Friday looking like the day
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- October
- 24
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Talked to some people with MLB today and they predicted that Bud Selig would be OK with the idea if the Yankees announcing their new manager on Friday.
Selig, they said, understands that the Yankees need to get a manager in place before they sit down with Alex Rodriguez and the other free agents.
The Yankees will be done interviewing today and no second round of interviews are scheduled. Once Tony Pena finishes up today, a decision will be made.
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on Wednesday, October 24th, 2007 at 2:24 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
please please please be girardi…i do not want mattingly to manage this club…i smell a disaster.
does Selig really have the right to tell a team when they can or can’t announce somethign like this? Or was it merely a suggestion from him?
I feel an opinion poll coming on Pete!
I am ok with any other the 3, with a slight preference to Donnie Baseball. I think that managing players that you used to play with would be a tough spot for Girardi, a guy who’s people skills are a little in doubt.
I like Pena’s qualifications and track record. He seems like a really good guy with a positive character. But if the management is set on putting Mattingly in eventually, why not just get on with it right now.
Lets start the Joe G chants..
Lets say it is Girardi. Does that impact any free agents or Arod’s decision?
I would think they Mattingly is the clear favorite because of his “being groomed” for the past 4 seasons. Does their lack of loyalty and commitment to Mattingly go against them if they sign Girardi?
The announcement will be made from the balcony of the Vatican.
Any of the three candidates would be a fine choice. Donnie Baseball and Tony know the team well and have the respect of the players. Girardi has seen them from the broadcast booth and he was also a bench coach before he went to Florida. It’s not like the Yankees will bring in a total outsider who does not know what to do. I look forward to seeing the new manager and what he does with all of this talent. The Yankees now and forever have the resources to win. The manager doesn’t have to be a miracle worker by any stretch of the imagination. Just keep from mashing the wrong buttons, that’s all.
Gotta admit the River Ave. Blues guys have a point with this story:
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/...../#comments
let the new era of Donnie Baseball begin
I’m fine with any one of the 3 manager choices, provided that their hiring doesn’t affect the signing of Mariano, Posada and A-Rod (plus, Pettitte’s decision to remain for 2008).
I’ll be shocked if it’s not Mattingly. Oh, and TKinDC… Tony Pena might be a nice guy, but his former neighbor in KC might take exception to the “good character” thing.
http://www.pitch.com/2005-05-1.....y-screwed/
“Who’s that squat / gap-toothed fellow?”
“IT’S JOLTIN’ JOE GIRARDIO!”
“Joe, Joe — GIRARDIO!”
“Joe, Joe — GIRARDIO!”
I want Giradi, but I think it will be Mattingly. Then when the Yanks start 8-15 Torre will be back for round 2, ala Billy Martin.
TONY !! , TONY !!, TONY !!
i can’t wait to chant Donnie Baseball with the bleacher creatures!!!
I love how everybody can predict with certainty that Don Mattingly would fail as manager of the Yankees.
It must be from the extended baseball conversations you have all had with him.
There is no evidence that demonstates he is some baseball dunce.
IMO, they can’t go wrong with either Girardi or Mattingly. I don’t see Pena getting this job. If its Donnie Baseball, the construction of the staff is going to be important since he would be a first time manager. An experienced bench coach and pitching coach will be vital.
For Girardi, it would walking the delicate tightrope of handling guys who were your teammates.
Both guys bring positives to the table and both have negatives.
However, for some of you to announce with certainty guaranteed failure for Mattingly is laughable. The guy forgot more baseball than any of us will ever know. With the proper support internally and an upgrade of the pitching staff, the guy can get the job done. As can Girardi.
If you ask me, to have two candidates as solid as these two guys vying for the job tells me the Yankees are in good shape for the future.
why buster olney thinks it will be GIRARDI…heres hoping he is right!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3076982
Tony Tony Tony Tony, the latin americans will love to play for him
Don Mattingly wasn’t just a superstar player. He was one of the hardest working self made superstar players. He doesn’t want this job because of ego. He wouldn’t have put in the work the last four years as a coach if that were the case.
Mattingly will make an excellent choice.
It won’t be Girardi.
How can a guy who has played with these guys manage them?
It’s Donnie’s time.
But he was already an authority figure with them. He was their bench coach for a year.
Joltin Joe, Joltin Joe, players with crewcuts will love to play for him
who cares who manages, its not like they are replacing brian cashman
They better get Donnie or Joe G some arms. Preferably ones who throw strikes.
Good point Jennifer. I think people forget about that when discussing Girardi.
