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Boras is not to blame, A-Rod is

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 04, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

There have been several thousand posts here in the last week and half them are from people who want the head of Scott Boras on a stake. Columnists from across the country and ripping him as well.

It’s misguided anger.

There are dozens of agents available to a baseball player. When a player selects Boras, it is because he wants to maximize the amount of money he can make in his career.

Boras is great at what he does and gets his clients huge contracts. The downside is that he will generate ill will. Fans will become angry with you because of what your agent does and says. The media will criticize you. But in the end, you will probably be wealthier than a player with similar talent but a different agent.

Boras doesn’t work for the fans, the game, the team or the owner. He works for the player. The player decides what he wants and instructs Boras to get it done.

If Alex Rodriguez wanted to stay with the Yankees, it would have been simple. He could have called Boras and said, “Scott, I appreciate your advice. Now call Cashman and make the best deal you can for me.”

He didn’t.

Ron Villone is a Boras client. We were talking about it a few months ago and he told me that on several occasions during his career, Boras wanted him to sign with a certain team and he didn’t. “At some point you have to do what is best for you and your family,” Villone said. “You’re a man, you make your own decision.”

Villone is divorced and has two children who live in New Jersey with his ex wife. He made a deal to stay with the Yankees this season and turned down better offers because he wanted to be close to home. He even started the season in the minors.

Boras didn’t scream at him, he made the deal that Villone wanted.

Some people want to believe Boras has some sort of hypnotic hold on his clients and the poor player is a somehow a pawn. But these are adults. If A-Rod is capable of living to the age of 32, getting married and having a child, he is capable of telling his agent what he wants.

In the two seasons I have been around the Yankees, only one player has talked about his salary time after time after time. About how being the highest paid player is “pretty cool”, about the pressure of being the highest paid player and about the responsibility of being the highest paid player.

One guess who that is.

Scott Boras wasn’t above him manipulating any strings. If you want to be angry about Alex Rodriguez turning his back on the Yankees, be angry at Alex Rodriguez.

Blame Boras? That’s just what they want you to do.

Comments

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420 Responses to “Boras is not to blame, A-Rod is”

  1. EricNS November 4th, 2007 at 7:31 am

    Good point – Varitek wanted to stay with Boston and Bernie did not want another team this year.

  2. Vader November 4th, 2007 at 7:42 am

    I have mixed feelings about A-Rod, as much as I want him to stay, since he is the best player in the game today, it is stuff like this that will make me forget him. I never in my life thought I would agree with Steve Phillips, but he was correct, A-Rod is a 24 and 1 guy.

  3. Mr. Faded Glory November 4th, 2007 at 7:50 am

    Pete, when do we get to start “blaming Joe Torre” for also choosing not to be a Yankee instead of throwing the organization under the bus?

  4. jessica November 4th, 2007 at 8:07 am

    I totally agree with you,Pete.Agents work for players,not players work for agents.A-Rod is all about himself and money.

  5. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 8:20 am

    In any given transaction it is fair to assume that the agent is the employee of the player. In that regard, Boras and A-Rod are no different. Boras does what the client wants limited only by Boras’ judgment, skill, common sense and the bounds of ethical behavior.

    No agent who wants to stay in the business makes a client do anything. What if it turns out badly? Unless it was the player’s choice, the agent is either going to be sued or his rep will take a huge hit. The Villone case is a clear example. Boras’ continued representation of Villone despite Ron’s lower earning potential and unwillingness to go full bore in his pursuit of the dollar speaks to Boras’ understanding that the client makes the ultimate choice. A-Rod, however, is no ordinary client.

    It’s unfair to make Boras play Rasputin to A-Rod’s inner Nicolas or Alexandria, but I do think that A-Rod has a very unique relationship with Boras. I have read that A-Rod was with Boras since he was 17 or so. Rod seems quite bright, albeit without the polish of college, law school or post grad academics, and could have met the academic requirements for doctor or lawyer. I have no doubt that Rod has understood and absorbed everything Boras has told him over the years. A-Rod in effect has applied his natural intelligence to leverage Boras’ formal knowledge into a Ph.D in baseball economics for Alexander Rodriguez. Thus, Boras is “father to the man” in some respects and it would appear that Scott has had a mentoring effect on A-Rod that is more profound than in most client-agent relationships.

    All that said, who bears final responsibility for A-Rod the monster? Clear away all the smoke and follow the money: Boras gets his percentage but A-Rod takes home the lion’s share.

  6. TKinDC November 4th, 2007 at 8:23 am

    Pete-

    Mad Dog Russo keeps on joking around about Boras brainwashing A-Rod in Cali before the negotiations got going. Apparently the element of Yankee fans who are detached from reality have bought in.

    I’m just interested to see whether Boras has a $350M offer circling the airfields or if this is all just a huge bluff. At least it looks like Hank and Hal won’t being played like Tom Hicks was as the owner of the Rangers.

  7. Annie Savoy November 4th, 2007 at 8:37 am

    Earlier this season, when I made some ARod remarks, I was chastised because I dissed the ‘Best Player in Baseball’. What I want to know is, why did it take so long for all of you figure Alex out? This all started years ago in Seattle.

    He’s just another spoiled brat and it’s interesting that two other spoiled brats (Hal and Hank) have spoiled Alex’s party.

    Will any team take him now??????????

  8. catya November 4th, 2007 at 8:43 am

    Peter, maybe you haven’t read the scathing denunciations toward Arod too, I know Arod is calling the shots.The reason Boras is getting skewered with Arod is because of two reasons.Guilty by association,and all year Boras was quoted as saying he’d advise Arod to opt out! Oh yeah, Three more reasons ,Boras ,is slime, bad for baseball and greedy,like some of the players he represents.

    I personally hope the Yankees teach Boras and any player he represents a lesson,suspend dealings with him for a few years.Will he (Boras) go out of business,no but he won’t garner those huge contracts without the Yankees in the bidding. It looks like the jr Steinbrenners are up to the task of taking on Boras.Boras needs to be put in his place!

    Don’t think for one moment he didn’t already, have a deal lined up for Arod. That’s why Arod was so focused this Yr,so Boras would have some bargaining chips to showcase to his new team.After what Arod endured last season,being booed
    you know he told “Boras get me out of here.”That’s when the plan was hatched,for this year’s Greatness to come back with a new attitude and focus.Bunk!!!!

  9. yankee21 November 4th, 2007 at 8:54 am

    Peter; interesting take.

    I don’t think a lot of the fans’ tirades have been directed at Boras himself, it’s more about seeing Arod and Boras as one and the same, guys who put pre-eminence on the green.

    Either Arod is not as bright as Murphy gives him credit for and is stunned by the fans’ and media’s reactions or Arod made a calculated business decision and all this criticism was anticipated. I believe the latter scenario. Alex Inc objectives are to become the premium baseball icon by far. The fans, a ring and player respect are clearly secondary business objectives- Arod’s actions over the years say so.

    He has taken quite a few hits this week in the media and he appears to be reeling, right? Or is he? Somehow, although maybe not played out exactly as they designed, I believe Arod and Boras have a plan, and a deal or two, at least in some sort of framework, so he’ll rebound, and meet his primary objective, somewhere. Arod will be ok.

    And more importantly, so will the Yankees.

  10. catya November 4th, 2007 at 9:00 am

    Yankee21, you hit the nail on the head. Since when in Yankees history have they ever allowed one player to dictate as to whether the team will be ok or not.Arod couldn’t get it done in the Bronx,He QUIT!!!

  11. catya November 4th, 2007 at 9:02 am

    Hey Arod,Quitters never win,and winners never Quit!

  12. Harley Peyton November 4th, 2007 at 9:10 am

    Ahh, why not blame both of them? Or better still? Why not forget about it and move on?

  13. Terry in N.H. November 4th, 2007 at 9:11 am

    You people don’t think for a second that if Arod came back to the Yankees for a discount and essentially got the Yanks 30 million back from Texas they wouldn’t embraced him? Do we really want the best hitter in the game who finally got comfortable in NY gone when we finally have a pitching staff being molded into something special? With Joba, Phil and Ian to add to Wang,Pettitte,Mussina to the rotation this team could be even better next year. Let’s not kid ourselves here, Without Arod, there is a hugh hole from the right side. Arod makes this lineup go. If he comes back and talks to the Yanks and pleads his love for NY. They shouldn’t turn their back on him.

  14. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 9:12 am

    It’s tempting to suppose there was some “tampering” going on, both here and with JD Drew. But if you examine the facts it’s pretty unlikely. Other than hard feelings, there is usually no evidence of tampering and thus tampering charges are never made. But tampering in a case involving the kind of deal A-Rod and Drew were seeking would mean some especially detailed negotiations were had on some pretty complex issues. And that tends to leaves a huge paper trail that is hard to completely cover up.

    1. I’m assuming that by tampering we mean that Boras solicited or received an offer from another team before A-Rod opted out. I’m not talking about a general or well known interest in A-Rod by certain other teams that fit the economic profile, which we can pretty much presumed without a word being said.

    2. Because of the fear of tampering charges, no pre-opt out deal would be evidenced by any documents, including e-mails. Why would any team generate and keep proof of their own misconduct, shooting copies of proposed deals with details and numbers back and forth with Boras? Without that detail, how do you lock down an offer sufficiently well to tell your client it’s a done deal?

    3. Without a “lock” on all the details, A-Rod is not going to crap on the Yankees’ offer in favor of some specific other offer because he doesn’t know if the other offer is indeed better. Deals like this have to be analyzed down to the last detail.

    4. If it’s in writing and it was negotiated before the op-out, the team could always walk away from the offer because the deal would be unenforceable since it was made and negotiated in violation of the tampering rules.

    5. Forget tampering. Unless it’s in writing, any team can walk away from any deal. (What deal was that, Scott? Do you have it in writing anywhere?)

  15. Dave November 4th, 2007 at 9:24 am

    I cant believe ppl are blaming boras. Arod is the fraud. He is the one who left the yanks without even discussing a contract a week after he tells everyone how he cant imagine playing anywhere else. Blame him for everything. No one had any problem doing that when he was on the yanks as fans blamed him for pooor pitching and everything else under the sun.

    I cant seem the cubs and angels giving arod 350 million. Th yanks and sox are playing the only teams that can afford a contract like that. The cubs spent 300 million in the off season last yr. The angels may be in third after the sox and yanks right now but i dont think they could afford 350 and if they give him that, they are not paying anyone else anything. No way the dodgers can afford that.

  16. catya November 4th, 2007 at 9:28 am

    Annie Savoy,if you read some of the previous threads from
    oct and some earlier,I was attacked too,for speaking ill about Arod. I personally had numerous “Stat heads” that only looked at his in season play stats,and looked the other way,when he was in postseason. That’s how you get fooled by Arod.He puts up big numbers in the season,goes on vacation in postseason,and let’s the “stat heads” argue how “GREAT” he is.On this blog you, me ,and anyone else better be able to stand the heat,when your thought is different from those who see it another way.I’m just glad a majority see Arod for what he really is,Greedy!!!! That’s his best Stat.

  17. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 9:38 am

    PT Barnum, one of the greatest students of human behavior other than Freud, observed: “You’ll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.”

    Doesn’t A-Rod’s success depend entirely on his bet that to a greater or lesser degree we will all forget about this and move on to some other controversy? Hasn’t it worked fairly well so far, except maybe in Seattle, Texas, Boston and NY? There are roughly 26 other teams and cities left, and one of them will blissfully slide under the wave of denial that will take them far far out to sea with Captain A-Rod and his first officer Boras.

    Let’s be clear: A-Rod’s greatest offense is not greed; it’s his exercise of an extraordinarily acute cynicism.

  18. LathamJoe November 4th, 2007 at 9:42 am

    You can bet that Boras has conducted “conversations” with one or two teams who have indicated a market value close to what he is seeking for his client. Obviously, no organization will provide a written offer before the free agent’s deadline and risk tampering charges, but let’s be real, Boras is shrewd and has dealt with Front Office officals before. Just as politicians make their “backroom deals”, Boras has some reasonable verbal assurance of his client’s worth.

  19. Chofo November 4th, 2007 at 9:47 am

    Remember Beltran?
    he wanted to be a Yankee so Boras called to check if they wanted him with a pay cut.

  20. J-Dawg November 4th, 2007 at 9:47 am

    Good points Pete. Boras is the one who gives A-Rod the directions, but A-Rod is the one who is driving the car. Boras tells Rodriguez every road to take. A-Rod is free to make a detour and drive down his own path, but he chooses not to do so.

  21. Senor A. Boy November 4th, 2007 at 9:48 am

    Pete Abe does it again. The definitive Yankee writer makes the definitive A-rod statement. Love this guy.

  22. catya November 4th, 2007 at 9:49 am

    Peter Arod is like that media hungry chick Brittany that lives through the press, So we wait now for that shot of Arod getting out of the car,to see if it’s boxer’s or briefs,or preytell the full monty!!! You know he need’s to be adored ,and all.yuk

  23. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 9:52 am

    Here’s my stance on A-Rod. As long as he was a Yankee, I was rooting for him. I rooted for him a little harder when he was first signed cause it pissed off the folks in Boston a little bit, so that was a little bit more fun. When people in NY started booing him, I became a huge A-Rod fan, because I hate when people boo players on their own team. I even hate it when people at the Stadium boo Farnsworth, as much as he deserves it.

    So although I was a big A-Rod fan and what some on this board would call an “A-Rod apologist” because they can be somewhat ornery at times, it’s because I defend any Yankee in need of defense, because they’re Yankees. But at this moment, A-Rod is not a Yankee.

    If he comes back with a paycut, then I’ll accept him. If he comes back without a paycut, I’m not sure how I’ll feel, and I’m not sure how I’ll feel about Cashman, but I know I’ll have to accept him, and I *will not* boo him. It’s just not in my nature. But I’m thinking that all these articles saying he could come back are all just because there’s not much Yankee news going on so they need something to write about.

  24. Dave November 4th, 2007 at 9:55 am

    Lathamjoe, I think boras has an offer that is over 250 million but I dont think that its 350 million. You say market value is on the table but what exactly is the market value for him right now. Nobody really knows. 350 mill is what boras wants on the table – i dont think that deal is on the table currently. Boras makes up numbers to try to get ppl to bid higher.

