Today in The Journal News
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- October
- 23
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Joe Girardi was first up in the interview process yesterday and he explained what he learned from getting fired in Florida.
Meanwhile, Joe Torre will be on HBO’s Real Sports tonight at 9 p.m. He’ll be interviewed by Bob Costas.
Interesting piece in the Times today as Randy Levine accuses some of his harshest critics of not being objective.
It’s interesting how quickly the organization has changed. Just a few months ago it seemed like Brian Cashman reported only to George Steinbrenner. Cashman’s power matched that of any GM in the game.
Now we have Levine making comments about baseball matters and Hank Steinbrenner issuing a proclamation a day. It’s certainly their right. But it had literally been decades since Hank was quoted.
The next manager, whoever that is, will be challenged to keep the players focused on what is happening on the field with all this chatter likely to continue from the front office.
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on Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
As long as they let Cashman control everything, this team will be heading in the right direction
When you hear levine made xyz trade or signing instead of Cashman then get back to me.
Hey Pete. It’s 3:50am in NY, right? I know you are committed to this blog but can’t believe you are posting in late late nite, esp Yanks has already been eliminated. Thanks for all the excellent entries!
I am afraid only “Steven Seagal”:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114781/ can save us now.
Levine sure is vain, isn’t he.
I just read the linked NYT article and it’s funny.
Levine sounds like a weak, paranoid Richard Nixon typing an “Enemies List” while wailing “they’re out to get me”
Buck-up, Randy. This is New York. Just ask Roger Maris.
Please do not trade Wang to other baseball team
Levine just rubs me the wrong way… seems like a self-centered brat to me…
our front office really is killing me.
Cashman like Torre must be getting it from the front office. They have the patience of a 2 year old but I guess that goes with the territory(NY). Be interesting to see who wears the pants this winter. WE’ll know if they get Santana and have to say good-bye to Wang,Hughes,Joba,or Kennedy.
Pete – Do the Steinbrenner sons, Randy Levine and others who are interviewing prospective managers and coaches know anything about baseball? I’m beginning to wonder if they do, as they seem to be basing everything on business only, not sports.
Today’s Sports Page
http://tinyurl.com/2yswzw
Focusing on you now who.
Po’ Mets, nobody cares about their turmoil.
Whoa! Studly New Yorkers !!
http://tinyurl.com/2fmtzr
[i]The next manager, whoever that is, will be challenged to keep the players focused on what is happening on the field with all this chatter likely to continue from the front office.[/i]
LOL
Wishful thinking sox fanboy
You probably think Arod will opt out because of the “turmoil” in the Yankees FO
Dr.Acula -
Thanks for the back page pix. The Star Ledger just doesn’t do the same thing.
One thing is for certain, if the Yankees hire Girardi, they will surely be able to claim the most fit manager in MLB. Joe G. looks like he could recruit for the Marines, no?
The Mets? Turmoil? Huh?
Levine is just a politician. He doesn’t know from the game; he probably never played it. While other kids were playing baseball, he was taking accounting classes.
Levine’s really showing his stripes in that NYT article. Calling Sandomir and going after his critics personally he reminded me so much of the old days with Rudy, when Rudy would verbally assassinate anyone who dared to criticize him.
Of Mike and the Maddog Baby Huey Levine suggested that they know he doesn’t like paying for a simulcast of their radio show on YES them so they have it in for him. So we should, apparently, discount their criticism of him. But nobody really takes Francesa and Russo seriously. Questioning their ethics is like questioning a dog’s ethics. It’s just the nature of the beast. How many times has Cashman been brutally and ignorantly criticized by those two idiots and Cashman still does their show. Cash doesn’t insist that journalists pass loyalty tests. (He never worked for Rudy).
Apparently, nobody remembers the pre 9-11 Rudy Giuliani. Just like Rudy, Levine tries to make any criticism of the job he’s doing into a personal issue, instead of valid criticism (What? Me do wrong? Never. It’s a personal vendetta!). Just like his mentor, Baby Huey Levine managed to issue a not so veiled threat to Mike and the Maddog that they will be off the YES airwaves when the contract is up. But not as payback, no, no, no. It’s jsut a business decision. (Then why raise it in this context?). The threat was a clear message: No more criticism if you like your YES paycheck. Free speech anyone?
As for Verducci, did anyone here really not know that Verducci wrote that book with Torre? I don’t know how much he made from that but I don’t think it was enough to make him blind to the truth or make him a Torre sycophant and a dangerous, vindictive liar without credibility when criticizing Levine. But there goes Levine again, setting the phaser to “kill,” questioning the sportswriter’s ethics because he dared to criticize.
What a peek into Baby Huey (Levine). It’s so important to Levine that no one criticize him, just like it was (and is) with Rudy. The level of paranoia is astounding. Everyone is an enemy. Just like Rudy, he goes after them personally if they dare criticize him.
So, Sandomir is the favorite mouthpiece for Randy now? Enjoy that Richie, while it lasts. He’ll turn on you too if you dare to sound less than 100% loyal.
Don Mattingly’s teleconference is liable to be low key and far the opposite of what Joe Girardi’s was after the interview process. It will clearly show the personality difference.
I am a huge Yankee fan, but I think that the reason Randy Levine is being killed is because we always need that villain to blame. For a long time it was the Boss, but with his health deteriorating and role apparently diminished we have xhosen his succesor. I have no problems with Levine. The matters he is discussing have to do with contracts which is part of his job description. As long as he doesn’t interfere with any on-field or player personell decisions I am ok with him.
Levine showed his stripes in that NYT article. Calling Sandomir and going after his critics personally he reminded me so much of the old days with Rudy, when Rudy would verbally assassinate anyone who dared to criticize him.
Of Mike and the Maddog Baby Huey Levine suggested that they know Levine doesn’t like paying for a simulcast of their radio show on YES them so they have it in for him. So we should, apparently, discount their criticism of Levine. But nobody really takes Francesa and Russo seriously. Questioning their ethics is like questioning a dog’s ethics. It’s just the nature of the beast. How many times has Cashman been brutally and ignorantly criticized by those two idiots and Cashman still does their show. Cash doesn’t insist that journalists pass loyalty tests. (He never worked for Rudy).
Apparently, nobody remembers the pre 9-11 Rudy Giuliani. Just like Rudy, Levine tries to make any criticism of the job he’s doing into a personal issue, instead of valid criticism (What? Me do wrong? Never. It’s a personal vendetta!). Just like his mentor, Baby Huey Levine managed to issue a not so veiled threat to Mike and the Maddog that they will be off the YES airwaves when the contract is up. But not as payback, no, no, no. It’s just a business decision. (Then why raise it in this context?). The threat was a clear message: No more criticism if you like your YES paycheck. Free speech anyone?
As for Verducci, did anyone here really not know that Verducci wrote that book with Torre? I don’t know how much he made from that but I don’t think it was enough to make him blind to the truth or make him a Torre sycophant and a dangerous, vindictive liar without credibility when criticizing Levine. But there goes Levine again, setting the phaser to “kill,” questioning the sportswriter’s ethics because he dared to criticize. What a peek into Baby Huey (Levine). It’s so important to Levine that no one criticize him, just like it was (and is) with Rudy. The level of paranoia is astounding. Everyone is an enemy. Just like Rudy, he goes after them personally if they dare criticize him.
So, Sandomir is the conduit for Randy now? Another Rudy trick. Talk only to friendly journalists. Enjoy that Richie, while it lasts. He’ll turn on you too if you dare to sound less than 100% loyal.
Really sorry about that double post, guys. Mea culpa.
Randy Levine has held the title of Yankee President since 2000.
It’s hard to imagine that he hasn’t figured in on team decisions other than his recently documented ones.
One month ago, the average fan walking on the street didn’t know who he was or his title.
It will be interesting to see how long Donnie is with the Yankees today and if he speaks with everyone Joe G did. I think that will speak volumes for how much of a favorite he is.
And question, did George come out and say he wanted Donnie to eventually be the manager? I don’t recall him saying that.
“Just a few months ago it seemed like Brian Cashman reported only to George Steinbrenner”
Come on Pete… I mean lets be real. We all know that George has been in decline for a couple of years. And how soon you forget Steve Swindal. This year we finally got a view of who is emerging from behind the curtain but its not like they’ve been hidden from Brian – its been management by committee for several years now. Lets not be over dramatic about the front office changes and act as if they just happened.
Regarding Girardi vs Mattingly… It appears to be a no win situation for Girardi. If Mattingly is indeed the favorite son of the “new” front office then Girardi will always have that hanging over his head. They (the front office) won’t let Mattingly stray too far away and might even insist that he be retained as a coach on Girardi’s staff. Minimally they give Mattingly a manager’s job at the AAA or AA level to gain experience. If they are truly so enamored with Donnie but feel he’s not ready, the Tony Pena seems to be the right (interim) solution. Personally I’d prefer to see Girardi offered the job since I think he is the only candidate who actually offers a different personality and approach than Torre provided. But I would not be surprised if he too turns it down for the aforementioned reason.
Did anyone else hear/read that Reggie made a comment about how much Alex could get on the open market. Supposedly the Yankee front office were very upset with him.
Thanks for the links Peter.
The NYT also has a take on the Rockies “mission”, so to speak.
I just cannot root for them!
Don’t want BOS to win another one either.
Damn!
Not to get too off topic, but did you guys see that Seattle hired Mel as their pitching coach? If it has been posted elsewhere, sorry.
You can’t root for them because they have a strong Christan base? That is just silly.
I’ve heard that there are many players on the Yankees that have prayer groups, Pettitte, Jorge, Mo. Do you think any less of them because of that?
murphydog-
when you (rightly in my opinion) have such disdain for randy levine, aren’t you the least bit concerned with the yankees ownership that has put this guy in a power position? we can look at every decison and crisis that comes up on an individual basis which is like looking at the trees in the old analogy, or we can look at the woods to get the big picture. the big picture is ownership incompetency. ownership is a mess. george has sadly hit the point the family probably won’t let him drive a car alone. randy levine has jumped into the lack of leadership void. he’s clearly an opportunistic”suit” who knows little about the game. unless the people who make the baseball decisions have bulletproof contracts that insulate them from levine and his kind, the yankees are going to be a mess.
cashman needs one of these bulletproof contract if he’s going to be able to implement the long range plan of his that you have long championed. how can he deal with randy levine who appears to have more power than him when cashman has a one year contact?
i think cashman should demand a three year extension to stay the course on the work he’s set in motion or resign. he has the clout right now to get his way. they could not afford the pr hit they’d take if he quit. i know this is surprising to hear me say it, but cashman has emerged as the only one who has real baseball experience.
cashman will need to take on levine at some point. they are on a collision course. it might as well be now when the yankees need him and he has the leverage. if he waits and things go wrong in 2008, cashman will be the fall guy.
Yep I heard that. How old is Mel now? It will be interesting to see how he does with that staff. And it is kinda funny that he is reunited with Jeff Weaver!!!
