Torre: Length of deal was the issue
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Joe Torre’s HBO interview tonight broke no new ground. But it may have served to clarify some of the lingering issues.
Torre said again that it wasn’t the amount of money that led to him to reject the Yankees; it was the one-year length of the contract. He also reiterated that he felt insulted by the incentives package. As he said, would there be some in-game decision that he would make differently because $1 million was at stake?
Torre also said that he didn’t understand how he wasn’t part of the process. He was the manager of the team for 12 seasons and he wasn’t invited to the organizational meetings after the season. How does that make sense?
Bob Costas asked a good question about whether others in the organization resented his popularity. Torre said that while that may have been the case, he always gave Steinbrenner credit when asked.
I can vouch for that being the case, Torre never failed to thank Steinbrenner and mention his support. Did we always write that? Of course not. It became cliche after a while.
Asked whether he was still angry, Torre said he was sad. It seems pretty clear that Torre still wants to manage the team. And if Yankee officials are to be believed, they wanted him back. But somehow no deal could get done.
Whether you are a fan or Torre or not, the end of his tenure was not a graceful one and that’s a shame. Whoever the next manager would be better served if Torre felt wanted at Yankee Stadium.
Torre will be on Letterman on Monday.
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on Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007 at 10:13 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I will say what i said in the other thread. Enough already it is time for all to move on to the new chapter of the Yankees. This has just become boring. We can all agree that it was handled in the end poorly but like you said there was nothing new in this interview and I am sure if he does another interview there will be nothing new.
“Whether you are a fan or Torre or not, the end of his tenure was not a graceful one and that’s a shame.”
It is, and the reason it is a shame is because Joe Torre brought it on himself, thereby showing a complete lack of respect and appreciation for what the Yankees and George Steinbrenner have done for him.
To make matters worse, it has handled this matter in a very disingenuous manner.
He has assented to incentive laden contracts before, but all of a sudden they are an insult.
Joe Torre has disgraced himself.
Agree that it’s time to move on, but one other interesting shot at Hank/Hal (after saying that the offer wasn’t an insult):
“You have to understand the sport to understand how the incentives are an insult.”
Can we please move past this?
Both sides could have done better in my opinion. Torre is not the martyr he’s being portrayed as.
S–t happens, it’s over, no sense in keep dragging it back up.
Torre is human.
He did not disgrace himself, not in my mind, anyway. He’ll be missed and certainly never forgotten.
Hey Pete, next time you talk to a player ask them if they find the incentives they have in their contracts(for All Star appearances, MVP, Cy Young, etc.) insulting? I mean by including them are the owners infering that without them they wouldn’t be trying to be all stars or MVPs?
“He did not disgrace himself, not in my mind, anyway. He’ll be missed and certainly never forgotten.”
Then please explain why incentives are suddenly insulting when he had no problem with them in the past?
Why did he smear Ian O’Connor on Mike and the Mad Dog (see Phil Musnick’s column).
I wonder what happened to Joe Torre’s class (or calssy guy). He goes into all these interviews and starts whining. He is certainly making Steins look better with his stupidity.
Letterman now?! Oh brother…I guess Joe is going to milk this for all it is worth. I wish he would just jet off to Hawaii already.
Here’s another discrepancy…He couldn’t be bothered to collect his own things from the Stadium, but he’s pissed they didn’t invite him to the postseason meetings. Uh, yeah…that makes plenty of sense!
“It seems pretty clear that Torre still wants to manage the team.”
Thank god, it is not going to happen. Thank you Joe for rejecting the offer.
Joe is gonna have a tough time. I always thought he enjoyed being “The Manager of the New York Yankees” more than he did actually managing the New York Yankees.
BTW, Buster Olney says we could know by Friday.
————————————————————
A source tells ESPN the Magazine’s Buster Olney that it “is a good bet” that the Yankees will name the team’s next manager on Friday — the off day between World Series Games 2 and 3.
Pete,
Torre has had incentives in every deal he signed with the Yankees. I don’t know why that’s upsetting to him now.
He has always had WS bonuses in his contract, usually for a million a pop.
The real reason he’s upset, as you correctly pointed out, is the fact it was a one year offer.
THAT, not the incentives, is what this is all about.
I don’t blame the Yankees for only wanting to sign him to a one year deal.
