Move starting to backfire on Yanks already
-
- October
- 18
Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci is right on the mark with this column.
As he points out, Joe Maddon and Ozzie Guillen got multi-year extensions. Joe Torre was offered one year? Nobody is buying what the Yankees are trying to sell.
The Yankees better hope whoever gets the job gets off to a good start. There can be no honeymoon for the next manager based on the comments of Randy Levine. If 94 wins and a playoff berth aren’t good enough, the next guy better win 95 games and get in the ALCS.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, October 18th, 2007 at 9:03 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Share and Enjoy: 
| 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Peter Abraham
It’s been a long time since I’ve written these words.
But today for the first time in almost twenty years I’m embarassed to be a Yankees fan.
Sickened, Outraged, Appalled, Disgusted.
The organization’s smallness, the cowardice, the vindictiveness, the insolence, the contempt their three-day charade displayed for our intelligence.
The little men that run my beloved Yankees team—and I include Brian Cashman now among them—nauseate me.
I urge all of you, if you haven’t already, to read Verducci’s sentiments
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/10/18/torre/index.html
what is backfiring?
I bet.. their net extension is lesser than the 5 to 8 mill range that Joe was leaving on the table…
and Joe T is no spring chicken… makes too much sense..
of finally… 3 straight ALDS exits is not a successful season..
PETE…STOP POSTING
Those cities dont have $200 million dollar payrolls or the talent the Yankees have or have the same expectations or draw 4 million fans…again you and main stream media look foolish.
What would it take for the Yankees to get Mike Scioscia from the Angles
I know it may be an odd time for him to say this, but I would not be surprised if Gary Sheffield comes out with more anti-Joe Torre comments. That’s the whole mantra for Sheffield, saying something about a person who isn’t in position to defend himself. Torre being gone will give Sheffield an opening and the opportunity to shoot his mouth off. I’m sure that he has an extra ax to grind (in his mind) since the Yankees won the Wild Card over his Tigers.
Manny being Manny. LOL
It is a homerun, but if they don’t call it, he is left standing on first. LOL
I wonder if they love him now?
if money is relative, then compare torre’s salary to that of his peers…his new offer is still the highest in the game…by far.
i’m no torre hater, but let’s not get depressed about this.
Ozzie Guiilen is a putz but he won a World Series two years ago for a franchise that had not won a playoff series since Woodrow Wilson was president. Joe Maddon is managing the Deviled Eggs for crying out loud.
The Yankees will look bad because the media hates them and will portray them as evil no matter what they do. Most of the WFAN hosts are Mets fans (always stupid and often vicious). The Daily News is run by Mike Lupica: stupid vicious Mets fan who went to college in Boston and got Jason Whitlock fired from ESPN (NESN2) “Sports Reporters” because he dared to disagree with him. The NY Post hasa lots of Mets fans like Vaccaro and Kernan. They NY Times is part owner of the
I don’t understand how an offer that was still more than twice as much as any other ML manager can be considered insulting. Joe has never been good at managing his pitching staff but he is now failing to properly prepare and motivate his players for the playoffs. He had the most talented squad in baseball and they simply couldn’t handle October. The people who are so traumatized by the low offer to Joe are likely the same ones who were miserable when Bernie didn’t come back. Baseball is a business and any corporation that continues to hire people based on sentimental feelings and fuzzy memories is going to get buried. Joe wasn’t offered a raise because his team has steadily gotten worse. If he feels this is unfair, perhaps he should talk to his colleagues and ask them how they would expect to be treated after coaxing 4 playoff wins out of three $200 million teams.
The team needs a fresh start. Joe was great for the 1990s but things change and so do people.
Easy there Matt, there is nothing to be embarrassed about. Its business. Big business.
If the team has a good year next year, I doubt your embarrassment will last.
Pete,
Don’t you think how they do with re-shaping the roster this off-season will determine how much residual effect this move has in the long run?
For example, if Pettitte, Posada, Rivera and Arod all return, don’t you think a lot of this stuff dies down?
If some of those guys leave, then I could see the move backfiring, at least initially.
I do agree that nobody with any sense bought the dog and pony show today.
I just think doom and gloom predictions about the future are a tad premature.
Don’t they have some kind of rule if you can’t read the letter on the helmet it isn’t allowed. He has so much garbage on there. It isn’t like he doesn’t wear batting gloves!!
ESPN had that up by mistake, Torre is not headed back to Tampa. I just read Verducci’s article on Si.Com. It is a nasty indictment of the new Yankee leadership dominated by Randy Levine. This guy is a total a-hole, but he won his war with Torre. Yes the Yankees on the field will recover, but how out of touch is Levine and the others to think that the 1 year low ball offer that Joe had to refuse makes it look like the parting is Joe’s fault?
I’m afraid Levine makes the Yankees look like the Knicks or the Bush administration. They think the public is stupid and doesn’t require honesty, just spin. It is a really sad day for Yankee fans.
This “respect” bs has taken over the fevered imagination of the media. Like Yankee players would lose all “respect’ for their manager if he only made 5 million dollars or whatever. Like the Yankees have “blood on their hands” and will now enter a new dark age.
Give. Me. A. Break.