Want do you expect Hank to do? Roll over and play dead, when a bunch of hack journalists attack him simply because they need “copy” and believe that people like to read about controversey. Read the comments on this post, not sure if that is true, Peter. The Joe Torre issue is a lot more complicated than you have portrayed. Your coverage is basically, Joe is good, anybody not named Joe is bad. You are playing to the masses, many who became “fans” post October 26, 1996, instead of really analyzing the situation. Overall, you have done a very poor job the past week with your heavy-handed coverage. I read your work all the time. You are better than this nonsensical populist writing that you have embraced lately. I hope you are just angry about Joe and will resume your typically better coverge once you cool off.
Randy 1 -
I have a question for you. I know you are dissatisfied with Yankee ownership, to say the least. So far, they do not seem like they are interested in selling the franchise. But, if they were, how could you be sure that any new owner would be better? It could end up being another CBS.
I think we have to put them (the Steinbrenner-ettes)on a “learning curve,” so to speak. I am not convinced Levine is going to end up as “the” power guy there; seems to me, he is more likely to end up the fall guy. If he’s the one doing all the talking, and taking all the heat in the press, plus he is no blood relation to George, it seems to me he is the most vulnerable. I’ve said it before – it is in the best interest of the New York Yankees to field a winning team from both a baseball and a business perspective.
Now, if they don’t re-sign Mariano, Posada or ARod, then I would worry. They don’t have re-sign all three, but certainly any 2 of the 3 to prove they’re not in sell mode.
I would love to see Brian Cashman get a contract extension, however, in appreciation for the work he is doing to get the Yankees back into a position to be a self-sustaining organization talent-wise. It is better for the Yankees, again, from both the baseball and the financial perspectives, to continue on Cashman’s path.
As long as Jorge and Mo come back I’ll be happy. I have no doubt that they will do everything in their power to extend Alex. But, if he leaves, than don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I would NOT blame them for not re-signing him. After all if he opts out they will lose 20 some million. Plus if he opts out that just shows me how phony he was that he “loves” NY etc was all bs.
Jennifer -
If Don Mattingly doesn’t get the full compliment of front office types that Joe Girardi did, it will speak volumes and also in the time he is given. It could translate to a double meaning either in minds made up already or they’re not as serious.
Hopefully Peter will provide the teleconference hookup like yesterday’s with Girardi. It will also be interesting to pick apart Mattingly’s demeanor and answers as to how the interview was conducted and what transpired.
I’m tired of hearing what Randy Levine and Hank Steinbrenner have to say. What I’ve heard so far has been a lot of rhetoric and whing and I’m not impressed.
The only one I want to hear from is Brian Cashman telling me who has been hired, signed and how the team will be looking to get better next year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....berts.html
Good read, and very interesting that there are no whispers about them. Impartial my FOOT!!
another article on it
msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7365076
I think Levine is the conveinent “villain” in the story and nothing more. Every story needs one and he’s the guy in this one.
He’s not choosing the new manager.
This entire situation mirrors 1995. They fired a popular (with the fans and media) manager (Showalter), all the stories from every corner proclaimed the “death of the Yankees”, and things worked out.
Ironically, the most unbiased story written in all this was by Peter Gammons on ESPN.com. In short, Gammons said, as much as the situation may have been bungled, this is still the New York Yankees. They have the resources, and the ability to still be a powerhouse. Gammons also went on to say they are positioned for a GREAT future because of all the young players in the pipeline.
The ending with Torre was handled HORRIBLY. However, it was time for a new manager. Just too many mistakes were made during the season (particularly, the handling of pitchers and the lineup) to warrant a contract extension for Joe Torre.
All you have to do is watch the Cleveland-Boston series and ask yourselves honestly, “How did the Yankees lose to Cleveland”?
It wouldn’t shock me to see Girardi get the job. He’s bright, very much in tune with video and statistical analysis (two things Torre disdained), and understands what this job entails. Not just the media side of it but, the entire job. He understands that more than many in the media give him credit for.
What may hurt Mattingly is, it seems they are looking for someone with more of an edge about him for the gig. I can’t say I disagree with that opinion. If there is one thing that has bothered me about the Yankees the last 3 years is, its a soft team. The damn Red Sox play with more grit and more of an edge than the Yankees play with these days and that bothers the hell out of me.
As far as what happened in Florida, I live in Florida. Believe me, if Girardi punched Jeffrey Loria (the owner) in the mouth, folks down here wouldn’t have lost a second of sleep over it. Randy Levine is more popular in NY than Jeffrey Loria is in South Florida. That’s the kind of “regard” fans have for Loria.
The Marlins fired him because he was too “controlling”. They hired a “nice guy”, who, “can handle the clubhouse” (all the cliches members of the media like to throw around), in Fredi Gonzalez. How did that work out? Well, their best player (Miguel Cabrera) showed up 60 pounds overweight and tested authority all year. He routinely showed up between 90 minutes and two hours before gametime. The finally benched him for one game because of it and he STILL did it! The team made more physical and mental errors than any team in baseball this year.
Fredi’s in game decisions were second guessed on a nightly basis. Pardon the pun but, he looked like a fish out of water in the job the entire season.
By the end of the season, the same members of the local media, who KILLED Girardi were left with wondering whether or not Gonzalez is the right guy for the job.
The biggest mistake Girardi made as manager of the Marlins was bringing back Josh Johnson to pitch after an 80 minute rain delay. Even though Johnson wanted to pitch, Girardi should have say no.
Annibal Sanchez, another guy Girardi gets “blamed” for hurting? The ONLY healthy season he had in the last 4 years of his career, came under Joe Girardi.
If this doesn’t become a, “let’s appease the media” contest, Girardi should be the guy. He brings everything to the table you want in today’s baseball.
Worried about a player exodus? Pop in the Posada Yankeeography and hear what he has to say about Girardi. He praises him as much as I have ever heard a player praise another guy at the same position.
Nothing against Don Mattingly, whom I believe can be a successful manager. However, its awfully tough to be a first time manager with the New York Yankees. Very, very tough gig for your first job. Add to it, replacing a legend, and that’s tough.
Girardi brings more of an edge, which this team needs, and experience. Even his experience of handling a difficult owner is a plus.
To me, Girardi and Mattingly are 1 and 1A for the job. You can’t go wrong with either guy but, if I had to choose, its Girardi by a nose.
randy1:
It’s a volatile time back at Yankee HQ. In any change of administration, there is a power shift and a new direction because new people are in charge and they need to assert their own vision to be effective. They also usually install their own middle managers, people who share their views. But this is busy time with a lot to do, so they can’t throw the baby out with the bath water and clean house right now.
The sons don’t know the “doing business” rules of MLB; they come from other businesses. So, until they get their bearings, there is a vacuum. It is interesting to me that while Cashman certainly knows the rules, as does Jean Afterman, the boys/Big Stein have allowed Levine to get more light rather than Cash. Levine was a survivor in City Government for some time, knowing when to stay low and when to make his move. (I’m sure he whacked the careers of more than a few who got in his way or that he did not like).
Randy currently deals with contracts and arbitration if I can believe what I read. And he is apparently handling the new stadium project (with the help of an expensive Construction Management firm of course). Overall, Levine seems especially valuable to the sons because he appears to know the one aspect of baseball that the sons currently understand and respect… what the budget really means at Yankees Inc.
Cashman joined the business at a young age when the sons were not interested or couldn’t handle their father’s tirades and meddling. Is he now considered an interloper in the family business? My further guess is that HankHal believe that identifying talent is a crapshoot and anybody can do it as well as Cash. HankHal are going to be overly protective of their weakening dad and committed to getting him exactly what he wants(and why not). The person who gives the loudest “All Hail King George” cheer will fare the best. The underlings just have to realize that the princes are now in power and no one is to disturb the King unless the princes say so. (Don’t bother “the old man” with that).
My guess is that Cash is needed now as they go into next season. But if there is a slow start next year, Cash could be GONE. I’m also keeping my eye on Gene Michael. I’m just guessing, of course, but Michael may well be the next one to follow Torre because of his past clashes with Big Stein and closeness to Cash. And if Torre and Michael are both gone, Cash is a dead man walking.
I would prefer to see Girardi get the job, Pena the bench coach, with Mattingly being given an opportunity to manage, perhaps in AA or AAA & learn the ropes & see if he is really cut out to manage. I think Girardi can become a great manager & will have surely learned a valuable lesson from his previous fiing.
Ultimately however, who ultimately gets the job will be of less importance to the long term health & stability of the team, than how the dynamics between the “new regime” & Cashman play out. What I’ve observed in the past few days is making me nervous. Cashman needs to be given at least a 3 year deal, & ALLOWED to run the Baseball end of things & make the talent decisions with the baseball people, within the fiscal budget he is afforded. Levine & the sons need to stay out of the way, & limelight, as much as possible or dysfunction will rule. I trust Cashman to put the best team on the field, & these guys need to stay out of his way,& Levine needs to develop a thicker skin, ignore the criticism, and realize it’s not about HIM.
Isn’t it ironic that they are so concerned how the new manager handle the media when the baby Stein’s and Levine clearly are out of their element when working with reporters?
Time for another playing of “Sports Century: Curt Schilling” on ESPN Classic. Which means time to miss it again. Only four things happened in the past according to ESPN Classic: American Gladiators, bowling, poker and 38pitches. Almost as limited as “Yankee Classics” variety on YES
Jennifer, very good read.
“So far, they do not seem like they are interested in selling the franchise. But, if they were, how could you be sure that any new owner would be better? It could end up being another CBS.”
doreen-
i’d like to see a passionate about baseball billionaire get control of the yankees like john henry of the red sox. henry has his faults but you might notice he has the red sox in the world series for the second time in 4 years. once is lucky. twice you have to worry about. a corporate buyout like cbs or the tribune ownership of the cubs would make no sense as you point out.
i realize that my contstant bashing of the ownership will get old, but that’s the way i see it. i saw the problem when swindall was put in charge. it made no sense then to put him in charge. as it turned out, i called that one right. it was just nespotism then as putting hal and hank in charge is just nespotism now.
i have a question for you. is there any succesful baseball ownership out there that has survived the death of an owner and the family has kept the team? i don’t know the answer, but i’d be surprised if there is.
i’m not an estate lawyer, but i think that estate laws are stacked against families keeping teams. if anyone on the blog knows about how this works ,it’d be great to hear from them.
to me, the big story is the ownership mess. everything else is a by product of that. there is no clear leadership at this point, and i don’t see anything to indicate it’ll be coming from the steinbrenner sons anytime soon.
It’s pretty funny to compare how the media is treating this whole situation and then to listen to what Mariano Rivera has to say about it.
Bogusch: “What does this mean for you, Mariano? Obviously, everyone knows your contract status. Do you need to know who the Yankee manager is before you start talking to [Yankees GM] Brian Ca$hmoney?”
