Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 10, 2007 
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An offseason of transition has started for the Yankees and the first order of business is the manager.
Rick Carpiniello has some advice for people happy to see Torre go: Be careful what you wish for.
Scott Boras says A-Rod should opt out because he’d be the most valuable free agent ever.
The Steinbrenners left their Manhattan hotel without saying much about Torre. But Hank Steinbrenner likes what he saw from the team. Brian Heyman was on stakeout duty there.
In Westchester, a hounded Joe Torre didn’t comment. Jane McManus has that story.
I’ll be back at the Stadium today for more clubhouse duty. Today may be less eventful than I expect tomorrow to be.
peter gammon’s take on all of this: “But the larger question is whether Posada or Rivera leave, will it open the door to the 1980s, when players didn’t want to go to New York to play for the Yankees. “
Migames –
That’s a fair question that Gammons poses. Torre was definitely a draw for many players, as was their run of contention. Players pretty much figured there was a better than average chance they’d get to the post-season with the Yankees. Without Torre, and if they lose particularly Mariano, and perhaps ARod, it does call into question just how competitive the Yankees will be in the near future. Sure, they’ve got some great young pitching talent, but it’s relatively untested on the ML level. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with Gammons, or that the Yankees can’t be competitive without Mo and ARod, or that someone else can’t be an effective manager for the Yankees. I’m just saying it is a fair question.
i agree 100%
This goes beyond how torre handles his bullpen, it comes down to money, that is why stienbrenner’s comments put cashman and the rest of the yankees between a rock and a hard place.
Whatever happens, its going to be VERY intresting
I don’t think the 1980′s will happen. George won’t allow that to happen. He’ll throw money around and go into debt before the 1980′s happen again.
i believe that stienbrenner did throw money around in the 80′s
I don’t understand not wanting to hire Girardi because Zimmer is one of his closest associates. That’s exactly what this team needs, is that kind of Zimmeresque strategic in-game decision making. I hope The Boss can swallow his pride on this one and think about what is best for the team. Torre has always looked better when he’s had a strong coach to help him out like….Zimmer or Girardi. As such, bringing that kind of strategy back into the dugout would do wonders for the team.
As far as the whole Gammons question, maybe it’s a fair one, but he is not an impartial source IMO, and I think what he’s speculating here about FA’s not wanting to come to NY, is what he HOPES will happen. Of course he does, he’s a giant homer and it would help his team. But potential FA’s couldn’t really expect Torre to be the manager here forever, could they? Besides, even if Jorge & Mo leave (which I pray they don’t) we still have Jeter, Cano, Abreu, Damon, Matsui, hopefully A-Rod, and more importantly, a talented core of young pitching. Potential FA’s know that pitching wins championships above all else. So if Hughes, Kennedy & Joba are as good as they project to be, I can’t see why a FA wouldn’t want to come and play behind that kind of pitching, or why a FA like Santana or Bedard wouldn’t want to come anchor such a talented young staff in a few years.
All the doom and gloom, “bringing back the 80′s” talk is silly, as is the “be careful what you wish for” stuff regarding Torre.
We all knew he was going to leave at some point. The guy’s been here for more than a decade. That’s an incredible tenure for a NY manager. But the Yankees are going to have to play without him at some point, and he’s not the only good manager in the world.
The Yankees will be fine. It’ll be an interesting offseason, and the 2008 and 2009 teams will probably look a lot different than the 2007 team. But there’s so much young talent in the Yankees organization, and enough money in the coffers to bring in big names when necessary, that it’s just silly to be jumping off the cliff like the Yankees won’t be successful again.
With all due respect, the first order of business is not who will manage. The first order of business is to find out whether Cashman is still running baseball operations. If he is being pushed aside again by a rambunctious Steinbrenner in violation of his agreement of two years ago, Cashman has a big choice to make.
But the fact that nothing further has been said about Torre is a sign that Cashman has grabbed the reins back and that a rational process is underway. That’s appropriate and is the “respect” that Torre deserves. He’s never going to get an apology for Steinbrenner’s “win or else” remark made before game 3.
Next: A-Rod can be replaced. As economists are fond of saying, it’s “guns versus butter” or, how will you balance your spending?
What if the Yankees decided to do something to reduce Runs Allowed instead of signing someone who will presumably add to Runs Scored? I don’t want to beat the fallen horse, but if they trade two young arms for Santana, that improves their rotation immensely. The argument proceeds that in the short term they will need to score less runs in order to produce the same number of playoff qualifying wins. They can stop relying on long ball offense, while also being able to put out a much more formidable 1,2,3 rotation in playoffs.
In short, use the A-Rod money to acquire and extend Santana’s contract instead.