  25. J-Dawg November 4th, 2007 at 9:55 am

    I’m curious to see who the Yankees will use as a replacement at third base. They can either trade for someone, sign Mike Lowell, or stick with Wilson Betemit. There is no absolutely perfect solution out there. Lowell is a terrific player and so are some of the other trade options, but if we look hard enough, we are going to find good and bad parts about any solution. I’m not necessarily worried about which player has the best stats. As a fan I want a player who is committed to the Yankees, plays hard giving it his all, is team first instead of me first, and who is also a good fit in the clubhouse. I want a third baseman who isn’t wrapped up in asking for a $350 million contract.

  26. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 9:56 am

    LathamJoe:

    I feel your pain but Boras doesn’t need conversations with front offices to know what A-Rod would be likely to fetch on the “open market.”

    Nobody works harder than Scott Boras. He has collected a server farm full of data back at Boras, Inc. Scott knows better than Hank and Hal what their gate receipts are, how much they spend on their minor league system and the cost of fuel for the chartered flight they take. The cost of parking, rent, tax breaks from municipalities are all factored in.

    Data do not lie or posture or cry poverty so there is more truth and accuracy in what Scotty gets from the computers than what he would get from a GM. Using mountains of data also keeps Scotty out of dangerous areas regarding tampering.

    Believe me, Boras has enough information to predict with a high degree of certainty who can afford what and who is likely to do what. That more than provides a starting point and allows Scotty to target possible suckers with a great deal of confidence int the numbers he throws out there.

  27. Tim November 4th, 2007 at 9:57 am

    Hey Peter

    You lambasted Boras left and right as much as all the other media guys with the “he announced A-Rod was opting out during the last game of the World Series” reporting, so get off your high horse. Did you know Boras publicly blamed Mariano Rivera for the reason why A-Rod couldn’t hit a lick after Mariano blew the save in Game 4 of the 2004 A.L.C.S? ‘Guess not. Try reading articles beyond your own sometime. That act by Boras which he committed independent of A-Rod alone deserves the ire of Yankee fans. You’re not a Yankee fan (nor do you have to be), so you wouldn’t understand.

    Boras is as greedy as A-Rod cuz newsflash: The more A-Rod makes, the bigger Boras’ 10% (or whatever % he collects) is. If he’s not out for #1, he’s out for A-Rod then himself. I don’t care what the relationship is between A-Rod and Boras. I along with legions of Yankee fans were infuriated that Boras, a grown man himself, announced his client A-Rod was opting out of a contract with the Yankees during the final game of the World Series the Yanks’ archrival was about to win. As if knowing the Red Sox were gonna win again and this overpaid primadonna choked in the postseason again wasn’t a bitter pill to swallow enough for Yankee fans. We were further incensed by this classless idiot stooping to new lows by being the first player’s agent to publicly blame his client’s ex-teammate for why his client choked. An ex-teammate A-Rod couldn’t shine the shoes of even if he hits another 300-400 HRs.

    Boras is doing what’s best for his client, right, whatever, because it’s SOOOOO difficult for A-Rod to live on $92M the next three years. I mean $252M for 2001-11 just isn’t enough to live on! Why didn’t they ask Texas for a contract through 2018 if he was so good? And what’s A-Rod afraid of -he won’t be worth what he wants after 2010? Oh so he wants $350M and opt out clauses, but can the Yankees/ whoever opt out of keeping him, or is it a one-way street with A-Rod? A-Rod is no different than Latrell Sprewell saying how he has to put food on the table for his family, he just doesn’t come out and say it like Latrell did. Latrell was an a ss for saying it, but at least he not only had the guts to say it, he actually meant it lol and never apologized so for that he gets my respect. And that’s why Latrell wasn’t castigated like A-Rod and Boras should be. Latrell honestly meant what he said whereas A-Rod and Boras are phonies of the highest order. Sure A-Rod didn’t choke out his manager like Latrell choked out his coach, but the N.B.A. did allow Latrell to return -he did the time for the crime (one year banishment, his remaining contract voided, mandatory embarrassing anger management classes).

    I don’t wanna hear “It’s just baseball folks” oh no it isn’t. Baseball is life’s reflection. We, the fans, are the reason A-Rod exists as who he is. He is the epitome of eternal greed which is the ruin of this country, and I am very proud that my fellow Yankee fans see through him and Boras (who are joined at the hip) and want the heads of
    A-Rod and Boras on a platter. Are we killing the messenger with the anti-Boras comments? No, cuz Boras is just like A-Rod, just the agent version of yet another greedy athlete who wants to flee his team for more $$$. B.t.w. where has Boras ever talked about how A-Rod will statistically lead his team to a World Series championship for all his garabge about stats? All I hear about is how much A-Rod is worth to the YES Network and A-Rod is this and that. How does he help Jeter defensively? As if YES was a pile of crap before A-Rod came along.

  28. pat November 4th, 2007 at 9:59 am

    Pete
    You are absolutely right. The agent works for the player. Any player who hires Boras knows what they are in for but I do believe this agent/player relationship goes beyond a conventional business one.

    “But these are adults.”
    MANY successful 32 year olds carry emotional baggage that shape the men they are, not just A-Rod. I don’t feel sorry for A-Rod because of it but to discount that it doesn’t impact his judgement is naive. For every Derek Jeter and Joba Chamberlain story the media gives us about how well they were raised and are the men they are today because of it, there is also a story of a Gary Sheffield or a Doc Gooden who carry traits from that upbringing that work against them. The buttons installed in childhood can get pushed by the wrong people if they weren’t wired correctly to start.

    “In the two seasons I have been around the Yankees, only one player has talked about his salary time after time… responsibility of being the highest paid player.”

    In the 2 years you have been around the Yankees how many players have been asked about their salary time after time? How many players in the room were defined by their salary? How many players were held accountable for each at bat in relationship to their salary? A-Rod took the check and answers hundreds of questions about it. Have you or any reporter asked any other player to justify the money being paid to them? Pick one this spring and give it a try. Some of the answers might not be so pretty or smooth.

    Unlike many here, I’m not angry at A-Rod or Boras or the Yankees. It is what it is, a business. Watching the difference in reaction of Cashman and Hank to the A-Rod opt out was very telling to me. 2 men got the same news and reacted to it quite differently. Probably in the same way that 2 men might react differently to being the highest paid player in the game. Neither was right or wrong. It just is what it is.

  29. Pinstripeglory November 4th, 2007 at 10:06 am

    This was a good blog post, I agree ultimately Alex’s career is in the Alex’s hands. If he truly wanted to, Alex could have instructed Scott Boras to make a deal with any team he wanted for a reasonable dollar amount. I really think Alex wanted out of NY and the intense pressure of playing in pinstripes – so Boras tried to get him out of that situation. Well Scott Boras fumbled on getting him out smoothly. LOL I do think this does present an opportunity for the Yankees to intelligently reallocate those assests elsewhere, and Cashman seems to be inclined to do so. In my opinion I think hiring Joe Girarid over Don Mattingly shows that the Yankees brass is willing to make decisions in the best interests of baseball operations and not the p.r. operations. There is a lot of work to be done between now and spring training, but this is an exciting time since we seem to be on the cusp of building something new beginning with the young pitching that seems to be coming along.

  30. Joe from Long Island November 4th, 2007 at 10:06 am

    Peter’s essay on ARod and Boras is right on.

    I saw the Centerstage interview with Scott Boras about a year ago. It clearly comes out that he sees his job as getting the best contract for his clients. That usually translates into $$$. Occasionally, someone will, like Ron Villone or Carlos Beltran or Bernie Williams, instruct him to go in a different direction, for family reasons or whatever. He then complies.

    ARod is the one driving the bus here. He was the one speaking all that malarkey about wanting to stay in NY. Maybe his wife was making a secretive editorial comment with that famous T-shirt. The only thing ARod is sorry about is the negative publicity he’s getting now. But he won’t cut his price for it. THAT you can take to the bank.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Many of us were fooled that he really wanted to stay in NY for the Yankees. Not again. Like the man said, it’s all about the money. Unfortunatley, we keep having to learn that.

    P.S. – I’m rooting for Jeff Karstens.

  31. Rockin' Rich November 4th, 2007 at 10:07 am

    “In the two seasons I have been around the Yankees, only one player has talked about his salary time after time after time. About how being the highest paid player in “pretty cool”, about the pressure of being the highest paid player and about the responsibility of being the highest paid player.”

    Wow. Talk about a money quote…

  32. frankd November 4th, 2007 at 10:13 am

    Pete,

    You let Borat off too easy. Sure arod is the one in control but is he really responsible. Borat lays out the scheme and gets him pumped up. How does he back away after all “I’m doing it all for you”. Isn’t this why in real life we have laws to protect kids from adults.

  33. Ranting Guy November 4th, 2007 at 10:18 am

    After opting out, 11 years of A-Rod’s ‘services’ would have cost the Yanks twice as much as they were paying after Texas $$. How could he as that and walk away unless he already knew he could get it elsewhere?

    Right now, if he were to come back a the same salary he had before, it would still cost the Yanks 40-50% more for the next three years.

    Even if the Yanks stance were to be ‘We’ll only talk if you subtract the lost Texas money from the offer we would have given you’ (which he/Boras would never do) there could still be too much resentment he’d need to overcome.

    If NY signs Lowell to take his place, I wonder if that would pave the way for A-Rod to go to Boston. They’re out from under Manny’s ridiculous contract in a year so they might go for his 11yrs/$350M. He’d have to deal with a little resentment from the fans and in the clubhouse (a little?) but a few HRs into his career there they’d get over it. Considering the $$$ involved for both sides, and the entertainment value of watching Sox Nation have to embrace their favorite whipping boy, I’d take that switch.

    If Boston re-signs Lowell, they could still be an option for him if he were to go back to SS.

    Pete – What have you heard first hand on A-Rod’s preference of dealing with the atmosphere there versus going to LAD, LAA, DET or the Cubbies? Do you have a sense of which of those 5 teams would be most inclined to really cough up that $32M for anywhere from 8-11 years? How about Florida or someone else like Atlanta? With the exception of Manny’s salary, that’s got to be twice as much $$$ as any of those teams already pay any single player.

  34. Jimbo November 4th, 2007 at 10:19 am

    The blame is on both sides. Boras and A-Rod both screwed this up. It just seems I never hear from Boras how Alex will help a team win a championship, just how he will fatten the coffers.

    On other news, Damon for Crede is in the papers today.

  35. catya November 4th, 2007 at 10:20 am

    frankd yes yes yes, If you go back to when Boras got that contract with texas arod was quoted as saying it was an insane amount of money to play baseball,now a few yrs later,arod wants more. I guess he got over the shock.

  36. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 10:20 am

    I thought Detroit already signed a third baseman?

  37. catya November 4th, 2007 at 10:28 am

    What an opportunity for the new 3rd baseman coming into the bronx. All he needs to do is be good at 3rd,hit well,and contribute in postseason,and we’ll forget about PAY-Rod.

  38. Ranting Guy November 4th, 2007 at 10:31 am

    It would be interesting to see if A-Rod goes to Florida, would he be the first player to make as much as the rest of the team combined? And, would he be the first player whose salary was enough to bankrupt his team?

    Joe Crede is a career .260 hitter. Please, not him.

  39. Doreen November 4th, 2007 at 10:32 am

    Pat -

    Spot on!

    ARod talks about the salary because ARod is asked about the salary. Period. I guess he could try to steer the conversation elsewhere, but I would guess that wouldn’t work – the media can be fairly persistent. LOL.

    My initial reaction to ARod opting out was extreme disappointment. I really believed he was more than interested in staying in New York, and I truly believe that NY was going to be the team that could pay him enough to satisfy him. But the passage of time allows reflection and upon reflection, I have adusted to the idea that ARod is no longer a Yankees. I hope Cashman and Co. stick to their guns, but I also realize business is business and if it works to both their advantages, it would not surprise me at all if ARod was a Yankee in March. Things being what they are, the appropriate spin will be put on the situation, and everything will return to almost normal.

    Also, I do not delude myself into thinking that Alex Rodriguez will remain a villain for very long. Whatever team he ends up with, and he will end up with someone, he will be hitting homeruns, driving in runs and scoring runs and the crowds will cheer him as long as he does so. If he strikes out and hits into DPs in big situations he will be boo-ed like no one else, either. In other words, life for Alex Rodriguez will pretty much be the same as it’s always been.

    Hurray and Good luck to Jeff Karstens!

  40. irishcarbomb November 4th, 2007 at 10:33 am

    way to post personal info about villone

    i hope brady tears his acl today

  41. BBFan November 4th, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Good debate so far on this thread!

    1. Peter is obviously skewing the facts, which I can understand. If you fully pay attention to his writings, he is neutral in his articles for Journal. That is because the bosses at Journal would not put up with any thing less. However, on this blog, he goes the extreme to start a good debate and I like it. However, he skews the facts all the time when he does not like a particular player. Every one who is regular visitor to this blog knows that there are many more comments bashing A-Rod than Boras. So much for it.

    2. I have not commented much about A-Rod opting out other than saying Yanks will be alright without A-Rod. All they have to do is compensate for his lost production with upgrade at 1B and a decent 3B.

    3. I do not care if A-Rod comes back or not. But if the three articles in NY times are any inidication, I would not rule out if A-Rod is the 2008 3B.

    4. Right now the battle lines are drawn and they have to find a compromise so that neither loses face. There is a 50% chance this is what is going to happen.

    5. Once Mo and Po are signed and Andy comes back, which will not happen before Wednesday (the original opt-out dedline), A-Rod/Boras could say that thier concerns are addressed and wants to come back and negotiate in good faith. He would also volunteer to compensate (discount) for the Texas money lost (Note that he will make much more than that discount in ads if he plays in NY). Yanks can tell them that any discussion will be in face to face meeting and there has to be deal by the end of that meeting and it can not be leveraged in discussions with other clubs. If not, Yanks will announce to the world what happened stating that based on what A-Rod said they met him but could not reach a deal within the same parameters of what they wanted to offer before opt-out. They will state very clearly that was the last discussion between A-Rod and Yankees.

