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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Shocking day marks end of an era

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Podcast on Oct 18, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It’s hard to be shocked these days, but this came out of the blue.

Joe Torre obviously felt he was worth more than what the Yankees were offering him. A $5 million salary with $3 million in incentives is certainly not a disrespectful offer. But after making $7.5 million this season, Torre obviously felt he was worth more.

Both sides have a point. Torre took a team that had very little pitching and won 94 games. The Yankees were a mess 50 games into the season and he turned them around.

Say what you will about his in-game decisions, but the Yankees had nearly a quarter of their games started by the likes of Kei Igawa, Sean Henn, Tyler Clippard, Matt DeSalvo, Darrell Rasner, Jeff Karstens, Carl Pavano and Chase Wright.

Torre’s bullpen was Mariano Rivera and hold on tight. It wasn’t his call to bring in unreliable Kyle Farnsworth and castoffs like Brian Bruney and Edwar Ramirez. His best lefty reliever was Ron Villone.

But if you’re the Steinbrenners, your business model is built on making the World Series every few years. For whatever reason, the Yankees have been a lesser team in October the last three years. Can a new manager change that? I guess we’ll find out.

That is if the Yankees make the playoffs. The Yankees are not going to be the same team without Torre’s leadership to smooth over the rough spots of a season. As Don Mattingly said last week, Torre has a way of identifying problems and solving them before they become major issues.

As of today, the odds of Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada and Rivera returning just got longer. Money talks but if at least one of those players walked, it would not be a surprise now. All three of those players were Torre diehards.

A lot of Yankee fans think October is automatic. Don’t be so sure. There are a lot of teams getting better in the American League. Without Joe Torre as manager, the Yankees just got worse.

Don’t believe me? Believe the Yankees. Torre was the man they wanted as manager. Whoever gets hired now is the second choice. Good start for that guy.

Here is the audio of the conference call:

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233 Responses to “Shocking day marks end of an era”

  1. Senor A. Boy October 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    A sad day for sure.

  2. Rebecca--Nothing Beats Optimism October 18th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    I’ve never taken October for granted.

    Looks like a few other people will soon learn it, as well

  3. kd October 18th, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    this is a very sad day in yankee land. we’ll miss him

  4. Bob October 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    Sad day, but not a day to panic.

    Most of us love Torre, but still realized it was probably time for a change. He was a great manager, but he was far from perfect. Sure there were lots of other factors, but at the end of the day this team has underachieved since that night Torre brought Weaver into that Marlins WS game.

  5. nate c. October 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    i was sure they’d bring him back because of the players allegiance to him.

    this is going to be an interesting winter.

  6. deadrody October 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    “Torre’s bullpen was Mariano Rivera and hold on tight”

    Wrong. It Was Mo and “hhmmmm… who is the reliever I will burn out completely this month ?”

    When Vizcaino finally went down late in the season, he had already pitched in back to back games 22 times.

    Any issues Joe had in the bullpen were self inflicted.

    I don’t personally consider this a “SAD” day. It’s time to move on. It’s more sad that the yankees haven’t gotten out of the first round of the playoffs in 3 straight years.

  7. Gibb October 18th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    way to post the most depressing three paragraphs ever.

  8. Rich Myers October 18th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    For over a decade the man annually delivered post season results and led several over achieving and one great (’98) team to championships – a percentage unmatched since the Yankee’s of the 50′s. He was classy and stablized the franchise – brought nation-wide admiration to the most hated team in sports and outshown ownership by far.

    For that he derserved to close out the old stadium and open the new. The next generation od Steinbreners proved today that they are no smarter or less egotistical than their shell of an arrogant father.

    Let’s see if Andy, Mo and Jorge make them pay for their arrogance.

    Thanks for the life-long memories of a great run Joe.

  9. EdWhitson October 18th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    We had the best record in 1994 and made the playoffs in 1995. There is life after Joe. Admit it or not, we layed down in the playoffs in 2004 – 2007. Somebody needs to answer for that.

  10. Cup O Joe October 18th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    Good to see a class-act walk out on his terms. Not on the Nazi regime’s terms. Good Luck JOE!

    Say bye to Mo and Passedball Posada.

  11. J Hof October 18th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    I will not be at all surprised if Mo, Posada and Pettite all walk. The Yankees owe Joe respect and I’m not sure their offer will be perceived as such by these guys. My guess is that Joe was not pleased with only being offered a contract which was guaranteed for one year.

  12. Thomas October 18th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    WOW, what a day! It will be tough to continue with playoff days. It is not as easy as everyone thinks and for those who were against Torre, lets see what you say next year.

    Torre has been made out to be a bullpen killer but Peter has never shown what other clubs have done. Betacourt pitched 79 innings (four more than the viz) this year after only throwing 56 last year. Perez has thrown 60 after only 12 last year. LaRussa has one of his guys up to 80 and NOONE has said anything about those managers blowing out the pen!!!

    Well I guess Torre will not be around to hear any of that stuff again. Maybe now Mazzone will hear about it.

  13. Wolf In Pinstripes October 18th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    I don’t think it came down to money for him. I think it was a combination of the length of the deal, a pay cut, and the notion that he had to earn the incentives. It’s all those things wrapped up together that makes it a deal he could refuse, which is what I think the Yankees could have possibly been trying to do so that they didn’t look even worse in the media right now.

    I think Joe has more class than to turn this offer down strictly based on money. They were basically telling him that he had to earn their faith again, which I would personally take as an insult after taking a team to the playoffs 12 straight years and having fans and players alike publicly stating their adoration for me. During the conference call, it was said that no one person was to blame and that they all shared responsibility. yet they had just offered him a contract structure that contradicted that.

  14. PL October 18th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    Wow, the new manager will be on a short leash. Will he get an incentive-based plan based on rounds of the postseason?

  15. GreenTeaSucks October 18th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    It wasn’t his fault they started out 21-29 but he was the reason they turned it around? Makes sense. Had nothing to do with the lefty bats starting to hit. It was all Torre.

  16. YankeesLuv October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    I never think the playoffs are automatic.
    honestly the Yankees wouldn’t even have made the playoffs this year without Arod, that wasn’t Torre. I like Torre but I’m not going to act like the world ends. It as going to happen at some point. The Yankees existed before Torre and will after him.

  17. #9 October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    Cashman said that the interview process for new manager will take a long time.

    Wonder how that makes Mattingly feel?

  18. Global Warming October 18th, 2007 at 5:24 pm

    Woah looks like I missed a bunch, figures too.

    Anyway, a sad day indeed.

    Now I have 2 thoughts. One being that Torre just decided he’s done from baseball/he wants to manage or take another position somewhere else.

    Or two being that Torre wanted his old salary and the Yankees said no to that. That to me is a little fishy, your the Yankees with your 200 million dollar payroll and you can’t pony up 2 mil?

