The Torre Watch: Day 10
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 18, 2007 
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The Yankees met again in Tampa yesterday. No decisions were reached.
The consensus among my peers in the sportswriting biz is that no decision will come down today, either. It seems pretty obvious that there are talks going on behind the scenes with Joe Torre and it may take a few days.
At this point, it would be a surprise if Torre wasn’t the manager next season. The Yankees are not talking with Don Mattingly or Joe Girardi. There are no other serious candidates.
One thing seems fairly certain: Ron Guidry is done as pitching coach. The Gator’s old-school approach is not what the Yankees are looking for. Dave Eiland’s work with their young pitchers has probably earned him a job in the majors.
Meanwhile, the A-Rod situation is certainly interesting now that the Yankees have made their stand. One of my friends is convinced the Red Sox are enamored with him and would make a huge offer.
I’m not so sure. You would think the failures of J.D. Drew and Daisuke Matsuzaka have convinced the management there about the danger of long-term, high-money deals.
Red Sox fans dislike Jeter. They hate Rodriguez. Trust me, I’ve stood on the field during batting practice there and heard people scream things at A-Rod that would make the toughest guy in a biker bar blush. John Henry and Larry Lucchino know that.
That’s because they don’t respect Arod. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. Just saying the Sox fans I know have zero respect for the man.
Is Gil Patterson still with the organization? I thought he was more of the new-school type of pitching coach that might fit in well…
Yet, the Red Sox love Manny Ramirez, who looks like a dirt bag, plays the game at 50%, and showboats. Who cares if they “respect” A-Rod or not? They obviously know nothing. A-Rod looks appropriate, plays hard, and showboats a lot less than Manny.
Hey, EdWhitson. The 1950′s called, they want you back. Do you have a crew cut?
The hate they have for him would go away as soon as they sign him and he starts hitting balls over the monster; just like it did for most yankee fans this year. But if he goes there and struggles, it will be just as brutal as it was in NY during 2006. Anyway, I agree with Pete, I dont think the Red Sox would dish out the money needed to sign him. I also have a funny feeling that he’s not going to opt out of his current deal anyway.
Pete-
The Redsox “Nation”, more than any other fans root for the uniform or laundry. Even though most claim to admire school and gritty players, they will defend a jaking showboaters like Manny Ramirez, headhunters like Pedro and showboaters John Papelbon to the death. All the while arguing that ARod trying to slap the ball out of Arroyo’s hand in the heat of desparation is the worst show of sportsmanship in the history of the game.
If Arod were to strap on the Red Hose he would become a god to them, unless he is a flop like JD Drew which is an impossibility.
Eiland has certainly had success in the minors — or been there when success happened. Leaving aside the ones who’ve done well throughout (Hughes, Joba, Kennedy), both Karstens and Clippard had big turnarounds at Trenton in ’06 when he was there.
I feel bad for Guidry as a long time Yankee fan, and I have no way of knowing if he was or was not up to the job. He’s a class act without question. It’s interesting that the powers that be might be jettisoning a coach who was such a big Yankee star. On the other hand, I worried that the fact that he was a star (as with Mattingly) might make it awkward to replace him. Still I hope there is a place for Guidry somewhere in the Yankee organization. As a player he gave his all — including taking stints as closer when Gossage went down — for the team.
There fans would certainly change their minds once he put on red and hit a homer over the monster.
Manny plays at 50%?
Pretty good career(500 HR’s, WS MVP, etc) if he’s only playing 50%
By the way, who cares how players look like. This isn’t a pageent, all I care about is how they hit and pitch.
Living in Boston I can tell you this, Red Sox fans are mostly fairweather fans and the majority of “Red Sox Nation” is all fans who jumped on in 04. If they Sox got ARod once he hit his first homerun he would be a god. If he came over and struggled, it would be like NY in 2006.
If ARod opts out and goes to Boston I would lose all respect for the guy. It would prove for sure he is all about the money.
As far as a pitching coach I hope the Yankees push hard for a certain someone named Leo Mazzone! The guy is a pitching coach god. Yes he couldn’t do anything with the Orioles but look what they gave him to work with! Kennedy-Hughes-Joba the next Glavine-Maddux-Smoltz…One can only hope!
so the Yankees are probably negotiating a new contract with Torre.
but everyone on this blog told me he was being treated disgracefully and “twisting in the wind”. how can that be?
are you saying that more things happen behind the scenes than we as fans know about? i am shocked.