Rivera: “Not really. Not really. I know the Yankees are going to do whatever they think is best for the team. I always respect them for that. The Yankees always have given the opportunity to give us the best everything, the best players, the best coaching staff. They always tried to do that. I don’t think it has to do nothing, with me, in terms of signing with the Yankees.”
If Mariano Rivera is cool with it, then maybe you hacks should step back from the ledge.
SJ44 -
I agree with your well-written take on the situation.
In full disclosure I have to say that way back in May, when Girardi’s name was floated as a mid-season replacement for Joe Torre, I was adamantly opposed to Girardi because of his connection to some of the veteran players. As things have played out, and as over time I got to consider the situation more slowly and less out of knee-jerk reaction, I realized that it comes down to a small handful of players, and that the players involved have always been very professional baseball players — Mo, Derek & Posada. I hardly think they’d stage a coup against Girardi. And he was the bench coach a couple of seasons ago, so he has been in a position of pseudo-authority.
I don’t think they could go wrong with any of the three candidates, but I think Girardi’s slightly edgy personality would be a good thing here. Now, in fairness to Mattingly, who knows how edgy he could be if he were the one in charge. Filling in for Torre for 2 days, he certainly was not going to put his imprint on those games at all.
And I am not familiar enough with Pena’s stint as manager for KC, so I can’t comment on that. From all accounts he did a mostly good job; and from what I’ve seen of him as a coach, the players certainly respond to him. But he may be better suited as a coach for this team, and I fear his willingness to stay on as coach may hurt his chance to be manager anyway.
No matter who gets the call ultimately, I think I will feel a twinge of disappointment that either of the other two didn’t get the job. I can’t wait until this is over.
Tucson Ken
You’re right on the $$$ here. I’m much more interested in Cashman’s future than the new manager (although I have a definite preference for Girardi).
I fully expext Levine to try and force Cashman out at which point we are all Fu**ed.
The Steinbrothers don’t bother me so much although they’re PR sense is pretty bad at this point.
SJ:
I agree. To paraphrase Twain: The reports of the Yankees’ death are greatly exaggerated.
The Torre thing was coming. It could have easily happened last year. Now he’s gone (I will miss him, probably for the wrong reasons), and a new generation of conspiracy theorists will keep his firing alive forever. But without any disrespect to Joe Torre, it’s already time to move on. And George is failing and he needs to be replaced too. Enter the loyal sons, HankHal to keep dad’s dream alive. They will probably do a decent job in the short run. The long run is anybody’s guess.
Levine is probably a convenient target, but convenience isn’t mutually exclusive of validity. Levine seems ham-handed and, as I mentioned above, paranoid and brutal, like Giuliani, pre 9-11. The NYT article today was revealing as to how deep he personalizes slights and the lengths to which he will go to strike back. Those are bad traits in a small organization under intense media scrutiny. But, then again, having a pitbull around the house tends to discourage burglars and troublemakers. Hopefully HankHal rein Randy in before he bites someone and sends them to the hospital.
For those worried about the on field product, this should make you feel a LOT better:
Gene Michael has a seat at the table. Had it during the trade deadline. Had it in the Torre/post-season discussions, and has it during the managerial interview process.
If we are looking at the entire picture, when trying to figure out if the Post-George Era is going to be successful, you have to admit, its a good sign to see Stick back in the fold.
Honestly, I have no worries about the baseball side of things. The baseball side of the operation is in good hands and there is no reason to think otherwise right now.
If Cashman still didn’t have control of the baseball side, you wouldn’t see Stick involved and they would have never paid what they paid their draft picks this year.
I would argue, Cashman probably has more, not less, power in baseball matters now than he did when Torre was there.
He put in the Joba Rules. He blew up the bullpen at mid-season, and he got Stick back in the fold.
For a guy whose power is suppose to be “on the decline” (if you believe some stories), that’s a lot of clout.
murphydog-
being outside the new york city area, your insights are illuminating about levine. i really don’t know much about how levine came up through city politial battlefields. we seem to be on the same page about cashman needing an extension to give him some clout.
i’ve changed my mind about him to some extent because of his backing of his baseball people. it’s be my choice to see him get a long term contact so he can keep baseball operations on course.
keep up the insights about the palace intrigue going on with the yankees. those of us outside the city don’t have the background to see it the way that you do.
“Honestly, I have no worries about the baseball side of things. The baseball side of the operation is in good hands and there is no reason to think otherwise right now.”
sj-
cashman has a one year contract. how can that be a good thing for baseball operations?
Murph,
Don’t get me wrong, I’m no Levine guy. In fact, he may be my least favorite person in the organization.
The Yankees have a lot of great people in the organization these days. He isn’t one of them.
He’s useful to the Yankees for one reason, and one reason only…..the new Stadium. Once that’s done, he’s done, IMO.
He is the perfect villain in the Torre stuff because he hated Torre. The Steinbrenners know that so, its better (for them) to have Levine be the villain rather than themselves.
Its classic “Steinbrenner-ian” behavior! lol
Anyone who defends Levine regarding baseball-related decisions is a fool. Probably the same people on this blog who think the Yanks should let Mo and Posada go, or trade for Santana (without having to give up all of our top young players).
The problem with the stien bro is that they are learning on the job while they made the most important decision of the offseason. If they would have started during spring training, by now they *might* know the ropes. Its worth giving them a shot because as they say, they might be a son of a b*tch, but they are our son of a b*tch.
Randy,
The Yankees always operated like that. They did it with Stick, and also did it with Cashman in his last contractual go round.
Right now, Cashman’s situation isn’t a priority. They need a new manager and have to decide on Arod, Posada and Mo. Taht all takes priority over Cashman’s future.
When the other stuff is taken care of, I think Cashman ends up with a new deal. I get the impression, the Steinbrenner brothers like the direction he is taking the team and, when the time is right, will reward him for it.
Passage of time give you some perspective on past situations. Finding out that Joe Girardi decided to take some time off from managing because he dad was ill makes me wonder. Back in May, it sure seemed like Torre was a dead lame duck. Yes, Cashman probably intervened at the time to save his job, but how much of that could be chalked up to the fact that Girardi was not available and Mattingly had been a bench coach for all of 2 months?
“If Mariano Rivera is cool with it, then maybe you hacks should step back from the ledge.”
Mo, who wants to return to the Yankees, was just being his usual respectful self. The media and the rest of us “hack” are not required to be respectful, however, only honest, inquisitive and skeptical.
So, while I love Mo as much as anybody else, the Yanks have certainly not always done what is the best for the organization. Jared Wright, Womac, Lofton, Kevin Brown, Javy Vasquez, Randy Johnson, Jason Giambi’s too long contract, Bernie Williams’ too long contract, just to name a few. Big Stein also ordered the trade for Johnson and the signing of Sheffield over Vlad. How’d that work out? Pavano goes into a separate category because everybody wanted him.
SJ:
You are right. Letting Torre’s blood splatter on Levine might have out Machiavelli’d Machiavelli. But I hope the boys are clever enough to keep Randy at a safe distance from baseball ops, and to jettison him after the new Stadium is done – - ahead of schedule and under budget.
Doreen,
Girardi’s father has Alzheimers Disease. He made the decision to move back to the Chicago area (from South Florida) this summer so he and his family could spend quality time with him before the disease took its inevitable toll.
For anybody who has ever had to deal with this in their family, you know time is of the essence. One day, you are talking with your loved one as if nothing is wrong. The next day, they don’t even know who you are.
Its truly an awful, awful disease.
While I’m always sniping at the Yankees front office. It’s also fair to point out that everyone wanted Javy Vasquez.
SJ:
And I hope you are right about the high esteem in which the Sons hold Cash.
Eugene:
Fair comment.
I agree 100 percent with Girardi’s quote- “I think that I bring the expectation of winning everyday.” Yes, he does. It’s impossible to say enough about the job that he did in Florida. He had a team that believed in him, played their best for him, and that would run through walls for him. I know that it’s early to pass judgment on the position since there are two others who have to be interviewed, but Girardi is the best choice in my book. That whole situation in Florida was just politics. He made a few mistakes, but who doesn’t?
You show me a manager who is timid and afraid to take a stand, and I’ll show you one who doesn’t command the respect of his team. Joe Girardi will get the full respect of the team everywhere that he goes. It’s not so much that he has to be a drill sergeant to do it, but due more to the fact that he has a high baseball IQ. He has been in every situation imaginable as a player, and his players will respect that.
He was on his way to building a winner in Florida, but their ownership did not want that. They would rather give everybody away and start from scratch. They enjoy the challenge of rebuilding. Girardi would have made a contender out of the Marlins for years to come.
SJ44 has arrived to be the voice of reason. Great posts. I’m with you 100%. I mentioned the villain analogy in a prior post as well.
As for Mel being the new pitching coach of Seattle, I can hear it now.
Mel: Hey Felix! Forget about striking people out! We’re pitching to contact!
Felix: Que?
I’m in agreement with SJ44. Joe Girardi does in fact have an edge. He’s in step with the times both in player communication as well as the newer technology needed in baseball today and used by many teams. Joe Torre was more old school with field situations coming from his playing days.
Prior to returning to the Yankees as batting coach, Don Mattingly did little to keep in touch with the game after his retirement as a player. On the other hand, Joe Girardi remained in the game and planned a career as a manager using the gradual step process. Although he stated yesterday that he nixed the Orioles job earlier this year to be close to his ailing father, he may have had a bigger prize in mind and Peter Angelos has a track record for dragging down a once proud franchise.
Girardi was smart in not wishing to get into his Marlin experience with the media. It’s been documented well enough and served no point in further discussion other than the interviewer’s curiosity of it to better know him.
SJ, you hit the nail on the head as usual.
Regarding Yankees softness and the RSOX grit this is so frustratingly evident it is a wonder the Yankees aren’t considered the softest team in the league by insiders. A lot of that demeanor came from the former manager, and most of the vets, unfortunately I think the Yankees under Donnie will reflect that status quo, given Mattingly’s demeanor.
Posada, Petitte and Fworth are one of the few vets that show any kind of fire. Joba, Melky, Minky and Shelly are refreshing in the sense that they are more in your face guys, personalities the Yankees have lacked. Most of the rest of the Yankees, although high-performers, are too laid back, almost in a daze. This repeatedly was evident in the lack of argued calls, whether at the plate or at a base.
If you believe most of the media reports, you’d likely conclude Donnie is the next manager. I certainly hope not.
That facet of Girardi and flaw of Mattingly is why I’ve advocated Girardi since the get go.
SJ44-
I wasn’t trying to trivialize Girardi’s situation and I certainly wasn’t trying to imply any machinations in that regard. I was just saying that Torre’s job was certainly in jeopardy earlier in the season and circumstances possibly had something to do with the Yankees deciding to wait it out. Idle curiosity.
I did not know that it was Alzheimer’s, but in any event, any family illness, regardless of the particulars, should take precedence. Girardi and his family are certainly lucky that he was in a position to be able to spend a lot of time with his dad. (They say things happen for a reason; again, not to trivialize, but had he not been fired, it would have been more difficult for him to follow his heart.)
