More from Don Mattingly
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- October
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The news just keeps coming today. Here’s the latest statement from Don Mattingly’s agent:
“Today Brian Cashman reached out to Don Mattingly and expressed the New York Yankees interest in Don becoming a candidate for the current managerial position. Don confirmed his interest and will travel to Tampa early next week to meet with Yankee ownership. No other details are available tonight.”
You would have to think that meeting with the Tampa Trio is one of the final steps in the process. The fact that Mattingly will be in Florida next week is a sign that he could well be the choice.
As I’ve written before, I can’t believe that Mattingly would have left his comfortable retirement to be a coach for four seasons without some sort of promise that he would become manager when Joe Torre left.
Maybe it was just a handshake deal with Big Stein. But Donnie Baseball didn’t just put in four years on a hunch. He made roughly $30 million as a player, he didn’t need the money.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
And the plot thickens…
Ready set and we’re off to a new Yankee era!,just like that.
Don Mattingly is the reason I’m a Yankee fan. A part of me is excited to see him become manager (if it’s true), but another part doesn’t want him walking in to what he’s walking in to and getting beaten before he has a chance to play.
Following Torre’s act is walking the highwire without a net. What will Mattingly’s standard for success be set at?
I’d love to see Mattingly finally get a ring as a manager, from a selfish standpoint. And maybe a good managerial career could get him into the Hall of Fame. But onjectively, I’m not sure he can handle this.
Mattingly is Torre Jr. This doesn’t make much sense. Unless Ca$hmoney thinks he can mold/control Donnie. I am willing to give him a chance I just hope he is open to new ideas and doesn’t just mimic what he learned under Clueless Joe.
Pete,
Although Donnie B-Ball may be Steinbrenner’s choice, my gut tells me that Cashman is leaning towards Girardi.
Don Mattingly is the reason I’m a Yankee fan, but I wonder if Cashman is worried about the comments Mattingly has made about following Torre?
Something tells me that that wouldn’t bother Girardi at all.
Just musing…
Et Tu, Donnie? (sniffle)
Mattingly is looking pretty political here. Cashman already made it explicit that he is in the mix. SO this statement is unnecessary. You gotta wonder if he (or his agent) is trying to create a sense of inevitability, or to try to drum up public support to shut out the other candidates, in particular Joe G. Maybe it’s a coordinated attempt with the Steinbrenners’ blessing to preemptively shut Joe (Cashman’s preferred candidate) out. Given the way he has kept himself in the public mind throughout these events, it’s hard to imagine Donnie staying on if Joe is tapped. All in all, it doesn’t smell good.
This vacancy created one of most coveted jobs in baseball,besides Cashman’s position.
For all the Yankee haters out there, they would do anything for the chance to coach this team,with it’s rich storied history,and bottomless financing!
JOE TORRE added so much CLASS to this franchise.He is forever etched in my heart.Because of torre the Yankees were a force to reckon with!
The statement by Mattingly’s agent is intended to build fan support for his client and make it more difficult for Yankee management to choose anyone other than…his client.
Dr acula, at least it wasn’t for 30 pieces of silver,and a kiss on the cheek!
I think the feeling around the team and the fans has been that it was going to be Donnie..
I think they figured that out a year or so ago, before Girardi decided not to take another job after Florida..
I mean if Girardi was out of the picture, would there be any real question that it was going to be Mattingly?
I don’t even know how to feel about any of this. I need like a month or two away from this team.
It’s hard to support an organization that just behaved the way this one did with this new “management.” From staging Steinbrenner to give an interview, to disrespecting the dignified and classy Torre, it’s all been too much.
What do you do when the team you’ve followed all your life has made you feel dirty?
Message to Randy Levine:
Spare us the “We’re Shocked” line of crap. We all know you didn’t want him back and left it up to him to say no. You thought you had a good PR spin as a back-up but it’s not working. You should have just said “Thanks for 12 solid years but it’s time to part ways.” Even many of those who agree it was time for a change can tell you this was not the way to go about it.
If you’re still not sure why, just read Torre’s comment about commitment again, and think real hard. “Motivation”? He’ll probably be happy to work elsewhere for less money.
PL -
Were you around in the ’60’s?
Losing feels pretty dirty.
Agree or disagree with how recent events have played out, this team has been committed to winning and continues to be committed to winning.
Didn’t Mattingly say he wasn’t ready to manage? Then his agent came out and said that’s false. Yeah, he’s a good choice. I’d take my chances with Joe Girardi or Tony Pena.
PL,
I know how you feel. But on the other hand, we have had an anomalous 12 years of relative sanity. The fact is that for most of Yankee history the ownership has been distasteful at best. Actually the thing that bothers me most is the concerted effort to squeeze the middle class out of the new stadium/executive and celebrity theme park.
The only way to deal with this is to latch on to the time-honored tradition of despising the evil ownership of your team. It’s part of the narrative. From Charlie Comiskey to Marge Schott, owners and their minions have been enemies as much as rival teams. Root for your players against their opponents, but even more so against their bosses.
