Trey Hillman an intriguing possibility
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- October
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These are interesting days in the life of Trey Hillman.
The manager of the Nippon Ham Fighters in Japan, Hillman led his team to the Pacific League title last night against Bobby Valentine and the Chiba Lotte Marines.
Meanwhile the Kansas City Royals are reportedly negotiating with him to become their next manager. It would be a good fit for Hillman, a Texas native who is a family man.
I got to know Trey when he he managed the Yankees old Class AA team in Connecticut, the Norwich Navigators. He’s a good manager and a better guy. He left the Yankees at that time knowing he would never be considered to manage the major league team. He went on to become the farm director in Texas and then left to manage in Japan, where he has been a huge success.
I’m sure Brian Cashman will reach out to him. Cashman thinks very highly of Hillman, as does Mark Newman.
I doubt he will be the manager, however. He’s still not a big enough name for the Tampa Trio. But he is somebody to keep an eye on.
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on Friday, October 19th, 2007 at 11:24 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
I thought I read that he is going to take the Royals job anyway.
Now we’re treated to lectures on respect from Scott Boras. Thanks Pete. What’s next, let me guess – hedge fund managers?
I would be happy with a Hillman hiring. Why don’t more minor league guys get a shot?
I agree Hillman is intriguing, but not a big enough name. I’m on the fence about Torre. I’m a fan, and I appreciate what he’s done. But maybe a new young guy (Girardi) can motivate these guys in the postseason. They have been so flat the last 3 seasons. I went to Game 4 of the ALDS this year, and it was hard to watch. The Yanks were never in the game. Where was the fire? What has happened to this team?
joeybagadonuts….. yeah boras a man of honor!!!!!!!!!!
I need more tissues since all my tears have flowed for poor Mr. Torre!!!!!The guy made $19 mill in just the last 3 yrs. and was treated like a king.. Again I like Torre like everyone else but how about some proportionality, this is not that outrageous and happens everyday in the REAL world.
*SHOVE-IT*
I think the Yanks created a mess by handling the situation the way they did it. And then they embarrassed themselves with that disgusting & disrespectful offer for 1 year for Torre. They could have been better of letting Torre just leave instead of offering that ridiculous offer.
If Hillman gets the Royals job, good luck to him. He may be a consideration for the Yankees next around if he ends up with the Royals job. Managing the Royals and the Yankees gives the best indication of how both halves live. The Royals usually have little hope to win and little drive in the front office while the Yankees always have a chance to win and a front office with unquestioned drive. It will be a good experience for Hillman though, can’t argue against that.
Next TIME around. I just can’t type!
Yeah I noticed no one was standing on the top of the steps, including our great captain. He was sitting there looking like the thinking man statue.
I don’t think a change and step in to a new era is necessarily a bad thing.
OK, Torre is gone: inject new theory, more energy, and youth.
OK, Rivera leaves: based on our farm and the free agent market, I doubt the Yankees really stood a chance to win it all next year anyways. They are two years out from even a moderately good bullpen.
OK, Posada leaves: we’re going to have to look for a new catcher sooner or later…might as well be now.
OK, Pettitte leaves: this is probably the REAL bummer because we will have zero veteran presence to teach the youngsters.
Look, I love all these mainstays as much as the next guy, but sooner or later you have to say goodbye.
I don’t see the Yankees hiring an MLB inexperienced guy not named Mattingly.
And to all you bozos out there who expect to win it ever year (and this includes you, Idiot Steinbrenner), wake up and smell the napalm: NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
I think the first issue of this team should be firing that bum named Randy Levine. How did he even get a job with the Yankees.
Jake – Mussina will be a good veteran presence, don’t you think? (Despite what you {probably) think about his actual pitching) Not that I want to see Andy go.
pardon the pun, but my take is that torre was the lightening-rod for what is a sea-change in thinking with the yankees. that’s the only logical explanation for what went down. like a strong cold front that passes in the night without a drop of rain or flake of snow, the yanks may have saved themselves half a billion dollars yesterday – if torre, rivera, posada, pettite, and perhaps giambi (trade) and mussina (retirement) don’t return, and a-rod goes elsewhere. the latter, my lightening rod theory. they’ve set precedent with torre: incentive-based compensation and take-it-or-leave-it.
they’re joyless and disgusting. levine is a sycophant and the sons characatures of the sons of wealthy emotionally damaged men. nonetheless they’re not entire without merit. the players wants guarantees on money that is not guaranteed to the owners (playoff renvenue). that’s not fair. also ridiculous is the notion of player’s defining network value. networks allow teams to pay the players, and are the at-risk investments of ownership, not the other way around.
hillman is the face-saving choice, buck showalter lite. he’s a legitimate “new era” guy, with whom a young potentially losing team can be rationalized in 08, and a guy who will put a good face on the brand. the others are retreads in one way or another, and will bring devastating results. girardi has turned out to be a tad-much the judas for my taste…
hank is right in one respect – that nothing lasts forever. perhaps better to end it this way, notwithstanding the lack of grace, than go the route of 1965. it may be a business decision to allow the current cast to produce elsewhere, in lieu of a more viable business model for the long term.
maybe i’m giving them too much credit, but that’s my take. it’s sad to see him go, and a transition is the theoretical better route, but that too may have its impracticalities.
What ever happened to Gene Michaels? Wasn’t he the supposed mastermind behind the 90s dynasty?
Motown,
Ya, I thought of Mussina right after I pushed “Submit.”
No, I am not too fond of his pitching of late, but he has a sound baseball mind for sure. Could be worse, but Moose figures better for the bullpen in long relief if you ask me.
On that note, Hank and Hal need to go too. Can we get someone in that office with an actual degree please? God I could probably do better and I have a degree in teaching for goodness sake.
It will probably end up being
Mananger- Girardi/Mattingly
Bench Coach- Bowa or Pena
Bobby Valentine would be my choice. Knows the NY Media, has had success here, is a god in Japan, and is amusingly hilarious(shades anyone?).
“I think the first issue of this team should be firing that bum named Randy Levine. How did he even get a job with the Yankees.”
Christina- do you know anything about Randy Levine, aside from what Pete tells you? Please. You’d probably never heard of him until yesterday.
Pete ,is their any way we could put a contract out on Levine,seriously? I know somebody!
I thought Pete made a good point yesterday — the playoffs are not a guarantee every year, and some fans (who don’t necessarily remember the 80’s) could learn that soon. I have had my issues with Torre, but the Yankees have not distinguished themselves with the way they have handled this, and it does make one wonder about the management of the team in the post-George era. There is enough money in baseball for marquee players to have options, and this could hurt the Yankees in many ways. Hopefully they can resolve the manager issue quickly, and wisely.
Global,
But wouldn’t you be worried that Valentine is too much of a “hot head” for the Yankees position?
The reason I like Girardi is because he proved he can do it in Florida (Manager of the Year is a legit award) and will undoubtedly not shy away from the Face upstairs, just as he didn’t with the Florida owner (which cost him his job because Florida is a crappy organization).
I guess Valentine’s NY experience is something to consider, but that was the Mets, not the Yankees.
Peter,
Names don’t manage teams, managers do. Why do you think the “Tampa Trio” will look solely for a name, when you don’t know anything about Hank and Hal besides 1 likes hotel and 1 like horses. Randy Levine is not an idiot, he was a key official for super-fan Rudy Giulani – Deputy Mayor, I believe and a successful attorney. Stop the nonsense, you are better than this. I get you liked Joe, but you sound like Christopher Russo lately, which is terrible.
Forget Valentine, I think the Yanks are going to pull a surprise out of their caps:
Davey Johnson.
(Just kidding.)
Yankee in Boston,
I agree. You gotta figure they have narrowed their search to three or four candidates, two of which stand atop the rest (Mattingly/Girardi).
I too fear an 80s like turn for the worse, but perhaps that is what management needs to see to light a fire under their butts. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
pete, I’m just angry and not really into bodily harm.
If,however he would do us all a favor and dropped dead Today,oh well, yankees would be better off for sure !
Ugh, with the 1980s references. We went to the World Series in 1981. That’s more than Joe did in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. Deal with it.
Pete is their a way we can get Levine on a cruise ship that goes past icebergs in the night,with a ship’s captain that’s not paying attention how close the iceberg is to the ship.
Oh wait that’s the Titanic,shoot!
“Ugh, with the 1980s references. We went to the World Series in 1981. That’s more than Joe did in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. Deal with it.”
Woah, a whole 4 years.
I forgot being in the World Series every year is an entitlement.
I’m guessing ESPN at 2pm is going to be Must See TV at Yankee Stadium and in Tampa this afternoon.
im not against firing the manager… it’s fine if the front office decided that they wanted to jettison joe and move in another direction. My real issue is with the lack of respect you show a guy who has done nothing but bring respect and winning to this ball club under his stewardship. I kind of feel like this whole thing was the old cloak and dagger technique ala killing cesear. I know if a potential boss of mine treated employees like this i’d seriously look elsewhere, dont think potential FA’s dont think the same.
And as far as the clowns saying “OH BUT HE IS A MILLIONARE HE DOESNT NEED THE MONEY” what if your boss told you that instead of making 80ooo a year next year he’d give you 54ooo with insentives? You’d be up in arms and you know it… like pete said it isnt about the money its the percentage.
Hey uhhhhh New York Media….. Ripping the Stienbrenners is so cliche’. Move past it. Joe Torre is not the Yankees. Many, many fans believe Buck Showalter would have been just as successful, without the tears. Those late nineties teams won with the same components that ALL teams win with. GREAT PITCHING AND TIMELY HITTING.
Christina and Sharp Shooter, I agree, Randy Levine is nothing but a slug. He makes my skin crawl by just looking at him…If this piece of scum is the face and voice of The Bombers, we are in for for a long bumpy ride. The last evidence of Yankee Pride just walke dout
hey rob NY, what did JOe do to merit a salary increase? Get to the playoffs. You saw how Detoit and Seattle choked it away. They lost more than the Yanks winning. Wild Card by default. You get incentive laden contracts when your commitment is in question. 21-29 start answers that question in my mind.
Billy,
What about Derek Jeter? Is he not Yankee Pride?
That was a silly comment.
And what is with all the finger pointing at Randy Levine?
Half of you don’t even know what he does. Rest assured that he isn’t making the decisions, the owners are. Levine, Cashman, etc. are merely voices in the crowd.
Pete…Do you think that with the more time that passes Donnie is less and less likely to be Torre’s Successor?
Girardi era begins with Yanks winning 11 of 13 next April and the “pride ” is back.
What, Is Torre taking the pinstripes with him?
“what if your boss told you that instead of making 80ooo a year next year he’d give you 54ooo with insentives?”
So in your scenario every other person in my position is making $25,000?
Uhh yeah Im pretty sure Cashman is more than just a voice in the crowd.
