Tony La Russa? Say it isn’t so
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- October
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The Daily News says Tony La Russa is a viable candidate to replace Joe Torre. The Post says he’s not interested.
Tony La Russa?
Talking about spitting in the face of Don Mattingly.
Meanwhile, it’s hard to imagine a worse candidate than La Russa, an overly sensitive control freak and steroids apologist who thinks boorish Bobby Knight is good company. By all accounts, he lost the clubhouse in St. Louis this season.
This is a guy who yelled at a reporter from the St. Louis paper and nearly got into a physical confrontation with him because of a poem the paper published making fun of the Cubs.
Not his team, the Cubs. A poem. Sure, bring him to New York. We only have eight papers and everybody writes nice things all the time.
If the idea is to start over, La Russa would be an excellent choice. Because half the players will be lining up to looking to start over someplace else. So would the GM.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
La Russa might not be a bad choice…
He’ll be 21-29 in May, then get fired and We’ll have Joe back for another second half run
When big positions become available big names are sure to float around. I can’t imagine he is being considered for more than 5 minutes.
I’d have to guess its Mattingly, Girardi, or maybe Valentine
On the other hand, I can see Torre heading to St. Louis very quickly
Hopefully Torre will be back. I couldn’t imagine playing a season without torre. With all do respect for Girardi and Mattingly, I just don’t think they will come close to what
Torre did for the yankees. We’ll see what happens. Well, try to have a good day. I’m off to work.
Go Yankees in 2008!
If what Mattingly said the other day has any weight, it’s going to be him.
G-d, I do not want to see Torre go.
Not like this.
Hard to be optimistic when the only manager you’ve ever known has been cast aside…
To all Torre detractors, mark my words, be careful what you wish for.
La Russa is certainly no upgrade on Torre.
Frankly, I don’t know a name out there that is. And how exactly do the Yankees think they’re going to sign A Rod, and Posada, and Mo, and without knowing who the manager is?
At least LaRussa knows how to manage a bullpen. Although I really dont want him because he would never be able to get along with even half the egos in the clubhouse. Look what happened between LaRussa and Rolen.
You know, just food for thought here, but, who thought when Joe Torre got the the managerial post for the Yankees that he’d have such a successful run?
So, bottom-line, who’s the say Mattingly couldn’t be good? I mean, for sure, that is.
LaRussa – no way. His name will be bandied about because he is available, but I don’t see it. Remember, didn’t he also have an “incident” during spring training last year?
I just hope it gets settled sooner rather than later, more for the sake of getting players signed up. But I do understand it’s not a decision to make quickly. Except I have to think this conversation has been going on behind the scenes for awhile.
Joe was the best with the players and Zim was the best for game stategy. We haven’t won in the post season since Zim left. George should (or have one of his sons!) crawl on hands and knees to get Zim back and then keep Joe for another short term contract and see what happens. The owner says he wants to win it all, but is he too proud to admit he was wrong?
i feel like don mattingly to joe torre is like alan trammell to jim leyland. I love mattingly, but he has never been a manager. If tony larussa manages the yankees, i will take a vow of solitude and not follow baseball for how many years he will manages.
Another thing, to spit out the yankee record in the past 17 post season games is pathetic. Ask the royals, o’s, devil rays, white soxs, twins, blue jays, a’s, rangers, mariners, even the angles, ask them how their past 17 games in the post season went.
I cant believe we have reached the point where our managers future depends on bugs. If those bugs wouldnt have shown up, would they still have fired Torre. Pathetic
I so do not want that to happen. There is something about LaRussa that makes my skin crawl and seeing him as Yankee manager would be a tough thing to take.
Why do the yankees own mattingly anything? Why should a team with a 200 million dollar payroll need to have a manager learning on the job?
What about Buck Martinez?
From the previous thread
Larry Bowa anyone?
Joey Bagadonuts
October 9th, 2007 at 9:36 am
As much as I’ve always admired Mattingly, I’m not keen on him to manage this team either. One name I haven’t heard thrown out there yet is Larry Bowa, so allow me….
Too many years of having to be the uber team in baseball have been catching up to these guys. They’ve internalized not just the pride of the Yankees, but the pressure of carrying on the legacy and traditon. It clearly doesn’t work anymore. Quality starts, timely hitting, clutch play and a little bit of luck used to be OUR forumula, but it’s all in the other dugout anymore.
The Yankees always have enough resources to bludgeon their way thru the regular season somehow, someway – burning the pen, furiously signing and discarding starters, FA signings, trades/moves at the deadline etc, but no spark in October.
The teams that win are often ( as someone pointed out here recently) one year wonders with a bunch of guys having career years, everything falling into place while other teams in their divisions take a step back to retool, rebuild whatever.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind if the Yankees as an organiztion kinda stepped back and reexamined how they’ve been going about things.
I used to love it when Cashman bagged some big name or two every winter to add to the team, but after Sheff, Johnson, Jason, Roger, Vasquez, Pavano et al….
Rob Neyer put it best: the 800-pound gorilla in the room: Steinbrenner’s fading intellect.
Bringing LaRussa and Dave Duncan here is the BEST thing the yankees can do for the future of their franchise.
Pete
If Joe isn’t back, please let the first phone call you make upon hearing the news be to Don Zimmer to get his reaction. Now that would make for an entertaining read.
Adam, money talks and you know what walks.
The wildcard in all this is from japan. Trey Hillman has announced he is returning from a successful stint over with the Ham Fighters. The guy has managed in the Yankee system for 10 years with success, been in the bigs in Japan winning a series and is a young fresh face. It would surprise me if we dont here more about this.
With the way the organization and Cashman is looking to the farm and a new generation, this seems like a good fit. He isnt however a big name and that could work against him. It would be an ambitious move by Cash but looking forward it makes sense to get in a young guy who can grow with the new generation like torre did from 96 onwards.
