That’s the season
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 08, 2007 
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SAD SAD DAY, if they fire Joe they aren’t just losing him they are losing there players and probably some of there fans,
.
This is not the way Joe deserves to go out.
Thanks for a great season Pete.
It is unbelievable how completely different the Yankees played this postseason compared to the season.
Best team in baseball since the All Star break? They sure didn’t look like it.
As much as I love Torre, I can’t say I’m disappointed that there are going to be some major changes coming up. This has been too many disappointing postseasons. Too many Octobers where the Yanks just stop playing well.
The Indians deserved it this time. I just hope they beat Boston.
Thanks for the excellent blog, Pete. See ya in April.
The Fat Lady Sang.How Sad.
Your New York Braves!
just plain terrible
1. The day the Yankees are eliminated
2. Christmas
“At least they went down swinging.” That’s little comfort, Pete.
John Lennon said it best; the dream is over.
Peter,
Thanks for your blog work. I was excellent. Now to drown my sorrow in beer.
disgraceful.. horrid.. totally embarrassing. The RedSox are going to slaughter the indians and really rub it in the Yankee’s faces. Don’t be surprised if they don’t sweep them.
I pray that this team gets completely reorganized.
Time for a new manager, and new young no name blood.. forget all these old veteran sleepers…
F*** you George Steinbrenner
Do you guys really sit here waiting to post when we lose? I don;’t do that on Sox boards. Seriously, watch the news or something.
And sincerely, good luck in the ALCS, if you’re Sox fans.
Why should Torre quit? He has no reason to quit on his team. If Torre goes, our chances of re-signing our key guys goes along with him.
Great comeback to get into the playoffs….Terrible choice to “limp” in, instead of going for the division crown….to lose 3-1 to the Indians in the first round is a disgrace, but don’t be surprised to see little change next year. Trade Wang though, get his most value in the offseason. The Yankees don’t need any more players that excel in the Regular Season, just to look like cr@p in the PostSeason. Good to see A-Rod put up some decent PostSeason numbers and Jeter HAS to do better next year. For me, baseball is over. I won’t watch another game. My Hate for Boston will remain until I draw my last breath, so I only hope that CLE Sweeps them and the entire team comes down with the Nastiest Stomach Flu ever.
Thanks for all the fun and insights, Pete. Have a good off-season. Should be a lot of hot stove league action this fall and winter for you to cover.
Pete, great job with the blog this year. We look forward to next year. Hopefully with better results. I agree with you that Torre should pre-empt Mr. S and just announce his departure. No need to drag it out.
Jeter was horrible. I guess it rubbed off from Mr. Anti-October. The whole team was just putrid except for MO, and Robby and flashes of the old Johnny D here and there.
My wife is going to hate having me around for a few days…but we’ll be ok. We’ll come back next year with a great pitching staff with the kids (Joba, Huges and Olendorf) and Pettite and Wang.
As for Arod, good riddance. Get Miguel Cabrera!!
All the best.
The Red Sox will knock Paul Byrd out by the 3rd inning, mark it down.
Yet another post season where the Yankee batter were always looking for the 8 run HR on every swing. No patience, no timely hitting, nothing… Is Joe to blame? Probably not, but he’s been one of the constants on the losing teams since 2000.
Fun year, too bad it ended this way. At least, I can now follow the Rangers in peace.
Alright, it is over for this season.
Next year looks bright.
Joe deserves to go, but he deserves a dignified exit.
There are so many here who stuck with the team during good and bad times along with me. Thank you.
Pete, thank you for the blog. You really put in lot of effort into it.
Have a good night.
baseball isnt over yet! go rockies!
Man, over a billion just doesn’t buy what it used to…
hahahaha
WANG!!!!!!
MY hero!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
suckers.
the indians got the breaks, batting over 500 with runners in scoring position is freakish…
seven consecutive postseason failures. didn’t even make it out of the first round the past three years.
did some say bring Torre back so we can bring back *key* guys…????? Uhm, please tell me who was key?????
Paul Byrd and Joe Borowski is better than anything Red Sox can throw at us. Lucky Red Sox. Or we will sweep them in 4 games.
whoever the moron was who doesn’t have the balls to post there name at least our team did better then your Royals, you moron!!!!
I wasn’t waiting around to post. The inspiration just hit me when I saw the Yankee fans bawling.
Good thing you guys signed Roger this year.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
If Torre is indeed gone, a part of my childhood goes with it. I just hope Arod, Posada, Mo come back.
If anything good can come out of this…its that Joba, Hughes, Shelley, Cabrera, and Cano showed that they can succeed in October.
This just plain sucks. Go Indians though, I think I’ll go nuts if the Red Sox win the World Series.
Pete terrific job with site. Thank you for the information and sounding board you’ve provided us all thoroughout the year. I look forward to updates during the off-season.
The Yankees… well it’s a long-term relationship.
I dont know about ya’ll but for me, yankees=joe torre, it wont be the same without him
I=It
I don’t necessarily mind a change of managers. But I hope we don’t return to changing managers every season or two.
a couple things.
1.Pete, great blog, you and everyone on here have made me even more of a die hard fan than I was.
2. Most people counted the Yankees out, and they still got in and had a few fireworks.
3. This was a pretty good year for a ‘rebuilding year’
4. How many days till pitchers and catchers report?
See you all next time around.
Pete – thanks for hte blog – still hope Joe comes back – the future is good for starting pitching and let Po and Mo finish in pinstripes – maybe A-Rod wil relax next year now taht he hit the homer.
Thanks for the time and effort put into the blog, Pete. It’s deeply appreciated.
Somehow, I don’t think you’ll lack for news (and readers) in the off-season.
thanks a lot for the blog this year pete, it was a mainstay for me everyday.
in all honesty, you CANNOT trade Wang. i love how everyones saying that we need to use homegrown talent, then in the same breathe, they’re beggin cashman to trade Wang.
trade him for WHAT? another 19 game winner? sheer stupidity spews from a person’s lips during their saddest moments.
in all honesty, the yankees need a NUMBER 1 starter with STRIKEOUT potential and overpowering stuff. Wang is the definition of a #2 starter, but no need to throw him off the bridge when he pitched well for us last year (in the postseason too) and this year.
Our rotation next year should be Petitte, Wang, Hughes, Joba, and someone else. the Yanks need to move Moose to the pen or go out and get some bullpen help.
anyways i’m done being aggrivated, thanks for takin the time for everything Pete your a good guy and thanks for the blog!!
“did some say bring Torre back so we can bring back key guys…????? Uhm, please tell me who was key?????”
Have to agree with this. I really think the smart move is to let loyalties go, and clean out as much aging dead wood as possible.
The Yankees make the opposing pitchers look like Cy Young since 2001.torre did a poor job in the series,he stretched jaba in game 2 when the kid was teetering ,today with Wang. Jeter ,matsui,posada ,just awful.
End of an era folks. Keep your heads high.. This team did a lot during it’s run.
Thanks for the awesone year, Pete. Truly enjoyed your blog.
My opinion is all that are in question will be back next year….er, except for Clemens.
I posted this on the game thread – but wanted to post it here as well:
All – it’s been fun. Nice ride there in the second half of the season.
So many lost opportunities. But some real bright spots this season and hopefully we can pass the baton to the next generation of Yankee greats.
Enjoy the off season!
Pete – Thanks for your excellent blogging. You’ve been great and this has certainly been the place to be. Do you get some time off now?
LISTENING TO TORRE NOW. “THEY HAVE A GREAT FUTURE” “SOMETHING DIFFERENT FOR THE YANKEES.” I think he knows he’s gone.
Yanks need to look into getting rid of Jeter, he is by far the worst team player ever. You can just see the jealousy he has for A-rod.
what a bum he is, his last clutch hit was in 2001, he hasnt done anything since then.
Wang should be ashamed of his effort in this postseason and the series falls completely on his shoulders.
it was an interesting season. have a good winter everyone.
go cowboys!
go chelsea!
“Have to agree with this. I really think the smart move is to let loyalties go, and clean out as much aging dead wood as possible.”
Agree. Posada at 13 million/year for 3 more years is almost crazy, and giving Mo that much for just as long almost scares me as much when you look at what happened to Mussina this year. I let Abreu walk and see what you can get midrange on the FA/trade market.
There is nothing for Torre to quit. As of right now, he no longer is under contract with the Yankees.
They simply will not offer him a new deal. Its not complicated.
They are trending downward and they have been for the last 4 postr-seasons. Somebody is going to take the hit for that and Torre deserves as much (not all) blame as anybody.
Bottom line, to make the changes this team needs to make, as they transition to the future, it has to start at the top.
You want more aggressive baseball, hire a more aggressive manager. Or, a hungrier one.
Please, can all this “Cleveland is a better team” garbage. The Yankees OWNED this team in the regular season.
They, in their current construction, is a simply AWFUL post-season team.
That’s why there will be changes, as there should be. Its time.
Tee Time?
Check
Golf Spikes?
Check
Clubs
Check
Empty Schedule for the End of October?
Check, check, check, check.
Roughly 135 days till pitchers and catchers report!
I’m disappointed that the Yanks lost but it was a good season nonetheless. Next year they will be in a much better position to advance further as the pitching should be much better next year. Hopefully Brian Cashman doesn’t do anything rash and trade half of the farm system for Johan.
I’ll be rooting for the Tribe in the next series and they can beat the Red Sox.
Please. Bring back Joe and ARod. They are NOT the reason why we failed in the postseason. Bad, bad mistake to not have them back.
Wow, Lil’ Jimmy Norden, front run much?
Hey, it was a great season to see them come back in the second half the way they did. Nobody expected us to even get anywhere near the postseason.
A lot of cool peeps here over the season that I’ve enjoyed posting with, and I’ll look forward to posting during the offseason with you as well.
As far as changes go – nothing is written in stone. Steinbrenner may deliver ultimatums, but he is not an idiot. If he stands to lose some of his best players that he adores (Rivera, Posada, Pettitte) by kicking Joe to the curb, he’s going to have to weigh everything. Hypothetical question – if ARod says he’ll come back next year as long as Joe is managing, what does Big Stein do? You know he doesn’t want to lose Alex to another team when he could break HR records in pinstripes. Just food for thought.
Anyway – life goes on and there could be exciting things going on during the offseason. We have a lot of great young talent to continue to build on in ’08. And Pete – thanks for a tremendous job covering the Yanks this year – I hope that we are fortunate enough to have you covering them for a long time to come.
Peace out, peeps.
I’ll miss you Joe thanks for the good and the bad
Wang I’d seriously trade you this offseason and again congrats to the NY Yankees for the season they gave us eras end but new ones can begin.
Thank you everybody I will miss game to game blogging w/ you all.
and LETS GO YANKEES
So….who sits in the dugout next year? Donnie Baseball? Girardi? LaRussa? The moldering corpse of Billy Martin?
Name two guys on the Indians that make over 16 million a year…. You can’t!
Now and if were going to retain Choke-Rod we’d better give him 10 million dollar incentive to get us to the ALCS/WS for a change – What’s he 0-4
Pete, great site. Even as an opposing fan, I have yet to see a more complete and thorough baseball blog on the internet.
Yankee fans are very lucky to have you.
Props to you Peter for an outstanding blog. The offseason promises to be an extremely busy one and this blog will be a lively one with much banter toward what the future holds and the changes that go with it.
GO YANKEES IN 2008 AND BEYOND !!
OPTIMISM RULES !!
Please no one forget, these MLB playoffs are a complete crapshoot. Especially these 5 game playoffs. No one is going to blow this thing up, ARod will be back, Posada will be back, Mo will be back. If we are lucky, we can trade Damon and move Jeter to CF. Matsui will probably move to 1st. All in all, though, it will be much the same squad, just with a whole season of Joba and Hughes as starters. Oh yeah, and a new (hate to say it, probably better) manager. I like our chances next year.
What is with everyone wanting to trade Wang? Unless it’s for a huge bat, you dont trade a good young pitcher making the league minimum because he underperformed in two playoff games. Its the fault of people expecting him to be a staff ace when in reality he’s about a mid 2.
