Torre has arrived in Tampa
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 18, 2007 
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Accompanied by Brian Cashman, Joe Torre arrived at Legends Field about 70 minutes ago and is now meeting with the Steinbrenners.
Obviously he did not go down there to get fired in person. It seems evident the Yankees are trying to finalize a contract extension for him to return as manager.
More on this story as it becomes available.
So what time are you gonna be on ESPN today Pete?
Now how long until they make announcements on all the other free agents?
Teflon Joe indeed. But in the end, I think it’s still the right move. All they need to do now is move Bowa to Bench and “Promote” Mattingly to AAA manager with the agreement in place that he’s next in line (if it all works out).
Good to know that the only Yankees coach I have ever known is coming back. When they lost to the Indians, I think I was more upset at the fact that an era was ending, nonetheless that the season was over.
Waht do you think, Peter? Reduced salary from $7.2M to a Pinella-esque $4M? One year to prepare for Donny Baseball, or two to finish the first season at the new stadium?
Very interesting……….
great news if they rehire him. I think people fail to realize that the yankees wouldn’t be falling short of their expectations of winning the world series every year, if he hadn’t done so well (along with others) to set the expectations that high. Whatever his shortcomings in bullpen management I think his personality management skills are unparallelled and a lot of people take the significance of his track record for granted.
Even though it seemed that they were not going to fire him, this still seems weird. But it must be, right? I mean, they wouldn’t ask Cash and Trost to escort him to Tampa just to fire him, right?
I guess they almost had to do this. There were no other great candidates, and if they replaced him with anything less than a proven commodity, they would be roasted if the team flopped.
No way Mattingly becomes AAA manager
the folks at nomaas are probably out on the ledge right now…
Good for Mr Torre.
Now get him some pitching.
ASAP
And not soft tossing leftys from Japan or injury questions.
It’s true that he didn’t have enough good pitchers. But Viz was very good before the overuse. There are definitely some problems with Torre’s bullpen usage. I’m not sure if a new pitching coach can voice opinions against Torre’s wishes. Torre’s in-game strategy needs to be improved somehow, though.
OTOH, Torre is best at staying calm in the NY storm, so I hope this works out well for 2008.
Saucy -
Oh, you are SO right about the NoMass boys…
Apparently, Sunny615 read Joel Sherman too.
great news peter.
i’m pretty excited
This is good news indeed!! Go for you, Mr. T!!!
I think becoming AAA will give Mattingly the “credentials/experience” everyone in the media and some fans criticize him for. It will also help him get a feel for the game from the hot seat and learn how to handle all the egos. It would only boost his resume to his eventual rise to lead the Yankees.
Question:
If Boston gets eliminated tonight – do you think Francona’s job will be on the line?
Joe gets two yr deal. Last manager in old stadium, first in new. Agrees to retire after that and give his blessing to Mattingly to reduce pressure. Then takes on some role with team or YES.
Welcome back, Joe
Great. Now Torre gets to have an entire season of use with Joba, Hughes and Kennedy. This is going to end well.
linked to Joel’s article in the last posting.
Yankee announcement at top of the hour
I don’t think Mattingly dealing with the media in Scranton is going to help him any in becoming a manager. He played in NY his whole career, he knows what to expect and how to deal with it.
It’s a good article and has some good points. Personally, I think he swiped me,
Andrea -
No announcements can be made with player transactions until the World Series is over. Free agents can file 10 days after the WS.
The Yankees can negotiate with free agents they still have up to then but not others.
Now I have to wait until 4pm. UGH
Pocono Chris, I didn’t say deal with the media, I said that it would help him deal with the criticism FROM the media about lack of experience…
ESPN news wire is saying that they are close to finalizing a 1-YR extension for Joe with an option for a 2nd year.
Uh ……#9 :
Who cares what happens with Francona or anything Boston ?
Cooler head have indeed prevailed then. I guess this marks the end of King George’s phone privileges.
Welcome back, Joe!
Thing is, by the standards of the New York media, who all love the guy because he’s “classy” and accessible, there will NEVER be any “great” replacement candidates.
Hey everyone’s got some flaw we can pounce on, ‘ceptin good ole Joe of course.
Note how the New York press corps shot down each of the proposed replacements, sometimes using the rather circular argument that he wouldn’t be able to either handle or get along with……The Press
An option for next year?
So we have to go thru all this drama again next year?
I BELIEVE!!!
