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	<title>Comments on: Torre: Length of deal was the issue</title>
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	<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/</link>
	<description>A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News</description>
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		<title>By: helno51</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180085</link>
		<dc:creator>helno51</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180085</guid>
		<description>Harley - totally write.  Pete has been about as far off base on this as can be.  Pete kept going on about how it was a 30% pay cut and how that was insulting.  Then Joe comes out and says that wasnt the problem so we all had to read Pete tell us it was when in fact that assertion had no basis in reality.  Now we find out that Joe was ready to accept this deal earlier in the year.  I cant imagine that if Joe would have said &quot;Im insulted by the incentives so lets remove them and Ill sign the base deal&quot; that would have been rejected.  Joe played this hand very poorly and if the writers werent all Joe apologists (mainly because he was very good to them) they would realize this too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harley &#8211; totally write.  Pete has been about as far off base on this as can be.  Pete kept going on about how it was a 30% pay cut and how that was insulting.  Then Joe comes out and says that wasnt the problem so we all had to read Pete tell us it was when in fact that assertion had no basis in reality.  Now we find out that Joe was ready to accept this deal earlier in the year.  I cant imagine that if Joe would have said &#8220;Im insulted by the incentives so lets remove them and Ill sign the base deal&#8221; that would have been rejected.  Joe played this hand very poorly and if the writers werent all Joe apologists (mainly because he was very good to them) they would realize this too.</p>
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		<title>By: Harley</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180055</link>
		<dc:creator>Harley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180055</guid>
		<description>Say, Pete, if you&#039;re gonna wade in, don&#039;t be selective about it.  Heyman&#039;s SI story is the news of the day -- Joe was negotiating a very similar deal in the spring with Swindell -- it&#039;s hardly bitter to speculate as to why Torre was suddenly &#039;insulted&#039; by it now.  Tho&#039; his enablers in the media are sure making it easier for him, with, of course, some few exceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say, Pete, if you&#8217;re gonna wade in, don&#8217;t be selective about it.  Heyman&#8217;s SI story is the news of the day &#8212; Joe was negotiating a very similar deal in the spring with Swindell &#8212; it&#8217;s hardly bitter to speculate as to why Torre was suddenly &#8216;insulted&#8217; by it now.  Tho&#8217; his enablers in the media are sure making it easier for him, with, of course, some few exceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180029</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180029</guid>
		<description>What I can&#039;t understand is how on one hand Torre can mention he had an incentive to win the WS in his current contract, but then state he finds the concept so offensive. Also, if Torre was willing to take a one year extension at the beginning of the season, why would a one-year deal with a second year option suddenly be such an insult? Finally, if Torre doesnâ€™t agree with the Yankees management philosophy (neither do I, by the way), why should he expect a long-term commitment. Heck, what that tells me is that incentives are definitely the way to go.

The more I think about it, I think the Yankees were foolish for offering Torre a deal, but not because I think it was an insult. Instead, it seems to me as if they were forced into making the offer due to the correctly perceived public backlash that would have occurred had they simply severed times. Ultimately, I think they wanted Torre back for at least one year to avoid the controversy and make it easier to pursue their other off season plans. Ironically, it really looks like Torre cut off his nose to spite his face because he winds up as the only party who has lost something significant.  Ironically, it really looks like Torre cut off his nose to spite his face because he winds up as the only party who has lost something significant.