While Torre is (was?) a draw, The Boss was always a drawback. Will players want to go to NY without Torre? Of course. It’s still the media and social center and the financial power of the YES network, sellout crowds and the Yankee brand mean salaries will remain great. Moreover, with Cashman in charge and the Boss fading, it’s very likely that the Yankee clubhouse will be a far more stable and rational environment than the 80s.
Were there many free agents who didn’t want to come to New York in the 1980s? John Denny didn’t. But Dave Winfield, Jack Clark, Ed Whitson, Phil Niekro, Steve Kemp, Rick Rhoden, Ken Griffey Sr and Danny Tartabull did.
The Yankees may be in a situation where this is Steinbrenner’s last decision before dementia sets in. Uncertainty over who will run the Yankees may be a factor but I doubt it. PLAYERS MAINLY WANT THE MONEY!!! They are just not honest about it like Richard Fish.
I just do not understand the Carpiniello article, or all the comments like it (not in this thread, yet, but in general).
Torre has to be replaced eventually. Bemoaning the fact that he’s a legend, and there’s no way to replace a legend, is pointless. Because eventually you do have to replace that legend, and yeah, the guy who follows him might not be a HOF manager.
Things happen, you eventually get a new manager, and you move on. Either we anoint Torre the Official Manager For Life, or we accept the fact that he’s leaving at some point. Maybe he could have stayed for a year, maybe two, more, but would that really change much? Should they keep him around hoping he wins another WS, so he can go out with a bang? But then, if he does win another, why would he leave? Never mind the fact that winning a WS isn’t exactly something to can schedule.
Acting like it’s a foregone conclusion that whoever replaces Torre will be awful, and the next few years will be disasters just because Torre’s not around any more, is stupid.
For Peter Gammons to say that nobody will want to come to New York is absurd and a complete fabrication. The Yankees have a monster payroll, they have tradition, and they have an owner who wants to win at all costs. The Yankees have the money to make things happen and an owner and front office who are dedicated to putting the best team on the field as possible. But looking through Gammons’s eyes- why would you want to go to a team that can make the playoffs every year?
“I don’t think the 1980’s will happen. George won’t allow that to happen. He’ll throw money around and go into debt before the 1980’s happen again.”
And that strategy is what lead to 1990-1992.
Hey Jim-
Don’t forget other greats to come here in the 80′s like Eddie Lee Whitson, Marty Bystrom, Andy Hawkins & Joe Cowley. It’s true lots of players will come just to cash in, but the Yankees should be in some more thought & scouting before they sign another Kei Igawa.
It’s going to be a bumpy ride, but I’m game for it.
The managing decision is at a point now where it should not be rushed, but it needs to be announced soon. Once that’s decided, you’ll probably have a better idea about who will stay and who will go.
The ’80′s had a lot more to do with over the hill former stars than anything else. Thats why I completly disagree with Gammons. Cutting ties now unless a FAIR deal can be worked out is the answer. The 80′s Yankees never won. Winning(and money) brings players in. With the farm system well stocked, I say bring the kids up and trim the fat off of this pig.
Gammons has history on his side in what he says about free agents. Pre Joe Torre, Yanks were 1 of 4 teams (Mets and 2 Canadian Teams) listed on players contracts as the team the least amount of players would accept trades to. The Canadian teams was probably an economic thing- US dollar vs Canadian dollar. Interesting that the other 2 were NY teams because the players saw NY as a media buzzsaw. Players started wanting to come to the Yankees after Torre because news of how he shielded players from the buzzsaw made it tolerable. Winning 4 WS in 5 years prbably didn’t hurt either.
Why do people think the Yanks don’t have the money for A-Rod and Santana/Ace? If it is true that Yanks have a budget…..They had 18 million for Clemens this year. They have the tail end of salaries of players we have long since forgotten about coming off the books this year (4M for Jaret Wright is an example). There is a question mark if Pettite will be back (16 M). The team who never had many league minimum contracts now has more than a few of them. Stop worrying about George’s cash. He has a history of not letting it collect dust in his pocket.
I know music was god awful back then, and the Yankees only played in one WS and got beat but…..
the New York Yankees won more games than any other team in MLB during the EIGHTIES
I’m just sayin
Jim Clark- Good list that you made there. John Denny is a name that I haven’t heard in forever, the former NL Cy Young winner. Even in the 80s when the Yankees were struggling, there were still players who were excited to come to New York. Rick Rhoden was so rejuvenated to be a Yankee that he promised to win 20 games, though it never happened. No matter what happens, the Yankees are still going to attract the very best. Who the manager is will have something to do with it, but it’s an overrated issue. Players are still professionals who want to do their job and not get wrapped up in worrying about who the manager is.
