La Russa set to return to Cardinals
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- October
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Cross Tony La Russa off your list. He will be back with the Cardinals.
He, of course, was “offended” by suggestions he used the Yankees to expedite the process.
Had be become the manager of the Yankees, they would have needed security guards at the press conferences.
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on Saturday, October 20th, 2007 at 5:33 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
THANK GOD!
He was never on the list.
Now I don’t have to get violent
I really don’t think he was a serious candidate for the Yanks’ job anyways.
Thank God! I was hopeing that rumor was BS!
His post-game news conferences would have been interesting.
Bring on the Don Mattingly era!
It almost feels more like cross the Cardinals off of Joe Torre’s list. Maybe that helped hasten LaRussa’s decision.
It seemed like a logical landing point for Joe if LaRussa left.
I doubt if LaRussa was ever a serious consideration. He would have been a PR disaster in New York.
The more I think about it, the more I think that
a Pena (Mgr.)/Mattingly (Bench coach) combination for the next 2 years would be best for the Yankees (until Donnie has gained mor managerial experience).
Pena would:
a. Fulfill the MLB edict of interviewing/retaining minorities for management roles.
b. Provide a good baseball mind and former Manager of the Year (with much less resources given him in Kansas City)
c. Is well respected by the current Yankee members, particularly the Latin players who have a strong presence with the current team.
d. Seemed to be fairly media savvy based upon his experience with Kansas City.
I guess the only wildcard will be how members of the “new management” view him.
Peter Gammons reported back on Tuesday that the Yankees have already made a Johan Santana inquiry. The tidbit mentioned a cellphone conversation where apparently a Yankee exec asked who the team would need to part with aside from Chien-Ming Wang to acquire the Twins’ ace.
Makes sense that the Yanks would place a call on this; Santana’s the best pitcher in baseball and they’re the Yankees. And the general vibe seems to be that the Twins are at least listening on Santana. Wang or Cano plus another premium prospect seems a reasonable bounty. The acquiring team may require a negotiating window. And technically, Santana could have the Yankees on his 12-team no trade list.
Donnie baseball
-Tony Larussa-
-Trey Hillman-
Joe G
Tony Pena
Great, wonderful terrific St Louis won’t be happy.Would liked to have had their pitching coach Dave Duncan though.
I’d be a little surprised if the Twins took Wang, given that he’s a sinkerball pitcher and they plan on artificial turf. I don’t know how he’s done there in the past. I’d be hesitant to add Cano to that package, or another pitcher with a pretty good ceiling (Joba, Hughes or Kennedy). Santana is older, and you don’t know if his best years are behind him; he did sag a little bit this past season.
I would only add Melky (they will need a CF, post-Hunter) if we had someone like Aaron Rowand in the fold (I would miss Melky’s energy).
I’d include Wang in a deal for Santana, but not Cano.
Here’s the actual St. Louis Post-Dispatch article, if you’d rather not read the Yahoo interpretation.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument
In the name of the father the son and the holy spirit.
AMEN!
Johnathan,that would really be a surprise if a pitcher of his caliber had the Yankees on that no trade list. One of the reasons he so unhappy with the Twins, is their lack of intrest to win. He wants to win.I wouldn’t have a problem losing Wang for a strike out pitcher,you bet.
At this point, I’m rooting for any manager that will treat the media like the dirt they are.
As far as Torre is concerned, after reading the Klapsch and Vaccaro articles, I’ve gone from thinking highly of him to utterly disgusted.
Because the Yankees made that insulting $5M offer for only 1 year, he’s not going to set foot back in the stadium? How pathetic.
Apparently, Torre is bigger than the Yankees. More important than the NYY. And now he’s going to do what he can to make the NYY look bad.
You’ve got to admire his dignity, don’t you?
Joe Torre: Get over yourself.
Media: The sooner you get over Torre, the sooner you’ll stop embarrassing yourselves.
*Breathes a sigh of relief*
As soon as the Yankees name their new manager and make a FA player-signing announcement, the angst over the Torre firing will dissipate. Hope will be restored, the hot-stove season will have begun, and most of will still be pissed at the way Torre was handled. Not that he was replaced; how he was handled.
Harkens back to the days of old, when Yankee fans were reminded on a daily basis that we rooted for the Yankees in spite of the idiocy and embarrassment that is von Steingrabber.
Beckett > 2 * Santanna
santana is a year older than wang.
Eric,
Well said.
This bullshi*t about Joe will continue until the new manager is selected. Then for a few days, all these Torre apologist media guys will beat up on the selection how he can not do as good as Joe.
thank you God. GIRARDI 2008!!!!!
Beckett
I’d take Beckett on the Yankees, right after I’d sign Manny and ship the team off to Alaska to play all its home games….Josh and Manny have just enough class to enter the local 7-11 after midnight to buy another bottle of Mad Dog 20/20….PUNKS !
I am not convinced that Yanks will go after Santana. He showed signs of slowing down last year and he costs a lot in players and money.
I would not be surprised if they zero in on another top flight starter from another team and go after him for much less cost.
Other than A-Rod, the new regime will not throw money at other players from other teams. They will make fair offers to Mariano and Posada. If they balk and want to sqeeze every dollar, they will let them go as well. My gut feeling is that Mariano will be back, but Posada is iffy. In fact, I would not be disappointed if Posada leaves. As a catcher he is overrated, though offensively he is great. Remember, we won WSs with Girardi, who is a better catcher, but not an offensive force.
What scares me about Santana is he led the league in HRs surrendered this past year. But then again Beckett gave up a boatload of HRs in 06…
Rj mad dog 20/20 is too classy for them.Try Boones farm it’s a better fit!
I’m so glad we have the expert opinions of Eric and BBFan to let us know that Torre is just a disgusting media hound. I always thought that about him.
Torre never pretended to be bigger than the Yanks, nor has he indicated that he wants the Yanks to look bad. They managed that trick all by themselves.
Again, it was not about replacing him. It was about HOW they did it.
I look forward to cheering for whoever they hire, as I am sure we (almost) all do.
But again — all these guys who have followed the story, have written about all things Yankees for dozens of years, THEY are clueless, they are just idiots. Not a bunch of fans who cannot comprehend the idea that one of the most successful managers in baseball history deserved a little more consideration.
BBB,
Santana is very upset with the Twins he’s said he wants out. That will effect performance greatly.
Oh, and Eric:
Just to be fair, as they say in my business, “I am a engineer” in upstate New York. I deal in facts, not fantasies. I am sure real estate has made you very wealthy. My mom was a real estate agent, and I got to know what many of them were like. So when it comes to bullsh*t, I have no doubt you are an expert.
But hey, that is just my opinion.
Jimbo,
You are entitled to your opinions, but do not put words in my mouth, Ok.
I said that Yanks should have handled better in an earlier thread. Most of my posts centered around the vultures from media, including my last post.
Having said that, yeah, I believe Torre is overrated and the change is good for the Yanks going forward. Time will tell if I am write or wrong.
A Santana deal would force the tabs to write about something else. Which would be cool. But Cano has no place in that deal. Or any deal for that matter.
Wang, on the other hand…
BBB: T.Clip and Matty barely surrendered ANY home runs….
Jimbo thank you.
I looked at the entire 106min press conference,and listened to Mad dog. Torre repeatedly said “it not the money.” He worried that he would be a lame duck mgr,that if the players would have a slump,they (players) would feel they got him fired.A two yr contract would have helped(IHOP) to alleviate that.
If you all believe the Torre questions will stop being raised once a new manager has been selected, you’ve got another thing coming. Joe Torre is the newest ghost of Yankeedom. He will haunt the Yankees until around this time next year. At which point one of three things may happen:
1. The Yankees make the playoffs and at least make it to the ALCS. If this happens the ghost will be exorcised.
2. The Yankees make the playoffs and once again lose in the first round. The ghost of Torre remains, but only as a, “See the new guy did no better than Joe. It wasn’t Joe’s fault.” commentary.
3. The Yankees fail to make the playoffs. This is the worst case scenario for a Yankee fan. Then the Ghost of Joe Torre will live on, and the questions raised will never be quelled. Torre becomes a bigger saint and the Yankee organization an even bigger sinner.
So really, everyone should just sit back and get ready for a wild ride…’08 is going to be a doozy.
Torre’s response reveals some deep rooted anger that goes well beyond the failed 2008 contract offer. Possibly he has ignored the incremental abuse over the years waiting for an opportunity to exit with his dignity and respect intact, a first ballot vote into the HOF and bags of money, enough to get him into retirement, his homes in Westchester and Maui paid for. Personally I think GS has been very monetarily generous to Joe over the course of his career, I would hate to think to think that Joe compromised his beliefs and prostituted himself all these years to get into the comfty position he displayed on his way out yesterday.