As for the new manager, I am also becoming more convinced of Mattinglyâ€™s candidacy. I think Donnieâ€™s work ethic is a major plus, and can easily see him developing into a manager who can combine the old school approach with a more numbers-based philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I can&#8217;t understand is how on one hand Torre can mention he had an incentive to win the WS in his current contract, but then state he finds the concept so offensive. Also, if Torre was willing to take a one year extension at the beginning of the season, why would a one-year deal with a second year option suddenly be such an insult? Finally, if Torre doesnâ€™t agree with the Yankees management philosophy (neither do I, by the way), why should he expect a long-term commitment. Heck, what that tells me is that incentives are definitely the way to go.</p>
<p>The more I think about it, I think the Yankees were foolish for offering Torre a deal, but not because I think it was an insult. Instead, it seems to me as if they were forced into making the offer due to the correctly perceived public backlash that would have occurred had they simply severed times. Ultimately, I think they wanted Torre back for at least one year to avoid the controversy and make it easier to pursue their other off season plans. Ironically, it really looks like Torre cut off his nose to spite his face because he winds up as the only party who has lost something significant.  Ironically, it really looks like Torre cut off his nose to spite his face because he winds up as the only party who has lost something significant.</p>
<p>As for the new manager, I am also becoming more convinced of Mattinglyâ€™s candidacy. I think Donnieâ€™s work ethic is a major plus, and can easily see him developing into a manager who can combine the old school approach with a more numbers-based philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: EdWhitson</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180019</link>
		<dc:creator>EdWhitson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180019</guid>
		<description>Bottom line, you don&#039;t deserve 2 years when you have a $200m plus payroll and can&#039;t get out of the first round in 3 straight years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bottom line, you don&#8217;t deserve 2 years when you have a $200m plus payroll and can&#8217;t get out of the first round in 3 straight years.</p>
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		<title>By: filthy slider</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180012</link>
		<dc:creator>filthy slider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180012</guid>
		<description>as a lifelong yankee fan i&#039;ve seen several droughts, after 61 til 77, after that til 95. if the the 2 sons, dumb &amp; dumber along with randy latrine name mattingly the mgr. be prepared for another drought. remember big stien naming bucky dent the mgr., how&#039;d that work out. at least i&#039;ll start getting better seats again &amp; it will be less crowded leaving the parking garage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as a lifelong yankee fan i&#8217;ve seen several droughts, after 61 til 77, after that til 95. if the the 2 sons, dumb &amp; dumber along with randy latrine name mattingly the mgr. be prepared for another drought. remember big stien naming bucky dent the mgr., how&#8217;d that work out. at least i&#8217;ll start getting better seats again &amp; it will be less crowded leaving the parking garage.</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180009</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180009</guid>
		<description>I wish Joe would just go away.  Doing the same interview over and over again isn&#039;t helping anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish Joe would just go away.  Doing the same interview over and over again isn&#8217;t helping anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: jennifer</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-180008</link>
		<dc:creator>jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-180008</guid>
		<description>HMMM

* â€œIâ€™ve been a Yankee fan all my life, including the awful era (80â€™s) when CBS controlled the team.â€?

Big Stein has controlled the team since 1972.


LOL!!! You caught them!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HMMM</p>
<p>* â€œIâ€™ve been a Yankee fan all my life, including the awful era (80â€™s) when CBS controlled the team.â€?</p>
<p>Big Stein has controlled the team since 1972.</p>
<p>LOL!!! You caught them!!</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-179981</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-179981</guid>
		<description>We got it a few years and several missed opportunities late.  I thank him for what he did, but his disengenuous papal press tour is annoying.  He turned it down, let&#039;s turn our attention to the new candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got it a few years and several missed opportunities late.  I thank him for what he did, but his disengenuous papal press tour is annoying.  He turned it down, let&#8217;s turn our attention to the new candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: pat m in CT</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-179979</link>
		<dc:creator>pat m in CT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-179979</guid>
		<description>the anger towards Torre on this site is appalling. For those who wanted him gone (and I&#039;m in that camp), he&#039;s gone. You got what you wanted. There is no need to bury him any further.

He said at the time that it was about commitment, ie. length of contract. I think the week he spent waiting to hear from the Yankee front office planted enough doubt in his mind about continuing. So when he walked into that room, he looked around to gauge who would support him and just saw Cashman. He decided he no longer had the stomach to deal with a front office that has increasingly weighed in on his tactical choices. Put aside the moneyâ€“ how many of us would think twice about sticking around with a group of people who would knife us in the back when things didn&#039;t go right in May? Just my opinion.

someone earlier had posted &quot;welcome back to the 80s&quot; and others have questioned that. This team has won when the baseball people were in charge. Steinbrenner brought in Gabe Paul as the team president when he bought the team. Paul, who came up with the maxim &quot;You can never have enough pitching&quot;, did the following: he acquired in succession: Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Dick Tidrow and Oscar Gamble from his former team, the Indians; Lou Piniella from the Royals; Mickey Rivers and Ed Figueroa from the Angels; Willie Randolph, Ken Brett and Dock Ellis from the Pirates; and Bucky Dent from the White Sox. 

George brought in Catfish and Reggie. Paul, IIRC, left the Yanks in early 78 in a power struggle with another team exec. He was also getting fed up dealing with George&#039;s increasing involvement. After watching the Yanks get outrun in the 81 WS, George decided that the Bronx Bombers would become the Bronx basestealers. Dave Collins, Ken Griffey Sr, Jerry Mumphrey were brought in. There was no longer a strong GM with clout. George was calling all the shots. So sure, the team had some strong seasons but there wasn&#039;t enough pitching. The farm system was dry. Any kid that did make it up had to perform right away. Few did. Potential free agents took one look at the ownership situation and said no thanks. The team was turning into a laughingstock. I&#039;m not even going to get into Howie Spira.