Maybe so Eric, but I’d rather lose with class and dignity than win with a ownership that treats it’s players and coaches like sh*t. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to lose, but here are different kinds of dirty here… Not the firey George old days crap – it was his team and if he didn’t like them, he fired them, everyone else be dammed – that at least was just plain stupid and ballsy, but the sneaky oily dirty business kind of crap that this FO seems to be now leaves you feeling like you just stole your poor grandmother’s social security check to buy drugs kind of dirty. You can still have a win all mentality and treat your players and coaches right. It would have been much better for everyone if the ownership just let Torre go outright after the game 4 loss. If Torre was nothing else to the organization, he was classy. In every way shape and form and never once disrespected anyone at the top. And everything about the way the FO handled this was the exact opposite. It just feels slimy.
I don’t think they can put in anyone else other than Donnie in the position that if for some reason they didn’t make the playoffs next season the back lash wouldn’t be as great with him at the helm. I could be wrong, but this is my feeling at the moment.
My feeling is if it were Cashman’s choice – it’d be Girardi.
If it were George’s choice (and it is) – it’s Mattingly.
whoever it is – it’s a real tough situation to be in. And if the recent past is any indication, the new guy will be under a really really really small microscope and has to win the world series next year and will more than likely undergo some public ridicule during the course of the year (especially if we have another horrid start next year).
My guess is that George is demanding Billy Martin. It’s why they won’t let him talk to reporters.
I know Pete would prefer us to refrain from republishing articles/blogs what have you from other places, but I thought this was worth bending the rules a little bit
From ESPN:
“It’s unbelievable that — it’s almost like ‘The Bronx is Burning.’ You’re watching something unfold that’s just unbelievable.”
*Boston manager Terry Francona*
“We felt like we failed him as our manager or as his players … It’s going to be weird without Joe. He’s a Hall of Fame manager. It was an honor to play for him, to get his insight, to see what he’s all about.”
*Yankees outfielder Johnny Damon, quoted in Newsday*
“Quite honestly, I thought he did as good job a job as you could humanly do this year. Having no pitching early on, with all the injuries they had, having to go to the bullpen in the first inning in back-to-back games … He kept the team right there … They could have died easily, but Joe kept them right there. Joe’s still top-notch.”
*Atlanta manager Bobby Cox, quoted in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution*
“The way they jerked him around last year was a disgrace. The way they jerked him around this year was an even bigger disgrace. That can wear on you a little bit.”
*Former New York bench coach Don Zimmer, quoted in Newsday*
“I love Joe Torre to death. He meant the world to me. I hate that he’s not going to be the manager. I have a big decision to make if I want to play again next year. I figured I would give myself a month to make the decision.”
*Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte, quoted by Houston’s KRIV-TV*
“I’m sure [Torre] was frustrated with the whole thing … He’s accomplished too much and he’s too distinguished a guy to put up with that. He’s not some first-timer rookie out there. … If he didn’t feel good about it, then he did the right thing.”
*Toronto manager John Gibbons, quoted on MLB.com*
“I think Joe Torre is one of the greatest managers of all-time. I’ve got a great deal of respect for him as a human being, as well as a baseball man. With what he’s accomplished, I think he should manage as long as he wants to manage … He’s earned and deserves to do whatever the heck he wants to do.”
*Indians manager Eric Wedge, quoted in the Cleveland Plain-Dealer*
“I knew that the chances of everything coming together were remote. He’s done really nice things over there. He’s made himself a Hall of Fame manager, that’s what he’s done. He’s had a lot of success.”
*Chicago Cubs manager Lou Piniella, quoted on MLB.com*
Poor Tony Pena. “Now staring in the Token Minority role….Here’s Tony”
If Girardi gets the nod, any chance Paul O’Neil becomes one of the bench coaches?
There is never a chance Paul O’Neill is a coach ever.
Nah, the process will take longer than a week. My guess is that the three names mentioned will each meet with the owners.
btw, O’Neill told Kay he would be interested in caching under Girardi.
Whether Donnie or Joe G., I think they get a bench coach who is older and more experienced for the sake of gravitas. McKeon would be great, but I doubt he’d take it. Think Zimmer with a thicker skin…
whoa: I don’t believe it. Partly because I’ve seen it in print that O’Neill said he’d never come back in the coaching capacity or otherwise, and partly because O’Neill hardly ever leaves the area in which he lives. He doesn’t have the temperment to coach, and he seems to love being around his family.
Where/when did he tell Kay this? I love to see O’Neill back in the Bronx, I just do not believe it.
“My feeling is if it were Cashman’s choice – it’d be Girardi.
If it were George’s choice (and it is) – it’s Mattingly.”
I agree with this. I think Cash can persuade him (them).
Andrea: He said it yesterday (Thursday) on Kay’s show. If you are so inclined, go through the podcast.
I really, really wish Tony Pena would be manager. I want someone fiery. And just think, that would ensure that Posada comes back. Mattingly just doesnt seem to me like a manager. Who knows though.
I’ll be happy with any of the three choices. My list is Pena, Girardi, mattingly.
i would LOVE IT if Oneill was a bench coach. or Tino.
