Little Stein: It’s transition time
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 24, 2007 
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Hammerin’ Hank Steinbrenner spoke to reporters down in Tampa again today. After years in the background, turns out he’s Regis.
On a new manager: “I think the most important thing is, whoever we hire, give him a chance. Because he’s not getting the ’96 Yankees. He’s getting a younger team, and for the most part, it’s a transition period, so give him a little while.”
OK, so the new guy should get a chance because it’s a transition period. But Joe Torre had to get to the World Series.
I can respect the idea that they wanted Torre out. I subscribe to the idea that change can be good. But why didn’t they just say, “Joe, we want to make a change. Thanks for everything.” Why did they go through the whole thing of pretending to want him?
The Hank n’ Hal Yankees should be quite a time.
Meanwhile, Little Stein admitted they were down to three candidates and that a decision should come soon.
George needs to send his buddy Howard Rubenstein to Hank and Hal’s office and tell them to shut up and let Howard craft their comments. If they keep talking, they’ll become the Laurel and Hardy of baseball (if they haven’t done it already).
Pete, what are your impressions of Hal ‘n Hank? Which one is the alpha dog among the two?
Well, they tried to “sugar coat” not wanting Torre to return and it somewhat backfired on them.
lowering the expectations to shock NY, I like what Hank said, I see no problem in what he said.
The issue with Torre was losing 13 of the last 17 playoff games. The new manager will not have that baggage.
They were going to give Joe a chance but HE turned it down. Yes they gave Joe an offer he could refuse, but that same offer was one he could have accepted just as well, but chose not to do so. I understand Joe’s reasons, but I also understand the Yankee’s reasons for not offer more than a year.
The team isn’t going to be the same as last year, many of the young kids will be up to stay and not just to fill in when needed. They will be going through a learning process so who knows what the results of next year will be. I can understand the need to be patient with the new manager as he adjust to the current players and brings along the new guys.
good point pete. Nothing that comes from this guys mouth surprises me, it is what it is.
Pete, what the hell else do you expect them to say, “by all means, kill the manager if he doesn’t succeed immediately.” Shouldn’t a quote like that be indication that Hank ISN’T just like his old man, who most certainly WOULD have said something like that. What Hank said was exactly the right thing to say and, though it won’t be kept in mind by the uber-dramatic fans who seem to feel their family honor was just insulted instead of Joe Torre willingly abandoning “his” players, nor will it be heeded by the media who, just like when Herm Edwards left, seem determined to make the next person pay if they aren’t as media friendly as the predecessor.
“Why did they go thru the whole thing of pretending to want him?”
I think it’s because they didn’t want to be seen as “firing” Joe Torre, which is how it would have been spun by the media.
And at the end of the day they were okay with him managing the last year of Yankee Stadium because that was something they thought meant a lot to Torre, based on his own words.
And they were willing to go beyond that, ie an additional year, only if Joe showed he had adapted his methods enough to have the team ready to continue to play at a high level in October
“OK, so the new guy should get a chance because it’s a transition period. But Joe Torre had to get to the World Series.”
this is terrible logic.
yes, the brand new manager should be given a chance.
yes, the guy who failed to deliver 7 years in a row and wanted to make double the salary of the second highest paid manager should should be held to a different standard.
i don’t get it, the new manager will make a LOT less money than Torre. Torre wanted the big bucks, he needs to deliver. isn’t that what you have been saying about A-Rod for the last year?
you make it sound like Torre won the World Series in 2006 and they fired him in 2007.
I agree with everything that you said Pete. As stated before, the Yankees offer was transparent and the fact that they would not budge on it proves it. They should have just said goodbye and left it at that. It’s ok they’re still the team I root for and Torre is Yankee Icon no matter what the haters on here believe. Here’s hope Randy Levine gets some karma come back his way and finds himself out of the Yankees organization within a couple of years.
ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE….
Torre has to win the World Series but we have to give the new manager some time!!!!!
Are you kidding me?!?!?!?
Please do not take my dignified and respected team and turn it into the laughing stock of the Major Leagues.
I’ve been through that once already and I can’t do it again.
“good point pete. Nothing that comes from this guys mouth surprises me, it is what it is.”
some people have really lost all objectivity on this issue. there is not a SINGLE controversial thing in that quote yet everyone is pretending that there is.
Transition period my rear-end. Get A-Rod back, get Pettite back, and let’s roll. I DO NOT want to see Boston in first place, in April, May, June, July, August, or September.
God help us all if he’s Regis!
(Well, at least Regis loves his Yankees.) Actually, it might be refreshing, or at least amusing, to have statements coming from an actual person rather than crafted by the PR department or Howard.
Does it seem like Hank and Hal know what they are doing or are they spinning their wheels a bit? The only reason that I ask that is because they had both expressed reluctancy in the past to take over for George. Personally I think that everything will be fine with the team as long as they keep Cashman around. Sure Cashman has made a few mistakes, but you show me a GM who is perfect and I’ll show you a GM who is afraid to make a move or who has never made a move.
Pete,
I think you are parsing his words a little too much.
They didn’t want Joe Torre out. They wanted him for only one more year. Big difference.
Their offer STILL made him the highest paid manager (by quite a bit) in the game.
I readily agree, Levine using the word “motivation” was dumb and unnecessary. That was a mistake and a bad one.
You could argue the offer was tantamount to wanting him out. However, that doesn’t jive with the fact that Torre himself was looking for only a 1 year extension back in ST.
What if Torre said “yes” to the offer? He would have been back.
I think the Steinbrenner Brothers are going to take heat from certain members of the media if they don’t choose the guy certain members of the media want to manage the team. You could already see it setting up now. If Mattingly doesn’t get the job, they will pounce. If Girardi gets it, the “Yankees dissed Mattingly” stories will be all over the place.
This has gone beyond covering a story. Its now become folks wanting their journalistic pound of flesh for Joe Torre.
When you step back and really examine the situation, the time had come to change managers. Plainly put, Joe Torre was not as good a manager as he was in the past. It has more to do with the way he ran the team, in particular his (mis)use of the bullpen, than it does with anything else.
Like players, managers also reach a point where they are no longer as good as they once were. I believe Torre came to that point in his career. Sadly, there wasn’t an amicable parting. But, that’s big time sports. It happens everywhere these days.
If you look at the selection process for the new manager, its hard to argue they aren’t being smart. They are involving all relevent departments in the matter (de-bunking the “Cashman has no power” theory), and have 3 quality candidates for the job.
There hasn’t been any knee jerk stuff going on. They are moving swiftly. As a fan, and as journalist covering the story, isn’t that what’s relevent?
I prefer to wait and see if Hank ‘N Hal really do something screwed up (like trading Joba Chamberlain for a 37 year old DH) before pouncing on them as buffoons. Aside from not bringing back a manager who was popular with large segments of the media, they haven’t done anything yet to mess up the team.
