Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 27, 2007 
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The Yankees don’t plan to name a manager until after the World Series. Hank Steinbrenner is looking for a leader with a long-term future.
Hey Pete, when you posted those comments by Hank yestereday, you somehome managed to find this part irrelevant to the fans…
“It’s going to come down to who we think is the guy that can really be the best leader. Joe (Torre) was a great manager. Joe Torre was like a father figure to some of these guys,” Steinbrenner said. “We want a guy that can do that, but at the same time, because it’s going to be a younger guy, we want a guy that can be a real leader, which Joe (Torre) was as well. This guy has got to be a take charge, real leader. Not looking so much for a father figure now as a real leader.”
This just in – the Post joins Buster Olney and bets on Girardi
“Hank Steinbrenner may have tipped his hand earlier in the week when he talked about Mattingly being a quiet leader as a player. Steinbrenner’s words yesterday indicated the Yankees want something more than a quiet leader.”
http://tinyurl.com/ywahkp
Today’s Sports Pages
Sounds like Girardi to me! That’s what we need!
In your Journal Article you wrote that Hank took a jab at Torre with this comment: “It’s going to come down to who we think is the absolute best guy for the job, the guy that really can be the best leader,” he said. “Joe was a great manager … he was like a father figure to some of these guys. We want a guy who can do that, but at the same time, it’s going to be a younger guy, and we want a guy who’s going to be a real leader. This guy’s got to take charge and be a real leader. We’re not looking so much for a father figure now as a real leader.”
Funny that you left out THIS portion of the quote: “We want a guy that can do that, but at the same time, because it’s going to be a younger guy, we want a guy that can be a real leader, WHICH JOE (TORRE) WAS AS WELL.”
You lose all credibility in my eyes when you purposefully manipulate quotes as you do.
The team was owned and run by a rich arrogant jackass – now it’s run by an idiot
“What we’re looking for is a guy that’s maybe going to be one of the greatest managers, maybe of all-time, over a period of 10, 20 years,” he said. “Who knows? And it could be any of the three. I think all three of them have great capabilities, they really do.”
(Hank) Steinbrenner also took what could be perceived as a jab at Torre.
“It’s going to come down to who we think is the absolute best guy for the job, the guy that really can be the best leader,” he said. “Joe was a great manager … he was like a father figure to some of these guys. We want a guy who can do that, but at the same time, it’s going to be a younger guy, and we want a guy who’s going to be a real leader. This guy’s got to take charge and be a real leader. We’re not looking so much for a father figure now as a real leader.”
You can name every manger in history who managed successfully and met this set of requirments when he was hired
Go ahead name them
Bucky,
Lil’ Stein did take a jab, via failure of parallelism and through direct exclusion.
this is the quote, as reported by the Post:
“It’s going to come down to who we think is the guy that can really be the best leader. Joe (Torre) was a great manager. Joe Torre was a like a father figure to some of these guys,” Steinbrenner said. “We want a guy that can do that, but at the same time, because it’s going to be a younger guy, we want a guy that can be a real leader, which Joe (Torre) was as well. *This guy has got to be a take charge,* real leader. Not looking so much for a father figure now as a real leader.”
A) Stein went out of his way twice to label Torre was “a great manager” and “a real leader” but notice how Stein declined to identify Torre as a “take charge” guy.
B) Stein said Torre was a “father figure” and then minimized the need for that quality.
Lastly, like everyone else, Peter has editors; neither you or I know what his editors clipped out.
What’s with all the quotes this morning? Here’s one for you…”What the f#$@% are you talkin’ about?”- Tony Soprano
Thanks for the link Peter.
I don’t care who they choose at this point, I,m more interested in your last in Arod, who was mentioned briefly.
Finished the New Yorker piece on Boras and have to say he is nothing if not intriguing.
On one page, I’m thinking his ideas have some merit, then on the next page he seems contradictory.
Guess he is just doing his job. Though he seems to redfefine the job as he goes.
My lasting impression is that the ballplayers, AROD and Damon being the most oft referenced, are not really memmbers of any particular team.
They are merely professional Baseball players, have bat will travel, so to speak.
Almost seeming to work for Team Boras and not vice versa, with the mission of spreading the Boras vision.
Telling last line from the piece: Alex ENJOYED playing in NY.
Dr.Acula:
Since we are quoting, allow me to quote you: “Lil’ Stein did take a jab, via failure of parallelism and through direct exclusion.”
You are correct, sir!
from an old new york times article:
“Dave Righetti recalls that in mid-season 1986, the year he set a record with 46 saves, Hank Steinbrenner proposed that the Yankees’ ace reliever be immediately replaced by a career minor-leaguer who had just saved his first and only game in the majors. “
hank is a clone of the dolan retard. another son born on 3rd walking around like he hit a triple.
Hank Steinbrenner needs to leave baseball to the grownups. He really needs to go back to the stables and play with his horses, where he fits in…just like part of the horse.
well I think Tony Pena can be ruled out if they want a long-term future.
He IS leaving baseball to the grownups, or haven’t you been paying attention. Go ahead and hate on the guy if that’s what floats your boat. He’s a tempting new target for everyone in the media who’s been holding their fire against George Steinbrenner the last few years.
Sure he’s said some dumb things over the years. But I think he knows what he has in Brian Cashman, the farm system and the brand. He gets it. He wants to inaugurate a new era of sustained success and stability. Yea for him.
Bart, I agree the Steinbrenners lack style and are far from perfect, but perhaps you weren’t around when the team was owned by CBS. They at least try.