So happy for Joe, for the Yankees and for Yankee fans. I admire Joe even more for his grace under fire. And this whole manager saga got me onto this board from my lurking past. Great all around. Now let’s get cracking on the lineup for next year…
What are you talking about Don to AAA coach? Thats the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. I think he stays where he is, and he learns when more when Joe gets thrown out of games. No need to send him to AAA. It wasn’t his fault this year and now the attention turns to arod….any good third basemen free-agents other than lowell in on the market?
Does it seem like Torre’s getting much more fan support this year than last?
Last year more than half the people wanted Torre’s head, now it seems to be a lot less.
Mark: Unacceptable. I want an answer NOW.
Bob–
Until the day he retires and says he no longer wants to manage the team we would go through this every year. If he signed a 2 year deal we would be in the same position as today. remember his contract was up this year
bringing a team back from a 14.5 game deficit to the playoffs I think wore them down some.
mel: that’s because last year he managed like crap. This year he managed like a pro.
“Uh ……#9 :
Who cares what happens with Francona or anything Boston ?”
Hey – it’s Manny Ramirez!!!
I wonder if part of the negotiation was requiring (or at least requesting) that he work the pen less.
I would love to see “rules” for all the relievers. Not as strict as Joba’s, but something like “Jose Vizcaino cannot be used for the 3rd day in a row unless the Yankees are leading by 7 runs or less.”
A couple of people have mentioned the Yankees going out and getting pitching this off season. I dont think you’re going to see that happen. It’s very clear that they’re going with kids in the pitching department. they might go out and try to get a stud reliever, but other than that i think you might see a back end of the rotation starter and maybe another middle inning bullpen guy. I think the bullpen is going to be mostly kids and we already know that Hughes, Joba, Wang and probably Pettitte are going to make up 80% of the rotation.
Awful , 100% cosmetic move by the Yankees if they re-sign him. They’ve just sealed the 2008 Yankees fate:
Another season without a World Series championship cuz it’s another year with a postseason-idiot manager at the helm.
Why would the meeting necessarily be a contract extension?
It could be them telling him he’s fired, being let go, or coming back for one more year (not two or more) only at the Yanks price lower than what he made this year which he might refuse. I’d personally summon him to fire him face to face.
Then again, I’d have fired him the day after the Yanks were eliminated from the postseason.
Great way to start out the 2008 season if they bring him back: Hire a lame duck manager who’s dog enough to be cool with being that.
Regardless of the outcome, hopefully this will be George Steinbrenner’s last season running the Yanks cuz he clearly lost it years ago if Torre returns.
Yanks choke vs. Boston in 2004, Torre stays.
Yanks embarrassed by the Angels in the A.L.D.S. for the second time, Torre stays.
Yanks embarrassed by the Tigers then the Indians in the A.L.D.S., Torre stays.
Talk about no imagination, creativity, or fire to change from the Yanks if this living off successes he lucked into overseeing idiot stays. It makes sense for Cashman to want him back since if Torre is fired or let go, Cashman’s next if the Yanks don’t win. Yankee brass self-preservation at its finest.
Pete,
I am disappointed in a Torre return but perhaps I’m wrong. I know that he very accessible to the Media people and spends a lot of time answering questions so everyone can get a story and make a deadline. So I understand why “you” people have been the onslaught of pro Torre stories. If you can would you try to providse an unvarnished rationale for bringing him back. He over works the bull pen, he doesn’t like to take chances with young players, he doesn’t care to scratch for runs prefering to wait for the longball, he doesn’t argue with umpires even in the face of some very flagrant bad calls and he exhibits a total lack of energy. So help me understand why I should be happy with the prospect of another sdeason or two or business as usual. Thanks.
Am I the only one who isnt so happy about this news? All I keep hearing is that there isnt anyone that was good enough for the job. When Torre first got the job as everyone knows had a losing record. I just think that his words have fallen on deaf ears and wouldnt mind having someone on the bench with more fire. Not to mention a manager that wont kill arms during the coarse of a season.
We have had 4 straight dissapointing years in the playoffs. Have our standards been reduced to just getting there? Yes I know its hard enough to make the playoffs,but he has a 200 million dollar team with an all-star at almost every position. We should be contending every year with or without him.
Sorry if this is harsh for some. But im tired of first round exits and its time to stop having someone like Torre on the bench to be a father figure. And have someone who can get the most out of players and make them less confortable when they fail.
Sooner or later we will have to go another route. We wont know if someone is better or worse till they get their shot at the helm. Lets stop assuming anyone else would fail.
This idea that Torre waits for the longball is ridiculous. The Yanks stole plenty of bases this year. And anyways, it makes sense not to risk outs on the bases with an offense as prolific as the Yankees. I think Joe is exactly what he was in 1996- a decent tactical manager, great players manager. Unless there was someone significantly better, there was no reason to replace him. I think a decent manager will not win you or lose you games on balance over an entire season. So unless there was someone who was going to win games by managing, which i doubt, Joe must stay.
