11:39 am

    I’m with you Sherri, nice post. You’re right, nobody is perfect and Joe has done many things right over the past 13 years, and he, as much as anyone else is a true Yankee. I do wish that the management would show the same respect to him as he does his players instead of always throwing him under the bus when things go bad. Honestly, I don’t know what else Joe could be doing now. Sitting Matsui? Maybe…but is that grounds for “not getting it done” and being fired? In the context of everything right hes done, that seems silly. The players need to step up tonight, not Joe.

  11. Adam October 7th, 2007 at 11:40 am

    If this an effort to pump up the team down 0-2?? This is just the dumbest thing ever. To release this statement today, the first times hes spoken all year, is just insane. Is the boss seriously trying to relive every moment of ’77?

    Also, he puts blame and freomming for game 2, but still gives torre the hook? Come on boss you’re better than this

  12. we miss paulie October 7th, 2007 at 11:42 am

    And to day this in some unheard of newspaper…I just hope hes had this conversation with Joe first, or its hugely disrespectful.

  13. gayle October 7th, 2007 at 11:44 am

    The bergen Record is not some unheard newspaper it is I believe the largest newspaper in New Jersey and for those of us in Bergen county the paper of record. Not sure where you live but the Record has a long history of good sports reporting.

  14. A Tampa Yankee in King George's Court October 7th, 2007 at 11:48 am

    About time that someone has finally stepped up and gave Joe some consequences. For 5 years now he has been able to muddle and blunder his way through seasons and postseasons without fear of reprisal because he is so beloved for lucking into 4 World Series. Finally, George has the luxury of the fear of another postseason flame out and the accompanying well deserved criticism of Torre to back him up in order to give this ultimatum. Just like he did earlier this year when he said that Joe and Brian were on “the big hook” maybe this will fire the team up and we will actually be able to, I dont know, actually get a hit sometime. I know, it sounds like a novel concept, but baseball players do actually occasionally hit a ball that isnt turned into an out by the fielders. I do acknowledge, however, that watching the Yankees hit these past two games, one might get the impression that the point of the game of baseball is for the Yankee batter to try to get back to his seat on the bench as soon as possible.

  15. Paulie October 7th, 2007 at 11:55 am

    Well, at least we know one thing going into today’s game, the folks at TBS, ESPN and every possible media outlet will beat this story to death.

    Here’s to seeing a different kind of beat down – Let’s hope the Yankees’ bats providing the punishment.

  16. Marc October 7th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    So all of a sudden Steinbrenner chooses to not speak in statements? Something is fishy here…and I’m not sure he’s in good enough health to speak for the organization…I don’t trust that journalist

  17. InsertNewSN October 7th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    K, Steinbrenner. You’re the big boss. Make a team with a competent bullpen, then we’ll talk.. you croney

  18. we miss paulie October 7th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    Thanks Gayle, I understand its your hometown newspaper, and didn’t know it was the biggest in NJ. But for the owner of the NY Yankees to issue a statement like that in anything less than the national media, is disrespectful and borderline questionable, especially if he hasn’t spoken to Joe first.

  19. yankee21 October 7th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    Many people love Joe and his accomplishments, the bottom line he’s getting paid and paid big to produce wins in the postseason, when was the last time he’s actually filled his end of the bargain?

    Torre achieved ICON status because of his run of championships between 96-00, and deservedly so. As much as he earned accolades for success, does he not also deserve blame for failure, and especially the embarassment of 2004? These two go together, right? Accountability, right?

    He has had access to sports’ largest budget, and endless personnel resources to meet Big Steins expectations, something he signed up for yet has not advanced past the first round since 2004. Also, the team has to basically undergo a herculean effort just to make the playoffs the last 3 years, so the team is wasted come playoff time, yes, this is on the players, but definitely on management too.

    Good man definitely. Great accomplishments yes, but this is a now team with a need for now victories. Joe must go, and go regardless of the Yankees run this post season.

  20. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    “Good man definitely. Great accomplishments yes, but this is a now team with a need for now victories. Joe must go, and go regardless of the Yankees run this post season.”


  21. Buddy Biancalana October 7th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    Steinbrenner is the boss & obviously can make all that he talked about happen, but why didn’t he say that before the series began, why when they are on the brink, so if the Yanks do win this series, which can definitely happen, he will take the credit for inspiring Torre & the Yankees. Torre has been amazing as a manager with the exception of burning out relievers. If Posada, Rivera & Pettitte leave b/c of Torre not being allowed to continue, that will be on Steinbrenner’s shoulders & his legacy.

  22. CGramazio October 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    For God’s sake, Torre’s job is always on the line, there’s nothing new here. For the last what, 5 or 6 years they’ve been talking about getting rid of Joe.

    Torre has done fine. I used to get all over him as well, then I realized something, the players really like and trust him, that’s got to count for something. Managers make decisions that backfire ad nauseum, he’s not alone, it just gets magnified because he’s in New York.

    It’s the media in the city that blows everything out of proportion, they spit out this kind of hyperbole constantly. It’s the largest media market in the world, the journalist are competing too. It’s all about who can make the biggest name for themselves, even if that means unnecessarily stirring the pot at times.

