Yankees still in good shape moving forward
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 29, 2007 
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At this time last year, Joba Chamberlain was playing winter ball in Hawaii. Most Yankee fans knew him only as a name on a list of drafted players. He wasn’t even invited to spring training.
The same was true of Ian Kennedy. Shelley Duncan? Big kid, big swing, no chance. That was the book on him.
The point is that things change quickly. The Yankees have invested a ton of money in amateur players in recent seasons. They drafted a big switch-hitting third baseman of Texas last June named Brad Suttle and gave him $1.3 million to sign. He’s in Hawaii now learning the pro game.
The Yankees aren’t going to blow things up because their egocentric third baseman opted out. They still have Jeter, Abreu, Cano, Cabrera, Damon, Matsui and four good young starters in Wang, Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy.
One door closes, another one opens. Brad Suttle probably wondered what position he would be switching to. Now he can has an opportunity.
The Yankees will offer Rodriguez arbitration, he’ll refuse and they’ll get a couple of draft picks for him. They’ll add two extra kids next June and the process will continue.
———————–
Robbie Cano did a radio show today. He found out that A-Rod opted out from one of this friends. Alex didn’t even call a teammate he claimed to care so much about. Class guy.
A-Rod is such a scumbag. I think he could be compared to a unclassy hooker whose loyalty rests where the money is.
Well said Pete, Yankees youth is plenty to look forward too.
say whatever you want to about exactly how A-Rod disclosed his intent to opt out, but he simply had ZERO desire to stay in NY. This much is evident. Boras had a plan in place via behind-the-scenes negotiations somewhere. That somewhere will be realized soon enough.
The Yankees are fine. By and large, our offense still has a lot of oomph. We’ll have to find a source of right-handed power, but ultimately, we are just fine.
How do any of you feel about Soriano now? Would you have rather had him the past four years? He helped us to World Series appearances in 2001 and 2003…more than we can say for A-$$$.
Uhm,
“They still have Jeter, Abreu, Cano, Cabrera, Damon, Matsui”
Jeter: Great!
Abreau: Slow Slow Slow starter, not so great
Cano: Young and Great
Cabrera: Great Defense, Horrible at the plate
Damon: If he is not hurt
Matsui: Forget about it, awful since wrist injury
That doesn’t make me very comfortable.
This is where you lose me Pete.
The nerve of you posting logic on your own blog.
Its so much more enjoyable to read the “2008 is over”, “The 80′s are back” posts.
Its laughable to me to read the emotional nonsense of some on this blog.
The Yankees have more good going for them than bad heading into 2008.
Most teams would kill to have the young pitching the Yankees have (with more on the way) and they still have a “few” good players remaining on the roster.
Some of us have been hoping for this type of turnover for most of the season. Now, its come to pass.
I think change is good and change was needed with the Yankees. Now, its time to see how they remake the team. Ita about time.
Yanks may be “in good shape” but, frankly, it’s going to be tough to win their division. There is no possible way to view A-Rod’s departure as anything other than a bad blow to the team. He’s the best player in baseball, and the Yanks just lost him. Bad news.
Well Suttle has a chance to be something… But its doubtfull hes going to pull a Joba and show up after 1 season of ball in Hawaii..
Hes hitting .109 right now… He has 3 hits in 10 games..
He should get a lot better, but I doubt we see him for awhile.
http://firstinning.com/players/Bradley-Suttle-a/
will suttle be ready for next year?
If I see one more post about how Matsui is finished I think I’m going to scream.
Fact: Matsui’s OPS+ 2007 – 123
Fact: Matsui’s career OPS+ – 125
He broke his wrist in 2006 and still had a typical Matsui year. If he’s completely healthy next year I would expect another typical Matsui year.
Please stop the nonsense.
dirtbag
I would have liked to keep alex, but if he didn’t want to be a Yankee, then whatever. I am fairly optimistic about our three new young pitchers and Wang. If Andy comes back too, the rotation looks to be fairly good (on paper anyways) Good pitching beats good hitting doesn’t it? As for third base, if the Red Sox resign Lowell (and they really should), A-rod’s options are pretty much the Angels, Dodgers, Giants, and Mets. Hm, I can’t see them giving him 30 or 40 or 50 or 100 gazillion a year or whatever the heck he’s going for.
I’m more concerned about the bullpen than offense.
You have to love the fact that this has turned into a PR nightmare for A-Rod/Boras. Way to prove that you think you’re bigger than the game. Not only did he alienate the Yanks and Red Sox in one felt swoop (a very rare accomplishment — maybe that can be his legacy), but he may have scared off some of the few other heavy hitters that can afford him. He’ll get his money from someone, but like Peter Gammons said, let the buyer beware.
Let’s all not forget that Son of Satan Boras will try with all his might and power to drive up the price of A-Rod by insisting that the Yankees are just posturing by saying good-bye to A-Rod. If the Yankees see A-Rod headed to Boston, I would NOT be surprised if the Yankees ate crow and offered him a HUGE deal to stay in NY. ( and I don’t think that Pete would disagree )
After what he pulled last night, the Sox won’t touch him. It could spark a mutiny in that clubhouse.
SJ44,
I dig what you say about starting anew. I think it has been a long time coming.
Question for all: I know we all want the team to win it every year, but what would you rather have: two or three ‘down’ rebuilding years that lead to 5 or 6 years of SERIOUS contention for a title, or 9 straight years of re-tooling that all lead in ALDS or ALCS losses? I’ll take the former.
This is an exciting time for the Yankees, all kinds of possibilities are present and all kinds of money is available for use (instead of $30 million to a perennial choker in the playoffs).
What about that other Duncan? Eric? Is he someone that can be looked at at all anymore, for 3rd base?
SJ44 –
You’re a calming influence right now. I keep waivering back and forth between queasy about all the changes, glad that there’s all the young pitching on the horizon, and a chance for a change in game strategy. I also waiver between the loss of ARod’s production being a huge blow that will be difficult to recover from and the relief of not having the drama he brings to the team.
The Yankees are not destitute and they are not going to sit back this winter and let everyone pass them by. But it’s not going to be easy and I’m not sure I’m ready for any more surprises!!!!!
Kind of like those “Cano is expendable posts during the year”?
Anywaym add a RH bat and this Yankee lineup should be fine. The improved pitching entering next year should deflect what we may or may not lack in offense with A-Rods departure.
it all falls on the shoulders and elbows of Joba and Hughes. This might work or they might be the next woods and prior.
Their health will make or break the yankees in 08
arod will not be back ever…..
SJ is right, the yanks will be fine and people saying that are not delusional…..
crede would be a good short term solution… the only drecks contract wise that are left are moose and giambi both 1 yr deals..
Damon has 2 yrs left on his contract and call me delusional I think he can still play……..
What about Eric(?) Duncan from Seton Hall Prep?
It seams like switching him to 1st base hurt him.
Is it too late for him to go back to 3rd?
That’s exactly the spirit we need here, Pete. Thanks a million for the post.
Now what happens if Alex accepts arbitration? Are we so sure he will decline.
Yeah real nice guy Alex is. Everything he did was phony!! It was only so he would look better.
Well, we should thank A-Rod for the extra draft picks — the Yankees have been aggressive with their drafts and have drafted smartly (Hughes, Joba and Kennedy were all drafted within the last four years). When a team spends as much as the Yanks do on their picks, giving them another first-rounder actually means something.
But… I have to say this… I know people are upset, but I think Pete and the fans need to back off of A-Rod. The announcement was horrible, the idea that he cares if Mo and Posada will re-sign was an insult, but why make this an A-Rod bash-a-thon? Just let this guy leave and go disrupt someone else’s team. I was watching the World Series last night and the info that he wasn’t coming back didn’t move me one way or another. Whatever, was basically my reaction.
It’s just a waste of time killing this guy all day long — he doesn’t care about fans (any fans), so we shouldn’t care about him.
Rick, let go of Eric Duncan, he didn’t pan out. Move on.
