Is no news good news for Torre?
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- October
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It’s always amusing to me when team executives act like they’re determining the course of the free world.
That was the case in Tampa today as the Yankees played cloak-and-dagger with the media and then refused comment as to what happened. There were literally black cars with grim-faced men behind the wheel zooming past reporters.
We’re talking about who is going to manage a baseball team next season. I understand this is big business. But it’s baseball, not life and death. If the Joint Chiefs of Staff want to keep their feelings private, that’s OK. Not the people who run a baseball team.
Enough ranting.
Meanwhile, I have no idea yet what happened today. But if they were going to get rid of Joe Torre, wouldn’t they have done that by now? If they let Torre go tomorrow, it amounts to unprofessional behavior on their part. Why would you treat one of your best, most loyal employees that way?
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on Tuesday, October 16th, 2007 at 7:03 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Maybe they are discussing a new bug spray – okay enough on the midges!
Let’s hope they still can sleepy Joe! He definitely might have cost them the ALDS by not demanding the team come off the field when the bugs came out.
Oh, and he hasn’t properly used the bullpen since 2000.
I do believe the longer this goes the better Joes chances of returning.If this had ben decided I think you wouldve heard.Theres a lot(Mo ,Po)riding on this.
great points pete. enough already. there is a lot of stuff this team needs to take care of, the managerial position being first and foremost. unless there is some sort of huge internal debate (which is fine), let’s have a decision and get to a-rod, rivera, posada.
At the very least, it seemed they were having second thoughts.
My gut tells me that they’re trying to figure out both if they keep Torre, who comes back, and if they don’t keep Torre, who’s going to flee with him.
Apparently, whatever the Steinnies thought, they didn’t expect the reaction they got.
And seeing as I’ve gotten myself into a rather nasty arguement over on livejournal as to whether or not fans that want Torre to go really understand what he’s done for the team, I’m gonna shut it and wait till said decision is made.
Peter,
Sillier then them is the scene of you high paid journalists breathlessly waiting for this story. Come home, Pete.
on-going negotiations, perhaps?
The Yankees are a billion plus corporation if they need to take some time with a decision regarding key personnel that is their perogative. Torre is still under contract until the end of the month. Alex has yet to opt out. Act in haste repent in leisure.
Why don’t they just trade the entire 25-man Yankee roster for the entire Indians 25-man roster, with the Yankees kicking in about $125 million for salaries….?
I heard that they wanted to tell Torre of their decision BEFORE the announced to it to the media. Maybe a decision has been made and they wanted to let him know first thus the delay today?? Speculation for sure on my part. And also if they have decided to keep Torre would they not want to iron out the contract before as well?
My guess: A decision was made. They decided to offer Torre a new contract and Cashman and company are using the evening to hammer out the details with Joe.
Show me another business that makes a monumental decision without talking about it for a few days. Then show me the same business that tells the media what they were talking about in the process.
There’s a great playoff series going on right now. You guys have plenty to write about.
Great article/post on The Bronx Block about Donnie Baseball and what happens to him and how he will be thought of if/when he takes over the manager’s job!
EJ: where is this great playoff series of which you speak?
can they fire torre already so we all can get on with our lives.
“If the Joint Chiefs of Staff want to keep their feelings private, that’s OK. Not the people who run a baseball team.”
I’m pretty sure that anybody in this world that wants to have a private meeting has a right to. Being a reporter doesn’t grant any special entitlement.
No offense, but I imagine swarms of reporters are quite annoying.
>> But it’s baseball, not life and death. If the Joint Chiefs of Staff want to keep their feelings private, that’s OK. Not the people who run a baseball team. >>
No offense Pete, but isn’t that what *any* reporter would say? It’s your job to pass this kind of information along to the public, so I understand the frustration if nothing’s happening.
My guess is Torre’s coming back, and they’re trying to figure out at how many years and under what terms. I get the feeling’s it’s 1 year and Guidry’s gone.
If they want to try and start a new era with a new manager, that is okay. Having said that, if they are looking for a “better” manager, they are idiots. Mattingly still needs another year or two before he will be ready to manage.
Let Joe at least finish out Yankee Stadium’s tenure and usher in the new stadium, then walk out on his own terms.
Now all the crazy rumors are starting Mo to the Phillies or Mets!! UGH! They need to get this Torre thing wrapped up. Offer him 2/11, with mutual option for a third year. He can manage the last season at the old Yankee stadium and the first year at the new.
Than Mo, and Posada will be back and all will be alright in Yankee land.
You bring up Eisland to be the pitching coach and keep Larry and Tony and third and first base coach.
My thought is they bring back Torre for 2 more years at 5 million per. He closes the stadium and opens the new one. After that he hands the reigns over to Donnie. Nice, clean and easy. If this happens they need to cool it with all the fire Joe stuff at the end of the next two seasons…it’s really becoming undignified.
If you give Torre one more year, Rivera (one year) and Posada (2-3 years) come back. Maybe A-Rod stays, I don’t know. Throw Joe under the bus at the end of next year. At that point, Abreu, Mussina, Giambi, and assorted others are off the books. They probably free up, what, $60 million? We’ll have an idea if IPK, Joba, and Hughes can pitch. The team HAS to look different in 2009. Might as well have a new manager as well.
Pete, my sentiments exactly on the previous thread . If they are done with Torre why has it taken sooo long to let him and the fan base off this roller coaster, ride. Joe has to be staying put,or Yankee int’l looks unprofessional,period.
My hunch is that the delay points strongly in joe’s favor. My guess is that the “powers that be” are arguing about it. if they all wanted him out, i think it would be done.
