Mattingly would serve if called
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 16, 2007 
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Don Mattingly’s agent, Ray Schulte, is denying a report that his client told the Yankees he wasn’t ready to manage. The story was initially in the Star-Ledger of New Jersey.
“It’s not true,” Schulte said. “I talked to Don and he has no idea where that came from.”
Schulte said Mattingly wants Joe Torre to return. But if not, he is prepared to manage the team.
Mattingly made it clear last week that he wanted to manage. But he also said in strong terms that replacing Torre under these circumstances was not what he wanted. “It’s a no-win situation,” he said.
It’s anybody’s guess as to what is going on behind the scenes. But I’m sure Mattingly and many of the players have told the Yankees they want Torre back.
Schulte also released this statement:
“Please be advised that recent reports my client informed the Yankees that he is not ready to manage and uncomfortable replacing Joe Torre is completely false, totally fabricated and took Don completely by surprise. The Yankees are currently meeting in Tampa to discuss future organizational plans. If and when a decision is made concerning Joe’s future Don will respond, at that time. In the meantime, he wants what is best for Joe and the Yankee organization!”
If he doesn’t take the job now and Torre is offered a one year deal how is it any different around this time next year when Torre is out the door and Mattingly is the replacement? Your still replacing Torre.
Bobby Valentine or Joe Girardi, please!!! Dave Eiland or Leo Mazzone for pitching coach.
Jax–
Could not agree with you more this has been my problem with this whole thing. Eventually Torre is gone be it today, tomorrow, next year or 3 years from now. No matter what someone is going to have to replace him and whomever that is is going to have the same issues today, tomorrow or 3 years from now.
The whole thing makes no sense
Bobby Valentine? No thanks.
I’m happy with Joe coming back. I’d also be happy with Mattingly or Girardi (I prefer Donnie). But please, no Valentine or La Rusa.
Has Joe Torre even said he wants to return?
I wonder if Mattingly and his agent have been already told that he is the manager this up comming season. For the agent to come out and say that makes me think that they have made their decision and Mattingly is trying to be politically correct,being that he worked under Torre.
Its time for a new voice. Im not sure if that person is Mattingly, I would consider Pena for the job. He helped Posada last year and his teams in K.C. seem to play hard for him. No matter who it is, there needs to be a new man in charge. Players are too comfortable playing with Joe and reflect no emotion just like their manager.
No Valentine. NO.
One guy that s/b considered for pitching coach down the line is Scott Aldred. Look at the job he has done for Charleston in 2006 and Trenton in 2007.
What makes anyone think Torre would want the job – especially after all of this nonsense? Plus, why would he take a cut in pay for one of the most difficult jobs in professional sports? He’s got four world series rings to show in his 12 years, and was three outs away from his fifth title during the 01 campaign. If I’m Joe T. I say, thanks, but no thanks and move on. He would do exceptionally well in a small market where just playing 500 ball is good enough.
I still believe Torre is gone. Yesterday Girardi decided not to go on the radio which he is scheduled to do every Monday. Maybe something is up. Despite what Mattingly reported as saying I still feel Torre’s gone. Girardi could be the guy who knows.
Y no Bobby V?
“He would do exceptionally well in a small market where just playing 500 ball is good enough.”
Really? That’s kind of funny because if you actually knew what you were talking about you’d realize that joe torre was a mediocre manager for years before he came to the yankees. Only with a huge payroll did he find success.
Getting curiouser and curiouser
Dan,
Who was the manager of the Ted Turner’s when they got to the playoffs on 1982(Hint: He used to be manager of the Mets once upon a time)? So while he wasn’t Miller Huggins, he wasn’t that bad either.
Jax,
Maybe there is something going on with Girardi. For him to pass up a couple of Manager spots on other teams,tells me that he must have been told that he would be next. But I wonder if they said the same thing to Mattingly and how the person who doesnt get it will react.
*I’m throwing my chips in for the WILDCARD COM’ON JOE GIRARDI FOR 2008 YANKEES SKIPPER !!!*
I never believe any story that begins with, “A friend of (insert subject) said….”.
If that person was really a “friend”, why would he/she tell a reporter something about this situation? Especially something that doesn’t cast Matttingly in a good light?
I don’t buy any of it. If he’s offered the job, he will take it, IMO.
Why should Torre take a paycut? Its probably the only way he will have a shot at keeping the job.