    6. What will happen? It is any body’s guess. Obvioulsy, Boras miscalculated Yankees threat and A-Rod trusted Boras advice to opt-out thinking that the Yanks were bluffing. Then all this negative reaction to the timing of the opt-out took a major hit to image conscious A-Rod. One way to repair all this is to give the discount and come back to Yankees and spin it any way they want. Because of the discount both parties will save face. Also, A-Rod once proved that he will entertain giving discount (Boston trade negotiations)

    7. If A-Rod does come back, all he has to do is produce to win the fans back. If he does not, the result would be same whether he opted out or not.

  42. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    The difference between Jeter and Chamberlain versus Gooden and Sheffield is that the first two appear to have overcome their issues in positive ways while the second two have not. The point is not that some people have issues, but rather how they deal with them. Willingness to throw off your crutches and be judged as an “adult” is the first sign that someone has overcome the issue. Evaluating someone by a common, reasonable standard like “adult” is quite fair.

    Gooden and Sheffield came from a bad environment, drugs, violence god knows what all else. Sports were an escape. A-Rod? OK, A-Rod is emotionally stunted by his father leaving him and his family. But what was so really “bad” about his childhood. Did he get involved in drugs, or thuggery? Carry a gun? Face down a gun? Get robbed or do some robberies? BY all accounts, A-Rod got to play baseball, basketball and football all day long as a kid. He made his teams as the captain and star, and he got rich at 17 (17!)

    Being “fatherless” impacted his judgment? Maybe. Is there a direct correlation – - that is, an inevitable cause and effect – - between being fatherless and being a wealthy, selfish, narcissistic cynic? No. None whatsoever. Those were A-Rod’s chosen responses to whatever his problems were. Sheffield installed a permanent chip on his shoulder and Gooden can’t stay clean and sober. Joe Torre’s father abused his family and Joe’s had his problems but never blamed his father for any of his failures. Now he gives time and money to fight domestic violence.

    We all have issues. But we all need to find positive solutions for those issues.

  43. yankee21 November 4th, 2007 at 10:47 am

    murphy,

    well said.

  44. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 10:48 am

    So I’m going to go out on a limb here:

    The reason people get mad at Boras has less to do with what Boras actually does or doesn’t do (which seems to just be his job), but because of what Boras represents.

    Boras does represent some of the highest paid players and the obscene contracts many of them have.

    Now, I can’t speak for any other baseball fan but myself, but I know that I am repulsed by hearing about $350 million contracts and the insatiable greed they seem to imply.

    Yep, this entire thing is probably Alex’s fault, but there’s so much too this–how fans, last year, finally did start cheering for A-Rod, etc-that we don’t want to blame A-Rod because it might hurt to much.

    But I do hold firm in one thing: The only way A-Rod gets a pass in my book is if he cuts the Yanks a check for $31 million and voluntarily takes a paycut of about $100 million.

    Guess I’m hard to please.

  45. BBFan November 4th, 2007 at 10:49 am

    Hi Peter,

    A suggestion for the improvement of this blog.

    Is it possible to have a sequence number listed in front of each comment?

    This would help us to start where we left off during the previous visit. Right now it is an adventure locating the last blog entry we read during last visit, especially when there are number of entries.

    Thanks.

  46. Drew November 4th, 2007 at 10:49 am

    Boras also can’t make the money off of a Ron Villone that he can on A-Rod.

  47. Brendon November 4th, 2007 at 10:52 am

    I really don’t care about A-Rod anymore. He opted out. Its over. Its done. No more talk about arod lets talk about something else.

  48. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 10:53 am

    For everyone saying that the Yankees should stop dealing with all Boras clients to spite him from now on, think about how many clients Boras has:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Boras_Clients

    Oh, and Joe Crede is on that list. And so is Damon, so I guess he’d be out. and Andrew Brackman, so he’s out of the organization, as well as Ian Kennedy.

  49. kissbeavis November 4th, 2007 at 10:57 am

    Hey Pete …

    Not that this is a likely scenario or anything, but isn’t there the chance — if the offers being made by the rest of the league aren’t quite what Bor-Rod had in mind (provided he didn’t get one lined up before he opted out) — that A-Rod could force his way back onto the Yankees by accepting their arbitration offer?

    The Yankees will offer arbitration, I assume, so they can get the draft picks when he signs somewhere else.

    But, if he really wants to come back so badly (and I’m assuming he doesn’t), he could accept arbitration and the Yankees would be forced to pay him whatever the arbiter decides ($27 million?) and the Yankees will effectively be forced to pay it with no subsidy from Texas.

    Again, I can’t imagine why he would do this, espcially b/c he would be without a long-term contract, and would be putting a lot of future $$ at risk if he got seriously injured.

    But it is his right to do so, if he wanted to.

  50. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 11:04 am

    Well in response to directing my anger towards A-Fraud and not towards BoRASS…..I havent changed my stance…and Ill stand behind my comments and not change.
    Yes we can all agree that BoRASS works for A-Fraud,so he does what he is told to….but he does give advise to his players,did say that A-Fraud should opt out,and makes that announcement during the WS!!

  51. DMan November 4th, 2007 at 11:10 am

    Ya it is true.. Boras doesn’t have some sort of mind control over all his clients. I’m sure he does push them a bit, looking for the big contract and such..

    And I’d bet he pushes Arod more than anyone.. But, still, the player makes the choice.

    It’s the players hand that needs to sign a contract.

  52. catya November 4th, 2007 at 11:10 am

    All this Arod talk ,yada yada yada,He’s gone, next! There is life for the Yankees beyond Arod.Arod didn’t add any more value to the Yankees.He came to the Yankees to get in on the momentum of WS wins,and didn’t contribute.Who will Cashman get for third,it’s the question to answer,now?

  53. whoa November 4th, 2007 at 11:10 am

    Yes Peter, you made an obvious point. Indeed this is how the agency relationship works, the principal directs the agent.

    I would, however, like to see a study of the degree to which Boras is in fact able to procure bigger contracts than other agents, if at all.

    That said, I do think Boras exerts more pressure on a signature client to test and set the market than say a journeyman player like Ron Villone, but that doesn’t change the fact that Ale Rodriguez bears the ultimate responsibility for how this process has unfolded.

    But this post is quite telling:

    # Mr. Faded Glory November 4th, 2007 at 7:50 am

    Pete, when do we get to start “blaming Joe Torre” for also choosing not to be a Yankee instead of throwing the organization under the bus?

  54. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 11:10 am

    Than Alex should stop wondering why everyone hates him. He shouldn’t wonder why the fans in Seattle threw money at him, or why everytime he sets foot on the field they boo him, likewise in Texas.

  55. longtime November 4th, 2007 at 11:16 am

    Scott Brosius lifetime BA .257 avg fielder at best yet we won with him .245 BA in post season. We will win with Joe Crede more power, better fielder has already one ring. all we need is pitching, IPK Joba Hughes Pettite will do the trick

  56. whoa November 4th, 2007 at 11:16 am

    Annie Savoy November 4th, 2007 at 8:37 am

    Earlier this season, when I made some ARod remarks, I was chastised because I dissed the ‘Best Player in Baseball’. What I want to know is, why did it take so long for all of you figure Alex out? This all started years ago in Seattle.

    He’s just another spoiled brat and it’s interesting that two other spoiled brats (Hal and Hank) have spoiled Alex’s party.

    Will any team take him now??????????
    ___

    You were and are dissed because your posts are made with such a bizarre venom towards someone (A-ROd) that I would imagine has never done anything to you personally, that it’s obvious that your posts reveal more about you than they do about A-Rod.

    Now you have expanded this inexplicable and inappropriae anger to include Hank and Hal Steinbrenner, who have shown laudable character by seeking to protect their father at a time in his life when he may be unable to protect himself.

    But in the strange world that you inhabit they are “spoiled brats.”

    You are a deeply disturbed individual.

  57. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 11:17 am

    How can you not be excited about Joe Girardi after reading this morning’s Q & A in the NY Post? The references to Lou Gehrig, I can’t wait for the start of the 2008 season.

    Q: What won’t you tolerate?
    A: Lack of effort; lack of preparation.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/11.....618820.htm

  58. BBFan November 4th, 2007 at 11:17 am

    Irrespective of what, A-Rod will not accept arbitration.
    If he accepts arbitration, he will lose his no trade clause (he is not 10-5 with Yanks yet) and Yanks can trade him to any team during the season.

  59. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Okay, reading that Girardi article may have been enough to put me in a good mood for the rest of the day.

    Favorite actor? Joe Pesci.

    Thing you want someone to say about you? That he cared.

    Favorite player? Lou Gehrig.

    Guys, we’re in for something great.

  60. catya November 4th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    longtime ,thank you .The yankees world will never revolve around Arod,we root for the team,Not a self centered prissy boy, that need attention and his ego polished,and to be validated constanly, by money!

  61. whoa November 4th, 2007 at 11:24 am

    “Scott Brosius lifetime BA .257 avg fielder at best yet we won with him .245 BA in post season. We will win with Joe Crede more power, better fielder has already one ring. all we need is pitching, IPK Joba Hughes Pettite will do the trick”

    Of course, when Brosisus played, Mariano was at his peak and the bridge to Mariano was Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza, and the rules that MLB has enacted to promote parity were not in effect. That is why “we won” with Brosius and not A-Rod.

  62. pat November 4th, 2007 at 11:25 am

    Murphydog
    The fact of the matter is your childhood experiences have an impact on the adult you become. With time and learning, some people overcome it more than others.

    Jeter tells the story of his childhood as summers in NJ with extended family, his Mom pitching to him in the backyard and both his parents attending his games. Joba talks about playing catch with his dad even though he had a disability and his Dad being his best friend. A-Rod talks about hanging out at the Boys and Girls Club because his Mom worked 2 jobs and counting her tip money when she got home. 2 of those were stories about relationships, the other was a story about hard work and money. I do see a correlation there in the men they have become.

    Joe Torre has said that his situation growing up impacted his life. He said it took him 2 failed marriages, 40 years and the urging of his current wife to get him to address the impact his childhood had on the man he was and the father he wanted to be. He credits his brothers for being a positive guiding force. He also says that the paths his two sisters took in their adult lives, one became a nun and the other never married, had a lot to do with their childhood experience.

    Everyone does have issues. All people react to them differently and address them in the best way they know how. I don’t have sympathy for A-Rod because of his life experiences but I do have empathy.

  63. LathamJoe November 4th, 2007 at 11:28 am

    Dave:
    I agree, I don’t believe $350 Mil is a realistic figure, more of a lofty starting point for negotiations that Boras typically uses to inflate his client’s worth.

    murphydog:
    You raise logical points, but I still have a difficult time believing that Boras, a power broker who regulary speaks with Front Office executives routinely, has done more than just market research – at least in the high stakes situation with ARod.

    There is an excellent article on Boras titled “The Extortionist” by Ben McGrath appearing in the 10/29/07 edition of The New Yorker. Its quite comprehensive coverage and interesting reading. Here’s an excerpt from the article:

    “The conventional wisdom in baseball circles, as the regular season neared its end, had been that Boras would dangle the threat of free agency to force the Yankees into a long-term contract extension for Rodriguez. Tom Hicks, the Texas owner, is still on the hook for about a quarter of the eighty-one million dollars the Yankees owe Rodriguez over the next three years, which means that he effectively costs them no more than Derek Jeter. (Few people recognize Boras’s responsibility, incidentally, for goading Rodriguez into making the taunting remarks in an old Esquire interview—“You don’t say, ‘Don’t let Derek beat you.’ He’s never your concern”—that set his Yankee tenure on an uneasy path from the start.) Brian Cashman, the Yankees’ general manger, said that he would not participate in an open bidding session should Rodriguez opt out, thereby annulling the Texas subsidy, and Boras is technically—“academically” and “theoretically” are the words he likes to use—forbidden to have discussions with other teams in the meantime, under the rules governing tampering.

    But Boras is by nature a divorce lawyer, not a family mediator, which is why the Cubs rumor, as reported last month by New York, seemed so ingenious: Boras was supposedly in talks about a deal—a technically prohibited deal, as it turns out—that would have given Rodriguez a deferred ownership stake in the team, with civilians who also happened to be prospective owners of the Cubs, who are for sale.”

  64. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 11:30 am

    F No-Rod, I’m sick of reading talking about him.

  65. RSM November 4th, 2007 at 11:36 am

    “Joe Crede is a career .260 hitter. Please, not him.”

    Ranting Guy,
    So was Scott Brosius, and how’d that turn out? Crede is exactly what this team needs rather than another “allstar”. He plays great defense and makes good contact at the plate. Most importantly, he plays hard. Guys like Crede, and Rowand for that matter, are exactly the kind of players that made the late 90′s teams so great. Crede and Rowand’s personalities and style of play remind me of Brosius and O’Neill.

    We are not going to replace Alex’s offense, and that’s going to hurt in the short term. However, in the long run we are better off without him and his circus. Face it people, 2008 is a transition year. But, how many teams have a chance to win 90 games in a transition year? If Cashman continues to follow his current course, 2009 could be terrific.

  66. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 11:37 am

    Girardi’s favorite meal is Risotto!

  67. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 11:38 am

    ThatWasMe I love Joe more now than before!! Thanks for posting that!

  68. We love A-Rod November 4th, 2007 at 11:38 am

    Please come back Alex. This team needs you; this blog needs you!

  69. jonnycat November 4th, 2007 at 11:39 am

    BBFan

    as a workaround, what i usually do is look at the times people post comments and pick up from the last time i logged on, seems to be a decent method to get back to where i last was.

    on another note, i think that list of boras client’s is very interesting. also interesting that at least 10 players stopped using his services… (fired him)

  70. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    That Girardi Q& A is great stuff. Calling his daughter his little peanut, overcoming the loss of his mother at 19, dealing with the loss of his dad now, the invocation of the spirit of the humble Lou Gehrig instead of Babe Ruth, his favorite movie being Gladiator (mine is a tie between To Kill A Mockingbird and Gladiator), even wanting to have dinner with Jesus. This is the guy you want with you in the foxhole.

    I think Girardi would have gotten along well with A-Rod because of Rod’s work ethic. Joe G would have respected A-Rod between the white lines. I just hope Joe G can survive the media’s take on wanting to have dinner with Jesus. It goes with everything else he says about himself and it’s wonderfully refreshing to hear, but people always take it the wrong way.

