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The Yankees just announced that Joe Torre will not return as manager. He turned down a $5 million deal that included $3 million in incentives.
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on Thursday, October 18th, 2007 at 4:04 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings joined the The Journal News in October 2009, having spent the better part of seven years covering baseball in Scranton, PA. He is a graduate of the University of Missouri and an award-winning beat reporter and features writer. E-mail me at cjennings@lohud.com
Sam Borden is an award-winning journalist who joined The Journal News
and LoHud.com in January 2008. He covered the Yankees for the New York
Daily News from 2004-06, and has also worked as a columnist for the
Florida Times-Union in Jacksonville. E-mail me at sborden@lohud.com
Copyright © The Journal News, a Gannett Co. Inc. newspaper serving Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties in New York.
What???
Pete,
Do you think they will continue to negotiate or is this IT? You can’t blame Joe after the way he was treated.
Wow
What? Are you sure?! Why would he show up to turn down the extension?
I don’t believe it!!!!!!!!
Holy Schnikes!!!
Well, I wasn’t expecting THAT!
wow!
Now that is a surprise. Now I’m really sad.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
But why on earth would he reject this?!?
well, at least joe went out on his terms. it’s been a hell of a run. thank you joe!
Sounds like they low-balled him, wonder if it was a one or two year deal
….Well, talk about ‘WHA’…
WOW!!
WOW. Good for Torre!!
OH SNAP!
i’m shocked.
joe was treated like a dog and he wins
Go get ‘em, Joe. I’ll absolutely root for you with another team (unless it’s in the AL East).
Blessing in Disguise….
way to chase the money Mr Torre (never mind even the 5mill is 2 mill more than the 2nd highest manager)
I think Joe proved they wanted him back. I just can’t help but wonder if they will up the ante.
The Yankees don’t look so bad in this one now…but as I type this how will the rank and file react…this is going to be interesting.
good for him… its like a battered wife finally taking a stand against the yearly abuse.
that said, WTF?!
where does that leave mo and po?
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
NO!!!!
I wonder if he turned it down because of
a) the pay cut
b) the team option for 2009, or
c) the way this whole mass went down
That’s it. New manager in 2008. No more negotiations.
He turned the deal down. Gutsy move by Torre.
But, here is the way I look at it.
If you (the Yankees) think he is a good enough manager for your team, money shouldn’t be a big deal.
If you (the Yankees) don’t think he is the guy, then you go in another direction.
On the face of it, its seems to me they disrespected Torre with this kind of offer.
But, it is what it is and they now have to move on.
Things never end cleanly or nicely with the Yankees.
Thank Torre for 12 playoff season. He goes out on his own terms.
LOL as the Yankees Turn continues!!!
What a way to go out. Even in the end he stays classy.
I’m very sad that he won’t be returning but they should not have hung him out to dry like that.
Now lets’s see the dust settle and see who comes in and what players follow him out the door.
This was a way for both of them to look good. The Yanks never offered anything, they just said “Joe, we’re going to say this, and you’re going to say that. That way we both win.”
It’s gonna be weird next year.
Thanks Joe, time for a new beginning.
GOOD for FATHER JOE!
1050 Radio played the conference call. Torre was offered $5 million base, plus $1 million bonuses for each playoff round. If they made the WS, he would be guaranteed a base of $8 million for 2009.
And Torre said NO.
A battered wife? $5 mil plus $3 mil in incentives. Come on…you can’t blame the Yankees-its a fair offer and he declined. Good luck Joe-thanks for the memories and I doubt you’ll find anyone willing to pay you more.
After looking at the deal, I can see why he’d turn it down. It’s basically $2 million plus incentives, instead of $7 mil as he made last year. Seems they told him that he’d have to win a World Series to make less than he did last year. I can understand why he walked away from it – it’s an insult.
Seems that Steinbrenner and Co. dreamed this up to be able to say that Joe turned down an extension, rather than they fired him. They didn’t want him back, but didn’t want to endure the wrath of the fans either. So, they made him an offer he couldn’t accept. Sleazy.
But, I’ve been saying that the Yankees need a new manager, so that’s good. Joe deserved a better send-off than he got, though. He’s been nothing but class. Godspeed, Joe Torre.
He could have earned up to 8 million in incentives with the first deal. They haven’t specified the terms of the second proposal yet.
“lowballsed”?? You have to be joking. $5M is still more than any manager in baseball. How is being the highest paid person in your profession “lowballing” someone?
I am glad. Torre needed to go. This team needs a fresh manager. That means no Mattingly and maybe even no Girardi since he played with so many of them. I want someone not beholden to the “old guard”.
He had to know what the offer was. You mean, he got on a plane, went down to Tampa, said no thank you, and then walked away.
5 million with 3 million in incentives is disrespecting. Interesting take on the situation.
Shame Joes leaving, but it might be time.
We should have gotten rid of him on our terms.
WHat? I just told someone he was coming back. . . why would he turn down that deal? could the yankees offer him another one?
Joe’s gone senile. Time for the yanks to move on, hope it’s not primaDONna mattingly.
Ooops, my bad. I mis-understood the deal. Ignore previous post! :/
I’m not really agreeing with this hung out to dry thing. As it’s been said, it’s a business, they offered the guy 5 million a year, with incentives for more…he turns it down. Let’s see where he goes now. Maybe he’ll end up in Boston when the fire Francona tomorrow…
GOOD FOR JOE, THEY DANGLED HIM IN THE WIND THEN WANTED TO GIVE HIM A PAY CUT….WHAT A JOKE..
“After looking at the deal, I can see why he’d turn it down. It’s basically $2 million plus incentives, instead of $7 mil as he made last year. Seems they told him that he’d have to win a World Series to make less than he did last year. I can understand why he walked away from it – it’s an insult.”
yeah, making him earn his money.
what an insult.
players win, not managers! bring on donnie!
Wow, I am in shock. I am pleased that the organization offered him an extension. I believe, and I know there will be disagreement on this, that it was the right thing to do. I do give Joe credit for turning it down. I don’t know what his reasons where but I suspect he was tired of all their crap. I wish Joe all the best, though my wish is that he would be in pinstripes.
Joe Girardi has to be in the forefront at this point.
Shocking! Well, the Yankees come out of this without too much egg on their face. They still presented a pretty decent offer. However, give Torre credit for sticking to his guns and not accepting a pay cut. Look out if Boston looses tonight Torre might get a job in Boston quickly!
“I wonder if he turned it down because of
a) the pay cut
b) the team option for 2009, or
c) the way this whole mass went down”
I’m sure we will find out.
this is probably the best case scenario. Yanks FINALLY get to change, and dont look like schmucks for letting him go.
C’Mon Nathan!
Can’t blame Joe ONE BIT!
The Yankees set the bar at $7M last year — and now Joe is supposed to take one year at $2M guaranteed plus incentives that MIGHT take him back to only $3M???
And after they beat the crap out of him, cut his legs out from under him in the middle of the ALDS, then left him to twist in the breeze for nearly 2 weeks?
After what he has done for the team, the franchise and the city?
We’ll miss the hell out of you Joe, but WAY TO GO!!!
why would anyone want to take a one year deal?
I dont think Torre is the bad guy here. The team obviously had no respect for him if they only offered a 1 year deal with incentives. Basically, if the Yankees got off to a bad start, Torre would certainly be fired, and he would not reach his incentives, and would actually be taking a paycut. I dont blame Torre, I would want job security aka more than 1 year after all hes done. Good for Joe that he shoved it in Levine/Steinbrenner’s faces.
Now what happens, does posada, mariano and everyone else leave like they said since they love joe? interesting
Good for Joe. He went out on his terms. For all the $$$ the Yanks blow on everyone else, they want to low ball Torre!
You wouldn’t believe it.
Both EPSN AND EPSN 2 were _reported_ Torre had _accepted_ a new contract.
Oooops!
I really want Mr. Torre to come back, but you know what….serves them right for making him wait around for 2 weeks.
I hope they offer him a better deal. if they can give carl pavano 10 mill…..
This works for everybody. The Yankees can say they tried. Joe can say they didn’t respect him.
But I can’t imagine there will be an outpouring of sympathy for someone who was ‘insulted’ by a five million dollar offer. An offer that added more millions in the event that the team did what everyone expects it too.
I’m not sure what Joe was thinking. But hey, thanks for the memories. Onward and upward.
This may be a bit out there for you guys, but doesn’t this seem a little staged? Long wait, anticipation…bringing Torre down to Tampa and everybody thinks they’ve resigned him…then the surprising news that he’s turned it down.
Seems to me both sides save face…Yanks made their offer, Torre walks, now Pettite, Mo, Posada, and the likes know that the Yanks made their effort and Torre can let them all know they should go back to a new manager and blah blah blah
DAMN! I’m not happy about this.