    Oh well, let the Donnie Baseball era begin I guess.

  19. TK_NYY October 18th, 2007 at 5:24 pm

    Fair offer they say? They’re a bunch of lying sacks of garbage. If they wanted him back, they would have given him his original salary. They offered it with a paycut so they could fire him without looking bad. The press better pound them for this.

  20. Carrying On October 18th, 2007 at 5:24 pm

    Whatever, bye Joe the Empire will just have to live on without you.

  21. Brendon October 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    i see peter on espn!

  22. Global Warming October 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    “It wasn’t his fault they started out 21-29 but he was the reason they turned it around? Makes sense. Had nothing to do with the lefty bats starting to hit. It was all Torre.”

    Or you know, the whole 3/5 of your starting rotation injured thing.

  23. Will October 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    Thanks for memories Joe, but now it’s time to go in another direction. A change of managers was long over due, so thankfully Joe made the decision that the organization wasn’t willing to. I am just surprised that money/years trumped Joe’s desire to manage this team, even if only for one more season.

  24. 2Yankees143 October 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    New stadium, new manager, new team, lets start off with good vibes. Sad to see Joe go but the time has come and I’m glad he left as his own decision, I would have hated to see him fired so if this what he wants I wish him all the best Go Yankees! (with whomever the manager may be)

  25. SJ44 October 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pm


    No question, October is not a guarantee. Playoff baseball is not a guarantee whomever manages the Yankees.

    Its a team in transition right now, with the key question being, “Is Joe Torre the right guy to lead them through this transition”?

    I think its a legitimate question and the answer isn’t just a “yes” out of the blue.

    I subscribe to the John Madden Theory of coaching. After 10+ years in one place, no matter how good you are, you lose effectiveness.

    I believe they do need new blood in the manager’s office. I fully realize people hate change and replacing Joe Torre is no small task.

    Its why its imperative for the Yankees to conduct a full search and get the best guy for the job, regardless of how long it takes.

    Unfortunately, no matter how this was going to go down, it was going to end badly.

    The team has kind of stagnated the last couple of years and, at 67 years old, its not like you can look at him being the manager the next 5-10 years.

    I would have liked to have seen this thing play out in a way that would have kept him in the organization. He deserved that much.

    But, as we both know, Randy Levine is not a Torre guy and he is very much a Steinbrenner guy. That probably played a big, big role in this entire thing.

  26. Robert O'Kelly October 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    The TBS announcers during the ALDS repeatedly said crowds were “stunned” when it wasn’t quite true. Right now I think it’s true. Any insight as to whether this was known by the organization all day (or the past few days)? What’s with the leaks of a 1yr deal, then 5 minutes later – news that Torre turns it down? It was as though he sprung it on them, which I find hard to believe. In any case, he’ll be a lot more appreciated next year, regardless of who is filling out the lineup card.

    I’ve known one Yankee manager since I was 16, and he embodied the dignity, class, and winning that make the Yankees different. I’m not saying other teams don’t have those qualities, but Torre wouldn’t put up with Manny’s BS for long, any more than (I’m guessing) DiMaggio would have, or Jeter would, and that made him, and the Yankees, a lot easier to root for.

  27. Will October 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    How anyone could think $5mn is an insult is beyond me. Even with the cut, he’d still be the highest paid manager in baseball. The fact that he could make an extra $3mn by making the World Series (more than most managers make) makes his decision all the more perplexing. I think Torre has become intoxicated by his celebrity and stature.

  28. YankeeJosh October 18th, 2007 at 5:27 pm

    Don’t believe me? Believe the Yankees. Torre was the man they wanted as manager. Whoever gets hired now is the second choice. Good start for that guy.

    Peter, I’m not so sure. If Torre was really the guy they wanted as manager they’d have offered at least a 2 year contract. One year has lame duck written all over it.

    Personally, I’m indifferent on the move. I would have been okay if he came back, or okay if he left. But there’s a distinct possibility that this offer was made with the hopes Joe would turn it down so the Yankees could say “we tried, but now have to move on.”

    Also, let’s see how the managerial search goes. Two years ago, Theo Epstein was out as GM of the Sox before being brought back. Things change. Until there’s a new manager hired, it’s unfair to write off Torre. Things are not always what they seem, as everyone reported Joe was back just a few hours ago.

  29. TomP October 18th, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    I think what was disrespectful was that he was only offered a single year extension. I can’t believe he balked at the money, which would still have been an enormous amount for a manager.

  30. Sherri October 18th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    I’m very sad to hear this. I was really hoping he would be back, but I can’t say I blame him for turning him down. Now, we will truly find out his worth. :(

  31. gnome October 18th, 2007 at 5:29 pm


    well, steinbrenner did bring billy martin back…maybe in a few days he (they) will realize how much they really do need him and will amend the offer…

  32. mike October 18th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    It’s weird for me to picture the yankees with another manager. All but a few of the years I have been a fan of the team, he has been the manager. I think this is good for the team though. There’s no way to quantify how much his “calming” presence and all the other stuff that people praise him for, helps the team. I do think that his questionable decisions on the field during the games costs the team a couple games a year though. For that I am glad he is gone. I am skeptical that Mattingly is the best choice though.

    THe players are all grown men. I think too much emphasis is put on what Joe brings to the team off the field. He’s not coaching a high school team.

  33. susan mullen October 18th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    The performance contingencies were cute–the guys who wanted Torre out had to know he’d turn it down. They want Piniella? Soriano still made the last out in his postseason. The whole group down there makes my skin crawl, starting with Randy Levine. Bill Madden asked about implications with “Rivera and Posada,” and Cashman referenced that certain players have said they wanted to be “Yankees for life.” I had a feeling he’d remember that.

  34. GreenTeaSucks October 18th, 2007 at 5:30 pm

    Global Warming: So Joe Torre now has the power to heal starting pitchers arms?

  35. Jim Clark October 18th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

    Good luck finding another job where you can make a guaranteed $5 million. Maybe you can take the Cardinal job where Brandon Looper is in the starting rotation. Get the Mets job where the GM lets Delgado, LoDuca and Reyes not hustle and choke a playoff spot. Torre did a lot of good things but fell victim to his pride and greed.

  36. Travis October 18th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

    If the Yankees REALLY wanted Joe to stay, they would have offered him two years, not one.

    Thanks for a great decade, Joe!

  37. Eric Young October 18th, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    It is a strange turn of events…Torre and Cash fly all the way to Tampa to turn down the offer? That’s not how things work.

    Peter – can you find out if the flight down was with the intention of inking a deal and something occurred in the face-to-face that blew it up?

    It does seem a reasonable scenario that would explain the unique way this unfolded.