Before it gets too trolly and/or negative in here, I think this was the most fun season to be a Yankee fan since around 2001, with all the young kids, and the removal of the surly, bad clubhouse types. It was a team that was more fun to root for than they’ve been in years, and of course it’s sad to see it end, but I’d give them a hell of a standing O if I were at the Stadium tonight.
Damn frustrating to have (another) early end to the season, for the Jeter/Posada/Mo core to be another year older and still stuck on 4, but, little solace as it is right now, next year should be at least as much fun. Go Yankees! And they always will…
Thanks to Pete for a great year. The insight this blog provided had a lot to do with being able to enjoy the season, and this team, so much. Tell the Journal News you deserve a raise!
Jeter won’t move to center. It’s an interesting idea. But it ain’t gonna happen.
As a Yankee fan we do appreciate the condolescense’s but only from non-Sux fan,
At least they went out fighting this year, they had their chances and did not come through. Now the long wait for next year starts.
Personaly I hope Alex is back next year. We are not in the playoffs without him. Great young arms more in the farm, next year should be fun.
A lot of the blame for this series goes to Wang and Jeter.
Once again, they hype came before the pitches. First Westbrook, now Byrd. It’s almost comical. No, it’s really freaking comical.
Let the trade rumors begin.
How about I start?’
We’ll give you Melky, Kennedy, Joba, and Hughes for five more lazy, unproductive when it matters all-stars for every one of those positions.
ha.
This team, front office, players, and fans should all jump off a bridge together and save the rest of baseball the oxygen.
ha.
See you next year losers.
Peter, thanks for the great blog. I checked it multiple times a day and it really changed the face of a yankee game for many of us. Sad way to end it
Pete – thanks for the blog it was a great way to follow the season.
This was the toughest of the last 7 years, in my mind – 2004 was rough, sure, but this year, after the season we had to come back and nearly catch the red sox, t was simply tremendous. To come up short just feels wrong – just wrong.
It’s important to remember that the Yankees have had a great opportunity the past 12 seasons – the window has been small for Mo, Jeter and Posada, etc, and the reality is that in the last 7 seasons, we’ve wasted that opportunity. It’s time to cut this team open and find out what ails it in these short series.
Looking forward to the Hot Stove.
Actually, Scooter, I’m betting you won’t (see us next year). As there will hopefully be site registration to keep the trolls at bay.
Hawk, all of the blame goes to those two. Jeter was given two hits that should have been errors, and Wang was just awful. Twice.
They were both absolutely pathetic.
i’m sick of baseball
I meant to say Brent.
Joe was classy to the end, down to the final press conference.
tough season but i will take this time to congratulate SJ44 who got his wish.
I’m not going to miss the spoiled, childish Yankee “fans” on this blog, who believe that a WS championship is an entitlement. Shame on all of you, and you know who you are.
Wow what a sad today. I remember when i was eight and i first started to get into baseball and nothing compared to watching the yanks from 98-00. Its so sad, but I know Torre has to go, he cant manage correctly. Wang should have never started game 4. Its hard to let go of MY yankees, Brocious, O Neill, Bernie, and now Torre. Lets keep it in staff and go with Mattingly or Giradi. I always hate these next few days. Great job with the blog pete, this season has made me feel closer to the team then ever before.
i’m not a blamer.
but if i was, i would blame wang and wang. ace of our staff? sure.
get joba in the rotation yesterday and tell wang and all of his 40mm fan letters to learn how to pitch in a big spot
Big Fan
October 8th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Yanks need to look into getting rid of Jeter, he is by far the worst team player ever. You can just see the jealousy he has for A-rod.
what a bum he is, his last clutch hit was in 2001, he hasnt done anything since then.
Wang should be ashamed of his effort in this postseason and the series falls completely on his shoulders.
Big Fan, surely you jest. Jeter had a good game tonight in a must win situation. All of this Jeter hatred lately is so annoying. Jeter is the prototypical Yankee. Dimaggio/Mantle/Ruth etc. would have never been subjected to such irrational thought.
For the love of god I cant wait til the day this blog has registration. Nice classy people who come here just to rub it in on a night like tonight.
Most of the people that are here are knowledgable, insightful fans we may not always agree with what people say about the team but it always makes for great debate.
Watching Torre he seems very much relegated to his fate at this point and that is a shame. I know that there will be major changes with this team over the off season and when you look in the dugout after the game and see all the faces of some who will be here next year and others who will not your heart or at least my heart goes out for them (and for me for that matter).
I want to thank all the people who post here during the year and have made my Yankee experience this year all the better. This blog as far as I know doesnt shut down during the off season (I would think especially with this one).
Can the Yankees start talking to Alex and Boras now??
Hmmm…an interesting transition is underway.
It’s only been a 1/2 hour since they ended our season, but I’m already becoming a big Indians fan.
LaRussa anyone? He’s got balls unlike the wimps, Bloe and Gator. Now as for Hitman and Long I think they should get another shot, especially what Long did with Choke-Rod.
Hey Zack,
F*** You Steinbrenner? Are you nuts? Which owner would you rather have? The Wilpons? Joe Torre did not give you 13 straight post seasons George did. It was his money and desire to win that kept him investing in this team year after year. When Steinbrenner passes the torch you will all be looking back on the good old days when the Yankees used to build champions. Joe was clueless Joe B4 he met George’s wallet. Joe = the Yankees? Where was he for the other 22 WS championships? You are a complete moron…. Joe is a class act and a gentleman. He is not the reason this team has won, no more than he is the reason for their loosing. The Yankees will be fine with or with out him.
It is not an end but a beginning.
Spring will be here soon enough, and with global warming, hell, well, you might as well just skip winter!
Love you all it was a crazy, reckless season
Torre is a class act, as always. I’ll miss him. And it’s hard to let go, it really is. But I think it’s time to turn the page.
Pete,
Never once posted here, but read everything every day. Great work with the site, you did a killer job. Enjoy your winter, even if it starts earlier than hoped. Thanks.
Banwagonning is always appropriate for the teams that face the Red Fux!!!
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, Suzyn Waldman is crying on the air.
Get a freaking grip!!! How unprofessional.
Torre didn’t die. He just isn’t coming back as Yankee manager.
Good God, what an embarrassment she is on the air.
How do you explain 4-13 in last 17 playoff games? The last few years they have turned into a completely different team at playoff time.
Got to give lots of credit to the young guys.
When you come out of your post-depression fogs, don’t forget to follow the Baby Bombers on the Honolulu Sharks in the Hawaii Winter Baseball League. http://www.hawaiiwinterbaseball.com/
Austin Jackson was part of the huge 11 run 8th inning last night. Future looks bright, indeed.
Joe Torre is one class act.
pete- thanks for the great blog. This was my first season experiencing it, and unfortunately I didnt even discover it until 3/4 of the way through. I look forward to next year/off season comments.
ps I say joe should quit before that idiot fires him too. the one thing I dislike about this organization is the thought that no ring means the season was a failure. This season was amazing in my opinion, such a great comeback, and i think joe deserves praise for that. Steinbrenner is a fool…
After emotions die down I think we have to give the team credit for making it this far, given the obstacles they had to overcome. In large part that is due to Torre keeping the team focused after the All-Star break. Easy to overlook that now. Given that, I think it is time for the Torre era to come to a dignified end. It’s easy to make him the scapegoat for post-season failure, but in my opinion there is plenty of blame to go around. In my opinion, the starting pitching was never strong enough to sustain a prolonged post-season drive. That being said, there are several positives to the season. Let’s build on that foundation for next year. Thanks to Pete for his outstanding work, I’ll stay a faithful reader / poster on this blog.
Jeter is not the prototypical Yankee, he cares more about what supermodel he is dating rather than winning.
If he was a real team player he would have relinquished the shortstop position to Rodriguez right away since I think its clear to everyone not named “Jeter” that he is half the player a-rod is.
Jeter grounds into a double play to end the rally, then tries to hit a 8 run home run in the 9th, way to go Derek yet another year you choked but wont get blamed for our loss.
2004, 2006, 2007 = terrible post seasons by Jeter, his head is not in the game anymore
Spare your ears and don’t listen to these idiots that’s why Blogs like this are where the real fans are, not those two-faces – YES, FOX, ESPN, etc.
Man, Susan Waldman is crying on the radio. I wouldn’t want to be in that clubhouse right now.
Yeah, see, SJ? Some people love their team. They don’t see it as an opportunity to prove how smart they are. They just love it. And sometimes that even extends to the folks who spend the most time with that team, and the man who ran it well for a very long time.
I’m not a huge fan. But genuine emotion born of faith? Not embarrassing at all. There will be a lotta tears shed tonight, and many of them by the folks who know Torre best.
Sorry, but I lived through the days of revolving-door-managers (Yogi, Lou, Clyde King, Stump Merrill, Dallas Green, etc, etc, etc). You always think the next one will be better than the last, but they hardly ever are.
I think Girardi *might* be a good manager, but I just have the feeling that Mattingly will be bad. Why do I want Joe back? Because there is no one out there that I think can do a better job. Even the Red Sox can’t stand their manager (Terry FranComa) and they’re still alive.
It’s a lean free agent market this offseason. Regardless, I don’t see the Yanks making any major changes to the team, except for the coaching staff, obviously. Maybe Joba and Phil will be able to throw some shutouts next year in the playoffs and carry this hopeless postseason offense the Yanks have beyond the Division Series (at least). Honestly, that’s they only way I see things changing in the postseason for the Yanks, because this offense simply can’t perform in October. It’s no longer just a freak happenstance…It’s a proven fact.
SJ44 just because a senile old man said Torre isn’t coming back doesn’t make it gospel. Last year everyone thought Torre wasn’t coming back and look what happened. The truth is the Yankees haven’t had enough pitching to win in the playoffs since 2001. Their bullpen has been suspect and their starters have been nothing more than 6 inning pitchers. Next year with the emergence of Phil/Joba/Ian the Yankees will be in a much better position to advance. You can’t win when your so-called ace gives up 4 runs in 2 innings. It just ain’t gonna happen. You also can’t win when you leave so many men on base. A-Rod’s strikeout in the first. Posada’s pop out to left in the second, that’s just not a recipe to winning October games.
To be honest, there were times that I didn’t think the Yankees would make it to the playoffs, but they did. I really thought this would be the year, especially with Clemens back and A-Rod having a MVP season (don’t forget the addition of Joba and Hughes). With Torre fired and A-Rod’s ability to void his contract, I don’t know when will we ever have such a complete team again.
Are you people dense? WANG IS NOT AN ACE! He’s a #2 at best. Man, some of the people on here make it embarrassing to be a Yankee fan.
O Ya, have you even looked at Jeter’s postseason numbers since game 3 2004? Did you know that Jeter was batting nearly .500 since then? Please get your facts straight and then comment okay? Jeter is the same player he’s always been. Please look at Jeter’s number this year on Baseball Reference’s website and his career numbers. They are very much in line with what he’s always done.
Time for the postgame obligatory Kim Jones ” Alex, can you talk about your plans for next year.”
tribe in four hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Just offered a buddy of mine, world’s biggest Phillie fan, Wang, Melky, Farnsworth, and Ian Kennedy for Ryan Howard.
Hey, I can dream, can’t I?
I, for one, am disappointed that the Yankees lost tonight, but not because I felt they needed to win the WS to have a successful season.
I’m disappointed that what became a wonderful summer of baseball is over. The Yankees gave us hundreds of thrills and a summer to be proud of as a Yankee fan.
Thank you, Yankee players and coaches. It was vastly entertaining.
Ok … after this i must say i am quite beyond upset as we all are … PITCHING IS TRULY EVERYTHING in the postseason, Pettite and our pen were the only ones that stepped up in that category, that will be it for;
1) Roger Clemens – great career but big $28 million dollar dissapointment, although he is a great mentor, once he stepeed into the clubhouse things did change, bring him back as a coach
2) Mariano – as sad as it is to say he just is not SANDMAN anymore, and we gotta get younger
3) Joe Torre – Great Guy, HISTORIC YANKEE, but we need new life and new ways to lead a young team of players that can step up like CANO, MELKY etc.
