Boras spins it another way
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- October
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You have to hand it to Scott Boras, he keeps trying to have it his way. He continues to insist that Alex Rodriguez is just like Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera, another player who became a free agent.
“Why is it that Alex is the only Yankee who can’t become a free agent?” Boras told the AP. “That question was not answered, and we think it’s a question that’s going to be asked for years to come.”
Well, there is the small matter of the $30 million the Yankees would lose from the Rangers. Or that A-Rod refused to return messages from the team owners. Or that he decided to flee the Yankees on a Sunday night in the middle of the World Series via text message.
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Joe Torre’s impending arrival in Los Angeles is big news out there. NPR in southern California had me on to talk about it today. You can listen here.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
As one writer said, Joe Girardi will help us forget about Joe Torre, to tell you the truth. I didn’t even think about Joe Torre today it completley left my mind, so good for you Joe but the Yankees have other business to do.
My cousin is a huge Dodgers fan. I sent him an email telling him to hide his bullpen like yesterday.
Boras is an ass. I don’t even know what more to say about him. I wonder if he’d take a 30 million pay cut off what ever contract he is seeking?
I really cant see any other teams for A-Rod to go to than the Dodgers and Angels. I think Boras really overlooked how many teams are actually willing to spend $250-$300 million on a player that is doing to eventually start declining (albeit slowly) over the whole contract.
NPR..Peter. YOU are the man.
The Dodgers
As for Boras he can go jump into the Pacific Ocean for all I care. Mo and Jorgie are Yankee Legends and well Alex Rodriguez and David Winfield have something in common they could never come through in the postseason as well getting the heck out of dodge as soon you could opt out. So, A-Rod you are the new David Winfield so go to your Bid Daddy Scotty Boras.
And I wish the media as a whole would let it go about Joe T. Why is Joe on the back of the paper, and not Joe G? Joe G is now the Yankee manager! He should have the back page.
Also the NY Post had an interesting article on the whole Joe T and Grady Little thing. Basically talking about how Joe was upset last year and it was basically said that Lou had the Yankee job, and now he did the same thing to Grady.
Poor Boras doesn’t understand why the Yankees won’t let him use them to raise the stakes for Alex. I just hope Cashman sticks to his guns and focuses his efforts elsewhere.
RYAN
The Metropolitans. You know the B-Team in NY.
arod will wind up in either the angels, the dodgers, the giants, or the cubs..
that is it……..
i would laugh if this does not work out well for payrod and borass
On a scale of 1-10, if A-Rod gets a mammoth deal signed with someone soon, how likely is it the Yankees might claim tampering?
I think Borassss is starting to panic for fear he may have actually PO’d the Yankees and possibly ruined any future dealings with them. He needs the Yankees like diabetics need insulin.
again all the press loves torre becuase he is NICE to them it is a little netowrk like most things in life…
he accomodated them and they appreciate it..
yeah, I wonder if during the torre press conference anyone will call him on his gentlemanly actions and how it affected grady little.
they will lie about the whole thin anyway…
it is clear boras wants the Yankees around for the negotions – he is trying to get them back in it so the price rises, its good the yankees are taking this hard line, even if they do decide to get back involved, which i doubt but you never know
Let Boras twist in the wind.
no surprise there peter. bor-ass will do whatever it takes to keep the price high. a-rod’s behavior is obviously that of a man who was patently uninterested in returning to the yanks. you’ve listed it rather well: from refusing to discuss anything w/ the team owners to making his announcement when he did (Game 4 of the WS no less) to having his agent send a TEXT MESSAGE (!!) to the GM of the yanks. talk about poor communication. good riddance i say. let’s move on and forget about him already.
JAY
you need to rub one out…seriously.
Ya gotta think a deal is in place even before Little was fired but they have to drag it out to make it look good to save Selig’s sorry ass in the press.
…Colletti was quick to point out that other candidates were also being considered.
It is obvious that Joe was talking to the Dodgers while Grady was still manager, and it is even more obvious that Grady was forced out.
Funny how the Dodgers wanted him when they picked up his option and he wanted to be back, than Joe G takes the managers job and they go to plan c of Joe T.
Enough Bor-ASS the Yanks will not get caught up in your little web to try to get the Angels to give your money grubbing whore Arod more money. The simple answer to his question is Arod did not have to be a free agent he choose to be…case closed. Arod go take all of your stripper gfs to Calif. and the freak show that you always make around yourself and good bye.
Who is worse, Drew Rosenhaus or Scott Boras?
Gee, no Minority interview?
How funny.
I guess Selig doesn’t care unless it involves NY.
One thing I have to say regarding this:
I was listening to Boras’s interview with Michael Kay earlier this week and Michael Kay failed to ask him the most important and obvious question!!
Michael Kay: “Scott, I know you have issued several statements claiming Alex Rodriguez’s free agency is a contractual right of his and simply because he exercised that right does not mean he does not want to be a Yankee, however the higher-ups have repeatedly said if Alex ops out the Yankees will not pursue him. How do you maintain your stance?”
Scott Boris: “Well Michael, Bernie, Jorge and Rivera opted for free agency, does that mean they don’t want to be Yankees?”
Michael Kay: “By Bernie, Jorge and Mariano opting for free agency all they cost the Yankees was the exclusive negotiating rights, by Alex opting for free agency the Yankees lose $30 million. Can you not understand why an organization would decide not to lose that money?”
Scott Boris “uhhh…..”
Has anyone read or heard Boris be put on the spot with this issue or heard his response?
I am a Michael Kay fan, but was very disapointed he did not take advantage of a great opportunity to ask Boris the question all Yankees fans want to know.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime,
Yes… that is my question, what would need to occur for the Yankees to complain about tampering. Peter, Can you help us out with that question?
Posada and Rivera both were willing to discuss new contracts before the season and the Yankees said they wanted to wait. A-Rod never even came to the negotiation table or returned a phone call from Hank or Hal. Fact of the matter is he could have tried to get as much money as possible from the richest team in sports and saved them $30 million at the same time. All with the option of free agency in the background. Or opt out and try to get as much money as possible and if the Yanks were bluffing cost the team you supposedly enjoyed playing for the $30 million susidy. He clearly just lied all season about his fondness for NY and just wanted out. Boras is just trying to make him not look so bad.
I find it very strange that a man who usually takes everything to 11:59:59 opted out before the world series was even over. What did he know that made him opt out so early? Does he have something in his back pocket that he will wait forever to get signed to avoid looking like they were negoitating while he was still a Yankee?
And don’t the Yankees till have “exclusive negotiating” rights for the next 10 days or so?
Who is Boras trying to impress?
The Yankees made their decision. I don’t think they will change their mind. Whatever feelings they have about the process and Boras will probably be kept quiet, as Boras does represent a lot of players in the game, and you have to be able to do business with him.
But does Boras think he will change the public’s mind? Maybe get ARod some endorsements?
Also I have to say that Boras’s answer when Kay asked him why Arod didnt call Hank and Hal back was CLASSIC..or atleast respond to there calls…And his answer was….Arod never got any calls from them. If Arod didnt want to be here, which obviously he didnt because Yanks=October and obviously Arod doesnt, you show respect and atleast return the phone call. That was absolutely disgusting of him. Also the famous “I love NY, anywhere but here wouldnt be home” well he talks out of his #$$ and will now have 4 homes, and he has wore out welcomes in all of them.
Here’s the Boras-Arod timetable:
Week 1: Scott does every sports talk radio show in markets where Arod could land. Talking about what an “iconic” player Arod is and how he will change the face of any franchise. Neglecting, of course to mention the his post-season numbers and the fact he has no rings. Symbols of “iconic” athletes these days.
Week 2: He will leak to some of his buddies in the national media (Heyman and Rosenthal) he is having “productive” meetings re: Arod.
Week 3: After the Yankees re-sign Mo and Posada, and Andy announces he is coming back, the NY media will hammer him about the fact he and Arod “didn’t know” the direction the Yankees were going.
Week 4: Boras will announce he has a “mystery team” in the bidding for Arod.
Week 5: He will call Cashman for “one last chance” to sign Arod. Cashman, asleep after reading his kids a story from Arod’s Childrens Book, doesn’t take the call.
Week 6: The America held Hostage by Scott Boras tour is finally over. He will announce the winner in the Arod Sweepstakes……..The San Francisco Giants.
Barry Bonds will be on hand to slip on the number 300 jersey (to represent every buck Scott got out of Peter McGowan) on Arod and also to give him Victor Conte’s new toll free number.
On the same day, Derek Jeter will buy everybody at the pool at the Shore Club on South Beach a drink upon hearing that Arod is finally gone. He will then take his new squeeze, Gabrielle Union, to Nobu for a “private” celebration.
Boras is a lawyer. The greatest painters cannot turn black into white, the greatest wizards cannot turn wood into gold. But the average lawyer can make a guilty client look pure as the driven snow.
1) His client wasn’t allowed to become a free agent? Sure he was. And he announced his decision to do so during Game 4 of the WS. Maybe Scott forgot he did this. Or maybe Scott was speaking rhetorically. Either way, Scott was wrong.
2) As for Boras’ “why are they picking on A-Rod and not Mo and Po” stuff, A-Rod is plainly distinguishable from Mo and Po in that:
a) neither Mo nor Po is the highest paid player in the league and yet each has won a WS ring or two (or three or four) with the Yankees after making large contributions to those victories.
b) neither MO nor Po opted out of an already obscene contract to try to get an even more obscene contract without even listening to the obscene offer the Yankees were prepared to make.
c) neither Mo nor Po were disingenuous all season long about caring for this team and this City and wanting to remain Yankees.
Scotty, the fans are far more upset about A-Rod leaving than the Yankees are. The Yankees are ticked at A-Rod’s lack of class in handling his affairs. Other than that they have moved on. Besides, since time immemorial in a breakup the one that leaves agrees and understands that the one he left behind gets to have pity parties and the righteously indignant consolation of friends.
So Mr. Boras, for any one of the above reasons, please shut up.
You know what Cash should do with that answer, make his telephone record with PHONE NUMBER available to show phone calls were made.
Arod already has another team waiting. There is no question about it. No way does Boras pull him off the table with the richest baseball franchise without even hearing what they have to say.
He is trying to make it look like arod is concerned with who the players are going to be and how new management will handle it, Arod doesn’t care about that. The Yankees could have said 7 years 220. No other team would match that but to not even listen something is up.
Wait until next year when he comes back an all star…hahah
Prediction: not one sports journalist will ask St. Joe why he helped stab Little in the back. And Rebecca, I had same thought re tampering. I hope Cash pursues it.
Paul I can’t wait until the All Star game for a number of reasons, but that list was expanded on Sunday night. I hope to be there to add my vocals of booing, but if not I’ll be enjoying adding it at a local watering hole with other fans.
Cash should have the paper work saved, and just needing to add the teams name.
It was clear when he did it with JD Drew, and it is even clearer with Alex.
I only wonder if teams will not allow the opt out in contracts anymore. Also i’d be curious to know if Scott would allow a team to insert and opt out clause of their own.
SJ:
I think you nailed it.
And the Gabrielle Union thing, sweeeet. Now you know why he’s The Captain.
Murph,
I saw them together last week. A sweet couple! lol
Jeter is amazing!
SJ:
And he never seems to break a sweat. That’s an MVP (Most Valuable Playa) performance if you ask me. More power to him that he just rolls along and stays above the fray.
You know Jeter was celebrating the night he found out that Arod opted out. It would be funny if there pics found of him from that night. He drank every alcoholic drink he could get his hands on and every girl he could fit in his house…alot. I am sure he wasnt the only teammate that was happy, probably about 20 others.
SJ: I can *so* see that happening!
Found the Joe G interview.
http://espn-mp3-od.andomedia.c.....irardi.mp3
I wouldn’t be surprised if ARod developed an “injury” mid-July next year, and is unable to appear in the All Star Game.
If Jeter’s mating habits are going according to schedule, and this tidbit would suggest just that, I think he’s over this season and will be more than ready for next year. And if the Captain is ready, I say the team will be ready. So thank you, Gabrielle. (But please be gentle with him. He’s not as young as he used to be).
I think there’s a lot of vicarious living thru the captain.
“Prediction: not one sports journalist will ask St. Joe why he helped stab Little in the back.”