Hey bryan do you think that any manager sitting in the Yankee dugout at 21-29 (with the aweful team cashman gave him to start the season) gets them to 94 wins? I am not so sure, and i think that alone warranted him back at the same price. Even so maybe Joe was just sick of having the noose around his neck and the collective front office foot on his back the past 2 years to do it again…
choked it away….what i know is the yankees kept winning when they had to down the stretch, until the playoffs. 2004 was reason enough in my mind to not rehire the guy but you should do it in a way that shows respect for what he’s done; not put him to the curb for friday’s trash pick up.
You wanna do the same for mo and jorge? Watch who jorge catches for next year…. while we start who again?
I’m just wondering, do Cashman, Trost, Levine, Hank, and Hal have to take a pay cut as well?
I seem to remember Brian Cashman saying after the final loss in the ALDS that “the Yankees win and lose as an organization”.
If that is so, I think it’s only fair that all salaries get cut 33%. Not only Joe’s.
“And what is with all the finger pointing at Randy Levine?
Half of you don’t even know what he does. Rest assured that he isn’t making the decisions, the owners are. Levine, Cashman, etc. are merely voices in the crowd.”
Agree with you on the first part, but how do you really know the second part. All this speculation that Cashman is not in control of player development or the contract negotiations is just that, speculation.
Bryan
If you blame a 21-29 start on Torre, how can he not get credit for a 73-39 finish? That finish also came without an incentive laden contract.
doesn’t torre have a personal services contract with the yankees, following tenure as manager, that prohibits him from managing another team?
Jake
Randy Levine is just a flat out dirtbag. Whatever he’s involved in turns into a clusterf*ck.
Rob, no way Posada sniffs the year he had this year again. Yah, let him go. 36 year old catchers are not always the smartest investment. Of course he like Torre, is a “True” Yankee. So he better still be playing in pinstripes when he’s 60.
Good teams, great teams act with their minds, not hearts.
Jorge Posada’s father had some comments on a Puertorican newspaper, thought you might me interested;
“Joe is a classy person. Jorge, my son, loved him like a father. He never said to me something bad about Joe. I spoke to Jorge and he is very sad of course, he wanted Joe to comeback. Now that he is not, Jorge says he is gonna really think about whether or not to comeback to the Yankees. The same way Mariano feels. They lost a manager and a father.”
So take that for what is worth.
good teams also dont act with their wallets…
Lebron James for the Manager. He wore a yankee cap in Cleveland…HEHEHE
“Hey bryan do you think that any manager sitting in the Yankee dugout at 21-29 (with the aweful team cashman gave him to start the season) gets them to 94 wins?”
The team was far from awful. There were unexpect injuries and players performing way below their career track records. As many people expected, the unperformers reverted to their normal levels, the injured players returned, Cashman made some key and risky roster moves (bringing up Joba for one), and we got a little lucky. Those are the reasons we came back, not because Joe Torre lit some kind of imaginary fire under the players.
well said rob
well said rob
Bryan
You’re right about Posada. Offering him a huge payday at say 3 or 4 years would be a big mistake. Let him walk.
Bryan,
It’s obvious that Jorge won’t ever reach this career year level again, and that he’ll likely decline quickly in the next few years as every catcher in history not named Fisk as. Still we need to re-sign him regardless of the expense because there are NO viable options at catcher that can even match half his production.
It would be nice, like Pete mentioned, if Mr November would make some comments from his secluded beach resort with whichever actress hes holed up with this off-season. Not that he doesnt deserve to have his fun (good for him), but how about a few candid words about how the guy he calls Mr Torre was let go. I bet even Arod (nice how Manny and Ortiz hit about 650 each in the postseason) will chime in with a few words at some point.
This guy Levine could be the Yankees answer to Lucchino with the Redsox – 2 egomaniacs who make most people sick.
yea pete, love the blog and all but man, feels like you’ve been turning the screws on us fans who have hung on this blog and dropped 1000’s of comments all season! Don’t ya get it? I’m not trying to tell you how to do your job (you do it well!) But you might want to start framing up next season in a different light: crises precipitate change, from chaos emerges opportunity, all that stuff, kind of a better angle if you’re looking to prime your audience for a season full of well attended game threads.
You’ve got us all looking for bridges bro, i’m sad to see Torre leave, but its not the end, i could be very excited about next season – you’re just making me very scared. Like if i were reading your posts on some random yankee forum, i’d prob flame the crap out of you for it but hey, you’re Pete and we all trust your words and respect your objectivity – don’t take that for granted, in the end we’re all Yankee fans and we want to feel good about our team, not bad… if i want to feel bad i’ll listen to every other sportswriter in NY and around the country, you have the unique opportunity to stand out amongst a crowd of naysaying drama queens, and you’ve got enough loyal fans that you don’t need to play this doom n gloom card to get attention.
Re: Hank, Hal, Randy. Don’t like them, but this Torre thing was the first decision. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they do next – but man they are on a short leash. I think it’ll just take one more stupid, classless, brash Steinbrennerian move and they might just find a car bomb outside that Tampa office – the team has come way too far since 96 to just slip back into a dark age.
My point exactly bosco…. imo you offer the guy a 3 year deal at a price near what he asks and have the best available catcher on your team still. 90 RBI isnt something you easily replace and while he may not bat .300 again he’ll have 90rbi again next year and no catcher we get in FA is going to do that. I really wanted the yankees to find a way to get in on saltalamacchia….
if the yanks lock into declining players at big bucks long term we could be looking at a decade of losing, regardless of who the manager is. notions of a-rod hitting 50 home runs at 45 are ridiculous, posada hitting 330 with 100 rbis at 39, even rivera with 40 saves and playoff cabiber stuff at 40 might be a reach (if only due to over-exposure).
the new generation of owners and bosses are disgusting. my dad’s generation, and half a generation later, are gone and going. the new breed are, in large measure, without grace. randy levine is the poster boy for this new breed of ******* but far from the only one. these gutless antics play out every day in corporate, the cowardly many ganging up (better put by the gentleman above) on the one.
Global Warming,
I never said being to the World Series is an entitlement, you did.
I pointed out some facts. Dispute them, I dare you. Oh wait, you can’t. So I know, put words in my mouth that I never said.
There are a lot of 12 year old jerks that reference the 1980s without having lived through them. I wonder if you are one of them. I did. It’s been 1 day and that reference is already old.
I had so many thoughts om him too.
Trey Hillman – good situational manager, has the fire in him to lead a team but would Derek Jeter fall in line w/ it ?
Tony Pena – same as Hillman only difference is he is loved by that whole lockerroom not one player has said a bad thing about Tony Pena
Donnie Baseball – he is loved
Joe Girardi – reminds me of a more firey Mike Soscia
Pete:
Amusing that Levine had tried to solicit a profile out of the sports writers and was turned down. He’s quite a charming fella, no? But a profile? Was he thinking of leaving the Yankees then for greener pastures because Cashman had held onto his power? Has Cash really had his wings clipped? Is the death watch on for Cashman now?
It gets curiouser and curiouser…
“my dad’s generation, and half a generation later, are gone and going.”
Agreed. I hope we someday bring back the old guard that was responsible for the labor disputes of the past. Nothing pleases me more than a good strike and keeping salaries low through collusion.
gargoyle:
Interesting take on Randy Levine. C’mon. Did you used to work for the City?
Pete why not start a campaign to boycott the Yankees in protest to the way they disrespected Joe. Don’t go to games. Don’t buy any Yankees gear. I heard an intersting stat ,Yankees gear garners $40% of the total market, of all that’s sold in the mlb. Let’s hit them in their pockets. Money is the only way this operation will understand.I’m hoping for a mass exudus of players.If they free agents don’t leave,Get huge contracts like Giambi and stick it to the Yankees!!!Come on veterans make them pay through the nose!!!
One thing about Mattingly that some might forget.
Remember when the Yankees started going through those terrible years beginning in 1989 through 1993.
Mattingly was the one that stepped in and strarted dealing with the media in a more hands on approach – often answering the tough questions as that his manager and team mates, particularly the up and coming players had a tough time handling.
But then again he was the captain and was not afraid to stand there with 30 microphones and recorders in his face and answer the tough questions.
Hillman is taking the KC job, so he’s out. Not that I honestly ever thought he was in.
I actually think the guy who could breed the most confidence and good will could be Pena. No one hates Tony Pena and you would be happy to see him get this shot.
I think the public perception that Mattigly is inexperienced and over his head will make the difficult task of replacing Torre even more difficult. If the club loses or struggles, it’ll be because of Mattingly’s inexperience in the press and the public.
Pena, like Girardi, was also a small market manager of the year in KC. He’s an engaging guy, a hard worker and he’s tough to dislike.
Girardi, who has been hovering above in the YES booth all season, feels a bit like an opportunistic vulture if you listen to the media and some of the fans.
I would love Girardi to get the gig, but I think the mostly false perception that he hung around waiting for the old man to fail is a negative.
Pena has no negatives. He’s a minority hire who wouldn’t be hired because he was a minority. He’s a former catcher. He gets through to his players (i.e. the difference we’ve seen in Jorge since Tony came here) and he has fire. I also think he smiles a lot and is engaging.
I think he’d be a great choice and it would foster a lot of good will.
anybody think the yanks cave and bring him back?? bet he’d take 2 years guaranteed, 4MM/per, with the incentives. the problem with the incentives was the packaging – and that windbag ****** flack steinbrenner pays to do nothing should have known better than to allow what flew. all they had to say is that playoff monies are not guaranteed to ownership and in turn what amount to guaranteed bonus monies shouldn’t accrue to players and the manager. bosco – point well taken. perhaps i’m a tad the romantic.
I root for the team. That’s what a fan does. I liked Joe a lot, but you have to move on. Sharp Shooter wants to “stick it to the Yankees”. He/she is obviously not a fan.
sharp shooter is a Red Sux troll.
Michael Kay giving what he knows (lol) on the Torre situation on 1050 ESPN.
Basically, Cashman and Trost on the plane with Torre and beieved he would accept offer.
Yankee brass unanimous with their offer and really did want Torre back.
Michael Kay show will carry the presser live.
for those needing a laugh “Manny celebrates everything”:http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/manny-ramirez-r.html
Obviously Sharp Shooter is a Red Sox troll. Also an uninformed one. Yes, Yankees gear may represent 40% of the market. However, the Yankees must split that money with all of the teams. Thus, we sell 40% of the merchandise, but we only get 1/30 of that. Yeah, so not buying Yankees gear will basically have 0 impact to the team.
god bless michael kay
A link for all you working stiffs
http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/index
People seem to forget the circumstances of Joe’s coming to the Yanks in the first place. Buck Showalter was very popular at the time for taking the Yanks to the playoffs for the first time in ages, and people were generally clamoring to keep him around. He was the “boy genius” manager, if you will…
Suddenly, soon after the Yanks lost to Seattle in the ALDS Showalter was unceremoniously dumped and Torre was hired in his place. This sent shockwaves of disappointment through Yankee fandom. We were replacing the “boy genius” with some old codger who previously was known mostly for his playing career and his broadcast work, not for his stellar managing. In fact, I remember more than one “expert” at the time professing that the Yanks would return to the dark ages under Torre, saying it was the wrong move at the wrong time…
Well, Torre promptly went on to become a legend (in Yankeedom) as the Yanks ripped off four WS titles in the first five years of his tenure.