Girardi isn’t the only one that has played with these guys. Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, and Posada (just a bit) all played with Mattingly in ‘95. The point of “Joe has played with them” means nothing. These guys are all professionals who want to go out and win every day regardless of who the manager is. I’m sorry but I think that these players are all too professional to have a problem listening to a former teammate. And just like Jennifer said, Girardi has already been a bench coach. They’ve heard his voice before and they are not going to be in for any surprises.
While I’ve been a diehard Donny Baseball fan since he came up 25 years ago (I have what amounts to a Mattingly shrine in my bar), I have been hoping all along that it’ll be Girardi that gets the call to manage, mainly for experience reasons. But now I hear Mattingly admit that he’s been coveting the position all these years, and I’m afraid of the possible bad blood if he gets snubbed.
Some of these guys played with Donnie, too. And Joe Girardi was the bench coach before Florida, so he’s been “groomed”, too! He’s was a great catcher so he KNOWS pitchers!
I’m for “Joe, Joe, Girardio”!!!
I”m thinking and hoping they will pick Joe G. As many have pointed out, when you change managers you go for the opposit. Joe G is the opposite of the “other” Joe. Donnie to me would be a clone.
lets all be realistic. Don Mattingly is not a clone of joe torre, and if he is, Im happy with a 94 win season and a trip to the playoffs.
Let’s just hope whoever they pick that the other two are still involved with the team somehow.
Maybe it would be a good sign if Mattingly becomes the manager. When the other Joe took over in ‘96, he had never been to the World Series as a player or manager and look what happened. Mattingly has never been to the World Series as a player or coach. It would be magical to see history repeat itself. I’m not trying to place unreasonable expectations onto Donnie Baseball if he becomes the manager by any means, I am just explaining how history could repeat itself and it often does. That’s all.
I hope this is an ok (allowable) post BUT for those that have any interest in the media and shows etc etc neil best of newsday has a gretaq blog on sports media. His latest column is about how the Yankees are banning ESPN and ESPN affiliates from the manager conference call this week because they aired the Torre not accepting the offer conference call live
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/
Any of the three candidates will do well as they each bring different and important intangibles to the table. i think that we all should be excited that we won’t have to deal with the likes of La Russa or Bobby V.
Now that would be truly awful.
If many are to be believed that anyone should be able to manage a $200M team to the playoffs, why do you care who gets the job?
Girardi is History, belongs to the Zimmer era, one of his boy`s will never be the mgr.Big Stein and Zim had a falling out.
I agree with Olney’s analysis 100%.I think Girardi, with Pena as bench ooach, would give Yankees the most fire & best chance of winning, but I have a bad feeling though that the new powers that be will opt for Mattingly as a “safer”
choice to (IMO wrongfully) try & regain some of the PR value they lost in their bungling of the Torre fiasco. I think they wrongly believe most Yankee fans want Donnie, but I’m sure the vast majority know that Girardi is more qualified & better suited to spark us over the hump.
I think Im really ok with any of these three. They all bring different things to the table. I don’t really think any of us can say with 100% confidence that one will better than another..
We all have our ‘gut’ feelings and such, but we really have no idea how these folks will manage the Yankees.
My own gut says either 3 will be a solid fit.
I love when people give the edge to Girardi based on experience. He actually has less time in as a coach…He did win NL MOY in his rookie year. So much for experience. Mattingly will keep the trasition smooth. There isn’t a player in that locker room who isn’t pulling for him. His ability to withstand George and company’s meddling is a huge advantage. Joe G. would go bullistic if George started calling him during a game. Is he a better tactician than Mattingly? Who knows…Donnie does know the game inside. He was around Billy Martin, Yogi, Dallas Green, Lou Pinella, All better baseball minds then the guys who have managed Girardi. Girardi is more eloquent but that does not make him the better choice.
Zim hasn’t been in our organization since 03′. If that is why would have Girardi been our bench coach for Torre. Wouldn’t Girardi been pissed off with the Big Stein. So, Girardi will be our manager its the most logical choice.
Rufus,
See Lou Pinella…….
Wow! Thanks for the information, Peter. This is getting exciting.
I have learned from the past, to be careful what I wish for. Therefore, I am just hoping the Yankees pick the best candidate for the job and I am leaving it at that.
The odds, according to one Vegas casino…not that I’m advocating gambling:
Mattingly – 3:2
Girardi – 8:1
Pena – 25:1
Have you ever listened to the pablum whenever Girardi is on the Yes Network, he`s great at the second and third guess Let him go back to the windy city.
NUMBER 23 is the choice by a wide margin. He`s not coming in CLUELESS!.
Regarding some of the shots taken at Pete….
It seems like at least some people are upset about Pete expressing his opinions about the way the Yankees are doing business lately (on his very own blog no less!)