In an article on mlb.com, I just read that the dodgers had Joe G lined up to manage next year, until the Yankees position became available. If you think Little didn’t know about that going on, you’re nuts. So…basically, the Dodgers were _already_ working on replacing Little before Joe T even became available. So…I don’t get how Joe T helped “stab Little in the back,” if the Dodgers were already working on replacing him with Joe G.
Joe It wouldn’t shock me either if Alex has a prior engagement.
Listening to the Joe G interview, his kid ran up to him, daddy aren’t we supposed to go to the park. LOL
I hope somehow we win the series next year. How amazing would it be. How sweet would it be.
Joe will reveal what number he is wearing tomorrow, he didn’t wear it with the Yankees, but he wore it elsewhere.
Where can we find the numbers he has worn.
hey where did u see jeter and gabrielle union?
do you guys think the captain will show up tomorrow for the press conference? I know he is suppose to call in or be on MMD for their 20th anniversary special?
I’m starting to think that the Yankees dodged a bullet on this one. If you go to BaseballReference.com and look at A-Rod’s ten most comparable players, you will see that only one, Hank Aaron, a much better hitter than A-Rod, continued to produce after his age 35 season. Giving A-Rod 8 years/230 million would be extremely risky. A-Rod supporters don’t see this because they are only looking at his performance last season.
Boras is doing his job as A-Rod’s agent, though he should be smart enough to realize everyone in baseball knows they handled the situation poorly and whichever team signs A-Rod will be doing so based on his numbers and not how he handled opting out. Remember, though, this is the same guy who was trying to say the Mets would basically get A-Rod for free based on the revenue he brings in. I wonder if he really believes that himself.
Michael Kay said something interesting on his radio show though. Suppose A-Rod wanted to see what he was worth on the open market, which I can understand. If I were one of the best players of baseball history I’d be curious what I could pick up as well, especially since this is the last time I’d have the chance to find out (given that his contract will probably take him into the 40s).
So, he goes onto the FA market and does find out what he’s worth: he’s offered some huge 10-year deal with some team worth $300 million. Then he comes back to the Yankees and says: “OK, so you want your keep the $30 million in Texas money? Fine. I’ll come back for $270 million.”
Deal?
It would be smart play on A-Rod’s side because he maximizes pay by going onto the market. But then the Yankees also get what they want in that they save $30 million dollars of ‘Texas money’. It seems like a win-win on both sides if it comes to that.
Yanks will be happy to take A-Fraud back. Just take $30mil off the offer they were prepared to make him.
At the risk of being accused of heresy and having my husbands season tickets revoked, I don’t think Scott Boras is the only one who has handled this situation poorly. Brian Cashman preferred to wait when Mo and Jorge wanted to discuss contracts earlier in the year but has a problem with Boras preferring to wait now. Cashman is under no obligation to back up the Brinks truck for A-Rod but also shouldn’t have slammed the door on future negotiations. In business you never say never.
Jennifer:
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pf.....tid=335264
Trish – Is it proper business etiquette to expect someone with whom you’d like to do business to publicly embarass themselves? Because that is what Boras is expecting of the Yankees if they come back and do business with him.
If you want to make a deal, you make a deal, or at least an attempt. If you don’t want to make a deal, you make excuses. Unless every newspaper in NY got the story wrong, Boras and ARod never responded to the Yankees – not during the season when Cash approached them, and not at the end of the season.
Boras, no matter what we think about him, has been a genius at what he does. But right now, he looks like a complete jackass peddling this nonsense under the assumption that the entire MLB fanbase can’t see right through the BS.
Boras reminds me of one of the salesman (maybe Shelley Levine) from “Glengarry Glen Ross”… always trying to peddle some load of BS on an unsuspecting rube.
Problem is no one, least of all the Yankees, is buying his line. Boras and Arod have lost whatever credibility they ever had, and their cheap publicity stunt upstaging Game 4 has backfired.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Arod wallowing in obscurity in some NL team. wherever he winds up, he’ll never regain the stature he had in NY.
Rebecca that doesn’t answer the question
I can’t find his numbers for other teams, he said it would be a number previously worn but not for the Yankees.
Oh well, I should hit the hay got home at 2am today from Bon Jovi so I am wiped out.
Good night all.
I have no idea why Boras keeps asking that question when the easy/obvious answer is the Texas subsidy. I don’t know what he’s trying to accomplish.
If Alex wanted to remain a Yankee, it was crystal clear that he could, and make 200+ million by doing so.
He either – 1. Had no desire to remain with the team or 2. Already has a mega deal in place that they’re waiting on to avoid tampering allegations or 3. Both
re: the text message thing..
i read that boras called cash twice to let him no he was opting out, but apparantly cash claimed that he fell asleep reading his kid a story, during the WS and missed the calls. well cash, thats a very expensive story…
Here is my issue with A-Rod. Yes, the middle of game 4 declaration was crappy. But that did not affect Yankee fans. Yes, the $30 million loss from Texas is crappy. But again, we’re not paying that.
What my issue is the posturing all season, “I love New York, this is home to me, my other two teams feel weird to me now, I’ve overcome a lot of adversity to feel comfortable.” He made us think he wanted to stay, but now he ignores us after making the hugest deal about opting out. He opted out before even talking to the Yankees.
Mo and Jorge didn’t have any contract left. They didn’t get rid of contract to be free agents.
A-Rod makes me sad. I went around my office (full of Yankee fans) and put post-its over his face on any pictures people had up of him. He is not allowed to look at us.
Rich – What was so urgent about publicly announcing ARod’s opt-out that Boras couldn’t wait to talk to Cashman personally?
There’s only one answer – He didn’t want/need to talk to Cash because he either didn’t care, or he wanted to say to the world “Hey, look at me!” Well, Boras and ARod got noticed, all right.
Yesterday Boras was interviewed on an LA sports radio show…..He’s started about A-Rod’s ICONIC value….He also went on how his decision will be based upon how comfortable his family will be in this new ( unknown ) environment….But the best was how it’s so very important for Alex to play for a team who’s owner is committed to winning the World Series every season……The two radio dudes who were doing the interview started snickering….The program director then cut to a commercial and Boras was gone……Unbelievable….But Boras is mesmerizing with his BS……
Joe from LI
I’m not suggesting that the Yankees publicly humiliate themselves. What I am suggesting is that an ultimatum should never have been issued publicly in the first place. The Yankees stance should have been that their best offer was going to be available prior to opt out and not after it. Gives the same message and doesn’t slam any doors shut. I would love to use an analogy you may or may not be familiar with about pants dropping and a ruler but not sure it is PG13 enough for this blog.
Andrea
Mo and Jorge both had contract left when Cashman refused to negotiate with them earlier this year.
Yanks should announce that Joe Girardi will be wearing jersey # 13 HA HA
Ah, you silly kids…still looking for ways to trash Joe Torre.
If only you were old enough to appreciate what he’s done for this franchise over the past 12 years…
Boras said Arod wants to play on a team who’d owner is committed to winning the WS? Thats hilarious.
Trish,
I’m probably one of many sick and tired about talking and hearing about Arod,, but I can’t let this go.
The Yankees had no benefit from Arod opting out, as they’d be out the Texas subsidy, so they used consistently clear language that if Arod chose that road, he’d do it without the Yankees following him.
Using language that you propose would not have pursuaded Arod from opting out, on the contrary it would have encouraged him to go for it, knowing as a minimum he’d get some offer from NYY which would only serve to drive up the ante for his services.
This is exactly why the Yankees didn’t send mixed signals.
Trish, the ultimatum Cashman presented was the perfect strategy. Boras had to be told that the Yankees weren’t going to be used again to drive Arod’s price up. Its about time someone in the front office took a hard stand, since Boras has always used the Yankees like this. If it hurt Arods feelings, too effing bad.
Forget about Cabrera from the Marlins.
The Yanks need to obtain Garrett Atkins from the Colorado Rockies.
Great production for a 27 year old.
What would it take to bring him to the Big Apple?
These are the numbers Girardi wore in the majors:
http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....=girarjo01
Of those, the only one he wore elsewhere and isn’t already retired by the Yanks is #27. They don’t have the number he wore with Florida, though (on the Florida Marlins Managers page, his is the only one that’s missing); I can’t remember that one either.
Gary, would you rather have Atkins than Cabrera? Miggy would be more expensive but maybe not by too much. Colorado seems high on him and rejected offers in the past.
Anyone watching the Nets game?
pat: what I meant was that they did not get rid of contract in order to become free agents. A-Rod did.
#27 would be perfect – it matches his goal… 27th WS
Are the Yanks bringing back Molina? It seems like Jorge is leaning towards leaving, so they would do well to sign Molina. Even if he ends up just being the backup catcher again, I think he’s a good guy to have…
ChiDave: What makes you think Posada is leading towards leaving?
Betemit can back up catch, right? Or is that Shelley?
“Gabrielle Union Says She Isn’t Dating Derek Jeter – Unfortunately”
Before anyone clamors for Garrett Atkins, check his home/away splits. If memory serves, he hit .349 in Coors field and .254 on the road this season. No thanks. Get Cabrera
ChiDave – ditto… what makes you say Jorge is leaning towards leaving? unless he has said something, I still say it’s 90% he comes back.
Atkins is a terrific 3B with a very decent bat. He also seems to have a good head on his shoulders, quite a contrast from Cabrera who has an absolutely lethal bat, but not much else along with a growing rep as less than dedicated.
I would take Atkins any day. Colorado will be foolish to let him go, until he himself insists on it come free agency.
Then again, Boras has a point. The amount of the Rangers’ subsidy– which actually had closer to $21 million outstanding than $30– was less than the posting fee the Yankees paid for Kei Igawa.
But I wonder if the lady doth protest too much. Perhaps, Boras miscalculated and is now aggravated the Yankees haven’t yielded.
I actually think A-Rod secretly wants to remain in the Bronx. Only he want to have his cake and eat it too. And Boras probably told him he could achieve it for him.
Poor A-Rod, so smart and so obtuse. Evidently, He didn’t learn his lesson from the Texas debacle. Boras’ game only promises the most money, never the ideal location.
A=Rod better hope Moreno musters the money because he can’t possibly want to play another 5 years for a mediocre Giant team, however beautiful SF is.
Rebecca – I’ve read in several places that Posada is actually not very fond of Girardi, and that this fact alone might be enough to make him “open to other offers,” shall we say. Also, unlike Rivera, he has not consistently said throughout his career that he wants to stay a Yankee…which, to me, is supported by the fact that Rivera and his agents have already met with the Yanks; whereas Jorge has not been so quick to come to the table.
I don’t know, maybe if Mo signs soon and Andy decides to come back shortly thereafter (not to mention some encouragement from Jeter), it might influence Jorge to stay. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if he bolted…
P.S. – Duncan or Betemit catching?! Lord help us!!!
Chicago Dave: when they were showing the lists of Yankee who filed for free agency, Molina wasn’t on that list. He was up for free agency at the end of the season. I see that as a plus. I would look at having a good backup as a pro for Jorge staying. If I were him I’d be like “cool, I have a reliable back up. Check in the “Plus” column for Yankees.”
Andrea – Don’t forget about the importance of the Benjamins. I think a nice, fat contract offer from the Mets would mean more to Jorge than having Molina as his backup…
I’m not saying Jorge is a mercenary like A-Rod (heavens no!), but I think, especially in this “uncertain” time, if another team swoops in with a long term deal for great money before the Yanks get around to getting serious with Jorge, he might be swayed.
Chi Dave–Hmm, I see your point, but I do have my doubts the Yankees would have hired Girardi if they did not think that either the whatchamacallit between Posada and Girardi was not insurmountable.
There are a TON of FA catchers next year…
Could we have Molina staring for a year? Or is he solely back-up material?
Rebecca – If Jorge goes, Molina would be my choice to step into the starting catcher’s spot. He’s good defensively and he’s decent with the bat as well. He’ll never be Jorge offensively, but he’s definitely a better option than the majority of FA catchers that are available. Heck, it’s not like Russell Martin is out there for the taking!
Boras is in trouble.
He thought he had ARod sold to the Bostons.
But with Lowell playing so well in the series that was going out the window.
Boras made the announcement before the Red Sox could reach for the phone to say they wouldn’t take him.