Politically, this makes the next manager’s job easier, does it not? If Joe Torre is walking away, they cannot blame the new guy for getting the manager fired, so to speak.
so Torre is offered a deal to make him the highest paid manager in baseball by 43%, and he turns it down.
people say it was an insult and he was lowballed.
we’ll see how people react if A-Rod opts out for more money.
Bring in Girardi please!
yesssssssssssssssssss!
Per ESPN: $5 million, plus $1 million bonus for each, with vesting option for 2009 if Yanks win World Series.
Joe Torre must be a member of the teacher’s union, turning down a pay-for-performance contract like that.
The deal was not $2mill. The offer I heard described when WFAN played it: $5mill base + $1mill bonus for each round of the playoffs they make. So that means he could make up to $8mill for 2008 if they make it to the WS. They also said that if they made it to the WS, the option for 2009 would vest for $8mill.
Saucy – The NoMass guys are delirious I would bet.
Guess they gave him an offer he COULD refuse.
My guess was the option year – I doubt Joe wants to go through this whole mess again next year, and quite frankly, neither do I
Its $5million PLUS up to $3million incentives for a possible total of $8million. Not bad on the $ side. Just seems like Torre does not want to have to negotiate all over again just one year down the road. I think he would have taken less money for a three year deal.
Might as well go to the Dodgers and get away from Yankees management for a while and relax and enjoy sunny LA.
See who they get now.
The Yankees save face with a good offer and Torre is gone. A good day for Yankee fans. Sign girardi and move on.
Tony La Russa C’mon on DOWN!!
He’s given the players and a salary that would have been the highest in majors plus chance to earn far more and he turns it down. So be it. Its a valid offer and a good one too. He has to perform with that group and did not want the pressure. That’s his choice but this is not the Yanks bad. The rest of america has to perform or deal with consequences with far less of a guarantee. Welcome to the real world.
Remember he could have avoided this by getting past the first round any of the last 3 years because they would have extended him. Best of luck Mr Torre in your future. We love you and thank you. Now its time to embrace the next skipper.
“Seems to me both sides save face…Yanks made their offer, Torre walks, now Pettite, Mo, Posada, and the likes know that the Yanks made their effort and Torre can let them all know they should go back to a new manager and blah blah blah”
yeah. i think you are right.
Also Cashman says that he has been talking with Torre the past couple of days so none of this was done in secrecy or behind anyones back
Guys is sounds like the 3 million dollars in incentives is included in the 5 million. Meaning, he gets 2 million to be manager and then probably 1 mill for winning the ALDS, 1 mill for winning the ALCS and 1 mill for winning the WS.
Still being the highest paid manager plus incentives. And hes being disrespected. Whats wrong with that picture. The yankees showed class to listen to players and fans and give him another shot. The deal was more than resonable.
Maybe it was all planned for Joe to go and decline the offer and have it where he wasnt humiliated by a firing. At the same time the yankees showing the public that they made an effort. I quess we’ll never know.
Who’s advising Joe, Scott Boras? Now him and Bernie will have plenty of time to hang out together debating who the biggest victim is.
Thanks for the memories, Joe. Too bad you didn’t take this stand in the fall of ‘03.
I want Jeter’s reaction, now!!!!
How difficult will it be for Girardi or Donnie to accept an offer?
And how will this effect our ability to retain guys?
My guess is this gives Pettitte the guts to say No thanks to the player option. Coming back to NY without Torre for a final year is not an option for him.
“good for him… its like a battered wife finally taking a stand against the yearly abuse.”
Not sure that’s right. I’m seeing 5 mill to manage, one mill per round in the playoffs. Chump change, I guess.
GOODBYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!
Happy job hunting -only if you call Pittsburgh and Kansas City, the ONLY teams with openings for manager, cuz they’re sure not calling you.
The Yankees heeded the voice of reason and REAL YANKEE FANS LIKE ME knew they’d do us proud!!!
Now this team can move on with a new, different, and better way and vision.
Bring back Buck Showalter or hire Trey Hillman.
Even better: Bring back Showalter, hire Hillman as his bench coach/ manager apprentice, and reassign Mattingly to focus on one thing: TEACH MATSUI HOW TO PLAY FIRST BASE AT LEAST CAPABLY FOR 2008 ONLY. I’m not looking for prime Donnie or J.T. Snow, just a guy who could hold down the position for just a year before he moves to DH the next season (which I want to see Matsui do once the Yanks get rid of that loaf Giambi.)
2008 Yanks 1B: Matsui
2009 Yanks 1B: Mark Texiera (Matsui DH in his final year under contract)
Obviously, he did the childish thing by turning down a paycut he knew was coming, I don’t wanna hear he expected a year or more at what he made this year per year. He could’ve declared he wasn’t taking a paycut before he was offered it. The Yanks knew this and are privately celebrating that HE was the one who left the team with no class -he didn’t even meet with the media, just flew back home. COWARD!!!
I wonder if this was worked on behind the scenes. The Yankees look good *they tried*. Torre gets to walk…..
No one is happy, but at the same time, everyone is happy.
Ron it was made very clear
BASE salary of 5
then 1 million per each round of the playoffs for a possible total of 8 which is a million raise
THEN is they made it to the WS he automatically would get BASE of 8 the following year
This reminds me of the ending to that movie with LT in it “Any Given Sunday” It’s MATTINGLY TIME!
okay that didn’t work, i was quoting that from a poster up above and here is my response:
are you kidding me? he became a very rich man thanks to the yankees and was given an immense amount of talent to work with each year. to compare that to a physically abusive relationship is disgusting and ignorant.
Joe Torre will be missed. I’ll miss him, anyway. I’m sad he won’t be back. I await Joe’s statement on this situation, but I don’t expect any real information. He will handle it in the usual classy way he handles everything. You know, he’s had the same 10 days to think about what he wants. And no, he didn’t necessarily know what the offer was before he went to Tampa, and if he did, maybe he wanted the opportunity to finish things face-to-face.
this is going to ripple through the organization.
wonder how mo, jorge and andy react…
Where else is Joe gonna get that much money?? Crazy
We should all be this “disrespected” in life.
If he took the offer, he would still have been the highest paid manager in the game.
Its time for the team to go in a new direction. Unfortunately, these relationships, like some marriages, end ugly.
His weaknesses have outweighed his strengths as a manager in recent years. The job is more than just making nice with the media and placating egos.
Handling a pitching staff, in particular a bullpen, and game strategy becomes more important now that the game is so parity driven.
Clearly, those are two of his biggest weaknesses.
Nobody likes taking a paycut in life. However, the offer made by the Yankees was fair. If he hit the incentives, he actually would have made more money in 2008 than he made in 2007.
Now, he can try and get that kind of money on the open market. Good luck.
Here’s my E-mail to a friend from 3:45:
Hope they made a deal. If it was easy to do, they would have done it on the phone. If they wanted to cut his pay and tell him he would be on a short leash, then he might have told them to f themselves.
Oh well. Sucks to be right.
What the hell is Torres problem? Being the highest payed manager with the highest salary team with an all star at every position and making a million more than this yr if he wins the world series (which he is payed to do) isnt enough for him? Does he think he is getting more any where else because I highly doubt it? Good riddens Mr Torre! Finally the old dog is gone and we can get an actual manager rather than a father figure. Leyland would have taken Chamberlain out in that eighth and put in Mo when chamberlain seemed clearly bothered by those midges. Go lose in the playoffs with some other team!
Joe Gi-rar-di!!!
Joe Gi-rar-di!!!
Joe Gi-rar-di!!!
Not sure Joe actually qualifies as a ‘battered wife.’ Seven million dollars a year, many millions more in endorsements, a Hall of Fame career opportunity. All this for someone with precious few prospects when he was originally hired.
Maybe it’s more like Ivana Trump taking a stand against a cut in her monthly gem allowance.
Seriously…pull some of the scribes off Steinbrenner’s Driveway beat and have them track down the Captain of this team for a reaction.
i dont see how anyone would compare the teachers union to these torre negotiations – only a few million difference but i guess whos counting
gutsy call by torre, couldn’t this of been handled in a better way by the organization – they should name mattingly/girardi before the weekend is up
SAY IT AINT JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VERY SHOCKING NEWS
PLEASE JOE, RECONSIDER
NY LOVES YOU
I’m guessing that he wanted two years guaranteed. I can’t understand why they wouldn’t give that to him. That being said, they could always just fire him after that first year.
The Boss must be pissed if he understands what’s going on.
No. Base of $5M plus possibility of $3M plus vested option for 2009 if he made it to the World Series next year. That is not a lowball offer. Yankees did the right thing — they gave Joe the option to return. He said no.