  38. Bobcat October 18th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

    A couple of thoughts:

    1) Don’t kid yourselves, this was a calculated corporate decision to try (in vain) to make the Yankees look like they wanted Torre back without being able to harness his popularity and effectiveness, but in reality, they knew he wouldn’t like the terms: length and performance “incentive”.

    2) If he did accept the terms, they could dangle his future over his head on an annual basis. If he made it to the WS, then he keeps his job. Regardless of whether he’s the highest paid manager, he’s also the most successful manager in the most demanding position. I doubt any other manager has the task of getting to the WS in order to keep his job. I also doubt if any of the “executives” in Yankee land has that clause in their contract. I also doubt that the next manager will have that same clause.

    3) I’m not quite sure I believe that this is final.

    4) If it is final, the Yankees will have a very difficult time duplicating the success of the past 12 years.

  39. Wolf In Pinstripes October 18th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

    “Cashman referenced that certain players have said they wanted to be “Yankees for life.â€? I had a feeling he’d remember that.”

    Susan, I’m glad you mentioned that. One thing that came to mind for me a little bit ago was that we need to give Cashman a little credit as we go into a new era. Perhaps “having faith in him” is a better term than “credit”, actually. Cash has done some pretty admirable things in his tenure and I think he will do everything he can to keep the players that we think will leave. he’s a very good bargainer/negotiator, IMO. Sure, they could all walk anyway, but we can’t make the assumption that there’s no hope in keeping them.

  40. dwbh October 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    Listening to Michael Kay on 1050 is sickening. His pro-Yankees bias is showing big time. He’s saying things about what a good offer the Yankees made, how Joe Torre isn’t the only guy in the world who wouldn’t panic at 21-29, etc.

    Meanwhile, Mike Francesca on WFAN is speculating that Torre may very well have been telling the Yanks all along he wouldn’t take the 1-year deal, but they went ahead and did this whole song and dance to make it seem like Torre is the bad guy here. Very interesting if true (and we’ll find out if it’s true when Torre speaks).

  41. Will October 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    The bottom line is Joe wanted money/years more than the job. If a player made that decision, he would be made out to be a villain. If Joe wanted to manage in 2008, he could have…apparently $5mn wasn’t enough for him.

  42. Sparky O October 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    On a lighter note Josh Beckett’s ex-girlfriend is singing the national anthem in Cleveland…Classic..thats better than the bugs…

  43. Paul V October 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    Time for a change. Much I was sentimental this past week, all season I have been angry at his handling of pitchers. Last season, too, in fact. Actually, I have been a bit down on him since the 4 straight losses to Boston in ’04. Yes, I know that was the players on the field, but Torre was their manager and ultimately, he was to blame.

    Cashman, too, in my book, but he clearly threw Torre to the wolves to save his own butt.

    Anyway, I would prefer Girardi now, but even Mattingly will win a lot of games next year if we retain Kennedy, Joba and Hughes, along with Wang. I hope Pettite, Mo and Posada stay much more than I was hoping for Torre. Whether they leave because of this or not remains to be seen.

    I think it was a reasonable offer. In New York, if you get knocked out after one round, you are considered a failure, like it or not. That has happened three years in a row. I don’t get paid in my job if I don’t do my work well.

    He gets to keep his dignity; we get to have a new manager.

    The king is dead; long live the king.

    How many days till pitchers and catchers?

  44. YankeeJosh October 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    I usually don’t like Mike Francesa but he’s making a fair point when he said we only know the Yankees side of the story now. Until we hear from Torre, we won’t know if this was Joe being forced out or turning doen an offer he didn’t like.

  45. gargoyle October 18th, 2007 at 5:37 pm

    Peter – it’s pretty obvious they didn’t want him back. This wasn’t about money it was about years. A one year offer isn’t much of an offer at all. I’d say they’re pretty happy over at Legends Field right now.

  46. LBC October 18th, 2007 at 5:38 pm

    Joe turned down the structure of the deal, not the money or the length. The regime basically said that they thought money would motivate him to do better in the playoffs. If I was Joe Torre, I’d say that an extra million dollars does not motivate me to work harder during the playoff, I manage to win every day.

    The deal is an insult, again not because of the money or the length but because of the assumptions embedded in the incentive structure. Good for Joe.

  47. Dee October 18th, 2007 at 5:38 pm


    How do you know that Joe turned down the job b/c he “felt he was worth more”? Maybe I’m just misinterpreting your statement, do you really believe the paycut was the deal breaker?

    I really believe it’s the bad taste, the constant humiliation/vote of no confidence from the boss, and possible other things that went down behind closed doors today and in the past 12 days that we don’t know about.

    Or maybe one of the conditions of the offer is to have Guidry go as a sacrificial lamb, twice in two years. That could make Joe uneasy.

    I’m no insider so all just speculations here. But there’s no way it’s only about money. If it was, wouldn’t Joe just go back to negotiate more? That’s what everyone else in the world does when they negotiate their salary. We don’t just walk after the 1st offer!

  48. West Coast Fan October 18th, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    sad, sad, sad. no one has Joe’s track record. this could get bad. welcome home Buck Showalter?

  49. Will October 18th, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    A 1-year offer at $5mn ($6mn for simply making the playoffs) isn’t much? Thats more than most managers make in a 3-year deal. Give me a break. Torre has made himself rich managing the Yankees…portraying himself as a victim is a joke. Good riddance Joe…if money was your main motivation, I hope you enjoy spending it in Hawaii.

  50. mel October 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    That’s a good thing, right? That I don’t know who Buck Showalter is? I guess that means I’m young. :)

  51. SJ44 October 18th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    The Yankees are going to have a difficult time duplicating the last 12 years, regardless of who manages the team.

    Mainly because the entire industry has changed.

    There was no revenue sharing in 1995. There was also no luxury tax in 1995. Those are BIG changes to the industry and it has affected the Yankees.

    The entire industry is moving toward parity. No matter who manages the team, the chances of them duplicating the last 12 are slim to none.

    It doesn’t mean that the team can’t win another championship or be competitive.

    The new manager doesn’t have to have the same type of success Torre had to be a successful manager. If that’s the criteria, given the changes in how the game is run today, then nobody is qualified to manage the team.

  52. #9 October 18th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    Michael Kay is a puppet.

    How many games have we watched & heard him say, in terms of Joe, that:

    “Well this is what you have to expect when you work for George.”

    At the end of the day – Kay is just making sure he has job security.

  53. Global Warming October 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    Looking at this more closely this deal was obviously a set-up.

    If the Yankees really wanted Joe back as their # 1 option under manager they would of given him a 2 year deal.

    Facts are that they didn’t like the way things played out and they gave him a 1 year lame duck deal with options and incentives. Looks good on paper but everybody on the Yankees knew he would turn it down.]