I also don’t see any mass player defections over Joe Torre not coming back.
I am not saying these guys are perfect. I am saying, let’s not be too hasty in judging them.
In 1995, under similar circumstances, the Daily News called the new manager, “Clueless Joe”. How dumb do they look today?
Let’s not make the same mistake on the Steinbrenner Brothers. Let’s see what they do with the entire team before jumping to conclusions.
“He’s not getting the ’96 Yankees.”
No he’s getting a team that won 94 games this year, went to the playoffs 12 straight years and has a payroll of over $200 million dollars.
This is NOT a transition year and for him to try to lower expectations of Yankees fans on this team and the new manager is patently ridiculous.
Torre was crushed on the altar of outrageous expectations from the fans and the ownership.
The next guy gets a pass because he’s new…I don’t think so.
That tells me either Joe or Donnie knocked their socks off.
more crap from little Stein. Amateur hour at the Apollo. The Hankees lose more credibility each time little Stein speaks. What an ass!!!!
With a group of veterans, an infusion of homegrowns, and a new manager running the team; the 2008 Yanks have the potential to be more like the ’96 team than any team has since then.
And of course Joe Torre is going to be held to a higher standard than the new guy. He’s been around the block already 12 times and paid many millions of dollars.
It is funny the media and fans were calling for Joe’s head back in May, now it’s “oh the Yankees shoudn’t be doing this to him”.
Funny is all I can say.
Speaking of Clueless Joe. Did anyone read the story in newsday from the guy.
Also does anyone know (pete I am sure does( if any of the current beat writers were around when Matingly was a player same thing with Girardi. I am thinking maybe George King (mattingly) AND Tyler Kepner (Girardi) but other than not not sure
whatever, this is a completely innocuous quote.
what SHOULD he say?? “the new manager has ONE season to win the World Series or he will be fired!” is that reasonable?
guys, Joe Torre is GONE. this has nothing to do with Torre. this has to do with moving forward.
in the interest of moving forward, he is asking the fans to give the new guy a chance.
it’s a completely level-headed and realistic thing to say. you guys are just desperately looking for a villain b/c everyone’s favorite kindly old Uncle Joe is gone and you want someone to blame it on.
Yes, but Joey, if you don’t think the new guy will do as good a job, then keep Torre. I agree with Peter — if they had just admitted they wanted to make a change, they would have at least come across as being honest.
The Yankees don’t want a new manager coming in thinking that if he doesn’t get the team to the ws he is fired. That is not a good way to start out.
If “little Stien” is Hank, then which one is Hal? “Even smaller Stien”? Seriously tho- we only seem to hear from Hank. Does Hal feel the same as his big mouth bro?
While I am all for change but sad to see Joe go, I agree with those that say this whole thing has been a huge PR disaster!
Please, it IS a team in transition.
Look at the roster: Chamberlain, Veras, Ohlendorf, Hughes, Kennedy, Ramirez, that’s HALF the pitching staff with LESS than 2 years ML experience.
Their CF is only in his second season. Wang and Cano are only 2 1/2 seasons into their careers. Shelley Duncan just came up this year.
That’s 40% of the roster with UNDER 3 years ML experience.
That’s a team in transition. When has the Yankees ever been this young in the last 10 years?
If you are going to go postal over everything the guy says, actually EXAMINE the situation. He’s right, they are transitioning the team.
It may even be younger once the season starts. Doesn’t mean they aren’t trying to win and he NEVER said they weren’t.
Honestly, some of you just complain for the sake of complaining. Especially when you don’t take a moment and look at the facts.
“more crap from little Stein. Amateur hour at the Apollo. The Hankees lose more credibility each time little Stein speaks. What an ass!!!!”
then please find a new team to root for.
No, Hmmmm, I think many of us have seen this kind of management before, and we don’t want to see it again (I refer you to the 80s).
“Honestly, some of you just complain for the sake of complaining. Especially when you don’t take a moment and look at the facts.”
amen, it’s starting to get embarrassing.
hmmmmm,
I also said “it is what it is”
You must realize that there is a difference of opinion on what happened last week. You see it one way, i see it another way. But as i said, it is what it is.
I dont care for Hank or Hal. It just funny that a guy who never opened his mouth keeps saying terrible things.
What he said last week about how his dad made joe torre sounds like george w bush saying he is going after saddam because he tried to kill my “daddy”
Its an idiot move, but he is the owner and he can say what he wants, it is what it is.
I dont care anymore about this torre issue, its in the past.
No avalanche of words can change their actions, which tell the truth as always. The only reason Joe was even in a room with them was because he called them. They didn’t call him. The offer was take it or leave it. No amount of calling reporters to whine about other reporters will change reality. They were entitled to want to move on, fine. They don’t understand it’s not what the media thinks, it’s what the fans think. As far as the 1996 team, its evolution in accurate detail is described in Joel Sherman’s book. That’s in case anyone wants the real story, not just spin.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…
I’m not saying that Hank isn’t very smart, because like SJ44 said, there isn’t much of a track record to judge him by. But, I’d think that someone raised with a silver spoon like Hank would be a little more polished around the edges.
Hank will eventually learn that some things are better left unsaid. And that sometimes less is more. And things aren’t always black and white. Oh boy, Hank has a lot to learn, huh?
“what SHOULD he say??”
“No Comment”
OR
“All baseball related questions will be addressed by Brian Cashman”
Either of those would work for me.
Damn you Swindal. You had it all. Yeah, your wife is unattractive. But you had the team! And you blew it!!
SJ44- You got it, it’s a team that has made the transition from using veterans almost exclusively to going with a youth movement. I don’t have any problem with Hank’s quote either. It seems like they are very much in tune with what is happening. And just because they are transitioning a bit doesn’t mean that we are back to the 80s. Quite honestly this “back to the ’80s” stuff is ridiculous.
The 96 Yankees line was a shot at Torre.
Hank is a clown. I have a feeling that Hal is a not an ass like his brother.
OK…transition year eh? Does that mean we get a rollback on the ticket prices? or a lower fee for cable companies to distribute the product. I expect not. In that case too bad we want to win now for what we are paying…and don’t forget little steins who is really paying for the product.
These guys need to make up their minds…win or wait but it can’t be one for the old guy and the other for a new guy.
“No, Hmmmm, I think many of us have seen this kind of management before, and we don’t want to see it again (I refer you to the 80s).”
except that you guys have NO IDEA that the Yankees are heading back to the 80s. none.
you are just ASSUMING that is going to happen based on a few quotes.
no trades have been made, no players have been signed, nothing.
the farm system is stacked, the team is getting younger, and they are coming off a pretty successful season.
in other words, there is NOTHING to indicate a return to the 80′s except for your hysteria.
when the yankees start trading away prospects for 35 year old DH’s, then we’ll talk.
that hasn’t happened yet, has it??
no. nothing has happened except for getting rid of Torre.