Will Boston back out????
That Yankee deal is looking mighty good about now.
It’s not like A-Rod won’t get signed to an obscene contract by someone. However, I think the best we can hope for is that, with the Yanks holding firm to their promise not to negotiate, he will ultimately be forced to “settle” for something about the same or, hopefully, a little less than the Yanks were willing to offer him (with some other club).
Didn’t Girardi really help Posada out when he was coming up?
ARod is headed to Ohio!
http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/
if Jorge leaves, and Molina is the everday catcher….
…does that mean Nieves is the backup?
YanksFanLV: What I’ve heard is Girardi had a problem with Posada’s game calling when he was bench coach. Dunno if it’s true or not, though.
The Dodgers should wise up and hire Mattingly instead of Torre. He will be a much better manager than Torre, who has lost his way.
i swear to god, if cashman and co. cave and negotiate with free agent a-rod, i’m buying a dodgers cap.
Offer arbitration to the chump, and he’ll decline and the Yanks get 2 draft choices…Just sign Aaron Rowland, he’s need more now than ever……Wonder what Andru Jones will be asking after his down year…..Rather have either of them in center and move Melky to right and say avoir to Abreu…..
For inquiring minds …Joe G was #25 on the Marlins …
Go Yankees 2008 !!!
Kasey–you’d probably have plenty of company. Not from me, but enough.
I’m just pissed off that Boras made me apologize to my BoSox fan friend. It was an asinine thing to do in the middle of the WS… Even the BoSox don’t deserve to have to answer questions about ARod while they’re celebrating as WS Champs.
ARod FINALLY got to the WS I guess.
“I actually think A-Rod secretly wants to remain in the Bronx. Only he want to have his cake and eat it too. And Boras probably told him he could achieve it for him.”
Yeah, that’s what I figured at the time. They were expecting the Yankees to freak out about the idea of the hated Red Sox winning the WS and their best player heading out the door at the same time, and start shoveling even more piles of cash at him to keep him around. And now Boras is all ticked off that it didn’t work.
But who knows.
which, to be clear, I just mean that I’m a Yankees fan no matter what, but I do NOT want A-Rod back, not if he doesn’t want to be here, and especially not if he thinks he’s bigger than the game.
Adam: don’t apologize. That move made ARod no longer a Yankee. He’s not your responsibility anymore.
Color me stupid, but what happens, exactly, if/when Cashman offers ARod arbitration?
On D Ball
I think you may be on to something.
Boras is chatting up Boston, LA, Cubs, Mets–not really focusing on one team.
He wants to play for a team where winning the WS is the goal every year? Where his family will be comfortable (enough to look at $40 million mansions)? Who can pay him the most $$$ by far and not even blink?
Let’s say for a minute that ARod is telling the truth, and that he wants to be a Yankee for the remainder of his career. But he also wants control of the process, as does Boras. I think he also expected the fans to go crazy wanting him back. It is totally consistent with his complete obtuseness as a human being.
On the other hand, if you want to go somewhere, you don’t piss off the ownership like he did. At least you go through the motions of negotiating an extension, and give them the time of day. That is the part of this whole exercise that is inexplicable. The only signal that can be sent is that you really hated the NYY. The problem with this interpretation is that he refused to be traded last year. Could it be that he corked his discontent for one year, while lying through his teeth all the time? I find that veru hard to believe.
“Color me stupid, but what happens, exactly, if/when Cashman offers ARod arbitration?”
When, as Cash said they would. A-Rod turns it down. The Yankees get picks.
Okay, right now on Jon Stewart, David Wright basically said he’d move to accomodate A-Rod.
And Stewart is RIPPING A-Rod.
Andrea-
I didn’t apologize too much. Just think if ARod landed in Boston and we just won the world series…. I took the high road I guess.
If Cash offers him arbitration, then ARod will deny and whatever team he signs with gvives up draft picks to NYY.
Ok, let me rephrase–I meant, in theory, what would happen if he DIDN’T turn it down? how would that work?
I know draft picks when he does refuse. Draft picks good.
I just think it was a stupid move by Boras. What did it accomplish? Did he really think the Yanks would panic and put up $300 mil the next day? Seems like he got too big for his britches, cuz he basically ticked off all of baseball. Now teams are thinking “we have to pay $300 mil AND sell our team’s soul to get ARod.”
Doesn’t seem like a good gamble to me. All he did was piss everyone off, not just the Yanks.
Andrea-
I suppose he’d have an arbitration hearing and be rewarded industry standard pay (far less than he’s getting) for his numbers and come back with his tail between his legs. Although, I for one would embrace him as a true Yankee if he did that. Cut his own pay, and reduce his own stature to play for a winner…….nah that aint happening.
I’d say it’s a lot more likely hell will freeze over.
Well gee Mr Bora$$, Andy, Jorge, and Mo have earned respect – something your little superstar wouldn’t know if it smacked him in the face.
“I just think it was a stupid move by Boras. What did it accomplish? ”
He either thought (or still thinks) that the Yanks will cave and negotiate with him. And/or he wanted to get the Sox management to be aware that ARod would be on the market before they started negotiating with Lowell.
has anyone ever said yes to arbitration? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it…that’s why I didn’t know what happened if someone did. If they did, they weren’t a very high profile player, at least, I suppose.
“if another team swoops in with a long term deal for great money before the Yanks get around to getting serious with Jorge, he might be swayed.”
Wow, that’s certainly not going to happen. He might choose to leave, but it won’t be because he was too low on the yanks’ priority list. They’ve contacted his agents already. Just because we haven’t heard about talks just means that Jorge’s not ready to come to the table yet.
“If they did, they weren’t a very high profile player, at least, I suppose.”
Soriano did, in the 05-06 offseason. Teams try REALLY hard not to get to arbitration, partly because it’s a bit of a crapshoot, and also because it generally creates negative feelings between the player and the organization. It’s more common with players who aren’t eligible for free agency.
Alex is just someone who is difficult to champion for. There’s something that’s just not quite right.
And as for the phony fan discussion from the last thread, I defy you to find a post where I said I Love Alex and we have to have him back at all cost. I always said that I’d love to have Alex (and his production) back, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
There are plenty of us here who have bitten our tongue the last 18 months (except Annie Savoy lol) about Alex. The two Toronto incidents were absolutely embarassing and now we don’t have to deal with that kind of childish crap anymore. Now that Alex has shown his true colors we are getting the satisfaction that we were absolutely correct about his character.
Alex is a great player and best wishes to him, but most of us here are Yankee fans and we cheer for the Yankees. If Alex comes back, I’ll cheer for him because he’s a Yankee. That doesn’t mean I have to like him or champion for him. That doesn’t make us hypocrites, it makes us fans because we cheer for the uniform.
whozat: hmm. not sure why I wouldn’t have heard of Soriano. I guess since he was doing the Texas/NL thing I wasn’t paying much attention. I guess sometimes I’m all wrapped up in the Yankee universe!
good point mel, I’m not gonna lie I want him back just not at Bor-RRRRRat’s price
If the Mets signed A-Rod for 3B, what do you think of Hughes for David Wright straight up? I think it’d be a trade benefical to both teams.
There’s no room for Wright at 1B with Carlos Delgado there making an untradeable $20M this year or guarantee Wright will be at least status quo at 2B or RF. No way the Mets are trading Reyes. The 2008 Mets rotation after this trade would be Pedro/ Perez/ Maine/ Hughes/ El Duque, Pelfrey, or Humber. If no Hughes, what guarantee is there that Perez and Maine will be as good as or better than they were this year? They had their breakout years in the same year. If either sucks, the 2008 Mets are going nowhere with or without A-Rod or Wright. Enter Hughes who’s better than anyone the Mets have in their farm system. What free agent starter is better than Hughes? Glavine most likely isn’t coming back. If Hughes sucks, A-Rod at 3B and cleanup and (a re-signed) Castillo at 2B with Gotay and I guess Easley backing him up would make up for that. Hughes would have 5 years under contract with the Mets to be that ace or #2. If Hughes wins 18-20 games, it’s an great trade cuz the Mets would have a better player than Wright at 3B and an ace/#2.
A-Rod 3B, Castillo 2B, Hughes > Wright 3B, Castillo 2B, a Mets rotation of Pedro/ Perez/ Maine/ El Duque/ Pelfrey or Humber.
Delgado could return to 2006 form or be somewhere between his 2006 and 2007 protected by A-Rod, so getting A-Rod could be like getting a better Delgado who’s really done if he’s the same as or worse than he was in 2007 with A-Rod protecting him.
Expected:
A-Rod minimum 45 HR, 140 RBI batting cleanup for the Mets
(Reyes/ Castillo/ Delgado/ A-Rod/ Beltran/ Alou/ Milledge/
LoDuca/ Pitcher).
Wright minimum 35 HR, 120 RBI batting cleanup for the Yanks
(Damon/ Jeter/ Abreu/ Wright/ Matsui/ Posada/ Cano/ Giambi/
Cabrera).
Castillo minimum .285 BA, .370 OBP with good defense.
The key is Hughes. I easily see him posting 18-20 wins and a below 3 ERA in the league with no DH and the pitcher batting thus a far weaker 7-8-9 batting order.
I’d rather have Wright at 3B and cleanup for only $67.5M through 2013 and probably for at least the next decade and a rotation of Pettitte/ Wang/ Chamberlain/ Mussina/ Kennedy than Lowell or some flunkie/ unknown at 3B for who knows how long and a Pettitte/ Wang/ Hughes/ Chamberlain/ Kennedy rotation. Great rotation and a solid 1-3, 5-7 batting order, but where’s the great cleanup hitter? Hughes is no more of a lock to make it than Chamberlain and Kennedy who I think are better than him. Joba certainly is.
I can tell you why ARod opted out.
He got what he wanted – New York LOVE.
All those chants of MVP and ovations fulfilled his ultimate goal. He got the honey, no he is out to get the money and start his new conquest and try to win over a new set of fans.
Even if the Yankees went against their word and negotiated, he wouldn’t come back. He is going to go to another large market team and start his next quest for love. You better believe he is looking at Boston and Boston is looking right back.
The Mets aren’t getting rid of David Wright.
“If the Mets signed A-Rod for 3B, what do you think of Hughes for David Wright straight up? I think it’d be a trade benefical to both teams.”
I think I would break a bunch of things.
I can’t believe I’m going to write this, but Boras actually has a point. The Yankees knew Arod had this opt out when they obtained him and it was a contractual right he bargained for with Texas.
All of the Yankee higher ups have stated they are not surprised by his opting out and fully expected him to do this.
So it makes me wonder, why is it any different?
Yes, they had a deal in place that he opted out from, but that deal wasn’t set in stone in the first place due to the opt out clause. The Yankees had to know when they traded Soriano for him that they were only guaranteed 4 seasons of Arod with the deal they were obtaining.
While it’s reprehensible of Arod not to even take a meeting with the Yanks and that pretty much shows me he did not want to stay a Yankee, the truth is he is still a free agent just like Mo and Posada.
It’s definitely not cool that he could have stayed in the deal, let the Yankees keep the Texas money and then still got the fat extension, but he earned the right to go free agent and the Yankees apparently knew this was coming.
I see Boras’ point.
I don’t agree with their tactics at all though and to me it was a punkish hostile exit that did more to hurt his clients reputation than anything.
Now, it’s good riddance as far as I’m concerned. But from a business perspective, Boras does have a point as poorly communicated as he has implemented.
We all think he should have loyalty to the Yankees and that should have factored into things. We’re right to think that.
Apparently, loyalty meant nothing to Arod.
I said in an earlier post I can totally see Boras come back to the Yanks at some point and offer a “Yankee discount”. I know some of you have said why would he do that, but he did it once with Beltran.
The problem is, it’s already too late for that move. The Yankees will have a new 3b in the next 2 weeks and they will have moved on and Cash will just laugh at Boras when tries to convince other teams that the Yankees are still in it.
A couple of years ago another Bor-ass client was Kevin Millwood with the Braves at the time. He filed for free agency and saw he was’nt getting any offers that would exceed what he knew he could get in arbitration-10 mil-so he accepted and the Braves had to take him back for the year. I remember the GM was pissed at the time because he only offered arbitration to get the draft picks and then got stuck with the player he did’nt want at a price he did’nt want to pay. Bor-ass knows this and would do it again in a heartbeat if he does’nt get a good enough offer. Alex would come back for a year and try his luck next free agency. Millwood did and then got the big contract from Bor-ass fav Hicks in Texas.