    Torre represents stability, a stability that was sorely lacking before he arrived. I’m sure you can all remember what it was like before he got here. Combine that with the media exacerbating everything and you’ve got a situation where no one wants to play in New York. People want to play for New York, largely because of Joe. In the past people wanted to be on the Yankees because they were the Yankees. Then George got out of hand, combined with the media, and a lack of certainty with coaching, and presto…people turned their backs on the Yankees. Torre help bring respectability back to the franchise, he deserves credit for this.

    This isn’t the 50′s, you can’t expect the Yankees to win every World Series. They make the playoffs every year, and although I too would like to see them win it all, I’m not going to put all the blame on Joe if they don’t.

    With all that being said, I believe they will win today and tomorrow…then we get all the drama and magic of a game 5.

  23. Kill-Schill(ing) October 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    It’s six hours before game time and I’m already sick to my stomach with nerves.

    Whatever happens in this series I still would prefer to see Torre return for at least one more season for two reasons.

    1) Signing Torre for another year or two both increases the likelihood that Pettitte exercises his one-year player option for ’08 and that Mo and Posada return. (They might re-sign regardless but why tempt it.)

    2) Neither of the two alternatives to Torre– Mattingly and Girardi– especially impress me, not yet anyway. Mattingly could use a few more years of seasoning and Girardi, quite frankly, unnerves me. Something about his personality— the crew cut, the meticulousness, the rigidity, the obsession with details– smacks of the autocratic martinet.

    Girardi is probably best suited to a team like the Mets with an abundance of undisciplined, young kids who need a stringent authority figure. By contrast, even the Yankees rookies deport themselves like mature, responsible adults.

    3) I don’t want any part of Bobby Valentine or Tony LaRussa, two names I’ve also heard bandied about.

  24. Bob October 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    Great…..just what the team needs going into a game like this.

    I agree with everything Steinbrenner says, but the timing of saying it is going to put so much more pressure on a bunch of guys who are already about to crack.
    I think this was a very stupid thing to do.

  25. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    “Good man definitely. Great accomplishments yes, but this is a now team with a need for now victories. Joe must go, and go regardless of the Yankees run this post season.”

    I prefer the team win WS with a new competent manager, rather than worry if some player will come back if Torre is gone. They are all together since 2001 (exception pettitte), did they win? Some thing has to give. Once again this premise that Mo and Posada will leave if Torre is canned is non-sense.

  26. TimH October 7th, 2007 at 12:11 pm

    I’m skeptical of the story and whether certain comments by GS were taken out of context. Why not report the interview in it’s entirety with the both the question answer segments? Wouldn’t that be more accurate and telling for the readers? Why has O’Connor crafted sentences around Steinbrenner’s comments to sensationalize them rather then present the question he had asked to elicit that response. It appears to me to be typical gotcha journalism, and is hard to me to accept on it’s face because of the way it has been written by O’Connor.

  27. Joe from Long Island October 7th, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    If it can happen to Casey Stengel (12 years, 10 pennants, 7 WS), it can happen to anybody. (Although Casey did commit the crime of turning 70, the reason the team reportedly gave for his dismissal.) Again, the question is who do you replace him with. Mattingly, Girardi, LaRussa – one can make a case for them all, and they all have question marks. That’s not a reason to not make a change, just realize that the change may not make a difference, or make things worse.

    But this speculation is premature. Life is funny. Let’s see what happens.

  28. east side yankee October 7th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Ian O’Connor is not a hack reporter who makes things up. He is very close to the Yankee organization, watches games in the owners box and Steinbrenner has used him in the past to send messages. When the yankees were blowing the ’04 ALCS to the Sox Oconnor was at USA Today and he wrote a column that blasted Torre; it was a message from Steinbrenner. So you can be sure that Torre will not be back if they blow this series.

    Torre shouldn’t be back. A monumental collapse in ’04 and three straight 1st round exits. Not to mention the fact we have progressively gotten worse in the regular season. We had to come back from big deficits in 05 and 06 to win the division and this year another huge deficit has to be overcome in order to win the wild card.

    The psychology of the team has to be changed. period. If Mariano and Jorge leave as a result so be it (they’re 36 – 38 years old for gods sake; they’ll be gone in two years anyway)

    You want George to pay Torre 7 million per year for another 3-4 years. Are you insane!!!

    Torre has had a great run but its time for a change folks. Remember how panicked you were when we got rid of Showalter.

  29. Global Warming October 7th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    Big Stein should shut his damn mouth. I love the man but everyone and their mother knows that Torres job is on the line, no reason to come out and say it and add extra pressure on Torre and his players.

    This whole team is pressing, this crap doesn’t help.

  30. Rivera October 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    “Good man definitely. Great accomplishments yes, but this is a now team with a need for now victories. Joe must go, and go regardless of the Yankees run this post season:”

    A terrific clubhouse guy, terrible in game manager. This team is young and thriving, not the place for a ‘veterans only’ manager.

    Further, he has now lost far more than he has won, including the unspeakable act committed against our hated rivals. His list of historic managerial blunders is expansive and exhaustive and the subject of several books. They are not merely limited to the flagitious extra inning act in the playoffs when he brought in Weaver sucking the life out of our team.

    This firing is long long overdue. Nice guy. Very nice guy. Bad in game manager.