I agree sj, if they all return it will basically be forgotten, espically if they make and get far in the post season.
Now if Mo and Po leave the fans will not forget about it. That being said, I think this has no bearing on Alex. I don’t believe Alex cares whether or not Joe came back.
It’s my understanding that after the W.S., teams have a limited time frame that they have exclusive rights to resign their players…..Now that being said, the Yankees have to go through a time consuming interviewing process where they must bring in minority candidates and so forth…..So unless this happens swiftly, they may find themselves trying to resign Mo, Posada, A-Rod without a manager in place before they ( the players ) file for freedom…..I am the only one who sees this as a concern…..
The fans don’t care what Verducci thinks. The fans, due respect, don’t care what Pete thinks either. This is like beltway pundits defending a politician they admire. What will be interesting to see is how the fans who love and support this team feel about a manager who felt a five million dollar offer (six, in truth, and as much as eight in success) was just not enough to get him back in the uniform.
“One year? Goodness, Charlie Manuel, Joe Maddon and Ozzie Guillen were given multiyear contract extensions! No manager of Torre’s resume or dignity would have accepted those conditions and Levine, who wanted Torre out for years, knew it. It was not the money; Torre doesn’t need it. It was knowing that your employers don’t want you, knowing that if another season began 21-29, as this season did, the snipers and leakers would be firing away with impunity. How could he ask respect from his players when his bosses did not respect him?”
Nicely said by Verducci. The beginning of the Levine led era does not look to good.
People said the same stuff when Showalter was canned. Peter Gammons even declared the Yankees were finished for the next 10 year. What happens? They hire Clueless Joe and they win the WS.
Peter, you should know by now the media are idiots.
If Cashman can get his guy in there the Yankees will be fine. Verducci and others are forgetting Joe gets the largest payroll in baseball to play with. Guillen and Manuel don’t have that advantage.
It’s like Pete wrote these so that “Joe Torre” and “Alex Rodriguez” could be interchangeable
What a crock!
The new regime has no balls. Unfortunately the circumstances of Torre’s contract forced them into this situation immediately after taking the helm. And who really is in charge? Levine or Hank? I thought the two brothers were running the show and then Levine steamrolls them at the press conference. For many years we have been spoiled by how efficiently the organization was run by a semi-benevolent dictator (George). Everything was run with precision and attention to detail. I went to spring train in the last two years and was amazed at how clean and well run Legends Field was. They even have people cleaning the rest rooms DURING THE GAME! I’ve never seen that done at any other sports venue.
The next big test for management is the new hire. It will tell us a lot and I hope they handle that better than this event.
Yeah ok…then give him the 3 years at 1.x million they gave to Maddon. Joe has won the same amount of playoff series as Maddon the last 3 years when he was scooping 20+ million.
Guys we all love Joe Torre but he was not worth the highest contract any more. He needs to start over and earn it. They gave him that chance.
Use the 5+ million they’ll save on ARod and the others.
It is indeed a tough day as a Yankee fan. Edging on the promise that they have entered an ugly side of baseball – that is, mistreating someone who was full of dignity. Ugly business is not spending loads of money like Red Sox et.al want you to believe, it;s running the operation as we have seen in the past 72 hours.
I am very distrusting of the corporate face of the Yankees, Randy Levine, and it is disturbing that he became the spokesman today.
Here is a little background on the Yankees’ President, and how he came to be so:
(open the PDF file and search “Levine”)
http://www.goodjobsny.org/Insider_Baseball_Report.pdf
Given the above, a few things about today’s events do not/would not surprise me:
1) There are substantial family and corporate politics at play within the Yankees’ “family”... remember that Torre’s contract was negotiated by Steve Swindell, who is permanently esconced under the bus;
2) On the corporate side, egos and control are the play of the day. With George essentially gone, Levine now is wresting the power at the top of the organization, and we know what he is;
3) Don’t kid yourselves… this is about BILLIONS of dollars. The fans are so inconsequential to this operation, that the egos believe they can a monkey in the dugout and still win (the organization is bigger than the manager);
4) It would not surprise me if Torre has a change of heart, either after talking to his wife, or fielding all of the calls on his cell from his players, saying, to the effect, “screw ‘em Joe, we can win the AL pennant; come back and at least we’ll be in control of our own future. If it doesn’t work, at least we’ll have one more shot. We’ve got nothing to lose.”
Not sure it’ll happen, but something just tells me that this story isn’t finalized yet.
The Yankees made a MORE THAN FAIR offer. $6M if he can get the highest payroll in sports history into the playoffs?
At 68, and a history of poor results when given resources of under $200M, Torre’s got a decent shot at a job as a broadcaster, but not as a manager.
Joe Torre’s winning percentage managing the highest payroll in MLB: .605 (1173 – 767)
Joe Torre’s winning percentage managing Atlanta, the Mets, and St. Louis: .471 (894 – 1003)
I appreciate the run, Joe, but don’t let the door smack you on the way out.
Hughes and Chamberlain’s careers look brighter today, and Viz will save a fortune on his arm insurance premiums.
it’s ok pete, manny was quoted before tonight’s game that torre not returning is not the end of the world.