“Sure he’s said some dumb things over the years. ”
so come up with some smart things he’s said or done over the past 30 years.
try to get back to us today.
Every time he opens his mouth, he further alienates players he’s trying to sign. If he’s going for stability, he’d better learn what it means. For those that are championing Girardi’s cause, of which Hank Steinbrenner seems to be one, they’re not going to get it by hiring a manager who was fired after his first year for shooting his mouth off about the owner and GM that gave him his first job. Is he a good manager? Who knows? There are 5 young pitchers down in Florida that may question that idea.
How long will it take for Girardi to start telling Cashman how to do his job, or, to tell the owner to sit down and shut up? It only took 2 months with the GM and less than 4 months with his first job.
Now, you’ve also got a player for certain who has questions about Girardi’s attitude, and it’s a player that NY can’t afford to lose because there are no replacements available for him. Posada gets along with just about anybody, but, for him to publically state that he’s not real comfortable with Girardi, is pretty telling, because of an incident or series of them in 2005 between the two.
Any word on the Abreu rumours?
Is every body going to cry when Donnie Baseball doesn’t get the job. Boo Hoo, Boo Hoo. But he’s Donnie Baseball its his birth right to be the manager. Take the emotion out of it folks or the franchise is going to take a BIG step back. Donald Arthur Mattingly is not the right man for this job at this time. This is not about happy endings for a great player. Its about giving the team a manager that gives them the best chance to get back to the World Series. Hiring Mattingly may seem like a great thing the prodigal son comes home to lead the franchise, this ain’t the movies guys,Managers are hired and then 99% of the time they get fired. If Mattingly gets ahired ther is a very good chacne that someday he will never come back to old timers day.. why because he had to be fired. The happy endings people are hoping for with the hiring of DONALD ARTHUR MATTINGLY only happen in fairy tales. Players play Wht should the fans care if the players like the manager. Do you really think every player liked Torre ? Liking a manager leads to complacency, which this team has shown in the past. It needs to hear a new message from a new voice. Joe Girardi is the man for the job. Its not even close. Remember, I said to take emotion out of it.
One other thing if they really want to get the team going in the right direction then not only Torre should be gone, Guidry should go along with Mattingly and any other coach thats been there, Guidry and Mattingly have had a role in the teams ability not to make it to the next level. What makes you think that someone that has contriuted to the demise of the “Greatest Franchise in Professional Sports” shuld be allowed to try and right the ship. And it is a demise because the ownership ahs said that just making the playoffs is not good enough..Oh wait they have also said that the we have to be patient with the new manager, that this will be a team in transition… My crystal ball sees Torre and A-Rod in Dodger uniforms OUCH
If they really want to get the team going in the right direction then not only Torre should be gone, Guidry should go along with Mattingly and any other coach thats been there, Guidry and Mattingly have had a role in the teams ability not to make it to the next level. What makes you think that someone that has contriuted to the demise of the “Greatest Franchise in Professional Sports” shuld be allowed to try and right the ship. And it is a demise because the ownership ahs said that just making the playoffs is not good enough..Oh wait they have also said that the we have to be patient with the new manager, that this will be a team in transition… My crystal ball sees Torre and A-Rod in Dodger uniforms OUCH
Joel – I read that this morning in my paper, I automatically thought that means Donnie is out, and Joe G is in.
these technical difficulties are hoding back the blog. the success of the blog is probably overwhelming the systen set up for it. sounds like the yankees.
This is a very good Yankee blog, many knowledgeable members. I’ve found There are very few good Yankee blogs available compared to some Red Sox I have seen particularly the one on Boston.com. Build it and they will come.
From the New York Times:
* The identity of the new manager, Steinbrenner said, would be decided by *Monday,* with an announcement coming *Tuesday* if Commissioner Bud Selig allows it during an off-day between a possible fifth and sixth game of the World Series.
Buster Olney says he would “bet his life” on G-Man getting the job.
Check back in a half an hour, I’ve got video on this and the ARod derby.
I tell ya, we’re like Marilyn Monroe, rain or shine, we’re always in da paper.
I am not convinced that Hank’s statements have given any indication of who is Torre’s successor – Mattingly or Girardi. I do feel, however, that it does imply that Pena is out – perhaps they are negotiating a role as bench coach or another coaching role.
As I said before, any of the 3 choices would be fine with me – they are all capable with the talent that the Yankees will field.
Just a thought about Joe Girardi…Yes, he has a brilliant analytical baseball mind… but that in itself has never been the formula for success with any MLB team, much less the high profile Yankees. Buck Showalter was one of the brightest managers in baseball, but it has never really led to huge success with NY, Arizona, or Texas. Joe G. had a wonderful record with low-budget Florida, but as I recall, he was at odds with GM and ownership from the beginning because he wanted more veterans instead of the youth that guided the Team to a successful season.
Before I forget…DR. ACULA:
Your photos from yesterday’s Posts were Awesome!
Thank you for sharing.
You truly ARE “The Maharesi of Media Minutae”!
And here I thought that Lil Stein just wanted those extra days so he could finish up that two day seminar down at the Miami Hilton on “How to Be a Successful Manager”
Take it for what it is worth. Read on another board that sports center said that the Yankees will announce the new manager on Tuesday.
I guess ESPN is predicting a Bosox sweep..
Jennifer!
you must keep up
Only Girardi has demonstrated an actual ability to lead. With Mattingly it’s all hypothetical.
Jen-
how’s da rain?
Tuesday is an off day.