But that’s what the blog format is about.
This is exactly the place for Pete to opine, give us the inside dish, or whatever else he’s got on his mind that doesn’t make it in the one or none daily articles Pete may write for the LoHud dead tree edition.
I just found this blog very recently, so I don’t know what the tone or tenor has been, but I find the various arguments made here rather interesting at this point.
I may have emphatically disagreed with Pete’s take on the Torre departure, and let him have it in some of my own comments, but I would be uninterested in any blog whose host did not express a point of view on the topic of the day
I think Mattingly would be the popular choice but Girardi just might be the correct one, especially with Dave Eiland as pitching coach. Pena’s dirty laundry could be a problem that the management may want to avoid.
But who the hell knows…
Years from now when Cashman is retired…I will be first in line to buy his book (if books even exist that far into the future) to read all about what went on in the Yankees Universe while he was GM.
joey whats that name from ? jerky boys ? i used to say “joey backo’ donuts” all the time as a kid. heh
I am rooting for Donnie however I will say this, if they hire Donnie, Joe won’t stick around and be the bench coach, he’ll wait and get an offer somewhere else to manage. However if Joe gets the job, Donnie would probably accept the bench coach role as he is not getting a managing job for another team. So if the Yankees want to retain both then Joe gets the job, Donnie as bench coach.
Jeff: Have either Girardi or Mattingly said anything at all to indicate what you posted is true?
steve – I never heard of the jerky boys. No big story really, I used to (slightly) know this shady/strange guy known by that moniker. I thought the name was funny.
Some people that owed him money ended up dead.
Probably a coincidence.
Well, let’s just say this: I’m glad I’m not the one having to make the decision!
It wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever to have Mattingly remain as bench coach if Girardi gets the job.
That becomes a nightmare. Every losing streak results in second guessing and wondering when Mattingly would be named manager. Its unfair to BOTH guys if that was the arrangement. The Yankees would be nuts to put both guys in that situation.
If Girardi gets the job, how the Yankees handle Mattingly is going to be tough. Its why its such a tough decision.
If Giradri does get the job, I think maybe they’d off Donny a managing spot somewhere in the minors…
But I doubt he’d take it.
Mattingly – 3:2
Girardi – 8:1
Pena – 25:1
Place a dime on Girardi.
SJ44,
If Mattingly gets the job could Tony Pena remain on the staff?
Watch ESPN reduce the number of Yankee gamse shown on their channels. That would be a benefit to all of us so we do not have to listen to Steve Phillips or Rick Sutcliffe gargle for an entire 9 inning game…
Now if the Yankees could only piss off Fox and get rid of that channel… Utopia.
I hate espn games.
I would think Pena and Bowa have the best shots at remaining on staff if Mattingly gets the job.
Perhaps that’s why Bowa hasn’t yet accepted the Mariners third base coaching job. Cashman may have told him to hold off until they make a decision on a manager.
Its a tough, tough call. Both guys (Girardi and Mattingly) bring a lot to the table.
Having never really heard Mattingly talk about handling a pitching staff, its hard for me to say which guy is the best fit.
I like the fact Girardi has an edge to him. This team needs that and I could care less if some of the veterans won’t like it. Two of the last three years, this team didn’t even show up the first 2 1/2 months of the season. That won’t happen under Girardi.
I also don’t think it would happen under Mattingly because Mattingly has always been a grinder. Was that way as a player and has been that way as a coach.
I just wish we could have heard his vision about running a pitching staff. I’m surprised nobody asked him that (if they did, I missed it) on the conference call.
How he answered that yesterday may determine whether or not he gets the job.
I have seen Girardi’s work firsthand. The guy is really, really good.
I also love Donnie Baseball. Surrounded by the right people, I believe he can get the job done.
Its a tough, tough call. Its like a race between two great sprinters. Only one can win and it might be a photo finish.
Jennifer: agreed.
Unless the ratings drop (which they don’t), ESPN isn’t reducing Yankee games over editorial disagreements.
Joe Torre hasn’t talked to ESPN in 7 years and it didn’t stop them from broadcasting the games.
If ESPN didn’t broadcast/discuss the Yankees and Red Sox, they wouldn’t have any ratings for their games or Baseball Tonight shows. Those two teams carry the coverage on the network.
How much does the fact that firing Mattingly, should it have to come to that, could do a lot more damage to Yankees’ front office PR than the whole Torre thing?
Or is it more of a red herring–is it really a non-issue?