Ozzie Guiilen is a putz but he won a World Series two years ago for a franchise that had not won a playoff series since Woodrow Wilson was president. Joe Maddon is managing the Deviled Eggs for crying out loud. Verducci’s comparison is poor. That’s to be expected from a guy who says a Hall of Famer should be a great player and wants to put in Gil Hodges who never led the league in anything except sacrifice flys despite playing in two bandboxes.
The Yankees will look bad because the media hates them and will portray them as evil no matter what they do. Most of the WFAN hosts are Mets fans (always stupid and often vicious). The Daily News is run by Mike Lupica: stupid vicious Mets fan who went to college in Boston and got Jason Whitlock fired from ESPN (NESN2) “Sports Reporters” because he dared to disagree with him. The NY Post has lots of Mets fans like Vaccaro and Kernan. They NY Times is part owner of the Boston Red Sox. They conducted a witch hunt of racist hate speech and lies against three not very bright but innocent Duke lacrosse players to fit their political agenda.
Let’s see what the ticket sales will be (probably much the same since 2008 will be last year of rebuilt Yankee stadium and 2009 will be new stadium). Let’s see what Posada, Rivera and A Rod will do although money will be the main factor (it was for Roger Clemens. It could have been when Chuck Knoblauch was traded in 1998. It has always been denied but many such as Buster Olney have felt their was a side deal to give him a contract extension). Players, like managers, LOVE money.
There were plenty of people 12 years ago calling WFAN promising to never visit Yankee stadium because Showalter was dismissed. Whoever becomes Yankee manager has some big shoes to fill. But he also has a good opportunity few managers and coaches are ever offered.
I disagree, this will not be forgotten. I wish they would have shown class as an organization and just said “We respect Joe Torre, he has been one of the best managers in Yankee history over the last 12 years. His record speaks for itself. However, at this time, we want to move the organization in a new direction. Joe is welcome at Yankee Stadium any time and some time soon, we will retire Joe’s number and add a plaque to Monument Park”.
Instead we get bs. It is pathetic.
I think some of you are missing the point. It’s not that it was a pay cut, its that they were offering performance bonus’ to a manager who has been to the playoffs 12 times in a row.
It’s also that they were apparently devising a contract that they knew would turn Joe down and trying to use the leverage of “Hey, we offered Joe a contract” in contract discussions with Jorge and Rivera.
It’s a good damn thing they did this in private, because if these proceedings hit the national media (instead of where are they meeting at in Tampa), it would have been more than egg-on-face.
It was known that Tom Kelley had turned down the job this spring when the Yanks got off to the bad start. Also around baseball it has been known for some time that the Yankee job was Tony laRussas if he wanted it. The Yankees wanted the man who sits next to him Dave Duncan to mold the young Yankee staff. In the Eastern league it was also known that the Yankees did not want to bring up any of their young pitchers while Torre was still the manager. The Joba rule was there to protect him from Torre. By the Yankees actions this season you knew that Torre was gone.
Verducci’s article is spot on.
I won’t pretend to be familiar with big business and office politics, but Torre, who was a hero to some, will probably now become a saint to many.
If Torre signs somewhere, guides that team to the postseason while the Yankees languish or lose in the first round (G-d forbid!) because of no Po/Mo/Arod/Andy/takeyourpick, then the Brass will see just how bad their move was…
For all of you crying a river over Torre’s poor treatment I submit below the salaries of the MLB managers for 2007. Notice that the last four managers who have defeated Joe Torre in the Post season salaries combined do not add up to Joe Torre’s Wedge 1.025 mil. Leyland 2 mil Scioscia 2 mil and Francona 1.65 mil for a whopping total of 6.675 mil to Torre’s 7.5 million…Yeah poor poor Joe Torre. You were all calling for his head in May now he can do no wrong. Time for a new voice in the locker room.
Let’s not say he was wronged here, He turned down the chance to make 8 million dollars in one season for Pride? Where is the Pride of wearing pinstripes? At a minimum he would have earned 6 million and if he did his job and got the Yankees another title he would have gotten a raise. Ask yourself this question. You’re being paid more than double what our peers are being paid and your performance has slipped in recent years. Your boss comes to you and says you may keep your job at a slight pay cut but you will still be the highest paid at what you do by a wide margin…Do you tell your boss to buzz off? or do you thank him for the opportunity to prove yourself worthy of another chance?
Joe Torre, NYY $7.5 million
Lou Piniella, CHC $3.5 million
Bobby Cox, ATL $3 million
Tony La Russa, STL $2.8 million
Mike Scioscia, LAA $2 million
Jim Leyla nd, DET $2 million
Bruce Bochy, SF $1.75 million
Terry Francona, BOS $1.65 million
Phil Garner, HOU $1.5 million
Mike Hargrove, SEA $1.3 million
Ron Gardenhire, MIN $1.25 million
Ozzie Guillen, CHW $1.1 million
Eric Wedge, CLE $1.025 million
Jim Tracy, PIT $1 million
Bob Melvin, ARI $875,000
Buddy Bell, KC $825,000
Ned Yost, MIL $825,000
Clint Hurdle, COL $800,000
Charlie Manuel, PHI $800,000
Willie Randolph, NYM $700,000
Jerry Narron, CIN $600,000
Grady Little, LAD $600,000
Sammy Perlozzo, BAL $600,000
Ron Washington, TEX $600,000
Joe Maddon, TAM $550,000
John Gibbons, TOR $500,000
Manny Acta, WAS $500,000
Bob Geren, OAK $500,000
Jennifer, agreed. I don’t think Torre’s situation would ever have any significance on what Arod will do.
