Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 01, 2007 
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Andy Pettitte said he would play for the Yankees or retire in 2008. Given what a good season he had, I would bet he comes back.
The Mets could have an interest in Alex Rodriguez and will ask David Wright what he thinks. Brian Heyman has that story.
I think a lot of this A-Rod stuff is a smokescreen, both on the part of teams and the player. People will use the situation for their own benefit. GMs will try and make it look like they’re doing their jobs and Boras will welcome all comers to the auction.
Now the latest spin out of Newport Beach is that Alex loves the Yankees and simply became a free agent “just like Posada and Rivera.”
Right, except that when asked to meet with the team and talk it over, Mariano Rivera showed up at Legends Field. Or when asked to meet with the team and talk it over, Jorge Posada told his people to meet with the Yankees next week.
————
Meanwhile, the Yankees have a 1 p.m. press conference at the Stadium today for Joe Girardi. I’ll be back later with the audio from that and whatever other news comes out.
Not that it matters in the broader scheme of things, but does anyone know who gets to wear #25? The manager/former Yankee or the $21 million DH/former MVP?
I guess we’ll find out today…
Pretty harsh in your article…you mention that if Pettitte retires, Wang is the only experienced starter on the roster. Mussina??? You have to figure he’ll be in the rotation next year. What else could you do with him?
Stephen- It looks like Girardi is going to wear #27 and leave Giambi with #25.
Joe will be wearing #27, although as some have suggested he should wear #13 to tweak Alex and Scott.
Good to read that Jorge is getting ready to meet with the team. Makes me feel alot better about that situation since the Mo one, is getting settled.
Mussina is baggage at this point. I don’t count on him for anything, except to finish out his contract with another crappy year in and out of the rotation as a 5th starter.
As for ARod, I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He’s just trying desperately to pull the Yanks back into the picture so other teams think they have to bid against them, thus driving up his price even more. I think that all Boras and ARod care about is topping the record-setting $250 million contract they got with Texas. Think about it. They didn’t want to even listen to the Yanks’ extension offer, becasue it wouldn’t beat the last contract. But 30 mill for 9 or 10 years would.
Ok, I understand what Boras is doing and he does his job effectively. But I think the Yankees need to make it clear, send another press statement, start rumors, that they are definately out of the Arod sweepstakes, which I don’t believe they are entirely.
They need to release a statement saying that while they respect the right of the player to exercise his option, it is no way represents the equivalent free agency filings by other players on the Yankees or elsewhere in baseball. It is unfortunate that the option in his contract was exercised and well within his righ to do so, but the Yankees have chosen to move on and pursue other options to fill the vacancy. We wish Arod and his family the best of luck in his future endevors.
Just get it done and kill this story about Arod. Counter Borasssss with some PR – just like the Republican spin machine can do.
Pete, your predictions haven’t met with the greatest success lately. So, you make me nervous when predicting Pettit will return. I can only hope that you are right. We really, really need his pitching and calm influence on the young arms.
Regarding A-Rod, while disappointed that he opted out, and in a very boorish way, I wish all talk of him would end on our blogs. Whatever will happen… will happen. Its up to the Stein boys and Cash. If no one else, I trust Cash.
I am optimistic about 2008. My biggest concern is that they trade some of the youth they have (Kennedy, Melky) away for 30+ players. Even at third, we COULD get by with Phillips/Cano combination (maybe Cano moves to third and Phillips to 2nd).
Heck, even middle relief should be fine if ANY of the kids in the minors, or Veras, or Bruney, or..etc. can step up.
With Joe G. as manager, I even doubt we have yet another slow start.
Thanks for a great blog.
“Just becoming a free agent like Mo’?”
Give me freakin’ break. He seemed enough of an a$$hole leaving to begin with. Now this…scumbag.
Cano ain’t going to 3rd. He’s said so publicly. Jeter and Cano have 2 glamour spots on the yankees diamond. It’s a non starter.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo....._sl-1.html
“If the Mets offer Posada four years – or possibly five – it would leave the Yankees in a difficult spot, as they would be committing more years than they wish to a catcher who will turn 37 next summer.”
who cares about arod? he’s gone. posada’s possible leaving is the next fire to fight.
if posada leaves, a pattern will be set that no amount of spin by the yankees will prove that the team is not in disarray. if the yankees sign posada, then there’s hope that the organization is moving forward in the right way.
right behind A Rod, Posada was the Yanks MVP. He’s playing major hard ball.
Letting Posada go might be better than resigning him…assuming, via trade or FA, they can replace his bat cumulatively at other positions. Going with a defensive-minded catcher would be better for the pitching staff and probably a better fit with the new manager.
does anyone think the mets will actually offer 4-5 years at $13-14 per? I guess they could but I don’t see it happening.
I think Jorgy will stay as long as the Yanks offer is even in the same ballpark as the Mets. I think 3yr/42M with mutual option years or option years based on games played will get it done whether the Mets offer 4 or 5 years.
there is no way to defend the timing of A-Rod’s announcement and all of the shenanigans around that, but you guys are missing something: A-Rod is right.
A-Rod SHOULD have been able to become a free agent just like Posada and Mo and still be able to come back to the yankees: as long as he knows that the Yankees will subtract $21M from his market value.
but he is right, there is only way for a player to establish their market value: by testing the market.
and that’s what alex should be able to do.
i don’t think the yankees were necessarily RIGHT either to force him to only negotiate with one team. everyone here seems to think that way, b/c they are biased yankee fans. you guys think that Alex should simply take whatever the yankees are offering, but that is not fair to Alex.
from both parties perspective, alex should be out there setting his market value. then the yankees would be able to choose whether or not they are interested in bringing him back at that price, and if alex wants to come back, he would have to make a concession for the texas money.
simple, isn’t it?
but declaring that they will not negotiate AT ALL after the opt out date doesn’t make that much sense either. it’s just turned into a huge pissing match by a bunch of grown men.
randy I.
if posada leaves, a pattern will be set that no amount of spin by the yankees will prove that the team is not in disarray. if the yankees sign posada, then there’s hope that the organization is moving forward in the right way.
I have to disagree that posada leaving will constitute a pattern. Torre left, but with exception to perhaps the way it occurred, it is not that unexpected. Arod left, but that was his own choice or his agents choice. All other activity has been positive for the Yankees.
They signed a great new manager in Girardi. They are working with Mo’. Pettitte will resign, he is just not in a rush..and they have great young talent.
Posada, while missed, can have his “bat” replaced. His catching skills and ability to call a game are easily replaced by Molina. One year with Molina behind the plate will not sink the Yankees.
I think in the end, a player should look at what the Yankees are doing, how they are building a future for the organization for another run like 96 to present.
Players and fans need to stop absorbing what is written in the fish wrappers everyday and look at where the team is headed. If last year was proof of where they are going, the Yankees are going to be dominate for years to come, not filled with over priced, over the hill DH’s…..
How about Ian Kennedy, Brett Gardner, Alan Horne & Reggie Corona for Miguel Cabrera? I don’t see other teams willing to move higher celing pitching talent (i.e. Joba, Clay Bucholz, Elbert (LA Dodgers) in any trade for a non-pitcher. Maybe the Yankees have to give up Melky or Tabata, players w/ a higher celing than Gardner to play CF for them. Miguel Cabrera is awesome and we will never talk A-Fraud again if we acquired Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins.
So Joes getting #27. Thats a good number.
This A-Rod thing isn’t going away anytime soon. I just hope it at least calms down a little bit. Having 2 or 3 pieces of news about him everyday is just getting annoying.
Well, didn’t Girardi originally wear 45 and then switch to 25 when Prince Fielder, Sr. was traded over?
hmmm, couldn’t agree more. Arod should be able to set his market value and yes, too many people think he should only negotiate with the Yankees.
But I am of the opinion that he chose to seek what else is out there. In doing so, he has made it clear he is not interested in what the Yankees have to say unless they are part of the overall process. The Yankees have stated that they choose not to be. So this marriage is over.
The Yankees would make a huge mistake if they enter the Arod auction. Not just because of the money committment, but I believe it will take them off the course they chose two years ago and is starting to bear fruit. They need to continue to develop internally and spend money on signing more young talent that will fill gaps when they appear.
Arod, while a great player, cannot carry a team like one person can in other sports – if he could, Texas would have been a serious playoff contender.
It would be a terrific thing for Pettitte to come back. He has plenty left and he did end up with a very good year. His ERA only rose over 4 because of that last start against Baltimore. He definitely held the staff together during April, when Mike Mussina and Chien-Ming Wang were injured and the Yankees were depending on Darrell Rasner, Kei Igawa, and Chase Wright among others.
J-Dawg
Yeah, I actually calculated Pettitte’s WHIP and ERA when taking out his two really bad consecutive starts in late June/early July against the Angels and A’s and his ERA was in the low 3′s and his WHIP was around 1.30(which is above average and pretty good for a guy known as a contact pitcher). Just shows overall what a solid season he had.
posada for 4 or 5 yrs is insanity.. the guy will be 37 this coming season.. yeah he will be great at 41 as a catcher, ladies relax….
there have been tons of productive catchers at 41!!!!!!!!!!NONE…We need another Giambi like contract, you guys are all great talent scouts and negotiators!!!!!!
Pettitte and Mo will be back, jorge overpay for 3 yrs…
Creded for 3B and they will be fine..
Learned something else this morning about our friend Alex. He is the only person not to come and accept the Hank Aaron Award in person and guess what he has done this twice.
Boras citing family committment also said that MLB doesnt understand that for Alex to come this year and get it would open up a pandoras box of press questions about what he was going to do about his opt our, his postseason etc etc . Note to Boras Alex was able to this season not discuss his opt out every time he has asked simply by saying this is not something I am going to discuss what makes getting the award any different.he could have said I am here to get this award I am very honred,honred to get it from Hank and moved on.
Oh and guess what else Boras said. They are working on getting Hank and Alex together at a later time so he can accept it in person. Meaning so Alex can get all of the attention again and not have to deal with all these questions???
The logic sometimes boggles the mind and what makes it even worse is that people dont call this guy out on it.
What would it take for the Yankees to acquire 3B Kevin Kouzmanoff from San Diego? He bats righthanded, turns 27 next 7/25, and came off a nice rookie season: .275 BA, 18 HR, 74 RBI, .457 SLG. San Diego has another 3B in their system who could possibly take over 3B named Chase Headley.
Yeah, but if Posada continues to decline defensively, he can always switch to 1B/DH. We’d still be paying him less than we’ve been paying Giambi.
the arod apologist cannot let it go, they are in love with the tease called afraud..
poor arod treated differently..
morons, he did not meet with the yanks before doing his routine, they were subsidized by texas for about $30 mill……
he lied about why he was opting out, now his propogandist is blaming it on mariano and game 4 against the sux.. how can anyone support this tease!!!!!!He is the marshmellow man, soft and sleezy…
I dont care how much the Yankees need Posada… if some other team if going to guarantee him 4 years and over $50 million to play elsewhere, and the Yankees dont match that, it proves to me they do know whats going on, and there is order and common sense in the front office.
YeS !!!! Torrealba opts for FA
I didn’t mean in 2008 for Posada to switch from C. I meant in the foreseeable future when we might have someone else ready to catch. Jesus Montero looks promising.
pepperbrooks-
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21
how about a pattern there? just testing to see if you’d see a pattern if one bit you in the butt. if posada leaves, i see just as clear a pattern as the above sequence of numbers.
look, if the yankees want to pull a marlins sellout of the team and start over, fine. i wouldn’t even argue with that because it would be such a kick to watch a third of the teams fold without yankee money.
but don’t say that losing posada doesn’t matter. one player doesn’t make a team. but there is a point where losing too many core players matters . the yankees are at that point with posada. they need to sign him.
Fair point, Pete.
But I still suspect what transpired was more because of Boras than A-Rod. Boras was afraid if A-Rod met with brass he would yield. Alex does love to please, after all.
Boras, I belive, was planning to use the Bernie Willaims playbook, assuming the Yankees would be a desperate to retain A-Rod as they were to keep Bernie. Remember how Boras distanced Bernie from the organization after he filed for free agency. Bernie, I believed, also declined to negotiate during the exclusive bargaining window. Alas, this time, Boras seems to have miscalculated. And all his appearances recently strike me as an effort to redeem his mistake.
In the end, if Alex really wanted to opt-out and to preserve the Yankees as an option he, privately, should have conveyed precisely that. Alex should have said, “I want to remain a Yankee, but i don’t know my true value until the free market sets it.” Perhaps, he did. Who knows?
A friend just emailed me that the White Sox had interest in Figgins and Santana from the Angels for Crede. That sounds like alot for Crede.
I honestly wonder if Alex does/did want to stay here and was just too dumb to tell Boras to put the games aside and meet with them. I would not put it past Boras to convince him, “look, they’re bluffing, we need to opt-out to call them out.” And so far it’s just backfired.
If A-Rod just does whatever Boras tells him to do, and uses what he thinks is his own brilliant baseball mind, he may have just over-thought himself out of New York when he may have actually been sincere in wanting to stay.
Now I know it’s a stretch to think the guy actually meant anything he said, I’m just saying it’s not a far stretch that he was just too stupid to stand up to Boras (who, by the way works for A-Rod), and say he wanted to hear the Yankees offer first and foremost and wanted to stay….
I don’t think any of this is the case, just wonder if it could be……
are we interested in the fastest catcher/ good game caller Yorvit Torrealba ?
randy l
I agree. The Yankees have no back up plan in place if Posada leaves. With him and A-Rod gone they would lose to much production.
I think he’ll sign with the Yankees within a week or two.
Folks, can the insults stop? Just because someone doesn’t share your opinion does not give you a right to insult that person.
Losing Posada might be a good thing if replaced with a defensive-minded receiver who can really work with the pitching staff, block pitches, and call a great game.
This “core” everyone keeps mentioning? A-Rod is the only person lost, so far. Would it be so terrible to break it up? They didn’t win the WS with them, they can certainly not win it without them.
Brandon-
Hes a decent player for sure. But the Yankees need to sign Posada.
crede with 1 yr on his contract and 29 yrs old for figgins and ervin santana would be a steal for the white sux and will never happen….
no way Crede’s present value is quite limited…
he can be gotten for a lot less…..
We are already losing ARod’s production and now people want to replace Posada’s production somewhere else in the lineup and make Molina the everyday guy? That’s a long way down, offensively, particularly on the right side.
Posada is not a bad defensive catcher, maybe average. Pena has helped him be better, and with Girardi around, his game-calling could still improve further.
With his age, the Yankees shouldn’t give him more than 3 years, but 3 years with a raise over his current contract is not a bad deal for this team at this time, knowing what else is out there. (Who backs up Molina, by the way?)
Yes you sign Posada for 3 years. If drops off at catchr or if another catcher emerges on the FA or trading block in the second or third year, you go get that guy and make Posada the DH, or backup catcher.
There is nothing wrong with that.
the core is down to mo, jeter, jorge, and pettitte.. that is it.. jeter and mo are staying. it is andy’s choice and if Jorge get’s an insane contract and wants to play for the Mets enjoy your new team……..
I am sure Jorge will like being double switched, playing at shea and citi field and all the other frills..
DMan, I’d say what the hell he’s insurance for either Posada or Molina, and is the fastest C out there and a good game caller exp. Jimenez and (Morales) who we may trade for this offseason. Torreabla reminds me of Girardi.