Awful music? What music would that be in reference to?
Two good pieces of news buried in the links: Jose Molina wants to resign with the Yankees (so no moaning about BUCs for months); and the Steinbrenner son talked about Joba being a starter (so that means resigning Mo is a priority). Second one is a stretch, but I’ll take it.
I just hope the Yankees keep Joe in the organization. Girardi/Zimmer (which I would love) or Mattingly/? would both be fine by me and if Joe stays in the organization, the guys on the team will appreciate it.
Girardi as manager with Torre as Bullpen/pitching coach. Dream come true.
Maybe Torre stays on as director of young pitching.
80s music?
I LOVE me some Bon Jovi.
Might just be the Jersey girl in me talking though
I was thinking more like Torre in some kind of player developement/media relations role. Bullpen management, very funny.
A graceful exit is what is missing for Torre. No one should guarantee him a managing job for life but how much easier would it have been for the team and the manager who follows Torre if he went out on his own terms. If Torre was to be offered a 2 year contract with the understanding that he retires from managing at that time, the team gets through the last year in the old stadium and the 1st year in the new stadium. Mattingly will be better suited to take over the helm and the passing of the torch from old guard to new guard would be complete. It’s a clean ending and would involve only positive media hoopla.
Fire Cashman. Let Torre take his place. But give Torre a good assistant who handles the nuts and bolts–an up and comer who in a few years can become the de facto G.M.. Torre is going to retire to Maui someday. Thus Torre remains an important part of the organization, mentoring both the next manager (Mattingly or better yet the young stud in Japan now) and the future G.M. and keeping the pressure away from both, and this way Torre also is able to continue keeping all the egos in the locker room in line. Plus Torre can surely wrestle A-Rod away from Boras enough to get a good deal for both the Yankees and Alex, Mo won’t move away, Matsui–who has more loyalty to Torre than just about anyone else–will do whatever is necessary (learn first base, D.H.), Guidry can stick around and help Wang develop. And on and on. Don’t fire Torre, promote him.
horrendous hair bands, toto, seagulls, george michael, duran duran, 99 baloons, christopher cross….
I could go on and on. Springsteen excepted natch – though his 70s albums were superior. And of course the Yankees had a revolving door of managers and ill fitting players and I have no desire to go there again. But they did win a ton of games and were in a lot of races. They lost out to one year wonders time and time again.
not sure why everything was crossed out. Guess the software determined my idea idiotic. Probably right.
If Larussa is hired,it does impact players coming to the Yankees.My friends in st louis said ,Edmonds,pujols ,juan encarnarcion,suppon,marquis.and a host of pitchers,will think twice before ever coming to a Larussa managed team.
(actually they used the word, Hate him.’)
I just hsppened to be listening to one of their radio stations host, Bernie M (who is also the beat writer for the St louis Post Dispatchi)the largest paperin the state. Bernie mentioned all the playes that will be happy to see LaRussa leave. He was openly joking about it on air with his cohost,and they were laughung. People St louis are happy
to lose Larussa.
How many Yankee players” Ever”,even now when it looks as though Joe will be gone,have said anything negative about him.That speaks volumes!!!!!!
Laussa’s players can’t stand him,he too” ANAL ” Do we want that here,too?
Next year is going to be tough enoug already,Larussa too YUK!!!!
I think a lot of the doomsday scenarios being portrayed in the media right now are vastly overblown. The yankees so-called chaos is just great news fodder right now. I believe when it’s all said and done there will be some change but in the end the product will remain much the same as it’s always been.
The Yankees can get any player they want to play for them. All they have to do is over pay any free agent. Just look at how the Mets landing Pedro a few years ago. They gave him more money and more years than anybody else would and he took it even though he must have known that their rotation was mediocre at best. Free agents will come if the money is right.
It is not easy being a Yankee fan in Massachusetts right now.
It is not easy being a Yankee fan anywhere right now.
Gary Sheffield doesn’t count as a true yankee,He is a Mercenary,too.Incase anyone wants to mention him.
When a manager(Larussa) has estranged the teams fan base and players,the media and the only person that wants him to stay is the owner,Bill Dewitt,could so many people be wrong?
