Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 02, 2007 
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Joe Girardi took in all the sights on his first day in pinstripes.
Robinson Cano was told by one of his bosses that he could switch positions. This notebook also has news on the former third baseman, Hideki Matsui, Bobby Abreu and the new coaching staff.
Good stuff, Pete. I definitely would want Cano to stay at 2nd base. I’m sure that Cashman will go out and get another 3rd baseman. If Betemit would just be more patient at the plate he may not be too bad.
If the Yankees are heading down to Miami anyway, maybe the should have a couple of practices in Butterfly World. Ya know, just to be prepared for all situations.
I’m afraid of Cano at third, just doesn’t seem right.
Wonder if Jeffrey Loria will be in the stands…
I was more than a little surprised by Cano’s me-first response to the idea of playing 3d base. Cano may not be the solution at 3d base but he’s in no position to be publicly “preferring” to stay at 2d base. Shelly Duncan would play third base in a heart beat (and be pretty awful) but he would do it if the team needed him to. I’m glad Cash Money put Cano in his place.
After Joe Girardi talked about his father’s reaction to seeing a photo of his son in pinstripes, I don’t know how anyone could not be moved. It was a genuine moment and lately those have been hard to come by – especially with all the empty words from A-Rod’s camp. This doesn’t mean that Girardi should be ordained a saint, not by a long shot. But it might be a peek into the human side of the guy – not something you’d hear from a “control freak”. Hopefully the media will give him a chance rather than paint him with those broad strokes at every opportunity.
We should create a website that says “A-Rod FIRE BORASS!!!”
Legends are only remembered as YANKEES!!!
Instead of trying to convert Cano (again), why not look at Cannizaro or Chavez from Scranton, maybe pack ‘em off to the winter leagues to see if it’s feasible? Just a thought…
Good to see Cashman and the Yankees shutting the door on Boras and A-Rod.
If the yankees take Alex back after this bravado,about him not opting out,all year long,slime bucket (Boras) will have them by the Cajonas,and milk the yankees dry! Here’s hoping Cashman holds steady and not buckle.At this point it’s a game of ckicken,let’s see who blinks first,Boras or the Yankees. Wouldn’t it be funny if Alex came crawling back? hehehe!
How apropos that Girardi chose # 27 as his number.We know where his focus will be this year!
http://arodfireboras.blogspot.com/
Hah.
Don’t see Arod giving the boot to Boras. Arod likes having people take care of everything for him, and he knows Boras is the best at that. He knows Boras is the best at putting every basic human emotion aside and focusing only on money.
i find it interesting that BC wants to talk to the Steinbrothers again about Abreu… i would imagine it’s a no-brainer at basically a one year deal, but maybe Cash has something up his sleeve.
The local rags are already picking on Joe G. NY post has a back page artful Dodger testy Joe …. Come on, where is the picture from his press conference. Funny how in May they had Joe out the door and fired, now that Joe is gone. They are picking on his replacement.
As far as Abreu goes, maybe not brining him back is a good thing. Move Melky over to RF and bring in either Rowand, or Hunter to play CF.
Please keep Cano where he is…
My ideal lineup:
LF Johnny Damon
SS Derek Jeter
RF Bobby Abreu
DH Hideki Matsui
C Jorge Posada
1B Shelly Duncan/Jason Giambi
3B (Either Joe Crede, Corey Koskie, or Morgan Ensberg)
2B Robinson Cano
CF Melky Cabrera
There’s really no need to mess with Cano at second base. He’s not a Gold Glover there yet, but he has a terrific arm. He keeps getting better at spinning and firing a throw to first to complete a double play that Jeter starts. He’s a bit lackadaisical at second sometimes, but I think that Girardi can fix that.
I would really be torn on what to do with Bobby Abreu. He’s a good, solid contact hitter and he has a knack for drawing walks and having long at-bats that drive pitchers insane. My only problem is his lumbering in right field sometimes. The only way that the Yankees don’t pick up his option will be if they can sign one of the free agent outfielders to say, a two-year deal. That is very unlikely, as Torii Hunter is gunning for a five-year deal and he is meeting with the Chi Sox. Rowand would be the one most likely to take a two-year deal, but that might not happen. Whether he picks up Abreu’s option or not, I feel very confident that Cashman will make the right decision.
My 2008 Yankees
Batting Order/ Starting Nine:
Cabrera RF S (Abreu bought out and let go)
Jeter SS R
Giambi DH L
Aaron Rowand CF R (signed)
Matsui LF L (Damon traded)
Posada C S (he and Jose Molina re-signed)
Cano 2B L
Kevin Kouzmanoff 3B R (acquired via trade from San Diego)
Sean Casey 1B L (signed, career .301 BA/ .366 OBP)
Bench: Molina, Phillips, Betemit, Duncan
Rotation: Pettitte, Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Mussina
Rotation Reserves: Kennedy, Karstens, Igawa
Bullpen:
Rivera (re-signed)
Huston Street (acquired via trade from Oakland)
Jeremy Affeldt (signed, primary lefty)
J.C. Romero (signed, secondary lefty)
Troy Percival (signed, middle relief, insurance closer)
Farnsworth
One from this group who battles for the final bullpen slot in spring training (this sends a message to each guy that he better be the absolute best guy with the above five locks):
Ohlendorf, Karstens, Rasner, Veras, Bruney, Ramirez, Henn, Wright, whoever could be signed to minor-league contracts
Try to trade: Giambi, Matsui, Mussina, Farnsworth, Igawa
Yeah, I know the former three have full no trade clauses and
Giambi and Mussina would have 10-and-5 status to veto any trade even if they didn’t have full no-trade clauses, hence “try to” in front of trade, so any of you who say “Giambi blah blah aren’t being traded”, here’s a preemptive “Learn to read and start by looking up the word ‘try’.”
As for Damon, once Jones, Hunter, Jenkins, and Abreu are signed, Damon’s trade value will increase immensely as he is better than the remaining free agent outfielders listed below (from Cot’s Baseball Contracts -I don’t include Bonds cuz he’ll most likely be a DH and some like Adam Dunn and Moises Alou had their 2008 club options picked up):
Marlon Anderson LAD
Milton Bradley SD (headcase with a torn a.c.l.)
Mike Cameron SD (suspended for the first 25 games of ’08
for a banned substance use)
Brady Clark SD
Jeff DaVanon OAK
Darin Erstad
Cliff Floyd * CHC
Kosuke Fukudome, Chunichi, Japan
Luis Gonzalez LAD
Shawn Green* NYM
Jose Guillen
Eric Hinske BOS
Andruw Jones ATL
Bobby Kielty BOS
Kenny Lofton CLE
Rob Mackowiak * SD
Trot Nixon CLE
Orlando Palmeiro HOU
Corey Patterson BAL
Aaron Rowand PHI
Reggie Sanders KC
Sammy Sosa TEX
Shannon Stewart OAK
Rondell White MIN
Brad Wilkerson TEX
Preston Wilson STL
I’d like to see the stats of how many actual game winning hits A-Rod had in 2007, home runs or otherwise. That is the true measure of a player’s worth. Many players can put up monster HR / RBI numbers but how many come when they really count ?
I don’t think the A’s will trade Street..
The oufield picture has impact to what Cashman does depending if Abreu’s option is picked up or Melky Cabrera is involved in a trade.
That is where the affect comes in whether Aaron Rowand is pursued or not.
Brian Cashman is likely in constant communication with the agents of Jose Molina, Jorge, Mo, and Vizcaino plus Andy Pettitte’s agent to see about his option for coming back as the rotation lefthander in ‘o8.
The winter meetings in December should see Cashman trying to unload the contracts of Giambi, Mussina, and Farnsworth.
goddamn, is torre going to wind up bringing all the best yankee coaches ‘with him’ now? by my count, it’s at least 3 now….
aaron rowand as your cleanup hitter? Really? Thats pretty terrible.
I think this is the year we may see cano move up a bit in the lineup, he’s certainly capable.
Mark, 22(maybe 24) of his HR tied/gave the yankees a lead this year. Tops in the majors. He also led in tie/go ahead RBI.
The “A-Rod only hits tack on/meaningless HR” is so 2006. Did you even watch any of of the games? Amazing.
What is up with people wanting the yankees to get Crede, he is a terrible player! I liked the idea of platooning Betemit and Ensberg.
In response to someone above, I would like Kouzmanoff but he is a terrible defender and is more of a LF down the line because of it.
I would also love to see the yanks trade for Eric Chavez. Seems like he would be a low-risk, albeit expensive option who gives you great defense and a possibly solid offensive season.
Mark
Go look at the baseball-reference.com link at the top of the blog. Click on the splits for 2007 and it will give you his clutch hitting numbers for 2007 somewhere on that page. I don’t remeber the exact numbers but I looked at it after the season and they were good. I remember I was impressed with his close and late numbers.
Peter:
Any developments on the coaching staff ? If Larry Bowa decides to come back as the bench coach to Joe G., Tino Martinez would be a good fit as the new 3rd base coach.
With Mattingly now gone, it would take the sting out of replacing Ron Guidry as pitching coach.
I really don’t think you’ll see the Yankees go trade crazy this off season.
They’ll do their best to find a 3B option, and maybe some bullpen help..
But I think we’ll see them pick up Abreu’s option today. So the OF will look pretty much the same as it did last year, with Damon and Matsui switching off LF and DH.
I kind of agree that we need to trade somebody, because right now we have a log jam at the DH spot. Between Giambi, Matsui, Damon, Shelley (?), Phillips (?), etc.