I can’t see criticizing the Yankees for keeping their meetings private. It seems silly to people that this irritates people.
The one theme that is pretty consistent amongst bloggers is that Guidry needs to be replaced. I agree… just found it interesting that nobody is coming to his defense.
THe JOke here is that all the stuffed shirt wannabees that are sitting on the doorsteps in Tampa and thinking they are need to know right now what the answers to all their questions are, even tho they may not have been talked about yet.
Maybe the press should go home and write about something else until these people have had a chance to go over all the things they have on their plate to discuss.
Granted all of us fans want to know, but the world isn’t going to come to and end if that doesn’t happen today.
Pete, you are better than your last post. Keep in mind, it only feels like the Treaty of Versailles is being negotiated b/c your colleagues make it that way. Camping out at Joe Torre’s house last week??? Going to the gate at Steinbrenner’s home??? I know that you did not do that, but give me a break. If your brothers in arms did not do that, it would not be the big deal that it is….these are business people determining the fate of a big organization….of course they are going to be “solemn faced” when they have to do their jobs AND be bothered by disrespectful (see the points about Joe and George’s homes) hack “journalists” that add zero value to the task at hand….
56Bomber,
You raise an interesting point about Guidry. What will Torre do if they say he can come back but they’re going to change the pitching coach? Would he jump at that? Just like Phil Jackson once said that he didn’t want to go to the Hall of Fame without Tex Winters (who isn’t eligible), but into the Hall Phil went.
Wang will suffer without Guidry, but all the young guns will thrive under Eisland (sp?) if they go in that direction.
It’s probably something that is being kept in-house by the Yankees. Torre probably has an idea of what will happen. It looks like it’s still a three horse race to see who manages. I really don’t have a clue who will manage at this point. To paraphrase Jim Mora- “I don’t know. I just don’t know. I might think I know, but I don’t know!”
Johan Santana come on down!
Consider this.
Two years in a row, we lose in the first round, and right away the drama over Torre starts, and no one goes nuts in the papers that we lost.
I think this is just a game the yankees play to avoid taking heat for losing again and again and again in the playoffs, to keep the heat off.
But now this is played out, so when we lose next year, what will the front office do then, what dog and pony show will they create then?
Quick hits on what the Yankees should do.
Re-sign Doug,
Re-sign Posada(3/35)
Re-sign Mo (2/25)
Extend Alex 2-3 years, give extra dough to get rid of clause
re-sign Jose (2year/5)
pick up option on Bobby (assuming they believe kids are ready for 2009)
Permanently move Damon to Left.
Trade/buyout Giambi (can’t stay healthy)
Trade Farnsworth (someone will take him, eat some of the salary)
Trade Wilson
Trade Matsui (looks like outfield market will get crazy, relatively cheap based on salaries)
Not sure what to do about the pen overall, hopefully there are kids to bring up, instead of using retreads.
I suspect the Yankees’ braintrust has already made its decision, and agreed to keep it private until tomorrow just to irritate the media. They’re probably at a local watering hole right now having a good laugh.
It always amazes me how sports writers can cry and whine about trivial things. They are worse than babies with wet diapers.
Besides deciding on a manager and free agents, the Yankees need to find an entomologist so they know which bugs are repelled or attracted by bug spray.
I would like to think that the Yankees have Joe in the loop as to what is happening. Who knows they could have decided what to do about Joe and it is now in Cash’s hands. Remember Joe’s contract is done. Cash could be talking with Joe’s agent about a new contract.
Some people that want instant gratification keep whining that the Yankees are not being “fair” to Joe. Let me give you the other view….if the Yankees do not take their time to make a well-informed decision, if they do not consult all of the people that matter, that are just now getting together in Tamps, is it really fair to the organization and to its fans? If the Yankees made some rash decision solely to appease those seeking instant gratification and to appease those whose livlihoods are tied to writing about the Yankees on a daily basis and make an uninformed and poor decision, is that “fair” to us? I’d rather the right decision, whatever that is, be made. Look, Joe is still under contract, made $7m last year, and millions with the Yankees, I find it hard to weep for him. I’d rather the right decision be made…he can wait until that happens.
he should stay–he did bring them to the playoffs every year
If they’re rsspecting Selig’s no dumping managers during the play-offs rule, we’re in for a long wait.
mel
I think they will find a spot for Guidry somewhere in the organization so I do not believe that Torre would be put in that position. Guidry did not really distinguish himself in the role and largely only had to concentrate on Wang given the veterans in the rotation for the past couple of years. With next years rotation looking like it will include Chamberlain, Hughes, and possibly Kennedy (as well as Wang who will need some focus to recover from this postseason), I think the pitching coach job is going to need a very experienced person – especially with young pitchers… Eiland seems to be a very good fit. I could see Guidry kept on a special assistant perhaps to continue his work with Wang.
Yes let’s hurry up and make a bad decision so the writers have their story! As a fan I could care less how long it takes. Also if they bring back Torre (since he wants to manage the Yankees so bad) he should take $4 mil a year. He’s still under contract until the WS so all this unfair to Joe talk is absurd. No one in particular but enough with the media saying that Torre is being fired, he isn’t.
56Bomber- That’s a good point that you bring up about Guidry staying just to work with Wang. If Guidry is shown the door it may take Wang extra time to adjust to hearing a new voice. Wang seems like the kind of person who is shy, sensitive and takes some time to respond to a change. Remember how it was tough for him when the Yankees released Mike Myers, his best friend on the team. I’m not saying that Wang is fragile by any means, it’s just very important for him to be able to maintain a comfort zone. Working with a new pitching coach may compromise some of his comfort.
