Posada and Rivera have all the leverage now
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- October
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You know who is having a good day? Fern Cuza. He’s the agent for Mariano Rivera.
There’s also some celebrating going on in the offices of Seth and Sam Levinson, who represent Jorge Posada.
The Yankees can’t control what Alex Rodriguez will do. But they would seem to have little choice but to give Posada and Rivera whatever they want. Otherwise they risk even more backlash from a fan base that is angry to start with.
The Yankees so badly mangled the ouster of Joe Torre that they have to appease people by bringing back two popular veterans, if only to change the tone. And the tone is ugly now.
Rivera? Two years and $28 million. Posada? Three years and $43. Those figures may sound outrageous, but Cuza and the Levinson have all the leverage on their side.
The new manager, whoever that may be, needs a catcher and a closer.
And trust me on this, there will be no “performance-based model” for those guys.
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on Friday, October 19th, 2007 at 6:10 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Pete, come on, the Yankees don’t have to appease any fanbase. What, you think people are suddenly not going to show up? BS, they’ll be there, and if the Yankees are playing well, they will be there en mass. And I don’t think this changed anything. Those figures look about what they probably would have thrown out there to begin with. Rivera has a case of a bruised ego, nothing like $ to cure that. Posada too, to a lesser degree. But you know what, if they are that driven by the money, then let them go, have fun playing for another team with fans that don’t appreciate you boys. As the Replacement Level Yankees weblog put it:
“With Clemens, A-Rod, Abreu, Pettitte, Rivera and Posada gone, the payroll will drop by over $90 million (before the replacements are brought in). After 2008, with Giambi, Mussina, Farnsworth and Pavano off the books, another $48 million is freed up. Over the next two offseasons, the Yankees will have nearly the entire Red Sox payroll freed up.”
Alex will be back, but Abreu Pettitte Rivera Posada and Clemens may all be gone, and thats a lot of old money that are on the downward trend (Posada’s huge year notwithstanding-catchers can fall off the cliff at any moment).
The Yankees “so badly mangled” getting rid of Torre by offering to make him the highest paid manager in the game???
Mo and Po will get exactly what they would have gotten before Torre decided to leave the Yankees. And yes, it is a fact that Torre decided to leave the Yankees, not the other way around.
Mo and Po weren’t going to give the Yanks a discount if Torre came back and they aren’t getting more money because Torre is going… this is a business and anyone who thinks otherwise is just naiive.
I’m not scared of three years $43 Mil for Jorge. What I am scared of is five years $71 Mil for him. The last thing we need is a hobbling, overpaid, underperforming starting catcher for two or three years.
I’m fine with overpaying those two, they’ve earned it. But I wish they’d use some other leverage. It’s rather tasteless to use the departure of Torre as a means to squeeze more out of the Yankees. If they’re serious about their allegiance to Torre and are truly insulted by the treatment of Torre, then they need to do the right thing and make a statement by cutting off the Yankees.
Posada I can understand because he wants to get a taste of free agency. Mo’s bothered by something else altogether. I hope they can work it out, though.
Pete, I’ve agreed with you every step of the way on the Torre fiasco.
But now with the way the Yankees demeaned Torre, and in the wake of their disrespect for Bernie, I suspect Posada and Rivera are going to demand much more than you suggest, especially if the Yankees hope to forestall them from filing for free-agency.
My guess is 4 years for $56 million for Posada. And if he wants it, a third year for Mo. If not, then two years for $36 million.
I also wouldn’t be surprised, if they feel constrained to sweeten their current deal with Pettitte, either by increasing his salary for one year or offering a second.
Thanks, Kill-Schill, for the citation to my blog. But after venting on MY blog, I feel a little, just a little, less enraged than I was beforehand.
sounds cheap to me
“But they would seem to have little choice but to give Posada and Rivera whatever they want.”
It is a bunch of bull.
For every thing there is a price.
The only place I see any “backlash” is from the writers covering and exploiting this story and not from a fan base that isn’t angry to start with ! All of the polls and people who are posting on blogs and boards are split 50/50 on this so once again lets not start the chicken little retort of the sky is falling !
Were there eyewitnesses to the agent’s celebrating? Because maybe it just makes things more difficult knowing the Yanks are willing to cut bait especially when it comes to people on the (inevitable)down side of their career. I believe Mo will be back with a hefty contract.
Nothing wrong with a contract that includes incentives based on performance. AROD has some in his, correct?
I’m not angry. I think the Yanks did what they had to do. Change is hard. Time to move on.