WHO WILL BE BACK;
1) A-Rod – No one else is going to give him 30 mill a year but the Yanks, he did have a great year and he played average in the series BUT GOT US THERE in the first place …
2) Jorge – A huge year for him, and another reason postseason possibilties arose for us
3) Bobby Abreu – As messed up as it sounds he got on when he needed to and he wants to stay in NEW YORK, he did give us a shot in the 9th, a spark that we didnt use
4) Andy Pettite – Still has some fight left in him and never should have left in the first place …
HUGE DISSAPOINTMENTS;
1) Derek Jeter – Mr. Clutch just was not there this whole series yea he got what 2 rbis but he grounded into 3 double plays in potentially huge innings … NOT THE DJ WE OR HIS PARENTS KNOW …
2) Clemens – He tried i will give him that but at some point u have to stop wasting money like he does, GREAT GUY, HALL OF FAME PITCHER and ALL, but at some point you have to hang em up … remember YAnkees fans as much as he did do for us, he did bolt to HOUSTON after HANGING EM UP IN PINSTRIPES …
Listen guys, I’m not even a Yankees fan, but the Yankees are insane if they fire Joe Torre. His relevant stats:
12 seasons in NY
Record: 1,173-767
PS Record: 76-47
10 Division Titles
4 World Series Titles
4 100-win seasons
Yeah, by all means, run this guy out of town. To give you an outsider’s viewpoint, Steinbreinner is a classless jerk who doesn’t deserve a guy with the character and skill of Joe Torre.
Sorry about the loss tonight; my team lost in the postseason this year too, so I feel your pain. Except that my club isn’t perennially in the playoffs, so at least you guys have that going for you.
Great blog… been reading all year but my first post.
Its time for Torre to move along. The hunger and agressiveness just isn’t there. Mattingly (as much I love the guy) needs to go to. The Yanks did not show the plate discipline or clutch hitting needed to win. They really need a solid hitting COACH.
Everyone knew the pitching staff would be tenuous this year. You had 3 old guys in the starting rotation (not to mention broke-dick Pavano lying around), no set-up guys till Joba got here and frankly, a slowing down Mariano. There is not one lights-out starter on that staff and Mo needs to learn to throw an offspeed pitch or his career will be over next year.
Other than that..
1. Giambi… Sell him if you can.
2. A-Rod… Sign him for good.
3. Posada… Sign him3 years or less.
4. Farnsworth… Keep him… no one wants him anyway and if he can keep throwing that slider like tonight he might be useful after all.
5. Matsui… Sell him to Seattle.
6. Pettite… Keep him if you can.
7. Abreau… Sell him
Just my two cents. Oh, and I hope Boston does win because it will make me hate them even more and that is a good thing
kill yourself yankee fans
Rob S surely you jest. Please look at Mariano’s numbers for this year and his career numbers, you will see that his numbers are basically the same. The Sandman is still the Sandman, Mariano is not the issue. The starters are the issue with this team.
SJ44, are u kidding me? She was crying on the air? no, I don’t believe it…damn, I wish I was listening to the radio post game. Maybe they’ll have it online. I doubt it.
what else did she say? btw, that was hilarious…”George didn’t die…he just won’t be the Yankees manager”.
Cheers to Joe Torre! What a great 12 year ride… so many division titles… numerous world series rings… the guy deserves praise now that it is done.
Congrats to the Yankees players for a helluva second half and a strong season.
Not many people thought they could do it.
Until Next Year, Yanks and their fans!
Thanks Pete for the great blog.
cheers
Told you so, bitches.
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
WTL I’ve been saying this alot, but surely you jest about selling Matsui to Seattle. Please check his numbers from this year and his career numbers and you will see that he’s doing the same thing he’s been doing. The Yankees lost because their starting pitching just wasn’t that good this year. Next year they should be better with a healthy Hughes/Joba/Ian/Pettite/Wang.
I don’t post here often, but I visit this site all the time, and I wanted to take a moment to thank:
(a) Pete, for all of his hard work here and elsewhere;
(b) All of the intelligent and good Yankees fans who keep the discussion lively here.
it’s a shame torre won’t be coming back but he’s got to take some of the blame here, too. as has been stated by a few folks here, they’re trending the wrong direction. joe had to go at some point, so i suppose now is as good a time as any. good luck, mr. mattingly.
wang really let his team down, not once, but twice. i’m sure the kid is pretty down on himself and, you know what? he should be. those were two kevin-brown-randy-johnson type of performances in games where his team needed him to be the “ace” everyone claims he is. he’ll be a GREAT number three behind joba and phil in a couple of years. andy pettitte was the ace of this team all season, and he proved that in game two. it’s a shame they couldn’t get him back on the mound. wang was an absolute disaster.
a-rod was awful, but so were posada, jeter, and most of the lineup. if they don’t bring a-rod back, fine, but “joe’s guys” need to shoulder the blame, too.
i won’t watch a red sox-diamondbacks world series. i won’t do it.
welcome to the mattingly era, everyone. after next year, mussina, giambi and probably pettitte come off the books, too. we’re going to see a very different yankees team by 2009. i, for one, can’t wait.
Keep Torre. Trade Wang –and get a REAL #1 starter. Big Stein: Don’t overreact and really screw things up. And Pete, thanks for the great work all year. It was a lot fun until the end…
2009 can’t come soon enough – our current Stadium has run out of magic.
Tonight is now the 3rd time in the last 5 years a team has clinched a playoff series in our House – 2003 WS, 2004 ALCS, 2007 ALDS.
And damnit, Trot F’in Nixon gets to do it twice.
O.k. guys. I’m ready to take the ball in game 5. I know I can do it this time!
He’s not coming back. Geez, his PC was all about saying goodbye.
He is no longer under contract with the Yankees. As of right now, he is no longer employed by the Yankees. Contracts expire after the season. He’s not getting fired and he can’t quit a job he no longer has. He just won’t be offered a new deal.
That’s why Waldman was bawling on the air in the most unprofessional display of broadcasting I have ever seen.
He had a great run but its over. He knows it and everybody around the team knows it.
They are 4-13 in their last 17 post-season games. Its not all because of bad luck.
You take George’s money and the glory when you win, you take his crap when you lose. That’s the way it is with the Yankees.
Contrary to popular belief, the franchise will survive and thrive. The future looks GREAT here. They just need to patch some holes.
Harley, do yourself a favor and learn something about broadcasting before you spout off and look like a fool. She can’t CRY on the damn air because a multi-multi millionaire may not be back managing the Yankees.
She’s a professional broadcaster, not some 10 year old fan.
Its not a question of being “right”. Its a question of professionalism.
One day, when you have a job, you will learn about that.
Based on performance, if the Yanks bring back A-Rod next year they have to realize they’re getting a great regular season offensive force who, at the same time, can’t be counted on to carry over that performance in the postseason. By contrast, Scott Brosius was mediocre offensively during the regular season but managed to come up with some huge postseason hits, regardless. And I think Brosius was actually more consistent (if not spectacular) defensively. Which third baseman would you rather have? I think it’s a question that deserves some thought…
I think if the Yanks want to go back to a true “team” concept, they might want to go back to a guy like Brosius at third (with the proper mix of guys around him). Just my opinion, of course, but, again, I think resigning A-Rod deserves a bit more thought before the Yanks actually pull the trigger.
As sad as I am right now, it’ll wear off soon. What a great summer, and to be honest, probably the best one we’ve had in a while. Tons of great moments, especially the rally against the Red Sox TWICE and beating them in the season series. Unfortunatley, we spotted them just a bitt too much early on.
Got alot to look forward to the great things to come next Spring.
Pete, thanks so much for the continuous postings, we all know how much of a pain it must’ve been at times. Please keep it up this winter from time to time and I look forward to getting back at it again in April.
Good night all. GO YANKEES!
It’s extremely difficult at a time like this after another bad loss, but things DO look better for next year.
1) Sign up Mariano, Jorge & ARod; 2) get a quality middle reliever; 3) Joba, Ian, Phil, Wang & Andy in the rotation; 4) HEALTH
Even Joe Torre could actually win with that formula.
I HAVE AND FOREVER WILL BE A DIEHARD YANKEES FAN AND A DISSAPOINTED ONE AT THAT … BUT I WANT TO SEE THE INDIANS SUPRISE THOSE DEMONS AT FENWAY … I WANT TO SEE THE RED SOX NATION BURN, I AM TIRED OF ALL THEY HAVE RAN THEIR MOUTHS ABOUT SINCE 04, YEA THEY HAVE WON IT ALL LESS TIME AGO THAN THE YANKEES BUT HONESTLY IT WAS ONCE IN 86 YEARS AND IF THEY WIN THE SERIES AGAINTS CLEVELAND I HOPE ARIZONA OR COLORADO DOES SOMETHING TO THEM … OH AND I ALSO HOPE BIG PAPI AND MANNY GO DOWN HARD AGAINST SABATHIA AND CARMONA, THEY ARE TWO PEOPLE I DONT THINK THAT YANKEE FANS WILL MISS IF THEY FALL OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH SUDDENLY, TALKING BOUT HOW AROD AND THE YANKS SHOULD BE MORE LIKE THEM, PLEASE I AM CONTENT WITH THE WAY THE YANKS ARE AND HOW PROFESSIONAL THEY ARE .. IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THEY BOTH SERIOUSLY DROP OFF IN PRODUCITON … O AND LOWELL … WOW IS ALL I GOTTA SAY … SCREW THEM ALL …
LETS GO SABATHIA, CARMONA, HAFNER, SIZEMORE AND BOROWSKI FOR THAT MATTER … TIME FOR LIGHTS OUT ON THE SAWX !!!
Welcome to Minnesota! chien-ming wang.
Jay,
I swear to God, she was BAWLING on the air. It was so bad, Sterling had to step in and take over so she could compose herself.
I have never heard anything like it! Somebody will have to have a copy of it online in the next day or two. If not, I am sure the media critics will be all over her.
I am still shaking my head in disbelief over what she did on the air.
It didn’t end the way that we wanted it to, but after the bad start it was great just to be in the playoffs. It’s been great to be on here and chat with other Yankees fans. This has been a year with a lot of ups and downs and I have enjoyed being with all of you on the ride!!
BRING BACK TORRE
P.S. – I’m hoping Girardi takes over rather than Mattingly.
I also don’t post but read several times daily.
I’m very glad cooler heads than ours make the decisions for the Yankees.
It was a magic season and I was thankful to see them play in October.
Next year lets see who also returns in October.
It is a blessing to play postseason ball
Maybe the players will be different but hopefully the Yankees will be there
Long time reader, first time poster; I just wanted to thank Pete for the blog, and to let my fellow Yankee fans know that despite another tough 1st round exit, there are far more important things in the world to be concerned about (although it might take a couple of days to realize that
Personally, I need a moment to step back, take a deep breath, and tell myself that in the long run, stuff like this is really just a bonus; having a roof over my head, good food to eat, a wife who I adore…well, you can figure out where I’m going with this. It sucks that the Yanks lost, but man, I’ll be damned if I let that taint any other aspect of my life.
That being said, we need to rebuild around pitching, and getting Joba/Hughes into the rotation is good first step.
Peace,
R. Mann
Chicago Dave: Considering that the Yankees would not have even sniffed the postseason without Arod’s year, I can’t understand why they would hesitate to have him back.
Hey, here’s an idea! Ride his MVP shoulders to the postseason and then bench him for the playoffs.
I think the Yankees will win game 5…
One last thought…I’d rather see the Sox make it to the WS and play the D-Backs…only to lose the thing in the bottom of the ninth inning of Game 7 with Papelpug on the mound.(wink, wink…).
SJ44- Thanks for the info on Suzy. That will definitely be a hot topic on YouTube here in the next day or so. You’re right about Torre not having to quit. Sorry to go back a long way, but it’s like the situation that the Dallas Cowboys went through when Jimmy Johnson replaced Tom Landry. Landry was at the end of his stay, there was no need for him to quit or be fired, the Cowboys put Jimmy in charge, and everybody moved on. It will be the same way with the Yankees and Torre. Somebody else gets the keys to the car now.
It’s amazing how much pleasure some people are taking in the yankee’s loss.