They just showed the Boone home run on Fox.
Today is the four year anniversary of that glorious event…
Right on, Rebecca!
Torre has underperformed the last few years. Time for a change. Will Posada and Mo follow Torre to Pittsburgh? I doubt it. How many steaks will Mo sell at his restaurant if he leaves town? None.
Today is also the 20th anniversary of baby Jessica. Just a useless piece of knowledge. LOL
I’d like to see more of the Boone homerun.
Rebecca,
Did you see Girardi revelling in the memory of waiting to see who their opponent in the World Series would be? He said it was the best week of his career. And he threw Torre’s name in there.
I think alot of Yankee fans will be upset if Mo leaves. I can’t believe he doesn’t know if the Yankees want him back! Of course they do!
to everyone who thinks Torre is being mistreated, and that it’s “ridiculous” that Torre has had to wait 9 days for an answer, think of it this way:
Torre has earned $172,602.74 over the last 9 days while he has been treated so shamefully.
what a disgrace.
We need an edit button. I don’t know what the heck I meant to say. LOL I’m tired and sick. Please forgive me.
jennifer,
Is that the girl who was switched at birth? They had a storyline on Private Practice about that and they found out because of a genetic disorder. (Don’t usually watch melodramas, but that show is riveting). They must’ve been recognizing Baby Jessica.
Wow Byrd dominatated in the first inning.
No she is the one who fell down the well.
She is the one who fell down the well in Texas. I remember watching it when I came home from school.
J-Dawg
Hard to say how Wang will recover from the postseason – maybe Pete can give us some insight on his character since he’s written a book on the guy – but you bring up a good point about his relationship with Myers. That kinda showed that he needs to have some level of a comfort zone and if so it does make sense to keep his mentor around – if Guidry would want to stay on in that role. Guidry is a great Yankee and I’m sure George (or his sons) would not simply turn him out. It might be a matter of what Guidry will accept.
“That’s a good point that you bring up about Guidry staying just to work with Wang. If Guidry is shown the door it may take Wang extra time to adjust to hearing a new voice.”
how do we know that Guidry actually helped Wang?
Guidry was the one who got him away from throwing nothing but sinkers to try to get more strikeouts, but i’m would argue that he was a better pitcher in 2006 without the K’s.
Guidry convinced him to throw the slider more and some change-ups.
i have no idea if Guidry was right or not, but we don’t know that taking Guidry away from Wang is DEFINITELY a bad thing.
Wow. Top of the order disposed on 8 pitches (1 ball!). Go Tribe!
Rockies – World series champs 2007
Devil Rays – World series champs 2008
I wonder if this new pitching coach could help Igawa and Farnworth? Just a thought.
Kevin Youkilis has he biggest Ears,dumbo must be a close relative!!
Josh Beckett dosn’t have a chin so he covers it with that fur of a gotee.
Beantown has “Hip hop” Manny,ill fitting uniform (2 sizes too big)dred locks,DO rag on his head,”Homey looks wild!
a true band of “idiots.”
Go Indians!
….Cleveland or Colorado?
And the puns write themselves.
Jennifer,
Thanks. Now I remember. How long was she down there?
Yeah I also don’t understand all this Cy young talk, Yes Wang had 19 wins this season. But if you watched all his games, he wasn’t as good as he was the year before. He had some great games, but overall I don’t think he did as well. Is it teams figuring him out?
Todd Helton’s not necessarily one of my favorite players, but I thought it was a neat moment when he was all choked up after last night’s victory. I’m happy for him after the years of struggle that he went through trying to make the postseason before this year.
I read an article it said 2 1/2 days I didn’t remember it being that long.
Is Mirabelli catching Wakefield?
Okay and now for the other side- how do we know that Guidry DID NOT help Wang?
Yes doug is catching Wake. Hopefully Wake will be rusty it has been a long time since he pitched last.
Those of you media-haters out there:
here is my point: what other business takes a week to actually get people in the room at the same time? a week. The Yankees are handling this very poorly.
Torre isn’t getting any better or worse as a manager since the season ended. Either keep him or not, move along. The quicker you have a new manager, the quicker that person can call and mend fences and Rivera and Posada.
If you don’t think their loyalty to Torre is significant enough for them to go elsewhere, you’re fooling yourself. The only time I have ever seen Rivera get upset at a reporter is when a question suggests Torre doesn’t know what he’s doing.
It always amuses me when the media and the fans voice their displeasure with a Baseball Teams’s RIGHT to conduct their business as they see fit. It is FUNNY how members of the Media and the fans feel that they are ENTITLED to know what happens AS IT HAPPENS, because they JUST HAVE TO KNOW. How about this ? : The Yankees will tell all of us, WHAT they have to tell us, WHEN they feel like telling us…and they can DO WHAT THEY WANT ? We are ENTITLED to NOTHING…IT IS JUST A GAME ! There are much bigger issues that all of us deal with on a daily basis. Maybe the Yankees want to tell….OMG…this is OUTRAGEOUS…they Yankees want to tell JOE TORRE !!!.,….yes they may want to tell JOE TORRE …or WHO THEY WANT TO SUCCEED HIM….they want to tell the ACTUAL HUMANS that are DIRECTLY affected by their decision…before the Vultures, I mean, reporters get their “food”….I know,,,I am crazy….sorry for MY rant…
The team is not considering bringing Joe back as a thank you for everything he has done and what he may deserve.