Could it possibly be that, like a ballplayer, he simply isn’t as good a manager (especially when it comes to handling a pitching staff and in game decisions) as he used to be?
If the organization feels that’s the case, can you blame them for only offering one year?
As far as feeling welcome at Yankee Stadium, I haven’t heard a single person associated with the Yankees say he wouldn’t be welcome at the Stadium. In fact, when he shook George Steinbrenner’s hand on his way out the door in Tampa, Steinbrenner himself told him, “You will always be part of the Yankee Family”.
How is that not making him feel welcome?
The not coming back or feeling unwelcome is coming from one person and that’s Joe Torre.
I can completely understand his disappointment. Really, I can.
But, if he wanted the job, all he had to do was say “yes”. Does he really believe if he said “yes” to the offer, the Steinbrenners would have pulled the offer?
The one question Bob Costas should have asked him is, “Joe, in the spring, you were working on a one year contract extension. If one year was ok in the spring, why wasn’t it ok now”? I’d love to hear the answer to that question.
And, before anybody argues the fact that Tony LaRussa got two years and Joe Torre did not, Tony LaRussa won a WS last year with an 83 win team.
If Joe Torre won the WS this year, I guarantee you the Yankees would have offered him two years. That’s how the biz works. Winning does matter, regardless of the organization.
If Torre really still wanted to manage the team he could have. If he wanted to leave gracefully, he could have retired. Casey Stengal is shedding no tears over Torre’s less-than-graceful departure.
Torre is a fool. He was amenable to a one-year deal before this season, and for less money, but discussions ended without resolution.
Whether anyone likes it or not, the Joe Torre has presided over the Yankees third longest drought in team history of not winning a World Series since 1920. While they’ve made the post season a number of times, they just haven’t delivered the ultimate prize, while having resources many championship teams have never had.
He is a media darling, and is milking this for all it’s worth. Hopefully that Letterman appearance goes well for him. What’s he going to do, read a Top 10 list insulting the team and ownership?
After I log off tonight, I am turning the page on this chapter of the Yankees. Joe T is no longer the manger and in my opionion as not handled this situation well. (just as the Yankees haven’t). Now we get to watch him go on every show imaginable whining about the length (after 3 days ago it was the incentives) I’m very confused as to which it is.
Whats next an interview on Oprah?
I’m done with Joe t.
Well, it was a great 12 years for both Torre and the Yankees, but it’s time to move on. The Yankees have moved on and it would be better for Torre if he does the same. It was a bad parting of the ways but it’s not like anybody can wave a magic wand and get him his job back.
Jennifer- I guess in addition to Oprah he could also appear on Dr. Phil.
SJ, you’re right he had a WS incentive in his last contract. Why is it insulting all the sudden?
————————————————————
3 years/$19.2M (2005-07)
signed extension 4/04
05:$6.1M, 06:$6.1M, 07:$7M
$1M bonus with a World Series victory
2007 salary increased to $7.5M
extension also includes 6-year consulting agreement
I also love how everyone says Ozzie got a extention after a losing season. So that makes it right? Because the white soxs are morons mean we should make a mistake too?
Does anyone else wish the Yanks would take a little more time and interview some more people? I know they’re eager to “fill the void” and appease the angry Torre faithful out there, but I, for one, think maybe they’re rushing this, and, by doing so, might just miss the “best” candidate.
Of course, I like Girardi, Mattingly and Pena, and I’ll wholeheartedly support whoever is chosen, but I just wish they would have been more deliberate about this.
j-dawg- very good!! I missed that one, we can watch Joe cry about being mistreated and dr phil will look to get someone from the yankees on.
Bob- I have a funny feeling they will pay joe to do nothing. (no consulting)
How much of loyalty to a team is loyalty to the owners?
The current owners/ceo managers of the Yankees are either pigs (Levine), ignorant of basefall (Steinbrenner kids), or ignorant (Lopez).
I’ve been a Yankee fan all my life, including the awful era (80’s) when CBS controlled the team. I learned then that the upper management team is really important. Now I’m not about to contribute my money to this group of know-nothings.
No matter who the new manager is, he’ll have to kowtow to a bunch of baseball morons.
Goodby for now to my once beloved Yankees.
I’m with Jennifer on turning the page.
I’m excited to find out who the new manager is so we can move on and start working on next season.