The difference is Posada and Mo had their contracts expire (didn’t have a choice)..ARod CHOSE to void his deal (if he wanted to stay a Yankee, he would still be a Yankee).
They are completely different examples!
hmmmm i would agree about him being able to negotiate with more than one team, but I would add that Boras knows the market well enough, as do the Yankees, to know if they gave him a fair offer without shopping it around (and let’s not think he wouldn’t shop it around even if A-Rod hadn’t opted out).
bottom line, if he wanted to stay, he should have at least heard the offer first. Fact is, he would still have had 6 days from today to make that decision to opt out…. By then Mo and Po, Andy and the coaching staff could very well be set in place, answering his questions.
Whether it was his decision or Boras’ to not even meet with them and listen to the offer, they made the wrong choice. He could have listened to the offer and then decided it wasn’t enough to keep him from testing the market.
I’m sure at some point we’ll find out why they didn’t do that, but even from a pure business standpoint, I’m not yet sure as to why the best move is not to get that first offer, then shop it around.
“but declaring that they will not negotiate AT ALL after the opt out date doesn’t make that much sense either”
hmmm -
i have thought that all along that the yankees painted themselves into a corner with their intractable opt out/goodbye position with arod.
posada is the next free agent they have to make a decision on. they need to show some ability to negotiate with give and take here.” my way or the highway” isn’t going to cut it no matter how much emphasis is going to be on growing from within. teams like cleveland have locked up young players. the yankees make no move on wang or cano. waiting to the last minute isn’t really a sophisticated approach for arod or posada or for young players like wang and cano..
Brandon-
Well, I dont know much aobut his game calling other than looking at the Rookies as a team and such..
But hes 29 y/o and he wouldn’t want to be a backup now..
He also only hit .255 this year, and thats in the NL.. The AL has better pitching.. (For the most part, I don’t want to start a whole new debate heh)
I mean with the Yankees, this guy is your #8 batter..
If the Mets signed Posada, fine. The Yanks could sign Paul LoDuca and Ramon Castro who combined for 19 HR and 85 RBI this year, only one HR and 5 RBI less than what Posada posted this year. LoDuca posted 9 HR and 54 RBI, Castro 11 and 31 in
nooooooo forget LaDuca way too many head problems Girardi would whoop his a$* on the field
Posada – 3 years with a team option for the 4th year. That should at least help stand up to a 4 year offer from other teams, considering I would highly doubt he wants to leave.
Yeah, lets break the bank for another .250 hitter who will turn 30 in 2008. Sigh, Posada and Molina are a good combination til help from the farm comes up. If Po leaves, Molina is a stopgap, maybe as long as help is on the way from the farm. Why break the bank, have another long term contract, for a 30+ year old .250 hitter? Sigh…….don’t make moves just to be making moves. Keep getting younger, not older. This really isn’t rocket science.
DadinIowa
I agree, no need to get older here.
Basically its Posada, or Molina..
There are no Yankee prospects at catcher right now.. None worth noting anyway.
They could look into converting somebody, but don’t count on that..
Posada is the best option at catcher. Catchers are at a premium in the league right now.
no LoDuca
maybe i’m in the minority here, but i just don’t see jorge going to the mets. i really don’t. my reasons:
1- as serious as posada is, i think he has a soft spot for our team (at least i’d like to think he does)
2- he knows how much the yankees value him, he has handled about 4,404 pitchers in the past few years
3- the mets can’t make him a dh later in his deal, and i doubt he’d be an amazing first baseman
4- he knows that yankee stadium was the birthplace of the now famous, ‘hip hip-JORGE’ chant. how could he let anyone but yankee fans yell that?!
We have to retain Jorge, I believe he can have the same offensive season he had this year. I think his mind was finally clear with his son being healthy and finally not needing surgery. Say we give him 3 years, he can play first/dh/ or back up in the third year. I do not like the other catchers on the market. And heaven forbid we get Laduca I think i’d puke.
“Losing Posada might be a good thing if replaced with a defensive-minded receiver who can really work with the pitching staff, block pitches, and call a great game.”
nieves did that. ausmus does too. somehow having them wouldn’t seem the same as having posada there with a good defensive back up.
i don’t see anything good about losing posada.
When Boras threw Rivera under the bus that’s when he lost me.
Think about it for a moment. ONE blown save by Mariano Rivera is the reason why Arod has no post-season legacy?
What about Games 5-7 in the ’04 ALCS? The ’05-07 ALDS? Arod couldn’t produce in those games? Why? Was he so broken up by Mo’s inability to close out Game 4, he lost the ability to play baseball?
You mean to tell me, Mariano Rivera is now the reason why Arod is not known as a great post-season performer?
I get him being in all-spin, all the time mode. That’s his job.
However, does he really want to compare the post-season accomplishments of Mariano Rivera and his client?
Let’s just say if that’s where he wants to go, he won’t need to kill many trees to come up with the paper needed to list Arod’s post-season accomplishments. Mariano? He would probably have to tear down a small forest to list his accomplishments.
Let’s say both sides (Boras and the Yankees) kissed and made up and Arod wanted to come back.
How does he look Mariano Rivera in the eye in the locker room? Or Jeter for that matter?
Its reached the idiotic stage with Boras and Arod now.
Boras wanted him to opt out and he did. Its nobody’s fault your client can’t play in the post-season. Just get him his new deal and turn the page.
He’s no longer part of the New York Yankees. He’s as irrelevent to the future as Kevin Brown is to the Yankees.
Trying to blame others for his foibles is precisely the reason why, for all of his accomplishments, Arod has little respect and few friends in the game.
Boras should remember that the next time he tries to throw another player under the bus in his defense of his client.
Especially one who is LIGHT YEARS better as a post-season performer than Arod will ever be.
Yeah.. We really need to put these other ideas aside about who could play catcher..
It has to be Posada. The Yankees know this and Posada knows it.
Which is kind of why he has them by the tail. But the Yankees will pay to keep him, and it’ll be a smart choice.
pepperbrooks-
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21
how about a pattern there? just testing to see if you’d see a pattern if one bit you in the butt.
Probably not. Sitting in a chair all day makes my butt inaccessable. But your string of numbers have the following:
2 are even, 6 are odd = 26 total number of Yankee pennants
Moving from left to right, the difference between numbers goes 0,1,1,2,3,5,8 – with exception to 0, the difference between the numbers produces the same numbers up to 8
Sum of the numbers is 54..divided by the 8 number = 6.75 – interesting that the sum of the numbers/total numbers produces an answer with three numbers in sequence 5,6,7
Any thing else?
Looks, I am not saying losing Posada is great for the Yankees but I don’t think trying to keep him at the expense of a bidding war or giving him 4 or 5 years is worth it. Mike Piazza was a good hitting catcher, but look at him now, he is partially effective, in comparison to where he was before. I am ok with keeping Posada, 3yrs/15 mil, but not much more than that.
Large contracts are still hampering the Yankees. This needs to be avoided.
I like Chris NY’s approach: 3 years with a team option for a 4th if that helps Jorge feel good about the term. $40M for the 3 years is a solid raise over the current contract. Then if Jorge leaves, it will only be for more money or years than we should offer anyway.
“the arod apologist cannot let it go, they are in love with the tease called afraud..
poor arod treated differently..
morons, he did not meet with the yanks before doing his routine, they were subsidized by texas for about $30 mill……
”
this has nothing to do with “love” or “poor arod”. it has to do with facts and common sense.
a-rod should be allowed to come back to the yankees after testing the market, just like posada.
as long as he realizes the yankees are going to adjust for losing the Texas money. that’s all.
no emotions, just business.
everyone here just can’t get over their feelings of betrayal, b/c we are yankee fans.
Pepper Brooks-
That was impressive finding those patterns!
I can barily do crossword puzzles haha.
SJ44 – here here…. Nice call on the Boras comments.
Randy1,
34, what do I win?
First off, if somebody offers Posada 4 years, you say goodbye.
Really, 4 years for a 36 year old catcher? If the Yankees did that, they are nuts.
It wouldn’t mean they are in disarray. It would mean they would be making a smart baseball decision. Four years for Jorge is too much. If Omar Minaya wants to pay it, good luck to him.
Second, how do you know the Yankees don’t have a backup plan in case they lose Posada. Just because they didn’t announce it, doesn’t mean they don’t have a contingency plan in place.
Fans aren’t privvy to teams off-season moves, no matter how many rumors are started.
As far as Posada to the Mets are concerned, Jorge was one of the players who implored Brian Cashman not to sign Pedro when he was a FA. Jeter was another.
Now, Jorge is going to catch him? I’ll believe that when I see it.
“Posada – 3 years with a team option for the 4th year.”
after seeing what the yankees did with bernie, no way does jorge accepts the yankees having the option.
DMan – thank you…
D,Man,
Cervelli, Montero, Romine, are all prospects…
SJ getting ANGRY, I like it…
I didn’t hear anything about those comments from Boras, but hearing them now, I would agree on all counts of that post.
Mariano is the last guy to throw under any bus, the entire Baseball world (including fans of all teams) loves and respects him as a player and as a person.
I really think maybe Boras is the one with “declining health” this year. Maybe people should start asking where his brain cells went.
that crede/figgins trade was proposed last offseason, and is not a recent proposal.
WHOA.
What if you knew the Yankees had the inside track on a switch-hitting third baseman that hit .338/.426./.543 last season?
His name is JORGE POSADA. And signing Yorvit Torrealba is the key to this situation. Jorgie would make an excellent third baseman. To begin with, he came into the system as a shortstop. Also, there are great precedents for such a successful switch, not least our former manager who did it in St. Louis in 1970.
If Cashman can sell this to Jorge, I see it as the ideal solution: Joe G. gets his “catcher’s catcher,” and Jorge gets to catch, say, 30 games in his transition year while focusing on hitting, keeping his body rested, extending his career and playing alongside his best friend on the left side of the infield.
HIP, HIP ——
Hate to say it, but ARod and the Yankees are made for each other.
Yes, Alex wanted to test his market value. Yes, he was a moron for the way he went about it. Yes, Hank, Cash, and Levine have told him to get lost. This is NY, and that’s the way business is done sometimes.
This is going to come down to Boras’ best offer minus $21 million. That number may be less than $252 million at the end of the day. Very interesting times. The next deadline is November 7th (the old opt out day): did ARod really opt out? Is there some weird clause that nobody knows about? Why is his website still linked to the Yankees? The next deadline is November 12th (last day of exclusive negotiating with the Yankees).
This isn’t over, not by a long shot. End the posturing, and be unemotional about it. Yankees have the $$$, they have the hole at 3rd. Going FA works two ways: my guess is that ARod’s true market value is around $22-25 million right now, which is less than his current pay. Most GMs and owners know this.
In terms of Po: there is a great 2008 FA catcher market. If he does not re-sign, the problem only lasts for one year. I think 3 years, $42-44 million with a team option is what it will take.
SJ44-
It’s not so much that they have a plan or not.. Its more about what options are really out there?
I mean they could have a plan to play Molina everyday, or bring in Torealba..
But what other options are realistically out there? Some sort of blockbuster trade?
I mean the organization is smart. Im sure they’re looking into everything.. But what options do they really have if Posada leaves?
I think that the Yankees can talk to A-Rod and treat him like a free agent,IF, he agrees that they are going to subtract the money which they would have had from Texas from his new contract. Then, he will be the same as Mo and Posada!
Borass is such an A-hole. Just let him go! He is not worth the headaches. Plus, he would also want another opt-out in his new contract. To go thru all this again in 3 years would be nuts!
Jorge started his career as an infielder. So the idea of him moving to 1st or 3rd, at least part time, to extend his offensive career isn’t totally crazy. The question is whether he is amenable. Piazza dug his heels in, and then waited to long, then dropped off when he did move. This isn’t always the case. Several catchers have transitioned to infield or even outfield spots. Guys like Joe Torre and Yogi Berra come to mind here. The question I’d like to pose here is whether getting a superior defensive backstop, such as free agent Torrealba, and moving Posada to 3rd is worth discussion. Could he play 3rd? Would he be amenable? If yes, there would still be a need to make up some offense, but it would make a longer contract commitment less daunting.
and while i say that A-Rod should be allowed to come back to the yankees after testing the market, what i really mean is that he SHOULD HAVE BEEN allowed to come back after testing the market.
i think they may have burned too many bridges at this point.
there is really only one way for a reconciliation: A-rod would have to fire Boras.
i think Boras really lead his client down the wrong path this time.
There’s always a back-up plan and they definitely would not announce that. Telling the public, we have a plan in case Jorge leaves (which would seem like stating the obvious, to me) would come across as, go ahead and leave Georgie, we have a plan.
The only plan that matters first and foremost is to re-sign him. If they can’t, then plan B will come into play, whatever that may be.
Like I said, 3 years with a team option for a 4th, if and only if they need that option to be competitive. If it’s a team option, does it cost us anything? I’m assuming that’s no risk, but could be wrong if there’s a buyout necessary if we don’t take the option.
Hmmm,
I think the Yankees would entertain bringing back Arod with a market adjustment in place.
Here’s the problem. There is no vehicle in place to know WHAT the market is.
As I posted in another thread, unlike the NFL and NBA, MLB does not require free agent offers to be sent to their office.
In other words, the Yankees would have to go on the word of Scott Boras as to what the offers are for Arod.
I don’t think the Yankees trust he would be telling the truth. Hence, their negotiating stance with him.
I also think they know Boras has a team or two in his pocket with offers for Arod. He wouldn’t have opted out if he did. Its how he works.
The only way the Yankees could be assured of truthfulness in the process would have been for him to not opt out.
Choosing to set his market? Completely his choice. The Yankees choosing not to bid against themselves, a la the Giambi fiasco? Their choice.
Its why its best for both parties to move on. The trust is gone between the two and $$$ isn’t going to get it back.
Oops. Sorry Count. Didn’t realize you were posting the same hypothesis as i was typing.
I just think that AROD does have a right to do what he did. It’s HOW he did it that upsets the Yankee fans. Its so pompous!
I haven’t read everything here but saw a few things that need a response:
(1) A-Rod did have a right to be a free agent. But there was no reason for him not to meet with the Yankees first. He was under contract and he understood that the Yankees could save over $20 million if they could come to an agreement now. When I say “A-rod” and “he,” I include Boras. Boras would be at all these meetings and A-Rod would not be snowed by the Yankees into accepting less than he should. Boras could have still told the Yankees that A-Rod needed to test the market and the Yankees could have told him that as soon as he opts out, their “best offer” goes down $20 million. A-Rod and Boras showed no respected and they walked away.
(2) Mussina — he had a bad year and an awful stretch in late August. Still, the Yankees are paying him for one more year and must hope to get some quality from him. I agree that he should be considered a 4th or 5th starter now, but if he can win 11-14 games with an ERA in the mid-4s, you take it. I certainly hope he can dig deep and find a little something for 2008.
(3) Posada — Yankees should do what they can to sign him for two to three years. If the Mets (or any other team) will give him a fourth or fifth year, then it is time to say good-bye.
Talk about audacity. Alex Rodriguez is a money whore. As smart as Scott Boras claims to be, how can he fail to realize that the Yankees would have given A-Rod more money than anyone else to keep him around. On top of the $$ from Texas.
Man, its been like a breath of fresh air since this clown decided to opt out. Good riddance Alex.
And yet he claims he still hopes the Yankees get involved…sounds like bait. Nope Alex, you’ll get your big contract and you’ll play elsewhere and we’ll be just fine without you and your money bags.