The fact is at this time Torre is still the best man for the job. Regardless of Mattinglys alleged comments this morning, no one really believed he was prepared for the job yet anyway, what harm would it be for him learn under joe for another 2 or 3 years, no harm at all in fact i think it would be more than usefully for donnie baseball and this organization.
forget about trying to save face, swallow your pride, and just BRING JOE BACK
OMG……a whole week ?….Is there an ambulance over at Joe Torre’s house to make sure he doesn’t have an anxiety attack over the PURE HELL he must be going through over the possibility of NOT MAKING 7 million dollars next year to Manage the Yankees ? Don’t the Yankees knos that this man WILL DIE if they don’t hold an EMERGENCY MEETING to determine if he LIVES or DIES ? Those Yankees are suchBAD BAD POORLY HANDLED PEOPLE….They need to be arrested !
no need to be snippy.
Where are the midges? Beantown needs the “experience.”
“Okay and now for the other side- how do we know that Guidry DID NOT help Wang?”
we don’t.
that’s my point.
guidry leaving may or may not be bad for Wang, no one knows. so we shouldn’t act like it is definitely a negative.
The fact is at this time Torre is still the best man for the job.
i love this. this is clearly an opinion but you call it a “fact”.
“Guidry was the one who got him away from throwing nothing but sinkers to try to get more strikeouts, but i’m would argue that he was a better pitcher in 2006 without the K’s.”
while being the triple a pitching coach, neil allen has been credited by everyone including wang with teaching wang the new grip that changed wang overnight from a marginal prospect to a star.
a sinker is a very elusive pitch. learning new pitches can mess up the sinker. i believe that is exactly what happened with wang this past summer. his sinker was so good i belive he should focus on it primarily and limit the number of other pitches he throws per game.
ironically allen and guidry are close friends. even though allen works for the devil rays,
guidry, if he conrtinues as pitching coach should have at least a talk with allen about what he showed wang. wang needs to get back to whatever it was that created so much downward movement.
Hmmm- You’re right. I guess Wang’s the one who knows for sure. It would be interesting to see how he does IF they change pitching coaches. Dave Eiland probably would be a good pick, just because Hughes seemed to really reap the benefits of working with him. Maybe he could provide Wang with an extra boost. Sorry if I seemed a little touchy on the other response, I’m recovering from a stressful day.
Pete -
I’m not a media hater, do you honestly think that in a year no one will remember or care how many days it took to make this decision other than Joe Torre?
I suspect the Yankees are adjusting the way they make these decisions with George’s apparent decline. If you think easing the old Lion out of the throne is going to be without major family tension and anxiety, then I think you are being a little unreasonable.
I am willing to complain loudly if they come up with a lame set of decisions, but a couple of days to decompress after a long and rewarding season followed by a quick boot from the playoffs seems like no big deal to me. JMHO.
Can anyone please tell me which is the best option for the yankees?
In my opinion, replacing X for Y when Y learned everything from X doesnt make much sense.
As for Torre’s contract. Who cares how much money he makes?! A)Its not our money B) its 1/146 or .006 of what the yankees are worth
If not Torre, bring in someone else. Not Mattingly
Randy – If that’s true about new pitches messing up the sinker, that might be the answer that I was wondering about. As I remember, Wang broke out the slider mid-season against the Red Sox, who always seem to hit him well, and dominated them. Francona referred to it as “the maturing of a pitcher.” While maturation seems to be a good thing, Wang didn’t seem to have as good a sinker after that. I thought it was because he had fallen in love with his new pitch. Now it seems that he may have used the slider more because his money-pitch – the sinker – wasn’t as good.
If that’s truly the case, it might be fixable, by Guidry, Neil Allen, or whomever, and put Wanger back to being a reliable pitcher again.
If getting rid of Guidry is part of the deal for him to come back, there will be a new pitching coach in 2007. Torre didn’t quit when Zim got mistreated, Chambliss got canned as hitting coach or when Maz got canned last year. He isn’t going to the wall (nor should he) for Gator. He just has to worry about himself.
It certainly wasn’t an endorsement of Guidry’s skills as a pitching coach when they brought up Dave Eiland, whose minor league season hadn’t ended yet, to work with the younger arms on the team. I saw that as sealing Guidry’s fate for 2008. A very public vote of no confidence with that move, IMO.
Pete,
I disagree with your take on this for the following reasons:
1. The smart move is to let some time pass after a crushing loss. There is an old business saying that’s applicable here: Don’t make long term decisions based on short term emotion.
2. The Steinbrenner brothers operate their other business on a consensus building basis. Unlike Pop, they aren’t dictators. Perhaps they want to look everybody in the room in the eye, ask the important questions, reach consensus, sleep on it, then go from there.
To me, it seems like the smart way of doing it. Torre isn’t being twisted in the wind. Unless, of course, he wanted the Reds job that went to Dusty Baker.
Let’s face it. Either way they go, they are going to get heat for it. Not the least of which is the issue of how much to pay him if they decide to bring him back.
I think we can agree its not going to be 7 million a year. How much, and how you approach it with Torre, takes a bit of diplomacy.
We live in a DSL world. Everybody wants info immediately. In the old days, teams didn’t hold organizational meetings until after the WS. Now, they are holding them during the LCS.
I don’t think the timetable has been bad for any of the parties involved. I also don’t think its been handled unprofessionally by the Yankees.
You don’t hear anybody pimping candidates publicly, sniping about Torre, or any of that stuff that permeated the Yankees for years.
They will reach a decision by Tomorrow, Thursday at the latest, IMO. After that, the second guessing of the decision will begin.
Its just the way it goes.
Peter,
I respect you for this blog.