“Only Girardi has demonstrated an actual ability to lead.”
Whoa:
Did ya ever see Mattingly play in the 80s and 90s?
Cashman is going to decide who is the best candidate between Mattingly and Girardi. I have no issue with his judgment.
If Mattingly does not get it and decides to severe ties with Yankees (it is just speculation on the part of media and some on this blog) that is his prerogative. He is not entitled to be the manager by default, especially if there is a better candidate in the eyes of the baseball people in Yankee organization.
If reports are correct, Mo is close to signing. That is good news.
Regarding Posada, it is all posturing. If reprots are correct Yanks will offer three years, $40mil. That is very fair. If he wants to be greedy and go somewhare else, so be it. Please, don’t say it is due to new manager. Any team which gives deal of 4 years for a 36 year old catcher will regret it in two year. See what is happening with Damon. How do Red Sox look now for not budging to Damon demands?
Regarding A-Rod, let us see what happens. If Girardi is the manager and he does not like it, so be it and let him walk. If he goes to Angels, what about Mike Scoscia? He is not a hands on manager?
Media: If you look at all the articles from all the area news papers, majority feel Girardi is a good choice. Even many of those who prefer Mattingly are not against the Girardi.
Girardi is a better candidate for the manager. If the reports are correct, he will be a hot candidate for other jobs if Yanks do not select him. What about Mattingly, he is not a candidate for any job. That should tell something about these two candidates. Please, don’t argue that he will only manage Yankees.
Just a test… It keeps giving me errors.
It is pouring!! I have a load of errands that need to get done but don’t want to go out in it.
“Did ya ever see Mattingly play in the 80s and 90s?”
I saw Horace Clark play, so yeah dude, I saw him play.
What exactly did Mattingly lead them to?
I’m sure Donnie is a good leader and will get the job done if chosen. However, we cannot assume that because he was a great player and leader on the field that he will be a great coach. In fact, more often than not, great players do not become great or even good coaches. I’m NOT saying this is the case with Donnie, but we can’t assume that his greatness will make him a good manager.
No dog in this fight for me; I feel good about all three guys. But some crazy NY Post editorial writer (quoted in the NYT) says beware the Curse of Donnie Baseball…..
http://opinionator.blogs.nytim.....ef=opinion
The baseball people under the leadership of Cashman are going to decide who is the best candidate between Mattingly and Girardi. I have no issue with Cashman’s judgment.
If Mattingly does not get it and decides to severe ties with Yankees (it is just speculation on the part of media and some on this blog) that is his prerogative. He is not entitled to be the manager by default, especially if there is a better candidate in the eyes of the baseball people in Yankee organization.
If reports are correct, Mo is close to signing. That is good news.
Regarding Posada, it is all posturing. If reprots are correct Yanks will offer three years, $40mil. That is very fair. If he wants to be greedy and go somewhare else, so be it. Please, don’t say it is due to new manager. Any team which gives deal of 4 years for a 36 year old catcher will regret it in two year. See what is happening with Damon. How do Red Sox look now for not budging to Damon demands?
Regarding A-Rod, let us see what happens. If Girardi is the manager and he does not like it, so be it and let him walk. If he goes to Angels, what about Mike Scoscia? He is not a hands on manager?
Media: If you look at all the articles from all the area news papers, majority feel Girardi is a good choice. Even many of those who prefer Mattingly are not against the Girardi.
Girardi is a better candidate for the manager. If the reports are correct, he will be a hot candidate for other jobs if Yanks do not select him. What about Mattingly, he is not a candidate for any job. That should tell something about these two candidates. Please, don’t argue that he will only manage Yankees.
A new manager, perhaps, by Tuesday; plus, who’s the favorite, and more on Boras and ARod.
http://tinyurl.com/2zy36b
Clip runs 6:46
Whoa, I don’t usually read much of Joel Sherman’s articles, but, read this interview he did with Mike Gallego.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....s_up_d.htm
Maybe this will tell you something about Mattingly’s drive and his will to win.
Well said BBfan. All the media is making it out like it is Donnie’s birth right to be manager. Tell me why he would make a better manager than Joe. Than maybe i’ll change my mind. I don’t just want to hear we can’t get rid of Joe T and Donnie the same week.
I think most fans wanted Joe T gone after 2003 (for using Jeff Weaver), 2004 (well we know what happened there, 2005, and finally 2006. So for the media to make it out like Yankee fans are all broken up over Joe T being gone it is just inaccurate.
I read it, GB7, but I believe that any leadership a player evinces is different than that what is required of a manager.
If Mattingly wants to demonstrate that he can lead as a manager, he should go to AAA and prove it.
Video Clip
http://tinyurl.com/2zy36b
A manager by Tuesday; the favorite, and more on ARod.
Sorry for the double post.
I am having difficulties with the blog with lot of errors.
BB Fan,
You make some good points. You’d think that if Donnie doesn’t get the job it’s because they feel that Joe or Tony is more qualified. Knowing that it’s Donnie’s dream to manage you’d hope that he doesn’t give up on it. This is not a one and done. Everyone here seems to think it’s insulting to manage in the minors, so maybe they’d offer Donnie a position in the front office or in player development. I’ve mentioned before that I think it’s admirable that Girardi and Randolph went out to other places and got the experience (presumably because they knew it’d be a looong time before Torre was gone).
BTW, what are the relative ages of all the principles? Hank’s 50. What about Torre, Mattingly, Pena, Girardi, Randolph, Cashman?