Chicago how are they rushing this? They interviewed for 6 hours!! I’m sure if they think Joe G should be manager they will call him back for another interview.
Does anyone else think “Whoa” is Randy Levine?
Whoa and Co.
You don’t get it. His only other incentive previously was $1 million bonus for winning the WS. Now they said “you have to be motivated.” That is what insulted him. Like somehow he didn’t want to win? Whatever it is you do, do you want to paid a salary or based on incentives that are controlled by 25 other people?
Meanwile, Charlie, Casey is dead.
Chicago Dave: Don’t be silly. He felt when he was manager that he should be involved in discussing the team. Now that he is not manager, he doesn’t feel like going to Yankee Stadium and packing boxes. So he’s having somebody else do it. What is wrong with that?
Some of you people are so angry and bitter. It’s just sad. The guy helped turn your team into a huge winner and they were classy every second. Show some respect.
SJ
Where do you find your info on Torre’s contracts?
From everything I’ve read, he had no bonus’ or incentives until 2002 and then it was a $1M bonus for a WS win.
Joe, your best bet is to appear on the Yes Network for Home Games only. This way you can be with Allie and your daughter. Your 67 going on 68, enjoy your family while you can.
Well good night everyone, I wil try my best to keep my word and not utter that other mangers name. Just as he won’t mention the Yankees.
jennifer – It’s now about the lengths of the interviews they’re doing…
They’re interviewing three guys…One of whom has never managed at all and two other guys who have only managed a few years combined. Also, they’re (potentially) doing all their interviews AND deciding on a winner within 5 days. You don’t think that’s rushing things a bit?
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....60040.html
“Meanwile, Charlie, Casey is dead.”
Um, yeah, I know. But he’s shedding no tears in baseball heaven.
Hey Mark, see ya opening day.
WHOA is Don Imus.
Angry and bitter Pete? That sounds more like description of how the media has been about it.
For the most part we all like torre and fully appreciate what he meant to the team. We just don’t like hearing our team trashed by him now. He wasn’t perfect either.
Peter,
Being paid extra money for winning the WS is still an incentive laden contract, is it not?
If they really thought that he didn’t want to win, they wouldn’t have offered him $5 million for 2008.
I will say this. The Yankees made a mistake by describing the incentives as motivation. They should have used the word reward, for advancing in the playoffs.
But to me those are small points. Torre would still have been the highest paid manager in MLB by far, and no matter what Torre thinks, I don’t believe that the Yankees would have ever had the guts to fire him.
So more likely than not, he would have, at the very least, received yet another one year contract following the 2008 season.
Pete – I did respect Torre while he was the manager, and now I respect the man’s legacy with the Yankees. However, he should show some respect for himself and a) not go on an impromptu public speaking tour, and b) be enough of a man to go back to his old office and carry out his stuff himself.
Let’s put it this way…If a regular stiff (like me) got fired and then sent my girlfriend to get my stuff at the office, you think that would be worthy of “respect.” I don’t…
Jon Heyman has an interesting article today on Torre and what he was willing to accept back in Spring Training:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Incentives to win the world series are one thing but incentives for each round of the playoffs are another.
On Wednesday, Torre will be on Oprah.
On Friday, Torre will be on the Ellen DeGeneres Show!
He will cry on all.
What, he’s not doing The View?????
“What, he’s not doing The View?????”
No – he’s upset at the way they treated Rosie. He feels her pain.
“Incentives to win the world series are one thing but incentives for each round of the playoffs are another.”
Could you flesh that out, because I don’t see a major difference.
But why even focus on the incentives. He was still getting $1.5 million more than the next highest paid manager.
That’s hardly an insult.
Horrors! He’s not cleaning out his office. Players pay the clubhouse guys to clean out their lockers, do you not “respect” them for that too? He didn’t ask his wife to do it. That’s the kind of stuff that a personal assistant does on a routine basis.
Since Torre was offered a 1 year extension in Spring training, in essence that would be a 2 year deal including 2007. Last week they could have given him 2 years & had Mattingly taken over at the end of that commitment, sort of passing the baton. It’s obvious, that if the Yankees had gotten off to another bad start this year he would be fired, Torre knows Steinbrenner would be less likely to let him go when he had to pay him another 5-6 million guaranteed.
pat – And what exactly about Torre’s firing was “routine?” It’s a different situation and you know it…
pat –
P.S. – I’ve missed your covert “Wang is an ace” diatribes lately. What, have you lost some steam since his epic failures in those two ALDS starts against the Tribe?