Of course you have to give the new guy more time than Torre. Torre knew the players and was comfortable in the spot. He had the NY routines down. The new guy is, well, new. So while he figures out the reins it’ll take a little bit of time and things might not start off as quickly as they would under Torre. I don’t think this is really that crazy of a statement.
SJ you are the one that needs to look at the facts.
The key positions on this team are all veterans. How many combined years do Jeter, A. Rod, Posada, Matsui, Abreu, Damon, Pettitte have in the major leagues?
Two position players and a couple of youngster on the pitching staff doesn’t make them a team in transition. We are not talking about the Florida Marlins here.
The facts are that the Yankees ownership group forced a man who was very popular and very successful with this team.
Every comment they make, they try to soften the blow and hedge their bets about the dismisal of Torre.
Everything they have done is transparently manipulative. Nobody is falling for it.
If they think they can pull the wool over the eyes of anyone in this city, they are sadly mistaken.
I love the, “Its the 80′s again” stuff.
That’s truly priceless.
What evidence is there that its the 80′s again.
Have they signed a 5-8 guy to play first base, like they did with Dave Collins?
Are they signing a team full of jerks, like Mel Hall?
Are they trading all the young pitchers and bringing in a bunch of rejects?
Its wonderful throwaway line to make when voicing disapproval. The problem is, its not rooting in ANY logic.
If anything, the exact OPPOSITE is going on. They are more committed to younger players than ever before (wasn’t the case in the 80′s).
They are investing even MORE money in amateur scouting and the farm system (wasn’t the case in the 80′s).
They actually have the “nerve” to preach patience for the new manager (wasn’t the case in the 80′s).
So, instead of writing a throwaway phrase, try examining the situation.
NOTHING that’s happening resembles the 80′s. None of it.
WOW, lol, you people are out of control.
I actually like Hank. Pretty good article in the nyt:
(I’m going to attempt to quote but I’ll probably mess it up)
[quote]
In a telephone interview Monday night, for example, Steinbrenner suggested that the Red Sox were where they were because of the inspiration they took from their rivalry with the Yankees. His comments came in response to the question of whether the Red Sox had passed the Yankees because this was their second World Series in four years.
“No, nobody would think that,� Steinbrenner said. “If you look at the last 12 years, we’ve won four and they’ve won one. We’ve been in six; they’ve been in one. No, they haven’t passed us. They’ve done a great job, don’t get me wrong. They’ve done what they had to do to keep up with us.
“The Red Sox,� Steinbrenner acknowledged, “have become a popular team.� Then he added, “If it wasn’t for the rivalry with us, they’d be just another team.�
“They talk about Red Sox nation,� he said. “We talk about Yankee universe. As bad as they want it, they’ll never be the Yankees with their brand.�
“What would they be if they were in another division?� Steinbrenner asked. “They’d still be good, but there are other good teams in baseball. The bottom line is the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is the best thing baseball has going for it.�
The brightest part of the Yankees’ future, Hank said, is their young pitchers, including Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. “We have the best young pitching in baseball,� he said, “not just in the majors but in the minors coming behind them. As long as we keep adding young position players like Cabrera and Canó, we’re going to be tough for 10 years,� he said in reference to outfielder Melky Cabrera and second baseman Robinson Canó.
[/quote]
What’s not to like about that?
yeah, i’m bad at msg boards. sorry
Ugh, your blog has become unreadable. Do you even believe the garbage you have been writing lately or are you just trying to use create drama because their is no baseball in NY and you need a story right now? I thought you were better than that. I don’t like or respect Mike and the Mad Dog because they make outrageous comments solely to annoy fans and get a reaction. They don’t really believe what they say – they are not that stupid. Their jobs are to stir up trouble, cause unnecessary drama, and sell ad time. They do that and do that well. However, they use their audience. They have been in NYC for over 15 years with the same transparent act. Unfortunately, most listeners are to stupid to get the joke. Congratulations, you have now become Christopher Russo. So much for journalistic integrity….you guys are all manipulative jokes.
Anthony I respect your opinion but I must disagree.
You don’t make a change to go backwards. If you are saying patience as in a bad preseason or April thats one thing if you are saying the new guy gets a year honeymoon I couldn’t disagree more. We have key guys aging and need to win ASAP also we don’t want the young guys getting used to losing or else we end up the Devil Rays…the most talented team in baseball that has no clue how to win.
the more Hank talks, the more he shows the future could hold a battle between the two sons….. From what I’ve read, we might be better off with just Hal, the more rational one who would more likely let guys who actually know baseball make the decisions.
When did the “business of baseball” become business, not baseball……….. Big Stein wanted to win, little Stein (at least one of them) wants to make his mark using Daddy’s company and doesn’t know what he’s doing yet.
I mentioned yesterday that they should go with co-managers. The more and more I think about it the more i like the idea. Have every other game be managed by Girardi or Mattingly and by the all star break pick the winner. It could be a new reality show. The in your face coach vs. the laid back Torre jr.
In all seriousness I think that comment sounds like Mattingly has the upper hand,being that he has no experience and that they are making it clear that they will be patient.
If it was Girardi I dont think he would get a free pass.
I’d like to ask all of the poster who are defending the comments of Hal Steinbrenner what your expectation for the Yankees are next year?
Is it ok for this team to go 86-76 and miss the playoffs?
Is the only acceptable result a World Series title?
Which is it?
Apparently Joe had to go because the Yankees didn’t win the World Series.
But in the same sentence, the new manager doesn’t have to make it to the World Series because this is a transition year.
Which one is it? Because it seems to me like a double standard and I’m just trying to understand.
SJ
Not only IS it a team in transition it HAS BEEN a team in transition. This is the first time that management has acknowledged it though. Makes you wonder if the disappointment, disappointment, disappointment quote from Torre last night had something to do with.
Torre’s final legacy as a Yankee manager may be that he helped inject a little reality back into managements view of the teams mission statement.
That 1996 team is basically a not so veiled shot at Torre’s first championship. Suddenly we are supposed to remember that team as one of the all time greats? Well yeah in retrospect the young Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter coming up and gelling at the same time to go with great trades for Cone and Tino and veterans O’Neill and Bernie made for a great team, but still. If anything 2007 was a transition year, does Hank not see that? In 2008 the team is a year past transition, unless of course A Rod leaves, then all bets are off.
Oh and by the way, this is all just spin so when the new manager gets a 3 year deal while Torre was only offerred one, they can say they are rebuilding.
See this is what lying organiztions do, they make one lie and then lie more to cover up the first lie and so on. They may as well just sell the f ing team to James Dolan, he is much better at the spin game than any Steinbrenner will ever be. The Yankees I loved are dead.
Well said Ed Whitson, I couldnt have put it any better myself.
I come on sites like for NEWS about the Yankees, not soap operas being written by the mainstream media.
This is the reason why sites like the Hardball Times and Baseball Prospectus have become popular reads, because they talk about pure BASEBALL, what a crazy concept. Stick to the facts, please.