Apart from this, I do get the feel that 09 at the new stadium will be the yankees year. An overhaul looks unlikely this year with Moose, Giambi, Pavano, Farns all locked in for 08. With a full year under the belts of joba, phil and IPK and the possiblity of free agents spending, the more i think 05=06=07=08.
My 2 cents
If a lawyer like LaRuusa is such an apologist for steroids, I think players will flock to play for him.
Joe should stay.
_Joe was the best with the players and Zim was the best for game stategy [sic]. We haven’t won in the post season since Zim left._
This has always been such a BS argument. Hey, I love Zimmer too, but he’s not the reason why the Yanks haven’t gone to the World Series since he left.
It’s not a coincidence that the starting pitching has suffered tremendously during that span and is the real reason why this team hasn’t been back to the World Series.
When your starters go 7 innings 90 times in 162 games, they significantly lessen the strain on both the pen and the offense.
This Tom Verducci mailbag from a few weeks back addresses this very topic and explains it perfectly. Fix the rotation and the Yanks will be playing longer in October.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....bag/1.html
Joey Bagadonuts….
Larry Bowa would be the best choice, hopefully they are at least considering him.
Bowa as manager might also entice A-rod to stay, I believe they like one another
I think it’s important to keep noting that NY is NOT firing Torre. His contract has expired. If he doesn’t come back, it will be because he wasn’t offered a new contract. He’s not getting a pink slip here.
Of course, that doesn’t mean the Tampa brass don’t have the opportunity to mistreat Joe in the process, but still. And I really hope the whole situation is dealt with well, because the uglier it is, the more likely it is that Jorge and/or Mo leave with Joe.
I think the wisdom of promoting Mattingly depends a lot on who comes in as bench coach. If you bring Zim back (please, please let them bring Zim back!), Mattingly probably does pretty well. I think Donnie would do pretty well managing all the players, with Zim providing the strategy, and he’d be another teacher for Mattingly.
Mattingly will eventually be the Yanks manager. That’s why he was brought on as hitting coach way back when. He’s being groomed, and it’s only a matter of time. At this point, I think you either bring in a manager that can guide NY through a transitional period, or you promote Donnie now and bring in a really great bench coach to support him.
Promoting Donnie now, with a mediocre coaching staff in what could be a considerable rebuilding year, is only setting him up for failure. That’s no situation for a first-time manager, no matter how much potential he had.
I think Mattingly will eventually make a terrific NY manager. The guy is a Yankee through and through, and he will command all the respect from the players that Torre did. But I think he still needs some time to learn all the ins and outs of the in-game managing biz. With a great bench coach behind him, he could probably learn that stuff “on the job,” so to speak. Otherwise, they’ll need a new manager for a few years, and I have no idea who that could be. LaRussa is a truly horrible idea, though.
Okay, we’ve established LaRussa has a bad relationship with the media, which includes Pete. That hasn’t stopped him from being moderately successful over the years. And hey, how’s Duncan handle the media hordes? (Don’t forget, it’s a two-fer.) And is the idea that half the players, HALF, will be lining up to look for work elsewhere based on anything at all? Just wondering.
As for Mattingly, I revere him as much as the next guy. But have been given no indication whatsoever that he can manage a major league baseball club.
La Russa and Tino had a bad relationship — I’m sure that La Russa coming over would make Jete’s day.
How can you possibly think of going to class extraordinare to that train wreck of a man? The manager needs to have his own life under control if he’s going to get his players to respect him.
_Why do the yankees own mattingly anything? Why should a team with a 200 million dollar payroll need to have a manager learning on the job?_
All managers have to learn on the job at the beginning of their careers. It kinda goes with the territory.
Just like rookies are rookies until their sophomore season.
Well, if Tony LaRussa comes along, then we need to count the number of public confrontations that he will have with his players. Tony’s not afraid to throw somebody else under the bus to save his dignity. He was at odds with Scott Rolen last year, Juan Encarnacion this year, and Albert Pujols in that whole silly All-Star game debacle. If he becomes the manager, I can’t do nothing about it, but I can always yell one word- “Darn!!”
No One has had their team not show up in October more than Larusso and bobby cox and all the the jackals like randy Levine (who couldnt make his little league team want is Dave Duncan and before him Mazzone
I don’t know Pete. Yes, LaRussa will make your job (and all the beat writers) tougher.
But, and I say this will all due respect, choosing the next manager is not about making the folks on the beat happy. Its about picking the right guy for the job.
LaRussa brings Dave Duncan with him. The best pitching coach in baseball working with all the young arms on this team? That’s something I’d sign up for tomorrow.
Everything went wrong for the Cardinals this year. It was just a bad, bad year. He also won a WS with an 83 win team. Let’s not forget that.
LaRussa has his issues. No question about that. However, let’s not get too crazy about ripping him. The guy is a great manager and, from an in game prospective, runs circles around Joe Torre.
The big question, and its important is, how would he handle NY? That may be the thing that keeps him from getting the gig.
That said, let’s not sully the guys credentials and the steroid stuff is a bit of a cheap shot. Joe Torre did manage a team that had Jason Giambi, Jason Grimsley, Gary Sheffield and Randy Johnson on it. It wasn’t exactly a steroid free room in the Bronx.
No place is baseball was for a very long time. Hard to rip on LaRussa in that regard.
If Joe is really gonr and they are serious about grooming Mattingly, I like the Bowa idea. George gets the more fiery manager he wants, Bowa is a good bridge from the current team to a new one, Mattingly can stay as bench coach and get experience and Bowa is less of a question mark to some of the free agents that have decisions to make.
tony larussa is a drunk. He was charged with a DUI, one of his players died of drunk driving, another of his players had a substance abuse problem. Im not saying that Larussa gave these guys drugs and boozes, but when your leader is acting as foolishly, something has to happen. I rather root for the red soxs than have tonny la russa manage the yankees
Does the Yankee Management really think they could sell tickets to any Yankee games if the team manager was Tony LaRussa?