The Tigers have acquired SS Edgar Renteria from the Braves in exchange for RHP Jair Jurrjens and OF Gorkys Hernandez.
The Hot Stove has been turned on. Let’s go, Yanks. Make something happen.
How do Yanks replace A-Rod’s production? Who cares ,they scored more runs than anybody and where did it get them? If they can get replace some production and get better pitching especially in the pen they’ll be fine. Forget the numbers, A-Rod becomes way too human in October.
“If the Yankees see A-Rod headed to Boston, I would NOT be surprised if the Yankees ate crow and offered him a HUGE deal to stay in NY.”
the yankees should stay involved in the negotiations if for no other reason than for the fact that it drives the price up. if boston does get him , isn’t it to the yankees advantage that it’s for top dollar so it limits boston in the future.
there would have been no crow to eat if the yankees would not have issued the
opt out/goodbye ultimatum.
boras made the smart move in removing the hank/cashman toothless threat from the table. if you notice, there are no stories about arod being in a bad position right now.
the yankees could and should be still negotiating with arod.
well I think depending on how Suttle fairs in the minors, Crede is a great short term solution, who cares about back surgery, he should still be a great DEFENSive player, offensive, well the yankees still do have a pretty stacked lineup
Boras on ESPN says Scooter Squirrel is unhappy with the quality of peanuts and may opt-out for Chicago
OMFG Pete relax on the unclassy to Cano thing, they will speak about his decision but that comment of insight that’s just a low blow. I guarantee Alex & Robi will speak, I’m not happy about him choosing to opt. out but again I’m not going crazy about this either
Ignorning Mariano, Jorge, Andy P., and Abreu, what does the payroll look like for the Yankees next year compared to this past one? Any big contracts come off the books, other than A-Rod’s? (And how much were they paying him again, given Texas’s contribution?) I know Giambi and Pavano are still making their big bucks in ’08, but who’s coming off the books?
The Yankees top brass have come out and said ‘no, were not going to talk with him now’..
If they turn around and start talking to him, they lose a TON of creditability across the league.
I think the mean it. Hes done in NYC.
Boras will be on MKS at 5 today, lets see if he is as hard on him as he has in the runup.
Arod not telling Robbie just another punch in the stomache. he and Melky were his”pals” nice that he had to find o ut that way. Maybe he wanted to text him instead.
Also Michael kay has said a “friend” of Arod told him that the Yankees are Arod first choice lordy the guy doesnt get it he really does have a leash around his neck with Boras leading the way.
All Ihave to say is the Yankees better stick to their guns on this one. I dont want to see him in the Yanks area code
“Boras on ESPN says Scooter Squirrel is unhappy with the quality of peanuts and may opt-out for Chicago”
LMAO Doc
Brad Suttle?
I hope he’s the 2nd coming but let’s be real. Bubba Crosby had a better shot at being the opening day CF a few years ago than Brad Suttle has of sniffing the bigs next year.
Even if A rod excepts arbitration I believe yankees don’t have to accept the arbitrators award, i.e., it is non-binding arbitration. Could be wrong there though, wouldnt surprise me with the immense power of the MLBPA.
I don’t see the Red Sox in play here. If I ran the Yankees and they got in play, I would drive him to Boston and FORCE him to sign with the Red Sox.
If he thinks he had pressure in NY, Boston would be off the chain, pressure-wise, for Arod.
Whether you are an Arod fan or not, one thing we have seen in his 4 years in NY. When the pressure really builds, he struggles bigtime.
In the end, its all about the money. Boras has somebody out there who is going to give him big money. Good luck to both of them.
From the Yankees perspective, this is a breath of fresh air. As great a player as he is, its just too much. Too much drama, too much money, too much temperature taking, etc.
You put up with it, if winning WS follows. When it doesn’t, its REALLY easy to say goodbye.
They put up with Reggie’s crap because he won 2 WS. Alex? At this point, you wish him good luck and reload your team. Its not a coincidence he has played the game for 13 years and hasn’t been to a WS. Its not all his fault but, some of it is. Great players make their teams better. We really haven’t seen that with Alex anywhere he’s been.
Even this year. The greatest year (stat-wise) of his life and the team actually did worse than a year ago. Something for his next suitor to notice before turning their franchise over to him.
In the long run, we will look back at today and say this was the day that the Yankees became the Yankees again.
Folks talk about things going back to the 80′s again. Its BEEN the 80′s the last 3+ seasons. Too many high priced, older players, who can’t win in NY. Too many bad baseball decisions.
They are finally starting to make good baseball decisions again. Drawing the line with Arod was a good baseball decision. Now, they just have to continue with their plan and they will be fine.
Anybody predicting the death of the New York Yankees not only needs a history lesson, they need a lesson in baseball economics.
Sometimes, you need to take a step back to get ahead. They will be fine.
Great, now we’ll get a whole bunch of idiots expecting Brad Suttle to be the next big thing. He’s a contact hitting third baseman with limited power and is no way going to be ready with the next couple of years. He’s certainly not going to be replacing A-Rod.
here is something i dont understand about the media and fans in general when it comes to arod. most of them say things like jennifer just did – that arod just does things to make himself look better and to help his appearance. But is that really true? I mean has he ever come out looking good from one of these situations? maybe he just cares about the money and not his PR (because he never gets any that is good) or maybe he is just manipulated by boras or does he just get lousy PR advice (it still falls on him because he can reject that advice). its just weird how everyone says hes phony to improve his image but his image never ever improves.
Gayle, he’s going to speak to Robi & Melky I mean jesus way to read into a story
ARod is done in NY. It would be different if they went back and forth until the deadline, he opted out, and two days later they signed a contract.
The Yankees just started ‘building from within’ in earnest two years ago and now 3/5ths of the staff is a product of that. Let Cash and Oppenheimer do their thing. We’ll win one before Boston wins one again.
I concur with all here who feel positive about the Yankees general direction. One caveat would be that someone needs to find a way to muzzle Hankbrenner. Granted that Boras was going to lead his lost little superstar down this unfortunate path anyway. But why is Hank giving him rationale to abuse? That “transitional” comment weakened the Yanks’ negotiating position. It was nothing less than shockingly amatuerish. Yes, of course, if you want clarification you take your time and return phone calls. But again, the fact that Boras position is hokum doesn’t excuse giving him room for a glimmer of credibility. Perhaps the Yanks should announce immediately that the organization has no interest in Andruw Jones and further declare a 5 year moratorium on negotiating any new contracts with Scott Boras. Without Yankee money as a remote possibility he will be weakened if not marginalized, young players may hesitate to work with him and perhaps even a few current clients will fire him.
Eric Duncan has zero chance of being a contributor to the Yankees and even less chance of moving back to 3rd base. He was moved because he couldn’t field the position, not because the position was filled at the MLB level.
I completely disagree on negotiating with ARod any further. He isn’t coming back. The Yankees will have no credibility if they change position now, and it will be a huge distraction from the real business at hand, getting a 3rd baseman and some right handed pop. I am intrigued by Crede. Do we know his current health status? The 2006 Crede would be a more than adequate 3rd baseman and RH bat, assuming also that they resign Posada and that they find a home (1st base? Left field? DH? all of the above?) for Duncan.
SJ44, if you lived in LA, I’d invite you to dinner.
Thanks for keeping us all off the ledge. The day the “Yankees became the Yankees again” Love that!
SJ44-
You really need to start your own blog, you make many excellent concise points on the Yanks.
I just really hope the Yankees stick to their guns and don’t sign Alex. I don’t want him here now. Not after what he just did. HE proved he is bigger than the game. I’d much rather have Aaron Boone at third, than that piece of garbage.
Can someone confirm if Ian is correct about arbitration.
randy l:
“boras made the smart move in removing the hank/cashman toothless threat from the table. if you notice, there are no stories about arod being in a bad position right now.
the yankees could and should be still negotiating with arod.”