I think that was a pretty fair offer. Guess Joe is sick of being on a big hook. Good luck Joe, enjoy your retirement.
Some of you are not getting the deal. It was 5mil PLUS 3 in incentives. He couldve made 8. I think this is exactly what the Yankees wanted. They wanted a fresh start, and knew how much Joe wanted to manage in the new stadium. They offer him a 1 year deal with a small paycut, because he would almost definitely get at least 6 mil. They figure that he will reject it, they win because they get to have a new manager, and they offered Torre what i see as a reasonable offer for a man who hasnt won a title in 7 years. Why does he deserve double the next highest paid manager. I wanted him back, but i think this is why the decision took so long- the Yankees were trying to dtermine how to avoid the fans ire and get rid of torre. They did it, offer him a decent deal that he was likely to refuse. Worst case, he accepts and you have a HOF manager for one more year.
“BASE salary of 5
then 1 million per each round of the playoffs for a possible total of 8 which is a million raise
THEN is they made it to the WS he automatically would get BASE of 8 the following year”
this is more than fair.
everyone crying about a “pay cut” is being ridiculous.
it’s not a pay cut if he wins the pennant.
as fans, why would you want him rewarded for NOT winning in the postseason. makes no sense.
bye Joe. you gave us a lot of great memories. thanks, but the time has come for some new blood.
This really just makes Joe look bad. If he could have made a base 5 with 3 million in incentives, if he wins it all, wouldn’t it mean he would get a $1M raise?
Pretty silly.
Sad day for Yankee fans… Thanks Joe for the great run!
Now I worry about our free agents..
Pooorrrr Joe, the Yankees are just evil! Offering him a cheap 8 million. Look if he found this to be a insult then his ego is a lot bigger than I thought. Time to move on, might be a good thing. Mattingly or Girardi? I know Mattingly is the favorite but I would like Girardi to get some consideration.
how much money does one man need? Sounds like Joe Torre and A-Rod are the same person these days….
The funny thing about the Torre to Boston speculation is that that Francona and Torre pretty much manage the exact same way.
Good for Joe.
He showed them that he is not their whipping boy.
He will not be out of work for long.
Again, I think it was the option year part of the contract. I seriously doubt he wants to go through this same BS next year. I know I wouldn’t.
No doubt at all that $5 million plus a possible $3 million in incentives is totally fair. That still kept him above market value and it was ludicrous to continue to pay him $7 million to lose in the ALDS.
Jimbo,
they’re handing out candy!
Sorry to see him go, but it was a fair offer. That said, he has every right to turn it down. Now let’s hire Donnie Baseball!!
That is the definition of a lowball offer. Giving him a 1 year deal leaves the door wide open for the Yanks to fire him at any point mid-season. Do you really think he wants to do with that speculation all year?
That then also creates this same circus next offseason that existed this offseason. Do you really think he wants to deal with that either?
If anything the Yanks should have offered 2 years, but to offer one year with a team option IF THEY WIN THE WORLD SERIES is very bush league.
Touche Torre, don’t put up with that nonsense offer. Even though I would love to have you back. Give him a lifetime contract!
So who does everyone think will be the next manager? Mattingly? Girardi? Anyone else?
The deal was for $5M guaranteed with up to $3M in incentives for a total of $8M if they make it to the World Series.
To those of you who think that the Yanks don’t have egg on their face: they wanted him back, made him a generous offer and he refused. The Boss huffed and puffed that Torre may not be back next year if they didn’t come back and beat LAA and still made him one hell of an offer.
Good job Joe! Way to stick it to the man.
May have been more than just the money. They may have cut him off from all decision making.
It could be about the money but we don’t know that. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. And money also equals respect. We may find out later at some point…. and who knows… it might not be over.
The man is 67 years old. Maybe he decided to retire. He’s made a lot of money over the past 12 years.
Are there two SJ44’s?
First SJ44 makes this statement at 4:09.
*SJ44
October 18th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
On the face of it, its seems to me they disrespected Torre with this kind of offer.*
Then SJ44 makes this statement at 4:20
*SJ44
October 18th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
We should all be this “disrespected� in life.
If he took the offer, he would still have been the highest paid manager in the game.*
I’m confused.
This is PATHETIC to see all of this going down in a cloud of egos and pettiness on BOTH SIDES. We fans deserve better than this. Shame on all of them. I support Joe – but he is BY FAR the highest paid manager in baseball with all the prestige of the city and the team and he has always taken a little indignity with grace as part of the job. The owners had to express their displeasure. Could they really offer the same salary and maintain the status quo? I don’t think it was a disrespectful offer – but it was clearly a well considered slight. What a disgrace all around.
This all has to be staged. I can’t imagine he didn’t know what was being offered. So I keep coming back to “why get on the plane”? What on earth was that conversation with Cashman on the plane about? Interesting theory on WFAN: someone threw him a curveball.
Are you KIDDING ME, Torre?
You turned down a GUARANTEED $5m and $1m per playoff round? Not only is that moronic, it’s offensive. You’ve consistently had one of the most talented lineups in baseball for SEVEN YEARS and you haven’t won a WS, and you have the audacity to turn down an EXTREMELY generous offer? Well, good riddance. I am truly shocked and disgusted that Torre would do this. Let’s go ahead and hire a real manager in Girardi at a more reasonable price.
How will the players react-The same way they always do. It’s called SHOW ME THE $. Yea, they might be pissed right now, but in the end the Yanks’s have the bucks to pay these guys.
Webb15,
the guaranteed offer was 5 mill… 3 mill (1 per playoff round) was incentive…
u gottob kidding me… thats a paycut.. Yes.. but still.. who else pays that much for a manager?
the next highest paid manager is at 3.6 mill
if he had the cajones.. he wud have taken it up and proved the Steins were wrong and gotten 8 mill out of it
thats a lot to leave on the table for a 68 y/o dude…
If he was going to reject a fair deal, he should have just retired immediately after the season and saved us all some time.
why in the world would the sox fire terry francona? people posting that the sox are going to fire francona and bring in torre are being ridiculous.
in any event, the red sox don’t bring in yankees castoffs – it’s the other way around (i.e., damon, embree, bellhorn, mientkiewicz, myers, etc.)
Two thoughts come to mind. As was previously stated, he would not have gotten on a plane to Tampa without knowing the parameters of the deal. So either he said FU to the Yanks for leaving him twisting in the wind, or else he went to get more years.
Either way, he is out, and it is going to be very interesting in the coming months.
If the president of my company (and yes, I understand that a baseball manager is essentially middle-management) had taken my company to the Fortune 500 for the past 12 years and was offered a PAYCUT, it certainly would be a disrespectful slap in the face.
Of course we could all live on $5m a year. But that’s not the point.
According to Kay, this is not dead yet.
The Yankees migh revisit this situation.
Maybe the offer of a $2M pay cut for only one year was a polite way to ‘fire’ him, hoping from the start that he’d reject it. Maybe it was intended as initial offer to negotiate from but he wasn’t biting.
Either way, I hope it’d be Girardi if Torre doesn’t reconsider or another offer isn’t made. And I also hope Posada, Mariano, Pettitte and A-Rod return.
I am okay with this. Joe got a fair offer – even if it included a slap. He turned it down. God bless. Time for all to move on.
Well that’s that. If they now hire Girardi you’ve got to believe they’re thinking youth movement. I’m actually giddy with anticipation of what will happen next…I love the Hot Stove season.
According to Cash, he says, “there may be candidates that will be surprising names that you wouldn’t even think about”
I totally agree that this was a motivating offer for a non-motivation manager.. if 5mil +3mil bonuses is not enough.. SO BE IT! BYE JOE!
Goes to show you how much his ego has to play in his decisions.. on the field and off the field.. if he really really cared for the players like it seemed…
He was lucky to get ANY offer… he refused. Time to embrace the new manager is correct.
just a tidbit, I have season tix on the yanks dugout at legends every year… Joe would never acknowedge any kids or anyone else.. he completely ignored everyone. I found that very lame. Jeter would always come talk to the kids…
I lost respect for Joe after that.
“Good for Joe.
He showed them that he is not their whipping boy.
He will not be out of work for long.”
If he expects more than this offer from any other team then he’ll never work again.
Girardi has absolutely no chance to manage this team, if you think otherwise.. you are incorrect.
It’s a long way from 1996.
Thanks for the dynasty run, Joe, but that’s well in the past now. It’s a different team now, and it’s time for a different manager to lead them to victory.
Ouch! The caller on Kay’s show is just ripping Torre.
“If anything the Yanks should have offered 2 years, but to offer one year with a team option IF THEY WIN THE WORLD SERIES is very bush league.”
do you even know what “bush league” means?
b/c the term doesn’t apply at all here.
the yankees are free to offer him whatever they want to just as he is free to turn it down.
they aren’t obligated to offer him 2 years.