Great minds thinking alike, Strum
Ditto to Chuck on his number 1. That’s how things should have worked. Both sides interests could have been expressed in a professional, ethical, and respectful manner. Any outcome would have then seemed reasonable and if things still ended with Alex, it would have been without rancor.
There is no super, secret plan afoot. Arod has already filed for free agency and has formally notified the Yankees with his written request, per MLB rules.
The November 7 date is meaningless.
Posada doesn’t have the instincts to play third base. That is a reaction and athletic position. The guy is 36 years old! He’s not playing third base.
A possible backup plan? Sign Torrealba as the catcher and have Molina return to back him up. You lose offense but, you gain defensively.
Its better than being saddled with a 4 year contract for a 36 year old catcher.
The Yankees don’t need all stars at every position. I think the folks who are expecting that are in for a rude awakening.
If they can shut the door on Arod, I think its quite clear they aren’t going to put themselves behind the 8 ball with bad contracts.
If they offer Jorge 3 years for 14+ per year, that’s as far as they should go. It would make him the highest paid catcher in the game.
If that’s not good enough for him, bye, bye Jorge and move onto Torrealba.
hmmmmm. I agree 100% with you on the whole Arod thing. But it is a business, and i feel that the yankees are making a business decision in letting him go. Obviously with Arod in the free market and the yankees holding bidding wars, it will drive the price way up. The yankees gave the conditions on what they thought would be a wise business decision on their part and Arod did what he had to do. If i were arod, i would opt out. But I can see where the yankees are coming from. Its all about leverage and risks.
A-Rod leaving lets Posada make any offer he wants.
The Yankees need him, for at least 2 seasons. So he can throw 4 years down on the table without even thinking about it.
Maybe give him 3 years with a player option for a 4th..
I also disagree regarding Posada, Randy I. It seems to me they are negotiating in good faith with Mariano and were willing to pay ARod quite a bit of money to stay. I don’t see them asking anyone except for Joe Torre to take a pay cut. Girardi just signed himself a very nice deal to manage this team. They are going to be generous with Posada as well. If he declines, it is his decision. I don’t think the line to cross with Posada will be dollars; it will certainly be time. That’s why I think it will ultimately get done for too much money, for 3 years with a team option for the 4th. Especially if Mariano signs.
VOIII-
the satisfaction that you are smarter than hank.
seriously, one of the problems with figuring out what’s going on with the yankees is trying to identify a pattern that shows some consistent intelligence behind it. sj44 loves change so much he’d be happy if the yankees pulled a marlins like blow up of the team and rebuilt totally. i wouldn’t even be totally against that. what i don’t like is getting stuck in the middle.
if the yankees would have signed posada last winter to three years at 13 million all would be well. we wouldn’t be talking about a fourth year. but the yankees were stuck in a no extensions rigid dogma and now it’s come back to bite them.
what was cashman’s plan if posada had a good year? move on to a nobody at catcher when 4 years came up? look at how much trouble finding a good back up catcher in 2007. cashman should have extended posada last winter.
he should pay the price and move on to what’s next on the agenda. that’d be mo.
one thing about posada, is that he didnt start catching till 92/93??? He didnt catch in college. So unlike other catchers, that have been catching all their life, posada knees *arent* that bad. Soooooo….take that for what it is worth
I agree 100% hmmmm, Boras is to blame and the only way for A-Rod to come out of it clean is to fire the guy. That won’t happen. We can blame Boras for making the decision and influencing A-Rod, but Alex is a grown man worth a lot of money with a lot of power (leverage). If he is that dumb or insecure that he lets Boras tell HIM what to do, instead of the other way around, that’s A-Rod’s problem……..
here is another question:
isn’t it in the yankees best interests to drive up the price for a-rod even if he signs elsewhere?
the more money the Angels or whoever spends on A-Rod, the less they can spend on other areas of their team.
all else being equal, if the yankees are not going to have A-Rod on their team next year, isn’t it better for the Yankees to make the Angels, definitely the Red Sox, pay as much as possible for A-Rod?
and you guys are getting WAY too hung up on A-Rod refusing to meet with the Yankees. on one hand we rip him for being a phoney, yet you wanted him to meet with the yankees while he still had every intention of opting out? that seems inconsistent.
isn’t it in the yankees best interests to drive up the price for a-rod even if he signs elsewhere?
good point
I think Boras will tell any team that the yankees are bidding just to drive up the price.
But i guess you convinced me.
how many DL appearences has Jorge had in the past few years?
i don’t think any, other than sitting here and there
The yankee position of not negotiating post opt-out revolves around the $30M Texas subsidy. My worst fear as a yankee fan (painfully living in the Boston area) is that once Boras realizes that he overplayed his hand, discounts a package by $30M+ to bring him back to NY and the yanks remain relatively $ whole. Best thing for NY is for the curse of Arod to be signed by the Sox long term, and we get a less expensive Mike Lowell with true leadership qualities and proven ability to perform in October.
I think this is the first time in recorded history I agree with “hmmmnn”
You know, hmmmn, I’m beginning to wonder whether all the Yankees threats about not negotiating with A-Rod if he opts-out isn’t just a clever negotiating ploy.
If the Yankees know A-Rod wants to return, what better way to increase their leverage than to force Boras to return to them and say A-Rod wants to stay in NYC, so much so he’s willing to play for the Yankeees at $21 million below the next best offer to refund the subsidy lost from Texas.
The Yankees then can save face by saying, “We didn’t bid on A-Rod,” as they said all along. “No, the Angels, Giants, etc bid on A-Rod and then he came to us to match it.”
I’m still proposing a publicly announced moratorium on negotiating new contracts with Boras. People have written here that Boras is doing his job. Zealous advocacy of a client’s interests is the definition of lawyerly ethics. They are all too often misunderstood and maligned these days (no, I’m not an attorney). But his behavior is becoming harmful to everyone involved. It’s not at all clear that the way this went down will end up benefiting Alex, even monetarily. Unfortunately, Alex lacks Bernie’s character. The latter knew when and how to cut Boras’s antics short. Given that Boras often (though not always) depends upon the Yanks’ participation in the bidding wars he relishes (and remember that good attorneys know when it’s in a client’s best interest to settle), knowing that the Hankees are automatically off the table would limit the money some of his clients would get and eliminate the possibility of playing in the Bronx. Boras would make less money. Some clients may even choose to take their business elsewhere. Sure, the Yanks could miss out on some opportunities, but it would be worth it. It would be good for the Yanks, good for other agents who handle things ethically and professionally, and also I think good for players who are vulnerable to being abused in Scott’s ego wars. After five years, either Boras will be chastened or marginalized. If not, at least a message will be sent.
The Yankees are meeting with Posada and his agent at the GM Meetings in Orlando next week. They have been negotiating with him and with Mo and his agent.
The meeting next week in Orlando was requested by Posada. That’s why they didn’t meet with him this week.
Perhaps he has family business to attend to.
The Yankees aren’t ignoring him or lowballing him. Geez, their first offer would make him the highest paid player in the game. How is that bad?
As Sj pointed out, how can you trust what Scott says is the next highest? He did after all get Texas to pay 50 million more than the next bid.
Stephen-
It would be quite a coup to take Lowell away from Boston.
Hes an absolute hero over here right now.
You don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
Cutting off Boras clients is stupid strategy.
Its business. Don’t get so emotional about it.
The guy has a great client list. You want good players, you are going to have to deal with him.
It doesn’t mean you do what he wants each time. You pick and choose your battles.
Did anybody ever stop to think perhaps the Yankees just don’t want Arod back?
Either way, you can be sure Boras will go back to the Yankees one final time before signing anywhere. He did it with Betran and he will do it with Arod.
With all the stuff coming out of his mouth in recent days though, it looks like he may have had that door slammed in his face.
Cashman said he regretted not getting the chance to unring the bell and at least make an offer. If the Yanks believe that A-Rod doesn’t want to be a Yankee and that is why he opted out, he’ll reject the offer. If that is the case, all the offer would do is set up someone else to weaken their pocketbook which can’t hurt the Yankees. They’ll never do it because this has now become all about saving face but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I don’t see Lowell even making it to free agency. The Red Sox would be nuts to let him get away.
Next to A-Rod, what is the next highest salary? $23 million a year? Does A-Rod command 30% more, is he 30% better? People were all excited about his RBI’s this year but I think that Mattingly had similar in his heyday. Manny had those numbers. Delgado has had seasons of RBI’s of 134, 137 and 145 before. He is 3 year older than A-Rod but has 431 HR’s and 1374 Rbi’s, A-rods at 518 and 1503 but Delgado makes $14 million a year. A-Rod is better than him but not $16 million more per year!
SJ44 —
3B is an “athletic” position but catcher is not?
It doesn’t make sense to me that a former infielder whose body is conditioned to squatting several hours a night, five nights a week; whose reflexes are sharp enough to backhand an errant fastball out of the dirt; and who is capable of springing to his toes from a nearly seated position in order to throw strikes at second base cannot effectively man the hot corner. It’s not like he’d be playing CF or SS.
Jorge is a physical specimen with quick feet (not speed, mind you, but quick feet) and quicker hands. There have been plenty of great third basemen his age and older.
“on one hand we rip him for being a phoney, yet you wanted him to meet with the yankees while he still had every intention of opting out?”
I think ripping him for not meeting with the Yankees has more to do with his and Boras’ comments now that he still loves NY… meaning, if you love it here and don’t want to leave, why not meet first, then decide about the opt-out.
Why is that Mariano and Jorge are the ones who have to request the meetings and not the Yankees
SJ44-
They really would be. That would put a bad taste in a lot of Sox fans mouths..
SJ,
It’s not emotions, it’s ethics. We can get around Boras clients for a year or two. If things improve, the moratorium can be shortened. And this could affect his client list. Firing back at him in this way is a business strategy. It impairs his power and attempts to instill a more professional environment.
You might not think it will work, but calling it stupid, emotional, and throwing out cliches (noses, faces, etc.) is significantly below the standard of your posts.
Unless you are in love with Crede as a first base solution.
“2 are even, 6 are odd = 26 total number of Yankee pennants”
i wouldn’t want you as my accountant, but i’ll give you that you are creative.
would it not have been better for cashman to have signed posada last winter for 3 years and 39 million? this is the pattern i’m talking about. didn’t the yankees think about what they would do if posada had a good year? cashman’s no extensions policy was simplistic. i think many of the yankee plans are simplistic and rigid. that’s the pattern i see.
then they throw cash at the problem, like signing clemens, as the back up when things go wrong.
“I think this is the first time in recorded history I agree with “hmmmnnâ€
”
hey, there’s a first for everything
SJ44,
Totally agree with your 11:56 post.
The only thing that I can fault the Yankees for is the very public repeated announcement that they “wouldn’t pursue Alex in free agency”. That should’ve been done in private.
Otherwise, everything that Boras is saying is BS and he’s not fooling anyone, but a couple of people on this blog. Boras threw Alex’s only Yankee friend under the bus.
Why is there very little clamoring to get Alex back? Clearly he’s more valuable than Mariano, Andy, and Jorge. It’s because people just don’t care, even if he did it properly and waited the ten days there’d be more sighs of relief than cheers. It just didn’t work out and only fools wouldn’t recognize that.
Girardi said it best AND set the tone by saying they’d miss his production. Never said they’d miss Alex the person. Chemistry is essential to championship teams and I feel A-rod did everyone a favor.
Chris NY
It was a no win situation either way if the end result was he opted out. If he met with them first it would be spun that he didn’t really want to stay in NY and was just using the offer to drive up his price.
I think that Boston will resign Lowell but sign ARod for SS and get rid of Lugo.
“all else being equal, if the yankees are not going to have A-Rod on their team next year, isn’t it better for the Yankees to make the Angels, definitely the Red Sox, pay as much as possible for A-Rod?”
my thinking totally. the yankees should stay in the game just to drive up the price ,if nothing else, for competitors.
And this could affect his client list.
You realize that there are 29 other teams and that not everyone wants to play for the yankees….I think cutting off Boras would not be a wise decision and im pretty sure that nobody in the yankees org thinks that way…i hope not
You don’t need to have a moratorium on Boras clients for ethics reasons. You just pick and choose the guys you want from his stable.
They had no problems reaching deals with Ian Kennedy and Andrew Brackman with Boras. They always got deals done with Bernie, etc.
They have always done business with him. Just because they didn’t reach a deal with Arod doesn’t mean you ban Boras.
You can’t do business like that. Its foolish.
As far as not signing Posada in ST, what’s really changed? The offer he has on the table makes him the highest paid catcher in the game.
There is no way you put that offer on the table for him in ST. He had the year of his life this season.
Suppose he hit .250 this season? Would you have wanted to be stuck with that contract?
Second guessing Cashman on that situation is playing the result. Going into ST, I don’t know of a single team that would give a 35 year old catcher a 3 year deal.
The Tigers didn’t extend Pudge, who is a year older than Posada. They just picked up his option and Pudge is a Hall of Famer.
Let’s offer Arod a contract like Torre’s. How about 10 mile a year and 1 mil for every post season RBI.
Even if A-Phoney wanted to come back to the Yankees, it’s too late now and it has nothing to do with mgmt not making a deal with him. He has so alienated the fan base with his behavior (via his agent) that I think he’d get booed regardless of what he did.
As far as I’m concerned, A-Liar is dead to me. I think he’s dead to many other Yankees fans as well. The Angels can have him.
dead
If Boston signs A-Fraud, they are bigger idiots than I thought. Signing A-Choker proves that Boston’s only concern is trying to be better than us. How lame is that?
As far as I’m concerned, A-Liar is dead to me. I think he’s dead to many other Yankees fans as well.
untill he hits a grandslam to win a game in april and then we will love him again….its how baseball works
First off, Alex has every right to test the market. That said, the Yankees have every right to show no interest in signing him. They wanted Alex back on their terms and once Alex opted out, it is their right to turn the page. Going public with that strategy ahead of time was neither foolish, not was it shortsighted. The Yankees weren’t going to let Boras a Alex drive the process and the only way to do that was for Alex to accept an extension.
Boras is ridiculous for trying to compare Alex’s situation to Mo and Jorge’s and even more idiotic to drag Mo’s name through the mud. Alex had three years left on his deal and chose to become a free agent, while both Mo and Jorge wanted extensions int he spring. Big difference. Mo has quietly gone about his business and performed at an elite level his entire career and will go down as arguably the best at his position, just like Alex. Unlike Alex, he has a postseason resume that is outstanding and four rings to show for his efforts.
Good riddance to Alex as I hope he enjoys himself out in Cali or wherever Boras chooses for him to go.
Laura
He was booed before and 54 HR’s turned all the boos into MVP chants. It would happen again if he put up the numbers.
Trade Matsui to the Mariners for Adrian Beltre and Ryan Rowland-Smith (lefty reliever).
I don’t think it’s a no-win situation at all. It’s business. If you have interest in staying, you listen to what the Yankees want to do. It was the Yankees asking for the meeting. If after that meeting he decided the offer wasn’t enough to keep him from testing the market, then he opts out, he looks no worse than he does now, but I think certainly better.
I’ve heard a million times over the last week (including from myself), that he didn’t even bother to listen, so he must have wanted to leave. If that’s not the case, then he did do himself harm by not taking the meeting or at least returning a phone call. If it is the case (he wanted to leave), then none of it really matters except he looks like a prick for not at least having the courtesy to return the calls and decline the meeting.