It’ll be interesting to read the comments here from the 2000 bandwagon jumpers at this time next year when the Yankees finish third to the Bosox and Blue Jays…if any of them are left on the bandwagon.
Welcome back to the 80s.
“Some of you people are so angry and bitter. It’s just sad. The guy helped turn your team into a huge winner and they were classy every second. Show some respect.”
Pete, it is about time to stop sucking up to Torre and call a spade is a spade. Is he showing respect to the team that made him what he is today? Enough said.
Bye the way, you asked a good qeustion to Mattingly today. His answer to your question probalby killed his chances to be the manager. I think the Yankee brass are brilliant in arranging these interviews as they have to make sure the new manager hadnles the press well.
Let me get this straight – he cries after the indian series because he thinks its his last game in pinstripes after Geroge’s comments the previous week. Then, A WEEK LATER MIND YOU, he turns down five million plus three more in incentives because he thinks that he is going to get a multiyear deal. Dude, you just cried your eyes out because you thought it was your last game and they werent re-signing you and now you are asking for a multi year contract. Was he on drugs? So he was thinking he was going to get let go and a week later he is thinking about being resigned for many years to come. wHAT CHANGED IN THAT WEEK? Then, NOT EVEN A WEEK LATER he says that he is sad because he still wanted to manage the team… Wait a minute now, They offered you a contract – you could have still managed the team. You could have managed the yanks while still being the highest payed manager in baseball times two. I dont get it. And somehow thru all this the media has the balls to say torre was disgraced or dishonored. I could have guessed all this was coming and the media didnt see it?
He also says he should be invited to the meetings in tampa. They were discussing his future and debating the contract they would offer him in those meetings. Why would he be invited to them? Normal people in the real world dont get invited to the meeting where the heads of a bussinesses discuss your future or your salary. What is he above all this – THE GOD OF YANKEES UNIVERSE?
I dont quite get torres thought process throughout this whole ordeal. He thinks his career with the yanks is over and then a couple of days later he thinks he deserves a multi year contract. he turns down five million to manage but a couple of days later he is sad because he cant manage the yankees. Torre refuses to be the highest payed manager in baseball any more and the media cries for him. Torre cant lead his team to a world championship for seven consecutive yrs while steinbrenner spends a billion dollars on salary buit torre feels he doesnt need incentives. Torres contract has been full of incentives for the past decade but all of a sudden he is insulted by the idea of incentives. The yankees lose and the majority of the media think torre should be fired one season and the yanks offer torre a contract and the media says torre was disrespected the next season. Its just laughable.
If you think the answer Donnie gave to the Yankee brass to the question Pete asked was the same as he gave the media, you’re being foolish.
Donnie isn’t gonna second guess Torre in public and open up that can of worms, but I’m sure he did in his interview.
“It’ll be interesting to read the comments here from the 2000 bandwagon jumpers at this time next year when the Yankees finish third to the Bosox and Blue Jays…if any of them are left on the bandwagon.
Welcome back to the 80s.”
Please reconcile the Yankees’ ascendancy under Buck Showalter with your baseless assertion, paying particular attention to the 1994 season (shortened by the lockout) when they had the best record in the AL, and the 1995 season when they made the playoffs for the first time since 1981.
…….Torre absolutely without question blew the Steins out of the water tonight. He made them look petty and small. Torre was dignified and a pro, and he protected Stein when he could have buried him and little fat Stein. Torre should still be the manager. They did him and Yankees fans wrong.
Pete, thank you for standing up for the hard work and class act that Joe brought to work every single day the past 12 seasons. It’s sad to see some fans not respect that dedication Joe had to the game, and to the New York Yankees.
Like they say, “you don’t know what you have until it’s gone”. Those that are angry and bitter at Torre will see the impact of Torre’s absence starting next season.
Thank you Joe, for letting me enjoy arguably the best 12 years of baseball, mystique, and grace that I will witness in my life.
“If you think the answer Donnie gave to the Yankee brass to the question Pete asked was the same as he gave the media, you’re being foolish.”
If he gave different answers that is even worse. It will become a credibility issue in the eyes of the management/employer.