I’d like the next manager to be Girardi. Why replace Torre with LaRussa? One old guy for another? Get the young blood in there, players and manager. Get a little spark on this team. It was brutal watching that game last night, the Yanks were never really in it.
of course sj wants larussa, pathetic
SJ’s right. There may be questions to be answered about LaRussa — but managerial competence isn’t one of them. (And the steroids crack is just that.)
But it may be moot. The Post sez he’s not interested.
SJ44- LaRussa is certainly a good manager, but I think the “would he fit in NY” question is the big one.
The guy just seems too explosive to do well. He would have been great for the Yanks 20 or 30 years ago, but now it would just be unpleasant.
I also think the in-game stuff isn’t the biggest thing right now. I think that could be solved by promoting Mattingly and bringing in a good bench coach. The manager’s job, especially in NY, is more about managing the players, the media, the whole circus. Of course, it’d be great to bring in a great in-game guy who could also do the circus stuff, but if you can’t have both, I think an explosive circus guy is worse than a mediocre in-game guy.
What a terrible way to start my day . . .
Guys please, LaRussa is not much of an option. This sounds like more what the media would like to see. And everyone is taking it like gospel.
what about Lee Mazzilli?
Yeah lets consider the source on the Larussa thing, they said Joe was GONE last year.
No matter what we do, we can’t settle for a mediocre in-game manager. I’m not fond of the Maitre d’ Theory of baseball management. This franchise needs someone to give it direction, and that will require a strong hand, someone who can stand up to the Tampa mob.
As much as I respect what Torre has done for the Yankees over the years, including these last few, I do wonder if isn’t time for a change. Steinbrenner is as despicable as usual — there’s no reason Torre should be made to leave like this. But as much as the players love Torre, it might be time to try to do things a new way. Torre has simply been with these guys too long. I doubt, in the end, whether his presence or absence would make a big difference in the number of wins in the regular or post season, but I’d be interested to have a new guy in there who might look at his personnel a little differently. Should Cano really be batting seventh? Should Hughes have been slotted to start game three? (Not that starting him would have changed things.)
I don’t believe that A-Rod, Mo, and Jorge will really leave if he’s not here. If the Yankees make the best offer — and there’s no reason to think that they won’t — it’s not like they’ll be playing for Torre wherever they move on to anyway, unless S.L decides to take on 50 plus million in salary next year. So why would those guys leave? If I’m wrong though, and Pete would obviously know this better than any of us can, then the Yankees would be crazy not to bring Torre back. Cashman’s clearly not crazy. Steinbrenner, not so clear.
By the way, what did the fans do after the game was over? I would hope that there was a big chant for Torre, but if anything happened, I missed it, since I clicked off the TV moment Posada swung and missed.
“This franchise needs someone to give it direction, and that will require a strong hand, someone who can stand up to the Tampa mob.”
who *can* it be?
We would also get treated to longer 6th-8th innings if Tony becomes the manager. He obsesses with having lefty on lefty matchups and righty on righty matchups. He always goes through the parade of relievers in the middle innings. There’s times when you need to adjust and be able to change that strategy on the fly, and he refuses to do it. Sometimes Tony just makes strange off-the-wall decisions, just to try to prove how much of a genius that he is. I know that it was just an exhibition, but look at the All-Star game. With the bases loaded, down by one run, he lets Aaron Rowand bat and weakly fly out to right to end the game. It might not be so bad, but he had this guy on his bench named ALBERT PUJOLS. Surely to goodness Tony wouldn’t do something so idiotic during a regular season or playoff game. Would he or wouldn’t he? I don’t know.
I don’t want LaRussa.
I just don’t like the guy.
As I said last night and will continue to be saying, Torre isn’t the problem. The problem is the pitching folks. The Yankees won all of those titles because they had the best pitching staff in the game. You could bring in any manager with a pitching staff that includes Cone,Pettite,Clemens,Key, etc. and they would win. Pitching wins ballgames plain and simple.
Madden said Joe was gone last year because he was gone. Until Cashman and/or Swindell talked him out of it. Pete can address this, but Madden is thought to have very good sources in the Steinbrenner camp.
At the moment, I’d hire Girardi. Then see if you can pry Duncan away from LaRussa.
Mo on being a free agent: “They had their chance and they
didn’t do anything with it. They had their opportunities.”
Posada on Torre: “Joe Torre is the best manager in baseball.
It’s not his fault.”
Arod on Torre: “I have the utmost respect for that man in
there.”
Jeter on Torre: “Every season, you’re asking whether or
not it’s his best year. By far, this is probably his
best year.”
Torre on us: “These fans are very special. They’re certainly
very special. I mean, you can feel their heartbeat.”
Joe is probably the only manager alive who would have had the patience to have pulled off the incredible turnaround we had this year. That said, it’s been a wonderfull run, but after 12 years & 3 first round flameouts in a row it’s time to part ways.
Watching Joe Giardi on some of the games this year on TV convinced me he would be a great hire & I’m hoping for him.
Never in my life have I witnessed clutch hitting & great at bats as consistently as the Indians displayed (or poor clutch pitching?). At one point they were 17 for 34 with 2 out & RISP, vs. 1 for 10 for Yankees. Unheard of! Wedge must be a great manager as you could see how his hitters all were so focused & disciplined & happy to cut down their swings & spray the ball around & spoil 2 strike pitches, in marked contrast to our guys all trying to hit one out.
We are at a huge crossroads & next 2 months will be fascinating to watch unfold.