But, but, but, you are really ranting in your own words.
Just like us, you do not know what is happening.
If they are retaining Joe, they need to negotiate a contract. If they decided to keep him, that is what may be hapenning in the next few days.
If they decided not to invite him back, they are not going to insult Joe, by talking to the media first. They need to reach out to him first.
You have been writing in so many threds that they are insulting Joe. How so? If they decided to tell him he is not wanted back immediately after the ALDS elimination, you and your media brother would have killed Yankees saying that they did have class and canned him right away. Also, this whole thing that Mo and Posada will walk away is utter non-sense. If Joe is gone and the new manager is either Mattingly or Girardi, both are well known to these players and you really think they will go to another team and another manager, especially given Yankees will not underbid for their services? With the money they will save on Torre, they can pay even more to Mo and Posada.
Apparently, I am a media hater. No, actually, I used to be a newspaper reporter and I love the media.
Pete asks: What other business takes a week to actually get people in the room at the same time?
I don’t know about where you work, but big decisions in my organization often take a YEAR to make, not a week.
In fact, I even know of a newspaper where it took a week just to fix a problem with their server! (Kidding, Pete, kidding!)
It may not be our money migames but, it does matter.
It certainly matters to the Steinbrenners, who may not like paying a manager more than double what the next manager earns for results that have been on the downturn for the last 3 years.
I know if I owned the team, there is no way I pay ANY manager 7 million bucks a year. Nobody is worth that kind of cash.
Why not Mattingly? What has Don Mattingly done so wrong to make him not the guy?
Joe Torre was over 100 games under .500 when he was hired as manager of the Yankees. I doubt people were doing cartwheels when he was hired.
Being a manager of a baseball team isn’t brain surgery. Mattingly knows a ton of baseball, is universally respected by the players, and probably has learned a great deal in the past 4 years working with Torre.
The toughest part of the job (if he gets it) is replacing a guy who has had a ton of success. That’s going to be the case for anybody who takes the job.
It puts Mattingly on the same level as anybody else they would hire.
“With the money they will save on Torre, they can pay even more to Mo and Posada.”
Can we stop talking about the money. The yankees are worth over a billion dollars. The money they save from not signing torre and given it to Posada and Mo is around an extra million.
These are the yankees. Money has never been an issue.
SJ, yes 7 million is a ton of money. But if you have a business worth half a million dollars, would you add someone to your payroll making $3,400 a year? As you can see, its all relative
Just to get us off the topic of Joe for a minute. I have a great reason we should root for the Rockies. If you recall a first base coach in their minor league system was killed earlier this year by a foul ball. Well the team got together and when they were voting on playoff shares they voted to give his family a full share!
Money is always an issue. You are deluding yourself if you don’t think it is.
They are paying a billion dollars out of their own pockets to build a new stadium. If you don’t think money matters, you aren’t following how they have been doing business the last 2-3 years.
Why do you think there is greater emphasis on younger players, especially pitchers? Its because they can control them finanically for years and they don’t waste millions (hello Carl Pavano) on the open market.
Money matters. It ALWAYS has for the Yankees and always will now that the younger Steinbrenners are running the team.
The only “spending blindly” move they have made the past 2+ years was Kei Igawa. That’s it. Everything else they have done has been finanically prudent. When you pay that much money out of your own pockets for a new stadium, you have to be smarter with a buck. The Yankees are doing just that.
You may not like talking about money but, money is an issue. It is with every team. Even the Yankees.
They are paying a manager more than DOUBLE what the second highest paid manager in the game is paid. That’s just dumb and I’m sure the Steinbrenners know that.
You don’t determine how much you pay a manager based on the net worth of the team. One has nothing to do with the other. You determine it based on his job and how much others in the same in the industry are making.
Question regarding Pavano. If he were a normal baseball player (i.e. one who actually cared about getting back on the field). He would be ready to rehab some time in July. Do the Yankees allow him to start the rehab process knowing full well he likely wouldn’t be ready to start a game until late August early Sept? or do they just tell him, to leave, that he stole enough from us already and we don’t want to give him a stage to show he can still pitch.
Midgames,
There is big difference between what a business is worth Vs their earnings. In terms of earnings, $7 mil is a lot of money even for the Yanks. According to Forbes (not sure which magazine), the Yanks made a loss after revenue sharing and luxury tax. Big stein never cared about it, but the young Steins will care about it. Irrespective of how all of us feel about Joe, he is not worth twice the next highest paid manager, especially given his record in the post season for the last four/five years.
and just to give you some idea.
Humberto Sanchez had tj surgery in April and is already throwing off flat ground.
Pavano had it in June.
Mike Coolbaugh was the coach killed by a foul line drive.
Scranton pitching coach is Dave Eiland (former Yankee/Padre)
so you think giving Clemens the contract that he got is being prudent? Or giving the contract to Damon was being prudent?
As for building the stadium, a) the dont have to pay revenue taxes b)its an investment that they will SURELY get a very nice return on.
Building a stadium only increases the bottom line
Come on, its the yankees. They have money. They can afford a 7million $ manager, if its torre, leyland or the ghost of billy martin. The amount of money the pay torre is not and should not be a factor on if he comes back next year. And if they do say it was, it will sound petty
Jennifer – I would bet that there is more mention of Carl Pavano on this blog than in Yankee offices. Personally, I would tell him to work out on his own.
Okay, let’s make this quick and easy:
If you want Torre back, press 1. If you don’t, press 2. If you are unsure or believe there are factors making this more complicated than it seems, press 3.