As someone said these guys (Levine, Hank and Hal) are business people NOT baseball/sports people! Leave Cash alone and let him run the baseball team. You other guys just deposit the checks!
I love Girardi after hearing him field questions last night. He said all the right things. He convinced me when he stated that his goal with the Marlins was to win the World series, because if that’s not the goal “What’s the point?”. Brilliant. That is the attitude you MUST have to manage the Yankees.
I also agree with SJ44’s description of Girardi’s edge. He brings intangibles to the table, such as not wanting his players to be messed with. Girardi won’t stand idle and let anybody else run the Yankees in the mud if he becomes manager. He also will not let the umpires have their way with the Yankees. If his team is getting wronged, Girardi will stand up and be unafraid to state his case. I like that. That’s why it was SO refreshing to see Torre get fired up and ejected in the early June game at Fenway. He felt that the Yankees had been wronged on a call, and he stood up and spoke his mind and was tossed. That seemed to give the team an extra jolt in their step, at least for that night. That’s exactly what Girardi can do.
I agree that Levine is nat a Baseball person, but Hank and Hal grew up around the Yankees. Even if they weren’t actively students of the game they have been exposed to it in a fashion that few have.
The NY sports media is so stupid, honestly. This team has not changed at all. It is still Cashman’s team. Someone had to look like the bad guy in Torre’s ousting, why not Levine? Cashman comes out of this squeaky clean, still in complete control. He obviously wanted Torre gone, and he will have control over the next successor. Why should Cashman have handled the firing, a situation where he would look bad no matter what? Levine is taking all of the heat, which is perfect for the organization. He is shielding Cash and even Hank and Hal to an extent. It’s so obvious.
Does anyone know why Levine hates Torre so much?
We all love Donnie Baseball, but Girardi SOOOO much more qualified to be the next manager. If these two guys were going for the Pirates job the pick is a no brainer. Jow is the man for the job. Donnie was a great player who worked hard at making himself the best he could be. I think Donnie would be a little like Ted Williams and Larry Bird were when they were the head guy, dissapointed and disalusioned at the efforts of their players. Girardi his heads an shoulders more qualified.
“The NYT also has a take on the Rockies “missionâ€?, so to speak.
I just cannot root for them!”
Tommy,
Talk about anti-Christian bias.
Your comments are just as bad as someone saying they couldn’t root for a team because they have Jews or Latin players on the team.
Matt mentioned Randy Levine has held the title of Yankee President since 2000.
I agree it’s hard to imagine that he hasn’t figured in on team (personnel) decisions other than his recently documented ones.
QUESTION TO RANDY LEVINE: Could you remind us … when was the last time the Yanks won the world series?
The Yankee front office would be making mistake #2 if they hire a guy who 1. Is the most beloved Yankee since Mickey Mantle, what happens when he has to be fired? 2. They pass on a guy that has experience is percieved to be one of the smartest baseball guys in the game. 3. Don’t hire mattingly just to placate the fans, to take the sting out of the Torre situation. 4. I don’t think mattingly has the people skills, he has been put on a pedestal his whole career, what heappens when the seas get a little rough and he starts to get questioned? Girardi has shown to be thick skinned and whats so wrong with telling a big mouth owner to shut up and sit down. The manger will talk to the umpires not the owner. To me its really a no brainer
I think, in the end, it will all work out.
If Posada or Mo stays, I think the chance that the other one stays goes up as well, and I have a hard time seeing both of them leaving the Yanks, especially as there’s no real substitute for either of them–not if we want Molina as a back up and Joba as a starter.
A-Rod might go, but if he does, I can’t see it being the huge deal that everyone thinks.
The Yankees’ biggest concern after the manager and Po and Mo and A-Rod should be figuring out a bullpen. Once they do that, the Yankees should be set.
It’s a bumpy ride, but it will smooth out. Chin up.
“A-Rod might go, but if he does, I can’t see it being the huge deal that everyone thinks.”
You don’t think losing the most valuable player in baseball and our biggest offensive contributor will be a huge deal?
“Most of the rest of the Yankees, although high-performers, are too laid back, almost in a daze. This repeatedly was evident in the lack of argued calls, whether at the plate or at a base. ”
how much of this comes from adopting the personality of their manager? their captain?
If Girardi becomes manager, Pena would be ideal for bench coach. If Mattingly becomes manager, Bowa would be better suited.
“QUESTION TO RANDY LEVINE: Could you remind us … when was the last time the Yanks won the world series?”
ANSWER: October 2000. Randy Levine was the President of the Yankees at the time, he was hired in January 2000.
I’m an optimist when it comes to baseball, but certain things are absolutes:
You cannot root for the Red Sox to win the World Series and call yourself a Yankee fan.
The only, only, only way it’s passable is if you’re the president of the AL or are a TV exec concerned about ratings.
That managerial bulldog mentality often wears thin pretty quickly.
If Girardi couldn’t make nice with the Marlins’ owner, how do you think he would do in the most demanding managerial position in the land?
People can blame Jeffery Loria (Marlins’ owner) all they want for the incident with Girardi but they fail to mention that the incident happened in May of 2006 and it was a distraction to the team all season.
Girardi had 5 months to clear the air with the owner and bury the hatchet but he didn’t do it. I’m sorry, I don’t really want that kind of guy managing this team.
I think there was a little more to the one incident involving Loria yelling at the umps because I can’t see an owner firing his manager for that one incident, especially when they had such a successful season.
It doesn’t make sense and I don’t think most of you are taking that into consideration when you’ve got the new Yankee management who is far more demanding and far more likely to get into conflicts with their managers than Jeffery Loria.
Managing is not rocket science. If the Yanks stack the rotation with arms who will eat innings night after night, it will hardly matter who manages the team.
sj44-
so do you believe that the steinbrenner sons can run a baseball operations as wll as john henry can with the red sox? this is a competition of owners as well as a competition on the field. i don’t see the yankee ownership as it is now constructed as being in the same league with red sox ownership.
as far as who will be the manager, i prefer girardi too. i don’t see the problem with him having problems with the florida owner. girardi because of being a catcher knows more about pitching than mattingly does. i believe he’d do a much better job of handling the pitching staff because of this. i like mattingly, but i have no idea how he’d manage.
one problem is that instead of both of them staying in the organization, whoever loses out is probably gone from the organiztion.
What type of managerial style does Girardi have? My instinct tells me he’ll likely favor one-run NL style managing, which would be a complete disaster.
Hey Matt, I had no idea you knew Ken Davidoff. For all of you who haven’t read his blog, Matt’s http://theyankeesrepublic.blogspot.com is a great read.
I was reading Ken Davidoff’s blog today, http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog and he mention he and Matt went to high school together.
After reading the times piece about Levine some of these “conflicts of interest” by his critics seem to stretch the definition.
This guy seems too thin skinned to be the face of the team. As point man in the toughest media market in the country, you better be able to take it as well as give it out.
I don’t know him, but his demeanor seems to reek of a mixture of arrogance and paranoia.
Great combination of traits to have for a leader in an organization, huh?
That’s just it, Randy. John Henry doesn’t run baseball operations. They have baseball people, led by Lucchino, doing it.
The Red Sox didn’t make the playoffs last year. Mainly, because Tito did a horrible job handling pitchers, and he ran roughshot over Dave Wallace.
Until this year, they hadn’t won a post-season game since 2004. So, its not exactly like they had been swimming in solid baseball decisionmaking in Boston.
They had two things going for them this year. One, the Yankees putrid start. It gave them a cushion that ended up being enough to hold off the Yankees. Even though, they lost the last four series head to head with the Yankees. Two, a TRUE ace, and big game pitcher, in Josh Beckett. It ended up working out for them.
They didn’t want to fire Tito last year because he handles the clubhouse (which is worse than ANY Yankee clubhouse has been in 15 years) very well.
So, they brought in John Farrell and gave him carte blanche to run the pitching staff. Tito had nothing to do with the pitching staff. It ended up being a smart move.
Folks on here get nervous about NOT making the playoffs. The Red Sox took not making the playoffs to make the changes they needed to make with their team.
The Yankees are trying to reload AND still make the playoffs at the same time. They did it but, its a tough thing to do.
It tells me the baseball operation in place for the Yankees isn’t the issue here. Its about moving forward and that’s what they are trying to do. Which makes this hire a very, very important hire.
hmmm
…how much of this comes from adopting the personality of their manager? their captain?…
IMO,alot.
I honestly don’t think there is anything funnier than posting under the name Giuseppe Franco – what a commercial.
B- I don’t think that Girardi would use the whole NL style of managing. I wouldn’t think that he would have the Yankees bunting very often. The thing that he needs to do the most (or whoever manages) is to put baserunners in motion. Putting runners in motion is an absolute must when you have Jeter, Posada, and Matsui at the plate, all very susceptible into grounding into double plays. Putting runners in motion allows runners to go from first to third on a single or even scoring from first on a double sometimes. That would be a good change.
“The Marlins fired him because he was too “controllingâ€?. They hired a “nice guyâ€?, who, “can handle the clubhouseâ€? (all the cliches members of the media like to throw around), in Fredi Gonzalez. How did that work out? Well, their best player (Miguel Cabrera) showed up 60 pounds overweight and tested authority all year. He routinely showed up between 90 minutes and two hours before gametime. The finally benched him for one game because of it and he STILL did it!”
Maybe Miguel Cabrera needs a real manager. Any takers?
“ANSWER: October 2000. Randy Levine was the President of the Yankees at the time, he was hired in January 2000.”
so now we’re blaming Randy Levine b/c Mariano threw a bunt away in 2001 and Torre used Jeff Weaver instead of Mariano Rivera in 2003?
Levine would look a lot better with 2-3 titles, wouldn’t he?
not defending the guy, he does seem kindof slimy, but it’s a little silly to insinuate that he was responsible for not winning more WS.
J-Dawg,
It wouldn’t be a change to put runners in motion. That was one of Torre’s trademarks.
Torre didn’t put them in motion enough. Game 4 was the biggest need when there were runners at the corners and Jeter was up. Damon was at first and was forced to be a statue. Boom, DP. Torre got away from that because he became obsessed with hitting three-run homers.
To B, who mentioned Girardi’s NL past…
One must remember what league did Torre came from. I only started reading about sports in 95 and 96, but there were many articles about how he would bring a “different/NL” style of play. So I don’t think that would be a problem.
SJ44-
You really know your stuff, probably one of the best, if not THE best contributor on this site. I agree with pratically everything you are saying. I think Girardi is the right guy for the job by a long shot, besides it could real ugly if Mattingly ended up being fired, I can’t envision the guys upstairs being that patient with him either.
“I honestly don’t think there is anything funnier than posting under the name Giuseppe Franco – what a commercial.”
HEY – listen to Giuseppe Franco – he knows what he’s talking about.