Fans were holding up signs regarding Joe. They started a Joe Torre chant and gave him a standing o when he went to put Mo in. They showed their appreciation.
I’d love to see Girardi or Larussa pitching ballgames. That’s the only way they’d make a measurable difference on the team. When you get 54 quality starts from your starters you aren’t going to win many ballgames.
Well I won’t be too suprised to see Mo leave after that comment. Mo has been treated so well by this team, I don’t know what to say if that is how he wants to end it.
this whole thing is a song and dance and in the end it will be Joe Girardi.
i am not huge Torre fan, but i do think it’s kindof crappy that he is losing his job for losing this series. this series was NOT his fault.
they lost because their best starting pitcher gave them nothing for 2 games. that’s why they lost. not because of the bugs, or Torre, its because they had 4 games and in 3 of them their starters combined for about 7 innings.
i never would have thought i’d be saying this, but Wang cost the Yankees their season. i love the guy, and he is one of my favorite players, but there is no way to sugarcoat it. he was as awful as he has ever been and he sure picked the worst possible time to turn into a pumpkin.
belial ,
.
You’re ugly and your mother dresses you funny.
.
Sincerely,
.
Everyone who reads this blog
.
P.S. We hope you BoSux get killed in the ALCS (surprised ?)
Fans turned on Torre because they sit back look at baseball and think that somehow they are smarter and know more about the game than the professionals running the team. Not just Torre but the entire coaching staff.
Somehow armchair quarterbacks and bloggers have more insight into the yankees than the organization does.
The idea that there is some distinction between Torre being “not rehired” vs. “fired” is ridiculous and playing with words. Its just rhetoric. It you know a guy wants to come back and his contract is up and you don’t bring him back, you are de facto firing him. To deny that is just word games and legaleese. More fans trying to act smarter than they are. Vain pride.
One day soon people will be yearning for the Torre days. Just like this year everyone loved ARod after everyone wanted to trade him last year after the playoffs.
so there
To all the Torre haters:
Be careful what you wish for.
Joe had his flaws, but he still guided the team to the playoffs EVERY season he managed.
Only in New York would that not be enough.
It’s the personnel, stupid. Fix the roster, especially the pitching. Without that, no mananger will be good enough.
We talk about bringing Dave Duncan to New York, maybe it’s time to bring another Cardinal here. If the Yankees don’t resign Posada, I think that Yadier Molina may be a pretty good trade option. It probably wouldn’t cost any top prospects. Yadier is possibly the best defensive catcher in the league, no one has an arm like his. He doesn’t knock the cover off of the ball at the plate, but he does have a flair for the dramatic. When the Cardinals beat the Mets to reach the World Series last year, Molina hit the go-ahead home run off of Aaron Heilman in Game 7 of the NLCS to send the Cardinals to the Series. I just think that Yadier would be a good fit here. That’s just my opinion, and that, a dollar and change will get you a cup of coffee.
Larussa shouldn’t be considered. That would be a new low for the Yankees. Just hire Girardi. He’s the most logical choice since he has worked with young players and was successful.
mo was making less than gil meche, barry zito and almost as much as carl pavano…has been treated well, but he has never been paid that well
Why can’t the Yanks just forget about Larussa and hire Dave Duncan as manager?
J-Dawg I doubt the Cardinals would even consider trading Yadier. He’s young and he’ll only get better.
bring in johan santana, bring in two solid middle relief pitchers and bring out the same lineup, with the same manager and we will win the world series.
As Bush The First said, “Nah gonna hap’n.”
If it is Giradri, Ill feel bad for Donny Baseball..
But I think Giradri is a good choice, with all the young players this team has.
Raymagnetic- Maybe it is a pipedream on my part. It’s just amazing how Yadier can change the entire complexion of a game. Just about everybody in the NL is afraid to run on him!
The truth is:
-If the next guy comes in and wins, the Torre-haters will be vindicated and say it was Torre’s fault they didn’t advance to the WS since 2003.
-If the next guy comes in and loses, the media will crow about how the Yankees are missing Torre’s deft touch and ability to handle personalities.
Either way, I’m not sure Larussa is such a good fit because of his polarizing personality. Talk of his coming in kind of reminds me of the Johnny Keane hiring in 1964 or ‘65 (?). Different is not always better.
Being the guy to replace a legend is not always desirable and takes a special type of person with a special background. As solid of a baseball guy I think Girardi is, Donnie Baseball might be the best choice to appease the fans, to appease the players (who still respect their “Captain,” and to appease management). Maybe Girardi would be a solid bench coach to Mattingly as the manager?
Larussa will not manage the Yanks during the games he would be great but his PR issues would be too much. I hope it is Girardi. He is smart, focused, good with young players, and was Yankee and knows what he is getting into.
They will have Jorge and Mariano back. Mariano will go into the HOF with his Yankee jacket. Arod is his choice, be a greedy pic and adios, be some what reasonable nd he is a Yankee. They have plenty of young guys and if Cashman is allowed to do his thing they will continue the rbuild.
Look out for the Blue Jays next yr. with there pitching and a healthy Wells…
Try to get rid of Giambi(1 yr left on contract) and Kyle…..There will be 10 new plyers on the team next yr. that is a ton…
the only for sure guys to be back are; jeter, cano, cabrera, damon, joba, hughes, kennedy, wang(man he stunk in the plyoffs), duncan, betemit,and that is it… they have 10 FA’s or potential FA’s…
alot of change is coming and that is good..
By the way, LaRussa is an attorney, albeit a non-practicing one.
I rest my case.
I know that Torre is only signed to manage until the end of this year, but didn’t he also signed a ‘lifetime’ contract with the Yankees? (Much like Clemens with the Astros or Nolan Ryan with the Rangers, however as an advisor/consultant)
What happens to that if he gets canned and wants to manage elsewhere?