  31. yankee21 October 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    BB, absolutely. If Mo and Po leave because Torre gets canned, I’d be shocked, Mo and Po and others on this incredible team are not 6 graders who need a Joe’s loving touch, they can handle the Yankee perks fairly well without Joe’s hand. Who started this rumor that all these guys would leave anyway, just nonsense.

    There is something to stay about the benefit of stability, but when stability and comfort and a pat on the rear becomes the norm and becomes the goal then we have a real problem expecting the level of performance stemming from hunger, motivation, pride of pin-stripes, chance for big-bucks,,,, whatever.

    We need a manager who is hungry, Joe is not hungry, he’s content, he’s already got his ICON status, give someone else a chance to earn theirs.

  32. Global Warming October 7th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    “”The umpire was full of [expletive],” Steinbrenner told the paper. “He won’t umpire our games anymore.” ”

    I do love this quote though.

    The reports of Big Steins demise are little premature, no?

  33. Bob October 7th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    I woke up today with a new found sense of hope.

    Reading this story killed that quick.

  34. Chris S October 7th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    Good to hear George still has the fire in him. This is Torre’s last year whether they get dismissed now or in the world series. If they were to win the WS they would consider taking him back but I doubt they would sign him to a long deal if they did, maybe a 1 year deal to finish out the run at the old stadium.

    Also worth noting is Cashman was spared the wrath, and rightfully so. He has proved he knows what hes doing with the prospects. He got rid of Torre’s crutch in Scott Proctor and brought up Joba with rules in place to protect him from Joe. Gagne’s terrible performace in Boston combined with Kennedy looking good validated not making that trade. And Hughes is still a huge prospect going forward, he struggled a bit after the injury but ended the season strong. Hes proven hes worth keeping.

  35. TimH October 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    You people believe everything you read.

  36. TK_NYY October 7th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    The Mantra is win the WS, anything else is a failure. Most reasonable people realize thats absurd, but 3 years in a row of getting whipped in the 1st round is unacceptable.

    This team is one of the best in the league… on paper. For some reason they are not performing the big spot. Something isn’t working, you can’t deny it.

  37. Jaewon October 7th, 2007 at 12:23 pm

    Good job George. We need fire, and if that’s what you’re going for good job. We need a pump up mechanism at the stadium. Our’s stink.

  38. TK_NYY October 7th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Timh – The article is linked on, I think its credible.

  39. CaptainsCorner October 7th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    I dont believe the parts about Torre and Arod one bit. He probably spoke about the bugs and umpire but that wasnt interesting enough so the other stuff had to be added. From the bits and pieces that he has said threw the last coupe of years he said that he loved Arod…and now it is on his shoulders. I also dont think he would talk about Torre not coming back. The same person who he had lunch with the other day. These commnets would come out after they lost not before.

  40. yankee21 October 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pm

    Tk,… The Mantra is win the WS, anything else is a failure. Most reasonable people realize thats absurd, but 3 years in a row of getting whipped in the 1st round is unacceptable…

    It is not just getting bounced out of the playoffs in the 1st round, it is the way they lose,,, eerily similar to the Cubs and Phillies, life-less, outmanaged, slow to respond, just freaking dead looking. I pay $200 mil for a roster I say publicly I want championships, I say privately to the team winning it all is an extremely challenging goal but I expect you to die trying!! When was the last time the Yankees lost a playoff game yet died trying, laying it all out on the field like a recent example, the Padres vs. Rockies for the wild card====well?? When was the last time this team laid it all out on the line in the play-offs?

  41. Tommy October 7th, 2007 at 12:31 pm


    the interview was done over the phone, which explains the minimal tone of the interview.
    Bottom line: If the Yanks lose this series, Mr T should go.
    He gets far too much credit for 96-00, and far too much blame for PS failure since.
    A manager in the AL, and especially the Yanks, has very little to do besides pitching decisions.
    That said, Joe was involved in one of the most crucial pitching decisions in Yankee history; placing Mo in the bullpen for good.
    Still think he should have been fired last year for the Arod batting order brouhaha.
    Now I actuall hope he remains, since that means the Yanks will have advanced to face the Sox.
    Even though I never warmed to him as a Yank, I’ll root hard for RC, cause of team loyalty, no matterr who runs the show, or who wears the pinstripes.

  42. TimH October 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    It’s difficult to know exactly what was asked of GS to elicit some of these comments. I would love to see the text in it’s unedited entirety. O’Connor has not been a friend of the Yankees in quite a few articles during the course of this season. You can believe whatever you wish. I’m skeptical and believe certain questions were asked to attain these answers and I would like to know what they were.

  43. PittsburghYankeeFan October 7th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    It’s about time. Damn, it’s about time. Where has he been the past few years?

    Sure, he’s not the same guy, but this is his team, and the state of baseball in 2007 is due in large part to him.

    It’s like a guy with Alzheimer’s having a few hours of sanity.

    At the game, in his box, overlooking the field in a must win game, after this statement…perfect.

    Yes, it’s not the 70s, 80s, and 90s, but this team needs this. Nothing else has seemed to work in the postseason lately. It’s his team, and he can do what he wants.

    I love Joe like the rest of you, but like Stengel, the time may be up. Again, I think Joe takes the high road and retires.