I guess the only way I can understand Joe’s decision is that it is not the money. It is being second guessed by everyone all the time and he just had enough of being threatened with his job every year. He has a young kid, maybe it is just time to retire. Can’t imagine he’s going to get MORE money from any other team out there.
ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY FOR TORRE. ITS ABOUT THE YEARS.
all you idiots who keep referencing how much money they offered him, stop. That is not why torre turned it down.
This is not the end. Somebody in the hierachy will revisit this situation. Lets see what type of bad plubicity comes the Yankees’ brass way. For one thing, not a good start for the Hank and Hal reign.
bad bad yankees. how dare them offer a measly $5 mill a yr base with $3 mill in incentives to win with an option at $8 mill for next yr. WOw the Yankees are so unfair!!!!!!
Laughable……..Torre has to produce like all of us, he is not a king…..
Hey Pete, still think the Yanks have become boring?
While I’m as thrilled as anyone to see Ol’ Green Tea put out to pasture, even I have to admit the incentives per playoff round is pretty cheesy. And classic Steinbrenner.
Maybe the brillo-head, chainsmoking son has more in common with George than we think. Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss? One can only dream.
Great quote from Kay- Did you want to give him a five-year deal, he’s 67 years old?!?
I think the sticking point is the 2009 option which only vests with a World Series win. It should be a two year deal, no vesting option.
Torre is done with the Yanks, clowns.. Torre turned them down it is over…….
MOVE ON ALL.
Immagine a incentive to win!!!!!!How draconian…….
funny think if Joe gets another manager job, it’s not going to be close to what the yankees just offered him.. what a moron.
F you Steinbrenner. You disrespectful ungrateful ****.
Joe swallowed his pride time and time again. And he finally drew the line.
Who in their right mind would take the Yankee managing job at this point in time? Our team is in chaos. Is the new manager going to be handed a bullpen of Vizcainos and Farnsworths? If so, he’ll be the next one fired.
If they hire Girardi they better get Dr. Andrews on the payroll and workout a deal for cheap flights to Birmingham, AL. Dude will ruin our young pitchers just like he did in Florida.
OK so you that think Torre is right. You think he wants more years to get it done?
He’s had 6 years to get it done and hasn’t a World Series in any of the past 5 years would have bought extensions. I love Joe too but he did not earn more than one more year of time…to be honest with that payroll he did not even earn one year but they did the right thing and gave him a year and a guarantee if he did it.
i kind of wonder what effect this will have on offers they’ll give to another candidate, and how this will affect their decision as well…
Wow, not sure this was very intelligent.
Great, we get an inexperienced ex Yankee star (ala Lou Piniella) to step in to NY with no Rivera, Posada, or Pettitte.
Yippity do da.
Joe Torre has enough money to get him by just well in life. Obviously it wasnt about the money, it was about the way he had been treated. Everyone knows Joe loves being the Yankee manager. The structure of the contract was a slap in the face. How many other managers have that type of contract.
Great run Joe…but good-riddance. I work two jobs to afford the few games I go to and this guy turns down $5M guaranteed with $3M more if he wins with the highest payroll in the game. Damn you Joe and every other high priced baseball person who have no idea what real people do and live like.
whiners, showing him disrespect!!!!!They paid him $19 mill over the last 3 years….
2nd guessed of decisions, you mean like all you posters.. This is the Yanks not the Pirates, they have a $200 mill . payroll to help them win, with the $ comes the scrutiny…….
Whipping boy… LOL… give me $5M plus $3M more in incentives plus the chance of a guaranteed $8M the following year… with lots of talent and three very disappointing ALDS exits… and you can whip me for the next year…
We must move on…let Mattingly and Girardi be co-managers.
If this report is accurate, Torre was absolutely right to turn it down. Win a world series or else you are automatically fired? I am glad Jeter thinks every season that doesn’t end with a championship is a failure. I am glad the objective of the organization is to win every year. On the other hand, the Win or Die mentality is neither healthy for the team or its fans. It also positions us as less than classy, for the implication is that any season that falls short of the ultimate goal is our failure as opposed to someone else’s success. Once again, the ownership makes us look like jerks. And most importantly, the new manager is in a terrible position. Should Donnie and Joe G., coming in as second choices be held to the same standards? If so, that’s quite a burden for a new guy. On the other hand, if not they are not only second choice but also victims of lowered expectations.
This has unfolded terribly and doesn’t make me feel good at all about this new generation’s management style. Bad business. Bad strategy. Bad form. They need to think about how to get back to being an organization that players want to play for.
“Great quote from Kay- Did you want to give him a five-year deal, he’s 67 years old?!?”
Not surprising – Kay has always been a mouthpiece for Steinbrenner & co.
“Great, we get an inexperienced ex Yankee star (ala Lou Piniella) to step in to NY with no Rivera, Posada, or Pettitte.”
Anyone who thinks Torre has any influence over their decisions is a moron. It’s a business, if we offer the money then they’ll stay.
Paul O’Neill for manager.
Way to go Joe! I’m sure he’s had more than enough of getting blamed for a season when he had to use the bullpen extensively almost every game. Getting to the playoffs 12 straight times. I DO remember the 80s and look for more of that. If Mo, Po and Pettitte go, we’re in trouble!
I’m sure that Joe went down there personally so he could let ‘em have it face to face and not in the papers like the Steinies do!
Why doesn’t Cashman take a hit for hiring that ridiculous training person that caused all the injuries? Who know how far we would have gone if we could have started out with a healthy team. This team has been playing playoff baseball just to get back into it all year!
I say good for Joe, now bring on Joe Girardi. Anyone else is ridiculous at this point!!!
This is going to be a replay of the 80’s. Get ready for a new manager every other year.
multi year deal? How old is he, isn’t he almost 70? You’re gonna offer a near 70 year old man a 7 year deal? Come on! The deal was fair and he said no, it’s done. Time to move on.
What I don’t get is, according to Cashman now, he’s been in conversation with Joe about the offer last few days, and he said even on the plane ride to Tampa today, Joe still didn’t know if he would say yes. Why would Joe wait all the way to Tampa to say no?
Total speculation here: I wonder if Joe’s face to face meeting with nutcase George was the deal breaker? I find it hard to believe that Joe turned it down b/c of the money. For what the paycut represents (disrespect/punishment) maybe, but I refuse to believe Joe turned it down because he was greedy.
I’m hoping for Girardi over Donnie.
Wow. Good for Torre. He’s got his reasons and there’s no reason to believe he was left hanging. He was under contract until the end of October.
Love Donnie Baseball, but he’s not ready yet. Go with Joe (Girardi). Find it hard to believe they will revisit the possibility of Torre. They’re off the hook now, that proverbial albatross is off their neck. For those that weren’t able to hear the live call, there was relief in that room and they did say they were moving forward.
As for Mo and Po? Joe wasn’t let go so it shouldn’t factor into their decision. But if they want to resign those guys they should stay away from the incentive laden offers.
I’m sad that Joe won’t be back, he was really the right guy for the job, but it’s the dawn of a new age for the Yankees so it’s kind of exciting.
His weaknesses have outweighed his strengths as a manager in recent years.
Weaknesses that included leading a team from a 21-29 record to a 12th straight post-season appearance. We should all have so many ‘weaknesses’ in our chosen fields.
I wonder what some of the “names” are that Cashman was referring to.
NOW THE DYNASTY IS OFFICIALLY OVER.
BERNIE IS GONE.
TORRE IS GONE.
NOW ANDY PETTITE WILL BE GONE.
MO/POSADA MAY BE GONE.
JETER WITHOUT THE ONLY MANAGER HE EVER PLAYED WITH.
Way to go Joe!
I’m glad he waited for them to come groveling back to him, only to shove their offer in their faces. I was thinking that he must want to come back, since he didn’t announce he wasn’t before Yankees, Inc. met in Tampa–but this is an even better way to go out on his own terms.
Slap in the face?? A slap in the face would have been $1 million plus $6 million in bonus incentives. It’s all about the length. Torre was 2-3 years and wasn’t taking a 1 year deal. I am neither happy nor sad about this because it was time for someone else to take over. Torre abused every reliever he has had over his tenure and with all the arms coming up, this might be the best thing for the future of the pitching staff.
Wonder if they will offer the next manager i.e. Mattingly the same deal?
Base salary plus incentives?
Mixed feelings:
a) I’m sad to see Joe go
b) Then again, we might (MIGHT!) get someone who knows how to manage in-game.
c) I’m more afraid what this will do to our FA class (if A-Rod, Po & Mo all leave because we didn’t offer Torre 2 mill more, then what?)
d) All in all, the offer by the Yanks seems fair to me. With this lineup, he SHOULD make the playoffs. But we want the big one. Incentives based on playoff performance is fair for this team, and a 5 million base salary isn’t half bad either!