If he is making TWICE the money as the second highest paid manager in the game, he has to be able to get out of the first round of the playoffs. If he can’t, its hard to justify that kind of money, regardless of how tough the job may be.
He got the last contract based on what he accomplished in the past. Over the last 3 years, does anybody really think he deserves a raise?
If you were writing the check, its pretty tough to justify 7 million bucks a year for any manager, regardless of what they have done in the past.
Its a “today” business and, today, Joe Torre is not a 7 million dollar a year manager.
If he manages somewhere else, he won’t get anywhere near 7 million a year. Why should he get it in NY?
Use the money to upgrade the roster.
P.S. my 2nd choice would be Tony Pena he deserves a shot and is liked by this roster
“What makes anyone think Torre would want the job – especially after all of this nonsense? Plus, why would he take a cut in pay for one of the most difficult jobs in professional sports?”
please. he makes $7M. the second highest paid manager makes $3.5.
if the Yankees paid him $4.5M, he’s make 30% more than the next highest paid manager.
his last contract was ridiculous and he should get a paycut if he comes back.
efforts are underway to dig up the mummified corpse of Billy Martin to return for a 6th stint as manager
i’ve said this before, but 7 mil is peanuts compared to the top paid managers/coaches of other sports. i think someone mentioned phil jackson is at 10/yr.
maybe peanuts is too strong a word, but stil…
I”m so glad the blog is back to normal!!
I think we should give the pc job to Dave Eiland. He did a great job with the kids, and cosidering the fact that our rotation will be made mostly up of kids, I think it would be a good move.
“i’ve said this before, but 7 mil is peanuts compared to the top paid managers/coaches of other sports. i think someone mentioned phil jackson is at 10/yr.”
What difference does Phil Jackson’s contract make? Joe was paid double the next highest manager in baseball, and I don’t think he’s worth that kind of money.
he does make 7 million, but who offered that money? Its like Torre is being blamed for an accepting a great offer
Pete –
If white smoke comes out of George’s ears, is that the sign that Torre stays?
And black smoke means it’s Donny?
Its not peanuts in baseball. Its double what other managers make. You don’t see that type of disparity in the NBA or NFL.
Some people say, a good manager wins about 10 games a year. If that’s the case, than there is no way Joe Torre, or any other manager for that matter, is worth 7 million a season.
Its a much different job than being an NBA or NFL head coach. Comparing a baseball manager to NBA or NFL head coaches, is an apples to oranges comparion.
“i’ve said this before, but 7 mil is peanuts compared to the top paid managers/coaches of other sports”
i know you did, but it still doesn’t make sense.
why would you use other sports as a comparison instead of the 29 other managers of professional baseball teams?
just an example bosco. i guess you can argue that NBA teams have some money to spend on coaches because of their salary caps, but i would think managing the yankees is a tougher, more demanding job that a basketball team.
Tony LaRussa = Daniel Larusso.
mattingly is too green to drive this hot rod . a great plan in my opinion would be to sign jow torre for 2 more years and then put mattingly in the driver’s seat .
rid the yankees of …
farnsworth
giambi
resign …
molina
arod
mo
posada
i realy have to give thought to keeping joba in the pen . i know alot of you hate this idea and think its crazy but how valuable is great , not good but great relief pitching ?
“he does make 7 million, but who offered that money? Its like Torre is being blamed for an accepting a great offer”
no one is “blaming” him. but if he wants to come back, it will have to be for less money. this is guaranteed.
for the record, his last contract was negotiated by Steve Swindal.
ART HOWE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody is blaming Torre for taking the offer. The person who made the deal, Steve Swindal, no longer works for the Yankees.
Its three years later, three more seasons to judge his performance, and its pretty clear he’s not a 7 million dollar a year manager.
I doubt the Yankees are going to make that kind of offer to him again.
If he wants to continue to manager, he’s going to have to take a paycut.
He has to decide where he wants to take his skills for the paycut he will have to take. That is, if he still wants to manage.
“i would think managing the yankees is a tougher, more demanding job that a basketball team.”
is it twice as demanding as managing the Red Sox?
that’s the more meaningful question.
Chris what do you do with Igawa? The Yankees didn’t pay 40 million for him to sit in the minors. Do you think we can find a team stupid enough to take him?