After all he “is” Giuseppe Franco!
J-Dawg,
According to Steve Goldman in his breakdown on Torre on BP yesterday:
“DOES HE HIT AND RUN VERY OFTEN? Constantly. He actually peaked in this regard in 2007.”
It is Donnie or bust, Gerardi as Yankee Mgr would be a joke…He would be outta here in a yr if they don’t do well. I keep laughing when I read post about Managerial experience…How many yrs did Joe G manage before he was canned after 1 yr for fighting and insulting his boss. If he tried that BS with the Stein’s he’d be gone by May 15th…Joe G, Willie Randolph-these guys had zero managerial experience before being hired…..again it is about the PLAYERS….Yanks have had NO situational or clutch hitting the last 4 yrs…..How many solo HR’s did the Yankees hit against Cleveland?? Its about pitching and timely hitting…Long live Donnie baseball……and by the way///they say Matting isn’t afraid to get in somebodys face…I heard he is real tough and thAt comes from Larry Bowa himself
B- That may be just because the Yankees get into a lot of full counts where everybody is turned loose. It’s a tribute to how well that the hitters can work the count. I could easily be wrong about that, though. That seems to happen to me very often.
Daily News is reporting that Jorge will be offered 3 years for $40 million, hopefully they wrap it up quickly.
Why can’t Levine just go away? Isn’t there some “stand in wet cement” ceremony he can go to off the Jersey shore?
This guy is worse than a mother-in law.
SJ44
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 am
That’s just it, Randy. John Henry doesn’t run baseball operations. They have baseball people, led by Lucchino, doing it
Exactly. The Yankees have not had solid baseball people running baseball operations since Stick Michael left. This has hurt them tremendously.
I don’t think it’s about getting in someone’s face but more of knowing *when* to do it and when not to. But in either case, I’d be ok with either Mattingly or Girardi at this point. But if it is going to be Mattingly, I’d want Bowa as his sidekick.
As I am thinking about it, Joe was already an autority figure to these guys. He was bench coach, so maybe they won’t have a problem seeing him as their manager.
In general, these Yankees need a change in demeanor both in the dugout and on the field. There were many situations when Joe Torre if not choosing to hassle things out with umpires, could have used Larry Bowa to do it for him. Long known as a fiery player and manager, Bowa was also known for a short fuse and could have done the dirty work.
Camera shots of Torre in the dugout with Mattingly were much the same as seeing two retirees sitting on a city park bench with thoughts of feeding popcorn to city pigeons.
Randy Levine was brought in by George to facilitate a new Yankee stadium being built.
“Exactly. The Yankees have not had solid baseball people running baseball operations since Stick Michael left. This has hurt them tremendously.”
Not sure what you’re talking about. Brian Cashman and Damon Oppenheimer have done a fantastic job turning around the organization over the last few years and are putting us in position to possibly establish another dynasty built around young players like Cano, Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy.
Vinny you just made me laugh out loud. You are right I don’t recall seeing them talk much to each other either.
“Exactly. The Yankees have not had solid baseball people running baseball operations since Stick Michael left. This has hurt them tremendously.”
uhh, Stick is still with the team and is part of Cashman’s inner-circle.
that was one of the benefits of Cashman’s power grab in 2005. Cashman looks to Stick for advice and he has gained influence over the last 2 years.
Lots of good comments. One point: anyone deciding that they want Girardi based at all on yesterdays telecon with reporters should at least wait to hear Donnie’s call, which I hope Pete posts today or tonight. Remember, Joe is used to handlng himself in front of a camera during broadcasts. He is very polished, as is Torre (he was behind the mic for many years prior to taking the Yanks job).
I wonder what happens if they pick Joe G. Does Donnie want to stay? Does Joe want him as his bench coach knowing he wanted the manager’s job? Same for Tony P. And I hope that Bowa returns — it seems he might be waiting on seeing who get the Yankee manager’s job before saying yes or no to Seattle.
I piled on Levine too. I don’t think he was covering for Cash, though. He just makes an easy target, unfortunately for him. But who decided that Randy should be the one to break the news that Torre rejected the offer…?
I wonder – what would be a deal breaker for a Santana deal… MLBrumors reports Wang, Melky, and Hughes or IPK and another prospect… they also report that a potential deal breaker would be the additon of Cano…
IMO, I’d do Wang, Melky and Hughes *OR* IPK *OR* prospect. No Cano and No combination of Hughes/Kennedy plus prosect.
Reading through the posts and it is interesting to see the parallels between Levine’s conduct and that of Il Duce Giuliani’s administration. Many of you are spot on. But this is the changing face of modern sports.
Corporate money means more than our ticket sales. To deal with corporations you need politicians or politician types who believe that based on business acumen alone, they usurp the knowledge held by legitimate baseball operations people and thus become instantly more qualified to deal with players.
Levine and his two sons- er Steinbrenner’s sons – need to take a page from some of the more successful teams around the league and leave the baseball operations to the “baseball people” – John Schurholz, for example.
B – sorry was vague.
Yes Cash and Damon have done a great job, but until the past year or so, their powers were always reduced by the Tampa faction.
It wasn’t until Cash was able to pull in scouting and other duties did some of these changes start to show…
Apologies, the statement was a little narrow and not completely developed. Multi tasking sucks.
hmmm
uhh, Stick is still with the team and is part of Cashman’s inner-circle.
that was one of the benefits of Cashman’s power grab in 2005. Cashman looks to Stick for advice and he has gained influence over the last 2 years.
Grrrrr! I thought he departed 3 years ago. Was not aware that he was still part of the organization and so involved with Cashman’s inner circle.
SJ44:
Your comments are, as always, insightful and meaningful.
I had commented several times that I don’t believe Mattingly has gained enough knowledge/experience to manage the most scrutinized Team in Sports. I think they offer either Girardi or Pena the skipper’s job and appease Donnie with either a Minor League managerial assignment or stipulate that he be hired as bench coach.
What is your opinion on Tony Pena’s chances for being selected as manager for the next two seasons?
It was always an easy answer to the following anti-Yankee attack,that the mighty Yanks and their mighty payroll,took them deep(but not deep enough lately) into the post season on a yearly basis.An accusation easily batted back by saying that the Yanks poured most of their profit back into the team.As the events of the past week have shown us,that no longer appears to be true.They (the Levinesteins)will now low ball certain players,hello Arod, cut as much as possible from payroll and POUR THAT SAVINGS AND EVERY OTHER NICKEL THEY CAN…….INTO THEIR POCKETS.
They will then,after bleeding us dry and leaving us to twist in the wind,ala CBS,they will sell the club.Hank and Hal have no interest in the team other than monetary gain.
Strap yourselves in fans…we are in for a bumpy ride.
why would anyone trade a 19 game winner in 06 and 07 your starting CF andd the number 1 rated prospect for Santana in walk year. plus last year was not that dominate, i’ll wait any sign him as a free agent, it gonna take 20,000,000 a year to get him if he has a great 08.
sj44-
when lucchino and theo got into an impossible power stuggle a year and a half ago where it looked like one of them would leave, henry as the owner stepped in and kept both on board and in their proper positions of power. he is hands on in the sense he makes the decision when the people he delegates to can’t get along.
henry is a decisive owner, and he’s a selfmade billionaire who has a passion for baseball. he’s put together an ownership team and a management team that has got the red sox to the world series twice in 4 years, and, unfortunateley, i don’t think it’s an accident. the red sox ,as you say are far from perfect in their management, but they seem to have the ability to learn from their mistakes. i think they didn’t a make the playoffs in 2005 because they went too far in the younger and cheaper grow your own philosophy when they rushed their young relievers hansen and delcarmen and passed on abreau. they realized they misread the market and reversed their plan and went out and overspent signing matsuzaka, drew, and lugo.
the bottom line is that while they have management problems and power struggles too, they learn from their mistakes. they seem to leave room for creative differences in the organization like the situation with lucchino and epstein. the yankees have seemed to descend into power struggles where good people are forced out on a regular basis. if the red sox were run like the yankees, theo would be out and lucchino in. henry didn’t let that happen. he still has them both working for him
the yankees need a similar strong ownership to put people in their right place and to keep good people in the organization. i think you are minimizing the effect that bad ownership can have on the baseball people.
The NYT article didn’t do Levine any favors. His points/counterpoints to pick apart his critics only reminded people that he’s a slick lawyer.
The thought of Donnie doing his media Q&A tonight makes me realize why I don’t want him to get the job. It makes me cringe imagining that he’s probably not going to sound that articulate, and it will be painful to watch (hear) our beloved Donnie Baseball fall flat on his face.
I saw on ESPN their poll on “Who should be next Yankee manager”… nationally, Donnie led the votes at 38%, but in the NY and NJ area alone, Girardi was top at 40%. That’s very interesting and seems to reflect the sentiments on this blog.
Pete – could you please put up the manager poll results again?? Thanks.
Do you think the Yankees are asking who they would want on their coaching staff? So they know if they can tell Bowa no matter who the manager is you will have a job. He will be the biggest loss.
you trade for Santana only if you extend him. thats the point of having to trade so much in value to get him.
Long time – What do you base your Santana not being as dominant theory on? Did you know that in his so called “down” year his gave up the fewest Walks/Hits per inning and was second in strikeouts. I would love for just one of the Yankees pitchers to have that sort of “down” year.
long time – that’s assuming the twins don’t trade him to another team during the winter and get an extension. I seriously doubt any team would trade several top prospects/players for a one year rental without getting a window for negotiating an extension with Santana.
Santana will probably be traded before he reaches Free Agency. That said, a proposed trade of Wang/IPK or Hughes/Melky is ridiculous!
Wang is not in Santana’s league, Hughes or IPK could be but its too early to tell.
Nonethless, a combination of Wang/IPK or Wang/Hughes will likely win 30-35 games a season…..Santana will never equal that.
Stay the course with our rospects.
“IMO, I’d do Wang, Melky and Hughes OR IPK OR prospect. No Cano and No combination of Hughes/Kennedy plus prosect.”
thank God for Brian Cashman.
Hughes is NOT inter-changeable with Kennedy.
and you would trade Wang and Hughes, but not Hughes and Kennedy?? i love how Kennedy has now passed Wang with Yankee fans based on 19 innings and 2 bad outings from Wang.
so you would trade Wang and Hughes, but not Hughes and Kennedy?? that’s nuts.
the Yankees are NOT trading Hughes or Joba. it’s just not happening.
I”m tired of hearing all the radio broadcasters saying that Yankee fans want Donnie, we have a wide range of views on this blog, but I think for the most part we are in agreement of not wanting Donnie to manage and wanting Joe G. The radio guys are very out of touch with what the real Yankee fans want.
Gene “Stick” Michael has had an interesting baseball career. He’s one of 3 Yankees that have been a player, coach, manager, and general manager with the Yankee with Lou Piniella and Ralph Houk the others.