    That Girardi is openly a man of faith is probably the source of the rumor about Girardi and Jeter not getting along. Chad Curtis, a born again Christian with the team back in the late 90′s, apparently made no secret of the fact that he didn’t approve of Jeter’s lifestyle. That and Curtis’ criticism of Jeter over the famous 1999 Seattle-Yankee fight where Seattle’s A-Rod and NY’s Jeter were talking instead of brawling, allegedly led to his ouster from the team. (His performance on the field was a little less than overwhelming also).

  71. whoa November 4th, 2007 at 11:50 am

    “So was Scott Brosius, and how’d that turn out?”

    Well, but not because of Scott Brosius.

  72. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 11:53 am

    I found it interesting that Bonds is a “former client.”

  73. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Boras SHARES the blame.

    Nobody forced Boras to go on ESPN and stick a SHIV in Rivera’ back.

  74. Trish November 4th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    For the Yankees to thrive with a Scott Brosius type at 3B, they would also need a Tino Martinez type at 1st, a Paul O’Neill type in RF, a Bernie Williams type in CF and a few pitchers of the David Cone, Rogers Clemens, Andy Pettitte, David Wells, etc…. types pitching circa the 1990′s. If they do then, then a Scott Brosius type will be fine at 3B. If they don’t a Scott Borsius type isn’t going to cut it.

  75. YankeesLuv November 4th, 2007 at 11:56 am

    Geez Pete, let it go, you don’t like Arod, just let it go. lol. I’m only kidding aroudn but you may have issues. ;)
    I do agree with some who say the way Arod grew up has something to do with the relationship with Boras. Not growing up with a father,not being able to trust, seeing his mother struggle financially, maybe Boras takes advantage of that. Arod has known him since he was a teenager and everytime he’s listened to him it’s worked out for him atleast financially.
    Man you have to admit though Pete Arod sells, if there is even a mention of him there’s 1000 posts lol.

  76. catya November 4th, 2007 at 11:58 am

    Dr Acula, ha ha ha,Touche!! A Shiv,prison talk ,he he he.

  77. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    yeah, Dr. Acula, that’s where my beef with Boras was. And the fact that he doesn’t seem to know when to just shut it. Maybe A-Rod is like “Scotty, damage control! damange control!” but as an agent he’s gotta know when to shut it.

  78. dontfirecash November 4th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    All this talk about how the Yankees need to become more like the late 90′s version is useless IMO. The stars or planets or whatever alligned for the Yanks in the late 90′s. You can’t build a team of “tough, gritty” players and think that they are going to win the WS because of this. As Billy Beane said, :my sh*t doesn’t work in the playoffs” It is all luck, or in the Yankees case bad luck. A bloop single by Gonzalez in ’01, Mo blowing game 4 in 2004, hordes of insects attacking Chamberlain in ’07. God has not been on our side and that isn’t going to change because we have more players like Paul O’niell who will throw a water cooler when they strikeout.

  79. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    I’m sorry, but I’m sick of reading posts about ARod that discount stats. I read a whole bunch of posts above about the “statheads” claiming that ARod is so valuable. OF COURSE HE IS! Come on! Baseball is built on stats, so you have to pay attention to them. If winning was the only important thing, why would we have stats in the first place?

    People claim the Yankees can win without ARod. Yes, this is true. But don’t believe that they’ll score as many runs next year without him. I’m a huge Wang fan, but do you know why he won so many games this year? Run support. The Yankees pitchers have won a ton of games because of that very fact. The team ERA has been nothing special and that hurts in the postseason.

    Stop pretending that ARod got “meaningless” hits in the postseason. That homerun in game 4…yes it didn’t lead to a win. However, if the Yankees ended up tying that game, that HR is HUGE. So, if you want to blame somebody for that, blame Jeter (blasphemy!) for grounding into 3 DPs. In that spot, with the Yankees down a few runs, ARod did the best thing he could do, hit one out.

    Finally, let me quote from RSM above: “Crede is exactly what this team needs rather than another “allstar”. He plays great defense and makes good contact at the plate. Most importantly, he plays hard.” So you’re telling me that ARod doesn’t give great defense and make good contact at the plate? ARod doesn’t play hard? Simply put, replacing anybody for ARod makes the team worse, because he is the best hitter in baseball. Saying that somebody having a world series ring makes him better is not a valid argument. There are a ton of people with rings, none of them better than ARod.

    I am a huge Yankees fan. Personally I don’t care that ARod is leaving, we can win with the young pitching (just like the A’s of early 2000s?) But to claim that ARod is no good, or that replacing him with an average player somehow helps the team is just nonsense.

    End of rant.

  80. BBFan November 4th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    What are the chances of A-Rod firing Boras to save his image? Will it help?

  81. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    pat:

    Empathy: the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

    Empathy is fine with me. Past is prologue. But like most people, I don’t stop at empathy.

    Life keeps giving you feedback. You can absorb it, get it and implement the lesson or invoke denial and become mired in the repetition compulsion. You can get wise to yourself and learn to laugh at yourself or remain painfully needy and wastefully, joylessly driven to fill the void. A-Rod claims to have learned to laugh at himself and find more of the human situation in himself. But his behavior of late belies that.

    Ironically I do empathize with A-Rod. I empathize with him, not for his childhood, but for his inability to be comfortable in his own skin and for pretending not to understand what it is he does that makes people really not like him.

  82. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Colts battle Axis of Evil

    http://tinyurl.com/2mtye5

    Will Brady survive season???

    This week I heard at least a dozen noted sportswriters, including Boston’s own Bob Ryan, raise the specter of head-hunting (see: North Dallas 40). Now, if cool, erudite scribes are openly describing Brady’s demise, think about what must the P.O.ed players must be feel’n.

    Perhaps it’s for the best. Gisele Bündchen will dump him, and he’s wasting his time with her, anyways. Tom, find yourself a nice Yankee Grrl, like Bridget (click on my name) and settle, down.

  83. catya November 4th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Dr Acula what about Brady’s “Baby Momma?” She could use a good man,too.

  84. Don't Be Shocked November 4th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Amen, Peter…..Great Post !

  85. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Latham Joe:

    How about this: It’s Boras Incredible Database (movie title?) that makes those probes into the front offices productive. He knows when they are b.s. ing him. But the devil is still in the details on a deal like the one A-Rod wants. A GM can promise $350 million over ten years, but quoting a gross figure is meaningless unless the player knows how the team plans to get there. The back and forth on the details is what negotiation is all about and makes all the difference to A-Rod. Those kinds of detailed discussions, however, leave the paper trails that prove tampering. That’s why I think especially with A-Rod there is no possibility of a deal being place before he opted out.

    But then again people go to jail all the time for thinking they are smarter than the cops.

  86. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    Catya, – that’s the Babe linked to my name (wink wink), I’m trying to subtly nudge Tom home.

  87. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 12:23 pm

    As for a good man, well, Bridget, if Tom doesn’t come around by X-mas, consider me your present!!

  88. catya November 4th, 2007 at 12:23 pm

    I, personally don’t care what team Arod goes to,Caveat Emptor!!Fasten your seatbelts you are in for a heck of a ride.

  89. catya November 4th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Dr Acula,now now, you bad boy!

  90. On D Ball November 4th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    The thing that amazes me with people like AROD is their desire for more.money. As indicated, clearly he hired Boras and has acted to maximize his income.

    But after you have the “house on the hill” and the private airplane; both of which he can now afford, what does he need with more money.

    Is not self respect and the respect of others important? Why is he sacrificing them for more money?

  91. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 12:28 pm

    Why doesn’t ARod start his own Hedge-fund. He could call it Blackwater.

  92. On D Ball November 4th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    I call Boras and AROD “running eagles” because they are so full of BS that they can’t fly and have to stick to the ground.

  93. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    A-Rod and Boras are like the car accident you can’t look away from. In florid terms, this is a story about a hero with a tragic flaw (narcissism) and a rapacious lawyer who helps the player shake down the moguls for his own obscene enrichment. This is about a player that unflinchingly maintains that he is worth a King’s Ransom but without success in the ultimate arena. This is a story about where to draw the line, how much is too much, where does the Puritan work ethic rub up against the Puritan fear of God and God’s punishment for gluttony? This is about our natural human reaction: How much higher can this phony climb before he takes his fall?

    C’mon… you know why we love to talk about it.

  94. catya November 4th, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    When will we accept the fact that Pay Rod loves four things

    Himself,Money,Boras,Madre.Oh yeah he does have a wife and daughter that fits in the equation some how,way down the list.

  95. catya November 4th, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    Dr Acula, I just clicked on your name,Hubba Hubba!I see what you mean. Brady is stupid,period.

  96. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    I think when people write here that Arod is misled, it’s because with Arod he’s a Yankee, it’s personal and we want to be in denial. With Boras it’s easier to direct the blame becausee Boras is not like family as Arod is.

    When I read comments like “If he fires Boras and comes back then I’ll like him again” or “If he eats the Texas discount to come back then I’ll know it’s not all about the money”…it’s exactly like watching a buddy whose girlfriend is cheating, and hear the friend try to blame the 3rd party and talk about scenarios of how she must have been seduced or if she does this or that I’ll take her back.

    Arod signs Boras’s checks. That’s precisly why Boras took the blame publicly for the WS opt-out timing, b/c Arod is the boss.

  97. jonnycat November 4th, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    talk of arod led me to youtube today, to see when he and veritek got into it, and then other clips of the pedro v. zimmer hiptoss, and when that other idiot slammed posado at the plate this sept, sturtze getting into it, the boone homerun and on and on. seeing arod getting into the thick of it brought out some slight sentimentality for him. Man, i really cannot wait for the rivalry to take off again next year

  98. Jeff November 4th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    We all hate you Alex!!!

  99. We Miss Paulie November 4th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    I havent read every post here, but I have to disagree with Pete, a bit. I unerstand that Arod could have re-directed Boras ala Villone, etc. BUT Boras has a responsibility to steer his client in the right direction as well. Players are just that sometimes and arent aware of how other issues might affect them When they hire an agent, money is one (big) component of the relationship. Agents must look out for their client’s image and public persona…they get them to do charity work, smart endorsements, and when they are about do do something stupid, advise them against it. Boras didn’t do anything, he led Arod blindly into a public relations snake pit (created by Boras) which will define him for the rest of his career. Do I blame Arod? Yes. But Boras is getting paid to protect Arod form getting into this type of situation.

  100. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    Is anyone else watching the maraton?

  101. Terry in N.H. November 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    I’m tired of the Arod negativity. He carried the Yanks all season. Without his year they wouldn’t even get to the playoffs. He won games and hit meaningful HR’s all year long. He may have not been handling this Optout thing well, but if he apologized and wanted to come back at a reasonable price then fans should welcome him again. You don’t replace a hall of fame, potential HR king at 3B. Giambi gets a pass on this team all the time. He collects his paycheck and hasn’t even done anything for this team the last few years. So give AROD a break!!

  102. Samantha November 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    “Boras didn’t scream at him, he made the deal that Villone wanted.”

    run-on sentence

  103. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    A-Rod & Boras will set an unbreakable record this Winter. The most discussed player/agent ever. Every team, the Yanks included will take A-Rod if they could get him. Maybe he will never produce in the post season, but he will surely help any team get there. Without him, the Yanks may not be a playoff team in 2008. With the “new direction” (young pitching and new manager) and increasing strength of the Red Sox we may not make the playoffs even with him. But, I’m excited about our chances for being the team of the next decade. I’m afraid the team of this decade is the Red Sox.

    As far as Boras’s influence on A-Rod and the timing of the opt out announcement, I think it took Boras a week to convince A-Rod and he pulled the trigger before A-Rod changed his mind. If A-Rod could play SS in NY it would have been a no-brainer. I hear he wants to retire as the greatest SS ever and the best fit, money and all, may turn out to be the Cubs if Mark Cuban buys the team. Wow, just imagine #800 at Wrigley.

    As a last thought I ask “Who amongst us would not seek a raise by any means”? Good luck A-Rod!!!

  104. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Dee: That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. A-Rod is like that boyfriend that cheated on you, and you thought he was perfect. All season long, he’s been saying “I love you baby, you’re the only one [team] for me. All my past relationships [teams] haven’t meant as much to me as you. I’d never leave you.” And then while he hasn’t exactly cheated yet, he just told us he’s on a break. So we want him to come crawling back, begging for forgiveness. If he takes a paycut, that means he is admitting he’s wrong. If he dumps Boras, that’s like his best friend that he always went out clubbing with or went to strip clubs with, so dumping him would show that he’s really committed to our relationship.

    I think I thought this metaphor through a bit too much.

  105. catya November 4th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    Arod over estimated his value to the Steinbrenners. You see Arod thought he wolud say” jump” to the yankees and they would say “how high.” Instead the Yankees told him “get to stepping,you over priced head case.”

  106. pat November 4th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Murphydog

    For people that I don’t know personally, I stop at empathy. For people I know personally, I try to help them enact positive change.

    Your statement of life gives you feedback is brilliant. I agree 100%. I guess where we differ is that I think all people respond to the feedback they get with different set of filters in place.

    It’s been fun debating this with you but got to get a 5 year old to a soccer game. I appreciate the people here who have well thought out rational points of view.

  107. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    Is anyone else watching the maraton?

    anyone else drop-dead, yet?

  108. Patrick Kielty November 4th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Murphydog,

    Awesome! I know that this is not the ‘done thing’ but your posts are among the most thoughtful, insightful and intelligent (all repetive compliments!)of any I’ve seen on any blog. And considering the many very fine posts of others here, that’s saying something. You’re one of the reasons this blog is so interesting to read.

    I’ve been following the Yankees since 1953 and this has to be one of the most exciting offseasons that I can recall. While I don’t subscribe to Giradi’s personal views concerning ‘faith,’ I greatly admire his personal conduct and his view of life, as regards his baseball hero (Lou Gehrig) and his work ethic; a great choice for manager of the Yankees! Whatever happens though, this will always remain my team, ‘through thick and thin.’ If it means waiting a year or two for the Yankees pitchers to mature and the Action Jacksons, Tabatas, Gardiners etc. to come into their own, so be it. They’re doing it the right way and they will be back soon!