Okay, I am going to actually agree with SJ44. Wow. Ha, ha. No, seriously, he is one-hundred-percent correct in that it’s absurd for people to “guarantee” Donnie will be a bust as a manager. It’s just so plainly ridiculous. People act as though Donnie is walking off the street after owning a Laundromat his entire life. He was a star player IN NEW YORK and he’s been playing baseball practically his entire life. Do you really think he’s going to freeze and panic making a baseball decision? People think he’s going to be like Torre because of their similar personalities, but the difference is that Donnie works his butt off and he’s going to put in more hours than anyone. Torre wouldn’t even watch tape of upcoming opponents. According to Buster Onley, he hardly worked at all and his main concern was shaving after the game and choosing a place to eat.
You can expect Donnie to work hard and inspire his players to do the same.
The truth is this: with this talent, all Donnie has to do is not over-manage, take care of his young arms, and not blow out the bullpen. If he does that, people will forget about Torre in a month. If Donnie is consistent and doesn’t fall in love with relievers, he will be an instant upgrade.
And while I like Girardi, I don’t get the fawning love for him. He won the Manager of the Year award, but what he really did was take a young Marlins team with really good pitching and got them to .500 after a putrid start. Go look at that team — it was loaded with talent. All of those young pitchers save Dontrelle were in traction after the season.
I’d take Girardi — as well as Pena — but I hardly think he’s a savior. People seem to be overrating him because it’s become a fad to assert that Donnie is clueless.
SJ44
October 24th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Unless the ratings drop (which they don’t), ESPN isn’t reducing Yankee games over editorial disagreements.
Joe Torre hasn’t talked to ESPN in 7 years and it didn’t stop them from broadcasting the games.
If ESPN didn’t broadcast/discuss the Yankees and Red Sox, they wouldn’t have any ratings for their games or Baseball Tonight shows. Those two teams carry the coverage on the network.
I know you are right but man, why rain on my beautiful day…Wishful thinking is sometimes all that there is….
Rebecca–Nothing Beats Optimism
Or is it more of a red herring—is it really a non-issue?
As long as the next manager wins, no one will care…Just like the right price brings back Mo’ and Posada…
mattingly was already fired…well, not really, but mattingly didnt want to retire in 95. The yankees got Tino and mattingly was left without a team that wanted him. Much like Bernie. It happens. If mattingly sucks, he will get fired. I bet he knows that nothing last for ever. He already went thru this. That shouldnt be a reason why they should or not hire the guy.
The decision on a new manager is not going to be a baseball decision. How Mattingly feels about running a pitching staff is inconsequential.
This decision is going to be based on which candidate can best shield the Yankees from a public relations disaster should the team play below expectations and not make the playoffs.
The choice will be Don Mattingly.
The fans won’t kill him because he’s ‘Donnie Baseball’.
The media won’t kill him because he’s a 1st year manager, is in a no win situation and has always been good to them.
And as we saw today, fans are willing to accept a season of lowered expectations as long as Joe Torre is not the manager.
Correct me if I am wrong but the media feasts on 1st year managers.
How is it not going to be a baseball decision? All three guys are career baseball men.
Fans are willing to be patient because they realize change takes time. How is that lowering expectations?
I think you are under the mistaken belief that the only reason the team won was because of Joe Torre. That’s simply not the case.
If he was the sole reason why they win, explain to me his 4-13 post-season record the last 17 games?
Sometimes, change is good. In this case, change was needed and if people are smart enough to give it time, what’s the big deal?
Reason why to fear Stienbrenner Jr on Mattingly:
“He was the hardest worker in the game (as a player), and as a player, the greatest clutch hitter I’ve ever seen,�
I believe in the 1st part..the second part. If he believes that there is something like clutch, We are in trouble. But then again, he is a baseball owner. I guess its business as usuall when it comes to this sort of stuff
Does he believe in unicorns?
joe hasn’t talked to espn in 7 years?!
man that guy can hold a grudge…when will he show up for old-timers day? 2025!? never!?
As I have said since Joe stupidly and pridefully refused to re-sign, it should be Donnie with Bowa as his bench coach. Simply put, Zimmer: Torre as Bowa: Donnie. Both have great baseball minds and fire in the belly. Perfect combo. Plus, having Donnie hold Jeter’s bat makes more likely the return of the Big 3 (or at least 2 of the Big 3).
“This decision is going to be based on which candidate can best shield the Yankees from a public relations disaster should the team play below expectations and not make the playoffs.
The choice will be Don Mattingly. ”
i guess we’ll see.
if they pick Pena or Girardi, according to your logic it will be a baseball decision.
i’m sure you’ll still complain.
Obviously it’s a baseball decision in that you are searching for a new manager for your baseball team.
