Yankees have a decision to make
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- October
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There’s a new rule that allows teams to replace an injured player in the middle of a playoff series.
There are a few catches, however.
A pitcher can only be replaced by a pitcher and a position player by a position player. Also, any player replaced cannot play in the next series.
So if the Yankees want to, they can replace Roger Clemens with another pitcher.
The idea was “under discussion” as we left the Stadium last night. Frankly, I’m not sure why they wouldn’t do it. Clemens is certainly done for a week or two and probably for good. There is no chance he could pitch again this series.
The Yankees would seem to have four options: Chris Britton, Ian Kennedy, Edwar Ramirez and Ron Villone.
IPK has been working out in Tampa but did get the weekend off to get married. He’s clearly the best of the bunch but has never pitched in relief. He also hasn’t pitched in a game since Sept. 13.
Britton, Ramirez and Villone have stayed with the Yankees since the end of the season and have been throwing bullpens. There are pros and cons for each of them. Frankly, none should be trusted in a big spot.
My call? Ramirez. He could probably strike out a guy or two if needed. Villone being left-handed is tempting, however.
Once we get the news today, I’ll pass it along.
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on Monday, October 8th, 2007 at 10:50 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
kennedy because he has the best raw stuff of the group and can give length if torre needs it.
i heart pete abe’s blog.
first second and third posts. nice.
I want IPK. Best pitcher of them all. Period. Thats the only thing that matters.
They should activate Villone-they need a lefty for all the
lefties on the tribe.They do NOT need skeletor(Ramirez) giving up bombs to Hafner,Martinez,etc on his changeup.The reason George does not talk to the media,is he is senile,with only short periods of being lucid.Fortunately or unfortunately,one of the lucid periods was when O”Connor called.This is very common in geriatrics.
Disagree with you here….need to go with Ian Kennedy. The only thing he has done this season at the ML level is be effective….19 very good innings….Ramirez, Britton, Villone can’t even say that. The “he has never pitched in relief” argument is weak. Hughes only did it once before yesterday, I believe, and basically saved our season last night. You need to go with the best arm here and clearly he is heads and shoulders above the rest. Plus, the beauty of Kennedy is that he is a starter and can go long if need be (yes, I know he has not pitched in a while, but he has done it before and is young and hopefully healthy). The benefit of that, is that if somebody starts off terribly (see Rocket last night) you basically get a Mulligan.
I’m in the IPK camp.
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There’s a reason guys like Britton, Ramirez, & Villone are relievers. They’re not good enough to be starters. Kennedy is, clearly has the best stuff of the bunch, and if the lessons of Hughes and Chamberlain have taught us anything, it’s that stuff makes up for any lack of experience involved in coming out of the bullpen.
Not that I’m looking ahead, but considering the role this pitcher will play in this series, and then what the role of the player will be in the ALCS if they get there, it should be a bullpen arm for this round, and then bring in IPK to take the roster spot for the ALCS.
I’d prob take Villone; Edwar has the chance to miss bats, but for me also has as much chance of giving up a big fly in a tight spot. all talent being equal (taking IPK out of the equation), experience gets my vote.
I’d bring up Kennedy. I don’t trust Edwar in a big spot.
I wrote last night that I’m in the Ian Kennedy camp, and I still am.
However, as I wrote last night, I see Kennedy as more of an option for Game 5 than Game 4 (unless it’s a crazy game, be it because of injuries or very long extra innings, I don’t see Kennedy pitching tonight. If he does, that means Wang AND Mussina are out of the game, and that can’t be good).
So the question is whether the Yankees want an extra reliever TONIGHT or a long man for WEDNESDAY.
I wonder why they would would go with Britton, Ramirez or Villone. They have other guys in the pen they trusted more a week ago and still can’t use when it matters. I don’t think you can bring any of them in for an out or two in a close game and in a blowout they have other guys who can pitch an inning or two. Ramirez is useful as a strikout pitcher but do you trust him in an important situation with a runner on second or third? I would say only Kennedy gives Torre someone useful out of the pen. He can come in and pitch several innings either middle relief or extra innings. That could be big on Wednesday (if they win tonight).
After what our young players, Joba and Hughes, have shown us in this series so far, how do you not take the third of the trio in this series? IPK has great stuff and great control and has only shown good things. Let’s stick with our youth. Joba and IPK have been mentioned in the same breath since the beginning of the season. He won’t disappoint. Our old guys just don’t cut it anymore. Villone and Edwar aren’t to be trusted in big spots. Sometimes you need someone the other team hasn’t seen, especially in the postseason.