Here’s the statement the Steinbrenner family/Yankee leadership should make if they decide to part ways with Torre – and Torre should be invited to be there for a public display with the new manager: “It is with great sadness but also with a sense of great optimism that we announce today that Joe Torre will not be returning as manager of the NY Yankees in 2008. The past 12 years have been a remarkable time for this organization, in no small part because of the leadership of Joe Torre. This has been a glorious time to be part of the Yankee family, and Joe has been the steady hand guiding this ship. We will miss him, but look forward to his continuing as part of our Yankee family for years to come. He is a Hall of Fame manager, and he made the Pinstripes proud (nice if they can mention some senior role for him in the front office)….Looking forward, we are pleased to announce that Joe G/Donny M have accepted the offer to be the next Yankee manager. Following in the steps of Joe Torre will not be easy, but we feel Joe/Don are up to the challenge, and they have the full support of everyone in the organization….blah, blah, blah…..
Here’s how the Yanks can make up for losing A-Rod’s 54 HR:
A healthy Giambi smacks 30 HR, 16 > he hit this year.
Cano smacks 27 HR, 8 > he hit this year.
Damon smacks 15 HR, 3 > he hit this year.
Jeter smacks 15 HR, 3 > he hit this year.
Matsui smacks 28 HR, 3 > he hit this year.
Posada smacks 22 HR, 2 > he hit this year.
Cabrera smacks 10 HR, 2 > he hit this year.
New 3B Mike Lamb signed for a year and $3M smacks 17 HR.
If he doesn’t hit 17, he and Betemit (who hit 14 HR between the Dodgers and Yanks last year incl. 4 for the Yanks) sharing 3B will combine for that.
That’s 16 + 8 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 17 =
All 54 HR hit y A-Rod made up for.
Peter-
I am sure it is unprecedented, and highly unlikely in professional sports, but what are the chances of players like Jeter, Andy, and even Roger personally calling the Boss to voice support etc.? I understand change, but again, the timing
just does not seem a good fit. With a new stadium opening, would the Yanks take the chance of not having ARod, Torre, and possibly Mo and Posada? Say they do bring another Mgr in and they don’t make the playoffs next year etc. What kind of feel does that give the “NEW” Stadium. I would like to see a 2yr contract. The Yanks are on the edge with some great young talent waiting to push on the scene. Everyone assumes the results will be nothing but positive. I myself think they will be positive as well, but there is always a chance things could fizzle a bit. The Mgrs in the “wings” just don’t seem like slam dunk candidates to handle the current/future state of affairs.
The Yankees of the 80′s were a terrible amalgamation of high priced free agents, revolving door managers and disappointing seasons. They made the playoffs early on but those teams were remnants of the late 70′s championships teams.
This organization has thrived under the stability and leadership of Joe Torre and Brian Cashman.
It’s no coincidence the team became great when Steinbrenner was exiled from Yankee-land in the early 90′s.
It’s no coincidence that the team struggled when he took more of a decision making role in the early 2000′s.
It’s no coincidence that now that he is feeble, old and not involved in the day-to-day operations, the team once again has a promising future.
Despite what the media and certain fans think about George Steinbrenner, he is not a factor.
Just because some reporter decided he would make a big splash and get some comments from ‘The Boss’ about the future of Joe Torre, don’t think that this is the same boss.
The pictures and published reports speak for themselves. They illustrate a man who is probably suffering the early stages of Alzheimer’s Disease. If you think otherwise, you are being naive.
The decision to keep Joe Torre will be an ORGANIZATIONAL decision. Cashman and the level heads in the Tampa offices will have the last say.
Let’s hope they do the right thing and let Joe Torre finish what he started.
Guys think about this like a jury the longer the verdict takes,the more likely Joe comes back.I often here non Yankee fans say Who couldn’t win with that budget.
I always respond Joe is great with managing all these high price egos.Larussa is a head case himself.You know he’s a lawyer…..
I just hope Arod stays and values the pinstripes..Mo and Jorge will remain here.Torre will go and Girardi or Mattingly will be managing …AND THE YANKEES WILL KEEP WINNING AND SHINING IN THE BASEBALL WORLD
i wonder how many times the yankees would have made the playoffs in the 80′s, if the post-season was structered like it is today (3 divisions instead of 2, and a wild-card).
the 70′s and 80′s both had some embarassments as far as music is concerned. i’ll take the 80′s though in a heartbeat though.
i don’t know why my first comment isn’t show up:
Pete, did your paper send a reporter to Joe’s house too?
Any Yankee fans in Massachusetts want to go out an drink beer in mass quantites soon? Let me know.
By my count, and assuming the current divisional lineups, the Yankees would have been the wild card 5 times during the Second Dark Age: 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986 and 1993.
Great article by Rick Carpiniello. Steinbrenner gets no pass. The Yankees have been successful recently despite the meddling. It would be a disaster to have George more involved than he already is.
The goal should be to get to the Tournament. After that, it’s a crapshoot. Anyone who denies that is a fool.
Mission accomplished, 12 for 12.