I would hope that in your search for a new manager to run your baseball team you would include candidate who have played with and/or managed baseball teams in the past.
Obviously.
How Don Mattingly runs a pitching staff, or when Joe Girardi decides to hit and run is not a matter of importance to this ownership group.
For them, the best candidate is one that insulates the ‘Yankee Brand’ from too criticism.
It’s still debatable whether a 94 win team that made the postseason 12 straight years ‘needed’ change.
Great point migames.
I’ve been at work all day, and couldn’t post. I can’t believe some of the doom-and-gloom that I’ve been reading.
All of these guys are baseball lifers. All three are respected by the players, their peers, and the media. One can easily make a good case for any of them.
So Donnie hasn’t managed before. So what? Neither did Girardi, and he had only one year as a coach.
I really don’t think Don Mattingly is a dunce, or hasn’t been paying attention all his years playing and coaching the game. If he were, I don’t think the Yankees would seriously consider entrusting their $200M team and young pitching staff to him.
Keep Bowa as bench coach (that’s probably why he hasn’t yet signed on with Seattle, and possibly a sign that Donnie is the organization’s favorite). Get a strong pitching coach. I can’t see how those wouldn’t be plusses, regardless of who the new manager is.
The Yankees could do much worse than Mattingly, Girardi, or Pena. Again, if the players, especially the starting pitching, perform as expected, then any of them will look smart.
Youth must be served.Out with the old farts and has beens, in with new. Make way for a NEW YANKEE DYNASTY.
Ummm, have we figured out if Bowa is still under contract with the Yanks and hence cannot accept the Seattle job? I know that player contracts expire after the Series, but I am not sure about coaches. My apologies if this has been settled previously as I have not been following the comments as the ‘he said, she said’ is way too annoying to deal with. That being said, it is likely that Pena would consider staying as, unlike with Donny, it would not be perceived as a major slight if he wasn’t offered the managerial job.
In interviews over the past week, both Bowa and Pena have stated they want to stay no matter who the manager is.
Other Managers that the yankees have given a chance to manage their team without other major league experience. Judge for yourself if it really makes a difference:
Buck Showlater
Stump Merril
Bucky Dent
Lou Pinella
Dick Howser
Ralph Houk
Yogi Berra
And you know this how Jonathon? Are you in the room during the interviews?
Each candidate spends 7 hours talking to the entire organization, with special emphasis on the baseball side (where each candidate has spent the most time) and its not going to be a baseball decision?
Its conveinent how you gloss over 4-13 in the last 17 post-season games as if it means nothing.
Its great that the Yankees made the post-season each of the last 12 years. The Red Sox missed the playoffs entirely last year and are in the WS this year. Which team would you rather be? Its about MORE than making the playoffs.
You talk about “lowered expectations”. Seems to me you are quite happy with making the playoffs and getting beat in the first round every year, as long as Joe Torre remains manager.
Talk about lowered expectations.
Just because you disagree with them changing managers doesn’t make it a bad decision. Nor does it mean they suspend all logic in choosing the next manager. Clearly, given the extensive interview process, they haven’t.
In the case of Mattingly, he has been groomed to eventually become manager of the Yankees. So, if it happens, is it really an non-baseball decision, since it has been in the planning stage BY THE BASEBALL PEOPLE for 4 years?
If its Girardi, they hired one of the hottest managerial candidates in the game.
I’m failing to see your logic, aside from the fact that you believe Torre can do no wrong, as to how choosing the next manager is not going to be a baseball decision.
SJ44 – great posts!!!
Buster Olney goes out on the limb and predicts the 32nd manager of the New Yawk Yankees will be..
(drum roll)
Oh, the tension..
(rips envelope open)
Joe Girardi !
Buster cites six reasons
1. Experience in running a game
2. He knows pitching
3. He knows New York
4. He gets along with fellow employees
5. He knows the media
6. He looks marvelous in a Yankee uniform
Okay, I added the last one.
You can read his full report here: http://tinyurl.com/25khzb
To the Torre appologist who are Mattingly detractors, I thought you wanted stability? The best chance for that is Donnie Baseball. He has the best shot at retaining the coaching staff and will not be fired for at least three years(As long as he doesn’t really really suck)….
I don’t care if the candidate talks to every single front office employee listed in the Yankees media guide for 24 hours straight.
This decision comes down to 3 people, Hank, Hal and George.
If you think these guys are ‘baseball’ guys, other than the fact they own a ‘baseball’ team, you haven’t been paying attention to the last 34 years of Yankees history.
Girardi, Mattingly, Pena? Who knows more baseball strategy? Who comes with more managing experience?
It doesn’t matter.