Bob – That’s an excellent point!
Time for me to hit the hay…Back for more hot stove gossip tomorrow!!!
“I’ve been a Yankee fan all my life, including the awful era (80’s) when CBS controlled the team.”
Big Stein has controlled the team since 1972.
“1995 season when they made the playoffs for the first time since 1981.”
14 year droughts are awesome huh?
“14 year droughts are awesome huh?”
The point is that Torre had NOTHING to do with ending the drought.
“Torre also said that he didn’t understand how he wasn’t part of the process. He was the manager of the team for 12 seasons and he wasn’t invited to the organizational meetings after the season. How does that make sense?”
maybe because they were discussing whether or not to bring Joe Torre back as manager?
I dont quite get torres thought process throughout this whole ordeal. He thinks his career with the yanks is over and then a couple of days later he thinks he deserves a multi year contract. he turns down five million to manage but a couple of days later he is sad because he cant manage the yankees. Torre refuses to be the highest payed manager in baseball any more and the media cries for him. Torre cant lead his team to a world championship for seven consecutive yrs while steinbrenner spends a billion dollars on salary buit torre feels he doesnt need incentives. Torres contract has been full of incentives for the past decade but all of a sudden he is insulted by the idea of incentives. The yankees lose and the majority of the media think torre should be fired one season and the yanks offer torre a contract and the media says torre was disrespected the next season. Its just laughable
Dave
Sorry Dave, I’ve never been involved in any “Wang is an ace” diatribes. You have me mistaken with someone else.
Whoa
In a business model, incentives are given to change behavior, attitude or motivation. Bonuses are used to reward performance. While it may seem like semantics, incentives carry a negative message and bonuses carry a positive one.
“It’ll be interesting to read the comments here from the 2000 bandwagon jumpers at this time next year when the Yankees finish third to the Bosox and Blue Jays…if any of them are left on the bandwagon.
Welcome back to the 80s.”
oh give me a break.
the yankees are coming off a 94 win season. they have 3 promising pitchers coming up next year and the most talented farm system in all of baseball in terms of pitching talent, and a top 10 system overall.
they have had 3 great drafts in a row and will continue to spend generously on the draft to keep the talent coming.
they have become major players in the international FA market and have signed the top latin player 2-3 years in a row.
Joe Torre is 67. he had 2-3 more years TOPS. he was going to go at some point in the near future.
there is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that this team is about to enter a fallow period reminsicent of the 1980s just because they changed managers.
guess what, Torre was a great guy, but he wasn’t half the manager that some of you think. he was OK. pretty good at handling the media, pretty average overall.
some of the overreactions here are absolutely ridiculous.
please, back up this claim that we are back to the 1980’s with any sort of evidence.
We all love Torre. He was a great manager for the majority of his time with the yanks. But I dont really think he allowed the 200 million dollar team to reach the playoffs the last couple of yrs. I think they can easily reach the playoffs without him in the manager chair. I think the manager has the biggest impact on post-season preformance controlling nerves, motivation and aspects of small ball. Additionally, bullpen management is critical in the playoffs. I think we are going to be better off without him.
I wasnt fine but I was okay that he rejected a contract because it was only one year and he felt he could be fired at any moment with a contract that only guaranteed five million. The media angered me with their assertions that Torre was disrespected and dishonored by the incentives – i thought the arguments were stupid, shallow and ignorant. Now, with torre taking shots at the organization going on every major talk show on tv, I am pissed. He is destroying the respect I have for him. Just stop now Joe – the media has already fought your case to the fans and lost. The worst thing is going to be when he takes less money to manage for a crappier team and try to defend his actions. Good luck!
pat,
Even granting your point for the sake of argument, we are talking about a base salary of $5 million in a universe where $3.5 million is the next highest salary.
If one were to construct a negativity scale, I don’t one can argue that it would even register.
Been away from the site latley, due the firestorms that are engulfing huge segments of So Cal…It is just beyond belief what’s happened here the past few days….As for the Yankke Mgr situation…..Donnie Baseball would reverse much of the bad ink the F.O is dealing with as he would be a popular fit…..From a baseball perspective, I just think Joe Girardi would be the ideal selection….This of course would be concerning as he was targeted as the reson for the Marlins young pitchers woes…..Then again all of the Marlin pitchers from the 03 staff have had health issues since…..I think it had to do with developmental philosphy of the Marlin Organization as they tend to rush young pitchers through the system…..Giraldi and a strong Pitching coach……
Joe Torre > Randy “The BUM” Levine. FACT.