Catya: True, but you would hope he’d be enough of a professional to put his beefs with the Twins (all of which he is in the right about imo) aside when he took the mound and not let it effect his performance. If he is going to let angst re: the FO affect his on-field performance in Minny, then how well will he do playing in NY, ya know?
I’m not against trading for Santana but I would just as soon make a move for Bedard. O’s won’t be able to re-sign him.
Jeter found in L.A. according to People Mag. There’s a picture of him in the car with another male dude. Peter that’s probably why you haven’t heard from him
Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter may be taking a well-timed vacation from the New York tabloid headlines about his departing coach Joe Torre.
The superstar, normally a club fixture on the East Coast, has been taking L.A. by storm – hitting the Hollywood hot spots two nights in a row. On Thursday, as Torre was turning down Yankees owner George Steinbrenner’s one-year contract offer, Jeter stepped out at the new lounge Green Door in Hollywood with a bunch of pals.
Then Friday, Jeter was at it again, surrounded by a bevy of beauties at Les Deux in Hollywood. Along with a guy friend and the club promoter, Jeter took over a massive outdoor table in the club’s patio area and it wasn’t long before the table was completely surrounded with women. A clubgoer tells PEOPLE, “Jeter just enjoyed the attention with his buddy and left in peace at closing time.”
Andrea: True!! And, T-Clip is a better hitter (for all 2 or 3 interleague games where he might hit, lol) and DeSalvo has a better reading list! They make Johan look small!
BBB He’s only human. After they get taken care of moneywise they all want a Ring!
Well, Santana definitely deserves a ring. It would certainly be sweet if he got one with us!
I agree with whoever wrote above that Cano should not be part of any trade though. I’d be more amenable to trading Wang, but Minny would also want a CF to replace Hunter. Meaning, they’d definitely want Melky. I don’t think Brett Gardner will cut it, and I wouldn’t want to give up Melky or Action Jackson…
Think we could get Bedard for Kennedy and Cabrera?
catya: shouldn’t matter. And what the hell is IHOP?
BBB: true! They overshadow him by FAR! We don’t need no Santana! We’ve got T Clipp and Matty DeSalvo! We shoudl write letters to Cash and tell him why this is fine.
buchholz jacked my laptop: Yes, but I would not want to trade Kennedy under any circumstances. Especially not to the O’s, I’d have visions of him pitching 1-hit shutouts against us for years to come.
Andrea: and in a similar vein, who really needs Randy Levine when we got Matty & T-Clip? Cash needs to be made aware of that one ASAP too!
Andrea you have a pit bull mentality,I won’t engage YOU any more. in his opinion DAH!
Why did a man who just lost his job feel the need to have a press conference? why did he feel the need to get his side of the story out? If he felt insulted or Jilted he should have rode off into the sunset knowing he did the best he could and move on to the next stage in his life. Everyone in the media is saying how classy he was in the press conf. thanking George et al…How is that sincere? He called a press conference to throw The Yankee braintrust under a bus. He knew the media would be on his side and he took full advantage of it. He played the roll of victim to an Oscar worthy performance. The media and a large part of the fan base took the bait hook line and sinker. George has made some bone headed and mean spirited moves in the past and I am sure he wanted Torre gone. However, the rest of the braintrust decided to keep him on the condition that he take a paycut and give him a performance based bonus (not uncommon in todays business world) This is more than he would have gotten last year had he not begged to finish out his contract.All of you Torre Schills are calling yankee fans who disagree with you all kinds of names and accusing us of being disloyal or even worse, RedSox Fans. It is the fan that can see past the drama and look fwd to a new regime and a new era while rooting for The Yankees Brand that are the real fans. If you want to follow Torre to his new team then by all means, do so…I will continue to root for the laundry.
I don’t have a pitbull mentality. I just don’t understand what you’re talking about, ever, and you act like it’s because it’s a matter of opinion difference. IHOP is International House of Pancakes. IHO would be In His Opinion. I don’t have a pitbull mentality, I just really and truly never understand what you are talking about.
And I was simply agreeing with BBB in that regardless of his attitude toward Minny and Minny’s attitude toward winning, it shouldn’t affect Santana’s pitching.
Jeter and A-Rod in LA the same week? hmmm, must be a conspiracy. Are they are planning the mass exodus from Pinstripe hell?
BBB: Maybe Matty is smart enough, you know, with the books and all, to run the business. Down with Randy! Up with Matty! or something….
Cash, make it happen!
VOlll,what havoc Boras could play in the Yankees if he was jeter’s agent!
As Tuna Parcells said, “You are what your record says you are”. Tony LaRussa is a good manager but absolutely NEVER can he be a fit in New York.
“Why did a man who just lost his job feel the need to have a press conference? why did he feel the need to get his side of the story out? If he felt insulted or Jilted he should have rode off into the sunset knowing he did the best he could and move on to the next stage in his life.”
VOIII,
You’re kidding, right?
There were helicopters flying over the man’s house! There were hordes of photographers and reporters in his bushes. He had to have a press conference. In addition, he owed it to everyone (including the fans)to have the press conference and say goodbye.
Catya
I hear he called Torre to see if he wanted a new agent
VOIII – he had a press conference bacause the media was quite literally camped out at his house. Helicopters followed him to the Hilton for the presser. There is no way they were going to leave him alone until he told his side of the story. This is New York, after all.
There is not mystery here. And he was classy, but that is his nature after all those years under the media microscope. All you who think that he has had a free ride in the press are wrong. They have hung him out to dry plenty, and he was graceful about it. That is another reason he will be missed.
VOlll.Hahaha!Touche
He could have said good bye with out throwing the Team that made him an Icon and a very wealthy man under the Bus. He could have chose not to answer the questions about whether or not the offer was an insult or a ploy. That would have been the high road. Instead he chose to poor gas on the fire and scorch the Steinbrenners…
VOIII: Lighten up. He chose not to comment on a lot of stuff. If he did comment on the things he felt were unfavorable, then he would have thrown then under the bus.
I wish there were other things going on so there could be other things to discuss.
With no disrespect to Johan Santana, he’s lefthanded which explains much of his aura. If he were righthanded, he would be lumped together with any of the good righthanders in the game.
I sa this one coming from a mile away. The latest from Mr. Boras:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/2.....sportsbiz/
Torre never showed himself to be a liar while a Yankee. Meanwhile the day before, Levine couldn’t get enough camera
time to talk about the situation first.
VOIII,
Joe was honest without being too honest.
If Torre really wanted to, I’m sure he could have REALLY thrown them under the bus.
Bedard is a better pitcher then Santana.
Jor Lasted 12 YRS working for Big Stein. Do you know how hard that would be for anyone? He’s the boss from the devil,never satified.
Can you Yankee fans say…… BOBBY VALENTINE, its going to happen. Take it to the bank
And if the Yankees wanted to fire Joe last year or this year they could have done so. Instead They chose to make him an offer based on his recent performance and were absolutely harpooned. The tire tracks are all over the Steinbrenners and Randi Levine. The media states as fact that Levine despises Torre, where is the proof? You all make him out to be evil, again where is the proof?
It is sad for me to report that “Big Game” Schilling will no doubt show up today and shut the Indians down. Nothing short of divine intervention could stop this team now. Nevertheless, Go Rockies!
Viking Coach,Pete spoke with Cashman yesterday and he gave 3 names.Yours wasn’t on the list. Waht do you know? Please tell your source.
Stop talking up Clippard and DeSalvo, will ‘ya?! I’m not sure if you guys are serious, but it’s beginning to worry me!!!
Some people may be underestimating Johann Santana. He’s been spectacular for the Minnesota Twins – give him proper, consistent run support and a situation where he doesn’t have to be “THE MAN,” and watch out.
BBB, I think Chicago Dave doubts the talent of T Clipp and Matty. He has to learn.
I don’t know about Desalvo, But I am not ready to give up on T-Clip…He is still very young and has very good stuff. He really looked good until being yanked around the rotation. His mechanics got screwed up but he started to get them together twds the end of the AA season. I suspect Eiland had something to do with that. He has worked wonders for these kids.
I agree with those who would take Bedard over Santana. Of course, we have no shot whatsoever at getting Bedard, and only a marginal chance at getting Santana, so it’s basically one big hypothetical discussion, regardless!
Chicago DAVE, they are trolls,look at what they post!They just want to attack,that’s all.Becareful they are vicious,heaven forbid you have a typo,they come out in droves!
Andrea -
We’ve had this discussion (several time) before…
Clippard may end up being a decent major league pitcher, but DeSalvo will never successfully make the jump. Just because you like the guy personally doesn’t mean he has the raw stuff to be a major league-caliber pitcher!!
DeSalvo is a wannabe (and never will be) Tom Glavine.
melky cabrera, chien ming wang and ian kennedy for johan santana. no thanks.
yanks to pursue aaron rowand. no thanks.