*1*
Jennifer,
Pavano has been rehabbing, dividing his time between Florida (not Tampa, the WPB area) and Arizona.
From what I heard, the Yankees aren’t involved much, if at all, in his rehab.
It is going to be interesting to see what happens when ST comes around, since he is still under contract with the Yankees.
Its not like he can’t show up. It will be interesting to see what the Yankees do with him.
Nothing about how this organization conducts itself or its business surprises me any longer.
It’s the reason why I can love it one minute and in the next, it can excite fury and dread. Rather like a member of my family.
I like Michael Kays’ idea regarding Joe Torre
Sign him to a 1 yr deal for same amount (7Mil)
He agrees to retire after 2008 win or lose the WS
Don Mattingly takes over in 2009 opening the new stadium.
Joe stays with organization in some capacity,whatever he wants,just not the field manager anymore.
They retire #6 have a Joe Torre day in 2010.
net worth is an indicator.
And throwing out the fact that torre makes double of what the next manager makes you have to have a clearer picture on the whole scheme of things….The Cubs are worth half of what the yankees are worth, and guess who is second in earning, Sweet Lou. Who by the way has won 1 playoff game in his last 7 games.
As for the yankees made a loss after all was said and done, you can point the those awesome contracts like Giambi and Pavano being a bigger factor than what Torre made.
If money did not matter, why do you think that Yanks passed up on Beltran?
Also, your reference to Damon is misguided. Damon is not making twice the money a coparable player with same nummber of years.
SJ thanks for the info, I hadn’t heard anything about him. I figured he was just out shopping for new Porche’s.
SJ…who is ST?
I feel dirty rooting for the Indians, but it’s the only way I can sleep at night.
I say give Joe a two-year contract with the stipulation that Don Mattingly takes over then. Otherwise, give it to Joe Girardi now.
As for Carl Pavano, I wish he’d vanish.
I believe they passed on Beltran to get Randy. Although I am happy with the decision not to get Beltran. I think he is too soft. Every ache and pain he is sitting out games.
The Yankees may have passed on Carlos Beltran because they knew what the Mets failed to recognize – he’s not cut out for the Big Apple. But money also played a role.
JEEEEEzus!! I don’t get it! Why can’t the Yankees brass take some time making major decisions without everyone complaining they’re not acting quick enough?!? What a bunch of reactionary impulsive uninformed dolts!! If this is unresolved after a week or two, fine, complain. But Kee-rist it’s been EIGHT DAYS since the end of the Yankees season. Making multimillion decisions that affect so many people SHOULD take some time.
migames- spring training.
Wake has lost it.
“Sign him to a 1 yr deal for same amount (7Mil)
He agrees to retire after 2008 win or lose the WS
Don Mattingly takes over in 2009 opening the new stadium.
Joe stays with organization in some capacity,whatever he wants,just not the field manager anymore.
They retire #6 have a Joe Torre day in 2010.”
Sounds perfect to me.
“so you think giving Clemens the contract that he got is being prudent? Or giving the contract to Damon was being prudent? ”
Clemens was a risk. it was a calculated risk. but it was a one and done contract. that’s the kind of risk i don’t mind them taking. he’s off the books and in no way affecting the future of the team.
too early to say about Damon. he was worth it in 2006, not worth it in 2007. we’ll see. i don’t think he’s finished. maybe he is traded. if he is, it makes his contract pretty smart. all-star production in 2006, ok production in 2007, plus whatever they get in return from the trade.
Wow why was youk trying to catch that? You are giving up a run? Very stupid, he was lucky he dropped it.
From a media management perspective, I wonder if the Yanks will try to time the announcement to maximize exposure. With the NLCS done and no football at any level happening, the most ink they can get is tomorrow (before the Sawx implode with the light of a thousand suns)
I think Damon will come back this year with something to prove. I believe he is a proud man, and wasn’t happy over all with his year. He will come into camp in shape ready to prove everyone wrong.
With that play and the bugs against the Yanks, I think Indians are the team of desitny in AL this year!!!
Red Sox Nation on ledge alert.
The Damon contract was a very good contract. Who was going to play CF last year? Also, by signing him, it hurt the Red Sox. As Larry Lucchino said, “it was a two-fer”. It helped the Yankees and hurt the Red Sox.
You don’t know anything about financing stadiums do you?
The Yankees have to purchase the bonds to build the stadium. They also have to make all of the bond payments. Unlike other stadium deals which are a mix between public (local government) and private (teams) entitites, the Yankees have to foot the entire bill.
The difference? If you work with local government, you get tax free financing. In many stadium deals, local government purchase the bonds and the team makes the payments, as part of a public-private partnership. Since the Yankees have to pay the freight themselves, they have to pay tax on the bonds, significantly raising their payments.
The project has already been re-financed twice because of the financial crunch banks are under, as the Yankees look to find ways to make the debt service manageable. The difference in debt service payments taxable and non-taxable bonds are significant and the Yankees are on the hook for ALL of it.
They also have to pay for all cost overruns. Meaning, they have to keep a seperate fund with a certain amount of money in it to cover possible cost overruns. Depending on the banks/bond firm requirements, how much they have to keep in that fund is a moving target.
The short of it is, the Yankees have to commit a TON of money to the project before they reap the benefits. Its a big, big deal with a lot of moving parts.
I would say the Clemens investment was a good investment. They didn’t break the budget with it and it was a one year deal. No long term commitment. He also helped the team. Unfortunately, he got hurt.
Its a helluva lot better than commiting to a long term failure like Carl Pavano.
I’m hoping the Rocket’s workout regimen and work ethic, not to mention a little bit of baseball knowledge from one of the greatest pitcher’s of all time, rubbed off on IPK, Hughes, and the like.
