Boras: A-Rod should opt out
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 09, 2007 
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In comments to a wide assortment of reporters, most of them based in New York, Scott Boras says that he will recommend that Alex Rodriguez opts out of his contract.
Boras is saying A-Rod can play until he’s 45, hit 1,000 home runs and and be worth up to $1 billion for a regional cable television network. He seems to be seeking at least a 10-year deal worth an average of $33 million a year.
Brian Cashman said again today that the Yankees would not pursue Rodriguez if he becomes a free agent.
There are two possibilities here. Boras and Cashman mean what they say and A-Rod is gone. Or this is just the start of posturing.
The Yankees are almost certainly going to offer A-Rod a contract extension. What Boras said today is essentially the start of those negotiations.
A-Rod has until 10 days after the World Series to inform the Yankees of his intentions.
We can win with him, and we can win without him. In my estimation, he is not worth $33 million a year. I’d rather spend that money on pitching.
I also don’t buy the argument that the Yankees need AROD to put people in the seats in the new Stadium. All you have to do is put a winning team on the field and the people will come.
Boras is posturing, and I’m sure his numbers are a load of Bull.
Then goodbye A-Rod. If he wants to stay in NY and isn’t man enough to tell his agent to kiss off, then forget him. If he does want to opt out knowing full well the Yanks won’t pursue him as a FA, then he didn’t want to be here anyway. How much money does one man need?
Pete-
Where is this quote, where is the “recommendation?” How does what Boras said exclude an extension from the Yankees?
I don’t get it. I’m reading this same story all over the internet, with ZERO quotes from Boras recommending an opt-out.
Nice job by the media, as usual.
Let me say, I’m first. Just home from Springsteen at the Meadowlands, it was awesome. Much better than the crap I watched last night in the Bronx. All is well here. fyi
What’s more, how does this affect Boras’ future dealings with the Yankees? He needs them for his future free agents.
We’ll see if A-Rod actually means what he’s been saying these past few months about staying in New York.
Ok I wasn’t first. So in regards to A Rod, there is no wrong answer. Sign him for a gazillion during the next ten days or let him move on. Both answers are correct.
Question for Bor-ASS:
Will your boy continue to flounder in the postseason?
I thought it was the player who told the agent what his decision was. Now we are hearing that Boras is “recommending” A-Rod opt out. Boras is a jackass who thinks he can stick it to all the GM’s in baseball just because he was a lighting hitting terrible second basemen who couldnt make the majors. He wants to live vicariously through those he represents by having teams fawn over his client and offer outrageous sums of money. What he doesnt realize is that he isnt doing what is best for his client. If A-Rod leaves NY for 30 million a year, the media will bash him just like they bashed when he took 25 mil from Texas.
That contract created a huge burden for him just as a new 30 million dollar one would create an even heavier burden. And if there one thing A-Rod has proven time and again, he cant handle pressure. Boras should realize Alex is best served being in NY where he is surrounded by dozens of other stars, a controversial owner, the constant rivalry with the Red Sox, and about a thousand other sports stories going at a time. If he stays, there will be no more questions about his loyalty to the almighty dollar, just whether he can perform in postseason which he would get in any other city as well. And with Torre gone, there is truly nothing negative left for A-Rod to worry about in NY that he wouldnt get elsewhere with about a ton more added pressure.
But of course, Boras doesnt care about what is best for his client, all he wants to do is get his name in the paper once again for suckering a team into ponying up for a player that is about 20 times the player he ever was.
The worst part of all this is that Boras didnt even bother negotiating with the Red Sox when they won the bid for Deuce-K. He took their 6 year deal when he should have fought for a shorter deal to get his client to free agency earlier but apparently Boras appears to cave when it comes to the Red Sox. I expect to see Alex playing in Boston next year for less than 20 million a year.
That is just absurd. A-Rod is a fantastic player but come on. If he decides to turn down whatever offer the Yankees make and leave, I say good riddance. Good luck making as much money anywhere else without the Yankees involved in the bidding process.
If he does leave, I hope Cano or someone will switch to #13 so my $150 jersey doesn’t go to waste haha.
Yes, Boras is terrible. Just ask JD Drew, Chan Ho Park, Darren Dreifort, Arod (I), Barry Zito, Johnny Damon…
You are certainly allowed to hate the guy, but don’t think that he isn’t the best agent in the game if your goal is to make as much money as possible.
Just because Boras recommends A-Rod opt-out doesn’t make it set in stone. Boras is basically telling the Yankees that they’ll have to pay a TON to keep him from opting out. Cashman is basically saying we are willing to pay Alex a TON as long as Texas is helping with the heavy lifting. Sometime in November we will read that Cashman has offered to extend AROD for 8 years 260mil or so and at that time we will se if Alex really wants to be a Yankee
I’m so glad we didnt get Dice-K
And i really hope we sign AROD
Hey, I don’t care how much money Scott Boras makes for HIM or HIS CLIENTS….he is a Jerk, IMO, and I don’t like him…and I KNOW that I am not alone on this…
To be honest, I’m more concerned about Posada and Mo.
I’d love A-Rod to stay, but I won’t be too upset if he doesn’t…not like I’ll be if Posada or Mo left.
If I ever have a son who plays baseball I definitely want Boras as his agent. Hopefully Boras is not too old and senile by then.
If A-Rod opts out, he is going to do what Bonds did and chase a ring for the next 12 years, and most likely retire without one. Yeah he will get the records no matter where he goes, but I would rather have a ring.
Well SUPPOSEDLY, when you pay a professional for his advice you are supposed to follow it. I’m not sure that Boras is technically his lawyer in this matter but you are supposed to follow the advice of your doctor or lawyer. If Boras/A-Rod opt out then that is it – Boras has to understand that the subsidy from Texas is too important for the Yankees to lose. Who else will pay $30 Million/PA to extend a contract that was demonstrably misguided?
This will be a HUGE decision and I believe if they choose to opt-out that there has been a handshake with someone else ie. tampering.
If you are going to pay him 330 million over 10 years does the 21 million from Texas really matter that much. It isn’t even 10% of the money owed. I don’t think that 21 million is going to make or break anything, at least it shouldn’t. I don’t think Steinbrenner is going to be hurting if that Texas money goes away. Seriously why would that little bit of money(compartively) really have that big of an effect of whether or not he comes back????
There’s no way to spin this in a positive view.
Cashman has repeatedly said that A-Rod opting out will keep him out of New York. I happen to like that stance and I hope the Yankees as an organization keep it and don’t chase A-Rod.
If A-Rod really “loves” New York like he has been saying all season long, there really should be no excuse to not get a deal done.
If A-Rod opts out, he’s as good as gone and deservingly so.
Bor-ass is a great agent for a player if you dont care what planet you will play on but a pain in the butt for a GM to deal with. Boras is just talking and talking like he always does. Just like Dice K was getting 10 years and he is a “player that you build your franchise around”..LOL but he cant get any decent team out. Cashman is not stupid and he knows how to deal with Boras(ex. Damons take it or leave it deal). Arod is 32 he is not getting a 10 year deal. Cashman will offer something close to $30m a year for 5 years and say take it or leave it. There is no competitive team that will offer anything close to that amount and Boras and his big head knows that. This is why people dont like Arod, he is the highest paid player and still needs a dog and pony show. Jeter would never act like this. Cashman should say listen Arod either you want a monument in monument park or you want to squeeze every last dime out of some pathetic last place team(ex. Giants) and be remember as a great player that left the big city for last place $$$$$$$.
330/21=6.36% of the total deal to add to my point
Cashman had an interesting choice of words earlier today on a sports talk radio show. When asked if the Yankees were still sticking to the plan of not pursuing Alex if he opts out, Cashman said “That would be my recommendation to ownership”
Guess what this means. Just because Cashman doesn’t want to pursue him doesn’t mean ownership (the Steinbrenners) won’t. Steinbrenner loves superstar players. Alex will be back one way or another, even if Cashman has to be overruled by the owners.
raymagnetic – right now. If Boras and ARod were ready to start a bidding war Boras would have already said ARod is opting out. This is what you should expect a superagent for the best player in the planet to say. I am surprised that he said ARod is ONLY worth a measly $1,000,000,000 to the YES Network. Boras works harder for a dollar than any stripper in Vegas. I am sure that Cashman has lots of singles.