If Joe has to go, La Russa is on the “OH HELL NO” list. If they’re looking externally, I like Phil Garner.
_bring in johan santana, bring in two solid middle relief pitchers and bring out the same lineup, with the same manager and we will win the world series._
If you want Johan Santana, expect to give up Hughes and/or Joba in exchange.
The Twins aren’t going to give him away.
Wait until next season when they don’t have to give up anyone to get him.
I know of all these names popping up: Mattingly, Giradi, Valentine, La Russa, but has anyone thought of this guy? Larry Bowa? He did pretty good with those sub par teams over in Philly, and he would bring alot of fire to the manager position. Also he could bring a National League style to the team, which could help our offense be better. I will miss, Joe, it will be an adjustment.
Pete, an edit button is needed.
…”Captain”), and to appease management. Maybe Girardi would be a solid bench coach to Mattingly as the manager?
He could instruct the younger players and provide valuable guidance…but I’m not sure Girardi would subjugate his managerial desires no matter how much he respects Mattingly.
Raymagnetic –
I agree with you that the starting pitching needs to be better so that the bullpen can be better and used more effectively.
That being said, it’s not so simple because the Yankees DO win regular season games, and lots of them. I don’t think there’s a simple answer here, because although the pitching has not been good post-season, neither has the offense. This explosive offense. To me, there has to be a way to make they synergy of the lineup work better. To a man, every Yankees hitter always talks about how the lineup is so packed that no one has to be “the man.” And yet — and yet, every time they’re having trouble with a pitcher, each of them tries to be “the man.” They are a team full of A-type personalities, and when push comes to shove, that’s what turns up — the take charge, “I have to do it,” mentality. Maybe there are too many guys who can hit a homerun, and when the chips are down, instead of doing what they know they should do (make contact, go the other way, etc.), their instincts override their judgment. I don’t think anything that coaches or managers can say can change this. So, maybe it is time to eat Giambi’s contract, get a couple of guys whose instinct it is is to simply get on base because they know they probably are not going to be able to hit a homerun. (Why I think they should keep Abreu, by the way, and why I think they should not be anxious to see Cano and Cabrera try to hit more homeruns.)
“mo was making less than gil meche, barry zito and almost as much as carl pavano…has been treated well, but he has never been paid that well”
really? so the highest paid relief pitcher of all time is not paid well? more money per inning than probably anyone in history?
why are we comparing him to starters?
do not cry for Mariano and his wallet the Yanks have paid him a ton of money look it up… Becuase Zito got a ridiculous contract does that mean the Yankees have to over pay all there players to the same level of stupidity????
COntracts are about timing not what people are worth..
Mariano is 38 and still very good but he is human to sign him to more then 3 yrs( a stretch) would be financial suicide.. FOr a description or example of financial suicide look at Jason Giambi’s contract or Pavano or Zito or JD Drew or Julio Lugo or about 60% of the free agents signed last yr……
Jorge and Mariano are old and high risk’s treat them right give them nice 2 or 3 yr offers and that is it.. If they want to be YANKEES it will happen if they do not they can chase the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
The Yanks are many things including Steiiny being a bully but not treating there core nicely is not one of there problems……………..
The Cardinals went up in flames this year.
LaRussa’s major innovation this year to turn the season around?
He decided to move the pitcher up to the 8th slot in the line up and drop down one of the position players.
How would that play in New York? What would people on this board be blogging then?
Your team is an embarrassment and you bat the pitcher 8th? That’s like nero fiddling while rome burns.
The point of that kind of move is for the manager to tell the public/ press, “Look at how smart I am.”
Ask Pujols what he thinks of LaRussa?
Pete,
Quit reading the News and Post. It kills brain cells, trust me.
I don’t want Tony LaRussa within 100 feet of this team. I want Mattingly or Girardi. Now that we’re here, I want Bernie Williams coaching 1st base and Dave Eiland as pitching coach. I want Paul O’Fn’Neill as bench coach. I also want Mo, Andy, Posada, Bobby, and A-Rod back. I’ll settle for having the first three back.
Does anyone else think the “loyalty” stuff being thrown around with the possible free agents will be a moot point if Girardi or Mattingly are hired?
I agree with the point made about the Indians playing with great clutch hitting and the high degree of success with risp. Lets hope that unlike Detroit last year that the top of their mountain is not the NY Yankees and they at least play some close facsmile of what we have seen against you know who.
I just wonder if Tony Pena will get any consideration. He led Kansas City to a winning record, won AL Manager of the Year, but then burned out and he also had a front office who wasn’t interested in making the team better. That wouldn’t be a problem in New York. Just a thought.
Bill Madden said LaRussa…same guy who said Piniella was definitely being hired. He’s a Yankees shill.
I want no part of LaRussa..EVER. Or Bobby Valentine.
Mattingly or Girardi (preferably the latter).
You know, it’s becoming a pretty hollow argument to say “Torre guided the Yankees to the post-season 12 years in a row, that should be enough.”
If he gets credit for that, he gets credit for 3 consecutive first-round oustings, too. And you’re fooling yourself if you think 12 Octobers would be enough for any other team. If any other team got that accustomed to success, they’d be just as frustrated with the past few years as NY.
At this point, the Yankees need change. The recipe of the past decade just isn’t working. They haven’t won a WS since 2000, haven’t been since 2003. And it’s not enough to say that 12 post-season appearances would be enough for any other team. No, it wouldn’t.
The Yankees are clearly good. They are too good on paper to be this awful in the first round 3 years in a row. Something is wrong. Maybe it’s not Torre’s fault, but something isn’t working, and at this point it probably requires a pretty big change to fix things. At this point, Joe basically has to take the hit for the whole team.