Everyone seems to forgot all this, though. Does it mean the Yanks could catch lightning in a bottle yet again when they select Torre’s successor? No, of course there are no guarantees. However, I think it’s unduly pessimistic to start burying the Yanks just because Torre is gone now.
But if they really wanted Joe back than they would have asked, “what will it take for you to come back?”
Or if he really wanted to come back he would have said this is what it will take to have me back
Murph,
Everybody knows Levine is a joke. As I said in the other thread, he was just the designated hatchet guy for this job.
I bet he won’t even be around a year from now (once the new stadium is done).
I just think the relationship between Torre and the Yankees had run its course. It was a great run for a long time. However, regardless of where you sit on the issue, at some point, its best for both parties to move on.
The Yankees are clearly transitioning and going in a different direction. Torre, for all his great traits as a manager, is a nightmare handling a bullpen and a pitching staff.
If you are an organization this invested in young pitching, is he really the right guy for the job now? Honestly, I don’t think so.
How it ended? Sure, it could have been handled better. However, when you part ways with icons in sports, its rarely clean and easy.
I think Torre handled it the right way. It was his idea to go to Tampa, look them in the eye, say no to the offer, and say goodbye. The right thing to do.
I don’t think he was disrespected nor do I think he was insulted with the offer. The offer was what it was. They were no longer interested in having him long term (more than one year) as Yankee Manager.
Times change and I think even Torre realizes that. Hopefully, this parting remains amicable and both sides get what they want in the end.
Is Mike stupid? It isn’t about not making the alcs this year. It is about not making it for the past 3 years, and completing the biggest collapse in baseball history.
**regarding Mike and the mad dog, carrying on that whoever takes over better make the ws or they are fired.
Yea if you read Joel Shermans book Birth of a Dynasty he puts alot in perspective regarding the end of the 1995 season and the offseason before 1996. Showalter got screwed big time – having spent the last several years with interim-GM Stick Michael rebuilding the system and grooming the young players while Stein was out of the picture (banned) – the FIRST year he got to the playoffs and lost to the Mariners he got the boot by the guy (Stein) that had NOTHING to do with the team that had just gotten them to the postseason for the first time in years.
If you think about that you can see how long of a leash Torre had, and i also have to agree that Buck probably would have won a WS in 96 too – maybe even with a bit more authority seeing Joes strategy that year was all Mo, all the time. Something tells me Buck may have been a little more cunning in his methods, but maybe i’m giving him too much credit?
All i know is that with Stein out of the picture, those two guys came on and quietly rebuilt the team, smoothed out all the edges, tended the farm for years, scouted out and developed guys like Jeter, Mariano, Posada & Andy – made smart veteran signings in guys like David Cone and got to October, suffered a bad beat to the M’s and got canned for it. Theres been criticism against Buck for -get this- refusing to use the rookie Mariano and opting for veteran relievers instead. Buck surely would have ‘discovered’ Mariano in 1996 just like Joe did – but he never got the chance, he was gone as manager and Stick Michael was gone as GM. Bob Watson was brought in as GM because he was a Tampa fav and the Torre signing was a total crapshoot.
I can’t imagine what it was like for Stick Michael and Buck to sit and watch their hand built baseball dynasty cruise through the late 90’s with other guys at the helm and get all the credit. When Cashman laid down the law to Stein when he was re-signed and let them know that he was going to manage the team his way and wanted little to no interference from Tampa was the best thing to happen since Stein was banned from baseball. I really hope that Hank and Hal lay off and let Cashman do his job, i trust him at the helm since he seems to have the longview in mind – building the farm, concentrating on pitching and at least trying to stay away from long term veteran contracts, but if hes at the mercy of George, Randy, Hank and Hal, i shudder to think where this organization is headed.
The Yanks should rehire Buck Showalter who should’ve never been fired after 1995 to begin with. Showalter has unfinished business. NONE of the candidates listed -Mattingly, Girardi, Bowa, Pena, Hillman, or Valentine- come close to being as qualified as Showalter is to manage the Yankees. Buck got it done here with ALOT less than what Torre had to work with. By “got it done” I mean he helped the Yanks return to respectability. I know, no World Series championships under Showalter but I think it’s safe to say the Yanks would’ve won at least one or two World Series had he remained the manager after 1996 in lieu of the solid job he did for the Yanks 1992-95. Forget what he did with Texas, that team was D.O.A. or I should say D.O.B.A. (Dead On Buck’s Arrival.)
It’s nice that Hillman is a very good manager in Japan, but M.L.B. isn’t Japan and the Yanks are not the Nippon Ham Fighters. It is literally a whole different ballgame here.
He has less M.L.B. experience coaching or managing than Mattingly which is none. Also he has to be a one-year lame duck manager cuz I don’t see him getting more than a year and a fraction of Torre’s offer. I don’t see him getting a vested option like Torre was offered. How could you give this nobody relative to Torre at least two years after offering Torre one year with a vested option? That’s a real slap in the face to Torre.
Mattingly has ZERO experience managing an M.L.B. team. Girardi has only one year of experience managing an M.L.B. team and he might as well managed a team of Martians compared to who he’ll take on next year. Pena was fired by Kansas City, Bowa by Philly, they’re retreads. They have even less of a resume than Torre has before Torre was hired by the Yanks. At least Torre managed a postseason team (1982 Atlanta Braves). There are reasons why Valentine was fired by the Mets, wasn’t hired by an M.L.B. team after that, and is managing in Japan, I don’t want to find out those reasons
with him in Yankee pinstripes.
Again, Showalter didn’t deserve to be fired because he did an excellent job as Yankees manager.
Dog is stupid if he thinks it’s that important who the manager is in baseball. If Yankee haters think this team won’t make the playoffs next year than they are as stupid as they are. If that makes sense. Anyway this isn’t the NFL where a bad head coach can drag a good team personnel wise down. In baseball if you field a good team in all the right places defense,good line-up and good pitching YOU WIN.
They love Torre so much that they can’t be objective about the situation. For them the standards have changed. For the longest time it was get to the WS now it’s okay if you just make the playoffs. They know Torre the past 4 years haven’t made the WS because of that they have lessened expectations.
Let’s see how Joe does with his next team… I’m sure we’ll all be curious to see how he does, right?! That should help us to put into better perspective exactly how much impact his managing had on the Yanks’ success…
Of course, I’m also curious to see which team(s) go after him now…
Joe isn’t going to go to a contender. He might get a job with a team like the Pirates who have a payroll only a few million more than he made over the last 3 years. He also won’t get anywhere near the 5million the yankees offered him.
If Joe wants to ruin the legacy he received while managing the Yankees than he will go and manage them. If he wants to keep his hall of fame status he will retire.
all that being said –
1 – no one thinks of revenue and if the Yankees don’t field a team that is at least percieved to be a favorite, they’re gonna take a huge hit in attendance, licensing and viewership. If anyone thinks the Yanks are gonna be able to endure a couple years of mediocre teams, i think you’re crazy – they need to keep their organization in the black, and they know they have to be competitive to be interesting and keep their fanbase. I don’t see the front office fielding a team of uninspiring unknowns, so big moves will be made – i just hope they’re smart, the Yankees will still be a force to be reckoned with out of spring training – they simply can’t afford not to be.
2 – i hate the word crapshoot. i read it so damn much regarding the 5 game ALDS i find myself using it now, but screw that, its dumb. no more crapshoots!
Charlie,
Yes I have heard about Levine before today. Along with the fact I know alot about the bum Lonn Trost also and I cant stand him as well. I know why Levine was hired and i know for a fact Levine never really liked Torre. All in all, the way they handled Torre was horrible and it was interesting to see the Yankees become to money conscious being they have thrown away so much money just in the past 2 years.
Good luck to the next Yankees manager who is going to have to win more then 94 games and win the World Series.
jax the funny thing is when someone brought that up to them earlier in the week in that they have a special affinity for Torre because he appears on their show weekly. Mike said oh that has nothing to do with it we will have the next manager on just like we did Joe. Well guess what that may not be the case. That deal is a sperate deal that is done and has nothing to do with the Yankees. You think if Jor Girardi who is friends with Michael Kay andalready has a weekly segment on his show is going to go and do MMD
I wonder if they will look for the players imput into the next manager?
If anyone is heaping handfuls of dirt on an open Yankee grave today it should not be due to Joe Torre’s departure alone. Instead these would be reasons to start filling in the grave into which the organization took one giant leap yesterday:
1) Posada, Mo, Andy Pettitte and A-Rod depart.
2) The marginalizing of Brian Cashman after he was given control and – - putting aside Ke Igawa – - after he made the Yankees strong for years to come by emphasizing pitching in the draft and then drafting some dandy arms.
3) The installation of Randy Levine as President of More Than We Realized with his impressive resume: graduate of the William Tecumseh Sherman University’s Rudy Giuliani School of Conflict Resolution. (Randy also holds the Giuliani School’s Al Haig Chair on Institutional Succession).
4) The snarling presence of the two headed-dog “HankHal.”
Ask yourself whether the new leadership is above doing this: being desperate to retain A-Rod, do they ask him his preference for which potential new manager he would like to play and factor that heavily into their decision?
Either way, prepare to enter the dark side. Who will be our Mr. Roberts? Who will be our Cool Hand Luke or our Randle Patrick McMurphy? Who will be our Luke Skywalker? Is “Jeter” really a derivation of Jedi? We’ll see…
Does Levine have a good relationship with Cashman? If he does I think Cashman’s job is safe. From everything I’ve read Hank and Hal are Cashman’s fans. But if Levine isn’t it might be a problem around this time next year when Cashman’s contract is up.
i find it hilarious how everyone has now adopted the “Joe has gotten them to the postseason every year, you can’t control what happens in a short series” memo in support of Joe, yet the same people wanted A-Rod gone after last year because they haven’t won a world series with him (but still have made the playoffs every year).
For those of you who still insist that ESPN is vehemently anti-Yankees, please note the hour-long special devoted to him before his press conference this afternoon.
Would they do this for Terry Francona? I don’t think so.
SJ:
I’m with you. Levine has until the Stadium is finished and then the two headed dog HankHal can pick their own day-to-day chief operating officer. Randy is looking to the horizon, going to leverage himself higher at a larger corporation with his latest resume entry: “I Got the New Yankee Stadium Built.”
There will be a season next year and the Yankees need to be ready, come what may.
Giuseppe – all about the money dude. ESPN can hate the Yankees and still feast on superior rating numbers they get from the NY market when it comes to a funeral pyre for Joe Torres career. That one hour special will probably get more in the Nielson ratings for ESPN than any of the NLCS games got for TBS!