Chris what do you do with Igawa? The Yankees didn’t pay 40 million for him to sit in the minors. Do you think we can find a team stupid enough to take him?
mattingly’s coaches: Bobby Meacham 1st base TOny Pena 3rd base, wade boogs hitting coach, dave righetti ptiching coach, Joel Skinner bench coach. Bring back the 80′s donnie baseball
chris,
much less valuable than great starting pitching.
twice as demanding as managing the sox, no. but maybe francona is a chump.
i have no problem with them offering a paycut if they ask him to return. i’m just a little surprised by the outrage over 7
Dave Duncan has one more year on his Cardinals contract. No Duncan=No LaRussa.
LaRussa’s greatest strength is Duncan. Why would you hire him without Duncan? Makes no sense.
Being a baseball manager is not brain surgery. Don Mattingly has forgotten more baseball than most people will ever know. If chosen, he can manage the team.
Let’s not make this job out to be more than it is.
As far as “managing the clubhouse”, that takes care of itself with attrition.
Seems to me, the clubhouse was much easier to manage this year without bores like Randy Johnson and Gary Sheffield in it.
As the team continues to turnover and get younger, I doubt egos are going to play a big role in the clubhouse. Both Torre and Mattingly have the respect of the players. That’s all that matters.
Tony Larussa=hated by players, media,fans!!!no no no
Tony LaRussa=drunk
I bet we could find a lot of teams to take Igawa, but we are going to have to eat most of his salary so I think we should keep him and try to fix him. It sure would have been nice to have a good lefty starter besides Petitte.
why is everyone so content with settling?
how anyone can think that any of the listed candidates are better suited than the man who has led this team to the postseason for the last 13 years is beyond me.
mattingly is a huge risk right now and I would hate to see him have leave the organization on bad terms or worse.why not let him marinate for another few years before taking over.
i still believe it’s torre’s team, I only hope he wants to return.
Hey Pete did you join the party by the Yankees complex in FLA?
There is a really funny blog on the nyt website about it.
its true that torre was an average manager before he came to the yanks . that being said maybe the yanks are a perfect fit for torre . i think obviously it was . when thinking about torre’s tenure i think of his ability to handle lofty egos , clubhouses and of course the media frenzy every freakin’ night . couple that with the payroll and talent he gets . torre was a perfect fit . and still is
torre has 13 consecutive post season appearances and 4 world series rings . 6 world series appearances
keep in mind that the braves went to the post season 14 years in a row and only won the whole thing once .
Torre was pretty great at handling A-Rod in 2006. Dude is a great manager of people.
i think it shoudl be either bowa or tony pena. like donnie said, its a no win situation, so why not hire one of these energetic guys for a year or two, try and light a fire under these guys and bridge the gap b/w torre and mattingly. i think it would be importnat to keep one of these in house guys here to manage. that being said, i hope torre comes back.
I’m all for Mattingly becoming the manager now and I think the way he’s handling this Torre-nonsense right now is a good sign of how he could handle the press and the craziness in NY. I don’t understand why people say Mattingly is unprepared but Girardi would be perfect. Girardi had just one year of coaching experience as Torre’s bench coach before having one year of managerial experience. Mattingly has fours years of coaching experience, including the same year at bench coach that Girardi had. Sure, Mattingly’s green, but I don’t agree that Girardi is any more prepared to take over than Mattingly.
He’ll need a veteran bench coach though — I think they should bring Buck Showalter in as his bench coach. Mattingly had a good relationship with him as a player, Showalter is a very knowledgeable baseball mind, and Mattingly as manager would buffer Showalters’s hands-on approach that rubs the players the wrong way. I think that could be a great combo, like Torre/Zimmer was.
i have said in the past and i will say it again: Don Mattingly to Joe Torre is like Alan Trammel to Jim Leyland.
I love Don Mattingly but why wasnt mattingly given a job in the minor leagues as manager?
Jim Leyland or Mike Sciocia are actually someone who would be a good replacements for Torre.
Stupid Contracts
I just want them to make a decision so they can move on to re-signing some guys, and getting some free agents.
cant sign free agents till after the WS, I think we will find out about Arod/Pettite on Nov 10th. It will be an offseason of deadlines. 1st one will be if Torre leaves or not
If you bring Torre back, I bet Boss Steinbrenner gives him a salary that’s around $3 mil or whatever is around the highest paid for a manager and puts it in his contract he gets a $5 mil bonus if they win the WS.