Actually Boras and Co. made a dumb move. Removing the Yankees from the equation means you have less teams with the financial wherewithal bidding on the services.
It was actually a very smart move by Cashman and Hank to tell A-Rod if he opts out the Yankees would be done with him. Why would A-Rod opt out if he really and truly wanted to remain a Yankee forever. And why should they still be negotiating with him? As the saying goes, a run saved is just as good as a run scored.
With better pitching the Yanks won’t need outrageous production out of whoever plays 3rd base. League average should suffice.
Sj is on fire with the pearls of wisdom….
I love the Boston dynasty comments and they develop there own(utter nonsense)… things change in sports in seconds….
the yanks should have alot more financial flexibility then they have in yrs…. if any of the abreu, pettitte, mariano, and jorge contracts do not happen they save even more $$..
those 4 guys = about $70 mill. going forward also if they left with arod then they reduce payroll about $76 mill this yr…that is a ton…..
“Its BEEN the 80’s the last 3+ seasons. Too many high priced, older players, who can’t win in NY.”
Exactly and up until this past year the minor leagues were just as depleted as in the 8os (any talent was traded away for the Ken Phelps of the world).
For the first time in many years we can look beyond “next season”.
SJ44,
Please do not stop! You are the voice of reason. Totally agree with everything you say.
Exciting times for sure.
I don’t see 2-3 down years for the Yankees. I really don’t.
A lot of good young pitching. A young, aggressive manager, and some interesting options on the trade market. You still have players like Jeter, Abreu, Matsui, Damon and Cano. Still pretty good players.
Its best to just sit back and watch the moves that are made in the off-season instead of predicting doom. Simply because there is still a lot of talent on this team. They just need to re-tool it in some spots.
Let’s face it. The all star at every position stuff hasn’t worked. Now, its time to build the team in a way they built the Dynasty Teams. From the pitchers mound out, instead of from the batting order in.
SJ-
can you imagine the dissension! Papi and Beckett flip out and demand new contracts, etc.
Im glad we dont have to rely on Arod in situations now. He didnt come through and we dont have to have some huge star on the team. Now Jeter is captain, no doubt about that. Nobody will question that. Team chemistry will improve. Cabrera will have a great season, Giambi will surprise us.
I’m SO READY to have AROD out of here. I felt differently last night, but like many things, a good night sleep has opened my eyes and cleared my head. Bring on 2008.
How Do , Pete I LOVE THE BLOG .
Please check on this I do Not think the Yankees will get Draft Picks . Can you check on this Please ???? I hope I’m Wrong .
VERY NICE !!!!!!!!!
SJ44-
I agree with a lot of your points, but I wouldn’t say it’s BEEN like the 80s. The Yankees
have been getting into the playoffs, and they’ve played a lot of exciting baseball (albeit certainly not in the post-season). The second half of this season was a lot of fun, much more than my memory of the 80s teams giving. There’s definitely a lot of room for things to get worse, so I’m not convinced they’re necessarily going to get better. A lot will depend on what they do in the offseason to fill in some holes, and whether their veterans come back in better shape than they seemed to this year, Jeter included.
I’ll repeat my earlier question: Are any big contracts coming off the books this year, other than A-Rod’s (and assuming the Big Three re-sign)?
It’s been the 80s for the Yankees again? Give me a break PLEASE!!
From 1981 to 1995, you NEVER made the playoffs!! You had LOSING seasons. You always buy your way into the playoffs now, and you hardly ever win less than 90 games. Your TV contract is so much bigger than anything close to any other team – it dominates WAY more than the 80s.
But, with any luck, you will start a new streak in 2008 to 2022 with no playoffs…
Or Bud Selig can show some guts and throw on a hard salary cap….
myrtlebeachfan – Giambi is garbage (STRAIGHT UP BASURA) and what Cabrera are you talking about Melky or Miguel because Miguel would cost 1/3 of the farm and when he’s 1yr from FA I doubt this is what they do.
Arod is a bum. all year every YES network interview, all he tells Kim jones is how he loves NY. loves the organization. cant imagine playing elsewhere!. yanks call to make an offer he says i wont even listen, im outta here.
he lost all credbility in my opinion as a person. just say i dont like it here, in the end of the day we would have respected him for being a man, and not a ….
all the super stars altogether still buy no ring,that means a change should be made,I think yankees finally realize it.
arod is gone, and no matter how you cut it, there is no way you replace arod, perhaps with Pujols. But those players arent replacable. Cashman knows that and im sure he has a plan B. Now its plan B. Its what Sj says, reload time. But to claim that if we plug x or y player at 3b he can replace arod, for what he is worth, arod’s *numbers* cant be replaced. But, its a team sport, we can find the production elsewhere. Its going to be a hard 08 (as the team is now) when you depend on young pitching, regardless on how good they might be. Young pitching breaks down, it does. Depends on how you look at things, it might be a fun winter for Cashman
brandon–
All I know is that if I was leaving the place I was working and my two “best friends” were there.People I had worked with and helped nuture and develop in some way. I would certainly let them find out from me rather than on some radio or tv report or from someone else. I am not reading too much into it at all I know if he was my friend i would be ticked off more than just a little
I hate the sux but Papi is a lass act. the guy could get paid more elsewhere but imagine this he said he is happy in boston so took less money.. imagine tht!!!qhat a fool!!!!!
to most of you he is a fool but to me he is smart it looks like he was pretty smart to me.
look at arod he will be going thru the nonsense pres conference for another team, promising love and contentment, and his desire to win, blah blah blah and it will be a show like normal but at the end of the day it is a show…
enjoy SF or the la angels of anaheim or whomever.. boston is not stupid enough or arrogant enough to sign arod…….
Brandon,
He’s talking about Melky. I guess some people still believe he’ll turn into a legit everyday player.
Marcos Vechionacci should be ready some time in 2009. He’ll be a good longterm fit at 3B for the Yanks. Just gotta get through 2008.
I don’t think lack of Offense was the 2007 Jankees biggest weakness.
Obviously A-Rod is the best player in baseball and losing him will hurt on both offense and defense. If we can find someone with a good glove, that should help lessen the impact on defense.
Perhaps the $28 million we would have spent on him this season would be better spent on..
Pitching?
Any good FAs out there?
Now Jeter is captain, no doubt about that. Nobody will question that. Team chemistry will improve.
—————-
What type of stupid comment is that ? What did he do for Torre when he was left hanging for 2 weeks, what prospect has he helped or worked extra minutes with. Jeter is about himself, I’ve been saying w/ him Captain is just a damn title.
I do hope that Pay-Rod signs with the Dodgers so I can drive up to Vero to boo him.
No Arod to the Tigers unless they get rid of Brandon Inge..
MLBRumors.com
Big news! The Tigers made an early strike to improve the shortstop position by acquiring Edgar Renteria for youngsters Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez.
The Tigers will owe Renteria roughly $6.3MM in ’08 and have a good chance of exercising his $11MM option for ’09. They’ve added a five-win shortstop in Renteria.
Hey, the Red Sox were second banana in the Al East for a long time. The fought through it, learned from each set-back, got incredibly lucky in ’04 and got over the hump.
The post-1996-2001 Yankees never got over the hump, they just got paid like they did.
Now the Yanks have to work to get back to the top perch – nothing wrong with that, it’s called a cycle. Luckily the Yankees have the resources to have a shorter cycle than most teams (look at the Pirates and Royals), and I look forward to them earning the top spot and winning the World series again.
I actually enjoy setting our sights on the Red Sox instead of all those years of watching them in our rear view mirror. Will make it all the sweeter when we do win.
And don’t discount the post-A-Rod effect – didn’t Seattle win the most games ever in a season after he left? (Yes, they lost the Yanks in the playoffs, but the point is, don’t count out 25 angry professionals with something to prove.)
This years FA class is horrible. There isn’t much out there outside of the OF position which we kinda have a logjam at right now.