Assuming Cleveland wins tonight, they better win Thursday @ Cleveland because I don’t see them winning an elimination game in Fenway.
Not that Bostons pitching will be lights out in game 6 or 7 but they can certainly beat Cleveland in a slugfest in that tiny park.
Anyway, go Indians I guess.
Could that be the straw that broke the camels back? 6-0!!
….o-o….
Crapola, I need to go make sure my Red Sox fan friend is away from all windows, he lives high up…
This is the first game I’ve watched since the Yankees lost. I am rather enjoying myself!!
And when did Lofton become such a great hitter? He did nothing for us!!
Indians rocking…
I’m starting to think we accidentally signed James Lofton back then. That would explain a lot.
Lofton stealing just like Willie Mays Hayes.
Do they send Bryd back out there? Go batter to batter? He is sitting a long time.
I feel a little better about our series, considering how they are handling the soxs too.
I can’t wait to start in on the Sox fans if this goes 3-1.
They loved to repeat the ‘this ain’t 1978′ mantra over & over as the Yanks came down the stretch.
Well guess what, this ain’t 2004 either.
SJ, you dont get out much do you?
To claim that the yankees are footing the whole bill is wrong. The city/state (the tax payer) is paying the parking, public transport infrastructre and parkland, the total bill for that ends up being $450.
They wont pay property tax or rent. Dont have to pay into the revenue sharing and lord know what the naming rights will end up being.
“And when did Lofton become such a great hitter? He did nothing for us!!”
Was he given a fair chance by Yanks or the manager?
I LOVE IT!!!
if the red sox lose this game, they technically would have lost a best of 5 to cleveland in 4 games too… they just beat a banged up angels club. I’m not impressed.
At least Dice-K proved to be worth $100 million.
I wonder if the Indians play against the Red Sox is influencing the Yankees thinking on Torre. So far, Boston hasn’t fared much better than us. Maybe it looks less like a fluke and more like Cleveland just has the hot hand.
Midgames,
It is amazing how you think that Yanks have no limit on how much they can spend. Do you know what thier annual revenues are from all sources?
SJ44, I usually find you to be the most insightful, fact-based, hard-hitting commenter here. But I have to say: The Yankees are richer than God. Fact. And if they’re willing to pour millions into resigning A-Rod–and with the new stadium coming, they will–my Lord, believe me, they couldn’t care less about splitting hairs with the money it’ll take to get Torre back if that’s what they want. Your “debt service payments” / “taxable and non-taxable bonds” / “banks/bond firm requirements” talk is impressive. But anyone (not saying you necessarily) who thinks the Yankees won’t reap benefits or is “taking a chance” they might not see profits in 2019 has zero sense of history and no idea what this franchise pulls in cash every year. Yes, they need to be fiscally responsible. But management knows they’ve sitting on a chash cow that impresses the Vatican.
SJ, Very insiteful comments going back to the last thread…
Migames,
Are you Torre’s agent? I thought one gets paid based on performance, not on what his company is worth. Money or no money the time has come for change. Mattingly surrounded by the same staff minus Guidry and Kerrigan adding Mazzone, Mazzilli, and Eiland would give Donnie Baseball a whole lot of shoulders to lean on. Anyone of us could manage the team with that kind of back-up and all the resources that the Yankees have to offer. The Dynasty of the 90s is gone, it is time to build a new one with youth and new leadership. The Yankees are doing this at the Top it is time to do so on the field.
my point is. that to use how much torre makes is silly. 7 million is not that much for the yankees as opposed to other teams. Thats all im saying
Hey folks. I hope you keep torre. He’s a good man.
Just for arguments sake, when yankee fans complain about trolls coming here, one of your main commentators, dr. acula, is at survivinggrady making an ass of himself. My point, I guess, is don’t complain about trolls here when you have your own.
Of course, he seems really young, so maybe that’s an excuse.
He did play in over 80 games for us and had 18 rbi!!! So while he didn’t play every day he did play!
Anyone besides me stopped following the “Rich Yankees versus Poor Yankees” chatter long ago?
Is any one else experiencing with the blog same as I do. Until I post something, I do not get to see what others are posting.
>> I wonder if the Indians play against the Red Sox is influencing the Yankees thinking on Torre. So far, Boston hasn’t fared much better than us. Maybe it looks less like a fluke and more like Cleveland just has the hot hand. >>
Very possible.
I don’t know Sabathia has hardly impressed me this post-season. If he remains a free-agent after the ‘08 season, I hope the Yankees don’t plan to spend exorbitant sums of money to sign him. I’d much rather see them snare Santana, if both are options.
By the way, no reason to feel guilty about rooting against the Red Sux and Lice-K. With the arrogance and pettiness, the Rex Sux troll who frequented this site during the year exhibited, I take great pleasure in seeing them suffer.
If they’re standing on the ledge, then I’m the first volunteer in line to nudge them.
Love to see the Tribe clinch and Beckett get his ass kicked the same night.
Although their eyes are different, doesn’t Delcarmen look like Gagne on the mound? He’s even starting to pitch like him. And the carnage ends. I’m impressed with Byrd tonight. I’ll be even more impressed if the Sox come back down 7-0.
the funny thing is i work at a nonprofit. I make no money
All im saying, dont pitty the yankees for giving 7 million to their manager. The yankees can afford it
Hey, Jack
Do us a favor and run back to that blog. While you’re there, tell Dr. Acula to come back over here. Thx.