Torre didn’t give up those runs against Cleveland he didn’t have a bat against that staff. However, we’re rebuilding w/ the young arms so maybe you go w/ a younger manager like Girardi or Mattingly. Torre had a great run w/ the Yankees but sometimes change is good.
i have a feeling that next years staff/team wont be so young as some of us believe. I got a feeling that 1 of the Hughes/Joba/IPK trio will be traded. Most likely IPK and that either Cano/Melky/Wang will also be traded. This team will still have a strong veteran presence….imo
I will start my comment by saying that it sure looks like Eiland has done a great job with the kids.
But if they promote him to pitching coach for the ML team, who will replace him in the minors? That’s not an idle question – he seems to be good at developing the young talent, and they’ll need to make sure that there’s someone just as good in the chain of succession. Especially since it seems the Yankees have made a commitment to go after good young pitching, especially via the draft.
As far as Mattingly vs. Torre vs. Girardi vs. whoever, I hope they offer the job to Torre for one more year, they tie up the relationship with a big shiny ribbon win or lose and then they move on. Mattingly has one more year under his belt and so his consideration as a replacement is more realistic, even if he doesn’t end up with job depending on who else might be available as well as how they’re inclined to think about Girardi. At this point, there is no outsider that looks any better to me, anyway.
“Jim Leyland or Mike Sciocia are actually someone who would be a good replacements for Torre.”
Mike Sciocia would be a terrible, terrible choise. Do you really want a guy that thinks the Angels offensive approach is effective?
I thought I read somewhere that even if Torre is not the manager, he still has a 7-year consulting deal built into his contract? Is that right?
Highly doubtful Cashman is trading any of the young players you mention Migames b/c look around. Arizona, Colorado and Cleveland have one of the youngest rosters and they have been very successful this year. The Yankees have too many veterans. The dynasty was made up of younger players and the same thing will be done for the Yankees to be more successful in the postseason
Give away Giambi please!!!
Pete, how much media coverage is in Tampa right now? Do some beat reporters get sent? Are they given any access or is it basically sitting around waiting until someone comes out with a statement?
bosco, who would you want? A manager that managed for one year and couldnt get allong with his owner and pitched his young pitching staff to the ground or someone who has never managed on any level?
“Torre didn’t give up those runs against Cleveland he didn’t have a bat against that staff.”
i agree with this point.
but he also did none of those things in 1996-2001.
it’s funny that the same people will argue that it’s the players’ fault when they lose but that he should get the credit when they win.
on one hand you are implying that the manager doesn’t have that much bearing on the game, yet want Torre to keep his job indefinitely b/c the players won 4 titles for him.
Joe, i agree with you and I hope that you are correct, but i think this team belongs to Hank and Hal now and they would want to do something….just my opinion. I hope they dont touch it
Check out either the nyt blog or newsday. They said there are tons of reporters there. And the kicker is they went to Legends Field and the meetings aren’t there. LOL
alot fo the guys on this yanks team i would like to trade are tough to trade due to lofty salaries . i guess nobody is impossible to trader just look at rj and what cashman got in return . but it does make it that much tougher to get a deal done . giambi is going to make 23 mill in ’08 . ridiculous . so much money for nothing
players not worth thier money …
giambi 23 mil
moose 11.5 mil
igawa 4 mil
clemens 25 mil pro rated
farnsworth 7 mil
“Mike Sciocia would be a terrible, terrible choise. Do you really want a guy that thinks the Angels offensive approach is effective?”
Well…yeah. Isn’t it?
“The Yankees have too many veterans. The dynasty was made up of younger players and the same thing will be done for the Yankees to be more successful in the postseason”
it was a mix. just like next year’s team will be a mix.
Boggs
Hayes
Cone
Fielder
Wetteland
Stanton
Davis
Raines
Clemens
Wells
Key
Duncan
Knoblaugh
O’Neill
there were PLENTY of veterans around in 1996-2001.
Yeah, we did have a good mix of veterans and young players in the late 90′s. I just think you need younger players involved w/ the Yankees going forward. You can insert a young player at 1B and have him platoon w/ Doug M. In 2009, you hope you have Tabata ready (probably a stretch) after his surgery healed his hand / wrist, or maybe Austin Jackson if he continues his development. More than likely Tabata and Jackson won’t be ready until late 2009, but you never know.
funny article just flashed on my bloomberg about joe torre, basically saying they need to keep him for his help to the teams bottom line:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....XZ5XpFF41k
Lots of players are coming off the books after next year and 09. Giambi,Mussina,Pettitte(if option is picked up),Abreu(if option is pick up),Matsui,Farnsworth,Damon.
“Well…yeah. Isn’t it?”
His aggressive style just leads to wasted outs. We’re better off playing the way we do now, and the results speak for themselves.