A-Rod to Boston?
A-Rod has just completed an epic, three-year emotional sojourn in NY. IMO that emotional investment is worth a lot of money to him. Moving now – - to Boston of all places – - means foregoing the hard won love of the NY fans and starting over because unlike Blue Cross benefits, the NY A-Rod Love is not portable.
In Boston he has to know that he would face fan hatred, not just a tepid curiosity, and if his past performance is any clue, his performance would be affected by such negativity. A bad first year from him would only intensify the level of hatred for him in a town already reeling from two recent, dubious long term contracts. And regardless of where he plays, next year will probably not be quite as numerically amazing as this year. Such a natural regression would only look like treason to the Boston fans.
A-Rod will need more than the ability to laugh at himself in Boston. In fact, if he does go to Boston he will have to add one more demand to his contract: a full time EMT to address all the knife wounds in his back.
I don’t think the hate that Boston fans have for him would factor into the equation in Boston. That is a team run by stathead geeks and Arod is a stathead geeks wet dream. It’s why Drew and Lugo are on that team right now. They put the numbers into their “metrics” and determine that the player A will produce x, y, z — what they don’t realize is that the intangibles that make players great and unite teams can’t be charted no matter how hard you try.
I think Theo has already let Boras know that if Arod opts out, he will get big money from Boston.
The real question is whether Arod would play in Boston. He had a love affair with the town when he was almost traded there talking about Harvard, the history, the restaurants, etc. Do the past 4 years take away that? I’m not sure.
Boston needs replacements for Manny and Ortiz. Ortiz especially who is a “bad body” aging slugger. They saw what happened with Mo Vaughn as he aged and the drop off was quick. They have the money and the need for Arod and nothing would make them happier than to get him to opt out.
I hope he doesn’t do it because I like Alex and I think Boston would be the decision he ends up regretting the most.
I see him opting out being one of those mistakes where Boston hinted at parameters of a deal to get him to opt out and then when the Yankees show they are not going to bid on him as a free agent, Boston’s deal suddenly isn’t as lucrative as it was rumored to be. If you’re a competing GM, you want to make Boras think there’s $500 million for Arod if he opts out just to get him to do it and get the Yankees to turn their backs on him. Once he opts out, all that rumored money may disappear.
This is why I think Boras and Alex know that if the Yankees give him the extension that keeps him the highest paid player by a large margin, you stay here and don’t roll the dice. Unless Alex and his wife suddenly hate NYC, which I don’t think they do.
Something you don’t hear much about, but Buster Olney covered it in his blog today. The incredible risk you would take in signing A-Rod toa huge 10 year contract. One injury could cripple a team for a decade.
————————————————————
An executive with a team which will not be involved with the A-Rod bidding offered this insurance primer, if A-Rod were to sign a 10-year, $300 million contract:
• You could only get insurance on the first three years of the deal, and would need to work with at least two companies. After the first three years of the deal, you would need to reapply for another three years.
• The maximum amount that you could probably get insured would be 50 percent of A-Rod’s salary. In other words, if A-Rod made a total of $90 million in the first three years of his deal, you could get insurance for about $45 million.
• So, at the outset of the contract, approximately $250 million of his $300 million deal would remain uninsured.
For the Yankees, as a wealthy franchise, this is not as big of a concern as it would be for a mid-market or an upper-middle class franchise. But any team would be at incredible risk, in the event of an injury, a physical setback, an accident. Imagine if the Angels decided to expand their payroll from about $95 million to about $125 million — and then A-Rod suffered a devastating injury running into a tarp. The Angels, then, would have about $250 million of dead money on their payroll.
That would give any owner pause. And on top of that, the policy would cost about $6 million.
This from another executive: “In any case, the premiums for a deal of that magnitude would be exorbitant and a very real factor in the overall cost of the contract to the club.”
I would also be sad to see Ron Guidry let go. I’ll never forget 1978. It seems hard to put the blame on him given the pitching talent management has provided (Injured Pavano, Aging Mussina, Ancient Clemens, Inadequate Igeiwa, and a bunch of rookies) plus Wang.