Phil,
I doubt Vechionacci is ready in 2009. He has the tools, but at some point you need to see results and .266/.327/.366 at High A just isn’t going to cut it.
The move Boras/Arod made yesterday didn’t make Hank Steinbrenner or the Yankees look bad at all.
In fact, the opposite is true. They made themselves look VERY bad. It makes Arod look really bad. As if he is above the game. Even Peter Gammons, who is a HUGE Arod fan, ripped him up and down for upstaging the WS.
The talk across a lot of people in baseball today has been VERY negative toward this move. Not opting out. Doing it to upstage the WS. To me, its a bit of a window into his (professional) soul. To put it bluntly, its not in the long term best interests of the New York Yankees to have Arod on the team any longer.
I would add, if the Yankees hold this position (which I believe they will unless Arod and Boras decide to give the Yankees a HUGE hometown discount), it will endear them to many segments of the fan base.
This team is set up well for the future. A TON of money coming off the books in the next two years. More older players on the way out. A solid core of young talent, with a LOT more in the pipeline.
A FA class after next season that could be off the charts. Every agent in the game seeing the Yankees not only have a lot of money coming off the books, they have a LOT more coming in with the new stadium.
They also see a team with a soul and direction. Arod is not the most popular guy (among his peers) in the game. Fact is, I’m sure more than a few guys admire the Yankees stance with him.
More importantly, its showing that Brian Cashman has major stick in the organization. They are listening to their baseball people and the baseball people are calling the shots. That should be music to any Yankee fans ears.
Its a perfect storm of opportunity for the Yankees. Its a helluva lot better than it was. They just have to keep it up, make smart off-season moves, and position themselves well for 2008 and beyond. I think they are on the right track.
Jennifer –
No, he did not prove he is bigger than the game — no one’s bigger than the game. What he proved is that he THINKS he’s bigger than the game, or at least Scott Boras thinks he is bigger than the game.
Pete,
When is the official introduction of Joe Girardi as the new manager going to be?
Gayle – that’s understood but that’s not how Cano is taking this trust me Alex doesn’t plan on leaving Robi or Melky uninformed w/ the bond he created w/ them, Micheal Young and him are still friends, again I don’t like how we judged this part of the situation.
Everyone says the Red Sox won’t sign A-Rod because they have the World Series MVP at 3rd base. I’m with you there, but they have a mediocre Julio Lugo at shortstop. A-Rod could still conceivably go to Sox as their new premiere shortstop. Hey, if it means inflating their payroll and lessening their chances at a World Series, go for it. However, we do need to rethink the idea that he positively won’t, never ever be going to the Red Sox. It could still happen. In fact, I’m kind of hoping he does. Me being angry at Manny is getting old, it’s time to replace him with another schmoe.
Eric Duncan has yet to turn 23 (birthday in December). He may not be a Type A prospect anymore but I would not be surprised to see him have a solid first half next year. He’s shown decent plate discipline. Now he just needs to put it all together. Heck, he even has two or three more years to make it happen. Shelley Duncan made a positive contribution for the first time at age 27.
Tigers Fan-
What’s your thoughts on the Tigers bidding for AMerc?
Can Scott Brosius make a come back?
I’m thinkin Girardi lets it be known to the entire roster that it’s a new Ball Game and the Game is showing up to Spring Training IN Shape and ready to play as an absolute must in ’08, whether he does that with a letter, a personal phone call or in the media. Everybody arrives at training camp and they see a bunch of young guys willing to give a testicle to take a vets position. Now they can work on baseball and winning and not be in the trainers room all the time.
Boras may have painted himself into a corner and good for him, I don’t know anybody who would throw him a lifeline. I live near the SF Bay Area in CA and I can tell you the Giants will not be a likely bidder for arod, they’ve had their fill with Bonds, wanted to get rid of him 3 years ago but knew the media would make them a tender meal by slow roasting them. They want a TEAM, not a star. So do the Giants’ ball players. At the very least, they want a guy who will appear in the Team photo with them. Magowan is cheap besides.
I love Joe as much as most here but change is good.
The King is dead, long live the King.
Pete, where was Robbie’s radio interview? I’d love to know what he said. This could be a tough season for him if Bowa leaves and worse yet if they trade Melky. Girardi clearly thinks Cano is terrific from his broadcasts and Tony Pena would add some stability but Bowa, Cabrera, & Rodriguez seemed to be his real buddies. Although Girardi professed to like the work Bowa did with the players wouldn’t Girardi be allowed to bring in his own coaches? Jorge really likes Girardi’s old bench coach from the Marlins, who was previously the Yankees catching coach and is presently the Red Sox catching coach. I’ve just read so many disheartening reports such as Posada did not want Girardi managing, that Girardi is similar to Showalter and Rodriguez hated Showalter, and on and on. Well, if they’re willing to cut ties with Mattingly it shouldn’t surprise me that they’re cutting ties with Guidry – I’ve been a 30 yr. Guidry fan. Maybe they’ll all go with Joe Torre to the Dodgers – bad joke, sorry.
My DREAM for yankees line-up in 2008
1B- Doug Mentkiwetiz
2B- Robinson Cano
SS- Jeter
3B- Crede
LF:Melky
CF:Audruw Jones
RF: Abreu
DH: Damon/Giambi
Starting Pitching:
Santannaaaaaaaaaa
Pettite
Hughes
Chamberlain
Josh Fogg
i might get bahsed for this (but also realize) Melky i didn’t place in the deal only Wang….probalby should of put him in there but too lazy…theres other prospects in place of melky
The Yankees won more games in baseball than any team during the 80′s. Look it up.
If there was a wild card in the 80′s, they even would have made the playoffs in a few of those years.
The, “Its the 80′s” again, is a wonderful throwaway line.
Unfortunately, its not rooted in fact when it comes to believing they had losing years every year.
What was the “80′s again” is what we have seen the last few years. Get every high priced, over the hill guy you can find and then be suprised when they crap out in NY.
Keeping Cano and others in the dark was the best thing he could have done for them.
B,
He played with a broken finger for much of the first half. He heated up late and was still young for the league. He has gold glove potential and the Yanks think he’ll hit 25 hr’s a year, get on base and steal some bases. Right now he’s continuing his late season surge in the VWL. Trenton will be the friendliest homepark he will have played in… He’s gonna hit.
A few things:
1) The FAN keeps referring to Hank Steinbrenner indicating that “when A-Rod officially opts out….” (not sure what the official trigger is, but I don’t trust any of these lying sh*ts).
2) A-Rod reminds me a great deal of Wilt Chamberlain, clearly the most dominant individual basketball player ever, but couldn’t win a championship until later in his career when he melded himself into the team concept. (I watched as a player, AVERAGING 50 points and 25 rebounds a game for an entire season .. still an unbelievable athletic accomplishment – as an individual).
3) As with all things, we turn the page and life goes on. There is really no need to bash A-Rod for making a business decision. It’s appropriate to be disappointed in the way his agent handled it, but he’s an attorney, so what do you expect?
Rob,
He has serious back issues at 23. You might as well forget Eric Duncan exists.
sj44-
i have a great deal of respect for your baseball acumen ,but as i said in a post that got zapped, you love change so much that if you would have been on the titantic when it hit the iceberg, you would have said,” cool, now we can get a new captain and crew”.
the yankees have hit an ice berg.
whether the yankee ship sinks or not is open to debate. i can’t get past hank being at the helm. you can. we’ll see.
Good point, migames. I was hearing from a while back that Cashman believed A-Hole would opt out and would not resign with the Yankees. You have to believe in that case that he’s been considering backup options for a while now. Who knows: Maybe he’s already got something in the works. He can be sneaky like that.
The only issue with your “dream” lineup is that these guys are all terrible.
1B- Doug Mentkiwetiz
3B- Crede
LF:Melky
CF:Audruw Jones
Josh Fogg
Yeah! Girardi. *NOT*
How the F**K would you like your boss/manager to be your old co-worker that you out-performed telling you how to do your job!!!