Pat, its about the money, not the manager, with players. I think Joe Torre himself would tell Posada and Rivera to make their decisions independent of his situation.
As long as the Yankees don’t hire a dolt to manage, I don’t see it as a huge issue.
I agree with Verducci in the sense that Rivera and Posada hit the lottery today. They will get huge offers from the Yankees and I believe they will remain with the team.
How in the world is the move backfiring on the Yankees? Because a writer doesn’t like what the organization did? Too bad…this is the richest franchise in all of sports and if the Yankees did bring Torre back it would have only been because of all the pressure from the fans. The bottom line is that they have to do what’s best for the organization, and anyone who thinks Joe Torre is the best manager for the job is crazy.
The game has passed Joe Torre by…if Rivera and Posada want to cry about it and follow Joe all around the globe to wherever he manages, then they can feel free to. The bottom line is that this team has embarassed themselves in the postseason for the past several years and a change was needed.
You make it sound like the bar is set so high for the next manager or something. Whether it’s Mattingly or Girardi, all he has to do is get into the postseason and he’s already accomplished the exact same thing Torre has done for us the past 3 years.
Torre was given more than enough time to get this team back to the World Series AT LEAST. Steinbrenner expects the very best and I don’t know any manager in baseball who would have survived the monumental collapse that we went through in 2004.
Torre backed the Yankees into a corner. The fans and media all wanted him back when it clearly wasn’t the best option. Thanks for the 4 rings Joe, but it’s certainly a case of “what have you done for me lately?” And the answer to that is absolutely nothing.
No one is bigger than the Yankees, not even Babe Ruth. So stop the moaning about Torre. I want a manager that can manage the bullpen, give young players a real chance (not out of extreme necessity, but because it is the right time), I want the mix of small ball and long balls (not the fake appeasing kind either), and I dont care if it turns into the Bronx Zoo, I want championships and a fire under these players a***s, no more lovey dovey stuff.
Why do you all keep mentioning the 5,6,7 Million dollar offer. It’s all about the years fellas.
Torre didn’t deserve to be offered another lame duck contract.
They should of fired him right after the ALDS if their intention was for him not to return. Instead they made it a show and they gave him a “Set-up” 1 year deal that everybody knew he would decline and rightfully so.
It’s not about the money, if it was he would of took the deal. He’s 67, he’s not going to get that kind of money anywhere else. Stop playing the money card.
I also find it funny that, as Yankee fans, some of the people on here are quoting Torre’s salary. Really… is that what is making it okay for you?
You really care that he is making 4 million more than the next guy? (Other than the fact his contract is back loaded so probably not even 4 more technically).
That, to me, is such a silly argument.
The only problem with the LaRussa theory is Dave Duncan isn’t available. He has one more year to go on his contract with the Cardinals.
Meaning, if the Yankees wanted LaRussa, Duncan isn’t part of the deal. That’s why I don’t believe LaRussa is an option at this time.
I don’t get it. Again I love Joe but he’s gotten $30+ million over 6 years with no world series rings to show even though he’s had well over $1billion in salary while the next highest club was just a bit better than half of that in the same time frame. He got the players he wanted (see Moose, ARod, Clemens) but could not do it. Yes he helped them make the playoffs this year after a slow start but he oversaw that slow start. His performance does not warrant multiple years at 30% higher than the next highest guy. It just doesn’t.
I want it to but it doesn’t!
Lets forget the emotion and Yankee Pride BS and focus on real results given the players he’s had.
Lets all love him and wish him well.
And you know what else, we should be ready for a longer drought of championships, as much as I want them. The young guns are gonna take a while, but its an investment worth waiting for.
You go that right re: Po and Mo. The Yankees will hear the backlash and know they have to keep both of them without fail.
In actuality, Randy Levine is holding the same position he’s had for several years, President of the team. The real reason he or anybody else has had such high profile is because the Yankees haven’t had much to do in the way of managerial decisions since ‘95.
I think it is more the number of years. If the Yankees offered him 2/10 you wouldn’t hear people complaining. In fact I think Joe would have taken it. But because it was only a one year contract he turned it down.
All I have to say is Joe Torre is a true Yankee! We will miss you Joe.
Exactly Jeff NJ. I don’t have a problem with them deciding to go forward without Torre. It’s not what I would have done but I can understand it. But 10 days to make an offer you know will be turned down to try and win a PR war? Did they really think we would’nt all see right through that nonsense.
torre apologists/defendants…pure amusement
get a clue!
he should have been gone after 05
instead we get:
no but joes a nice guy…he got us to 12 straight postseasons…HAAAAAA what a bunch of crap.