If Paulie wants to coach, he should take over the 3rd base/outfield duties. He can also work with hitters. You need a strategy guy on the bench. Bowa could move into that spot nicely.
First, Levine is a sleezy suit who cares more about his job security than Yankee legacy. If he wanted Torre out, he should be held accountable for severing the ties. He’s afraid of fan blowback, that’s for sure. Who fires him? (I want him fired immediately).
Second, Cashman better pick Girardi as a successor. He’d stand up to Levine and expose any kind of backdoor dealing that we’re going to see with this new leadership team. We’re gonna a need a manager who’s not afraid to piss people off if it means setting the record straight in the end.
Furthermore, Donny makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside but Girardi makes me feel like we’re going to win. Thanks for the Donny consolation prize Mr. Levine but…didn’t your lowball offer to Torre have more to do with winning than warm fuzzy feelings?
Sunny, you might be right.
In hindsight, maybe the FO did bumble this one. Maybe they should have just fired him after the last loss, although I don’t remember fans or the press being particularly open to Torre getting canned in the immediate aftermath of the ALDS.
If the FO mishandled this, then accept that they made a mistake and move on. Just the way you were prepared to accept Torre’s mistakes (leaving Chamberlain out there to be eaten alive, sending an obviously exhausted Wang out to pitch on three days rest, etc.) and move on.
I don’t think the way the FO handled this was slimy, but that’s my opinion. Even if I did think they were underhanded, I’d recognize they were in a no-win position and, at the end of the day, they have to do what they believe is in the best interest of the team that you and I both love.
I don’t understand the lovefest with Joe Girardi as the better candidate to become the next manager.
He’s only got one season of managerial experience under his belt and got fired after a year-long beef with the owner and some very questionable moves he made regarding his young players, especially his young pitchers.
You could make a very good argument that he is a big reason why the Marlins’ young pitching really came up lame this season because they were overworked a year ago, which resulted in Sanchez and Johnson having TJ and will miss all of 2008.
Do any of you really want Girardi to get his hands on Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, Ohlendorf, Humberto Sanchez, etc. after what he did with his young pitching last season?
I certainly don’t want to take that chance.
I also don’t think Cashman is going to want a hard-nosed guy who has a tendency to be combative with upper management. They probably want another laid back guy who has the respect of all the players already and won’t be in public confrontations. This team also wants Mo, Posada, and Pettitte back and that has to be taken in consideration because this team doesn’t want to tear the team apart.
Don’t get me wrong, Girardi isn’t Ozzie Guillen. But, I don’t think he’s far more qualified to manage this team than Mattingly. Managing isn’t rocket science and the inexperience factor is way overrated. No manager has experience until he gets his first job, which means Lou Piniella, Joe Torre, Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa, Tommy Lasorda, Ron Gardenhire, Mike Scioscia all had no managerial experience at some point in their career.
Just like postseason experience from the players is overrated because the two teams with the least amount of it this October are likely to meet in the World Series (Colorado and the Tribe).
Mattingly should be given a one year contract with incentives. If he doesn’t reach the WS, he should not be asked back for 2009.
Paul O’Neill would be great to have around the team, but he would probably have to be absolutely blown away by an offer to even consider leaving his family. We’re talking about someone who just does a handful of games for YES. We’re talking about someone who does not even show up at the Yankees’ Spring Training. It sounds like Paul is just content to stay with his family. Plus, what would Paul do as a hitting coach or a bench coach if he gave a player an order and the player disobeyed him? With Paul’s temper the way that it is, there’s no telling how ugly that that kind of situation could get.
For all the fans out there panicking about the state of the Yanks:
“The Yankees will pay a mere $10 a year in rent in the new ballpark, down from about $10 million in the old one. No, we didn’t leave off some zeros; it’s typical of the sweetheart deals cities make to keep teams in town. And this one comes with a cherry-on-top kicker: According to the prospectus, city officials get their own luxury box “for all regular-season team home games.”
“Baseball’s 2002 collective-bargaining agreement permits teams to deduct stadium debt service and construction costs when calculating revenue sharing. Bottom line? Baseball’s 29 other teams will effectively bear a third of the cost of the Yankees’ new ballpark.”
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/1.....2007081011
Slightly corrupt? Maybe. Devious? Yes. Genius? Hell yes. The Yanks are in great financial shape and have young pitching. The Yanks are still a dream destination for free agents and potential managers.
You people impute nefarious motives to Levine that don’t comport with general business practices. Guys like that only do what ownership wants them to do.
How do you think Mattingly will react to an offer of a one year contract with performance incentives (for motivational purposes) that vests for 2009 ONLY if the Yankees reach the World Series?
Actually, I think Paul O’Neill would be the perfect replacement…the respect of everyone in the clubhouse, the fire (but not the baggage) of Pinella, and the freshness that is so obviously needed on what has been becoming a stale Yankee team.