Not Sure we need Santana or Bedard…The 3 kids are going to be #1 or # 2 type starters. And there are a few more down on the farm that could be special. Although, it would be nice if one of them were a south-paw…
VOIII – Yeah, where’s the next Andy P.?!
LaRussa would never fit in New York. He is too whiny, argumentative and paranoid. Only the media in New York is allowed to be that.
Catya, I’m not a troll, and neither is BBB. And if you go back and look at a lot of your posts in the previous thread, no one knew what you were talking about. And when I asked you what you were talking about, you told me we had different opinions. You really just don’t make sense sometimes, and that’s not my fault. I’ve asked you a couple times already, but *please* stop the name calling.
Chicago Dave and I have had some conversations in the past about my silly enfatuations. Dave, my new idea is to have DeSalvo take over Randy Levine’s job–any objections?
Chicago,
It is amazing the Yankees are filthy rich in young arms trough out the farm system but none of the more promising ones are leftys.
VOIII, You and I are alone on this. Joe has made a fortune as the manager of the NY Yankees, Terry Francona earned 1.65 Mil this season, Joe 7.5 mil with an option for 1 mil. if he won the WS. No other manager in the game was offered the 1 mil. WS bonus option. Joe made more than double that of Lou his closest peer at 3 1/2 mil. How do you think GS feels watching the Sox and Francona in the ALDS, after doling out 200 mil. for team, and 7.5 mil for his manager? I know they did’nt have the pitching nor have they the past 3 seasons, but there is quite a bit of room here for owner angst. I also suspect this has built up over time in Torre and this contratc situation was ripe and Joe’s bank book bulging with Steinbrenner dollars. He has been the highest paid manager of any sport of all time, and the 5 mil base was still far and away more than any of his peers would get paid in 2008. If Torre would have accepted the 2008 contract there would no news, I believe that are two sides to this story and only half is being told by the media. If all the Steinbrenner bashers think that this is a sad departure wait until Georhe Syeinbrenner goes, H and H will sell everything in a NY minute. Enjoy.
Chicago Dave ,in my reply to YOU ,I don’t recall saying any names,but if the shoe fits I guess some will wear them!
I know this might be a sensitive subject, but is anyone watching the game? This little video they made with the Tom Petty song is actually quite good. I want to be the guy who makes the videos.
Andrea – Well, obviously anyone with any sort of “real” baseball experience is eminently more qualified than Levine, so I suppose DeSalvo might work… (he says, tongue firmly in cheek!)
However, I do think it’s funny how everyone is out to lynch Levine. Most of us didn’t really know about or care about the guy up until a few days ago! Besides, I think Levine has become the lightning rod for all the anger about Torre because he has been the most visible member of “the management” in the whole affair. However, I don’t think he was the guy who made the final call on the offer to Torre. So, jerk that he is, I don’t quite understand why everyone wants to lynch him.
I posted a few threads ago, a list of 2007 MLB Managers salaries. Torre made more than the last 4 managers who knocked him out of the play-offs combined. He also made more than the bottom 12 combined. Poor schmoe, he really got screwed ;(
The BrainTrust has stood firm in their stance that is was a unanimous decision and a united front. To single out Levine because of some rumor that he personally dislikes Torre is typical Media BS.
Andrea and Catya – Please kiss and make up, you guys! We need to generate some more positive vibes around here…
From NYYFANS:
Yanks To Pursue Rowand?
A source of mine with Yankee connections had some good info for me today. Much was discussed yesterday in Tampa.
For starters, the Yanks are expected to make “eye-popping” offers to retain Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera before the World Series ends. The team does not want the pair to file for free agency.
Additionally, the Yankees may make a big play for Aaron Rowand. They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana. That’s a huge price, but doesn’t seem out of line to me for the best pitcher in baseball.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ursue.html
Chicago Dave: I think Levine is the lynch-man because basically, you can’t get rid of a Steinbrenner. You can get rid of Levine, but none of the Steinbrenners. So, everyone calls for his head. I was kidding about DeSalvo. BBB and I kid, because we have love for our boys, and we were joking the other day about how Moose threw any hope of being the pitching coach out the window when he went with Chase Wright in the last game of the season instead of one of our boys. Though I do have love for Chase Wright, too. And my reasoning was since Matty doesn’t really have the “stuff” to be a great MLB pitcher (and I will never actually admit this again), he does read a lot, and he knows about baseball. Therefore, if we want to get rid of one of the people that makes us mad, and Levine is really the only one we CAN get rid of (in theory, since we REALLY can’t get rid of any of them in reality), we get rid of him and throw Matty in there
I promise you I’m not a troll
The Yanks should not trade IPK (or Hughes or Chamberlain, for that matter) for ANYONE!!!
Tim we are not alone…check out the earlier threads we have plenty of company. Check out some of the other Blogs and we severely out number the Torre appologists. This Blog should probably be renamed; “The Lohud Torre support Hotline”
Andrea – Yes, but Hank and Hal are apparently part of the “problem” as well. So, even if we could get rid of Levine, the overall effect would be mostly cosmetic, I’m sure…
P.S. – I’m so pscyhed that you finally admitted your boy DeSalvo doesn’t have major league stuff!!! HA!!! I knew if I reasoned with you long enough you would crack!
VOIII, Furthermore I don’t think that Torre’s reaction to the contract offer was spontaneous, I think it was premeditated, but the difference in past incidents of course is that he is now independently wealthy and after years of what he perceived as incremental abuse from GS, he was presented on a silver platter with what Torre thought to be the the perfect scenario to make his exit from the Yankees in full NY media Martydom. GS bites the bullet again like he did when Pettitte spurned the Yankee offer to go to Houston.
Cabrera, Wang and Kennedy for Santana? That is way to high a price for a pitcher who will be a F/A after next season. Take Wang or Kennedy out of the deal and you may have a deal that works. I don’t believe Cash would do all three.
I assume Santana would have to agrer to an extension
Unfortunately Schillings stuff looked pretty good in the 1st.
I see Schilling is doing his thing already. Let’s hope he doesn’t keep it up for the whole game!
By the way, T. Hafner would fit right in with the Yankees…he hasn’t hit a lick in postseason!
TimH When Andy left he thought the Yankees were too slow in reknewing his contract.Remember his father spoke out aganist the Yankees in the papers?
Even so I would not do all three. And I really don’t think Cash will either.
VOIII, I have seen the obscene amounts over the years Torre has made compared to the others, his peers. I believe that GS was entirely within his rights as an owner to offer to Torre the contract that he did, and within his rights as an owner to only extend him only one year. Joe was insulted? I was insulted when I looked Joe’s salary compared to every other manager in baseball for the past 12 years. “It’s not about money”, yeah not anymore because Joe is now independently wealthy, but you can bet he would have accepted this contract 6 years ago without a whimper.
I demand to see at least one full seasons with Hughes, Chamberlain and IPK in the rotation!!! Don’t let me down, Cash!
Speaking of non hitting 1st Baseman, What do you think the Yanks will do about theirs?
LaRussa *Freaks Out*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g64Ae58SvEk
Early this season LaRussa tried to bully a columnist for the St. Louis Post (Bernie Miklasz) for a poem poking fun at the Cubs which was written by a _different_ reporter.
Watch LaRussa backs down when the much, much bigger Miklasz stands up and gets up in his grill.
Stupid days off. Works to the shill’s advantage. Works against Carmona. Sinkerball pitcher being too strong. Sound familiar?
CATYA, Thats not true, I’ve seen interviews with Brian Cashman where he disputed Pettitte’s version of what transpired. Pettitte wanted to go home plain and simple, and took less money to do so, and let the press demonize Steinbrenner. The Yankees were not permitted to present a counter offer to that of the Astros as Pettitte had already made up his mind to return home.
I’m with you Chigago, Let’s keep the three amigos in the rotation. Add wanger and Petitte and we have a solid rotation replace Petitte in 09 with Santana or CC and we get even better. Now how about the Bullpen? I would like to see Affeldt added as a f/a and maybe work Igawa in as a lefty specialist or trade him for a bullpen arm preferable southpaw.
Unbelievable 3 on no-one out already.. Why does he look like Cy Young when the Yankees come to town in the Post Season?
Dr Acula welcome! You should hear Bernie slice Laussa on his radio show.He doesn’t like him. My family leaves in St Louis, the stories they tell about Larussa! Bernie is also a beat writter (St Louis Post Disptch) like Pete.St Louis media think he too anal.
Catya, Cashman said in the interview I saw on WFAN, that he repeatly called the Hendrick brothers (Pettitte’s agents) inquiring when the Yankees could sit down and negotiate with Andy and he was told by them Andy was not ready to do so, but they would contact the Yankees when he was ready and then the Yankees found out Andy had signed with Houston from the news broadcasts. Cashman was on the show Mike and Mad Dog shortly after Andy signed. Andy’s agents, the Hendricks brothers sit on the board of the stadium the Astro play in, by the way.