“would it not have been better for cashman to have signed posada last winter for 3 years and 39 million? this is the pattern i’m talking about. didn’t the yankees think about what they would do if posada had a good year? ”
he didn’t just have a good year though, he had a historically great year for a catcher of his age.
i think you are discounting just how improbable Posada’s season was. the guy had a career year at 36. i don’t think the yankees were foolish to wait and see, but they wound up getting burned and now it’s going to cost them. but that is the luxury of having deep pockets. if posada got hurt in April, the yankees would have dodged a bullet.
it’s pretty easy to judge these things in hindsight.
also, posada’s season was somewhat of a fluke. he hit .393 on balls in play. his BA was 60 points higher than his career averages. when his BA comes down next year, his numbers will still be fantastic, just not historically so like this year.
i don’t know, i still think he’ll be back.
is anyone keeping count on all the super clever A-**** nicknames people are coming up with here for ARod?
Also, let’s not forget that Boras works FOR Alex and his comments are and extension of Alex. If Alex does not appreciate the way that his employee, Boras, is doing business, he can call his agent and tell him to tone it down. In this case, Alex’s silence speaks volumes (as does his no-show at the Hank Aaron ceremony).
Do you really want to pay 200+ million for a guy that is disrespectful to the game and an all-time great because he isn’t man enough to show up and answer some ‘tough’ questions?
“i wouldn’t want you as my accountant, but i’ll give you that you are creative.”
i wish my accountant used a fibonacci sequence to show my investments patterns.
Matsui has a full no trade. He isn’t going anywhere.
If you think he would want to go to Seattle because Ichiro is there, forget it. They dislike one another.
Matsui has a full no trade? WTF, that’s insane.
Wanted to read all of the posts before posting but I’m running out of time. The Mets are serious about A-Rod – David Wright was on Jon Stewart and said he would be willing to move if A-Rod came. That was after management told him to be quiet yesterday when he earlier expressed dismay. Jorge is not happy about Girardi. I don’t think it is only a catcher-catcher thing. Jorge was very tight with Gary Tuck (Yankees previous catching coach), Girardi took Tuck with him to FL as his bench coach and Tuck was the one who yelled at ownership from the dugout. Tuck is now with the Red Sox. Girardi also is constantly amazed by Jorge’s continued production and Jorge has to feel he would be in an awkward position. I’ve always felt Jorge was more of a captain than Jeter and he has been hurt now not only by the team but also by the new manager. OK, press conference is starting – following MMD (on YES) will have the 20 top sports figures in NY as voted on by fans. Only 3 won’t be there – 2 of them are George and A-Rod, can’t remember the 3rd.
Joe Monte, he can waive it and most likely would
Alex Rodriguez is the 21st Centuries version of Ty Cobb. He’s all about the money and the stats. He doesn’t care about the team. Unlike the Pettite, Posada, and Rivera who have always been honored to wear the pinstripes. I suspect Boras didn’t expect the backlash from fans in the media. Fans seem to be red hot about ARod and see him as a greedy, over paid, malcontent (i.e. the lonely yankee) who didn’t live up to his reputation. The way he died in the post season made me think of the blacksox. How does the “Hope Diamond” become costume jewlery in the post season the way ARod did over the past four years. Was this his way of getting back at Yankee fans after booing him in 1996? I’ve been a Yankee fan since the sixties. I never liked Reggie. I like ARod even less. Hope Girardi brings a little bit of Billy Martin back to the team.
“That’s why I think it will ultimately get done for too much money, for 3 years with a team option for the 4th.”
i hope that’s what happens., but i’d say that it’s 50/50 that jorge stays becuse of the mets involvement. i think it’s underestimated how he internalized the slight to bernie and the unwillingness of the yankees to extend himself. posada is very strong- willed individual. it’s not an accident he had his best year after feeling slighted.
i think he’s going to play hardball with the yankees. even if it’s jorge’s choice to to wait a week to start negotiations, that ‘s in his favor. the closer he gets to other teams being able to bid for him the more he has leverage over the yankees.
Jorge is so unhappy about Girardi, he informed the Yankees (via Buster Olney, who has GREAT Yankee sources) that he wants to return.
He wants to see what’s out there in the marketplace but his goal is to return to the Yankees. Olney just said it a few minutes ago on ESPN.
Don’t believe everything you read about Girardi and Posada.
“They had no problems reaching deals with Ian Kennedy and Andrew Brackman with Boras. They always got deals done with Bernie, etc.”
this is really the problem with trying to “cut off” Boras: he has so many of the top draftees as clients.
and by having Boras as their agent, sometimes these draftees fall further down in the draft. generally where the yankees tend to have picks.
Boras’ tactics are completely in the yankees’ best interests when it comes to the draft. there is not a single person here that disagrees with the yankee strategy of drafting “signability” guys.
Boras giveth and he taketh away.
Why would Matsui waive his no trade? Because fans want him to?
He loves playing in NY. He isn’t waiving his no trade to go to a place he doesn’t want to go to.
He only wants to play for the Yankees. He isn’t going to get traded.
While I think A-Rod made a huge mistake in not going about the opting out in the right way, the Yankee comments could have been much different — The Yankees should have said something like this:
“We are sorry to see Alex opt out. As we said during the season, we will not negotiate a contract after he opts out.
“For now, we are evaluating our alternatives for 2008. While Alex is a special player, the Yankees reached six world series and won four of them in the decade before he got here. If we decide to speak with Alex’s agent in the future, we are sure he understands that we will need to take into account the $21 million we will not be receiving from the Texas Rangers because of Alex’s decisions.”
Express disappoint, tell him that we don’t need him, but leave the door open.
where’s Hank and Hal ? Pete what’s going on ?
The Yankees aren’t cutting off Boras, he did them a favor by taking a huge headache off their hands.
In other news, Papelbon would “love to have A-rod as a teammate”. Wonder if Alex knows how to river dance. Still lol on that one. He makes Manny look tame.
“He wants to see what’s out there in the marketplace but his goal is to return to the Yankees. ”
exactly like a-rod.
(ducks and runs away…)
“Unlike the Pettite, Posada, and Rivera who have always been honored to wear the pinstripes.”
They may not have been so honored if the pinstripes didn’t come with a little green too. None of those guys gave the Yankees a discount.
Giambi # 25 is on loan until your butt is gone
MEANWHILE, where is Hank and Hal ?
Boras didn’t pull these kinds of stunts with Bernie, and Bernie knew when to step in and take control.
Sometimes sound ethics and shrewd business strategies work together. If Boras didn’t hold such influence, confronting him would be purely emotional. But his problematic behavior as a negotiating counterpart merits confrontation in order to prevent further abuse that is detrimental from a business standpoint and to the culture of the game.
Teams often have particularly positive and negative relationships with different agents. These relationships informally contribute to the make-up of teams. I am suggesting something formal and public as a long term strategy.
The New Yorker profile clearly showed ways in which Boras has benefited players coming out of the draft who heretofore had no protection and were dictated to by teams. It also highlighted ways in which he is becoming a problem for the game.
I don’t believe that the Yanks declaring a temporary No Maas will cost them in ways they cannot afford. Yankee money has been at times a negative influence on the game. This is one place it could be a positive one.
PS
SJ, again with the “foolish”. Again, disagree. But come on, such unnecessary modifiers clearly don’t position you as an authority on ethical discourse or effective rhetoric.
Usually I think SJ stands for Sound Judgment, even when I disagree. Why today does it seem to stand for Sanctimonious Jargon? I prefer the former model, which generally employs rationale as opposed to facile dismissal of opposing opinions. What this “PS” is also meant to demonstrate is how negative ethics are contagious and often snowball. Witness how I just sunk to your level. No Maas.
“untill he hits a grandslam to win a game in april and then we will love him again….its how baseball works”
Not for me. I’m a very unforgiving person. You screw me over once, I’m through with you. A-Dog isn’t even on my radar anymore. Well, except to bash on here. LOL!
What number is he wearing?
hmmmm,
You’re fighting a losing battle here.
Jorge did it properly by filing for free agency after the world series, not during. (that’s a joke guys)
So sweet about Joe’s father (who’s suffering Alzheimers) says “Oh Yeah” when shown a picture of his son as new Yankees manager.
I think many of you are missing the real reason why the Yankees didn’t want Alex to opt out.
The real reason is because of the luxury cap hit the Yankees will take if they re-sign as a free agent whether than nearly extending his current contract.
The extension the Yankees offered wouldn’t have started until this current contract runs out. Therefore the next three years they would still be receiving 7 mil per year and the luxury tax hit wouldn’t be nearly as severe. After those three years the Yankees will be repaying for the stadium so they will not be paying as much in luxury taxes/revenue sharing as they would have been previously.
If the Yankees re-sign Alex at 30+ per year starting next year for the next 10 years thathey would in essence pay 100 mil more for his contract due to luxury taxes.
If I’m the Yankees I don’t negotiate with Alex either if he opts out. It’s basic business common sense.
#27
Buster Olney is fabricating this supposed riff between Posada and Girardi. I was on another site and they did an extensive search on the net and couldn’t find any evidence that Jorge and Joe don’t get along. I think this is Olney trying to generate a story.
Too bad I was hoping he’d change it to 13.
Strummerson, WTF are you talking about the yr. Bernie wanted to test FA, Boras nearly got him traded to Boston, he was touting how Bernie was better career wise than Ken Griffey Jr. he called Bernie the best CF in the game, it took Bernie making a last second plea to Steinbrenner to make an offer to keep him as a Yankee.
“He wants to see what’s out there in the marketplace but his goal is to return to the Yankees.”
This is the kind of thing that gives Boras’ remarks some validity. That’s a statement that the Yankees decided A-Rod was not allowed to make.
What a wonderful day. Listening to Joe’s “coronation.”
Here’s what I think might happen:
Alex will demand Boras meet with the Yankees, and will essentially admit to this being a mistake (opting out).
Or, Alex might fire Boras. This would be like Darth Vader throwing the Emperor down the shaft of Death Star II in Return of the Jedi.
I believe Alex is a good person. I think he is overly sensitive, under-confident, narcissistic, and has acceptance issues.
But I think this may be a situation where he says enough is enough. I don’t think he wanted to opt out but was under Boras’ influence.
If all follows in this direction, I believe he sits down with Jeter, the two have it out once and for all, and then he goes back to the Yankees.
“Boras didn’t pull these kinds of stunts with Bernie, and Bernie knew when to step in and take control. ”
didn’t he?
Bernie was really close to signing with Boston.
also, that was 9 years ago. there is lot more money at stake now and Boras is that much more powerful.
Buster Olney covered the yankees for the nyt. If you read his book, you will realize the great number of sources he has.
CAshman looks like he wants to kick Sweeny Murti’s a.. for that question
“if posada got hurt in April, the yankees would have dodged a bullet.
it’s pretty easy to judge these things in hindsight.”
i agree. this high stakes game of guessing on long range contracts is a matter of probability. no one is right even most of the time. what i see happening is that the yankees were going by a principle and a plan when they chose not to extend posada. i think it would have been better to amend the plan and make an exception, because too many things would be coming to a head in the weeks after the 2007 world series.
this is what’s happening. it’s great for blog traffic, but i don’t think so many things on the table at once help the negotiating position of the yankees.
everything affects everything else and it gets complicated. but sign posada and all’s well ,until mo comes up. oh yeah, he’s up too. and if the yankees don’t sign posada, his price skyrockets because the yankees would end up needing him even more. see what i mean?
jennifer,
Not me. I hate that number because I’m superstitious. And A-rod and Marino both wore it.
If Girardi wore 13 then images of dropped popups and muscled strippers would pop into their heads. When he wears 27, it’ll be a visual focal point for the team.
I find it funny how people are so worried about a decline in our offensive production when we scored the most runs of any team since the 50s or something like that this year. We have no problems getting enough offense from team. Our offense will be fine, even without Arod and Jorge, if it comes to that. I’d like to bring Jorge back but if we cant do it at the right price, we can sign Torrealba or let Jose Molina take over and still have one of the best offenses in the majors.
The biggest issue for us is to improve our pitching and defense, which I think Joba, Hughes, and IPK will be a big part of. Even though they are young, they are still an upgrade from Igawa and the collection of Minor Leaguers(excluding them) we trotted out last year. We need to add depth and talent to our bullpen (from the farm, FA, through trades (Igawa? Giambi?), and/or Japan) and resign Mo and we need to insist the players we add at 3b, catcher (if Jorge is too expensive), and 1b(if there is an upgrade available) are good defensive players. If we can do that, I think we will be fine both next year and for the long haul.
He’s KICKING ass at the presser!!
http://tinyurl.com/ytntad
Here’s a preliminary photo
Like I said before, it is clear that the Yankees wanted Alex back on their terms, not his (or Boras’). Once he opted out, they chose to move on. It really is that simple. Boras isn’t lying for once) when he says that the Yankees can still talk to Alex, but the problem is that the Yankees don’t want to talk to him.
The page has been turned, let’s move on.
Or, Alex might fire Boras. This would be like Darth Vader throwing the Emperor down the shaft of Death Star II in Return of the Jedi.
Does this make Jeter Obiwan
And who is Padme? His wife or the stripper
What about Jar Jar? Would that be Melky
What was sweeney’s question?
Very short press conference, too many questions on Joe T. This was about Joe G.
Warner Wolfe is still alive? how knew!
“I find it funny how people are so worried about a decline in our offensive production when we scored the most runs of any team since the 50s or something like that this year. ”
and why do you think that was?
What color is his hair today?
Also, as for Boras, our entire drafting strategy centers around signing exactly the type of draftees he controls. It would be the height of stupidity to cut that off because we are upset Arod opted out.
Yup, Girardi’s wearing that Yankee uniform well.
hmmmm, i’m not questioning that Jorge and Arod played a big role in our offensive production this year, I am just saying we don’t need the same level of production to be a world championship team and in fact there are other factos (pitching and defense) that are probably more important. I don’t have the time to do the research, but I would be you with less than 5 exceptions every single team that has won the world series has scored less runs than we did last year.
“Second guessing Cashman on that situation is playing the result. Going into ST, I don’t know of a single team that would give a 35 year old catcher a 3 year deal.”
sj44-
you know i was all over cashman in the spring for not extending posada and rivera. there’s no second guessing going on when you say it ahead of time. i did.
i’ll also say the yankees should be trying to get contracts for wang and cano to take some of their post free agency years off the table. you want to develop young players. what about signing them ahead of time the way cleveland does?
That does it. Pettitte’s retiring.
Every prediction Pete’s made has been wrong. (A-Rod stays, Mattingly as mgr., Yanks over Cleveland). Now he’s predicting we keep our ace. Andy will be back in Texas before the weekend.
Dang it Pete, just shut up.
“what about signing them ahead of time the way cleveland does?”
Yes, because they sure have locked up CC Sabathia already.
“you know i was all over cashman in the spring for not extending posada and rivera. there’s no second guessing going on when you say it ahead of time. i did.”
it’s true, you did.
“i’ll also say the yankees should be trying to get contracts for wang and cano to take some of their post free agency years off the table. you want to develop young players. what about signing them ahead of time the way cleveland does?”
i definitely agree with this strategy, and the time for Cano is soon. Wang, i think i would wait on. he showed some warning signs this year and i would like to see how he pitches this season.
for guys like cano and wang, you can also negotiate during the season too.