And one more thing. I don’t like corporate types because I don’t trust them. They lie alot. Boras and Levine strike me as two peas in a pod. If this Torre witchunt is in any way tied to him dropping Arod to 8th in the batting order in 2006…I swear to God…If Arod/Boras have been schmoozing Randy Levine since the 2006 offseason…if Arod/Boras have also lobbied against Girardi since he’s too much like Buck Showalter…If the core of Mo/Po/Andy all follow Torre and all the money required to re-sign them is diverted into Arod’s next absurd contract…this team is in deep doodoo and I’m becoming a Cubs fan. If the 2008 team includes Arod but no Joe, Mo, Po and Andy plus Mattingly instead of Girardi. I’m done.
“How do you think Mattingly will react to an offer of a one year contract with performance incentives (for motivational purposes) that vests for 2009 ONLY if the Yankees reach the World Series”
With $5 mil guaranteed? He’d jump at it.
Giuseppe Franco–Yeah, Girardi got one season under his belt and Manager of the Year. Girardi’s employer was an a-hole and was yellng at the umpire during a game, so Girardi told him off. Tony Pena manage a Royals team to respectable record with they had over there. While Mattingly told someone that he was ready to manage, but his agent denies it; not Mattingly himself.
Everyone seems to forget that O’Neill’s temper was always shown against something he did, never because of something someone else did. I don’t think he’d go kicking ove a water cooler because someone hit into a double play.
whoa: maybe he kept saying he’d never consider it in the past because he never thought it would be a consideration. That would be awesome though. I’d love to see him back.
_How do you think Mattingly will react to an offer of a one year contract with performance incentives (for motivational purposes) that vests for 2009 ONLY if the Yankees reach the World Series?_
Great idea.
Appease the fanbase by pissing off another Yankee icon after treating Torre like garbage this past week.
That’ll really show ‘em.
Ah the Wangkee rears his ugly head again and surprise surprise he’s blaming A-rod coming up with silly little conspiracies. Hey Wangkee what ever happened to your megadeal?
I think O’Neill would offer an instinctive presence among Yankee coaches that has been lacking since Zimmer left. Torre really never was the same in game manager without him.
I am sure that Girardi and Pena are doing the same thing…but Mattingly was the only one that announced it. The hiring process is not going to be just 1 person. I would of thought that Cashman would meet all 3 of them in NY or where ever he is and then the finalist would have to go to Tampa and meet with the clowns but not all 3 of them. Hopefully Mattingly knows how to manage a bullpen and maybe learned things from Torre not knowing how to do so.
Hi ‘Hello’
How’s Arod managing the drop to 8 in the 2006 ALDS? Still crying about it I see. That 1 RBI is looking pretty mega great, isn’t it? You want this to be Arod’s team. If it happens, enjoy it because he won’t win a thing without the winners that made this team a dynasty. Book it.
Bob from NJ great post.. no luxury tax for the yanks for a few yrs.
espn classic showing yankee WS games.. watched game 5 2000 now game 5 2001 is on.. man the old yankee teams in the Torre Dynasty could really pitch…
4 in 5 yrs and 5 world series appearances in 7 years.. they were so well rounded.. they did everything pretty well…
the yanks will be good next year and in 2 years they will be way different then this yr and much younger…
_Giuseppe Franco—Yeah, Girardi got one season under his belt and Manager of the Year. Girardi’s employer was an a-hole and was yellng at the umpire during a game, so Girardi told him off._
In case you haven’t noticed, the Yankees are still owned by George Steinbrenner, who wrote the book on owners who like to remind his managers who is in charge.
Torre was Manager of the Year twice during his Yankee tenure and it didn’t help him one iota this week. That doesn’t mean squat because that voting process is sometimes a political process like winning an Emmy.
Girardi may have won MOTY, but his team still finished under .500.
Excellent posts, Giuseppe and Bob from NJ.
In regards to the “ingenius” stadium deal: putting us in the strongest financial position in our history is the handiwork of everyone’s favorite fire hydrant, Randy Levine.
Question – if Mo goes to another team, does he still get to wear #42? Or does his grandfathering only apply as long as he’s on the Yankees?
MJL: that’s a really good question. I’d assume he has to give up his number.
So what happened to the megadeal Wangkee? You still haven’t answered that I see.
BOB! The Yankees are paying $800 million to build the stadium… the $10 rent may be for the land the stadium is on, but gimme a break. What a stupid point!
Giuseppe Franco,
I didn’t ask how the fans would react. The fans are irrelevent in this equation.
I asked how you think Mattingly would react.
_I think O’Neill would offer an instinctive presence among Yankee coaches that has been lacking since Zimmer left. Torre really never was the same in game manager without him._
This is such BS. I loved Zimmer too, but his departure didn’t lose any games for the Yanks since 2003.
It’s their starting pitching that hasn’t been the same since 2003 and that’s why they haven’t been to the WS ever since.
When you replace a Pettitte and Clemens with a Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez (who were both busts) and Randy Johnson goes from an ace to a bum before our eyes has a lot more to do with their lack of postseason success than a guy with a plate in his head.
If Zimmer was such a great X’s and O’s guy, he would’ve had more success as a manager himself.