“If anyone thinks the Yanks are gonna be able to endure a couple years of mediocre teams, i think you’re crazy”
why, what will happen? the Yankees will fold? seriously, what will happen?
i can GUARANTEE you that the yankees will sell out every single game in 2009 no matter how good or bad they are in 2008.
give me a break, every single team in every professional sport, including the yankees, have “endured” a few years of mediocre teams.
it’s almost as if people have memories that can’t even remember the Red Sox finishing in third place LAST year and are now 2 games from the world series.
the Mets finished last for like 3 years in a row just 2-3 years ago.
Levine likes those that like Levine. Anyone else he considers a threat as long as Levine wants to stay at 161st and River Avenue. Believe me, that’s the way these guys think. Cashman is a threat to Levine because Levine knows nothing about baseball and hasn’t been with the Yankees since he was 5 years old like Cashman. Being GM with final say on baseball matters gives too many chances for Cashman to impress the Boss(es) with no way for Levine to get credit. If Levine is being given more latitude, Cashman will be elbowed aside and will need to clear things, consult a lot more and take idiotic baseball advice from non-baseball guys named Levine and HankHal.
Exactly, Rusty. That is why all the “ESPN is anti-Yankees” stuff is ludicrous.
The only thing they care about is ratings, which is why the Yanks are covered more than any team in baseball.
Um, EdWhitson, how do you manage to keep coming back here? You are waaaaaaaay too logical and calm for this comments section. Don’t you know that the Yankees screwed over Torre! That Randy Levine should have a contract put out on him! And we should all march to the Stadium with torches and burn it down!
This just gives the overly emotional Pete something else to grumble about. He’s always after someone — there’s always some grievance he has to air. Now they’ve canned his chummy old Uncle Joe and he’s going to blow fiery breath till spring training and beyond. I picture Pete in a Shakespearean costume, on stage, falling to one knee and darkly murmuring, “Damn you, Levine! Damn you and your evil CURLS!”
And the rest of the fans will continue to wail like it’s the end of the world.
murphydog-
i know you think highly of cashman and his long range plans to get younger with financial flexibility . what’s your take on what control cashman now has over implementing his plan. i’m placing his control at maybe a 25%, down from the 100% he had when the season started.
it seems like he’s going to have to run everything through the same committee that we just saw with torre. this can’t be what cashman wants. running a team by consensus seems a sure fire way to slow everything down. with all the decisions that need to be made, it looks like a mess for cashman to me. having only a one year contract doesn’t help him when he’s trying to implement a long range plan.
Royals are holding a press conference on Monday to announce Hillman’s hiring.
Murph,
I say this with no disrespect to Joe Torre but, the early legacy of Hank and Hal Steinbrenner will come from the upcoming negotiations with the players.
If they re-sign the players they want back (Rivera, Posada, Arod) and Andy agrees to come back next year, I don’t think the issue of Joe Torre will be that big a deal.
The team would still be a very good team and they won’t hire some dolt as manager. They will get somebody solid.
If there is a mass player departure, that’s when things will get ugly.
From a player perspective, you have to think they are sitting in the catbird seat right now. As sensitive to PR as the Yankees are, you have to believe they are going to be very aggressive and pay these guys big money to come back.
In a way, Torre’s departure probably made Mo and Jorge in particular a few extra bucks yesterday because I can’t see these guys being dumb enough to botch those negotiations.
There are about 140 chairs all filled, 20 news cameras etc.
randy1:
As I turn to watch the press conference begin in just a minute….
Guys like Levine believe they are world class managers who need to know nothing about the business they are in in order to be useful. I think Cash has had his wings clipped, but who knows yet. Would he walk, like Joe, if things get stupid? I would say based on his threat to do so two or three years ago if he didn’t get control, yes, he would.
Everyone is shouting in my office, I can’t hear the darn radio!! UGH!!
Randy,
Cashman wanted Joe out as much as anybody in the organization.
Their relationship took some big hits this year involving several issues, most notably pitching.
He still has complete autonomy over baseball decisions. They didn’t stop him from spending a ton of money to sign their draft picks this year or to add more scouts to the international scouting department.
On choosing the manager? That’s not going to be his call, nor would it ever be. George Steinbrenner has chosen EVERY manager since he took over the Yankees. I suspect somebody named “Steinbrenner” will have the final call on the manager.
Cashman will do the legwork but a Steinbrenner will make the final call.
Chris Don’t ever curse me by calling me a Red sux fan!
Not for nothin would a red sux even care about this,issue
they’re probably happy.Yankees kicked their buts under Torre’s coaching. If you think I’m a troll that’s your call dude !
Hmmm – i’m not saying they’re gonna fold or anything like that. I’m saying its a business and business owners (especially Steinbrenners) are going to make the decisions they need to make in order to not LOSE money, the Redsox came in third last year not because they had a mediocre season, it was because we handed them their asses in a 5 game series late in the season and single handedly put them in third place, its not like they were floundering all year with a bunch of random uninspiring position players.
And you’re comparing the Yankee organization to the Mets organization? The Mets are the loveable losers, while they have a fanbase who wants to win – they also don’t take winning for granted, they have a tradition of losing seasons, where as the Yankees have a tradition of winning seasons with fans who expect such. Thats no diss on Mets fans btw, but they don’t have the same expectations from their ballclub.
Hell – i’ll enjoy it, the majority of the Yankees income comes from bandwagon type fans who only hang around when they’re winning and i’d gladly shed those types so i didn’t have to endure the stereotypical accusations from the rest of the sports world (fat chance!).
If i agree with you on anything its that no matter how bad 08 turns out, if they can compete in 09 they will break another attendence record – its just one season. But with the investments made in the new stadium, re-signing our FA’s and retaining our ability to sign high profile draft picks, i doubt they can endure a ‘dark age’ – from a business perspective. No, the Yankees won’t fold, but they probably won’t retain their ability to do business at the level that they have been for the past 10 years, and thats got to be on the minds of everyone at the top.
Sounds like Joe is already crying.
Is Joe crying? I’m listening on the radio and it sounds like he’s tearing up
hmmm-
i’m not so sure that the yankees will continue to sell out if arod, posada, pettitte and rivera move on and a series of bad decisions by an incompetent ownership cause the team to miss the playoffs in 2008. toronto , baltimore, and cleveland once sold out before bad ownership sabataged fans of those cities.
i do agree attendance won’t drop off overnight, but the red sox ownership was able to regroup after not making the playoffs by decisively changing course and spending a ridiculous amount of money to get to the playoffs this year.
had they missed the playoffs for two years in a row, it might have been a different story with attendance at fenway. the yankees do not have a unified ownership like the red sox have so i don’t expect them being able to right the ship as easily when things go wrong. i’m obviously not optimistic about the stewardship of this ownership.
he took the royals job (hillman)
at work, can’t listen to the press conference can someone please summarize!!!
beavis X2
Please
I can’t wait for Peter’s audio! I want to hear the press conference!!
Can’t ask to go out any classier. Joe is handling this precisely the right way.
Randy Levine, you are on the clock. You better hope this doesn’t blow up in your face and you are the next guy who will get chopped by the Steinbrenners.
If this doesn’t work out, they sure as hell aren’t going to blame themselves. lol
Many people don’t like to deal with change and get comfortable with the same thing year in and year out. Twelve years is a long time to manage in the big leagues especially with the Yankees who set the bar high for successful seasons.
The face of this team is changing and it’s tough to think that Joe Torre would have seen service as the Yankee manager beyong 2009 even if the circumstances were as favorable as he could ask for.
Joe seems very much at peace with this whole thing. I think we as fans should take his lead
You can listen on wfan.com
They say there is no crying in baseball.
But I am borderline bawling right now.
Thanked Steinbrenner for allowing him to manage his club for 12 years. Cash asked him on the way down if he was going to accept or to say good-bye. Told Cash he didn’t know. Said $5 million is a lot of money so it was more about the years and being insulted that they felt he needed to be incentivized. Thanked players and staff as well as Brian Cashman for his support when they started slow this year.
Wow — Joe is really surprising me here. He is tossing the Yankees under the boss — incentives were an insult, pay cut was hard to take. Pretty much reciting the headlines of the supportive New York media. He basically admitted that no other team would pay him what the Yankees offered, but its clear to me his pride wouldn’t allow him to accept a one year contract with a pay cut. It seems like in the end the Yanks didn’t show him the love he thought he deserved.
The new stadium will sell itself out for the first 2 years. But I’m not one who believes that the yanks are on a downhill slide. I like Torre and I’m sorry to see him go, but it’s not worth all the drama that’s going on right now. The yanks MAY struggle a bit next year with a young staff (Joba, Hughes and probably Kennedy at some point), but getting those guys experience will just make them and the team stronger in 2009.
Jesus Christ, this is really hard to watch. It just reaffirms that..
*There will never be another Joe Torre.*
Who’s the one person in that room that had his back? Cashman?
Even though that sounds really classy to me, i guess i just feel theres no perspective, i mean, can he really look himself in the mirror and believe that its right for the organization to bring him back for another 5 years? And if he didn’t want 5, what was enough? 2 years? 3? What was so backbreaking about the 1 year deal with incentives? I understand hes got pride and all but its not like an insane decision – it makes alot of sense for a team who is going to be going through a huge turnover in talent over the next couple years. I dunno, i love Joe and all, but i think hes taking a somewhat logical business decision and making it very personal. If you remove all the marquee names and the NY stage, no one would think twice about this deal being a bad one, but i guess being ‘more than a ballclub’ and having 26 championships sorta raises the bar a bit, its too bad.
i’m so lost about all this…ugh.
can someone please summarize what he’s saying!!! we’re not allowed to listen to audio at work
Ouch! A direct question about how he feels about Levine. Boy, he avoided that one like a pothole. Said he doesn’t deal with Levine, only with Cashman.
lol I love how he handled the Randy Levine question
“i’m not so sure that the yankees will continue to sell out if arod, posada, pettitte and rivera move on and a series of bad decisions by an incompetent ownership cause the team to miss the playoffs in 2008. toronto , baltimore, and cleveland once sold out before bad ownership sabataged fans of those cities.”
randy, i agree, but i was specifically referring to the new Yankee stadium in 2009.
they will have no problems selling tickets in 2009.
As i’ve said before it wasn’t about the money. Sounds ilke if he was offered 2-10 he would have taken it.
Crap – the FAN cut out online. Too many listeners probably…
He’s gonna be back next year. Every time a candidate floats, you’re gonna hear the media and fans rip him and compare him to Joe. It’ll be too much and they’ll grovel back to Joe. End of November. Mark it. Just tossed Levine under the bus. That guy makes my skin crawl; just comes off as scum. Joe won’t close the door though, and if the Yankees had someone who they thought could fill his shoes, they’d have named him already or you’d know who it will be.
*torre just tossed levine under the bus.
Beavis,
There’ll probably be a transcript at espn.com and video at mlb.com (unless Steinbrenner pulls it, lol)
But Torre is being very gracious and alternating between jokes and choking up.