Runs Scored:
2007:
Yankees – 968
Angels – 822
2006:
Yankees – 930
Angels – 766
2005:
Yankees – 886
Angels – 761
It’s my sincere belief that any person believing Donny Baseball, Joe Girardi, LaRussa, or anyone else available out there is better suited to manage the Yankees in 2008 has to either crazy, brain-dead, drunk, or all three.
That’s not to say Torre is perfect. He isn’t. But even with his imperfections, he’s STILL the best candidate for the job.
And great point up above there: How is it Donny gets serious consideration from ANYONE, from fan to upper management, to be the manager of the Yankees after being a bench coach for ONE YEAR?!? It’s insanity, people. Insanity.
As far as Igawa,we actually do have someone that will take over all the contract. The Padres claimed him this season but Cashman didnt make a deal. He might revisit it in the offseason and not have to pay any of the remaining contract.
“bosco, who would you want? A manager that managed for one year and couldnt get allong with his owner and pitched his young pitching staff to the ground or someone who has never managed on any level?”
I want Mattingly. He’ll be molded by Cashman and just be a puppet for him, which is exactly what we need. It’s about time we let someone that has a clue run the team.
IF Joe Torre doesn’t return, my money is on Joe Girardi. Anyone who says his only qualification is one year of managing has never listened to his in-game coverage. He knows the game and as a catcher, already has game handling experience. Playing the game a long time, even playing well, does NOT make a good manager. If Donnie was so good, he would have advised Joe to take the team off the field during the bugfest. Joe Girardi has one of the best baseball minds around. And he’s not so laid back. We need some fire on the bench! (Good fire, that is)
I would also love to see either Dave Eiland or Dave Righetti as pitching coach, Gator’s gotta go. Great pitcher, not so great coach.
How many days til pitchers and catcher????
In the past, many year end Yankee meetings have been held at Bern’s Steak House in Tampa. Legends Field is to put the finishing touches on items of discussion.
Dave Righetti has been the pitching coach for the SF Giants for 8 years. Unless they’ve had a change of heart, he’s probably not available, I would guess he’s probably pretty comfortable there.
There’s nothing wrong with having an incentive laden contract for a field manager. They’re not bound under rules of the Players Association.
Give Torre a $4M contract with an addional $1M for winning the ALCS and $2M for the big prize.
He’ll never get an offer like it elsewhere.
G.R. -
There’s 121 days before pitchers and catchers report to Legends Field give or take a day.
4 MONTHS WOO HOO!!
Part of the problem here are the changes at the top of the Yankees Organizational chart. It seems that the two sons have been thrown into the breach sooner than expected and possibly against their will. Maybe George’s health has taken a turn for the worse. Anyway, while they are feeling their way, and determining each other’s roles, they have some major decisions to make.
The next few days should be very interesting.
People People ,Larussa is bad news for Ny,not a good fit. Torre and Larussa both, on respective teams “Same” amount of time ,Larussa backed into postseason last year and finally won after 11yrs. Torre” already had” 4 WS rings. Look at the amount of wins Larussa has,and he just got the 2 WS,barely!!!!! Yankees can keep Torre and do better than that.If you know any cards fan,they will never say a kind word about him,ever. St louis want him gone.When LARUSSA is in front of the media,he’s condescending and snide. No No No to Larussa,Please Yankees!
Supposedly it was Larussa’s camp floating that out there, no one from the Yankees wants him.
Hallelujah,Jennifer!
Good, LaRussa is garbage and the NY media will eat him up. At least if he came to NY he would not have to worry about getting a dui with all the cabs and the subway here.
ah back to my regularly scheduled blog reading
Italian Greco,awwwh come on man!!!
JD, good call.
for what its worth, Rob Neyer said he had heard that if Torre’s out, Girardi is in.
IMO, would take out the entire staff, and offer it to Trey Hillman… then, offer a manager’s job to Mattingly at one of the lower levels to get him some real, in-game, managers experience.
RER,
For those that aren’t familiar with it, Bern’s is one of the best steak restaurants in the country. I went there to celebrate my 25th wedding anniversary. BTW, I highly recommend the homemade macadamia nut ice cream for dessert.
having two sons of steinbrenner who showed no previous interest in being involved with the yankees doesn’t sound too awe inspiring. they don’t seem to have the competitive spirit that george had. if they did ,they would have been involved before now. besides being george’s sons , what quaifications do they have? i’m not aware of any baseball interest or experience that they have. i’d rather have new ownership with a highly competitive well financed owner in charge. despite what the family says, when george passes on , i’m sceptical that the steinbrenner family will keep control of the team.
i’ve said this since the spring, but i don’t feel that the yankees ownership and management is in the same league with cleveland and boston. if george were healthy, it’d be a different story, but he isn’t .