I feel like the baseball media has become an army of Mike Lupicas.
He doesn’t know what he’s doing?
Why does he site the wealth of young pitching that we have FOLLOWING Wang, Hughes, Joba and Kennedy? (horne, sanchez, melancon, cox, whelan, betances, heredia, brackman, etc)
He talks about building the young positional talent in the system in order to embark on another run of sustained dominance. WHERE IS THE PROBLEM? Have you people been that blinded by uncle Joe? wow.
Jonathan,
40% of the roster IS transitioning. Name me another playoff team this year that has 40% of its roster turned over in one season? Just because they are transistioning dosen’t mean they don’t want to win.
One could argue they have done an excellent job of transitioning AND remaining competitive.
It doesn’t have to be a Florida Marlins situation for there to be a transitioning of personnel.
BTW, don’t leap to the conclusion that Torre was as popular with the fans as he was with the media. He wasn’t.
Fact is, MANY fans have felt for sometime new blood was needed in the manager’s office.
I agree with Keith. The Times story gave a little more insight, and some balance to what Hank Steinbrenner beliefs are concerning the direction of the franchise.
Each time I post this board fills up with more nonsense. I really need to stop reading these comments.
Pete, you’ve become a bit too sensationalist and your audience now sound like the callers from M&MD.
Hank is a chain smoking fool. The line was clearly a shot at Torre basically implying any manager could win with the 96 team.
I love how the word patience is being thrown around here.
Where was the patience with a manager who guided this team to the postseason 12 straight years?
Where was the patience with a manager who had the respect of every single player who came through the clubhouse (excluding two knuckleheads)?
Where was the patience with a manager who had the media in this town eating out of his hand?
Where was the patience with a manager who restored pride to the Yankees through 12 years of nothing but distinguished and graceful service to this team?
Patience…from this ownership group…please…
Not to mention he makes it sound like those 4 championships just happened because the team was already together before Joe came and he did nothing as their coach. What a jerk. They are classless. Their father should be ashamed. As much of an overpowering guy Old Stein is he didnt poop on his own teams memories and legacies. Once something was done it was done. His kids just pile it on. They need to grow up.
40% of the roster IS transitioning. Name me another playoff team this year that has 40% of its roster turned over in one season?
Hate to beat on a dead horse, but the 96 team had a new Catcher, 1st baseman, second baseman, short stops and 3 new starting pitchers.
If that is not transition, what is?
The Yankees are handling this just right. They could have just stuck to using aging veterans until they dropped. I’m going to use a comparison here and show why the Yankee way is right and why it works to go with a youth movement. Look at the Boston Celtics in the early ’90s. They rode Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale until they absolutely dropped and never they tried to go with a youth movement except for the late Reggie Lewis.
The Celtics stuck to using those three and they had no idea what to do when Bird and McHale retired, and Parish went to the Hornets. Only this year do things look bright for the Celts. My point is that it has taken the Celtics nearly 15 years to recover from using aging veterans until they dropped. Isn’t it great that the Yankees have elected to go with a youth movement now before it’s too late? This is perfect timing on their part and there could have been some dark days ahead without it. But now things are bright for the Yankees and there is a great mixture of veterans and youngsters. A great mix, which is something that those old Celtic teams never had.
“Apparently Joe had to go because the Yankees didn’t win the World Series.”
this is such BS.
no, Joe had to go b/c he blew a series with a 3-0 lead, then lost in the first round 3 years in a row.
4 huge failures in 4 years.
these are the FACTS.
was it all Torre’s fault? of course not.
was SOME of it his fault? absolutely.
but let’s not make it sound like Torre would have been fired if the Yankees made it to the WS this year and lost it in 7 games. b/c i doubt that would have happened.
but is it too much for ownership to ask for more than going 1-4 in his last 5 playoff series???
I really like what I’ve heard from Hank Steinbrenner so far. His comments make it seem like he’s listening to the “baseball” guys in the organization.
Hank probably didn’t even watch the 96 Yankees, I wonder if he could name 10 players off that roster.
j-dawg, good point but the McHale, Bird and Parish consits of 3/5 of the starting lineup. And the celtics tried a youth movement, but it died one day doing a bunch of cocaine.
60% is still a majority of the team. When over half the roster are veterans, you are not transitioning.
They have done an excellent job of transitioning and winning. If any year was a transition year, 2007 was. 2008 is not. Ownership is trying to plant that seed so if 2008 does turn out to be a disaster they have a fallback position.
Not everybody is saying a change wouldn’t be a good thing, because I thought last year when they could have had Lou they should have moved on it. It is the whole fact that he keeps running his mouth and throwing verbal shots at Torre. Torre will never return to the stadium now in the future, why should he. Whats he going to do shake Hanks hand.
Amen, EdWhitson.
I think the patience began with Jeff Weaver in 2003.
Then, I think they were *real* patient when they gave him a new contract after the biggest(?) failure in the teams playoff history.
They stuck by him after they limped out of the gate in 05 and through another first round exit.
After the team looked dead in ’06 and he batted the best player on his team 8th. They STILL had patience with uncle Joe.
They lost patience at 4-13 in their last 17 ps games. They lost patience when he let Joba get ruined by the bugs.
Tough crowd we have here.
J-Dawg,
The Celtics did establish the link from the 80s stars to the 90s, but Bias and Lewis both died.
Jeff,
You are kidding right? Its hardly doomsday.
What do you want Hank Steinbrenner to say? You want him to put the new manager on one year notice?
Then, you will complain that’s unfair.
Its real simple. They had high expectations for Joe Torre because they were told over and over he was indispensible to the cause.
When they had the “nerve” to question how the team could get knocked out THREE straight years in the first round (by inferior teams), they were told, “its a crapshoot”.
Funny, but when Joe Torre was winning WS, we never heard it was a crapshoot and not ONCE did Joe Torre not ask for a lot of money in his new deals. The words “crapshoot” were NEVER uttered by Torre during those negotiations.
Its just more hysterics from people who so BADLY want things to fall apart (so they can say they were “right”) they can’t see the forest through the trees.
The Yankees have the best young pitching in the ENTIRE sport.
Three years ago, their farm system was next to last in baseball. Now, its in the Top 6.
They are committing even more money to Latin American and US amateur scouting, as well as building state of the art training centers in the Dominican Republic AND Asia.
All the while, looking to sign their present players AND still remaing competitive on the free agent and trade fronts.
Somebody tell me how the baseball operation is being affected negatively with all they are doing? Tell me how, “its the 80′s again”. They NEVER did this stuff in the 80′s.
Brian Cashman has been given carte blanche to change baseball operations and he has done so. Where has his power been diminished? It hasn’t.
Its just more whining from a segment of the fan base that sounds more like Red Sox fans than Yankee fans these days.
The Real B,
Stop stealing my name.