    They basically dodged the PR backlash by giving him this deal offer, pretty smart actually but dirty indeed.

  54. We Miss Paulie October 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    To me, this is clearly an offer that they knew he’d refuse. C’mon, the Yankees can’t match his old salary? Give only one year so he’s (probably) in the same place this time next year? No thanks.

    I think its disrespectful as hell and Joe deserved better, whether they wanted him around or not. I cant say for sure what’s best for the Yankees, but I do know that this could have been handled better for someone with Joe’s stature.

    Every year the Yankees pull this crap. Andy….Bernie….now Joe. I’m a 3rd generation Yankees fan, but this crap is testing me.

  55. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    A very Machiavellian offer.

    Torre shoulda accepted just to freak the Boss out ;)

  56. Mike R. October 18th, 2007 at 5:48 pm

    “The Yankees were a mess 50 games into the season and he turned them around.”

    We should fire the guy who was managing during those first fifty games. He’s the guy that did the poor job. I love Torre, but it is strange that when the team underperforms the first month and a half of the season and then starts playing up to par and turns it around he gets all the accolades.

    I have mixed emotions on this. I will miss Torre, but at the same time I am excited to see what a new manager can bring to the table.

  57. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    I don’t know why this is “shocking”

    after the Boss’ statement, this was a strong, if not likely, outcome.

  58. G. Love October 18th, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    I’m just throwing out a name that would be shocking that is gonna come up in the managerial search since they told us we would be very surprised about some of the names.

    Paul O’Neil

  59. Pauly One October 18th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    Manager: Mattingly
    Bench Coach: Giradi
    Hitting Coach: Paul O’Neil
    Pitching Coach: Dave Eiland

  60. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 5:52 pm

    Now it’s on to Boras, as the ARod clock ticks.

  61. Will October 18th, 2007 at 5:54 pm

    Arod’s decision is 100x more important than Torre’s. Hopefully Cashman gets to work on that negotiation and isn’t distracted by the search for a new manager.

  62. CGramazio October 18th, 2007 at 5:54 pm

    Jeez, what happened to loyalty to the team and the fans. I know all the players loved Joe, but for God’s sake, the Yankees paid them, not Joe.

    All this talk of the players leaving because Torre’s not coming back now…you know what I say, if they want to leave, let them go. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. And I’ve been a fan since the 70′s, so I know what it’s like not to make the playoffs.

    I think there’s a lot of posturing going on with most of this, but if they’re serious about not coming back because of Joe, then I say to hell with them.

    Pettite already left once…because of money, not loyalty to Joe. They’re all using this as leverage to squeeze another dime. Did Don Mattingly leave through all the managerial changes? No, he played through it all and never questioned leaving the Yankees. He was payed well, respected, and adored by not just Yankee fans, but baseball fans all over. Maybe Mo, Posada, and Pettite should take a look at Donnie to see what a real ballplayer looks like. Man I’m perturbed now.

    Joe shouldn’t be the be all end all for the Yankees. I was a Yankee fan before Joe arrived and I’ll be a Yankee fan till I take my last breath. The players should be concerned about the likes of fans like these on this blog…people who pay hard earned money to watch grown men play a kid’s game. But it seems to me they’re more concerned who pays for their million dollar homes and fancy cars.

    I’ll get off my soapbox now thank you.

  63. YankeeJosh October 18th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    Mike R said:

    We should fire the guy who was managing during those first fifty games. He’s the guy that did the poor job. I love Torre, but it is strange that when the team underperforms the first month and a half of the season and then starts playing up to par and turns it around he gets all the accolades.

    Exactly. I don’t get how Torre gets credit every year for righting the ship but never blame for what goes wrong. I think Torre has some serious managerial flaws, most notably bullpen management.

    Still, I wasn’t calling for his head. I would have been okay with him coming back, but the Torre defenders seem to make him teflon. I’m not 100% sure he really is gone until there is a new manager in place. Things can change. I’m definitely concerned about who the replacement will be. Yes, there could be a better option than Torre out there but there are also a lot worse ones. I think Rivera and Posada will be back, but this also could push pettitte out the door which would be a huge loss. There’s a lot of uncertainty now for sure.

  64. Mike R. October 18th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    My coaching staff would be:

    Manager: Don Mattingly
    Bench Coach: Larry Bowa
    Hitting Coach: Kevin Long (The feedback from players that I have read has been very positive)
    Pitching Coach: Leo Mazonne
    Bullpen Coach: Dave Eiland
    1st Base: Paul O’Neal
    3rd Base: Tony Peña

  65. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    Dear Joe,

    Pride goeth before a fall.

  66. NYY4Life October 18th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    Im sorry to see Joe go.
    I wish the Yankees make one last offer to him.
    If not then IMO the best choice is Girardi.
    Manager- Girardi (3 year deal)
    Bench Coach- Donnie (takes over if Girardi fails)
    Pitching Coach- Eiland (knows the strengths and weaknesses of our young pitchers)
    Hitting Coach- Kevin Long (did a good job)
    1st Base- Pena (helps with defense and liked by young players)
    3rd Base- Bowa (best 3rd base coach, great influence on team)

  67. Mike R. October 18th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    I totally agree Josh. I would have enjoyed bringing Torre back for next year, but just as you said he seems to be the Teflon skipper. I think that this change could be great or it could be a total disaster, but the fact of the matter is that we are a long way away from knowing what the result will be.

  68. G. Love October 18th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

    I think Kevin Long stays as long as Arod stays. I think they are a bit of a package deal right now. Mattingly is a huge fan of Kevin Long. He hired Long to work with his son on hitting who is in the Dodger minor league system.

  69. Doreen October 18th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

    I am a Joe Torre fan. Let me start with that. But of course players like Posada and Mariano and Jeter are going to say he’s the guy they want because, basically, they haven’t played for anyone else. If it’s difficult for us fans to imagine a different manager, think of how difficult it is for the players themselves to contemplate the change. Even if the choice to replace Torre is Don Mattingly, there will be a change in the feel of the place. They’ll walk into the manager’s office, and it will look different. Change is difficult to embrace.

    I’m sorry it ended this way. Actually, if he was fired last year, I think it would have been better to my way of thinking. But this was, arguably, one of his better years with the Yankees, and yes, the players finally beginning to produce has absolutely everything to do with the surge in the last 2/3 of the season, but Torre steered that ship and he got veterans who supposedly have these huge egos to guy into the team concept — that they should play different roles, if that meant getting to the playoffs. Sure, there are probably a few managers out there who could inspire that kind of confidence and loyalty, but in this case it was Joe Torre, not some other guy.

    What I’ll miss most about Joe Torre is his calm demeanor and the absolute class he brought to the team. I really don’t think the Yankees as an organization can ever go back. It is now an established culture there. Any new manager will have to realize, just as all the new players did, that they Yankees are a particular type of organization. Sure, some things will change, but overall, I don’t think the Yankees all of a sudden go back to the days of the Bronx Zoo.