“In regards to the “ingeniusâ€? stadium deal: putting us in the strongest financial position in our history is the handiwork of everyone’s favorite fire hydrant, Randy Levine.”
That’s great. He should stick to accounting.
There was a time when a WS share was a significant amount of money to a ballplayer. These days, it’s pocket change to most players with an NY on their cap.
I’d love to see the Yankees raise the value of a WS title in each player’s (and manager’s) compensation.
“Torre was Manager of the Year twice during his Yankee tenure and it didn’t help him one iota this week.”
Is tonight the night of silly points? What two years was he MOTY? 1996 and 1998! He was still being offered a paycheck 40% bigger than any other manager. 3x as much as Francona…
Torre was offered a significant amount of money. The Yankees would not guarantee him more than one year and he decided to walk away. No one did anything wrong here. Yankees did what was right for the Yankees and Torre did what was right for Torre.
I am sure Mattingly knew that he would have to work hard the last 4 years if he wanted the manager job. I dont think he expected it to just be handed to him. Nothing could of been “handed to him” before they saw what he was like in the a coaching situation.
He was the fall guy, Master Wanker.
It’s very nice to see Tony Pena getting a look even though it’s probably just to follow the rules of interviewing a minority candidate. Tony had one excellent year by making the Royals a playoff contender. There’s always been debate over whether he was fired or whether he was burned out and quit. I just think that it was the strain of managing for a front office who wasn’t committed to putting a good product on the field. The Royals front office never would show a commitment to winning. Tony had to be almost a miracle worker and pull off a Houdini act to win. He would have no such problem if he ever becomes the manager of the Yankees. The Yankees are committed to winning, putting the best possible product on the field, and they have the resources and the drive to make things happen. I’ll miss Torre, but I still believe in this team and this franchise. The Yankees still have the talent on hand to be very competitive.
_I didn’t ask how the fans would react. The fans are irrelevent in this equation._
_I asked how you think Mattingly would react._
He’d be insulted and would have every right to feel that way. No chance that is ever going to happen because the fans do matter in cases like that.
The new manager will probably get a 3 year deal, maybe 4 years.
Bobcat: The next Yankee manager will be paid between $500,000 and $1,000,000 a year and get a two or three year deal. Do you think Torre would have accepted a 3 year, $3 million deal? There is no comparison here.
“He was the fall guy, Master Wanker.”
That’s great. The entire front office should stick to accounting.
$30 mil is ALOT of money.
But just seeing that kind of made me think, wow, A-Rod’s gonna make more in a year than Donnie made in his whole career.
Crazy.
Four years, Guiseppe? Dream on.
One year with a the highest base in the game and a vested option based on performance.
The point isn’t the money. The point is the “incentive” aspect of the contract. That and the lack of commitment from the organization.
Giuseppe Franco–Yeah, the Yankees are still owned by “The Boss”, but he isn’t Loria. Girardi max out the talent that was given to him. They weren’t supposed to be in the WC hunt that season, but they were.
All the replacement candidates have been in place for awhile now…..The real issue I believe, is the trransition of power could have been and should have been much smoother and with far more class and professionalism…..Out here in Orange County Ca., the local print & electronic media is just having a field day at the Yankee F.O expense…..So even 3000 miles away, the Yanks are taking a PR hit right in the chops…..
Mattingly has been sipping green tea with Torre on the bench when Girardi pushed a bunch of scrubs to the brink of playoff qualification.
I love Mattingly but I trust Girardi as a manager based on his success in Florida and his great situational game-calling as a Yankee catcher. He’s Posada’s mentor for chrissakes. Donny is like an idol. You admire him but he doesn’t teach you anything.
Torre had a right to turn down the offer. He should not really have been insulted, however. He was given a generous offer and the incentives were added to give him the opportunity to make more. Three lethargic exits in the first round after a historic embarrassment in the ALCS in 2004. Motivation is not such a bad thing… The Yankees spin and Joe spins it back. Both did what they thought was right and it is time to move on.
Some stats: Half of the major league managers make $1M per year or less.
Let’s look at recent WS winning managers pay:
2004 – Boston – Francona – $1.65m
2005 – Chicago – Guillen – $1.1m
2006 – St. Louis – La Russa – $2.8m
Other remaining managers this year:
Wedge: $1m
Hurdle: $800,000
Even with the bump for NY cost of living, Torre was well paid.
_Four years, Guiseppe? Dream on._
_One year with a the highest base in the game and a vested option based on performance._
I said 3 years, maybe 4 years.
How about we bet that the new manager doesn’t get a one year deal?
I’m serious. There is no chance in hell that Mattingly or Girardi is going to get a one-year offer because they’d both tell Yankee management to stick that offer where the sun doesn’t shine.
Pat,
Outside of NY, everyone loves to bash the Yankees for whatever reason they can find. That is nothing new and the Yankees and their fans have never really paid attention to it.
Stupid debate: Next Yankee manager will definitely get two to three years AND the total pay for those two to three years will be less than the $5m that Torre was guaranteed for one year. It is a terrible comparison. The Yankees will give the longer deal but will not have the financial commitment that will stop them from getting rid of a manager that is ineffective.