“i’ve said this since the spring, but i don’t feel that the yankees ownership and management is in the same league with cleveland and boston. if george were healthy, it’d be a different story, but he isn’t .”
Cashman is definitely on the same level as Shapiro and Epstein and Steinbrenner (or whoever signs the checks these days) is still willing to spend more than everyone else. I’m not really sure what your issues are with the management.
Donnie’s my favorite player of all time but making him manager would be a mistake.
When’s the last time a star player (much less an icon) came back to successfuly manage the team where he made his bones? I can’t think of one, though plenty have tried and walked away bitter (see: Alan Trammel.)
Twenty years of people throwing bouquets at you does not prepare you for the ups and downs of managing a ballclub and the constant nitpicking of NY’s insatiable press.
To me, Donnie always seems offended when he’s asked even a mild question. He looked shell-shocked in the one post game interview he did this year (when he filled in for Torre) and even the way he’s handled things this week seems at best uncomfortable. (He needs a spokesman to issue the statement Pete posted above?)
Girardi’s the tailor made successor. Smart overacheiver as a player, experienced handling pitching, has a history with the club and many of the star players, did a solid job in Florida and yet also had some humility shoved down his throat with the firing, honed his media savy in the booth this year, what’s not to like?
What made Joe Torre a successful manager from ’96 – ’00? A middle/long relief corps of Ramiro Mendoza,Mike Stanton,Jeff Nelson and Graeme Lloyd.
What made Joe Torre an unsuccessful manager from ’01 – ’07? A middle/long relief corps of Felix Heredia, Tanyon Sturtze, Steve Karsay,Paul Quantrill, Kyle Farnsworth and Scott Proctor.
Yes, Joe Torre overuses the hot hand in the bullpen. But please take into consideration that there has been little quality to choose from lately.
In ’98 no reliever pitched more than 67 games (Stanton).Graeme Lloyd worked 50 games,Nelson worked 45 games and Mendoza pitched 34 times out of hte pen. In the last 6 years he has not had the depth that would allow him to split the work up more evenly.
Torre doesn’t acquire the players, but he sure has been dealt a crummy bullpen to work with lately.Give him 4 quality arms to work with and he’s genius all over again.
Drive 4-5
Torre had 4 first ballot Hall of Famers, the CY Young runner-up, the best catcher in the sport, one of the best lefties, up-and-coming stars at 2nd and CF, $40M worth of veteran outfielders, and 2 of the best pitching prospects in the game. Sorry, he wasn’t outgunned.
The D Train,
Thanks! I needed that!
randyhater,
I agree, totally!
Drive 4-5,
Excellent post!!!
Both of George’s sons were involved in the baseball business in the early 90′s. As the families holdings in the hotel and horseracing busineses increased, they gravitated to those areas.
They are both very, very sharp and very competitive. Take a look at how both grew their families entities in those two competitive areas before judging their business acumen.
Their best trait (unlike their dad in his heyday) is they don’t make emotional decisions. They are consensus builders. Its how they have run the other family businesses and I assume they will bring that same trait to running the Yankees.
“I’m not really sure what your issues are with the management.”
management starts at the top and goes down through the organization. the gm is just a part of an organization. go on mlb,com and take a look at cleveland’s organization. take a look at boston’s. i just don’t see the yankees as cutting edge.
the indians won more games than the yankees with a payroll almost 2/3′s less. you really think the yankee organization is that well run? i don’t.
randyhater,
I respectfully disagree. Two of the first ballot Hall of Famers you refer to are ages 37 (Mo)and 45 (Clemens). Both are passed their prime and showed it at times.
The only pitching prospect who pitched anything near their potential was Joba.
Our $40mil outfielders include 2 players in their 30′s that need a strong ’08 to show that they are not past their prime ( Matsui and Damon).
Who were the lefty set up men in ’04,’05,’06 or ’07 that compare to Stanton and Lloyd in their prime? Who would you rather have pitch the 8th inning… Kyle Farnsworth or Jeff Nelson?
sj44-
details please. it’d be nice to have something more than just you saying they’re sharp.
my feeling is that they were so disinterested in the yankees that they haven’t been involved since according to you, the early 90′s. why the sudden interest? it looks like by default they are going to be in charge. i don’t see the strength in them as owners because of this disinterest.