“Scott Proctor isn’t the only former player of Torre’s waiting to reunite with him in LA. Mariano Duncan of “we play today, we win today, that’s it” fame is currently the Dodgers first base coach and they would like to keep him on.”
The Yankees may opt for a right-handed hitter to fill in the gap at third base. Left-handed pitchers were a problem for the Yankees in the first few months of the season. The lineup is a bit lefty heavy from time to time. It would be nice to see someone at third who can take advantage of lefties. There are a few righty third baseman who have been discussed, such as Mike Lowell, that White Sox third baseman whose name I won’t mention, among others. I’m not saying to get them by any means, those are just names that we have discussed on here.
Kaz Matsui just filed for FA. If Cano was to move to 3rd, do you think we put a bid for him?
I realize his first time around in NY was anything but great, but he has certainly improved since joining the rockies.
I think they need to pick up the Abreu option because replacing your 3 and 4 hitter the same year would be insane but it would be easier to find a righty power bat in an OF than a 3rd baseman this year.
KAZ MATSUI??????? 87OPS+
JOE CREDE?????? Career High OBP? .311
You guys are all insane, seriously.
Mr. Sal,
The coaching staff will be as follows:
Pitching: Dave Eiland
Hitting: Kevin Long
Bench: Rob Thomson
Third base: Bobby Meacham
First base/catching: Tony Pena
Bullpen: Mike Harkey
The 1st base logjam has to replace itself in ’08. Just too many parts available for a position that requires only (1) regular man for the position plus a backup. It was getting to be a soap opera at 1st base in ‘o7 for who the 1st baseman of the day would be.
Here’s a funny pic –
Arod’s Hall of Fame PLaque… sorta
Here’s the article
Here’s a funny pic –
Arod’s Hall of Fame Plaque… sorta
Here’s the article
Scott is wrappping his arm in ice as we speak.
East Side Sal, Peter will no doubt know more about this, but in my reading around the LA papers as well as the NY ones the speculation seems to be that Bowa will ‘come with’ as 3rd base coach, Donnie as hitting coach, and ex-Yankee coach Lee Mazilli may be Torre’s bench coach.
J-Dawg,
Yeah I agree they need to focus on right-handed bats at third.. They need help with right-handed production.
Here’s a link to the Onion’s hilarious take on A-Rod’s version of Mr. October:
http://www.theonion.com/conten.....EMTF_Onion
Does FOX hold any blame for the circus that the A-Rod opt out became. They deemed it more news worthy than the game by choosing to focus on it during that 8th inning. After the champagne had dried on the clubhouse floor and Papelbon finished dancing, A-Rod would still have opted out. They could have choosen to not make it the lead story and by doing so would have said that A-Rod’s opting out was not bigger than the game. Instead they believed that it was.
Matsui was a 3B?
I can’t see Cano going to third, but that’s just me.
MORNING EDITION
http://tinyurl.com/2ddnvn
Girardi Takes The Lead
I agree with you Rebecca. His defense is hit or miss at second. Move him to third and youre just asking for problems.
When I played, I always felt 3rd was the hardest position.
I’m a resident of south Florida and called to inquire about the last two exibition games in March. I was told by the Marlins that the tickets would not be on sale for a few weeks however they will only be sold in 8 packs. In order to get the tickets one would have to buy 6 reg season games that include opening day and the 2 exibition games. This team can’t put 5000 people in the seats during the regular season..I guess its time to make some bucks from Yankee Fans….Ill stay home!
It took Cano a couple years to get comfortable at second. It’s his spot now and he should keep it.
I’m not convinced Kaz can handle NY baseball.
Actually, Kaz reminds me a lot of Tony Womack.
He had a carear year for the Cards and got a huge contract.
I think the same things going to happen with Kaz, I just hope its not us that signs him.
mysterjc – That is really crappy. I was able to go to a spring training game in Philly and all we had to buy was tickets for that game. It is just a gimic to make money off of us as you said. The Yankees should pull out of it and say they want no part.
He can’t handle Colorado baseball either.
Say it with me:
KAZ
MATSUI
IS
TERRIBLE
Guys–When do you think we’ll find out if the Yanks pick up Bobby’s option?
Here we go, Kaz Matsui’s away numbers last year
.249 .304 .333 .638
Don’t bring it up again.
Rebecca
Definitely by midnight tonight.
Keith I’ll say it with you.
Kaz Matsui and Joe Crede are terrible!
Rebecca,
Seems like most Yankee news has been coming out in the late afternoon recently. I’m sure they’ve made up their minds already, they just need to go ahead and announce it.
I think they like to get announcements like this made before the newspapers go to print.
No Kaz and No Crede!!!! We need right hand bat power!!!
Pat and Dman–thanks!
I don’t see why they wouldn’t pick it up, but then again there’s much I don’t know
Are there any right handed power bats available??
trade market
The press is already sharpening their fangs ref: tha “testy Joe comment…
I liked Joe Torre but sometimes I think he covered his butt with the nice nice to the media image… Remember they named him clueless Joe…
Good luck yo Joey G. & let the Girardi era begin….
The thing that concerns me about signing Rowand and Hunter is they’re looking for 4 or 5 year deals. Hunter will be 33 and will be in decline after a year or two due to the punishment he inflicts every year (see Damon, Johnny) and Rowand had a career year that few think he’ll likely repeat. The only scenario I can see for signing one of these guys is if Melky is moved in a deal. Jackson and Tabata are at most two years away. Jackson probably sooner. These are both potential All Star players. Let’s not jump the gun again and sign aging stars (or pseudo stars) to long contracts again. People here are already looking for ways to unload Matsui who is only a year older than Hunter at 33, Giambi (36), and Damon (34) with Hunter (32) and Rowand (30). Yes we lost the production of Arod, but why is it so important we find a replacement for those numbers? Wouldn’t it be better to field a team with excellent pitching and solid hitting rather than the uber lineup with mediocre pitching?
Anyone able to tell me where Eric Wordekemper is on the pinstripeplus.com Top 50?
Great photos, as usual, from Doc Acula..Thanks for sharing!
I still believe the Yanks best option at 3B is Mike Lowell.
The Red Sox generally have a philosphy of not signing players to multi-year contracts that will bring them beyond the Age of 35, (a very good strategy). He’ll be 34 in February.
However, the Yankees have a dire need for a righty hitting 3B with power – and Lowell’s the best fit. Throw some big money (from the ARod savings) at him for 3 or 4 years – similar to the strategy with Damon. He seems to have at least 3 years left in his tank.
A couple of really good Yankees related articles on THT today:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....ing-boras/
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....ld-series/
just read sherman’s unfavorable article on girardi’s start with the media in the NYPost. Any ideas where i can get a script or video of Torre’s first press conference when he joined the yankees? thanks
there is no way the Saux let Lowell walk.
the words ‘trade market’ scare me so much now.
Now that we look back and see how we hurt the team by always trading players away, Im scared to look at different trade options…
It took the Yankees a few years to build up a top 5 farm system. I don’t want to see them just throw a few prospects into a package to get a medicore player for a couple years.. Thats no good.
That hurts things in the long run.
Fourth year is the key for Lowell. The Red Sox won’t go more than three and I’m sure Lowell knows the Yankees would go the extra year for him.
BTW, he’s good friends with Jeter and Posada.
I agree the Red Sox will ante up (over 3 years) and will probably keep him.
However, if the fourth year is important to Lowell, he will definitely be in play for the Yankees.
That creates another issue. Do you go 4 years for Mike Lowell? Similar to the Posada situation in that regard.
I just thought of something. If the Yankees were to get Lowell and sign him to say, a four-year deal, he may end up having to be taken off of third for the last year or two. He would be 36 in that third season. There aren’t many third baseman in the league who are past the age of 35 at all. The reason is that third base is the quickest reaction position. You get absolute liners and rocket shots at third, really more so than any position.
Of course when you get older, your reaction time isn’t what it used to be. Lowell may end up being someone who doesn’t succomb to lost reaction time, but I don’t know. If you don’t think that reaction time is an issue when you get older, take note the next time that you are behind an older person at a traffic light. Notice how long that it takes the person to go when the light switches from red to green.
I tend to consider the Cano at third talk as noise from Cashman to give NY a slight bit of leverage if he pursues 3rd base options from other clubs. If he’s seen as having some in-house solutions, he won’t be viewed as quite so desperate to make a deal to fill the $Rod void.
the best teams the yankees have put out on the field have been the right mix of home grown prospects and players acquired via trade or FA.
you just need to trust the talent evaluators that they wont give up too much to get what this team needs.
you can designate a couple players untouchable, but you also need to be honest in these evaluations. joba and hughes may be untouchable, but in the right deal, i wouldnt be opposed to moving a Kennedy, Horne, etc., for example.
there is so much pitching in the system, which in today’s trade market is worth so much, that the yankees can get back some really good players in return should they ever decide to move a package.
i believe it was Keith Law or Rob Neyer whp felt that for Ian Kennedy, the Rockies would offer both Atkins and Fuentes… and for the Minor League pitcher of the Year, rightfully so.
1) why does the post think Girardi had an unfavorable start with the media? I love him!
2) What about signing Lowell to three years with an option for a fourth?
Dman,
I agree. I’d be real careful trading certain prospects right now.
There is no way the Marlins will trade Miguel Cabrera to the Yankees without Phil Hughes being in the deal.