He’s also contradicting himself and sending mixed signals. But I think that’s because he’s trying to say the right things even though he feels differently.
try 1050espn.com
they should have it up too.
thank you mel!
“Who’s the one person in that room that had his back? Cashman?”
seems like it.
Pete asking
heard from several players, won’t mention who.
would he ever want to manage again, depends on the job.
PETE!!!!!
Lay off the Twinkies!!!
More chins than a Chinese Phonebook!
Sharp Shooter
Your statement that no Red Sox fan would even be interested in this issue is not accurate. I’m obviously a sox fan, but also a baseball fan in general. I think Joe Torre was a class act in New York and so I am interested in what he has to say and where he will end up.
hmmm,
I don’t blame Cashman for not throwing himself in front of Torre’s bullet. Anyone would do the same thing, especially in a time of transition.
Anyone who thinks not re-signing (note he wasn’t “fired” because his contract WAS UP) a manager who’s as egregiously horrific at his job as Joe Torre is is a sign of bad upper level management, you’re high as a damn kite.
He’s very bad at bullpen management and HORRIBLE at MANAGING YOUNG PLAYERS. The kind we need to succeed. Maybe he had that skill once upon a time, but tell me what youngsters were brought along in the decade between Jeter/Pettitte and Wang/Cano?
This is making me sick. I cant stand to watch this guy get credit when the real credit belongs to the organization for bringing in the players and the player for winning. This guy was just along for the ride and yet because everyone hates the Yankees the mdeia would rather give credit to the one person who was least responsible and suck up to him rather than give the real people who deserve credit.
Thanks, Jennifer. Got it back.
Wow, not prepared to comment on his feelings about the Yankees and him doing anything ceremonial like throwing out the first pitch at the new stadium kind of thing.
No problem.
Torre should get down and his knees and thank God and George that he was manager of the Yankees during those 4 World Series because this guy would be a loser if not for the Yanks.
Question: Some people who have been manager have left bitter. Would you like to come back to the new Stadium, throw out the first pitch, etc.?
Torre: I am not ready to answer that question.
Wow! Regardless of how you feel about whether he should come back or not, there really isn’t any reason for this parting to be bitter. You really hope the Yankees mend fences here.
The guy did too much for the franchise to make this a bitter parting. You hope it doesn’t stay that way because clearly, there is some bitterness right now.
Tampa Yankee,
Really, chill out. The only person who is a “loser” are people calling Joe Torre a loser.
Listen to the guy, you may actually learn something about being an adult.
The guy is not a loser, regardless of how he handles pitchers or any of that other stuff.
The guy had a 12 year run as manager as successful as anybody who has ever been in the game.
You should only hope you have that kind of success in your life.
I was one who wanted a change and, in the long run, think its best for all parties.
But, the guy is NOT a loser. Not even close.
It’s all up to Torre whether or not to make this a bitter parting. He’s already started the bitter train by feeling ‘disrespected’ when given the chance to continue being the highest-paid manager in the game.
Just as much as the Yankees ‘owe’ him, he ‘owes’ the Yankees ten times as much. Him not agreeing to a ‘Joe Torre’ day is asinine and extremely disrespectful. It’s an example of a guy thinking he is above the game, and above the team that gave him every single opportunity to succeed, not to mention over $70 million.
SJ44,
Torre “says” he’s at peace with his decision. And time will heal some of the wounds…as long as Yankee brass don’t shoot any arrows back at Torre.
He’ll probably take his cue from Yogi who was treated badly and still can’t stay away. Of course Yogi actually played for the Yankees, but I’m sure that Joe feels he’s a part of the Yankee family.
I don’t really care if he’s bitter or if he ever comes back to Yankee Stadium. If that’s how he feels then that’s how he feels. We have to move on.
SJ44,
I think if you were hung out to dry the last week they way he had been, you might have some bitter feelings too.
There is no bigger Yankee than Yogi Berra and he was pretty upset for a long time after being treated they way he was during his managerial stint in 1985.
At least I know it’s insulting to be offered double what anyone else with my position makes for a year. I’ll have to use that one during my next review.
The Yankees won’t take any parting shots on Torre. They know how much he is respected and liked by the fans, media and players.
does anyone look worse today than randy levin?
i think the best way to get some fans back would be to throw him in the hudson
I am not questioning whether he has the right to be bitter.
Read the post again. I hope its not a long lasting thing because the guy has done too much good for this organization for there to be long lasting bad feelings.
That’s where I was going with the post.
He was class all the way. The anti- Billy Martin.
Next year everyone should go to YS with fire Randy Levine t-shirts.
I never knew he even had a son
“Next year everyone should go to YS with fire Randy Levine t-shirts.”
Excellent idea, Jennifer!
I’m at work and can’t watch or listen. What were Joe’s comments when he was asked about his future plans? And what did he say when he was asked about the next manager? Did he endorse anybody? Thanks in advance guys. I am almost glad I’m at work, I’d be crying watching this. Joe, you are and were class all the way. Thanks for the memories, I will treasure them always.
He said he would manage another team for less money. Said it wasn’t about money.
Anybody thinking Torre does not have a right to feel insulted is obviously not watching the press conference.
It’s not about the money.
Other than being the guy that explained the offer to the media, what exactly did Randy Levine do?
IMHO Joe is coming across very poorly. Sure he reigned over a great period in Yankee history and for that many will love him unconditionally. Nevertheless he is coming across as very selfish — almost like he is more important than the Yankees.
Didn’t want to endorce anyone, to “hurt” them.
Said he would tell players to do what is best for their family, that he wouldn’t be there forever.
Guys! He didn’t say no, he said he’s not prepared to comment on that. He’s still hurt, not bitter.
I read the post just fine, SJ.
You said there shouldn’t be any reason for his bitterness.
Easy for you to say because you weren’t the guy hung out to dry.
If they didn’t want him back, that’s fine. Do it with respect for the man instead of letting him twist in the wind for a week.
“Nevertheless he is coming across as very selfish—almost like he is more important than the Yankees.”
I agree. I think Mariano is coming off in a similar way in the media with his complaining that the Yankees didn’t want to negotiate until the end of the season. These guys are a lot more full of themselves than I thought.
BPT – please elaborate. i don’t follow that he is acting ‘very selfish’
“He said he would manage another team for less money”
I had a feeling it wasn’t about the money. But it scares me that he seems so interested in managing elsewhere. I DON’T want Mo to follow him. If we had a new closer I would start turning off the tv after the top of the 9th.
Nice skirt around on the Steinbrenner health issue when asked how he seemed he said he was the same as he had been the past couple of times he had seem and meet with him. That of course doesnt answer the question lol.
I don’t either, I think Joe is coming off with class and dignaty. Randy Levine should take note.
bpt – joe doesn’t work for the yankees anymore. he doesn’t have to do this press conference, he is here because everyone of the fans is curious how the whole thing ended. He is also getting a million questions from everynewspaper/media outlet in the northeast. how could he answer these questions without talking about himself?!
“Guys! He didn’t say no, he said he’s not prepared to comment on that. He’s still hurt, not bitter.”
Yeah let’s not overreact here. Give him time to let the initial shock wear off before decrying him as bitter. What if any of us left the job we’d loved for 12 years? Would we be on TV announcing our appearance at the next company BBQ? I know I wouldn’t…
Jennifer: I am all over that tshirt idea. Sell them outside on opening day.
Hung out to dry? Twisting in the wind? Did you want the Yankee brass to be meeting and talking about whether or not they wanted to keep Torre DURING the Division Series? And, yes it was 10 days later. Was it supposed to be a 15-minute conference call held the day after they were eliminated? It’s great that the new Steins are consensus builders – but consensus takes some time!
If Mo would rather play for Joe Torre than the Yankees then let him go.
Joe won’t clean out his office, sending an assistant.
BBB,
Do you really think that Mo will follow Torre? Or do you think that he’ll factor in wanting to retire as a Yankee?
I love Mo, but they didn’t deal with any of the free agents in spring training. His position on that irritates me.
What is the issue with Randy Levine?
B – I agree that Mariano doesn’t come off positively if he really said the Yanks are now “just one of 30 teams.” Nothing else about the Yanks matters but Torre? Granted, it’s probably just negotiating bluster, but I don’t like how it sounds as a fan who spends an irrational amount of time following the team.
pretty appropriate question from klapisch to end it.
‘do you feel appreciated from george for all your work?’
‘…i wish he could drink it in a little more’
i’m summarizing, but it is sad that george is so narrow minded and only cares about winning.
to be able to express himself so articulately and handle the delicate questions so deftly under this kind of spotlight shows the character and strength of joe torre. he clearly doesn’t choke under pressure.
the yankees are going to miss him.
Andrea I’ll contact the head bleacher creature, he makes shirts.
if they didn’t end that press conference, it would have gone on for another 3 hours.
Torre will be on with Fatso and Fruit Loops at 4:30
Randy Levine seems to be getting fingered for a lot of what happened. There were no reports that it was he and a room full of mannequins that made decisions on Joe Torre.
B,
Don’t know the specifics, but they have a history. Probably Levine was not one of his supporters during his multiple contract negotions over the years.
SJ44 has posted about Levine somewhere in the past few posts.
Mo needs to realize that the Yankees normally never sign extentions before the old contract is up. The times that they did for him they were going against their rules. He should grow up and stop acting like a baby.
_Hung out to dry? Twisting in the wind? Did you want the Yankee brass to be meeting and talking about whether or not they wanted to keep Torre DURING the Division Series? And, yes it was 10 days later. Was it supposed to be a 15-minute conference call held the day after they were eliminated? It’s great that the new Steins are consensus builders – but consensus takes some time!_
Their season ended on October 8th and didn’t hold a single meeting to discuss the matter until Oct 15th.
They have every right to fire him, but he didn’t deserve that because it seems like they had already decided that he wasn’t coming back a week ago.
BBB: this never would have happened if he let T. Clip and Matty DeSalvo pitch, right?
…..or not….
mel,
You don’t know the specifcs, just that he may have had “issues” with him in past negotiations? Seems a little ridiculous that everyone here is targeting a guy that no one seems to know much about.
Well said Randy.
I never really got the fan hatred toward Torre. I believe its time for a change but, it doesn’t have to filled with hatred or smart ass remarks.
Relationships end. After 12 years, which is a LONG time in Yankeeland, its time.
Its also why I never buy into the “World Series or Bust” philosophy. If that’s the case, then you will fire a manager every year you don’t win the WS, which is nuts.
I just think this thing could have been handled better. Put it another way, when you listen to Joe Torre, why wouldn’t you want him to remain in the organization in some capacity?
Do you not think he has represented this organization well the past 12 years?
My point is, there is a way to handle parting ways and there is a way not to handle it. IMO, the Yankees could have handled this in a better way.