_Pete, come on, the Yankees don’t have to appease any fanbase._
Are you kidding me?
It’s the fans that make the Yankee world turn and their pocketbooks fat and Steinbrenner knows that better than anyone.
Angry fan base? I am a season ticket holder and I am glad to see Torre gone. If Mo and Posada want to leave because of Torre, farewell to them as well. These 2 are aging stars and Cashman should not overpay for them.
There is a big slary dump opportunity here, Torre, Clemens, Mo, Posada, A-Rod this year and Giambi and Moose next year. Over $110 million in payroll out the door. Cashman will be able to figure out what to do with $110 mil.
Peter –
1. I agree with you about Mo and Posada having a greater degree of leverage. Just based on performance this year and no other viable options for the Yanks, these guys were in the drivers’ seat. Now, they can virtually name their price.
2. I am envious of your being at that press conference today. I was able to follow it at work, by blog entries and the ESPN broadcast on my desktop. Sounds like it was riveting.
3. Your coverage has been first rate, as always – objective, spiced with good analysis and a witty cynicism. The hot stove season is in full blast, making the blog more important than ever.
Well said Pete. In fact it might take 3 years to wrap up Mo. $40 million over 3 years would not shock me.
“Your coverage has been first rate, as always – objective, spiced with good analysis and a witty cynicism. The hot stove season is in full blast, making the blog more important than ever.”
Amen.
Bring ‘em back.
Here’s a question…Do you think the management/front office of every team that ever won a WS title was filled to the last man with excellent baseball minds and/or good decisionmakers that never let their own personal agendas get in the way of what was really best for the team? Come on!!! So what if the Yanks have “weasels” in the front office. I bet you could count on one hand the number of teams that currently don’t have any so-called “weasels” in important positions.
I loved Joe Torre just as much as the next Yankee fan. However, I also loved Buck Showalter in ‘94 and ‘95 when the Yanks first started to get on the winning track again. Joe Torre is a man…a good man and a good baseball mind…but he certainly wasn’t perfect and life can go on without him. That’s just the way baseball (and life in general) is…Things have to change eventually. Heck, I wish we could still field the ‘27 lineup, but, despite that, we’ve still managed to win a few titles since the days of Ruth, Gehrig, Lazzeri, Combes, et al., haven’t we?
Now that change is here, we’ve got to stop martyring Joe Torre and wringing our hands about what a travesty the Yanks will become. If they tank the next few years, then so be it…I lived through the Dallas Green and Stump Merrill years, I can live through another lean period. One day we’ll be back!!! In the meantime, just enjoy the youngsters (Joba, Hughes, IPK, etc.), and try to support whoever takes Torre’s place…
I think MO just needs to chill a bit. That statement attributed to him: “they are just one of thirty teams now”, is absurd. Does that mean KC is in the mix? Tampa Bay? I doubt it.
Granted, MO is phenomenal, but one could argue all day as to a closer’s worth.
MOre than any other player, his legend and stature as a ballplayer, has everything to do with being on the Yankees.
I just hope Mo considers this while shopping around.
So if Posada and Rivera leverage this against the Yankees, aren’t they being as much “weasels” as the Yankees were, according to you Pete? That seems like a pretty s**t move to me, yet you give them a free pass…
Zack:
I’m sorry, when did the object become to have a low payroll? The Yankees have to win the W.S. every year, your team president said that. Nothing else is acceptable.
They are not going to shed payroll. They are going to spend whatever it takes because that is what they do.
The only difference is they won’t have the same manager.
The Yankees are not becoming Oakland. Once they’re done, the payroll will be well, well north of $200 million. They still have to pay Pavano for God’s sake.
I think this has less to do with people being mad about Joe Torre’s exit and more with the fact that there are no better options than Rivera and Posada, both of whom happen to be great players, fan favorites, and career Yankees.
Every one is assuming that the new manager will be Mattingly or Girardi. I would like to see that it is Girardi.
My prediction is some thing different.
The next mangaer is going to Lou Pinella.
This is how it is going to playout.
After all the reaction to Joe’s leaving, Yanks would like to make a significant move. They will ask for permission from Cubs and they will get it, given the reaction to Pinella’s handling first ALDS pitching. Yanks will give a “B” prospect as as compensation.
Yanks will hire Pinella and Cubs will go with Girardi.
Pinella’s hiring will serve number of purposes.