IPK is the right choice. The rookies have proven themselves to be trustworthy. I’d have no problem handing Kennedy the ball. True, he hasn’t come out of the pen, but neither had Hughes or Chamberlain and look how that’s turned out.
2nd choice would be ramirez because, as Pete points out, he could come in and get a batter or two in a tight spot. His change up is a great weapon.
Villone would be my 3rd choice because of the lefty thing.
Please, no Britton. He was great in AAA, but he hasn’t shown much since being brought up. He just can’t be trusted at this point.
I am for IPK as well, he seems to be fearless & throws strikes. Sure he will give up a run or two, a la Hughes, but Torre doesn’t trust Villone, Ramirez or Britton for that matter either way, he would only use them to mop up. I believe he trusts Kennedy in a big spot after his other options were unable to pitch or had been used. IPK it is.
I’d take either kennedy or villone. although i think edwar is great. but if torre didn’t trust the other guys last night why should he trust him when you need a K. i would go with kennedy and leave hughes as the long reliver cuz we saw he can certainly do it.
Clearly a no-brainer. Ian if he’s healthy! Ramirez,while he strikes out many, gives up a BOMB every 3 or 4 innings & Villone NEVER could even get out the lefty he was hired to face, let alone anyone else. Britton has had less chances to annoy me than those two, so by default he would be my second choice. Ian will be really good for a long time & I absolutely trust him. The other three not at all. oo bad Viz lost his edge with overuse, he was so great for awhile.
I agree with Buck Foston. IPK is the man. He will want to shine in front of his bride and has the goods over the others mentioned. Phil has done his part in long relief and IPK could also be used in that role.
I’d go with Kennedy, followed by Villone, Britton, then Ramirez. With Ramirez he’s either going to give up a bomb or strike someone out. I’m not willing to flip a coin in the playoffs. And for me the big pull is just having a lefty in there…so I might even be persuaded to go with Villone.
Series would be 2-1 Yankees if not for:
1) Swarms of killer flying ants
2) Torre leaving in Joba who couldn’t throw strikes instead of bringing in Rivera for the final out of the 8th against Victor Martinez
in game 2
I dont trust Ramirez as far as I can throw him. (actually im a pretty big guy and hes scrawny so I bet I can throw him far).
There is no question. You bring up IPK. I dont even see how it is a discussion. He was going to be added to the LCS roster anyway. Bringing anyone else up would be a waste of a position and a liability.
I say go with Villone. I mean Ian Kennedy isn’t coming in in relief in a big jam situation. If there’s a lefty, Villone could be the best option. Then, after the series, call up IPK and send down Villone. Mr. Kennedy will be the long man and possible 4th starter. if they go with him over Moose. Kennedy won’t help out this series. But he could be huge next series vs. Boston.
IPK if he is healthy all the way, let the kids play and its nice to see them getting the job done.
JT – contact info?
Hey Pete,,,why don’t you drive over to The Boss’ house right now and bang on the door and DEMAND that George tell you RIGHT NOW what he plans to do. After all, YOU and ALL the rest of the NY Media, the NY Fans and every person in society is ENTITLED to know what is going on, right ?
Hey Buck ( by the way..I love your name ) Pete has posted that your name and names like it our not allowed…Just an FYI…( again I love your name, personally )
I agree with the lefty idea. What are Villone’s splits this season?
IPK — No doubt about it. As long as he’s healthy and not hung over from his wedding still, he’s the guy.
Villone is a distant second. I just don’t think Villone is particularly effective against LH right now.
Edwar and Britton need to remain cheerleaders.
That said, I hope Rocket isn’t sitting there telling himself and the team that he’ll be there for them Friday night in Boston when we win this series. I was at the game last night and I don’t think there are any more bullets left in his arm. He tried and gave it a great shot last night and if Jeter doesn’t botch the throw in the 1st inning, he probably doesn’t throw 30 pitches then and it’s a different game, but I don’t think he’s got the stuff to take up the spot right now especially now that he’s hurt.
If IPK is healthy, he should replace Veras for the ALCS. We don’t need any of those guys for this series. Clemens is *probably* done and certainly shouldn’t start another game, but I believe in a week he *might* be able to pitch a few innings in relief, which would be more valuable than throwing Villone, Bruney or Edwar in there. Again, this depends on how Roger is feeling which of course I have no knowledge of. But if Roger can possibly return in a week it is worth taking the chance. If we make it to the ALCS and he has made no progress than replace him with IPK then and keep Veras. Will any one of those pitchers make an impact in the next two games? No. So no reason to make a quick move and eliminate the chance of using Roger later on.
i think Villone actually has better splits vs RH batters than LH batters.
