Comments on: Friday looking like the day

By: Frankie D.

Frankie D. — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:27:29 +0000

Torre should have spoke up no later than the winter of 2002 and told the still coherent George through Cashman that the team needed to go in a different direction or the three-peat of 2000 would be a distant memory. But no. Old “don’t make waves” Torre just sat back and accepted the likes of Kevin Brown, Estaban Loaiza, Raul Mondesi et al or any other name that struck George’s fancy.
At that point in time, Hank and Hal had no desire to be connected to the team and Randy Levine was up to his ears in trying to structure a deal for a new stadium.
Once Cashman detected George was slipping, he saved his job by convincing both Levine and George that change was necessary to forge ahead and get younger, stating his case well enough.
Meantime ‘Ol Joe was content to live off the old championships and be content with mediocrity thinking he was reasonably secure.

By: ND Yank

ND Yank — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:23:44 +0000

I was watching the game Chuck and the call would’ve stood. Should Donnie have gone out there and argued? Sure. But to base your judgement on how Mattingly will be as a manager off of that one play is beyond ridiculous.

By: Chuck

Chuck — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:00:24 +0000

You are wrong ND Yank. This wasn’t the usual bang-bang play at 2nd. This was clearly a bad call — Bloomquist was nowhere near the base when tagged. Mattingly could have taken advantage of his low key demeanor and tried to be persuasive. But even if the ump won’t ask for help (and like I said, he knew he was wrong — and he may have realized it before seeing the replay) and the call stands, it is a manager’s OBLIGATION to go out there and tell the umpire how badly he screwed up the call. I am not saying that Mattingly should have gotten kicked out of the game, but this was his chance to do what a manager is supposed to do and he failed the test.

There is absolutely no reason NOT to be on the field and talking to the ump there. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

By: ND Yank

ND Yank — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:59:51 +0000

Give me a break Chuck. I’ve been watching the game a long time and there’s no way they change that call at second in the Mariners game if Mattingly argues. Maybe a HR that is fair or foul they might change, but not on a play like that. It just doesn’t happen. You’re grasping at straws.

By: Vinny

Vinny — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:32:34 +0000

Latham Joe is correct. Like Casey Stengel, Joe Torre has allowed the game to pass him by. There’s a new generation of Yankees coming and Torre couldn’t quite see it. It was Leo Durocher that once said, “Nice guys finish last”. Obviously with the talent Torre had he wasn’t about to finish last but he did get stagnant.

By: The D train

The D train — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:19:38 +0000

It can’t be argued that the failure of the team to go the ultimate prize of the World Series since 2003 was predominently pitching whether it was the lack of it or the managing of it. Both Brian Cashman and Joe Torre bear most of the responsibility for the failures.
Cashman either didn’t provide or develop the pitching until he convinced ownership that it was necessary to go in a better direction of development rather than the same course of signing marquee names. By doing so, it’s given the team the infusion of youth that started this year and promises to continue. During this time, Joe Torre managed this team in the same style and same strategies regardless of who the players were that he was given. In summary, Cashman saw the error of his ways and chose to change them whereas Torre remained the same. Any of the candidates should have seen this with all having enough exposure with the team to determine what they would do differently. The one that recognizes the need of change and keep in step with the times is the most deserving of the three. Joe Girardi stands out as that man.

By: LathamJoe

LathamJoe — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:12:37 +0000

“Bottom line is this

Joe Torre has 4 World Championships.
Joe Torre is 2nd on the all-time Yankees win list.
Joe Torre is a Hall of Fame manager.

Joe Torre will be remembered as one of the all-time great Yankee managers.”

If you’re an old time Yankee follower (like me), you may remember one Casey Stengel:

Casey Stengel, between 1949-1960 won an astounding 7 World Championships and 10 A.L. Pennants.

Casey Stengel won a record 5 consecutive World Championships.

Casey Stengel IS a Hall of Fame manager.

Casey Stengel is already remembered as one of the all-time great Yankee managers.

What happened to Casey Stengel after 12 years as the most successful manager in baseball? He was fired! Why? Because he had gotten old and the game started passing him by.
The final straw came in the 1960 World Series against the Pirates. Casey refused to start his ace, Whitey Ford, in Game 1, thus insuring that he would not get 3 starts, including Game 7. Casey also was a firm believer in platooning with lefty vs right/righty vs lefty matchups.
Early in game 1, Casey pinch hit for his light hitting, slick fielding 3rd basemen, Clete Boyer, without success).
Many observers believed that this move so unnerved Boyer that he lost all confidence with the bat for the remainder of the Series. Casey’s time had come.

Interesting parallels between Torre and Stengel. The time was right, set in motion by the 2004 collapse.

By: Chuck

Chuck — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:12:28 +0000

SJ44 wrote: “He also told Michael Kay after that game that he wasnâ€™t going to do something like that because it wasnâ€™t his team.

“He said the last thing he wanted to do is create a Donnie vs. Joe thing because it was a time when Torre was getting hammered for his passivity among members of the media and fan base.”

WOW! That just as bad or maybe worse! A play that was game changing and he would rather kiss Joe’s ass than do what is right for the team. For that night it was his team and he blew it. And if he said that, it seems more of an excuse crafted after the fact then a real reason. How do you show up the regular manager by arguing a call that was decided incorrectly when you are the interim manager???? How do we know he will not make other decisions next year in order to not show up Joe Torre for his lack of success in the past four years?

Yes — it was only one game and if the manager had gone out there and was able to get the umpire to check with any of the other umpires, they would have clearly seen the call was wrong. Donny made a bad decision under pressure. I was at the game sitting 50 feet beyond the third base umpire and I knew what was happening. I am sorry that he doesn’t have any other managerial experience for us to review but is that our fault?

My clear memories of this game is a large part of the reason I believe that Girardi will make a far better manager.

By: Jonathon

Jonathon — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:29:47 +0000

You are not telling the entire story when you say Torre was 3-14 in last 17 postseason games.

What is overall postseason record?

What was the 2008 Yankee’s record on May 31?

How far back were the Yankees in AL East on May 31?

How many games did they finish out of the AL East?

You say that Torre’s bullpen management was the reason he had to go. What bullpen decisions cost the Yankees any of the last 4 postseason series they played in?

C’mon man. The Yankees won in the postseason when they had dominant pitching.

When they didn’t have dominant pitching, they lost. Simple as that. You know that better than anybody.

You are the one not providing the entire story. Your focus is on 4 postseason series.

Anyway…I have to go…

Good luck to all the candidates. I think it will be Mattingly. I’m glad the decision will be made quickly.

Later

By: SJ44

SJ44 — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:23:18 +0000

He also told Michael Kay after that game that he wasn’t going to do something like that because it wasn’t his team.

He said the last thing he wanted to do is create a Donnie vs. Joe thing because it was a time when Torre was getting hammered for his passivity among members of the media and fan base.

Tells me he had a pretty fair grip on the situation.

He also told Kay that when its his team he will act accordingly, given the situation.

All you can ask for from a manager.