I seriously hope the Yankees are not considering giving A-Rod a 333-million-dollar contract. Just typing that amount makes me a gag a little. I know A-Rod locates his worth in what people are willing to pay him, but be real. Getting paid twenty-five million a year finally simmered down. Now he would have to hear about being “the first thirty-million-dollar player.”
The whole thing is just obscene. If he needs that much money, then let the Sox or Cubs pay him it.
I’d rather have a player that goes .290/30/100 and hits in the postseason than a player that goes .314/54/156 and doesn’t.
*Number of Days to Spring Training 2008*:
*140*
MJL, what Third Basemen is out there that can give us that kind of production?
Lowell? I think he stays in Boston and even if he didn’t he’s turning 34 and he feeds off that Green Monster, I don’t think he’d be the same player anywhere else.
What ever happened to Alex retiring at 35? I like the guy but his whole public persona really irritates me
You’re nuts if you think Rodriguez can’t hit in the postseason. He’s a career .279 career hitter in the postseason, in only 1.5 months worth of at-bats. If he had more postseason at-bats, that number would probably get closer to his typical numbers. But .279 is better than the postseason batting averages of the following “clutch” players:
Brosius (.245)
Tino (.233)
Posada (.236)
Bernie (.275)
Manny Ramirez (.260)
Sheffield (.248)
Damon (.278)
Lofton (.249)
DIMAGGIO (.271)
MANTLE (.257)
Mr. OCTOBER !!! (.278)
I mean come on, this notion that ARod can’t hit in October just shows how widespread the ignorance is. His career postseason batting average is better than all of those guys!!
Sure it’s ok to not want to pay A-Rod the money. But you can’t say it’s because he doesn’t produce in October.
Even if we save $35 million a year by not signing A-Rod, can we actually use it to buy the kind of dominant pitching we want? In order to purchase something, that thing has to exist. And looking at the list of free agent starters for the 2007-2008 offseason, I just don’t see anything worth buying.
Obviously, obviously, Cashman would kick ARod out the door in a heartbeat if he knew the $35mil a year saved could buy him two legitimate front-end starters, giving him the dream rotation of Ace1, Ace2, Wang, Joba, Hughes. That’s a no brainer bye-bye to Alex.
But chances are that $35mil won’t buy you great pitching because there is no great pitching to buy.
There are plenty, maybe not on the Free Agent market this year but they’re certainly out there for trade. Miguel Cabrera, Garrett Atkins, Ryan Zimmerman, Edwin Encarnacion come to mind.
I’ve read alot of the articles online tonight about all things Yankee and this is all alot of posturing.
It’s no coincidence that Boras and Cashman are both using the word “recommending” when talking about the negotiation process. Boras would recommend that A-Rod opt out. Cashman would recommend that the yanks not negotiate if the opt out is put in effect. This isn’t about Cashman or Boras though. It is between A-Rod and Yankees ownership who are the only ones on the hook for a contract. Boras and Cashman are just the respective mouthpieces.
Either A-Rod or Steinbrenner gets to be the hero. Alex for saying I told Boras to get it done, I love playing for the NY Yankees and their fans. Or Steinbrenner when Cashman says the only thing important to this owner is fielding the best team because we have the greatest fans in the world.
I had a history professor who once told us that most questions could be answered with the phrase “for economic reasons” That applies here. Why will A-Rod stay or opt out? For economic reasons. Why will Cashman stick to his stance or back down and negotiate? For economic reasons.
$330 mil for 10 years?! that’s out of this goddam world! 1. $33 mil/year!, 2. through his age 41 season! the ONLY way i’d ever consider giving that kind of money to anyone would be if Babe Ruth or Walter Johnson rose from the grave as 21-year-olds.
deep sigh, Just more early negotiating in the guise of posturing. it’s getting old, Scotty!
Boras is just taking advantage of all the press coverage of the yankees to get in his two cents. Expect a repeat of this act when the yanks make an announcement about the managerial situation.
Peter –
Why don’t you split those stats up between before he came to New York and since? You might notice some interesting trends.
oops–meant to say:
“Boras is just taking advantage of all the press coverage of the yankees TODAY to get in his two cents.”
“Let me say, I’m first. Just home from Springsteen at the Meadowlands, it was awesome. Much better than the crap I watched last night in the Bronx.”
Springsteen played in the Bronx last night?
Does anyone know of a good website that has the terms of players’ contracts? I can’t find one that has info on when contracts are up and option info.
Oh, by the way, I’m new to the board. The board for Mark Feinsand’s blog is getting a little too red for my tastes.
Bill there is a link to the left of the page and it is called Cots Basbeall contracts. it is under Pete’s favortie baseball sites
Yes of course you notice a big split. He hit much much better in Seattle in the postseason. But we’re talking about how he hits in the postseason. The postseason exists outside of Yankee Stadium. Come on dude, you can’t just ignore his Seattle postseason numbers. They show that he has hit in october in the past. You cannot deny that.
And he was far from the worst Yankee hitter in this series, in case you didn’t notice.
But even forgetting that, what about Tino and Brosius and Posada? Their postseason numbers are terrible but they are beloved figures. A-Rod is just underappreciated by lots of self-absorbed Yankee fans looking for a scapegoat.
Guys, this is what Boras does. There should no surprise in what he is saying, and we all knew this was going to happen at the end of the year. He’s a pompous, assumptive, self-serving egomanical a$$. That is never going to change. His interests are always going to drive what comes out of his mouth, and we need to keep in mind that _Boras_ is the one saying these things publicly, _not_ Alex.
Everybody keeps saying that if Alex does this, good riddance. Fine, that’s IF he does it, and everybody is entitled to their opinion of him regardless. But until it’s clear that Alex is behind Boras’ blathering to the media, I see no sense in ripping him (ARod) to shreds. For all we know, Alex could be saying “Dude, can you just STFU for one minute for a change??” I’m sure they have discussed things and Alex is at the very least aware of what Boras is going to go for, but that doesn’t mean he necessary agrees with the delivery and the tactics.
Boras works for Alex, not the other way around. In the end, he will make the final decision, not his agent. If he wants to work something out to stay in New York, he will. Just the other day, he was asked about his plans and he responded by saying “Hopefully everything works out.” What does that tell you? He obviously has at the very least some interest in staying here. He has stated more than once this year that NY feels like home. As someone pointed out earlier today, Alex was a part of a team for the first time this year. He wasn’t the outsider looking in when it came to his teammates. That’s HUGE, trust me. Nobody in the world will simply take money as their sole factor if they feel unwanted and like an outsider 9 months out of the year. He may want the most money his agent can get him, but his personal stance could simply be “get me the best contract I can get that will keep me here”. Nothing any of us wouldn’t want from our employers if we contributed well above average and wanted to feel justified for staying at our jobs.
We’ve got a full month before Alex’s intentions are “due”. There’s no sense in popping arteries over it until then, and certainly not on account of anything Boras says.
Let me think… let’s see what 3rd baseman can give us the production of A-Rod? Hmmmm….
Post season stats…
A-Rod
147 AB
.279 avg
.361 obp
.483 slg
Miguel Cairo
61 AB
.328 avg
.414 obp
.459 slg
Mr. Cashman, please cave in to Mr. Boras’s demands. Please give him… pinky on my lips… one BILLION dollars.
Please stop the insanity.
Thanks Gayle!
Of course Boras is going to talk about his (alex’s) anciliarry value in this day and age of profit sharing that is thus far the one area (team owned tv networks) where teams can keep all the money to themselves and do not have to share it with others.
His free agent book certainly is not going to forecast out his playoff productiveness. And this negotiation is as much about Boras’ ego as it is Alex’s. he wants to keep being known as the agent who get the best contracts available as well as groundbreaking deals.