Brandon,
What Boras did with Bernie was fair game. He didn’t nearly get him traded to Boston. He got Bernie and offer from Boston. That’s quite different. As you wrote “it took Bernie making a last second plea to Steinbrenner to make an offer to keep him as a Yankee.” I noted previously that Bernie was able to restrain Boras, due to a stronger character than Alex. But according to my recollection of that time, the pleas was not to Stein but to Cashman. Bernie stepped in (unless I am misremembering) at the last minute, called Cashman directly and laid the Red Sox’s offer on the table. Cashman told him he didn’t think they could match it. Bernie asked him how close they could come and Cashman called Stein, then closed the deal with Bernie. Boras succeeded in getting his client near top dollar (many would argue inflated) in the place he wanted to be. But this “success” was largely due to Bernie stepping in and taking control at the last minute. No agent should try and convince his client to offer a home team discount. But he also shouldn’t impede relationships between clients and management. Bernie got the best situation he could have. Boras deserves some credit. Bernie deserves more. Boras’s behavior over the last 2 weeks was destructive and against both his client’s and the team’s interests.
“I don’t have the time to do the research, but I would be you with less than 5 exceptions every single team that has won the world series has scored less runs than we did last year.”
sure, but without posada and a-rod, the yankee will score a LOT less runs next year.
they will have zero power from the right side.
it would take a LOT of pitching to make up the difference, and that won’t happen in 2008. maybe in 2009, but the rookies will probably need a season to break in.
The difference between Posada’s situation and Arod’s? Approximately 30 million on the front end and 280 million overall.
Big difference. Longer term, more money, the Texas subsidy.
The two situations aren’t the same, regardless of the spin coming from Scott.
Also, Posada has no problem retruning phone calls from his employers. Arod and Boras clearly do.
It really is two different situations.
Again, no problem with Arod wanting to set his market. But, by doing so, he knows that ends his Yankee career. Again, his choice.
The Monk-
Well, about Pets predictions.. Those were the predictions of most of the sports people..
It’s not like his predictions were incredably far fetched or something..
Some bit of news the Yankees ARE talking to Jose Molina and want to retain him so he isn’t floating in the wind so to speak.
Gotta love once again that he nails Alex and Boras for not even talking
It was a win-win for the Yankees. Alex wants to come back? Fine that means you’re committed and we’ll give you a nice extension to show our appreciation. You don’t want to come back? Thank you for the great years that you gave us and best wishes to you and your family. Great player but big distraction. So either way the Yankees win.
I agree with Hmmm. I would look into doing a longer term deal with Cano during next season. But, I would hold off on Wang.
Can’t do that with Wang yet.
PBL,
Point taken over here at “the height of stupidity” from the depths of your sagacity. Sigh. The “signability” game certainly works in the Yankees’ favor. SO work with his draftees, but not free agents. I think Boras’s advocacy on behalf of institutionally vulnerable amateurs trying to assert their value in the professional marketplace is an imperfect correction in an imperfect system.
I am confused dont the Yankees have some negotiation to do this off season with Cano and Wang. I thought they only signed one year deals and are arbitration eligible.
No surprise that Hank and Hal were not at Press Conference.
Cashman knows that keeping them out of the press makes his job easier.
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looks like it’s only bold, italics, strong, and links that work anymore. Could be a different code, but since I’m not a programmer, i wouldn’t know… I’ll look around some more.
“Keith Law: (1:35 PM ET ) Something is definitely fishy there, because Boras never makes a move that’s not in his (or his player’s) economic interest, and that appears to be what’s happened here. He may have a better offer in his back pocket – it does happen, even though everyone will deny it. Or there could be something else. It’s hard to explain him not taking the Yanks’ offer, though. ”
Interesting…and I am even reading that the Angels are willing to offer only $20 million. I think that is a farse, but who knows what the market will be like. So what Law is saying is that Boras kind of screwed the pooch as it relates to A-Rod’s economic interest. He’ll get plenty of money somewhere. But who cares.
Good reporting, Pete. Every time I have a wonder about what is going on with a certain aspect of the Yankees organization, I come on to your blog and you have answered it already
-strikethrough-
Why is wfan talking to Joe T on the day when Joe G became manager. THis is getting annoying. They were all running Joe out of town, now they all kiss his butt. ENough is enough. He isn’t the manger anymore. Show Joe G SOME RESPECT!!!
I’m hearing a story is about to break the Alex is not happy w/ Bor-RRRRat is contemplating firing him .. does anyone have a link to this yet ?
“Wang, i think i would wait on. he showed some warning signs this year and i would like to see how he pitches this season.”
actually i agree waiting a while longer for wang because no one knows if the sinker is coming back like it used to be. i liked guidry, but i think he caused wang to lose the sink on his sinker by having wang mess around with so many sliders. if the sinker comes back like before, he needs to be signed.
The other grievous shortcoming in the Yankees stance toward A-Rod is how it hampers them in acquiring a replacement.
If teams like the ChiSox and the Marlins know the Yankees have forsaken the A-Rod option, their bargaining leverage in trade discussion increases.
K.Williams and Beinfest, for Crede and Cabrera respectively, e.g, will insist on multiple prospects because they know the Yankees are desperate to obtain a 3B.
Had the Yankees left the door open for A-Rod, the threat of re-signing him would discourage William and Beinfest from demanding as much, knowing the Yankees have another option.
Bad tactical moves on both sides in this divorce. And what’s more, as in any divorce, both sides bear some fault for the rift.
The Yankees would be better served by refraining from playing the scorned lover. With Boras, it’s never personal, it’s only business.
Here’s the video of Alpha Dawg’s News Conference
Yeah Baby! Out with tea, in with the Jack
http://snipurl.com/1t0j2
(“THIS IS THE NEW YORK YANKEES!”) emphasis original
Clip runs 8:28
Don’t believe that Arod is going to fire Boras.
If he does that would be a bigger story than anything in baseball this season.
The likelihood of that happening is ZERO.
Only way that happens is if Scott stole money from him and he doesn’t need to do that.
Jennifer
WFAN had the 20 greatest NY sports personality show planned months before the Girardi press conference. It wouldn’t surprise me if YES isn’t going back to MMD because it’s Torre on. Instead we get a rivoting interview wih Lon Trost?
randy I.
You think that the Yankees reluctance to give a 36 year old catcher a 4 or 5 yera deal is a sign that the team is in disarray? It’s actually quite the opposite.
You’re clinging to the past – it’s not 1998 anymore.
Agreed SJ, never happen.
Boras has played the role of surrogate father for A-Rod. And remember, if Alex, as FatDog says, has an Achilles Heel it’s origin stems from his father abandoning him when he was a kid. I hate popular psychologizing, but it would account for why A-Rod so desperately needs approval and is the most insecure genius (at baseball, that is) ever to grace the diamond.
ah okay thanks Pat.
SJ44 I’m waiting to hear if it’s legit, but some posters on the NYYFAN board just varified they heard it on
its MLB.com baseball channel tv that is discussing it right now..
Arod is upset the way this whole thing was handled and is debating firing Boras
Ya A-Rod won’t fire Boras.
A-Rod isnt a guy to take care of his own affairs. He likes having a guy who will walk and talk for him.
hey guys – the code on this blog has changed. The old ways of putting up bold and italics and links have been switched to HTML – bracket b endbracket, bracket i endbracket, and the bracket a href equals quote link endquote target equals blank or same or top endbracket name of link and bracket slash a endbracket – sorry for spelling it out, but when I try to post literals, it makes it bold, italic or as a link.
Torre is surprised Arod opted out and wasn’t happy with what happened Sunday night. Good to see Torre saying that.
All in all, it sounds like upon reflection Torre is a lot less angry at the Yankees than he was earlier.
Probably because he has 15 million reasons in LA not to be upset. lol
I hope he does well in LA. It was time for a change with the Yankees but, I bear no ill will toward Torre.
Joe Torre and Joe Girardi are two of the most eloquent managers I have ever heard speak.
Still Love Torre, this interview only reaffirms it. I miss him already.
The other grievous shortcoming in the Yankees stance toward A-Rod is how it hampers them in acquiring a replacement.
If teams like the ChiSox and the Marlins know the Yankees have forsaken the A-Rod option, their bargaining leverage in trade discussion increases.
K.Williams and Beinfest, for Crede and Cabrera respectively, e.g, will insist on multiple prospects because they know the Yankees are desperate to obtain a 3B.
Had the Yankees left the door open for A-Rod, the threat of re-signing him would discourage William and Beinfest from demanding as much, knowing the Yankees have another option.
Bad tactical moves on both sides in this divorce. And what’s more, as in any divorce, both sides bear some fault for the rift.
The Yankees would be better served by refraining from playing the scorned lover. With Boras, it’s never personal, it’s only business
I would think better of Alex if he did fire Scott and held a press conference apologizing for disrupting the world series, and for opting out. tell us you’ll do 5/100 and we’ll sign up. I’ll take back all bad i’ve said about him.
He would win over and back alot of Yankee fans if he did that.
This is a another test
http://s9.photobucket.com/albu.....resser.flv
“All in all, it sounds like upon reflection Torre is a lot less angry at the Yankees than he was earlier.”
Thats was my impression when he was on letterman. Especially when he kept reffering to the yankees as in term of “we” “our” and stuff.
I think Torre will be back at yankee stadium sooner then we expect when they retire his number 6
sunny615-
why isn’t the HTML picking up embed coding?
From ESPN
Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon would be happy to have Alex Rodriguez as a teammate.
Paging Lost And Found
Jason Varitek said he gave the last ball from Boston’s 2007 World Series victory to Jonathan Papelbon, right. The closer’s agent said Papelbon does not know where the ball is. What gives? Story
“Personally, I would love to have him come on just so I don’t have to pitch to him,” Papelbon said Wednesday night on the “Late Show with David Letterman.” “But, you know, I think the fans in Boston might think otherwise.”
doesnt arod need boras as much as hilary needs bill?
Acula – not all HTML code works (strikethrough, subscript, superscript, images, etc) so I think they’re being restrictive on what code is allowed.
In other news:
From ESPN:
Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon would be happy to have Alex Rodriguez as a teammate.
Paging Lost And Found
Jason Varitek said he gave the last ball from Boston’s 2007 World Series victory to Jonathan Papelbon, right. The closer’s agent said Papelbon does not know where the ball is. What gives? Story
“Personally, I would love to have him come on just so I don’t have to pitch to him,” Papelbon said Wednesday night on the “Late Show with David Letterman.” “But, you know, I think the fans in Boston might think otherwise.”
Very subtle.
10 straight minutes of commercials on YES just so they didn’t have to broadcast the Torre interview.
Brian (MA): Biggest name traded this winter will be ______ to the ________?
Keith Law: (1:16 PM ET ) Miguel Cabrera … the Yankees have the greatest need/incentive to get him, but I’m not sure they have the means.
No kidding.
sunny,
Did you catch the Sean Henn question? I mean, come on.
gargoyle-
posada is a really good overall catcher right now in the present tense and should be an above average catcher at the position for at least two more years because there is a total shortage of good catchers out there. they are not spitting them out of the minor leagues for some reason. years three and four i would expect him to be at least league average and maybe better.
some players are good at 40. look at lofton. look at fisk. finley. posada to me would make a great manager when his career is over. if this is true , there is a lot more going on with posada than just his hitting , and he knows how to show up when it matters. to me he’s a second captain out there.
give him the money.
Lot of Yankees questions with Keith Law
Nick (Long Island, NY): Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, and Dellin Betances for Miguel Cabrera?
Keith Law: (1:21 PM ET ) Reasonable, but the Marlins like power arms, of which Kennedy is not one. I bet they love Betances, though. I wonder if the Yanks can get Humberto Sanchez on a mound somewhere.
If Mike Lowell files for free agency, I would expect the Yankees to offer big money and 4 years.
The reason? It only costs them draft picks. Perhaps, the draft picks they get for Arod.
If the Red Sox re-sign him, they look at other options.
But, you have to think Lowell is Option 1 right now.
Sunny,
I wouldn’t make that deal for Cabrera. I don’t see the Yankees giving up Dellin Betances. He may have the highest ceiling of any pitcher in the organization.
Why would the Mets offer a 37 year-old catcher a 4 or 5 year deal considering they’re in a the non-DH league? They had the same problem with Piazza. I can see them offering Po a contract, but a 5 year deal for an old catcher makes sense if you can DH him – the Metropolitans can’t.
I find it weird Boras didn’t use the 10 days to negotiate with the Yanks, drive up their fever-pitch and either a) sign the extension if it were astronomical or b) take A-Rod to free agency knowing the Yanks might follow based on how the negotiations went. It’s not like the Yankees initial offer would be their only offer and I don’t think it’s that hard for Boras to predict market value for A-Rod without taking him free agency – he’s a smart guy and knows where every team’s payroll stands – he’d could’ve negotiated with the Yanks for the 10 days with a number in his head.
get ready I feel a big breaking story is about to surface, I can’t say right now just stay tuned.
Boras/Rod throw Mo under the bus but Rod can’t understand why he isn’t being treated like the Prodigal Son and taken back?
Scott Boras and his client decided that the client should quit. So, the client quits to test the labor market. QUITS. The employee quit without showing any interest in the pay increase his now former employer would have given him to keep him from quitting, and with the full knowledge that his now former employer said that quitting would be the end of the line with his former company.
The former employer respects the former employee’s right to quit but says that he owes this former employee nothing, and will not seek to rehire a former employee who quit and who spurned his request for a conversation about an extension to avoid the quitting. The former owner says the former employee showed that he didn’t want to continue to work there and well, godspeed and good luck to him at his new job.
Apparently Boras now has a problem with the former employer having the freedom to pick and choose which former employees he wants to try to retain. As I see it, when a person quits their job, they are taking a big risk that the former employer may not take them back. For this reason, people I know who have quit their jobs have always tried leave on good terms so that just in case things don’t work out, they would be welcomed back if there was an opening. I have, however, seen former colleagues storm out the door and crap on the employer’s feelings because they are so convinced that the market will be kind to them. But when that market is not so kind in fact, that former employee comes crawling back. And if the former employee is lucky enough to be taken back, it’s never at his former salary or position.
Thus, I recommend to all individuals who have quit but want to be taken back that they not insult and demean their employers and that they should be wary of insulting a premier former colleagues, guy by the name of Mo, one that the former employer cherishes and values very highly.
Lowell would be my choice as well.
Pat –
Nice to own your own network!
Girardi seems to be able to inspire confidence. I enjoyed the way he handled this press conference. I also liked hearing from Lon Trost. It’s not someone you usually hear from, so it was fine.
Cashman went so out of his way to compliment Alex. To make sure it was stated how much Alex gave up to come to the Yankees in the first place. It surely does not sound like the door has definitively been shut AND locked. At any rate, no one can say that the Yankees bad-mouthed ARod.
Also, it looked like Cashman swallowed a smile when Kim Jones asked about Mariano, and then gave the line about talking is the first step in negotiations. But, I don’t think anyone really knows what Andy Pettitte will decide and it sounds like Cashman is prepared for Andy to retire, even though he doesn’t want him to.
That was my take, anyway. Michael Kay seemed to think Arod really did like playing in NY, but kind of misplayed this whole thing, thinking he could get his market value and then offer the Yankees that $30 million hometown discount from whatever it was the highest bid was. But like someone said, how could you ever trust the numbers from Boras, if you’re the Yankees? And how could Alex be so naive?