Joe Torre simply did not do enough in the past few years to warrant a guaranteed mult-year deal. I think the offer was fair and if he didn’t want to prove he was worth a second year then he can go enjoy retirement, or better yet failing with a new team like he did everywhere else.
The offer, I feel, was more than fair. At $ 5 million, he still would have made considerably more than Cox, LaRussa, Piniella and Scioscia. Considerably more. Had he made the Series in 2008, he would have received $3 million more AND had the option automatically vested for 2009 for $8 million.
It was a very fair deal.
Ask a blue collar guy who got downsized and who had to take another job at a considerably lower rate what he thinks.
The bad thing is not that Torre is gone. The bad/ugly thing what is the impact of Torre not returning on Pettite/Mo/Posada for next year.
“Win a world series or else you are automatically fired?”
WOW. NO! He does not get fired. It is a one year contract (and it was extended for a second if he made it to World Series). If there is no World Series, you negotiate again next year. Not that unfair.
Pete – I bet THIS wasn’t the story you thoughts you’d be writing . . .
I don’t think Joe will go anywhere else to manage. I think he’ll go back to the booth AFTER an extended time off period!
It’s not about the money, he doesn’t need it! It’s about being treated like dirt after the career he had. And don’t quote the money as an example of how he was treated.
*Pavano for 2008 Manager!*
Holy crap, I didn’t even consider this might chase Andy away too… Yanks, you better do something to reassure me. To have a depleted team because of this would be insane!
“If he expects more than this offer from any other team then he’ll never work again.”
He may not get the same $, but he will get more years and be treated a hell of a lot better.
George has been needling him for the past few years. Great move threatening him in the middle of the playoffs.
He has had to deal with overpaid prima donna’s on this team. Tell me, was Giambi a help? Randy Johnson? Clemens? Farnsworth? Mussina?
All that money for wastes of roster space. The lineup was great but the pitching was a disaster. The starters couldn’t go long. The pen got overworked because of that. Add to that a lack of talent in the pen, and it is a recipe for losing.
All the while, guys in Tampa who couldn’t hold his jock are whispering in George’s ears that he should go. All the while George is getting rid of Zimmer, Stott, and others. Then he brings in Mattingly as the heir apparent. Not to mention Guidry (who was a great pitcher) as pitching coach with NO EXPERIENCE. All because they were former Yankees.
New era, inexperienced coach, no Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, or Andy Pettitte. And this can be topped off with no A-Rod, which to this point, I would be okay with.
It is semi-exciting and semi-frightening. $100 says the Yankees miss the post-season next year, are bombarded with internal ego and conflict, and implode. Then, they’ll reshape the organization for 2009 with a new ballpark, Steinbrenner will be dead, they’ll have another new coach, and 4 dominant starting pitchers.
All you that think Torre got a bad deal are insane.
Maybe Joe, an eternally classy guy, went to Tampa to say “no, thank you” in person, out of respect for all the money and opportunity the Yanks/Big Stein have given him over the years, rather than having an agent or someone say “no” over the phone and end his long career the wrong way. Maybe he wanted them to understand that “no” really meant “no” and maybe he also had a few choice words for them that he wanted to deliver directly and only in person.
If this is anything other than a bargaining stunt, maybe, like Mike Hargrove, Joe looked inside and saw that it was time for him to move on. This is a year of change in the organization and maybe he thinks it’s a good time to make a clean break and make way for his successor. He made the most of his opportunity and God knows along with the perks of being Joe Torre there came a lot of garbage. Those remarks he made after they lost in the playoffs this year were all in the past tense and he talked about “they” and “the team” instead of “we.” Maybe Joe knew his answer a while ago and was just waiting to see how the organization would respond after George’s pre-game 3 threat, whether they would be gentlemen in the end.
I’m glad for him for another reason. Once you’ve had prostate cancer you never really know if something else is going to show up one day when you least expect it and take away years you thought you had in the bank. I went through it with my dad. Joe Torre is 67 and God willing has a good number of healthy years ahead. Time to give up all those road trips and flights and hotels and come home to momma and the little girl. He can spend time with his sister and brother. He can lecture, write, do a little baseball on TV for ESPN… the drive to Bristol wouldn’t be so bad. He’s got his foundation too.
So this is what the future feels like, eh? Weird.
Don’t blame Joe one bit. Time to get younger in ever facet anyway
i think we all know the real reason joe refused the offer
stale bagels from Monday
Stop panicking. This does not have any influence on Posada, A-Rod, Mo, or Pettitte. Money and years is all that is going to matter to those guys.
Everyone was saying that this is “not disrespectful.” but it was.
How would you like to take a 50% pay cut and only a one year deal in which the yankees could fire him if anything went sour?
The more I think about it, the more it appears — appears — that Joe is a frackin’ moron. What exactly was unfair about this offer? Five million for failing (not getting to the post season). Six for getting to where you always get. And two more in success.
Maybe there were restrictions regarding autonomy that haven’t been made public. But on the face of it? He seems hidebound, stubborn, and foolish.
And again, I can’t imagine a great deal of sympathy for someone who just felt five million bucks wasn’t enough.
How about Joe replaces Suzyn?
I have been saying for weeks now that I thought Pettite coming back without Torre was an issue HOWEVER if Girardi gets the gig you think he is not going to call Andy whom he was his catcher for and say I need you here to help me with these young pitchers.
Strummerson he was not fired he turned down an offer which could have made him 8 million dollars this year which is a 1 million dollar raise and he if made it past the 1st round ie improved upon the past 3 years he would have made the same salary. SOunds like a good deal to me
Here’s *Video* of the announcement
http://tinyurl.com/33wftv
Notice how *ESPN gets it backwards*
Runs 2 minutes. I have the Q/A later.
Can you guys stop the b*tching and moaning… 5 million is still a lot of money and what did Joe achieve in the last 3 seasons to earn the 20 million$ salary? Think more from a business perspective than from your heart.. And Joe is not going to be the permanent manager for the yanks anyway.. I dont see any disrespect in this at all. He is still the highest paid manager in baseball and all the yanks are asking him is to earn his salary through performance incentives rather than drinking green tea and answering reporters.. My feeling is that there are atleast 2-3 managers who are better than Joe Torre who are currently managing..Agreed that they are not under the ny media microscope like Torre is, but they also dont have a payroll or superstars that Torre gets every year… If you people are married to Torre and want to complain, keep doing so.. In my opinion, a change is inevitable some time soon considering his age.. Why delay the change.. I dont mind starting the team with a new manager and young players like the way the yanks did in 1995-96 than going through another season of nyy drama.. It could be a learning curve, but with the kind of young players we have and the veterans mix, we should be in the playoff race every year regardless of whether Torre manages or not..
Just for the record, this is in no way a fifty percent pay cut. Not even close.
i got no work done today, btw…
For the love of god–Joe did not say the deal was unfair. Only people on this board say it’s unfair. Maybe Joe just wanted to retire.
Can you guys sit back and think that it’s possible he didn’t turn it down because of the money?
Perhaps he didn’t like something that was said in the meeting.
Perhaps they told him that the new pitching coach will determine when relievers are used.
Perhaps he doesn’t get along with some of the new people in charge.
Perhaps he didn’t like that the Yankees acted the entire time like they could treat him like crap and then snap their fingers and he’d be back.
Perhaps he decided ahead of time that no matter what the money was, he was going to turn it down.
It’s really ignorant to assume this is about the money and start calling him selfish.
Perhaps, even, this was planned from the beginning, as a way for both to go out without looking that bad.
If, Mo,Po,Andy, and A-Rod leave, won’t they be playing for a new manager anyway?
Just found out. Yankees deserve what they get. They waited way to long and there are still too many f-Nuts influencing the senile owner and his misplaced sons.
What an embarassment for this organization?
Posada, Rivera will now be gone. Pettitte will not come back…For better or worse, this is not the way to treat loyal employees. I thought the crazy crap was over.
Guess the Bronx Zoo is back.
Maybe he turned it down because he doesn’t want to manage anymore. Then why did he go down there? Maybe he hadn’t yet come to a decision.
Good for Torre for turning it down. He was making 7 mil, why take a deal that is essentially a 2 mil pay cut? So he could prove he could win? Sorry, he already proved that – 4 times over. This way, he goes out proud. I doubt Joe Torre will ever manage again.
That is, until 4 years and 3 managers (LaRussa, Donnie Baseball, and Girardi) from now.
Here here, Jon!
Any guesses on the Post and News covers?
“Say it Ain’t So, Joe” is too easy.
“The Five Million Dollar Baby”?
Really interesting that Randy Levine made the announcement. Wouldn’t that have seemed like Cashman’s job?