    Thankfully, he said nothing about Cashman. Cashman he needs, and Hal et al know that.

  44. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    CaptainsCorner -

    Are you accusing O’Connor of fabricating those quotes? What’s wrong with you?

  45. PittsburghYankeeFan October 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    Yankee 21

    They laid it on the line Friday–at least Pettite and Mo did. They got outpitched (barely) and had some bad luck in the 8th. It happens.

    However, they are slow on both the transition from ST to regular season and from regular season to playoffs lately. That rests with the manager.

  46. Mark October 7th, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    As the highest paid player A-Rod will always be the most scurtinized player, but it seems that Jorge Posada is getting a free pass here and shares just as much, if not more or the blame. That 3-0 swing at ball four, followed up by two additional lousy swings, then those feeble atempts at trying to catch Rivera and Chamberlain, Posada is starting to play like his age. I know they’ll re-sign him since there aren’t many viable options, but he gets too much credit and not enough blame.

  47. Bryan October 7th, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    Posada, Rivera, Pettitte, Guidry, Pena, Bowa, etc, etc will leave if Torre is not there not to mention the possible free agents whom come just to play for him on the recommendations of past or present ballplayers. To think otherwise is nothing short of naive. Will also be interesting to see what then happens to Cashman either now or on his terms next year as HE is just as responsible for their success or failure as Torre is.

    Bobby Cox, Joe Paterno, et al have been at their jobs for quite some time come good or bad and there is a reason for that and none of it has to do with a senile owner whose days of running anything on a day to day basis have long since passed him !

  48. Kill-Schill(ing) October 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    Anyone who thinks the Yankees can challenge for a WS anytime soon without Posada and Rivera next year is either irrational, deluded, or willfully blind.

    Perhaps many of you didn’t live through the late 80′s and early 90′s when Steinbrenner’s capricious scapegoating of players and managers turned the Yankees into the laughing stock of professional sports.

    Incidentally, had Steinbrenner not wasted the 2003 off-season courting Gary Sheffield and spent it instead re-assuring Andy Pettitte how desperately the Yankees needed him, the Yankees wouldn’t have blown a 3-0 lead to the Red Sux while pitching Kevin Brown and Javier Vasquez and John Lieber.

    The reason the Yankees haven’t made it past the ALCS since ’03 the division series since ’05 isn’t because of Joe Torre’s management decisions, it’s because the Red Sox in ’04, the Angels in ’05, the Tigers in ’06 and the Indians in ’07 had better starting pitching.

    The Yankees are 1-6 (See Verduci for this stat) in elimination games since Game 7 of the ’04 ALCS because they’ve had to rely on the following pitchers:

    ’04– Game 7– Kevin Brown and Javier Vasquez–surrendered 8 runs in 2 innings

    ’05– Game 5– Mike Mussina surrenders 5 runs in 2 2/3 innings.

    ’06– Jared Wright and Corey Lidle surrender 6 runs in 4 innings.

    The last time the Yankees received a great pitching performance in an elimination game, it was from Shawn Chacon in Game 4 in ’05.

    Let’s hope Roger can duplicate that effort.


  49. edgar October 7th, 2007 at 12:50 pm

    the thing i don’t understand is, who could they possibly hire that wouldn’t be a huge downgrade? it’s like when mets fans complain about wagner, and you say, who else would you want? you really think a-rod and matsui are going to produce if you scream at them more? ridiculous. this was torre’s best season, and there’s no way the yankees would’ve pulled out of their nosedive if they had a screamer as manager. screamers lose their teams when they don’t pull out of a slide quickly. look at ozzie guillen this year.

    if he has to go, i hope they get more of a new school, numbers guy.

  50. G. Love October 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Torre’s inaction during the 8th inning Friday night convinced me he’s no longer an asset to this team.

    I think they can win in spite of him, but I no longer think he’s helping them win ballgames with his acumen.

    If he goes, I’ll be sad to see an era end, but at the same token I’ll be much more excited to see someone else take the reins of this club. Torre has been/looked lost since Zimmer left the bench. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that when Zimmer left the organization, Torre stopped making decisions a certain way.

    Do I think Zim was the real manager of the team? No. Of course not. But I think he had no qualms with voicing his opinion and giving Torre options that Torre got to choose from. I’m shocked that Bowa or Pena didn’t tell Joe to go out there and delay the game when Joba got attacked by the bugs. If they did tell Joe to do that and he ignored their advice, he deserves to be fired.

    I think Joe’s gotten a little too in love with the Yankee mystique and aura and ghosts and I think he thinks he just has to sit there and do nothing and something amazing will happen.

    It’s just shocking when a manager who would tell Wade Boggs and Tino to sit on the bench in the playoffs now is incapable of telling a broken down Matsui to do the same. It’s a disgrace.

  51. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    “Who started this rumor that all these guys would leave anyway, just nonsense.”

    One of them is Pete and he cotinues to say this, incluidng in today’s article in Journal.

  52. Mark October 7th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    It would be a foolish move if Torre plays Giambi at 1b so he can still put Matsui in the lineup. Does Torre forget that atrocity Giambi displayed against the Redsux? And if he wants to bet his NYY managing career with Matsui, then maybe its time for Torre to starting thinking about where hes going to manage after Cashman fires him for stupidity. Let Giambi DH and sit Matsui!