Whoa, I don’t usually read much of Joel Sherman’s articles, but, read this interview he did with Mike Gallego.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....es/gallego‘s_experience_sums_up_d.htm
Maybe this will tell you something about Mattingly’s drive and his will to win.
Whoa, exactly how much experience did Girardi have when he was given the Florida job last year? 3 less years of coaching experience.
There is a big difference between your first job being for the Fla Marlins and the NY Yankees.
A new manager by tuesday; the leading contender; an ARod update
http://snipurl.com/1sskd
segment runs 6:46
“whoa, exactly how much experience did Girardi have when he was given the Florida job last year? 3 less years of coaching experience.”
Isn’t that the point, though? Hiring Girardi was a risk, one that it was OK for the low budget Marlins to take, but not one that the NY Yankees, the most prestigious team in sports, should take.
Guidry was hired as a pitching coach because of what he did as a player. Mattingly would be hired for the same reason. That’s an incredibly dumb way to do business.
It also seems that the same people who wanted Torre to remain as manager want Mattingly. One of the main reasons they cited in support of Torre is that he won rings, yet Mattingly has no experience with winning rings.
Now, I don’t think a manager plays a very big role in winning rings, their contribution is at the margins, but if it’s a plus for Torre, it’s a minus for Mattingly.
Whoa, there was nothing wrong with Guidry as the pitching coach. That complaint is as baseless as the same one that was used about Stottlemyre for years. Another fallacy is that former catchers make the best managers “because they were on field managers and could handle pitchers”. That’s hogwash, too. Of the top 100 winning managers, only 9 were catchers.
Does the use of all three of a person’s names prove the speaker or writer to me more knowledgeable than others? If I say Donald Arthur Mattingly instead of, say, Don Mattingly, does that make me a bigger fan? Just wondering. I personally don’t need to hear a person’s middle name all the freaking time. Oooooh! You know their middle name! You can read the back of a baseball card! Maybe YOU should manage the Yankees!!!
Wow, Girardi did what he did with the Marlins with only 1 year of coaching experience? Sounds like he was born to manage. lol.
Seriously, there was a post article talking about how it was Girardi that started keeping meticulous notes during games. He compiled stats and info that Torre relied heavily on. In fact, that task eventually went to Torre’s special assistant (the name escapes me, Jason?) that he thanked in his press conference last week. That’s the kind of thing that Girardi brings to the park.
Hopefully, whoever the new manager is, they’ll reinforce the basics, motivate the guys, and bring passion for the game. Oh yeah, and babysit those million dollar babies…and win the World Series.
I trust Cashman to make the right decision(& hopefully hire Girardi)
Lay off the new owner kids. Who cares what they SAY as long as they are smart enough to let Cashman & the player development people decide on the baseball issues & how best to spend the owners $.
I can’t imagine that if Donnie is told to go manage AA or AAA & get experience & pay his dues that he will feel “insulted” and leave the organization forever, but if he does, who cares. Give me a knowlegable take charge catcher over a quiet star player any day of the week.
FWIW in reading this & other blogs over the past week my impression is that we “bloggers” favor Joe G. over Donnie
by about a 65 to 35%. I think if the owners think for goodwill,PR, or Torre fallout purposes that hiring Donnie is the way to go then they are severely underestimating and misreading their fans. We want to WIN more than we want to HONOR our past stars. Girardi has impressed the heck out of me hearing him on the telecasts this year, & a little edge in the dugout might be just what the Dr. ordered. Go Yanks.
Tuscon Ken,
Someone (stupidly) called out Pete for making derisive comments about the Little Steins & Levine saying the Yankees should ban him and the Journal.
To which Pete replied that the Yankees have people who read everything about the Yankees, including this blog. Make yourself heard!
Tucson, if Girardi gets the managing job, let’s hope he doesn’t leave a trail of damaged pitchers that he left behind in Florida.
“‘from an old new york times article:”Dave Righetti recalls that in mid-season 1986, the year he set a record with 46 saves, Hank Steinbrenner proposed that the Yankees’ ace reliever be immediately replaced by a career minor-leaguer who had just saved his first and only game in the majors. “‘”
If you knew anything about baseball, you would know that making Righetti a reliever was an incredibly stupid move.
I love the Yankees…….hate the Hankees
GB7,
Evidently, you live in world where baseless opinions are an adequate substitute for facts. They aren’t.
Guidry isn’t a technician. He doesn’t break down film to find mechanical flaws. He doesn’t understand kinesiology.
If you did any research, you would know that Mel helped ruin Gooden’s career by getting him to pitch to contact instead of doing what he did best, K people. He has done that to other pitchers as well.
Stick to facts. They’re testable.
But you can’t, so you resort to nonsensical labels of other people’s fact based posts.
If the Yankees think there will be some negative PR fallout if they don’t hire Mattingly they are making a miscalculation. Yankee fans want the best manager and that man is Girardi.
This isn’t about PR it’s about the future direction of the team.
“If the Yankees think there will be some negative PR fallout if they don’t hire Mattingly they are making a miscalculation. Yankee fans want the best manager and that man is Girardi.”
Simple and succinct. Props.
Whoa -
I thought Gooden ruined his career by his extracurricular activities.
Dr.Acula -
Again, thanks for the clip (Olney). If ARod turns down that offer, then he just doesn’t want to be here. I can’t see anyone else being able to (or willing to) match that. The fact that it would surpass Jeter’s and Clemens’s salaries should appeal to the ego (ARod’s or Boras’s – I’m not sure who’s really counts here).