I’m pretty disappointed in the Front Office. It’s never easy to say goodbye to a long-term player or manager, especially for the Yankees who have a tradition of keeping important fixtures for 15-20 years. Unfortunately the current leaders do not know how to gracefully part ways, and it’s getting ridiculous. The way they handled Bernie last year…offering him a minor league contract after all that he had done. Just a kick in the teeth. And this year with Torre, keeping him on hold for a week and a half, and then offering that incentive BS. Could they possibly have taken him for granted any more? At what point do they realize that winning the World Series every year is IMPOSSIBLE, and that when they fail the first people they need to look at are THEMSELVES.
What a bum Joe Torre is, getting us to the postseason every year and winning 4 championships and 6 pennants…such a loser!
“I’m serious. There is no chance in hell that Mattingly or Girardi is going to get a one-year offer because they’d both tell Yankee management to stick that offer where the sun doesn’t shine.”
Joe was disrespected, no question about it. 3 years 81 million (27/per) for the 1 RBI wonder and he asks for a raise + a lifetime contract. 12th straight playoff appearance for the 7 million dollar man and he gets offered a paycut and a temp job.
Yankee baseball at its best.
Chuck, you’ve got it nailed.
The one thing I’d add is that no one seriously expected the $3 mil worth to be “motivation.” Clearly, Torre has always been motivated.
Admittedly, the $5 mil base was a pay cut, pure and simple (justified, in my opinion, based on past performance). The $3 mil was a reward for acheiving the goal.
“a tradition of keeping important fixtures for 15-20 years”
Huh? What fixtures are those? Yankees rarely keep players that long — nor does any other team in baseball. Bernie was a rare exception — Jeter will likely be one too. Who else? (Obviously we are talking about the time since free agency began)
Now the Yanks are going to lose Bowa also!!! This stinks!! He is probably signing with the Mariners because he has to let them know soon and the Yanks wont have a manager within the next week. Cant the Yanks just tell Girardi or Mattingly, your 3rd bench coach is Bowa and your pitching coach is Eiland!! I mean come on like 1 of them would actually turn down the chance to manage because of that. Bowa was a great 3rd base coach and someone who actually had a mouth to yell at players when they needed it. But most importantly he really helped Cano with his defense and when he just so happens to fall asleep during the game. If the Yanks lose Mo, Posada, Arod and Pettitte retires this team will really be a mess!!!
Master Wanker, that was a 156-RBI wonder.
the new manager will get 2 yrs or more.. probably more.. they deserve it.. torre was already here 12 yrs and is 67 yrs old.
I find it interesting that cashman and trey hillman are very close and they talk once a week for yrs. WOW.
the baseball world is a small communnitty.
the Yanks will be good next yr.
starting rotation(almost no old crap) joba, hughes, wang, pettitte, and kennedy or moose.. not bad and many young dudes waithing in the wings..
pen; himberto sanchez(do not forget about him), mariano, ohlendorff and many young guys….
If Arod goeas bye bye they will save a ton of $ but need to make a trade the FA market is barren..
Mo and Jorge will be Yanks….
Wang man: Joe was not disrespected. How does getting paid more than any major league manager qualify as “disrespect”? Indeed, he wanted a multiyear contract, but the Yankees were unwilling to do that now. They offered him one more year and he rejected it. The bonuses for post season play were not meant to insult, they were added compensation… By the way, Joe Torre has been a poor in-game manager and it has only gotten worse over the past couple of years.
ARod is being compensated for being the best player in major league baseball, not for four games at the end of the season. He did not lose the ALDS. If you want to blame it on one player, it was Wang. But if you want to blame it on one person, it was Torre. Wang was shaky all of September and Joe put far too much reliance on him.
“Master, that was a 156-RBI wonder.”
Joe’s regular season track record was pretty wonderful too Young boy.
“Joe’s regular season track record was pretty wonderful too Young boy.”
Then you did not watch that many games. Torre destroyed bullpen pitchers (why do you think there were Joba rules? to protect him from Torre!). Torre was an ineffective in game manager. Torre was a good man and apparently a terrific off-the-field leader and mentor. He got a “generous offer” as he admits. He wanted more than the Yankees would give so we part ways with thanks to Joe.
“Wang man: Joe was not disrespected. How does getting paid more than any major league manager qualify as “disrespectâ€??”
I dont know…how would any other team in baseball reward a manager who manages the team to 12 straight playoff appearances (besides the Brave I guess cause that dilutes your argument).
“If you want to blame it on one player, it was Wang. But if you want to blame it on one person, it was Torre.”
Oh so Wang is not a person.
Chuck, another good post.
Stuart – I agree with all, except perhaps Mo. I don’t know if he’s serious or he’s a graduate of the Sheffield School of Contract Negotiation.
“I agree with all, except perhaps Mo. I don’t know if he’s serious or he’s a graduate of the Sheffield School of Contract Negotiation.”
Let me get this straight, you can’t tell the difference between Mo’s character and Gary Sheffield’s?