1. He is a beloved Yankee and it will turn the tide from a public perception point of view.
2. It will have an impact on A-Rod’s decision. A-Rod will think twice to opt out if Pinella is the manager.
3. Torre’s blind loyalty to veterans was partly (may be even significantly) responsible for the under-performance of Yanks in the playoffs. If there is one guy who can lit fire under the bellies of some of the bums, it is Lou. Also, he has enough stature to make difficult decisions about cutting down the playing time or moving some of these veterans to different positions in the best interests of the team. It would have never happened under Torre.
4. The Torre suck-ups in the media will not have an easy time with Lou. These vultures would eat up Mattingly or Girardi alive!!!!
yikes thats a lot of money but were the yankees and RANDY levine is our president
Again, I love both Jorge and Mo, but to break the bank to resign them would be silly. Jorge just had a career year, period. If you think he’s going to put up similar numbers next year (or ever again), you’re dreaming.
Mo is still effective, but he is no longer a “dominant” closer. That is to say, he is not what Papelbon is now for Boston. Of the two (Jorge and Mo), I’d rather see them pay a bit more to keep Mo, but if he’s going to demand some absurd amount of money to stay, I think they need to let him go.
Giving lucrative, multi-year deals to players in the latter part of their careers is not typically a good move…
stupid pavano, if he gets killed, do we have to pay the contract to his family?
You try to win games, not “appease” fans. Boston traded the ever popular Nomar in 2004 and went on to win the WS. Think they really care about Nomar in Boston anymore? Note to Mo and Posada, everyone is expendable, even you too. Don’t believe me, go ask Nomar.
anotehr clown comment the yDemeaned Bernie.. Yea the 7 yr oopteen million dollar cotract was so demeaning
where do I sign up to be demeaned like that???
NEWSFLASH Bernies contract was up and the Yanks smartly realizd he could no longer play at the level he use to and offered him an incentive laden contract(sounds like a new term) and Bernie proudy passed.
NO I AM SORRY THE YANKS WERE MEANIES AND BADLY MISTREATED BERNIE AND ARE MEAN PEOPLE.
My brother lives near Bernie he is far from mistreatd, loved by millions of fans, and is a true gentleman…
YOUNG KID’S IT IS CALLED BUSINESS…..Torre is not your dad getting pushed out of his $80k job at 55 so the company can pay some younger person $65k….Torre had a choice and decided to move on and yes Randy levine is a clown but that is beside the point…….
Pete:Tthanks for responding, I actually appreciate it. However, I don’t mean to imply that the Yankees are suddenly going to cut costs, but they do have a limit, and have generally reached it. Young players are great and save $, but they also need to be signed to long term deals. The Yankees are rebuilding, we have to face it. Yes, they are rebuilding while trying to win at the same time, and Posada and Mo would really help that, but on the other hand, Posada and Mo in 2-3 years may very well be an ugly sight. The point is that there is very little to suggest either player is going to get better, and a lot to suggest they will be worse. That would be fine for two years (heck, three for Posada would be fine), but at a certain point, you have to just accept it and move on. If they want more money and money=respect and the Yanks aren’t showing that, fine, move on.
Regardless, they will resign, and if they don’t and chase the money, then I’m sorry, my loyalty is to the team not the players. I will appreciate what they have done for the Yankees but be very disappointed in them for not taking what I am sure will be a very very nice offer from the Yanks. Good luck finding a fanbase that cares as much about you boys…
I love Lou Piniella, but I don’t want him managing this team.
The vultures would eat up Lou as well if he didn’t win. They also would have carved him up like a turkey with that dumb move to save Zambrano some pitches for a Game 4 that never happened.
What every contract we give Posada is likely going to haunt us in the end. Catchers simply do not last this long (generally), and Posada has never been a great defensive catcher. Be that as it may, I think if push comes to shove, we can always put him at first base if his catching abilities become intolerable.
3 years 36 million
Mariano – well he clearly had a down year by his standards. He is still an elite reliever, but I do not think you can call him the best in the game…….until the playoffs role around. Still, you give him 2 years 25 million without thinking about it.
Arod – He simply isn’t worth 30 million. No one is.
Zack,
Bravo a coherent reasonable response…WHere did you get so smart?/Probably not from talk radio or the blogosphere.
BBFan – Interesting scenario. A trade for a manager is not unheard of, either. However, I don’t know how much that will influence ARod (as long as it’s not Buck Showalter, I don’t think he would care). Also, Lou didn’t do the greatest with young pitchers in Tampa, although, in fairness, the talent there was somewhat less than Joba, Hughes, Kennedy…Lou has done well with rookies like Theriot and Fontenot this season.