It’s as if watching Torre fail and lose his job was worth it to people.
It’s a sad aspect of human nature I suppose. How much pleasure some people can take in the misfortune of others.
It’s even worse when that feeling of pleasure is cloaked as “hard ball” reasoning about what the team needs to do to get better. As if pseudo-intellectualization of what happens can really cover up small minded resentment.
Yea thanks alot for all the work you do on this site, it is great and really keeps us close to what is happening. To all of you that hate Torre, then you are a moron. It is the end of one era and the beginning of a new one. Disappointed yes, in despair, not at all go Yanks. BTW to all you Red Sox fans, if the Indians don’t beat you, the Rockies will f***ing flatten you like a pancake, so don’t think you can just strole to Colorado and beat them, or Cleveland, CC and Carmona > Beckett and Dice-K.
Hopefully those keys go to Joe Girardi…
Wang is mismatched as an ace on this staff. In fact, you could argue that pressure has hurt him more than helped him.
Once he is properly slotted as the #2 or #3 starter his stuff shows he is, the results will be better.
You don’t trade 27 year old pitchers who don’t make a lot of money and who have had his success. You work on his weaknesses to make him better. His upside is to great to trade him.
The solution to their problems is not to spend more money but, to spend money WISELY on players.
They have done the all star at every position stuff for the last 5 years. It has worked to get them to the playoffs. Its failed miserably in the playoffs because too many of these guys simply can’t peform under this kind of pressure.
They have a good, young core of guys. They can’t bring everybody back and they won’t, IMO.
I think if some guys get greedy or have too high an opinion of themselves, I think they will be in for a rude awakening.
One of the benefits of losing is it allows you some freedom. If you lose with a guy, you can lose without him.
Brian Cashman is not dummy. You will see a better team next year, IMO. They may not have as many all stars, or as many big names. However, they will be better equipped for post-season success.
One day when I have a job? Watch it, punk. You spend far too much time spewing arrant nonsense born of the desire to be proved right. You’re not a fan, you’re a wanna-be playa hater with just enough knoweldge to make you, well, not dangerous, but awfully boring.
I oughtta take my Golden Globe and beat you like a rented mule with it.
One other quick comment: again coming into this as a non-Yankees fan (though I don’t particularly hate them either), it seems to me that the Yankees greatest asset is also often their greatest weakness: their money. It’s fairly indisputable that the Yankees ability to outbid virtually everyone in the league for free agent talent is a huge asset; as well as the fact that mistakes like Pavano simply don’t hurt the Yankees like it would other teams — they’ve got money to burn. However, I think this abundance of cash also causes a sort of laziness, in that the organization doesn’t feel like they need to develop home-grown talent. This has particularly bitten them in the ass in their rotation; most of the very good starters in the league now are home-grown, rather than being purchased in the free-agent market.
The best thing that I think that Yankees could do going forward is to focus on developing pitching at the minor-league level and start resisting the temptation to buy the shiniest biggest toy on the free agent market each year. Unfortunately, I think that Steinbreinner’s win-the-WS-every-year-or-you’re-a-failure mentality makes this exceedingly difficult, so I’m not sure that I see your woes ending any time soon.
Anyhow, congrats on a great comeback this season. Were I a betting man, and thank God I’m not, I would’ve bet on the Yanks not getting there given where they were midway through the season. And I’ll give you guys this – even after tough losses, your organization always shows a lot of class, except for the boss.
Torre had a great run in New York and he made a lot of money in the process. Besides, he wasn’t going to manage the Yankees for the rest of his life…it had to end sometime. Now he can go back to broadcasting or go manage another team (if he still has the passion to do so after all these years in the New York pressure cooker). Hopefully, it will be a good change for all concerned, and we will all be left with the good memories of the Torre era, regardless!
Will someone in the CLE team have the balls to throw at Big Papi’s head or Manny’s?
SJ44, I’ll look for Suzy’s “balling” on the air- I can’t believe she broke down like that.
Have a great off-season!!
wang sucks, 3 huge games this year and he lost and was EMBARASSED in all of them.
Hughes should have started game 1 and game 4 since its clear wang doesnt have the guts to win a big game.
Calling it: Rockies win World Series.
I’ll always remember a GREAT run w/ torre. It’s been an incredible 2 years and it went by too fast. But, i think it’s time. They’ve got a real solid young corps that has come up over the last few years and there’s more coming. This team has a bright future and they will continue to be a post season caliber ball club every year. A new manager isn’t going to change that. If players leave because torre is gone so be it, this team needs a change. If they can’t resign some of their guys like mo, pettitte, posada, etc. they’ll have to fill holes other ways. I’ll definitely miss this team..but it’s time for change.
we need an ace for next year…an established ace, not a great 2nd year pitcher (Hughes, Jaba)..too much pressure to put on a young guy, see Wang….we need a back end of the bullpen 7 and 8th inning guys…..how about Aaron Rowand in RF, let Abreu go…if Arod opts out and we lose the 21 million from texas let him and Boras go elsewhere…. lets save the money and continue to get younger…I agree with all of your posts SJ44….next few weeks should be interesting with the Yanks and their moves….Go Indians!!!!!
Oh, and Igawa’s going to become an outstanding long reliever – at least he damn well better be.
*12 years, not 2
I missed her call..what did Suzyn”goodness garcious” say?
There’s no joy in Mudville
They should interview the “ace”. Since he was pathetic and killed the Yanks in this series. The only people to show up was Mo, Joba(except when he was scared of the bugs), Pettitte, Hughes, Cano and Damon.
Is anyone going to continue to watching the playoffs now? I know I will for sure, but I’m curious what the rest of you will do now our Yanks are out of it…
*12 years
Yes it makes much sense to trade Wang, a 27 year old pitcher coming off of back to back 19 win seasons with ERA’s of 3.63 and 3.7 in the AL East. Makes perfect sense, what was I thinking?
Chicago,
Not me. Maybe the only good news out of this, at least for me, selfishly, is that I’ll be able to beat my strike deadline. (I’ll be walking a picket line come November 1st.)
Pete,
Great blog this year. Really enjoyed it.
I feel like dancing with my People’s Choice Award!
I’ll watch the NLCS I won’t watch the ALCS because all the fawning over the Red Sox is boring to me.
THUH UH UH UH YANKEES LOSE!!!!!
THUH UH UH UH YANKEES LOSE!!!!!
Harley – Oh, that stinks! Hopefully things will turn out well for you (and your fellow workers) in the end!! Best of luck!
Everyone needs to remember how honored we are to be Yankee fans. Just to make it to the postseason in this era, let alone 13 straight years and with the success we’ve had, is a major accomplishment. Look at the Pirates – haven’t sniffed the playoffs in a decade and a half. Cubs haven’t won it all in 100 years! I get the whole argument that $200 Million should be enough to win a championship, but the truth is you can’t buy the Ring – it takes a lot more than that. Obviously we’re in for a lot of change and maybe it’s for the best, but those of you who take all of this for granted, or bitch and moan about another year losing in the ALDS should be ashamed of yourselves. I’m not happy about it either, but at the end of the day I’m proud to be a Yankee fan, I’m proud of this team for the adversity they overcame this season, and I feel privileged to have even tasted October baseball for yet another year.
Thanks, Dave –
(When you strike for better DVD residuals, well, we’re not exactly steel workers. But it’s gonna be a long haul, I fear.)
pettitte was awesome this year
i would also like to add … i knew we should have kept tino instead of giambi (irrelavent) but he was at the game … lol , if only broscious, and leyritz were there too … DAMN !!!
but it really was dissapointing and as a diehard fan, we did get there and we do have one more postseason win than the METS … lol … after one helluva a second half we did have but just didnt have the postseason we wanted … anyone think we should have handed out rally towels and let the bugs loose in the 7th like me ??? lol
Thanks Pete! The last part of this season has been the most fun I’ve had watching baseball in awhile. I’m NOT of the same mind that the season is a total failure if you don’t win it all. I think that that thinking is what has been the problem for the Yankees these last few years. Every other team plays loose because they’re just happy to be there. What a weight to carry.
We made it two 13 straight post seasons. We went to the WS 6 times in those years and we won it 4! No other team even fits into that conversation. I think our team plays better if we stop saying nothing matters but that. Jeter has to stop saying that. The young guys stopped having fun and started feeling the pressure, too.
I’m going to take a few months and enjoy Red Wings hockey (I’m from Wisconsin!) and then be waiting for pitchers and catchers to hurry up and get there.
If Joe doesn’t return, I hope they have the decency to honor him well. I hope Joe Girardi is the next manager and that Derek Jeter will find a wife, get a life and loosen up a bit.
Have a great off season everyone.
Paul O’Neil said it best..That they didnt appear to have that intensity and they just expected things to happen…That falls onto the managers shoulders. Joe T is well respected but it never appears the he’s going to fire up a team. Lets see what he does with a $50 million payroll team..
Well guys, it’s been real. Whoever posted that the indians deserved it this time, I couldn’t disagree more – they got lucky on some 3rd world country gnat BS in game 2, and lucky on everything else (bloops, grounders that found holes, 3 BS calls in their favor) in this game. I hope someone pours gasoline on OSU and the whole pitiful state burns down to the ground, w/a protective bubble only around LeBron, and of course Paulie and his family. Rooting for Rockies in the WS. I hope the Indians make it to the WS only to lose in game 7 ala 97, and Carmona becomes the next Jaret Wright.
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again. This team needs more Shelley Duncans and less Jason Giambis. And Joe PHing Giambi for Duncan tonight was so emblematic of why he’s no longer the right manager for this team. Fortunately Cashman is well aware of our needs and is doing good things to move the team in the right direction. We got to see the beginnings of the fruits of his labor this season (which is why this was NOT a lost season no matter what some of you say!) and I can’t wait to see more. Here’s hoping theyre not even considering firing Cash, what a disaster that would be.
Also, was Waldman really crying on the air? God, how embarrassing. There’s another one I’d like to see replaced in the offseason.
Again it’s been real all. Thanks Pete for providing this great blog for us. To everyone I’ve chatted with on here, keep on truckin. I’ll still come here when something happens in the offseason and I hope you all do the same.
Peace be with you all. Extend Mo, Andy, A-Rod, Jorge & Molina, and, Girardi 2008!
I wonder how this series would have turned out with Andy in gane one. :-/
Thanks for maintaining this blog all season, Pete.
Harley -
What kind of writing do you do? TV, movies? Comedy/drama? (I’m an aspiring writer and am just curious, feel free to ignore or respond).
SJ44 – I agree…I’m actually looking forward to D-Backs/Rockies a lot more. Watching those two teams play in the two NL Division Series matchups was such a blast! Especially the Rockies…They are a very underrated group of talented young ballplayers!!
Before I go for the night I’m just going to say that the Yankees lost because they do not have the starting pitching to match up in a short playoff series. When Ian/Phil/Joba/Pettite/Wang are the starters next year they will be in a much better position to advance far in the playoffs. Ian/Phil/Joba have proven so far in their yound careers that they can get strikeouts and be dominant when needed. That’s what wins baseball games in October. I really hope Cashman does not trade the farm for Johan.
I heard someone the other day saying that Wang is the perfect #3 and would in fact be a great #3 starter
Who knows what Alex will do and I am certainly no mind reader or expert but I get the feeling based on his post game comments he has some unfinished business here in New York and especially the comment where it takes him a long time to get used to people and places he might just stick around (which I for one would be happy to see)
Here’s a simple challenge to anybody who thinks this team is better without Alex Rodriguez. Name the replacement you have in mind. Who can take his place that will make this team better? Go ahead, name that guy. Now think of Brian Cashman, whose goal is to field the best possible team next year, pondering the same question. That is why Alex Rodriguez will be back next year. Because there is no replacement for him that will make the team better, and Cashman is smart enough to not judge him by a couple of bad weeks in October in 2005 and 2006. Cashman wants a young and athletic team. A-Rod is relatively young and he is very athletic. It’s the over-the-hill guys like Giambi that need to go, not A-Rod. A-Rod is the MVP of this team.