Anyway, came away from the press conference at least feeling positive about the new manager.
That would be insane if Arod fired Boras
murphydog –
I like your interpretation of the circumstances. Taking the $$ out of it, puts it in perspective.
Doreen could not diagree more.Cashman is a gentleman but they are moving on. He said they are moving on Arod is done with the Yanks, adios AROD>….
Brandon,
Enough with the mysteries. Either spill it or don’t. Its probably nothing, we’ll hear rumors all year long.
Jagshemash! My name is Borat. I agent of great New York lover of she-male, A-Rod. He have house in sky and have many hawks. His wife is Niiiiiiiice!!! I like!!!!
I tell A-Rod to opt out of contract. His bat hang like sleeve of wizard and he need to go to Boston to get tears of gypsy to break curse of the dreaded Trotting Richard Nixon.
Once Alex break spell, we will take money from the Boston team of great champions and buy a farm in Kazakhstan to make explosions from farm animals.
We can provide excellent quality potassium in exchange for fellow Kazakh bull-tamer, Derek Jeter.
Is good deal. You like?!?!?!? GREAT SUCCESS!!! High Five!!!
SJ 44 is right there is no way arod fires Boras, he has a abandonement isssue arod and borass is his daddy figure. no friggin way. if arod did that he would be howing some balls and he has none..
No way…..
Peter Gammons, in his column today, said the Yankees “may lose A-Rod” when referring to the whole Miguel Cabrera trade possibility. Did you guys check out the comparison of Miguel and Alex through age 24? Not sure if Miguel came in at a younger age which is a definite possibility, but they are strikingly similar. Won’t continue this way unless Miguel starts substituting broccoli for all those twinkies.
Stuart -
Oh, I agree that they are moving on. It would be ridiculous not to. I think after the Mo thing it would be an untenable situation in the clubhouse, unless ARod specifically apologizes.
So you think that perhaps by being super-gentlemanly that Cashman was actually bolting the door, rather than leaving it closed, but unlocked?
Kill Schill(ing):
I think the Yankees stance on the opt out cuts both ways. Yes, they are desperate to fill the 3d base spot. But if they were willing to forsake A-Rod, they must be very serious about not overpaying for anything. So while everybody thinks they can rape the Yankees for prospects, the Yankees may just say “no thanks” and go a different way, maybe not replacing a large part of A-Rod’s power with one player like Cabrera.
Boras yeah he will take the wrap for announcing it during the series but Arod is the biggest loser out of this whole ordeal. I mean the World Series ends and an hour later fans are chanting don’t sign Arod. He is taking a major hit from all this and deservingly so.
Murphydog,
Totally agree. But if the right package (and I won’t speculate what that is other than NOT including Joba or Phil), I think you have to seriously entertain Cabrera.
There is no reason for Cashman to badmouth Arod. Its not only not his style, its bad business.
Remember, players see how organizations work. If the organization is classy, that helps attracts players.
Don’t believe this “Arod will fire Boras” fantasies. If he ever did that, it would be the first time in his life he ever made a big decision himself.
Folks spend too much time running with every unfounded rumor out there.
It would rock the entire baseball world if he did it. Which is precisely why he won’t.
Jake:
10-4. Gotta be open to all reasonable deals.
For example, the Yankees traded for A-Rod not because they needed him to replace Aaron Boone’s numbers at 3d base, but because because they got him without paying his whole salary. It was almost a “steal.” So, if they can pull something like that off again, you gotta go for it.
Todd Jones just got richer:
Zumaya underwent surgery on Wednesday
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_.....8;c_id=det
Kim Jones asked the direct question of Cashman “is the door slammed shut”. If Cashman didn’t want to leave room for interpretation he would have said Yes. Might just be trying to drive up the price for other teams now.
Cashman has class and doesn’t burn bridges. That doesn’t mean he’s leaving any door open. He also doesn’t go back on his word, which was “we wish the best for Alex, his wife, and his growing family.” Or something to that effect……
“waiting to the last minute isn’t really a sophisticated approach for arod or posada or for young players like wang and cano..”
Yes. The last minute for wang and cano. They only have three more years to sign them to extensions! Whatever will the Yankees do?
I don’t get how people think the Yankees are waiting until the last minute with Posada. It’s NORMAL for players to reach the end of their contracts and then sign new ones. And they’ve already contacted his reps, more than ten days before real free agency starts. And they’ve set meetings for next week, at Jorge’s request.
Seriously…what are people griping about here?
Doreen at the end of the day I do not think Arod is a malicious bad guy. Jut a greedy(even for ballpalayers) and a total phony. he has no interpersonal skills, look how he intereacts with his teammates and has no real buddies.. again he plays hard, and all that tuff but he is just off…
He is doen, the Ynaks are no longer being Borasses lackeys driving up prices on his talent!!!!!!
O.K. A LOSER wont fire Boras I agree. But wouldnt it be nice if the othe Boras clients came together and all fired him. Therefore all A DUMP would have is boras and vice versa. God what i would pay for that to come true.
murphydog,
That is an excellent, excellent parallel. Best explanation of the whole thing. Alex, Kobe, Barry. They need a group session on how to deal with rejection.
Anyway, Alex will be fine where ever he goes. I just don’t know why he left after finally figuring out New York.
Question – Is Betances a better pitcher than Joba?
Pat,
I can’t see it, what did Cashman say?
Man, Zumaya out until mid-season, at the earliest, 2008. Shoulder surgery is serious stuff.
Some guys are never the same after shoulder surgery. That’s a big loss for the Tigers.
murphydog,
that part of the A-Rod trade might be the single reason it burns me that he left…we could have kept him for a few years at such a solid price.
Otherwise, good riddance.
“I think you have to seriously entertain Cabrera.”
NO, NO, NO and NO.
Miguel Cabrera has gained 75 pounds in the last four years. He does not care about keeping himself in shape. The Yankees already have plenty of players who need to see time at DH in the next several years. Trading away young talent to get ANOTHER one is stupid.
We don’t need a lethal bat. We need two quality bats to put at our corner infield positions. That’s a MUCH better option.
A-Rods not firing Boras for another reason. Boras sued Sheffield, claiming that he was entitled to some ridiculous percentage of Sheffield’s earnings because he “made” Sheffield in Atlanta before Sheffield fired him.
Boras certainly is looking for his slice of whatever A-Rod gets in his next contract. If A-Rod fires him now Boras would certainly claim that he made A-Rod what he is financially. And in A-Rod’s case, I think he has a stronger claim than he had against Sheff. And that would just be the beginnings of the ugliness between those two.
Anybody know what happened to the Boras v. Sheffield lawsuit?
no way a-rod fires borass.
who even brought this up in the first place? that’s like cheaney trying to fire bush.
I heard Jeter has been coaching and consoling A-Rod and has in fact convinced him to fire Daddy and just lean on his new big bro…..
Betances, at this stage of his career, has an unlimited ceiling.
Nardi Contreas has said that he has the highest ceiling of any pitcher he has ever worked with in his career. Even higher than Joba.
That’s a kid you wait on for 2-3 years, then watch out. He’s special. Just has to stay healthy.
I wouldn’t think of trading him for Cabrera. I wouldn’t trade him for anybody right now.
Pat,
If you want to answer SJ44′s Q, go ahead. My take on it was that it was a typical Cashman answer… about 5X as long as it needed to be, but he never said “never”.
And he didn’t repeat the message from the Steinbrenners; he said it was “unfortunate” that they couldn’t talk, and that the time for discussing was during the window.
He did not say “never”.
Murph,
The suit got settled. Basically, the split the difference on the commission. Kind of a win-win ending for both parties.
Zumaya – I’m sorry but you have a million dollar arm, and you injure it moving personal items? What was he lifting, a fridge? A dresser? Can he not afford to pay someone a couple of hundred bucks to move things for him?
In any event, Detroit’s loss is the Yankees gain….
Pat you and I certainly heard things differently. I twas very clear to me that the door was shut on Arod.
The question Kim asked was that Boras said yesterday that they would still like to talk to the Yankees could this still happen.
What Cash said was that the time to talk was before the opt out period and unfortunately that did not happen. he then went on to thank arod for voiding his no trade, changing positions and then wished arod and his family the best.
To me that door is closed
Gayle,
Thats what I’m thinking too.
Sometimes organizations and players will play mind games and such, but it really sounds like the Yankees are done with A-Rod..
I had a big laugh about this one. You ever notice that sometimes it looks like Varitek can’t wait to go back to the dugout after striking out? And he looks totally confused about what just happened.
brandon (DC): If a catcher’s defense/gamecalling is overrated how overrated is Varitek?
Keith Law: (2:40 PM ET ) His gamecalling is definitely overrated – sometimes I wonder if he’s lost four fingers on his right hand.
Cabrera is showing signs of being dragged under by his team. That is a problem not of his weight but his professionalism. Reminds me of Tejada in that regard. If he is playing less than 100% and jeopardizing his career and his team’s chances by porking up, you have to think twice and three times before giving up the farm of him.
On the other hand, his weight should help drive his price down. The Yankees should hang tough on that and question his value and drive. The Yankee attitude should be that Cabrera is damaged goods, and that they would only take a chance on Cabrera if agreed to a diet and conditioning regimen and if his weight goes above X, he can be fined, released, or whatever.
With Zumaya out, could the Tigers be in the market for Farnsworth?
Pat and Bobcat –
That is also what I heard. I was beginning to think I was delusional. Not that I necessarily want ARod back at all. Just saying’ what I heard, understanding we all put our own little spins on everything we hear.
Didnt Betances have season ending surgury. If so, who knows if he will be the same pitcher.
I read somewhere yesterday that Jorge had a player option this year. So is he opting out just like $ man did?
Betances didn’t have surgery. They shut him down when he developed some elbow soreness. He didn’t need surgery.
He’s now throwing in the Instructional League. He’s been hitting 98 on the gun in the IL. They changed his grip on his slider and they are hoping that takes the strain off his elbow. So far, its worked.
Posada had no player option on his deal. He just played out the last year of his contract.
“I read somewhere yesterday that Jorge had a player option this year. So is he opting out just like $ man did?”
There was an option for the 2007 that vested when Jorge reached a certain amount of plate appearances in 2006. He’s as free as a bird…..
I think, right now, aside from a 3B, the Yankees’ biggest concern ought to be the bullpen, no?
SJ
I was working and listening at the same time so I can’t repeat verbatim. I was expecting him to say Yes, that door is closed but instead said that this has all been talked about before. He said people don’t fully appreciate the fact that A-Rod waved his no trade to come to NY and swithed positions to make the move here. Said Alex was responsible for many of the good things the Yankees were able to do the last 4 years. Said our search for a 3rd baseman will continue and we’ll build the kind of team we’re looking for.
I don’t think A-Rod is coming back but it was interesting to me that Cashman didn’t slam the door and end all the speculation.
If you have access to YES later, I’ll bet they’ll repeat the press conference and you can judge for yourself. Might even be on the website.
Zumaya’s out?
The Tigers had Farnsy briefly in 2005. I think they will stay away.
Alex, Kobe, and Barry in the same sentence?? What are the similarities?
Brandon
get ready I feel a big breaking story is about to surface, I can’t say right now just stay tuned.
Mike Francesa said this story began making rounds in the newsroom about a half an hour before ARod opted-out.
I have a feeling Farnsworth is going to a pet project for Girardi.
They are close and Girardi has always liked Farnsworth’s stuff. It will be interesting to see if Girardi can get through to him because I know Farnsworth likes him more than he liked Torre.
Every manager finds somebody on a roster they think they can “fix”. Farnsworth may be that guy for Girardi.
ok what IS the story lol if you all think you know something spill it. Francesa said earlier in the week that a story started spreading but that it couldnotbe confirmed
FYI Girardi’s probably gonna wear #27
SJ44,
Well that’d be nice.
Farnsworth could be a nice piece of the puzzle.
That sounds good on Farnsworth then. Maybe Girardi has the magic key.
Murphydog, sorry but I don’t understand your rebuttal to how the Yankees position on the opt-out “cuts both ways”.
When your negotiation partner is aware you’ve foreclosed an option, his leverage increases because he recognizes he possesses the only alternative.
The Yankees have two means to fill their first base position. Re-sign A-Rod or Trade for a 3b. They’ve foreclosed the first option. Hence, only the latter exists.
Sure, the Yankees could pit one team against another. However, their negotiating leverage is still less than if other teams were reluctant to demand too much for their 3b fear of propelling the Yankees to re-sign A-Rod, for whom they, obviously, would have to relinquish no one.
Please don’t tell me that there are other free-agent 3b the Yankees could pursue. Assuming the Red Sox’s re-signing of Lowell removes him from the market, Wilson Betemit is better than any other alternative. And the Yankees position that Wilson Betemit will start at 3B in ’08 is about as credible as their erstwhile position that Bubba Crosby would start in CF in ’06.
BTW, I went to college with Keith Law. If the man was on fire, I wouldn’t urinate on him.
What story are you referring to Dr. Acula? I’m totally lost.
Rebecca,
The bullpen is a funny animal. I think its almost luck to build a good bullpen. The Red Sox had no idea Hideki Okajima would be as good as he was. It just worked out for them.
I think Jose Veras, Ross Ohlendorf and Edwar Ramirez are definitely in the mix (as internal options) for the bullpen.
Kerry Wood is a guy I would check out. Another guy Girardi is tight with and if he can stay healthy for 60-70 innings, he could be a horse in front of Mariano.
He was hitting 98 on the gun, with a 90 MPH slider (Joba-like stuff) in September for the Cubs.
Used smartly, he can be an asset to a bullpen.
I’ll give you another internal longshot name to consider: Eric Wordkemper. He was the Pitcher of the Year in the FSL last year.
He was unhittable this season and has been lights out in the Arizona Fall League so far this year. He has refined his split and can spot his fastball (91-92) in any count.
He’s 24, so he can get through the system quickly.
He may be a guy whom, if he has a lights out spring, could either make the roster or start the year in AAA. That could put him on track to be in the bullpen by mid-season.
Humbero Sanchez is also throwing off flat ground in Tampa right now. He’s another guy who could be a mid-season bullpen option.
Lots of interesting internal options for the Yankee bullpen.
“I don’t get how people think the Yankees are waiting until the last minute with Posada.”
wow! ten whole days before free agency. plenty of time. no problem. everything always goes the yankee way when the whole league is bidding on a player.
SJ44 -
I brought this up earlier, but Kerry Wood was used much the same way Farnworth was, as I understand it. One inning at a time, and no pitching on consecutive days. I’m just wondering if the Yankees really need to add someone with those restrictions. Now, he may be much improved in spring, but it would be a risk.
_What story are you referring to Dr. Acula? I’m totally lost._
the “story” is ARod will be snared in the Mitchell Report. its just a “story” That said, Mike Greenberg and Francesca have danced around it.
SJ – curious how you rank the top 5 – 10 Yankee pitching prospects ( in the minors ). Care to make a list?
SJ: Wow, I didn’t realize there were so many internal options, but I certainly love knowing that we’ve refueled our farm system; I remember everyone saying how it was completley depleted a few years back.
I would probably keep Veras and Ohlendorf…Ohlendorf especially came on strong, though he seemed to be prone to the long ball. I’m torn on Ramirez. I want to love him, and all, but when he’s bad, he’s….bad.