  109. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    Hey Jennifer – have they figured out the cause of death of the runner yet?

    Bob – interesting you think the timing had to do with Boras being worried Arod would change his mind. My theory is that image-conscious Arod wanted desparately to have an excuse so he wouldn’t look greedy. He got wind Girardi was getting named on Monday and Mo was taking a meeting in Tampa on Tue so Arod needed to use the “uncertainty” excuse on Sunday before the window was passed. The WS timing was bonus for PR.

    Andrea – Exactly, but the thing is if he crawls back you can’t trust him anymore. It’s better to move on and start over.

  110. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    Dee: but how many relationships are actually like that? How many people take back their cheating boyfriend or one they suspect of cheating?

    Oh, how he hurt us. I think we all need a support group :)

  111. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    Dee – I like your spin too.

  112. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    My brother was supposed to run in the marathon today, but he hurt his achilles.

    He’s run it twice before.

    I also think he’s a masochist.

  113. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Dee – it has to be either EPO related clot (PED) or an undiagnosed heart arrhythmia.

  114. Chris from MI November 4th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    “link”:http://www.yankees.com

    Anyone know why this doesn’t create a link?

  115. We Miss Paulie November 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Hey Bob – would you “seek a raise by any means” if a) you already had all the money in the world and B) it meant that you’d ruin your reputation?

  116. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    Just type in the web address
    http://www.yankees.com

    it should work.

  117. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    Dee- I thought I heard it was a heart attack.

  118. We Miss Paulie November 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    MLB Trade Rumors is reporting that serious talks between Chicago and Yankees for a Damon – Crede trade. Looks like they’re moving on from Arod for a new 3b.

  119. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    pat:

    You’re right about people having unique filters. Here’s an example of economic class filters at work: the more money people like A-Rod have, the less sympathy they can count on from ordinary people. None of us little people (and I speak only for myself) seem to have patience for graceless rich folk.

    Hope you enjoy the soccer game. I remember when my daughter was 5 and played soccer. Getting 5 year olds to play soccer is like herding cats.

  120. LathamJoe November 4th, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    murphydog:
    I, too, appreciate your insightful comments. In the Boras issue, we can agree to disagree.

    If anything good has come of the ARod Opt out soap opera, its the fact that the media – and the bloggers here – have moved beyond the “Torre Story”. Hopefully, we can shortly move beyond ARod debacle.

    I’ve always respected ARod for his gifted physical abilities, he is the greatest all-around baseball player of the current generation. But with his great physical skills comes the narcism, the self pity, the self promoting, and the media circus that is ARod. I’ll miss his presence in the Yankee lineup, I won’t miss the constant attention he seems to attract – negative or positive.
    Time to move on and enjoy the new New York Yankees!

  121. Jimbo November 4th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Several obvious points:

    Pitching wins championships. Hopefully in the next few seasons we will return to the days when we had championship-caliber pitching like in the late 1990s. You can win with a Crede or a Brosius when you have that kind of pitching. Indeed, a Brosius can hit an amazing home run in a WS game if your pitching keeps the other team’s scoring way down.

    The Red Sox proved they could win without A-Rod, and if he goes anywhere else besides the Yanks it is just as well for them. A-Rod is a threat to their plans if he is a Yankee. He does not make any other team in the AL so good that the Sox have to worry, especially not in the Al East.

    And Mr. Faded High and Tight Glory, since when did Torre throw the Yanks under the bus? I think the reverse could easily be said. Who got the three year offer? Not Torre.

    I hope I am wrong but just wait for Girardi (Industrial Eng. degree) to show his intellectual arrogance for the sportswriters. You know it will happen, and they will pounce. Torre never did that to them (at least not in an intellectually condescending way). Girardi has shown this side during Yankee broadcasts on YES, even talking down to men like Ken Singleton, who knows his baseball. That kind of attitude will not play well with guys like Pete Abe or the writers at the Post or Daily News.

  122. john November 4th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

    SNL’s Weekend Update anchors had a great line about A-Rod’s opt out. It went something like this:

    “A-Rod has opted out of his Yankee contract making him available to any team with money to burn that doesn’t want to win.”

  123. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

    I’d rather Damon than Crede. But I’m not Cashman. So I don’t get to decide.

  124. Buddy Biancalana November 4th, 2007 at 1:32 pm

    Is anyone else watching the maraton?

    anyone else drop-dead, yet?

    Doc, please never grant me an appointment with you. LOL

  125. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    The NY Yankees were mentioned at least twice during the maraton. :)

  126. gianthinker November 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Arod smells like butt.

  127. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    I’ve run it a few times, after a few operations caused by running my running days are over. It’s quite an experience.

  128. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    I hope I am wrong but just wait for Girardi (Industrial Eng. degree) to show his intellectual arrogance for the sportswriters. You know it will happen, and they will pounce.

    Arrogance in New Yawk?? Oh, goodness gracious!

    Just win, baby!

    Bloggers will watch Joe’s back.

  129. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    I think I would be exhausted just running over the Verazano Bridge.

  130. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    Oy, guys, I’m all for being angry at A-Rod and whatnot, but can we keep the insults to above a middle-school level?

    :-D

  131. Buddy Biancalana November 4th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    Rebecca-

    I think gianthinker was being ironic.

    Not!

  132. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    The last time I ran in 1992 there was a guy relieving himself into the wind halfway across the Verrazzano bridge and spraying everyone running by. I guess he never spit into the wind.

  133. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Mr. Kielty:

    You are too kind. (I am bowing deeply as I write this).

    In fact, I am as pure a vacuum on “inside baseball” as you are likely to find here or anywhere. Nevertheless, I refuse to let a simple thing like ignorance prevent me from launching my opinions into the blogosphere.

    Actual insights are, however, posted here most days from SJ44, randy1, doreen, LathamJoe, Randyhater, Rebecca, Jennifer, Andrea, Dr. Acula, kasey, Chris, Jeff, Joe, Bob, Rob, Tony, Annie Savoy and many many others too numerous to list. And last, but in no way least, our graceful and generous host, Mr. Abraham always leads the way with the real inside stuff.

  134. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Is anyone content with “all the money in the World”?

    We’ll miss Damon more than A-Rod.

  135. G. Love November 4th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    If I hear another person on this blog propose Damon for Crede like it’s a good deal, I’m gonna come out of your monitor and kick someone.

    Why in God’s name would we trade a healthy productive offensive and defensive player, our only leadoff hitter, a clutch hitter who won a post season game this year with a big HR for a 3b with nowhere to play on his team with one good season under his belt coming off BACK SURGERY????

    Are you kidding me? Enough with it. If Cashman is dumb enough to make that deal, I’ll become a Red Sox fan.

    NO ONE knows if Crede will have his power, let alone be physically able to play defense at 3b like he once did coming off back surgery.

    So we’re going to trade Damon, especially with Matsui going in for knee surgery, and go into the season with a question mark at LF, 3b and in our lead off spot.

    Enough. Pull your heads out of the black hole. If they want to trade for Crede and it takes more than a Karstens or a Colter Bean type life time minor leaguer, it’s a huge mistake.

  136. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    One time there were two women in sweat suits, running shoes on Staten Island about an hour before the start of the marathon, chain smoking one right after another, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing so finally I went up and asked one of them if they were race monitors, and one of the girls (20ish) said “no, but we figure it will be at least 4 hours before we can have another cigarette.”

  137. murphydog November 4th, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    Mr. Kielty:

    You are too kind. You too, Latham Joe. One thing we can say for A-Rod he keeps the juices flowing.

  138. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    Dr. I remember that, what year was it.

  139. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    G. Love–you might want to get used to it, I’m hearing those rumors everywhere.

    It’s not such a bad deal: We’ve got a LF, and a CF and RF, and it’s likely that Austin Jackson will be ready soon–maybe not in 2008, but in 2009 it’s extremely likely.

    I’m a Damon fan, and he’s a great lead-off hitter, but Melky, when he’s on, has shown he can do it as well, and unlike Damon, Melky is young.

    So would it be the best trade in the history of the Yankees? Unlikely. Will it temporarily fill a gaping hole in the 3B spot and not have us parting with Ian or Phil? Yes.

    Heh, no one thought much of it when the Yanks got David Justice in 2000, and then the Yanks went and won the World Series because of him.

    You just never know.

  140. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    Colter Bean was granted free-agency.

  141. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    1980 Boston Marathon

  142. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    1980.

  143. JJNJ November 4th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    Great post, Pete!

  144. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    Gardner will be ready before Jackson and will take over lead-off.

  145. G. Love November 4th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    I was using Bean as an example of the type of driftwood we should give up for the likes of Crede.

    Crede’s biggest asset is his defense and power. He just had back surgery. Remember what happened to Mattingly after he had back surgery? The ball stopped going over the wall and the defense at 1b took a hit. 3b is a much more physically demanding defensive position, so I’m not convinced Crede is going to be the next Nettles in pinstripes.

    Unless the White Sox are sending over really good prospects or a good major league middle reliever plus Crede for Damon, it’s a deal that should never be made.

    Crede will get non tendered if we don’t trade for him. Cashman is not this dumb.

    Damon has 2 years left on his deal. He’s not blocking the progress of any minor leaguer.

    Karstens for Crede is about the most we should do.

    Damon is not Giambi. There is no reason for the team to cut and run from the money they owe him.

    I think the trade rumors are just that, rumors. Perhaps it’s the Yankees trying to show Boras/Arod that they are seriously moving on. Perhaps it’s Kenny Williams floating the rumors trying to raise Crede’s value.

    Regardless, it’s a terrible deal that only hurts the Yankees. Their LF defense suffers and their lead off spot is a void. If you want Matsui running around LF like Frankenstein again, you can have him. He was awful in the OF last year and he’s not going to get much better.

    The deal makes no sense unless the White Sox are sending over something with Crede that is very valuable.

  146. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    I can’t wait til the unauthorized biography of Arod to come out after he retires. There will be more drama in the next 8-12 years that will make this Yankees opt-out and the Toronto blond episodes look like two drops in a bucket, I guarantee.

  147. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    I actually kind of liked the “ARod smells like butt” comment. We’re running out of reasonable things to say, so why not just accuse him of smelling like butt?

  148. 2008 Yankees November 4th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    Pete, you can try to spin this as an Arod problem but I still FULLY believe Boras has a lot more control over Arod than he does over other clients. This is the PREMIER athlete we are talking about, and Boras’ gravy train, meal ticket, retirement client, all rolled up into one. If Boras goes to Arod and tells him that he has received feedback that he could get A LOT more money, then, being the woman he is, Arod will listen. Arod doesn’t seem like a guy who will man-up. I think his wife wears the pants in that family and all those sessions at the psychiatrist probably haven’t helped. He’s a GREAT athlete but a poor excuse for a man. And Boras may be a great agent but he loves the put himself out there for the WORLD to see and hear. You RARELY ever hear other agents talk, they just do their job. Boras puts himself out there to be viewed as a jerk.

  149. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    LOL, makes me think of his infamous quote (from SI 2006)…”When people write bad things about me, is it because I’m biracial, I’m good-looking, I make the most money, or becasue I smell like Butt?”

    Sorry I couldn’t resist:-)

  150. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Andrea–Touche, but I thought if you’re gonna go that route, why not call it what it is-a$$?

  151. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 2:09 pm

    I’ve never kissed any butt. What does it smell like?

    Boras doesn’t care what the World thinks of him.

  152. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    Okay so maybe I don’t remember it, I was too young, But I heard about it. :)

  153. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

    “I’m a huge Wang fan, but do you know why he won so many games this year? Run support.”

    Um…pretty sure that his 3.70 ERA and frequently pitching into the 7th inning had a lot to do with his winning. But it’s cool, don’t let truth stop your ranting.

    “Gardner will be ready before Jackson and will take over lead-off.”

    Gardner is not a particularly productive player. He hits for very few extra base hits. He doesn’t need to hit homers, but he needs to be hitting gappers for doubles. The kid’s a 4th ofer. Speed is exciting, but you need a _little_ pop too.

  154. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Doug also had surgery, and he started to hit. SO you can’t say just because he had back surgery he won’t hit.

  155. Ed FL November 4th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Peter,have you noticed your server time is wrong?

  156. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    Wang will be great in 2008 if they let his fingernail heal.

    Garner’s OBP and speed will play well at lead-off under Girardi. He may be up in late 8 or 2009, but will bat ninth until 2010.

  157. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    Dude, anyone watching the Jets game?

  158. Strummerson November 4th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    I am with those who think that the debate should now fully be directed at the question of who plays third next year. One of the reasons I have directed previous comments at Boras as opposed to his premier client is that the former is still relevant to the Yankees. The latter is not. This may be a tragedy of sorts for all involved, or at least a disappointing missed opportunity, but it is out of our hands and now irrelevant. Boras and his antics remain a real question.

  159. Mike NYY November 4th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    Hey, could you guys humor me and check out my post on my blog about next years pitching rotation.

    http://riveravenuewatch.blogsp.....ching.html

  160. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    I’m watching, not too many in the stands. I want to see a long bomb for clemens.

  161. Mike NYY November 4th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    I`m watching

    Giants fan though :D

  162. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

    Chas’s not waving his towel. :(

  163. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

    Mike: Gladly

    Jennifer: Why’d we wait so long to put Clemens in?

  164. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Well, I still think Boras is greedy and bad for baseball. But I certainly agree that this whole debacle is just as much A-Rod’s fault or more. What irked me was MLB’s announcement after the WS, something to the effect of, “we can’t believe Boras would interfere with the Series like this”…well what about A-Rod? Why wasn’t MLB “disappointed” in him? Didn’t he have to okay Boras’ announcement? So yeah, good point Pete.

    Love the stuff about Villone. He’ll never be a great pitcher, but I’ll never not love the guy – it’s so obvious how badly he wants to be here and be a Yankee. I think it’s not only cause he’s a Jersey guy but the Yanks are his team and always have been, and it’s obvious how much it means to him to put on the uniform. He may not be a big name but he is as true a Yankee as True Yankees come. Long live Villone, North Jersey represent!