A couple quick thoughts on a depressing end. The Yankees had exactly one well pitched game in this series, from Pettitte. Hughes was great in relief, but didn’t start.
As bad as the offense has been, it’s hard to keep digging out of holes. This is why imo starting pitching is paramount. Mussina still has some stuff left but doesn’t have a put away pitch to finish batters. IMO, this is why Joba needs to be a starter. Relief is important but you have to have the horses to get you there. A rotation of Hughes, Kennedy, Joba is a good start to returning post-season success.
And as a sidenote, Andy Pettitte can pitch for my team any day. What a gutty effort.
Let’s cut the heart strings. The Yankees need to clean house. Torre, Abreau, Giambi, Clemens, Mussina, must go,and if A-Rod feels he needs to test the market…ciao. It is time to move Cano up in the lineup and make Matsui a DH. Sign Rowland to play rightfield and pursue Miquel Cabrera if A-Rod opts out. Money saved can be used for Santana. The Yankees need to get younger and get players who will leave their hearts on the field.
MJL,
I’ve done both over the years. First movie was Less Than Zero. First TV show was Twin Peaks. Wrote the pilot for The Bronx is Burning miniseries, had my first notes meeting with the ESPN executive, and quit on the spot. (But as you can imagine, it was a fun gig while it lasted.)
What kind of writing are you doing?
SJ: You’re making me really, really conscious of the fact that there are tears on my cheek…
Yanks have to get more players like Damon. Besides Jeter he is the only player on this team that NEVER ever feels pressure and is free and easy out there. Everyone else just chokes up on the bat even more in these play offs games and choke. I think Rowand would be a perfect fit for this team. Not a superstar but a very good player. Melky is average on defense and not a major league hitter. Rowand is a great CF and hit like crazy down the stretch in big spots for the Phillies.
Folks, be careful about next year with the “kids”. none of them have thrown 175 innings in a year. What happens when sept come around and these kids are over 175 innings and if they make the playoffs, thos eextra innings could do more damage than good. I’m not saying they shouldnt, but dont declare them the next greatest starting rotation just yet.
I can’t see why Abreu/Arod needs to go. Rowland had a career year and he isn’t what the Yankees need. The Yankees need pitching, plain and simple.
Thank you Pete for creating such a good place for the fans. And thank you Yankees you made the last days of summer very exciting for this die-hard fan.
Joe is a class act, but maybe a change could do us some good.
Huges and Joba are the real deal, Ian and Ross might be, and Viz, Veras and even Kyle showed serious worth at times. Robbie and Melky are the future. Shelly showed some guts as well.
As the great Guiseppe Franco would say “i don’t own the team, in fact, I don’t know anything about them. What I do know is it’s gonna be a long winter”
Listen guys, about game 5. I don’t know if I’m going to make it after all. My hammy is tight. But game 6, I’m there!
Captains corner, Melky is only 22 and at this point of his career he’s ahead of where Bernie was at the same point. Rowand had a career year that he’s unlikely to repeat.
Wang’s line was something like 5 innings, 12 ER.
Great point by an earlier poster – had Pettitte gone Game 1, maybe somehow we’d be awaiting Game 5 Wed. pm right now.
No way anyone saw Wang folding like this.
I still maintain that no matter how this season ended, I will always look back on the Yanks’ great second half with fond memories. They’re just not ready to win it all again yet because they’re still an offense-first team. But that is changing rapidly with the emergence of Joba, Kennedy and Hughes, who I think is ready to step up as the team’s no. 1 starter next year. He’s hitting 95 again, curve has been vicious as of late, and will only get better w/a full season under his belt. The future looks bright with Hughes leading the charge. And I agree that Wang will be even better when he’s correctly slotted in as the no. 2 (or no. 3 if Andy is the no. 2) without this pressure to be the “ace.”
I’d take Mike Lowell at 3rd if Arod bolts for $30 mill from the Cubs.
Rebecca – This is not worth crying over! As I think you mentioned earlier, there are much worse things in life that can befall people than their favorite baseball team getting knocked out of the playoffs…
Trust me, the Yanks will be back next year to take another shot at things, and the sun will come out again tomorrow…
Without being too specific, right now I’m an intern at a late-night talk show in Manhattan that may or may not air on CBS, and interned this summer at Sony Pictures Television in development. Would like to write Comedy, but I know it’s a tough gig. Really just want to work in TV…if it’s writing, cool, if not, anything else works. You certainly have an impressive resume though, can’t blame you for quitting the Bronx is Burning project. Best of luck with the strike, you guys definitely deserve what you’re asking for.
Hey Roger “Rocket” Clemens:
No sweat dude, Ill just throw another 20 mill at ya, that should cure ur ills.
I’ll even throw in a few cans of bug spray for your game 6 outing in Cleveland.
5 game series are stupid.
These comments by all the players and Torre sound like a replay from last year at this time. They can just replay last years cuase they’re all saying the exact same thing.
If A-Rod bolts to anywhere but the Sox, Lowell will be back in Boston.
Thanks, MJL. It was a lot easier when all we had to do was negotiate with movie studios and networks. Now it’s multi/national corporations who see the business as an expensive hobby. That’s a tougher road.
Oh, and as for Lowell? Someone’s going to overpay for him this winter. I’m hoping it’s not us.
Rebecca,
Its ok for you to cry. You are a fan and that’s ok. Nothing wrong with that at all.
For a broadcast professional to cry on the air? You can’t do that.
Hell, nobody died tonight. Waldman can’t do that. Its completely unprofessional and, frankly, embarrassing.
The, “who will they replace Arod with” stuff is nonsense.
First off, how many titles did they win before he got here? Do you really believe they need to give one guy that much money? It impacts what you do to fill the rest of the holes on the team.
He’s a great player. However, if he opts out, there is no way you can commit that kind of money on one guy with his post-season issues.s Just can’t do it. It would be time to move on without him.
They don’t have to know who can replace him right now.
One name that’s being discussed…..moving Robbie Cano to third base.
Either way, its up to Arod, not the Yankees, as to whether he stays or goes. If he opts out, use the savings on pitching. If he stays, then you have him for 3 more years at a reasonable number.
Second that. Five game series are ludicrous. As are all the off days. In my perfect world, all the series are nine games with one off day per series and games 2 and 3 are doubleheaders.
Pete, excellent work on the blog. It is appreciated. The team battled, but three consecutive first round exits mean changes are necessary. Torre was a class act and everyone seemed to like him, but as a manager, he made enough blunders for me to say so long.
Its a team game but Wang almost single handedly cost the Yankees this series. None the less, does not make sense to make the knee jerk reaction and trade him at a low ebb.
They need more than just pitching. This team hasn’t hit in the post-season for over 3 years. They need more grinder/line drive hitters and less sluggers. Its not working.
Rowand would be a great addition to the Yankees. You can either move Melky to left or move him to right if you pass on Abreu. I think Matsui’s days in the OF are over.
Aaron Rowand is the kind of player that would have been on the Dynasty Teams. Precisely the kind of player that’s missing on this team at the present time.
I don’t know if he will be available to the Yankees. However, you can’t have enough of those type of players on your team. They are assets on the field and in the clubhouse.
SJ, How can they NOT bring back ARod. “Postseason issues” or not, they are not in the postseason without his big year. Plus, financially it makes the most sense to the Yankees. NY has the most money AND they get Texas to kick in seven(?) million a year towards his salary. The Yanks do have some hard decisions to make over the winter, but 3rd base isn’t one of them.
The 3 kids are definitely the future but they are not going to be able to pitch a full season next year. They are going to need atleast 2 more years of throwing to be able to pitch a complete season and then hopefully some post season innings. An ace is key because everyone feeds off of him and you need to jump on there back in a play off series. Then bullpen is obviously the 2nd must you cant have Mo and then the clowns. Assuming that Joba is put into the rotation they will need atleast 3 more bullpen arms. Pitching should always be the #1 priority then the over paid hitters who cant hit in the post season.
Unfortunately, CMW wasn’t able to deliver the goods. I thought that pitching him on three days rest would turn out to be a good idea. I was definitely wrong and SJ44 was right. I’m strong enough to admit that.
Well it was a good season, just a terrible post season. Guess we’ll see what the off-season has to bring. I for one, hope the Yankees really push for the youth movement and don’t make any stupid moves. I’d love to see a rotation of Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy. Along with a bullpen of Oheldorf, Ramirez, Veras, Rivera, and whoever else can come along. Youth seems to be the way to the playoffs these days, not buying overpriced, overrated veterans. The blame can’t be placed on A-Rod, everyone sucked besides Pettite, Damon, and Cano. You have to bring A-Rod back at this point, he’s part of the solution not the problem.
I cannot wait to see certain players take a hike. (Giambi, Mussina, Farnsworth)
Oh, boy, here comes the grit and chemistry argument. Also known as David Eckstein Physics.
There aren’t any decent catchers available via FA, so they’ll resign Posada. They won with scott Broscious at 3rd, so save the $ on Arod if he’s asking for $30 mil and go after a 3B of Broscious caliber like Mike Lowell who is probably a better hitter. Pettitte- it’s his decision. Abreu will probably not be picked up. if they can get a CF they then can move “Leche” to RF. He has the arm to do it.
Thanks Mike. But I don’t need money as an incentive. I am a true yankee and I love the fans. I doubt I’ll make game 6, but game 7 is a lock. Nothing can stop me. I’ll get the ball to the next pitcher or my name isn’t roger clemens.
p.s. Make the check out to my wife.
SJ,
I agree to a point. But Damon is one of those grinders and I’d like to see him stay in Left Field. Not sure Melky has enough power for Right Field. They could really use a grinder righty at first base. There’ll be plenty of time to think of the hot stove. I do feel better about this team losing than past teams because of the stud pitchers coming up.
wHERE ARE ALL THE PLAYERS ALLEDGELY GOING IF TORRE LEAVES? FROM THE #1 MARKET TO A MEDIOCORE TEAM. DID THEY PLAY FOR JOE TORRE OR THE new york yankees!!!!
I hope Joba,Phil,Ian and all the others that helped us out
from the farm,aren’t discouraged.
Thanks to:Andy for coming back to help AND
Roger for choosing us over beantown,and for the leadership
you lent to our young pitchers
Pete…thanks for the blog. Salud, brother.
Catch you “Further on up the Road…”
No Surrender
_Time for the postgame obligatory Kim Jones “Alex, can you talk about your plans for next year”_
Yeah, Kim needs to work on her Q&A skills this offseason.
This is what she shoulda asked, “Alex, which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead ?”
Talking about the three kids in the rotation, just think of what Dave Duncan could do with them. It would be a good idea to throw some money at Dave and see if he wants to spend some quality time with Shelley instead of Chris. If Dave could work magic with Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Chris Carpenter, and Jeff Weaver to name a few, just think of what he could do with the talent of these youngsters. Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy. The possibilities are endless!
Yogi,
The problem with the Brosius argument is that, uhm, he played on a team that had the best pitching staff in the game. Starters and bullpen. And that had far more to do with the team’s success than Scotty — of whom I was a big fan — ever did.
Ideally, the Yanks need help on many fronts…As SJ44 said, they need more grinder-type guys who can collectively manufacture runs even when they’re slumping. Also, they need a major overhaul of the bullpen and one or two more decent starters to shore up the rotation. Is it possible to effect all that change in the space of one offseason? I’m not sure…
Even if it was possible to “fix” everything so quickly, will Cashman be allowed to make the tough moves that will be necessary and will he have the will and foresight to make them if he is given the authority to? Don’t know yet…But it should make for a very interesting offseason (in Yankeeland and on this blog!)! I’m looking forward to it…
How can they not bring back Arod? Simple. He opts out (the Texas money goes away) and wants 35-40 million a year the rumored Boras asking price.
If that’s the case, the Yankees won’t sign him, as they shouldn’t.
A contract extension, thereby keeping the Texas subsidy? Certainly possible. However, do you really think Scott Boras is not going to take him to the open market? I’d have to see it to believe it before I believe Boras won’t take him on the open market.
How to replace him? You re-distribute your assets and build the team a different way. As in, the way they did it in the Dynasty Years.