I know that A-Rod is obviously a better all-around player than Mike Lowell, but I just think that the Red Sox fans could convince management to resign Lowell. Lowell really did have a good season and was the best hitter in their lineup all year. They may end up bringing Lowell back, even though they will obviously take a look at what’s going on with A-Rod. I just don’t see A-Rod going to Boston, for all of the reasons mentioned by Pete and the earlier posts in this thread. I think that A-Rod stays because he has a lot of unfinished business with the Yankees.
If A-Rod goes to the sox, all hell will break loose. If the sox offer him a huge contract I think Cashman may go back on his word. Now, if A-rod opts out and goes to the Cubs or some other team, the Yankees brass will ne able to swallow it and move on, but if he gets an offer from the sox, it may be a different story.
i heard that joe torre may be offered a position in the front office . RUMOR ONLY .
Who plays third base if a-rod opts out ? and , how do the yanks get some right handed power if a-rod opts out ?
Manny being Manny had a nice quip yesterday, saying something along the lines of “if we lose, it’s not the end of the world,” which is actually true. ESPN ran with it and he caught a ton of flak for speaking the truth. I thought it was funny. But that’s just me.
Anyway, A-Rod can leave. We’ll take the compensatory picks and move on. I like Dave Eiland as the bullpen coach and Mazzone as the pitching coach.
Murphydog,
If Boston offers him the most money and years, A-Rod will be a Red Sox next year.
I bet A-Rod and Bor-a$$ wouldn’t hesitate. A-Rod is only human now.
I can’t see A-Rod in Boston. But that’s just me. He’s too clean looking.
Trade for Edwin Encarnacion.
Can you even imagine what it would be like when A-Rod came to the Stadium as a Red Sox?
The booing and heckling would be so bad he’d probably be sitting in the dugout crying. lol
Boston is an extremely fickle town. A-Rod has seen 4 years of the so-called rivalry and is clearly an NYC kind of guy.
Fans up there are very star struck and many players in the past have complained about no privacy in restaurants and other public places with extreme autograph / picture hounds. Boomer Wells for one, despised Boston. People in New York see celebs all the time and pretty much leave them alone.
A-Rod would get tired of doing Dunkin Donut commercials and posing with people in pilgrim outfits.
Beantown, would be so happy a player from Yankees “finally” “chose them “over the yankees that they would welcome Arod.
When he doesn’t hit in postseason they’ll dice him in little pieces,with beantown nastiness.Arod isn’t going to step into that mess.He’s slready been down that road!!!
If Arod thought adjusting to NY was tough, Boston is MUCH tougher. Its not even close.
One bad post-season, or one bad weekend series against the Yankees, and Arod would be persona non grata (more than he is now) in Boston.
Given everything that has transpired the past 4 years, it would be very tough for Arod to go to Boston.
Could it happen? I suppose anything could happen. However, if you are Arod, why put yourself through that nonsense when its unnecessary?
Its not like the Yankees are going to lowball him or insult him with an offer.
For someone as routine driven as Arod, I see Boston as the last place he would go.
Even the Sox are not guaranteed playoffs every year. I don’t mean to sound like a spoiled Yankee fan but fact is fact, record shows Arod has a much better chance of getting into the PO with NY than with any other teams. If I was Arod, I wouldn’t have such short-term memory and forget about his 3-year absence from the PO prior to becoming a yankee. At what he will be making (at least $28mil/yr realistically I think), his name will be mud (or muddier than it already is in some circles) if he doesn’t carry his team to the playoff.
Unless a team really drinks the Boras Koolaid and comes along with $35 mill a year, which I think is highly unlikely, I can’t see any team offering more than 2 or 3 mil of what NY will offer. After tax and paying off Boras etc, how much net does Arod really pocket? And to trade that $800k or a mill a year for the legacy of going into the HOF in pinstripes alongside the likes of Joe DiMaggio? If Arod really ends up doing that, I wouldn’t criticize him for being a douche, I would just say low IQ.
I will say this, if A-Rod was to go to Boston, he could become a trendsetter. Several Red Sox players have gone to the Yankees the last few years, but you have to go back a long way to find any Yankees that have left and gone directly to the Red Sox. I know that former catcher Mike Stanley did. Carlos Pena in ’06 really doesn’t count, because he was only in the Yankees farm system. I really can’t think of many more within the last 10 to 15 years. A-Rod going to Boston could shift that balance, which I really hope does NOT happen!