  53. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    No matter what happens, if Torre is not re-signed, it will have much greater ramifications than at first glance. Right away, Posada, Rivera, and A-Rod will not negotiate with us. Pettitte will decline his player option. Jeter will lose not just a group of great teammates, but some of his best friends. He will become disgruntled and his play will decline as a result. Bowa, Guidry, and Pena all leave. The rotation and bullpen will have no veteran leadership whatsoever.

    This could be catastrophic for the immediate future of the franchise. I think it’s a moot point since I think they come back to take this series, but if they don’t, hopefully the people around Big Stein talk him out of this yet again.

  54. Mauro October 7th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    The record is the second largest newspaper in NJ, I believe the Star Ledger has a greater circulation

    That being said… I think even if torre leaves the core of the team will be intact. There is little historical precedent for an entire team to bolt after a manager is fired. Mo & Jorge may love Torre but they aren’t going to risk their financial security or their Yankees legacies for the man

  55. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    And will people please stop saying Joe will be fired? (Mark)! His contract is up after this year, it’s a matter of not re-signing him not firing him! The amount of uneducated fans we have around here sometimes is staggering!

  56. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    “I think even if torre leaves the core of the team will be intact. There is little historical precedent for an entire team to bolt after a manager is fired. Mo & Jorge may love Torre but they aren’t going to risk their financial security or their Yankees legacies for the man.”

    Real common sense statement….

  57. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    BBFan -

    Yeah seriously, I thought the same thing when I read that. Like Big Stein really takes “historical precedent” into account. Please…

  58. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 1:12 pm


    You are right, it is not firing.
    It is simply parting ways.
    I have been saying that all along.
    If it comes to that (I believe it will barring WS appearance), I hope both parties come up with a statement that is amicable for both parties.

  59. CaptainsCorner October 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    I hope it is true because I really think Uncle Joe has to go. But when this series ends we will see what happens, if he is fired then we know it was true. I dont understand why people are saying that every single player is leaving if Torre isnt here. They are on this team to play for the Yanks. So what Posada and Rivera are gonna go play for the Royals because there manager isnt here? I like how Posada doesnt get blame for anything because he is having a good offensive year. Swinging 3-1 and 3-2 at ball 4. With Joba pitching the other night those balls or atleast 1 of them should of been blocked!!! He is extremely slow and lazy behind the plate. If the ball is not thrown right to him he wont move for it. Molina would of had those pitches.

    Matsui better be on the bench tonight!! Enough of Torres your my guy bull. The guy hasnt done a thing in a month and looks like the pitcher batting up there. If the Yanks need a DP then they can call on him. Giambi DH, Mienk. 1st base. NO Giambi at 1st base we do not need a Charlie Brown moment.

  60. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    “Yeah seriously, I thought the same thing when I read that. Like Big Stein really takes “historical precedentâ€? into account. Please…”

    It is not about what Big Stein takes into account. It is about these crazy statements that every one leaves if Torre leaves. That is insane.

    We do not have to aargue about now, we will witness what really will happen.

  61. Global Warming October 7th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    “Mo & Jorge may love Torre but they aren’t going to risk their financial security or their Yankees legacies for the man.”

    There are easily teams out there who can afford Posada and Mo. Gone are the days where the Yankees can overpay everybody and scare all potential suitors away.

    The Mets specifically would pounce on Posada if given the chance.

    Oh, and I doubt their legacies would be tainted if they left to another team to finish their careers. C’mon now, be real.

  62. Khoa October 7th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Who else is out there? Donnie Baseball seems like Torre Jr. and how would Girardi command the same level of respect from Jeter, Jorge and other former teammates? As a former collegiate athlete, I know that its very difficult to take marching orders from a former teammate at times. Kinda like the whole friend getting promoted to boss at work situation.

  63. TimH October 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    I don’t think either would leave (Jorge, Mo), unless for the Mets, you know how the wives hate to move furniture and risk damaging it.

  64. BBFan October 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pm


    If we have to go by some entries here, other than Joe no one else on this earth is suitable or qualified to manage Yankees…….

    I wonder, when clueless Joe was hired, how many felt that he would have the success he had, given he was a career losing manager before.

  65. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    I don’t know, I just think it’s pretty naive to assume some of these guys might not jump ship. Pettitte for sure will not be back – Torre was a major part of the reason he came back to pitch at all. Posada has been saying all season he’s looking forward to his first time as a free agent. There’s no way to know for now, but I’d be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best.

  66. JJNJ October 7th, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    Didn’t really expect to see this on the front page of our Sunday paper lol. At first I was irritated by the timing, but the more I thought about it, I’m glad it’s out there. I’m sick of seeing a lifeless, almost heartless team every year when the playoffs hit. Maybe this will give them something to play for.

    Oh and IF Mo & Jorge walk if Joe doesn’t come back – screw them. Hate to say that, but obviously it would mean they don’t give a rat’s behind about the fans.