  165. Keith FL November 4th, 2007 at 2:30 pm

    We make the WS in 2003 the year before AROD with Aaron Boone hitting a homer…one that AROD never hits in the post season by the way, he would be gripping the bat too hard, thinking too much being the post season head case that he is….then we collapse in 2004 with his arm swipe of Arroyo, lose in the first round vs. Angels, Tigers, and Indians, AROD can’t hit in the postseason, meanwhile Boston who got lucky when the AROD deal fell through wins 2 world series…who still wants AROD as a Yankee…definitely not me….we are better off without him..get your money elsewhere AROD and we’ll go back to winning the World Series while you still try to win MVP’s and Boras record contracts…thanks for nothing but drama AROD, we will both be better off without each other….now Cashman lets build a smart hard working team, mixed with some veterans and youth and get # 27!!!

  166. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 2:30 pm

    Don’t know. I feel bad for Chad, but it was really time for a change. He almost got Coles killed last week. :( I’m glad they were smart and didn’t let him play. I’d bet that Wayne was on the phone with him telling him not to play.

  167. Mike NYY November 4th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    Okay, on Boras

    Leave him alone. His job is to get his clients the best deal possible. Call him greedy? He`s no greedier than any of the players or owners, or anyone else in baseball.

  168. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    Did you catch the slip, he said red soxs offense, than changed it to red skins.

  169. Mike NYY November 4th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    On A-Rod

    Leave him alone to. Why should he have any loyalty to the Yankees at all? During an All Star season he was booed in 2006. On Opening day 2007 he was booed.

  170. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    Jennifer: My friend actually had an interesting though–Chad will probably make a GREAT coach.

  171. ewl2 November 4th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    The fun part of baseball and all sports is that they are both emotional and business. It makes it very hard to separate the 2. For Boras and the Yankees its all business. For the writers and the fans its emotional. The NYTimes article linked in a previous thread makes excellent points why this is just another negotion. We all are mad at Arod for opting out etc. when its was the most logical thing to do to maximize his salary. Even if the Yankees do want him back, the most logical thing to do is to yell and scream that they only want him is he doesn’t opt out, so the yankees can negotiate from a position of power. Its just like buying a car, you might love it, but you don’t show that to the salesmen. Its the same thing here.
    Yes, Arod makes an insane amount money, so do the yankees. Its just business, but we the fans are stuck twisting in the wind. Come the spring he may be back, and that may be what Arod wanted the whole time. You can’t blame him for wanting the most money he can get. For him that seems to be his measure of greatness.

    Lets see if the yankees make a trade for a 3B in the next couple weeks. If not they will probably bring Arod back. I’m not sure what I want. The emotion side says let him go since it appears he doesn’t want to be here. the logical side says wait and see and to welcome him back.

  172. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    Well Whozat,

    I ran some quick numbers. This year in the AL, the average win numbers for the top ten ERA leaders (Wang is not top 10) was 16 wins. So Wang had 3 more wins than the average for pitchers who were BETTER than him (if you want to use ERA as a measure of such things). That means run support was very important.

  173. Joe from Long Island November 4th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    I wouldn’t make that Damon for Crede trade. Damon has value for us, as a leadoff hitter and offensive threat. Crede has no position on the White Sox, as Josh Fields will be their 3B, and I don’t think Konerko will be displaced from 1st.

    We may get Crede, but I’d be surprised if Damon is the price, unless as part of a much bigger deal (can’t imagine what).

  174. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    Crede was the WS MVP in 2005, right?

    I like him and everything but I’m just worried about him staying healthy. I DON’T want to see Betemit at 3b for any elongated period of time if Crede gets injured.

  175. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    “That means run support was very important.”

    No, it means that run support was _a_ factor, as was bullpen performance – which in turn is affected by how deep into games the starter goes.

    If he had number like RJ in 2006 (ERA of 5ish with 17 wins), THEN you can say run support was very important.

    The numbers on how much support each pitcher got should be out there somewhere. I’m sure that Wang got above league average, but saying that he’s not good when he sports a solid ERA, few walks, and few homers is just ridiculous.

    Is he CC Sabathia? No. But he’s still been very good for the last two years.

  176. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    I never said he was not good. I completely agree that he’s good. I’m saying that his 19 wins the last couple of years is a product of extra run support. He’s more of a 15-16 game winner on any other team. Should he be penalized for playing for the Yankees? No. But we also can’t pretend that run support does not matter and the team can lose ARod’s production without issue.

  177. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    SYRACUSE!

    I love hearing my school on TV. Makes me so proud. *wistful*

  178. 2008 Yankees November 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    Mike NYY:

    The problem with Boras is that he tries to make himself BIGGER than his client. Agents should not be SEEN or HEARD. Do your freakin job behind the scenes and allow your client to show who he is to the world. I don’t want to hear the agent say how his client is worth half a billion $$ to an organization!

  179. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    And, the fact that he isn’t CC Sabathia, or Carmona and he’s our ace, that’s why the Yankees haven’t won in a few years in the playoffs.

  180. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    BBB: here’s why I’ve got a tiny bit of love for Villone. In game 4 of the ALDS this year, he got Hafner out with runners on for the 3rd out. It ended up not mattering, but getting outs was a big deal this postseason, and he wasn’t even on the original roster. Hafner has never hit Villone.

    I don’t love him as much as Matty, but you know, I don’t love anyone as much as matty :)

  181. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    “I wouldn’t make that Damon for Crede trade. Damon has value for us, as a leadoff hitter and offensive threat. Crede has no position on the White Sox”

    It does seem odd. If they took the whole contract, I guess it’d make sense. The Yanks would be dumping a whole bunch of cash. But there’d need to be another move for a leadoff guy. And another more to create a hole where that guy could play. Basically, we’d do this and then have to find a speedy CFer who can leadoff…again. And trade Melky so that guy can actually have a place to play.

  182. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    EricVA: you cant’ say that definitively. Sometimes it is because of run support, sometimes it’s not. Wang limited the Angels to 3 runs at one point this year (just an example I remember) and got the loss because the yankees couldn’t get any runs. So you can’t say that it was definitely because of run support.

  183. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    Yes Andrea I realize that. But the season is a long one and you have to look at the average. There was also a game that Wil Nieves got 3 hits, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve to be replaced.

  184. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    “But we also can’t pretend that run support does not matter and the team can lose ARod’s production without issue.”

    K. But, you don’t have to have Wang win 19 games if your other pitchers are better. Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Joba, Kennedy/Mussina could easily win more games than this year’s staff, provided with .800 OPS at each corner.

    Make the pitching better, spread out the ARod’s production across 3B and 1B, and I think the team is a lot better. The danger of having “the guy” is that if he had a bad series, the team has a bad series.

    I’d much rather have two 20 HR threats than one 50 HR threat.

  185. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    EricVA: I know there were other examples with Wang. There really weren’t for Nieves. Though I’m not gonna lie, I have, and rock, a Wil Nieves t-shirt.

    Any Yankee pitcher will benefit from a great deal of run support, usually. But any Yankee pitcher will also be expected to be an above average pitcher. Wang’s ERA took a big hit this year due to a couple REALLY bad starts. If you take that one awful start in Toronto out of his ERA, it drops quite a bit.

  186. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    Absolutely. We are in total agreement.

    Put anybody there! I just believe that if the team ERA is 4.50 next year, they won’t win as many games with the reduced offense. I do think that Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain, #5 (whoever) will be better than the 2007 staff. I think they’ll have to be if they want to make the playoffs.

    On top of losing ARod, no way Posada puts up the same numbers, Matsui and Damon are a year older and who knows who the regular 1st baseman is.

  187. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    Andrea: Yeah I remember those outs too! I also remember, for some reason, Villone getting big outs in that game vs ChiSox when Clemens gave up 8 runs and we came back to score 8 off Garland…but again, unfortunately it ended up mattering cause Farns proceded to go in and throw batting practice. Villone is what he is – an average reliever. But it seems he often steps up in big moments and gets the job done with little fanfare. He has a ton of heart and loyalty and I wouldn’t mind anyone on the team taking a page out of his book. Except T-Clip and Matty, they’re already perfect as they are! :)

  188. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Got to keep Damon. What do we have to trade for Crede and what do the WSox need? Their pitching is solid except for Contreras who will be gone. How about Kartens and/or Rasner competing for their #5? The Cards needed pitching in 2007.b Would we take a chance on Rolen? Huge upside if he’s healthy.

  189. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Or, I remember that out, I should say, cause I think they only had him in for that 1 out, which irked me slightly. We really need an edit button!

  190. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    That’s true. But Damon will likely come into April healthy, and so will Abreu.

    Yeah. That’s all I got. Now you got me all depressed!

  191. Joe from Long Island November 4th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Whozat – Yeah, you would wind up making a new hole and having to fill that. I think that if Cash really wanted Crede, there would another way to do that. And you’re right about having a more balanced lineup, with power spread throughout.

  192. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    BBB: I personally liked how Villone, at whatever age he is, spent the first part of the season in AAA. Would someone like Farnsworth do that? I realize it’s not the same situation due to time in the majors, contract, etc, but still.

  193. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    In an off-topic note, does anyone else find it slightly disturbing that not only do the Detroit Lions not suck…but they’re actually kind of good?

  194. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Andrea,

    I was kidding about Nieves. I felt really bad about him losing his job. But you can’t just discount a pitcher’s worst game when looking at their overall season. If we did that with every pitcher, then all of their ERA’s would go down.

  195. Bob-FanSince50 November 4th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Love Vallone too. Have to like a guy who goes to SWB without crying and waits. Plus, he’s our only long relief.

  196. mel November 4th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Either Alex didn’t want to be a Yankee anymore or the A-Team grossly underestimated the Yankees desire for keeping Alex in pinstripes.

    I’m o.k. with either one.

    To quote our fearless leader, “That ship has sailed”. Next!

  197. willis November 4th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Someone over on NYYFans says they just heard on ESPNEWS that Andy has asked for the “family plan” ala Clemens…

  198. mel November 4th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    Abreu will be playing winter ball in Venezuela so he should be hitting ST in stride.

  199. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    I read the Yankees will allow him to leave if he needs to.

  200. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    Andrea: Yeah, especially when another team, I think the Indians, was also interested in signing him and he probably would have started the year in the majors with them. (I think they wanted him so Hafner didn’t have to face him…heh.) But, he loves the Yankees and loves being here. Isn’t it nice to hear someone say that and then actually take actions that back it up? Long live Villone!

  201. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    My fantasy football team sucks. qb has ZERO points!!

  202. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    I heard Girardi is moving spring training from Tampa to Paris Island, S.C.

  203. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    Has anyone heard about the Yankees playing a st game in Virgina at VT?

  204. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Man this is bad. Between football and stimulating baseball debate, the grad school paper definitely isn’t getting done.

  205. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    BBB–It is VERY disturbing.

    Willis–Pettitte has said he wants more time with his family, or something of the sort, I think…but I’d be lying if I said that Pettitte didn’t deserve it.

  206. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Jennifer: Don’t quote me for sure but I asked that on another thread and someone told me it was being played on 3/18.

    Fantasy woes galore here too…Travis Henry, Vernon Davis & Chris Chambers are killin’ me!

  207. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    Eric: At least you’re *IN* grad school…

    You don’t want to know about the state of disarray my applications are in!

  208. mel November 4th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    Who’s Pettitte’s new agent? Roger Clemens? j/k. We need Andy back, and Clemens didn’t abuse it. Give him what it takes. We need a veteran to anchor a young rotation. Oh yeah, bring back Roger to be the “mental conditioning coach”.

  209. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    EricVA-

    can’t you hire someone to write the paper for you?

  210. Doreen November 4th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    You see, this is what happens! It’s like telephone,you, know, that game? In today’s (NY times or Star Ledger) paper, Hank Steinbrenner talked about the Clemens plan. He said Andy had not asked for it. He said that he understands the difficulty of Andy’s decision because of how much Andy wants to be around his family. He said that while they were not discussing a Clemens-type family plan, that they would certainly be amenable to making it as easy as possible for Andy to get as much family times as he needs. He also said that the team is in no hurry for Andy to make his decision, regardless of the calendar deadlines.

  211. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    Oh Rebecca, I wish I weren’t in grad school. What a waste of my time. I guess I’m just bitter that I can’t sit back with a beer and enjoy my Sunday. I’m also bitter that I waited until Sunday to start a paper!

  212. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    :( they should have played it on the weekend, unless they are just making it a game for the kids from the school to watch.

  213. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    Hire somebody…hmmm.

    Well, I’m a teacher so I don’t have too much extra cash. And yesterday I decided it was time for a TV in my bedroom. I guess any cash that could’ve gone to my paper went to Best Buy instead. Are you offering, Dr.?

    PS, I’ve been wondering for a loooooong time. Is your name a Scrubs reference?

  214. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    “Someone over on NYYFans says they just heard on ESPNEWS that Andy has asked for the “family plan” ala Clemens…”

    There is MUCH need to be careful with offseason “news”

    When listening to actual news sources, you need to pay REALLY close attention to the words they use. “May”, “could be”, “is expected to”, these are all weasel words that allow analysts to basically make up stuff that’s not _too_ crazy and pass it off as near fact to the casual listener.

    Then, there’s the problem of hearing about such reports second had. Did the person hear someone on ESPN say “So, Krukkie, do you think the Yankees could offer Pettite a Clemens-style family plan?” or “Steve, I think Andy could ask for a Clemens-style family plan”? Or did they hear “Yankees officials confirm that Andy Pettitte has made his 2008 return contingent upon a Clemens-style family plan”?

    Those are very, very different.

  215. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    No, I moonlight as a hematologist.

  216. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    “I wish I weren’t in grad school”

    I hate grad school. I’ve been doing my PhD for six years! I made the mistake of staying at my undergrad school for my doctorate, too. So, I’m working on my tenth year in the same place. Ugh. I have a sweet job offer waiting for me out there, I just need to finish this stupid work!

  217. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    I hear you. I finished undergrad in 4 years, then went back to undergrad for a different degree for 2 years and now I’m in grad school for the past year. I’m sick of being a student.

  218. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Guys, you’re making me all depressed and stuff…but it’s not likely I’ll land a job teaching English history at a semi-prestigious university without at least an MA!