The Mets would never trade David Wright. He’s their Jeter. The fact that he would okay a position move shows how dedicated he is to winning.
I can’t see Arod staying in NY after the way his opt out was handled. I think he’ll want to get as far away from here as possible since Yankee fans will harass him when they see him walking around 5th avenue.
Someone mentioned Shelley as an option at catcher a while ago. Shelley’s so tough, he would not need any equipment to catch. No mask, no chest protector, no shinguards, no nothing!!
Boras has no point. He pretends the subsidy doesn’t exist. Duh. It does.
I don’t even have enough energy to fuss about Boras and A-Rod anymore. I wish that the two of them would just go away. The whole situation makes me VERY tired.
I would do Hughes for Wright. Works for both teams. Yanks have a lot of pitching coming up and losing Hughes wouldn’t kill the Yanks in any way. Getting Wright would benefit them a lot more than keeping Hughes, who honestly wasn’t living up to the hype. Hughes would do better in the NL anyway and Wright would fit right in with the Yankees.
I don’t know if the Mets would do it though. Wright is the face of the Mets. He is the Jeter of the Mets. He is the diet coke of evil.
Andrea-Ummm learn to read. I said if the Mets signed A-Rod, what do you think of Hughes for Wright? You wouldn’t make the trade would suffice, but a reason/ reasons why would be nice since you don’t work for the Mets. Where does Wright play if A-Rod comes, 2B or RF? What if that doesn’t work out? What if he turns into a .267, 15 HR, 73 pile of crap there? A-Rod isn’t moving.
whoa-You’d break things if the Yanks gave up Hughes for the second best 3B in M.L.B. behind A-Rod? Really? You’ll be breaking things if Lowell remains with Boston and Betemit, Crede, Beltre, or ??? is the 2008 Yanks starting 3B. You’ll definitely be breaking things if the Yanks get Lowell and he reverts to 2005 crap or 2006 mediocrity.
G.Love-Wright is their Jeter? Yeah, A-Rod at 3B and Castillo at 2B with Hughes in the rotation really sucks compared to Wright at 3B, Castillo at 2B, and who knows who in the backend of the rotation. Get a grip. A-Rod 3B and Wright 2B is better you say? What if A-Rod doesn’t sign with the Mets?
When A-Rod posts 50 HR and 150 RBI for the Mets, people will forget about Wright like they forgot about Piazza once Wright came along and took his crown. Add Hughes going 18-6 with a 2.83 ERA or some shit next year and who cares about Wright?
J-Dawg,Your soooooo funnnnny!I hope shelly gets more playtime next season,he’s a sparkplug for sure.
The company I work for is based in SoCal and they are big Angels fans. One of the guys made me laugh today when he said the Rockies were thrilled Boras took the attention away from them being swept. I didn’t watch the game but he said that Buck and McCarver went on a rant about how underpaid Terry Francona is so A-Rod opting out fit in with the theme of the program that millionaires need raises too just like us working guys.
I wouldn’t do Hughes for Wright, because I think Hughes will be really good.
He came up too soon, and was injured, so he was pitching in August like it was April, but he did get better (almost) every start. With a full off season of conditioning, I’m not sure he is in the tradeable category.
This isn’t to say David Wright wouldn’t be a great catch, but the Mets would never give him up. He is their face, so much more than even Reyes.
I hope the Yankees never bring a selfcentered,non team player like Alex to the bronx again.When he comes back for the allstar game,the Yankees fan should not boo,he’s expecting that to happen.It’s more attention ,something he craves.Selence is golden!
Did anyone just see Papelbon on Letterman? He was actually pretty funny. Letterman asked if he would like A-Rod to play for Boston. He said he loves playing with Lowell and fans may not be so thrilled with A-Rod, but he would love it so he wouldn’t have to pitch to him anymore.
Folks, think about it:
A-Rod signs with the Mets and takes over 3B. Even if Wright took over 2B, they still need starting pitching with the uncertainty of Pedro/Perez/Maine, that being Pedro is old and past his prime, and hasn’t pitched a full season since his mediocre 2005 and the other two had their breakout years in the same year. Since when are Perez and Maine locks to repeat or better their 2007s?
They trade Wright for Hughes. They lose nothing at 3B with A-Rod. Luis Castillo is a veteran career .294 BA/ .368 OBP hitter and fundamentally sound player. Reyes/ Castillo/ Delgado is a fine 1-3 batting order in front of A-Rod batting cleanup. They upgrade their rotation and could still go after someone via trade. If they wanted to backup Hughes, they could take a one-year flyer on Bartolo Colon who’s a pal of Pedro -Pedro could recruit him. Pedro/ Perez/ Colon/ Maine/ Hughes w/ Pelfrey, Humber, and El Duque as plenty of backup and tradebait. A-Rod protecting Delgado could rejuvenate Delgado.
Oh wait, this blog is all about people who don’t work for the Mets saying the Mets would never trade Wright, Wright is the face of the Mets, and blah blah blah.
If Tom Seaver in his prime could be traded after he helped the Mets win their first World Series, David Wright could be traded.
Lastly:
Reyes/Castillo/Delgado/A-Rod/Beltran/Alou/Milledge/LoDuca/P
That lineup sucks? Get a grip/ clue/ life.
“I hope the Yankees never bring a selfcentered,non team player like Alex to the bronx again.”
Who exactly are the altruists?
Pat see everybody knows he was a drag on this team in postseason,beantown’s not stupid. Bawston dirt dogs have a good thing going and don’t want his Greatness around,smart.
what makes Alex selfish? That he didn’t thank Hank for the paltry $28m he offered him…..if that???????? Boras is right …A Rod has every right to file for Free Agency…..if the Yanks want him, then they should pay, and PAY BIG time. They paid Clemens ridiculous $..they paid Igawa and Pavano beyond ridiculous $.The Yanks are spinning this one way too hard. It’s hard to feel sorry for the Steinbrenners…..they screw everybody….and they have screwed the fans the last 7 yrs with teams that draw 4M in attendance but fall flat as a pancake when it counts in the post season. Get some pitching damn it!!
anybody that thinks the Mets are going to send david wright to the Yankees is smoking something outof their ass. Never happen. Never.
Actually I didn’t mind A-Rod opting out in the WS clincher game. Gotta love the balls to poke his finger in the Red Sox eye. He owes Colorado and MLB an apology, yes. Should have at least negotiated and said no. I may have said I’m actually more bothered by Giambi still being in the lineup and Pavano still being on the payroll.
But Boras’ point of view about A-Rod being wronged by not being equally entitled to free agency is coming across like “C’mon Cashman, what’s another 21.3 million dollars between friends?” Now that bugs me.
Boras would have to expect that $21.3M to be lopped off any offer (which won’t be made) if the Yanks were to talk to free agent A-Rod, which they won’t. “C’mon Boras … what’s 3 million per year over 7 years between friends?” WHat do y’all think he’d say to that?
And who’s to say some of the money Texas is suddenly saving won’t covertly make it back into the hands of Boras-Rod for a little double-dipping action?
Side note: As if none of that posting fee for Matsuzaka could be secretly diverted back to him or the Sox for making sure both sides closed a deal withing a month of his rights being awarded.
Anyhow, Boras and everyone else knows Posada & Rivera don’t have that salary supplement loss factored in. Let him take a pay cut somewhere else. The degree of absurdity of Boras’ viewpoint will soon become clear when we all find out what kind of a deal he’s expecting for A-Rod.
We need Posada.
The last thing we need is another superstar at 3rd. Screw that. Miguel Cabrera? No thanks. Overweight and lazy, big ego. Not worth it.
Get a team player that will take his hacks (say 20hr 90rbi 290avg). We had by far the best offense last season, we dont need to replace all the offense AROD gave us to still be the best offense. The best way to improve this club is to improve the bullpen and be sure our starting pitching is doing well (get pettitte back and keep hughes/joba/ipk on the right track).
Remember when Roger Clemens said him and George talked about some specific reason why he was going to come back and he’d eventually tell us?
Anyone know what it is? Could it be pitching coach? Him and Eiland would be amazing for the kids.
ORORO,
The Yankees falling flat in the post season is the Steinbrenners fault? Uh, what planet are you from?
Arod obviously had zero plans to stay with the Yanks. If he did I honestly do not think every last dollar would mean everything to him. I do not think he and Bor-ASS expect to get any more then $30m a year from any other team so he will take the deal but somewhere else…unless maybe the Giants since they are last place and would probably fall into the trap like they did with the pathetic Zito deal. $30m/8 years should be plenty to keep any player especially if they “claim” this is where they want to be. He never meet with Cash, didnt return calls, didnt even wait the 10 days after the WS, came up with the bull about Mo and Posada and the Yanks maybe not being competitive. Instead he jumped to free agency and he showed the Yanks zero respect. I do think Bor-ASS has him on a leash and he told him dont worry they will be involved, and probably never even told Arod that the Yanks wanted to meet with him but I dont blame Bor-ASS 100%. If Arod wanted to be here then he would of said the money is enough, forget it this where I want to be dont opt out. You know there have been a couple of players who actually opened there mouths to Bor-ASS and called the shots, $30m was plenty he obviously had no plan to stay. He talked great about the Angels all year and I would bet they already have a deal and he ends up there, and then Moreno will be cheap for the next 8 years and wont spend money on anyone else.
MBF,
Yes we do need Posada but for a maximum 3 year deal. If the Mets offer him obcene money for 4 years, let him go and get the draftt picks. Jose Molina with Cervelli backing up will be OK. It is nice to have offense out of your catcher, however I would rather have a defensive catcher who calls a good game and handles pitchers very well. Posada will be 37 and will never repeat this year’s production. I would still sign him for 3 years given the loss of offense with A-Rod’s departure.
ORORO:
$30m is not enough for Arod? That is almost $10m more then any other player makes. Then what is enough $40m? That is absolutely crazy to pay 1 player, I dont care how good he is…in the regular season.
the Steinbrenners philosophy of buying merceneray stars for all positions all on the field has been a failure (although entertaining). Giambi/Damon/Matsui(looking tired), Pavano, Wright/Igawa/last years Mussina deal/Clemens, etc etc…they put out a team that draws attendance but doesn’t have the legs to finish.
Rebecca
Thank you for answering my question, but you have to be kidding me with your unsurety that “he is in the tradeable category”. He is one of the Yankees farm system jewels and not only that, an M.L.B. ready one. EVERY team in baseball would want him (yes, even the Red Sox). Also why would the Mets “never” trade Wright? Betcha millions of Mets fans said the Mets would never trade Seaver or Dykstra or let go of Gooden and Strawberry (ALL Mets royalty). Strawberry’s final year with the Mets was his finest and the Mets let him go. History shows they’ve traded or let go of guys you’d never think would leave. I think many of you underestimate the implications of A-Rod becoming the Mets’ 3B. Not only he better produce, but Wright better keep producing at 2B. That’s alot of personal pressure for a team to deal with.
The Mets are already starting in with Wright for no good reason whatsoever by telling him to shut up when he wants to embrace the prospect of A-Rod as a Met. What’s that all about? It’s not tampering.
Hughes has exactly 13 career M.L.B. starts and quite frankly, isn’t as good as Joba. He may not be as good as Wang who has two full seasons of 19 wins a season under his belt. It’s all about results and why people kill Wang for two bad starts in this year’s A.L.D.S., the 2006-07 Yanks don’t have a pot to piss in without him. Hughes may not even be as good as Kennedy. Thanks to Torre, the Yanks will have to wait another year to see how Hughes fares in a postseason start.
Wright took over 3B in 2004 and has had three solid full seasons since including an M.V.P.-like 2007 and would automatically be the best all-around hitter on the team.
Bottom line is the Mets don’t need Wright with A-Rod at 3B and Castillo at 2B. They need pitching. The Yanks have plenty of it and need a huge bat.
Captain I’m not saying it’s not crazy to ask for $40M/30M, but when they offer Clemens $28 (prorated) they deserve to be held for a ransom by AROD, the best player on the field.
Hughes for Wright? Did I have too much wine, or did someone really say that?