By now, fixing the roster wouldn’t be good enough. The roster this year put up the best record in baseball for the last 2/3 of the season. They put up the best offensive numbers since Murderers Row. And yet they looked awful these last 4 games. The offense didn’t hit, and the starting pitching was awful. You can’t even blame it on a shallow bullpen- it was their ace that lost two of the games for them.
Something is wrong with the Yankees. It’s not just the roster, and it’s not just Torre. There are a lot of problems, and replacing Torre is just the most significant way to indicate a fundamental change in direction for the team, which is what they need.
It is hard for me to get caught up in some of these rumors floating around i.e. LaRussa until we at least know the outcome of Joe Torre. These reporters in NY are so full of it with some of the stories they present as news it’s a wonder anyone here believes any of it’s just too early.
Pete
I think your take on the managerial situation is dead on. I hope they at least have the class to let Joe leave gracefully. My concern is Cashman’s situation. Do you think that his clout has been diminished and that the Tampa office will now be able to reassert themselves?
When the heat of the moment settles down, I can’t see anyone bolting from the team if they go with any of the internal choices–Mattingly/Girardi/Bowa/Pena (my personal first choice beng Girardi). Assuming that ARod doesn’t extend the 10 day post-world series deadline, it may be that his decision may be required before we know who is managing the team.
A manager who doesn’t court favor with the press? I’ll take it. And boo hoo for that poet/reporter. If it only means LaRussa would make the lives of the nabobs from the press difficult, I’d sign up for it.
There is no need to replace Joe Torre as manager of the Yankees.
If the Yankees were going to make that rash decision based on the performance of players than I cannot think of a worse manager than Tony LaRussa.
He is arrogant, cannot handle the media, throws his players under the bus daily. IMHO, it’s the perfect recipe for disaster in what really is a promising young clubhouse.
Can you imagine a Tony LaRussa press conference after last night’s game where he calls out Derek Jeter for grounding into 3 double plays in pivotal spots during the series.
Don’t think he won’t do it. He took on the best player on his team and arguably the best player in the game, over a snub in the All-Star Game…
Can you belive it…THE ALL-STAR GAME?!?!!?
This is Torre’s team, nobody can handle the clubhouse, the media and the egos of these millionaires better than Torre.
It will be a true mistake if the Yankees don’t bring him back him walk away.
The Yankees need a new approach…
These teams have put up huge offensive numbers, but they ahve been so streaky as a team..
And they have gotten cold as the playoffs start.
Something in the way they prepare needs to change so they become more consistent as a team..
There is no need to replace Joe Torre as manager of the Yankees.
If the Yankees were going to make that rash and emotional decision, then I cannot think of a worse manager than Tony LaRussa to replace him with.
He is arrogant, cannot handle the media, throws his players under the bus daily. IMHO, it’s the perfect recipe for disaster.
Can you imagine a Tony LaRussa press conference after last night’s game where he calls out Derek Jeter for grounding into 3 double plays in pivotal spots during the series.
Don’t think he won’t do it. He took on the best player on his team and arguably the best player in the game, over a snub in the All-Star Game…
Can you belive it…THE ALL-STAR GAME?!?!!?
This is Torre’s team, nobody can handle the clubhouse, the media and the egos of these millionaires better than Torre.
It will be a true mistake if the Yankees don’t bring him back.
The Yankees inability to hit in the post-season has nothing to do with the manager.
Really, honestly. What would have changed offensively for this team if LaRussa was the manager this year, or last year, or in 05, or in 04.
Please, the idea that a new manager would change the Yankees postseason performance is really naive. It’s a simplistic and baseless assumption.
I do not think Larussa would come nor is he a good choice because of his PR issues not his managing ability. The Cardinals were decimated by injuries this yr. the Yanks had no injuries compared to St. Louis and Oakland.. Larussa is a good manager he is not a hack, but I think it should be Girardi and my 2nd choice is Mattingly..
the only guys to play decent in the playoffs were; cano, damon, mariano, hughes, pettitte, and Joba(the fly issue was a disgrace), duncan, and Cabrera(decent).
Jeter, jorge, arod, matsui, giambi, abreu, were all bad performers and Wang was an out and out disaster…They hit like 8 solo HR’s and got 2 big hits; damo s hr and the cano single to right. 2 big hits in 4 games, cleveland got about 12 big hits…………….
winning the world series is not a birth right and damn hard to do all you teenagers should understand it now and when it happens again enjoy it………
I’ve got a bad feeling here… The way they let Petitte go to Houston because they were chasing Kevin “Freaking” Brown, the Sheffield signing (great trade though!) then this season’s desperation for Clemens (Couldn’t Farns give us a 6-6 record?)
If LaRussa is the choice then perhaps it’s time to go into suspended animation until the brass comes out of this micromanaging spell.
You’re never supposed to make important decisions when you’re happy, angry, or sad; just hope they wait for cooler heads to prevail.
Mind you, I’d like to see ARod opt out and be embarrassed into signing for *less* then he currently earns.
I have family in in St Louis,they are jumping for joy that La Russawill be gone. He is very much into mind games.
the players and cashman will hate the atmosphere he brings to new york.He doesn’t unite players. He plays favorites.
Write the New York media will have a field on him.Also he’s
a lush.
Be very sad Yankee fan if Big Stein goes that way.
The same folks whining about changing managers would have been the same people asking the following 12 years ago:
“How could the Yankees fire Buck Showalter for a guy who is 100 games UNDER .500″?
If there was a blog in 1995, Yankee fans would have gone NUTS over that decision.
My point? NOBODY knows what’s going to happen when the next guy takes over. So, all the doom and gloom predictions, or belief that only one guy can manage this team, can’t be taken seriously by anybody.
Doreen,
I think the Yankees not hitting in this series has been vastly overblown. The only game where they didn’t hit or get on base was the Carmona game. In game 1 they had 11 baserunners, last night they had 15 baserunners. Who knows how the games turn out if Wang pitches better.