He’s held a variety of front office positions and in many ways has been trusted more by George than anybody else during the Steinbrenner years. If there’s a meeting of importance, “Stick” is sure to be present.
Let’s review quickly:
Josh Beckett’s Cy Young year (20-7)
30 Games, 200.2 IP, 189 H, 76 R, 17 HR, 40 BB, 194 SO, 1.14 WHIP, .245 BAA, 3.27 ERA
Santana’s “non-dominant” year (15-13)
33 Games, 219 IP, 183 H, 88 R, 33 HR, 52 BB, 235 SO, 1.07 WHIP, .225 BAA, 3.33 ERA
Nice non-dominant year.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Everyone should just relax… there is regime change at the Yankees. Torre quiting (and he did quit) was bad PR for the Yankees — but unless Torre was permitted to leave on his own terms and with his own timing, this was going to be an issue.
How will the structure work itself among Cashman, Levine and the various Steinbrenners? It remains to be seen. Levine stuck his head out and it was chopped off by the media.
The Yankees have a lot of issues to address this off season, but they also have a lot of promising young talent. Not all is bad — and a good first step would be to hire Girardi as manager.
“As the events of the past week have shown us,that no longer appears to be true.They (the Levinesteins)will now low ball certain players,hello Arod, cut as much as possible from payroll and POUR THAT SAVINGS AND EVERY OTHER NICKEL THEY CAN…….INTO THEIR POCKETS.”
really, i must have missed all that. i wasn’t aware that the yankees tried to lowball A-Rod. last i heard was that they were preparing him, Mo, and Posada extremely generous offers. but why let facts get in the way of a good rant?
i guess we can all infer this simply b/c they didn’t think the beloved Joe Torre deserved a raise.
just b/c not everyone thinks Torre was doing as great a job as you do doesn’t mean the Yankees are going to start low-balling their players. it doesn’t even make sense if you think about it.
point is if that’s what it takes to get Santana they can keep him he is not worth it no one else could offer that package this is starting to look like Gagne all over everyone was willing to give up IPK for a 2 month rental, how did that work out i’ll take my chance in 08 as a free agent
Levine stuck his neck out being a media hound.He deserves all the bad press he gets.He crafted a deal that Torre couldn’t accept,and he now wants to distance himself from the fallout.Some yankee fans as well as some of the media saw through his act,and aren’t buying it.Levine is a snake!
hmmm
no – I’d trade Wang and Hughes or Wang and Kennedy but NOT Hughes and Kennedy.
Either Hughes or Kennedy, not both.
Randy l
“i think they didn’t a make the playoffs in 2005 because they went too far in the younger and cheaper grow your own philosophy when they rushed their young relievers hansen and delcarmen and passed on abreau. they realized they misread the market and reversed their plan and went out and overspent signing matsuzaka, drew, and lugo.”
Firstly the Red Sox were swept out of the playoffs in 2005, last year is when they missed the playoffs. Secondly, what you describe above, does that sound like stable ownership to you? One year after crying broke about Abreu they turn around and spend a ton of money, on three players who haven’t exactly been worth it. And this makes you think their ownership situation is better than the Yankees?
The thing with the Yankees is not they haven’t had solid baseball people over the past few years but they have had an intruding owner who thought he knew more about baseball then he really did. Every time the team didn’t win the WS George felt the need to go out and sign whomever to get the team where it needed to be. He was relatively quiet in the late nineties when the team was winning. But all of a sudden the WS lost to the D’backs (he couldn’t stand Colangelo sp) he felt the need to sign a big bopper: Jason Giambi, who at the time there was some talk of him being a roid user. Anyway George signed him. I’m not sure but I don’t think Cashman,G.Micheal was 100% behind than move. That started a bad trend for the Yankees of ‘If we don’t win the WS we every year have to continue to go out and get another All*Star’.
My point is when things didn’t go well Gorge all ways felt the need to take control and not let his baseball people handle what they needed to. An intruding owner causes a lot of problems.
so you think that’s worth a starint CF a 19 game winner and a number 1 prospect give me a break. put up his 06 numbers those 07 #’s are a big fall off
Jennifer, Joe Girardi said on the teleconference that they didn’t discuss coaching staff, which kind of surprised me actually if the interview lasted 6 hours.
I agree it’s a big loss if Bowa leaves. Just look at what happened to Cleveland at game 7. Bowa would have sent Kenny Loften home without a doubt and completely changed the momentum of that game.
I don’t think Pena’s chances are great. I really think its between Girardi and Mattingly.
If the Yankees want to hire Joe Girardi, they are faced with a very difficult situation re: Don Mattingly.
As Peter has correctly stated on numerous occasions, Mattingly didn’t come out of retirement to become a career coach. Clearly, he wants to manage and he wants to manage the Yankees.
However, if you objectively size up the two candidates (Girardi and Mattingly), its hard to argue Mattingly has an advantage.
Which brings the Yankees to this dilemma. How do you tell Don Mattingly “no”, if you think Girardi is the right guy for the gig?
Joe Girardi and Don Mattingly may be Yankees. However, Don Mattingly is the most popular living Yankee. Nobody gets bigger ovations on Old Timers Day and nobody is more popular with the fans and the media (no small players here) than Don Mattingly.
If Joe Girardi doesn’t get the job, he doesn’t go away feeling dissed. If Don Mattingly doesn’t get it? Who knows how that shakes out but, I have the feeling it doesn’t go well.
This is trickier than the Torre stuff. Torre has his legacy. Five years from now, NOBODY, even Joe Torre, won’t care how it ended. He had a great run.
If the Yankees think Girardi is the best guy for the job, how do they tell Don Mattingly “no”, and keep him part of the family?
An off-season in which Joe Torre and Don Mattingly both feel dissed enough not to return makes for messy, messy PR.
This is a situation (if they want Girardi to be the manager) that’s going to require real diplomacy and not bluster from the parties involved.
The first test of this new regime is not the Torre stuff. Its the hiring of a new manager. Its going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
sunny615,
You do realize that Hughes is a bettter prospect than Joba? He’s the only player in our system I would absolutley not trade.
long time – How about Buccholtz, Crisp and DMat… that sounds like a good deal for Santana… and if Boston does make that trade… who here would be pissed we didn’t get him?
Wang’s vulnerability was exposed in the ALDS… he has no plus secondary pitches to fall back on if his sinker isn’t working. All his pitches stay up in the zone. Yes he’s a two time 19 game winner so far, and I love him, and he’s proven… but if it’s him and Melky (and maybe a prospect) for the undisputed best pitcher in baseball, IMO, that’s a no brainer.
I would agree B, but a prospect is just that – a prospect. Santana is a proven commodity – in the AL no less. Hughes has potential and he may well be a great pitcher, but at the moment, Santana is a better pitcher than Hughes.
“no – I’d trade Wang and Hughes or Wang and Kennedy but NOT Hughes and Kennedy.
Either Hughes or Kennedy, not both.”
ok, but i think you are crazy if you would trade Wang and Hughes.
i also don’t see how Kennedy has moved past Wang. we have a pretty good idea of what type of pitcher wang is. we have absolutely no idea what type of pitcher kennedy will be.
I don’t think Santana will be available to an AL team, but if he is. I’d try to trade Wang, Kennedy, and Melky for him. That’s probably not enough though.
My hope for the yankees in this new era,PLEASE DEVELOPE THE FARM SYSTEM.
When the yankees import players from other teams,some don’t seem to be motivated when they get here.Then, the Yankees are stuck with this nonperforming asset.ie pavano,giambi to name a few.
How’s Santana been in the Playoffs? How about a 1-4 record with a 4 ERA. we already got plenty of those guys. All i’m saying last he gave up 33 HRs his walk total was up his K’s were down his ERA was up over the last 4 Years yeah he was comparable to Beckett but wouldn’t give Hughes wang cabrerra for Beckett would you?
Look, don’t get me wrong, if we can get Santana without dealing Hughes, color me happy, but no one’s going to give you Santana for Karstens, Rasner, Farnsworth, Clippard, DeSalvo, and/or Wright as much as I wish it were possible.
Ok Ok we get it. Isn’t it obvious that the Yankees would only trade for Santana if an extension was part of the deal?
Also, I love Melky as much as the next guy but he’s no “star”.
A Package of Wang(centerpiece), Kennedy, and Melky would be extremely tempting to nab Santana. That trade would also shoot the Yankees into Rowand talks.
Like all trades it’s a risk, but the payout can be huge. Potentially having Santna(28), Chamberlain, and Hughes anchoring your starting rotation for many years is beyond words!
Regarding all the praise for the Red Sox: imagine that the Indians third base coach sends Lofton home, and somehow the Indians win Game 7. Would we all be praising them now as having these wonderful baseball minds?
And how can anyone say they think Girardi has more or enough experience? I will grant you that a year as a manager is great — that makse two years for him as a coach/manager. Donnie has 4 years with the Yanks as a coach. And Florida ain’t New York City.
Uh, Hughes is NOT a better prospect than Joba. Not even close.
Joba Chamberlain has FOUR plus pitches. Hughes has one and a half.
Hughes is a very, very good prospect. Joba is a once in a generation-type of arm.
I doubt the Twins would trade for Wang given his record on turf, even though they are building an outdoor stadium.
If its Hughes, Kennedy and Melky for Santana, the Yankees better hope Alan Horne is ready for a role with the big club next year.
That’s a LOT to give up for one player.
I’m all for making a run at Santana. I just don’t want to give up too much for him. That would be dumb.
4 years as coach is not managerial experience. Girardi has some. That’s pretty much why he has more than Donnie. Very simple math.
sunny615
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Santana’s “non-dominant� year (15-13)
33 Games, 219 IP, 183 H, 88 R, 33 HR, 52 BB, 235 SO, 1.07 WHIP, .225 BAA, 3.33 ERA
Nice non-dominant year.
I wish all Yankee pitchers sucked that bad and were that consistently non dominant….Nice Call!
How about Santana for Wang,Horne,Marquez,Melky.
raymagnetic-
sorry about that 2005 reference when i obviously meant 2006.
do i think that self made red sox owner who has a passion for baseball and, even after taking hits to his hedge fund, is worth about three billion dollars is a better owner than the inexperienced steinbrenner sons who have been given control of the team by their dad who’s net worth is considerably less than henry’s?
you betcha.
those two trips to the world series in the last four years seem to back up my position. and if you think living on cape cod surrounded by red sox fans, i’m happy about that, you’d be wrong.
No more tears for Joe.
The fact is that Torre got the contract offer he deserved and YES! He could have accepted it! Look at the market, the tools he was given and the performance. Maybe the Yankees should have negotiated a little more with him, but if they were not going to guarantee a second year, there was very little to talk about.
Or maybe the Yankees should have offered him $6 or 7 million over two years without incentives. Who knows. Is that less insulting?