Mets would neve trade Wright to the Yanks because the Wilpons will never do business with the Steinbrenners.
ORORO
Never say never when the Mets traded Tom Seaver, dumba ss.
Alot of people who work for the Mets front office on here.
Hughes–
Yes, every team is certainly interested in Hughes, but I think we need to at least see him pitch a full season before we start thinking ‘okay, we definitley need to trade him’.
Remember, Hughes wasn’t healthy most of the year; I’m no doctor or medical person, but I have a feeling that Hughes next year will show everyone why he was so highly touted in the first place.
I’m not as familiar with Mets history as the rest of you guys are, and I guess no player really is untradable, but for the Mets to trade Wright would be a bit like the Yankees trading Jeter or Bernie or Paulie. It’s not like the Yankees are, I don’t know, the Texas Rangers who would almost never play the Mets except in the World Series; the Yankees are the Mets cross-town rivals.
When’s the last time the Yankees made a trade, a straight up trade, not a FA signing, with the Red Sox?
different front office (and a bad one that traded Seaver). Wright to the Yanks will never happen. Maybe another team…never to the Yanks.
Why would the Yanks trade pitching for hitting? Hasn’t anyone realized that you win with pitching not hitting??? The Yanks finally have 2 maybe 3 really good prospects and people want to trade them away already. This is how they got into the trouble that they were in. Hughes has only pitched what less then 15 major league games and that after a big injury and we already claim to know what kind of pitcher he is going to be. Good thing no one did that to Randy Johnson or Clemens. For Santana you would think about it but for another big bopper….absolutely not!!!!
PhilHughes is a stud……People get real here…..You do remember a no hitter through 7….Every start from mid August was better than the last…..Did he not overwhelm Cleveland in October….And Kennedy will ba Catfish Hunter type pitcher….Extrodinary control, inside and outside,up and down…..Two years from now, they could very well have the best rotation in MLB…Wang will be a 4 by then…Pitching is not their real issue…Position players yes…..
This isn’t rotisserie baseball. The Yankees need to build their team around young pitching. That means Hughes and Joba. So take your dumb trade ideas and save them for your fantasy…um….league, or whatever it is.
Veto to any deal that involves trading away our young pitching unless it’s for other relatively young pitching (Johan). I also don’t really like the idea of trading away Melky unless again, it’s for pitching. Big bats haven’t won us anything recently. I’d much rather have an above-average offense and good pitching than mediocre to bad pitching with the best offense, which is what we’ve had.
And if we traded away Hughes now after these years of him being so highly valued and untouchable it’ll be kinda odd.
i thought boras was supposed to be smart… from what i recall from reading in the new yorker he came from humble roots and rose up the ranks.. seems he’s lost touch of himself here.. whiny and greedy… This reeks of a spoiled child.. Arod? And the enabling father, Boras?
He was destined to become a journeyman minor leaguer…His real big shot that woke up everyone was the Kevin Brown deal…..He suckered the Dodgers into bidding against themselves..There was no other team….Then came the A-Rod deal in December 2000…..
“Hasn’t anyone realized that you win with pitching not hitting??? ”
Actually, you win with both.
If the Yanks play Betemit, Phillips and Minky at the corners most of the time next season, they’re dead no matter how well the young studs pitch.
Do they need to trade for Miguel Cabrera? No. But, they do need to bring ~.800 OPS in for each of the corners, whether by trade or signing. It might be a platoon or something, but they need that kind of production. If Crede doesn’t get a contract with the ChiSox, I’d look at him if they’re satisfied that his back is ok. If he can get back to near his 2006 form, that’d be a big win. Someone Millar-ish at 1B, and then Betemit providing the lefty half of a platoon at the corners would be good production, I think. Unless Matsui takes to 1B like a fish to water or something.
I don’t want to trade any of the big three young Yankee pitchers for anyone other than Johan Santana, provided that he signs an extension. Any of their other young pitchers (Clippard, Ohlendorf, Sanchez) I’d probably move in a deal for a decent corner bat that’s not too old.
All I hear from Boras and A-Rod is:
“WAHHHH WAHHHHH we F’ed up and no one likes us WAHHH”
I swear, they may be the two biggest babies in professional sports.
It looks like Torre could be reunited with his buddy Wells, have fun!!
The hiring of Torre could help lure free-agent pitcher David Wells back to the Dodgers for another season, Wells’ agent, Gregg Clifton, said.
“He would love to come back,” Clifton said of Wells. “He enjoyed his time with them immensely. David had a lot of success under Joe and I don’t think Joe coming back to the Dodgers is any impediment.”
“Andrea-Ummm learn to read. I said if the Mets signed A-Rod, what do you think of Hughes for Wright?”
I know what you said, and the Mets would never get rid of Wright. And I wouldn’t trade Hughes for Wright. I think Hughes will be worth more than Wright, and I think pitching is worth more than bats.
Joe Girardi’s new uniform number will be #27. Awesome.
mel: that’s appropriate!
I guess he didn’t want to try and trade with Giambi for his old number 25.
First, SJ44 -
Thanks for your answer to my age question in the prior post.
Regarding David Wright being traded by the Mets. If the Mets do that, they are absolutely and certifiably insane as an organization. He is their best asset. He is a top quality player who is media-friendly and fan-friendly. As someone said earlier, he is their Derek Jeter. Jose Reyes may be the most exciting young player in the game because of his speed, but David Wright is the guy in front of the microphone most of the time. (Actually, he’s even better than Derek Jeter in that respect.)
The absolute last on ARod. You learn that “never” never means “never” in business/baseball. So, if the Yankees reverse their stance due to favorable circumstances, I would not be shocked. Mildy surprised, maybe, but not shocked. I don’t think that will happen, though. But if it does, and somehow ARod shows up at third base for the Yankees in the spring training, I’m not going to root against the guy, because it’s counterproductive. The ultimate goal for the team and for the fans is to win. I won’t like him, but I’ll root for him. And lastly, regarding playing at Yankee Stadium in next year’s AllStar game, I, too, would not be suprised if he decided not to attend. When’s his new baby due, anyway???? And, if it’s around the AllStar game, can we include that fact in the ultimate conspiracy of ARod knowing that he was going to opt-out 2 months before the season ended???? (I’m j/k here, folks!)
Well done. We survived another night in the Yankee Winter of Discontent. And the blog didn’t crash. Outstanding. One day at a time, my brothers and sisters.
whozat November 1st, 2007 at 1:33 am is right on. Rational, sensible and a do-able plan.
And please don’t fret over the Pay-Rod thing. We are moving on and so is he. Although I have to admit that a small piece of me is scared by the possibility of A-Rod pulling the Kevin Millwood arbitration boomerang “gotcha” scenario, I just don’t see that happening.
Last night being Halloween, however, I had this scary thought: Some idiot owner not named Steinbrenner ponies up for another long term contract for Putz-Rod this year. There will be an opt out clause for the player, of course, timed to coincide with his approach to 650 and 700 HR. Pay-Rod will get one last opportunity to extort, er, “test the market.” Nobody thinks much of it at the time. But a few years later A-Rod opts out again and that’s when…cue the scary music and a loud scream… A-Rod returns to the Yankees as a very expensive DH.
Pete,
Some people said that the Met might be interested in A-Rod,
In your opinion, what the odd is?
If I own a team, I wouldn’t like to have player that can only increase ticket sales without increasing the possibility to win division,League titles and, above all, world series.
I can almost see the Yankees talking to a rod and justifying it by saying they didn’t get a chance before the opt out. But my number 13 shirts and jerseys will stay in a bag in my closet.
I like a previous posters suggestion that it should be 13!! Someone just called fan to say Joe should wear 13!! Espically after what Borass said about MO!!!
* “That’s a characterization that, when you look at the data, is frankly inaccurate,” Boras said. “If you look at Alex’s first season in New York, I believe he was 7-for-16 with two home runs and five RBIs going into Game 4 in Boston.
“The brilliant Mariano Rivera, probably the only flaw he’s made in a historic career over the postseason, if he got those three outs (in the ninth inning of Game 4), Alex would have been in the World Series and he would have been held to have a great postseason.
“When you look at his records with Seattle – and even this year – you’re talking about a player whose postseason records are really up there with many of the superstars of the game.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....r_at_.html
This should be the straw. You point a finger at Mo for Alex’s post season failures!!
Doesn’t look like codes are working
#27 for Joe is cool, i wonder if he’ll change to #28 after that?
Hey, it’s a new day, a new month, a brand new off-season. Remember last spring when Peter wanted to have a day where there was no mention of a certain future HOF 3d Baseman, or wanted him only referred to as “Underdog” or something like that? Well, the guy still played for the Yankees then, but he doesn’t now. We have a vacancy at 3rd among other pressing off-season issues for the team, and some significant new-found payroll capacity. I propose that we focus on the future (which I think is bright) keep our mention of a certain future HOF 3rd baseman’s bizarre business approach in perspective (which I think means not too much to the Yankees anymore, as they aren’t doing business with him) and, to help us keep to this healthy track, we adopt Peter’s proposed nomenclature (which is funnier now than ever). Bye-bye to UDog! Let’s move on!
Why do I think Boras may have overplayed his hand here?
Unless he has a sure thing in the pocket which is entirely possible of course.
What team will go to 28+ let alone 30?
Open Letter to Alex.
Alex you must be the biggest moron on the face of the earth. You thru your agent are whining that the Yankees don’t want to talk to you, but will negotiate with the other free agents, in Mo and Jorge. Do you not realize that there is a big difference between having a contract and not having one?
You had 3 choices to make at the end of the season, 1 keep the contract as is, 2 talk to the Yankees and extend the current contract ( so the Yankees wouldn’t lose the subsidy from Texas) or 3 the one you took, opt out and turn your back on the greatest franchise in baseball.
Alex do you realize you ruined your chance of being listed with the greatest Yankees that ever played? Instead you chase the ole’ mighty dollar. And you are trying to play the hard working Yankee fans for fools. I cannot wait for you to return to the stadium in another uniform you will hear booing like you’ve never heard before, not when you returned to Seattle, not when you returned to Texas, and certainly not when you played in Fenway. Yankee fans don’t like to be made fools of, and you played us. You played us all year long when you said you loved NY. I hope you enjoy your ring less career. And I hope you enjoy the label that you will now live with as a player that just went for the money.
Enjoy!
You people are nuts.
Have you not been watching Cashman the past 3 years?
What makes you think he’d start trading his top level prospects let alone top level pitching??
http://www.projo.com/redsox/co.....b86a4.html
“RED SOX They are baseball’s new gold standard, the organization everyone now aspires to be. Once, it was the Yankees.”
the above statement is what concerns me most about the yankees.. arod is gone. ok ,there’s 30 million to replace his production. that’s doable, but is the yankee organization itself the best in the business? it’s not easy to quantify how good an organization is. there are stats on players. we can compare numbers pretty easily. player analysis is fairly objective because of these stats.
but management of a team isn’t measured by any objective standard. winning a championship is sometimes an indicator of good management ,but not always. sometimes the best management is laying down a base that will pay off later,but nothing shows in the short run. big market teams can be poorly run , but have so much cash coming in that they can still field a competitive team.
i believe this is the case with the yankees. so much drama and on going baseball soap operas would seem to be an indication of poor management or at the least the absence of excellent management.
the yankees seem to have the challenge of winning without being the best run organization. can they do it? with girardi at the helm, it’s entirely possible. look at how well he did with a 20 million dollar payroll. the yankees can win in 2008, but it doesn’t look like it will be because they are the best organization.
my off the cuff ranking of best run organizations:
red sox
cleveland
detroit
minnesota
oakland
Randy 1 –
No doubt the Red Sox have done something right in the last year to go from 3rd place in the division to a world championship. But I still wouldn’t jump to conclusions. With all the change going on in the Yankees right now, it’s difficult to really assess how they’re being run. As you yourself said, sometimes an organization is laying down a base that will pay off in the future. The Yankees are doing this while still contending. They must be doing something right.
I feel like this. Yankee fans are too close to be objective about their own team. You can garner information about other teams, and objectively judge them. But what you don’t have is the emotional distraction. I would be willing to bet that there are Oakland A’s fans and Minnesota Twins fans are not quite so sure that their organizations know what they are doing, since they always seem to let their best players go, and don’t have much to show for their baseball/business philosophy.