They can trade him to the Dodgers, get Andy LaRoche back (who replaces Cabrera) AND a pitcher. Its a better fit for them.
I wouldn’t trade Hughes for Cabrera. No way.
I don’t see the Dodgers in the Arod Derby because they HATE Scott Boras with a passion because of the JD Drew stuff of last year. I don’t see them playing with Boras on this one.
I do think the Marlins are going to deal Cabrera this off-season. I think the Dodgers have the best chance to land him.
Its going to be interesting watching this entire Arod thing unfold.
He’s had as bad a week as you could have to start this thing off.
I also think teams have been waiting for YEARS to stick it to Scott Boras. This may be the shot teams have of working him over a bit.
Its not just signing Arod. A lot of teams can do that. Its signing more players to have around him to help you win. That’s when it gets expensive and that’s when teams get up against the Luxury Tax. Something, most teams wish to avoid.
Its why his actions toward the Yankees are mystifying. To not have the Yankees in the bidding, actually lowers his price.
Strange, strange week to say the least for Boras & Co.
I would make a Kennedy for Atkins and Fuentes trade in a NY minute. That just seems to be short (from the Rockies end) as to what they get back in return.
I like Garrett Atkins a lot. He’s a good player.
If that’s a possible deal, its definitely worth considering from the Yankees end.
After hearing Cashman’s comments yesterday, where he playfully suggested that Cano should make sure Wilson Betemit is in shape to play 3rd next year – I was thinking about this: Maybe instead of finding a 3b the Yankees could get by with Betemit, sign a Mike Lamb or trade for Casey Blake to serve as insurance, and then make a deal for a 1B instead. How about something like this:
A’s get: Matsui, Kennedy, Melky, Alexi Casilla
Twins get: Eric Chavez, Joe Blanton, cash from NYY
Yankees get Justin Morneau, Bobby Crosby
The Twins would shed enough payroll in the deal to keep Santana – and Blanton would take Silva’s rotation spot while Chavez would make up for the loss of Justin’s bat.
The A’s could get out from two deals that they don’t want in Chavez, and Crosby
The Yankees get a terrific young 1B and can replace Melky with either Brett Gardner (tearing up the Arizona Fall League) or by signing Torri Hunter.
SJ44,
You’re right about the Yankees being out of it hurting the price tag on Arod.
Thats why you see Boras trying to spin it like the Yankees might still be be interested. He knows thats not true, but he needs teams to believe it to keep the price high.
We could see the bidding around the league for Arod start out fairly average.
I’m no longer certain the Giants will try to land arod- they would then have half their payroll on two guys. Zito and Arod, and I don’t see the Giants’ front office being that stupid. I’m still sticking to my guess that Arod lands in LA red.
It doesn’t seem like too many teams are interested. Maybe just the Mets. I think it wold be funny if he got less money than he would have gotten had he not opted out.
Chip,
you think Minn would trade Morneau
Matsui has a full no-trade and you can be sure he will not waive it to go to the A’s.
Eric Chavez has low value. He’s oft injured and his production has fallen off the map. The Twins wouldn’t want him.
No way the Twins sell off a young, relatively inexpensive all star mvp first baseman.
Pipe dream.
WOW!!!
I have just learned from sources close to the Boston Red Sox that the Red Sox management has informed Scott Boras that the Red Sox are no longer interested in signing AROD.
From what I was told, at the end of the season a casual conversation between one of the Red Sox higher ups and Mr. Boras indicated that the Red Sox would be interested in bidding on AROD if the circumstance presented itself.
However there has been a change in circumstance, not only that the fact that the Red Sox won the world series and Mike Lowell being voted MVP, but more importantly the way AROD and Boras behaved at the end of their contract with the Yankees
That, plus other on the field events has made AROD Persona non Grata in Boston.
Sunny615, SJ44,
You both bring up good points there about 2 possable suitors for ARod. The Dodgers are sick of Boras and know that he doesn’t care about the team, only his client. And the Giants are still hurting from a bad signing. Can they risk another?
The Sox don’t want him.
Really that only leaves the Angels as far as I can think.
BTW – Morneau is worth helluva lot more than Chavez’s shell, Blanton, and money. The only way Morneau comes to the yanks is of we give the Twins Hughes or Joba.
Buster Olney had an interesting take on what it would take for the Yankees to get back in on Alex. He would have to walk into Hank’s office himself and essentially say that he made a terrible mistake and to fix it he has fired Scott Boras and wants desperately to return to the Yankees. Buster then goes on to say that he has no reason to believe that this will happen.
I personally think A-Rod winds up with the Orioles for the following reasons:
1. He idolizes Cal
2. Peter Angelos and Scott Boras smoothed over a lot of tension during the Matt Weiter’s negotiations
3. Angelos is desperate to keep his fans from becoming Nationals’ fans and could see Alex being a draw in that regard.
4. The Orioles are starting up their own regional sports network.
5. Playing home games in Camden Yards for the next 12 years not only would Alex break Bonds’ record he would pass it by at least 300.
So we’ve got the Angels whose owner said they would not get A-Rod cos of the pay, and the Cubs who don’t want him…
Heh. It’s a long shot, but maybe he will be playing in Toledo…
J-Dawg -
Just how old are you talkin’?????
Anyway, in my experience with red lights turning to green, it’s usually the KIDS who don’t go right away because they’re too distracted!!!!!
Cubs and Mets are slim possibilities but the Cubs have to resolve the ownership issues first (which won’t happen until well into 2008) and the Mets need to address Wright first. Why would you replace a young superb defensive third baseman with an average one? There’s also the issue of returning to NY. Mets or not, after the way the opt out was handled, I don’t see Arod seeing a return as a favorable scenario.
Doug – It would be a tough sell but he’s up for a new contract the year after next and moving him could give the Twins a couple of options:
1. Keep Santana
2. Free up 1B so they can move Mauer out from behind the plate.
3. Bring back Torri Hunter
Sunny is right that it would probably take more, but I don’t think it would take Joba or Hughes – If the Yankees were willing to kick in Jose Tabata to the Twins that could seal the deal I think.
luis vizciano is not coming back. he is 32, wants at least $3 mill a yr or more and you do not pay that for middle releif like him..
garret adkins for Ian kennedy is a legit trade option, if it will ever happen is another story. those 3 or 4 starts from kennedy this yr. seemed real impressive to me!!!!!!!!!
the difference between lowell for 4 yrs and jorge is Lowell is a 3b(less wear and tear( and he is a little younger then Jorge…
I could see Alex be forced to take a 5/100 deal because no one wants to sign him to a 10-12 year deal.
Arod won’t go to the Orioles. Living in MD has allowed me to see (constantly) the rants of O’s fans and first and foremost, Angelos is a cheap bast***. Angelos is the same guy who sued the Nationals for tv infringement rights. He’s not going to shell out $300 mil for one player. He’s got a marquee player already – Tejada and that’s good enough for Angelos. He’s the kind of owner who does just enough to appease fans but never enough to win games… just look at the O’s.
Right the Cubs too.. But I don’t know if thats Arods kind of town..
Then again, maybe it’s time we realize that Arod doesn’t care aobut the atmopshere as long as hes getting paid.
and of course – arod is all about the money.
I think Kennedy will be the best of the Yankees big three
Sunny -
I hear what you’re saying, but Angelos hasn’t always been cheap – he got gun shy after a few deals went sour on him (Albert Belle, Ben McDonald, Rafael Palmiero) but he has shelled out plenty of cash recently (Tejada, Baez, Mora, Hernandez) and I think he’s just out there enough to believe what Boras is selling about the revenue that Alex could generate for the team.
So if you had a 26 yr old All Star MVP first baseman who only makes $4.5 mil on the Yankees, you would give up an everyday first baseman with power for Chavez who is injured more often than healthy, Blanton who is no more than a 4 starter and prospect that 2 to 3 years away from the majors? If I’m Cashman, I’d say no.
“I think Kennedy will be the best of the Yankees big three”
Post your address and I’ll mail you a million dollars if that happens.
Chip – I live in MD, and am surrounded by (unhappy) O’s fans. And they’re not unhappy with the team – they don’t like Angelos. I hear it constantly. He’s not the kind of owner that will shell out $300 million for one player. He’s a cheapskate and a liar/lawyer. The only way he signs Arod to a deal like that is if someone else is paying Arod’s salary. Angelos is the worst kind of owner any team can have.
I never considered the O’s, but you might be onto something.
Doug – I look beyond the big three – The Yankees will get back Humberto Sanchez and Chris Garcia from injury this year. Sanchez could well become Rivera’s successor and Garcia as late as last year was touted by Baseball America as having better stuff than Phil Hughes. He missed all of last season with an injury to his non-throwing arm and while rehabbing he hurt his knee (nothing serious) but is expected ready by the start of spring training. Between those two, Alan Horne, Andrew Brackman, Zach McCallister, Dellin Bentaces, and Jeff Marquez – the Yankees have enough depth to spend a pitching prospect like Kennedy if it nets them a young position player.
So while the Steinbrenners may be unsavory at times, at least they’re willing to spend the money to put a winning team on the field every year. Angelos is the anti-steinbrenner.
errr, Kennedy for Atkins? Atkins had HUGE home/away splits this season, something like 200 pts of OPS. Although, I believe his 2006 season was much more balanced from that standpoint.
I’m not sure that he’d be worth THAT much more (IPK) than just running out betemit/platoon partner or some other cheaper option.
