Free-agent Rivera wants Torre back
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Mariano Rivera stopped by the clubhouse today and, classy as always, spent some time with the media masses.
Rivera said he wanted Joe Torre to return and that having a new manager would impact his decision whether to return to the Yankees. How much?
“It would be a big (percentage),” he said.
Rivera remains peeved that the Yankees were unwilling to extend him in spring training. “The Yankees had an opportunity and they did nothing with it,” he said.
But he also said he would listen to what the team had to offer before he entered free agency.
Here is the audio. You’ll get a good sense of what kind of guy Mo is when you listen:
After he got done with the interview, Mo jokingly told us to visit his restaurant in New Rochelle and spend some money. “I don’t have a job,” he said.
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Chad Jennings
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Mo has spoken, the Yankees will listen. Joe will return.
Pete, I feel the tide changing a bit. Here’s a thought brought up on WFAN this morning:
Arod signs with the Yankees at $27-30mm right now, if the Yankees give Joe a new deal.
Sure would change his image around NY….
What do you think?
I visited his restaurant. Good food. Expensive…but good.
Well, that’s that. Sign Torre up.
My God…I had a dream last night (no kidding) that Mariano Rivera had to end his career pitching in a Devil Rays uniform. Couple that with the bit of dust that must have gotten into my eye yesterday at the office whilst thinking about Joe Torre (OK, I was crying) this is all a bit much.
But man, if Mariano retires in anything but the Yankee pinstripes, it will be a TRAVESTY. Plus, he can obviously still pitch.
I’d love Joe to return but I dont think it matters what the players say they will still hire someone else. It will be worth it just to bring him back for another year just to get our FA’s on contract before they all leave. If they decide not to bring Joe back I’d hire Girardi as our new manager and keep Mattingly as a bench coach to give him another year or three to learn the job. But thats me. I’d be happy with Torre, Girardi or Mattingly as our manager. I dont want La Russa.
My Offseason Wish List:
-Trade Mussina for pen arm(s)
-Convince Pettitte to return
-Resign Mo
-Resign Posada
-Try to resign Arod w/out being ridiculous
-Get rid of Farnsworth, whatever it takes-trade, cut, crate and ship overseas
-Take Abreu’s option
-Try to trade Damon or Matsui (I’d prefer Damon) for pen arm(s)
-Resign Molina (I view as a great backup)
-Resign Vizcaino (Solid arm considering the FA’s)
-Trade Igawa
I think A-Rod ends up here with the Cubs in Chicago. I think it’s the best bet, reunites him with Lou and he can have that “savior” cred like Schilling if the team ends up winning while he’s here. Just a hunch. I wish he’d stay in NY but with Boras’ stance, I think it’s pretty certain he opts out.
I think it’s 50-50 concerning Mo.
And, I do think bringing Joe back is a no-brainer. Playoffs every year, appearances in 6 of the last 12 WS. Sign me up for that possibility any day. Also, no successor would come close to doing a fair imitation of his job, so what’s the point?
It was a great season.
Seriously, I hope the Yankees will listen to what all the free-agent players, like Mo, have to say regarding the factors in having them all return. And I hope they all include Mr. Torre in their statements. Way to go Mo!!
You forgot one more, trade Giambi
And I’d trade Matsui before Damon.
We Miss Paulie, that would not change A-rod’s image. Suppose the Yanks get knocked out the 3 years in the first round of the playoffs, do you what everyone will say about A-rod.
if Arod ends up in the cubs, i will say the cubs will be the team to beat in the NL
There’s no way you trade Damon. I’d keep Damon in left for sure. DH Matsui and trade or take some or all of Giambi’s contract. He needs to go…NOW!
Until the ownership is resolved, I don’t think you can pencil A-rod in as a Cubbie. Afterall who will be the new owners and will they be willing, when will the new owners take over the cubs and most importantly are the new owners going to offer A-rod the contract he is looking for
Aren’t the Cubs up for sale? I don’t see an ownership on the way out siging a player like Arod for a huge LTD.
No team will offer Rivera the money the Yankees will after the season he had. He’ll be back with or without Torre.
this from buster olney: Friends of Jorge Posada say Torre’s status is going to be a factor in his decision whether to re-sign with the Yankees; remember, Posada could sign a multi-year deal with the Mets, who need a catcher.
I hope MO is just the first of a long line of free agent Yankees that state their STRONG desire to have Joe back or they will walk. Make the Boss eat his words.
Olney also said he would be surprised if Mo and Posada sign anywhere else but the Yankees.
If you listen to ESPN guys, they will change their stories by the hour to keep the news “fresh”. Its how they are trained in Bristol.
Joe Torre will be the first person to tell these players to make decisions that are best for themselves and their families.
He did the same when Andy Pettitte told him he was going to Houston.
Players and teams use whatever leverage they can during contract negotiations. That’s how the game is played.
There is no news until they sign. Until then, its all hot air, whether is from Scott Boras discussing Arod, or any player discussing their futures.
Mo, Jorge and A-Rod have now all said that Torre’s return might be a factor in their return. Will the Yanks believe them or will they just throw money at them to ease the pain?
Joe will not be back. There’s no way they are going to sign him to a new deal. But they have to find a way to keep Mo. They CANNOT let this man go.
Scott Boras is bad for baseball. Would love to have him negotiate my contract but bad for baseball.
Where does he think he is getting 10yrs at 33 mil? Even with Yankee revenue sharing and luxury tax, no team is going to spend that kind of money….Cuban and Moreno are not that foolish.
so we should disregard buster olney who worked for the new york times and wrote a book about the yankees and we should disregard peter gammons who was elected in the HOF as a writer and listen to you, someone who comments on a board?
These arent quotes from John Kruk or Steve Phillips.
If I was Mo and Jorge, I’d be doing what they are doing.
Its all part of negotiations.
In the end, the contracts the Yankees offer, not Joe Torre’s status, will determine whether or not they will be back.
Its about money with players. Sure, they may want Torre back. However, neither guy, if offered a below market contract in return for Torre coming back, would say, “yes” to that.
This is the final bite of the contractual apple for both Rivera and Posada. Can’t let emotion get in the way of that, and they won’t.
If the Yankees offer both guys the right deals, both will be back, regardless of who manages the team.
So Mariano has said that Torre coming back would weigh in his decision to re-sign w/ the Yanks. I’m pretty sure Posada & Pettitte would say close to the same thing. All things considered, this could probably be expected from at least the core guys.
Perhaps A-Rod would consider it too … it sounds like they got along well this year.
So … what are the chances Steinbrenner would go so far as to re-sign Torre, thus expediting the re-signing of some of his core players, then fire Torre in the midst of the team’s first big slump next year?
Posada just stunk up the ALDS, he should not be the one giving ultimatums. Mo can be replaced with Chamberlin. Do not let the door hit you on the way out.
Let them play for the Mets, they will get what they deserve.
wonder if anyone in the front office is listening to any of this stuff or do they even care?
here’s the deal: we Yankees fans are so spoiled during this Torre era, that even we as fans bear the same swagger as the players do and for good reason. would you rather have a season like we just had (roller coaster and in the playoffs) with Torre or having a losing season for a few years without him. everyone is a baseball expert, but unless you know the players, their faults,their personalities and how to keep them working together as a team, I think it’s hard to judge any manager.
Why are you so fixated at what Olney has to say?
He said in one hour that, “friends of Posada could see him playing for the Mets”. You think those are “reliable sources”?
The next hour, he says he would be surprised if Pettitte, Posada and Rivera were not with the Yankees next year.
So, which Olney statement do you want to believe?
They want to keep this story going. That’s what people in the media do. They want to keep people listening, especially when there is no news to report.
You want to cite Olney’s credentials, great. It doesn’t make what he says gospel. Especially since he says something different each day.
Klapisch, Madden, Pete, a bunch of people have opinions on the future. Its just that right now, opinions. They aren’t facts.
Im am sick and tired of having the prisoners run the asylum. Like iv said before noone is bigger than the team. Posada and Rivera should not make public comments about if Joe goes they go. They are trying to candcuff the Yankees by making these ultimatums. Torre has been great for most of the 12 years hes been here, but he has had the last 4 years end really bad and had 3 prior times to make up for it. Its time to give someone else a chance to inject some energy into the veterans and younsters on this squad. It wont be the first time a manager has been let go and it wont be the last. This is not a weekend at a freinds barbque,its a business. And if the job is to win World Series than we have been failing as of late. Just like when they demoted Nieves and everyone on the team was dissapointed,saying how nice he was in the clubhouse. The players are too confortable and Cashman seems to realize that and therefore bringing young hungry guys to compete has made the vets earn their spot.