It’s like your own family versus the family down the street. From the outside looking in, that family seems to have it all together, while you know the problems within your own. But that family down the street is saying the same things about your family that you are about theirs. You cannot be objective about that which you love. At the very least, it’s extremely difficult.
randyI
I believe you are right that the NYY were not a well run organization. I believe the philosophy was throw $$ at anything and the wins will come. The two factions, Tampa and NY, were not in sync and bad decisions were made.
That philosophy has changed over the last couple of years coiciding with Cashman getting more control as GM and George being less involved as an owner. I also think the realization of the sized bite from the luxury tax and the inability to get decent pitchers through free agency, has made the Yankees do some soul searching and a re-thinking on how to build a team and sustain the growth.
Right now with the pieces that are in place, I believe that the Yankees have the potential to be the best run organization,, only time will tell if the Yankees brass has the stomach for patience.
Possible conspiracy theory:
Arod/Boras had a deal with Hicks to opt out to facilitate the trade to the Yanks — on paper Hicks’ subsidy seemed larger that it would end up being.
Arod/Boras were very nervous that immediately after the World Series ended the Yanks would overwhelm them with an extension offer that they knew would be greater than they were likely to receive on the open market.
Arod/Boras were afraid that they might be forced to admit this “side deal” if they rejected this formal offer only to accept a smaller offer from the Yankees later.
Arod/Boras assumed that the Yanks would just do the rational thing and announce that their offer would be reduced by the amount of the prior subsidy they lost by Arod opting out.
Thoughts?
A Red Sox slanted newspaper calling the Red Sox the Gold Standard Organization. No surprise there.
Didn’t this “gold standard” organization miss the playoffs last year?
What could the Yankees have done differently with Arod? He didn’t want to talk to them.
Give him 40, 50, 60 million? Will that make him hit in the post-season, conduct himself like a functional adult off the field, and keep the in house dramas to a minimum?
At some point, no player, not even Arod, is worth this kind of long term committment. Its still a team game. Give me a good TEAM and let somebody else handle one great individual player.
What are the Red Sox doing differently from the Yankees? Nothing. They are building a team from the pitching staff out…..like the Yankees are doing, and are incorporating younger players into the mix……..like the Yankees are doing.
You know what they do have going for them that the Yankees do not? Two of their best players, Beckett and Ortiz, took under market multi-year contracts so they can continue to attract talent. Their COMBINED salaries are 24 million per season.
Now tell me, who would you rather have, Arod at 30+ million a year or Beckett AND Ortiz at 24 million?
Does anybody see Arod taking an undermarket contract to remain with the Yankees? No chance.
The Yankees just finished making the playoffs 12 years in a row. NOBODY in baseball has that streak. Their farm system is in the Top 6 in the game and their young pitching talent is thought to be the best in the game by baseball people.
They are trying to do the impossible…..reload AND remain competitive at the same time. So far, that’s happening.
I hardly think they are out of the mix because Arod isn’t coming back.
I don’t know how you can catagorize teams like Minnesota and Oakland above the Yankees when neither team can keep their own players and make the playoffs on a steady basis.
The Yankees are fine and going in the right direction. Except, of course for folks who wince everytime they don’t overpay for a player.
EVERY team in baseball makes mistakes in personnel. You think the Red Sox are happy with the money they spent on JD Drew? The key is to not repeat your mistakes.
As long as the Yankees stay on the track they are on things will work out.
Boras should shut his trap.
Anyway, I hope the Yankees don’t trade for Johan Santana or some other aging player, even though Santana is 28. There is no need for that. Just go with the youngsters.
“With all the change going on in the Yankees right now, it’s difficult to really assess how they’re being run.”
doreen-
i agree totally. there’s no objective way i know of to measure an organization. the one thing that has to be factored in the rating organizations is the cash flow and assets that an organization has to start with. the yankees have so much cash coming in because of the market they are in that it makes comparison difficult with an organization like the small market twins . the twins organization simply doesn’t have the cash coming in or the existing assets to start with.
i do think the twins organization does more with what they have than the yankees do. cleveland also clearly does more with what they have than the yankees front office does.
the biggest asset the yankees have is us fans and the cash we pour into the coffers. but that doesn’t mean they created us. we’re pretty much a given. not totally, but it would take years of mismanagement to chase us away.
boras now blaming mariano rivera for gay rods post season failures. you can’t make this crap up.
I never considered that Texas had a side deal with Alex and Borass. You might be correct. I always found it strange that they would pay such a large chunck of his contract.
randyI A few thoughts.
First, I have no idea when the Yankees were supposed to have been the best run organization. Certainly there haven’t been many times during the tenure of George Steinbrenner as owner when “well-run” was an appropriate adjective to describe the Yankees organization. I think they won often in spite of the ownership and management. Unless winning is the measure of an organization, in which case your list is suspect.
Second, I question whether turmoil and challenge imply that a club is poorly run. Sometimes turmoil and challenge are necessary, sometimes even beneficial. In any event, shouldn’t an ownership and management team be judged by how they deal rather than what they have to deal with? It seems a fair criticism of the Yankees that they let Joe T twist in the wind, but that did start with George Steinbrenner running his mouth to a reporter (the old Yankees). Working expeditiously to hire a well-qualified successor seems like dealing pretty well.
Which leads to a last thought. Cashman appears to have done a pretty good job dealing in general the last few years, and now Hank and Hal Steinbrenner have taken over for George, who certainly was a lightning rod for organizational criticism over the years (despite his unquestioned drive to win). Maybe the Yankees have an opportunity to move up the list of well-run teams rather than down.
BTW, Scott Boras just needs to shut up now.
Blaming Mariano for Arod’s lack of a post-season legacy?
Really Scott, get a grip.
Your client has ONE post-season RBI in his last 60 AB’s. Bangin’ on Rivera, who may be the greatest post-season performer in baseball history, makes you (and your client by extension) look really, really bad.
Everytime Boras opens his mouth, it makes it much easier for the Yankees to have ZERO regrets in how they handled this entire situation.
Its amazing to me Boras can’t see that.
There is no conspiracy theory here. He has a deal, maybe two, for Arod in his pocket. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t have had him opt out. That’s how he works.
He is just trying to fix a badly mangled PR position after Sunday night’s fiasco.
Sometimes, the best way to fix it is to just shut up.
Clearly, he hasn’t figured that out yet.
“You know what they do have going for them that the Yankees do not? Two of their best players, Beckett and Ortiz, took under market multi-year contracts so they can continue to attract talent. Their COMBINED salaries are 24 million per season.”
sj44-
isn’t signing these two an example of the red sox being a good management. they didn’t wait until their contacts ran out to extend them. unlike the yankees with their core players.
i want to make one thing clear. i dislike the red sox organization intensely. it doesn’t make me happy to say they have a better organization.
to take the red sox /yankee emotion out of it, it’s obvious to me that cleveland is a better run organization than the yankees. where do you rank cleveland with the yankees?
Sj I thought that he had deals in place as well. But I find it strange how he is so bent out of shape that the Yankees have no interest in re-signing him. He doesn’t miss a chance to cry about this or that. Maybe he scared off potential suiters? and is now worried that ALex might not get that 10/300 contract that he thought he would.
The Yankees should come out one last time and say we aren’t going after Alex and will take no more questions on the subject that the book is closed.
The Yankees don’t have to say anything else. All they have to do is sign a 3rd baseman. Or at the very least make overtures to Lowell and Crede.
Wasn’t it pretty recently that the Red Sox were an organizational Days of Our Lives? Theo is in, Theo is out, Manny is going, Manny is back, Manny is allowed to to whatever under the Manny being Manny rule. A deal with the devil that didn’t pass the sniff test for Drew. Then it turned out that the deal wasn’t the only thing about Drew that stank. Way over bid for Matsuzaka, under the guise of sending a message. …
The Red Sox had a great year, and they have acquired some real talent (and traded some great talent away to acquire it.) I do not buy that they are particularly well-run, however.
People banging on Rivera make me really unhappy =(
Beckett was in the last year of his deal with the Marlins when they acquired him. For both players though, they had to agree to under market contracts.
Arod isn’t agreeing to ANYTHING under market. He wants to set the market. He wouldn’t even meet with the Yankees. That tells you all you need to know about his intentions.
Beckett and Ortiz were also younger than Rivera and Posada. It wouldn’t have been smart for the Yankees to engage to multi-year contract talks with either player in the spring.
Rivera was coming off an injury and Posada was a 35 year old catcher. Beckett was 25 and Ortiz 28 when they signed their deals. Completely different situations.
Of all the teams you listed, the Indians are, far and away, the best run organization. They have more scouts and management people interview for other jobs (and get them) than any team in baseball.
That’s a very well run team.
The Yankees are fortunate in the sense that they often can buy their way out of their mistakes. That does have a limit though.
Either way, since 2005, on the scouting and drafting end of the operations, nobody has been better than the Yankees. We are just starting to see the fruits of that labor now with Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy.
There are more players, position players like Austin Jackson, ready to make their move up the ladder.
That can only help the Yankees in the future.
The Yankees are a blue chip stock. There may be market corrections along the way but, its always a stock that will pay dividends in the end.
Moving into the new stadium will only make it a more attractive investment. It will give them even more resources to pour back into the team.
“isn’t signing these two an example of the red sox being a good management.”
No.
” they didn’t wait until their contacts ran out to extend them. unlike the yankees with their core players.
When your “core players” are a 25 year old pitcher with ace stuff and a low 30’s DH, extending them is a no-brainer. When they’re a 35 year old catcher and a 37 year old pitcher, no matter how good they’ve been, it’s a much riskier proposition. It was also cheaper in the Sox’ case…they both got big, big raises, and still it’s only 24 mil combined. If Jorge and Mo get big raises, it’s more like 36 mil combined.
doreen-
when arod opted out to me it was end of story. that’s when i moved on. lowell sounds good to me. with him in the fold , the yankees could also upgrade at first and between lowell and the upgrade at first they’d replace the production they lost with arod.
there is reason for optimism with the yankees with girardi in charge and the fruits of the youth movement coming into play. it’s still not a lock with posada, rivera, and pettitte. but there’s no sense worrying about it until they make their decisions. hopefully they’ll all be back. losing anyone of them will create a big hole. it’s crucial for 2008 that all three come back.
Jennifer,
I don’t know if he is trying to get the Yankees back into it as much as he is trying to spin negative PR (which he and Arod got Sunday night) away from him and onto the Yankees.
Boras needs to find a “bad guy” here because, across the baseball industry, the only bad guys in this are he and his client at the present time. They really ticked off the industry with that stunt Sunday night.
Its funny to me to hear some of his comments about being “concerned” about the future of the Yankees. He knows the Yankees will always be competitive. He’s just trying to deflect negative attention away from he and his client. Unfortunately for him, he’s doing a poor job of it.
The problem with the theory of Arod and Boras coming back to the Yankees and, “taking 30 million off the top of the highest bid” is, you can’t be sure Boras is telling the truth.
Unlike the NFL, which requires free agent offers to be put in writing and sent to the NFL Office, MLB has no such requirements. That means, you have to trust the agent is being honest with the offers he has on the table for a player.
NOBODY trusts Scott Boras in that regard which is why the Yankees wanted to extend him prior to the opt out.
Now that he has opted out, there is no reason for the Yankees to believe anything Boras has to say.
If Arod wants to sign a 5 year contract for 20 million per year, I’m sure he and the Yankees can find common ground. Anything more than that, it ain’t happenin’ with the Yankees.
That’s why I believe he will be a Giant around Mid-December. I don’t envision any scenario in which he can re-kindle things with the Yankees. They both would have to swallow too much pride to do that and that isn’t going to happen.
It didn’t help his cause with Yankee fans but Scott Boras didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. Rivera blew a save that cost the Yankees a trip to the WS. A-Rod carried the Yankees in the beginning of that postseason, the Yanks pitching let them down and no Yankee got the big hit in the last 4 games with the Sox.
If Rivera got the save, Yankees go the World Series and A-Rod doesn’t carry the tag of a great player who never played in a World Series. Ring wearers seem to get a lifetime pass from Yankee fans.