For everything he has done, he deserves to still be employed by the Yankees. Not as the manager but, in a front office capacity.
mike and dog were ROASTING levin earlier today. they think that because randy came on the scene in 00 he is as much to blame for the losing. he was only around for 1 championship.
levin has always hated torre, and if joe made that clear when someone asked him what he thought of only randy levin. joe said, ‘i work with brian. i talk with the gm and that’s it.’
Giuseppe Franco,
I think the meetings weren’t held until October 15th because the new roles for Hank, Hal, and Lopez were still being defined. The chain of command had to be established before they could make a Torre decision.
What’s the matter? The commenters are too narrowminded to discuss the possibility of Buck Showalter managing the Yanks again? Unlike most of you, I saw him manage the Yanks and he did a fine job. He got a raw deal.
Take your heads out of your collective ass discussing Yankee player figureheads with little to no experience managing an M.L.B. team (Girardi, Matin), nobodies (Hillman), and retreads (Bowa, Pena) and start talking about guys with concrete experience.
B,
Can’t help you with your frustration, Bud. Ask SJ44 or e-mail Pete if it really bothers you.
_I think the meetings weren’t held until October 15th because the new roles for Hank, Hal, and Lopez were still being defined. The chain of command had to be established before they could make a Torre decision._
Um, I don’t think so. It took two days to make the decision last year.
Steinbrenner gave him the ultimatum before Game 3, so they had pretty much already decided that he wasn’t coming back 12 days ago if he didn’t win the series.
The door is still open, believe it or not.
Levine should go back to dealing with the new stadium and stay out of baseball decisions. Hal and Hank have got to step in here.
I bet Joe gets another offer tonight, for $6 million x 2 with a promise to retire after 2009. Levine has to give a public press conference to announce it.
The drama continues.
here is a question Torre said he wanted a term which usually means more than 2 years. if you were the Yankees would you have given him more than 2. IMHO no way.
haha Bowa is a retred but Buck isn’t? Too FUNNY!
If you want Alex to leave go get Buck.
Jennifer: I know. We lamented over missing Bob Sheppard together at the last regular home game. Nice guy.
Levine has no business being the public face of this franchise. His heavy involvement with the new stadium is the reason I’m certain it will be a huge disappointment.
Now that Trey Hillman has been hired by KC, what other mng experienced mng night replaced Torre, Girardi? He is too impersonl plus his handling of young pitchers here in Florida was questionable.
Elaboration on “very selfish”
Imagine you gave someone a chance that had a managerial record 100 games under .500 to manage a team that had made the playoffs the year before. Imagine that you spent close to twice as much on personnel as anyone else to give him the chance to win. Imagine that after great success you paid him more than any other manager in baseball. Imagine that after he presides over a team that blows a 3-0 lead to your most hated rival that you show your confidence in him by rewarding him with another contract that pays him more than twice what anyone else managing makes. Imagine that after he gets knocked out of the playoffs in the first round in each of the three years you paid him more than twice as much as the next highest paid manager you offer him a new contract with a lower base pay (but still comfortably more than any other manager makes) but the possibility of making even more money than he made under the old contract if he makes the World Series (which he has done in half the years he has managed the Yankees). Now imagine that this manager’s response is to hold a press conference to announce to the world how he was insulted by your offer and of course he wouldn’t expect another team to pay him eve n as much as your insultingly low offer. Seems kind of selfish to me.
It just seems silly to pretend that what you would make doing the same thing for another employer is irrelevant to how much you should get paid in your current job. A person that was looking at the situation objectively (i.e. not selfishly) would interpret a contract offer that greatly exceeds what you could make elsewhere and was higher than what anyone in a similar position made as a message that the person making the offer thought you were the best. Not sure how you can realistically feel insulted.
I got the strong impression that in the end in his opinion his boss didn’t pay appropriate homage to his greatness so he took his plane home, read his adulatory press and publicly voiced his dissatisfaction with how he was treated. I expect this from Gary Sheffield (and call him selfish when he whines about how he was treated by Torre), honestly I thought Torre was better than that.
Not true. The organizational chain was already in place. The meetings weren’t set because a couple of the people who were going to be in Tampa (not involving Torre) had other obligations that kept them away for a few days and they were coming up with this “plan” for Torre.
Randy Levine? He has been a longtime Anti-Torre guy in the front office. He was more Anti-Torre than anybody associated with the Yankees.
Even George has more positive things to say about Torre than Levine.
Levine has certain “go to” guys in the media he talks to when its time to criticize Torre. Torre knows this so, when things come out, he knows the source.
The guy is just bad news. Probably the most disliked person in the Yankee organization.
Here is another example of Randy Levine’s management skills. Last off-season, he fired a 34 year employee (lower level) of the Yankees, a year before he was going to retire, to hire a friend of his. The guy lived for the Yankees and was very popular with everybody in the organization.
Levine just canned him so no real reason. Some made up reason that was proven to be false. Broke the guy’s heart needlessly.
Ah, just gotta say: It’s good to see you on ESPN, Pete.
Kruk is ranting about how if they don’t bring Mattingly back, the core is going to run away and they’ll have to spend big bucks to bring in stars to replace them.
I know it’s his job to prognosticate and all that, but I can’t buy into his worst-case scenario right now.
Change is a good thing. It may be painful and some guys may leave, but those who stay are going to play hard for whomever manages the Yankees. The Yankees tried to bring back the magic of the late 90’s/early 00’s by bringing the old gang back together. It didn’t work out, but it was a great last hurrah and we all need to turn the page. Players included.
pittsburg yankee fan – i wish that would happen, but don’t count on it.
the ownership knows it has to move on. it is too late.
joe wins. yankees lose. this may take a year or two to clean itself up
Mel, I’d like to think that Mo will end up being realistic and realizing that it’s not about the manager, it’s about the team and the pride in the Yankee franchise and that he should retire as one. But I don’t know. His comments make me nervous. And they also irritate me as well, but in the end I will always love Mo & want him around till the end no matter what. He’d have to, like, kill a nun or something to get me to be seriously mad at him.
Where’s Waldman? Is she sobbing in a back corner of the conference room?
Suzy,
I think they banned her from the pc. lol.
Michael Kay continues to hammer Torre. He just called him Teflon Joe again. What’s Kay’s story anyway? Is he Randy J. Levine’s butt-boy or what? He sickens me. I’d love to meet that big goofball on the street sometime.
I hope we can find another manager with an uncanny ability to pull a starter right after he’s allowed enough runs that the game is out of reach, and also posesses a knack for overworking and misusing the bullpen.
Hey Pete,
Just saw you on ESPN’s First Report alongside Buster Olney and Steve Phillips. This was my first time seeing you on TV and you did an awesome job, even though they messed up the segment by including Steve Phillips. Great job! Looking forward to see you more often.
Sean
Andrea: I’m still mad at Moose for going with Chase over T-Clip and DeSalvo on the last day of the season! He coached himself right out of ever being the pitching coach on the last day again!
eeek I just realized something…will the new manager even do the “let the players coach on the last day” thing?
This is a sad day in Yankeeland. Although I do think it was time for a change, there is so much I’ll miss about Joe.
bpt – agree to disagree.
love what dog is saying ‘for the yankee hater, this is the best thing to ever happen to us.’
Sj44, I appreciate your opinion and agree with you that the Yankees could have handle this better. However, you were a Torre basher all season long.
Joe Torre made over 500 pitching changes in 2007. That’s a major league record and speaks to the fact the Yankees pitching staff was weak. We saw in the playoffs that Wang is not a dominant ace. Without an ace on the top of the rotation and a bullpen that was only 2 pitchers deep, what exactly did Joe Torre do to deserve to be fired?
EJ,
Michael Kay has made a career following the party line and being biased pro-Yankees. No reason to expect any different from him here.
Michael Kay gives f***tards a bad name. God I hate him. Teflon Joe? How bout Teflon Lousy f’n Broadcaster? God, what an ahole.
Looks like Larry Bowa may be headed to Seattle to be the Mariners third base coach.
Rumor is, John McLaren is going to finalize his coaching staff and Bowa is the favorite to return to Seattle (he was there before) as third base coach.
Mel Stottlemyre is coming back to be the Mariners pitching coach next season.
well no trey hillman anymore, darn i really liked him, anyone else think bringing in bobby valentine would be a horrible move?
Questions I’d like to ask Joe:
1) Why were you the only person in America who didn’t recognize Wang had nothing in Game 1?
2) Why would you bring in a guy with 6 innings of MLB experience to replace him?
3) Why would you follow him with a guy who has pitched 9 bad MLB innings this season?
4) Why would you then follow him with a guy who is quite clearly a much better pitcher than either of the two previous relievers?
5) Why could you not tell that Chamberlain was clearly panicked by the bugs?
6) Why would you not pinch hit for Doug M the second Wang left Game 4 and we clearly needed Giambi’s bat in the lineup?
7) Can you please insult me with $5 million?
Of all the dramatic!!! These tears you hear are the tears on the coaches’ faces!! My friend! Oh, God, the humanity!
where did you hear this about with the mariners?
Stottlymyre is going to coach the Mariners?! Jebus, this day just gets better and better! (/sarcasm.)
BBB: I got love for Chase Wright too. But I would have liked to see our other boys too. Damn you, Moose!
I feel bad for the Mariners. Stottlymyre?
Trey Hillman out, just named mgr.of KC
All that Bowa as experienced bench coach now goes out the window.
I’m telling you, if Mattingly gets the job we’re gonna see the return of Andy Stankiewicz and Alvaro Espinosa. The dark days are coming. If I hear Dale Berra’s name mentioned for anything I may have to self induce a coma.
And that goes double for Butch Wynegar.
You know, when you really think about, do Latin American players really care about any of that baseball tradition stuff, i.e Yankee Pride. Did Mo grow up rooting for the Yankees, probably not, he probably rooted for whatever Panamanian/Latin American player was his favorite. He could probably care less who he plays for, he’s looking to take care of his family and relatives…whoever facilitates that best he’ll pitch for.
Randy Levine can’t disapear from the Yankee universe quick enough to suit me. What a piece of sh$#@#$it.
Torre came off like an arrogant ass who thinks he’s owed something when he’s owed nothing. He’s such a hypocrite. He has NO PROBLEM making top dollar when the team succeeds but cries about taking a paycut when the team fails. Yeah, being offered a salary higher than any other manager in M.L.B. is sooooo “insulting”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t $5M for 2008 more than even the salary of ANY American pro-sports team besides M.L.B. (N.F.L., N.B.A., and N.H.L.) I’m guessing Phil Jackson makes more than that for good reason.
Torre obviously and erroneoiusly thinks he deserves at least 2 years at top dollar or at least what he made this year per year. He is purely delusional and a egomaniac to think he should be rewarded for 7 years of horrendous failure after 5 years of success. In the real world, most people who fail year after year after success would be fired. He thinks he still has credit with 1996, 1998-2000 when he didn’t. The 2001-07 were 1,000X more brutal than the 1982-92 Yanks cuz they were too talented and made the postseason too many times not to win it all. 2001 and 2003 are still way more brutal to take than 2004 which I liken to a fluke. I also have the consolation that EVERY Red Sox fan gave up on their team down 0-3.