Chicago Dave: I know the mini-Steins are probably part of the problem and ousting Levine probably be only a cosmetic fix, but since when are Yankee fans 100% reasonable?
You will never hear me admit anything of that nature about my Matty again. And besides, who says a person can’t change or improve? It’s possible! He’s got time!
I’m with you guys, keep the kids, Joba, Hughes and IPK, lets see what we have.
VOIII – I have no idea how to effectively rebuild the bullpen (which I think is absolutely what the Yanks need to do). I think Viz and Farnsworth need to go, but obviously that only adds to the number of arms we need. If I had my druthers, I’d trade for Joakim Soria (with the Royals) for sure…
Who else is availabe on the FA market? I’m not so sure about Affeldt…I think he might disappoint if he comes here.
Andrea – Oh, yes, of course…What true fan is ever 100% reasonable?!
As for DeSalvo…There’s no taking back what you said! So there!!
VOII: dont’ forget Moose is on the roster for 2008. don’t know if you’d put him in your hypothetical rotation or hypothetical bullpen.
TimH Oh I was talking about what his dad said about the reason for Andy’s leaving. I know what Cashman said.
Chicago Dave: He can change!
Carmona will be out of the game after 3 or 4 innings. Game 7, anyone?
If you think Sox fans are insufferable now, just wait until they manage to beat Cleveland (and maybe even win the Series). Oy vey…
How are all of those runs charged to him?
Did the scorers miss the error?
Andrea – Now, I know you love Moose, too, but the guy is WAY past his prime. That’s why we’re not really chatting him up when we talk about next year’s rotation…
I personally hope the Yanks can find someone decent to take Moose’s place. Sorry!!!
thanks Carmona, for your worthlessness. jebus you suck.
Where the hell is the strikezone in this game? Carmona is not getting a single call, its pathetic.
Hard to tell who choked worse, us against Carmona or Carmona against the Sux
well we all know MLB and Fox want the red $ux in the WS for ratings. so i guess they told the umps what they expected as far as a strike zone.
Chicago Dave: I do NOT love Moose. He toys with my emotions. He has abismal starts, and he has amazing starts. But when discussing the 2008 rotation, you can’t just ignore him. Although, with Torre no longer managing, maybe the new manager won’t hesitate to put him into the bullpen. I don’t think he’ll be traded because of his contract and because he probably doesn’t want to be. I was merely reminding VOIII to not forget that he’ll still be on the roster–because I always do when thinking about who’ll be in the rotation next year.
Cleveland again coughing it up – first CC and now Carmona, looking ever so hittable. Amazing . . .
All right, someone has a gun to your head and puts a revolver in your hand. He points to the three men in front of you and he says you have to shoot to kill one of the three or he’s going to kill you instead. Albeit, yhe choice is yours. Of the the three below, who do you choose?
A) Randy Levine
B) Scott Boras
C) Curt Schilling
I think, at the moment, I might actually have to choose ‘A’
right at this VERY moment, I take C, cause we’d then be seeing Gagne an awful lot sooner in this game tonight!
but in general i’d go A as well.
That was a ridiculous home run.
Kill-Schill –
There’s no way the clear choice isn’t still C)!!
Just wait until he talks himself up again in the postgame interview… You’ll definitely change your mind then!
Tim, were you really insulted when you saw Torre’s salary compared to other managers? Did you cry, too? Just a question — how many of those managers won 6 pennants and four world series titles? Just curious, but I guess the number is ZERO.
And I am glad, VOIII, that since other blogs have lots of people attacking Torre, that you think this puts you in the majority. It does not. The fan reaction as reported on the street is overwhelming negative to Joe leaving, and my experience with blogs (this and others) is that the minority is usually the whiniest. Those who agree with the Vaccaro’s and Klapisch’s of the world tend not to post.
They treated him like dirt, and they are paying the price, such as it is, in public perception. It may or may not last. And it makes “our” team look very small.
Isn’t it “Pesky’s Pole” not “The Pesky Pole”?
Kill-schill(ing) I don’t do murder,but if Levine would bless us, and drop dead that will do!
Thanks Chi Dave, I need the encouragement. I think you’re right.
Cleveland is doing their best Yankees impression now…
Good to see another good team can suddenly go lousy in the glare of the postseason!
oh and re: the bullpen next year, I would love to add Affeldt too, but then we’d definitely have to get rid of Farnsworth. He kicked Affledt’s ass pretty bad once, lol, so I don’t see the 2 of them in the same bullpen working out too well. Not that I’m at all averse to getting rid of Farns, but just thought I’d point that out.
CATYA, it wouldn’t be murder because you’d actually have committed the act under duress, thus exonerating you.
It would be a mercy killing for sure!!! HA!!
I hope Garko can back up his comments and they can win it tonight or tomorrow. Nothing better then Victor Martinez walking around the bases after his homerun lol.
God, Schill got a much more generous strike zone and Cleveland hitters flailed at his poor to mediocre sinker.
If I knew where Levine lived, I might have to pull an “All The Right Moves” stun, when Georgevic pours garbage all over Craig T. Nelson’s lawn.
section 344, that was great. He took his time going around.
if I knew where Levine lived, I’d pee on his front lawn and hock a giant loogey in his mailbox.
Kill Schill(ing)But it would bother my conscience to murder someone!
If the red soxs win tonight, they will win tomorrow.
UGH!! I’m ILL
BBB, you’re so lady-like. I can only imagine what you’d do if you knew where T Clip lived!
“They treated him like dirt”
They should have fired him last year. Then all this would not be happening.
if the Sux win tonight I would seriously consider starting Byrd over Westbrook in game 7 if I’m the Indians. Westbrook doesn’t seem like he can handle the pressure. Byrd though, is one of those ‘never underestimate the crafty veteran’ guys.
Andrea: lol, if only I knew where T-Clip lived! I would definitely send him one of those singing “you’re awesome”-o-grams. Matty too!
Victor Martinez should have called to the bat boy for a deck chair right after he hit the homer. Then he should have sat in the chair staring out to where he hit the homer for 5 minutes. Then he should have slowly gotten up, folded the chair, given it back to the bat boy, and walked (and I mean a SLOW walk) around the bases backward with one arm raised in the air.
BBB: I actually found T Clip on facebook. I’m pretty sure it’s actually him too, cause it’s all just people from whatever that school is he went to in Florida, and a few baseball related people. You should pretend you know nothing about baseball and you’re friending him based on interests
Andrea – So, you’re a stalker now, eh?!
BBFan,
You are right. They could have fired him last year, or even this year. There were ways to do that which would have been acceptable and honorable.
But they chose a method that was an obvious ploy, designed to try and fool fans and non-fans. It has not worked because the sports writers and commentators know BS when they see it. They may have loved or hated Joe, they may or may not wish he was back, but regardless they knew he had been treated terribly. There is little disagreement about this among commentators because it seems obvious. Even the ones who think Joe was not insulted cannot explain the whole “incentives” clause with a straight face. What other manager with his level of success, no matter how you define it, has had that type of contract?
People keep saying his prior contracts had some types of incentives. Does anyone know what they were?
actually, catya the law wouldn’t consider it murder. Because it’s not premeditated.
I concede, it might bother you to kill someone.
But would you sacrifice your life to avert a guilty conscience? If so, you’re more heroic than I.
But it’s just a frivolous law school hypothetical but I do despise Curt Schilling, whatever the hyperbole of my moniker.
Wow T-Clip has a facebook?! That’s funny cause I actually read somewhere that he had to delete his myspace after his first MLB start, as everyone was inundating his page with tales of his awesomeness, but I guess facebook offers a bit more anonymity. I don’t have an account with them but maybe I will now
Kill Schill(ing)
Awh what’s a good exaggeration every now and then.
Kill Schill(ing) Did you know Curt really loves the Yankees
so much,his son’s middle name is Gherig.The nerve of him!
Actually Chicago he should have held his arms high and stood at home for 5 seconds that walked to first with his arms held high.
Chicago Dave: I’m not a stalker. Just incredibly bored. And I didn’t feel like writing my thesis.
I thought Schilling’s son’s first name was Gherig? Shows how much I know. He’s very dedicated to trying to find a cure for ALS. I don’t get how someone who’s such a jackass can be such a humanitarian in another respect.
BBB: Facebook is different because unless you’re a “friend” you can’t actually look at the person’s page. You can look at little snippets of who they’re friends with, though, so I could see that all of his friends are from that Florida school, and what their names were.
I just baked an apple pie
But I still have 6 apples left and I don’t know what to do with them.