Sunny -
But if I told you that moving that MVP 1B would allow you to keep a perennial Cy Young pitcher, extend the career of an MVP catcher, and re-sign the face of the franchise – while getting a guy who, when healthy, can equal the offensive production you’re getting from your 1B and a pitcher who, if nothing else is craved by a lot of other teams and could be a valuable chip down the stretch – I might consider making the deal. Especially since I know I can’t keep Mauer, Morneau, Hunter, and Santana
Heres a question.. I honeslty have no idea..
Do players tend to get better or worse changing from the NL to the AL? Not jsut in the first year, but overall?
Garret Atkins is almost as bad a fielder as Miguel Cabrera. He also only had a .773 OPS on the road in 2007. I wouldn’t want to give up much for him.
SJ44, MurphyDog, others… think someone posted this the other day but does anyone have any information on Humberto Sanchez and his progress from surgery? Any chance he pitches in 2008 or is he just a 2009 and fingers crossed.
Thank you….
I wouldn’t make that deal. There are other teams out there that would make much better offers for an all star MVP still cheap first baseman.
If you think about what the Braves gave up for Tex, – and with Morneau still under their control for several more years, other teams out there will give me better players/prospects than that deal.
Pepper,
Sanchez will pitch in 2008. He started throwing again in August.
The Twins have no reason to trade Morneau. Why is he even being brought up?
I love how everyone is so eager is get rid of Kennedy. He is the most polished out the the young 3. Joba has nasty stuff, no doubt about it. But that is god given talent he was coming from.
Hughes has great stuff too, but was rushed up to the major and was rushed back from that hamstring (IMO).
Kennedy just seemed to have that big league stuff. Hes not overpowering but he can those spots and just throws strikes.
Total posturing by Cashman about A-Rod….you can’t tell me that if A-Rod is avaialable at a price that is 30mil LESS than what they were preparing to offer …that the Yankees wouldn’t jump at that. NOBODY is going to fill the seats at the new Stadium like A-Rod will….and that is the complete reason that Borass took A-Rod away to find out his value, then will come slithering back to Cashman and a deal is NOT impossible….Don’t believe the hype !
I hate looking in the past but the Yankees made a mistake not picking up Texeira. Wouldn’t need to Platoon at 1B, Release Giambi, Use Andy P as trade bait, but we need to look into future and the Twins will never give up Morneau
Pepper –
Sanchez is expected to be ready to pitch this Spring.
B -
I brought him up – it’s hot stove time right – why not throw some names out there and see what sticks.
“NOBODY is going to fill the seats at the new Stadium”
The new stadium, itself, is the attraction for the first two or three years as people want to see it live.
4Eva
Given who represents Tex I have no regrets about the Yankees not trading for him. There’s no way that Scott Boras would let him sign an extension with whatever team picked him up, so essentially the Yankees would have to pay twice for him, once with prospects and then with an overwhelming contract to justify the prospects that they gave up.
Last report had Humberto Sanchez throwing off of flat ground.
and get over the idea of the Yankees simply releasing Giambi. Will never happen.
I don’t want Lowell nor do I think there is any way the Sox let him go to the Yankees. They know besides Lowell there is nothing out there and also to get anybody we will have to trade one of the big three. I 100% do not want Crede. Maybe we should learn from Theo in not always throwing out those extra years for players who are going to decline soon.
Reading through the thread and definately think Atkins is a good pick up. Watch him play all the time and he would be a great pick up for the Yanks.
About Humberto Sanchez.
I don’t have the log, but in yesterdays ESPN chat, someone asked who the top 5 Yankee prospects were, and Im pretty sure he was mentioned with a “When Healthy” next to him..
I still cannot figure out why Kennedy is such a hot topic to trade. In case you have forgotten he proved he can pitch on the major league level(at least from his 3 starts).Is there a reason why you would dump that for a quick fix?Pitching and defense wins world series. Sure sluggers numbers look good on paper but haven’t we looked good on paper the last 6 years? We need to develop the youngsters. Just because they are tearing up the minors does not mean they will be successful here. Kennedy,Hughes and Joba proved they can hang at this level. Keep them together!
LifeLongYankFanBronxGuy: Bring in 4 guys: 1. Mike Lowell to 3B (Cano goes to 1B). 2. Ellis from Oakland to 2B. 3. Rowan to CF (Melky goes to LF). 4. Joe Nathan as set-up man. Trade Matsui, Duncan, and Mientkiewicz. This would totally solidify the infield and outfield, add some speed, make up for A-Rod’s RBI’s and greatly strengthen the pen. The added benefit is that these four guys are great “character” guys. This is DO-ABLE.
B/Phil 27′ Thanks for the update.
Like some of the options the Yankees have with young talent. Now, if they can just unload some of these ridiculous contracts, efficient machine.
Alex is not the reason that I got to all the games at Yankee stadium and travel to see the Yankees play.
Good to hear Humberto might be in the mix next year.
Phil that last report was a few months old, so he is likely already throwing off a mound.
Delmarva guy-
Cant see the Twins letting Nathan go.
Anyone have any info on Brackman? When will he return? I here this guy is the real deal also.
Delmarvaguy,
You are totally clueless. Cano at first? That would be a *colossal* waste of his talent. Trade Matsui? He of the full NTC? Right. Trade Doug M? He’s not even on the team anymore. Joe Nathan isn’t a free agent but I guess in your scenario we trade Shelly for him. Right?
You’re terrible.
Doug-
That was another question in yesterdays ESPN chat with BA..
Again id ont have the log or the quote, but they did answer that he’s a #1 starter when healthy.
Brackman had TJ in August. I think its 12-18 months for normal TJ rehab so don’t expect to hear from him till 09.
Delmavaguy,
DO-Able??? That was the most ridiculous post ive read here.
Think about this with Arod.
If Arod was on any other team, and just had opt out..
The Yankee’s would be drooling for him. They would goto ANY lengths to sign him.
If the Yankee’s needed a big bat third baseman, and a righty.. which they sooooo desperately do now, and Arod was a free agent.. all guns forward on Arod.
So what concerns me here is not the fact that Arod is gone (Although I won’t hide the fact that I wish he wasn’t)
Is that Hank/Hal seem to be running this team from an emotional place. If they continue to run this team from an emotional place, and not from a business standpoint we are doomed.
Hank/Hal to me, are acting like children and their inexperience is glowing in our faces. So even if you don’t wan’t Arod because of money, say that.. don’t act like a cry-baby saying “My way or the highway”. This isn’t a little league team it’s a professional sports team, and the most recognized franchise in sports period.
I’m not taking away the fact that Arod was absolutely an idiot for acting this way, and I am not saying he is more to blame the Boras. I am just saying that if your ultimate goal is to win the WS each in every year, letting the best HR hitter in baseball walk just because he opted out (which was known in his contract for years) because your pride and ego is in the way, just shows me that pride and ego will be in the way until our children get to hear the news of how Hank/Hal passed the torch to whomever.
This is a horrible way for them to start their tenure as the Yankees ultimate decision makers. All of them, include Arod are acting just as ridiculous as the parents I see yelling at the opposing team on the little league field, forgetting that they are children and crushing them with their young minds with their verbal trash talking.
Unless, we bring on Miggy Cabrera or Mike Lowell and another righty bat to compliment them (Which I don’t see happening), make ABSOLUTELY NO MISTAKE, THERE IS NO REPLACING AROD’S PRODUCTION.
To me, the Yankee’s have a great negotiating hand here.. if they were to open the doors to negotiating with Arod, they got some serious ammo to put him in a place with a deal that works to their favor and not his… ISN’T THAT WHY THEY WANTED TO ME WITH HIM BEFORE HE OPTED OUT???
So let Arod get his offers, let him be offered 30 million for 8 – 10 years. Okay? Then if I was the Yankee’s I would offer him the same for 6 years minus the 30 Million he cost me.
If that is not a test of how BAD he want’s to be a Yankee, I don’t know what is.
What I wouldn’t give to be Hank/Hal for just the next month.
“I still cannot figure out why Kennedy is such a hot topic to trade. In case you have forgotten he proved he can pitch on the major league level”
Because if you want to get good players, you have to trade good players. Personally, I’d try to center a deal for Santana around him and Melky. Young, cheap, good starter and young, cheap, good CFer? The Twins will HAVE to think about that.
As for 3B and 1B…don’t need all-stars. Betemit provides lefty power at both corners, now we just need righties with some power (not a huge amount, but some) to split time at both corners with him.
what i wouldnt give to keep people like fleas and delmarvaguy away from the front office.
“LifeLongYankFanBronxGuy: Bring in 4 guys: 1. Mike Lowell to 3B (Cano goes to 1B). 2. Ellis from Oakland to 2B. 3. Rowan to CF (Melky goes to LF). 4. Joe Nathan as set-up man. Trade Matsui, Duncan, and Mientkiewicz. This would totally solidify the infield and outfield, add some speed, make up for A-Rod’s RBI’s and greatly strengthen the pen. The added benefit is that these four guys are great “character†guys. This is DO-ABLE.”
Is this a joke? Brian Cashman would have to literally go crazy to make ANY of the moves you suggested.
Kennedy is such a mentioned as tradeable all the time because he doesn’t project as a top of the rotation starter. He doesn’t have the ace stuff of Hughes and Joba.
To paraphrase Keith Law: you can get an Ian Kennedy in just about every draft, the same can’t be said for Joba or Hughes.
oh yeah, I forgot to mention how good of an idea it is to totally nullify Melky’s cannon of an arm by moving him to LF.