Nice of him to make light that he should’ve taken the team off the field when the bugs were getting to Joba. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out you lucky, blessed, along for the ride idiot.
Oh b.t.w. all you people who say the Yanks “took too long”
ummmmm b.s. to Torre not thinking he’d receive a one year contract and a paycut with incentives. He knew that offer was coming and could’ve announced he’s not taking that way before he actually did/ before the offer was made. He could’ve made a preemptive strike. Had he done that, he would’ve forced the Yanks to let go of or fire him.
CGramazio,
Don’t know the answer, but didn’t Santiago from “The Old Man and the Sea” follow the Yankees?
Michael Kay already negotiating for a pay increase in his next contract.
Anyone who says Joe Torre didn’t handle this press conference with class is nothing but a MORON!
And Michael Kay is definitely a MORON!
Keep us posted about the TShirts. I’m in for a few!
I believe you’re correct Mel, a DiMaggio fan.
Nate C
Actually Torre’s contract runs through the end of the month, but in essence you are correct that he really isn’t “working” for the Yanks any more. I have no problem with him having a press conference, but I expected him to take the high road and say something like he did in the beginning thanking everyone and just saying he is sorry they couldn’t come to an agreement and leave it at that. I have seen him do many press conferences where he refused to comment on “behind the scenes” meetings it would hardly have been out of character. I was especially surprised by his comments given that the media was overwhelmingly on his side making all the arguments he repeated. The “classy” thing to do is just thank the Yanks express your regrets that you couldn’t work something out and move on — I was very surprised he didn’t take that route.
Its not clear to me but perhaps you take me for a Yankee hater — nothing could be further from the truth. I have been a Yankee fan for as long as I can remember (I remember fondly the 1977-1978 Yanks). I have been a full season ticket holder since 1995 and have attended every home playoff game from 1995 to the present.
In the end I’m sorry that Joe is apparently bitter at how things went down. Based on his conduct in the past I had hoped that he understood the business side of things and would not take it so personally.
Frantic fans should remember that our future success is much more a function of who we sign to actually play the games than who we sign to manage the players. Did Torre suddenly become a managerial genius in 1996?
As far as fan/media reaction, I am not surprised. Its easy to love the individual you know and demonize that “organization.”
I think Torre handled things really well.
Sure, he makes mistakes, not every move works. His bullpen sucked bigtime until Joba showed up and then it still stunk except for Joba and Mo.
Will Jeter get a paycut after grounding into dps and striking out, leaving so may LOB?
A-Rod had one RBI and will get a huge extension and raise.
Posada did little in the ALDS and will get a new contract with a raise.
Torre’s record speaks for itself. Anything can happen in a short 3 of 5 series and things didn’t go the Yankees way.
A better move would be to fire Levine.
Also, if the only loyalty Posada, Mo and Pettite have is to Torre, then let’s get someone else to wear the Yankee uniform.
“Stottlymyre is going to coach the Mariners?! Jebus, this day just gets better and better! (/sarcasm.)”
True or not, why should this effect us? Why should we care. He did a great job in the 90s but he hasn’t been a part of the picture in quite awhile.
The Yankees had to turn the page… the ONLY (and that is ONLY) bad thing about Torre rejecting this offer is the effect it may have on the negotiations with Mo and Posada and on Pettite’s decision whether to come back. Twelve years is a long run as manager and it is time for the team to move upwards and onwards.
Michael “huge head” Kay, has never liked Joe from day one. He was probably popping corks of bubbly when he heard Joe wasn’t coming back.
CGramazio,
Santiago’s just like us. The Yankees were his lifeline!
As for Mo, something must’ve happened about a year ago because he feels disrespected even though wasn’t treated any differently than any of the other free agents.
I hope it’s a negotiating ploy because he’s as Yankee as they come. He’s already set up so it’s all about respect for him.
Wow! Randy Levine got Ian O’Connor in touch with Steinbrenner.
Randy Levine is classless! I know he was integral in the stadium deal, but how did this man get so much power on the baseball side?
Per the Houston Chronicle, regarding Andy Pettitte:
“Andy Pettitte isn’t ready to talk about whether Joe Torre’s departure will cause him to head elsewhere this winter.
“I’m laying low,” Pettitte said. “I’ve been trying not to even think about baseball. I told myself I’ll take a month off and then the first of November I’ll think about what I’ll do.” Pettitte has a $16 million player option to return to the Yankees. “I’m extremely disappointed Joe’s not coming back. Other than that I don’t really have anything to comment,” he said. If Pettitte does leave, it’s expected that Houston will try to bring him back.”
http://blogs.chron.com/basebal.....hares.html
You people keep saying that it’s time to move on, “upwards and onwards,” whatever.
What makes you so sure that Torre is holding them back from doing so? Why are you so confident that replacing Torre won’t cause the team to move downward and backward?
Bob in NC — Torre was not getting a pay cut (that kept him the top paid manager in baseball by 40% WITHOUT incentives) for losing the ALDS in 2007 — so your comparison to the performance of Jeter and ARod and Posada in that series is ridiculous. He was getting a pay cut for underachieving for the last four years. He was never a great in-game manager, he notoriously destroyed bullpen arms ad frequently looked like he was sleepwalking his way through games. He may have a way of talking to and motivating the team in the locker room, but it still got us bounced early in the last three playoffs and embarassed in 2004.
Torre has changed since the World Series winning teams of the 90s and a fresh outlook is what the Yankees need. Good luck Joe! You are a classy guy, but you deserved nothing more than you were offered.
Per SI, regarding Hillman’s hiring:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
“love what dog is saying ‘for the yankee hater, this is the best thing to ever happen to us.’”
give me a break.
torre is like 68.
do people think he was going to manage forever??
this was going to happen either now or within 2 years.
this notion that the Yankees will never win with any other manager is ridiculous.
Per the Seattle News-Tribune, regarding Seattle coaching candidates:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....80215.html
No baseball people making baseball decisions.
Led by the clown Levine.
Help us Brian Cashman, your our only hope!(Set to Repeat).
re: Ingrate Torre
The problem with your logic (and that of many others here) is that Torre is adamant that it’s not about the money. It’s really all about the “incentives” they built into the contract. Could the pay cut have factored in, despite Joe’s claims? Sure, probably. I still think the final straw, though, were the carrots the Yankees insisted on dangling in front of one of the most successful managers in history to motivate him. Give me a break. Thanks for the memories, Joe – you did the right thing.
B,
Not to speak for Torre but some reasonable answers to your question would be:
1) I was handed the worst bullpen of any playoff team. I had exactly 2 people in the bullpen I could rely on. Should I have put Chamberlain in to pitch in the 5th inning?
2)See answer to question #1
3)See answers to questions #1 and #2
4) If you didn’t like me pitching Ohlendorf how come you think it would be such a hot idea to have Hughes make the first relief appearance of his life? Also, I was holding out Hughes in case Clemens couldn’t pitch Game 3,but was forced to use him anyways due to the answers I gave to questions #2 and #3.
5) You’re right. I should have pulled the team off the field.
6)It was pretty evident that Jason Giambi couldn’t hit the sweat off his brow. There wasnt a bigger waste of $16mil antwhere in baseball this year.
7)As I said in my press conference, money wasnt the reason I turned down the offer. Levine and the Steinbrenners wouldnt even listen to my counteroffer.
“You know, when you really think about, do Latin American players really care about any of that baseball tradition stuff, i.e Yankee Pride. Did Mo grow up rooting for the Yankees, probably not, he probably rooted for whatever Panamanian/Latin American player was his favorite. He could probably care less who he plays for, he’s looking to take care of his family and relatives…whoever facilitates that best he’ll pitch for.”
i’m sure A-Rod will be held to this same standard.
For those who think it too long for the Yanks to make their decision; how long do you think the “media” will up the story about poor JT being disrespected?
If Joe really wanted to be Yankees manager he would have accepted the offer he didn’t because he thought he could get more he miscalculated so he is moving on.
Joe handled his press conference with class, but now Joe is the past and it is the time for the Yankees to move on thinking about 2008 and beyond.
I can’t wait to see a bit more managerial energy in the dugout.
“I’m telling you, if Mattingly gets the job we’re gonna see the return of Andy Stankiewicz and Alvaro Espinosa. ”
Does anyone else feel this way? If so, why? Cause I don’t agree, I think Donnie would do a fine job, not as good as Girardi who is DEFINITELY the guy I want, but fine. As long as we have the pitching, we will win games. I really don’t see how having a different manager will be the ultimate difference in whether the team succeeds or fails.
kpantz — I think Joe said that it was the one year contract first and the incentives second. Would he have accepted a 2 yr, $4MM per year deal? Maybe. But the Yankees could have fired him either way.
New manager. New stadium. Young players. New era of baseball in the Bronx. Change keeps life exciting! You can get excited for the future while respecting what Torre did for the Yankees in his first five years as skipper.
“For everything he has done, he deserves to still be employed by the Yankees. Not as the manager but, in a front office capacity.”
sj- we’re on the same page on this. i’m a big believer that any successful organization has a culture to it. some people get it and some don’t. torre clearly got it. a successful organization doesn’t exclude people that get it. bumping torre up to a lifelong advisor would have been the best scenario for all concerned.
i don’t like this trend of booting out core people like stottlmyre bernie, torre, guidry, etc. there are ways to keep them as part of the organization. if mattingly isn’t chosen to be manager, he’s probably going to have to be excluded too. at this rate they are going to have trouble filling out a roster for an old timers game.
I don’t think the bullpen was significantly worse than Boston, Anaheim, Colorado, Philadelphia, or Chicago.
While we’re talking about bullpens, is any announcer going to mention that Rafael Betancourt was suspended for steroids? Seems like they jump all over every big name slugger that’s even linked to it, but guys like this get a pass.
Better that Torre answered the questions. otherwise, everything would have been endlessly speculated upon. I thought he handled the situation well, as I expected he would; he is extremely comfortable in a press conference – he’s had the experience.
My take was he was not insulted by the money offer, but he was insulted that after 12 years of working his tail off they thought he had to be motivated, and that in offering a one-year deal they were saying they didn’t trust him. He felt they were no longer on the same level of commitment. And he’s right in saying that it would a continuous distraction all next season – any miscues at all, and his job is on the line. Added pressured to a team that surely needs no added pressure.
Of course he’s hurt, he’s human. I wouldn’t go so far as to say he was bitter and I thought saying he was not prepared to comment on future dealings with the Yankees was the only way to answer that. You don’t want to burn bridges by allowing your emotions to answer; and you don’t want to say everything’s okay, when right now anyway, it’s not.
I think he made it quite clear that he was grateful to George Steinbrenner for the 12 years he had, warts and all. He knew who he was working for. I don’t think he was arrogant. I think, though, that when you have a body of work that he has had, you do make certain assumptions about your value and your worth, and in the end it came up short. He was expecting this, especially after last year.