How is Boston’s organization “cutting edge”?
They didn’t even make the playoffs last year. This year, they spent a ton of money on an average japanese pitcher, JD Drew and Julio Lugo.
It doesn’t take a lot of brains to spend over 200 million bucks, which was the money spent on Dice-K (counting the posting fee), Drew and Lugo.l
Two of their last 3 first round picks (Hansen and Bard) have been busts.
With all that “cutting edge” work, they barely won the AL East, almost blowing a 14 1/2 lead in the process, and beat a beat up Angels team in the ALDS.
Not exactly cutting edge.
No team in baseball has the young pitching the Yankees now possess. Nobody. Three years ago, they didn’t even have a farm system. Now, its one of the Top 5-6 in the game.
Wouldn’t you say that’s progress?
Rome wasn’t built in a day. They have certain contracts that aren’t easily moved and have to play out before moving on with certain players.
They have made major organizational strides in the last two years. Pretty significant, if you ask me.
They are using their financial clout to do the impossible…rebuild and compete at the same time.
This year, we saw the early returns on that work with the success of the young pitchers. They have more pitching and (finally) some position players who are close to being able to contribute at the ML level.
There is nothing wrong with the organization. Its just transitioning.
“Torre doesn’t acquire the players, but he sure has been dealt a crummy bullpen to work with lately.Give him 4 quality arms to work with and he’s genius all over again.”
but who isn’t?
so basically Torre can take a great team and win with it. that’s your argument for bringing him back?
i don’t get what is so impressive about that.
doesn’t a great manager find ways to win with LESS talent?
“There is nothing wrong with the organization. Its just transitioning.”
Amen.
i think randy had a point in that if you look at what the yankees have done from 2002-2005 to arrive at much of the current roster, you wouldn’t say the yankee organization was too smart. just rich.
but this is changing. and it’s changing fast. certain players like Clemens, Moose, and Pettitte were brought back to try to bridge the gap b/w the old and the new, and some worked out better than others. but there was a definite reason for bringing in those expensive vets on short term deals.
the payroll is going to go down. and cleveland’s is going to have to go up if they want to stay on top.
you are right in that cleveland’s 2007 looks a lot more impressive than the yankees’ 2007, but we’ll see how it compares in 2010.
the yankees will always have the highest payroll, and they SHOULD, but the gap will shrink, and the Yankees will be younger, better, and more exciting than the recent versions.
“the indians won more games than the yankees with a payroll almost 2/3’s less. you really think the yankee organization is that well run? i don’t.”
A lot of our payroll is the product of a previous regime. Cashman only wrestled complete control over the club after 2004. Just take a look at the recent drafts and the way players are being promoted throughout the system and tell me he’s doing a bad job. He’s made a few mistakes along the way (Igawa, Farnsworth, and the failure to properly address 1B are the glaring ones for me), but he’s also made some excellent moves. The Abreu trade was a complete steal. I bet the Phillies still can’t sit right from that one. He also hasn’t squandered any of the young talent we’ve developed through bad trades and was able to move some of the bad contracts (Wright and RJ) and get something of value back. Cashman has a plan and he’s positioning us for great success in the future. What more do you want of him?
They got into other areas of the family business. That doesn’t mean they weren’t interested in running the Yankees.
When George was in his heyday, nobody was running the Yankees other than George. That produced mixed results.
The sons, more than anybody else, knew those ground rules. Its probably why they didn’t want to waste their time working with the team in those days.
The last 3 years, there has been a gradual shifting of day to day management of the team from George to the sons and Steve Swindal.
Randy Levine, Lonn Trost, Jean Afterman and Brian Cashman also handle a lot of the day to day operations of the team. In George’s heyday, they basically had George and the GM De Jour running the team. Its a much different business now.
Even if Swindal didn’t get divorced from Jennifer Steinbrenner, both Steinbrenner sons would have been involved with the Yankees. To the degree they are now? Probably not.
However, as long as the Steinbrenner Family owns the Yankees, the final decisions on the team will have a Steinbrenner making the final call on those matters. Its just how the family does its business. Its that way in all of their other companies.
If they didn’t want to run the Yankees, they wouldn’t do it.
Neither man is being forced to run the team. They could have hired a CEO to run the team and still kept it under family control. They chose not to.