    Off topic — When does Curtis Granderson become available. I like him. He’s very engaging, speaks well, and is a pretty talented guy.

  70. G. Love October 18th, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    I don’t think Pena or Bowa will want to come back and be 1st and 3rd base coaches for Mattingly. It’s a bit of slap for them to work under a guy who has never managed a game. They might take bench coach, but I don’t think they would keep the same positions.

  71. Dee October 18th, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    Reaction from Francona in the pre-game conference just aired:
    “…however it actually went down, nobody knows, only Joe knows…I hope he’s happy”.

    I agree.

    But if something dirty really did go down, I doubt we’ll hear about it from Joe. He’s a classy guy, a real yankee and I’m sure he wants a booth job at YES.

  72. Paul October 18th, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    Thank you Joe Torre for making it fun to root for the Yankees the last twelve years.

  73. mel October 18th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    For those who can’t get enough of Kay, they’re streaming his show at

    Buck Showalter coming up.

  74. Bobcat October 18th, 2007 at 6:05 pm


    You seem to be saying that the standard for the new manager is different than it would be for Torre, in terms of defining success.

    Did I misinterpret your post?

  75. matt frags October 18th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    SURE… Torre dug this team out of holes, but then again didn’t he put the team in the hole? OR… when Yanks lose it’s the team’s fault, but when they win it’s to Torre’s credit?

    Either Torre contributed to putting the team in the hole or the player’s dug themselves out… Can’t have it both ways.

  76. Sparky O October 18th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    I dont think its a slap in the face…see 2007

    2007 Managerial Salaries

    2007 salaries for MLB managers, as reported by Bill Madden of the New York Daily News:

    Joe Torre, NYY $7.5 million
    Lou Piniella, CHC $3.5 million
    Bobby Cox, ATL $3 million
    Tony La Russa, STL $2.8 million
    Mike Scioscia, LAA $2 million
    Jim Leyland, DET $2 million
    Bruce Bochy, SF $1.75 million
    Terry Francona, BOS $1.65 million
    Phil Garner, HOU $1.5 million
    Willie Randolph, NYM $1.4 million
    Mike Hargrove, SEA $1.3 million
    Ron Gardenhire, MIN $1.25 million
    Ozzie Guillen, CHW $1.1 million
    Eric Wedge, CLE $1.025 million
    Jim Tracy, PIT $1 million
    Bob Melvin, ARI $875,000
    Buddy Bell, KC $825,000
    Ned Yost, MIL $825,000
    Clint Hurdle, COL $800,000
    Charlie Manuel, PHI $800,000
    Jerry Narron, CIN $600,000
    Grady Little, LAD $600,000
    Sam Perlozzo, BAL $600,000
    Ron Washington, TEX $600,000
    Joe Maddon, TAM $550,000
    John Gibbons, TOR $500,000
    Manny Acta, WAS $500,000
    Bob Geren, OAK $500,000

  77. Harley October 18th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    Quick one, Pete, becuz this bugs me. If Joe gets credit for getting the Yankees out of the ‘mess’ they were in, who takes the blame for getting them INTO the mess in the first place?

  78. Doreen October 18th, 2007 at 6:07 pm

    And by the way, there is a potential elimination game tonight and who’s ruling the airwaves? Our very own Yankees. And they will throughout this entire process, from the interview process through the selection and beyond.

  79. Peter Abraham October 18th, 2007 at 6:07 pm


    Enough with Paul O’Neil. He lives in Cincinnati with his family and wants so little to do with New York that he barely does any games in the Bronx for YES.

    He is certainly not going to manage or coach. Beyond the family issues, he doesn’t have the temper for it. A guy who used to kick the crap out of a water bucket when he struck out is not going to handle 162 games very well.

    O’Neil doesn’t even come to spring training. Not. happening.

  80. FenwaySitter October 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    Suzy Waldman

  81. We Miss Paulie October 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    I’m sad, but excited. This could be a fresh new start.

    But I still hate the way the Yankees handled it. It all seems so harsh and disrespectful. Why do the Yankee brass always turn personnel things into such a mess?

  82. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Maybe O’Neil could manage via closed circuit TV from Cincinnati

  83. Doreen October 18th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    SJ44 –

    I don’t know about that. Randy Levine said quite clearly that everyone in the Yankees organization has as their goal to win the World Series. Based on the offer to Joe, I’ll assume getting to the World Series is also okay.

    I don’t think that that goal changes for a new manager, regardless of the changes in the system over the past 12 years. To you and me and realistic and logical people, it would be foolish to expect a team to accomplish what Joe’s teams have accomplished for the last 12 years, and actually the 2 years before Joe. However, when a team’s organization consistently goes out and tries to get the best talent to put them in a position to win, it’s not unrealistic to want to win.

    We, the fans, may not hold the new manager to the same standard, but you can bet Mr. Steinbrenner will.

  84. Dee October 18th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Randy Levine:
    “We thought that we need to go to a performance-based model, having nothing to do with Joe Torre’s character, integrity or ability. We just think it’s important to motivate people.”

    “important to motivate people”…I think that’s some nerves for levine and yankees to say something like that about Joe Torre.

  85. Mike R. October 18th, 2007 at 6:12 pm


    Paul himself in an interview stated that if Girardi came on board and asked him to be a coach he would consider it.

  86. mel October 18th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    I hope the contract of the new manager will be a performance-based model since the braintrust (lol) said that was the direction they felt they had to go with. If not, then that would be a real slap in the face.

    I wonder if Joe will manage somewhere else for a Lee Iacoca type of salary ($1). That would be a real f-u.

    Seriously guys, no to Mattingly.

    1. Girardi
    2. Bowa
    3. Valentine
    4. Mattingly
    1001. LaRussa (TG Baker snagged a job!)

  87. kd October 18th, 2007 at 6:14 pm


    Any way to contact Mo or Jorge? They must be fuming. We’d love to know what they are thinking.

  88. J-Dawg October 18th, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    We’re all used to Torre being around, but this is a business. In business and in life, you have to accept change. Being able to adapt to different situations is a key of life. I don’t see it being like a revolving door where everybody leaves. These players are professionals who realize that this is a business. Things happen that they don’t necessarily like, but part of life is forgetting about the bad and moving on to do something productive. Mariano, Andy, and Jorge could all stick around and help lead the Yankees through this new beginning. They were close to Torre, I realize that, but it doesn’t mean that they have to completely ostracize themselves from the rest of the team or front office, either.

  89. PB in DC October 18th, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    Thanks for 12 great years Joe.

    In my mind, this is the OFFICIAL end of the ’90s – ’00 dynasty for the Yankees.