He did not say the new manager was not expected to get to the World Series. All he said was give the new manager a chance. Is there something inherently wrong with that statement? I think it bodes well that they are willing to be patient, because that will apply not only to a new manager who will be learning the NY ropes, but a lot of young pitchers who are going to have some fits and starts. Torre’s ’96 team had a more veteran pitching staff, no? I think that’s where the youth really comes into play. I think most of us now have high expectations of Wang, Cano and Cabrera. Though they are young, they’ve been through it for at least 2 seasons, 2 and a half for Wang and Cano. Transition means change. A new manager is a transition. 3/5 of a new pitching staff is a transition. Probably a big turnover in the bullpen is a transition.
Whatever. It sounds like it’s going to be a contentious winter here. Torre should have been let go after 2006, with George forfeiting the $7 million. No one would have complained an iota. Even me at the time. I can’t believe anyone is surprised that the ownership was disappointed in the last 3 playoff appearances and the fold in 2004.
Is it true that Torre is going to be on Letterman? I can understand having an interview with Bob Costas – it’s a sports story after all, and a big one. But what can come of a Letterman appearance?
Pete – did you go to school with Hank and he used to take your lunch money or something? I mean that is the only reason i can think of why you are so blatantly irrational and biased about this. I have no idea if the new manager will work out or how Hank will do but the other day during the press conference you attacked Hank and Hal for letting Levine run it. You said they should have taken charge. Now everytime they speak you have some comment ridiculing Hank for speaking. You shouldnt be able to have it both ways.
At this point, I’m gonna sit tight. I think we’re in good hands with Donnie or Girardi. While I prefer Girardi, strictly because I think he’ll bring a toughness back to the team that quite honestly has been lost for awhile, I also think Donnie might impart some of that fire all of us who watched him play remember.
I think it’s a knee jerk reaction of the fans to say Donnie is an extension of Torre. I’m guilty of it. We see him as the passive bench coach sitting next to Grandpa Joe all these years.
None of us know for sure how he would run this team. The only thing that worries me is that there will be game situations where experience might be an asset. However, Torre had more experience than anyone and he still blew the midges incident with his inaction.
I hope they name the manager this week. I want to see this decided and have the focus go back to the players and the team. Get this Arod thing taken care of one or the other and focus on trades/free agents.
But Bias and Lewis are really the only two examples. They never tried to groom a successor to Bird, McHale, or Parish after that. They drafted a total bust named Michael Smith. They never were able to replace Dennis Johnson. Brian Shaw and Dee Brown never really worked out. You have to be able to pass the torch from the veterans to the youngsters. The Yankees are passing that torch.
“Where was the patience with a manager who had the media in this town eating out of his hand?”
you know, this isn’t necessarily a good thing.
yet another piece of insightful and thoughtful and thorough perspective by SJ44
hmmmm…
Here are some more facts.
12 straight postseasons
74-45 in the postseason
4 World Championships
1173 wins (2nd on the all-time Yankee list)
2067 career wins (8th on the all-time list)
And I ask you this…
How did Bobby Cox do in his last 4 postseason series?
Is he still managing that team?
Was he still able to keep his job even though his team was transitioning?
Once again the expectations put on the Yankees, especially by the fans, are sometimes unrealistic.
We will see what happens next year now that the fans have their pound of flesh for the recent ‘failures’ of the Yankees.
Just out of curiosity, Has Pete said who he wanted as manager?
To the people / idiots who think Hank / Hal are talking out of both sides of their mouths, they are not. Get a clue. The comment, verbatim, is give the guy a chance. i.e. if Donnie has a rough April and rough May, people should not call for his head – the way you called for Joe’s head in April and May….then when we make the playoffs, you forget 4 months before that you wanted him canned and no you plead moral indignation that Randy, Hank, Hal fired the same guy that you wanted gone in June. Hypocrites!
Some dope, called Hank and Hal Laurel and Hardy! Some dope calls Randy Levine Baby Huey. You people are morons. Big deal. They fired a popular manager who flat out underperformed in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 and had the audacity to expect a 2 year guarantee at the same salary or more that he got when he failed. Ugh. Other people can win here, you get that, right? See Buck’s winning % in 94 vs. 2005, 2006, and 2007….hint it was better!!!!
* I think it’s a knee jerk reaction of the fans to say Donnie is an extension of Torre. I’m guilty of it. We see him as the passive bench coach sitting next to Grandpa Joe all these years.
Mattingly was bench coach for just one year. As I see it, it was not the typical bench coach/manager relationship, because in this case it was set up so that Mattingly could be Joe’s apprentice, learning the fine points of managing. I’m sure he also had some input or in-game advice, but this was a very different kind of arrangement.
Paul9:
“Hank is a chain smoking fool. The line was clearly a shot at Torre basically implying any manager could win with the 96 team.”
So, Hank doesn’t worry too much about people not digging his style and he’s not going to weigh every word like Condolezza Rice or Derek Jeter. Why should he? Perceive it as a shot if you like, but I read them as the words of a rich, confident man talking about a team his father owns and which Hank intends to do his best to improve immediately.
I have to say – think one other poster mentioned this – I am tired of this Torre discussion and how Hank n’ Hal treated him – it is what it is and it won’t change. The only significant thing is to report who the next manager is and how he guaranteed a WS win, because as everyone on this blog knows, proved and completed vetted, the playoffs are not a crapshoot but something that can be managed and won.
That aside, I think comments like these from the Hammer are just boorish nonsense that does nothing but sell newspapers and give ESPN or Michael Kay something to waste time on.
Pete, there has to be more important stuff to report about the Yankees than this Sean Hannity/Bill O’Reilly type quips?
ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!
My God, does everything have to be turned into fueling the Torre pity party?
Torre wnated 7-8 million dollars, the Yanks said fine, win the WS then and you’ll get it.
The new guy is not going to be getting paid anywhere close to that kind of money.
It has nothing to do with expecting different things from different managers.
Not every f’n thing has to be about Torre getting slighted, disrespected, or insulted.
Peter, your blog went from being great to being very tiresome and annoying in the past 2 weeks.
Ugh. Read, people. Hank/Hal are right. It is a transition period – we have a new manager. Thus, the term, transition. They are not saying, we will be a .500 team this year. Please show me that!! You people twist words to make arguments that you want to have. They never said, we expect Joe to win the WS, but we expect Donnie to be .500 and will be happy with that. I know you are upset that Joe’s gone, but stop making up stuff.
“Just out of curiosity, Has Pete said who he wanted as manager?”
Joe Torre.
I watched some of the ’96 series on YES Encore/Classics, whatever theyr’e calling it. It seemed to me that Torre made more changes during the game, more pinch-hitters, replacements.
It is always said that the baseball season is a marathon, and you have to play through a lot of games to get to the top at the end. The Yankees have made a science of running the marathon. They have no problem finishing and winning that part of the race. But then, during the playoffs, it really changes into a sprint. And for the last couple of years, it seems to me anyway, they’ve continued to play as if it was marathon in the post season. It seems to me, it’s a different part of the race, and you have to play and pace yourself accordingly. Different sets of rules. Maybe a little more creativity in using your players.