Question…What exactly is meant by Guidry having an “old school” approach? In all honestly, I’ve never really know what Guidry’s “style” as a pitching coach is…
More to the point, how is Eiland’s style different than Guidry’s? Does anyone know?
Hey Pete,
Did you cover the Yankees pre-alex? I’m just wondering if a-rod kind of eclipsed jeter as most-hated-yankee, since his arrival. maybe they were yelling similar things to Jeter back then…
Arod,
Will not go into the Hall of Fame wearing a Beantown Cap,no way!!! He has standards,and common sense!
Hey Peter,
Say ARod opts out of the contract and the Yankees and Cashman stay firm with their decision to let ARod walk away, what are the Yankees best options to replace ARod’s bat and glove at 3B, and other ramifications to the lineup?
The first option would be to acquire Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins. However, with the Yankees, and rightfully so, sticking with keeping its young players on the mound and in the field, is this a viable option? Miguel Cabrera is filthy and it will the cost the Yanks, and any other team, a ton in return (in prospects). The Yankees are not moving Joba or Hughes, we know that is clear. So, would the Yankees trade some other their other young talent, such as Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Austin Jackson, Jose Tabata, and Alan Horne, in a package? The price tag may be too high for Miguel Cabrera. So, do we sign Lowell or Beltre (his defense is sick, the bat, that’s another thing, he needs his greenies to hit those HRs again), or make a move for another young player to play the hot corner?
I don’t see the Yankees going back on their stance with Arod, regardless of whether or not the Red Sox are in the derby.
As a GM, Cashman loses all credibility if they back off now. He would never be able to give his word to an agent again and have it be worth anything. You can’t handcuff a GM like that and expect him to do his job.
Its pretty clear this is a decision (to let him go if he opts out) that is an organizational decision, not just Brian Cashman’s. A stance I agree with because its the only thing the Yankees can do in this situation.
If Arod wants to leave, giving him more money, or begging him to stay, is not the way to go. Its not like he isn’t making big money now.
At some point, you do have to draw the line and stick with it. If he opts out, he’s gone.
That said, EVERY player can be replaced. Yes, the next third baseman for the Yankees won’t hit 54 home runs.
However, last I checked, its about the TEAM winning. They won without Arod in the past. They can win without him in the future, if it comes to that.
Its all in how they re-tool the team.
Chicago Dave–Dave Eiland knows the trio like the back of his hand. He is better equipped to handle them than Gator. Dave fixed Hughes’ post injury mechanics. Not Gator.
As for the Torre situation…The funny thing is that he still (apparently) wants to stay after the shoddy way he has been treated by management these past few years. If I were Joe, I would have said “up yours” right after the final loss to Cleveland…
“Something you don’t hear much about, but Buster Olney covered it in his blog today. The incredible risk you would take in signing A-Rod toa huge 10 year contract. One injury could cripple a team for a decade”
uh, the Yankees paid Pavano, Giambi, and Farnsworth about $36M for nothing this past season. they paid money to AZ to complete the Randy Johnson trade and were still paying money to AZ from the FIRST Randy Johnson trade. all in all, over $40M in dead money.
while less than ideal, the team was “crippled” all the way into the playoffs.
E-ROC – OK, so does that mean Guidry was a “hands-off” type of pitching coach – i.e. he never really bothered to try to tinker with guys’ deliveries, etc., etc.?
Yeah Miguel is a monster, but we won’t give them what they want.
I think ARod will not opt out. Anywhere he goes, especially Boston, he would have to start from scratch again in winning the fans over. It took him 3+ years to do that in NY. Why would anyone want to go through that again?
I don’t think the Red Sox have any intention of signing A Rod. However it is in Boston’s interest for A Rod to be off the Yankees. Cashman has assured the world that if A Rod opts out then he will no longer be a Yankee. Therefore game theory will tell you that the Red Sox should do everything in their power behind the scenes (ala JD Drew) and let Boras know that the Red Sox will be a strong player for A Rod. Then when he opts out, they can go back and sign Lowell and say sorry we have a 3B.
A Rod off the Yankees, Red Sox keep the guy they want at 3B. Mission Accomplished.