Personally, I can’t wait until “Name That Manager” is finally done. All this back-and-forth is making me dizzy. Now, wouldn’t it be a total surprise to everyone if it’s Bachelor #3??????
Hey, did you all see this article?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....NHeadlines
“I saw Horace Clark play, so yeah dude, I saw him play.
What exactly did Mattingly lead them to?”
Very thoughtful statement, whoa. We’re talking about Mattingly’s leadership skills, not what he led the Yankees to as a player. Mattingly has obviously shown enough leadership skills and baseball acumen to be named as a hitting coach and a bench coach for the most successful organization in sports history, while Hoss Clarke went on to a long and distinguished career with the Virgin Island’s Dept. of Recreation!
Has this already been posted?
In today’s NYTimes magazine, there’s a little blurb on which Yankees is most likely to leave the team next year. They had a picture of Jorge, and said something along the line of the 36-year-old catcher is too old for the team’s current youth movement.
I completely disagree, I think Jorge is not going anywhere for 5 reasons:
1. He’s the heart of the team
2. He just had one of his best season and in his best shape at 36
3. There are no one nearly as good in the FA market, available for trade or in our farm system, young or old
4. They can’t let him and Mo go after the Torre debacle
5. Didn’t we already hear that Yanks has a $40-44mill contract on the table for him?
Are these NYT writers living in a cave? I’m a bit emotional right now, I love Mo and Jorge they can’t leave, at least not yet.
Confirmed: Hillary Clinton will be the next manager of the New York Yankees.
Rebecca, you ever been to Columbus bakery in Syracuse? Best bread ever.
Yankees set to offer arod record extension. 5 years, $150 million
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3082251
Dee–It’s just rumor mill.
A lot of people, I think, would be really upset if Po and Mo left, and I think the Yankees will do everything in their power to keep them.
ItalianGreco–I have not! Where is it? I love bakeries so I will have to pay it a visit!
Dee:
Nobody will have the resources or incentive to outbid the Yankees for Jorge and Mo. Minaya and the Mets may offer something close, but they won’t get it done.
yah just spotted that article on ESPN..
Interesting..
Whoa, I’d think that Gooden’s coke problems had more to do with his decline than Mel Stottlemyre. As for Guidry not using film, do you know this as fact? How many pitchers or pitching coaches have degrees in kinesiology besides Mike Marshall. Not exactly what makes you think you know so much more than me or anybody else, but, that does seem to be your habit. That and you have a need to try to insult everyone. That’s not a healthy attitude.
So that extension.. Does that count as hip opting out? Do we lose that money from Texas?
Not sure on the road it is on. I have lots of relitives in SYR. Look it up, I’m sure you can find it. I will say this their bread is amazing. Go to Thanos, an Italin deli, which is rigt next to it and get some cappacola with the columbus bread. You won’t be disappointed….Anyway, A-ROD will re-sign, no doubt about it.
Thanks for the Olney piece Dr. Acula, you are the man!
If Girardi is the guy they select, I wonder if the powers that be are trying to come up with another position for Mattingly within the organization (not anything on the bench). Not sure what exactly that would be, since it could be perceived that he’s still manager-in-waiting should Joe G not live up their expectations.
“If you knew anything about baseball, you would know that making Righetti a reliever was an incredibly stupid move.”
the times article said, “Dave Righetti recalls that in mid-season 1986, the year he set a record with 46 saves, Hank Steinbrenner proposed that the Yankees’ ace reliever be immediately replaced by a career minor-leaguer who had just saved his first and only game in the majors. �
setting a record of 46 saves was an incredibly stupid move? righetti himself was poking fun at hank steinbrenner.
i notice you like to challenge peple you don’t agree with. you like to use the words,”dumb”, “stupid”, and “nonsensical” when you disgree with other commenters who have opinions different than you. so you imply know about baseball? tell us all what you have done in the game.
DMan:
That’s the incentive for the Yankees offering ARod an extension – he honors the final 3 years of his original Ranger deal and the Yankees get the $21.9 Million contributed by Texas.
From the Does Buster Olney even believe what he says file:
In the video Olney says 7 years $200 M for A-Rod and in the article Olney says 5 years, $150M.
Does anyone know: if A-Rod takes the extension and doesn’t opt out, how does that impact the provision in the current contract that he gets a $5M raise or $1M more than the highest paid player for the 2009 and 2010 seasons tha was talked about during the summer?
Something interesting I saw in his contract.
* club may offer salary arbitration if Rodriguez voids contract 2007-09, but club may not offer salary arbitration after 2010
So if he leaves we get how many draft picks? I say if he opts out don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Offer him arbitration.
Pat, the terms would stand, as long as the this comes in as a 5 year extention.
if pena becomes the bench coach, the yankees could do worse than go to graig nettles for the first base coach job. he’s obviously a good fielding coach (he helped arod make the switch to third ), he’s tough as nails and edgy in a quiet way, and he’s a smart guy. he was also a yankee captain who would help pass along the yankee winning tradition he was part of.
an added bonus is that red sox fans still hate him because of body slamming bill lee during a major yankee/red sox brawl.
Agreed randy l.
Nettles would be a fine choice for a Yankees coaching position.
KC Royals fans would love him too – for his many wars with Mr. Pine Tar!
Would Nettles like to come back on a full time basis? I know he participates alot doing events for the team, and being in spring training. But that is a whole lot different than becoming a full time coach and dedicating yourself to the team.