Kennedy would be the right move. Villone is nearly shot at this point and Ramirez isn’t mentally ready to handle the playoffs yet. Ramirez showed that he wasn’t equipped to handle playoff pressure when he was crying after the game against Tampa Bay a couple of months ago.
Meanwhile up I-95 North in Beansville, they’re getting fat and overly rested in anticipation of the ALCS.
Little do they know their bubble is about to burst.
THE DUDE
BOJI23@YAHOO.COM
Kennedy as the long man if it goes into extras.
I concur with the IPK supporters. It’s a no-brainer if he’s healthy.
I used to be a Ramirez fan, but he’s apparently a feast-or-famine pitcher. We don’t want a Russian roulette experience from anyone on the playoff roster.
I’d still go with Britton as a second callup, but Torre will never use him unless we have a 10 run lead. Even then, he would probably go to Vizcaino first.
Villone is a mediocre lefty who might have nothing left. We have too many guys on the team who fit the “might have nothing left” description as is.
Ian Kennedy…not necessarily for this series so much. But I have a feeling we will mow through Wang, Mussina, and Pettitte in the next 2 games, and perhaps even another Hughes appearance in Game 5.
We likely won’t have anyone available to start Game 1 of the ALCS. Enter Ian Kennedy.
The alternatives ? While they are nice mop up guys, let’s be reasonable. None of them can be trusted in a close game. In fact, Farnsworth and Vizcaino rate WELL ahead of them, so they likely wouldn’t even be used in the ALDS, even if doomesday occurs.
You bring up Kennedy with the thought that you’ll actually need him next series.
K-E-N-N-E-D-Y
I’d much rather see Kennedy than any of the others. Not only is he simply the best pitcher, but with Clemens out of the picture that forces Hughes into being the sole long-man, and he’s already pitched in 2 games (the first one seemingly for no reason, but I digress.
Should the Yankees advance to the ALCS, Hughes most likely becomes a potential starter to replace Clemens, and you’d need a long man in the ‘pen. That role is best filled by Kennedy as well. I realize you could use a Ramirez now and Kennedy for the ALCS, but he’s just the best all-around option.
I think everyone agrees that Kennedy is the best option, if he can pitch. Like it or not, there’s a chance that Pettitte could get bombed on Wednesday, and we have nobody to take over.
I don’t think it’s likely that he’ll pitch in a typical one-inning relief role if Pettitte keeps us in the game – Joba and Mo for 2 each on Wednesday if necessary.
Kennedy is absolutely necessary for the ALCS, that’s a no-brainer. I’m talking solely about this series.
If not Kennedy and the prognosis for Clemens is uncertain (i.e. not definitely out for the ALCS), then I think you don’t take anyone. For Britton or Villone to make a difference, the game would have to go about 17 innings.
edwar should replace clemens
villone should replace ohlendorf if the yanks make it to bean town .
IPK. Unless he can’t pitch tonight, its not even close. Villone has awful numbers against the Indians. Lofton is 4-8 with 3 BB and only one K. Hafner is 0-5 with no Ks. Its conceivable that you bring in Villone to face Hafner, but he would be the only one you want him facing. Victor Martinez is 3-5 with a double and a homer and 2BB against Villone.
Torre justifiably has no confidence in Edwar or Britton and I can’t see him using either in any meaningful role. If IPK has been doing his work on the side he really is the third best option out of the pen (next to Joba and Mo). In a blow out I could see him getting an inning to see what he has (similar to Hughes in Game one, though hopefully it would be us in the lead). If he does well you could find a weapon for the rest of the playoff run.
I say Kennedy. Also,I still don’t see why Bruney was sent home instead of Britton. You never know when you may need anothe pitcher. I will conceed though,that if we have to go through the 4 Ps that were left off the roster but kept in NY are used and Bruney is called back,a series would be in trouble.
IPK all the way… what will be the starting 4 for the ALCS should we make it? We need a starter…that is what clemens was. we replace like with like… sounds too simple but it seems true…
I think you have to take a shot and try to replace him on the roster. It could be a break to add an arm like Villone who may be able to LOOGY Pronk Hafner in a big spot during Game Four (or Five).
Lefty batters had a BABIP of .230 against Villone in 2007 – and it was .231 in 2006.
Humor me for a second here. How bad, exactly, is Clemens hurt? Could he possibly get us a batter or two in the next two games? He did K Martinez with his last pitch.