Committing that much money to one guy doesn’t work. Didn’t work in Texas when he went there, didn’t work in SF with Bonds, doesn’t work anywhere.
The, “no playoffs without Arod”, is not necessarily accurate. Joba and the re-tooled bullpen also had a lot to do with it.
Also, its not just about making the playoffs. Its winning in the playoffs. The Red Sox didn’t make the playoffs last year and are in the ALCS this year. Its more than just getting in, its staying in.
Paying one guy that much money practically assures you that its going to hinder you in other places. I don’t want to see that happen with the Yankees.
I think we just need pitchers who can throw complete games^^
idiots that say if Torre is fired they will lose players and fans are idiots. Do you root for the NY Torre’s or the Yankees?
Torre is a good guy and a good mngr. but he has been here 12 yrs. that is a long time.. How do you know things will not be better if you never try something new?
How many people have the same job for 12 yrs…
Mo will be here, jorge will be here. Pettitte is the only one that will be affected by Torre.
relax little kids, the Yankees will survive..
Shelley Duncan should get the 1st baseman’s job outta ST…if he can’t do it over the long haul you pick up a guy at the deadline.
Hi Kasey!
We’ve missed you.
Mike Lowell is probably a better hitter?!?
Lowell
.324 .378 .501 21HR
Arod
.314 .422 .645 54HR
Willie Mays Hayes
If Pettitte pitches the game he pitched in game 2 in game 1, this whole series may have been different. Yanks jump to a 1-0 series lead, maybe Cleveland gets tight and doesn’t win game 2. I said at the time I thought it was a mistake using Wang in game 1, but even I didn’t see him pitching this poorly twice.
Harley-
Exactly, save the Arod money for pitching. You can get two quality arms for $30 mil, assuming they are out there.
Damon showed me a lot this year, especially in the second half and the post season. He’s a definite gamer, always has been. But I think that’s precisely the reason he’s gone this off season if they eat some salary. They could get some more young guns and maybe a decent second baseman if they moved cano to third. In my opinion, of all the free agents this off-season for the yankees, Abreu is the one lock to come back.
Someone mentioned Roger’s wife earlier…Is that really his wife on those commercials they were running? If so, she’s an absolute MILF!!! Nice job, Rog!!!
Paying one player too much money? Yeah. I heard that about Manny in Boston after they didn’t make the playoffs last year. Good thing they got rid of — oh, never mind.
I’m really disappointed with the way the season ended, but in a lot of ways I think this was a transition year for us and for 80% of the year I think most of us settled with this ending. Every year I think the playoffs emphasize how important pitching is and next year we will have it in bunches.
We come back with Pettite, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba in the rotation compared Pettite, Mussina, Wang, Pavano, and Igawa. We also add Ohlendorf and Veras to the pen along with Vizcaino who has developed. I think we need to bring back Rivera. People are down on Wang, but he was good in the playoffs last year and he is one of the best young pitchers in the game and it was a great sign to see Hughes pitch well in the playoffs.
Even thought it appears to be decided already, I think it would be a big mistake to get rid of Torre. Classic case of not knowing what you have till it’s gone. Players love him, and I think the guys put too much pressure on themselves even with his presence. I really hope we hang on to Rivera, Posada, and Arod too.
I would try to get rid of (1) Farnsworth (2)Giambi and (3) Igawa for help/depth in the bullpen, as long as we can get decent value for them. Cashman is doing the right thing focusing on the pitching staff. We will come back younger and better, especially regarding our pitching, than we have been in a long time. And for the first time in a while, our future looks much better than the present. It was a really frustrating loss, but at least we have a lot to look forward to in the future.
_That’s why Waldman was bawling on the air in the most unprofessional display of broadcasting I have ever seen._
Huh? (Scooby Doo’s ears pointing straight in the air)
SJ, doncha get FoxNews on you’re cable package?
Matsui should definitely be the DH next season. His body seems like he is 32 going on 42 he wears down very quickly so that would help him stay fresh for the whole season. It would of been nice if juice mans contract ends after this season and not 1 more year. He is completely useless. They should resign Duncan, I believe he is a minor league free agent. He will be a good cheap RH bat off the bench especially agaisnt lefties. They have to get more right handed we saw what happened this season they didnt touch lefties. I dont think they should bring Abreu back. He is a good player but $16 is way too much to pay him when they can use that money for pitching.
I agree with Sj for once Arod at $30 million is impossible for any team with a brain.
mariano will be back, and Jorge, I sign Arod if he will be reasonable… let Abreu walk, get rowand if possible and reasonable and build from within…
Mariano is more important then Jorge because cathing is so hard on your body he is a bigger gamble then then Mariano is.. give them both 2 yr contracts…
the Yankees are 4-13 in the last 17 playoff games…Thanks for everything Joe T….put #6 in Monument Park between DiMag and Mantle…get Girardi in here. He is a Posada and Mariano guy (so they’ll stay)
They definitely don’t need any more “grinder type guys”. They need better starting pitching and a better bullpen. Our offense is fine. The starting pitching should take care of itself…
Pettitte, Wang, Hughes, Joba, and IPK are as good a rotation as there is in the game. Mo should remain as closer and the rest of the bullpen should be overhauled. Resign Posada and Molina. Extend A Rod. Resign Alphabet Soup. Try to trade Giambi and eat the salary.
I would love for them to go after Bonds if we can dump Giambi. Matsui, Damon, and Bonds could rotate LF/DH, with Damon playing a bit in Center. We’d only need Bonds to play 100 or so regular season games and then be ready for the playoffs.
We have already had Sheff, we now have Giambi, so I don’t buy the moral argument. Oh and pick up Bobby A Boo Boo’s option, that’s a no brainer.
Yogi,
They’re not out there. If I thought they were, it might be worth considering. But just for the record, we’re talking about the New York Yankees, the team that’s soon to move into the best and most profitable ballpark in the universe. Who own the one of the most valuable media properties in that same universe.
See, we can have A-Rod and the good arms, too. Honest.
Oh well. At least we got a glimpse of the young guys who are gonna be here for a while.
2008 will be here before you know it. This season was just never meant to be, but at least it was fun ride the last few months and not death march it looked like it was gonna be in May.
The unfortunate part of these players leaving is that you’re not getting anything in return. You’re losing some qualityand not getting anything back, even prospects.
brain surgeons Vizciano is 32 or so and a free agent…
he will not be back because he will want more $ then he is worth for a little above average reliever…
Dear God, Barry Bonds is the last player this team needs.
someone tell us if guys like mariano and Jorge leave do the Yanks get picks in return..
Bob – So the offense is “fine” and we don’t need any grinder-types, eh? Is 4-13 “fine” by you? Was tonight’s offensive performance against the mighty Paul Byrd “fine” by you? Think again…
Stuart- I think it has something to do with what date they sign on, I’m not completely sure.
Harley-
probably so, but the fact he’s making $10 mil MORE than anyone else is just mind boggling and it just sounds glutenous.
Harley is right. Plus the simple solution is that you just blow everyone else out of the water with a big offer (say $33m, since I’m not convinced anyone will really offer $30m) but do it before he opts out. After the Texas money it’s something like $26m, which really isn’t so bad. That’s not much more then we are paying Giambi. And his contract hasn’t exactly prevented us from spending any money.(See Clemens, Roger).
“Thanks to Roger for choosing us over beantown”
We in beantown would like to thank roger also.
assuming he’s going to get paid 30-32 Mil
I am kicking myself, I missed Suzyn crying on the air.
I had to turn off the broadcast, too many postgame commericals.
I have this vision of Suzyn breaking down like that radio reporter who freaked when the Hindenburg blew-up over Lakehurst.
The only third baseman out there that could replace A-Rod, without hurting the Yankees chances next year would be Miguel Cabrera, who is younger and cheaper than A-Rod, and is a pretty awesome baseball player. But he has a rep for being too chubby and lazy, which sounds far from being the most athletic player out there, when you know Alex is one of the hardest working guys in the game. And they would have to trade for Cabrera. Why trade your young guys for a premium talent when you could just use your #1 resource (money) to bring back the most valuable player in baseball, without losing any players in return? That way you don’t lose anything except George’s money. And A-Rod CAN hit in October. He was awesome in October with the Mariners. What, does that not count or something? Are Yankee fans that self-absorbed that they think his October success in Seattle means nothing? I know there are a lot of us that don’t think that way, but there are enough out there that do bash A-Rod when their anger is misguided. This year Wang is the goat. Does that mean we should trade him? Of course not. Wang is the man and will be a solid #3 starter for our rotation next year.
October baseball is the same no matter what team you play for. A-Rod can play in this month. And he was far from the worst Yankee hitter in this series in 2007. You can argue that Jeter and Posada were the two worst Yankee hitters this series. But nobody is calling for them to be dumped from the team for being unclutch. And Posada has had several poor postseasons, but nobody ever called him unclutch. I love Posada, Jeter, and A-Rod. But everyone has a bad 4 game series sometimes. It happens. Babe Ruth had some terrible world series performances, as did Dimaggio and every other great Yankee. It happens. The Yankees just get to October so often that their players have more chances to fail on the big stage, so everyone remembers a player having a bad couple of games and completely overeacts to it.
Thankfully Cashman will not fall for that. The main problem is that the pitching has been too old or mediocre in the last few years. Johnson, Brown, Wright, Clemens, Mussina, and so forth. The Yankees had the best offense in baseball this season, so that is not the problem. It’s the pitching. But now that we have Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Ohlendorf, Ramirez, and all the other young guys in the minors that we have yet to see in the big leagues, things will get a lot better, and very soon. Cashman will also have to get some younger prospects to eventually replace Jeter, Matsui, Damon, Posada, etc. But these guys are still above-average hitters and should be able to produce next year as well, so Cashman has some time to figure that out.
Yeah, the guy who led the league in OBP, who would want that? If Bonds DH’d he would be healthy and have a MONSTER season. With the short porch in right he’d hit 50 homers. He will deflect attention from A Rod and bat 3rd in front of him. A Boo Boo can bat 1st. We’d have 3 of the top 10 OBP guys in the league at the top of our order, two of them with tremendous power, with Jeter in between!
1. Abreu – RF
2. Jeter – SS
3. Bonds – DH
4. A Rod – 3B
5. Matsui – LF
6. Posada – C
7. Cano – 2B
8. Doug Alphabet Soup – 1B
9. Melkman – CF
With Damon on the bench rotating in to the LF/DH/CF spots, hell you could even keep Giambi and throw him into the 1B/DH rotation, Molina on the bench, Duncan on the bench. With Clemens coming off the books there’s the money for Bonds right there…
Dr. Acula – Do you know if they woman on the Clemens commercial is really his wife? I figure you would definitely know for sure (wink, nudge)…
Ahh, it’s not so boggling. Bruce Willis cashes a 25 million dollar check for three months work. And no one ever threw a baseball at his head.
We need to take money out of the equation and think about what’s best for the team. That’s the luxury afforded any Yankee fan. Why not take advantage?
Let’s use that money to pick up high-priced draft picks that other teams are afraid to pay. Let’s use it to have the best minor league development in the bigs. Let’s use it to scout and sign foreign players. And yes, let’s use it to pay top drawer talent when we have the opportunity.
Like Bonds
OK Bob and when Bonds get indicted then what…He’s just what a new manager wants. Plus hes a pleasure in the clubhouse and is a great teamate too…maybe they can bring in jeff kent too and let them have a cage match for entertainment.
SJ44 and everyone else calling to dismantle the entire team: It’s really not that difficult to see why the Yanks are so good in the regular season and struggle so much in the playoffs. No, it’s not because they lack “mojo” or that they lack heart. It isn’t because their offense isn’t a postseason offense; They do little things very well – they were 2nd in the league in sac bunts and top 5 in stolen bases. No it’s not because A-Rod is unclutch – he hit .286 in the series, which is all you can ask for when two of the four games were against CC and Carmona.
Very easy answer: They need better pitching, top to bottom. In the regular season you can play .600 baseball just by feeding off 3,4, and 5th starters, middle relievers, and Tampa. Guess what there’s a distinct lack of in the postseason? 3,4, and 5th starters, middle relievers, and Tampa.