This ownership group thinks anyone can do the job. Obviously, they showed a Hall of Fame manager the door.
Who can provide a smooth transition? That does matter. To this ownership group, that is the most important attribute.
IHMO, that is Don Mattingly.
Donnie Baseball will win Manager of the year for the Yankees in 2008 as Girardi did for the Marlins in 2006.
Again I say take sentimaent out of the equation and the choice is obvious… it has to be Girardi. If any other team in baseball had an opening and the choices were Mattingly or Girardi, its not even close who the pick would be. Hiring Mattingly will be the 2nd great mistake this organization in less than a week. From listening to Hank Steinbrenner say that people need to be patient I’m guessing that Donnie is the choice, funnt How their tune has changed from being pissed that they have not gone to the World Series to now saying we need to be patient, these guys are scizoprhrenic. Not hiring Girardi will come back and bite this organization in the ass I guarentee it
Alright, im ready to pick who i want as manager: Don Mattingly, based on the fact that mattingly drew walks. The Marlins ranked 3rd to last in the NL in walks. Girardi had an career lifetime OBP of .311
If that translate into what he wants from Melky and Cano, we are in trouble
Mattingly in 08!
BTW…
As a Yankee fan I don’t have lowered expectations. I expect this team to win 90 games a year, make the playoffs and compete for a World Series title. Unless I’m mistaken, that’s what they did this year.
That’s why I don’t accept Hal Steinbrenner’s contention that the new manager has to be given some time. This team is ready to win now.
It’s transparent attempt to manipulate the fans, media and any other group that follows this team.
Any Yankee fan who accepts that nonsense for anything other that what it is, is being naive. IMHO.
Nice migames…
Jonathon,
Was Joe Torre a Hall of Fame Manager before he got the Yankees job? Not a chance.
You make it sound like Torre has to me manager for life of the Yankees.
At some point, they were going to change managers. When they did, it was always going to be between Girardi and Mattingly, if both guys were available.
The Steinbrenner’s have always made the final call on managerial hires.
They hired Torre, a man 100 games UNDER .500 when he was hired by the Yankees.
I could only imagine what you thought of that hire.
If you don’t think Brian Cashman and the baseball people have input in the process, you really haven’t followed the Yankees since Cashman got full control of the organization.
Is he the final call? No. But, nobody has EVER had the final call, except for George on any Yankee manager since he bought the team.
So, I ask again, what’s changed? Nothing.
Man I hope Buster is right. Girardi is leaps and bounds smarter than Don
Dr.Acula –
He would look good in ANY uniform!
Maybe hal does expect to win this up comming year but doesnt want to put added pressure on the new manager or have the media do the same. They have a 200 million dollar club,winning and getting far in the playoffs is expected.
What in the world are you talking about? Hank Steinbrenner didn’t write off 2008. Geez, the guy said the goal is to win the World Series every year, even though he knows its not realistic.
He said to be patient with a new manager. That’s not lowering expectations or writing off the season. Its called being LOGICAL.
Geez man, get a grip. You make it sound like they are going to be the DRays.
They are probably going to spend over 350 million dollars to keep Arod, Posada and Rivera.
Is that lowering expectations?
I can’t understand all you people who make these bold declarations based on your perception of what someone might be like as a manager. You have no idea how the answered questions or how they presented themselves to the people who are responsible for hiring them. If the support staff had absolutely nothing to say, why bother to include them in the process – to waste a good 5 hours of the day?
It just stuns me how people with say things here as though they are utterly true and yet have no real facts to go on.
SJ44 –
It’s interesting to me how in these types of discussions you are utterly logical, very well-thought out and level headed. Yet, during games, when things aren’t going well, well, let’s just say you react a little differently. Not a criticism, just an amused observation.
Anyway, I’ve enjoyed your posts today. At least they have some basis in reality.
I don’t judge managers before they take the field.
If you look at my posts, I have not said one negative thing about Don Mattingly, Joe Girardi or Tony Pena. I think all 3 can do a fine job of managing this team.
So please, don’t try to lump me in with the ‘Clueless Joe’ crowd.
My problem is, and will continue to be, how this ownership group has handled itself in the last few weeks.
Until I see or hear or read something to give me encouragement that these guys are more than a bunch of frat boys who have the keys to Daddy’s Porsche and are out for a joy ride…I’m going to continue to be critical.
And BTW, we can debate the merits of Joe Torre until the cows come home.
Bottom line is this
Joe Torre has 4 World Championships.
Joe Torre is 2nd on the all-time Yankees win list.
Joe Torre is a Hall of Fame manager.
Joe Torre will be remembered as one of the all-time great Yankee managers.