Peter,
I just have to say another great job of keeping us up to date! And also your posts from this thread and the last.
Great job! They should have given YOU more air time, though!
These two were getting every dollar they asked for, regardless of Torre’s firing. They are, by far, the best FA-eligible catcher and closer this year (though there are a couple of interesting closer possibles, like Joe Nathan), and catcher and closer are two of the toughest spots to fill. With Posada’s season and Mo’s reputation, they were going to win big this year anyway.
“stupid pavano, if he gets killed, do we have to pay the contract to his family?”
I could be wrong, but I think that insurance is paying his salary,given he is injured.
It’s kind of ridiculous in this day and age for players to get “wedded” to the idea of having only one manager for their whole careers. Mo and Jorge should realize what an unusual situation the Torre era has been, and then look around at what has gone on throughout the rest of baseball over the last 12 years. Lots of great players have had to suffer through one new manager after another, but they all deal with it and don’t make noise about bolting just because their favorite manager got booted out. There is such a thing as cutting off your nose to spite your face…
Reading through all the comments the last two days reminded me why I value and learn from a bunch of posters, do not understand/agree/share values with the vast majority of you, and do not have the patience to post.
Pete —
Are you sure you’re not projecting your own anger here? It strikes me that there is a fair amount of support for the decision, and if the split is not 50-50, one should keep in mind that that in any affair the “opposed� are most outspoken.
And “personal agenda�? Wha—? Newsflash: Randy Levine is PRESIDENT OF THE YANKEES. And while it may be fair to impugn his baseball knowledge or his politics, or his clumsiness or insensitivity, to presume his motives in this matter beyond a desire to help THE TEAM OF WHICH HE IS PRESIDENT is beneath you.
Seriously, by the reactions of some of you people on this blog you’d think Levine had bedded Joe’s wife and disemboweled his children. At WORST he made an insincere offer he knew wouldn’t be accepted in order to cover his own ass; the alternative would have been “firing� the man and facing the same wrath.
I find it utterly hilarious how many fans around here have forgotten the shenanigans and ethically dubious maneuvers that have defined this club’s management for most of its 35 years. Ummm…Howard Shapiro, anybody? For starters?? But I guess George’s foibles are forgivable because he “just wants to win.� But not Levine! Impossible!
I hope you all enjoy pulling for your new ball club next season, whoever that may be. I for one am pulling for the YANKEES!
Count – Great post!!!
Oh please. First off if 2 years $28M for Rivera and 3 years $43M for Posada, then thanks for the memories, Mo and Jorge.
You’re not worth it. Mo is past his prime and Posada probably plateaued this year, I can’t see him batting anywhere close to .338 when he’s a career .277 hitter who’s previous career high BA was .287 and he never hit .300 or higher prior to 2007.
The Yanks could counter their leaving with these moves:
Sign Doug Jones who saved 38 games for Detroit this year for a year and $6M (he made $5M this year) to be the closer.
Sign Troy Percival for a year and $3M to be his backup.
Sign Jeremy Affeldt and J.C. Romero to be the lefties.
Trade for Huston Street to set up Jones.
These five, Farnsworth, and Ohlendorf or Farnsworth make up the 2008 Yankees bullpen.
Catchers?
Re-sign Molina and sign Rod Barajas.
Sign LoDuca and Castro who combined for 20 HR and 85 RBI for the Mets this year.
Sign LoDuca and Barajas.
If Yorvit Torrealba is available, sign him and re-sign Molina.
(Arggh, posted on wrong thread)
Pete —
Are you sure you’re not projecting your own anger here? It strikes me that there is a fair amount of support for the decision, and if the split is not 50-50, one should keep in mind that that in any affair the “opposed� are most outspoken.
And “personal agenda�? Wha—? Newsflash: Randy Levine is PRESIDENT OF THE YANKEES. And while it may be fair to impugn his baseball knowledge or his politics, or his clumsiness or insensitivity, to presume his motives in this matter beyond a desire to help THE TEAM OF WHICH HE IS PRESIDENT is beneath you.
Seriously, by the reactions of some of you people on this blog you’d think Levine had bedded Joe’s wife and disemboweled his children. At WORST he made an insincere offer he knew wouldn’t be accepted in order to cover his own ass; the alternative would have been “firing� the man and facing the same wrath.
I find it utterly hilarious how many fans around here have forgotten the shenanigans and ethically dubious maneuvers that have defined this club’s management for most of its 35 years. Ummm…Howard Shapiro, anybody? For starters?? But I guess George’s foibles are forgivable because he “just wants to win.� But not Levine! Impossible!