Kerry Wood is interesting; I remember when he was unhittable as a rookie…I think it would be a bit of a gamble, though. I wouldn’t be unwilling to try it, but I wouldn’t pin my entire ‘pen hopes on him, either!
Anyway, I do think that a) without Torre managing the ‘pen (as much as I love Torre) and b) with the options we have, we’ll be better off in 2008 than we were this year!
Really Doreen, if you run a bullpen well, that shouldn’t be a problem.
Ideally, you don’t want to fall in love with one guy (a real weakness of Torre) and burn the guy out.
Guys that run real good bullpens (LaRussa and Leyland, for example) have a system set up.
They chart warm up pitches, how often guys are up, and they really monitor their work. They work overtime to not overuse guys.
If you have enough confidence in your guys, it shouldn’t be a problem having somebody like Wood in the bullpen.
Obviously, you need one guy who has a rubber arm (you can always find those guys) and it would also be nice if the starters can give you innings.
But, handled correctly, it shouldn’t be a problem working a guy like Kerry Wood into the mix. You just can’t abuse him.
That’s the challenge any manager has when running his bullpen.
I think that kerry woods will turn out to be a roster spot that makes 6million and pitches 15 innings….
E-roc,
Unloved, unwanted, much-maligned superstars. Well, Alex is wanted, but hardly beloved.
Dave,
Pete has asked me to do a minor league wrap up when I have time. At some point, I will.
Work is a bear for me right now but, after the Winter Meetings, I will put something together.
The internal pitching options the Yankees have are really fun to see. There is a lot of talent at all levels of the system right now.
It gives them the chance to package some guys in trades, and keep others for themselves. The key is to know which guys to keep.
What I like most of all is, Gil Patterson, Nardi Contreras, Dave Eiland and the rest of the organization are (finally!) on the same page when it comes to developing pitchers.
That’s REAL important and its something that was missing with the Yankees for a very long time.
I think if there were a chance Arod was in the Mitchell report, there would be no way he would have opted out.
If he’s named in it, it stands to reason he’s going to lose money since steroid/HGH allegations are going to plague him no matter what city he chooses to play in. It’s a bad PR move to sign him in that scenario. It turns him into Bonds and it taints his achievements. He’s no longer the clean poster boy of baseball records. It’s why no one else would touch Bonds other than SF who were basically tied to him until he broke the record.
If that happens, he’s in a really bad place. That kind of negative attention is exactly the kind of attention that makes Arod crumble. He’s not Bonds. Bonds thrives on that kind of hatred. Arod never has and never will.
Dr. A–Wow. Could that be a reason for A-Rod opting out?
Take his money and run?
A-Rod’s staked his reputation on doing what he does while being clean; we all think Boras knows something we don’t…
SJ44 –
I guess I’m so used to the way Torre used th bullpen that I didn’t think you could actually “schedule” relief pitchers. That plus you never really know how a game is going to unfold. I thought they were used situationally. I suppose the biggest key is getting innings from the starters. Could that be a problem with the new guys?
It does sound like Girardi puts a lot of time into prep, so maybe that will change quite a bit next season.
Well it looks like they have named Eiland’s replacement at Scranton. he was the pitching coach for the Mariners this year and was let go when they got rid of the whole staff.
Former Mariners pitching coach Rafael Chaves has accepted an offer to join the Yankees as the pitching coach for the Triple-A Scranton Wilkes-Barre club in Moosic, Pa.
Kerry Wood is somebody that the Yankees could get without breaking the bank. Wood did himself a big favor when he lost weight and got in better shape. He’s back and healthy now and by dropping the weight he let teams know that he is willing to work hard to rescue his career. It probably won’t cost much to sign Wood, and he would be a good option for the Yankees. That fastball still has plenty of life. I’m not sure about his curve these days, though. It used to be amazing.
By the way, anybody know how many days until spring training?
SJ – you are amazing. You mean you don’t scout for a living?
Wood did himself a big favor when he lost weight and got in better shape….
….or was it that same diet that Giambi, Ivan Rodriguez and others had?
DMan – I haven’t seen any reporting dates posted yet. Sometime in early Feb, no? So what – less than 100 days??
Lori-
Sounds about right. I was googling around looking for a countdown clock but I couldn’t find one.
“wow! ten whole days before free agency. plenty of time. no problem. everything always goes the yankee way when the whole league is bidding on a player.”
Wow, when Jorge _told_ his reps to meet with the Yankees next week, I’m not sure what more you think they could have done.
“Hey, Jorge’s agent, we want to get together and discuss an offer.”
“Ok, Jorge wants us to come down there on November 4th.”
“No! Do it now! I don’t care what he says!”
I mean…seriously…
River Ave Blues has a countdown clock.
Kill Schill(ing):
It cuts both ways because the Yankees took a tough stance on A-Rod (and, yes, that left them vulnerable at 3d base), and that means to me that they will take tough stance with trading partners too, not cave in and overpay. The consistent theme is price toughness on the part of the Yankees.
If a team like the Marlins tries to exploit the Yankees’ needs at 3d base by asking for too much in return, then the Yankees won’t try to replace A-Rod in one player at 3d base with the likes of Cabrera. They will pursue other options to replace some of A-Rod’s run production and right handed pop. They could try a combination of a lesser player at 3d, a better righty hitter at 1st base and maybe Andru Jones. I’m not saying that’s the answer, but there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. The Yankees have to be ready to walk way and not be committed to solving their problems in only one way with a trading partner.
As I suggested before, Cabrera is fat and I therefore question his drive and professionalism and thus his price. The Yankees have to hang tough if they want him because he is somewhat damaged even if that damage is mental, a loss of edge and competitiveness. Not to mention the fact that Miguel has already figured out that NY won’t let him be lazy, fat and eat all the twinkies or maduros he wants to and he doesn’t want to come to NY. I don’t think he is the answer, but, then again, some of the same questions apply to Andru Jones. So there are no easy answers.
hmmmm, if the yankees scored 150 runs less this year, which is 15.5% of the runs they scored this year, that’s an absolutely massive amount, they would still have had the sixth best offense in the majors, better than cleveland, the mets, the braves, the brewers, toronto, seattle, the cubs, and the dodgers among others. So like I said, even without Arod and Jorge, we will still have a very good offense.
I just think a lot of us fans have just been spoiled by the fact the yankees have had one of the all time greatest offenses the last several years. Believe it or not, even assuming we let Jorgo go too and add no one
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Matsui
Cano
Cabrera
Betemit
Mientkewicz
Molina
with Giambi and Duncan mixed in too would still be a very strong offensive linup, capable of winning a ws with, provided we had the pitching. Of course, I think and hope the yankees will trot out a better lineup than that next year, I am just trying to demonstrate that the yankees will have no problems being very strong offensively next year.
Kobe is wanted. Somebody will want Bonds, too. Kobe has championships, the other two don’t. There is no comparison. But if u want to say that they aren’t loved, then I guess that’s true too. U might as well through Rasheed Wallace in there.
If Giambi can get/stay healthy, and find his stroke, let’s not forget what he can do and what he did prior to A-Rod even coming here.
BUT, that is a very big IF at this point. Anything we get from Giambi at this point is a bonus, one that we paid $20M for……..
TurnTwo-
Ahh super, thanks for pointing that out.
murphydog –
You’re the first one to call a spade a spade. I have seen all kinds of references to Cabrera’s size, but I believe you are the first to actually use the word, “fat.”
“The consistent theme is price toughness on the part of the Yankees.”
murphydog-
you got that right. the next few weeks with posada and rivera are going to test that theme.
if we take away 150 runs, our runs scored to runs allowed would be 818-777. Which, using the pythagorean winning percentage, we wouldnt be that good. 10 games over 500 maybe?
Anyone know if Fat Man and the Hotdog are going to interview A-Rod for their 20th anniversary special?
Jeff (Cleveland): What is Austin Jackson’s upside and ETA in the Bronx?
Keith Law: (1:41 PM ET ) Two years off, potential All-Star CF.
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bk: I feel like if I dont get in a chat, the Angels arent talked about. Who are the best possible additions the Angels can make in the off-season?
Keith Law: (1:43 PM ET ) It’s a time zone issue. I just don’t get many questions about teams west of the Central time zone. A-Rod would be a ridiculously good fit at 3b. They’re pretty much locked in everywhere else – Kendrick has to play every day at 2b, Kotchman has the 1b job for now, Napoli’s as good as any of the crap catchers out there this winter, they’re stuck with Matthews, and they can’t sign a straight DH because Vlad may need to play there now and then. Rotation looks good, front end of the pen is fine.
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Nolan (NY, NY): Keith, i liked the opening to your chat. I take it you dont like Hilary but would you vote for Giulliani? Tell me about Horne?
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I’ll keep my politics out of it, but I did find the whole flip-flopping bit funny. Horne’s a 4th/5th starter, average fastball, nothing knockout, effort in his delivery, had a lot of injury trouble in college. Nice guy to have, and his #s will help his trade value, but he’s not a guy you make untouchable.
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Noah (Boston. MA): I remember reading an article a couple of years back that said that Robinson Cano’s natural position is 3rd base. Do you think its possible that the yanks would move him there?
Keith Law: (1:47 PM ET ) He’s already said he has no interest, and he’s become a solid defender at 2b, maybe even one grade above average, so I wouldn’t rush to move him.
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Chris (San Diego): What about a Ian Kennedy for Andy Laroche trade?
Keith Law: (1:56 PM ET ) If I’m the Yankees I do that in a heartbeat. Not sure that the Dodgers would trade LaRoche for a kid, although Torre might lobby for Kennedy since he knows him.
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Brian (NY): Mike Lowell for anything more than 3 years is too risky, agreed?
Keith Law: (1:56 PM ET ) Agreed.
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sorry SJ44
Daily News: we reported the yanks trying to trade for crede…if they get him and cabrera is their team actually better offensively and defensivly then they were last year?
Keith Law: (1:57 PM ET ) Am I unaware of some parallel universe where Joe Crede is a good baseball player? Crede is terrible, and he’s coming off a major injury. No thank you.
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Bob (Chicago): Wha?? How is Joe Crede “terrible”?
Keith Law: (2:24 PM ET ) He’s posted an OBP over .311 once in his career. He’s not an everyday player.
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Darrel (Queens,ny): any love for jose tabata? what tabata’s upside?
Keith Law: (1:58 PM ET ) Have to see him recover from this wrist/hand injury first. I think he’s a potential superstar if fully healthy – plus glove and arm in RF with power and patience at the plate.
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Please Answer question (bronx): My question is if the yankees were to include phil hughes in a trade, for what player it would make the most sense? your thoughts please. thanks
Keith Law: (2:15 PM ET ) If you’re going to trade Hughes, you have to get someone like Miguel Cabrera – a star who’s yours for more than just one year.
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Eric Gagne (Boston): Is there any truth to the speculation that I’m a type A free agent? If so, this system needs a serious revamping.
Keith Law: (2:18 PM ET ) Type B. Free pick for Boston.
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Does This make Sense (Broolyn, nyc): Could this even be possible. trading humberto or betances for Evan Longoria? please give my your insight on this one. thanks
Keith Law: (2:30 PM ET ) No shot. He’s untouchable for Tampa.
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Jon (DC): I know A-Rod’s method of opting out was not the best, but I was more shocked at mini-Steinbrenner’s reaction? He was totally out of line with some of his comments, and really bashed a player for doing what his contract allowed him to do. Don’t you just get the feeling that Hank is gonna run the Yankees into the cellar?
Keith Law: (2:31 PM ET ) He was pretty strident, but I can see him/them being miffed that A-Rod didn’t even listen to their offer. Which comes back to the earlier question – why not at least get the Yanks’ offer before deciding?
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JP (new york city) : Keith — great chats…if ARod has a better offer somewhere, is it impossible to prove there was tampering involved? did you ever sense that it happened in toronto?
Keith Law: (2:33 PM ET ) I know for a fact of one tampering incident, and we had a strong feeling one of our players was tampered with too. So yes, it happens, and no, it’s almost never punished.
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Tom (NJ): Can the Yanks replace Jorge if he leaves?
Keith Law: (2:48 PM ET ) I don’t see how. That would be a huge disaster for them.
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cashman: tabata, betances, melky, horne for Miguel Cabrera?
Keith Law: (3:04 PM ET ) Tabata’s hurt, so his value is low and it’s the wrong time to dangle him. I don’t think there’s enough 2008 value in there for Florida – only Melky could definitely start for them, and it’s not like he’s coming off a huge year.
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Mike (NY): Betances got lost in the sauce this year with Joba, Kennedy and Hughes breaking out huh?
Keith Law: (3:08 PM ET ) He’s so far away that it’s hard to talk about him in the same breath. Even Horne, Marquez, Smith are ahead of him and it makes more sense to focus on them.
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Joe, RI: How can the Yankees claim that they want to win next year when 3/5 of the starting rotation will be limited to less than 160 innings by design next year?
Keith Law: (3:21 PM ET ) 2/5 – Joba and Hughes. Kennedy threw 165-ish this year, so he can go to 180+. And they do have Mussina as a 6th man if Pettitte re-signs.
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Jim (Pa): Keith, he’s older than the usual question subjects, but what do you think of Matt DeSalvo? Any chance he has value as a 4/5 to maybe an NL club?
Keith Law: (3:28 PM ET ) More of a 6th starter/long man.
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Sunny (THAT’s ME) (Maryland): of all the yankee prospects who are the top 5?
Keith Law: (3:35 PM ET ) Joba, Tabata, Kennedy, Jackson, Sanchez if healthy.
No A-Rod on MMD.
actually. we would be around 85-77
i dont think we make the playoff with those numbers
PBL:
They could start he season with Betemit at 3d and see what develops depending on what other moves they make, hoping maybe to get to the All Star break and make a deal then with a team falling out of contention. But if they choose not to pursue a 3d base solution like Miguel Cabrera in this off season, IMO they will have to get a righty 1st baseman with pop in addition to some additional firepower in the OF. So, I’m not sure Minky will be back (FA) and IMO Duncan is not a starter on this team, despite his goofy good nature, occasional HRs and his arm bashing.
Sunny,
Joba’s still a prospect?
“Letting Posada go might be better than resigning him…assuming, via trade or FA, they can replace his bat cumulatively at other positions. Going with a defensive-minded catcher would be better for the pitching staff and probably a better fit with the new manager.”
That’s from Phil (waaaay up above). Just read it, and I can’t help but think: that makes 74 HRs, 246 hits, and 354 RBIs (so far) that we would need to “cumulatively replace at other positions” if you include a certain third baseman that’s not coming back. Gonna be pretty tough to do. We need Posada back.
There’s a certain “sell the farm” sentiment that seems to be building around here.. I can’t believe someone was willing to offer Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Horne and more just to get Cabrera and I guess Dontrelle Willis? All of that young talent for a 3B with highly questionable dedication and a possibly fading NL pitcher? Glad you guys aren’t the GM.
Tim (Boston): Any idea what to expect from Andrew Brackman, or does his injury make him too hard to project?
Keith Law: (3:44 PM ET ) He’s a #1 starter if he comes all the way back.
With the Yanks farm system full of prospects, the time is approaching for making a decision on which ones to trade and which ones to keep. Assuming Mo comes back and Joba goes into the rotation, the Yanks are just a 3rd baseman and catcher away from being a very good team in ’08.
What about cashing in some chips and making a deal with Florida for both Cabrera and their catcher Miguel Olivo. Olivo is only 28 and at some point the Yanks need to get younger behind the plate. I love Jorge and he has been terrific,but if the bidding for him means a 5 year deal, now might be the time to cut ties.