  67. Jay Yankees October 7th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    George has every reason and RIGHT to say and express his opinion about what’s at stake for Torre and the rest of this team (including Cash). I guess there are a lot of “employees attitudes” here on this board. If you’re an owner who’s paying TOP Dollar, the highest payroll in the league, wouldn’t you feel you’ve earned that right??
    gimme a break. Did you know that KC,Pittsburg, FL, even Tampa Bay all could afford to pay at least 25-50% more in their payrolls per year but they don’t? think about those fans. They’re outta of contention as soon as April 1st starts!!

    Also,We Yankee fans need to remember that we’re also paying one of the highest tickets and concessions in the league! so we do deserve better than getting knocked out of the first round in the past two years by teams who simply are hungrier and better managed than Torre.

  68. The D train October 7th, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    Whether these are the actual words of George or prepared by Howard Rubenstein, the Record broke the story and like most media reports in the NY metro area, it will carry some shockwaves. The timing of the article may be to serve notice or prepare the players and fans that change is coming.
    If the players are so hellbent on their manager, they’ll run the gamut to the hilt. If not, then Torre couldn’t push the right buttons.
    George (and his sons) are well aware that 2008 is the last year of the old Stadium plus the All Star game and may be setting the wheels in motion for a busy offseason.

  69. GO NYY October 7th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    After 187 days, 164 games, and 1476 innings, the end is finally here. WOOHOOOOOOHOOOO. What a Relief!

    These last 9 innings, we should enjoy them.

  70. Rebecca--27 in 07! Nothing beats Optimism! October 7th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    So who’s watching Jets and Giants?

  71. Nick L. October 7th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    MJL -

    All potentail free agents say they want to test the market and get the experience of it but when all is said and done, Mo and Posada will be back to finish their careers as Yankees and paid well to do it.
    Andy Pettitte has given no indication that he won’t be back and pronounced himself healthy yesterday. He’ll take his option and be part of the last Yankee team in the old Stadium then possibly retire.

  72. GO YANKS! October 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    As a diehard Yankees fan, I believe they deserve a manager who can help them get past the first round in the playoffs. I have admired Torre over the years, but I think his time has come, even if they get to the WS (here’s hoping!) I watch every game and am more and more frustrated with his passive approach. Over this season, I’m certain I’ve seen him nodding off increasingly during games. He’s hampered the team by his inaction (don’t get me started on the bug situation)or action (so many times he’s mismanaged the bullpen). Who’s to say someone else couldn’t do better? (Not Girardi or clone Mattingly) But I think Joe’s time has come. He can’t be rehired based on his past laurels. That wouldn’t happen in any job I know of.
    Here’s hoping the boys show what “their made of”

  73. ellen October 7th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Buckle up, boys, it’s gonna be a bumpy night.

  74. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Nick –

    Your optimism is inspiring but I’ve been speculating in the case Torre is not brought back. I wouldn’t be as confident as you are, if that’s what ends up happening.

  75. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    MLB better hope the Yankees don’t get knocked out. Look at the NLCS match up. D-backs vs Rockies, that doesn’t exactly look like a great match up. If the Yankees get knocked out, I for one won’t watch one minute of the post season.

  76. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    I just got home, i’m watching it now. What happened to Coles? Is he okay?

  77. Mike NYY- 27 in '07 October 7th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Go Giants!

  78. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    GO JETS!

  79. sunny615 October 7th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    i’m less than optimistic about winning the ALDS. If they can pull off another 98 or 01, I’ll be the first to eat my words… but this hill just became mt everest after game 2. That was a game we should have won but didn’t. Time to look forward to 08… sigh.

  80. Rebecca--27 in 07! Nothing beats Optimism! October 7th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    Coles is fine, just made one hell of a catch!

  81. ramar October 7th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    To MJL, take a “Chill Pill”. The sky will not fall. Change is inevitable, good, and overdue. Go Yanks into the future…

  82. Bill Clinton October 7th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Anyone see Hillary? She’s usually trolling around Delcos’ blog trying to look smart and groveling for attention, but they say she hasn’t been that way since her Yankees started to sputter. Um, wonder why? Tell her I’m looking for her, ok? She needs to take her meds or else she’ll really go off the deep end. Thanks a bunch.

  83. Jones October 7th, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    Kill-Schill(ing) – You’re absolutely right. The drought is due to lack of pitching. Bottom line. And the responsiblity for that falls squarely on Cashman’s shoulders. Not Torre!

  84. MJL October 7th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Ramar -

    Thanks for the tip, I don’t think I’ve heard the term “chill pill” since I was 5 years old. I’m merely speculating, as everyone else on this blog does every single day, but luckily we have you here to keep things in check.

  85. Enoch October 7th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    Whether he’s right or not, George’s timing is crap.

    Not fair to Joe or the players.

  86. Jesse October 7th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    If as East Side Yankee says that Ian O’Connor has been used to do stories at the Boss’s behest, then I think he has a new puppet string puller.

    I don’t believe for a minute that the Boss all of a sudden decided or was able to suddenly do an interview when he hasn’t spoke for months previously or rarely been seen in public.

    I think that if the Boss was still capable of being the boss he most likely would have left Torre go in May and that Arod would be getting an earful ala Dave Winfield for another postseason meltdown.

    This sounds like someone in the Yankee organization engaging in floating a trail ballon about what might occur in the off season.

    As for the players leaving if Torre goes, ha! These players follow the money never mind loyalty.

  87. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

    Coles is da man!