Little Stein’s are complete morons!
I don’t care what any of you say. Yankee’s brass have no idea what they are doing. I truly don’t believe George is behind this, and if he is, well it’s because his brain is malfunctioning. He is not this dumb.
As I have said, “I am not a Torre fan” but the Yanks shot themselves in the head not signing Torre with all of these free agents. Joe Torre should have without questions opened the new stadium. very bad biz moves on the Stein’s part.
Just think, a new manager, no HR hitting star, a new stadium… mostly kids..
Yes I am glad that the restructuring is going on for sure, I love watching young hustling players compete..
but sorry to say it, I see it getting much worse before getting better. If only we can get rid of Giambi’s worthless self.
We need Johan very bad. We also need a bullpen, and a HR hitter.
Randy,
Did Hank Steinbrenner steal your girlfriend?
2008 free agent class is weak, but 2009 is amazing:
* – player whose contract includes 2009 option
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....gents.html
First Base
Carlos Delgado * NYM
Nomar Garciaparra LAD
Jason Giambi * NYY
Mark Teixeira ATL
Frank Thomas * TOR
Jim Thome CWS
Second base
Jeff Kent LAD
Shortstop
Orlando Cabrera LAA
Edgar Renteria * ATL
Third Base
Hank Blalock * TEX
Joe Crede CWS
Morgan Ensberg SD
Troy Glaus TOR
Chipper Jones * ATL
Catcher
Johnny Estrada MIL
Kenji Johjima SEA
Ivan Rodriguez DET
Jason Varitek BOS
Outfield
Bobby Abreu NYY
Rocco Baldelli * TB
Pat Burrell PHI
Carl Crawford * TB
Adam Dunn CIN
Jim Edmonds STL
Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN
Vladimir Guerrero * LAA
Jose Guillen SEA
Raul Ibanez SEA
Mark Kotsay OAK
Scott Podsednik CWS
Manny Ramirez * BOS
Starting Pitcher
A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out)
Jon Garland CWS
John Lackey * LAA
Rich Harden * OAK
Derek Lowe LAD
Pedro Martinez NYM
Matt Morris * PIT
Mike Mussina NYY
Mark Mulder * STL
Jake Peavy * SD
Brad Penny * LAD
Andy Pettitte NYY
C.C. Sabathia CLE
Johan Santana MIN
Ben Sheets MIL
John Smoltz * ATL
Relief Pitcher
Brian Fuentes COL
Trevor Hoffman SD
Brad Lidge HOU
Joe Nathan MIN
Hideki Okajima * BOS
Francisco Rodriguez LAD
Derrick Turnbow MIL
“Even Peter Gammons, who is a HUGE Arod fan, ripped him up and down for upstaging the WS.”
gammons once called the yankees,”billy martin and his brown shirts”.
even though he has melloweed with time, never pay too much attention to gammons when he talks about the yankees.
i keep reading that torre might end up in dodgers, good for him. I think its a great fit for him. If I owned the dodgers i would get rid of jeff kent. What will be intresting to see is if the dodgers become an ex yankee haven.
Guys – the FA classes are getting weaker and weaker as the economics of the game drive player values sky high. Whoever wastes the money on Arod will live to regret it. The Yanks’ budget is only going to help them in signing players they develop to long term contracts. Without a farm system you are hitchhiking on I-95.
I think the Yanks have legit pitching in the making but they will suffer until that young core (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy and let’s not forget Humberto Sanchez who had Tommy John surgery this year) comes of age. Arod or no Arod, this is a pitching-inexperienced team that will be hard pressed to compete for the next 2 years.
I am angry at A-Rod and really thought he’d stay. But I agree with many of you, in believing that the Yankees are fine offensively without him.
I worry not as long as 2 of the big 3 return — Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte — I think if you get Posada and Rivera, you get Andy.
If we lose 2 of them – then I am worried. Wang has proven that he can’t throw the sinker with confidence in the playoffs and from there… it is question mark city.
The offense will be OK — if the Yankees can somehow get Miguel Cabrera – that would be outstanding.
I remember someone suggesting that Yanks deals for Renteria….Just read in SI that Renteria is traded to Detroit Tigers.
How is it an iceberg? They haven’t hit an iceberg at all.
They changed managers. Many people, not just me, wanted that change. They chose the guy many people said they would never hire because the baseball people “wouldn’t be making the decision”. Yet, they got Girardi and its clear the baseball people made the decision. Hard for me to call it hitting an iceberg.
Many people, not just me, wanted this team to get younger and more athletic. They are moving in that direction.
Many people, not just me, wanted them to go to and trust their younger arms. That move put them in the playoffs this year.
In other words, the changes the Yankees are making are what teams in baseball are doing today. The Yankees are fortunate because they can get younger and more athletic AND still be able to pull off the big trade or FA acquisition because they are using their financial advantage intelligently for a change.
They have the best young pitching in the game. Even more on the way. They still have a good lineup.
Does it hurt to lose ARod short term? Yes. Long term? No.
How many titles did they win without Arod?
They need to re-tool the team. I don’t call that, “hitting an iceberg”. I call it, re-tooling, just like EVERY team has to do.
Do you really think they aren’t going to go after good players anymore? Do you really think, because they wouldn’t bow down to Arod and Boras, they can’t win?
They haven’t won WITH him!
There are plenty of people running baseball teams who would LOVE to have the Yankees “problems” today.
B-
good one .
not my girlfriend, but i feel like he’s holding my favorite team hostage.
I wanted to see A-Rod back in pinstripes next year. I love the idea of the Yankees wanting to stay out of the A-Rod sweepstakes. But here is something to consider….everyone knows that when the Yanks are in on the bidding for a player, the price will be driven up.
So I ask all you loyal bloggers….would it be a good idea for the Yanks to objectively get in on the negotiations (all the while never actually having a subjective interest in signing A-Rod) just to drive the price up for another team to have to pay? ESPECIALLY if that team happens to be the Red Sox or the Angels (both AL rivals)?
The more another team has to pay for A-Rod, the less money they have to pay other players. This may just be a crazy Machiavellian argument and the Yanks would take some heat for “going back” on their word. But privately, maybe if they realize that they can drive A-Rod’s price up even by 4 or 5 million a year, they may be willing to do some fake negotiating. Unfortunately this leads to A-Rod being the beneficiary but a) it wouldnt be the Yankees money and b)it would be for the common overall good to weaken an opponent a bit. Thoughts?
Very nice thread started by a sober post from Pete. If the Yankees really are turning a new win first/team first/ lets be creative page then it should start by moving Jeter to 3rd and putting a glove man like Alberto Gonzalez at SS. Once again, Jeter was 4-5 games worse than an average SS at defense last year. Making up with ofr that deficit on the defensive side is going to be way way cheaper and lower-risk than trying to make up for a fraction of the lost offensive firepower at third.
Post-Moneyball baseball economics is all about exploiting this type of value arbitrage. You see this in spades this year where Coco Crisp quietly added 3-4 wins vs. average for the Sox soley with his glove. He is the type of guy that would be a bargain if he were on the market now.
And with the $$$ off the Yankee books and FA class in 2008 it is going to be a good time to be a Yankees fan.
Boras on Michael Kay….
randy l-
“Billy Martin and his Brown Shirts” – HA!
I guess he was referring to Nettles and Mike Heath.
But we didn’t hit an iceberg. The biggest problem this was the lack of initial pitching. The spring training roster was horrendous. Only six reliable arms, and three of them (Mo, Wang, Moose) had bad starts. What turned the ship around wasn’t run production, rather it was Rocket, Ian, Joba, Phil, and a healthy Viz.
Funny A-Rod didn’t show up to get his Hank award last night. Makes sense now I guess. He would have really upstaged the W.S. if he was their to answer to the media.
Thanks, Pepper!