Doreen,
Like football players, I’m different on gameday! lol
Also, unfortunately more than a few aliases seem to show up on gamedays using my screen name. Its hard for me to tell which posts to defend that are mine and which are not on gamedays.
However, I readily admit game day frustrations at times.
The problem with Mattingly: On May 7, he was the manager for the day in a game against Seattle. In the eighth inning, Bloomquist attempts to steal second and is out by about two feet. Umpire blows the call as every fan watching the game in the stadium and at home could clearly see. Cano jumps up and down but doesn’t really argue and Mattingly sits in the dugout and doesn’t move. After the game, the ump admits he blew it (after watching the replay). Mattingly says that there was no reason for him to leave the dugout because Cano didn’t argue and there was no one for him to protect! He should have been out there protecting the team!
Of course, that run scored and a HR in the ninth off Mo wins the game for the Mariner.
That is Donnie the Manager.
No, that was Donnie not trying to show up Joe.
Joe Gir-ar-di!
And Joe Torre is 4-13 in his last 17 post-season games and has lost his last FOUR post-season series, the last 3 in the first round.
When you list the achievements, also list those because its relevent to the discussion.
How much longer do you want the Yankees to pay Joe Torre for 1996-2001? Do you really think he should be Manager for Life of the New York Yankees?
At some point, all tenures end in sports. Bernie Williams was also one of the best CF’s in the franchise’s history. Eventually, he had to be replaced. Same goes for a manager.
To completely ignore the last 4 years of Joe Torre’s work is not telling the entire story. The fact is, he hasn’t been as effective a manager, especially in the post-season, as he was in the past. That is, if you think 4 straight post-season series defeats, the ONLY manager in the history of the franchise to lose 4 straight post-season series, is ok.
Geez, even Torre’s biggest fans can’t defend his management of pitchers, especially bullpen guys.
Arod hitting 8th in the biggest game of the year last year? Matsui hitting behind Arod in Cleveland, even though he couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn the last month of the season? Overusing Joba the FIRST DAY the Joba Rules were lifted? Not exactly inspiring decisions.
If you are going to list the record, list the ENTIRE record. That’s why he isn’t back as Yankee manager. That, and the fact that he turned down a 1 year deal.
Nothing to do with showing up Joe. Joe was suspended for the game. Donny was in charge. I just went back through the blog and found Pete’s report on the game. Here is what he wrote:
“It’s part of the game, you have to accept it,� bench coach (and interim manager) Don Mattingly said. “It’s the human part of the game.�
THAT IS WRONG! You go out there and argue your butt off… the call was probably the worst call I saw by an umpire this year! It calls in to question Donny’s passion as a manager.
This story got lost in the broohaha of Clemens returning.
Phil,
Exactly. Geez, a one game trial on Mattingly before passing judgment on him.
And folks think the Steinbrenners are impatient! lol
He also told Michael Kay after that game that he wasn’t going to do something like that because it wasn’t his team.
He said the last thing he wanted to do is create a Donnie vs. Joe thing because it was a time when Torre was getting hammered for his passivity among members of the media and fan base.
Tells me he had a pretty fair grip on the situation.
He also told Kay that when its his team he will act accordingly, given the situation.
All you can ask for from a manager.
You are not telling the entire story when you say Torre was 3-14 in last 17 postseason games.
What is overall postseason record?
What was the 2008 Yankee’s record on May 31?
How far back were the Yankees in AL East on May 31?
How many games did they finish out of the AL East?
You say that Torre’s bullpen management was the reason he had to go. What bullpen decisions cost the Yankees any of the last 4 postseason series they played in?
C’mon man. The Yankees won in the postseason when they had dominant pitching.
When they didn’t have dominant pitching, they lost. Simple as that. You know that better than anybody.
You are the one not providing the entire story. Your focus is on 4 postseason series.
Anyway…I have to go…
Good luck to all the candidates. I think it will be Mattingly. I’m glad the decision will be made quickly.
Later
SJ44 wrote: “He also told Michael Kay after that game that he wasn’t going to do something like that because it wasn’t his team.
“He said the last thing he wanted to do is create a Donnie vs. Joe thing because it was a time when Torre was getting hammered for his passivity among members of the media and fan base.”
WOW! That just as bad or maybe worse! A play that was game changing and he would rather kiss Joe’s ass than do what is right for the team. For that night it was his team and he blew it. And if he said that, it seems more of an excuse crafted after the fact then a real reason. How do you show up the regular manager by arguing a call that was decided incorrectly when you are the interim manager???? How do we know he will not make other decisions next year in order to not show up Joe Torre for his lack of success in the past four years?