For example, I was so against all the people who wrote in here saying that Matsui should have been benched. Well, I’m no longer sure they were wrong. There really is no time in a sprint to wait for the player to get up to speed. I’m hoping that whoever the new manager is he will be as adept as Torre was at getting through the marathon, but also be able to infuse something new into the post-season. I think Joe had it at one time, but perhaps because the major players were the same, it was easy to assume they would know what to do on their own. A new manager will hopefully not make those same assumptions.
Jonathon,
Here’s more numbers to chew on: 4-13 in this last 17 post-season games and 0-4 in his last 4 post-season series, with 3 straight first round losses.
How much longer to the Steinbrenner’s have to keep paying for 1996-2001?
Under your theory, Joe Torre should be Manager for Life. Very, very few of us subscribe to that theory.
Just like ballplayers, a manager’s tenure can run its course.
“Once again the expectations put on the Yankees, especially by the fans, are sometimes unrealistic.”
i don’t disagree with this.
but yankee fans are full of sh*t when it comes to this b/c it flies completely in the face of everything they’ve been saying about A-Rod for the last 4 years.
can’t have it both ways.
“Pete, what are your impressions of Hal ‘n Hank?”
Pete does impressions?!
Sj you are on fire.. Great posts…..
the Yanks will be fine. they have plenty of good young players…..
RIVER Ave Blues has agreat artile on St Joe… As I have said before he has had incentive clauses in his deals before.
Peter let the Torre (outrage, just joking), is done.. Joe should let it rest already…
Ed Whitson:
I called Levine “Baby Huey.” He looks like Baby Huey to me. So for that I’m a dope and a moron?
In fact, I don’t like Levine because of what I know about him from his work with the Mayor’s office and the fact that he pulled an Al Haig during the Joe Torre conference call. (Do you even know who Al Haig is?) Besides, Levine doesn’t know much about baseball and he’s obnoxious – - kind of like you, I guess.
And uh, by the way, slick… I wasn’t calling for Joe’s head last April May or June or any other time.
I’m sure he means it is a transition period because all of the changes that have taken plae. Had Torre been rehired, it wouldn’t be a transition period because everything would have been the same. Its really not that hard to figure out, but apparently for some cough peter cough, it is.
“The Hank n’ Hal Yankees should be quite a time.”
peter a. has grasped onto the idea that these guys are baseball lightweights. his poking fun at them seems to upset people who supported the idea of making a change with torre.
here’s the deal. they will make some right choices simply because you could flip a coin and make some right choices. the fact they may have made a right choice here with torre doesn’t mean they know wht they are doing, so just because hal n’ hank support your position with torre, it doesn’t make sense to jump on the hal n’ hank bandwagon .
there is no reason to think they know what they are doing. some on the blog have said look at their accomplishments in other areas. on wikopedia there is nothing on hank and a small paragraph on hal. everything it says was yankee related . so what are these great accomplisments in other areas? i want details and web sites. i asked for this a few days ago. also. not a single person on this blog has listed their accomplishmenst with links to back them up.
the reason is obvious. there likely are no accomplishments.
face it folks. the yankees franchise is being held hostage by hal n’ hank.
they are going to be fodder for writers with a sense of humor like pete for as long as they have control of the team.
Pete, your criticism of the new owners is bordering on ridiculous. We know you love Torre and want to ignore his failures in the playoffs in the last few years in spite of all the investments made by the Steins. Do you recognize how much money they lost by not advancing beyond first round?
It is about time to let that go and appreciate what they are doing to reduce the pressure on whoever is going to be the new manager.
Does anyone remember who was in the running with Torre for the manager 12 years ago and who was the “front” runner???
Joe Torre has an offer to manage and ind league team for 5 figures.Fifty Thou sounds about right
Murphydog,
You don’t like Randy Levine because Peter and Mike and Mad Dog tell you not to. Think for yourself. He has done nothing wrong, except bring the Yankees A-Rod, Randy Johnson (not his fault he cracked and broke down in NYC), and dump a popular manager, who has been frankly a failure since 2001. Of course, Peter wants Joe to be the hero and every hero needs a villian, so see Randy Levine. Question everything.
so wait, mike stanley is not catching for the yankees?
Who cares about the past.
I loved torre, loved him, I dint think a manager makes that much of an impact than people seem to think on this board. Bunting jeter over wouldnt have made wang pitch better. Torre was a nice leader of the team that finally won a world series title for us in almost 20 years. He will always be loved for that. But you know what, he is out. And it happened because it happens. Everyone and everybody gets canned. Look at Bernie, Mattingly, Torre and others, this is nothing new, its a trend. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
SJ is 100% correct that this team is not going back to being the Ken Phelpes yankees. It sucked that torre was fired/let go/whatever you want to call it. but its time to move on.
If its Girardi, Mattingly and/or Pena, his impact (most likely) wont be that great and his day will come to.
Cant we all just move on?
Yes Hank is an idiot, yes the yankees treated this episode without “class” But it is what it is. Lets move on
Fact – Joe was the manager for the biggest choke of all time in sports history….like it or not, but that’s the truth and you can’t deny that….for that he should have been fired years ago.
Torre was grossly overpaid for something that happened seven years ago. He should’ve been fired after the 2004 debacle! It’s 4 for the last 17 post season games! If all it’s a “crapshot” (that’s his excuse) then another reason to believe he was overpaid! He could’ve accepted: then what? They would’ve fired him? Jeeez Pete, stick to reporting!
The fact Hank has come out and said Joba will be a starter next year tells you everything you need to know about who is in control, and it’s the baseball guys. Leaving him in the bullpen to replace Mariano in the future is the move a non-baseball moron would make. And I think his comments regarding Torre have been both entertaining and correct. I have seen anything negative from the “new” ownership so far.
They had less patience with Torre because they weren’t going to pay someone top dollar and have them not be able to take the team out of the first round. If that means you might go back in order to go forward, that’s better than stagnating at good, but not quite good enough.
This whole crapshoot thing is getting old too.
Yes, we all know anything can happen in a short series, but it is far from a crapshoot.
I wonder if Torre said that over and over when he was strong arming the Yankees for his 7.5 mi/year deal.
This is such a joke.
When the Steinbrenner hired Torre back in 1995 for the ’96 season, no one else was interviewed. Here is the story by Jack Curry of the New York Times:
“When Torre was hired for the 1996 season”:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....nted=print
I’ve got absolutely no issue whatsoever with what Hank said today. In fact, I 100% agree with it.
randy, i don’t think anyone here is really on the “Hank N’ Hal” bandwagon.
we’re simply not part of the mob with pitchforks and torches either.
it’s way too early to know what these guys will do. so far they have made 1 decision and it’s a decision that yankee fans seem to be split about 50-50 on, no matter what Pete would want us to believe.
the guy made a pretty reasonable comment: “give the new guy a chance” and people flipped out.
pointing out how ridiculous that is does NOT equal jumping on the HNH bandwagon.