The Yankee (and probably the Red Sox) are possibly the only team(s) that do not need ARod to sell seats.
Right. Kennedy doesn’t project as high as Hughes or Joba, but he did have a better year in the minors than Joba if you can believe that.
Kennedy was the minor league pitcher of the year, so his value is high right now.
I heard Gene Michael on XM radio for about 15 minutes this morning..
Arod is not coming back dreamers.. He blew it big time..When the owners call you and want to meet, suggestion you should meet with them. Really rich guys do not like to grovel……
Said everything you already know; joba to the rotation, does not wantto move cano to 3bif it can be avoided… Thinks the big 3; mo, jorge, and andy ill be back.. Loves girardi also really liked donnie baseball, and pena. he was involved in the interview process, said it was very thorough but long.. though girardi be able to work with the oppenheimers and otehrs to follow in on the plan of getting younger, cheaper, and more like the old teams then others.. they want to get back to developing there own and add FA’s here and there…
He did not really answer the questions that well, was evasive, just did what they always do answer with a non answer…
I think Bobby Abreu is an overweigth, out of shape low achiever. I think Girardi(not Cashman) should have a sitdown with Him before the Yankees consider resigning Him Cano needs some “inspiraional” assistance as well. He looked like He was carring a mack truck when drifting towards playble balls that dribbled thru the middle. Abreu wont’ go to the wall on fly balls………..That’s a must in a field with the stadiums dimensions.
Anyone familiar with Sherman’s book, Birth of a Dynasty, that can fill me in on the beginning of this ‘feud’ between michael kay and torre? Something to do with Paulie? thanks
Ed,
I think I saw Cano make more plays on balls just off the SS side of 2nd than Jeter.
“Because if you want to get good players, you have to trade good players. Personally, I’d try to center a deal for Santana around him and Melky. Young, cheap, good starter and young, cheap, good CFer? The Twins will HAVE to think about that.”
Whozat…your proposal about the trade for Santana is interesting. I find it even more interesting that when it was mentioned a couple days ago that the Red Sox might offer Coco Crisp and John Lester to the Twins for Santana several people on here stated that such a deal would be laughable. I don’t see a huge difference in the proposed trades. Of course Santana is one of the best pitchers in baseball, however if the Twins really feel that they will be unable to sign him after this next year then who knows what they might consider. It may be better for them to get something for Santana now than nothing for him a year from now.
B-
Meanwhile they have always said the same about Melky. “Melky is a dime a dozen”. The way I see it he played a big part into why we have made the playoffs the last 2 years. They keep down playing Melky meanwhile he has showed us he belongs in a Yankee uniform in centerfield. If you look at his playoff production he had as many rbi’s as our prized piece at 3rd base. Bottom line we should keep both Kennedy and Melky. No quick fix is going to put this team over the top. We still do not have a bullpen outside of Mo and Joba. Patience Yankees fans. Superstars are not the answer. The stadium will be packed because people will be excited to see the youth play. Last year people went crazy for Joba and Hughes. I did not see them going crazy for Juicebag Giambi. This team is hopefully done with quick fixes and superstar ego’s.
Melky is a dime a dozen. A CF with who doesn’t walk and doesn’t hit for power just isn’t that valuable to the Yankees. That’s why he should be moved if the right deal comes along.
Demarva obviously doesn’t take into account what players can do and just like to type to see his own name on the board. In other words, Demarva is clueless. None of that is doable as Nathan isn’t leaving the Twins as why they gave him a nice new contract. Matsui has a ntc. Minky is a free agent.
Didn’t anyone else see what Michael Kay is now saying about Torre. Seems Kay wasn’t a fan of Torre and is making no secret about it now.
Delmarva guy
November 2nd, 2007 at 11:33 am
LifeLongYankFanBronxGuy: Bring in 4 guys: 1. Mike Lowell to 3B (Cano goes to 1B). 2. Ellis from Oakland to 2B. 3. Rowan to CF (Melky goes to LF). 4. Joe Nathan as set-up man. Trade Matsui, Duncan, and Mientkiewicz. This would totally solidify the infield and outfield, add some speed, make up for A-Rod’s RBI’s and greatly strengthen the pen. The added benefit is that these four guys are great “character†guys. This is DO-ABLE.
Nathan’s option was picked up by the Twins, they’re not trading him. Matsui has a no trade and will not go anywhere. Mientkiewica is a free agent – he cannot be traded to anyone.
B-
Well the problem is, if you get rid of Melky in CF, you lose a lot of range..
Abreu can’t make up that ground, and either can Damon/Matsui..
So sure you can get rid of Melky and get a better bat, but you have to make sure the loss on the defensive side doesn’t counter-balance the offensive gain..
yeah, i’m trying to get more info on how this started. it doesn’t surprise me, kay is a puppet for the yanks. here is the article from the daily news.
New York Daily News columnist Bob Raissman reported Friday that not everyone was sad to see new Los Angeles Dodgers manager Joe Torre leave New York.
According to Raissman, New York Yankees play-by-play guy Michael Kay bashed Torre on his radio show Tuesday.
“There are things about Joe Torre, if I wanted to come out and say, would show how cold and calculated he really is,” Kay fumed. “… Joe Torre is for Joe Torre. … The graveyard of Yankees coaches is loaded with bones of coaches Joe Torre did nothing about.”
B-
Right so when Melky threw out Peralta in Game 2 at the plate any centerfielder could have done that right? How about if Damon threw that? Not to mention in Game 2 the only run we scored was a Melky homer. Your right he has no value to this team. We need a player who hits 50hr’s at that position. How silly of me.
Torre is the manager of the Dodgers now and Kay is an idiot. Move on.
We’ve got to remember that Melky is really young. He can, and probably will, still develop as a player.
It is very very rare for a player to have a great eye and walk a lot early in his career. That kind of thing will come in time and with coaching for Melky.
Have faith.
I think the Kay – Torre feud is in Torre’s book about the ’96 season (but I could be wrong). If I remember correctly, Torre heard something Kay said on a broadcast and felt that Kay was trying to cause trouble in the clubhouse. Torre confronted Kay soon after and tore him a new one in front of the players. Kay thought Joe should have done that one-on-one and that Torre was only trying to make Kay look bad in front of the team and make it look like Joe had the players’ backs.
yeah, along the lines of what murphydog said, check the post on was watching about the Kay/Torre relationship.
“Well the problem is, if you get rid of Melky in CF, you lose a lot of range..”
Damon has excellent range in CF, no arm, but excellent range.
Melky Cabrera Splits
April AB 75 OPS .451
May AB 59 OPS .762
June AB 94 OPS .811
July AB 106 OPS .938
Aug AB 111 OPS .818
Sept AB 100 OPS .456
At 23 years old I have to think that he’ll get better and some .800 OPS seasons are in his future. When he started getting regular playing time in June he was on fire apart from his September when he slumped. Isn’t it a little early for the jury to be out on Melky?
“I find it even more interesting that when it was mentioned a couple days ago that the Red Sox might offer Coco Crisp and John Lester to the Twins for Santana several people on here stated that such a deal would be laughable. I don’t see a huge difference in the proposed trades.”
Laughable from whose perspective?
The biggest reason the deals are different is money. Melky costs less than 400 grand a year, and would be under the Twinkies control for four more seasons before free agency. Crisp costs millions, and his contract is up in two years. Crisp might rebound, but Melky is still years from his prime. Crisp has more range, Melky has a better arm. Also, I think Kennedy is better than Lester. Also, Kennedy’s stock is high.
Also, were the people lambasting the deal assuming that Santana goes to free agency after one year? If so, then both deals would be dumb. That’s why you make the deal contingent upon Santana and the Yanks agreeing on an extension. If he refuses, or will only take a 3 year extension or something, then no deal. No harm, no foul.
But, about the only thing I trade Kennedy for is more pitching. MAYBE in a deal that nets us two pieces we need, like a setup guy and a corner IFer. But I’m not sold on the Atkins/Fuentes idea that was brought up. Frankly, if we’re going to get a middling fielder for 3B, sign Mike Lamb. He’s tolerable at both corners, and has put up an OPS over .800 in three of his last four seasons.
Betemit provides lefty power at both corners, Lamb provides some righty power and patience at both corners, and mix in Duncan off the bench, at 1B, and in the corner OF positions. And Giambi if he can stay healthy at 1B.
“It is very very rare for a player to have a great eye and walk a lot early in his career.”
No it’s not. What is very very rare is someone who has none, like Melky, to develop any.
raymagnetic-
Thanks for the stats. Melkey will improve. Hes not at his peak at his age. Hes still very young and will develop more.
Okay, so if it came down to it, who would you trade for Santana?
Melky or Kennedy?
I personally wouldn’t trade either, but I’m biased towards the young’uns.
i dont think anyone is saying that we need to just get rid of Melky or IPK because they arent good or will never be good. Like someone said already, you need to give up good players to get good players.
to get a player like Santana, you arent trading Tyler Clippard, Bronson Sardinha and Eric Duncan.
murphydog,
That so-called “feud” didn’t involve Michael Kay.
It involved Al Trautwig and something he said on the Yanks’ broadcast about Paul O’Neill and his bad wheel.
to get Santana, it’ll take both of them, plus another positional prospect more than likely.
uh, I’m the rumor floated about Johan to the Yankees was NOT for Kennedy and Melky. It was for Kennedy, Melky AND Wang. Big difference.
oops, typo with “I’m” but you get the point.