If those two guys stick with their demands,as much as I like both I say let them walk.
jk – what team do you root for? you have to be kidding me
BTW, migames, I am not saying, “listen to me”.
I am saying, don’t absorb every piece of non-news and treating as news.
When a guy gives you a different opinion on ESPN every hour, that isn’t “news”. Its opinion. There is a difference.
I understand the logic behind waiting to see what kind of a seaon Posada had befor extending him last year. However, it was just foolish to not exten Mo in the spring. I don’t blame him for being pissed.
nate,
I am a Yankee fan. I do not need to hear high priced ball players whine about who the manager will be. Will these guys take a pay cut to play for Torre? I doubt it. They need to shut their yaps.
No Joe, no Mo. No MoJo.
the thought of me saying ‘good ridance’ to mo and posada is completely silly. sure – we can use the money elsewhere, but no way can we easily replace those two guys.
Kevin,
If Im not mistaken Mo had arm problems in the second half of last year. So you cant blame Cashman for being catious and making sure it wasnt something that would linger back this season.
sj, im 100% with you on ESPN and how the wind blows and they change their tone. Although, its not everyone, Rob Neyer is the smartest man on the planet. I read Buster’s book and thought it was a well researched, well written book. And Peter Gammon was offering his opinion, which is based on almost 40 years of following the game. I dont listen to steve phillips, joe morgan or any other hack they put out there. Buster tends to be very consistent in what he reports and what he says. You gotta know who to trust.
It would be an absolute shock if A-Rod went to the Cubs or ANY National League team. With the records he’s about to assault, he’ll need and appreciate the DH as he approaches his mid 30’s and forward.
The only realistic suiter that will pay the money to sign him is the Angels and even they’re a stretch.
jk – gotcha.
i think no matter what, this is going to be a messy few months. i’m not looking forward to it
Gary,
Very good point. Not to mention he’s a historian of the game.
oh my god.. .the players want Torre back………….
So what .. Mariano and Jorge are good guys, they love torre, thay also know the Yanks have treated Torre well and love the Yanks.. They will be Yankees next year regardless of what happens with Torre.
The only one who is willing to use anything for more $$$$ is Arod and his loser agent Boras…………..
As Mike and the Maddog said they heard a guy who said if Arod publicly said I will be back for 10 yrs at $30 mill if you sign Torre for 3 yrs. then it would be done and all you people petrified for change will be appeased.
IS THERE ANY CHANCE IN THE WORLD POOR OLD AROD would do something like that?
No friggin chance they want every last $$$..No rationalizers for Arod Call me a fool but making $500 mill over his career for a baseball player to me is enough. If you want to call me a communist so be it.
gary, it worked for Barry Bonds
Yeah, Mo is being a bully by threatening this. He’s trying to force the team into making a decision he wants them to make, and it’s selfish and egotistical of him. However, he’s Mariano [censored] Rivera. Who’s going to tell him to take a hike?
This team NEEDS Mo, and he knows it.
Who cares who the players want?
I bet a lot of them would have said bring Buck back in 95
Joe has done a great job but I think we need a new start.
Don’t forget that A-Rod at around $33mil/yr for 10 years is really only about $30mil/yr for the Yanks (”only”?) thanks to what Texas still owes on his contract.
We get an automatic “10% discount” as a head start … what a bargain.
I would go for it. If he wants more than 10 years, make them team options with incentives.
Is it worth signing two top pitchers for the same price rather than extending A-Rod? Sure … if there’s another pitcher just as good and as young as Santana, and if they both would sign with the Yanks, and if they could both actually BE top of the rotation guys for close to 10 years, go ahead.
But considering what bang-for-the-buck Kennedy, Chamberlain, Hughes & Wang have to offer for the next 5-10 years, it may still be cheaper to go with A-Rod.
Whether by trade or FA signing, a team could acquire one solid pitcher for the price of (just for example) Abreu’s contract and another for the price of Moose’s. Pettitte is still worth his price, although if he retires any time in the next 5 years hopefully someone can do an adequate job of filling his shoes.
Anyways, after Wang, Hughes & Kennedy, the team could fill out other two spots in the rotation as Moose & Petitte move on, at monetarily the same or less than the value of one of those $30mil A-Rod years.
Can we all relax here?
Like Mo is going anyplace. Geez.
This is a team with no reliable bullpen arms after Mo.
Rivera is coming back regardless of whether Joe Torre does. The Yankees will sign him easily. Keep in mind, he’s coming off the worst season of his career, so the Yankees won’t have to throw ridiculous money at him like they will with Posada.
It’s real simple.
If the Yanks offer comparable money then Posada, Mo, A-Rod will all be in pinstripes.
If they lowball or don’t offer comparable money they won’t be here.
Case closed.
WangFan88
October 10th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Rivera is coming back regardless of whether Joe Torre does. The Yankees will sign him easily. Keep in mind, he’s coming off the worst season of his career, so the Yankees won’t have to throw ridiculous money at him like they will with Posada.
Worst season of his career???
Yeah. Check the numbers. He was terrible!
What a moron.
“Posada just stunk up the ALDS, he should not be the one giving ultimatums. Mo can be replaced with Chamberlin. Do not let the door hit you on the way out.
Let them play for the Mets, they will get what they deserve.”
Then why don’t you go root for the Mets.
I think Joe will be back. Why else would they take so long to announce what’s going to happen. If he wasn’t going to be offered a new contract wouldn’t they have announced it already? I can’t see any reason why they would leave him blowing in the wind if they weren’t planning on offering him an extension.
I put no value into what Steinbrenner says, if he’s truly suffering from Alzheimers he really doesn’t know what’s going on half of the time and he surely isn’t running day to day activities for the Yankees.
I have no problem with what is doing.
All I am saying is, its not going to matter in the end.
If the Yankees give him the best deal, he will re-sign with the Yankees.
Let’s say Don Mattingly is the new manager. Do you not think he will reach out to the available FA’s (Mo, Arod, Jorge, etc.) and tell him his plans for the team?
Its not like these guys will be making decisions in a vacuum.
Its all negotiations and its all posturing and I don’t have a single problem with it.
The Yankees could have saved all this by giving Mo a new deal in the spring. They decided not to and now Mo has leverage. I say, good for him. Use it, and make the best deal you can possibly make for yourself.
In the end, I believe it will all work out. I would be very, very surprised if Mo, Andy and Jorge (regardless of the managerial change) aren’t Yankees next year.
Pete,
What do you think is going to happen to:
Torre
Posada
Rivera
Pettitte
I kinda remember a team that lost Griffey and Randy Johnson and they kept on winning.
If A-Rod wants to leave, I’m sure the Yanks can find a lot of things to do with 30 mil a year.
Let’s be real. It’s all about pitching.
If Joba and Hughes keep improving next year and front the rotation and Wang is a 4 starter this will be a good team no matter what goes on.
Hears hoping that Joe Torre is hired back, and the free agents rejoin him, A-Rod included. Money is not an issue. The issue is, it ain’t broke, so don’t fix it.
And don’t give me the “no World Series” BS. Anyone who thinks that the employer/employee mandate can go beyond getting to the Tournament (and its inherant crapshoot) is a fool.
As Rick Carpiniello wrote earlier today, and Pete said last year, “be careful what you wish for”.
Its not taking “long” at all. Its the DSL world we live in. We all want news immediately.
The Yankees are holding organizational meetings in Tampa, beginning tommorrow or Friday. Its why there is no news today.
Yankee executives from NY have to go to Tampa for the meetings, hence no news.
‘raymagnetic October 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I think Joe will be back. Why else would they take so long to announce what’s going to happen. If he wasn’t going to be offered a new contract wouldn’t they have announced it already?”
You must not have been following the Yankees for many years. This is standard Steinbrenner operating procedures. Did the same crap with Buck before he hired Torre. For all of George’s talk about warriors, he’s been gutless in his running of the club.
What’s the name of Mo’s restaurant?
What do they serve?
Will they deliver to West Boca?
Torre will get a 3 year deal as a “consultant” for 2 or 3 mil a year. Mattingly or Girardi will be the new manager. Torre will help with the “transition”. This will keep everyone happy and life will go on.
Has anyone thought that maybe Torre doesn’t want to return?
He can take a season off, get a broadcasting gig and pick up as a bench coach for some national league team or just dedicate himself to his causes.