I hope you all enjoy pulling for your new ball club next season, whoever that may be. I for one am pulling for the YANKEES!
(sorry for the double post)
The New York Yankees will be sold upon George Steinbrenners death to pay the estate taxes. The Yankee Empire is over, the Dark ages are about to set in.
If Mo and Po are gonna get paid, good. They deserve it.
I still fail to see how the ouster of Joe Torre was ‘badly mangled’ though. For the umpteenth time, their offer still would have kept him the highest paid manager in baseball, so it was fair. Pete, I mean no disrespect cause I really appreciate everything you do for us here, but the doomsday scenario that everyone in the media is painting is beyond infuriating to me and I can’t quite figure out what you guys wanted – Torre had been there for 12 years and he had to go sometime. What better time than after a failed playoff series in which he made several truly awful decisions? Sure they could have announced it sooner, but it is what it is, and they still made him a fair offer. The media is acting like they offered him a 3-month contract with Manny Acta’s salary or something.
It is very interesting to reda all these negative comments about Levine.
I believe he is taking the hits to protect the younger Steins and Cashman.
Somebody told me this along time ago, and it was one of the best pieces of advice I ever got:
No One is Irreplaceable
Seriously, Torre is gone, there’s nothing we can do about it now but remember all he accomplished and move on. If this blog is gonna turn into throwing Torre back in the face of every move a new manager makes or personnel decision that is made, I’m sorry but I just can’t take it. The negatvity and media driven projection of anger on the entire fan base is absurd. We all loved Joe. Some wanted him to stay others wanted a change. The media hates it because Joe was so good to you all. I just hope you all cut the new guy some slack and don’t eat him alive because of your anger about Joe.
OH NO! TORRE IS GONE! Hahhaha! No one cares that torre is gone! only losers who think the manager matters in baseball! It’s all about the players! Do you think the indians manager is a good? hehehe
torre is just a loser. he needs to goto the retirement home so do oldies like rivera, posada, giambi, jeter. please, go retire. the young guns are ready to take over. fans need to let go of the past.
“The media hates it because Joe was so good to you all. I just hope you all cut the new guy some slack and don’t eat him alive because of your anger about Joe.”
Don’t count on it. These are a bunch of shameless insane vultures.
The best thing that can happen to the new manager (whoever it is) is Yanks take off the gate with lot of winning to shut them up.
I still think Joba said it best: “it’s part pf the game….not my decision”.
I hope players can keep the posturing to themselves.
The next manager will have big shoes to fill, and can do without the supposed leaders of the team, expressing overt sentiment for his predecessor.
At least Petite was cool with his statement.
LOU PINIELLA? Please NO!
I can go either way on Torre. But Joe’s greatest legacy, besides the winning, is his demeanor and perception of stability that he established.
I for one don’t need a bufoonish character like Lou charging on to the field, veins bulging, kicking dirt.
Sure, I thought that was cool when I was young and Billy was doing that.
No thanks!
I am not sure that the fan base would not support a rebuild at this point.
The real fans know
1) the existing strategy has failed
2) we have aging players who will get worse
3) we have prospects who are coming up with high ceilings.
Sometimes the forest has to burn down to create light for the saplings.
Rivera and Posada are great players but their days as premier players are coming to an end. Anything more than 2 years for each of them is just silly. There are options with younger closers and catchers and we have guys who will be ready to creak in the majors in 2009 and 2010. The hardcore fan base knows this.
Don;t think for a second that the young Steins have not thought about what it would mean to shave $100 million off of the payroll. That is MORE than $100 million in their pockets bc of payroll tax. That is a LOT of money.
“Good luck finding a fanbase that cares as much about you boys…”
I’m a Yankee fan and I’ve got to tell you that if you beleive that, you and I are in the minority. A large percent of this fan base has only jumped on board post 1996 and the only thing they care about is WS titles. If they truly cared about the players, the likes of Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi and A-Rod would never have been booed at Yankee stadium. If the fan base wants to operate on a what have you done for me lately basis, why would you expect anything different than that from guys in their walk years. It works both ways.
Here’s one Yankees fan who won’t bat an eyelash if Posada walks. The memory of Bernie Williams making superstar money and “running” around CF chasing flyballs is still firmly implanted in my mind.
“Rivera? Two years and $28 million. Posada? Three years and $43. Those figures may sound outrageous, but Cuza and the Levinson have all the leverage on their side.”
these don’t sound outrageous at all.
i guarantee you they will both get more than that.