If you look at how they are dividing their roles in the organization, its clear they are doing it based on their knowledge in each area and not ego. That tells me this has been in the works ever since their sister filed for divorce from Steve Swindal. Its not a hurried or rash decision.
The Yankees are now a billion+ dollar business. No one person can run it. Even George in his heyday couldn’t run the present day Yankees. Its too big.
From a fan perspective, they want to know if the team will remain competitive. We have seen no signs it won’t be.
With a new stadium on the horizon, I doubt they are going to change the way they do business.
They may work smarter (no more dumb contracts to one dimensional players) but, I doubt they will become the DRays from a fiscal standpoint.
They will continue to spend money, IMO. They will just do it in a smarter, less reactive manner. That is, if the brothers bring their previous ways of doing business to running the Yankees.
“Cashman has a plan and he’s positioning us for great success in the future. What more do you want of him?”
i think you’re missing my point. i’ not picking on cashman at all. he only has one year left on his contract. he is not the yankees organization. john henry is worth 4-5 billion dollars and he is relatively young. he is fiercely competitive and obsessed with baseball. i don’t see the steinbrenner kids being able to compete well with henry. that’s really my point.
time will tell.
Look at Eric Wedge and the Indians in ’07.
Earlier in the year they were depending on pitchers like Tom Mastny and Aaron Fultz, whom the Yanks crushed. They add Raphael Perez and Jensen Lewis into the mix in July and suddenly their bullpen became much improved and the team started winning. The Yanks improved similarly when Joba took over Farnsworth’s innings.
Eric Wedge is also a moron, for what it’s worth.
John Henry’s net worth has taken a huge hit in the last year.
His largest single investor in his hedge funds took out all his money, dropping the value of those funds by over 50% and leaving a lot of unhappy investors.
He is also in the process of getting a divorce. Since his soon to be ex-wife is challenging the validity of their pre-nup, that is expected to be an ugly and expensive deal for him.
Fact is, John Henry is not using personal funds to run the Red Sox. They are using the profits (which are large) of the Red Sox to make their financial decisions.
The Yankees, more importantly the YES Network, are very profitable entities.
Money won’t be a problem for the Yankees, regardless of who is running the team.
Eric Wedge has always had the reputation for being a poor game manager and yet his team is on the verge of playing in the World Series. That’s my point. Great bullpens make for great managers these days.
sj44-i’m glad henry has taken a hit if all that is true because the kind of money he had is hard to compete with.
even if henry is running the red sox with red sox money, he still has his money backing things up if things don’t go as planned. anyone who has run a business knows that having back up funding is huge even if you don’t use it.
i agree that the money will still pour in no matter who runs the team. how it will get used is the big question. the jury is out on the steinbrenner sons simply because they are unproven in baseball . how the questions and problems of the next few months play out will tell us all a lot of how competent they are.
Randy,
I don’t think there will be a lot of changes in terms of how the Yankees are run.
The younger Steinbrenners aren’t going gut the team, slash payroll, and not sign free agents.
I don’t think they will ever pay a manager 7 million dollars a year again. To me, that’s not a bad thing.
I think they will sign Posada and Rivera, regardless of who manages the team.
Arod? If he leaves, it won’t be because of money, regardless of the spin from his camp. It will be because he wants out. The Yankees will make him a huge offer. They just won’t beg, nor should they. No one player is bigger than the Yankees.
I think they will continue to pour a lot of money into their minor league system and in their Latin American and International scouting/player development. Not because they are cheap but because its good business and the right thing to do.
The only significant change will be fewer statements from Howard Rubenstein. I think one of the brothers (probably Hank) will speak for the family on Yankee matters.
I expect them to run the business as its been run in recent years, with less bombastic statements and in a consensus building way, with the top team executives given a lot of autonomy to do their jobs.
SJ44 -Great posts! Thanks!
SJ44: “They are both very, very sharp and very competitive. Take a look at how both grew their families entities in those two competitive areas before judging their business acumen.”
HEY PETE!! I’d like to see an article about this. I’m not aware that anyone has done a piece on the business background and/or personalities of the two Baby Steins.
Donnie Baseball is politicking for the job.A real low class maneuver for the job, a job that he will fail at, if he gets it. Girardi on the other hand has been a model of class and decorum. Joe should probably go but not til you have a decent replacement. Personally I wanted him out after the Red Sux debacle. That seris showed that Joe had no idea about between the lines strategy. It also showed the world how important Zim was.