Whoa
I would agree with you about negativity scale if I believed that money was the motivating factor with Torre.
A rich, successful person (in this case a 67 year old manager) who has already cashed in only uses money to keep score, so to speak. All successful people need some level of enhanced ego. The ego that got them to where they are is usually more motivating than the paycheck.
Jeter played most of the year hurt. He would have gotten paid whether he went on the DL or he played. What motivated him to play was love of the game or ego or need to achieve or need to be relevant. It takes more than money to motivate someone who already has alot of it.
All motivation can usually be broken down to love or fear. You achieve great things for the love of doing them or the fear of failure you have of not being relevant.
So while millions of dollars may be motivating to me because I don’t have them, to someone who does, it doesn’t carry the same weight.
Geeze, as dubbed by, who else, nomaas, the Sympathy Tour continues. And while the Heyman article in SI suggests more than a little hypocrisy on Torre’s part, I guess one shouldn’t get in the way of a good story. Particularly when it’s been swallowed hook, line, and sinker by a Joe’s Fan Club, sorry, most of the local NY media. Feh.
I posted a while back and it did not appear so am trying again. I wanted to say AMEN to you, Peter Abraham. And AMEN to you, Eugene in Michigan. The vilification of and implied hatred for Torre by many on this blog is a disgrace to the blog that I read all summer because of the intelligence, reasoning, and objectivity of the bloggers. What has happened? When I read some of the meaner statements on here I hear the banjos playing (think of the movie “Deliverance”). It is appalling and sad to read such vindictive and cerebral cortex-challenged remarks as some of you go about the task of demeaning the character of Joe Torre and all that he has represented for the New York Yankees. Why should he not speak his piece? He has every right to do so when and where he chooses. Looking for discrepancies in everything he says, as though he is under a microscope, is hypocritical, as we as humans are full of our own little discrepancies. Finally, this harping about “the media” is not very impressive – to what do you refer – print? broadcast? It is a bandwagon phenomenon in these times to blame the media for virtually everything – most journalists do the best work they can with the information that they have. Where would you be without them – and don’t forget that there is straight reporting and there are opinion pieces. I still think this is the best blog around but just at this time it is distressing to read such vitriol.
Torre’s an idiot for not taking the deal that was an improvement on the one he was gonna take last Spring. He’ll regret this far more than the Yanks will.
Words are not needed when you have actions, and they do. First, they never called Torre to make an offer. The only reason he was there is because he called them. Second, if you want someone you don’t give them a take it or leave it deal. It’s ok if you have that in your mind, but they told him there was no negotiation. Therefore, everything else they’ve said is a lie. I just don’t like bullies and phonies.
Randy, from your comments here you seem to be obsessed with the media which only proves to fans you don’t think they exist. It’s us, the fans, you should be worried about, not calling reporters and whining to them about what another reporter said. With all your words, your actions keep tripping you up.
the anger towards Torre on this site is appalling. For those who wanted him gone (and I’m in that camp), he’s gone. You got what you wanted. There is no need to bury him any further.
He said at the time that it was about commitment, ie. length of contract. I think the week he spent waiting to hear from the Yankee front office planted enough doubt in his mind about continuing. So when he walked into that room, he looked around to gauge who would support him and just saw Cashman. He decided he no longer had the stomach to deal with a front office that has increasingly weighed in on his tactical choices. Put aside the money– how many of us would think twice about sticking around with a group of people who would knife us in the back when things didn’t go right in May? Just my opinion.
someone earlier had posted “welcome back to the 80s” and others have questioned that. This team has won when the baseball people were in charge. Steinbrenner brought in Gabe Paul as the team president when he bought the team. Paul, who came up with the maxim “You can never have enough pitching”, did the following: he acquired in succession: Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Dick Tidrow and Oscar Gamble from his former team, the Indians; Lou Piniella from the Royals; Mickey Rivers and Ed Figueroa from the Angels; Willie Randolph, Ken Brett and Dock Ellis from the Pirates; and Bucky Dent from the White Sox.