SJ44,
Let me know when Joba is throwing more than 5 or 6 innings. He’s done it like twice.
no offense to Wang, cause I really do love him, but that certainly beats 0-2 with a 19.06 ERA in the last two.
in 2006 – His one (win) start vs Detroit
4.05 ERA
On a side note, if it meant winning the ALDS vs Cleveland, Beating the Red Sox in the ALCS in 6 or 7 games to get to the World Series, – hell yes…
It may be rash, but I’d rather trade Wang, Melky and see if we could go with one of the double A guys — Marquez or Horne. That Red Sox trade you suggested is interesting, Sunny, although I doubt they trade Buchholtz, and the players we would be offering would be cheaper (although Dice-K would give the Twins some true cost certainty over the next 5 years).
Longtime your painting a weak picture. Santanas “off year” consists of a 3.33 ERA, 15 wins, and a brilliant whip of 1.07.
His walks/k ratio of 52/235 is nothing look down on.
I’ll take his 33 HR’s given up as an anomaly and not the norm. Sort of like Beckett from last year. Lastly it’s pretty amazing that he put up those numbers on a not-so-good Twin team. His “down year” would be *career years* for about 95% of pitchers in baseball up to and including Wang.
The Twins will be looking for quality, not quantity, if they trade Santana.
You can’t give them “B” List guys and think its enough to get him.
Its why I don’t think they deal him this off-season. I think they get more if they move him at the deadline next season.
The Braves gave up a ton for Texieira. I don’t see teams draining their coffers AND coming up with 100+ million bucks for Santana this off-season.
SJ44: “If Joe Girardi doesn’t get the job, he doesn’t go away feeling dissed. If Don Mattingly doesn’t get it? Who knows how that shakes out but, I have the feeling it doesn’t go well.”
But the Donnie situation will be a thousand times worse if he does get the job, we have a losing season and Yanks have to fire him.
I agree with you the Torre situation is not the trickiest they had to handle. Don Mattingly is.
Chuck — I think it would have been less insulting to go for two years at $6-7 million. Stein Junior is pleased to mention where Torre was before the Yankees, but his Dad didn’t have such a good record in the 12 years before Joe joined the team….
SJ44, Joba has 4 plus pitches? I watched the kid pitch in the minors and I can assure you he does not have 4 plus pitches. More like 2. His change-up and curve are average and inconsistent. He needs to develop those pitches more. Most of his K’s in the minors came off of his slider. He was predominately a fastball/slider guy rarely throwing his curve/change-up. That’s going to have to change in the majors.
Clearly B, you didn’t watch Chamberlain in the minors. I did.
He was throwing 100 in the 6th and 7th innings of several of his starts this year.
Since when is Phil Hughes a “workhorse”? He rarely threw more than 5 innings in his starts this year and his stuff was noticably weaker as he went deeper into games.
Hughes’ minor league career number AVERAGE barely 5 innings per start.
You have no idea what you are talking about when comparing the two guys. There isn’t a GM in the game who thinks Phil Hughes is a better prospect than Joba Chamberlain.
Uh, Justin? I can do math , too. The point is not that Donnie has four years as a coach, and Joe has one as a coach and one as a manager. The point is that some fans are inflating one year with a rebuilding club as something it is not. Donnie coached, watched and learned for four years in New York. I don’t deny that there is no sibstitute for experience, but let’s keep in mind that one year in Florida is about as minimal as it gets.
I’d have to agree with SJ44 (big surprise), the Twin won’t trade Santana unless someone gives up the big prospects and for us – that’d be Joba… and Cash won’t give away Joba even for Santana.
“Look, don’t get me wrong, if we can get Santana without dealing Hughes, color me happy, but no one’s going to give you Santana for Karstens, Rasner, Farnsworth, Clippard, DeSalvo, and/or Wright as much as I wish it were possible.”
i get all of this. but offering Wang already takes the trade out of the Karstens/Rasner/Clippard arena or silly trade proposals.
Wang by himself would not be enough i agree, but people are underestimating Wang’s value here based on 2 bad starts in the playoffs.
Joba’s 12 to 6 curveball is a plus pitch. He threw it more in AA than he did in AAA and the majors because the Yankees wanted him to only throw two pitches out of the ‘pen.
His two seam and four seam fastball are plus pitches.
So are his slider and his curveball.
His changeup is a work in progress.
However, his other 4 pitches? All plus pitches with two (the 4 seamer and the slider) being off the chart.
Well, let’s be fair to Hughes — the Yankees were severely limiting his pitches in the minors so as not to burn him out. I agree Joba is probably the stronger prospect today, but I think the innings and pitches both guys have thrown have been dictated by the “Rules” and not their arms.
Dee thanks I missed that. I’m a little suprised that they woudn’t ask, because you do get a little more insight into the man who will manage.
I agree with hmmmm… Wang has pitched very well for two years and is still very young (and not close to being a FA). He has a lot of value. Obviously, it would take more to get Santana, but I think he is a good start at a deal.
Joe Girardi has the trifecta when it comes to experience.
He has a year under New York coaching.
He has a year under managing with Flordia. I wouldn’t say minimal as he did win Manager of the year with an amazingly low payroll.
Last and not least, he has a year under broadcasting for the Yankees which I think is very important for him if he gets the job. Handling the media daily as the manager is a huge task.
What is wrong with a rotataion of Hughes, Joba, Wang, Andy, maybe Moose, with IPK in the wings, maybe another prospect ready by mid-season? I kow it is rookie-heavy, but let’s not buy another arm on the way down, as Santana may be.
One thing I like about Mattingly is that he played in the pre-Torre era, when the Boss rattled his sabre and the whole team felt it. I think he would come to the job with his eyes wide open. That said, I think it will be difficult for anyone to have more success than Torre did, and the comparisons are inevitable…
It is not a plus pitch. It has the potential but it is not right now. He doesn’t get it over the plate consistently enough either.
Since when does Joba throw a 2 seam fastball? I certainly haven’t seen it. Just about every fastball is 98 with little movement. That’s 4 seamer for you.
Anyone see Rob Neyer’s Bog on ESPN.com?
————————————————————
I can’t speak to the accuracy of these Yankees-related rumors, but they’re certainly intriguing …
A source of mine with Yankee connections had some good info for me today. Much was discussed yesterday in Tampa.
For starters, the Yanks are expected to make “eye-popping” offers to retain Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera before the World Series ends. The team does not want the pair to file for free agency.
Additionally, the Yankees may make a big play for Aaron Rowand. They believe a package of Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, and Ian Kennedy would entice the Twins for Johan Santana. That’s a huge price, but doesn’t seem out of line to me for the best pitcher in baseball.
My source didn’t have anything about Andy Pettitte, who hated seeing Joe Torre go and will take a month to decide if he’s even going to play next year.
What I’ve been saying for a few weeks is that of the Yankees’ three non-Alex Rodriguez question marks — Posada, Rivera, Pettitte — at least two of them will return next season. Posada and Rivera will, like most free agents, go where the money is, and there probably will be more money in the Bronx than elsewhere. Pettitte’s situation is a bit more complicated, as he’s got a player option for $16 million.
I’m just a bit skeptical about the Cabrera/Wang/Kennedy suggestion, but if the Yankees do offer that package for Santana, the Twins have to make that deal, don’t they? Wang’s going to get fairly expensive in a couple of years, but if he gets too expensive the Twins can just flip him in another deal. It seems to me that if the Twins made this deal and Francisco Liriano comes back fairly strong, the Twins begin next season as contenders.
Global Warmer,
I agree with a lot of that. My comment about it being minimal is that the expectation in Florida was about zero, unlike just about any other town. But I am not sure the job in the booth makes it that much easier to handle the media all that much. No one questions you in the booth.
I just think too many people have jumped on the Girardi Bandwagon a little early. I would be happy either way, but is there no love for Donnie out there?
How is Santana on his way down? Do people realize he is 28, and that if he had the same secondary stats with the Yankees, he would have easily been a 20 game winner?
Joba is going to be limited in terms of innings next year, and I can’t see the Yankees not bringing in another veteran to add some reliability to the staff.
Thanks Bob. The offer for Santana intrigues me, although I wonder if Horne could be substituted for Kennedy. I think Melky is trade bait this year with Rowand and the other FA CFs on the market.
Jimbo,
Are you going to cry if they give Girardi the job?…What will you do when Mattingly is struggling? Girardi is the right man to amange this team now. Donnie baseball not a hall of famer, not the man for the job now. To all other fans if you manager was fired today, who would you wnt to mange your team Mattingly or Girardi? Not even close. Go Northwestern!!
I’d sign up for a rotation with Pettitte, Santana, Hughes, and Chamberlain as your first 4.
Think the playoffs might have ended a bit differently this year with that?
“Think the playoffs might have ended a bit differently this year with that?”
they wouldn’t have ended.
Bob- We would still be playing with that kind of rotation. Those top four pitchers are as good as it gets.
_Bob- We would still be playing with that kind of rotation. Those top four pitchers are as good as it gets._
That is a point that I believe is probably very true. It also means that it probably doesn’t matter who the manager is as long as they build that rotation with quality guns.
It’s all about pitching and a lot less to do with the manager.
Dee and Jennifer –
In the conference call yesterday, Dan Graziano of the Star Ledger asked Joe Girardi if they had discussed with Joe the possibility of his taking a coaching position if they didn’t ask him to take the managerial job. Joe responded that they did not speak to him about the possibility of coaching, it is was strictly a managerial interview.
I just wanted to clear up that he was not asked by the writers about his prospective coaching staff.
Plus if he opts out that just shows me how phony he was that he “loves� NY etc was all bs.
You mean like when he “loved” Seattle, and he “loved” Texas, and for a brief minute “loved” Boston? He loves the place that’s paying him. It might be NY, and it might not, but we’ve seen enough of him to know that wherever that may be, he’s going to “love” it.
Let’s be realists here.
Any Santana talk is premature and will start with what Torii Hunter does. If he elects free agency then the Twins need a CF which is the door opener for any expanded deal involving Melky and others for Santana. That in turn triggers the Yankees to sign Aaron Rowand to replace Melky leaving the haggling of what pitchers can or will be talked about to finalize a deal with Minnesota.
This has the potential to be the deal of the offseason in all of baseball unless the Yankees choose to wait until Santana is a free agent in 2009.
This can also be influenced by Andy Pettitte’s player option next year. Without him the Yankees have no lefthander in the starting rotation which brings more urgency in having Santana before free agency.
Chess anybody ???
I’d sign up for a rotation with Pettitte, Santana, Hughes, and Chamberlain as your first 4.
So, you’d take the best pitcher in the game you don’t have yet, Pettitte (who’s probably not going to come back, Hughes, and Joba?
Wish much?
If Santana is on this team, it’s becuase Hughes or Chamberlain, or both, are in Minny. Minny isn’t going to settle for Wang, who’s not even good away from the Bronx, and especially on turf (though the new field is grass..or that fake football grass), when they could have top pitching prospects from other organizations. It’s a nice thought, but Santana comes a high price, so if you want him, you better come up with two other starters not named Hughes or Joba.