“Okay, so if it came down to it, who would you trade for Santana?
Melky or Kennedy?”
If you think either one of them could get him by himself, you’re nuts.
Teams aren’t going to trade for one year of Santana. They’re going to trade for him and extend him. Therefore, deals are going to have to include multiple pieces of MLB-ready talent.
If Santana’s not going to sign, I don’t think the Twins are going to move him. They’d not really get enough in return. Maybe one blue-chipper.
Ed:
Bobby Abreu is not an overweight, out of shape ballplayer.
Granted, he came to Spring Training like that..and paid the price with an oblique injury. During the season he whipped himself into shape (inspired by none other than – ARod). He was arguably the fastest Yankee hitter from Home to first and contributed 25 SBs as a No. 3 hitter.
I agree, however, that he is a “soft” player. He sometimes tries to play umpire and loses agressiveness at the Plate.
The primary reason he looks ponderous in the outfield is because he is so unsure of himself – he rarely gets a good read on the ball that’s hit. He is a weak outfielder, fence shy, but with a good arm – not unlike Reggie in his Yankee years.
Poor Melky gets no respect! Remember, this kid is still 24 yrs old and developing. When Don Mattingly was hitting instructor, he believed that Melky had potential to hit 20-25 HRs a season when he “grew into his body”. The concern is that he may grow to much..like Kareem Garcia. Still, this guy is the Yanks best defensive weapon, plays a good CF and will likely be better as a corner outfielder.
73 RBIs as prmarily a No.8 or No. 9 hitter is pretty damn good!
Melky a “dime a dozen”? Maybe. That was also the scouting report on another Yankee when he was promoted in the 80s – Don Mattingly.
Melky will never be a star like Mattingly, but he shows some promise to be a solid corner outfielder if he keeps in reasonable shape.
“Okay, so if it came down to it, who would you trade for Santana?
Melky or Kennedy?
I personally wouldn’t trade either, but I’m biased towards the young’uns.”
We’re talking about one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball who is still just 28, a CF that projects as league average at best, and a young pitcher who hasn’t proven anything yet. You’d be a fool to not trade both those guys for Johan.
No thanks to Johan Santana. Depth in the rotation is far more important than an “ace.”
Wait till next year when they can sign him without having to trade their future away for him.
Also, there is no chance Santana comes to the Yankees without giving up Hughes and/or Joba in return.
Wang is not a good fit for that team. A sinkerballer like Wang pitching on turf would be like Kei Igawa pitching at Coors.
“No thanks to Johan Santana. Depth in the rotation is far more important than an “ace.—
Tell that to Cleveland and Boston. Besides, we’d still have two young pitchers with ace potential, Andy Pettite, and Mike Mussina. The depth will be there next season even if we moved both Wang and IPK for Santana.
Melky and Kennedy for Santana will never happen. There are at least 6-8 teams with the talent and the cash resources to offer more to the Twins.
Rotation depth is important, but having an “ace” like Santana is a must for winning in the Post Season. Do you think that the Red Sox beat Cleveland without Beckett this year?
Argument Against Signing Lowell
Look at his splits at home and away. The spray chart shows almost all of his hits going to left field, most against the monster. All his HRs were above the monster. All but one double was down the left field line. Look at his splits:
Home: 292 ab/ 15 2B/ 14 HR/ .373 avg
Away: 297 ab/ 22 2B/ 7 HR/ .276 avg
These stats would not relate well to him playing in yankee stadium. Bottom line is that he is a smart player who has taken advantage of the short left field at Fenway. We should not pursue him other than to raise the price for boston.
Trade Igawa to SD for 3B Kousmanoff and another low level prospect (Wright, Clippard etc.). The Padres wanted KI bad this year, and Kousmanoff is a decent defender. The NYY don’t need a great 3B, only one who won’t embarass them and can hit with some power from RT side. This would make most sense and he would come cheap.
Agreed. Ace trumps depth, at least in the postseason.
LathamJoe more sound insight..
Zumaya getting hurt really hurts Detroit…Jones is a FA and no Zumaya will cause then to overpay for some help.. Jairgunes was a very good pitching prospect also.. I am not sure what they have in the minors but the rest of there team is very very good…
Melky is actually only 23… I say keep all the young guys………..They should have 3 or more power arms for the pen this yr. with sanchez, cox, and melancon to name a few along with ohlendorf whole yr in the pen and Veras(I do not personally like his pitching)..
I read on RIveraveblues an interesting analysis on Lowell. Fenway treats him well, after reading this article a 4 yr contract for mucho dinero seems like a bad idea……
Crede I know he has alow OBP but if gotten for nothing is worth a shot……..
Kouzamanoff is a total hack defesnively at 3B, which is why when the Yankees inquired about him beofre dealing Sheff to Detroit, they looked at him as a 1B propsect.
_The depth will be there next season even if we moved both Wang and IPK for Santana._
The Twins aren’t going to want Wang. How is that so hard to understand?
The Yanks would have to give up Joba or Hughes and other young talent or they won’t get Santana. It’s that simple.
stuart-
Yah the ‘gotten for nothing’ part is the key. If he costs a lot and then wants an extension or something, we have to trun our heads. Hes just not that good.
“There are at least 6-8 teams with the talent and the cash resources to offer more to the Twins.”
Ok. List them. Teams that will give up something more than the MiLB pitcher of the year, who also has major league experience, and a 23 year old switch hitting CFer with a cannon that hit extremely well once he started getting consistent playing time, but wore down at the end of the season.
Also, I didn’t say that was it. I said a deal centered around them. Add in Horne, or maybe Dellin Betances. I mean…the Red Sox, for example, COULD offer Lester, Bucholz and Crisp, but they wouldn’t.
Here is the link to Lowell’s spray chart. Courtesy of RAB
http://riveraveblues.com/wp-co.....ychart.jpg
Heh, well there’s a reason I’m not the GM
I think when Melky learns to hit (not if, when), we probably won’t be so anxious to trade him.
Santana is one of the league’s best, but I believe he had a lousy second half this hear and finished at 15-13…would have me a little concerned, but again, there’s a damn good reason I’m not the GM
“Kouzamanoff is a total hack defesnively at 3B, which is why when the Yankees inquired about him beofre dealing Sheff to Detroit, they looked at him as a 1B propsect.”
Well, I’d take him as a 1B on this team as well.
As for needing a solid defensive 3B…I think they DO. With Wang and Andy both having strong groundball tendencies, having the entire left side of the IF be below average defensively could be a problem. Good D helps the pitching look better.
Keith,
Thats exactly what I am talking about. Half of those hits off the wall would be caught in yankee stadium. We should leak a deal that we want to offer but have intention of giving it to him, just so the redsox need to include a 4th year
Rotation depth is important, but having an “ace†like Santana is a must for winning in the Post Season. Do you think that the Red Sox beat Cleveland without Beckett this year?
Last time I checked didn’t Barry Zito outpitch Santana in the postseason? Santana has not proved to be a winning formula in Minn come postseason time.
Rebecca,
Don’t judge a pitcher on his W-L record. Santana wasn’t as sharp as he usually is in the second half, but he wasn’t terrible.
“we probably won’t be so anxious to trade him.”
Here’s a problem that always crops up in these offseason fan discussions…being WILLING to trade someone and being ANXIOUS to trade someone are very, VERY different. Most aren’t saying “trade Melky for a 28 year old corner OFer in A ball”, we’re saying “well, I need some good players in return…who can I afford to part with that has value?” Melky has value, and he’s not irreplaceable, especially not with Jackson and Tabata on the radar for just a few years from now.
Johan dropped off a bit in the second half after the Twins made it clear they were sellers, and not buyers.
They traded away their starting second basemen for some young prospects.
I remember Johan coming out and asking ‘why?’. Because they weren’t that far out at that point.
So I tihnk he got a little upset with the organization.
Aces absolutely DO NOT trump depth. What happens if your ace loses to another team’s ace in Game 1?
You’re screwed.
I don’t care if you have Bob Gibson or Sandy Koufax pitching for your team in Game 1 — he can have a bad game against the other team’s ace and lose.
It’s far more important to have the edge in the pitching matchups in Games 2-4 because of your strong depth than it is to have the advantage in Game 1.
Look no further than the Yankee dynasty of the late 1990s. Other teams had a better “ace” than the Yanks did. But no other team could match the Yanks’ depth when you throw guys like El Duque, Wells, Cone, and Pettitte night after night after night.
That it why the Yanks were so tough to beat in the postseason — not because they had an “ace” than was better than the other team’s ace.
Keep in mind that Johan Santana clearly had the edge against Barry Zito in Game 1 of the 2006 ALDS and got outpitched.
Those games are crapshoots. The Twins were screwed after Santana lost because their rotation after his turn didn’t scare anyone and didn’t match up well against Oakland’s rotation after Zito.
“Aces absolutely DO NOT trump depth. What happens if your ace loses to another team’s ace in Game 1?”
We would still have depth though.
Santana, Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain, Mussina.
That’s a ton more depth than Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy
“Keep in mind that Johan Santana clearly had the edge against Barry Zito in Game 1 of the 2006 ALDS and got outpitched.”
Stuff like this kills me. YOU CANNOT JUDGE A PLAYER BASED ON ONE GAME.
Um, they are not getting Santana without giving up Hughes or Joba.
That’s all there is to it.
Well yes I think its safe to say an Ace AND depth trumps everything..
Well, everything except luck. Nothing trumps luck.