It’s been an eventful few days and I’ve waited awhile for my emotions to subside before posting…
1. Red Sox: Congrats on your victory, baseball karma certainly seems to be with you. Of course, it would have been nice if Colorado showed up…
2. Girardi: IMO the best choice to take this team in the right direction. I’ve heard the arguments regards his use of young pitchers, but I’m not buying. Curious as to who the new pitching coach will be.
3. Alex Rodriguiz: I was sincerely hoping he would stay but in the end it seems greed was his sole motivation. The actions of Alex and Scott Boras Sunday were / are the epitome of no class. $$$ isn’t everything, and I think Hank Steinbrenner said it all.
Time to trim off some more of the dead weight (Giambi) and get back into this thing next year.
renteria to the tigers for Jurrgens(good upside) and another minor leaguer….
ATl. has a the Cuban guy for SS and he is young…….
How are the tigers going to sign arod for 3B????No way……….
Yup, that’s A-Rod the mentor, skipping out without telling Robbie. Quite an example to the young players like Melky and Robbie who used to do a HR dance with A-Rod. Real Captain material. He’ll be an inspiration wherever he goes. SF? Detroit? Yeah, Detroit needs him and Sheffield back together again – clubhouse gold both of them.
Correct me if I am wrong but we are only talking about 4 players who were teamates of Girardi.Jeter, Mo, Po and Andy.These players are already leaders on this team.
Girardi was Andy’s personal catcher for a while.I am predicting that Joe will call Andy and say I need you to me a mentor to these young pitchers and lets see what we can do.
I think they other 3 will be just fine with dealing with Girardi if they have issues what woudl stop them fromcoming in and talking to the manager??
if it was a large amount of players who played with him I might have issues but there are more who didnt play with him then those who did.
Ok, listening to Boras on Michael Kay…
How can he say that there are concerns about the Yankees building a winning team and not having enough all-star caliber players on the team?
I am just dumbfounded who missing Rivera, Posada, Pettitte hold that much that it would sway Arod’s decision.
This IS about money. That is it.
If they can hold out on spending money this year on a bad free agent class, they will have Giambi, Mussina, Pettitte, Abreu, Pavano and Farnsworth coming off the books at the end of next year. That would be $80.5 million in salary that they would not be responsible for which would allow them to go after pitchers like Sabathia, Santana, Peavy, KRod, etc.
In 2009, they will only owe money to their young players (pretty cheap) along with Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Igawa and anyone they sign this off season. Financially, they aren’t locked into a lot of bad contracts after 2008, which means they can be big players in free agency in 2009 when it matters.
Edgar Renteria?
he got bounced from Boston after one season and not ATL after two.
He’s the Kenny Lofton of the infield.
the yankees actually hit the iceberg when swindall was put in charge a while ago. george must have been out of it then to put someone in charge of the yankees who was so disinterested that he spent his spare time cruising the seedy parts of st pete. cashman as a by product of swindall being in charge was given too much baseball control and he got rid of good people who he perceived as a threat. marty miller and people like him creeped in to take over for good people. i saw it then . i see it now.
torre, bowa, mattingly, guidry, stottlemyre, arod. all gone.
and it’s probably not finished. do you want a nice new young catcher too. i’m all for change too, but i’m not for throwing out the baby with the bath water.
i love giradi as manager so we’re in agreement there. i guess we’re going to have to wait and see what happens with posada and rivera. if both aren’t signed, i don’t think we have to wait until next spring to say the ship has sprunk a few serious leaks.
why would anyone beieve anything BORAS SAYS…
He is a joke…..
there’s still many options out there. trade an OFer and take advantage of the strong CF market this offseason. rowand is intriguing as a hard nosed proven winner who would fit well in NY and be a positive presence in the clubhouse. look for short term options at 1B/3B; role players. we dont need superstar players, merely above average guys. we still have good offensive presences in jeter, abreu, cano, matsui, and damon. thats 5 of 9. garret atkins would be an intrguing possibility at 3B as hes due for a big salary increase in arbitration and colorado may make him available as a result.
Any updates from the Michael Kay show? Is there a link to the streaming feed?
Thoughts on what Boras is saying:
On Arod being “worried” about the future of the team? I call BS on that one. Does he really believe the Yankees are no longer interested in winning? Can’t buy that Scott. That just feeds into the paranoia of insecure Yankee fans.
If he is expecting a groundswell of support for his client, he’s in for a rude awakening. It ain’t happenin’.
When you pay somebody 300 million+ bucks, guess what? He should be expected to CARRY a team. In other words, you have to be “the guy”. If Scott is trying to sell that Arod is just “one of the boys”, but is asking for 300 million? Nobody is buying that. In fact, if he really believes that, the Yankees may be the ONLY place he can go and just “fit in”. Everywhere else, he is going to be “the guy”.
It would be ironic if, one month of now, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera are back, and Arod is still shopping. The, “I’m worried about the direction of the team” argument will go by the wayside.
Maybe those guys are happy Arod is gone and that may facilitate their re-signing with the Yankees? Scott ever think about that premise?
This team will make the playoffs next year. Watching Detroit try and do what the Yanks have tried to do over the last four years is fun.(Sign underperforming bats)
Posada, Pettite, Rivera contracts to be resolved? Ohhh you mean guys that DO perform in October.
Borus sucks.
First and foremost, why would Boston sign up A-rod for the next 6-10 years when they have won 2 WS in the last 4 years with just Manny and Ortiz in the heart of their lineup and a bunch of pesky good hitters surrounding them? I dont think Epstein would take the post 2001 yankees route to bring in superstars.. If at all they are interested, it will be only for driving up the price which I dont think the yanks would fall for.. Remember that signing A-rod would also put them in the luxury tax bracket… Now coming back to the yanks, I think even though we have a bunch of young pitchers and good players around, there’s still some dead weight on this team.. Giambi, Mussina, Farnsworth and ofcourse Pavano.. Taking pavano off, we have 3 out of 25 players who make up close to 40 million of the payroll and dont contribute much.. Infact these players because of their ego and salary, have to be in the lineup or starting rotation even if they are hurting the team.. The good thing we have is all the young pitching we have and hopefully Wang improves himself to pitch in big games and Andy Stays.. The hitting is good enough and if we re-sign posada, that would leave Damon, Jeter, Cano, Abreu, Matsui, Posada, Melky, Giambi/Duncan and a third baseman (probably not known as A-rod)… I heard that yanks might go after Eric Chavez but that would be a disaster waiting to happen..
A-Rod to join Sleepin’ Joe in L.A.. Must watch television.
if arod signs with the marlins, which somepeople have said it might happen, i dont see it happening, but then again, i didnt see Arod opting out during the final outs of the world series, but, if he does, this claim that he was worried about the future of the team will sound even more BSish.
What the F. can arod come out even worse than he is coming out now? Doubt it.
“Post-Moneyball baseball economics is all about exploiting this type of value arbitrage.”
could you explain in baseball terms how this” value arbitrage” works ? it sounds like you understand the arbitrage part( whichi don’t), but i’m not sure what you are saying about baseball economics. the free market is the free market. moneyball was just using stats to go after players that conventional baseball wisdom didn’t value.
A-Rod to Miami would be ooutstanding. No one there to boo his poor post season performance.
And the Dodgers, even better. I cant wait until they go into their August nose dive. He is so clutch though, he’ll pull them out of it.
I have a new theory, not that anyone cares: Maybe Mr. Rodriguez does still want to play for the Yankees, and maybe it really isn’t about the money, per se… His opting out is about his desparate need to feed his ego, and he needs more than anything to see how much teams like him and want him. So, he came up with what he mistakenly perceived as a justifiable reason for opting out early (i.e., during the final game of the WS), so that he could get on the market and let other teams fawn all over him and throw gobs of money at him – even knowing full well that he probably won’t end up making any more by opting out than what he would’ve gotten from the Yanks. And there’s certainly an element of “let them PROVE how much they want me” in his mind also. We’ve seen his psychological issues first-hand for four years now…
If St Louis would throw in some prospects or pay some of his contract, I say take a flier on Scott Rolen (remember him?). When healthy he is at least as good as Lowell. If Yankee fans could lay off the guy during his slumps he might be able to survive NY. Platoon him with Betemit so he can rest somewhat. St Louis would trade him with prospects or cash in a heartbeat.
check out this link also on free agent signing predictions:
http://www.mlb4u.com/topfa07.php
I agree with SJ44, I think this stunt is going to backfire on Boras and Arod, no one individual is bigger then the team or the game. Arod has completely lost whatever credibility he had. Now he simply going to be viewed as a greedy opportunist, perhaps the proper perception of him all along.