  88. Rebecca--27 in 07! Nothing beats Optimism! October 7th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    That, my friends, was beautiful!


  89. Skeeter October 7th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Uh, this is not good….say good-bye to Joe. The Yankees are down 0-2 with Westbrook, Sabathia and Carmona set up against their dead bats. It doesn’t look good.

    And if Joe leaves, you can bet Andy, Mo and Posada will be gone too. And probably A-Rod….

  90. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Nice throw Peyton.. oops Eli.

  91. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Geez, I thought we got rid of Herman. What the heck was that play?

  92. Bob October 7th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    Everyone assumes Torre leaving would mean Mo, Posada, etc., will leave too.

    I don’t buy that.

    Did Torre leave when Zimmer and Stottlemyre were let go?

    At the end of the day if these guys want to be Yankees, they will stay regardless of Torre being here or not.

  93. Jeff NJ October 7th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    Skeeter, the Indians aren’t using Sabathia on short rest, so the Yankees need to win with Clemens over Byrd then Wang over Westbrook to get it back to Cleveland where Pettitte will face down Sabathia and the gnats.

  94. gayle October 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    It truly is amazing to me that some people believe that these quotes were made up, that the interview didnt ahppen and if it did it happened with someone else and that the quotes were just attributed to George.

    Ian O’Connor is a long term well respected reporter why would he make up quotes and put his reputation on the line? George does what he wants when he wants if you recall he gave an interview whent he team was doing poorly to a business AP reporter out of Virginia no one questioned those quotes who asked if they were made up. Just because you do not like the quotes or do not like the timing doesnt make them less true or less accurate.

    I have long been a Torre supporter and believe that what he does makes a HUGe difference in that room but have also been following the Yankees long enough to never be suprised when George makes comments or what he has to say. INfact these quotes sound like the Geiorge I am used to hearing certainly more than the usual publicity drivel that comes out of Howard Rubenstein’s office.

  95. scarletknight64 October 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    If the Yankees dont make it thru this round, you can thank Cashman for his lousy bullpen, non-existent bench in the first part of the season, mistaken hire of conditioning coach and poor off-season moves along with whatever Torre is to be blamed for.

    If George wants to clean house, fine by me but Cashman has to go.

  96. catya October 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

    “DA BOSS” may not always be right,but he’s always “DA BOSS.”

  97. Bob Michaels October 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

    Where is Bill Madden?

  98. _ryan October 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    I’ve grown tired of Joe’s expressionless sipping of Bigelow tea. I love Joe and appreciate all he’s done but it’s just time for him to go. The team needs a new face/energy and his name is Joe Girardi.


  99. Rebecca--27 in 07! Nothing beats Optimism! October 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pm



  100. neil October 7th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    doesn’t giradi have a WS ring as a player in 1996

  101. Juice October 7th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    can we get a lineup yet? I’m dying from curiosity out here.

  102. Joe from Long Island October 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    I don’t think Cash is going anywhere.

    You can go on about faulty rosters, poor bullpen (by the way, almost everyone is desperate for middle-innnig relief), or whatever. The reason why the Steinbrenner family likes him is that they are looking at their expenses going down, while income from the new ballpark, etc.,and profitability are going up. Why are expenses projected to go down? Because of the young players and pitchers that have come up and will come up.

    Adding Wang, Cano, and Cabrera didn’t add big contracts. Neither did they have to pay market price for Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, or Duncan, all of whom contributed to the playoff run. Further, the farm system is still stocked with young pitchers with pretty good ceilings; the position players still need to be worked on. And, yes, I know that Damon Oppenheimer has a big role in all of this, also, but it was all on Cash’s watch.

    This is the plan that Cash put into place when he demanded greater authority in the organization, and the Steinbrenner family, while not talent evaluators, know dollars and sense. As far as they are concerned, whatever fix he had to make, he made without coming to them for more money. Clemens? George wanted Roger, and was willing to pay for him because of a)for Roger’s star power, and b)to keep him away from Boston.

    So while a new manager may be in order after 12 years, Cashman will still be running the baseball operation.

  103. gayle October 7th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    well I am off to the park lets hope we all have something great to talk about tomorrow. I will try to check in from the game but going through all the comments on a blackberry is insufferable

  104. The D train October 7th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    This is not like Tampa Bay or some other low profile area. A-Rod, Mo, and Jorge thrive on the pulse and energy that the NYC area and Yankee fans bring. When their careers are finished, they can low key things if they choose. Their agents will posture and all else that they do but in the final analysis, they’ll be press conferences at the Stadium with the Yankee logo in the back of the podium and it won’t be to announce they’re headed elsewhere because Joe Torre won’t be coming back.

  105. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    Joe I hope you’re right, that is one my biggest fears (if we lose) that Cash will be gone. And whoever comes in would look to blow this up. I want to see the Hughes, Kennedys, Jobas pitch for us!, Not someone else. I don’t want to see some new gm come in and look to make a big trade splash. I wouldn’t be very happy if they traded our big name kids for an overated Dontrell willis.

  106. Laura October 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pm

    Guys, has it occurred to anyone that this is a very calculated move on George’s part? He’s not as dumb and senile as the reports would have you think. He made this comment to get under the player’s skin. He knows how loyal those guys are to Torre. He’s thinking that if they think that Joe is gone if they lose, they will play their hearts out to win just to save his job. Let’s hope his strategy works.