_Stuff like this kills me. YOU CANNOT JUDGE A PLAYER BASED ON ONE GAME._
Are you high?
That wasn’t a knock against Santana. The point is that any “ace” can have a bad game or get outpitched by the other team’s “ace.”
I’d rather have the big advantage in Games 2, 3, and 4 than in Game 1.
“Um, they are not getting Santana without giving up Hughes or Joba.
That’s all there is to it.”
I disagree. The Twins highly value control specialists and I think they’d love a chance at Kennedy. Throw in Melky and Wang, and I think they might bite.
Giuseppe Franco,
I wish I was. Anyways, I mistook you point because an earlier poster was using that game as a reason not to get Santana.
“Um, they are not getting Santana without giving up Hughes or Joba.”
Why? Who’s giving up a better pitcher than Ian Kennedy in a deal for Santana? Are the Sox sending Bucholz? Are the Reds sending Homer Bailey? Are the Phils sending Cole Hamels?
According to the NJ Star-Ledger, the Yanks picked up Abreu’s option today.
“Throw in Melky and Wang, and I think they might bite.”
Throwing in Wang is just dumb, for both sides. The Twins don’t want an extreme groundballer on their Turf. And the Yankees shouldn’t give up the guy who’s won 38 games over the last two seasons.
When making up these deals, you have to look around and see what other teams are offering. Is anyone else giving up a blue chip pitching prospect, a 19 game winner with an ERA below 4 who’s barely arbitration eligible, and a switch-hitting 23 year old CFer who’s still a year from arbitration?
I’d go with depth over an ace, but having an ace would be pretty cool as well.
And then there’s that some pitchers-Andy Pettitte and Josh Beckett come to mind-that are simply that much better the higher-pressure the situation.
Santana’s still the best out there, yeah, but part of me wants to see how he performs first half before making any trades…especially since that would give the Yankees more time to see how Phil/Joba/Ian, aka the trinity, perform when playing regularly at the ML level. Who knows, maybe Ian will be something like 10-2, 2.85 while Phil is 6-5, 4.89…Smoltz and Maddox weren’t terribly good their rookie years, as far as I remember, and you certainly can’t gauge what the Ian/Phil/Joba era is going to be like on 2007 performances alone.
Kennedy Melky and wang. Are you nuts!! NO way would I do that.
If the Star Ledger is correct, then that is great news! I’m a Bobby fan…
Melky and Kennedy and another two second tier prospects for Santana is deal worth doing for a number of reasons.
Santana will make the Yankees a mint through merchandising and the Yankees do look at that when considering players.
Santana
Wang
Petitte
Joba
Mussina/Hughes
That’s a wonderful rotation to have and well worth the loss of Kennedy and Melky. Melky has a good arm and saved a few runs in his time, but the pitching of Santana more than makes up for that arm being gone.
Yankees need to seriously consider that trade and do it. A three year extension with a club option for a fourth needs to be part of it. Santana would dominate in Yankee stadium and would be a nice piece to have when the new stadium opens.
Yankees are knee deep in pitching and can afford to send some away to get Santana cause Santana helps their bottom line.
I’ll be glad if they did sign Bobby.
I just hope hes not hitting .200 for the first 3 months again.
That was brutal.
And the number of homeruns that Santana gave up this year is alarming. 33 homeruns last year, plus he does give up alot on avg as well.
I think that horrible avg to start was due to his injury.
Good news on Bob Kelly.
I see you guys are debating about trading Kennedy for position players.
You’ve heard everyone and their grandmother say pitching wins championships. Is it a coincidence that the Yankees dynasty had pitchers like Pettitte, Cone, Wells, and later Clemens?
You need a good, young core with some vets. That’s what we have now. BTW, for those who want to ship off Kennedy, he was a very, very good college pitcher. If he’s getting compared him to Moose, I’ll take that. Moose has won a few games in his day.
“see what other teams are offering”
And, by this, I meant COULD offer. And, who might have the money to extend Santana.
The Twins have holes in CF and 2B, and are always looking for cheap pitching. Who matches up well? The Dodgers could offer Kemp/Ethier and that lefty pitcher they have at AAA that’s highly touted, but I think has control problems. The Angels could offer Kendrick and some pitching, but they won’t. He’s a great hitter that’s cheap, and I don’t think they have someone behind him in the minors. Maybe the Twins would be interested in Brandon Wood, who might be available if the Angels sign ARod.
Other thoughts, people?
“You need a good, young core with some vets. That’s what we have now. BTW, for those who want to ship off Kennedy, he was a very, very good college pitcher.”
yes, we know. Again, as I said, WANTING to trade someone and BEING WILLING to trade someone are different. Joba and Hughes make Kennedy expendable. That doesn’t mean you trade him for bums, but if he and Melky (and some fringe pieces) can net you Santana for the next four or five years…how can you NOT do that?
It is funny how 2 different people could sit in the same room and listen to the same thing and walk away with two different perspectives. Read Joel Shermans article on Joe G’s interview session, than read Mark F of the Daily news.
The Twins are getting a new stadium. They probably won’t ready to compete again until it’s built anyway.
When you guys refer to Johan getting beat by Zito the score was 1-0 or 2-0 I believe, I wouldn’t say he pitched to shabby of a game, Zito just dominated the Twins lineup
People need to realize that Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy are not the only impact pitching prospects we have in the system.
Shipping one off(preferably Kennedy) isn’t the end of the world. Nothing against Kennedy, he’s a solid pitcher and probably in line for the most innings of the 3 next year but his ceiling is the lowest of the 3.
Giuseppe Franco:
I beg to differ. There may have been something else involving Trautwig, but I’m pretty sure about the Torre-Kay incident.
If the Dodgers really want Santana then they’ll get him. They have too many talented young players for anyone to compete with. Coletti might just be dumb enough to part with them, too.
not a good move in picking up Abreu, he’s gonna need a legit number 4 protecting him, it’s his contract yr. hopefully we catch lightning in a bottle but already we decreased our OF defense.
How can we decrease our OF defense if we have the save exact OF?
Kennedy is the best option to trade right now, Ill agree with that.
He won the minor league pitcher of the year, and was solid in his short time in the majors. His value is very high right now.
That said, I still want the Yankees to be very careful if they are shopping him.
edit…same exact OF?
“Coletti might just be dumb enough to part with them, too.”
Then, more power to them. If the Twinkies get an offer that can only be topped by offering Ian AND Melky AND Hughes/Joba/Cano…then, hey…let it go.
From Was Watching: http://www.waswatching.com/arc....._dyna.html
How many people know that Joe Torre called Michael Kay on the carpet, in front of the entire team, when he thought Kay was trying to sabotage his relationship with O’Neill?
It was Trautwig, not Kay.
The incident was mentioned and played out in the Torre movie:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0128285/
guys can you please stop with the fantasy trades. this isn’t a video game, you can’t just say “trade damon giambi and rasner for johan” thats not gonna happen. the yanks cannot trade damon mastsui and giambi, why would anybody want either of those guys ? they are completely over paid ! as for clippard rasner desalvo, why would an organization take these guys? every organization has these types of pitchers (back end of the rotation or long man) every organization will want a prized prospect not 4 or 5 average ones.
if the yankees are to make a big trade they will have to part with hughes kennedy or joba. its that simple. Since that will be the case I do not see cash$ making any big trades.
so please, i beg you, stop with these fantasy trades. to land cabrera or johan it will take ALOT. look what the sox gave up for beckett.
Here’s a tidbit on the Yankees Arod story:
From ESPN:
Before Alex Rodriguez opted out of his contract with the Yankees earlier this week, the team was told that it would not be able to meet with the third baseman unless it presented an offer of at least $350 million, sources say.
Giuseppe Franco:
I admit not being familiar with the Torre Movie. But I read Sherman’s book and Torre’s book. Did you by any chance take a moment and read the Was Watching Archive link I posted? It’s hard to square your position with that archive link, but I’m willing to be wrong if “Was” is wrong too.
forgot to include the link:
ESPN Arod/Yankees story
And now ESPNEWS has that the Yankees picked up Bobby’s option. That sounds like a good idea, he is still a better fit than some of the other free agents out there.
Steve,
At the time of the Beckett trade Hanley Ramirez was coming off a very mediocre season at Double A and scouts were beginning to wonder if his performance would ever match his tools. He also had major makeup issues. Anibal Sanchez was also more of a B prospect than an elite young pitcher. The Sox did not give up that much for Josh Beckett.
Any chance that cash picked up abreus option to then trade him?
So we get Kouzmanoff to play first by trading Igawa. Then we grab Beltre for Damon and have Jeter bat leadoff. Yes I know his natural spot is 2 but he had good numbers as a leadoff hitter as well.
Jeter
Cano
Abreu
Matsui
Kouz
Posada
Beltre
Giambi
Melky
A-Rod wants $350 million? He’s like not going to be playing baseball anywhere…
You know, if I was baseball commissioner I’d institute a rule: For contracts over, say $60 million, for every million earned you need to donate $100 to charity or do an hour of community service.
Obviously, not a lot, but damn, it’s not like you’re in danger of starving to death if you’re making “only” $1 million a year!
it saids “SOURCES SAIDS” , therefore it must be right, it has to be !!!
SOURCES ARE NEVER WRONG !!!
Interesting take:
Patrick (NY): You’ve said A-Rod is a longshot for a number of teams. So what teams are a closeshot (is that a real word)?