Rivera will get 3 years, $39M. Posada, 3 years $48M with an option. write it down.
hahaha…angry fanbase? where is this? everyone i know is welcoming change.
Does anybody really think that posada or rivera was going to give the Yanks a “Torre discount”? The Yanks will either sign them or they won’t. If anything Torre leaving makes them more likely to be with the Yanks because the Yanks might pay more than they otherwise would have paid. Has any player signed with the Yanks for less money because Torre was the manager?
I wanted Joe to come back, I’m sad that he didn’t accept the Yanks offer. I’m sadder that he held a press conference where he felt the need to express his frustration with the Yanks brass. For the people that felt he was being disrespecting by the Yanks, he didn’t need to say anything they were going to love him if he simply called a press conference thanked everyone for the great run and expressed his disappointment that they couldn’t work something out. When pressed about specific details I was hoping he would say “let me just say that I appreciate everything the Yanks have done, that the Yankees statements regarding our meeting are correct and you don’t have anything to add from a factual standpoint. As to how he felt, he should have just returned to the message that he was thankful and disappointed they couldn’t reach an agreement. He probably would have had to answer essentially the same question about 12 times, but once it became clear that he was going to keep giving the same answer and not air any dirty laundry, the media would give up — I have seen it play out this way many times. Unfurtunately his press conference statements serve only to feed the New York media’s need for copy and provide his naysayers with ammo to label him with negative adjectives.
Torre is a justifiably proud man that didn’t feel the Yankees brass gave him the proper respect and just couldn’t bring himself to accept what was offered. I am deeply saddened that he was made to feel this way — he definitely deserves better. Unfortunately I am also saddened that he aired his feelings so publicly. He has been so good in the past at keeping his emotions out of the media (think about some of the things that he has had to respond to publicly — most recently Sheffields ramblings, but also Wells, Lofton etc. — and how he has handled these situations) I was genuinely surprised to hear words like “insulted” coming out of his mouth.
All in all, hard to see how any real Yankee fan can view this as a happy day, regardless of who you think would be the best manager next year.
I think you pretty much have to let A-Rod walk if he choses to opt out and you give Rivera and Posada blank checks.
My point on torre getting an offer based on incentives:
I freally dont understand why it offended him. WITHOUT the incentives he would still be the highest paid manager in all of baseball. I view the incentives not as “you need to be more motivated” but as “we are willing to pay you huge money if you get us to the World Series.” In my opinion this makes plenty of sense as the last contract was made freshly after he got to the World Series. I think he might have gottten 8 million dollars if he chose to manage. He would have gotten a raise.
“Now that change is here, we’ve got to stop martyring Joe Torre and wringing our hands about what a travesty the Yanks will become. If they tank the next few years, then so be it…I lived through the Dallas Green and Stump Merrill years, I can live through another lean period. One day we’ll be back!!! In the meantime, just enjoy the youngsters (Joba, Hughes, IPK, etc.), and try to support whoever takes Torre’s place…”
Amen Dave.
sometimes i start to think that most people here were not fans before 1996.
Pete,
My one comment is that even if the Yanks end up paying more than they are currently paying to Mariano, Posada and A-Rod in 2008, they will still REDUCE their payroll.
See, they will no longer be paying $7MM to Jaret Wright (yes, Jaret Wright) and $17MM (+/-) for Clemens.
In any case, Mariano is getting $10.5MM, Posada $12MM and A-Rod about $17MM from the Yanks.
Even if you end up paying an extra $12MM in 2008 to the above 3 players, the Yanks payroll goes down about $13MM (yes, Pettitte and Abreu are also out there. Pettitte could ask for more $$$, though Abreu would be making the same as he does this year, since his option is for $16MM and he made $15.6MM in 2007 according to ESPN).
Other than a possible Johan Santana trade and signing some better relievers, I don’t see the Yanks being buyers in this FA market. Plus, they could trade away Igawa).
And as has been often pointed out, there’s a ton of money coming off the books in 2008 (Pavano, Giambi, Mussina and Farnsworth, plus possibly Pettitte and Abreu).
I too find it a bit disingenuous how the tone is being portrayed in the article. It seems to me that the opinion is split fairly evenly. Perhaps the method of his exit wasn’t the best, but it was a no win situation. They obviously really didn’t want Joe back, not without some concessions at least, he didn’t bite, they parted ways. Leave it to the media to muddy the waters further now. Most of what I’m reading through all this is pure conjecture…every newspaper columnist is having a field day…and why not, it’s their job. Yourself included Pete, you know how to stir the drink. You know that having perhaps the most popular Yankee blog out there has helped open new doors for you. So, I can’t blame you for being a little op-ed on your blog…but I do think you’re skewing things a bit.