I have a feeling it will be all about the money and sad it is is to say it seems that for someone like Alex the contract is as much a burden to him as anything else.
Just curious where’s the direct quote? Of all the articles this is the first I’ve read of him recommending him to opt out.
Miguel Cairo wasn’t good enough to keep a roster spot over backup player Wilson Betemit. Come on, get real.
Deep to Left, i was just thinking that: Boras even looks a little like Dr. Evil. I can just see him putting his pinky on his lips, ‘One-hundred… trillion… dollars… mwahaha!’
Don’t remember if there was a direct quote but I read a good article about this online tonight. It was in the NY Times and I think it was written by Jack Curry earlier today.
MJL, I meant pitching. We need to focus on pitching, pitching, and more pitching – starters and bullpen. I know $35mil can buy a couple free agent bats, but we don’t need more of those.
What we need the most are front-end arms with experience to compliment the young (and therefore somewhat unreliable) guys we have right now, namely Phil, Joba, and CMW. If not that, then atleast 2-3 elite bullpen guys. I don’t think $35mil helps us in that regard.
Sorry, unreliable isn’t the right word….unpredictable is what I meant.
I think DEEP TO LEFT meant Miguel CABRERA, not CAIRO
MJL
October 9th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
I’d rather have a player that goes .290/30/100 and hits in the postseason than a player that goes .314/54/156 and doesn’t.
—————————————–
I’m sorry I have to bring you back to reality
Mike F’N Lowell !!!
In a contract year he is hitting .324 AVG w/ 21 HR and 120 RBI
*15 doubles 1 triple 14 HRS and 73 of his god damn RBIs are in Fenway Park !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
Lowell has a total 47 of his 120 RBI away from Fenway ! that would be an absolute down grade from Alex Rodriguez. How is Mike Lowell being put in this discussion do your homework when it comes to these players.
Peter,
I could give a flying rat’s a s s what AROD’s BA is total in the playoffs….when did any of those hits come when we NEEEDED them? I’m was jumping off my couch last nite when he it that homer in the 9th! (NOT!) I could care less where he goes, his wife is an a–hole, and I think she drives alot in his warped mind too. He’s full of crap about loving NY b/c if he did, he would just play out on his current contract for the love of the game. why more money? just to put even more pressure on? I don’t get it. if he played out his contract and didn’t opt out, he would be making a huge statement to not just the fans,but his teammates. Joe Torre always told him about when the Yanks fans would boo him, that when you are playing for the largest contract in baseball, they expect the largest results over every other player and when that doesn’t happen, you’re gonna hear it. basically, you created this for yourself, either learn to deal with it or don’t and suffer the consequences.
and I’m sorry for my out burst I get pissed off when names get thrown about w/o people bringing up good reasons why they would pan out.
I hope to see this guy in our team next year.
For people searching for quotes and documentation from Boras on his recommendation on opting out Jack Curry of the NY Times has the story posted this evening agreeing with everything that pete said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....ref=slogin
Boras is trying to get the yankees to negotiate against themselves. if they do this contract will be an albatross around they’re necks just as ARod’s contract was for Texas.
You’d like to think Boras works for ARod but there is precedent in that Texas contract that speaks volumes for Alex following the money and Boras’s recommendation. He’s done it once already.
Things might be different now. If Arod breaks the homerun record without winning a world series it will be a hollow accomplishment.
He can’t sign another Texas type contract. He needs the yankees as much as they need him. The yankees shouldn’t lose sight of that for a second.
Alvin
I agree it is all about pitching but where do you find those guys. Finding an elite free agent bullpen arm is almost impossible. Some teams would consider Farnsworth an elite bullpen arm since he was a closer before. How has that worked for the Yanks? Most teams, including the Yanks now, are working with the grow your own concept because it’s the best shot of finding that guy.
Brandon
any replacement for AROD would be a probably downgrade. however, a lot of other things could fall into place with a regular, hard-working, come to work every day, not playing for the money, player comes and then, when we get to Postseason (notice I’m assuming we will!), there is no pressure on this guy to perform, he just goes out there and let’s her rip and let the chips fall where they may.
who does this sound like? Broscius? Boone? I think alot of us fans would take that any day over this drama that surrounds AROD day in day out. I’m not a fan of drama!
With Seattle: 18/53 (.340), 3 HR, 8 RBI
With NYY: 23/94 (.245), 4 HR, 9 RBI
Not to mention his crazy hot streak since Game 4 of the ’04 ALCS…9/61 (.148).
I’ve been A-Rod’s biggest supporter since he got here, because I want him to do well and most importantly I want him to help us win. I spoke up for him all last season when everyone wanted to boo him and trade him to the Angels. But it’s obvious that when he gets to October in a Yankee uniform, something messes with his head. It’s quite clear from this most recent series that he so badly wants to be the hero…he swings for the fences on every pitch, completely abandoning his strategy from the regular season, being patient and waiting on that perfect pitch. How many times did he get struck out on three straight pitches, or go down swinging on a 1-2 count? He’s certainly not the only one who didn’t perform, but he also didn’t look intimidating up there hacking away. No wonder Wedge kept going after him, he was an easy out every time up. Don’t say he hits in the postseason when there is clearly a divide between his performance with two different teams.
Jeter’s wifey, as real as we are going to get here no offense but Jeter and Georgy were on a milk carton this series. They were the real goats of this series Georgy letting balls pass him and leading the team in runners LOB throughout the playoffs and then there is Jeter the horrible fielding at SS and leading this team in rally killing DPs.
No – I didn’t mean Miguel Cabrera… I meant Miguel CAIRO. Look it up.
Yardsma, I’m not an idiot. Of course I’m not saying that A-Rod is a better offensive player than Cairo. I’m trying to make a point. Please stretch your mind a little. I’m just pointing out A-Rod’s futility in the post season, while illustrating how role players can step up and really make a difference. That’s the legacy of the late 90′s team, when we had no superstars.
If Boras and A-Rod want to make selfish a$$es of themselves, let him walk. Somehow the Yankees managed to win 26 championships without him… and 0 with him. We’ll get by.
I want A-Rod in NY. But if he opts out, let him go. The $$ numbers are ridiculously out of line.
Brandon -
Uh, when did I bring up Mike Lowell?
Pat, that’s my point exactly. I was responding to other posters who wanted to save the $35 million a year that would otherwise go to ARod, and use it on quality starters and relievers.
My point was that such a statement is easier said than done because there’s simply nothing on the market buy when it comes to pitching.
Might as well spend the money on A-Rod then.
Miguel Cairo (in only 61 at-bats) is as productive as A-Rod? In A-Rod’s first 61 postseason AB’s, he hit .377. A 61-AB sample size is absurdly small. This is the problem with using postseason numbers to evaluate players. Batting averages fluctuate so quickly and you really need like 500 ABs or higher to get some stability.
Guess what, if you take one of the few players out there who has had almost a full season’s worth of AB’s in the postseason, one Mr. Clutch Derek Jeter, you will see that his postseason career numbers are almost the exact same friggin’ thing as his career regular season numbers. In fact, he is slightly worse in the postseason.
If you had to give one of Cairo or A-Rod 600 ABs in the postseason over their entire careers, you have to give it to A-Rod. Duh. The fact that I even have to type that sentence is ridiculous.
MJL who were you speaking off then ? because I assumed it was Lowell that is the thinking here usually
And Alvin, I wasn’t responding to you, look at my previous correspondence with Global Warming.
Thanks for Pat, I read the article
I wasn’t speaking of anyone specific, just saying that I think a bat that hits those numbers and also hit in the postseason is more valuable than one that wins the MVP in the regular season and doesn’t perform in the postseason. Look at the type of hitters we had during the Dynasty…a bunch of 20-30 home run guys who could stay consistent through the playoffs.
Aaron Boone is a Free Agent
Dear: what??