In the postseason managers will stretch their good pitching out as much as possible, so you face their 1 and 2 starters 4 times in 7 games, you’ll only run into the best of their bullpen, and their closer pitches 2 innings a game on back-to-back nights.
Next season, you have Wang, Pettite, Joba, and Hughes – very good start to the rotation. Sign another pitcher who is good (IS good, not WAS good), throw in a Kennedy, and I’m not worried about their rotation at all. It’ll be much better than this year’s Wang, Pettite, 45, 38, Igawa show.
What they need to focus on is the bullpen. A solid bullpen isn’t hard to make if you set it as top priority, and it’s the cheapest part of the team. No, the dynamic duo of Vizcaino–>Mo is not what I have in mind.
A-Rod, Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Matsui – they’re expensive but they aren’t really the problem. Maybe you don’t need all of them, but I’m fine if they all stay.
Look at this series if you want to see proof of my point:
Game one: Crappy pitching by Wang – we lose before the offense has a chance.
Game two: Good pitching by Pettite – we battle all the way to the 11th.
Game three: Good pitching by Hughes – we stay in the game and eventually take it.
Game four: Crappy pitching by Wang again – we lose before the offense has a chance.
How many times to they say it on YES: Starting pitching sets the tone of the game. The Yanks lack “mojo” because their pitching is mediocre. End of story.
I don’t know where we’d put Bonds. Giambi’s got another year, Matsui is really a DH now. And if ever there was a player do for a physical breakdown? Bonds.
Don’t see Bonds in NY. He did have an MVP season. But what do you do with Giambi? He probably can’t play 1B a whole season (in fact, I’ll bet it’s Matsui next year) and you can’t trade him. Bonds is good, but injury prone and not enough of an improvement over Giambi to justify the $15m or so it would take to get him and his 300 or so ABs.
I dont want that tool Barry Bonds anywhere near the Yankees.
I love the idea of Dave Duncan as the pitching coach. Is it worth Tony LaRussa as manager though? I’m not sold on that one, although I bet you he doesn’t PH Giambi for Duncan tonight! (Sorry to keep harping on that but it REALLY pisses me off. The lack of Shelley Duncan type players is EXACTLY why this team has failed in the playoffs recently, and Giambi is the antithesis of Duncan.)
I would like Dave Eiland to have a permanent role on the coaching staff next year, someone mentioned the possibility of making him bullpen coach and that’s fine with me, but I want him around Hughes and the other youngsters every day.
I was pretty entrenched in picking up Bobby’s option, but now you guys are starting to make me have 2nd thoughts about Rowand. I do like his type of player also but I’m afraid his production would drop off dramatically from what it was last year. I know many Phillies fans and none of them were too happy with him in 06. It’s worth a look though, long as we wouldnt have to overpay drastically…
And speaking of overpaying, if A-Rod is willing to extend, I definitely extend. But if he insists on opting out so we lose Texas’ contributions and then wants 30+ mil a year, I say hell naw. As far as a replacement, the best idea I’ve heard so far is moving Cano to 3rd, because a 2b is a lot easier to find.
Ernie- It sounds like Florida is getting tired of Cabrera’s weight and work ethic problems. They may be wanting to trade him more now than ever. They could lower their usual demand of top flight prospects. If A-Rod leaves, Cabrera is definitely work a look, just because he is so talented. Being in New York might motivate him to work harder toward reaching his potential.
Well, I’m looking forward to watching a good red sox/yankees match-up in the coming weeks. No doubt it will be another exciting 7 game series as the previous 2. I think the key to the yankees winning this ser
WHAT??!!! The Yankees lost you say????
Ooops, my bad.
Ernie and Alvin — exactly right.
Hey, has anyone seen that ad yet for FrankTV?
if you pay arod 30, Jeter and giambi 20 each thats 70 mil on three players…
BONDS??????????????????????????????????????
B-O-N-D-S??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Yeah, that’ll inject life into our team. And for no additional cost, we get the circus that’s attached by rope to his ass too!
Sorry BBB, but this team didn’t lose because it doesn’t have enough “Shelly Duncan” types. No team has ever lost because they didn’t have enough mediocre 27 year old rookie firstbasemen who look like Sloth.
At least Rowand isnt shy playing balls near the wall.
yeah SJ
Harley is an accomplished screewriter, worked on “Bronx is Burning,” and is working on a pic of the Peterson/Kekich.
I still think he should cast me (Dr. Acula) as the “too handsome” Bucky Dent
Alvin is right on target with his assessment of the Yankees performance. Good job, man.
Shelley Duncan is so mediocre that he had hits in 75% of his postseason at bats.
We don’t need Bonds, we don’t need anyone else on offense. People that’s a red herring. We need good reliable starting pitching! A good, quality start tonight and the 4 runs would have been good enough. A good, quality start in Game 1 also might have been good enough. Good starting pitching takes pressure off the offense, as well. 3-4 runs in a playoff game is often good enough — (see: Yankees 1996-2000)
Do we really have to explain the concept of sample sizes?
Excellent piece by Phil Pepe on the YES Network’s site:
http://www.yesnetwork.com/news.....38;vkey=12
Alvin, agree completely. Like the idea of bringing in Duncan, as for Eiland I think he’s great, but not sure if he isn’t more valuable developing our young pitchers still in the minors. Ohlendorf and Veras will help in the pen. If we resign Rivera I think we have three decent setup men between the two of them and vizcaino, would love to see a little more depth/talent in the pen so we can avoid overuse (this has been torre’s weakness) and hopefully get better performance from all of them.
Alvin, great post.
Bonds is a HUGE improvement over Giambi. He had to hobble around in SF’s spacious LF and still managed to have an amazing offensive season. As a DH, in Yankee stadium, he will be an absolute monster. You can’t put the shift on against him because he has power the other way. You can’t intentionally walk him with A Rod behind him.
Somebody would be willing to take Giambi off our hands if we ate a good chunk of his salary. Even if we don’t dump Giambi, him, Bonds, Matsui, Damon…these guys are hurt practically as much as they are healthy at this stage in their careers. Just rotate them in and make sure they’re all ready to go next October.
I don’t buy this chemistry nonsense, this isn’t like soccer or basketball where chemistry, styles of play, and personalities meshing have a measurable impact on the game. People look at successful teams and say, “Look how happy they are, they must be successful because they’re happy” and look at a losing team and say, “They’re fighting, it must be why they are losing” when in fact the causality runs the other way. If a team is winning, personal problems and issues will be set aside and a team will appear to have great chemistry, and vice versa.
Sign Bonds, give A Rod an extension, clear the way for IPK, Joba, and The Franchise, resign Posada and Molina, resign Mo, and overhaul the rest of the bullpen. I hope you’re reading this, Ca$hmoney.
Pat, when has playing Shelley ever hurt the team? When has it ever done anything but help them? When has playing Giambi ever hurt the team, on the other hand? Laundry list of occasions.
The ’96-’01 teams had more Duncan and less Giambi.
Good point, Darrin. Back in the Glory Days, when the Yankees had grit and pluck, they also had a pitching staff that allowed them to win a lotta 3-1 playoff games. Usually against the Rangers.
Duncan get a hit and busts his butt 1st to 3rd and then gets pinch hit for with balco man…Just unreal…
The Yankee offense needs re-tooling to win in the playoffs, period. Do they lack pitching? Yes, absolutely. However, Wang, Pettitte, et al. didn’t get to bat against Paul Byrd with RISP tonight, did they? So, how is it their fault that the Yanks looked bad at the plate (yet again) in a playoff game ?
The stats don’t lie…Yanks were 1 for 9 with RISP tonight and 6 for 28 for the series. Meanwhile, only one of the three Cleveland starters they saw – Carmona – truly had a great game. Sabathia struggled with his control and Westbrook and Byrd were their typical, mediocre selves. The Yankee hitters, with the exception of a few knocks off Westbrook, made them all look better than they were.
Oh, and the Yanks certainly don’t do the little things right. If they did, they definitely would have managed to get a lot more runners home than they did… Not to mention all the close games they lost (some of which were against very bad teams) during the regular season exactly because they couldn’t do the “little things.”
Zero chance Bonds up in NY. He’s a west coast guy at heart and he knows how he can’t handle the pressure of NY. His legacy as a great is either solidified or steroids depending what side you take. No matter what happens in the next couple months, next season is going to be boring compared to ’09.
Totally agree that Bonds > Giambi and that the chemistry problem is overrated. Still the problem is that in order to dump Giambi the Yanks would have to eat about $15m (he makes A LOT) and sign Bonds for another $15m. And Bonds has at least a 25% chance of either getting hurt for most of the season or drastically declining(he has to age eventually). It’s a lot of money for someone who isn’t a lock.
Thanks Ernie and Harley.
Btw, was the squirrel there today or did he no-show?
Lastly, how’s this for an idea: Torre + Girardi co-manage and set up the perfect good-cop bad-cop routine. It’ll keep the players on their toes 24/7. Except Torre is locked in a closet after “God Bless America” so Girardi can make the bullpen decisions.
BBB – the 96-01 teams had a younger Moose, a younger Andy, a younger Clemens, a much better bullpen….really, how many times does this need to be said? The Yanks didn’t win because they had Brosius instead of A Rod, they won with dominant pitching.
In order to improve our staff for next year, all we have to do is give the kids the opportunity and let them develop, and hold onto Andy and Wang.
*sob*
The yankees are out. No more games at the toilet for this year.
Pat – See Clemens, Roger. His money is off the books and Bonds would be a MUCH better investment. His health should actually improve if he never has to play in the field and only has to DH about 100 regular season games.
MJL-
you should start a behind the scenes blog. Call it, oh I don’t know, how ’bout “True Tales Of Late Show Interns”
Say Dave, what are these ‘little things’ you speak of? Do any of them involve playing the game like Darrin Erstad?
Bob’s right. Forgot to mention what else the 96-01 team had that this team doesn’t. A little luck. Blind, dumb luck play a HUGE role in this short series. You replay this 5 game set 100 times and the Yanks win 60 of them.
Chicago Dave – strange stuff happens in small samples. The Yanks were a victim of bad luck as much as they were victimized by their horrible pitching (aside from Andy and Hughes’ performance in Game 3).
Bob, I certainly agree that pitching is the no. 1 priority and that letting the kids develop and holding onto Andy is of paramount importance. But what I meant was the ’96-’01 teams had guys that could come off the bench or even start in certain situations and provide a spark to the team. Key role players. Shelley is one of these. Giambi, on the other hand, while he still may have some HRs left in the tank, is washed up without the roids.
Sorry Bob, like Bonds a lot(wouldn’t be too upset if they do sign him). But I’ll take my chances with Giambi and spend the money elsewhere.
SJ
Aaron Rowand ain’t no Mariano Duncan – his postseason numbers are subpar .228
And yes, bad luck was a major factor in this series too. Hopefully we can face em again next year and turn some of that bad luck around on them.
Yeah, screw chemistry AND let’s sign Barry Bonds. While we’re at it, let’s sign every other old slugger we can find and stack the lineup with ‘em. We only need superstars and huge egos on this team…If only we hadn’t gotten rid of Sheffield and Randy!!! Such a shame.
You guys are begging for the Yanks to become the SF Giants. Apparently, though, if the Giants decide to keep Bonds and just pick up a pitcher or two, they’ll win the Series.
Did you guys take GM lessons from Steve Phillips or something? God, it’s ridiculous!!!
BBB- Yeah, Shelley reminds me of key role players from ’96-’01 like Shane Spencer and Luis Sojo, even Jose Vizcaino, just to throw a few names out there.
bonds will never play for the yanks and anyone who suggest he should play for the Yanks is a total friggin moron.
the guy is in his 4o’s is the biggest jerk bad clubhouse guy in baseball.
really do people think before they post….
they need better pitching it is not complicated they scored 968 runs this yr…all there offensive issues are minor.. they have 2 legit bullpen guys that is it.
Wang killed them that is the bottom line.. his ERA was in the 19.00 range this series…….
calling for more “grinders” (good that it did the ANgels this year) and Scotty Brosius (career post-season BAOBP/SLG of 245/278/418) is when the blog has jumped the shark.