Hank and Hal got off to a bad start which I guess they couldn’t avoid. Who would like their first big decision running daddy’s company to be hiring/firing Joe Torre?
I agree with randy1 in that these guys could flip a coin and make some good decisions. But sucking up to them for making change for change’s sake is wrong. The jury is out on these two (with Levine as a minor player I hope). My impression so far, after I got over the Torre episode, is that they are going to be very protective of their failing dad and that they are going to be very, no, fiercely protective of what they perceive his legacy to be. They are also going to do whatever they think is best to give their dad what he wants, no. 27. They may not have had an easy go of it with George as dad, but as he gets weaker and sicker, their natural familial loyalty will mean they will do their best. Let’s hope they have the humility to listen to Stick and Cash instead of Levine.
This could wind up being a touching dad-son baseball story before it is all over – - then again, it could just be baseball’s Long Day’s Journey Into Night.
And the entire interview process took ONE HOUR.
It only took an hour because Torre was going on Sally Jesse Raphael that day and was pressed for time.
Jig is up Peter, a lot of your intelligent posters are seeing through the drama you are trying to create….go back to reporting, which is what you used to do….you are good at it….you are terrible at trying to be Christopher Russo / Joel Sherman / Mike Lupica.
Ed Whitson:
Grow up son. Mike and the Maddog are clowns. I don’t listen to clowns, you or them. As for Pete, I appreciate Mr. Abraham’s voice and perspective. Unlike you, Pete has years spent inside baseball and access to baseball professionals and executives other sports writers. Even still, I don’t agree with Pete all the time.
So please go be righteously indignant with someone else, OK?
Peter,
Joe was guaranteed $5 million. The new manager may not get half that amount. So Torre didn’t need to get to the WS despite your assertion to make a lot of money.
Torre’s teams have played tight in the postseason since they choked away the 2004 ALCS. Consequently, he had done NOTHING to deserve more than one year guaranteed.
That doesn’t mean that he would be fired if his team continued to play tight in the postseason. It merely means that the Yankees believed that they wanted to keep their options open.
I think if the Yankees had told Joe that they wanted to go in another direction, his defenders in the media, like yourself, would have said, couldn’t they at least have offered him one more year.
Again, the Yankees handled this situation with grace, dignity, and class.
Pete – I admire your work and I am not a troll. However, it seems you have an agenda to stir up crap here. The Yanks are turning a new leaf, patience is fine. Stop your badgering, man.
The first baseball decision they made this year was giving Brian Cashman an unlimited budget to sign their draft picks. No small feat (especially for those who believe, “its the 80′s again”) and it incurred the wrath of the Commissioners Office BIGTIME.
Second, they gave Cashman carte blanche in making baseball decisions. Most notably, blowing up the bullpen, moving Chamberlain into a ‘pen role and fast tracking him along with Ian Kennedy. Under George in the 80′s, Cabrera AND Kennedy would have gone to Texas for Eric Gagne. That didn’t happen.
Third, was the Torre situation. Right move, wrong way to handle it.
Fourth will be who they pick as the new manager.
Fifth will be how they handle the Rivera, Posada and Arod negotiations and if they can pursuade Andy to return.
How ’bout this? How ’bout we judge them as they hit each of these issues instead of making blanket doom and gloom statements, none of which has happened?
That said, the early returns are more encouraging than some want to believe. If they were interested in making this the “80′s again”, they would have NEVER authorized the money they authorized Cashman to sign draft picks, build an Asian Baseball Training Center, and add more scouts to Latin American and to their US scouting divisions.
I prefer to look at things over time rather than making knee jerk reactions to every word that’s uttered by Hank Steinbrenner or anybody else with the team.
If things go downhill, THEN criticize. So far, nothing has happened to this team that demonstates in ANY way its the 80′s again.
In fact, there is ample evidence to show its NOT the 80′s.
Gotta admit the River Ave. Blues guys have a point:
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/...../#comments
“The Real B,
Stop stealing my name.”
I posted here under B for months on and off. You stole mine, not the other way around, homeslice.
hmm
* “Hopefully, you go out and win, and when you win everybody’s happy,” Torre said. “I like to see smiles on people’s faces. I worked for Ted Turner and Anheuser Busch. Those people are used to winning. They get very impatient when they don’t, and I can understand that. I do, too.”
I’d much rather hear whatever from Hank/Hal than yet another in a long line of “prepared statements” from Howard Rubenstein.
That charade was getting ridiculous.
Howdy Folks,
I can’t believe how this saga has spun out of control like it has. I think that the reason Pete and others are a little taken back by Hank’s loquaciousness is based on the reluctance that Hank has shown for being a part of the management structure in the past. While I generally think that it is a good thing that the Yankees remain part of the Steinbrenner Consortium, it is rather curious that the brothers have stepped up so energetically in recent weeks. It is certainly within their rights to do so, but it is definitely out of character all things considered.
Pete may be a little over the top in his criticism of Hank, but Hank is indeed taking shots at Torre. For a guy who never wanted a part of running the Yankees he now seems to have an opinion on every little thing regarding the team. If he is smart, he will put aside the Steinbrenner family jealousy concerning the goodwill that the Torre enjoys in New York and quietly move on. There is plenty of unfinished business to deal with up to and including Mo, Posada, Alex, first base, rebuilding the bullpen and transitioning a new manager.
I also would not be too quick to write off the comparisons to the 80′s as these constant media battles are detrimental to the team’s ability to land free agents (and upset the clubhouse). Now, I am NOT saying that it has reached these levels yet, but you could foresee a chain of events that could lead to a similar environment. Some people bemoan Jeter for being a boring quote, but he has succeeded in New York (amongst many other reasons including phenomenal talent)because of this, not despite it.
There is room for middle ground here people.
I love the assorted nitwits like “Ed Whitson” who come on here every day to tell me I don’t know what I’m doing. Yet they come to this blog every day.
It’s also amusing how many of these clowns are the same people using different names (I can see IP addresses, fellas) and repeat their rants. Hey, whatever makes you happy.
All I can say is that I appreciate the traffic. Why you’re so preoccupied with me, I have no idea. But, sincerely, thanks for the comments. Every one helps. I could do a blog with just information and make it bland. I choose not to. Based on the number of readers, people seem to like it. If you don’t, sorry.
I think Joe Torre didn’t get treated well. I think a lot of Yankee fans have not the slightest clue how difficult that team is to manage with the huge egos in the clubhouse and in Tampa. Never mind the media and the fans.
But as I have written many times, I can understand why the Yankees wanted to make a change given the first-round exits. It’s just too bad they weren’t more honest about it. Joe was fired three times before. He can take it.