With the way things look now, I’m not sure I’d want to be the manager of the 2008 Yankees.
http://www.mosnewyorkgrill.com/
MLB Rumors:
Love the sarcasm… Boras is an idiot.
Alex Rodriguez has exactly one month to decide whether to opt out of his contract. This is going to be a hot topic for the next thirty days, and of course the top offseason story if he does opt out. Let’s sum up the latest. The info comes from six similar articles, which I’ll just link to at the bottom.
Any major event deserves an acronym, and Scott Boras has coined one for Alex Rodriguez as he heads toward free agency. Boras’ term is IPN – Icon, Performance, Network. In other words, A-Rod is famous, he’s an awesome hitter, and he boosts the Yankees’ TV revenue. We needed a new acronym for that?
Reminder: Texas is on the hook for $21.3MM of the $91MM owed to Rodriguez for the 2008-10 seasons. This obligation disappears if he opts out.
Brian Cashman again said that not negotiating with A-Rod if he opts out would be his “strong recommendation,” but hinted that others have a say in the decision (read: The Boss). This is the first public crack in Cashman’s stance.
Boras will obviously push hard for Rodriguez to opt out and sign a landmark free agent deal.
We’ve seen the ten-year, $300MM estimate thrown around quite a bit. Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News ups the ante, suggesting Boras could find a team to pay $400MM over eleven years. Screw it – someone should just pay him one billion dollars over 29 years and get it over with.
“Has anyone thought that maybe Torre doesn’t want to return?”
He made it sound the other night like he did want to come back.
Obviously Torre will be a factor for some of the free agents, but it won’t be the deciding factor for most of them. It is nice to hear Mo’s loyalty, though.
I really doubt Torre will have anything to do with ARod’s deal. I still think ARod has made his decision already. He’s going to get outrageous money wherever he goes, so the decision ultimately comes down to whether he still wants to be in NY or not. I think he’s made that decision, and I doubt it has all that much to do with Torre.
As for Mo and Posada, the Torre thing does throw a bit of a wild card into the mix. All deals being monetarily equal, with Torre here, I think both sign with NY automatically. With Torre gone, the balance doesn’t necessarily swing as far in NY’s favor. But as long as NY offers fair money to both, which they will, and as long as the Torre situation is dealt with well, I think both probably come back.
I think Pettitte comes back regardless of the Torre thing. After the year he had, he knows he’s got one more in him. If he let’s the Torre thing get in the way, he’s basically cutting his career a year short. That’s idiotic.
Cashman definitely has a lot of work to do, though. Mo and Posada are both upset at the organization because of the mistakes this spring (refusing to extend Mo, and the whole Bernie fiasco), so even if they resign with NY, they will both need to be soothed a bit.
It’s true, newspaper guys/ESPN/WFAN. Their job is too keep you reading/watching/listening, especially when there is no news.
Buster Olney changes his story two times in the same sentence.
Bill Madden mentions Tony La Russa in his story and all of a sudden he’s a leading candidate to take over as manager.
Until there is news, there is only rumor, speculation and opinion.
You can get that on this blog, you don’t have to watch ESPN.
If Joe didn’t want to return, I’d imagine he would have put and end to this speculation by now and said he was through.
“I kinda remember a team that lost Griffey and Randy Johnson and they kept on winning.”
Yeah but they had A-Rod.
Drew 10 years ago Steinbrenner wasn’t rumored to have any type of brain degenerating disease so the circumstances are completely different now.
SJ44 it is taking too long. Did the Yankees braintrust not know that there was a possibility that the Yankees could lose to Cleveland? Did they not know that Torre’s contract was expiring? Shouldn’t all this have been worked out a long time ago? How long did it take them last year to announce Torre would be back? I’ll tell you how long it took 2 days!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....e_king.htm
I can’t see whether Joe returns or not being a huge factor in either of their decisions. A factor, as Mariano said, but “no number” — how big a factor. The thing is, if they decide to play somewhere else, it’s a pretty good bet that Torre won’t be the manager there, either, so they’d probably have to weigh that in their decision. Bottom line is, unless Attilla the Hun is hired, or they treat Torre extremely poorly (which would have a bearing for me, if I were in their shoes), it will come down to the best offer in terms of money and in terms of their families. For instance, would they want to play across the country at this stage of their careers, and uproot families with school-age children, or simply see them even less than they do now during the season. Mariano did not give any “you can put this in stone” statements. He’s keeping his options open. How else can he negotiate? If other teams think that he’s only open to offers from the Yankees, they won’t bother; if the Yankees hear an ultimatum, they’re not going to like that too much. Mo sounds like he’s approaching this the same way he approaches his work. I sincerely hope he’s back in pinstripes. My gut tells me that’s what everyone involved wants. But you have to be careful about the words that appear in print, because they can make things backfire. I think the reason Mariano brings up the fact that the Yankees had an opportunity earlier is to remind the Yankees that they should not take him for granted and they should not try to low-ball him.
And frankly, if the Yankees put Mo in the position of having to prove his worth, I wouldn’t blame him for walking. Same with Posada. Especially since there is nothing on the open market that comes close to matching what these two players have brought and continue to bring to this team.
i’m pretty sure a-rod mentioned that keeping torre could play a part in his decision.
Thanks, Drew.
That’s a cool thing Mo did. Baseball is a business. I’m pretty sure the size of the pay check will decide where Mo goes next season.
i have no doubt that posada and rivera do not come back if torre isnt invited back .
i see posada in flushing meadows
i see mo rivera on any team but the red sox
all the managers that could apply for the yanks job dont compare to torre .
mattingly is not ready to become a big league manager ( your boy michael kay disagrees )
Raymagnetic –
The difference is that last year Joe had one more year left on his contract, and a newspaper article came out and pretty much said he was fired. It was an announcement, not a conjecture. So the Yankees had to clear that up right away. Here, you have to believe, since George had to be talked off the ledge last year, that there would be more discussion involved, unless Torre took the team to, and they won, the World Series, because those are George’s parameters. Right now Joe Torre is not the manager of the New York Yankees. Right now the Yankees do not have a manager. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable at this point for them to be discussing how they want to go in the future. Maybe they do decide it’s going to be Joe, given the other options available. Maybe not. But I would think that Joe Torre of all people not only understands this (though he doesn’t have to like it). He’s been the first one to say how lucky he’s been to have had a job for 12 years. Most managers don’t last half that long. And Willie’s job was in jeopardy even though his GM gave him and extension and an glowing endorsement before the start of the season.
Hey Scott Boras,
Let’s say someone caves in and signs A-rod for 10 years at 30-35 million per. What happens if three years into his contract his bat slows down or he slips a disc ala Mattingly? Insurance won’t pay if he can play the game. You do not insure #s only health. So now you have a guy sucking 33% or more of your payroll for 10 years and not producing…That is a huge risk.
Truth is none of us know whether Mattingly is ready to manage or not. There are managers who have been successful having never managed before. There are others who have failed miserably.
Girardi, by some accounts, did a great job in a difficult situation down in Florida. By other accounts, he acted rashly and stubbornly when dealing with the front office and management. We’ll never know the truth.
We’ll never know about either guy if they are not given the chance. However both are unknowns and Torre is a known quantity. Do they go with the unknown or take what they’ve had with Joe and his attributes?
Despite O’Connor’s interview with Big Stein, I’m still not convinced he is all there mentally and running the show. I would love to be a fly on the wall of the Yankee management meetings.
Pete:
I’m not asking you to read tea leaves (green or otherwise) about the ultimate decision, but how long do you think it will take before the Yankees make an announcement? They’re not even meeting until today or tomorrow, there really is no rush – I’m sure they were hoping to still be playing now. I’m guessing early next week, maybe?
jennifer-Giambi wont be traded. He’s making $20+ million this year. No one else will pay that much. We have one more year with him and then he’s finally out of pinstripes.
Doreen I do understand what you are saying, but I don’t buy into it. If Joe’s not coming back then they should just let it be known already. Charlie Manuel was in the exact position as Torre and the Phillies have already announced what their intentions are. It’s not hard, it’s not like they’re debating whether or not to invade a country. It’s a simple question, will Joe be the manager or will someone else be the manager. After 12 years of making the playoffs (which if you ask the Pirates I’m sure they’d take it) if Joe’s not coming back doesn’t he deserve to know so already?
I say all that to say I think he will be back in the end.
Way to go mariano,fight for your manager.Talk to Jeter Andy Bobby Jorge,too!!! I smell revolt.
“jennifer-Giambi wont be traded. He’s making $20+ million this year. No one else will pay that much. We have one more year with him and then he’s finally out of pinstripes.”