I love Kennedy, but at this point, we’re going to live or die with CMW and Pettitte, and the back-end of the bullpen. Given Torre’s complete (and justified) mistrust of anyone not named Joba or Mariano, Clemens could be an X-factor, a la David Cone in the 2000 World Series.
Anyone? Buehler?
“It could be a break to add an arm like Villone who may be able to LOOGY Pronk Hafner in a big spot during Game Four (or Five). Lefty batters had a BABIP of .230 against Villone in 2007 – and it was .231 in 2006.”
You realize that this is evidence that Villone is even worse against lefties than he appears to be, right?
“Also,I still don’t see why Bruney was sent home instead of Britton.”
I don’t see why you post here when you’ve clearly never watched a Yankee game (or at least one that Bruney pitched in) in your life.
The last time Edwar Ramirez had an extended period of inactivity, he came into a game and couldn’t throw a strike (he walked the bases loaded and then game up a grand slam). No to Edwar after this long break.
Ian Kennedy was hurt and now also hasn’t pitched in a while. He’s been working out, but it’s not the same. People keep saying he has the best “raw stuff,” which isn’t true. Edwar, with his filthy change, has the best “stuff,” but Kennedy is the consistent pitcher — he throws strikes. It’s kind of hard to ask him to take so much time off and then come into a playoff game. If he doesn’t have a feel for his pitches he could be very ineffective.
People seem to be thinking of him as a starter in the next round (if the next round happens). Who would he replace right now? Moose? Hughes?
Asking Kennedy to pitch in relief, which he did once in the minors this year and couldn’t throw a strike, seems a little dangerous.
I’d probably go with Villone too and use him strictly as a LOOGY.
My call Villone.
Steve Lombardi wrote: “It could be a break to add an arm like Villone who may be able to LOOGY Pronk Hafner in a big spot during Game Four (or Five). Lefty batters had a BABIP of .230 against Villone in 2007 – and it was .231 in 2006.�
To which Jon wrote: “You realize that this is evidence that Villone is even worse against lefties than he appears to be, right?”
No, Jon…he doesn’t. Which is why it’s pretty funny.
Kennedy is a no brainer provided that he is healthy. I have a feeling Joe will go with Villone just to give him the security blanket of having a lefty in the bullpen, even if that lefty is not very good.
Ridiculous, IPK. With Wang and Petite coming on short rest and Hughes being spent for the series I would like to have someone who could eat a few innings (please don’t suggest Moose). The problem with the pen is all these situational guys trying to go multiple innings just doesn’t work.
As much as I like him, leave IPK off the roster. Bring in someone uwho familiar with relieving. Unless of courese you would be willing to start IPK in the ALCS, if we make it.
Looking ahead, the Yanks would have to start Hughes or Moose in game 1 of ALCS. Followed by Wang, Petite and ?
Torre muat manage like there is no tomorrow, without worrying about the ALCS. But if we get there, the reality is no CMW or AP for game 1.
I would make absolutely certain that Clemens is done for a week or more. Then I would go with Villone. He has been decent vs. lefties throughout his career. His numbers this season reflect a lot of mopup duty and the fact that Myers got most of the matchup opportunities.
Hafner hits lefties pretty well, but Cleveland has other guys like Nixon and Lofton who are neutralized by anyone throwing with their left hand.
My vote is for Kennedy.
This may be an odd question, but here goes:
If the Yankees decide to replace Clemens, does this mean that he cannot be on the bench for the remainder of this, or possibly the next, series?
My point is of course that I would hate to lose the presence of Clemens on the bench. I think he adds something in the way of intensity, confidence, excitement, and undoubtedly bits of wisdom to an already intense, confident, excited, and wise ball club. I am not saying that the aforementioned qualities are more valuable then a healthy player (though it’s possible they are); I am simply curious about the rule, as I would hate to lose one of the greatest pitchers of all time – no matter his role.
Kennedy.
If the kid is healthy enough to pitch, I don’t know why this is even a question.
Pete: you are too enamorous of Edwar’s inordinately high K totals against crappy teams. Get away from that and realize that Kennedy is by far the best pitcher of the bunch, has the mental makeup to handle the postseason pressure (unlike Ramirez or Britton) and Villone’s not a lefty specialist so that matchup helps very little (and only encourages Torre to use a useless reliever in pressure situations).
Use the replacement today. The way I read the description of the rule, it means Clemens cannot pitch in the ALCS if the Yanks make it but Kennedy can. If the Yanks get a large lead (hoping. . .), put the kid in for an inning so he gets his bearings again.
I doubt Clemens has to leave the bench, after all the AG is on the pine even though he’s not on the postseason roster.