No Wangster — I was saying that if you limit it to players, Wang must get most of the blame (far more than ARod or any other offensive player) because he took us out of two games very early. If you expand the universe to non-players, Torre is to blame as well because he put too much trust in a pitcher that was ineffective for weeks leading into the playoffs.
Bobby Cox gets paid $2M per year. Would Torre accept a 2 or 3 yr deal for $2M each year (with no incentives, of course — don’t want to insult him)? Torre wanted multiple years with a ton of money. He didn’t deserve that right now. 12 playoff appearances with the best line up in the league. Yankees won as often because of Torre as they did despite Torre.
Questions to all and especially to Pete:
Do you think the next manager’s contract will also include performance-based clauses? They will take a lot of heat for not enforcing this to a new guy (not proven) while insisting it on Joe (proven).
If Mattingly gets the job and we don’t make the playoffs next year, will they fire Donnie Baseball?????
“’I agree with all, except perhaps Mo. I don’t know if he’s serious or he’s a graduate of the Sheffield School of Contract Negotiation.’
Let me get this straight, you can’t tell the difference between Mo’s character and Gary Sheffield’s?”
You are a confused sole. Keep on screwing up the arguments without logic. There is no mention of character in the point you are responding to. Why bring that up?
Chuck,
My point is not to pin blame on Arod above Torre or Wang. Wang cost us in 2007. I was just laughing at the irony of the situation here. Torre and Arod both dominate the regular season. Arod wins his MVP’s and Torre gets this team into the playoffs every year. It’s complete domination. Now you have the front office bowing down to these absurd contract demands for one guy and lowballing the other. If you can’t judge Arod by his postseason work than you can’t judge Joe Torre for not winning a world series. I guess Torre needs team Boras to do his PR work next time, huh?
Chuck, The point I was hoping to make is that it’s not only in NY that the FO is getting hammered, it’s pretty much nationwide….I read all the NY papers everyday, and they’re just drilling Levine ( he’s a hump ) as well as the Nitwit Brothers…..Even a schmuck like McCarver hammered the point home last night on National TV…..From a PR perspective, it could be the worst non-illegal headline to hit the Yanks in the past 35 years…..
Chuck -
Uh, Bernie, Mo if he re-signs, Posada if he re-signs, Jeter, Donnie Baseball, Willie Randolph, Torre…but even if I was wrong, which I’m not, that had very little to do with my overall point, so relax.
scholars torre has had incentives in his contract while with the Yanks.. why did not crack reporter aski him if he ever had any incentives in his previous 3 or 4 contracts with the yanks..
the bottom line the yanks wanted him back but only for 1 yr and then if they won it all or close they would bring him back. torre was tired of the constant behind his back nonsense and the end of year waiting to see if he would be back so it was unacceptable.
why does this need to be so negative, it could be a simple as I just stated..
again randy levine is a dick but it is irrelevant..
“You are a confused sole. Keep on screwing up the arguments without logic. There is no mention of character in the point you are responding to. Why bring that up?”
First, it’s spelled ’soul’. I’m not a shoe. Second, there is no mention of character in his post, no, not directly at least. But there is an implication of charachter and I’m not going to ignore it. Young boy’s not sure if Mo means what he really says when he pleaded for Joe’s return or if he’s just trying to take advantage of the Yankees for more money. Young boy shouldn’t confuse Mo with Sheffield and Sheff’s antics so then maybe I wouldn’t have to keep screwing up arguments without logic. M-kay?
Is anyone else as impressed as I am at the amount of animosity aimed at anyone that approaches the game (and the business of the game) with a degree of rationality?
So how bout them Yankees?
hey, havent’ heard this anywhere else but, i live in seattle and on local sports they announced that larry bowa will be the 3rd base coach of the mariners next year and mel stottlemyer will be pitching coach. mattingly really could have used larry as the bench coach if that’s how we end up going. but pretty surprising to see mel taking this gig as well, i thought he was done with coaching.
Clearly, Garth. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
Name one manager in MLB who started his managerial career in recent years with a one-year contract?
Two years? Perhaps. But never one year. It doesn’t work that way.
Girardi or Mattingly will probably get 3 years.
Yeah, Done coaching in the Bronx….If this is to be true,losing a solid baseball guy like Bowa stings……
stottlemyere lives in Seattle so he will be coaching at home……………………………
MJL — Only one of the people you mentioned was on the Yankees for 15 consecutive years (Bernie) and he was let go unceremoniously this year. Donnie and Wille played for the Yankees for less than 15 years each and later came back as coaches which put them over the 15 year mark (barely).
So yes, you were wrong. There is no tradition of keeping anyone for 15-20 years. Only Bernie qualifies as staying for that long in one stretch.
Giuseppe is correct. First year managers generally get two to three year deals with salaries of less than $1mm per year.
It seems that nearly all of us are in agreement that the next manager will receive a contract of 2+ years at a combined salary of less than the 1 year base offered to JT.
BTW, Garth. Trey Hillman has is getting a multi-year deal to manage the Royals next season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3069833
I’ll bet you anything you want that either choice will get at least 2 years to manager the Yanks and 3 years isn’t out of the question.