  107. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    Um Laura, wouldn’t they play hard to win anyway? You don’t think they want to advance to the alcs?

  108. catya October 7th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    since Zimmer and Stottlemyre left we’ve not made it past the 1st round. What does that suggest?

    LOOK there’s not a true Yankee fan that wishes Joe any ill will. We want him to dig deep,and coach (or at least try)
    to win.

    It would be insane to have pitchers in the pen and players
    on the bench that were never used,that could’ve impacted the game.(use that$200,000,000. payroll)

    Joe have one of the best games of your career tonight.


  109. Ed October 7th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    This season would have been over long ago without JoeTorre.

  110. scarletknight64 October 7th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    I’m not saying Cashman will go. And I agree that he’s managing the finances probably to the family’s wishes. But George still wants a winner.

    What I am saying is he should go, if they lose. Remember he’s not that untouchable because the same George who spoke today said in the spring that Cashman (not Torre) is on a “big hook” when the team was sputtering, largely as George could see, as a result of Cashman’s poor decisions.

    Cashman has a very cute way of leaking out that he wasnt involved in this or that bad decision in the past because he had no control so that none of the past decisions that didnt work out were his doing. Nonsense.

    If they lose, clean house, period. Any half-way decent adminstrator can manage the finances just as well by going the farm route, avoiding big-ticket free agents, etc. So that skill is not hard to find

    Make Billy Beane an offer he cant refuse. See if Stick will come back for a couple of years and groom a successor. Get a GM from a successful franchise somewhere else with a keen eye for evaluating talent.

    And I’m glad Steinbrenner said he will make the call on A-Rod because Cashman already stupidly said they’d let A-Rod walk if he opts out because of the loss of Texas money. A-Rod means something to the brand beyond just his payroll impact. Cashman is a bureaucrat. They can do much much better.

  111. myrtlebeachfan October 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    Hopefully this lights a fire under the Torre loyalists and we win these next three games.

    Good move by Stein. He definitely did this strategically. Definitely.

  112. Mike NYY- 27 in '07 October 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    This season would have been over long ago without JoeTorre.

    Torre blew at least 6 games this seasont hey otherwise would have had a chance to win. He overused Proctor and forced Cashman to trade him. Vizcaino is finished because he`s been overworked to. He`s killing them


    Nice interception by the Giants. THey`re gonna win this one

  113. Mark October 7th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    Joe from Long Island:

    Excellent post and very factual. “Stick” Michael has been Cashman’s mentor and at the point likes what he sees of his pupil. The groundwork has been done and has started to see fruition this year and more to come. Anything worthwhile takes some time.

  114. jennifer 27 in 07 October 7th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    Nice int? HUH? That was a terrible throw by Chad, I could have int that.

  115. Mike NYY- 27 in '07 October 7th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Nice int? HUH? That was a terrible throw by Chad, I could have int that

    Nice for the Giants wasn’t it? Just because it was easy doesn’t nean it doesn’t help them

  116. bh blue October 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    GO GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!

  117. bh blue October 7th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    GO GIANTS, GO E JR, GO YANKS, this could be a good day all the way around

  118. Donna October 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    Every time he opens his mouth without Rubenstein present, Steinbrenner shows what a befuddled mess he’s become.

  119. Michelle October 7th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    Cashman went to bat to keep Torre for 2007 and although George said Cashman was “on a hook”, it was he that provided Joba and others from the system and dealt to get Jose Molina. This it what gave the team the spark for Torre to succeed in making the playoffs. Torre would have been content to wing it with Nieves, Proctor, Myers, and Phelps. Six years of no cigar just won’t cut it. George wants at least one more championship before he leaves this world and he can’t be faulted for that.

  120. bh blue October 7th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Jets and Mets it rhymes and they both come out of the same mold. Both chokers. Sorry girls but that is the way it is

  121. Big Blue reigns October 7th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    Good clock management will see the G-Men prevail in the battle of the Meadowlands…

  122. Joe M October 7th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Redsins 34 Lions 3 Go skins

  123. Joe M October 7th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Lions 0-21 in Washington

  124. Gregg M. October 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

    The Bergen County Record ? Largest Newspaper in Bergen County , I’m sure. LOL.I’m from South Joisey and we don’t have that papers circulation here.

    Regardless of where Mr. Steinbrenners comments were publically announced, I feel as though he is entitled to make his remarks as he sees fit. We will all recall last year about how Mr. Steinbrenner gave pause about bringing Joe back for the final year of his contract.

    Apparantly, with the ’04 collapse and reaching the play-offs since 2000 with all of the early exits,I have to presume these are compelling arguments for Mr. Steinbrenner to release Joe Torre.

    I think Joe Torre has been a terrific manager for the greatest team in sports. I, myself wish that we would see Joe manage just one more year. But maybe familiarty, time and the recognition that a fresh breeze needs to blow through the ” House that Ruth built ” have conspired to move the Yankees forward to a new beginning.

    Joe Torres legacy will be enduring. He is the common man, uncommonly immortalized in Yankee history.

    It could be worse.

    We could be Red Sox fans.

    Thanks for all of the great memories , Joe.

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