Speaking of which (Rebecca this is for you), watch this movie called Open Water to put things in perspective. Not a true story, althought it has happened in real life. This couple gets left behind in the middle of the ocean on a scuba-diving trip. They basically dehydrate to death and then get eaten slowly by sharks and other sea creatures.
Makes another early exit seem fairly benign. See you all next spring. Where the team is basically the same as it is now.
Giambi, for whatever reason, was not himself these playoffs. I *believe* that it is because of the irregularity of his playing time. He is not used to coming off the bench. He should have played more down the stretch and should have played from Game 1 on, in my opinion.
Giambi still had a decent season, and over an entire season would do much better than Shelley, in my opinion. Shelley is nothing more than a role player, Giambi can be a dominant force still when healthy.
I’m not really sure what your point is, though. Our bench was actually a strength this playoffs (Duncan and Alphabet Soup did well off the bench).
Like I said before, all we need to fix is the bullpen, the rotation should take care of itself. Signing Bonds would be a huge upgrade for the reasons I’ve listed.
Bonds enjoys being the big fish in a little pond, dragging his entourage everywhere he goes, and being in his own cozy surroundings. None of that would work for him in New York. Thankfully it will probably never happen. Either he retires, goes to Texas, the Angels, or maybe Seattle. IMHO.
@Chicago Dave: To be fair, the Yanks lost the majority of one-run games because of their bullpen. You have to remember who was pitching those 8th inning 4-3 lead games in May.
.
.
.
Scott Proctor.
After Joba was added they won most of the close games.
Meanwhile, in the playoffs I can’t argue that the offense came up short. But I dunno… I think that if today’s game was 3-1 instead of 6-1 it would have been much easier to do the little things right. It becomes much harder to make smart bunts and steals when you’re down 6-1, and sac flies are disappointments rather than good at-bats.
Besides, how exactly do you go about building a team with “good postseason offense”? Maybe give Scott Brosius a personality test, and then have everyone you’re interested in take the same test. Whoever has the most similar answer to Brosius gets signed.
Here’s a pretty funny firejoemorgan piece about grit, aura and the Yankees. From last spring: http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2.....es-at.html
sigh…I haven’t watched the team all season mainly due to the frustration of the past few post-seasons, but watching this game, it almost seemed like they’re following a losing script from year to year. Garbage pitching, stranding men on base, no clutch performance. When Jeter popped out, I swear I thought to myself “this is gonna end with Posada swinging at one in the dirt” (although I thought Abreu would do zip, and A-rod would at least get on base). Needless to say, I wasn’t exactly spitting my broth all over my robe out of shock when it happened.
Bob –
So 4-13 in their last 17 playoff games is a small sample size, too, I suppose? Regardless, I’m guessing you would say that record was because of bad pitching and bad luck as well, right? Again, the lack of logic here boggles the mind…
As for this series, 1-9 and 6-28 with RISP is NOT JUST BAD LUCK!!! The lineup (and type of lineup) the Yanks have gone with in the last several years simply doesn’t win playoff games. You can’t expect pitchers to throw shutouts or limit the opposing team to just 1-2 runs every game…The offense simply has to score to win games.
Again, the Yanks need to fix way more than just their pitching at this point for things to change.
“Ahh, it’s not so boggling. Bruce Willis cashes a 25 million dollar check for three months work. _And no one ever threw a baseball at his head._ ”
yeah, but they should!
All this “spend the money elsewhere” is nice but on who? Sign Torii Hunter to a 5 year deal? How about Andruw Jones for 7 years?
We could get Bonds for 1 year, $20. I’d much rather that then burdening us with another long contract (see Damon, Johnny, Giambi, Jason, etc.)
If we could get A. Jones to agree to a 1 year deal, with maybe a couple of vesting options, for like $22 mil a pop I’d take that as well, give him a chance to prove himself. At worst we’re getting Gold Glove caliber D. Move the Melkman to left, make Matsui the DH and try to dump Giambi.
I’m good either way.
We don’t need another SP, and we have plenty of kids for the bullpen, we’d only need to sign 3-4-5 guys which won’t cost much, plenty of money left over for a position player.
If not Bonds, then who?
“Besides, how exactly do you go about building a team with “good postseason offenseâ€?? Maybe give Scott Brosius a personality test, and then have everyone you’re interested in take the same test. Whoever has the most similar answer to Brosius gets signed.”
YES, now you’re thinking!!! I like it!
The Yankees have a lethal combo of speed and power in their lineup. I’ll take that any day over the “mojo” of David Eckstien or Erstad, etc.
And luck plays a big role in a short series. Think the ’96 Yankees even make it to the World Series without the help of Jeffrey Maier?
Again, Scott Brosius career post seaon BA/OBP/SLG is 245/278/415. Basically as bad as the Yankees as a team last year against the Tigers 246/289/388 and worse than this year counting tonight’s game.
“So 4-13 in their last 17 playoff games is a small sample size, too, I suppose? Regardless, I’m guessing you would say that record was because of bad pitching and bad luck as well, right? Again, the lack of logic here boggles the mind…”
Um, that’s over a span of several years, I’m not going to go through the individual series…bad luck is a part of it, though.
“As for this series, 1-9 and 6-28 with RISP is NOT JUST BAD LUCK!!!”
Yes, it is.
Chicago Dave-
you didn’t Debbie is a MiLF?
http://tinyurl.com/yst88n
check this out
OK, common sense just left the building. I’m out…
If Barry Bonds plays for the Yanks I’m done with this team…and when this same lineup they have now has another carbon copy playoff disaster next year, some people will still be calling it bad luck. Viewing the world with rose-colored glasses is fine, as long as you don’t start believing it’s reality…It isn’t god, a black cat or some witch doctor making the Yanks lose, OK? And keeping the lineup they have won’t win the Yanks any titles. You can book that…
Oh, and as for the “lot of good grinders did the Angels”? Yes, it absolutely did do them some good. They won a World Series in ’02 and then whipped our asses in the ’03 Division Series. Proof positive? Um, yep it is…
G’night!!!
Somehow, I’m disappointed about the Yanks season ending tonight, but I’m left feeling really good about this season. it really was one of the most engaging, enjoyable and rewarding seasons in my 47 years as a Yankees fan.
I do feel sad that this is the end of an era, as I’m pretty sure that Torre, Mo, Jorge et al will be gone. Many thanks to all those guys for being who they are and for having accomplished all that they did.
With that said, I do think that I am ready for major changes. It’s time. I’ve seen a number of different generations of Yankees teams under Topping and Webb, CBS and King George I. Change ain’t so bad. I’ll be sad to see the old guys – old friends, really – go. I’m eager to see what the future brings.
First, thank you, Pete, for such a great site. I live in Vegas and your blog feels like I’m in the Bronx.
As far as changes to the NYY are concerned, I hope we make very few. Although the silence of our bats will be cited for our failure in this Cleveland series, offensively we are in very good shape. Our young guys, Cano and Melky, are coming along and our vets are still relatively solid. Abreu and Damon turned it around, Jete and Jorgie had stellar years and Arod carried this team like no Yankee has in my lifetime (and I watched Mantle in the first game I ever attended).
What we have lacked for the past several years has been starting pitching and it was the failure of starting pitching that got us in the hole we were in after the first quarter of the season. And, our lack of a dominant #1 and #2 are the essential reason why we have failed to get deep into the post season for as long as we have.
Hopefully Andy will pick up his option for ’08. There are 1458 innings in a season. If we can have a starting line of Pettite, Hughes, Joba, Wang and Kennedy can take 1000 of them. Convert Moose to a a set-up man and alternate that role between him and Viz. That’s another 150 innings. Mo closes for 75 more innings. Igawa, Rasner, Karstens, Farnsworth and Igawa can split the remaining 233 innings…most of those innings are in blowouts anyway.
Personally, I think that, before we going pointing fingers at Steinbrenner, or Torre, or Wang, or Jeter, or Clemens, or whoever is the current goat du jour, we fans might just once point at ourselves and ask how we may have contributed to this loss?
Did Arod really deserve to be practically desecrated the past few years? Does a Wang, who is a good #2 and a great #3, deserve to have this loss pinned on him? After all Jeter has done for this club, does a poor 4 games make him now persona non grata?
Give me a break.
Even Farnsworth…does any fan that really wants to see the Yankees win seriously think that booing him–during the introductions!–is going to be a motivator?
Almost every free agent we’ve ever signed has seen his production decline during his first year in New York. Maybe WE have something to do with it.
Bob you are so right. The inability to distinguish luck from probable expected outcome is a curse in this sport (as in many endeavors). The INdians bated something like .500 with 2 outs and RISP this series. You can’t even do that over the long haul inbatting pracice. And if being “cltch” is the explnation, then how come no player is able to replicate succeess like this from year to year?
In the 2001 WS, the Yankees put up a cumulative BA/OBP/SLG line of 183/240/288 vs 264/325/394 for Arizona. And they wer one inning away from winning the series. And last year the Cardinals were probably not among the ten best teams in all of baseball. $hit happens. Make some change? Of course, but tossing the best players in the game like ARod overboard for mediocre guys with fleeting post season magic dust is illogical, mystical, and immature.
Michael -
You are so right for saying Bob is so right.
Michael, great post (and not just because you’re backing me up)
Chicago Dave: “It isn’t god, a black cat or some witch doctor making the Yanks lose, OK?”
Um, that’s actually what you’re arguing. You are arguing with psychobabble that the Yanks were somehow “unclutch” and that we lost to the “clutchiness” of the Indians. Where was Captain Clutch, DJ, El Capitan, when we needed him in the 9th? How about all of those ground into double plays?
The point is this stuff happens, and there isn’t a reason for everything. Over the course of A Rod’s season, he had stretches of 0 for 12, 0 for 18. Was he somehow magically unclutch in those games as well? No. These things just happen. It’s like flipping a coin 100 times, there will be strings of 5 or 6 heads in a row…it’s a product of chance. There’s no need to overhaul the offense because of some bad luck.
The Yanks actually did get some hits, they just couldn’t string them together. So only one guy an inning was clutch, and the others choked? It’s ludicrous…it was simply bad luck that they were able to line their hits up and our homers came with no one on, period, end of story. Over a large sample, the Yanks were a better offensive club than the Indians, over a small sample, anything can happen, and the Indians were a better offensive club. It’s not the end of the world.
It was so sweet watching the Cleveland Indian players celebrating right on the yankees home field!!!
I love it!!!!
Or…to paraphrase long time Yankee’s field announcer Bob Sheppard, and the words he uses at the end of every Yankee’s home win…. “Tribe WINS! – Tribe WINS- yeeaaaahh! Tribe WINS!!!!”
George Steinbrenner you’re fired!
Hey SJ44 You guys sucked.
Get over it already. You were beat by the better team.
Piss poor Yankees, “Here come the Yankees”, Yankees got screwed and dem bugs etc. etc. etc.
Accept defeat a**holes! You got your eastcoast asses whipped.
Now its Boston’s turn to be our bitches.
I’m glad to read sensible posts by Michael, Bob, and Eric.
I’m sorry to see Torre go, and I’d wish he’d adjust to the game sometimes instead of following everything by the same plan.
My 2 cents on pitching
-A rotation of Wang, Pettite, Joba, Kennedy,and Hughes shall be good enough to be in play-off, but might be better have the young arms another 1-2 years to mature.
-Need two dominant SPs for play-off. Wang and Pettite are great but not as dominant as CC S/Carmona this year. Wang still young and not aggressive, Pettite might not be able to handle two games in three days.
-Get one #1 starter and correct Wang’s weakness
-Bullpen has been shaky all season long and made SPs under pressure to at least go 8 inns. Need to get reliable long relivers
Hmmm…let’s look at all the excuses the yankee fans are coming up with as to why their team bowed out early in the playoffs:
1) The bugs in Cleveland
2) Bad luck
3) Anything can happen in a short series
4) Wrong players at the wrong positions at the wrong times.
5) Pressure by George Steinbrenner
6) It’s the manager’s fault
Take the advice of Tumblty 3 posts above – the yankees were simply beat by the better team on the playing field, period.