Sorry you can’t grasp my point. In no way was I ever trying to indicate that Cairo is a better offensive player than A-Rod. But if you choose to ignore that when A-Rod gets to the post-season, he goes through a Jeckyl and Hyde transformation, then go ahead… give him a billion dollars. We can talk again after the next post season is over and A-Rod has 140 more career RBI’s… and ONE more post-season RBI to his credit.
“play out on his current contract for the love of the game. why more money?”
Please tell me you are 17 and have never had a full time job. I said it earlier today, that while you may see this as a game; for players and ownership, this is a business. I want you to work for me if I negotiated a new contract with you and offered you a big raise and you turned it down because you loved your job.
“regular, hard-working, come to work every day, not playing for the money player”
There’s a name for players like that. They are called career minor leaguers.
MJL I understand your frustration, but I completely disagree with this idea that wearing a yankee uniform in the postseason makes you a different hitter than wearing a mariner uniform in october. The bottom line is that you are using an insanely small number of at-bats to judge him on. If you are this upset with him, you must really hate Jorge Posada who almost always sucks in the postseason. Or Scott Brosius, who is a terrible october hitter.
Look up any player that has had 300 + at-bats in their postseason careers. Most of them hit significantly worse in October than in the regular season. This is generally because they are facing better pitchers.
And Deep to Left, you can have Cairo on your postseason team any time you want. I’ll take A-Rod. Seriously dude, think about what you’re saying.
Don’t judge players on small sample sizes!!!!
And you are looking in the wrong place for postseason scapegoats if you are looking at the offense. Since 2004 it has clearly been the pitching. Sure the offense has been worse than usual, but all offenses do worse in the postseason. Our pitching has been below league average since 2004, and each of the teams we have faced in the 1st round of the playoffs since then have had far above average pitching. Their pitchers can do a reasonably good job of shutting down our bats, but our pitchers can’t match them. It’s that simple. If we get an actual ace or two, then we will win in october again. And we have a MUCH better chance to score runs with A-Rod than without him or with Cairo or whatever crappier player you want to sub for him.
Seriously, Miguel Cairo is one of the worst hitters in baseball. Even comparing him to A-Rod is a complete farce.
And the legacy of the 90′s teams was the dominant pitching. Any Yankee fan knows that. We had good pitching then and so we won in october. Now we don’t have shutdown starters, and so we lose. It is that simple.
Ok goodnight folks, time to rest up for work in the morning!
I understand that MJL, but we have never faced SP like we have in these last 2 seasons, last yr. it was Verlander, Bonderman, this yr. it was Sabathia and Carmona and unfortunately I love Joba but he choked a game away.
Now can you control when you get these hits ? absolutely not. In game one Alex had the best approach it was a don’t swing a crap pitches approach, then you have Jeter hits into DP, Wang cracking under pressure, Posada trying to hit a 5 run HR, Minky was batting vs Sabathia, that was a joke.
He is an MVP but the lineup more importantly the hitters weren’t getting on base consistantly enough between Matsui and and Posada I think they have 22 LOB’s Alex doesn’t even have more than 6 LOB in this series, he got his hits when he could the rest of the guys couldn’t draw a walk or hit into rally killing DPs
actually they just showed earlier in this thread that those 90′s yankee guys didn’t hit in the postseason either, so you’re wrong about that being the great thing about the dynasty teams. i think it was the excellent starters and good relievers.
I think there is so much unsettled with the Yankees right now that Alex would be nuts to take an extension until he knows who the manager and what direction the team is going. Would Alex want to be on a Yankee team with no Mo, Pettite, Posada, Abreu and Torre in the clubhouse?
Would Alex want to play for LaRussa, Valentine, Schowalter?
The decision he’s going to make is not just going to be about money, even though all of you will say it’s just about money. The Yankees with no Mo in the bullpen next year are a 2nd place team.
The Yankees with no Pettite and no free agent options equal to Pettite make the team even worse.
There are a lot of cards in play right now and I think they only fall into place when the manager issue is resolved.
My feeling is that Cashman is under orders to find out that if they end the Torre era officially what the ramifications are.
If it means Pettite is gone, Mo might go, Posada is gone and Arod might leave, I fully expect to see Joe Torre back on the bench.
It’s funny, but I think Torre can be saved by his players even after some of them failed him.
If Torre tells the Steinbrenner’s we lose Torre we most likely lose Pettite, Mo, Posada and Arod, I would think they are smart enough to keep the manager and get those players under contract.
If I were Arod, I would be cautious right now too. If Valentine or Schowalter, especially Buck who Arod butted heads with in Texas, end up in the Yankee dugout I think he’s a goner.
That said, I think he wants to be here, but I think he wants to know what the team is going to be like before locking into this team for the next 10 years.
Boras makes recommendations. That’s what agents do. In my line of work I have an agent and he makes recommendations to me all the time. Doesn’t mean I always listen to him. I usually take the advice and think it out for myself. There’s nothing shocking about this.
Boras is going to recommend the option that could bring the biggest payday. It’s up to Alex to chase the money or to plant some roots, make a fortune and end his career as a Yankee legend.
I think if Arod is happy with the direction of the team he’s staying. I might be wrong, but I think he likes everything that comes with being a Yankee. What other organization is front page news all over the world about a possible managerial change? This is the biggest stage in the world.
If Francona got fired tomorrow, it would hardly be written about on Drudge.
Alex can be the best player in baseball on the biggest stage in the game. He likes the attention. As long as he doesn’t disagree with the choice of manager and such, I think he’s staying.
It’s insane, but he could singlehandedly save Joe Torre’s job with a phone call. That’s power.
Some people say that Arod might not like Boras’s dog and pony show well it is this simple if he didnt then he would have a different agent. I am sure this was probably the conversation when Arod got that contract from Texas. Boras probably said I have $252m and Arod said I will take it. Then called back and said what team am I going to. Every GM knows that everything out of his mouth is crap. Arod will be back but this will take some time..basically once Boras is done talking.
A stat that was absolutely pathetic from the play offs was in the 3 losses the Yanks scored 8 runs, 6 of those runs were solo homeruns. That is why once again you can not have a lineup full of just homerun hitters because they swing for a grand slam every inning and come up empty in the big spots. The Yanks arent going to be able to fix the pitching for a couple of years, because there arent any good free agent pitchers for another 2 years.They have to hope they find another stud from the minors.
Peter –
It’s called timely hitting. These Yankees don’t have it, and these Yankees also currently revolve around A-Rod’s bat. Our pitching was certainly our strength during the Dynasty but there are also a lot of games that would have been lost were it not for late-game heroics (from Scott Brosius, Aaron Boone, Alfonso Soriano WHO WE TRADED FOR A-ROD, etc.) And Brosius was our 9-hitter, I’m willing to give him a pass on some weak overall postseason numbers. This is the cornerstone of our lineup we’re talking about in A-Rod.
I heard Tom Verducci from SI on the radio tonight talking about the Yanks. For all who think it is about offense and not starting pitching, do you know how many wins Yankees starting pitching have gotten since the 2004 postseason? He said the answer is 2. If Yankee starters can only get 2 wins in 4 postseasons, the Yankees have no shot at a WS.
My question is doesn’t it bug anybody that the #4 batter in this lineup in 4 games in total had only 6 runners on base, what happens if Jetes doesn’t hit into a DP, or Torre played a little smallball leading to the #4 batter, maybe one of those hits starts a rally gets an RBI.
Pat- Moose in Game 1 of the ’05 ALDS and Wang in Game 1 of last year’s ALDS, right? Are those the two wins?
some day a sports writer will look it up and realize that Alex Rodriguez’s playoff OPS (.844) is the same as Jeter’s (.846) and when that day happens the whole world will explode. And if you wanted to look it up using fan graphs you could actually see that Alex’s hits in the playoffs have been some 5 times as clutch as Jeter’s. But I think the world is safe since I doubt anyone from ESPN has even heard of sites that have weird things called “statistical evidence”.
i just looked this up on baseball-reference.com – soriano’s line in the playoffs was .225 with 49 striekouts in 160 chances. that’s really bad. do you remember the 2003 world series, when he sturkc out 9 times in 22 chances? i know he ahd the homer against seattle in 2001 and in game 7 off of schilling but overall he was not very good in playoff action. arod’s better so far.