Wow, Willie Randolph was in bottom of the “pay scale”
now that ain’t right, seeing da Mets have 3rd highest payroll.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=nyy
It is backfiring because many of the folks who follow this game the closest, the sportswriters, are going to trash it. They know that Joe deserved more respect than this. Tim McCarver, love him or hate him, just said on TV that the Yankees are “rudderless” . That went out to millions of people, who know and trust McCarver. Jon Heyman at SI offers a much different view than Verducci, but his article is basically a “can’t we all get along” type of post, as if this is good for all sides. It isn’t. Folks who wanted Torre back, warts and all, will be outraged when they read the types of analyses that Pete and others will accurately convey.
The Yankees come off very low class, very conniving in this matter.
What does this mean—“backfiring”? Are the Yankees going to lose any fans because of this? Are they going to lose any revenue (not if they keep winning, which was not a given even if Torre had stayed)? I say no to both; this will blow over by the end of the weekend.
The only group that this is possibly “backfiring” on is you guys in the media who are worried that you might have to deal with someone who isn’t as “nice” a guy as Torre.
Look people, no one is arguing that a change might be needed. It’s debatable, but today all people are saying is that the way the Yankees gave a bs offer to Joe to make him look like the bad guy was just pathetic. Think about if the situation was reversed, how would Joe have handled it? He would have praised the man and talked about how respected he was, but that’s baseball. He would not have made an offer he knew would be refused.
My beloved Yankees showed no class today. I just hope people don’t become indifferent to them like many of us have since the Knicks have been under terrible management.
Was it a pay cut? Yes.
Do they have blood on their hands? Yes.
Does it really matter? No.
Has any Yankee manager ever departed gracefully? No.
Are the Yankees poised to win a lot of games next year no matter who manages, so long as they keep most of the current roster? Yes.
Will they keep the current roster? Who knows?
Will they have awesome pitching? Yes, unless they trade it all away, which will not happen.
Does pitching win games? Yes.
Will we miss Joe? Yes.
Will we embrace the next manager? Yes.
Does life go on? Yes.
Is it time to stop wallowing in maudlin nostalgia and get on with life? Yes.
GO YANKEES!
What do you mean it’s years not Money? Years = money…If the Yankees gave him a three year deal and the Yankees stink it up for the last two…Torre’s got his cash and the yankees are left holding the bag. He’s 68 years old, how many freakin years do you want to give him? He has been rewarded several times over for the 4 rings, the class and all the other stuff. As I said earlier the last 4 managers who absolutely out-managed him in the post season make less than him when their salaries are combined!!!!! BO FREAKIN WHO!!!!
Global Warming, I see it the same way….Money was not the true issue..It was a tool of course, but this was about principle and pride….If you don’t want him back then say so and be professional about it….This is total BS…How nieve and stupid does the new power brokers that run the team think the Yankee fan base is…....Earlier I mentioned the time frame to resign soon to be free agents…Any comments about not a manager in place….
Whoever said the sports media functions like the inside the beltway political media is spot on. It’s a herd inside an echo chamber.
They rarely deviate from the established narrative, in which Joe Torre is practically a saint and must be “respected” and given a lifetime contract, and the Yankee organization is evil and has collective “blood on their hands” because they don’t give “respect” and force their victims to “twist in the wind” blah blah woof woof… I get it already.
“My beloved Yankees showed no class today. I just hope people don’t become indifferent to them like many of us have since the Knicks have been under terrible management.”
The Yankees win. The Knicks don’t. The Yankees put a great product on the field every year. The Knicks don’t. People are obsessed with the Yankees because they are the biggest sports franchise in America. The Knicks aren’t.
Don’t be silly enough to compare the two.
Wow, Kenny Williams makes a huge mistake by extending Guillen, and that’s the bar that the Yankees are supposed to go by?
Straws. You grasp at them.
Ozzie Guillen and Joe Maddon’s situations are nothing like Torre’s. Their multi-year extensions speak to how poorly run those organizations are. Ozzie Guillen is probably the worst manager in baseball, although now that Dusty is back it’s a close race.
Apples and Oranges.
For the Nth time, IT’S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY! Not for either side.
If it was, Yanks would know that by saving $2.5mill on Joe, they would have to spend more than that to smooth things out with Mo and Jorge on their contract negotiation.
If it was about the money, there would have been a real negotiation going on. Not “oh you don’t like this? K, B’bye.”
If it was about the money, Joe won’t be going to another team to manage for $4 mill or less (this hasn’t happened yet. but just watch)
Verducci is not the only one saying this is dirty play/PR spin. Everyone is, even Michael Kay, who is under Yanks payroll. Every media outlet and commentator…you think they sent around a script today agreeing to all say the exact same thing? I’m not saying believe everything you hear, but when it reeks of fish and everyone is calling fowl, you need to wonder.
“I don’t understand how an offer that was still more than twice as much as any other ML manager can be considered insulting.”
Are people really thinking this is an argument that can be won?