SJ:
Thanks. You’ve been pumping out sanity all day long.
Scott Rolen forget it on top of his injury prone self this is a guy who could not hack it in Philadelphia no way he could make it here
Joe Torre to LA rumors.
Somewhere Scott proctor is shivering in fear.
Thanks for the clarification on the draft picks Pete!
Okay guys, this where I play the I’m-a-history-major-so-I’m-going-to-pretend-to-know-what-I’m-talking-about card.
Basically, people are afraid of change.
Change is not always good, we don’t like it when we are faced with an unknown.
Why else do you think FDR was elected to four consecutive terms?
But it’s the future that is here now.
As I’ve said before
The darkest hour is just before dawn.
(Do we have any 3B in the farm system?)
I get that making money is a great thing. I get that in sports, money is your rating. It shows your relative worth. But at some point _more_ money is just redundant. I keep thinking about all the really fun moments that happened for the Yankees generally, and for ARod particularly, this past season. About the camera shots when ARod didn’t necessarily know the camera was and he was just having fun with his teammates. The pure joy. The bullpen teasing him. I can’t believe he is not man enough to tell Boras – THIS is what I want. I want to belong. I want to enjoy what I’m doing. I don’t want to fight to fit in any more. Money does not get you this. And the man wants a 10 YEAR CONTRACT. Does he really want 10 more years of just being someone who bills himself has a professional hitter? Barry Bonds survived his career. Is that what ARod really wants? I have trouble believing that a human being can be that callous. And when you saw ARod with Robbie and Melky especially, you really got the feeling that there was a genuine side to ARod. I desperately wanted to believe that THAT ARod would be calling the shots with Scott Boras.
I will get over this. But it puzzles me.
Wouldn’t it be great if we had an owner with George Steinbrenners will to win,who unlimited resources and the sense to listen to his baseball people? Oh, wait a minute we might just have that in Hank Steinbrenner! This bashing the “ministeins” is rediculous as is the Titanic BS…As SJ points out. The Yankees are in good shape for the future with an elite crop of young pitching that is very deep, Good Baseball people in charge and a pretty solid team already in play. To this we’ll be adding some very high ceiling position players in the next couple of years in Austin Jackson (who may be in pinstripes sooner then expected), Jose Tabata who with a severe wrist injury still hit 300 in Tampa. Jesus Montero who has insane power. Juan Miranda who is as good as advertised and plenty more where they came from. We will get at least 2 high picks in next years draft for A-Rod and if Posada and Mo follow him out of town we will add another 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. this usually doesn’t mean much, however, the Yankees have been very aggressive in drafting high risk high reward players. with so many early picks the Yankees will probably find the next Joba and maybe more. Do not fear change… fear complacency.
“It would be ironic if, one month of now, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera are back, and Arod is still shopping. The, “I’m worried about the direction of the teamâ€? argument will go by the wayside.”
if all these guys sign i will be a lot more optimistic about 2008 .
to me posada is the key player. he absolutely has to be signed.
Here is a crazy thought (I think I actually read it in a comment to one of the posts on this blog, but I can’t find the post so apologies for lack of attribution to the person that posted it first).
What if Boras had an unwritten “understanding” with Hicks that Arod would opt out and save him his subsidy for the next three years? This certainly would have eased the pain of the subsidy and potentially greased the wheels for what in hindsight was a pretty lopsided trade in favor of the Yanks. I hold a slim sliver of hope that Arod really does want to come back to the Yanks, unfortunately it doesn’t seem like there is much if any chance of that happening.
All that speculating aside, the timing of the announcement is simply bizarre. I really can’t understand the thought process behind it. Boras is not an idiot — he can’t possibly think it was in Arod’s best interest to upstage the Series in such a classless manner. He certainly would have gotten similar press attention if he announced it today and would have avoided some of the more venomous reactions. He had to know that this tactic would likely diminish Arod’s “iconic” status. He had the possibility to become the face of the Yankees — the last guy introduced at Old timers day for years to come. Its hard to imagine any incremental pay he receives from another team could make up for this decrease in his “brand” value.
Boras kept bringing up Bernie Williams in his Michael Kay interview.
I say we make due with Betemit and Minky at 1st in 2008 and go for Mark Texeira for 2009.
i heard this once from a phd from Stanford, its impossible to spend $300 million in your lifetime. You can buy stuff, like houses and such, but those things have a worth. The only way one can burn through that much money is buying food and clothe. Its impossible to go through that money. So yes, there is a limit and arod just doesnt know about it. This will be one hell of a commision for boras
Teixera is going to want an insane contract. They need to be extremely careful with the big contract bats they bring in. Pitching is another story (please Johan, please….)
Remember how pumped everyone was to see Phil Hughes this year? Then he got hurt and was rusty when he came back… and by then we had a guy come up named Joba that took New York City by storm and took away Phil’s thunder as he struggled a little to regain his control and prove that game in Texas was no fluke?
I’m pumped to see Joba start next year. Kennedy too. But I’m still more pumped to see Hughes. Anyone that was too blinded by the pathetic offense we had during the playoffs should revisit the Franchise’s appearances. His stuff is filthy and that fact that we had 2 other guys come up that were good enough and exciting enough to make some of us temporarily forget about “baby Rocket” should be all you need by way of encouragement for next year and the next ten years.
Boras can talk about jesus christ on the cross, but it doesnt justify what he and his client did yesterday. Do it today, do it tomorrow. dont do it towards the end of the World Series.
Chris NY – totally agree. Joba stole the thunder but once Hughes gets comfortable with his offspeed pitches at this level he is going to be filthy. You can replace power and hitting in free agency. You don’t get guys like Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain in free agency. We do need some bullpen help however.
The Marlins? I think they’d have to DOUBLE their payroll to afford A-Rod’s annual salary, if I’m not mistaken….
The Yankees are NOT in Good Shape. That sounds like something Voltaire’s Candide might say about the team he covers.
They have a crater in the middle of their line-up; they have no cleanup hitter; and they have no right-handed power bat; and they have no third baseman– the MVP who was single-handely responsible for keeping this team afloat long enough to enable them to contend for the playoffs.
Their five hitter, Matsui, skills regressed last year. Their seventh hitter, Giambi, is a geriatic albatross. And Posada, their sixth hitter, even if he return turns 37 next season.
The Yankees have two– yes TWO– starting position players under 33– Melky and Cano. THAT’S IT.
And Tabata and A.Jackson, their two best position player prospects, are years away.
And for all of you who suddenly think the Yankees’ rotation is going to be the best in baseball next year because Little Stein declared Joba a starter– keep in mind that Joba Chamberlain has never pitched more than 170 innings in a single year and the last time he did so was his junior year in college, the season after which he developed tricep tendonitis. Since 2005, Joba pitched 127 innings in ’06 and 152 inning in ’07.
Hughes hasn’t pitched more than 172 innings in a single season– also in 2005.
And who the heck knows how any of these guys is going to pitch over a single major league season, however many innings they’ve logged. It’s nothing but a question mark.
Describing the Yankees as in “GOOD SHAPE” right now is a little like claiming the US is winning the war in Iraq.
And IPK, once year, hasn’t logged more than 170 innings in a single year.