Jayson Stark: (1:40 PM ET ) Here’s how you need to analyze this: Don’t look at which teams need a 3B, or which teams need a cleanup hitter. Look at the business model Scott Boras has presented in trying to justify why this guy is a $30-million-a-year player. You need to look first at teams with Regional Sports Networks and revenue-producing upside. Very few teams fit that model. The Red Sox and Mets do to some extent — the Mets more than the Red Sox. But they have baseball complications that might preclude that. The Giants don’t fit the model. The Dodgers don’t. Even the Angels don’t. So there really isn’t a team, other than the Yankees, where the fit is there. But they’ve blown that chance. So I keep pointing to the Tigers. They’ve served as Boras’ safety net several times before. Why not now if all else fails?
Rebecca, that’s a great idea…but the Players Association would never let him impose that on their players.
B, I disagree. Hanley was viewed as a top, elite prospect (at least he was by far the #1 position prospect for Boston) and Anibal was right behind Jon Lester and maybe Papelbon. Sanchez had just come off a 1-hitter. While the Sox were able to get away without giving Lester or Papelbon, it was viewed as a good trade for both teams. This may not be accurate but I would use Tabata along with Kennedy or Horne as an example.
sunny615 Boras is nuts. The Yankees should slam the door and throw away the key.
Why would Seattle want Damon? They already have Ibanez, Ichiro, Guillen and Jones in the outfield.
When Abreu’s right, he’s a real problem for opposing pitchers and epitomizes the Yankee offensive style of patience and seeing a lot of pitches. (With a good eye and bat control, it’s arguable he is useful in hit and run situations or more frequent steal attempts by Damon and Jeter if that’s more Girardi’s speed). In the field, he is overly tentative near the wall and has often seemed inattentive to Melky’s call as the CF on balls near the gap. His arm is strong and accurate, however, and is respected.
All things considered, given the FA market and likely prices of top OF talent, picking up the option was good. (Even if they did it just to turn around and trade him, a la Sheffield).
Is this right: If the Yanks offer A-Rod arbitration to get the draft picks, and A-Rod doesn’t get the offer he wants elsewhere, A-Rod can force the Yankees to take him back at a hefty raise for one year via arbitration?
If so, you better hope Detroit wants Rod.
B,
they still have up 4 players in the deal for him. granted they got mota and lowell but that was more of a “if you take beckett you have to take lowell” i remember the yankees were debating that trade but they didn’t have room for lowell. hanley ramirez had an ok year at the time but his previous years were pretty good. my point is you have to give something up to get something, do you honestly thing anyone would trade for damon and his contract ? or giambi and his 20+ million ? not only that but get something DECENT in return ? come on. or how about johan or cabrera for anyone less than one of the big three plus melky and someone at a lower level. tell me with a straight face without laughing you can get johan for “clippard, desalvo, duncan and melky” or some other ridiculous package people keep posting, why on earth would anyone make a trade like that, johan is the best pitcher on the planet. (as much as it pains me to say this, maybe 2nd behind beckett.)
Rick (NYC): Can Wilson Betemit be a starter at 3B for the Yankees next year (assuming they sign Posada) and then upgrade 1B instead?
Jayson Stark: (1:18 PM ET ) I don’t think the Yankees view him as an every-day option, even though you can see the talent. This is a guy who needs to get himself in better shape and commit to being the player he can be before any team will look at him as a starting player on a team with a chance to win something.
I don’t disagree jennifer. If I could, I’d be the one doing the slamming.
If A-Rod agrees to arbitration, if it comes to that, he’d have to take a huge pay cut, no? Cos otherwise he’d have no team to play for…
Either way, A-Rod/Boras handled this in the worst possible way, IMO.
350$ million?
Are you kidding me?
Wow. Maybe that explains why the Yankees have been really standoff-ish lately.
I mean they’ve beenr eally vocal about not talking to Arod right? Maybe thats part of the reason why.
Rebecca,
That $350M is the Yankee “Discount”. It’s called extortion. Of course he’ll settle for less to play somewhere else. He’ll have to. Or he can always play for the Mudhens.
arod arbitration which will never happen would be for 1 yr. ovrpaying for 1 yr is not like overpaying for 10 yrs….
what gm/owner will be scammed this time by borass and payrod/afraud??????
the yanks are not going to do much this offseason, 3B probably and that is it…
gone; villone, viz, and minky.
young guys in middle relief etc…
So what do you guys think is the most likely scenario:
1) A-Rod and/or Boras really truly believe they can get the $350 million from somewhere
2) A-Rod and/or Boras really truly believe the Yankees will pursue him in the end
3) Tampering of some sort
4) A-Rod and/or Boras called a bluff that wasn’t a bluff
5) A-Rod and/or Boras simply just messed up, big time?
Hot Stove analysis from SI’s Nate Silver…
I have to admit – it’s very… objective? And I would be the first to disagree with several of his points… but here it is if you’re interested.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ast/1.html
Here’s some points rarely discussed about Abreu that I think factors into the Yankees picking up his option:
1. Only 1 year- good stop gap measure
2. Rarely, if ever, gets hurt- stays in the line-up invaluable
3. Proven he can handle NY– some stars just can’t
4. Good fit in the clubhouse– apparently pretty damn likeable
5. Shown the ability to overcome; can battle back and handle adversity. Terrible start last year wound up being respectable overall.
Soft OF, oh yes,, gets into funks at the plate; certainly
But overall a good choice right now
Someone at work just said they picked up abreu’s option. Sorry if its already been posted. On a blackberry and didn’t feel like going through the comments
Boras just likes to talk. No reason to pay attention to what he says until a deal is done.
I’m really appalled by the $350 million speaking fee. I really have trouble thinking that ANY team is going to sign A-Rod for MORE than $30 million a year for TEN years.
Its a shame what A-Rod is doing/has done to his reputation. He could have opted out without near the damage to his reputation if done in an above-board way. Sad.
I’m in the camp that says that we don’t need to do a lot in the off season except sign Mo, Po, and sweet talk Pettit. Our young arms will help in middle relief. Heck, we even have enough to cover 1st and 3rd bases. Its amazing how much good, young SP can do with 800-900 runs a year. (which is the number we can do WITHOUT adding any 30+ year old free agents)
Keep the kids.
Here’s a bit more from that arod/yankee article:
The Yankees had hoped to meet with Rodriguez this week, and would have presented him with an extension offer close to five years and $150 million, to begin at the conclusion of his 2008-2010 contract, through which he would have earned $81 million. Through the Yankees’ proposal, then, Rodriguez would have made about $230 million over eight years, and during the last five years of the contract, sources say, he would have earned the highest annual salary in Major League Baseball history.
But team executives were told, sources say, that in order to arrange a meeting with Rodriguez, they would have to be prepared to make an extension offer that would take the third baseman’s deal up to a total value of $350 million. That means that the offer the Yankees intended to propose would have been more than $100 million short.
sunny615,
Not SI’s Nate Silver, Baseball Prospectus’ Nate Silver. He ran the same article on BP earlier this week. It offers an extremem take, but there are some interesting ideas for the team.
I actually have a poll up on my blog (shameless plug =\ ) about if you think the Yankees will even consider talking to Arod at somepoint this offseason or not.
If no teams bid on Arod as high as he and Boras are asking, his price is going to drop way down..
murphydog -
If both the Yankees and Arod agree to arbitration then he could indeed get a hefty raise… but that would be up to the arbitrator. I believe the Yankees would have to offer no less than 80% of his previous year’s salary.
I wanted A-Rod back ONLY if he signed extention & we got to use the Texas $. His arrogance of not even returning the calls of Cashman & Hank S. is an absolute disgrace. With us & Boston out of the bidding war I hope he winds up with way less than Yanks would have given him.
Any team foolish enough to give him big $ will have to weaken their team to afford him, thereby guaranteeing no Post Season for him to fail in once again, which is what I think he really wants.
Spend his $ on a strong bullpen. Girardi will be happy & able to manufacture runs for us. We havemore than eough hitting if we can just top the other teams from scoring.
Joe G. will be a great manager, & I am so glad we got him.
Whether the article is true or not I wouldnt put anything past Bor-ASS. There is a reason why no one likes Arod, this definitley made it worse for him. When the Angels sign him they will be sorry after 3 or 4 years since he is already 32 and will not be as productive from 37-40 years old. The Yanks just saved themselves a boat load of money(they should be on a new geico commerical). Now it might look bad but they will be happy in a couple of years that they wont be playing a 37 year old $30m plus a year.
Who are you kidding that ARod won’t get what he wants.
Arods price will never drop down. Teams will pay the $30 million a year and give him the years he wants. You must be drunk to think that there aren’t teams out there that don’t want ARod there and his new shirts, jerseys, hats, and other assorted nonsense with his name on it selling like wildfire.
Arod will get $30 million a year and just cause the Yanks are out doesn’t mean his price will drop. Be realistic. This is ARod we are talking about and teams have boatloads of money coming in and most can afford the absurd contract he will get.
Maybe, but how many teams can afford a $33 mil per player for the next 10-12 years?
“That’s that,” he said. “The fact of the matter is he’s not our third baseman. That’s a fact. The rest of it? It truly is noise.”
I JUST LOVE IT!!!! BORAS = JACKASS!
Joe G,
you don’t think AROD’s popularity has deteriated a bit given his recent event? let alone, the bush league play in TOR, the bitch-slapping vs. BOS, and I could go on and on, not to mention the disappearance of his bat come October. I don’t know why, now, anyone would want to wear a jersey bearing his name???