Totally off-topic but interesting stat:
In the ‘62, ‘63, and ‘64 WS, Mickey Mantle batted .130 (6 for 46) with one double, one home run, and one RBI.
Even “true” Yankees have gone through stretches of sub-par post-season play.
2008 will be a rebuilding year for the yankees. rebuilding their image… this will have on-field repercussions. i’d hate to be in the boots of the next NYY manager for 2008 who might not even make the play-offs. Can you imagine the second-guessing that will take place come october 2008?
torre actually was the lowest paid manager in mlb. cuz the first 6.95 mill, was actually hazardous duty pay. the remaining balance was to manage. good luck joe wherever you go.
we now know what bowa thinks of this org.
I have no fear about Mattingly being able to do the job. Its baseball, not rocket science.
My fear? How is it going to end for him? How is this organization going to dump on him?
Is he going to be the next guy who feels like he can’t go back to Yankee Stadium?
What so many people miss in all this is not about making a change. Many of us felt it was time for a new manager.
It was HOW it was done. Don’t you find it funny that it seems everybody who leaves this organization has hard feelings about it?
Yogi didn’t come back for 14 years. Zimmer, Bernie, Torre, these are all people who did a helluva lot of this organization and every one of them have hard feelings about how it ended.
Now, is Donnie going to be next? If the “edict” is, “World Series or bust”, then this may be a one year gig for Donnie. That means, forget about seeing him in the new Yankee Stadium.
Are some of you ready for Don Mattingly to be the next guy who shoved out the door and have hard feelings about it?
For an organization that sells pride and tradition to its fan base, it sure as hell hasn’t practiced it lately.
If these guys running the team are half as smart as they think they are, they will do some things to change that in the coming weeks.
Regardless of how ANYBODY feels about Joe Torre, there is no reason why he shouldn’t be a lifelong member of the Yankee Family.
The George of yesteryear would make that happen. Is anybody remaining in a decisionmaking capacity capable of doing it now?
AROD is not being compared to MAntle. He is being compared with the likes of Ortiz, Manny and Pujols.
Also, the demand to be the highest paid player in the game, allows the fan to set a high standard for him.
If only he would bring some of that arrogance into the batter’s box in a playoff game.
Randy Levine and George Steinbrenner are the Marge Schott’s of the American League in every sense of the name. Steinbrenner and Levine have the same lack of character, lack of loyalty and lack of understanding and appreciation for what a quality manager is. When Schott fired rookie manager Lou Pinella after Lou took the Red’s to and then won the World Series, Schott rewarded him by firing him. Clueless!!! When Torre chronicled one of the baseball’s all-time best careers and another playoff run, Levine and Steinbrenner proved that they too are like Marge Schott in terms of character and meagerness of understanding of baseball. Neither Steinbrenner nor Levine have any more understanding of baseball, character or the world than did Cincinnati’s racist, ignorant, clueless and unappreciative owner Marge Schott.
Levine and Steinbrenner are clueless and characterless morons! The exodus of A-Rod and company, because of ownership and management that has no heart will be telling and deserving. Way to go Steinbrenner and Levine… You guys are the embarrassment and denigration of baseball and professional sports!
Marge Schott, George Steinbrenner and Randy Levine are the all-time greatest examples of clueless and characterless ownership and management in baseball’s history.
Lou Pinella and Joe Torre deserved better!!!
You’ve lost a lifelong Yankee fan forever! Joe Torre had honor, class and the character that Levine and Steinbrenner will never have!!!
Randy Levine and George Steinbrenner are the Marge Schott’s of the American League in every sense of the name. Steinbrenner and Levine have the same lack of character, lack of loyalty and lack of understanding and appreciation for what a quality manager is. When Schott fired rookie manager Lou Pinella after Lou took the Red’s to and then won the World Series, Schott rewarded him by firing him. Clueless!!! When Torre chronicled one of the baseball’s all-time best careers and another playoff run, Levine and Steinbrenner proved that they too are like Marge Schott in terms of character and meagerness of understanding of baseball.
Anyone that is a true Yankee fan should root for any other team. If Mattingly can’t see how horribly he will be treated as well! Joe Torre had honor, class and the character that Levine and Steinbrenner will never have!!!
Eric Young: You must mean only 62 and 63 for Mantle. In 1964 The Mick had 3HR, 8 RBI, 6 BB a 333.467/792 line.
The 1962 World Series featured a “Who’s better” turned to “who’s worse” contest between Mantle and Mays (who got along well with each other). I sometimes think the Koufax game 1 performance is the most dominating ever. Tom Tresh must have swung with his eyes closed and got lucky to hit that home run.
still no word from Cashman on my request to be insulted with a guaranteed $5 million offer.
“Wang cost us in 2007.” How could a pitcher cost a team when he won 19 games for his team ? Without Wang, the Yankees probably would not have made for playoffs this year!
You’re right, Jim – I should have said the ‘61, ‘62, and ‘63 WS.
why not hire giradi as bench coach donnie as manager and paulie for third base i think paulie will give this team touhness