Also, and I dare mention it, both are essentially rookies, who have yet to really prove anything consistently at this level, and as a starter. Yeah, they’re both good, but I’d rather have only one of them to really have to count on in the playoffs. I don’t mean to sound down, but Joba has yet to throw an inning as a starter for the Yankees, and you’ve already got him changing the outcome of the playoffs.
Lets relax a bit. Santana would be nice, but no package the Yankees put together will get him without Hughes or Joba, or both, and that includes Wang and Melky. They’re not stupid, and they can get top pitching from other teams, so they won’t settle for less from NY. Especially with the situation NY is in.
Plus, Minny could just sign Rowand themselves, let Hunter go, and concentrate on pitchers in the deal, in which case, the Yankees wont make the move. They’re not going to give Hughes, Joba (or again, both) with Wang.
Minny isn’t stupid, and we all know what the asking price will be for Santana. A LOT.
Wang hasn’t shown anyone in baseball that he can be as successful away from NY, and especially on turf, so I can’t imagine that Minny is jumping at the proverbial bit to land Wang alone – and after this playoffs, it’s only worse for the NY side of the argument in negotiations.
I say keep Joba, keep Hughes, and any deal that involves anyone not them, make it.
If Minny accepted a deal that was of Melky, Wang, and Kennedy, then great. They’re stupid, but great for NY.
It’s too early to even think about this. LAA will most certainly be in the mix, and can put together as lucrative if not better, package than NY. Not to mention Boston, the Mets, Dodgers, Giants and others.
We’re most certainly not the front of the pack without Hughes or Joba in the mix. Not even close.
It’s a huge decision, that frankly, I’m glad I’m not making.
those days are over if you have good young pitching you keep it Minny will not get better than Melky and Wang and a marginal lower level prospect. to give up top prospects and everyday players and then have too sign him for 5 years 115 million is stupid. you saw the lack of trades the last 2 or 3 years everyone is keeping thier prospects.
Dear Been Around
Yes, I will cry if Joe G. gets the job. I am like Suzyn W., I get all emotional.
Also, I did not realize that since Donnie is not in the HOF he should not manage. I forgot that rule.
What happens if Girardi struggles? Will he bring all his vast Florida eperience to bear? Or will they call on Donnie to save the day if possible?
My point is that I think Donnie can handle the job,
Dear Been Around
Yes, I will cry if Joe G. gets the job. I am like Suzyn W., I get all emotional.
Also, I did not realize that since Donnie is not in the HOF he should not manage. I forgot that rule.
What happens if Girardi struggles? Will he bring all his vast Florida experience to bear? Cuz we all know he was in a tight race right up the the end in FLorisa, wasn’t he?
Not saying Joe G. is not a good choice. But to say Donnie is not capable, well I think that is a bit much.
My point is that I think Donnie can handle the job.
Jimbo,
Touche, but remember there is no crying in baseball. The Yankees have to look at the big picture, two or three years down the road, How do they fire Don mattingly if thing don’t work out? I go back to my other point, I think Donnie was the type of player that played at such a huge level and demanded so much from himself that if and when he is faced with the prospect of a player or team that is not giving the effort that he gave all of the time, he like a Magic Johnson or a Ted Williams or Larry Bird will say that this is not for me. Keith Hernandez has said that, that is the main reason that he has never gotten into coaching or had the desire to manage. Joe Girardi approaches managing from a different plane. How many superstars have been successful managers? And no I don’t consider Torre to have been a superstar at the level of Donnie Baseball.
Hawk, do realize what kind of extension Santana is gonna get? It is gonna be for historic $$$. Not many of those teams, if any are gonna pay that kind of money on top of giving up top prospects.
Minnesota’s not in the prime position here that so many think they are.
Doreen – thanks for clarifying. Sorry I was pulling a Chip Caray around here!
Been Around,
Great points. All I can add is that this will be veeeeery interesting.
How can people start saying cash is losing power and Levine is gaining it? Cash;s job is to make trades and sign free agents no? Why cant the president and owners have a say in signing the manager? Why should it be in the hands of the GM or in one mans hands at all? This is more of a franchise decision. And they are still letting Cashman have a say. And cash has not made the greatest decisions in the last couple of yrs either, with all his failings he should be losing power. When Levine starts signing free agents and trying to trade for Santana, then you can start to post how Cash is losing power. The World series isnt even over, people have to relax, the king of horrible decision isnt losing anything unfortunately. I for one, cant wait until cash’s yankee career is over and he can go destroy another team. I dunno why people defend the guy with their life, like he has done anything to help this team. NEWSFLASH: The scouts decided to pick Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy not the GM. Cash was the one that signed Farnsworthless, Pavano, Wright, Johnson, Moose to a two yr contract last yr. He was the one that gave pettitte a player option. He traded for Vizcaino and ohelendorf instead of Micah Owings. He traded away Proctor when we desparately needed bullpen help. He gave clemens a prorated 28 million to go six and six (granted I would have made that signing.) He signed Kevin Brown and Jeff Weaver to waste a couple of million dollars here and there. He completely ignored the bullpen last off season when guys like Justin Speiers and Jamie Walker were free agents. He did not attempt to re-sign Tom Gordon by offering him a massive chunk of change after he had served to solify our bullpen the prior season. He was the one that completely ignored the bench deciding to waste our money on 40 plus yr old arms and stick sal fasano, wil nievers and kelly stinett on the bench to backup a catcher in his mid 30s. He signed a lefty hitter to play first when we had a ridiculously lefty heavy lineup already. He traded away our best right handed bat to the team that knocked us out of the playoffs that season for a pitcheer that had been injurred eight times before the age of 22. He refused to allow Britton to become a major leaguer after trading Jaret wright for him and agree to pay most of the salary.
LEVINE IS JUST ACTING AS A SCAPEGOAT TO ALL YOU FANS WHO WORSHIP CASHMAN ON A NIGHTLY BASIS – LIKE MIKE AND THE MADDOG. Now, when cash fails miserably once again, everyone can blame levine instead of cashman. Similar to blaiming steinbrenner and the tampa faction earlier when Cash was ruining our team. Keep praising cashman for things he takes little or no part in like the draft while absolving him of the blame for signing horrible free agents and making stupid trades (Which is his job!)
“And while we’re at it, let me disclose this bit of personal history: when my wife’s best friend was dying in 1998, her fiancé failed to persuade the city clerk’s office to waive the 24-hour waiting period for a marriage license. She might not have a day, he pleaded. My wife asked me if I could help, and I called Levine, the deputy mayor at the time, whom I barely knew. He quickly dispatched someone to expedite the license. My wife’s friend and fiancé were married later that day. She died the next day.”
That scumbag Levine! Fire him!
I suppose the morons that flamed the Levine the past few days won’t come out of hiding any time soon.
Re: Peter Gammons/Levine, Raissman, NY Daily News 5/21/07 reported Gammons’ words on ESPN TV to Jon Miller during a recent Yankee Met game. They were discussing rumors that Torre would be fired, Gammons said the word was Levine did not like Torre so if Torre was out it might stem from him. Raissman then told how Gammons himself had a previous run in with Levine, and as a result the 2 were not on speaking terms. (Gammons had reported something Levine objected to, Levine called Gammons’ superior to complain, etc.)The NY Times Sandomir article from yesterday is a direct result of Levine calling Sandomir on Sunday and giving him the words. It was nothing to do with anyone else or anyone looking for a scapegoat. Re Mike and the Mad Dog, they mainly confirmed what others have recently said, that there’s been long standing situation of Levine and Torre not getting along. That doesn’t make Mike and Chris idiots at all. I understand they also cited sources about Steinbrenner’s being accessible to a telephone for a reporter to transmit ‘Torre’s under the ax’ remarks and I can see people not happy about citing anonymous sources then implicating Levine, but it still doesn’t make them idiots. Most of the rest of the media knew this change in power has been going on for years and sat on the story.
O yea – i forgot one of cash’s biggest blunders- signing a minor league starter in Igawa to a 40 million dollar contract. Cash is such a genius its ridiculous
Susan,
You are telling me Torre was fired because Levine and Torre did not get along and people are buying this. COME ON! Torre should have been fired in 2004 for being the manager during one of the biggest collapses in the history of the sport against our arch rivals. Then, we have failed to even make it past the ALDS for three yrs in a row facing teams that had a half to a quarter of the payroll of the yanks. Can people stop to think that maybe just maybe the yanks did not want torre back because he wasnt getting the job done? And perhaps it had little to do with levine not liking torre. Furthermore, The yanks actually offered torre a reasonably decent contract considering the fact that he continues to fail to live up to expectations yr after yr. Then, torre and the media have the balls to say that he was disrespected. Umm, what am I missing? The yanks sole mission is to win the world series: Everyone knows this, everyone says this on a daily basis – torre has failed them for seven yrs straight. It is time to move on. Who cares if levine doesnt like torre? The organization offered him aqnother contract which refutes some notion that torre was disrespected or that torre was let go. He was also again going to recieve the highest salary of any manager in the sport even tho he isnt even close to the best manager in baseball. And Mike and the maddog go on talking for hours about how the yankee organization should be ashamed of themseleves. They berate callers who try to argue that Torre should have been let go becuz he is failing the franchise and that the team still offered him a contract. They say that power is switching hands becuz torre isnt coming back and levine was the on that did the conference call. Cash is still the one making the trades and signing free agents (even tho he shouldnt be.) All of the big brass is part of the decision to choose the new manager – Not just Levine as it should be. I dont see where they come up with these ideas that they talk about until we are all forced to change the station because they are being so repetitive.
I really dont understand all of these people that support torre decision in the media – any one of them or almost any one in the world would take five million dollars and manager the yanks. That is one of the best deals 99.9 percent of the population can get in their lifetime. Be a celebrity, become rich, be honored by all of NY, be a shoe-in for the playoffs and possibly win the world series. Not to mention, that person would be the highest payed manager in all of baseball. Yet, for torre and the media, it is extremely disrespect and a punishment. After torre does not live up to his name for seven yrs, you havw to expect to be canned. Once again, being offered the highest managerial salary in baseball is a dream. Why is this a deal he couldnt take again? Kruk, Verducci and Mike and Chris are all morons with their heads up Torre’s behind. Pete, why cant you be different and stray from all your mindless media cohorts? It is ridiculous that not a single member of the media sided with the yanks organization in this matter when almost every fan I speak with in real life cant seem to understand the medias perspective at all in this matter or even attempt to explain their opinion to me. What did Torre pay for all the college educations of the media’s children. I dont get it.
Levine was hired for his political connection to get the new stadium done. He may not be the nicest person around, but he is an easy target (to be the scapegoat) in this messy Torre Affair.
“Plus, Minny could just sign Rowand themselves, let Hunter go, and concentrate on pitchers in the deal, in which case, the Yankees wont make the move.”
Minny won’t spend the money on Rowand. The whole point of possibly dealing Santana is that Minny can’t resign both and they want to retain Torii Hunter.