The Yankees maybe didn’t get timely hits this series but they did get their hits and did get on base. In a five game series the statistics can often be miscontrued because of the shortness of the series. If the only thing you knew was that the Yankees had 26 baserunners in games 1 and 3 would you believe they had lost both games?
SJ is correct in his post.. Torre was laughed about 12 years ago.. Again I like Torre and do not necessarily think they should get rid of him but I understand if they do.If the Yanks give the job to giradi or mattingly I think it would be a good thing…
I think torre does make in game bonehead moves but no more then most managers..
bring back jorge, mariano, trade kyle, dump giambi or damon(please Giambi) and whatever happens with Arod or Abreu is fine.
they will continue to infuse young guys, if abreu is gone sign Rowand and move Melky to right and they will be a good team.. OF of damon, rowand, and melky… If arod goeas get Lowell or Crede(high risk) and there offense will be down but D, pen, and starting will be up and they will be a very good team…
If Arod and ABreu go they save a ton of $ and yes there offense will not score 968 runs but how did that team do????
Its funny reading some of this stuff. Nothing that went wrong with the Yankees is Joe Torre’s fault.
Yet, EVERYTHING that went wrong in St. Louis is Tony LaRussa’s fault.
Anybody else have difficulties understanding the logic of those two positions?
Jonathan- it’s really not simplistic to say that Torre has to take the hit for the Yanks performance the past 3 years.
Something’s obviously wrong. Something big- a team this good shouldn’t fold this badly 3 years in a row. The offense stopped, the pitching stopped, the whole thing just stopped. It might not be all Torre’s fault, but he’s gotta take some of the blame.
Like I’ve said, I think at this point Torre needs to go simply as a symbol of moving the Yankees in a new direction. Getting into October isn’t enough if you’re just going to fold in the first round. Things have to change, and unfortunately or fortunately, changing managers is the biggest way to signify that change.
The Yankees were 2-34 with runners on base in this series. Think about that for a moment.
2-34. The lack of hitting wasn’t overblown. They didn’t hit a lick, solo HR’s not withstanding.
Been that way for the Yankees since Game 4 of ‘04.
The reason? No idea but, the lack of hitting is a joke for a team with this much offensive firepower.
I actually like Bobby Valentine. He might be a darkhorse, if anything. I like Girardi or Tony Pena. I’m not feelin’ Don Mattingly. Just a gut feeling.
SJ44-
I brought up the same point earlier. You can’t predict what will happen – not in an at-bat, an inning, a game, a season, a career. But I do think in the area of managerial material, you need to look at personality and make-up of a person as part of your assessment of their abilities, specific to your team.
I’ll agree that LaRussa has enjoyed success as a manager. But simply based on what information we’ve garnered over the years about how he deals with players, media, etc., and given the extent to which he’d be called upon to use those types of managements skills, we can come to an opinion about what we think a guy like LaRussa would bring to the table.
Of course, it’s not up to the fans. And if the Yankees for whatever reason decide LaRussa’s the guy (and I’m not convinced this is anything more than sending out a “floater”), the fact is, ultimately the fans will still watch the games, on t.v. and at the Stadium, no matter what is said right now.
It’s just a distraction from the facts of the day to toss around the pros and cons of the various candidates.
You are right, there are other managers who could take over this team and do a good job. The team is too talented for anyone to really mess it up. My point is there is noboby who can do it BETTER than Torre.
With all things being equal, why replace a guy who has the respect of the players, is loved by the media and, when you think about it objectively, is one of the greatest managers in franchise history?
I’ll say it again, change for the sake of change is a bad policy.
SJ44 as I said they didn’t get timely hits, but they did get hits. The Indians were extremely successful with runners on base. Both stats are aberrations. Stats are often skewed in short series. The Yankees lost this series because Wang pitched poorly in both of his games. If Wang pitches to his regular season stats the Yankees probably win both of his games.
Now if you want to see a team that didn’t hit at all say hello to the Angels.
LaRussa would be the Yankees’ very own Larry Brown. Thank you very much, but I already had to suffer with the Knicks’ version and don’t want to do it with the Yankees.
It is time to make a change in leadership.
The team has had the same result for the past three years. Mostly due to pitching failures. There is hope for the future in the young arms. Maybe a new leader can shake things up and be more willing to try new things. I don’t know if Donnie is the answer. He is a great guy but is he a dynamic leader?
I am intrigued with the idea of bringing Bobby V. back to New York (and no, Donna I am not “on the crack pipe” for saying this). Doesn’t this sound like a Steinbrenner type move?
A smart manager with some good results elsewhere, hungry to win a ring. Bobby has matured and is itching to get back to MLB even though he is now a demi-god in Japan. I think he would only leave there for the Yanks or the Dodgers job.
What do you all think?
Raymagnetic –
It is TIMELY hitting that is pertinent, though. And at crucial times, the _instinctive_ mindset of most of this lineup is to crush the ball — basically, try and hit a 5-run homerun.
But yes, Wang’s ineffectively certainly did not help matters, did it?
Darn — ineffectiveNESS — is what I thought I typed!
Tony LaRussa is the THIRD winningist coach in ALL of baseball. From here in St. Louis, I get a kick out of all you guys saying Tony shouldn’t even be considered? C’Mon. Remove yourselves from the forest for a moment. All due respect to the Yankees fans, but, though we’d hate to see him go… Tony, with your payroll, would bring it home. It’s all he’s ever wanted. $200 mil/yr. You might get Jockety too, and Duncan! Wake up and see the future POSSIBILITIES… New York’s a great, great city, and there are allot of us St. Louisan’s that would root Tony on on of loyalty and appreciation for all he’s done here!
Greetings from the home of the TEN time World Champions!