Jon – Maybe he looked in the mirror, said I’m 67 years old, a cancer survivor with a great wife and young kid; I have plenty of money and now want to go relax in my house on the beach.
Jon,
Agree, This is NOT about money but the way Hilter and his youth ralliers have constantly badgered this man in many classless ways.
This is about not taking sh*t anymore.
If they offered him one year and didn’t bother with a team option for ‘09 with the world series as a kicker, I wonder if he would have taken just the one year for what it was … $5M plus $3M in incentives.
Randy Levine is a cancer worse than his flippin curly hair. Why can’t the Tampa faction and Levine, just curly up and die. Go do something else, just leave teh Yankees alone.
This is going to be one hell of an interesting offseason!!!
Torre – gone
Mattingly – ?
Guidry – ?
Bowa – ?
Pena – ?
Rivera – ?
ARod – ?
Posada – ?
Pettitte – ?
Abreu – ?
Hopefully it is not a disasterous one?!?!?
I’m stunned. I can’t believe this is it, but I finally realize that it’s over.
This pretty much means we have no Andy Pettite next year. I don’t think he’s going to come back with no Torre and no Gator.
I think the Yankees made a somewhat fair offer and I think Joe ended up cutting his nose off to spite his face a little. He just came off making 21 million in 3 years, he could afford to take the risk and the challenge this deal would have afforded him. The Yankees should have given him a 2 year offer, but they have their reasons and we have to respect them.
It’s a sad day and it shouldn’t have ended like this.
That said, I hope they go with Girardi. I don’t want a manager who has never managed and I don’t want a sideshow like Valentine.
To the person who compared Torre to a battered wife: you are disgusting, Yankee Chick. Not even a remote comparison. Go to a battered wives shelter and tell them how you compared a million-dollar job offer to abuse. Disgusting.
To the rest, please come down off of the ledge. Let’s see what happens before you write off the 2008 season.
Thank God.
murphy,
very touching theory. perhaps you are right.
i like that he walked away on his own terms.
“I’m stunned. I can’t believe this is it, but I finally realize that it’s over.”
Well G. Love – as the great philosopher, John Sterling, once said, in life even good things must come to an end.
For over a decade the man delivered post season results and led several over achieving and one great (’98) team the championships – a percentage unmatched since the Yankee’s of the 50’s. He was classy and stablized the franchise – brought nation-wide admiration to the most hated team in sports and outshown ownership by far.
For that he derserved to close out the old stadium and open the new. The next generation od Steinbreners are no smarter or less egotistical than their shell of an arrogant father.
Lt’ssee if Andy, Mo and Jorge make them pay for their arrogance.
Thanks for a great run Joe.
For $5M guaranteed + $3M in incentives, I’d let Mike Tyson eat BOTH my ears.
I was hoping Torre would get precisely this sort of offer. That he turned it down is pathetic and my opinion of him is greatly diminished.
He’s turning 68 in June. I seriously doubt that any team will be calling him–and if one does happen to call, it sure as hell won’t be with an offer of a $5M base.
Sorry to see you go, Joe, but you lost me at Goodbye.
I’m so upset by how this went down. I’m really worried that Mo and Po will leave.
The contract offer still would have kept him as the highest paid manager in the game. I just don’t see how that’s insulting.
Now, if he wanted a multi-year deal, and the Yankees rejected that, that’s a different deal.
However, the dollars offered can hardly be classified as “insulting”.
Its a big, big change and its certainly one that shakes the foundation of what the Yankees were for the last 12 years.
Its going to be interesting to see the reaction in the city the next day or two.
Who knows, maybe George shows up at Joe’s house tonight with a new offer! lol
With all this stuff going on, that wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Joe wanted to come back before the postseason. What happened? George Steinbrenner happened. He’s the boss and has the right to say anything he wants, but he dumped on Joe after the last two seasons. It may have been a unanimous offer including the Boss, but in his heart of hearts Joe knows there is no vote of confidence from George Steinbrenner.
Giradi is not the right choice.
Right now, the outlook is as such:
Posada – gone
Rivera – 50/50
A-Rod – gone
Pettitte – gone
Abreu – gone
Between free agency and the farm system, there is not enough talent to fill in the gaps.
Look for the Yankees to place 3rd next year and niss the playoffs.
Starters:
Mussina
Wang
Igawa
Chamberlan
Hughes
Kennedy
1b – Duncan/Phillips
2b – Cano
SS – Jeter
3b – Betemit?
LF – Damon
CF – Cabrera
RF – Duncan?
Not a good team so far.
I am amazed by how many people here think that money was the issue. Do you expect Joe to call a press conference and say, “I turned them down because I think they should pay me more”? Give me a break. It is likely he turned them down because he doesn’t want to go through this process again after being left hanging for two years in a row. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he took another managing job (or a TV deal) for less money.
Especially funny was the poster above who suggested that if Joe didn’t like being disrespected, he should have won one of the last three division series. Yeah, dope slap for Joe there, what was he thinking? He should have tried to win those series somehow. Bad choice there.
Fact is that Torre got a good deal. He doesn’t deserve $7 mil for 3 years. This is not 2000 anymore. Time to move on…
When did Cashman begin to sound so stupid?
Can he use the phrase “ya know”… sounds like a illiterate NBA star…
I think its a little early to write off the 2008 season……..6 months before it starts.
NOBODY knows what the roster will look like next year yet.
Let’s see what happens before we declare next year “over”.
After we lost in the first round in 2005, 2006, and 2007 and got embarrassed in 2004, I just don’t know how you make the argument that Joe should get more money than he did this year.
ARE You all morons.. all these players gone.. really the Yanks have the option on Abreu if they want him back he will be..
Mariano going really!!!!!Where to???????? same with most of the other players, you guyrs are all woosies…. Imagine the outrage the Yanks only offered Torre $5 mill. more then any manager in baseball.
AGAIN HIS REDUCED PAY WAS HIGHER THEN ANY MANAGER IN BASEBALL, man the Yanks are really petty terrible people……
The notion that Posada and Rivera will automatically leave now is nonsense.
Pepper how could u say all those guys are as good as gone…they are all going to go where the money is and the yankees will give them the most money. ITs not like they would have taken a pay cut if torre stayed. is really doesnt affect any of the players if u think about it….even pettitte said he would come back this year if he stays healthy…the only one who might not come back is a rod and that would be true with or without torre
If Pettitte opts out, I’ll lose all respect for him.
When he signed the deal, he said he’d exercise the option as long as he was healthy.
He won’t opt out. He’s not a liar. Do not prove me wrong, Andy. I want to love you.
I wonder if the Yankees factored in how much extra they are going to have to pay Posada and Mo to keep them now that Torre isn’t the manager.
If you don’t think they are going to play hardball with Cashman and company now, you are stupid.
Yes, I know they were going to go after every last dollar before this announcement, but now it’s more contentious than it could have been.
I’m just shocked.
Taking 5 million to manage the Yankees in the last season in Yankee Stadium (with potential for 3 million more) is a lot better than taking 12 million for 3 years to manage whatever other team he is going to get.
He’s put up with the pressure before, I don’t know why he would walk away from it now.
I don’t blame him, they’ve treated him like crap after the last two years – Lou Pinella last year, then everything this year – I would say the same thing – give me my two years or i walk – good for Joe. for the record I wanted him back, but good for him.
People talk about how Joe hasn’t won in a few years. Look at Boston, Terry can do ANYTHING he wants and they won’t get rid of him. They won in 04, lost in 05, MISSED the playoffs in 06 and are on the verge of being out in 07…. how long does he get a pass if Torre makes the playoffs 12 years and a row and is out??
“You can’t predict baseball…”
Dr. John Sterling PhD DDS OB/GYN
The way I see it is that this was in no way an insult. His BASE salary would still have been almost 50% more than the next highest paid manager. In addition, Torre made too many “It’s good to be here” comments when they won the wild card, something even Francesa (who is currently railing against the performance based contract) vehemently disliked. Plus, Toree often managed with a troubling and– for me– frustrating lack of urgency, like he was up in games rather than down. Or like when he used Weaver in ‘03 or did not use Mussina on regular rest in the ‘04 ALCS. Lots of examples. And remember that he signed his present deal after he had won 6 pennants in 8 years. Having said that, I love Torre and what he has done for the franchise. But remember that the franchise has also done much toturn him from Clueless Joe into a HOFer. And I have to admit I will not miss his screwball, in-game decisions.
Andrea,
“Pavano for 2008 Manager!”
Sure, they’ll give him the job, then he’ll pull a butt cheek walking out with the lineup card in spring training and be out for the season.
newsflash whatever job Torre gets will be at a paycut so obviously it is because king torre thought he was slighted or disrespected blah blah blah.
shocking steinnbrenner being a bully, torre knew what he was getting into 12 yrs. ago.
torre the victim I love it.. does he ever get blamed by the fans or his media lackeys???