  219. Joe from Long Island November 4th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Jennifer – I remember when the Yankees had Virginia Tech Day at the Stadium this past season. If I remember correctly, they agreed to do a ST day this coming season.

  220. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    “I’m sick of being a student.”

    Hell yeah. I left for last summer to go work out in real life, and it was so wonderful to go home at the end of the day and NOT have this nagging sense that I should be working. Seriously, it was the first time in years that I _didn’t_ go to work on the weekends – and didn’t feel guilty about it!

  221. Doreen November 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    All you grad school people out there – Just remember, better to do it now than think you’ll have a chance later. I assumed that once I had my kids I would go back for my graduate degree. Well, to make a long story short, I didn’t. And I absolutely loved being a student, so it wasn’t that I was putting off the experience. Life just has a way of not always turning out exactly as you’d planned…

    But I wish you all luck. Now, HIT THOSE BOOKS!!!

  222. Doreen November 4th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    No, not “luck” — I wish you all well.

  223. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    I dont understand why Brady left that georgeous thing for what he has now!!!Only saw her in one movie that also starred Nicholas Cage.Kinda reminds me of Ashley Judd.

    Speaking of lookalikes someone posted in the Karstens post that he looks like the son on Nip/Tuck….right on the money.

    Kevin Long reminds me of Cory Lidle(RIP) and Papelbon reminds me of a young John Lithgow!!!

  224. mel November 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    Speaking of Brady, who wins today?

  225. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    “but it’s not likely I’ll land a job teaching English history at a semi-prestigious university without at least an MA!”

    Don’t most require a PhD to be a prof? If you’ve never read http://www.phdcomics.com, you should – before deciding to start a doctorate:-)

    It’s a humorous, but often all-too-accurate, look at what it’s like being in phd school. The author came here to give a talk one time and it’s kind of helpful to know that ALL PhD students EVERYWHERE go through the same stuff. We ALL feel overwhelmed sometimes, we ALL have advisors that ignore us sometimes, we ALL get frustrated by the capricious nature of paper reviewers, etc etc etc.

  226. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    Yankees will play Virginia Tech on March 18TH it will be an exhibition Game and not count in the ST standings.Boston usually plays BC in late February in Ft Myers.

  227. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    You’re right, doing it now is better than later. But, there was that few months last year when I was just working. Just like Whozat, it was the most relaxing of the past decade! All this past week I’ve been stressed out even when doing nothing because I knew I should be doing work.

    BTW, page 1/6 done!

  228. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    can’t you guys just pad your resumes, nobody does background checks anymore. And if you get any static, then you can always go back and do it the hard way.

  229. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    UtilityMan
    are they playing the game in Virginia or in Fla?

  230. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    Oh man I wish. The county requires transcripts that they base your pay on. Unless I can fake transcripts, I’m out of luck.

  231. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    The Pats have replaced the Yankees as the EE, Have to root for the Colts.

  232. EricVA November 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    Plus they’ll probably google me and this conversation will appear.

  233. mel November 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    Dr. Acula,

    Didn’t you take some kind of ethics oath? Advising students to commit plagiarism and fraud? lol.

  234. Bor-Rod = A-@$$ November 4th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    Both these jerks are to blame. Unless A-Rod actually develops some true character, he is going to totally ‘dis the Yankees and once again set a record that is meaningless : Highest Paid Baseball Player. Remember,,,NO RINGS….NO HITS in his last 18 post season ABs and an incredibly poor batting average when playing on one of the strongest teams in all of baseball. Imagine what kind of pitches he’ll see on the team that will ultimately barf up 350 million over 10 years….He’ll see NOTHING and his quest to become the HR champion will be NO MORE !

  235. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Jennifer- I am not sure about where the game is to be played,if I had to guess it would be in Florida,Tampa.It will probably be too chilly to play in VA on 3-18-07.All proceeds are supose to go to the school.

  236. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    If I was to bet my money would be with the Pats though.

  237. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    UtilityMan

    You are right, I didn’t even think of that. DUH! But that is cool that they are doing the game for them. I hope Yes or espn broadcasts it.

  238. mel November 4th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Where’s Pete’s crystal ball prognostication? Maybe he doesn’t want to jinx the Pats. I hope Brady & Co. take care of business like they’ve been doing all season.

  239. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    “can’t you guys just pad your resumes, nobody does background checks anymore.”

    Google does, and my offer is contingent upon my doctorate:-(

  240. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Pats will probably win…but Ill be rooting for Peyton and Co.

    Cant wait to see what Belecheat is going to put up on the scoreboard when the Pats play the Jets again.
    Some say he is out for revenge against the lge for what happened in week 1.

  241. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Man, what a decision: Ashley Judd or Bridget Moynahan

    http://tinyurl.com/368vcd

    That’s just not right!!

    In all seriousness, Ashley has a Firecracker personality !!!

  242. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    Rooting for the Colts, but the Pats are probably going to win.

    Meanwhile the Jets are trying to find every way possible to blow their lead.

    I’ve read PhD Comics; they’re brilliant! I do want my PhD eventually just…right now I think it might end up killing me >_>;;

  243. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    mel-

    Alberto Gonzalez told me it was okay. ;)

  244. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    Could be a 20+Underdog for the Jets that week.

  245. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    And you know what will happen if he continues to run up the score? Someone will take a cheap shot at Brady looking to injure him.

  246. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Very Nice Dr.

    I see the similarities

    Glad to start the discussion!!!

  247. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:06 pm

    Jennifer- I have heard talk of someone possibly taking a shot at Belecheat on the sidelines ala Joe Paterno a few yrs ago…although that was just an accident.

    Not condoning that…just some talk that I have heard..probably wouldnt happen though.

  248. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    UtilityMan-

    Ashley is cooler, but I do like the chain-link bracelet Bridget is wearing on her left wrist – comes in handy for after-hours partying.

  249. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    Got any stats on the two of them?Age,height weight??

  250. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    It will be unbearable to have the Pats go undefeated. I think a loss of either Moss or Welker could also slow them down some what. I’m sure Pete loves all this conspiracy talk against his nitwit Pats.

  251. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:13 pm

    Take him out at the knee. :)

  252. mel November 4th, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    Dr. Acula,

    What does the Yankee prospect have to do with it?

    Jennifer,

    How can you wish ill on a Yankee fan that lives in Boston?

  253. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    Got any pictures of Ashley modeling boy’s sizes?

  254. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    Because he won’t come out and say he is a Yankee fan. He is A PHONY!!

  255. Jake November 4th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    Sure, sure, sure, Peter, A-Rod is ultimately to blame, we all know this and don’t think for a second that we aren’t angry with him too, more so than Boras for my part.

    Having said that, I will say that Boras resembles everything that is wrong with professional sports as it relates to money, regardless of whether he is or is not the player.

  256. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    I just realize my QB left the game with an injury! Thats why he hasn’t scored!! I’m going to lose my 4th game in a row!! UGH!!

  257. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Well, Ashley is 5’6″ and 39.

    Bridget is 5’10″ and 37.

    The both look a lot younger.

    I got to hand it to Brady (age 30), he had no problems dating someone older, too many guys do for various reasons.

  258. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    You all know Pete’s gonna be crushed if the Pats don’t win, aye?

  259. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    TS

  260. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Nice Work Dr. A

    I was going to choose Bridget anyways…someone needs to be a Daddy for her.

  261. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Gosh the jets really only want to win one game!

  262. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Bridget is much much much cuter than Gisele. Not sure what Brady was smoking there.

  263. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    Got any pictures of Ashley modeling boy’s sizes?

    Well, she does have adorable tom-boy qualities, which you most often see when she roots on the Wildcats in the NCAA tourney.

    http://tinyurl.com/3anugn

    Here’s dazzling shot of her playing in the rain at the Indy 500, wearing an all-too-cute sun dress.

  264. UtilityMan November 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    You got that right BBB

    Plus she doesnt have one of thoose ** over a letter in her name!

    Jennifer the Jets will find a way to lose this game.I think Herm Edwards is there somewheres as guest coach fro the day.

  265. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    we need an edit button.

    that should read:

    I got to hand it to Brady (age 30), he had no problems dating someone older, too many guys don’t for various reasons.

  266. mel November 4th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    I think Ashley Judd is one of the loveliest people in the world. Giselle is 10x better looking than Bridget.

  267. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Eh, I don’t even think Brady’s that good looking.

    Brett Favre on the other hand…

  268. mel November 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Jennifer,

    Cutler or Jackson?

  269. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    I’m with you mel, there’s no mystery there for me.

  270. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    Cutler. I couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t putting up any yards!! :( MY Entire Team SUcks!! I am going to lose this week big.

  271. mel November 4th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    Rebecca,

    That’s some optimism you got there! You’ve convinced yourself that Favre is better looking than Brady. lol.

    You won’t see Brady doing Armani print ads, but he does have the total package. And the chin is very cute. His one flaw is his teeth.

  272. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    I am down 74 to 59. All my players are playing. They still have 6 players who still have to play.

  273. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    mel-

    Brady is doing ads for Tom Ford and for some cologne. I’m a magazine hound (books are tooo long). Jeter and Damon modeled in full page ads in this month’s Men’s Health.

  274. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    I like Ashley Judd but Gisele is way too skinny IMO. Almost man-ish. Bridget meanwhile was far prettier than even any of the regulars on Sex and the City! But Tom Brady made the same bad decision Mr. Big did!

    As far as cute QBs go? Let’s just say I miss clean-shaven Jake Plummer! But I am a Jason Taylor girl all the way anyway.

  275. mel November 4th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Dr. Acula,

    I’m not familiar with Tom Ford. Do the ads show a lot of skin?

  276. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    Mel-

    here’ ya go.

    http://tinyurl.com/2ft8ro

    scroll down.

  277. Ted November 4th, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    Arod sincerely believes that he is bigger than the Game.

    because of his self centered nature he will only accomplish individual goals. He is not an O.Neil or a Jeter, he can not make those around him better. He is not a winner, good luck and good riddance.

  278. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    mel: You’ve never seen my teeth.

  279. whoa November 4th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    “Mike NYY November 4th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    Okay, on Boras

    Leave him alone. His job is to get his clients the best deal possible. Call him greedy? He`s no greedier than any of the players or owners, or anyone else in baseball”

    Huh? The man refused to recommend that his client meet with the team that rescued him from Texas, and then he announced his decision to opt out in the middle of the World Series.

    You may believe in a world where personal responsibility doesn’t exist, most of, however don’t.

  280. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    Damit he is putting the ball in their hands and they can’t hold!

  281. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    This is kind of annoying.

    Jets, if you’re gonna win, please win. If you’re gonna lose, please lose.

  282. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    Well what a shock!! THEY LOST!! 1-15 here we come!

  283. J-Dawg November 4th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    Just an observation here, but Adrian Peterson is scary. He could be one of the all-time great running backs if he stays healthy. He has absolutely killed the Chargers today.

  284. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    For those that care, Alex is so concerned about his contract situation that he traveled to Nassau.
    http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N113AR

  285. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    Jennifer:

    We’ve done it once, we can do it again!

    It’s all for the draft picks!

  286. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    Only problem is we won’t even get the first, second. But the third!! or Maybe the 4th!! UGH

  287. iYankees November 4th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    This was a great read Pete. I read an article by Mike Lupica at the daily news that seemed to be directly contradicting with your entry. It was pretty interesting, so I wrote about it in my blog (www.thebronxzoo.wordpress.com). Check it out if anyone’s interested (it’s all Yankee stuff).

  288. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 5:31 pm

    No-Rod has to be out of the country and hemisphere, the news hounds have not even had one snapshot of him since before the night of infamy. He’s holed up somewhere having nightmares trying to figure out where he’ll keep all his money.

  289. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    Colts up 3-0!

  290. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    Sorry Pete but….GO COLTS!!!

  291. J-Dawg November 4th, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    The Colts would only have a one game lead in the AFC South if they lose today. My Titans aren’t going away!

  292. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....on_ye.html

    This guy needs to re-enter the 21st century and shave that stach’. I don’t even know how to reply to his totally anti Yankee article.

  293. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    I don’t think Andy has asked for the family plan, it’s just Hank saying the team will be willing to let him have more family time if he needs. Even if Andy asked I wouldn’t worry at all. He’s such a team player, has such strong will to win and work ethics, I trust him to know how to balance and not compromise his performance.

    I saw Giselle on the street once, she had a killer body, gorgeous hair but a man face.

    I love Brett Favre as an athlete but his face looks like a frog.

    I know Arod has been laying low but wonder if he’s talked to Cano and Melky and other “some of the most courageous group of guys I’ve ever played with” yet. Couple days ago Robbie said he hasn’t heard from Arod and heard the opt out news from someone else. Some reporters (Pete, may be you?) should find a way to ask these guys if anyone has heard from him. They don’t need to disclose what was discussed but if still no one has heard from him then I think it’s good sign that he’s in fact a phony and doesn’t give a crap.

  294. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    Did someone already post this from Foxsports.com?

    “The Red Sox probably could have locked up Lowell with a three-year, $40 million offer, oh, a month ago. Now there are rumors circulating that the Yankees are prepared to offer as much as $70 million over five years, a deal that the Red Sox wouldn’t — and shouldn’t — match. Of course the illogic of such an overpriced offer wouldn’t make it any easier for Red Sox fans to watch their newly minted postseason hero change allegiances.”

  295. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 6:35 pm

    God I hope that isn’t true. I’ve seen his splits home/away. Away are bad. He is a product of Fenway.

  296. Master Wangkee November 4th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    hmmmmmmmmmm. I think you’re right Peter.

  297. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    Lowell’s spray chart is reason for the Yankees not to sign him. He’s perfect for Fenway, but not for Yankee Stadium.

  298. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    Rebecca where can I find that?

  299. Terry in N.H. November 4th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    Adrian Peterson got me 57 pts today.. Nice!!

  300. Bob from NJ November 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    I agree with the sentiment, but obviously no one else talks about their contract as much as A Rod because: 1) The media loves writing about it and asking him questions about it and 2) His contract was historic.

    Is it a surprise that only A Rod talks about being the highest paid player in the league? Why would anyone else talk about this? Think a bit, it isn’t hard.