According to Keith Law, yes… rookies are still prospects
Whoops that’s 74 HR, 246 RBI and 354 hits.. still a lot of RBIs.
Nik (hoboken): 3 hour chat and you haven’t answered who (other than Cabrera) you would go after to replace arod at 3rd for the Yanks.
Keith Law: (3:47 PM ET ) The list is pretty obvious, no? Cabrera, Lowell. I wouldn’t try Chavez. Scott Rolen would be a great fit if he’s healthy, but how can they take on that risk?
Sunny615-
Hey thanks for that log, very nice.
Interesting to see him so high on Action Jackson already. The kids coming on super-quickly.
I also don’t think Betances is as far behind as he makes it sound.
SJ, I look forward to your minor league wrap up report. Thank you for sharing your insight.
BTW; What are you hearing so far about Carmen Angelini, how is his adjustment going?
Off topic, but Joel Zumaya is missing the 1st half of the 2008 season after messing up his shoulder. He injured it while moving personal items during the California wildfires. Goodness, what did he do, try to pick up a refrigerator with one arm?!?
J-dawg,
Wow. What a freak accident.
Regarding Boras, I have a feeling he’s complaining so much because ARod is pissed at him. For all of his talent, Alex doesn’t seem like the brightest bulb in the box, and I’ll bet Boras convinced him that
1. the Yankees *would* negotiate and
2. his reputation wouldn’t be damaged if he opted out.
Now that it’s gone wrong for them, Alex is probably angry with Boras and Boras is desperately spinning to try to convince someone (anyone!) that he was right to opt out.
I listened to Joe G.’s interview on WFAN with Fatso and the Mad Cow. When asked about Abreu’s option, it was interesting that Joe G. seemed quite evasive on the subject, offering that it would be discussed in the Meetings next week ( I assume the GM meetings).
Perhaps the Yanks are looking at RH options like Hunter or Rowand instead of signing Abreu?
Also, with all the top Yankee Prospects being discussed, what is with Mark Melancon who had TJ surgfey last october. I understood that he was throwing in August.
Have you any info, SJ44?
I think you might be right Jeff in MA. When Boras was on ESPN the other day he looked tired and dragging.
Is it cruel, mean and vindictive of me if I said I’d love to see Boras black-balled?
From the desk of Tim Kurkjian:
Who’s going to pay A-Rod $30 million annually?
Alex Rodriguez is the best player in the game. He will be the unanimous MVP of the American League after his historic season. He is on his way to becoming the all-time home run leader, among other achievements. And now he is a free agent, having opted out of his Yankees contract, which would have paid him $72 million over the next three years. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman reiterated when A-Rod opted out that the Yankees would not negotiate with him. And they won’t, especially after agent Scott Boras notified Cashman of the decision via text message. A-Rod and his agent announced it the night the Red Sox won the World Series.
Boras is a smart guy. There’s no way he would leave $72 million on the table unless he was certain he could get more on the open market, or if Rodriguez told him he didn’t want to play for the Yankees any longer. There are so few teams that have the funds to even come close to paying Rodriguez what Boras is going to be looking for: something between $250 million and $300 million over seven to 10 years. The Mets seem to be a possibility, but they have a third baseman and a shortstop. The Red Sox have every intention of re-signing third baseman Mike Lowell, the World Series MVP who is a free agent to be. He could play shortstop in Boston, but that’s a real long shot. The Angels need a bat, they need a third baseman, they need a boost, but a team source said late in the season that there was “no way” Los Angeles would be willing to play Rodriguez close to $30 million a year.
Where will A-Rod play next year? That story will change about a hundred times, starting today.
Sorry Pete – didn’t mean to post the article – just the link – I guess I mixed up my notes.
Just speculating- but with Brackman on the mend – I’m thinking a year to recover, another to pitch in the minors and a 2010 debut. Too much hope for for our future ace?
Abreu’s option needs to be picked up by tomorrow or he’s a free agent.
Sunny615-
I think you might see him in 2010, but he’ll be on such an innings limit that I’m not sure he’ll be taking the league by storm that year..
But, you could be talking having him and Betances showing up at aobut the same time. That’s exciting.
Wow – Brackman, Betances, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy … drool
Drive 4-5 –
I should have added that Boras probably thought he *could* bully the Yankees into negotiating. WRONG! I doubt he cares one iota whether ARod has a bad reputation, though, as long as Alex’s checks don’t bounce.
Yo, are Fatty and Fruit Loops going to interview A-Rod on WFAN today?
How many times are mike and the mad puppy going to interview Joe? Are they trying to rub Yes’s face in it?
migames,
One of the problems of projecting out the numbers is, it doesn’t take into account better pitching.
Suppose they score fewer runs AND give up fewer runs? If give up 50-75 fewer runs, wouldn’t the numbers, despite less offense, be more favorable to the Yankees?
Mark Melancon is on the Sharks roster in the Hawaiian League. He hasn’t pitched yet but, the plan is to get him some work this winter.
He’s another guy that, if healthy, could be a fast mover through the system. When he was healthy, he was a monster in college.
I thought picking up Abreu’s option would be a no brainer. Other than AFraud or Jorge, he’s a more productive bat than any free agent on the market. They’d be losing 100+ runs scored and 100 rbi’s. I’d be shocked if the option isnt picked up.
If Cashman wipes the slate clean and loses AFraud, Abreu and Posada he’s got a mountain to climb before this team is even mediocre offensively.
pat:
Until Nov. 12, potential Free agents can only negotiate with their current team.
21,
Angelini is in the Instructional League right now. Too early to say about him.
I did ask one person I know with the Yankees about him and they love his athleticism. The person told me Angelini reminds him of a young Jeter.
Doesn’t mean he will be Jeter. Just means he has the same skillset and makeup Jeter had at the same age.
“Perhaps the Yanks are looking at RH options like Hunter or Rowand instead of signing Abreu?”
I really hope not, in my opinion they have the perfect situation with Abreu. A premiere player in their outfield who would only be tied up for ONE year. Between Rowands injuries and his demands of a 5 or 6 year deal running into his 30′s, I’d stay far away from him.
Same goes for Hunter.
If they simply pick up Abreus deal they can gamble and see if Jackson/ Tabata are ready for 09.
SJ….yes, but thats assuming the pitching remains the same next year….but if say, they improve their pitching by 75 runs (as you point out) their record would improve to 92-70…which would make next year fun to watch
Boras has shutdown Arod from giving any interviews.
I guess Scott figures he’s doing such a fine job, why mess with a winning strategy.
Let’s see……in 4 days Scott has:
Ticked off his entire industry when he announced the opt out during the World Series. Making his client look bad in the process.
Spent the next couple of days “worrying” about the direction of the Yankees and using that as the reason Arod opted out.
When that didn’t fly, he decided to blame Mariano Rivera for Arod’s post-season failure. That’s a “winning strategy”. Another move that makes Arod look awful.
Perhaps Scott should take himself out of loop for a week and shut up before he does anymore damage to his clients reputation.
Kosuke Fukudome could be take Abreu’s spot.
After reading the New Yorker piece on Boras, it appears everyone is afraid to tell the emperor he has no clothes on out West at his enclave.
Didn’t the Yankees wait until the last day to pick up Sheff’s option last year? They’ll pick up Abreu’s option because if nothing else they can trade him somewhere although off hand I don’t know what teams would be interested in a corner outfielder.
Latham Joe
I heard Cashman say today that they have until tomorow to pick up the $16M option. If they don’t pick up the $16M they might try to sign him for less between tomorrow and the 12th or just let him go.
I could be entirely wrong here, but I am still wondering if Boras made a huge mistake in encouraging Arod to opt out. I know SJ that think Boras knows he can get at least 30 million per year for Arod, but I am not so sure. It seems like every day there are bridges being burned and so now Boras is attempting to rekindle some kind of possibility that Arod would indeed go back to the Yankees. I will grant you that sports commentators don’t have any better crystal balls than the rest of us but on a FOX sports show today every commentator felt that Boras has possibily miscalculated both the market and the baseball’s reaction to Boras and Arod trying to squeeze every possible dollar out of Arod’s next contract. This is precisely why as a Red Sox fan I could admit that I respected Yankees players such as Jeter, Rivera, and Posada….but not Arod.
“I heard Cashman say today that they have until tomorow to pick up the $16M option. If they don’t pick up the $16M they might try to sign him for less between tomorrow and the 12th or just let him go.”
abreau would scream with joy if they don’t pick up the option. why would he sign for less?
he could without blinking get 3-4 years at 13-15 million a year.
ABREU WOULD GET a VERY GOOD CONTRACT BUT MAYBE NOT WHAT RANDY SAYS.. ABREU IS 33 and has amuch better resume then rowand and in my opinion better then hunter also.. I know he is a RF not a CF but he has been a very good player for yrs…
As much as I hate to agree with a red sox fan, I agree with Ray, with one caveat. I think Boras made a mistake and will come crying to cashman like he did with Beltran, offering less years and less money. the caveat is that i really think that he tampered and had a deal in place before the season ended. some chump is going to pay-rod. my guess is that it is boston. Theo traded a boston icon in nomar. I don’t think he really cares about the initial reaction, just that it makes them a better team.
How did Boras blamed Mariano for Arod’s postseason failures?
That is exactly the reason arod looks like a fraid and a moron now. Not because he opted out but because he did so before he even talked with the yanks. So He couldnt imagine playing anywhere else, NY felt like home and he opted out and pretty much lost any chance he had of coming back to the yanks before even talking to any one associated with the yanks. He didnt even know what they were offering. And why do the yanks care? OOO i DUNNO the fact that they lost 30 million dollars from texas. The fact that arod and boras made NY look like chumps for asking him to discuss an extension just for them to ignore the request. Or maybe it was the idea that he did it during the last game of the world series looking like he has absolutely no respect for the game. Arod lost soo much credibility and respect from the fans this week i dunno how anyone can look any worse during such a short period of time. He deserves all of the hatred and booing he recieved after the past couple of yrs despite his numbers and I was one of the ppl telling fans to shut up when they bood him last yr. Now I wish I had bood along with them. He is the biggest joke in baseball right now and a-fraud seems so fitting.
I think maybe Girardi doesnt want Abreu because of his half a$$ field play. Girardi wants hard nose players not wallophobia ones. Thats not including a lack of power for a right fielder that he brings. I woudnt be surprised if they took that money and got andrew for one year.
Boras has another deal for him, maybe two, in his pocket. I have no doubt in my mind about that. Its how he operates.
Perhaps, he convinced Arod the Yankees, despite their public stance, would always be in play. Now that it doesn’t seem to be the case, perhaps its causing a problem.
The issue he has right now is the raging public opinion against he and his client off his stunt Sunday night.
That, coupled with throwing Mariano under the bus today, doesn’t cast his client in a positive light. Not just with fans, but players!
Mariano Rivera is one of the most respected players in the game by other players. I can just imagine the reaction of guys in the game when they read what Boras said. Doesn’t make Arod look good at all. In fact, it makes him look real, real small.
If I was Arod, I would be beside myself with anger today. I’d tell Boras to STFU and not say another word publicly until this negotiation is over.
I also think there is some surprise Boras’ end as to how strident the Yankees are in this.
My feeling? The Yankees are sick of Arod.
Away from Boras, I think the Yankees would put up with Arod. With Boras, I just think they are sick of the whole circus.
I think the Yankees look at their team, see the direction they are going, and believe they can better re-deploy their assets than tying up so much in Arod.
Not returning the owners phone calls looks to be the last straw.
I think Scott thought they would soften. Instead, I sense the Yankees are more emboldened than ever on not re-visiting this situation.
Its why we are seeing the kind of PR missteps you rarely see with Boras during this process. It hasn’t been the best week for him, that’s for sure.
SJ everything you say is true but it does not matter. arod will get a ton of coin because humans have incredible arrogance and 1 gm and owner will think this big dream with arod and will fall in love with the arod dream..
again I said yesterday look at arod and compare him to time duncan…what a joke.. I know it is much easier for a superstar to win in a sport where only 5 players play at a time but look at how they handle themselves and how they improve all around him…
I alo know baseball is a harder sport to lift your teammates up but again the differences between the 2 is stark..
people on this site think arod is the best player of all time!!!!!!!!!!this is the way the best player of all time handles himself?????????he acts like a stat whore…..
I don’t think wallphobia has anything to do with it.
Girardi doesn’t speak for Cashman. He didn’t want to talk about personnel moves.
They have to decide on Abreu by tomorrow. I bet they pick up his option.
Arod was supposed to be on M&MD today he was scheduled as of a week ago. But after opting out his master will not let him do any interviews so his people called and cancelled for him. M&MD said they told his people that it will be strictly about the award and promise nothing else…but Arod is on a leash and is not allowed to talk.
Stuart,
There is no doubt somebody will give him big money.
But, I go back to Jordan. He routinely took less money so he could give the Bulls the cap room needed to surround him with players that could help win championships.
Somebody is going to give Arod the money. But, will that team be able to surround him with the talent needed to win?
Or, does he has another Texas situation in 4 years?
He had it made in NY and he chucked it.
In the long run, and this isn’t sour grapes on my part, I think the Yankees are going to be better off. I really do.
The roster today isn’t going to be the Opening Day Roster.
To me, this is like Christmas. I don’t need to know what my presents are before the big day.
I’m excited to see the moves the Yankees make this off-season because I think they are on the right track.
They will pick up Abreu’s option so they can possibly find a trade partner. A first baseman? Bullpen help? Catcher? Who knows. My money says he doesnt stay. If A joke would have resigned they probably keep him just because A hole liked hitting behind him. We need to make up for the power outage A whore left. Hunter(strikes out too much but has power), Jones (strikes out alot but has plenty of pop),Rowand(less strikouts decent power). I would take any of those guys over Abreu if it wasnt going to handcuff us in the long run.
If they pick up his option, it contains a no trade clause.
They wouldn’t be able to trade him without his approval.
Wow – Brackman, Betances, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy … drool
..and Humberto, Jeff Marquez, Alan Horne, Kevin Whelan, JB Cox, Mark Melancon.
I love Betances, he’s a local kid.
Here’s a pix of him standing behind Rocket
http://tinyurl.com/362zzq
Of all the outfield options out there, Andruw Jones should be one of the very last considerations. He’ll command big dollars and likely a minimum of 4 years.
His hitting (except doubles) dropped off significantly and his defensive skill diminshed dramatically. There is no doubt in my mind that the name of Andruw Jones will appear in the Mitchell Report.
Abreu has very nice stats, a good clubhouse presence, but we’ve all watched him for two seasons – he’s a “soft” player, weak defensively, and overrated offensively.
The Yankees would do better with Hunter or rowand, but not any longer than 3 or 4 years contract length.
It was said that andrew would take a one year deal to bring back his value. You cant go wrong with 3 yr deals with any of them. Rowand is my pick.
“but we’ve all watched him for two seasons – he’s a “soft†player, weak defensively, and overrated offensively.”
BS. People fall in love with dirt on the uniform, but it’s ultimately meaningless. Abreu slumped horribly early this season, yes. But he’s got more plate patience than almost anyone out there and hit very well down the stretch in 2006 and for the second half of 2007. He’s got a cannon in RF and his range is fine. Not really sure where you’re going to find a better option without committing to a contract the team will REALLY regret in 2 years.