Imagine the nerve of the steinny family they gove there manager everything that can be reasonably expected to win and want there team to win..
the only problem with the steinny clan is the goal of winning all the time is unattainable….
we’ve recently seen high level gms resign and stay with their organizations. i wish torre would have been bumped up in the organization to a role where he’d have some input in the yankees in an advisory role.
to me when an organization loses quality core people like torre, it doesn’t say much for that organization.
i’m a yankee fan, but i’m no fan of the present ownership set up and management. i didn’t like how bernie was treated nor how posada and rivera were treated on their extension requests.
you can be sure both of them know they have the yankees over a barrel now and they will use that advantage because they know it’s the last time they’ll have it.
cashman doesn’t have enough time in the day to deal with everything on his plate right now.
i don’t think this is going to be the last surprise we as fans get.
I think people are just scared of the “new”. I just hope they bring someone in soon. BTW, ESPN sucks.
Pepper,
If the Yankees want Abreu, they have him. It is their choice to pick up his option, not his choice to walk away like it is A-Rod’s.
That puts a little more beef in the lineup. Not much though.
P.S. If they want to maximize the chances of keeping Mo, Posada and Andy, they better hire Donnie fast and make Bowa the bench coach.
Pepper Brooks -
Why would Posada go? Because of Torre? His best friend Jeter is still here, and Po will get a fat raise, two years, an option for a third and a personal services contract during retirement. Po’s not leaving.
Mo might leave, although I think it’s better than 50/50 that he stays. See Posada notes above. Even if he does leave, however, he pitches 75 innings a year – out of over 1400 played.
A-Rod may be gone, but that has nothing to do with Torre and everything to do with Boras.
Pettite’s decision will be based on whether he wants to retire or not. In 2008, he’ll either have a NY uniform on or be playing catch with his kids.
Abreu is replaceable, if not this year, then next. He’s a defensive liability and in the season just concluded, we learned that he can experience deep and long slumps. His slump the first two months played a major part in us falling 14 games back.
We may need a rebuild year, maybe two, but we’re hardly in bad shape even if we do lose A-Rod, Mo and Abreu.
ESPN DOES SUCK!!! AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL.
Haha! Good riddance.
Why does torre think he deserves to make double the next highest payed manager in baseball? He isnt even close to the best manager in the game? He gets all the talent in the world and he cant get us pass the first round of the playoffs. We have won about four playoff games in the last sixteen. Come on! We need a change and torre was the one that disrespected us. He cries about leaving the team and then wont take five million to be a manager for one more yr. SCR@w him! He doesnt deserve to be our manager any more. I hope cashman is fired next. Then we can really start over. I hope they give the job to girardi. He took a no talent marlins club and almost led them to the playoffs while fighting with the management the entire season – not an easy task with a team that had a 20 million dollar payroll. Lets see what he can do with a team that has a 200 million dollar payroll.
Good for Joe!
He’s picked up where Yogi left off by staying away for 13 years after he was fired in ‘85. Two classy Yankees.
There may still be more negotiations with Torre. It ain’t over till it’s over and it ain’t over till the Yanks hire a new manager or Joe takes another job.
Its hard to interpret this in any other way than that Torre didn’t really want to come back. Its hardly an insult to link his pay to how far the Yankees go in the playoffs. While it is largely beyond his direct control it does increase the Yankees profits significantly. In effect, the Yankees are saying if we make more money (because we play more playoff games) you will make more money.
Working in investment banking I guess I find it hard to sympathize with the “its an insult to offer a pay cut” argument. In the business world your pay is justified largely by two things — what are other people willing to pay you and what do people that do a similar job at similar places make. On both scores the Yankees offer indicates that they viewed Torre as nothing less than the best manager in baseball and were willing to pay him as such. If Torre wants to manage somewhere else its hard to imagine him getting a better financial deal (or anything even close to what the Yankees offered). If he agrees to go somewhere else for a worse financial deal what does that say about his desire to manage the Yanks?
People, please STOP talking about the $5mill and Joe being greedy or represented by Boras and all this crazy talk. You cannot honestly believe that Joe turned down the job becuase of money. Joe is not actively hunting for another manager job at a higher pay. It’s what the paycut stands For, and not the paycut itself. And the Steinbrenner craziness was probably a factor. Who knows what went on behind closed doors when Joe saw George face to face today. I wouldn’t be surprised if more garbage was spilling out of the boss’s mouth.
Now Mo and Po PLEASE DON’T GO!!
as far as the paycut. if people get raises when results are good, then why no paycut when things go bad?
Look at the NFL no guaranteed contracts……..
1st of all obviously George is mentally diminsihed so what he says is really irrelevant. he definitely has some form of dementia……..
I am scared of the “new”. There’s a comfort level with Torre managing this team. He gets them into the post season every year.
If the next manager can’t do that, he’ll be fired after next season. I don’t care who he is or how many years he gets, he will be fired and we will go back to a carousel again.
Joe Torre took us off that carousel and gave the team the stability it needed with an ownership/management as fractured as ours it. He took all the Tampa signed players (i.e. mistakes) and made it work.
Whoever comes in next has to know that if they don’t make the post season next year, they will be gone.
I’m afraid of the carousel. I’m afraid of three managers in 3 years. I’m afraid of Joe Torre II in a couple years. Those of us over 30 know what those years were like before 1994. I’m not saying it’s going to happen again, but it certainly seemed like it wasn’t going to happen with Joe Torre on the bench.
That said, he should have taken this deal and he can’t cry about anything. Being able to manage the Yankees for 13 seasons is a gift. I know he earned it, but the landscape didn’t suddenly change. He knew that ownership was breathing down his neck even when he had the big extension. He should have toughed it out one more year and gotten to the playoffs yet again.
Whatever. I just hope the next guy can get this team to the post season. If I were him, I wouldn’t buy that house in Westchester/Greenwich just yet. No post season, you’re fired. That’s where we are. Ugh.
And on a side note, I see this as being the beginning of the end of Jeter. I think w/o his Mr. T on the bench, he’s going to lose some of that fire. If anything, I hope the next manager can make the tough decision about when it’s time to move Jeter from SS. Things are going to get ugly. They would have been less ugly with Torre steering the ship, but that ship has apparently sailed.
he probably wanted to walk away. one can only take so much.
not the end of the world. stacks the odds against going to the playoffs though.
All things considered, Joe Girardi is the right choice…
- Familiarity with the organization dating back to his playing days, former bench coach to Torre, manager of the Marlins with a respectable one year, and observation from the broadcast booth.
Then again, the brass could look at 2 other candidates with big league managerial experience, Larry Bowa or Tony Pena.
Jeff in MA: I was wondering when someone would catch that. I think he’d only agree to be manager if managers can go on the DL.
White Plains Mike
October 18th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Pepper how could u say all those guys are as good as gone…they are all going to go where the money is and the yankees will give them the most money. ITs not like they would have taken a pay cut if torre stayed. is really doesnt affect any of the players if u think about it….even pettitte said he would come back this year if he stays healthy…the only one who might not come back is a rod and that would be true with or without torre
I just don’t think this is completely about money… Posada and Rivera did not get new deals before the season began, somewhat a slap in the face with today’s players. Then to see the one manager you have played your MLB career under get such a disrespectful treatment, I think it makes those two rethink the committment from the Yankees to retain them. Yes money is always the top priority, but in this case, not so much.
“Really interesting that Randy Levine made the announcement. Wouldn’t that have seemed like Cashman’s job?”
the palace intrigue continues. cashman only has a year to go on his contract. he’s not exactly in a strong position. i think in the vacuum that has been created by george’s health problems there will be all kinds of attempts at grasping power and control. levine is in a good position to increase his power. the steinbrenner kids need him because he knows the business and they don’t.
Anyone else notice how Peter Gammons loves to take any shots he can against the Yankees.
This is why he is over the hill…he is too involved with his love for the Red Sux. After a long career, he is entitled to as much, but please, check your bias at the door if you plan to be a baseball analyst.
The option for 2009 vested if Torre GOT TO the World Series; he did not have to win the WS, just get there.
The notion that this makes the Yankees look bad is ridiculous. The way this has panned out significantly lessens the pressure on the next manager and makes for a better environment all the way around. The Tampa group comes out of this with their hands relatively clean, having made a generous offer, AND they get to kick off a new era the way I suspect Cashman and the baseball people wanted to.
We’ll miss you, Joe.
The King is dead. Long live the King!
YANKEES 2008!!! LET’S DO THIS!!!
Pavano cant be the manager. He agreed to be the conditioning coach for 08.