“For the Yankees, as a wealthy franchise, this is not as big of a concern as it would be for a mid-market or an upper-middle class franchise.”
and i just read this part where you said this. i see now that you were talking more about a middle market teams.
it’s a good point, but i also think this 10 year $300M contract is a figment of the media’s imagination. he’s going to get paid, but he won’t get 10 years at age 32.
The problem with Cabrera is his weight and his attitude…You need a manager who is going to be on top of him all the time to keep him in line. I’m not sure Joe is that type of guy…
The Yankees shouldn’t trade for Miguel Cabrera. That would cost the house and there is no need for it. Trade Edwin Encarnacion. He’s a young talent that can really play.
Chicago Dave: Joe might not be that type of guy…but Bowa is, if kept on staff.
The Red Sox call Arod and the Yankees “Bush League”. However, there is NOTHING more bush league than Varitek wearing a big C on his chest like he plays for the Bruins. That is so lame
I just hope A-Rod stays, but if not we move forward and continue to win.
the Yankees should sign Lowell anyway. move A-Rod to SS and Jeter to 1B.
now that would be a team that could score some runs.
i offered a suggestion in the other post.
some think Robby Cano has too big of a frame to remain at 2B long term… so why not entertain a move to 3B, and slide him up in the batting order to be a run producer?
it’s an in-house move that wont cost anything, and then you can either promote a 2B from within, or obtain one at a much cheaper price than what a slugging 3B would cost.
Beantown couldn’t get him the first time(Yankees did Ha ha),If given a do over who knows how much it “could” cost their pockets. How would Jason and Arod get along ,in the same uniform(any love lost?) Hmmm!!
Chicago Dave–I don’t know what it means. It doesn’t matter what I think. The Yankees thinks Dave Eiland can continue the development of the trio while being the pitching. Personally, I like Leo Mazzone as a pitching coach and Dave Eiland as the bullpen coach.
The weight issue with Cabrera, from what I’ve read, had to do with his Father being REALLY sick during this past offseason. IMO, he’s destined for 1st base.
agreed, EROC. Cabrera has 1B/DH written all over him. He’s a tremendous offensive talent, but I dont think I would touch him.
“The Yankees shouldn’t trade for Miguel Cabrera. That would cost the house and there is no need for it. Trade Edwin Encarnacion. He’s a young talent that can really play.”
then why would the Reds trade him?
haven’t people realized that teams just don’t trade players like this unless they are getting a TON in return?
who would play 3B for the reds then? who are the Yankees giving up in return?
I think Yankee fans will have more respect for Alex if he goes against his agents advice and doesn’t opt out.
Also I heard that if Alex chooses not to opt out, that it is a one shot deal, which does’t make sense since it is in his contract for every year following this one. Can anyone clarify that for me.
If Alex doesn’t opt out can he opt out next year?
If A-Rod let NY cause him to tighten up on the bat, Boston would give him psychosomatic paralysis. I could do not disagree more with those who say A-Rod will be loved after his first home run in a Boston uniform. He won the MVP in 2005 in NY but still had to live through the ugliness of 2006. Don’t tell me Boston is any different.
Boras is only a tool to get A-Rod what he wants, he’s not Svengali. Boras has already taken him to the top of the money making food chain. A-Rod needs to do a little trading off, forgoing a purely monetary package for money plus peace of mind and a good work environment. A-Rod has made himself comfortable enough in NY to settle down and focus on performing, catching up to and perhaps passing Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Mickey Mantle in pure numbers and Yankee lore. Moving again now will only delay his quest until he readjusts. Can his legacy really afford to wait another three years until he is comfortable in Boston? Anaheim or Chicago may not be as rough on him, but they are not NY.
“More to the point, how is Eiland’s style different than Guidry’s? Does anyone know?”
that’s what i’ve been asking. who is dave eiland? what’s he all about.
and more so, if the yankees pick him and don’t know what he’s all about, what the hell is that?
i think guidry is an old school coach who knows how to pitch from being a star pitcher. my hunch is that eiland is an old school coach who knows how to pitch from being a bad pitcher.
i don’t think either of them is fluent with the latest performance and conditioning technologies. so eiland may not be a new school coach at all. just being younger doesn’t mean you’re with it on what’s new.
to me he looks like a good bullpen coach.