I just realized I spelled Gehrig wrong. I’m a jerk.
How the Hell did that bum shut us down!! JESUS HE SUCKS!
jennifer – You can send a pie (or two) my way!!! I LOVE a good apple pie!!!
Andrea –
Lou is looking down on you sternly from heaven right now…
Shame on you!
God I want to throw up watching this game.
FOX is breathing a huge sigh of relief right now…At least they’ll get the Sox in the Series to help ratings. I wonder if the fix was in all along? (kidding)
I make a hell of an apple pie, and chocolate chip cookies.
I make a heck of an apple pie and chocolate chip cookies.
Oh there it is, I’m way to impatient.
If the soxs make the World Series, they are going to roll all over the Rockies. The Rockies haven’t played in 10 days! UGH
jennifer – OK, now you’re just torturing me! Chocolate chip cookies are also a huge favorite of mine!!!
Are you married? If so, your husband is one lucky guy!! I have yet to date a woman who can really cook (sigh)…
(I know it’s sexist to expect a woman to cook these days, but, hey, that’s the way I grew up!)
it was a typo! I swear!
Andrea – OK, Lou says he forgives you now!
I can’t cook really although I do make a mean grilled pizza. I’m more of a baker. I’ll kill you even more. I make awesome an rainbow cookie!
You have to realize Carmona pitched the game of his life against the Yanks. He simply isn’t THAT good.
jennifer – OK, so what have I done to make you want to torture me so?! Come on, have some mercy!
(I think you owe me a pie or some cookies after all of this!!)
Yep Carmona is the one who blew 2 games back to back against the soxs last year. I don’t know why I even thought he would be okay against the soxs.
Welp, the Indians have basically 0 chance in this series now.
My brother LOVES rainbow cookies. He would probalby consider dumping his fiance for you
Ahh, those scappy Indians…The dream simply couldn’t last!
Chicago Dave,In that series the Yankees weren’t good either.
Andrea – Hands off!!! I’ve got dibs here! HEHEHEHE!!!
Why isn’t Youkilis crying now?
This defense is NOT good.
CATYA – Yes, I agree. The Yankee hitters really helped make Carmona look much better than he is…
You are still watching the game? I turned it off after the Caroma couldn’t get anyone out in the first.
The Indians just can’t handle the pressure right now.
fine, Chi Dave–she can just teach my brother’s fiance how to make the rainbow cookies! She’s all yours!
jennifer – Less posting and more baking (my pie/cookies)!!!
Andrea – Thank you for being so understanding. Besides, your brother already has someone…No need to be greedy!
uuuugh, I’m glad I shut off the game when I did.
Andrea: So if I made a Facebook, T-Clip would have to add me to his page based on a common interest before I got to see his whole page? Hmm I wonder what he’s interested in. I can just see myself now sending an email, “I dig underwater basket-weaving. Do you like underwtaer basket-weaving too?”
Jennifer: I vote you throw your remaining apples in the general vicinity of Randy Levine’s cranium!
I did say at the beginning of the series that the Indians would win in 7 games…guess that can still come true!
Although I also said the Indians would make the WS only to be defeated again by Livan Hernandez, and THAT didn’t happen. but I also said Fausto Carmona would turn out to be the next Jaret Wright..THAT could still happen!
BBB – Unfortunately, I think that tomorrow night’s game will be a laugher for the Sox as well…
BBB: Yes, he would have to want to be your friend and approve you and be one of your friends on facebook. But he’s totally into underwater basket-weaving. You can tell.
I hope the Red Sox ask Beckett to come in in as a reliever tomorrow and he ends up giving up the winning run to the Indians.
Who is pitching tomorrow for the soxs?
I could go either way with tomorrow’s game. I think Dice-BB will suck, but it’s very possible that Jake Westbrook could suck worse.
I’m taking this off of the bleacher creatures bulletin
Joba was signing autos in Summit NJ today, I heard about it after it happend.
* Me: Hey Joba, the guys from the bleachers say whats up
Joba: Oh yea? Nice! I love those guys. I wore my shirt the other day.
Me: Like this one? (I was wearing the facade section 39 tee)
Joba: (looks up) Yea, thats the one! (hands me the ball)
Me: Thanks man, good seeing you
Joba: Take care man
Cool guy!!
T-Clip should weave the Indians a basket underwater. Maybe it would help!
BBB – Agreed. Westbrook will out-suck Matsuzaka.
Disappointed in the Captain:
Torre Fallout: Paging Jeter … Hello? Derek?
Yankee Captain’s Silence On Issue Perplexes Many Fans
Reporting
Kristine Johnson
NEW YORK (CBS) ―
They have been together for the wins and have suffered together through agonizing losses.
But so far Derek Jeter, the longtime Yankee captain, has said nothing publicly about the fate of Joe Torre, his beloved manager, a silence that some fans say is positively deafening.
“He’s the captain, he should open his mouth,” one fan said. “That’s why he’s getting paid the big bucks.”
Added another: “He should say something about it. It just shows indifference and I don’t think that’s right.”
Even Terry Francona, the manager of the archrival Boston Red Sox, predicted accolades would come from all corners.
“I think you’re gonna hear people in all areas of baseball say very, very kind, respectful things about Joe in the next couple of days … and they’re all deserved,” Francona said.
But so far, there hasn’t been a peep from Jeter.
“He should step up and say something,” one fan said.
But not everyone is critical of the silence, given the touchiness of the situation.
“I think he ought to keep his mouth shut,” another fan said. “He’ll screw it up for (Don) Mattingly if he doesn’t.”
Torre said some players did reach out to him privately, but Jeter’s agent wouldn’t say if the Yankees’ shortstop was one of them. When it comes to the captain, the lid is on. No one will even say where he is. On the East Side, his doorman was mum.
“Haven’t seen him, don’t know him,” he said.
Jeter, whose feats on the field are legendary, is almost as well known for his off-field exploits, and even some critical of Jeter for not speaking out say simply, the dazzling Yankee legend can do no wrong.
“He didn’t (speak out), but he’s my favorite player anyway,” a fan said.
CBS 2 HD checked the blog on Jeter’s Web site but it had no mention of the Torre situation. And Jeter’s agent would only say that there would be no statement Friday.
jennifer – So, how long do you think it will be before Joba has his own car dealership somewhere in NY/NJ? I see it happening in the near future!!!
Question is…What company’s cars would he sell?
Yeah Jeter needs to say something!! He is the captain afterall.
Oh and if we are in need of an outfielder, Bubba Crosby is a free agent. LOL
HMMM Good question. I don’t know what he’d sell. Maybe volkswagon bugs.???
Chi Dave – that’s why I wish Cleveland would take a good long look at starting Byrd instead. I think he could beat Dicey. Westbrook seems like he will choke.
Damn it! How do people find out about these signings?
10-1. Thats it get the nails out and put it in the Indians coffin.
oh my god I would send Wang plus blank for Santana no problem. Wang is a number 3 at best no matter his record.
booooo, jennnifer, BOOOOOOOO.
Maybe (hopefully, probably) Jeter is just weighing his words right now and will talk soon. Maybe he is busy trying to convince Jorge to stay!
jennifer – I see him selling Hummers. It’s kind of like people and their dogs, you know? It’s the whole physical resemblance thing…
This red sox rally is really depressing me. I’m trying to look on the bright side that if sox wins the WS this year, they may not feel as much of a need to spend $30mil a year to sign Arod.
Now THIS is the Indians team that we beat 6 times. Shame on Joe for falling asleep at the switch in Game 2 and not pulling his team off the field. There’s no reason we should have been beat by this team. None!
at least if they win the WS we can say “who buys championships?”
Dee-
There is no bright side to them winning. None at all!
It’ll equal another 12 months of listening to them and their fans.
I know!! If only I would have read the message board last night!! UGH!!! And it was FREE!!
Why would Derek mouth off against the team’s management now? He is still under contract! Besides, I think he realizes that if he reams the Yanks for firing Torre, he will then face questions all next year about 1) whether he really supports the new manager, and 2) whether the Torre firing will affect his future desire to re-sign with the Yanks (when the time comes).
eff them, let their bandwagoning punk azzes talk. for an entire 12 months, even. we will see who has the last laugh when we win another one with OUR OWN PLAYERS.
jennifer: what message board?
I love Derek Jeter as much as anybody, but if he doesn’t come out with some sort of statement he’s no captain. Thurman Munson would have had the cajones to speak about it.
Jimbo, I just had no idea Torre won 6 pennants and 4 WS titles, thanks for the education.
2007:
Joe Torre- 7.5 million with 1 million dollar bonus for winning the World Series.
Clint Hurdle- .08 mil
Eric Wedge- 1.025 mil
Terry Francona- 1.65 mil
Mike Scioscia- 1.75 million
Jim Leyland- 2 mil.