“The best thing that can happen to the new manager (whoever it is) is Yanks take off the gate with lot of winning to shut them up.”
Yankee management set the bar this week and made it clear that winning regular season games isn’t enough so what would a fast start do? It’s not how they start but how they finish.
i cant wait for torre to manage some other team and continue to miss the playoffs year after year. its going to be funny seeing his old, senile face everyday on sportscenter getting criticized for his dumb moves. EXIT JOE TORRE ENTER SLEEPY JOE (torre without 200 million $ team)
these don’t sound outrageous at all.
i guarantee you they will both get more than that.
Rivera will get 3 years, $39M. Posada, 3 years $48M with an option. write it down.
16 million per year for a 36(?) year old catcher? That’s assinine
“Reading through all the comments the last two days reminded me why I value and learn from a bunch of posters, do not understand/agree/share values with the vast majority of you, and do not have the patience to post.”
thanks for the update!
Anyone else find Jeter’s silence odd??
I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t think Posada is back. Rivera Yes, but not Posada. I think there is going to be some team out there that offers him more years and money then the Yankees are willing to give a 36 year old catcher.
They won’t admit this but I wouldn’t be surprise if the organization values Rivera more than Posada. Especially Cashman with his rebuilding plan when he has catchers in the system already. I think they really want Rivera back 1 because he’s still a quality closer and 2 because they really would like Joba to start.
There probably is going to be a stop gap catcher until some in the system are ready.IMO. Cashman places a lot of stock on prospects.
jeter smiled everytime he hit into a DP. shows how much he cares about torre and his teammates.
Whenever Randy Levine (I hate writing his sname) makes an appearahce at the park the fans should boo him and boo him and boo him – he is an jerk and has disgraced the team much like the Dolans ruined hte Knicks.
Wow, You would think that after all the stories about how the Yankees showed so little class, and so little respect, for Joe Torre that people would get it. But they don’t
None of us knows if that 50-50 split of the fan base is correct, but assume it is. That is HUGE, people. This means the Yankees have POed a huge chunk of their customers. Of course the fans will still come out, but this was damage that simply did not need to be done. It will hurt them, in ways we cannot calculate. Too many of you assume October baseball is a given. It ain’t.
If you wanted Torre gone, good for you. Christmas or Hannukah came early for you this year. But WHO REPLACES HIM IN THAT CLUBHOUSE?
Girardi? Better get ready for those young kids arms to possibly fall off, because that is his record from Florida.
Mattingly? What happens to Donnie if the Yanks don’t make the playoffs? Try to picture the front office firing him. Talk about upset fans.
The Yanks had an opportnity to have Torre leave without this type of wound, and they blew it. I belive Curly Levine will have a target on him in the New York media now.
“16 million per year for a 36(?) year old catcher? That’s assinine”
write it down.
Posada is going to CASH IN. maybe not $16M, but i guarantee you he gets at least 3 years and close to $15M, +/- $1M.
Pudge just got his option picked up for $13M. that set the market.
Posada is much BETTER than Pudge and while they are the same age, Posada has caught 700 fewer games than Pudge so he has a lot less mileage.
of course it’s “assinine”, but that’s the market.
seriously, write it down. the Yankees are not going to get away paying him $12-13M. it will be in the $15-16M range.
Pete doesn’t really respond to blog posts anymore, but come ON. Can he really continue to paint this as Joe Torre ascending into heaven and the Yankees being all completely evil?
This is getting ridiculous. Where is the objectivity?
Those numbers don’t sound ridiculous at all. Sign them both up for those figures. The Yanks should aim to sign them for shorter deals than they ask for by overpaying on a per year basis. It’s the long term contracts that hurt the Yanks, not cost per season. Mo for 2 years $28 sounds about right and Jorge 3 years $48 sounds right as well, with an extra option year based on incentives or maybe club options for an extra year.
_Anyone else find Jeter’s silence odd??_
whaddya talk’n ’bout Willis?
I don’t think Pudge set any market…pudge also had a $3 million buyout so the question was more was pudge worth $10 million for one year. I think common sense said he was.