J Dawg
He didn’t say what games it was but the number being only 2 blew me away. I knew the pitching had been bad but hearing that stat made me realize it’s been beyond bad.
1000 HR’s?
A-Rod is great but Boras should simmer down. What did he tell the SF Giants that Barry Zito would do?
The Yankees will be fine without A-Rod (and a ton of dollars they can spend elsewhere) but A-Rod will wear a scarlet NY on his chest for the rest of his career if he settles for this failure on the big stage.
Not only that wanna talk about players choking in the playoffs ?
Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez are being blamed to death in Chicago right now. I have a friend that lives in Chicago & he tells me Aramis and Alfonso are getting the brunt of the criticism over there.
P.S. Aaron Boone practiced for one pitch and all the sudden he’s clutch, Brosious hits off 2 pitchers in which the word chokes in big spots is known w/ Kim and Hoffman (the most overrated RP)
Absurd. Let him walk if that’s what he wants.
Just think, since A-Rod has been a major leaguer how many World Series champions have there been?
Of those Champions, how many was A-rod on?
Exactly. No one player is worth all that, regardless of how great they are. Not to mention when they don’t show up in the playoffs either.
you know what sucks? contract extentions. from now on dont expect any more amazing pitchers like sabathia popping up as free agents, because he is going to get traded and that team will extend him and game over or the twins will extend him and thats that, this is why the few that do hit the market now (zito) get paid huge bucks. its really just killing the game, and the yankees even more.
I affectionately remember the homers from Scotty and Boonie. But does this also mean that Kaz Matsui is now a great clutch hitter since he hit a grandslam in the NLDS this year? You are judging some of these guys based on one at bat. One at bat. Or two, in Scotty’s case I suppose.I agree with the idea of not having enough atbats to really use playoff stats for much. Do you not even remember how great Alex was in 9th innings this year? He hit like over .400 with close to 10 homers, and that’s under tremendous pressure. Once again though it’s not many atbats, but thats the point here we shouldn’t be judging base on low atbats.
Mark my words, If Alex stays a Yankee and they make the playoffs a lot for the next 8 years, Alex will eventually be the hero for some october games. This is why the 162 gameseason is used to judge players, it is far more reliable indicator of what kind of hitter they are. their skill doesn’t suddenyl vanish all of a sudden in october.
You should read firejoemorgan.com to see how wrong you are about Alex.
Scott Boras is like the George Steinbrenner of agents. He’s ruthless, aggressive, he goes for broke, and he is successful. Boras’s cutthroat style his netted outrageous deals for many of his clients. He’s well known as a world class BS-er, but he always finds the perfect way to sucker a GM into signing one of the players that he represents. He’s definitely not an angel, but he is an expert at what he does, ethical or not. And of course he recommends that A-Rod opts out. That’s his chance to get A-Rod that gigantic contract at over $30 million per season. Of course the key is whether A-Rod chooses to listen to him or he goes his own way.
Pete hit it right on the head. And to make things even more apparent for everybody, let me put it this way:
If the Yankees were down 6-1 (i.e. this year) instead of just 2-0 (i.e. in Game 5 of the 2001 World Series against Arizona) because the pitching couldn’t keep them in the game, Scott Brosius’ 2-run homer is meaningless and forgotten.
Meanwhile, look at this year’s Game 4. If the Yankee pitching is good, it’s a 3-2 game instead of a 6-2 game. A-Rod’s homerun in the 7th ties it at 3-3, forever marking him as a post-season hero/clutch/a true Yankee.
The point that the Yankees only score runs via the HR is nonsense… They hit 201 HR’s this yr. yes a lot but they have hit more the previous 6 yrs. and this yr. the yscored more runs. they also were like 5th in stolen bases and had a lot of sacrifices… The ydid not hit in the clutch in the playoffs but did during the regular season and had many baserunners in the Cleveland series. SHort series are anamolies, the regular season is a better indicator of the best teams..
people continuisly say the yankees offense is just boppers, they hit 201 HR’s and 1 guy had over 25% of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they have a huge luxury they have not had for at least 6 yrs but I think much longer, young guns… they have many good young arms…
The Arod issue really gets me.. People stick up for him but at some point it goes from being a business to obscene… again I bet today the Yankees will sign him to a 5 yr extension for $30 mill. so he is under contract for the next 8 yrs at about $225 mill about 21 mill paid by texas and $204 mill over 8 yrs paid for the Yanks.. He loves NY and all you fans so I guess he should take that offer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nah, I don’t understand business and I am foolish, he has to get every last crumb….If my #’s are accurate for his career at the age of 40 he would have made over $500 million dollars, really when is enough enough????????????
one thing about Boras never mentioned almost every one of his clients is not liked in baseball. jd drew, arod, and others….
maybe ZIto is liked because he is a harmless flake but most of Boras’s clients are not exactly loved thruout baseball…
just an observation…
Nobody pays attention to this: WHO IS GOING TO PAY A-ROD 330 MILLION OVER TEN YEARS? A-Rod is only “worth” as the market demands. Do people really think that the Angels would put up 33 million per year when they’re already paying big money to Vlad and Gary Matthews, Jr.?
Great example, Alvin.
Actually Ernie and Alvin, that is a terrible example. Who knows if it was a 3-2 game if A-Rod even hits the homer. You cant say it would have played out the same way. Good lord…
Why is everyone talking Rodriguez’s ALDS performance like he is why we lost to Cleveland. Jeter, Posada, Melky, and Matsui were all much worse than him. And forget that, all you have to do is look at Wang. No offense would overcome 5.2 IP with 12 earned runs over 2 starts in a best of 5.
Wang is the main reason we lost, not the offense.
Of course you can’t say it would play out that way. But the point is that better pitching gives the hitters a better chance to hit the dramatic shot when in fact all solo homeruns have the same face value, that being one run.
The Yankees are down 6-1 and Rodriguez hits a homer. And people are upset about it! Geez, I guess next time he should only hit a single because that is what Cairo would do.
If the pitching kept the game closer, then it is more lilely that a homerun helps the Yankees win and immortalizes whoever hit it, like with Tino or Brosius or Jeter. Can’t you see that?
Here’s a couple of tidbits from an AP story I got on my ISP’s homepage that I thought I’d share:
_”He could opt out tomorrow if he wanted to, but I haven’t discussed that with him,” Boras said. “All those decisions will be made when we sit down and talk.”_
So, it appears that Boras had opened his mouth today without having even talked to Alex yet.
And then a quote from Alex earlier in the year:
_When Rodriguez arrived at spring training, he was coy when asked about his contract.
“I understand I have an option, but I also understand that I want to be a New York Yankee,” he said, going on to add: “My goal is to go in with Derek and Mo and open the new stadium.”_
Yes, I know that this was said months ago, but I think it still carries some weight.
Sorry – I was trying to get the quotes in italics. I guess the underscores don’t work when they are followed by quptation marks.
The starting 3B for World Series Championship teams since 1980:
2006: Scott Rolen
2005: Joe Crede
2004: Bill Mueller
2003: Mike Lowell
2002: Troy Glaus
2001: Matt Williams
2000: Scott Brosius
1999: Brosius
1998: Brosius
1997: Bobby Bonilla
1996: Wade Boggs—–HALL OF FAMER
1995: Chipper Jones
1993: Ed Sprague
1992: Kelly Gruber
1991: Mike Pagliarulo
1990: Chris Sabo
1989: Carney Lansford
1988: Jeff Hamilton
1987: Gary Gaetti
1986: Ray Knight
1985: George Brett—–HALL OF FAMER
1984: Howard Johnson
1983: Todd Cruz
1982: Ken Oberkfell
1981: Ron Cey
1980: Mike Schmidt—–HALL OF FAMER
3 out of 26 starting 3B were Hall Of Famers, 2 were with one team their whole careers (Schmidt and Brett). All 3 guys lost World Series (Brett in ’80, Schmidt in ’83, Boggs in ’86). One guy beat the other (Schmidt def. Brett in ’80.) Everyone else isn’t even close to being a Hall Of Famer and that includes the non-H.O.F.er 3B on the losing teams.
that’s a good myth rant about 3B you got^^^ now name me the # 1 , 2 and 3 SP those guys played with.