Of all the possible reasons ARod could give for leaving NY, there’s none that would be any different if he went to Boston other than “more money”.
Intense media scrutiny, psycho fans, intense rivalry, geographical location…….all the same. It would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
Pete said it best when he stated that even ARod doesn’t have enough phony pills to go to Boston.
jennifer, i think an extension nullify any opt-out clauses for 2008 and 2009.
if he doesn’t opt out and doesn’t sign an extension (not happening), he has additional opt-out clauses for ’08 and ’09…
Jennifer,
Your right it’s been a mutual love fest this year with his new attitude and run production, when it counted.
hmmm–The Reds aren’t high on him and he’s been available all season for the right price. They think Edwin is to flashy and not consistent with his play. He looks good to me and I’d take a chance on him. Plus he’s young and cheap.
Yeah poor Joe Torre…All the Yankees did for him is pay him twice what the next highest paid Manager makes a year, Ensure his enshrinement in Coopers Town, Make him a God in NYC with several endorsement opportunities and get him what he never had prior to signing with the Bombers…A World Series Ring! How Could the Yankees be so cruel? SHUT UP….
Jennifer,
from Cot’s baseball contracts
“Rodriguez may void after 2008 or 2009 unless club increases 2009-10 salary by $5M/year or $1M more than highest-paid MLB position player”
As Manny Ramirez would say, hey if A-rod opts out and goes somewhere else, it’s not the end of the world.
“the Yankees should sign Lowell anyway. move A-Rod to SS and Jeter to 1B.”
now that’s creative. it’d be some infield. i’ve advocated moving jeter to center field in the past and putting arod at short, but that was before melky came along. arod would have to be moved again in a few years because he’s no spring chicken anymore. if jeter’s on first, where does arod go? back to third , i’d guess.
i’d like to see the yankees make a decision on torre so they can get going on keeping arod a yankee. keeping arod to me is more important than who is the manager.
A-Rod’s clauses in his current contract are totally insane and mind numbing.
“I think Yankee fans will have more respect for Alex if he goes against his agents advice and doesn’t opt out. ”
does anyone else think that A-Rod and Boras have absolutely no intention of opting out and this whole thing is a giant PR campaign?
Boras is toting Alex as worth $35M/year so when Alex signs for $26-28M/year, he looks like a hero.
i mean, it feels like Boras overplayed his hand telling the Yankees that the YES Network should help pay for A-Rod. Boras knows very well how infeasible this is. for one, if the YES Network started paying player salaries, wouldn’t all of the YES Network’s revenues be opened up for revenue sharing? that was a major reach by Boras, IMO.
he’s going to get an extension done and in the process will look like he bent over backwards to stay in NY while forgoing the countless other, more lucrative offers that may or may not really exist.
“hmmm—The Reds aren’t high on him and he’s been available all season for the right price.”
huh. i certainly don’t follow the reds, but it seems to me like that would be the type of player they would want to keep around. i stand corrected i guess.
wouldn’t it be easier to sign lowell and put him at first instead of moving 3 players? A-Rod hasn’t played short in a few years now, Jeter’s never played first – so you’re talking about putting 2 superstars in spots that they’re not comfortable and keeping Mike Lowell at 3rd – instead of moving the very good player (Lowell) to first and keeping the super stars where they are comfortable.
“A-Rod’s clauses in his current contract are totally insane and mind numbing.”
you know what would be funny? if the Yankees gave A-Rod an extension, he could theoretically (not likely) still have the opt-out clause in his original contract for 2008. but he technically might not be able to opt out of the extension part since it is a new contract.
so, in a wacky scenario, A-Rod could opt out after next season, sign a 2 year deal somewhere else, and still be able to come back in 2011 and start playing with the Yankees again.
this is completely unrealistic of course, but kindof funny.
signing lowell???
dont the yankees want to get younger???
Scott Boras only cares about one person Scott Boras. IF his clients think different than they are crazy. Scott is only concerned about getting the highest commission check.
I don’t see ARod going to Boston, he may use them as leverage though.
Eventually the current Boston mystique will fade, and the “Fair Weather Nation” will disappear as quickly as it appeared. Boston broke the supposed curse, there’s nothing left to prove…as Manny so eloquently stated.