It’s not that LaRussa is responsible for all St. Louis’s problems.
It’s that LaRussa is not a good match with New York City and this team.
Besides, if we are talking postseason performance and the lack of leadership, is LaRussa’s post-season resume really so stellar that he should be given the responsibilty of leading this team in the postseason.
The Yanks should waive Giambi. Nobody is going to trade for him. He’ll probably end up on the bench because Matsui will need to DH because of his knees.
If they Yankees don’t keep Damon, they should trade for Josh Hamilton and Ryan Freel. I think they’ll be available along with Dunn because of the emergence of Joey Votto. But I like Hamilton and Freel.
Sign Kerry Wood and Mark Prior. Both should get incentive laden deals. They should give Koji Uehara, too.
I wouldn’t trade for Santana. No need to pay twice.
Hopefully, some of our TJ relievers will emerge during spring for the Yankees bullpen.
Here’S a bone head move that is classic LaRussa.the cardinal and braves were in the nlcd 2000.Larussa starts a youngng pitcher named ANkiel,who had lost his control. Akiel threw to the fans behind the catcher. In that game he brings in a pinch hitter that was hurt and batting @.178,Mark Macguire.
There was a time his favorite”Juice box”would’ve come through, you guessed it,not this time.Everyone fans and including the sports media called him out on that BONE HEAD move.No pitcher feared mark “at this time.”
I was there in 2004 when st louis had the best record in baseball as they boasted,and couldn’t win a game from beantown in the ws. La RUSSA’s press conference was brutal,he was near tears and mumbling. LA Russa is not for New YORK
nothing could be worse. a sanctimonious *****le.
how about frank robinson or don baylor? fire with substance.
It’s fun to speculate and discuss possible candidates but really, it’s anyone’s guess as to how any of them will do. A LaRussa might realize he’s got to work with the NY media. Mattingly might show everyone that he’s picked up more managerial acumen than we think he has. After all, who would’ve though Joe Torre would be the manager for one championship let alone four in five years back in November of 95?
I think you keep Joe for a few more years, let him mold Donnie and thats that. I would rather have Joe Giardi than LaRussa
Seriously how come nobody has mentioned mazzilli? He knows NY, knows the players, has patience but also some fire. He did a decent job with the crappy baltimore team too. Its an option I would say at the least.
I would like to know more about Trey Hillman though. Still my personal feelings is that Torre should stay.
hillman is a sleeper – forgot about him. he’s a yankee product, widely respected, kind of a showalter without the sanctimony (word of the day) and rule book. has fire in the belly. could be a good choice. probably cool with jeter, which i can’t imagine laruss. prob with mattingly is that all he’s done is lose – not running “brother in law of the year” awards. girardi may have too much spin… all this jorge posada stuff, they haven’t won with him, those were girardi years. any catchers in the system molina could mentor?? or tradeables? farnesworth demonstrated that he’s closer material.
) could be a very interesting off season if one plays the positions by the numbers and looks at chemistry.
“I wouldn’t trade for Santana. No need to pay twice.”
Right, because there’s no chance of the Red Sox trading for him and signing him before he hits free agency. If you can trade for the best pitcher on the planet, you do it, end of story.
“Right, because there’s no chance of the Red Sox trading for him and signing him before he hits free agency. If you can trade for the best pitcher on the planet, you do it, end of story.”
Not if it weakens your team because you give up 2-3 pitchers in return. I like Santana as much as anybody, but I’m tired of these hired guns coming in to win championships. Santana is gonna need to be paid $25 million dollars, and if he doesn’t win 20 games a year and the yankees lose in the first or second round, all we get to hear about is how we tried to buy success again and failed. Screw that, I rather go to battle with Joba, Hughes and any other young hungry gun there is.
no more free agent pitchers – all you’re buying is a plane ticket to dr jobe or andrews. they’re all shot by the time they’ve arrived. dump 120 mil into scouting and development and we’ll be aflush in jobbas within three years.
Joe, for any faults, has worked well with Cash, except maybe for the bullpen issues. Can we assume Cash is staying and continuing to run baseball operations? If yes, then I think the first job of the next manager, assuming it’s not Torre, will be working well with Cash. Can La Russa do that? Bobby V?
Bobby V and LaRussa to me are about the same: charismatic (in an odd, wearing-a-disguise-in-the-dugout kind of way), strong-willed managers like Joe with all the diplomacy, patience, people skills and tact of Billy Martin. Why in heaven’s name would Cashman or the Steinbrenner Group (George, Hank or Hal and whoever else speaks for the owner) want Billy Martin back? Oops, maybe I just answered my own question…
Seriously, who knows… but does Girardi really want to risk following Joe? It’s too much like jumping in Joe’s grave too fast. And what if Girardi doesn’t do as well? If Girardi is smart, he’ll let someone else follow Joe and wait that guy out. Hillman is a logical choice as he is experienced at several levels, is a Yankee product and would presumably work well with Cash. Mattingly seems too passive, and Mazzilli is a Joe Clone, and IMO, neither would be the symbol of change they are likely looking for if management decides not to re-up Torre.
hillman is a logical choice and maybe “the” choice. the only rationale for not bringing torre back is “new era”. to bring in a retread like larussa, or valentine for that matter, or even mattingly, makes no sense. the only thing torre lacks is fire in the belly to win it all, and that’s human, not a criticism. to quote my dad, “how much cake can you eat?” he’s been there and done it many times over. it’s impossible to be hungry when you’ve eaten. he also has to be tired, emotionally. one cannot imagine the abuse, day to day, and it takes its toll. my guess, ten years ago, he pulls them off the field in cleveland. he may have simply been too depleated to do it now. a young guy, clean record, that everyone can swallow. torre can sign on as a mentor with dignity, and in many respects take on the emeritus role he’s already stepped into.