    Who is the next leader? I am just not buying Mattingly quite yet. There has to be someone out there that is more qualified.

    Pete, I agree: this makes the Yankees worse at a time when a lot of teams in the AL are getting better.

    Losing 2 of 3 of Andy, Posada and Rivera would REALLY hurt this team next season… Take A-rod out of this lineup and I’m not loving life at all… hope that doesn’t happen, but I have a not-so-good feeling about all of this.

  90. CGramazio October 18th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    On a side note, how long before the Joe Torre “Take This Job and Shove It” parody comes out?

  91. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 6:15 pm


    LOL, yeah what’s next, stock options ?

  92. PAT M..... October 18th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    The Yanks take a major PR hit..If this the new Management hang on…..I applaud Joe Torre for telling Steinbrenner to stick it…..Somewhere you know Yogi, Bucky Dent and all the rest of the managers that were treated like dog meat are giving him a standing O….Even Billy The Kid must be having a brew today…..Such a shallow way of dismissing your HOF Manager…..I do feel bad for Cashman, for this certainly isn’t his profile…….Hey Mo, we’ll give you 4 million base and 100 grand per save…..WHAT A DISGRACE….

  93. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 6:16 pm


    I don’t know about music, but it’s already the splash on Dailynews.

  94. Doreen October 18th, 2007 at 6:17 pm

    Let me amend what I just wrote. If the manager they choose has limited or zero managerial experience, then it is not realistic to expect the same results. If they choose a manager who is experienced, then, it will come down to the players at his disposal, as it really did with Joe. When Joe had the players (pitchers, specifically), he was able to go farther — the team was able to go farther.

  95. SJ44 October 18th, 2007 at 6:18 pm


    I’m saying the entire industry has changed. The chances of any manager going to the playoffs 12 straight years and winning 4 titles from now until 2020 is slim.

    Its very hard to duplicate those numbers.

    I don’t think the next manager of the Yankees has to duplicate those numbers to be successful.

    He has to be able to handle young pitching, the media, and a transitioning team, in that order.

    That doesn’t mean the team/new manager can’t be successful. Its just that, in today’s baseball, because of all the economic changes in the industry, its almost dynasty proof.

  96. RosterRooster October 18th, 2007 at 6:18 pm

    The more I think about it, the best man for the job is already in the clubhouse.

    Thats right… TONY PENA!!!

    He would be good with vets and young guys.

    Tony Pena

  97. Joe from Long Island October 18th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    What a swing of emotion! People above have made many good points. Rather than repeat them, I’ll just add one.

    I was really upset after Buck Showalter was let go, thinking he had done a terrific job (especially compared to Stump Merrill and Dallas Green). I swore that I wasn’t going to follow the team anymore. They couldn’t possibly win with “Clueless Joe”. Well, we know how that turned out.

    Whomever comes in now will have a tremendous challenge. But that would have been the case regardless of the circumstances in following Torre. I just hope it’s someone who can command the respect of the core – Jeter, Posada, Mo, Pettitte… and the rest of them. It’s a tough challenge.

    Personally, I’m rooting for Mattingly.

  98. CGramazio October 18th, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    Too funny Doc.

  99. Bryan October 18th, 2007 at 6:22 pm

    Wait, do you all remember the frustration of the playoffs? Of the last four playoffs? It was time to go. The message had been tuned out. Don Mattingly would be a huge mistake. Please seperate your feelings of loyalty/gratitude to Donny Baseball and realize it is not a good baseball decision. Joe Girardi is a logical and sound choice. A new message. But a Yankee guy. Can handle a young pitching staff for sure. And a touch of arrogance which is sure to help with the media.

  100. mark October 18th, 2007 at 6:22 pm

    SJ44 wrote: “The team has kind of stagnated the last couple of years”

    Last year I would have agreed with this remark. And I read here most evenings and SJ44 you are one of the best posters. But you’re off-base with this remark. Torre turned around the team this year — along with the young pitching — and this team was different than 04/05/06. The loss this year was a fluke; no manager could have expected his number one pitcher to crap the bed TWICE, when the number one hadn’t pitched back to back poor games all year. On top of that, you throw in the fact that a plague of bugs caused the most money in the bank rookie pitcher the bombers have had in many years (since rags?) to lose his cool and give up ONE run, which lost a game that was otherwise, for all intents and purposes, won when the ball was handed to Joba.

    No, there is no way you can let go Torre after this year.

    Do I think he was out of his mind to bring in that lousy pitcher in the 12th inning back in game 4 2003? Of course. It cost the series, and I still don’t know why he did it, although I swear he did it to prove a point to somebody in the Tampa ‘braintrust’ that they were idiots. (which we all know they are.)

    Do I think he was out of his mind to count on that Dodger re-tread in game seven in 04? Of course. and again, I have never shaken the feeling that he would start a clown like that in some microscopic way to prove a point that these are the pitchers he was given (like with Weaver the year before).

    Do I think the lineup was a joke last year against the Tigers? duh. Sheffield at first?

    Do I think we lost something immeasureable when Zim quit? yes.

    So maybe the plug should’ve been pulled last year or 3 or 4 years ago. But it wasn’t. And this year, of all years, was not the year to pull the plug. The one obvious recent mistake that can be pinned on him and exclusively him — his handling of A-Rod — he fixed this year.

    The guy should have been welcomed back with open arms.

    And for those of you who say that Torre wasn’t a good manager, he did nothing before he got to the Yanks… yup, you’re right, he did nothing before he got to the Yanks. I thought it was the craziest hire I’d ever heard, worse or at least on par with the Dallas Green hire (for some reason I thought Stump would do well). But with the Yanks, Torre was magic. And if you don’t recall or are too young to remember the 80s, then it’s your lucky day, b/c it’s back to the future for you.

  101. mel October 18th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

    Girardi the drill sargeant and Bowa the character have what it takes to take charge and pick the team up.

    Mattingly will be a daily reminder of who’s not there. Big distraction.

    Girardi used his “no-nonsense” style to whip the fish into a real baseball team. I don’t think that exact style will work with the Yankees a mix of Hall of Famers and wet behind the ears rookies (yes, I know that Joba and Hughes are not wet-behind-the ears lol) He’d definitely have to adapt his style and he wouldn’t be able to challenge this ownership like he did in Miami. But he’s a Yankee and as such I think he’d toe the line.

  102. OurKidsPlayDifferentSports October 18th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    good call rooster, tony pena would be a great fit.

    dont forget, he speaks spanish.

  103. Bobby October 18th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    Who cares?

    Managing wasn’t their problem…


    Get 2 frontline starters and 3 other solid guys then pay me $1 and I’ll get you to the playoffs.