Anyway, enough of Joe Torre. Time to move forward no matter what stupid comments come out.
MurphyDog,
Your negative views on Randy is solely a function of Peter. You know this and so do I. You are a lazy, minion, controlled and manipulated by the mainstream media. Why? Because you ignore all the good Levine has done for the Yankees. A-Rod? Fair and balanced, not really. Peter forgets this to make his point. Ironic, that you forget this too.
Whether Peter has more contacts in baseball than God, is 100% irrelavant. Why? Because he is no longer using his contacts to report, he is making silly, negative, blanket statements that do not hold up to scrutiny. You don’t need to be pals with Reggie Jackson to see that and dispute them. i.e. “Hank and Hal should be quite a time”. Based on what? Firing a manager who was overpaid and failed. Ugh. Should have happened after 2004 when he choked our way to infimy.
This is the last time I’ll comment on the Torre deal:
I don’t have a problem with them wanting a change from Torre. I don’t have a problem with them offering a paycut (it’s their team, it’s their money, it’s their definition of success vs. failure). But I have a problem with them claiming to want Joe back, and were “stunned” that he turned it down, when they were absolutely unwilling to negotiate or even to hear what Joe would prefer. 6 WS and 12 consecutive PO appearances aside, that’s no way of treating a loyal employee of 12 years. And that’s no way of insulting the intelligence of Yankee fans.
Ed Whitson is clearly Randy Levine
Peter,
Let’s be honest. People come here because your connections through the paper get you accurate news first. They don’t come here for your opinions.
What’s the matter with him offering an opinion? If you want straight news, read the regular section of the sports.
Nice response Pete.
This blog has been, and is, relevant, timely, informative and reliable. It will continue to be my favorite through a long off season and what should be a very interesting 2008.
Keep up the good work.
B: “Peter,
Let’s be honest. People come here because your connections through the paper get you accurate news first. They don’t come here for your opinions.”
B, when you said “people”, who are you referring to? I’m a person and I like hearing Pete’s opinions. I don’t agree with him everytime, but I want to hear it. And his connection is precisely what makes his opinions interesting b/c it’s a different perspective that many of us don’t have access to.
Now I’m a lazy “minion”?
From Wikipedia:
Minion is a term for favourites or protégés, especially those of a monarch or prince at a royal court. Unlike a henchman or lackey, although of subordinate rank to his patron a minion is likely to be of noble birth or to be raised to the nobility, and is more of a companion and confidant to him than a servant or bodyguard.
EdWhitson: Thank You!
Drop the Torre comments. He’s already gone. Let’s move on now.
Pete,
Who said that Torre “had to get to the World Series”? Getting to the World Series would have maxed out his compensation and vest him in his option for 2009 — but he was still making a nice chunk of change and could have had his contract renewed for 2009. Yeah, we don’t want to be rehiring a manager year-to-year, but there was no telling whether Torre would have been offered a longer term deal next year.
You are correct that the whole thing turned into a public relations nightmare — but that is because (1) the Yankees came forward and announced the offer they made to Torre and his rejection of it in a very clumsy fashion and (2) the media’s love affair with Joe Torre led to unwarranted cries of outrage. As I have posted before, a pay cut to a sports celebrity that guarantees they are the highest paid in the field even though their performance has not been at the level anticipated and allows them the opportunity to make even more if certain goals are achieved is NOT insulting on its face.
Joe Torre found it insulting and rejected it. That is his right. I think he should have accepted it. What’s the phrase — “cutting your nose off to spite your face”
Dee, I agree with what B said.
Fine, then you two dd up to the “people” that B was referring to, unless you’re those guys sharing the same IP address like Pete said.
I like the blog for the updates, but lately, it’s become hard to read.
I understand that it’s a blog, so I’m not commenting about the posts. Rather, I’m commenting about what I perceive to be a bias against the new leaders of the team. This is problematic because it colors how things are reported to us, the audience. I understand that you (Pete) is a person and can get attached to other people (like Joe Torre). But if you keep this up, you will lose credibility in the things you write, not only on this site, but for the newspaper as well.
Joe Torre did some great things. But he didn’t do what the Yankees wanted him to do, which is lead them to WS titles. So they offered a lower contract. Teams and businesses do it all the time. He refused. It wasn’t a fairness issue. It was a pride issue. He said he was insulted by the incentives, and that he was being held to an impossible standard. However, it seems disingenuious to say “I deserve to be paid X, but I’m not responsible for whether we win or not.” Either you’re responsible, or you’re not. If you can’t deliver what is being asked, then you either take a lower amount, or decline the job. That’s all there is.
Both sides made their decisions. Taking snipes at the new ownership for what you deem to be an unjust treatment of a former manager may make you feel better, but it serves no other function. Please move on.
Chuck: Randy Levine said that, first thing he said in the call one week ago. And, once again, it was the length of the deal, not the money.
Matt: If my blog is so hard to read, I invite you not to read it. I have opinions and I’m going to express them here from time to time. I’m not some blind loyalist to the Yankees or a mouthpiece for the owners. Sorry, not how it works.
another ground breaking statement from one of the jerky boys, hank i believe. how nice to know my beloved yanks are being run by the 2 little steins(dumb&dumber) & the prince of darkness randy latrine.
This new regime is disgraceful. Someone needs to remind Hank that if Steve Swindal had kept it in his pants, he’d still be doing…well whatever it was he was doing when all we knew was that we thought George had a son or two. There was a reason he wasn’t the chosen one way back. He’s a newbie to the seen and someone needs to tell him to know his place rookie. He’s like the Pedroia of management. He hasn’t earned the respect to take shots at Torre or anyone else for that matter. And Levine. Please. I can’t even look at his fat ugly face. His first full season on the Yankees payroll was 2001. Coincidence? I think not. We finished a season that, maybe it didn’t end the way I wanted, but I was still proud of what WAS accomplished and having watched it play out. I resent the way they turned this past season into a failure when so much good happened.
Oh and stop taking shots at Peter and/or his Blog. If you don’t like it, leave. I’m a Yanks fan living in Toronto and I check Pete’s Blog several times a day and appreciate what he puts into it. Check a few other blogs. Days go by without updates. Petey is always on the job so don’t be so ungrateful.
I think Hank is a chip off the old block. As a matter of fact, I have always been a big fan of George. You see, the Yankee’s are not just a baseball team, they are a entertainment icon as well as a world-wide sports Icon. George is the conductor and now Hank will take the rains as well as the conductors stick. Hank said it best…..I pay them well to play this game and be a Yankee….If they dont want to take it and be a Yankee….Then, I dont want them here! Hopefully Cash and Hank will be smart…Trade Wang along with either hughes and kennedy (not both, just one) and get Santana. As well as Re-sign pettite. A rotation of Santana, Pettite, Hughes, Mussina, and Joba would be fantastic. You got 3 guys that can win you 15 plus games and another two that have possible 12-15 game pottention.