OK, first off – If you insist on comparing the salary offer presented to Joe with those of other managers, let’s look at the accomplishments of those managers. Joe Torre’s teams made it into the postseason every year that he managed. Twelve years in a row. They went to the WS six times, winning 4 of them. Now, quick – name another manager that can even come close to that with one team. Bzzzzt! You can’t, can you? OK, so you want to argue that we couldn’t get past the first round of the playoffs the last 4 years. Fine. Name one MLB team that has been to the playoffs the last 4 years in a row, period. Ooops, can’t do that either. Yes, we all want to go to the WS and win as often as we can. But how many people that WORK in MLB do we need to hear say how hard it is just to get to the playoffs, much less to the WS and win it before we finally admit that it is unreasonable to expect to win every year? Every other franchise in MLB would LOVE to have the track record that NY has had over these last few “disastrous” seasons.
Next, somebody please post a link to an article or provide some other proof that Torre turned this offer down simply because of the salary figure. Bzzzt! You can’t do that either.
Disliking Torre and/or wanting him gone is one thing in itself, of which everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to not really look at the way this offer was structured and in turn not see how it was insulting is just being blind. It’s not about the $5 million figure that we’d all love to have. It’s about the principle of taking a pay cut AND being given a mere one year contract AND the contingency of “performance incentives”. OK, so there are players out there with incentive loaded contracts. The question is posed “Why shouldn’t a manager have one?” Fair enough, but the fact is there are no precedents for that, and Torre’s resume should NOT be the one used to set the example with for the first time. Give that to someone like Ozzie Guillen whose team tanks right after winning the WS instead of giving him a multiyear extension. He didn’t win anything before that year and he hasn’t won anything since. Furthermore, the Yankees as an organization don’t put performance clauses/incentives into the contracts of their players. But it’s acceptable to change that trend for their manager?
And let’s stop with the comparisons to rudimentary economics in the employment world as we know it. Professionl sports, including baseball, are an entirely different animal. The dynamics of salaries in “regular occupations” cannot be used as a model. It’s a comparison of apples and oranges.
Some of you just don’t get it. Under Joe Torre the Yankee brand had become associated with “class”. Does no one remember the Stump Merrill/Mel Hall days, when some prime free agents did not want to come to New York regardless of the money?
The point is simple: the Yankees could have gotten rid of Joe Torre a lot of better ways then they did. They chose a method that they think gives them cover. It does not. Even you Torre haters can see that—you don’t offer the man a pay cut after a season where it looked like we would be below 500. Don’t you remember the posts on this blog about whether we should be buyers or sellers before the trade deadline?
Let’s hope the Yanks front office learns from this. But since Curly Levine has been around quite a while, I don’t have much hope.
Why are so many here embarassed to be a Yankee fan? How did Levine show disrespect? Why the hell are the Yankees painted as villians?
Oh, because they didn’t offer Torre multiple years or they had the nerve to tie compensation to performance and they also stooped to forcing him to take a base salary that was only $5ml. Yes, bad bad Yankees brass they should be ashamed of themselves treating this like a business and making an offer to the field leader to produce. That is bad business, bad for the fans of NY and bad for the network to try to hire a manager that is representing the number 1 team in all of sports. I totally understand this outrage.
NOT!! Give me a break, already.
Great.. Verducci’s column shows the doom thats going to engulf Bronx..
read that column.. not only was Verducci coming across as a clown but also a little emotional.. i am sure Peter Gammons is firing away at one key per minute that this will relegate the Yanks to 4th place next year.. just like he predicted that Yanks are doomed when Torre was hired..
i think Andy and Posada will be back.. Mo will create some drama but he will be back too..
last i checked u play for the team and not A manager.. no matter how much u like him
Bobcat:
Excellent pull on that pdf from “goodjobsny.” None of that is a secret among the City elites, but hopefully the bloggies here take a moment and read up. You did a great public service there.
Levine’s job was originally to deliver the New Stadium. For now he has stepped into the power vacuum created by George’s failing health. Until the new stadium is done, Randy is to George what Rasputin was to Nicholas and Alexandra. It’ll be interesting to watch.
This is about respect. This isn’t about the money.
For those who think it is about $, think about it this way.
If instead of your boss handing you your paycheck, they instead buried it under a large pile of manure and said you needed to use your teeth to retrieve it.
Some would decide to dive in head first; afterall it is a paycheck. Others might decide that they worked hard for the company, put forward your best effort and deserved to be treated better than that.
This contract extension was presented to Torre under a pile of manure and Torre decided he had already had enough BS.
I’m embarassed…by some of you dopey yankee fans whining over this move
as much as you remember 96-00, do you forget 01-07? esp 03 and 04 and the last 3 1st round exits?
everyone says he was 4-6 in WS…i like to think he was 6-7…he should get credit for the marlins and sox victories, he was responsible for them
he walked into a gold mine and finished horridly
Again, there are not a lot of “critical readers” on the blog tonight. Yankees21, I’ll type slowly since I know you don’t read too fast:
The Yankees gave Joe an offer he HAD to refuse. It is that simple. Levine and Company want all the fans to think it was a good offer. Sportswriters like Pete and Verducci recognize it for what it was—a poisin pill that Joe just could not swallow.
Our Yanks showed no class. And that makes me sad. They could have done this a number of other ways, and they chose a method that stinks.
Yes, we will move on. But this is the worst PR move they could have made and it makes our team look very small.