Jeter dating Gabrielle Union? haaaaaaaaa….that’s laughable. Jeter isn’t dating her….someone just wants people to think he is.
“When your “core players†are a 25 year old pitcher with ace stuff and a low 30’s DH, extending them is a no-brainer”
beckett had about a 5 era in 2006. i think it was about the same as randy johnson. how was that a no brainer signing?
it seems to me someone took a chance. the yankee would have said let’s see you have a good year first. then they would have been paying beckett 20 million a year instead of 10 million.
Oh Stop, funny… i heard the same argument from MadDog yesterday on his radio program. Good to see you a fan of his show.
Here is a way to test directly the organizal intelligence of the Red Sox and Yankees. Watch what happens with Lowell. If either team offers him more than 3 years, not too smart. Money, sure, but you don’t go long with a Lowell (or a Posada or a Rivera). And, of course, if the Red Sox bid for you-know-who, being a sucker for Boras is never a sign of organizational genius, and doing it while still writing checks to JD Drew cinches it.
Oh Stop -
Rodriguez did have a good first part of the 2004 playoffs, up to the point in game 4 where it all evaporated. But to say he “carried” the team at that time is an overstatement. I recall everyone having a pretty good NLCS, and if I’m not mistaken, Hideki Matsui or Gary Sheffield were on target to be the MVP of that series.
It’s true that Mariano blew the save in that one game, but how many times did ARod come up, this year alone, with a chance to make a difference in the game and not do it. Someone brought up is 9th inning at bat in the “bug-out” game. It gets lost because of the bugs, but ARod had a chance to put the team ahead, with Mariano in place to get the win. He did not do it. One hit in that one at bat would have erased all the perceived “sins” of the past. He could not do it. Boras is being an idiot, and SJ is right — he needs to shut up right now. The pigeons are ready to come home to roost.
Boras is only making himself look like an ass. Does he think Alex is going to gain any sympathy from baseball fans or Yankee fans by trashing Mo. Everyone knows that if Mo and/or Gordon didn’t blow those games we would have been in the world series and likely would have rolled over the Cards. But the hitting stopped after game 4. It wasn’t only pitching to blame (game 7 aside).
And why does he leave out what Alex did in 2005, 2006, 2007? A meanless homerun in game 4 means nothing!!
Rivera’s blown a few saves, yeah, but without him, no way in hell we have #s 23, 24, 25 and 26.
You can’t compare A-Rod–someone who has _never_ come through in the Postseason for New York, with Mo, who I believe was the 99 series MVP and 2003 ALCS MVP (correct me if I’m wrong)
The other thing here is that Scott Boras can really put any spin he wants, because outside of NY, who’s going to take the time to look up the facts or put up an argument? And since the NYY are out of the picture, what does Boras care?
by all accounts, AROD won’t go to Chicago, they don’t have enough money, b/c of it all tied up with Soriano & Co.
The Angels paying for AROD that kind of money goes against everything their ownership represents, paying for one player. They have to give Vlady a new contract real soon.
The Mets have the left side of their infield wrapped up.
The Giants don’t want another “one player franchise” like they just had.
The Red Sox will re-sign Mike Lowell, so that’s that! Theo doesn’t want the PR nightmare of bringing AROD in.
So, looks like the Dodgers are the only choice. who is going to “drive up” the price for AROD? NOT THE YANKEES!
“Here is a way to test directly the organizal intelligence of the Red Sox and Yankees.”
i wonder what baseball prospectus, baseball america, etc have for criteria when measuring organizational intelligence. if fielding is so hard to measure, i imagine that measuring organizations is off the charts difficult.
i agree that how a team deals with boras could be one criteria when deciding how smart the oranization was. that’s because he’s such a force in the business.
i personally would overpay for lowell to solve a short term yankee problem. it’s not likely the yankees will have the disastrous start that they had last year so just adding lowell would probably bring them back to having a similar record as last year.
improvement of the record could then come from girardi’s affect on the team and the maturation of the young pitchers.
Stop crying about AROD-Let him walk, it was his choice. It will be addition by subtraction like Tiki leaving the Giants!! Yanks need some right handed position players. Hopefully Cashman can finally make a good deal and some hard nosed type players in here. I have no problem giving Rowand 5 for 60m and trading Melky. I’d look to a Crede/Konerko deal…..that would help the Yanks a lot at two postions where they are very thin right now. The bullpen is gonna need a major overhaul. Next year could be a tough year but I am ok with that…..I hope you 96 Yankee fans can live with your team not making the playoffs once in a while
NUMBER OF CAREER WORLD SERIES RBI’s
Arod……..0
Dice-K……2
I agree that Lowell is a good short-term solution, and that shelling out some serious money in recognition of his last year will be necessary to get him, and isn’t a bad idea. I think the pitfall will be signing him for more than 2 or 3 years. It is still only money, but somehow it is hard to send the long-term contracts down the road.
SJ44 Yanks have made playoffs for 13 Straight years 95 thru 07 they done that and have retooled for the future who else has done that?
Boras completely overplayed his hand, With Yankees & probably Red Sox out of bidding war he will not get what Yankees would have given him with he Texas subsidy in hand.
Any team that signs him will have to weaken themselves somewhere to afford him & have NO CHANCE to get to POSTSEASON which probably is what they rally want soA-Rod can’t choke once again underthe spotlight. Aren’t ICONIC FIGURES suppossed to be good when it counts?
Any team that signs A-Rod should insist on PENALTY CLAUSES whereby A-Rod pays them for P/S failures.
Yankees should spend A-Rod’s $ on the bullpen, & go with more defense & speed. Joe G. will know how & be willing to manufacture runs if he has a bullpen that can throw strikes & actually get people out. He was a GREAT hire. Future looks
bright.
Yanks supposedly speaking with White Sox about trading for Joe Crede. Crede is eligible for free agency after 2008 but I don’t think he has a contract for 2008 so that would have to be worked out. Crede’s agent is none other than Scott Boras.
Pat are you serious!! How the heck would we be able to get Crede to play third if we have Scott whining about ALex.
See? You cannot escape Scott Boras!!!
But I have no doubt that for Scott, it’s apples and oranges. Especially if ARod’s future is secured with the deal already in (sleight of) hand. If the Yankees make a good offer for Crede, why would Boras fight that?
Jennifer
Because Boras as an agent has to do the best thing for each of his clients indepedently. That’s why I find it laughable that some people on here think Cashman should never speak to Boras again. He represents top notch players and the Yankees have to deal with him.
The Yankees will continue to do business with Boras forever…..he owns 3/4 of all Free Agents every year…The Yankees would be stupid to make this personal, it would only hurt them….business is business…..Yanks will be fine just need to add position players, maybe trade one or 2 from Matsui, Abreu, Damon or Melky to have a better balanced lineup , definitely add arms to the bullpen and HOPE that Hughes, Joba, IPK, etc..don’t get hurt and are effective MLB pitchers
Problem is ALex is a bigger commission check than Alex is. He would make it very difficult on the Yankees signing Joe.
Boras’s entire argument is asinine. But teams that see ARod as a difference-maker won’t care about that.
Boras is basically saying, signing ARod will get your team to the next level. He opted out because the Yankees weren’t ready to go there. Are you?
It’s crazy, but it’s a line that must appeal to some GMs’ egos.
And portraying ARod as the ultimate difference-maker must have huge appeal to teams that just fell short of a playoff berth this season.
Boras doesn’t have to hide or spin ARod’s inconsistency in the playoffs because no player always performs well in the playoffs. I doubt any GM is dumb enough to refuse to give a player a huge contract because of a fear the player will transform into a terrible player in the postseason. For most GMs, the big concern is making the playoffs in the first place. Once you’re there, you hope that everyone on the team gets hot, Scott Podsednik hits a home run and Jeff Weaver becomes unhittable.
The bottom line is that ARod looks terrible right now, but his new team’s fans won’t care once he starts playing like ARod. This contract drama will be a footnote.
All Yankee fans can do at this point is decide whether they want to hate the guy or not. I don’t see the point. He was one of the best players the Yankees have ever had and we got him for a fraction of his value. Without him, we might not have made the playoffs during each of the last four years. And now he leaves at peak value and saves us from giving him an extension we would likely regret later.
Let him worry about his legacy. It’s not our problem.
Damit we need an edit button. I think you know what I meant to write.
So, on the organizational intelligence front, the Daily News is reporting that the Yankees have been inexplicably slow about putting an offer in front of Jorge Posada. If they haven’t done so, it would seem like now is the time. Right-handed at least against lefties, tough, durable, and there aren’t good alternatives. If the term is an issue, put real money on the table for 3 years before the Mets can offer something for 4 or more. It also shows respect to someone to whom, like Rivera, it probably matters a good deal.
Crede is still under contract with the White Sox. They could non-tender him in December or the Yankees could trade for him.
If he is back is ok, I’d try and get him. Great glove, decent hitter, good character guy. Also is in his walk year. Sometimes, you catch lightening in a bottle with guys in his situation. Especially, when you get them in their walk years.
^^^ I agree w/ the edit button
but seriously Alex knows that day will come when he has to fire Bor-RRRRrat, he knows it
“I have no problem giving Rowand 5 for 60m and trading Melky.”
I do. Rowand, though he gets dirty, just isn’t that great a hitter. He had good numbers last season…playing 81 games in an extreme hitters park. He’s had two real big years (04 and 07) and several mediocre ones. You don’t give 5/60 to a 30 year old who’s probably going to post an OPS in the mid .700s, even if you like that he plays hard. Note, Trot Nixon also plays hard…and had a really hard time staying off the DL once he his his low 30s
Poor Boras………….
“If they haven’t done so, it would seem like now is the time.”
Just because the media doesn’t hear about something doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Do you REALLY think Cash hasn’t called Jorge’s reps yet?
Crede can’t get on base. I’d rather see a Betemit/Ensberg platoon.
Whozat – yeah, I certainly hope you’re right. The style contrast with Mo going to Tampa so publically is a little unnerving, though. Time will tell, and Cashman generally does the right thing at the right time.
Crede is a pretty awful hitter. I wouldn’t be interested in him beyond 2007 even if we did trade for him.
As for Lowell, call me crazy but a career .280/.344/.468 who just turned 34 doesn’t do much for me. Especially, not for the money and years he’d likely demand.
If the price is right, what about trading for Hank Blalock?
Career numbers:
Joe Crede, .305 OBP
Wilson Betemit, .332 OBP
Morgan Ensberg, .366 OBP
Hank Blalock’s Home/Away Splits (2004-2006):
Home: .292/.356/.497
Away: .244/.296/.373
Pass.
I don’t know what the right price would be, but isn’t Hank Blalock a leftie? It sure would be nice to get a righthanded bat.
Crede’s also got some postseason pedigree. In Game 2 of the 2005 ALCS against the Angels, the game where A.J. Pierzynski reached first base on a dropped third strike that wasn’t, Crede ended up getting the game-winning hit. So when you’re getting Crede, you are not getting someone who will blow you away with stats, but you’re getting a solid player who knows what to do in the postseason.
SJ,
I too think A-Rod will end up with the Giants but Boras needs to convince them that someone else is interested for them to squeeze $30M per year from them.
The Met’s have the resources and could be a player, but they would have to move Wright to 1st, and trade Delgado with one year left on his contract ($16M). They might be able to find a taker if they paid for most of it. Otherwise he becomes a very expensive, unhappy bench player.
The Tigers took themselves out of it this week by obtaining Renteria. Dombrowski said so yesterday.
Everyone says the Angels will go after him but Moreno is on record about committing so much money to one player (he saw what happened to Texas), and at $30M A-rod comes in making double what his other star (Vlad)has been making. Not a prescription for good team chemistry, huh?
The Dodgers might make a move but since the Kevin Brown contract debacle they seem to have shied away from very large deals.
I think the Red Sox are happy with what they have and will make every effort to re-sign Lowell.
That leaves the Giants with Macgowan having lost his gate attraction and needing a bat to help his young pitchers. I think A-rod would be making a mistake to go there as they would have no lineup protection for him, teams would pitch around him, and he will start to press.
You know, nothing in life is perfect. He had a good situation with the Yankees and he screwed it up. If he gets the money he wants which is in doubt, I don’t think it will be that much more than the Yanks would have given him, and not worth the stuff he will go through. But that’s just my humble opinion.