They need to pick up 1/2 and ship his brittle overweight arse out of here.
Pete Abraham should be the manager. He could post to this blog during the games. It would be great!
Drew, picking up half his salary wouldn’t even get it done. Who else would pay $10 million for Giambi? No one.
I agree with someone earlier who said if nothing else, bring Torre back this year if for nothing else than to get your FAs back. I personally want Torre to stay. The only people who I wouldn’t mind if they left would be Farnsworth, Giambi, Betemit, and maybe Matsui, but everyone else I’d like to see back. I saw some tinks in Jeter’s armour this year, but he’s still the Captain. Can you tell I don’t do well with change?
Rivera should just stop talking. He and Posada arent going anywhere!!! They are both 37 years old and probably have what a year left each? Where is Mo going? Royals, Red, Cubs, Tampa??…Cashman should of signed him in spring training but at Riveras age I am sure Cashman wanted to make sure he was healthy after last years elbow problem and Cashman knows they arent going anywhere.
Another thing I can’t understand is why so many of us on here think Giambi is untradeable. Didn’t the Yankees get rid of a gimpy Randy Johnson and get back 3 prospects plus Vizcaino and only had to eat half of his salary? Didn’t they get rid of Sheffield’s contract and get 2 really good prospects and 1 decent prospect for him, in their own league at that?
I believe if they are willing to eat enough of Giambi’s salary they can trade him and get decent prospects for him. Maybe I’m crazy, just a little bit but I don’t think so.
Sherri, there were some “tinks in Jeter’s armor” this year but in large part he was playing the majority of the year really banged up. He still hit .322 and had 206 hits.
posting is fast and furious today. thought i could exhale in dissappointment after the end of game 4 but the stress level remains as high as ever!
someone posted in jest the other day about how awesome it would be for Alex to hold a press conference to announce that he’d fired Scott Boras as his agent and resigned his extension with the Yankees. Never happen, but man, how cool would that be? Couple that story with what m&md were talking about today regarding a caller who suggested Alex sign with the caveat that Joe would have to come back too – Alex should realize that he has his PR image to worry about in addition to his paycheck, i don’t know how he could go wrong with moves like that, it would take virtually all the pressure off him since its such a ‘nice-guy’ move, you’d almost want to make Alex take over as captain.
Personally i’d just to see him fire Boras cause hes a greedy POS whom everyone seems to hate more and more everyday, i know the guy is just doing his job, but players have to realize the bad rep they get for rolling like that. Seriously, everyone wants to take shots at NY for jacking up the payrolls and overspending like crazy – it seems to me like its more the fault of manipulative crooked greedy SOB’s like Scott Boras who bring that ‘overspending’ mentality to the entire league, not just the Yankees. Can’t this guy get busted for tax evasion or tampering and just go away forever, is there even another sports agent out there that comes close to matching Boras’ reputation? The trend that this guy is impressing on baseball has exponentially grown each offseason, if he keeps it up, he might single handedly force MLB’s hand into imposing a salary cap.
Kurticus -
What Bernie “fiasco”?
If it’s the fact that Brian Cashman had no interest in re-signing a fading 38 year old one tool spare player with an overly sensitive ego on who’s quota for one dimensional players was full – a guy Cashman just knew Torre would look for every and any reason and excuse to get in the lineup not matter who had to sit or “rest”….
That fiasco?
Bernie did alright his final season, but if he was honest with himself he had no reason to expect or even hope that New York would want/need him back.
Remember how Joe pretended Kenny Lofton didn’t exist when he was here and a threat to take precious at bats from Torre’s guy? Lofton sure remembered.
If the new manager is Mattingly or Girardi you dont think either one oif them isnt going to pick up the phone and call these guys they are friends, past teamates in Girardi’s case etc. It is about the money plain and simple
Normally I like to read the opinions, but I had to post reading some comments. What did you expect Mo to say “My decision has nothing to do with who the manager is?� That would be tacitly saying I don’t support Torre.
In my opinion, when stating Mo, Posada, or AROD will leave, you must then answer where they will go. Who will give a 38yr old closer 10.5 million per for two-three yrs? Who will give a 37 yr old catcher 3yr at 13 million per? Who can afford 30 million per year (remember that’s one fourth most teams payroll)?
Look at these players options. Really, who will the Yankees be negotiating against? And remember, ESPN and newspapers make money by offering opinions. If there are no teeth to the opinion who would read or care about them. That’s my two cents.
I know it’s fashionable to say that Jeter is falling off as a player, but if you look at what he did this year it is very much in line with his career stats. His OPS+ was 126. Lifetime his OPS+ average is 123. Last year and 1999 are the years that actually stick out for him. He played way above his career norm in those two years. He probably should have won the MVP last year, but he was completely robbed in 1999.
Mo and Jorge won’t even have to move!
Who will give a 38yr old closer 10.5 million per for two-three yrs? METS
Who will give a 37 yr old catcher 3yr at 13 million per? METS
Who can afford 30 million per year (remember that’s one fourth most teams payroll)? Giants, Angels, Red Sox to name 3.
J -
I think you’re underestimating the market for players of Mo and Jorge’s caliber. There will be many teams bidding for both players, maybe not as much as the Yanks eventually will, but they will be bidding.
I really do wonder if this stuff makes any difference in Big Stein’s decision… like does he take it into account at all? is he thinking “ok, if I fire Joe, then I run the risk of losing our closer and one of the best catchers in the league along with one of our most solid pitchers AND the love of a lot of fans”, or does he not even factor that in to the decision?
I dont see how you anyone could say Jeter is fading when he now has had 200 hits in each of the last 3 seasons. His power was down this year as was his fielding, however he was playing a large part of the year with tendinitis in his knee as well as other injuries. You forget that prior to getting injured the dude was hitting in the .370’s in early June. Jeter has a lot left. The guy is on pace to get 3000 hits at the age of 37.
i think the overall picture here is that Torre hasnt lost the clubhouse. If he had, mo, posada and others wouldnt be saying what he is saying. One thing is to let go a manager that has lost the clubhouse, the other thing is to let go a manager whom the players love.
Raymagnetic -
We can’t trade Giambi because he has a no-trade clause.
I don’t know why, but I have a feeling the Mets off the greatest collapse in team history are sitting there salivating at the prospect of going after Torre, Mo, Posada and seeing if they can somehow convince Pettite to join them. The Wilpon’s are all about PR and public image and the team is the lowest it’s been in quite some time with a fanbase that dislikes the players.
I would not be shocked to hear the rumors start that they are interested in talking with Torre. I think Torre would tell them to bug off because of his ties to Willie, but money talks and the Mets with their own network and new cash cow ballpark on the horizon have a lot of it.
They need a catcher. They need a reliable closer to shore up their pen since Wagner is a mess. They need a veteran presence in the rotation to replace Glavine and let El Duque go to the pen where he belongs.
The first word of this hits the NY papers and George will give Torre a 2 year extension with all the talk about the record, about the fight the team put up this season and about how he wants Joe to take them into the new Yankee stadium. Nothing gets the Yankees to move more than the threat of the Mets or the Red Sox upstaging them.
I, for one, do think Joe’s players can still save him here in NY. Until they officially say he won’t be the manager, he’s still in play and one of the main reasons to bring him back is that it helps in negotiations with their own free agents they want/need to bring back.
I just think it’s hilarious that Arod, of all people, can save Torre’s job and be the hero and actually take the mantle away from Jeter right now. If it comes out that Arod said he would leave NY if Torre wasn’t retained and Torre gets an extension, Arod is the hero and he’s one of Joe’s guys. You think it may not mean anything to him, but he has all the power right now. It’s gonna be interesting.
Joe’s not dead until the Yankees release an official statement that says he is. We all thought he was cooked last season and he was back.
Mo to Mets. I guess they’ll just play enter sandman in the 8th for mo, and 9th for wagner.
Posada to mets. I can see him catching pedro, even though he said he would never play with him when Pete when he was a FA.
Arod to LA, cause they have a history of paying for FA. Worked well with Konerko last yr.
G. Love – I have actually heard several Mets fans echo the same sentiment – grrrrr…
I think the Torre return concept is the way for the players to stick up for their manager after he stuck up for so many of them in previous free agent years. How stupid would it be for Mo to go to Baltimore if it offered 45M/3 to the Yanks’ 37.5M/3? If Mo is so loyal to Joe, why not stay with the Yanks if they hire Mattingly, who is a disciple and devotee of Joe’s approach? Other teams with good managers also have established closers (Angels, RedSux, Whitehose, Twinkies).