I’m obviously a Yankee fan, so my decision would be easy. The Yankees possess the richer tradition, and the potential for baseball immortality remains greater in New York. If Alex is looking for a legacy, he stays in New York, Boston could only prove to be a disappointment for him.
Now the Cubs on the other hand, if he could go there and win a World Series for them, well then he becomes a legend in Chicago, much like Schilling in Boston.
Guy – Actually, I heard that Varitek didn’t want to wear the “C” on his jersey when the team named him captain. The guys on the team kept insisting he wear it, until he finally caved in.
I agree though, it still looks ridiculous and/or arrogant for baseball player to wear it. They should leave it for hockey players. I hear it’s only there so hockey refs can easily identify which player on each shift to talk to if there’s ever any ‘discussion’ to be had. This could be wrong, I don’t really know for sure.
Sox fans will always root for the uniform. They would love A-Rod if he wore it, and immediately hate Manny, Lowell, Beckett et al if they ever wore another uniform, just the way they now hate Damon. The hate would run deeper if they left via free agency rather than if they were traded by team management. I think they would show appreciation to Papi, Varitek or Schilling for a little while if they ever wore another uniform, unless they left via free agency.
Just like they’re blind about their own obnoxious disposition, Sox Nation types are blind to the idiocy of some of their players such as Manny. They would utterly hate him if he played for NY. He’s exactly what every incorrect pre-conceived notion is that they’ve been brainwashed to think about NY, but they accept and even admire it only because he’s wearing that uniform. They would merely resent him if he was on any other team except NY and acted that way.
If A-Rod wore their uniform? They’d forget they hate him soooo fast it’d surprise you.
They are such proud hypocrites.
Let’s just hope they lose tonight. I may even watch a little of it, but I doubt it.
joe t yankees-
i actually like your idea better. third baseman easily transition to first. i think hmmm , at the risk of speaking for him, was trying to get some increased range at shortstop. if the yankees had all three players, they’d certainly have the best overall infield in the league no matter who played where.
I’m always amazed at People who come to an open forum like the Lo Hud Blog.where all comments are encouraged,yet some find it necessary to call each others names(because of a difference of opinnion),and tell them to shut up,and then assert their opinnion as fact(THE FINAL AUTHORITY).Things that make you say Hmmmm!
Why not welcome a debate, instead of name calling like kids?We all may walk away with a better understanding of things?
Mike Lowell – Has anyone bothered to look at his stats away from Fenway this year? Also why would the Yanks want to give up their first round pick to Boston of all places (assuming they offer arbitration to him)
Dave Eiland – Just wondering how anyone can say what his coaching style is while also admitting they know nothing about him yet also say he would be no better than Guidry. The hilarity of this blog never ceases to amaze me.
Random thought – I don’t know why people on this blog feel the need to validate their posts all the time by saying IMO. Everyone’s thoughts on their blog is an opinion by nature there’s no need to reiterate that IMO. lol
When I see IMO I see someone that accepts that’s their opinnion ,only not speaking for everyone.
“Dave Eiland – Just wondering how anyone can say what his coaching style is while also admitting they know nothing about him yet also say he would be no better than Guidry. The hilarity of this blog never ceases to amaze me.”
well that added a lot to our knowledge of dave eiland’s pitching philosophy.
“Mike Lowell – Has anyone bothered to look at his stats away from Fenway this year? Also why would the Yanks want to give up their first round pick to Boston of all places (assuming they offer arbitration to him)”
well, think about it like this:
there are NO other appealing options at 3B available after A-Rod and Lowell on the market.
were the Yankees to sign both A-Rod and Lowell, they would SCREW Boston, forcing them to trade for a 3Bman or creating a pretty big hole in their lineup.
it would be a major play that would really hurt their closest division rival. that probably outweighs the draft pick.
that said, i am aware of Lowell’s home/away splits. it’s not that i think he’s a GREAT player. but he is a good player, and would really leave Boston in a bad spot at 3B.
“i actually like your idea better. third baseman easily transition to first. i think hmmm , at the risk of speaking for him, was trying to get some increased range at shortstop. ”
Lowell at 1B would also be acceptable. i actually expect Jeter to bounce back defensively in 2008. i think he was a little banged up this year and it really showed on defense.
so, that could work too.
by the way, i know this is a long shot. just an idea.