Incentives doublespeak
I really fail to understand Torre’s argument — its indisputable that the Yankees as an organization make significantly more money the further the Yankees advance in the playoffs. What is so “insulting” about linking a portion of your pay to how well the team does? In fact, if Cot’s information is correct Torre’s last contract included a bonus for winning the World Series!
In the business world often a portion of your pay (sometimes a very large portion) is a function of hitting goals for which you have only a small amount of control.
““Stottlymyre is going to coach the Mariners?! Jebus, this day just gets better and better! (/sarcasm.)â€?
True or not, why should this effect us? Why should we care.”
Chuck: in the grand scheme of things, I guess it really shouldn’t (if anything at this point Bowa leaving may have more of a tangible effect b/c of the work he’s done with Cano.) But I always liked Stottlemyre as a coach alot, and when he left after 05 I was under the impression that he wanted lesser responsibility (which he got with Arizona) and just no longer wanted to be a pitching coach. Now we have Guidry, and I think Stottlemyre is better than Guidry so it would kinda be a bummer to see him go to another team while we still have Giudry. Though Pete did hint a few days ago Guidry was likely to be replaced, we don’t know with whom yet…
N.Y. Times article on the press conference:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....ref=slogin
B
I hate the Red Sox with a passion, but you can’t be serious when you say Okajima, Delcarmen and Timlin aren’t a whole lot better than Farnsworth, Vizcaino and Veras.
Russo makes a valid point, which I’ve been thinking about… the next manager may very well be “disposable”… someone they can fire without much fallout.
Celerino Sanchez for Yankee Manager.
Very disappointing day in Yankee land. Torre was completely mishandled.
Suzyn, in life, everything must come to an end…Jesus, get a hold of yourself!
so are the consensusbrenners going to give arod a take it or leave it deal in the next few weeks?
i sure hope not because the yankees need arod now more than ever and boras won’t put up with that kind of non negotiation.
Joe coming up shortly on WFAN.
bpt – so he shouldn’t have said anything about how the negotiations went? it wasn’t like joe spilled the beans and told everyone there how he thought randy levin was satan and that george should stuff it. he got asked a thousand questions on what happened in that room and i think, he was pretty fair.
joe could make millions if he wrote a book telling the world about the dark side of the yankees, but he won’t do that. (maybe he will)
i guess it all boils down to the way i personally view the way joe goes about these press conferences. if you don’t have any opions then you are a bore, like jeter, but joe is pretty good at being fair but getting his opionion out.
Doreen,
Well said.
Levine got his scalp. Now, I hope like hell he stays out of baseball operations.
I heard the same rumor re: Levine setting up the phone call with “O’Connor. Torre alluded to it today when he discounted the veracity of George’s anger in that interview.
Randy Levine is BAD, BAD news.
If he gets involved in the player talks, its not going to work out well for the Yankees. That’s when I could see players leaving because he has NO relationship with the players.
Just let Brian Cashman do his job and stay the hell out of baseball matters.
I can’t express enough the distain I have for, Levine and the way the Yankees handeled Joe Torre. We’ve got corporate business people that never played the game professionally making serious baseball decisions.
I agree with Doreen’s comments whole-heartedly. Torre has said that you need to put players in a situation where they can succeed, and the short leash they wanted him on was not that type of situation, as he knows from past experience. He knows what motivates him, and he knows what motivates his players, and it’s not a million dollar bonus or the threat of being canned. It sends a really negative message, I think, and Joe obviously does too.
Andrea, Jennifer: He isn’t the HEAD bleacher creature. He’s a nice guy who started sitting out there long before the traditions you know now were put in place. Someone who also decided to make money off of the bleacher creatures.
I found Joe Torre’s press conference very revealing. As usual, I am in agreement with SJ44’s assessment. Torre is a class guy and has done more for Yankee public relations than anyone since George took over in 1973. Still it is not the only consideration for retaining him as manager given the present circumstances. Joe Torre’s management style, his age, the changing face of the team’s player personnel, the new direction of managment all have contributed to the current situation.
Joe’s remarks indicated to me that:
He is still very hurt that the “new Yankee management” showed no confidence in his ability as manager, nor respect for his accomplishments over 12 seasons in offering him a short term contract and not having the interest to listen to any counteroffer. Still he fails to recognize that maybe he has some shortcomings that could have also been discussed with management along with his counteroffer.
He implies that Cashman was his only supporter and that George’s power has been usurped by the triumvant of Levine, and the two Steinbrenner sons.
He also implies that the Steinbrenner statement during the ALDS may have been a setup to start the process of discrediting his managerial style. The implication was that when George expressed himself in the past, he would find a forum rather than being approached by a reporter who somehow gained access to him.
He will not listen to any future offers with the Yankee organization until and unless he feels that the “new management” can respect his management style and accomplishments.
Right now he is allowing the hurtful feelings to infere with the prospective of future plans for Yankee management to honor his legacy. Hopefully that bitterness will not prevent a Joe Torre Day from happening in the future.
If he is sincere about the support that his players, coaches, peers and fans have given him (and I’m convinced he is), then he can’t refuse them this opportunity to celebrate his accomplishments.
Royals hired Hillman.
This Sneaky bunch is Now called “The Funky Bunch” for the way their operating.Don’t be surprised if Cashman gets the boot too and Walt Jockety comes here from St Louis with you know who”The Drunken Lawyer.”This stinks to high heaven!!
I was of the mindset a while ago that the O’Conner article didn’t ring true…
“so are the consensusbrenners going to give arod a take it or leave it deal in the next few weeks?
i sure hope not because the yankees need arod now more than ever and boras won’t put up with that kind of non negotiation.”
That’s exactly the offer Cashman gave Damon and Boras……….
bitter: I know he’s not the “head” bleacher creature. It was just easier to go along with calling him that and to acknowledge I knew who she was talking about. He’s still a super nice guy.
His name was escaping me, it is Vinny. He leads the chants.
SJ44,
You are correct that we should be anxious regarding Levine’s increased role. One can only hope that he was chosen by the Steinbrenners to be the “front guy” yesterday, knowing that much wrath would befall the “messenger”.
However, of great concern is the fact that Levine has considerable background involving MLB contracts (he was MLB’s chief negotiator/arbititrator) for MLB before he worked for Guliani.
Up until recently, few people had any idea what Randy Levine, Lonn Trost, or Hank and Hal Steinbenner even looked like. About as non-descript as the average person getting on or off a subway train and that’s not likely to change.
Sj44,
I appreciate your opinion and agree with you that the Yankees could have handle this better. However, you were a Torre basher all season long. Now that you’ve got your wish I find it disingenous of you that you’re appalled at the process. This is George Steinbrenner we’re talking about here. The same George Steinbrenner who put more pressure on his team at the worst possible moment after Game 2.
Joe Torre made over 500 pitching changes in 2007. That’s a major league record and speaks to the fact the Yankees pitching staff was weak. We saw in the playoffs that Wang is not a dominant ace. Without an ace on the top of the rotation and a bullpen that was only 2 pitchers deep, what exactly did Joe Torre do to deserve to be fired?
joe Average,you are right Levine especially would get punched in the nose!!!!
Jennifer: yeah. Bald Vinny.
What “take it or leave offer” are the Yankees giving ARod?
They are only telling ARod that they will not pursue him if he opts out. The Yankees would be out $21.9 from the Texas Rangers portion of his contract if ARod opts out – their decision makes good sense.
I’m sure Cashman will make a very generous offer to Boras between now and the end of the World Series. Hopefully, it won’t be more than 6 years/30 Mil.
Joe,
I think Lonn Trost is also a Torre supporter. Always has been in the past.
I don’t have a problem with making a change. How they did it was dumb and unnecessary.
Good organizations have a line of succession. On field, and off for that matter, the Yankees don’t seem to have that and its unsettling.
You just hope they learned something and don’t make this same mistake with the players.
If George was George, you know he would be reaching out to Torre right now to find a way to bring him back into the fold in an advisory capacity.
When you think about it, there is no reason why, for all that he has done, he can’t still be in the organization, even if its not as manager.
Its going to be a wild off-season, that’s for sure.
Why drive 4-5? You can disagree with a manager’s strategy without being a “basher”. Plus, I have ALWAYS advocated that the Yankees make sure Torre stays in the organization in some capacity.
Yes, I wanted a managerial change because I believe its time for a new voice. But, that doesn’t mean you have to do it in a way to dump on the guy. Its unnecessary.
I don’t see why the two positions are so confusing to you.
I don’t think these “New at Baseball Mgmt” people have done
anythimg to help the avrage Yankee fan transition past this
Do they think they got away with this travesty!Joe is gone but they look stupid.
SJ44–
It’s amazing. The Mariners fired a whole coaching staff and here in New Jersey I didn’t know a thing about it. All Yankees all the time, I guess.
The Yankees are going to have work very quickly if they want to secure the people they want.
Am I the only one who thinks Levine has Hank and Hal’s ear.
Levine has the to be the fall guy for all this. His greedy mug was too happy in the press conference yesterday doing all the speaking,for the Yankees.
Angry? Disgusted? Devastated to see Torre go?
Yo, take comfort. You’re not as pissed or depressed as this Schweber guy.
You gotta read this: “The Little Men of the Bronx”
http://theyankeesrepublic.blogspot.com
Espn did a poll to see what the baseball community thought ,about the Yankees chances of making the playoffs next year. 55% said no way Yankees make postseason. Already
the vultures are out!
kpantz
“Incentives” isn’t the proper word. That money was really
bonuses”. Torre gets $1M if the Yanks make the postseason,
$1M if they make it to the A.L.C.S., and $1M if they make it to the World Series.
I’m sorry, the man has managed too many failed teams the past 7 teams to get a contract for more than one year. He got a 3-year $19M contract once. Why didn’t he turn that down on the grounds that that says he’s a bigger part of the winning that the players? The Yanks rewarded him with top dollar. $5M is still $1.5M > the next highest paid M.L.B. manager (Lou Pinella who is overpaid). You can’t accept reward for success then demand it for failure as well, that’s it.
B.t.w. why did Posada agree to a vested option for 2007?
SJ44: what do you think the chances are that George is going after Lou? Is it even possible?
SJ44,
I’m sorry, but the only difference between “disagreeing” and “bashing” is semantics. You certainly were vocal about some of Joe managerial decisions. We’re all fans here and we all did it it from time to time. But a call for a new voice is a call to be fired.
Some folks have gotten what they wished for. But Joe has been walked off the plank the only way Steinbrenner knows how,without class. I don’t understand what people thought was going to happen. There has never been a clean break in a Yankee managerial change since 1973.
When it come to the Yankee Mananger How many of you would trade Torre for Mattingly—I would’t
Haha…Tony Pena…haha. Wow, I hope you idiots get him to be your manager. Protect your wives!