  104. Stan October 18th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

    Who ever thought that Joe Torre was going to manage the Yankees forever ?
    Previous ownerships fired Casey Stengel, Yogi Berra, and Ralph Houk. The go arounds that a younger George Steinbrenner had with Billy Martin are legendary. Whether Torre’s contract offer was to set him up to fail is debatable. Perhaps his pride got in the way. Either way, his contract was far and away higher than any manager in the game.

  105. SJ44 October 18th, 2007 at 6:26 pm


    I am not saying the Yankees are going to change their “World Series or bust” philosophy, even though I am not in total agreement with that philosophy.

    I am saying, the chances the next manager has as good a run as Joe Torre is next to impossible. That doesn’t mean you keep Torre forever. Just pointing out its tough to duplicate that kind of success.

    It also doesn’t mean the next manager can’t be successful. It just means its awfully tough to follow such success.

    Its like saying the next closer will be as good (or better) than Mariano Rivera.

    This is a team in transition. Not just with Torre but, with the entire roster. You have a lot of guys who may be gone, more who are getting older and less effective, and they are breaking in younger players, especially pitchers.

    Sometimes, you have to take a step back in order to get ahead.

    The Yankees are trying to win AND rebuild at the same time. That’s an awfully hard to do.

    Its a difficult balance, especially in a city like NY.

    No matter what though, its certainly going to be an interesting off-season!

    I think its time for Pete to retract his belief the Yankees are “boring” right now! lol

  106. S.o.S.27 October 18th, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    Agree on Pena. I have been saying it all along. Pena made k.c. an over achieving team who lacked talent. He also made Posada better behind the plate. Last but not least he speaks spanish. It would help better repore with the likes of Cano and Cabrera.


  107. Bryan October 18th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

    Now for Posada to leave and Mo to follow. They are old. And btw overpriced. Do the math. Mo was geat in the postseason. When they got it to him. But down the stretch and really throughout the begining of the year, he looked average.

    Jorge had an awesome year. In a contract year. And yes, it matters. Big time. Those numbers WILL NOT be there next year. Bank on it.

  108. Dr. Acula October 18th, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    Who’s gonna break the news to Jeter? Trixy or Amber?

    “I Kid!”:

    I Kid!

  109. fleas October 18th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    mark your a riot! SJ44, I agree entirely!

    Can I say one thing that no person here has mentioned?

    ITS BEEN SEVEN YEARS SINCE WE WON THE WORK SERIES! You don’t make 7 million dollars a year for that no matter who you are!!!!! His offer was very generous… can I say one more thing..


    lol@all of you thinking torre is god…

    I was 50/50 if he stays or goes.. he made the ultimate decision and if it was his ego and pride that denied him coming back?? well how often has his ego and pride cost on the field as well???

    His deal was more than fair.. it was completely amazing for someone his age and he DOES need motivation, no different than anyone else. How many times did he look asleep in the dugout? Where was he arguing blown calls? For 7 million a year.. you’d think he would just be flashing his gold watch in the dugout.


  110. Darrin October 18th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    Sad that Joe’s not coming back, but as someone up thread mentioned, they better high-tail the signing of Arod.

    I don’t know about you guys, but the thought of ARod winning MVP’s for Boston, hitting all-time record-breaking homeruns for Boston, winning a ring for Boston is making me queasy.

  111. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop, and David Ortiz ate my hamburger (aka Joe) October 18th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    Nobody ever mentions Luis Sojo.

  112. fleas October 18th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    WOW, I CANT TYPE holding the shift key.. (sorry)


  113. Doreen October 18th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Way back in the middle of the season, when people were starting to discuss who should replace Joe Torre, I was very much against bringing in Joe Girardi. My main opposition to this was that I didn’t know if it would work with him managing players he had played with. Now, I’m not quite so sure it couldn’t work. I’d be open-minded about Girardi as a candidate for the managerial position. I’d like to see Mattingly go to AAA to manage for a season, and eventually he may get to manage the Yankees, but that way he would definitely be a candidate anywhere to manage.

  114. Bryan October 18th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Joe Torre was a great manager…. when they won. His players/pitchers couldn’t hit/pitch when they lost. Cant have it both ways pal.

    And who the hell is he to turn down what was sure to be at least 6 million dollars? After that flameout. Get over yourself. And stop crying at work.

  115. Wolf In Pinstripes October 18th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Dee said:

    “Randy Levine:
    “We thought that we need to go to a performance-based model, having nothing to do with Joe Torre’s character, integrity or ability. We just think it’s important to motivate people.�

    “important to motivate peopleâ€?…I think that’s some nerves for levine and yankees to say something like that about Joe Torre.”

    I agree, Dee. What I found particularly appaling was Levine’s suggestion that performance-based incentives is something that we all deal with every day. Really? So Randy, has your job ever been on the line during these years that the Yankees have failed to win the World Series? hmm?? Sorry, I can’t hear you…

    Perhaps the Manager and GM have their jobs affected by the failure to win a WS each year, but for Levine to suggest that they are ALL responsible when his job isn’t going to be affected is disgusting.

  116. Anthony October 18th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

    Being a bit dramatic aren’t we? A new era has to begin someday, Torre was not going to manage forever.

  117. CaptainsCorner October 18th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

    The Yanks obviously did not want him back. They have all the money in the world and if they wanted him back they would of offered him what he made last year $14m for 2 years. They knew he would not accept the pay cut so now they think they look better that Torre did not accept the offer instead of Yanks didnt make him an offer. There is no reason for Torre to be making $4m more then any other manager anyway.

    It was time for Torre to go anyway. Torre hates the young kids and that is the direction that the organization was going and he is not the right person to manage young players, veterans…no. Hopefully the next manager knows how to manage a bullpen better then he did.

  118. Darrin October 18th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    Anyone have thoughts about the #6? I have a feeling there will be a number retirement ceremony not too many years down the line.

  119. PAT M..... October 18th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    So much for a smooth transition…What did Mattingly say a few weeks ago, it’ll be like replacing John Wooden….Yes Donnie Baseball, you may just be right……So I wonder which of our astute baseball minds that expell their wisdom upon us on this site have to offer now as a solution now that October is no longer a favorable bet…..SJ44, RUBBISH that the game is dynasty proof…..What defines a dynasty in todays sports….Making the Postseason every year would be a major factor I would think……

  120. fleas October 18th, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    You are the same people arguing that AROD doesn’t deserve a pay raise — thought he breaks or will break many records — but even though Torre is the highest paid manager .. almost doubled! You are arguing that 5 million +3 million options is not enough??????

    Unreal.. I sense a little hypocrisy with you folks!

    Anthony.. well put!

  121. Doreen October 18th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

    SJ44 –

    Okay. I understand what you’re getting at. Basically, even Joe Torre would not be able (in fact has not been able) to exactly duplicate his early successes.