Look at Lowell’s home/aways splits last year. One year’s worth of data is not very meaningful.
Jeter has always been a below average SS. What exactly is he going to bounce back to?
Randy l – I never said I have any knowledge of his coaching philosophy. Therefore I can’t pass judgement either way.
hmmm – The man has a .993 OPS at home and a .767 OPS on the road. Is that worth 12mil for 4/5 years to you? If Lowell leaves Boston will probably move Youkilis back to his natural position 3rd base and try to trade for a 1st baseman. I don’t think the Yanks want to give up their first round draftpick and let their biggest division rival pick twice before they pick once.
“some think Robby Cano has too big of a frame to remain at 2B long term… so why not entertain a move to 3B, and slide him up in the batting order to be a run producer?”
Cano was highly rated by the advanced pbp metrics this year. I don’t see any reason to move him to a position where his bat becomes more average unless it’s aboslutely necessary.
Miquel Cabrera is great with the bat, but his play at third is questionable. So much so that Florida plans to move him to the OF. Plus you hear a lot about his attitude and the fact he is on the Mo Vaughn diet plan. So I’m not sure if he is someone worth paying the huge price it would take to get him.
Anyone ever think of maybe moving Cano to third and then finding a second baseman? Just a thought.
If the Yankees re-sign Torre, they’re a joke and they’ve kissed winning the World Series goodbye for the time he’ll manage the team because he is just too stupid an in-game manager esp. with the bullpen to help them win a World Series. The Yanks will never win another World Series with Torre as manager. Re-signing him would merely be a cosmetic, keeping up appearances move from a dottering to demented recluse owner and would tell Yankee fans the team cares more about image than winning. Status quo is garbage and Torre is part of it, period, end of story, case closed.
Let’s reward Torre for one embarassing postseason failure after another since 2001 including two brutal World Series losses, the biggest chokejob in pro sports history, and three embarassing first-round losses incl. two to the same team. To all the morons who say “1996, 1998, 1999, 2000″ uhhhh he was rewarded for that, he should not be rewarded for the horrendous losing after that.
The Yankees need to go in a new, different, better way. Torre is not that way, Trey Hillman the Yankees AAA-Scranton manager is. That guy is hungry to make it in M.L.B. and someone who knows how to handle Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy, Torre is not. Look at Torre now, all silent about his status. He has no self-respect whatsoever cuz a real man would’ve quit, retired, or taken a year off by now. He’s also a true coward cuz he knows if Steinbrenner was what he was as late as 1996, he’d have been fired after 2004, but he says and does nothing to get another check like the clockpuncher he is. He’s a complacent egomaniac who fronts like he’s a humble old geezer and I’m sick of it. He lucked into the job and has been living off the successes of teams he lucked into managing, that’s it.
Oh b.t.w spare me the “Torre is a good people handler” nonsense when lots of managers are that. Here’s two: Mike Scioscia and Clint Hurdle.
“Jeter has always been a below average SS. What exactly is he going to bounce back to?”
i am hoping he bounces back to merely below average. seriously.
he’s been about -5 to -10 runs on defense the past few years. which with his bat has been fine.
this year he was like -20. which is not fine.
so yes, i am expecting him to bounce back to his 2005-2006 levels.
Whoops I meant FOUR embarassing first-round losses. I meant that incl. three straight.
“hmmm – The man has a .993 OPS at home and a .767 OPS on the road. Is that worth 12mil for 4/5 years to you? ”
no, if that’s the contract it would take, forget i said it. i was thinking more dollars, less years.
“If Lowell leaves Boston will probably move Youkilis back to his natural position 3rd base and try to trade for a 1st baseman.”
i thought i read that Boston did not plan on moving Youkilis back to 3B no matter what happens with Lowell. guess not.
My girlfriend’s parents sat a few rows behind A-Rod’s wife at a game in fenway, last series we had up there. She got up and moved because some clown was yelling something too obscene for them to repeat to me. And I’m an adult, not a twelve year old…….
The guy did at least have the slightest bit of class to apologize to her when he found out she was his wife though.
The headline reminds me of Anchorman… “Panda Watch.. Day 6…”
“We tried to talk to the panda but they told me its a real life bear – it’ll rip your face off”
… the Bry Man – the stylish one in the group