It is similarly ridiculous for Posada to claim he may not be back without Torre considering that his primarily alternative is to go to the Mess — and their GM/manager situation is much more tenuous than a Yankees arrangement with Mattingly as Torre’s heir. Big Stein loves Mattingly and would love the idea of turning the club over to him to take it into the new Stadium in 2009.
What’s the latin word for “balls”cojones(mispelled?) Mariano has them and i’m not talking Barry Bonds size cajones at all!!!
As for under estimating those players, I don’t they’re great. Teams dont spend 10 mill for old closers, they just dont. Jorge (my favorite player), I agree the Mets may be a player. I just dont see it.
What do you all expect Mo to say when you ask him that?
“Nah, I don’t care what happens to Joe.”
Relax, everyone, it will all work out.
Mo had 30 saves in a year when there were not all that many save opportunities. Except for the 1st month of the season, he was what we’ve come to expect – virtually lights out. And no health problems this year at all. I’d say the bids will be flying in.
Jorge, even given the probability that he will never duplicate this season’s numbers again, is a far better catcher than anyone else available. Even if he only hits .280 next season, he’s a switch-hitter, he’s durable, he’s got playoff experience, and he’s also had experience handling many, many, many…many pitchers during the course of one season, including lots of rookies. Who wouldn’t want that?
Even if they end up re-signing with the Yankees, what a lift these guys are going to get, just knowing their value on an open market.
And the Yankees kind of got themselves into this by not negotiating prior to the end of the season. I understand Cashman’s reasoning. Mo was coming off a season where his elbow was a problem and he had to be managed accordingly. Both players are no longer young. But I think in both cases, given their contributions to this team over the past 12-ish years, exceptions could have been made, and he would have no problem saying to anyone else, “we have a history with these guys, we brought them up through our system.” And that’s not about the money, it’s about the, for lack of a better word, respect. They’ve overpaid so many over-the-hill, pain-in-the back (Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown) guys, why not go the extra mile for your own?
Giambi – due to make 21 million in 2008 and has a buyout of 5 million for 2009. I may be insane but Yanks should just eat that 26 million and tell him to stay home. They did that with the Igawa posting fee. Dumping Giambi means the OF logjam is settled and Duncan gets some AB’s. He is a roster clog and needs to go as he is no longer productive
In terms of importance to the team it goes like this:
1. A-Rod
2. Posada
3. Mariano
If Mariano doesn’t want to come back because Torre is gone then fine, see you later.
Forgot to mention Giambi has a no trade clause so there is no chance of moving him unless you somehow pay him off to go and take on a huge chunk of salary to the other sucker, I mean team
Did you all see this article on A-Rod? Pretty interesting.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7318254
You know, after reading some of these posts, it just occurred to me that it is indeed not far-fatched to think that Posada and Mariano could go across town. I’m not sure about Pettitte, though. And the reason is that Willie Randolph manages there. He is a familiar of theirs. And the Mets sure would spend the money. And neither Mo nor Jorge would have to uproot their families. And there’s a need by the Mets – it wouldn’t be just for publicity’s sake.
One thing, though, as I’m typing this, I also realize that Mo is not going to be a set-up guy for Wagner; Wagner is surely not going to want to be a set-up guy for Mariano. I guess they could go with two closers. Not a usual set-up, but, hmm, maybe it works.
When it comes down to it, I’m sure posada and mariano probably WOULD stay if torre was gone and it was someone else they liked/respected that came in to replace joe. the point, though, is that if players like that love and respect their manager enough to even consider leaving just based on the fact that the manager is being fired says a lot about what an impact joe has on the team.
Giambi’s no trade clause is an easy work around. Do you really think he wants to sit on the bench with the Yankees if he can go to another team and play every day as their DH?
Joey- The “fiasco” wasn’t NY not bringing Bernie back, it was the way it was handled. Posada has publicly spoken about his disappointment with how Bernie was treated.
Asking a veteran who has been a cornerstone of your team dynamic for over a decade to come try out for the team doesn’t show much class, and it wasn’t very respectful to Bernie, regardless of whether he was realistically too old to play again.
mlb trade rumors offers this scenario: The yankees trade cano for Nathan w/ a window for an extension.
Doubt that will happen, but man, this offseason, it seems that anything is possible
next story on cnbc: ‘could a rod be the first $50MM man?’
My thoughts.
1. Big Stein is no longer operationally at the helm. While he showed up at the playoff games, I think his health limits his decision-making ability. Just a hunch. Nothing grounded. So, it will ulitmately be Hal’s decision with input from Hank/Cash.
2. I don’t think Torre will be back. I believe in promoting Mattingly the front office can show goodwill to Torre by thanking him for mentoring Donnie Baseball the past couple of years. I do very much appreciate Torre’s classy approach to managing the team.
3. I think Posada and Rivera will be resigned. After all of these years, I believe they want to finish their careers as Yankees, secure their spots in Monument Park and open up the new Yankee stadium in 2009. Two-year contracts for both of them.
4. I’m really not sure about A-Rod. But I’m pleased this can’t drag out past 11/10. Obviously, an enourmous talent but I disagree with Boras in that he commands the viewing environment for the Yankees. The Yankees are a greater brand than A-Rod. If he wants to go play in LA or back in Seattle, that’s fine. But no one player is bigger than the Yankee brand.
5. Abreu – I think they’ll exercise his option. Not a great FA market for outfielders. Torii Hunter and Andrew Jones are possibilities but they would have to sign them to long-term deals and I think the Yankees already feel burned by some of the long-term deals on their books. Abreu is a good low-risk, high-value option for 2008.
So, what do the Yanks need this offseason?
- Relievers, relievers, relievers
- A 3B is Arod leaves
True. Billy Wagner, team player that he is would go for two closer role. That also assuming Willie is there after next year.
Why would either Mo and Jorge be eager to leave if they sign say Girardi or Mattingly. Two guys I’m sure they are familar with and certainly like.
I agree, sign Lorussa, all bets are off.
Cano for Nathan would be a horrible trade in my opinion. Cano is a 24 year old 2nd baseman who’s only getting better. Why trade him when you can sign Nathan next year? You know Minnesota isn’t going to offer Nathan a 10mil per year contract when he’s a free agent.
A note about Torre’s contract. The 3-year extension he signed in 2004 included a 6-year consulting agreement. I assume he can opt out of this if he wants to manage another team.
“Joey- The “fiascoâ€? wasn’t NY not bringing Bernie back, it was the way it was handled. Posada has publicly spoken about his disappointment with how Bernie was treated.
Asking a veteran who has been a cornerstone of your team dynamic for over a decade to come try out for the team doesn’t show much class, and it wasn’t very respectful to Bernie, regardless of whether he was realistically too old to play again.”
Bernie Williams was lucky he even got that. He added no value to this team and was absolutely atrocious in the outfield. I don’t care about his great past, I want players that will help us win games. Cashman handled it correctly.
Scooter – I like where your heads at.
3B. Trade for Joe Creede. White Sox want to play prospect Josh Fields, who replaced him after injury this yr.
Relievers. Some in house, Sanchez, Cox, Whelan from minors. Dont know about whats out there in trades or FA. Pens are funny. Players come (and go) out of nowhere. Look at some of the Indians guys.
Nathan?
Most relievers have a very short shelf life, and he is looking like he is going down hill.
That would be an awful trade.
I would’t give Mo & Posada more than 1 yr with an option Look at there age they are not getting any younger
If A-Rod leaves it doesn’t matter who we replace him with. We will not be going to the playoffs next year.
Amen.Ian o’connor,Boras is bad for baseball.Greedy mercenary.
Joe Creede…did he just have surgery for his back. I’ll pass on him
I could maybe understand if we were talking about replacing one guy, like when Tino was signed to replace Mattingly – but we’re talking about not signing 3 core players here, thats a huge change to the face of the franchise, its what the fans know and love, regardless of stats, and thats got to factor in more than anything else when they think about how they’re going to field a likeable team next year. I agree that a winning team will put arses in the seats, regardless of whos out there on the field – but they have to win, a rebuilding year won’t attract 4+ million fans next season, and thats gonna kill the bankroll.