Bobby Cox-3 Mil.
Tony LaRussa- 2.8 mil.
John Gibbons- 0.5 mi
Lou Pinella- 3.75 mil
Ozzie Guillen- 1.1 mil
Willie Randolph- 1.4 mil.
Ron Gardenshire- 1.2 mil
Grady Little- 0.6 mil
Bud Black- 0.9 mil.
Great now we’re gonna have to rely on Colorado to beat Boston.
I’m sure Jetes will say something eventually. He is probably just waiting a bit for the smoke to clear and even to mellow out about it himself. He loves Joe more than anyone, he is probably super pissed about what went down and doesn’t want to say something he might regret.
Not good, now the Indian pen is getting over worked, great job by Carmona.
Colorado will do it – it’s destiny. Go Rockies!
Jeter’s out banging “A” list hot chicks right now.
Who’s gonna be managing him next year is probably the furthest thing from his mind.
I wonder if Girardi gets the job if he will start calling him Mr. Girardi?
I just read that Joe G contacted Paul O’Niell to be on his staff if he were manager!!
Paulie for hitting coach!
If you think Jeter is going to publicly bad mouth George Steinbrenner, don’t hold your breath waiting. He’s much smarter than that.
* Kay also said that Girardi said that he’d make Manny and Ortiz eat some dirt after spending the last 5 years comfortably anchored in the batter’s box.
jennifer: what message board was the Joba signing on?
Jennifer-
Just curious, where did you see that? (O’Neil is my favorite Yankee from the 90’s)
Where did you read that jennifer?
Oh and I wasn’t really paying attention, but did I notice Girardi wasn’t there for the pre=game tonight on FOX?
Bob–I think you’re right. I don’t think Girardi was there for the pre-game.
Andrea – I read about the Joba signing on Phil Hughes message board.
Dave and Bob, I read about the Joe G thing on nomass’s message board, they said Joe said it on Mike Kay’s show.
Bob- very interesting that he didn’t do the game. I guess he is preping for the interview,and doesn’t want to have to answer any questions.
I don’t think it’s about bad mouthing but since he’s the Captain fans want to at least hear him state something as if “he will miss joe and wish him well”. To avoid calls knowing he’s the Captain and people just want a word for him. All the reports are about him partying with the women or complaining about parking. He knows people want to hear something. It appears that Joe hasn’t heard from him either. He’s the captain of the team and his voice means everything even if it’s a few words saying he’ll miss the guy. He’s the leader of that team and even Michael Jordan expressed his concern when the head coach was with Chicago having problems before his retirement. Jeets is still the leader of the team who everyone looks up to.
Phil Hughes has a message board now? Damn it! I can’t keep up with all of this! Would you mind letting me know what it is?
DMan, ARGH…don’t remind me:(
Is there anything else on youtube of Sox punks doing embarrassing things I can watch to distract myself from this sad game? Like Youkilis having trouble finding Massachusetts on a map or something?
And on another topic, trying to be as objective as possible, is Ellsbury really that great?? They make him sound like the second coming.
He’s had one since last year!!
http://philiphughes.net/
I suck at message boards.
whew….
Wang’s site:
http://web.40chienmingwang.com/index.jsp
Jete comments are always predictable and generic. I expect him to say something like:”I have a tone of expect for Joe, he’s done amazing things here, and I know he’ll continue to do great things where he’s headed next. Our focus is to look ahead, whoever is our next manager our focus stays that same and that’s to play our best and win.”
Respect for Joe, not expect:-)
Ton of respect for Joe, not “tone of expect”!
This stupid game is making killing my brain cells.
Drive 4-5,
you right. Jeter is agreat player but as a team captain, he sucks. He is no leader. Understand please I think the world of Jeter as a ballplayer. But I question his willingness to take one for the team.. A-Rod has more range as a SS than Jeter. Why Jeter, for the sake of the team, does’t move to 1st base.
Cano has the range and arm to play 3rd base. It would be easier for the Yankees to find a second baseman than a 3rd baseman
Why is Borowski in the game? That doesn’t seem to make much sense
RDFI, Now that we lost our 3rd base coach to Seattle. Who will teach him how to play 3rd? Iwish jeter would move to 1st, agreed.
Because he doesn’t want to pitch him in a game they are winning. He sucks.
We didn’t lose our third base coach. He hasn’t left.
Joba will be signing again. When I find out where I’ll let you guys know.
Jennife,I hope your right,but the writings on the wall.There will sadly, be some Torre fallout.
jennifer: you better! I have to tell him about the time he waved at me because I scared the crap out of him! He’s signing at a last licks ice cream store out on Long Island on Nov 18, but I tried to go to a Shelley Duncan signing at one of those stores, and the lady was crazy and tried to charge me twice the price of what it would cost. and Joba costs $150 normally there, so I’m afriad.
Pena is just a minority interview, if Mattingly or Girardi show any hesitation, or make any demands that Randy Levine does not like ie: coaching staff, Bobby Valentine will be the next manager of the Yankees…
Jimbo,
Are we still rehashing the Torre record? I suppose he did it all by himself did he? Give me an example of a brilliant move by Torre that caused the Yankees to win a post season game….Don’t even say Mo to the Pen, because that was Stick Michael’s idea. I am so tired of resting on the 12 post season laurels…The Incredible amount of talent that was dropped in his lap made him a genious…Give me an example of him taking over a mediocre team and turning them into a winner….The ground work for the Yankee dynasty was layed by Stick and Buck…They are the architects and the one’s who restored pride to Pinstripes. Torre had the incredible fortune of hitching a ride on an unstopible force. To say that he was the only Manager who could have done so is complete speculation, and a disservice to many other good managers. Zimmer was as responsible for the Yankee’s success in the 90s as Torre. ditto Mel…both of whom by the way were Steinbrenner hires…Torre is a true Gentleman and as media savvy as Ron Reagan was. He could never come off as any thing but a victim in this case because of that. However that does not make it so. He was treated poorly at times by George, yes… So were almost anyone who has taken George’s money and generosity…George has always been short tempered and short sighted when it comes to his trigger finger. He was not in this case as he was talked into keeping Torre two years running. He just could not swallow rewarding Torre with a contract that reflects a champion. Torre has not been one for seven years. Once the magic of a once in a life time roster wore off, Torre was left with nothing but his managing skills. These skills were not adequate to acheive continued success without Steinbrenner buying every availible allstar. Steinbrenner’s continued pursuit of rings placed Torre in a situation where his record and reputation would become inflated. This is not meant as an attack on Torre but as a defense of an ownership that has delivered over and over again for it’s patrons.
Viking Coach, Who ever takes the job will be stepping into a lion’s den,dealing with this new mgmt composite.(Levine Hal and Hank!
Dee,
Unfortunately, Ellsbury looks like a real find for the BOSOX.The kid’s got skills and guts. Think Sizemore or better.
Bowa said today how much he loved it in NY and how great the Yankees treated him. He doesn’t know if he will be back because he has to wait to see who the manager is. Cash told him it is up to who ever the next manger is.
Bowa said today how much he loved it in NY and how great the Yankees treated him. He doesn’t know if he will be back because he has to wait to see who the manager is. Cash told him it is up to who ever the next manger is.
I heard no way in hell would bobby be the manager.
Sox fan leave please. no ones’s interested in what you have to say. you being here will only jinx your team and you will be in tears
Oh Lord Another one!
Wish I could be more delusional but don’t think cleveland stands a chance for game 7 in fenway.
Is it true that Joe will be joining the Fox booth for the WS?
Thank’s soxfan, I did not think I could get through the night with out a troll reminding me how intelligent RedSox fans are. Should I bet the ranch? How about my kid’s college fund?
Go ROCKIES!!!! Now I wish we didn’t win the all star game…
At least that one labels him/herself as a Sox Fan and doesn’t pretend to be something else.
Jennifer, I hope Bowa and Pena stay as coaches. I like the work they do with the kids. I think they’re good for them.
Jennifer, in addressing you, I was basically saying, I hope what you heard Bowa say was right and I hope he wasn’t just saying that to shut people up…I wasn’t address you to be weird
That sox dude should get his head out of the oven. I don’t see anyone posting about the soxs for the past hour. He should get over himself.
He sounded very geninue. I believe he really wants to return, but it isn’t up to him.
Bottom line, the Yankees need to interview and pick a manager by the end of next week. Get that taken care of and move on to Mo and Posada. Once they do that everyone will forget about the whole Joe thing.
In fact I’ve started to change my opionion on it. One thing that Joe said in his press conference that wasn’t true was. “if they wanted me to manage i’d still be manager”.
They offered him a contract he declined. Joe only wanted to come back on his terms just as the Yankees only wanted him back on their terms. He didn’t lose his job. And as the Nypost blog pointed out. Do you think someone who lost their 60,000 a year job really wants to hear Joe crying about making 5 million a year?