Regarding Posada, why do people think that another club, especially Mets, will offer a four year contract? After their experience with Delgado’s production last year, you think they are stupid enough to do that into the 40th year of a catcher? Come on…
Yanks will stay firm with three years (I think 3rd year is a gamble), Posada will not get any thing close from other clubs and he will sign with Yanks.
Now, let us look at Posada’s value realistically. How many WSs did Yanks win with this offense oriented catcher? ONE. During Joe Torre era, who was the catcher for the other three (first three) WSs. None other than Joe Girardi. He was not an offensive catcher, but a great defensive catcher. So, my take is we want Posada back, but if he walks so be it. Let us go with a defensive catcher. Yanks problem is not offense.
I’ve read that Posada is leary of Joe G being manager. Something steming back to 2005 when Joe was the bench coach. But not one article has explained what occured.
Hank, suffers from Open-mouth-in-go-foot-itis,it’s inherent in the Steinbrenner gene pool. At any given time the Steinbrenners can come down with a bad case of it.All they need to do is open their mouths. When they stop speaking out of both sides of their mouth,it clears up rather quickly.It’s not contagious!
BBFan:
No one suggested that the Mets would offer 4 years -especially at his age. But with the Randolph connection, the Mets’ dissatisfaction with LoDuca, Jorge’s leadership qualities,and the likelihood that Jorge’s numbers will stay very good in the inferior National League, they could make an interesting offer.
Also,If you lose ARod and then Posada – the Yankee offense could definitely be a concern in 2008!
It seems as though Cashman’s recommendation will swing a lot of weight with the Steinbrenners. I wonder who the people are that Cashman polled as to who they believe should be the next manager and why.
Was one of those people that Cashman polled be a very close friend of his and be named Joe Torre?
There are lot of concerns expressed here about some of the vetarans leaving, like Mo, Posada etc. Expressing concerns is Ok, as we all love them given what they did in the past. But, it is imporatnat to remember that they all were very well compensated for those contributions. They did not give any discounts to Yankees, including Jeter. So, now the team has no obligation to offer them more than what they are worth. Still, Yanks will make as good an offer as anybody the years they believe are reasonble given thier ages. If they still want to walk, there is no need to lose sleep over it.
The team is bigger than individuals.
Continuing the conversation of yesterday re the involvement of Stick Michael. I saw this quote in Buster Olneys report from Hank
“We’re going to pick whoever’s the best guy for right now, that’s the bottom line,” he said, according to the Times. “We’ve got the best baseball people. The Red Sox obviously have some good baseball people, as well, but we’ve got great baseball people, including some of the guys responsible for the team in the late ’90s, one of the greatest teams ever.
This makes me believe even more that Stick is VERY VERY much involved
lathamjoe-
i’m definitely concerned about the possibility of posada going to the mets. it’s bad luck that the mets want to upgrade at catcher. if nothing else their interest is going to raise the price. posada wouldn’t have to move his home, just go to a different stadium. it would not surprise me if it takes 50 million to keep him if a bidding war erupts between the mets and yanks.
posada would be a really good manager when his playing days are finished. i hope the yankees, whatever happens ,don’t burn any bridges wth him. the problem with not extending players is that they might have a great year. it happened with posada. he didn’t complain when the yankees said they wanted to wait. i hope the yankees are fine with paying the price for waiting.it was, afterall their choice.
Will it be the classy Donald Arthur Mattingly? The classy Joseph Elliott Girardi? Will it be the always classy Antonio Francisco Padilla Pena? Who will replace the ever-classy Joseph Paul Torre, brother of the oh-so-classy Frank Joseph Torre? Now that George Michael Steinbrenner III is spoon-fed and wearing diapers, what will his sons Harold Z. Steinbrenner and Henry G. Steinbrenner do? What will Brian (Oh, damn, I don’t know his middle name – am I still a fan)Cashman do? You can bet it will be CLASSY!!!
“Now, let us look at Posada’s value realistically. How many WSs did Yanks win with this offense oriented catcher? ONE. During Joe Torre era, who was the catcher for the other three (first three) WSs. None other than Joe Girardi.”
this isn’t really true. Posada became the primary catcher in 1998.
so the yankees won 3 titles with Posada.
Games Played:
1998 – Posada 111, Girardi 78
1999 – Posada 112, Girardi 65
“The team is bigger than individuals.”
that’s true, but how many individuals can you lose before the team is affected? if arod and posada leave the yankees would not be the same team offensively. not even close. even losing one of them ,the offense will not be the same.
BBF, your “facts” concerning Girardi being the catcher for NYY’s ’98-’99 titles aren’t exactly facts. Girardi played in less than half of the games those two years and had no more than 250 AB, while Posada played in over 100 with 350 AB in each. Not only that, but his fielding wasn’t as good as Posada’s.
Randy |,
Why do you believe they are all leaving?
Wait until things settle.
Yanks never said they do not want them.
In fact they stated that they want all of them back and make very good offers.
I all comes down to what is a fair offer. Players always think they deserve more than they are worth, especially towards the end thier careers. If there is a major gap, teams have no choice but to let them go.
Thanks Hmmm and GreenBeret7. I stand corrected about the stats of Girardi and Posada for 98-99.
The main point I am making is that a defensive catcher who calls a good game is much more important to the teams. If such a catcher has good offense too, that is great. Last year, Posada’s defense was spotty, and as he ages it can only get worse.
Do not get me wrong, I like posada and he will be valuable for the next two years. After that I am not so sure.
Doreen,
His decline started before he did nose.