You know the front office should be plenty concerned about letting Mo and Posada go and not bringing back Alex, and then starting the year with newcomers who for one reason or another don’t perform up to expectations while the Mets have another hot start, The Red Sox stand pat and we host the last all-star game in the Bronx where everyone gets to watch Alex start for the NL in a Cubs uniform while we sit floundering in 3rd or 4th place midseason. The expensive ticket prices aren’t going to drop, nor is the cost for a hotdog or a beer – without a winning, likeable, familiar team, you might just have a half empty stadium by September, and that can’t look good for financial projections going into the new stadium. I’m not advocating this as the formula for a good ballclub, im just saying that its something they have to consider as far as keeping the income rolling in.
If you look at attendence records, 2002-2007 have been far and away the busiest seasons in terms of ticket sales, which corresponds with the launching of YES in the 02 season. Thats right, losing years, no WS rings, playoff upsets, but people come back each season cause they know the players and know before the season starts that theyre are ‘favorites’ to win. Without these 3 guys keeping that confidence in place, alot of insecure fans might not feel so much incentive to go buy a jersey, hat or come to a game to spend a couple hundred bucks on food, booze and merch if they feel like they’re a non-competing team full of players that they’re unfamiliar with.
While i wouldn’t call them ‘good’ fans, alot of them won’t come to see a non-competing ballclub, and thats gonna cost them way more than any of these contracts will.
During the playoffs Bob Brenley said on TBS that he once asked Torre what the difference was in managing between leagues. He said Torre told him that with the DH instead of the pitcher batting that the sense of urgency to score runs is not there. I always hated the way Torre just sat there holding someones bat instead of looking like he was managing the game. Now I understand that this was just NO SENSE OF URGENCY to score runs. In the interview Rivera gave he said “this is a business” several times. For the money Torre gets he should at least pretend he is managing.
“I would’t give Mo & Posada more than 1 yr with an option Look at there age they are not getting any younger”
There is no way either signs anything less than a 3 year deal.
I don’t know how Cashman could have handled it (Bernie)differently. Unfortunately, Cashman’s the guy who is not allowed to let his emotions get in the way of the player decisions he has to make. When Cashman spoke of the Bernie situation, it sounded to me like it wasn’t a pleasant decision for him. Offering Bernie the olive branch of going to spring training I thought was fine. Especially since I think almost everyone knew that if Bernie showed up, he would be on the team. I think even Cashman knew that. Joe and some team members tried to contact Bernie and urge him to come. Ultimately, it was Bernie Williams who decided not to come. And I do understand his side of it, too. But Cashman was not the villain in that situation. Time was.
Giambi’s no trade clause is “easy” to work around?
Really? Who is going to pay Jason Giambi 22 million dollars next year? Nobody. That’s his 2008 salary.
On top of that, there is a $5 million dollar option for 2009. Meaning, the team that trades for him (if Giambi waives his no trade clause) is on the hook for $27 million dollars.
NOBODY is taking on that debt for a guy who is a shell of his former self.
The Yankees also aren’t going to eat a large portion of the deal. That’s “dead” money to them and that’s when you get into trouble as a team……when you start putting dead money on your bottom line.
Torre to the Mets? Really? Do you think Joe Torre would do that to Willie Randolph, a person he treats like his son?
Honestly, some of this stuff doesn’t pass the laugh test.
Joe Torre is not going to dump on Willie Randolph. The New York Mets also aren’t going to fire Willie Randolph for Joe Torre (who wouldn’t take the job anyway) or anybody else this off-season.
That would mean the Mets would have to pay Willie 4.5 million dollars to go away.
For all of you who go on and on at to what a class act Joe Torre is (and he is), do you think he is going to backdoor ANYBODY for a job, let alone WILLIE RANDOLPH?
Not going to happen.
If you know ANYTHING about the Wilpon’s that’s not how they operate. They don’t eat money on deals. They certainly don’t eat over 4 million dollars.
Amidst all this paranoia, just think a little bit.
There is not going to be a mass exodus to Shea Stadium. Especially since, in many of these doomsday scenarios, there is no possibility of it happening if you know the people, and the ways they do business.
Bosco Than let them go, this is business
If we lose A-rod we dont need to trade anyone. Go for Lowell he is a free agent and comes from our farm system.
If Mo goes keep Joba as a closer.
If Posada goes re-sign Molina till one of the young catchers ready to come up.
Plus trade for a good hitting first baseman to compensate a little for the loss of Posada and Arod.
You don’t think the Cubs are going to open the vault for 2-3 season of Mo? The only teams that don’t need a closer are the Mariners, the Twins, the White Sox, The Angels, and the Red Sox. However, I think the Red Sox will attempt to talk to Mo about coming to Boston in some capacity.
Every other team in major league baseball would consider Mo an upgrade over what they have and if some team that wasn’t the Yankees was dumb enough to give Zito all that money last year, I believe there is another team willing to give Mo a blank check to come be their closer.
That said, he wants to stay here. He has his restaurant here. He has ties to the area. I’m sure he doesn’t want to leave the Yankees, but God forbid they let Torre walk and bring in Valentine, I think it then becomes wide open as to where Mo goes.
If the Yankees bring back Torre, Mo, Posada, Pettite, Arod they will win over 100 games next season. With the rotation of Joba, Pettite, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy and Mussina as the swing guy and the obvious changes they will make in the pen, this team with this offense will once again be a juggernaut.
With a much better (younger) starting staff, they won’t lose in the playoffs next season.
I bring back Abreu because whee else are you going to get a premium offensive OF to accept a 1 year deal. Pay him for a year and trade him mid season if he’s not doing the job. He’ll be playing for a contract next season. He’ll put up the usual numbers.
I kick the tires on Carlos Pena and see what it’s going to take. If it’s ridiculous, let him go and find a 1b who hits line drives, is a good situational contact hitter and can play the field well. It could be Minky, but there might be something better out there. I would not scream if they brought Minky back.
You trade Giambi and eat the money. You don’t want him sitting around the clubhouse not playing. I like the guy, but he’s not an asset to this team unless someone gets hurt.
Matsui is the DH next season with Damon in left. Shelley should get DH at bats as well next season against tough lefties.
Bring back Molina to split time with Jorge.
Let Vizcaino walk and take some chances on hard throwing middle relievers as free agents to supplement the kiddie corps that are coming to the pen. There are some interesting choices out there.
Jeremy Affeldt. Doug Brocail, Octavio Dotel (if he declines his player option in ATL). I’d definitely look at Joe Kennedy who is a free agent lefty. His stuff looked very good in Sept. against the Yankees and I doubt he’s going to cost a lot. The more costlier options are Scott Linebrink and Al Reyes. I would also look at David Riske. Kerry Wood.
The Yanks get a lefty and a righty veteran middle reliever for the pen to add to Mo and the kids they should be fine. I am also not against keeping Farnsworth. He showed me something Monday night. He walked into an elimination game and pitched a quality inning despite the boo’s. His value is low right now, so why trade him and pay him to pitch somewhere else. See if he can bounce back and at least add to his value again.
If they keep this team together with the new young rotation they are going to be awesome next year. Joe deserves a chance to manage a rotation that isn’t hamstrung by overpaid aging vets whose best years are behind them.
I hope he gets the chance.
SJ44–
You do have to think that the Mets could be – could be – a destination for Mariano and/or Posada if the Yankees don’t come through? I think the Yankees probably will. But what I’m saying is it would be feasible for that to happen. Not the Torre thing. I could never see that. It’s just that sometimes fans think that there is the same rivalry among players as there is among fans, and that just isn’t the case, at least not anymore. Look how easily Johnny Damon assimilated into the Yankee culture. (Not that I could imagine Curt Schilling doing the same, but Posada and Mariano are not anything like Schilling from what I can tell.)
“If we lose A-rod we dont need to trade anyone. Go for Lowell he is a free agent and comes from our farm system.”
He’s old and not half the player A-Rod is. Probably the only realistic option though if he does opt to leave.
“If Mo goes keep Joba as a closer.”
This is something they’d probably do, but what a tremendous waste of talent.
“If Posada goes re-sign Molina till one of the young catchers ready to come up.”
We don’t have any young catchers anywhere near ready to contribute.
The Team hated Buck but he got good press because he helped turn the franchise around and the players didn’t complain because they were the kind of professionals who wouldn’t after he was fired/quit the stories leaked out. It was Bucks mismanaging of the bullpen and the dog house he threw Wetland in that cost them in 1995.
Torre has no dog house as evidenced by the fact that he continuous to try to get Farnsworth (and others) to play well. He plays the players Cashmen gives him and then gets blamed when Pavono, Igawa, Jarret Wright, Kevin Brown, Big Unit, Farnsworth, Karsay, Giambi and others are all varying degrees of busts as if he didn’t inspire/yell at them the right way to get them to play like champions.