Yes — it was only one game and if the manager had gone out there and was able to get the umpire to check with any of the other umpires, they would have clearly seen the call was wrong. Donny made a bad decision under pressure. I was at the game sitting 50 feet beyond the third base umpire and I knew what was happening. I am sorry that he doesn’t have any other managerial experience for us to review but is that our fault?
My clear memories of this game is a large part of the reason I believe that Girardi will make a far better manager.
“Bottom line is this
Joe Torre has 4 World Championships.
Joe Torre is 2nd on the all-time Yankees win list.
Joe Torre is a Hall of Fame manager.
Joe Torre will be remembered as one of the all-time great Yankee managers.”
If you’re an old time Yankee follower (like me), you may remember one Casey Stengel:
Casey Stengel, between 1949-1960 won an astounding 7 World Championships and 10 A.L. Pennants.
Casey Stengel won a record 5 consecutive World Championships.
Casey Stengel IS a Hall of Fame manager.
Casey Stengel is already remembered as one of the all-time great Yankee managers.
What happened to Casey Stengel after 12 years as the most successful manager in baseball? He was fired! Why? Because he had gotten old and the game started passing him by.
The final straw came in the 1960 World Series against the Pirates. Casey refused to start his ace, Whitey Ford, in Game 1, thus insuring that he would not get 3 starts, including Game 7. Casey also was a firm believer in platooning with lefty vs right/righty vs lefty matchups.
Early in game 1, Casey pinch hit for his light hitting, slick fielding 3rd basemen, Clete Boyer, without success).
Many observers believed that this move so unnerved Boyer that he lost all confidence with the bat for the remainder of the Series. Casey’s time had come.
Interesting parallels between Torre and Stengel. The time was right, set in motion by the 2004 collapse.
It can’t be argued that the failure of the team to go the ultimate prize of the World Series since 2003 was predominently pitching whether it was the lack of it or the managing of it. Both Brian Cashman and Joe Torre bear most of the responsibility for the failures.
Cashman either didn’t provide or develop the pitching until he convinced ownership that it was necessary to go in a better direction of development rather than the same course of signing marquee names. By doing so, it’s given the team the infusion of youth that started this year and promises to continue. During this time, Joe Torre managed this team in the same style and same strategies regardless of who the players were that he was given. In summary, Cashman saw the error of his ways and chose to change them whereas Torre remained the same. Any of the candidates should have seen this with all having enough exposure with the team to determine what they would do differently. The one that recognizes the need of change and keep in step with the times is the most deserving of the three. Joe Girardi stands out as that man.
Latham Joe is correct. Like Casey Stengel, Joe Torre has allowed the game to pass him by. There’s a new generation of Yankees coming and Torre couldn’t quite see it. It was Leo Durocher that once said, “Nice guys finish last”. Obviously with the talent Torre had he wasn’t about to finish last but he did get stagnant.
Give me a break Chuck. I’ve been watching the game a long time and there’s no way they change that call at second in the Mariners game if Mattingly argues. Maybe a HR that is fair or foul they might change, but not on a play like that. It just doesn’t happen. You’re grasping at straws.
You are wrong ND Yank. This wasn’t the usual bang-bang play at 2nd. This was clearly a bad call — Bloomquist was nowhere near the base when tagged. Mattingly could have taken advantage of his low key demeanor and tried to be persuasive. But even if the ump won’t ask for help (and like I said, he knew he was wrong — and he may have realized it before seeing the replay) and the call stands, it is a manager’s OBLIGATION to go out there and tell the umpire how badly he screwed up the call. I am not saying that Mattingly should have gotten kicked out of the game, but this was his chance to do what a manager is supposed to do and he failed the test.
There is absolutely no reason NOT to be on the field and talking to the ump there. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
I was watching the game Chuck and the call would’ve stood. Should Donnie have gone out there and argued? Sure. But to base your judgement on how Mattingly will be as a manager off of that one play is beyond ridiculous.
Torre should have spoke up no later than the winter of 2002 and told the still coherent George through Cashman that the team needed to go in a different direction or the three-peat of 2000 would be a distant memory. But no. Old “don’t make waves” Torre just sat back and accepted the likes of Kevin Brown, Estaban Loaiza, Raul Mondesi et al or any other name that struck George’s fancy.
At that point in time, Hank and Hal had no desire to be connected to the team and Randy Levine was up to his ears in trying to structure a deal for a new stadium.
Once Cashman detected George was slipping, he saved his job by convincing both Levine and George that change was necessary to forge ahead and get younger, stating his case well enough.
Meantime ‘Ol Joe was content to live off the old championships and be content with mediocrity thinking he was reasonably secure.