I disagree with Pete. I think its sad to see Torre go. I think it would be sad to see Mo and/or Posada in another uniform. That would be true whether or not Torre was manager. I think most fans realize though that some change is necessary. I think we realize that the team needs to get younger, not older. I don’t think the Yankees would get outbid by anyone on a 1 or 2 year contract for Mo or Posada but I could see other teams willing to give more years. I don’t think most fans would be that upset if the Yankees decided that wasn’t smart.
I also think a lot would be forgiven if the yankees make another big move like acquiring Johan Santana. It seems obvious that he won’t be resigning with Minnesota when his contract runs out and it seems like NY could offer what the Twins need — a CF replacement for Hunter and young pitching talent. I expect it to happen, and if it does, he’s going to make a much bigger difference than Torre, Posada or Mo would next year.
Yankees are going to have to go to 3 years for Mo.
if they don’t, he will test the market and will get 3 years. the Phillies will GLADLY give him 3 years, maybe even 4. just like they did with Gordon.
“Anyone else find Jeter’s silence odd??”
why, it’s been 12 years and the guy has yet to say anything interesting.
Those of us who have been more than happy to get to the Tournament each year and take our chances will have to re-set the bar. Since Levine stated the Yankee goal as winning the WS each year, none of us should be satisfied unless that goal is achieved. Not just 2008, but EVERY year.
To that end, I want the Yankees to spend more than they should for Rivera, Posada and A-Rod. Rivera and Posada should get more than they deserve, because the Yankees have it and need them to meet the state goal.
Give A-Rod $40M per year, who cares. It’s not costing me a penny and I want a WS title EVERY year. Period.
“I don’t think Pudge set any market…pudge also had a $3 million buyout so the question was more was pudge worth $10 million for one year. I think common sense said he was.”
that’s just my prediction. 3 years of at least $15M for Posada.
if i am wrong, i will come here and admit it.
Seriously: If Joe had that much power over the ‘team’ then perhaps it was time for him to go….I though no ONE individual was suppose to be bigger than the team?
I think it may be interesting to note that anyone who is appointed manager at this point is going to have a tough time living up to the Yankees Standard of win or else.
Oddly enough though at the end of next season the “BrainTrust” won’t be able to blame the new manager without admitting to there own screw up. That said, Brian are you remotely aware that your contract is up in 2008? This should be interesting, performance incentives anyone?
“That said, Brian are you remotely aware that your contract is up in 2008? This should be interesting, performance incentives anyone?”
even Torre said Cashman was the only one who wanted him back, so i’m not sure what your point is.
“Girardi? Better get ready for those young kids arms to possibly fall off, because that is his record from Florida.”
yeah, torre never does that to his pitchers. without the joba rules torre wouldve blown joba’s arm off just look at game 3.
At least Rivera and Posada are coming off good years. Unlike a certain classless, clueless ex-manager.
Mario and Jorge should both walk out for the shabby treatment of Joe
Without question, Cashman’s biggest tasks after the new manager is on board is the signings of A-Rod, Mo, Jorge, Jose Molina, and possibly Luis Vizcaino closely followed by the options of Pettitte and Abreu.
Forgotten by many but weighing heavy on Cashman’s mind is moving the contracts of Giambi, Mussina, and Farnsworth.
I’m confused. We don’t need these greedy old Torre boot-lickers (that helped win those 4 series so long ago) and we’re ready to enjoy the kids (no cathcer in the lot and the future closer bug-shy)but our ownership demands a world series title every year and Joe didn’t deliver so he had to go.
Attendance up or down watching the kids play .500 ball?
Mangled is accurate Pete
“The Yankees” are Randy Levine. They’ve been becoming that for awhile only most fans didn’t know it. He is not a “son,” either. The tone is set by whomever is in charge and he has set it. It is a new team. I’ll have to wait and see if I care to support it. I’ve said for a long time I hope Mariano Rivera goes to another team. The main issue isn’t that they didn’t extend his contract at a certain point in time, it’s the fact that they publicly huimiliated him by not placing a phone call to him to discuss it. As Cashman said yesterday when asked about free agents, “certain players have said they want to be Yankees for life.” Mariano of course has said this many times and it seems Cashman filed the information and went on to other duties. The coolest person on the planet is still at some point human. Oh yes, Randy Levine seems to have lots of influence on the internet as well.
_Do some research on Randy Levine and get back to me. This guy is a bigger clown than Bozo._
Peter,
I just got an IM from my good friend, Bozo. He’s offended by the comparison !
Tell it, Pete!!!
Let Mo & Posada go. They’ve been great, but are on the downside of their careers. If they have no loyalty to the Yankees, then it’s best they spend their twilight years elsewhere.