I hope posada and rivera only re-sign for two or three yrs. Any more and we are asking for a noose around our necks – They are already old (not even getting old any more) and at some point they are going to turn into very expesnvie mistakes like Mussinas contract last yr. I wish there was some quality closers and catchers on the free agent market this off season- not many good options. I hope cashman is thinking ahead – something he rarely does if ever.
Dee -
You may have a point “Who knew what happened behind closed doors.”
It is a strange turn of events…Torre and Cash fly all the way to Tampa to turn down the offer? That’s not how things work.
Peter – can you find out if the flight down was with the intention of inking a deal and something occurred in the face-to-face that blew it up?
It does seem a reasonable scenario that would explain the unique way this unfolded.
Will somebody please tell me when ESPN plans to spring for some bucks to have those yellow stumps removed from the yap of Peter Gammons ?
Wow. PLEASE DON’T POST FROM IGNORANCE.
A-Rod coming back has nothing to do with Torre.
Yankees have club option to bring Abreu back.
Posada/Mo/Andy are all SLIGHTLY less likely to come back now. They all played with Girardi and with Mattingly as a coach. I don’t know how comfortable or uncomfortable each would be with those guys, but they know both well and the Yankees have the resources to give them the best monetary offer.
The Yankees rotation next year will likely be five of these six: Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Joba, Kennedy and Hughes. I can live with that.
Maybe the Yankees don’t make the playoffs — but I think this worked out fine. The Yankees made a fair offer and Joe rejected it — which was his right. Neither side is wrong in the way they handled this.
I agree with those who believe something happened at the negotiating table that made Joe just get up and leave – maybe we’ll learn more once Joe talks about it. One thing is for sure – the organization set it up so they could look like they made a reasonable offer and Torre refused it. The Steinbrenners have more money than God and now they want to offer a cheeseball contract to a guy who’s worked for them for 12 years!
Yankees will now have to interview a minority candidate by the order of Bud Selig.It`s a farce, just get on with it and bring on the Don Mattingly era.
It’s tough to imagine that Cashman and Torre didn’t talk about the offer on the flight from NY to Tampa. Torre probably told Cashman that rather than take a quick return flight back to NY, he’d tell the brass himself that he was nixing the deal.
Only a fly-on-the-wall knows for sure.
By offering Torre an incentive based contract are they inferring he wasn’t trying to win??
I can’t wait till the next manager has to sit there and watch his team need to score 6 runs every night in order to win. The Yankees’ pitching STUNK. Thier pitching got Joe torre fired. For whoever it is sake, I hope his contract isn’t incentive based.
Time for everything, Time for Joe to move on, and time for the Yankees to move on.
Joe Torre has been a class act for a decade plus. He has gotten all the perks of his position and all the crap that comes with his position. He handled the crap well and he became a multi-millionare, an icon and a sure fire HOF member as a manager in return. Because of his celebrity status he also got access to people and organizations to help out his causes. Pretty good deal in exchange for dealing with so called crap from the owner. He also had access to the resources from the richest team in all of sports and he failed to get out of the first round 3 years in a row. So my question is how the hell was he disrespected, by this offer of extension?
Why are people painting him as some hero going out on his terms, maybe he just said no, it is time to move on and spend time with friends and family and causes?
The national media will crown him a saint and clothe the Yankees organization with a black shroud characterizing them as heartless and a villian.
The facts don’t add up.
Just picture walking into your boss’ office and getting a great review after years of unprecedented success and being a huge part of increasing the company’s ‘bottom-line’ profits enormously, but being told you not only weren’t getting a raise – you were getting a paycut. And a smarmy ONE-YEAR deal! Fabulous reward for service rendered and great motivation eh? If you were smart you would see the writing on the wall – they want you to leave, but they don’t want to be the bad guys. And that’s exactly what Joe saw. He was the only one to act with any courage or class. Period. The Yankee organization should be ashamed of themselves – gutless talking fat heads. Why not just stand up and say it’s time for new leadership; take responsibility for your decisions. And Brian Cashman has lost any respect I may have had for him for participating in this charade. Take the zero’s out of the offer – and think about it! For God’s sake – do you know what the Yankees are worth??? Joe may have been paid way more than any other manager – but the Yankees are worth significantly more than any other franchise and earn millions more. It’s all relative.
I think the 1 year offer was the problem, not the money. It would have been up to $8 mil with incentives if the team was successful.
Can we hear from the Captain?
Was Joe Tprre clueless to fly down to Tampa?
Will Joe Torre take a job on the Yes Network?
Perhaps Torre wanted another three years. Nonetheless, Yankee Management made a fair offer with their incentive laden contract. Joe Torre was/is a classy baseball man, not a great tactical manager, but a wonderful player’s manager and ambassador of the Game of Baseball. He evidently felt that the 1-year deal w/ 1-year option was not enough.
(Item: Walter Alston managed the LA Dodgers for 22 years….. all with one-year contracts.)
Joe Torre is 68 years old – are you gonna offer him a long term deal???
And please stop the “Torre is crucified by the Boss” baloney! He should’ve been around in the late 70s and 80s and early 90s when General George would call the dugout during gametime to threaten the Martins, Berras, Pinellas, Greens, Showalters and other managers! Torre got top dollar for managing in New York. George’s rants have been extremely rare over the past 3 years. Joe knew what he was up against when he signed his last 3-year deal in 2004.
Enough already!
Guys like Pettite, Mo, Posada and ARod are going to be influenced by Dollars and contract length first, family considerations next. Torre returning is a distant third.
Time to move forward…
I love how everyone is saying Torre had a right to reject that contract off – I think that is very clearly stating the obvious. No one has to tell that – everyone realizes it already. But the fact is the guy was crying his eyes out after game four cuz he thought he was about to be fired. Then, he is offered five million plus incentives which should already be his incentive to make the world series and he turns it down. It just makes torre sound extremely fake. The fact is when he accepts an offer that is less than five mil and no other team will ever offer him that much money the question must be asked – why? Guess he really didnt want to manage this team any more and thas fine but how dare the fans blame the organization or say Torre deserved seven million. No manager deserves that much esp a manager that has an all star team at his disposal each season. Any one could get this team into the playoffs and since the ALCS game four Torre is 4 and 12 – Any one could do that as well. So good bye torre but no one should be saying the organization disrespected him. Thge yankees made torre not the other way around. He was considered an awful manager before he donned the pinstripes. They gave him 12 great yrs. He should be thanking god every day that he had the chance to be a yankee.
When ARod, Rivera and Posada walk, and the Yanks draw 1 million less than last year, what will 2 million mean to Levine and Steinbrenner then?
BACK TO THE 80’s.
Thanks george–how about if you never let Pettite go–maybe a championship or two. Sell-George-Sell, and not to either of your sons or anyone else from Tampa who’s screwed up the success of the 90s.
“When ARod, Rivera and Posada walk, and the Yanks draw 1 million less than last year, what will 2 million mean to Levine and Steinbrenner then?
BACK TO THE 80’s.”
More “doom and gloom”! How about Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Horne, Clippard, Ohlendorf, Tabata, Jackson on the horizon and the financial ability to still sign some free agents?
Yeah Fred, maybe its time for you to find a new Team too!
NYY….only manager Jeter ever played for?
Do your research. Jeter played for Showalter in 1995.
About Time.You got this post written.
Luckily for you yankees fans…
You now get to sit and wait for another inappropriate, awkward, and pathetic tearful breakdown from susan waldman.
I can’t wait. It’s all I can think about.
Seriously.
So Joe turns down a contract that is essentially 2x that of anyone elses. I guess he saw the hand writing on the wall and decided to go out on his own terms. All things considered he is a decent well liked man who achieved success and stayed longer than anyone ever has under George. He did great things with the Yankees and was repaid for that with money and fame. He would never have been considered for the Hall if not for them. He cannot be held totally responsible for their failure this year or any other. But the Joe Torre of late reminds me of Earl Weaver waiting for that 3 run hr or that pitcher miraculosly finding the plate after walking the bases loaded. The words of the players of how comfortable it is to play for him. Hell give me a little angst,some fire,some passion. Steal a base, squeeze bunt, take a 3-0 pitch(Posada) with the bases loaded. Send A-Rod with 1 out with Posada up to keep out of the double play, have Melky sacrifice with runners on 1st and 2nd, hit and run. These were things Joe did in 96 and stopped doing when he became Earl Weaver. If Jorge and Mariano want to leave because of his departure.. well guys pick up your watch on the way out..we will see you in about 5 years at old timers day..don’t forget to write. Baseball is a business to them and it is a passion to us fans. When Bernie didn’t return this past spring remember how the fans talked about his mis treatment..forgetting that he entertained signing with the Red Sox to get a 7 year deal. Adios Joe its been great..Hello Mr Girardi congratulations on being named the new manager…..