Definitely need some bullpen help. good thing is, if those 3 + Wang and Pettitte or Moose or someone else can make-up a formidable rotation and go 7-8 innings a game, we won’t need as big an army out in the ‘pen. Hopefully they’ll give us what we’re all looking for (or half of what we’re dreaming of for that matter, considering our high hopes) and the pen can be worked out easier. The last few years, we’ve needed so much out of the pen it was impossible to keep them rested enough to be as good as they could have been.
The reality is, we’ve had good guys out there, but when they pitch everyday, it’s not realistic to think they’ll stay as effective.
I am liking what I am seeing with the new Yankee structure. Admittedly, was not happy about how Torre was handled but now with a cooler head I know was time for a change. And change is certainly happening. I like that George’s sons have rallied to the challenge and involved in the game. I like that Cash is getting respect from them as well. I like Joey G in the dugout. I believe he is a very smart baseball mind. I really like that A-Rod is gone. His ego filled the clubhouse and his baggage was heavy. I like this team.
Kill Schilling – I dont think anybody expects the Yankees young arms to peak next season. There is plenty of reason for optimism though… and most professional scouts would agree.
Friends,
The sad truth here is that it actually isn’t about money here for Alex. It’s about the recognition that money represents. Forgive the psycho-babble in what follows, but what else do you do with this morass of ethically and logically impaired maneuvers?
Alex is a colossal talent, but clearly suffers from low self esteem and a desperate need for acceptance and validation, perhaps due to his father walking out on him. This need is so acute that it impedes him getting those things, which seem so readily available for him that it boggles our minds how he manages to bumble it away. Boras is manipulating his client’s weakness. But it isn’t about money for him either, at least not in the pure sense. It is about the power and attention that he gains from manipulating the situation so publicly. Despite all of his talk about representing Alex’s rights and interests, he is betraying them for his own. Maybe this is all about his own career as a player never panning out. Who knows? Regardless, the Yanks would have given Alex money that would compete or surpass any other offer, if he and Boras would have come to the table. But then they miss out on this circus. It is entirely possible he will get even less now, if the Hankees hold firm as they should and Yankee money is off the table. He’ll still do fine, to say the least, but probably not the best deal he could have gotten. There is only one Tom Hicks and he’s not doing that again. Finally, even bringing up this bogus issue of the “transition” that Hank opened the door on like a fool, shows an aversion to taking a leadership position. Alex is obviously not looking to be part of the solution. He could have been just that with the Yanks. Unfortunately his weakness of character left him vulnerable to the machinations of Boras and the latter’s own complexes.
rany i sad:
“could you explain in baseball terms how thisâ€? value arbitrageâ€? works ? it sounds like you understand the arbitrage part( whichi don’t), but i’m not sure what you are saying about baseball economics. the free market is the free market. moneyball was just using stats to go after players that conventional baseball wisdom didn’t value.”
But I think you Do understand it. Moneyball is NOT about OBP, it is about (as you said) using statistics to go after skills conventional baseball wisdom undervalued” At the time, it was OBP even if the player had little defensive value. Today it is certainly something else. Finding it before every one else does is the arbitrage, which is the financial term for taking advantage of a price differential between two or more markets. In baseball, the objective is to win games. The markets for this are broadly “pitching, hitting, defense and staying healthy”. Or you can drill down deeper into the components “markets” of hitting such asOBP, power, or deeeper yet (something like line drive % or in pitching strikeout rate rather than ERA). In an effiiceint market for wins, all of these things would be fairly valued and there would be no arbitrage opportunity.
My theory, fwiw is that the current arbitrage opportunities using cutting edge stats and scouting to determine defensive value. Or how to keep pitchers healthy. Or advanced scouting techniques using video technology. Or how to project how a Japanese pitcher will fare in the US. But is isn’t anything as simple as OBP.
The scary thing is that the Sox are very good at this. Not a srprise given that the team’s owner made his fortune trading in the financial markets, which are a lot more efficient and sophisticated than the baseball market.
SJ44 always has some rational thoughts, but
Kill-Schill(ing) brings up some good points.
The Yankees farm system is in the best shape since the 50s regarding pitching prospects. However, there are too few position players who are able to step in and be frontline performers in the nest few seasons. The Front Office will have to make some shrewd moves to expect post season appearances in 2008. Otherwise, we may have to be patient – As Hank Stein already called for.
Unfortunately, the Boston Red Sox have a blend of youth and talent that resemble those yankee Teams of the middle 90s and will be difficult to overtake.
Replacing ARod’s offense is nearly impossible – he has the most impressive stats in MLB. That said, building a winner can be done without ARod, he’s already shown 3 teams that signing him is no guarantee for winning a championship.
The expectations of Joba, Hughes, and IPK must be tempered with the realization that these guys are still a few years away from realizing their potential. Pettite is a must signing and possibly one other No. 3 or solid No. 4 would help.
A good lefty reliever is also amust, as is a righty hitter with 30-35 Hr potential.
None of these positions will be easy to fill. However, if I’m Cashman I throw some serious money at Mike Lowell along with 4 years contract length. The current Boston braintrust has a pattern of not wanting to give longterm contracts to players that will play beyond Age 35 (see Johnny Damon).
Lowell is actually an upgrade at 3B, defensively. He won’t approach ARod’s offensive numbers, but would make a fine No. 4 hitter in the current Yankee lineup – and hit in the post season.
One thing is for certain (IMO), the new Yankee management seems to be committed to continuing its tradition as the most successful organization in sports history. How they go about it should be a thrill!
Boras had to get announcement out B4 A-Rod went with his heart and called miniSteins back.IMO
arod is a goon. and poor Cano, i wonder if arod called anyone
“Still in good shape”? I’m confused. I thought the Weasels and Not-Torre were going to lead the Yanks into the next Dark Ages???
Alex Rodriguez does not want to play for the Yankees. That is his decision. I am not interested in the reason he would rather play for another team. I am disappointed with his decision but in the end he has to live with it.
I see little reason to bash Scott Boras except for his bad timing in announcing his client’s intentions. A-Rod can say “no, don’t do that” as easily as he can say “yes, do that.” Scott Boras is employed by Alex Rodriguez.
if u cant have a grat lineup then u need a great pitching staff annd bullpen ie yanks
I am amazed at the number of comments about reducing the Yankee payroll.. Yankees have the biggest audience in baseball, the most robust team owned sports channel, a whole lot of money going to be saved because of luxury tax set offs against the new stadium costs, best international market (i travel to Asia often and the only games i see are the Yankee games) and mostly importantly, owners who are aggressive with their money.
I know that its great to develop home grown talent (especially pitching, as the best talent is never hitting the market). But, I would be peeved if they don’t chase a can’t miss high cost talent (not named A-Rod) available on the market.
And, I say this keeping in mind that Santana, Miguel Cabrera and Texiera are all hitting the market (potentially) next year.
After reading most of these comments, I can see an overall agreement that the Yankees are better by subtraction.
Now let’s minus a few others by trade with the need to eat some salary to do so. Send Giambi to the Angels and eat as much as needed to get a few prospects in return.
Make a trade for Santana now with the Twins for Wang, Mussina, and Melky. Sign him to 5 years at 65-70 mill. May have to eat half of the Moose’s salary. May even force him to retire.
Sign Tori Hunter for Center. Keep the 2 headed Left Field-DH combo of Damon and Matzui intacked.
Send Abreau packing. Put Shelly in Rt. Move Jeter to 3rd, and let the kid from the minors take over short. Has more range then Jeter anyway. Yeh Jeter, take one for the team and make the move. A certain Hall of Famer in Baltimore did it and it extended his carrer and Legend.
The money saved by ridding Abreau, Giambi, and Moose could be put to mid- relief, Posada, and Mo. Make Petite an offer of a two year extention negating his option and guaranteeing the 2 years.
What a rotation, Santana, Petite, Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy. Maybe get some Mileage out of Pavano as a long relief, or add him to a trade.
The best thing that happened to the Red Sox in 2005 was not making the playoffs. They sat down and remade the team for the future. The Yankees need to do the same. The new Joe in town will keep them in the race and more this year.