..and the starting 3B for the World Series Championship teams of the 1970s:
1979: Bill Madlock
1978: Craig Nettles
1977: Nettles
1976: Pete Rose
1975: Rose
1974: Sal Bando
1973: Bando
1972: Bando
1971: Richie Hebner
1970: Brooks Robinson—–HALL OF FAMER
Only one Hall Of Famer.Madlock won four batting titles and had a nice career but is not a Hall Of Famer, not even a borderline H.O.F. Craig Nettles is not a H.O.F. although he posted impressive numbers for a 3B. Rose should be a H.O.F. but he effed up with gambling on baseball (I think he should be in the H.O.F.)
So there you go: FOUR World Championship teams since 1970 had Hall Of Fame starting 3B and ALL FOUR OF THEM WERE ON LOSING WORLD SERIES TEAMS (Brooks Robinson was on the 1971 Baltimore Orioles who lost the World Series to Pittsburgh.)
I can’t believe how fickle people are. Alex was the regular season MVP, and everyone loved him. Then he goes 0-6 with 2 walks in the first two games and everyone hates him. All it took was two games and everyone suddenly changed their opinion, yeah some true fans those people are. Then he follows that up with 4 hits and a homerun in the next two games, and people still hate him. Unbelievable.
So let’s see how this timeline goes:
Part 1 – MVP over 162 games. Awesome. Best hitter in baseball
Part 2 – 0-6 with two walks in the next 2 games.
Part 3 – 4 hits and a homerun in the next 2 games.
Anyone complaining about Alex’s performance is being totally unfair to the guy. Are you seriously evaluating his entire year on 2 games? I’m glad you aren’t a decision-maker for the Yankees, with that kind of irrational overreaction.
And to the people berating Alex, what do you have to say about Derek’s performance? Derek had a good 162 game season but was absolutely terrible in the ALDS, and those 3 GIDP were horribly unclutch. But he still showed me that over the 162 game season he was a very good baseball player, so logically I am very confident with him on my team next year. As you are. As you should be ith Alex Rodriguez as well. If you don’t judge Jeter on 4 bad games, then don’t judge Alex either based on 2 bad games.
33 million a year? F–k That. Who is going to pay that Boras? Besides the Yankees, no one is going over 24 million. The Red Sox could but why? They are winning without him and Lowell at 1o mil is good enough
*It’s unbelieveable, I mean literally unbelievable how Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada escape the criticism*
Eversince Paul O’neil took his final bow
2002 loss to Angels (Rd.1)
2003 loss to the Marlins(WS)(this the one year I won’t argue)
2004 loss to the Redsoxs(ALDS 1 game away from the WS)
2005 loss to the Angels (Rd.1)
2006 loss to the Tigers (Rd.1)
2007 loss to the Indians(Rd.1)
IDK how eversince O’neil retired Jeter and Posada have escaped the criticism.
I don’t think anybody here is hating on ARod. Even the newspapers have kept it shut for the most part. New Yorkers can be dumb, but most of us aren’t THAT dumb.
Anyway, about Jorge. I actually don’t mind giving him his 3-year deal, because he won’t be the catcher for all three years. His defense is mediocre anyway. He’ll catch in 2008, but in 09 and onwards we lose Giambi (can’t wait) and we can have Matsui and Posada share the DH role, with Posada catching sometimes and Matsui play LF sometimes. It actually works out pretty well, and we still keep Jorge’s bat. Even as a DH, you can bet that the guy will be working with pitchers, helping the new catcher, and generally being awesome.
Cashman in the summer said no talks if the opt out clause enacted. Now he says he will “recommend” no talks. Bottom line is Big Stein will write Alex a big check because he needs/wants this generations Reggie Jackson.
The bigger issue – how does a potential Torre dismissal map to Jorge, Mo,and Rivera’s deals? Do they all head to the Mets or retire?
LOL, may the force be with Brian Cashman. He’ll have a real tough job this summer with the team’s free agents.
Why is everybody concerned about who gets criticized? Does even matter? I think people are smart enough to know who showed up and who didn’t.
I doubt A-Rod comes back, IMO. I think he’ll listen to that voice in his head named Boras and opts out. The Yankees should make re-signing Molina a priority along with Rivera, Posada, and A-Rod. He has filled in well as a back-up and calls a really good game especially with the younger players.
First off can I just say Great Conversation everyone!
I love Alex and would like to see him back next year but even I have to admit I wish Boras would just SHUT UP for 5 mins (it’s getting old quickly). Also I would ‘recommend’ (lol sorry) that everyone not take every word Boras as said as the final answer. He has even said he hasn’t spoken to Alex yet. Also he is throwing out numbers in the billions….common no one is going to pay Alex billions to play for the next 12-13 years. Its just a ploy to see where the Yankees are going to set their limits AND to get the reactions of other teams so that Boras can measure the field now without having direct discussions about Alex.
As for Alex I don’t know if he has made up his mind, it sounds like he really wants to be here in NY. During the times when he was most emotional (guard let down) he has indicated that he wants to be here. But I think there were be other factors besides money…like someone mention who else is going to be back on the team. Those Alex is closest (except Johnny) may not be back Mo, Doug, Posada, Pettite, Joe and even Kevin Long, Pena and Bowa. If most of these guys aren’t back then there goes Alex’s support system in New York. Also the BIGGEST factor will be his family, he has to do what is in the best interest of them as well. Both Alex and the Yankees have some soul searching to do before the off season ‘games’ start so I doubt we’ll hear anything for the next couple of weeks.
Paul O’Neill is not coming back. Please quit living in the past, people. And who cares how much the Yankees have to pay to keep him. Spending money has never stopped the Yankees from going out and getting who they want/need. Paying him 30-35 mil per year is not going to stop them from going after other quality players. Relax and pray to your lucky stars that they do what it takes to get him back. If he leaves there will be a hole in the lineup that cannot be replaced.
I think A-Rod wants to stay in NY, but his agent’s job is to get him the best deal out there, which may or may not be with the Yankees. Whatever he does will certainly be big news and because of that the media circus will nauseate us with it until we hate everything about A-Rod! I’d like to think that Alex may have some interest in keeping Torre as manager, now that they have developed a “relationship”. His influence could have some bearing on Torre’s future, as well as some of the other players who are deciding whether they’ll come back or not. There certainly have been many public comments to that effect.
Let’s not forget the fact that Scott Boras works for A-Rod, not vice-versa. Ultimately it’s A-Rod’s decision. Boras will scratch and claw for every dime with his commission in mind but A-Rod will make a mistake if he let’s greed be the ruling factor. Boras is smart enough to know where he needs to draw the line. The day Boras thinks he can toy around with the Yankees and the big stage is the day his client list starts shrinking. For as long as he’s a player agent, he’ll need the Yankees.
Arod is going to look like a MERCENARY.It’s a word that totally describes Boras,motivated soley by a desire for monetary gain. If Arod goes elswhere for more money, we and all of baseball will see him for what he is,a mercenary or “hireling.” Supposededly he wants to stay here and win here.If it all comes down to money he’s a mercenary,and that will be his legacy “profit oriented.”
pete, you really shouldn’t report these stories. boras is playing the media right into his evil little web of greed. as long as arod doesn’t opt out, the yankees (a) don’t have to extend him–but unlikely and (b) if they extend him–likely–they will be bidding against themself. there is nothing worse for scott boras than having a market with only one bidder (see daisuke matsuzaka). the stronger an impression boras creates that arod will/should opt out, the more the yankees think they need to extend him at a ridiculous price. don’t feed the beast!!
One other factor regarding ARod is how he is a mentor to Cano and Cabrera. I think that’s important to him as well; not only has he finally become a member of a team, but a respected one at that.