BBF, that defensive catcher had better be perfect in throwing out runners, picking runners off and calling the perfect pitches to offset Posada’s huge offensive edge and good defense and game calling. It’ll never happen, especially since the only free agent catcher worth anything is Molina, and over a full season, he’s not going to match half of Posada’s offense. Not just a guess, but, he hasn’t yet. RBI high is 25 with 6 homers.
Supposedly Girardi made fun of Posada’s large ears. That’s what I’ve heard…
Will Alexander Emmanuel Rodriguez stay? What about Jorge Rafael Villeta Posada? And how about Mariano, cousin of the never-too-classy thieving Ruben Moreno Rivera? Will Bob Kelly Abreu be patrolling right field next year )That’s right, folks, isn’t Roberto, or even Robert!)? Where will Professor Kyle Lynn Farnsworth wind up? Hows about Michael Cole Mussina? Can his salary be moved? All this and more in the Journalists-Who-Use-Middle-Names-For-False-Dramatic-
Effect-And-Fans-Who-Do-It-To-Seem-In-The-Know Jersey Blog!!!
bbFan-
i hope the yankees sign all of them. cashman was a little too full of himself last winter and spring as he was adjusting to being in full control. it’s not so much what he did as how he did it. the heavy handed way he handled the bernie situation didn’t sit well with veteran players. he would have saved money by giving bernie a million dollar contract that teh yankees could have ate if they had to. it would have been cheaper tham rivera and posada saying in their minds that they would not let that happen to them. after seeing bernie dumped when he didn’t have a contract each will insist on having that third year so they will have the option of going out on their own terms. having a contract is what allows aging players to go out on their own terms. mussina is the perfect example. if he had no contract, he would not be a yankee next year. rivera and posada, if they would have seen cashman give bernie the benifit of the doubt and give him a million dollar contract, would have been more likely to take two years and trust cashman to take care of them in a similar way. when he played hearball with bernie, they knew that had to have it in writing in a three year contract. hardball goes both ways. cashman made a bad move . he bet against them having good years. it’s not the end of the world for the yankees to have to pay more now, but it’s a fact they will if they are going to keep them.
GreenBeret7,
I am not sold on Posada’s good/great defense if last year was an indication.
Having said that, he would be great for the next two years. The question is how many more years you tack on to just keep him. This is the tough decision Yanks will be faced with. If some other team is willing to offer 4 years at the same price, I believe Yanks will let him go and I would not blame Yanks for that.
Randy |,
Yanks did not owe Bernie any thing and they do not owe Mo and Posada any thing. They paid them generously over thier careers. Both Mo and Posada had contracts for 2007. The team is not obligated to extend before the contract is up. What if their perormance drops significantly? How many bashed Cash for the two year contract he gave to Mussina? We can not have it both ways.
Also, during the previous negotiations, neither Mo nor Posada gave any break to Yanks. Why do you think they would have if Cash negotiated with them during the spring training?
I want Girardi to be announced as Yankees manager already!!!
Just remember if Girardi is the man then the powers at be did the right thing and kept emotion out of it. There is no way “the baseball people could possibly not pick Girardi ot of the three. Remember keep emotion out of it
Remember if Girardi is the man then the powers at be did the right thing and kept emotion out of it. There is no way “the baseball people could possibly not pick Girardi ot of the three. Remember keep emotion out of it
posada is an interesting case because he should already be in decline if you go by conventional wisdom. maybe he’ll pull a carlton fisk and be good well into his fourties, how he’s made it until age 36 without ever being on the disabled list is beyond me. has any other full time catcher even done this? as soon as giambi comes off the books, it would open up the dh spot to rest him . and if that was all posada did, there’s no telling how good a hitter he’d be. it is very hard to project aging. who would have thought kenny lofton would have been playing so well this year at 40?
on a related note, what happens to posada’s asking price if arod opts out. i would think it goes up because the yankees then have to sign him. i think cashman would be wise to try to sign posada before the arod ten day window is over for opting out. all these signings are interrelated now. if someone leaves, then there is more pressure for the yankees to pay the next guy.
Duder– Do *not* insult Jersey.
I can handle trolls and abuse, but do NOT dis my state.
(she says, while admitting that yes, she did not learn how to pump her own gas until junior year…)
Yogi Berra was never on the DL from any of the data that I have.
“Not only that, but his fielding wasn’t as good as Posada’s.”
Posada has never been as good of a fielding catcher as Girardi…not even present day.
RE: Posada and Mariano
I never thought that the Red Sox would lose Damon and/or Pedro because of a four year offer. They were both clearly breaking down, and nursing either player through even three productive seasons seemed unlikely.
Having said that, I truly think that there would be a four year offer out there for Posada and Mariano, if they are interested. They will notice that the Yankee offer to ARod will take him into his 40s, and see no reason why the same standard shouldn’t be applied to them. Also, in the pecking order of baseball, closers are CHEAP. Position players and #3 starters all get more money than elite relievers. Why is that important? Because, in raw dollars (and with revenue sharing), Rivera becomes affordable for a lot of clubs. Wouldn’t Cleveland like to upgrade from Borwoski, for example?
In short, I truly believe that the current Yankee offers are below market, as absurd as that seems. The Damon/Pedro standard still exists, and serves as a touchstone, not a deterrent.
Another example – someone is going to give 41 year old, 85mph Schilling at least a two year deal. Do you really think the Yankees will be able to entice Posada or Mariano with three? That hasn’t been the recent pattern for quality players, especially those with an acceptable level of durability.