J-Dawg,
One hit. You want to bring a guy who is a terrible hitter AND has a bad back because of ONE HIT. Morons like you drive me crazy.
Girardi wearing #27 is cheesy. The football Yankees have finally arrived. Give me a break.
The Dodgers don’t have any reason to sign A-Rod. With Hu and LaRoche, the left side of their infield should be set for some time.
Looks like Girardi will be wearing # 27 according to Newsday.
I’m just saying that he has postseason experience and that he didn’t get tight when the lights were on bright like A-Rod always did. You seem to be the only one who thinks that he is a terrible hitter. If you think that we’re all going to be down on Crede just because you don’t like him, then I have some Tennessee beachfront property that I want to sell you.
If A Rod goes to the Giants, he will never get pitched to just like Bonds in his heyday b/c there is zero protection. Sabean is going to be really careful after that stupid deal he made with Zito as well. I just don’t but it. Angels & Dodgers are his top 2. I think A Rod returning to Yankees will happen before he goes to the Giants.
“So, on the organizational intelligence front, the Daily News is reporting that the Yankees have been inexplicably slow about putting an offer in front of Jorge Posada.”
i agree by the way on your assessment of lowell. i would rather overpay for two years than have the yankees give him three or four and be afraid to drop him because money is still owed. i’s human nature to hold onto things you have paid a lot for even if they aren’t much use anymore( ex. giambi). a short term deal that overpays solves that tendency.
if it’s true the yankees are “inexplicably slow” with posada, that would fit my feeelings about the competency of the yankee front office. i hope it’s not true because he’s the one guy they can’t afford to lose for the next few years. i suppose it’s a similar situation like with lowell where the player has options. someone will give lowell or posada 4 years. they are not likely to be as good in four years. there is no chance posada will be because even if he was 30 years old he wouldn’t likely have a better year than 2007.
if posada leaves, all bets are off on next year being a good year for the yankees. they need to sign him and if they have to overpay ,that’s the way it goes. it was their choice to take it to this point. so now carry out the plan to pay more if he had a good year and sign him up.
ORORO Joe is wearing #27 because all the other numbers he has worn in his career are either taken or are retired.
I agree with B that Crede is a bad hitter. He has a career 92 OPS+. He will be 30 and coming off a major injury. Looks like a poor investment to me, even for one year.
Anyone can come up with a key hit in the playoffs. There’s no Mystery Element X that only certain players have that lets them get a big hit.
Crede is not a good hitter:
His career line:
BA OBP SLG OPS+
.259 .305 .446 92
I didn’t recall Girardi wearing # 52 as bench coach a couple years back
J-Dawg,
There is no reason to NOT be down on Crede. He can’t take a walk. He doesn’t hit for average. He has a bad back that might hurt the one skill he does have with a bat, power.
And I guess you’re one of those reactionary idiots that missed the 2004 ALDS. A-Rod has and will again hit in October. This mysterious clutch skill you seem to believe in does not exist.
I had a dream last night that Shelley Duncan hit a grand slam in the playoffs… Not sure what to make of it, but it sure beats the nightmares I’ve been having for the past week!
Just remember that Crede was a solid .283 in his last healthy season. Maybe that was the sign of someone who was putting it all together, or maybe you guys are right and it was just a mirage. Either way, I won’t show fits of immaturity like B and call people morons when they disagree with me. That’s not my style.
Jennifer it’s still cheesy. he had a lot of choices other than #27. This one is obvious re: the mission statement. Bullocks as the Brits say.
J-Dawg,
It was an empty .283. This is why most intelligent people stopped looking at only Batting Average years ago.
Crede’s 2006 was a decent season. He even won the Silver Slugger over ARod, somehow. Due to his age and injury it’s probably the best he will ever have and his future seasons will probably be more in line with his averages.
The low OBP is his glaring problem. The Yankees, like all good teams, try to stack their lineup with high OBP guys. Crede’s low OBP has been his Achilles heel throughout his whole career.
It’s hard to call myself a “reactionary idiot” when A-Rod has one postseason RBI in his last 60 postseason at-bats. That’s 60 ABs, not 40, not 20, not 10, but 60. It’s easy to draw conclusions after 60 ABs, and the conclusion is that A-Rod does not like postseason pressure.
Crede has steadily improved, though his OBP is quite low, it really depends on who they have to give up to get him. Most of his production did come at the bottom of the order, w/o anyone to protect him in the lineup. He’s definitely worth looking into a shot.
60 AB is still an extremely small sample and it was not over a continuous stretch, or even within one season. It is, for all intents and purposes, meaningless when predicting his future performance.
Buddy Biancalana,
Stop talking about protection like it has that big of an impact on a player’s numbers. It doesn’t have a significant effect.
It’s not a small sample in A-Rod’s mind. I’m just saying that I would imagine that he remembers his past failures every time he steps up to the plate in the playoffs. It’s always the elephant in the room with him. He tries to block it out but he can’t escape it.
So now you’re A-Rod’s pyschologist?
I’m shocked that someone would suggest that those fine people down in Texas would give money to Boras to have his client opt out of his Yankee contract.
I know that with 21 million at stake, it would have been a temptation to slip a couple of tax free million into a swiss bank account for Boras, but we know Baseball people have too much integrity to do such a thing.
But you might want to see how many Boras clients suddenly find Texas to their liking.
Let me just recite everything so far. So far I’ve been called a moron, an idiot, and now A-Rod psychologist just for disagreeing with you. I didn’t call you one thing at all. Give me a break!!
Who really cares what number Girardi wears? Really.
I hope the Yankees make a push for Mike Lowell and I hope he is amenable to going to the Yankees. I just looked up all his stats, because I’d heard his home/away really favored Fenway. But, overall it looks like he does well against the other NL East teams, except Baltimore, he does well against the Angels and the Indians, too. Now, not facing NY would take a nice piece of his BA away, but, with his numbers at Fenway, maybe he’d still do well in the 9 games NY plays there.
I have no problem with Lowell if he can be signed for a reasonable amount and number of years. I don’t think that’s going to be the case given the career year he just had.
If you’re looking for a large sample size in the post-season for anyone, you’re really not going to find it. Most players don’t have a whole of post-season exposure. And I agree about the elephant in the room. ARod was relaxed most of the season, but as soon as he got the ALDS, you could see the tension in his face. Now, with a new team, he may be able to erase the recent past, especially if he has another very good regular season. That all remains to be seen.
“If you’re looking for a large sample size in the post-season for anyone, you’re really not going to find it.”
Which is why you don’t use postseason stats to analyze a player’s value and future performance.
B-
I disagree, it is quite important, though most star players still achieve their huge #’s, but it’s certainly not insignificant.
If you think Abreu didn’t help out A Rod a ton even though he struggled in the beginning, your’e nuts, in fact A Rod probably helped out Abreu more than anything.
J Dawg-
I see all your points, B just likes to think he knows everything by ripping people for their thoughts.
Buddy,
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....nd-batters
Read up.
Then why do people throw around Jeter’s and Mariano Rivera’s post season stats when discussing their postseason value? It’s part of the game. Everyone discusses numbers and everyone has an opinion of what is a good stat and what isn’t. Experts cite OBP, OPS, BA, regular season, post season, – some “experts” have their own stats – everyone does it and it’s going to keep happening. And whether it’s a valid practice or not, it’s going to continue. Do you think Boras’ little arod notebook is filled with letters of recommendation from his high school guidance counsellors and third grade teachers? It’s filled with stats. Boras accumulates and skews the numbers that arod produces to make the best case possible for his clients and uses it to squeeze the most money out of team owners. And if Boras is going to use numbers, you can’t just dismiss arod’s recent post season failure. Why do you think Boras is blaming Mo’s “failed save” on Arod’s post season failure instead of his client? He’s trying (in vain) to skew numbers. And right now, arod’s number say he’s a post season failure. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
sunny615,
No good analyst places tons of emphasis on postseason performance because of the sample size. That’s something hacks on ESPN or local beat writers do to create news.
Okay. So, then, Beckett, for instance, with his great post-season record – when he’s looking for a new contract, should not cite his success?
B-
Great article, but regardless protection is still important. Do you think Ortiz’s #’s would be so good w/o Manny hitting behind him?
Great point Doreen!
Buddy,
I don’t think Ortiz’s numbers would be significantly hurt without Manny.
Doreen,
Of course he’ll push his postseason performance in contract negotiation. That doesn’t mean the GM should weight it more heavily than his entire record or solely use it to make his decision on the type of offer to make.
sunny615, you are proving your own point by skewing stats yourself. Jeter has had several awful playoff series. Rivera has blown saves in pivotal playoff games, including game 7 of the freaking World Series. You can spin their stats either to mask those bad performances or highlight them.
And you’re being subjective by saying ARod is a postseason failure. He’s been great in the playoffs, terrible in the playoffs, and everything in between. Just like Jeter and probably every other player who has played in several postseason series.
Smart GMs must know that playoff performance cannot be a predominant reason for choosing whether to sign a player. Give me one example where a team signed a position player because he had a reputation as a proven winner in the playoffs, and that player went on to do something special in the playoffs. It doesn’t work that way because the playoffs are too random.
Boras is going to pitch ARod as a difference-maker in the regular season. Not just because it’s the easiest argument to make, but because it’s the best argument that can be made for any position player. In the playoffs you never know who will run hot or cold.
as much as arod is an idiot and as big boras is an ahole. his post season numbers are similiar to his regular season numbers. as are jeter’s, oniell’s and bernie’s
Would you give Jose Rijo, Pat Borders or David Eckstien huge contracts because they were WS MVPs? I wouldnt.I wouldnt even factor that into his new contract. Of course, there are some GM’s out there thatdo stuff like that and it bites you in the a$$ soon enough
Perhaps not, but the fact of the matter is, people use it, Analysts, scouts, teams, they all use the numbers because they’re available. Espn and media ABUSE it, but it’s still goes into how teams play each other. Whether it’s a full fledged scouting report or an asterick at the bottom of the notes… Stats are a part of the game and whether or not they have a definitive meaning or purpose is based on the person/manager using them whether or not they have true value. Clutch, Post season, etc – all phantom values that people have no choice but to use.
Small example. Josh Phelps. In Spring Training, he was a beast. won the 1b job out from under Andy Phillips based solely on an extremely small sample size. Was it a mistake – you bet, but that’s all Torre had to work with. And he used that stat to make Phelps our crap a$$ 1bman. Was it flawed, yep, but what other choice/information did Torre have? Same for postseason – was arod moved to 8th in the lineup last postseason because of his .290 BA and 121 rbi’s regular season (1st among Yanks), and .915 OPS? nope, because of his past and current postseason failures. And in this case – it was spot on because Arod disappeared.
It’s by no means accurate, but samples sizes are basically noted by the user of the stat. But they’re still used.
Jeremy – no – you are skewing my stats, Jeter’s overall postseason statisitcs are still impressive despite this past years disappearance. Same with Mo. Have these failed in specific times and places, sure, but overall, Jeter and Mo are great postseason players. You’re taking my overall view and nitpicking out a few spots here and there, but overall, those two are solid in the postseason. Arod – not so much. The point is – stats are used despite sample size. The sample size is most assuredly taken into account by the user, but they’re still used.
Jeter and Mo are great postseason players because they are great players, and after playing so many games in the postseason, your numbers level out.
Jeter Regular Season: 317/388/462
Jeter Post Season: 309/377/469
sunny615,
So your argument is that because it appears to you that people in the few examples you provided used small sample sizes to make bad decisions that the small sample sizes should be used for all performance analysis?
No – i’m just saying Just because the sample size is small, doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant. It’s a practice that people use, whether or not it’s valid in your eyes.
Fans definitely use postseason performance to judge players. Particularly recent postseason performance, which is why few people care about what ARod did in 2004.
But what do GMs and their staff think? I doubt teams sign players based on playoff performance. If they did, they would give a lot of money to a rather strange group of players.
Jeremy – I don’t think GM’s sign player based solely on their post season performance, but at the same time, I don’t think they ignore it either.
This is a test to see if the code still works:
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“Yankees Official Websiteâ€:http://www.yankees.com
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* test1 test2 test3
# testA testB testC
apparently not
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codestrong
Yankees Website
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http://www.nydailynews.com/