Migames, I dig the picture on your blog of Mattingly and Boggs. I had that same picture when I was a kid growing up in the mid-1980s. I bought it at a shop in Cooperstown, say, 1985 or 1986.
Now it’s time for Paul Byrd to go, hopefully.
Mel, that is quite a trade. No future considerations? No blogger to be named later?
B2B Homers! Stop that, Paul!
That Cash cow was built on sound business decision making, Keeping Torre around at 7 million per does not qualify. A-Rod will pay for himself if you believe Boras…I do not usually subscribe to his theories. However, on this one he may be telling the truth as evidenced by the additional 500,000 plus fannies in the seats every year since A-Rod donned pinstripes. So spending an ungodly sum of money for A-Rod would be a sound business decision. Especially when you add the extra value he delivers to the YES network.
it took my like 3 season to finally accept boggs in a yankee uniform. That was the wierdest of them all
Travis,
lol. We’ll just eat salary. Money is no object here.
Hey Pete, heard you on ESPNews tonight. You really seem to be becoming their go to guy on the Yankees. Good job.
BBFan,
I don’t know what you’re experiencing, but for the first time here there’s a lag on the comments. Usually the comment you typed shows up when you hit “Submit Comment”. Now it doesn’t show up until you refresh after submitting. Strange, huh?
Now Wedge is bringing in Jensen Lewis. I’ll tell you what, that kid was really bringing it against the Yankees in Game 3 of the ALDS. That was really the first time that I had seen him pitch. His stuff was nasty.
Bob,
What did Pete say? Jack better call back Dr. Acula, he’d have video up in no time.
Back-to-back-to-back jacks. Chase Wright warming in the bullpen.
is chase wright pitching for the indians?
Back to back to back HRs for Boston. un freakin believable…
People need to wake up with this Joe Torre stuff really. How many times are we going to say well the Yankees didn’t win this season, I guess Joe will be fired. This team needs a new direction and Donnie or Girardi should take over as manager. Please, I’m sick of hearing what Torre has done with the arguably the greatest Yankee teams ever (98, 99). What has he done when he has to do some managing? The team looks great in the regular season then when the playoffs come they play totally different. They don’t steal, they don’t bunt, and they sit back and wait for a homer. Also, I like Torre a ton as a person, but his time is long overdue. The Yanks are getting younger and you got to start thinking about the future, Torre will be gone someday and I think its time now.
great….i hate fox
Manny deserves to be plunked for that at bat.
Yankees are taking their time to make the most informed decision they can regarding an important aspect of the 2008 team AND the “ripple effect” of that decision…A WEEK…they are taking A WEEK !!! SHAME ON THEM ! LOL ! too funny….If they take until midnight on 10/31 to make the decision…SO WHAT ???….Torre is twisting in the wind ?…my @$$ ! PETE…YOU ARE TWISTING IN THE WIND ! Mellow out, Jimmy, the world does NOT revolve around the Yankees ( as much as I personally would like it too ! )
By the way Pete, It’s nice to have this Blog back….
Quick question- Manny was posing again, why do you pose when your home run only brings you to within four runs? The unwritten rule calls for a brushback pitch the next time that he’s up, but the umps won’t allow that, but they will allow hitters to pose after home runs. That makes no sense to me.
Man, the Red Sox suck – I so wish we could have had a shot at them.
Someone on the Red Sox needs to talk to Manny about not being a complete jerk.
J-Dawg,
I agree, but the Indians need to focus on winning the series. Can’t get caught up in brush backs or hitting batters when a World Series appearance is on the line. I bet Cleveland files it in the memory bank and maybe buzz Manny next year.
I am having the same problem mentioned earlier – the blog comments don’t update until I post something insightful.
I am watching the sux game… the announcers are laughable.. Buck said the imminent superstar Jacoby Ellsbury. I think he will be a good player but after about 50 AB’s I would not call him a future superstar. He also is bragging about the red sux minor leagues and how many players on there roster they have developed; I count about 7 players max…..
these guys are dumb and uninformed…
Am I the only one that’s taking a perverse pleasure in that Youky error?
YankeeJosh- You’re right, but it just bugs me when he does that. I just think that it crosses the line and is somewhat unprofessional, but that’s just my opinion. Of course if Cleveland holds on and wins the series all is forgotten!
J-Dawg,
I agree completely with you. That was particularly bad by Manny, especially since his team was down FOUR runs in a BIG playoff game. But making a big deal of it would lead to nothing good.
Pete’s mention of the somber black cars and long faces says something. On top of seeing a picture of Hank whose expression looks like at least 50 people died.I mean really bad–I can’t even look at it. You don’t go around looking like this if anything is rolling along. They are acting like it’s a funeral because with all the public support they’ve allowed Joe to receive, it will be.
SJ44 – Just curious why you don’t have your own blog? It would be interesting reading.
when it comes to personnel, sometime the yankess don’t know what they have till they don’t have it. witness the miggy/betemit deal. with miggy one knew what they had and he gave all of it. wilson, the book is still out, but i’m not yet impressed. losing miggy i think hurt the yanks. i would be real careful what i did with torre. they treated miggy poorly, and for one i don’t know why. aside from a bit of pop, and i mean a bit in his bat, wilson will have a difficult time just carrying miggys jock strap. i give up.
_Am I the only one that’s taking a perverse pleasure in that Youky error?_
wow, i was going to say which one, but apparently he didn’t get one for dropping a foul ball
rover, i’m pretty sure miggy only had a 1 year contract anyhow. we have a wilson contract a few more years.
i have to think that the indians beating the snot out of the Redsox is helping Torre’s chances as much as anything.