Tomorrow night should be a slug-fest in half stadium, fat toad II vs Jake Westbrook.
Tomorrow sets up a potential embarassment for the sox. Let’s say the 100 million dollar wunderkind from the far east blows it…They will be hear about that one for a long time…I have to pin my hopes on something now that the glorious Torre era is over
Tim and VOIII,
I am not rehashing Torre’s record. I think it speaks for itself. And I could list many moves that Torre made in the post-season to help win games (Boggs PH in Atlanta in 1996 is an easy one). And just to answer a silly question or two, name ANY manager that took a mediocre team and made them champs. It does not happen in baseball, the 162 game season does not allow it. I never said Torre was the only one who could take the Yanks all the way, but he DID do it.
I grow bored already because you argue without logic.
Can you prove that Zim’s presence really made a difference? Of course not. And please, don’t pretend Stott was a great pitching coach, because as well-loved as he is, the record suggests not.
The only point we fans of Torre are making is that the offer was a joke. Insulting. Ridiculous. Lots of very smart people think that. Very few say that it was not at least disrespectful.
Most of what you say is just conjecture, completely lacking in relevance. You offer no facts or examples to back up your opinions. Buying every available all-star? Really?
Who cares how much the other managers made when what Joe wanted was a couple of years? And dont’ tell me that a “take it or leave it” contract is fair or something to defend.
I am sure we are all fans, but you keep trying to defend the front office in ways that make no sense. Are you in Big Stein’s will or something?
The Yankess business people screwed up. Torre made sure his story was told. So now we move on, but now we have Boras saying this affects what Alex wants to do, and Mo says something similar. Maybe they are posing, maybe not. But the reason is that the Yankees brain-donors caused a self-inflicted wound.
Jimbo
When the owner of a company pays his employee three times (close to 4) the going rate year in and out compared to what his competition (Boston-Francona) is paying their comparable employee, I think the owner of the company has a ligitimate argument when he feels he is not getting the results he desires. I think Joe was the best man for the job, however I feel he should have accepted the offer, there are two sides to this argument, Joe had no problem accepting the last contract knowing he was the highest paid manager in ALL of sports. How do think Steinbrenner feels watching Francona in the ALDS making 1.65 this year, when he has a payroll of 200 million and a manager he is compensating much more than any of his peers at 7.5 million, including the 500,000 dollar increase/raise Torre was given before this season began and a bonus offer of 1 million THIS year (2007) if he makes the world series? And how did that incentive work out? Is there another manager other than Torre you see that was offered that stipulation/perk in 2007? How does the offered 5 mil with 3 mil in perks stack up with this list of Torre’s peers in the game?
VOIII, I hope you’re right. And that’s two birds in one stone too – a big hit for the sox and one for Boras.
Can someone actually tell me, in a non-nostalgic frame of mind, if they think Mattingly or Girardi would be a better manager? It seems as though those two are the two that the Yankees are looking at. Everyone seems to be leaning toward one or the other based on who they’d prefer because of who they were a bigger fan of.
Tim
If we believe Torre, it was the years, not the money. Pretend the contract was for 2 years, $10 million, with or without incentives. Does he sign?
But to address your numbers, did he deserve a paycut? With that run of playoff appearences? It seems you guys buy into the “Win the WS or you are a Loser” mentality. Certainly Joe deserves some of the credit for the string of playoff appearances, but it seems that VOIII gives him none.
The insult was “make the World Series or you are gone”. I would guarantee no other manager has a contract with that clause.
I’m a Yankee fan, I was for retaining Joe, but I can see both sides of this argument. I feel Joe has not had the pitching from 2005-2007, but then he also has to accept some culpability for the collapse in 2004 and the dead bats every post season since. Look what the Sox have done to Sabathia and Carmona, the Yankees did lead the league in offense, hits and home runs, not the Sox. Joe does put a good face on the organization, but then so did Tom Landry with the Cowboys before he was replaced by Jimmy Johnson. It’s business.
Jimbo,
Are you serious? Using one of the greatest hitters the game has ever seen to pinch hit is a stroke of genious? Stevie wonder could have seen that one coming…As for Manager’s turning mediocre teams into winners? (I did not say champs) how about the 2000 Mets and Bobby V? the 81 A’s and Billy Martin? want champs how about The 2006 Cardinals and Tony Larussa? The 90 reds and Pinella? the 2003 Marlins and Lefebre? check the records before the season B4 on all of these teams. None of them were layden with anything more than mediocre talent. Point is that Torre never came close to leading a team with less than great talent to a division title or even the play-offs. Oh I forgot the Braves made the playoffs once under his charge I believe. As far as Steinbrenners will…Do you think he reads this blog? I may have a shot
Tim,
Absolutely. By the way, you make lots of good points. The next beer is on me.
At the base of 5 million dollars Joe was still the highest paid manager in the game with 3 mil. in incentive clauses. Look at the contracts of all the other manager in the game, none of them have anything close to what Torre was offered. Torre received a RAISE last off-season of 500,000 and an incentive bonus of 1 mil. for winning the series. If Torre had accepted this contract there would be no news. Torre has been paid at an exhorbitant rate much much higher than any manager ever has in the history of the game, and Steinbrenner’s generosity is unparalleled yet he is chastised because Torre refused his latest contract. It’s a joke.
I’m more of a fan of Donnie’s, but prefer Girardi for the job. Giardi obviously impressed enough people in the 1 year that he managed the marlins. I love listening to him on YES, seems very strong with in-game strategies and insight on how to take advantage of players’ unique talent and personality beyond the obvious. No idea about Mattingly’s coaching style, except the impression that he’s kind of a “Torre Light”.
Andrea,
Here are some Joe Girardi positives. .Not that Mattingly doesn’t possess some of these same attributes
1.is a very good and decent guy
2.played in NY
3.is a very smart and articulate person.
4.is probably the most stat (saber) friendly guy amongst all the candidates
5.has managing experience
6.believes strongly in baseball fundamentals.
7.was a catcher.
8.manages an aggressive national league style
Joe Torre Manager
3 years/$19.2M (2005-07)
rejected offer to return 10/18/07: 1 year/$5M (2008), plus $8M 2009 vesting option (guaranteed with 2008 AL pennant)
performance bonuses: $1M each for reaching playoffs, ALCS & World Series
3 years/$19.2M (2005-07)
signed extension 4/04
05:$6.1M, 06:$6.1M, 07:$7M
$1M bonus with a World Series victory
2007 salary increased to $7.5M
extension also includes 6-year consulting agreement
3 years/$16.5M (2002-04), plus bonuses
04:$5M
2 years/$6M (2000-01)
00:$3M, 01:$3M
3 years/$2.8M (1997-99)
97:$0.8M, 98:$1M, 99:$1M
signed 2/97, reworking final year of previous deal
2 years/$1.05M (1996-97)
96:$0.5M, 97:$0.55M
hired 11/95, replacing Buck Showalter
Clay: is managing an NL style really a plus in the AL?
It would be refreshing to play some National League style ball if Girardi becomes manager. I’m not saying that the Yankees should bunt more often, but I would like to see them put runners in motion more. Putting runners in motion seems to be a must when Jeter and Posada are grounding into so many double plays.
VOIII,
First, I am going to bed. I am too old to argue any more. But you proved my point. I have no intention of pulling the data for all those teams, but to say that the 2006 Cards were mediocre is silly. The record may have been less than desireable, but it was good enough to make the playoffs, and anyone can see that their pitching and that line-up was very strong. But who cares? It is, as I said, IRRELEVANT to the situation with Torre. Joe was asked to manage a very good team in an impossible city. He did it with extraordinary success. And for that they tell him: you get to come back only if you make the WS. That is the insult and the disgrace.
As for using Boggs, it was genius. Lots of folks think so. Why was he still on the bench at that point? By your “logic” nothing Joe did would merit an accolade.
Look at these contracts of Joe’s peers, these people have had some success too, and have been in the game for awhile. Joe has been compensated by GS at unheard of amounts. He should have accepted this new contract. 5 mil. with 3 mil in incentives is still much more than anyone else makes or has ever made in the history of MLB (except for Joe).
2007
Joe Torre- 7.5 million with 1 million dollar bonus for winning the World Series.
Clint Hurdle- .08 mil
Eric Wedge- 1.025 mil
Terry Francona- 1.65 mil
Mike Scioscia- 1.75 million
Jim Leyland- 2 mil.
Bobby Cox-3 Mil.
Tony LaRussa- 2.8 mil.
John Gibbons- 0.5 mi
Lou Pinella- 3.75 mil
Ozzie Guillen- 1.1 mil
Willie Randolph- 1.4 mil.