As much as I was looking forward to having a manager with a discernable pulse in the Yankee dugout next season, had I known that by “insulting” Joe Torre in this manner the national sports media and scores of bloggers would go into mass hysteria and suicide watch I’d have said screw it and give the guy two more years for gods sakes.
Even someone who didn’t want Joe back or particularly care for him should be able to recognize a sleezy play when they see one. Verducci and Pete are right on. Global Warming and Pat M too. But Pat, unfortunately some fans are buying the Yankee power brokers “we tried, but he’s too greedy” crap cuz they are all hung up on the $$$. Too bad. Levine and gang are counting on short memories and low IQ’s – hope they are wrong.
Thanks Pete. That article hit it right on. NO CLASS! And I really wish you people would shut up about the money. READ MY LIPS——-IT’S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY!!!! Can’t you see beyond that or are you so boggled when we talk about millions that your brain stops working? It was about how he was treated, with no respect whatsoever for getting us to the postseason every year!!! When has another manager done that? Who in the world do you think can do that again? It’s NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Those IDIOTS in Tampa had better be crawling on their hands and knees to Joe to make it right or all the flack we take as Yankees fans will now be justified. Very low class!
The whole thing today wasn’t handled perfectly, to say the least but it’s not like people will no longer want to come to New York. The Yankees have unlimited resources that are capable of attracting anybody. Maybe their treatment of Joe Torre wasn’t good at times, but Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis is known for his troubles with coaches and he still is able to find people to coach his team. The next manager or coach in line is always thinking “even though things didn’t go right for that guy, doesn’t mean that I will have trouble with the front office.”
put yourself in joe torre’s shoes.
if you were him, knowing what you had accomplished for this franchise, would you accept a PAY CUT?
principles, and the new yankees brass have proved that they have none.
Couldn’t agree more with Jimbo. I think most of those who were happy to see Torre go are too young to remember the Dallas Green days,let alone the Ralph Houk era.
This is an embarrasing day for Yankee fans who are smart enough to appreciate the class and dignity Joe Torre brought the Yankees and what that meant to fans like myself as well as the players. The rest of you are about to find out the repercussions of having a baseball illiterate, bombastic blowhard like Randy Levine running the organization.
backfiring? why? because some writers think so?
There’s an old saying and it goes like this. Whenever anyone says it’s not about the money….
But okay, I see it now, after all you put in caps.
So, unhappy with the way the team performed in the playoffs again, the Yankee organization decides they’d rather go in a new direction, but the beloved old manager who hasn’t gotten out of the first round in three years wants to manage a little longer. Maybe close out the old stadium and ring in the new. Climb a bit higher in the record book. In that case, offering a one year deal with incentives and a club option sounds like the way to go, no?
Answer: No, because it’s evil and insulting and disrespectful and low rent and…...
J-Dawg, Your credibility was gone once you mentioned the NY Yankees with Al Davis & the Feeble Oakland Raiders…Very much a stretch comparison…..I do see the point you were trying to make….
Please don’t be so gullible. This deal says YOU ARE ON PROBATION, YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOU ARE MOTIVATED.
Believing Levine’s “we tried to keep him, really” is like believing in WMD.
I’m not even resistant to a Joe Girardi coming in. Sure maybe a youth movement is what we need. But, please, do it with some class.
Never thought I would say this but I almost wish they had been honest and just fired Joe than offering him this prove-your-worth, slap-in-the-face deal.
This Yankee fan remembers Dallas Green and Ralph Houk. And Horace Clarke and Celerino Sanchez. And Mickey Mantle and Reggie Jackson. The Yankees will be fine, Torre or no. I’m not so sure about some of you guys though, geez
Joey Baga… clearly you aren’t paying attention. If it’s true that “unhappy with the way the team performed in the playoffs again, the Yankee organization decides they’d rather go in a new direction”—why didn’t they just do that – go in a new direction. Why bother with the crappy offer? That’s the point. Gutless & slimey, i.e. put the decision off on someone else. And try to make the other guy look bad (read greedy) in the process. Low rent indeed.
Oops, I’m not saying that the Yankees are nearly as bad to their coaches/managers as the Oakland Raiders, I’m just saying that they will always be viewed as attractive to the average managerial candidate. I was not trying to make them look like Al Davis by any means. I may have got my words mixed up. Definitely not the first time that that has happened.
Joey Bagadonuts,,,I to recall those and dreary days of post Mic & post Reg…Infact in was dark decades if I’m not mistaken….
Pete you are really sounding like a little kid who lost a toy right now man… If the next manager gets the Yanks to the postseason he has done the same thing Joe has done the last 3 seasons. if he gets further then WOW we got someone better. Who nows lets calm down and wait to see who the Yanks pick til we throw judgements… It has to be Donnie though!!
How DARE the Yankees be a better run organzation than other teams and not offer a 67 year old man a multiyear contract?!?!?!? If you get an offer to be the highest paid man in your occupation, count your lucky stars.
Because on the planet I live on it’s not a crappy offer. Of course if you have a place on Maui and share the same worldview as Scott Boras and your typical hedge fund manager maybe it’s downright offensive.