The Yankees may well re-sign both players, but not for 3 years/$40 million. Minyana has no catcher and Billy Wagner as a closer. He also rolls out the welcome mat for Hispanic players. After this year’s finish, the Mets may be lurking in the reeds.
Phil, you’d better check your numbers. Girardi was nothing special as a catcher.
Girardi is the better defensive catcher and calls a better game according to baseball experts, Yankee coaches, etc. No numbers to check.
But if you really want to check the numbers, go to baseball-reference.com and check out the passed balls, range factor, etc.
You’ll see Girardi was the superior defensive catcher while Posada was the better hitter during their time together.
I like Posada and want him resigned because he is the best option available but please, he is the worst catcher in letting passballs and not keeping the ball in the dirt in front of him. If you want a recent example go no further than the “midge game” and the two pass balls that allowed the runner to advance and then to score. He too bears responsbility for those, a good defensive would have one or both. He drives me insane allowing it to happen just too often. I know he is a converted 2nd baseman, and that he has improved his game over the years, but this is still his achilles heal.As BBan stated, He is predominently an offensive catcher, who btw has had a chronic problem problem running the bases, and getting picked off.
Girardi was a much better defensive catcher than Posada ever thought of being, nothing got by him, Posada tries to trap low balls into the dirt, rather than catch them, it’s a problem he’s always has always had. I cannot count the games against Tampa that a walk turns into a run because of pass balls. Posada is the best option out there but HE NOT a good defensive catcher as say Brad Ausmus.
thatwasme-
posada does get lazy somtimes behind the plate with his body . he does try to pick some balls he should instead block using his body , but he is still a decent defensive catcher. he’s no piazza in the sense of being a bad defensive catcher. he would still be a starting catcher if he he hit .240 with ten or twelve hrs and 55 rbis. he’s an all around catcher whose strong point is his hitting.
The accurate statement is they have actually won one WS championship (2000) with Posada as the full-time catcher, and lost two, 2001,2003. 96, 98, 99 he shared the duties with Girardi.
ausmus is really good. i wish the yankees would have gotten him back at some point.
Randy, I’m not impressed nor have I ever been impressed with Posada behind the plate, he has improved over the years. He just lets far too many pass balls at critical times.
I think that neither Varitek or Posada are great catchers, but good in an era where there are so few great ones. Pudge comes to mind as a great one, nothing gets by him. I thought Maurer had potential now he read he has an operation, I think for back problems.
Ausmus a very good defensive catcher.
i agree about the balls in the dirt, but overall i think he’s decent back there. i’ve always believed in having a catcher tandem where one catcher does things the other doesn’t. against most american league teams posada’s defense is adequate. when a dave roberts is on second and rivera is pitching i’d like to bring someone like ausmus . you can’t find a catcher who can do everything. the idea is to have two catchers that make a good team.
The 1961 team Blanchard, Howard and Berra all three were very good defensive catchers and that season all hit over 20 homeruns. That won’t be done for awhile.
I really like Molina and hope he is resigned.
and houk a former catcher was the manager too. you’ll appreciate that i had the good fortune to be a bullpen catcher for two years for clete boyer on a winter ball team around 1990-1991. nettles was on the team too. i only metion it because you’re old enough to appreciate someone like clete. but that experience is why i like posada. he’s a hardnosed catcher though i agree he does get a little to casual sometimes on ball in the dirt.
Clete Boyer, had a great glove although he never won the GG because of that guy over in Baltimore, Brook Robinson. I would Nettles to reurn as a coach.
Clete Boyer, had a great glove although he never won the GG because of that guy over in Baltimore, Brooks Robinson. I would Nettles to reurn as a coach.
clete was an amazing guy. kind of a quieter version of billy martin, but beneath the surface just as tough. clete was a real yankee . he passed on a lot to even the present team in his years as a yankee coach. he showed jeter a lot about fielding when jeter was young. on clete’s passing this year, jeter made note of it. clete and nettles got along well. you would not want to be on the wrong side of either.
I had the great honor to sit and talk baseball with the late great Clete Boyer. One day up in Cooperstown I ran into him at a card shop signing autograps. We talked about Mickey Mantle, I asked him, did Mickey drink as much as they say he did? Clete replied, more. Clete had just been back at the stadium for old timers day he was complaing about Ryne Duren chastising Clete for drinking too much beer, and in the same breath Clete complimented Booby Richardson for offer his prayers. Clete spoke of how in Jeter’s first year in pro ball he made 56 errors. What did the Yankees do? They brought Clete to spring training to teach Jeter how to throw the ball to the first baseman, Clete spoke of how Wade Boggs had never won a Gold Glove until he came to the Yankees, why was that beacuse he Clete worked with him. We sat on a bench outside of this card shop and talked for over an hour, people passed and most did not realize who he was. It was a day that I will never forget. When he excused himself to go back in, he thanked me for my time. That day was one of the highlights of my life as a baseball fan.
vikingcoach-
what a great story. that was the clete i know. i remember seeing him in the clubhouse at mckechnie field giving money to the clubhouse kid who was just a street kid to go over to a place called popi’s to get breakfast before games because the kid looked hungry. that was clete. i didn’t know that about boggs.
that’s one more reason to keep as many real yankee alumni around. the passing on of the torch should not be underestimated.
In a weird way the Red Sox lost their mystique as soon as they won that World Series in 2004. Now they might as well be the Florida Marlins winning the world series. Obviously they have more history, but I really it’s big deal shrug. What would this be 7? That’s cute.
Great story Vikingcoach, Thanks for sharing it.