Stories of executives who are concerned about the young pitchers they have being handled by Torre. The only 3 good young pitchers until Wang they have ever given him are Mo Rivera, Andy Pettite and Ramiro Mendoza who was plagued by shoulder problems that Torre and Mel Stottlemyer were able to get 6 very productive years from. Their have been cries of over using relievers and blowing their arms out. Arms like Flash Gordon who came with and left with a bad shoulder. And Middle relievers like Scott Proctor whos arm is fine and maybe every time he got hit hard had more to do with Scott Proctor not being a great pitcher and less to do with overuse. And of course future HOF’mer Tanyon Sturtze who hurt his shoulder and it must be Torres fault becuase a MLB pitcher had not sustained an arm injury in over 15 years so I’m with the critics on that one.
The team hasn’t had championship caliber pitching since 2003 but next year they will. With Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Joba leading the charge and not pitching in relief or off the playoff roster and other big time prospects like Allen Horne chippimg in, Torre who won with Pettite and Mo at the same experience level in 1996 as these guys will have in 2008 is the right man for the job
As far as Mo goes their no discussion. Its not about what hes still capable of, even though he looks the same to me. Their are 2 players this Franchise owes. OWES. Jeter and Mo they gave Jeter his money years ago and now they’ve jerked around the greatest pitcher we ever seen and disrespected him. Respect is what Jeter and Mo should always be given and when pitchers have been robbing the Yankees for years and Mo has been alone in the bullpen breaking his make getting the team to the playoffs for years when he asked to be extended you tell him yes sir.
No Discussion. You OWE it to him.
SJ why wouldn’t the Yankees just eat Giambi’s salary and get a prospect or two back in the deal? He isn’t going to play for them anyway. They eat contracts all the time.
Didn’t they eat a large portion of Randy Johnson’s deal? Didn’t they eat a large portion of Jared Wright’s deal? Heck aren’t they basically eating Pavano’s salary?
When Giambi plays he still has a plus bat and some team out there will be willing to try to land him if the Yankees are willing to take back a lot of the salary.
The people here who are saying nobody but scrub teams will take Mo have no idea what they are talking about. Any team could find room in their bullpen for Mo. Maybe not as a closer but still. What if the Yankees do low ball him and he comes back and says he doesn’t need to close he just wants another ring. Every and I mean every team in the league would bid for his services.
I love all the people that ignore that Giambi is owed $27 million and has a no-trade clause. Are you really suggesting we eat something like $17+ million to have him play in another uniform?
Yo G. Im with you.
I think thats really getting lost in all this discussion, is that the current offense paired with THREE new young guns in the rotation is gonna be sick, whoever is managing. You lose that offensive power and we could be sitting here next year saying the opposite to what we’ve been complaining about: hey we had the pitching, but we couldn’t swing the bats to save our lives, like some twisted east coast version of the Padres.
G.lOVE, Mo is too classy for beantown,they can try but no way he’d go to crazyland.
“Didn’t they eat a large portion of Randy Johnson’s deal? Didn’t they eat a large portion of Jared Wright’s deal? Heck aren’t they basically eating Pavano’s salary?”
They paid $2 million of RJ’s salary and $4 million of Wright’s. It would take significantly more than that to convince any team to take on a player who is owed $27 million.
* we could be sitting here next year saying the opposite to what we’ve been complaining about: hey we had the pitching, but we couldn’t swing the bats to save our lives, like some twisted east coast version of the Padres.
Rusty, Thanks for the giggle.
If we paid 17 mil of 27 mil owed to Giambi everyone and anyone would take him out of our hands. Look at what they paid Frank Thomas last year. Giambi would be a hot commodity in the thin free agent market this year. I think Cash could have got rid of him last year if it wasnt for Giambi insisting that he wouldnt wave his no trade clause. Now that we are over flowing with dh’s he’ll be more likely to sign off.
Doreen,
Honestly, I see no scenario that puts Mariano in another uniform next year. None. I don’t care about any of the posturing, any of the talk, any of the made up rumors, etc.
I don’t see Mariano going anywhere. They will sign him and they will pay big money to do so.
Posada? Trickier because of his age but, in the end, I think the Yankees ante up and give Jorge his deal.
Will it cost more to pay them than it would have in ST? Yes. However, the Yankees knew that going in and I believe they will GLADLY pay to keep both guys.
This is a business. A BIG business. Players can love the manager all they want. However, if they get an offer they consider good enough to stay with the Yankees, they are staying.
Jorge Posada’s best friend in the world is Derek Jeter. Do you think Derek Jeter is going to let Jorge, or Mo for that matter, leave?
Not going to happen, IMO.
I will only believe they are gone when I see the press conferences annoucing their signings with their new teams.
Until then, I don’t buy into the paranoia. Its a waste of time to me.
make = back
bah!!
i keep getting trying to keep up with these posts, but forget what i wanted to say by the time i get to the bottom. slow down folks!
Will A-rod, Posada and Mo take a cut in their salary to play?? No way.. Its just a statement they keep making so that they are in the soft books of the Torre and the fans.. They cannot openly go and say it doesnt matter who I play for… The fact is that this is a money world and though you could find some genuine people who take pay cuts to stick with a team, A-rod, Posada and Mariano all know that this probably the last contract they might sign.. They would rather try to extract as much as from the yanks than having an argument over who’s the manager.. They are anyway going to play under a different manager in a new team..
James, look at posads’s stats for his age we owe him too,they are all farmed raised.(4 rings)
Despite the fact that we always here how Cash saved Torre’s job last year, it’s not apparent to me Cash is in Torre’s corner this time around.
Sometimes I wonder if Cash is as frustrated as some of the rest of us at some of Torre’s ways, ie his visceral distrust of younger less experienced players, the way Joe always babied Bernie, bullpen mgmt, game mgmt etc etc.
I fully realize Torre has many strenths as a manager also
It’s been well reported how Cashman succeeded in negoiating for himself with the boss clear lines of authority within the organization. Cashman may want to extend that line to the dugout now as well.
We saw a little rift between Cash and Joe this season with the publicity of the Joba rules, and it strikes me that Torre and Cashman are not on the same page in many ways.
Taking the temperture of blog comments here and elswhere, NYT mostly, and radio stuff, there seems to be a backlash brewing against not resigning Joe, which may result in the Yankees trying to please the public and appease the media instead of moving in a new direction.
Steinbrenner’s ultimatum leaves the Yankees with a public relations mess now, if in fact Torre is not rehired.
Without that blast from the past, this “process” as Cashman calls it would have been a lot more dignified.
SJ44 –
I don’t think Joe’s staying or leaving will have that ultimate impact of causing a player to leave or stay. The only thing that will cause either Mariano or Posada to leave is if the Yankees don’t want to pay them. And though I agree with you that the Yankees will offer them wonderful contracts (given, like I said before, they’ve done it for players they’ve got no history with), there’s always that slim chance things don’t go the way you think they will.
I think all three want to retire Yankees, have their numbers retired on the same day, and walk hand-in-hand out to unveil their monuments out in monument park (in the sunset, of course!). I think they’ve probably talked about it, too.
I think I’m going to take a break from here, though, for a while because there’s really no news, and I’m starting to get a little dizzy!!
saucy,
just push refresh button it will pick up where you left off.lol
I love Jorge. I hope he makes the hall of fame has his number retired and plays for the Yankees for the rest of his career but their is an icon level that Mo and Jeter are on that Jorge isn’t. When they die their going to get monuments other than Yogi and maybe Ford no one else is
The Yankees ate 4 million dollars of Randy Johnson’s contract. They aren’t eating 27 million dollars of Jason Giambi’s contract.
Also, there is a full no trade. Giambi has to agree to a trade and he’s not going to just go anywhere because you don’t want him back anymore.
Tell me the last time the Yankees at 27 million bucks on a contract.
I’ll take it one step further. Since Cashman took over, tell me how much money the Yankees have eaten on contracts.
Its UNDER 12 million dollars.
They wouldn’t even trade Igawa because they didn’t want to eat money. Its bad business to have dead money on your books and Cashman has worked real hard at eliminating that since he has gotten full control.
all this downtalk on Giambi makes me feel like im gonna have to watch that ugly ogre-ish SOB accepting the 2008 Comeback Player of the Year award after smacking 45 homers for some other team while we pay half his salary.
I can already here the press conference about his heroic recovery from physical deterioration brought on by roids and HGH, “I needed to prove that i could do this without all that stuff, i made it my mission to show myself and all aspiring young athletes that you don’t need that stuff to win, and i just needed a chance to get healthy again and i’m glad the gave me that chance.” /shootme.