George brought in Catfish and Reggie. Paul, IIRC, left the Yanks in early 78 in a power struggle with another team exec. He was also getting fed up dealing with George’s increasing involvement. After watching the Yanks get outrun in the 81 WS, George decided that the Bronx Bombers would become the Bronx basestealers. Dave Collins, Ken Griffey Sr, Jerry Mumphrey were brought in. There was no longer a strong GM with clout. George was calling all the shots. So sure, the team had some strong seasons but there wasn’t enough pitching. The farm system was dry. Any kid that did make it up had to perform right away. Few did. Potential free agents took one look at the ownership situation and said no thanks. The team was turning into a laughingstock. I’m not even going to get into Howie Spira.
In the middle of the 1990 season, George was suspended (thank you Fay Vincent!) and (trumpets blaring), the baseball people took over. Bob Watson, a pretty fair hitter, and Gene Michael made the trades that set up the 96-01 team. It didn’t take long for George to reassert himself and drive Watson out. From 2001 on, we saw a number of free agent signings. Some good, some not. Either way, there’s been no championships since. I’m grateful for George’s desire to field a competitive team. I’ve just wanted him to let his baseball people do their job.
So, I look at what happened last week, read the stories, heard the interviews and was left with a troublesome impression: the business people are calling the shots now and the baseball people are going to be ignored. I hope I’m wrong but if a Hughes, Kennedy or Melky is traded for lesser talent, we’ll know who’s in charge.
We got it a few years and several missed opportunities late. I thank him for what he did, but his disengenuous papal press tour is annoying. He turned it down, let’s turn our attention to the new candidates.
HMMM
* “I’ve been a Yankee fan all my life, including the awful era (80’s) when CBS controlled the team.�
Big Stein has controlled the team since 1972.
LOL!!! You caught them!!
I wish Joe would just go away. Doing the same interview over and over again isn’t helping anyone.
as a lifelong yankee fan i’ve seen several droughts, after 61 til 77, after that til 95. if the the 2 sons, dumb & dumber along with randy latrine name mattingly the mgr. be prepared for another drought. remember big stien naming bucky dent the mgr., how’d that work out. at least i’ll start getting better seats again & it will be less crowded leaving the parking garage.
Bottom line, you don’t deserve 2 years when you have a $200m plus payroll and can’t get out of the first round in 3 straight years.
What I can’t understand is how on one hand Torre can mention he had an incentive to win the WS in his current contract, but then state he finds the concept so offensive. Also, if Torre was willing to take a one year extension at the beginning of the season, why would a one-year deal with a second year option suddenly be such an insult? Finally, if Torre doesn’t agree with the Yankees management philosophy (neither do I, by the way), why should he expect a long-term commitment. Heck, what that tells me is that incentives are definitely the way to go.
The more I think about it, I think the Yankees were foolish for offering Torre a deal, but not because I think it was an insult. Instead, it seems to me as if they were forced into making the offer due to the correctly perceived public backlash that would have occurred had they simply severed times. Ultimately, I think they wanted Torre back for at least one year to avoid the controversy and make it easier to pursue their other off season plans. Ironically, it really looks like Torre cut off his nose to spite his face because he winds up as the only party who has lost something significant. Ironically, it really looks like Torre cut off his nose to spite his face because he winds up as the only party who has lost something significant.
As for the new manager, I am also becoming more convinced of Mattingly’s candidacy. I think Donnie’s work ethic is a major plus, and can easily see him developing into a manager who can combine the old school approach with a more numbers-based philosophy.
Say, Pete, if you’re gonna wade in, don’t be selective about it. Heyman’s SI story is the news of the day — Joe was negotiating a very similar deal in the spring with Swindell — it’s hardly bitter to speculate as to why Torre was suddenly ‘insulted’ by it now. Tho’ his enablers in the media are sure making it easier for him, with, of course, some few exceptions.
Harley – totally write. Pete has been about as far off base on this as can be. Pete kept going on about how it was a 30% pay cut and how that was insulting. Then Joe comes out and says that wasnt the problem so we all had to read Pete tell us it was when in fact that assertion had no basis in reality. Now we find out that Joe was ready to accept this deal earlier in the year. I cant imagine that if Joe would have said “Im insulted by the incentives so lets remove them and Ill sign the base deal” that would have been rejected. Joe played this hand very poorly and if the writers werent all Joe apologists (mainly because he was very good to them) they would realize this too.