Ron Gardenshire- 1.2 mil
Grady Little- 0.6 mil
Bud Black- 0.9 mil.
Andrea,
I know it the personnel was different, but it sure worked well in 1996.
Jimbo,
I will give Torre credit for the post season run when you give him some blame for the ridiculous collapses the last 5 years. I am not saying he doesn’t deserve all the accolades. He does deserve them but to say he’s the reason for the success is a slap in the face to all the hard work done by the front office and the incredible talent of the players. To crucify the Yankee brass because they wanted to pay Torre fair market value, is harsh and unfair. To turn Torre into a martyr is a joke…
Jimbo, It is Steinbrenner’s team, Torre is his employee, if he felt that one more year after 12 is enough, he is entitled to it. Whether you or anyone else likes it or no is beside the point, he felt Joe was not performing up to the standards of 7.5 million dollars per year. I agree.
Almost every move Joe made in the 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000 postseason turned to gold. It wasn’t all luck or Don Zimmer, the man deserves some credit. He managed some great ball games.
Good night Jimbo…Boggs was on the bench because Charlie Hayes was having a good post season from the right side. Boggs getting a hit at that point is more a credit to Boggs than Torre. The 2006 Cards pitching staff with Jeff Weaver and Suppan as the ancors was mediocre at best. Pulholz was the only bat on that team worth mentioning. Torre, I submit would not have gotten that team out of the first round.
Poor Joe asked to work for a half of a year for 5 mil. with 3 mil. in incentives. Maybe he’ll get a better deal doing commercials for Bigelow Tea.
Tim, VOIII, and the 10% who don’t believe Joe was treated poorly, you make some good points, but I agree with the 90% who understand what went down here.
Tony LaRussa all the years he has been in the game 2.8 mil per year and he just re-upped. He’s disrepected too.
Wade Boggs walked, he didn’t get a hit.
Clay: I see what you’re saying. Point well made.
Clay,
Torre looked like a genious because those players had an uncanny knack for the impossible.
I suppose Torre told him to walk? the guy had an incredible eye. Any manager worth his uniform would have done the same.
I understand perfectly well what went down, I’ve watched many good managers come and go with the Yankees, Stengel, Houk, Martin (many times) Pinella and Schowalter and none of them were compensated as well as Joe Torre was by George Steinbrenner.
For everyone knocking Santana and for some who said Beckett’s better, silly silly. I think it’s fair to say this was Beckett’s best season(and he deserves the Cy Young award) and Santana’s least good since he became a league-wide name. Ok, so we’ll put Santana’s down year against Beckett’s Cy Young. Not knocking Beckett, just showing how good Santana is.
Beckett: 200.7IP, 3.27 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 194K, 40BB, 189H, 17 HR
Santana: 219IP, 3.33 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 235K, 52BB, 183H, 33 HR
Best year vs. a down year and Santana still led in IP, WHIP, K, and H. Not too shabby. Santana’s 34 HR total isn’t even that dramatic. He’s given up at least 20 each of the past 3 years. He just happens to give up a large percentage of his runs(and there aren’t many) via the long ball. In my opinion, he’s still the best pitcher in baseball.
It doesn’t have that much to do with compensation. Joe even said that if he manages somewhere else, he would have absolutely no problem taking a lower salary.
The point is this, if you go into a room, and the people in the room are unwilling to commit to more than one year, then they really don’t want you and don’t value you and it’s time to move on.
Oh yeah that walk was off of Steve Avery, a name that I haven’t heard in a while.
“The point is this, if you go into a room, and the people in the room are unwilling to commit to more than one year, then they really don’t want you and don’t value you and it’s time to move on.”
Yes it is…That is my point. The Yankees were willing to pay the man for one more season and he chose not to accept. He made a choice to move on and so did the Yankees, what is the problem with that? Why the venom twds the Steinbrenners?
I am not going to peruse through 300+ comments to see if anyone saw this already so here it is:
Hey Pete – what’s your take on these rumors?
For starters, the Yanks are expected to make “eye-popping” offers to retain Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera before the World Series ends. The team does not want the pair to file for free agency.
Additionally, the Yankees may make a big play for Aaron Rowand. They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana. That’s a huge price, but doesn’t seem out of line to me for the best pitcher in baseball.
night all, I am done with the Torre stuff, from now on it’s about the players and the new manager…Yeah yeah I know…Thank God
VOIII – I think the point is – a one year contract essentially makes him a lame duck manager. It also shows that the ownership has no respect for him whatsoever by giving him an incentive laden contract. How can you expect your players to respect you when your own boss doesn’t?
sunny615,Who’s suppose to play center field if Leche is apart of a trade?
The reason why Jetes won’t talk to the NY Media especially The NY Post. CHeck out the picture then check out what’s written
under it.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....hoto28.htm
Tim, You are soo funny! It’s great, Jeter confused with Arod,Beautiful.
That’s a ridiculous point, I’ve heard once too many. Every one stops respecting Torre because it could his last year? Oh and and by the way he is the highest paid Mgr. in the game. Sure that makes sense.
How can you expect your players to respect you when your own boss doesn’t?
Hey media NEWSFLASH -
FIVE MILLION PLUS THREE MILLION IN INCENTIVES FOR A GUY WHO HAS FAILED TO LIVE UP TO HIS ULTIMATE GOAL FOR SEVEN STRAIGHT SEASONS IS NOT INSULTING.
tORRE is lucky he recieved any sort of offer after losing in the alds for a third straight yr to a team that has less than half the payroll the yanks have and certainly dont look nearly as good on paper. Firing joe did not happen he was offered a contract and turned it down that is hardly letting go of the manager, maybe torre had enuff with the management maybe he was tired of being considered a failure after winnning 12 straight seasons and coming back to win the wildcard after a 21-29 start. Either way the media certainly has a strange way of twisting around the facts to make torre look like a poor old man who lost his job for no good reason. The yanks had every right to decrease his salary when he continually fails to reach his ultimate goal and that of the organization. Its strange that when he succeeds no one seems to have a problem with him making almost triple the second highest payed manager. Yet, when he fails, everyone thinks its disgusting to make five million for one of the greatest jobs on the planet. No sane person would sympathize with joe. The media is completely bias and making the organization look evil becuz they wanted to go in a different direction after not wining the world series for the better part of a decade. Get some perspective – Pete i dunno what ur problem is but when we lost the alds again, u seemed to think the yanks were most certainly going to let torre go. After they offered him an extremely reasonable and even very generous offer and he turned it down all of a sudden the yanks are some sort of evil organization with a hidden agenda. I dunno wat u r talking about any more, Doesnt anyone see that Donnie baseball is joe torre with a different face and name. He is going to bring no changes to this team – lets give girardi a shot = he wins manager of the year and all of a sudden he cant get another job because management hated him for some reason. I dont get it. If he can make a team with a twenty million dollar payroll look like playoff contenders lets see what he can do with a 200 million dollar team with some of the best players in the sport.
eff them, let their bandwagoning punk azzes talk. for an entire 12 months, even. we will see who has the last laugh when we win another one with OUR OWN PLAYERS.
Your own players BBB? Like arod, abreu, damon, and giambi? Do you actually read what you write? Or were you being sarcastic? Or are you really young? Or really old? Come on man, I gotz to know!
Not to quibble, but A-Rod, Abreu, Damon, and Giambi are just 4 of many players. And chnaces are most of next year’s roster will have to come from within because of lack of available worthwhile free agents.
BBB is just an optimistic fan, like the rest of us. We want to see our kids do well, and we have faith in our young pitchers that are likely to be in the rotation.
No worries. I’m still willing to bet 70% of the team will be home grown, unless something drastic happens on the market.
wait…I takethat 70% back. I underestimate how much of the roster the bullpen takes up.
“They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana. That’s a huge price, but doesn’t seem out of line to me for the best pitcher in baseball.”
THAT’S A STUPID IDEA !
I dunno, I’d have to agree with the MLBrumors guy on that one. Looking back would you rather have had Wang or Santana in those two games in the ALDS? The rumor also stated (that I neglected to paste) that the Yanks would pursue Rowand to fill the Melky gap.
Here’s Rowarnd’s stats for 2007:
2007 Season Stats
SPLIT______G____AB___R____H___2B__3B__HR__RBI___SB___BA____OBP___SLG
Season___161__612_105__189__45__0___27___89___6___.309__.374__.515
That didn’t come out too good:
2007 Season Stats
SPLIT ++++G++AB+++R+++H++2B++3B+++HR++RBI++SB+++BA+++OBP+++SLG
Season++161+612++105+189++45++0+++27+++89++6 ++.309+++.374++.515
last time
2007 Season Stats
G 161
AB 612
R 105
H 189
2B 45
3B 0
HR 27
RBI 89
SB 6
BA . 309
OBP . 374
SLG .515