I agree about the comments about overworking (and just generally mis-managing) the bullpen. But everything else is wrong.
I thought we had some young players…some guys named Cabrera, Cano. There might have been a pitcher or two also. I think there was even a pitcher that had special rules created so Torre wouldn’t OVERwork him. I can’t remember though, you must be right – it’s a total veteran team.
Doesn’t scratch for runs? The Yankees were tied for 2nd in sacrfice hits.
I don’t have stats to back up the fact that he argues when he should, but I’ve never noticed that. Have others?
Nice try though.
And No Morre Torre, get a life. You can complain about general trends, but ARod going 0 for 14 in a 5 game series has nothing to do with the manager. I think you know that; I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a disappointed fan with an inability to appropriately direct your anger.
Well, I have not read all the responses, but I saw one about the use of the bullpen. It is very simple, if your starting pitchers pitch an average of 7 innings per start and there are 162 games, then you only need your bullpen to pitch 324 innings (assuming no extras) and if your bullpen is seven deep, then the average per reliever is about 50 innings which is perfectly doable. The problem is that if you can’t trust your starters because they are Igawa, Pavano, Old Clemmens, and an assortment of IR residents, and your bullpen only has three or maybe four guys, then you are screwed and people say you overuse your relievers. The Yankees of 1996-2000 had starters that went six and seven deep every game and relievers like Stanton, Rivera, Wetteland and others who were reliable. Let’s see what Joe does with a pitching staff of guys like Hughes, Chamberlain, Pettite, Wang and (hopefully) Santana and a bullpen of Kennedy, Ohlendorf, Veras, Vizcaino and Rivera.
Wow, exciting news. Very interesting, but a wise decision given the alternatives.
Love Donnie and all, but he ain’t ready.
Go Yankees.
It’s just unbelievable to me that anyone could possibly think that the manager has anything more than the slightest effect on the playoffs. Of course, choosing to start a pitcher or not on 3 days rest is a big decision, but nobody was criticizing the decision at the time.
So to be clear, S.o.S.27, you’re saying that if there were no bugs in Cleveland and we won game 2 and the series, that Joe would be a good manager and he should stay?
That’s basically what it comes down to. Judging a manager on the results of such a small sample size is ludicrous.
Jon,
Its not just this year its the last 4. I dont see that being a sample size. You mentioned that he is not the one who went 0-14. That means every manager out there should keep his job. Because they arent out there hitting,pitching or fielding. If you like how Torre used Joba for 2 innings even though Hughes was crusing and had a 5 run lead. Thats fine with me. But dont make it sound like Torre cant do no wrong. I know we are monday morning quarterbacks at times. But his distrust to other players that arent veterans is evident. Which makes him overuse the ones that are in his circle of trust.
Again, im just saying that its time for a change. We have had the most talent for that last 4 years and have ended those years in embarrasing fashion. Maybe some other manager would be able to light a fire under these playoff under achievers. We wont know unless we give someone a chance.
Torre has turned down the deal and is on a plane nack to NY
In late August I was amazed to hear the Yanks were at the top of the league in Sacrifices. I watched almost every game and really don’t remember many sacrifices that were in key spots that that called for scratching out a run. I saw many fly balls that were meant to be HR’s but came up short and managed to move runners. Not many times when desperately needing a run did we see the middle of the lineup bunt. Arod with his great season still only hit the ball a little more than a third of the time. Sometimes you just have to tell the big men to lay one down. But then you’ll get the rep of not managing veteran players.
I don’t blame him. I don’t think it was the money. He was treated pretty badly.
SoS and Jon,
Personally, I think what it really boils down to is this:
Is there a manager available that is BETTER than Joe Torre?
The obvious answer is no. I too have questioned Joe’s decisions, in and out of playoff games, but there is only so much he can control.
Yes, he could have left Hughes in for another inning, but maybe he wanted to have him available for game 5. Who knows.
In terms of having the most talent over the past 4 years, I am not sure I’d agree. We had far more talent in the 90s that cost half as much. The problems go way beyond a manager.
I don’t think that the obvious answer on whether there is a better manager out there or not is no. I think the they need to make a decision on whether they will try to muddle through with what they have and make small adjustments or will they start making big changes. There is only one obvious point and that is everyone is comfortable with Torre inspite of his known shortcomings. There are plenty of people out there known and unknown that could do the job and help bring in the changes the team needs as they move forward.