I think this all goes back to Steinbrenner’s unscripted outburst. The Yankees wanted new blood in the dugout but got boxed in by George having a sudden lucid moment and the consequent negative public reaction and decided to go ahead and make Joe an offer, but on their terms, such as it is.
Some of this is on Joe too. Knowing the Yankees wanted to make a change he could have retired gracefully, but decided to walk like Bernie, who also thought it beneath him to
compete for his money and contract.
I’ll be surprised if Joe manages somewhere else.
Yes, I can see it now. If the Yankees had not made that crappy offer, but instead simply said it’s been great but we’re hiring someone else, everyone here and inside the sports beltway would have been just fine with it. Good going Yankees! At least you “respected” Joe. Except for that twisting in the wind stuff of course, but no blood on the hands this way! It’s just that damn crappy insulting disrepectful offer to manage the New York Yankees for 5 million bucks. Yeah, I know it’s not the money, save it.
A bad, bad move, gracelessly executed and beneath all concerned. If the Yankees didn’t want Joe back, they could have just thanked him for his services and wished him all the best in his future endeavors. There was no need for this seventh grade mean girl gamesmanship. And please stop with the performance-based model nonsense – no one really believes it. All in all, a classless and needlessly petty performance by the Yankees front office. It will serve them right if they end up paying through the nose to keep Mo and Jorge as a result.
In other baseball news, Cleveland has done their best to make sure the ALDS gets back to Boston. CC couldn’t hold a 1-0 lead, while Beckett had thrown 80-something pitches through 7. And now having coughed it up in the 8th, they’re down by 6 in the 9th. Amazing how fast things can turn ugly . . . Good luck to Fausto Carmona trying to shut the door in Fenway. Maybe they should pitch Paul Bird on short rest . . .
I cant read through all 84 or wahetever comments, so this may have been said, but what makes the fact that Ozzie Guillen and Joe Maddon were given multi-year extentions right? Weren’t people laughing when Reinsdorf gave Guillen his extention? I know I was.
Maddon, I can understand. Different situation with a young team growing and a franchise finally trying to build with pitching.
But Teflon Torre has not fulfilled his job expectations for 7 years now. I’m not saying the job expectations are right, but you cant argue that he failed at his boss’s goal… and I just cant feel bad for a guy who turned down what would have been really $6 million for a year to coach a baseball team. He was still the highest paid manager in the game, by more than $1.5 million at the minimum.
“The rest of you are about to find out the repercussions of having a baseball illiterate, bombastic blowhard like Randy Levine running the organization.”
Hahahaha this is the funniest thing I’ve ever read on this blog! Are you SERIOUS??? 2008 will be the 25th Anniversary of EXACTLY that kind of leadership.
This is one of those threads that is going to be hilarious to read again in May when the Yankees have a six-game lead.
Enough with tke sky is falling already. Doesn’t anybody even remember the panic surrounding Buck’s departure thirteen years ago? Give me a break.
Sorry – 35TH anniversary!!
Pete, thanks for the tip on the Verducci article. There’s no baseball writer I respect more than him. It was an excellent piece and it definitely makes you worry about a return to the CBS days.
If a player does not perform, his next contract will be lower. Giambi is scheduled to make $22m in the last year of his contract. Giambi didn’t perform so he will take a big reduction in his next contract. So does Torre think he is the exception? He didn’t perform so he should take a pay cut just like a player would. Torre still would be the highest paid manager. Pinella is the next highest paid manager at $3.5M If Torre wants to go anywhere else, he will take a even bigger pay cut.
Managers don’t stay forever, and the only thing that’s “embarassing” is the media coverage of this whole thing. I guess if a guy is nice to the beat writers for a few years, he’ll be written about as if he’s entitled to have his contract renewed in perpetuity despite being a HORRIFIC on-field manager.
If Posada & Rivera wish to leave because of what happened to Joe Torre, then there’s nothing that can be done to stop them. You can not have the players dictating the rules and direction of the team aka the inmates running the asylum.
The bright side to all these guys leaving; Posada, Rivera, Pettitte, and A-Rod, to name a few, is that the Yankees will be reimburshed with a boatload of 2008 1st round draft picks.
I’m sad that Joe isn’t coming back and they didn’t negotiate but I can see the other side too, the one that thinks this article is over the top…because it is.
In 2005 Torre totally screwed with the lineup going into the playoffs and they were eliminated. If they fired him last year, I would have said good riddance. This year he didn’t screw with it but he left Joba out there during the bug crisis. But that’s not a reason to fire him.
The bullpen mismangement? maybe. That’s a biggie…
But other than the Joba rules did anyone ever tell him to stop burning out the bullpen? His use of the bullpen and Mo was sometimes head scratching. Did he tell Posada to stop trying to steal bases? I don’t know but he should have. The man is slow as anything. There were other decisions that seemed a bit crazy.
But overall they kept plugging and they made it to the playoffs after being FOURTEEN and a half games back in May.
Was that to Torre’s credit? the players said it was…but the players said when they lost the playoffs that he doesn’t pitch or bat so don’t blame him…so which is it? Did he manage the wins and not have anything to do with the losses?
I don’t know.
I think there is a middle ground somewhere and I wish they’d all take it. I think there is blame for everyone.
I meant 2006…sorry! My years get away from me.