Off topic for this thread, but in the Star Ledger this morning, it is being reported that not only did Tony LaRussa NOT say he wasn’t interested in managing the Yankees, but that he is actively lobbying for the position, telling the Yankees he would be willing to take a 1-year contract at a reduced salary to prove he could handle New York. It goes on to say that it is expected that Cashman, especially, will lobby harder against LaRussa, partly because he could fear that after next year, when his own contract comes up, LaRussa, if successful, could lobby for Walt Jocketty to become the next GM for the Yankees. So, the plot thickens. It still seems like the more favored candidates for the job are Mattingly and Girardi, however.
Who’s on 1st??
I don’t know?
3rd base!!
Not only does the team have to have money, they also have to have a hole at 3rd base. The cardinals gonna sign ARod and pay Scott Rolen to pinch hit.
Another question: could ARod return to shortstop?
So who are the teams who could find the cash and have a need to fill: Cubs, White Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Baltimore, and maybe the Angels (but they like Figgins & Cabrera).
Of those teams, perhaps only the Dodgers and WSox are contenders. Could it be that Chicago had ARod in mind when they resigned Ozzie Guillen, when everyone thought he would be fired ??
Wherever Walt Jockety goes Larussa would follow and DUNCAN,not the other way around. My friends in St louis,say Walt wasn’t happy that the owner Dewitt,who took some of walts power away,which lead to bad relations in the front office,created a hostile environment. Cashman saved his job this year with Joba, Phil, and Ian you betcha!!
Let the games begin. Cash: “We won’t negotiate if you opt out.” Under the terms of his $252 million Texas contract, A-Rod in effect receives two paychecks, one from Texas the other from the Yankees. Combined his salary is X = Y(ankee piece) + T(exas piece). If A-Rod opts out, that cancels Hick’s obligation to keep paying the Texas piece.
While the Yanks don’t begrudge A-Rod that Texas paycheck, the Yanks were never going to agree to pay the full price for A-Rod. While A-Rod is a great offensive weapon, the Texas money is a distortion of his value to the Yankees and thus his present value to the Yankees is closer to X = Y – T. That is the Yankee starting point and they will build from there and be very generous.
Boras: Based on projections from present revenues, A-Rod will generate up to $1 billion in regional sports TV network revenues for A-Rod’s team, because A-Rod can play productively for another 12 years, get the career hits and HR titles and cure cancer. We think a reasonable cut for A-Rod is 30% to 40% of that increased TV revenue. So, in round numbers, if you want A-Rod not to opt out you have to give him an extension at between $30 and $40 million per year.
Cashman counters: “When seeking post season success money spent on good pitching is a better investment than money spent on good hitting. We will generate up to $1 billion in additional regional sports TV revenue over the next ten years if we go to the playoffs each year and we are more likely to do that with good pitching. Thus, we think you are overvaluing A-Rod significantly. Thanks, but no thanks.”
And then Cash says: get me Mike Lamb or Mike Lowell to play 3d base, and let’s get Johan Santana to keep the run differential down. Since I’m not paying A-Rod, I can afford to trade for Santana and give him an extension.
Hey, Abbott!
Another consideration for other teams is, and what the problem was for Texas, if you pay such a large percentage of your salary budget for one player, what do you have left to pay the rest of the team? How do you pay the complementary players? Because ARod can’t win all the games himself. And we are all aware of the salary demands of front-line pitchers now. The Yankees can do it, but exactly how many other teams have not only the money to spend freely, but the ownership that’s willing to do it across the board?
LaRussa at a cut rate, for one year, may be an offer the front office can’t refuse.
It limits their downside risk.
And ESPN says LaRussa and The Boss are friends.
Tony has such an ego (doncha love it), you KNOW he wants to step on to the game’s BIGGEST stage and show off (IT’S SHOW TIME, FOLKS!!). And he speaks spanish, so he’ll milk that, for sure. I bet he’s standing in front of a mirror right now, practing his responses to Kim Jones’ Bag O’questions.
Ther’s no way on earth St louis could Ever afford Arod.You are talking about the midwest.They think these prices for player are outrageous.Besides Arod has already been a “Big Fish” in a small pond.Arod’s ego and materialism won’t allow him to be anywhere that not a grand stage.No more small markets for Arod.St louis loves loves Cano and Melky young and not too high priced yet.
murphydog –
Good points on the actual value of ARod’s current contract to the Yankees and how the starting points for him and Boras differ.
The only thing with the Santana piece is that currently acquiring Santana would necessitate a trade. Now, Cashman has always said that developing quality pitchers works 2 ways, to keep and use or to trade, and so far he’s opted to keep. Which pieces would he be willing to part with? Surely it’s going to take (at least) one quality arm and a quality position player to acquire Santana. And then, you have to work out an extension with him so that he does not become a free agent in 2009. You would have to assume that any other team who is interested in Santana would try to work out an extension as well, so if Santana is traded to a team other than the Yankees, you have to know that he will not be available again.
Frankly, ARod is in the position, whether intentional or not, of basically holding the Yankees hostage, at least to some extent. So much of what the Yankees will need to do is dependent upon whether ARod returns. So, while Mariano and Posada are what most of the fans want Cashman to address first, as a practical matter, it seems to shake out that the order of business has to be first name the new manager and then put an end to the ARod saga one way or the other.
If ARod opts out, the Yankees really have no choice but to move on without him, because ARod is not their only concern this off-season.
Derek Jeter is Michael Schumacher.
Alex Rodriguez is Ralf Schumacher.
If Rodriguez wants to sign an extension that preserves the Texas subsidy, then sign him. But if not, goodbye. In 2020 A Rod can pay admission to see Jeter’s plaque in Monument Park and wonder if the money you got is worth yours not being there. Seattle and Texas did pretty well using the money they saved on you to spend on other players.
I’m falling in LOVE
LaRussa is such a ham. Get this, when he signed on to the Cardinals he chose number 10 as his jersey number, cuz the Cards already had 9 Championships, and he wanted to skipper their tenth.
I checked, I’m sure Darrell Rasner would let Tony have #27
I love show-offs. You know that scene in “Butch Cassidy” where Paul Newman does bicycle tricks to impress Katharine Ross? Well, all New Yawkers are like that, to some extent. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve wiped-out on my rollerblades, trying to WOW the Grrls at the park.
murphydog
That is a great plan but unfortunately, whomever we go after for pitching rather than pay Alex has to actually be available to us. You realize that no team is going to trade any of their prime starters to us. Minnesota wont trade Santana, TB wont trade Kazmir, SD wont trade Peavy, Milwaukee wont trade Sheet and so on because there fan bases wouldnt accept that the trade occurred TO THE YANKEES. If any of those teams got a similar offer or maybe even a slightly inferior offer from any other team, especially the Red Sox, they would rather go with that trade than one with the Yankee b/c of the public relations fall out.
And please dont tell me that those teams dont care about who they are trading to. We offered a better package to Arz when they wanted to trade Schilling but they took a far inferior package from the Boston b/c they were worried about fan reaction to the Yanks (How is Brandon Lyon and Casey Fossum working out for Arizona by the way). A few years ago, Seattle traded Freddy Garcia to the White Sox and we offered a far better deal. The only time a team will trade with the Yankees is when the player they are trading makes it clear they only want to go to NY (Randy Johnson) or the team wants to dump payroll and the Yanks are the only team willing and able to take on the entire contract of the player being traded (Abreu)
We all better get use to the word Mercenary.We wiil see it in action through these negotiations.Arod’s a ” Hireling.”
“Show me the money,” is his theme!!! Watch
If some of you are going to go postal over every piece of negotiating strategy that hits the papers, you are going to have a heart attack before November 10, the opt out date.
He stays or he goes. Either way, the franchise will survive and life goes on.
No one player is bigger than this franchise. Not Jeter, Arod, Rivera, ANYBODY.
If Arod wants to stay in NY, he will be offered a contract MORE than fair to accomplish that goal.
If he wants “iconic” status, as Boras seems to desire, he will be off to another team.