    Yeah, it’s sure gonna be an interesting winter. And no, they’re far from boring. 10 days of boring out of 365. Everyone has to take a rest, no?

  122. LathamJoe October 18th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

    Walter Alston managed the LA Dodgers for 22 years – all on
    1-year contracts. I guess the 1 year $5 Mil + $3 Million incentives and 1-year vested option at $8 Million is an “insult”?

    Bye Bye!

  123. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop, and David Ortiz ate my hamburger (aka Joe) October 18th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    Being IN the World Series 5 out of his first 6 years was the abberation!!!

    If Joe Torre had the most talented team year after year and kept losing in the first round, then it would be his fault, but that wasn’t the case. We just haven’t had the pitching these last few years. That is not Torre’s fault, more than anyone else, it’s Steinbrenner’s fault!

  124. Jeremy October 18th, 2007 at 6:42 pm


  125. Dee October 18th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

    Wolf, I know, they’re all speaking out of both sides of their mouths and trying to save their own jobs.

    Bryan, be fair, it doesn’t take a brainiac to figure out it’s not about the money. If it was, Joe could simply go back with a counter offer, that’s what everyone does when negotiating a salary. You don’t just get up and say see ya.

  126. Drive 4-5 October 18th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    It will be interesting to see if the Yanks’ new manager has an incentive based contract. Since it was made clear in the teleconference that “everyone in the room was on board with this decision”, then everyone in that room to be under an incentive based contract as well. Especially that creep Randy Levine.

  127. F.D. New Rochelle October 18th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    George Steinbrenner said himself in 2000 at the World Series Championship trophy presentation in a champagne drenched atmosphere that winning a World Series has gotten extremely difficult with the inception of a 3 tiered playoff system that started in ’95. He was right.
    That championship was a three-peat and no team has repeated ever since. Even though he was disappointed with the World Series losses of ’01-’02- and ’03, the team hasn’t got to the World Series since then.

  128. We Miss Paulie October 18th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    And to think we could get whacked again next week by Arod.

  129. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop, and David Ortiz ate my hamburger (aka Joe) October 18th, 2007 at 6:44 pm

    “Walter Alston managed the LA Dodgers for 22 years – all on
    1-year contracts. I guess the 1 year $5 Mil + $3 Million incentives and 1-year vested option at $8 Million is an “insult�?

    In those 22 years, how many pay cuts did Walter Alston get?

  130. Andrea October 18th, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    Thank you, Pete. I’ve been trying to say that about Paul O’Neill forever.

  131. Mr. Reality October 18th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    The age old theory rides again. Every manager is hired to be fired or forced out.

  132. Lee October 18th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    On September 24, 1934 Ruth played his final game as a Yankee, although it was not billed as such. He did know it would be his last. The Yankees obeyed baseball law by sending him a registered letter containing their 1935 offer prior to January 1 of that year.

    The contract called for one dollar.

    On February 5, 1935, after spending 15 years in pinstripes and leading the Yankees to seven pennants and four World Series championships, Ruth was released at age 39.

    Seems like old times!

  133. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop, and David Ortiz ate my hamburger (aka Joe) October 18th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    Hey, they forced Casey out and they won the WS the next year!

  134. the simple approach October 18th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

    Buy out Giambi’s contract and in the process give Joe Girardi his old No. 25 back. Girardi won’t get Torre money so that takes some of the sting out of Giambi’s buyout.

  135. Wolf In Pinstripes October 18th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    I’m one person that is not happy to see Joe go. Yes, I know he was not going to manage forever and I’m not disputing that some changes could benefit the Yankees.

    Here’s one way to be able to think positively about the future that involves Joe Torre, for those of us that weren’t entirely ready to see him go:

    I saw somebody mention a few days ago that when Torre was hired, the general reaction among Yankee fans was anything but favorable. When I read that post I realized that I was among those people that were thinking “What, are you _kidding_ me???” when the hiring was made. I had watched Joe manage other teams and end up with a mediocre record. But something very cool happened – and that was that Torre managed to be a perfect fit for the job somehow and a manger that I didn’t think was a good choice ended up leading us through our first true dynasty in 50 years. Since then Joe Torre has become one of my favorite people that I admire. There’s nothing to say that the next manager that comes in can’t surprise us by dismantling our expectations of him.

    The words of caution of course are that the Torre years have shown us that it’s not just about a amanager, or one player, or a decent GM. There needs to be a chemistry or dynamic in which all of the pieces fit. This is the task ahead for the Yankees as an organiztion. They need to find a manager that can be the glue of the team like Torre was and still be a good field general for the club. They need to let the GM (whether it is Brian Cashman or someone else eventually) do their job without interference from Steinbrenner’s minions. The players need to hunger again. And our needs as a club need to be viewed realistically and addressed with vigor.

  136. Annie Savoy October 18th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    Without Joe Torre as the manager, I expect that Andy Pettitte will really retire, Jorge and Mo will take an offer from another club, ARod will go elsewhere and only Jeter will be left as a Yankee – perhaps not for long. By removing Joe Torre, George Steinbrenner have changed the whole persona of the Yankees – they won’t be making the post season for years.

    As Pete said Paul O’Neil doesn’t even want to leave home for an overnight, much less a season – forget him. As for a new manager, now that the new Steinbrenner crew has shown their colors so to speak, most reputable baseball men will turn away from that kind of ownership.

    In fact, George and Sons have just devalued their business.

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  138. rover October 19th, 2007 at 11:06 am

    thankyou randy levine, for allowing us the fans, to know and understand that each and every person involved in the tampa meetings steadfastly agreed to the contract offer to joe torre. nobody hesitated and everyone stands by their work.
    now that you come off as something less than good baseball management. we the fans can take heart in the fact that as ignorant as you appear, you were smart enough to know joe torre. you the brain trust insinuate that mr. torre didn’t manage to win. that is absurd. i, we the fans could understand a no raise offer. yes, we could. but to tie his future to incentives, arrogant. try retaining mo,po,arod, in such a manner. the worst part is to believe you could save face doing this, put it on joe. apparently joe just taught all of you something about human nature. im appalled by such behavior. most ot the fans are not idiots, you fooled nobody, but yourselves. if the attempt was to make joe look bad you failed miserably. if you negotiate this way in an ongoing manner, i welcome you to the tampabay yankees. i love the yankees, but i’m told there are openings on the sux fan list. it is a consideration. gentlemen, your methods are dispicable at the best. all you ever needed to do or say is we have informed joe of a change in course. end of story. but then that takes morals, honesty, integrity and the ability to look farther down the road. if arod didn’t intend to opt out, you have given him a taste of the future, not a good one. you should have thought about these things, i’m sure you did, but not long or hard enough. it is my guess you are the laughing stock of mlb. you are with me.

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