Doesn’t it look weird seeing “free agent Rivera”
catya, i know. but i’ll admit, i’m a slow reader. and i have this thing i have to do from time to time… work
Right now, the only thing that is of any interest to me is whether or not Mo stayed.
I would be heartbroken if he left. (I’d survive, but…darn it Yankees, sign Mo!)
I also think that it’s going to be tough to eat that kind of money on Giambi. He’s most likely here another season unless he gets frustrated with his potential role (or lack thereof) and asks for a trade. Even if the Yanks ate 17 million, I don’t know what team would pay Giambi 10 next season and eating over 20 million to get a guy out of the clubhouse is wrong. He’s not a cancer in the clubhouse.
My idea is to tell Giambi he’s gonna start next season. As the new Yankee CF! After about a minute of playing CF in Legends Field he’ll be on the DL and we won’t have to worry about him until he comes back after the all star break. Just that first walk for him out to the OF should injure him.
In all seriousness though, I like the guy. I just think he eats up a spot on the bench that is better served with someone else right now. You never know though, he could come back with a vengeance next season.
On another topic — Would you guys want to pay good money to Al Reyes to set up Mo next season? I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. I like him. I’d actually be happy if they spent a little on him and took a flier on Affeldt or Joe Kennedy as a lefty for the pen.
Rebecca, love ya girl. but i think the Cleveland Indians beat Optimism. Time to change the name out of posterity! (or not, hang tough with the optimism! whatever)
So funny how you can tell in the comments when Petes posted a new story. The room clears out pretty quick, 40 comments on the new thread already…
I’d re-sign Vizcaino before I go after Reyes. Vizcaino is a better pitcher than Reyes.
I do like the idea of a guy like Affeldt as the lefty specialist.
Al Reyes does nothing for me. His 3 blown saves against the Red Sox in the last month of the season cost the Yankees the division.
I wouldn’t want him anywhere near the Bronx.
As far as Giambi, I am sure the Yankees would love to move him as well as Mussina. Unfortunately, there are no takers and they aren’t keeping 20+ million of dead money on the books.
That’s why after 2008, when a ton of money comes off the books, the Yankees will be very aggressive with free agents in the Class of 2008.
I expect them to stay out of the deep end of the pool with this years free agent class.
So the Yankees would be/have been willing to take on ridiculous contracts for over the hill players but they will not eat a contract in return for prospects?
They were willing to pay more than half of Wright’s salary in exchange for a nobody pitcher and they wouldn’t eat part of Giambi’s contract for a decent prospect(s)? They would rather pay Giambi 27 mil to sit on the bench than try to trade him and get something in return? Am I crazy to think that they can trade him and get more value than they would if he sits on the bench next year and so called earns his 22mil? Hey maybe I am smoking a pipe dream.
_My idea is to tell Giambi he’s gonna start next season. As the new Yankee CF! After about a minute of playing CF in Legends Field he’ll be on the DL and we won’t have to worry about him until he comes back after the all star break. Just that first walk for him out to the OF should injure him. _
lol
best laugh of the day, right there
Me “lika “saucy,sounds like a plan,I’ve wanted giambi gone for years,a right thinking kind of person!!!!booya
A lot of our vets are past their prime. I know they’re fan favorites and whatnot, but if you look at it from a realistic perspective, signing them to long expensive contracts is going to be what hobbles the Yanks and make winning championships very difficult for years to come. Younger players are the way to go.
That said, I don’t see any replacement for either Jorge or Mo on the market this year that would really satisfy me, so their resignings are probably the best the Yanks can get. Still, I wouldn’t sign them for that long.
And for people flaming others because they have the audacity to abandon the veteran heros…. no individual is above the team and I care more about the betterment of the team than the people who comprise it. If that means trading or not resigning veterans, so be it. It’s a competitive sport.
I like Reyes’ WHIP and the fact that he closed. I know he’s old (37) and he did get beat up by Boston down the stretch, but if the money isn’t obscene I’d give him a look.
I’m worried Viz is gonna get a big 3 year offer from another team desperate for a reliever. We can’t do that with him.
Although I think the pen is gonna be solved from within outside of a lefty reliever, unless Igawa somehow becomes our Lefty out of the pen. Shudder.
Ditto on Reyes. He stinks.
He personally could have made us play LA instead of Cleveland, had he not been so horrible.
Hey Mo, you’re a real ingrate.
First off, you’re not what you once were. Many Yankee fans cringe at the sight of you coming in in the 9th inning after Joba mows down 3 batters in the 8th. If he wasn’t slated to be a starter next year, he would be the closer who could do a job better than you for around $400K, a fraction of the price you think you want which you’re not worth anymore.
Second here’s what the Yanks gave you which includes the most money for a closer or reliever ever and the most lucrative contract by average annual salary for one (no 1999 salary listed for some weird reason -source: COT’s baseball contracts):
2 years/$21M (2005-06), plus $10.5M 2007 club option
* 05:$10.5M, 06:$10.5M, 07:$10.5M club option
o 2007 guaranteed with 60 GF in 06 OR 114 g 05-06 (vested 2006)
* 4 years/$39.99M (2001-04)
o $8M signing bonus (paid over 4 years, 2001-04)
o 01:$7.15M, 02:$7.45M, 03:$8.5M, 04:$8.89M
o no-trade clause 2001-02; out clause after 2002
WHY’D YOU HAVE AN OUT CLAUSE? FOUR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS AND A THEN RECORD 4-YEAR $39.99M CONTRACT WASN’T ENOUGH FOR YOU?
o avoided arbitration 2/01 ($10.25M-$9M)
* 1 year/$7.25M (2000), lost arbitration ($9.25M-$7.25M)
* 1 year/$0.75M (1998)
o renewed 3/98
* 1 year/$0.55M (1997)
* 1 year/$131,125 (1996)
* 1 year/$0.19M (1995)
* signed 2/90 as amateur free agent from Panama, $3,000 signing bonus
* agent: Fernando Cuza
* ML service: 11.105
SO SHUT UP ABOUT BEING DISSED.
Two years @ $10.5M/yr. = $21M or go elsewhere. The Yanks paid you handsomely at every stage of your career esp. after the World Championships.
Another thing:
The Yanks owe Mo nothing whereas he could give the Yanks a discount so they can get better relief pitching for all the money they’ve paid him throughout his career.
I love how players want to be paid top dollar but it’s heresy for them to take less so the team can sign better players with the money freed up. Paul O’Neill took less so the Yanks could sign good guys or at least have the money to.
How about this?
Mo takes $7.5M for 2008, $3M
Guys/Gals-I want Giambi gone more than most but no one is not going to pay $10 mill let alone $20 mill for his services. I know jennifer, Drew and raymagnetic think we can just eat half of his deal and pay $10 mill but no team is going to take him even at $10 mill a year. He use to be worth it when he was on roids but he’s not anymore. Like Bosco said, Giambi is owed $27 million and has a no-trade clause. To suggesting we eat half or more of his deal (Approx. $17+ mill) to have him play in another uniform is just a stupid investment. Dont forget he’s only on contract for one more year so if you’re going to pay that much to get rid of him you’d might as well have his bat in your lineup. Keep in mind, I hate Giambi but we only have one more year with him so we’d might as well get use to the fact that he’ll be around till his deal is done.
no more torre your a fanatic!!!
As much as the lack of pitching, the lack of a solid bat at first base hurt the Yankees big time. First base is traditionally a position a team expects a lot of production from. I hear a lot about the better bats at other positions compensating for the lack of one thats as good as it might have been at the first. But i cant just buy into that based on the post season experiences over the last few years.
Not taking anything away from Doug M, he is a solid backup and a wonderful late inning defensive replacement at first base. But he is just not the year long regular. And so is the case with Andy.
With the money thats paid to him, Giambi should have been that guy. I hear that he is a solid clubhouse leader and all ,but, putting his entire tenure with the Yankees in perspective, he has been a major disappointment. And, if there is the slightest possibility of cutting him next year, that should be done.
If the Yankees are serious about pursuing Santana,as is being reported, Giambi might be one of the guys that might have to parceled after eating most of his contract (which we are anyway doing these years considering his playing time). He would be an upgrade for the Twins at the DH and might be willing to waive his no trade clause provided he gets a extension. It might also help the Yankees in saving their Tier I prospects from being traded and give some of the aging legs more time at the DH. And, how they would get serious production at first base! well, thats another question for another day..