Its that simple and it isn’t complicated.
Its much more interesting to see the politics at work in seeing who the new manager will be than yet another, “Let’s take Arod’s temperature to see if he’s coming back” watch.
Gotta drive in more than ONE run in 60 post-season AB’s (where he currently sits as a Yankee) to have the team turn over the keys to the franchise to him.
As I said in another post, this year is the first time in Arod’s life he was “one of the boys” on a team. He loved it. If he walks from that to chase the money, or “icon” status, he will regret it the rest of his life.
He’s in a great situation in NY. If he moves from it, you wish him well and move on in re-tooling the team.
The Yankees will neither go out of business or be out of the playoff hunt in 2008 if Arod leaves. Conversely, his staying doesn’t guarantee they will get out of the first round of the playoffs.
Its one guy. No one guy wins for a baseball team, regardless of the numbers he may put up in a season.
If that could happen, they would still be playing this year.
Tampa Yankee –
If that’s the case, then the Yankees really had better stock their farm systems, because due to revenue sharing, free agency is not the fallback position it used to be for them. With so many other teams viably in the bidding for the available free agents, the Yankees are not the first choice for many players (some just don’t like the spotlight, go figure).
No ARod. You must be kidding me. Who is going to hit all those homeruns for the Yanks when the game is already decided. Look, ARod is a fine player, but he isn’t worth the money. I think the Yanks could do just as well as they have with ARod, without him. He hasn’t made that championship difference. Use the money to get some younger hungry players. ARod is not hungry, he is too damn rich already.
I couldn’t stand Doug when he played for the red soxs, I thought he was a total ahole. Now I see a different side of him, and I love him! I want him to come back.
* “I love this place,” Mientkiewicz said. “The energy you feel when you walk through those doors, you can’t put it into words. … I really want to come back and I want a second chance at a World Championship here.”
Mientkiewicz hit .277 with five home runs and 24 RBIs in 72 games for New York, losing much of his season to a fractured wrist and concussion suffered in a June 2 game at Boston. He credits much of his affinity for the Yankees to Torre.
“My only regret is that I didn’t get here sooner,” Mientkiewicz said. “I would have probably been a little bit better player and a lot better man.”
Yankees.com
SJ44-
You cannot cite ARod’s post season stats without including what he did against Minnesota and Boston. I know, it’s always, “what have you done for me lately,” but frankly, the Yankees _as a team_ have disappeared the last three years. It is also worth noting that in the Angels series in 2005, ARod walked 6 times and had 2 hits. Clearly, the Angels were pitching around them.
I’m not disregarding that recently he’s had more than his share of troubles, but you have to be fair when giving the numbers. And you have to put it in the framework that the entire team has struggled in the playoffs in the last 2/3 tries (at least the Angels series went 5 games). I realize Alex is paid a whole lot more than anybody else.
Jennifer –
Wasn’t that great to read about Doug?
Dr Acula before you fall in to love(whic is scary) Larussa had the same amount of time as Torre on the Cards 12 yrs for one championship.Your a fact finder look up the cards record for last year,you won’t be so impressed.They backed in to post season barely. Tigers weren’t the same team that played us. My cardinal friends said the fans wanted LaRussa gone last year. When they won they couldn’t enjoy it because
their season was so bad and drainig, How they found out they clinched a berth in postseason was disturbing.AStros playing the braves.braves beat astros,cards didn’t have to play a makeup game.When at the cards game it flashed on the score board that the astros lost, some cards fans strated the “tomhawk” sign the local media said the fans were better than that it was crude.thst win didn’t stop the dislike for Larussa.
Do th Yankees want one
**that should read — “pitching around HIM” not pitching around them.
A Tampa Yankee in King George’s Court:
Minny is shopping Santana now. After next year he’s a free agent and if they keep him for ’08, when he leaves as a free agent they get two draft picks in compensation who won’t be ready to help the big club right away. If you are Minny and you know you are going to lose Santana anyway, what’s better for a small market (cheap) team than acquiring two young, high-upside pitchers who are making league minimum. Hughes and Kennedy or even Joba and Kennedy might be worth acquiring the stabilizing force of a solid, 28 year old lefty ace with a record of proven results. I think his somewhat poor numbers (for him) this year is his mental state on his future and his belief that Minny quit the race too soon by trading their second baseman. Johann will produce wherever he goes.
I think that the Yanks and A-Rod will hammer out a deal.
The simple fact is that A-Rod can make more money being great in New York than he can anywhere else. Not just in terms of salary, which will be in scientific notation no matter where he goes, but the Yankee “brand” will benefit A-Rod and create more money-making opportunities for the rest of his life.
Just think about the marketing you can do around A-Rod returning the HR title to the franchise that made it mean something.
On the negative side, accepting failure in New York will put a dark cloud on his legacy. No amount of Boras’ spin will get around it.
I think both sides understand this and the tough part of the negotiation is going to be dividing up the benefits the sides expect. Boras will project the value as huge and want half, the Yankees will lowball it and offer a share.
If the Yankees set a deadline, I just hope they have the stones to live by it. The Texas Ranger money is a huge factor in this equation. It might drive Steinbrenner crazy but they have to mean what they say.
I would love to see Arod, Posada, Pettitte and MO all come out and say they are leaving if Torre is fired.
Arod would get a great deal of praise from Yankees fans that hate him for that, and maybe all the haters would cut him some slack.
Given the options out there, Torre needs to stay.
Doreen
You are correct, we absolutely need to restock our farm system because we arent going to be fleecing anymore teams in trades, in fact we probably wont be acquiring anyone of significance through trade for a while.
murphydog
It is not a question of whether Minnesota is willing to trade Santana at all, it is a question of whether they are willing to trade Santana to the YANKEES. The Twins wont trade Johan for anything other than the Yanks absolute best prospects b/c they fear what their fan base will say seeing Santana in pinstripes. Basically, Minnesota will ask for Joba and Hughes, and it is win/win for them. If we accept, they get 2 young guys under control for 6 years for one soon to be FA. If we decline then they dont have to worry about the bad fan reaction.
The problem is, they wont fairly negotiate with us the same way they will negotiate with other teams. If the Red Sox comes along, you can bet Minnesota wont even bother asking for Bucholtz or Ellsbury or Pedroia. Because they know those guys are off limits and they will settle for something less than that b/c the stigma attached to trading with Boston is non existent compared to the stigma attached to trading with Yankees.
I would be very angry if they trade away Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy.
Tampa Yankee- Nonsense.
Minnesota isn’t going to trade Santana to other teams for peanuts. If he goes to Boston, of course they’ll get some big names in return. Nor will they ask for both Joba and Hughes. There’s not a single player on the planet who is worth both of them to Cashman, and everybody knows it.
Why would anyone in their right mind trade Hughes and Joba for Santana? Hughes and Joba could win 15 games each next season. Not unreasonable. That’s 30 wins. Johan will not give us 30 wins. He will also cost $20m. Hughes and Joba cost about $700k combined. Gee, I make that trade…..
Kennedy? No way, bro. All he did this year at every level was dominate. Untouchable. Sure, he does not throw 100 mph. Either does / did Maddux and he is going to the HOF. I would rather have Kennedy who can throw 90-92 and change speeds, pitches, etc. vs. a 1 dimensional flame thrower such as Kyle. Velocity does not equal good pitcher.
they are all phonies
Just root for the laundry
Jeter’s future wife
October 10th, 2007 at 12:23 am
“his wife is an a—hole”
LOL. If your screen-name was anything more substantial than wishful thinking or a sad delusion – it seems to me that poor Jeter would suffer from the exact same problem, Ms. drama queen.
Is Tony LaRussa really making public statements about lobbying to manage the Yankees, before they’ve officially announced that Torre won’t be back? If so, that’s shockingly disrespectful. Nearly as bad to leak one’s interest (as in, “Sources close to LaRussa say..”). If any of this is true, he’s lost my vote.. oh wait, I don’t get a vote.
catya-
thanks for the info – good stuff.