In the middle of the 1990 season, George was suspended (thank you Fay Vincent!) and (trumpets blaring), the baseball people took over. Bob Watson, a pretty fair hitter, and Gene Michael made the trades that set up the 96-01 team. It didn&#039;t take long for George to reassert himself and drive Watson out. From 2001 on, we saw a number of free agent signings. Some good, some not. Either way, there&#039;s been no championships since. I&#039;m grateful for George&#039;s desire to field a competitive team. I&#039;ve just wanted him to let his baseball people do their job.

So, I look at what happened last week, read the stories, heard the interviews and was left with a troublesome  impression: the business people are calling the shots now and the baseball people are going to be ignored. I hope I&#039;m wrong but if a Hughes, Kennedy or Melky is traded for lesser talent, we&#039;ll know who&#039;s in charge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the anger towards Torre on this site is appalling. For those who wanted him gone (and I&#8217;m in that camp), he&#8217;s gone. You got what you wanted. There is no need to bury him any further.</p>
<p>He said at the time that it was about commitment, ie. length of contract. I think the week he spent waiting to hear from the Yankee front office planted enough doubt in his mind about continuing. So when he walked into that room, he looked around to gauge who would support him and just saw Cashman. He decided he no longer had the stomach to deal with a front office that has increasingly weighed in on his tactical choices. Put aside the moneyâ€“ how many of us would think twice about sticking around with a group of people who would knife us in the back when things didn&#8217;t go right in May? Just my opinion.</p>
<p>someone earlier had posted &#8220;welcome back to the 80s&#8221; and others have questioned that. This team has won when the baseball people were in charge. Steinbrenner brought in Gabe Paul as the team president when he bought the team. Paul, who came up with the maxim &#8220;You can never have enough pitching&#8221;, did the following: he acquired in succession: Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Dick Tidrow and Oscar Gamble from his former team, the Indians; Lou Piniella from the Royals; Mickey Rivers and Ed Figueroa from the Angels; Willie Randolph, Ken Brett and Dock Ellis from the Pirates; and Bucky Dent from the White Sox. </p>
<p>George brought in Catfish and Reggie. Paul, IIRC, left the Yanks in early 78 in a power struggle with another team exec. He was also getting fed up dealing with George&#8217;s increasing involvement. After watching the Yanks get outrun in the 81 WS, George decided that the Bronx Bombers would become the Bronx basestealers. Dave Collins, Ken Griffey Sr, Jerry Mumphrey were brought in. There was no longer a strong GM with clout. George was calling all the shots. So sure, the team had some strong seasons but there wasn&#8217;t enough pitching. The farm system was dry. Any kid that did make it up had to perform right away. Few did. Potential free agents took one look at the ownership situation and said no thanks. The team was turning into a laughingstock. I&#8217;m not even going to get into Howie Spira.</p>
<p>In the middle of the 1990 season, George was suspended (thank you Fay Vincent!) and (trumpets blaring), the baseball people took over. Bob Watson, a pretty fair hitter, and Gene Michael made the trades that set up the 96-01 team. It didn&#8217;t take long for George to reassert himself and drive Watson out. From 2001 on, we saw a number of free agent signings. Some good, some not. Either way, there&#8217;s been no championships since. I&#8217;m grateful for George&#8217;s desire to field a competitive team. I&#8217;ve just wanted him to let his baseball people do their job.</p>
<p>So, I look at what happened last week, read the stories, heard the interviews and was left with a troublesome  impression: the business people are calling the shots now and the baseball people are going to be ignored. I hope I&#8217;m wrong but if a Hughes, Kennedy or Melky is traded for lesser talent, we&#8217;ll know who&#8217;s in charge.</p>
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		<title>By: susan mullen</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/comment-page-2/#comment-179976</link>
		<dc:creator>susan mullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/10/23/torre-length-of-deal-was-the-issue/#comment-179976</guid>
		<description>Randy, from your comments here you seem to be obsessed with the media which only proves to fans you don&#039;t think they exist. It&#039;s us, the fans, you should be worried about, not calling reporters and whining to them about what another reporter said. With all your words, your actions keep tripping you up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy, from your comments here you seem to be obsessed with the media which only proves to fans you don&#8217;t think they exist. It&#8217;s us, the fans, you should be worried about, not calling reporters and whining to them about what another reporter said. With all your words, your actions keep tripping you up.</p>
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