  301. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    Colts are shutting down Tom Brady = 59 paltry yards

  302. Phil - 27 in '08 November 4th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    Joe Crede, 8 years:
    BA SLG OBP OPS+
    .259 .305 .446 92

    Johnny Damon, 13 years:
    BA SLG OBP OPS+
    .288 .353 .433 102

    Defensively, both are about average when comparing their career RF vs. the league RFs.

  303. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    Jennifer:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/indiv.....statType=1

    Man, if Indianapolis holds on to this lead, they might become my second favorite football team!

  304. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    I haven’t seen this much details posted (all I heard was Cash fell asleep reading to his son), it’s from NYTimes:

    ““I was reading my son a story, and I fell asleep,” Cashman said. “My cellphone was in another room, and my wife comes in and tells me it’s ringing off the hook. I had 15 to 20 messages, mostly media calls about Jon Heyman’s SI.com column. When I got up, it was about 10:30. I found that I had a phone message from Scott at 9:32 and an e-mail from him at 9:42.”

    The phone messages from reporters, Cashman said, preceded Boras’s message.

    “If he sent this to the New York Yankees and he was the only one aware of it, it’s pretty obvious where it came from,” Cashman said of the disclosure.

    Boras’s reaction to the suggestion that he disclosed the opt-out was basically “Who, me?” To hear him tell it in one of his interviews, the news materialized out of thin air. (“Somehow during the course of that day the story broke.”)

    In a telephone interview Thursday night, Boras said he didn’t know if the Yankees leaked the story; they say they did not.

    “I’ve asked this question myself,” he said. “I don’t have an answer. I’ve been told it was unnamed sources.”

    Did he give the story to

    SI.com?

    “No,” Boras said. “Jon Heyman called me about it. I don’t know how he found out about it. I asked the same questions that you’re asking.””

  305. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    “Joe Crede, 8 years:
    BA SLG OBP OPS+
    .259 .305 .446 92″

    The question is whether one thinks that 06 Crede was a fluke. He actually also hit well against lefties in 05. If the Yankees think his back is good to go, then I think a Betemit/Crede platoon at 3B could be a good idea. Betemit has good power from the left side. Wouldn’t take a lot of walks, but they’d probably pop 25 HRs. If we could get a solid righty bat at 1B as well, that’d have us sitting pretty, I think.

  306. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    Dee-

    Boras is full of it. Buster Olney said in no uncertain terms, SI was informed of the decision before Cashman.

  307. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    And NYT continues to bring up possibility of tampering:

    “Unless he received a pre-opt-out commitment from another team, that is, unless someone tampered with Rodriguez — and what a shock that would be — Boras was very likely calling the Yankees’ bluff in their stated position that they would not seek to sign Rodriguez if he opted out.”

  308. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    Re: Lowell’s spray chart:

    Yeah, he basically took advantage of Fenway. A lot. I’d be REALLY worried about how he’d perform playing 81 games at the stadium. I really hope the Yanks are lending credence to that data. I know they HAVE it, but I hope it’s making them very skeptical. Guy’s a great glove, though, but so is Crede if he’s healthy.

    If they’re going to trade Damon for Crede, I kind of hope they send along money and get something else too. I mean…one year of a guy who’s coming off surgery? Damon, while aging, is worth more than that, I would think.

  309. Rocco November 4th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    GO COLTS!!!!!!

  310. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    Thanks Doc.

    You have to wonder what Arod thinks of Boras. Sure Boras works for Arod and is taking the fall on stuff like this for him. But I would be very uneasy trusting someone to guide my future with hundreds of millions at stake if I know he’s capable of lying like that in public without blinking.

  311. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

    If the Yankees pursued the tampering allegations, could it potentially be a bigger story than the ‘roids?

  312. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    Rebecca –

    I think all things being equal, roids is more scandalous than tampering, but if Yankees and Arod are involved then it’s bigger news than the presidential election:-)

    If Arod was involved in the Mitchell Report (I highly doubt it) AND in tampering then it’s almost as big as Monica Lewinsky.

  313. Phil - 27 in '08 November 4th, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    Rebecca, it would be a big story in NY and for the fans…but it is so difficult to prove, it just might be all smoke and no fire. Just like the JD Drew incident between Boston and LA.

  314. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 8:08 pm

    Dee–Oh man, that’d make a crazy winter, wouldn’t it?

    Phil–Mm, probably, but unlike the Dodgers, I can NOT imagine the Yanks being quiet about it, if it was to happen…

  315. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 8:12 pm

    Stupid Patriots

  316. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    The colts suck!! UGH!!! I hate the pats!

  317. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    I agree Yanks would handle it differently than the Dodgers/Drew case.

    For one thing, Bud Selig is now livid and reports are his office is looking into things.

    For another, we have Hank! Hank is seriously funny but I wouldn’t want to cross him!

  318. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    Has Bud Selig gone on record saying anything?

  319. mel November 4th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    The best thing to do is to let all the talking heads talk about possible tampering. Let it grow into a big legend. 20 years from now, it’ll be how “the Los Angeles Angels of Sacramento” stole A-rod from the Yankees.

  320. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 8:23 pm

    Belicheat is an ahole, did you see what he just did at midfield. I HATE THAT TEAM!!

  321. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    My dislike of the Patriots just increased tenfold.

  322. mel November 4th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    WhooHoo! Great win to overcome 3 huge BS pass interference calls.

  323. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    what did belicheat do?

  324. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    He was very cold at midfield.

  325. mel November 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    I hope that the Yankees don’t make a stink. It would be an indication that they even care about what A-Team does.

  326. jk November 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    Pats did not cover the spread.

  327. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    mel–But there is the question of the $31 million.

  328. mel November 4th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Rebecca,

    What about it? I thought the Rangers would kick in $21M over the next 3 years toward his salary and the other $9M was deferred salary.

    Yankees are out of the picture, so they owe nothing, and lose nothing, right?

    Am I missing something?

  329. ... November 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Change time. It’s supposed to be one hour back.

  330. Dave November 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    MLBTRADERUMORS Reports:

    Does anyone like the idea of Jonny damon plus cash for Joe crede. I feel like damon is better than crede altho we do need a third baseman and we dont need another dh, the whitesox should be paying us for that deal. Crede has power but his obp is horrid – usually about ten points above his batting average. Doesnt seem to me like that would be a good fit for us.

    Another brilliant move they bring up is Ian Kennedy for edwin encarnacion. Yea right! We could prolly throw melky in that deal and a minor league prospect and cash and try to get miguel cabrera. Encarnacion is less than average.

  331. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    I don’t want to see any of our pitchers traded!!

  332. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Rebecca – no Selig never said anything on the tampering. just said the WS opt out was selfish. ESPN and NYT have been saying “sources says” his office is looking into tampering.

  333. Bor-Rod = A-@$$ November 4th, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    “Belicheat is an ahole, did you see what he just did at midfield. I HATE THAT TEAM!!”

    *What did he do ???*

  334. Rocco November 4th, 2007 at 9:14 pm

    what did he do?

  335. Yankee Fan in Boston November 4th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    Pete — good point in your post — I have been saying that myself up here. What I don’t think people get is that it is part of Boras’s job to take that heat — he can (and should) be perceived as the evil one — A-Rod’s image is valuable, and it is much better for that duo to have Boras be blamed for this mess.

  336. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    mel–The Yankees don’t owe anything; they are owed the money from Texas, and they don’t get it now cos A-Rod has opted out.

  337. Master Wangkee November 4th, 2007 at 9:22 pm

    BOOOOBYE AROD

    BOOOOOBYE

    Enjoy your cakewalk in San Fran

  338. Johan the Great November 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    Can someone tell me if Eric Wordekemper made the Pinstripeplus Top 50 propsects? Thanks

  339. mel November 4th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    Rocco,

    I didn’t see it, but the broadcasters said something about it not being a very warm encounter or something.

    I heard that Dungy made some unkind remarks about Belicek before the game.

    This team deserves a lot of credit for not letting the officiating get to them. It was horrendous.

  340. mel November 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pm

    Rebecca,

    But doesn’t that $31M go to cover Alex’s salary?

    Now, they can save $48M over the next three years by not paying for Alex’s services. And you can not put a price on what they save by having Alex being someone else’s problem.

  341. Ducky Bent November 4th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    While I agree with Peter’s comments in theory – yes, the players are men, individuals, and should take responsibility for their own actions, with A-Rod I make a slight exception.

    Boras is literally A-Rod’s daddy; a father figure. A-Rod’s natural father abandoned him and Boras took him in at 17, so he has great influence on A-Rod’s decisions.

  342. LathamJoe November 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    Lowell’s Spray chart:
    Lowell’s spray chart is quite impressive at Fenway. So is Manny Ramirez’ spray chart for his power numbers…. so are most good right hand power hitters who are skilled enough and smart enough to take advantage of the Little League dimensions to the left of centerfield at Fenway!

    Lowell’s spray chart for Yankee Stadium is not bad, either.

    It’s a small sample size, but in 9 games/ (2007)at Yankee Stadium Lowell hit .324 BA/.378 OBP/.878 OPS with 1 Homer and 4 RBI. He’s a different hitter now than he was with Florida. He’s recognized the need to not pull everything and takes what is given to him. He’d make adjustments for playing 81 homegames at Yankee stadium, too,
    I think he’d do okay in a Yankee uniform – but not for 5 years!

  343. pat November 4th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

    Has Edwin Encarnacion for 3rd base been discussed? Rumor has it, the Yanks might be interested.

  344. LathamJoe November 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    I’m a Giants Fan, but ya gotta give props to Brady and the Patriots…down 10…..hostile environment…. offense shut down for most of the game…….. Brady engineers two quick drives to take the lead. Then the Pats “D” sacks and causes the vaunted Manning to fumble….Ouch!

  345. right November 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    A-Rod did not turn his back to the Yankees. He declared for free agency. The Yankees have chosen not to negotiate with him. If they really wanted him, he’d be back. He would be very open to returning to the Yankees.

    Think about this: Igawa’s posting fee was more than the remaining money Texas would have paid on A-Rod’s 3 years if he did not opt out. So Cashman isn’t fooling anybody by saying that losing the Texas money makes A-Rod unaffordable, because 20 to 30 million is peanuts to the Yankees. What does possibly him unaffordable (to the Yankees) is some team willing to give him a 300 million dollar contract. The Yankees were not willing to get to even 250 million apparently, and that is certainly reasonable on their part as well. Neither party is wrong here. But A-Rod is not the bad guy you make him out to be. The TIMING of the opt-out was handled was very awkwardly and makes him look like an idiot, but the FACT that he opted out does not make him a bad guy. Anybody else would have if their current team was 50+ million behind the bid of what another team would be willing to commit to him.

    Would you really leave 50+ million on the table? That is a huge amount of money. Now if he ends up signing with a team for like 255 million then it would seem like his refusal to even hear the Yankee offer was unwarranted and could mean he didn’t want to be a Yankee. But I doubt Boras would have gone through with the opt-out so quickly unless he knows that some team is willing to give Alex significantly more money than the Yankees were willing to commit to him.

  346. wow November 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    “Boras is literally A-Rod’s daddy”

    No he is not. ARod’s biological father is literally A-Rod’s dad.

    The general misuse of the word “literally” is amazing. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp.

  347. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    I’m not really a fan of the Patriots OR the Colts. But that was a damn good game.

  348. Ducky Bent November 4th, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    Was meant to be “literally A-Rod’s father figure.” I do not need a grammar lesson from you. So eff off. Literally.

  349. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    “He declared for free agency.”

    He declared free agency without even LISTENING to an opening offer. Without even LISTENING to an offer that would have allowed the Yankees to continue to get the subsidy from the Rangers. If they have to pay that themselves, it goes against the tax, so the 7 mil per becomes more like 10.

    The posting fee for Igawa was a one-time fee that isn’t taxed. That’s totally irrelevant to these discussions.

    Bottom line, if you’re “open to coming back” you don’t IGNORE personal phone calls from the ownership.

    Done. ARod does not want to be a Yankee. Fine. Let’s just stop talking about this. It’s so boring.

    Crede:

    If the Yanks send money, they should really get something else too. I mean…they’re getting a guy coming off an injury that has one year left on his deal.

  350. mel November 4th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    right,

    You’re right about the fact that Alex had the right to opt out. It’s business.

    And the Yankees had given notice a couple of months ago that if Alex opted out they would not “pursue” him in free agency. That’s business. In fact it’s their fudiciary responsibility to keep the Texas money in play.

    I think they saw enough of Alex to realize he’s a nice to have but not a luxury worth the asking price. The Yankees are the ones playing the hard line now so that pretty much tells you how they feel now. The last straw was probably Alex personally stonewalling the front office and ownership before he opted out.

    The only ones unhappy that the Yankees took their bat and glove home because they didn’t want to play is the A-team. The five or six teams that will go for him will get him for about $5 million less per year than if the Yankees were bidding if they were able to get him at all.

  351. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    ok, literally, everyone needs to calm down and stop being so ornery. No need to snap at each other.

  352. BBB November 4th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    I turned off the Pats/Colts game to watch my Miami Heat fail miserably yet again, so, inquiring minds want to know..what exactly DID Belicheck do at midfield?

    Meanwhile for my fellow Giants fans, is it just me or is watching this Cowboys/Eagles game a bit like watching Osama bin Laden vs Saddam Hussein? Can’t the field just open up and swallow both teams so neither one has to win?

  353. Ducky Bent November 4th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    Joe Crede??!! He of the lifetime .305 OBP?

    If Cashman goes after him, it’s yet another example of what separates him, a poor evaluator of MLB talent, from Theo. Ever notice the blatantly poor K/BB ratio of the pitchers Cashman goes after and/or winds up with? If you haven’t, take a peak.

  354. Adam November 4th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    This has nothing to do with the current topic. But check out this hysterical excerpt from a Time magazine article http://www.time.com/time/asia/.....atsui.html

    “Cynics call Matsui simpleminded, a workhorse without the brainpower to comprehend what all the attention really means. But Matsui responds by saying that he just wants to be a regular guy—albeit one who jokes that he now has five girlfriends at any one time. He drives a Chevy. He eats steak, has an occasional beer and likes to shoot the breeze with the security guards and maintenance personnel. And, of course, he likes to watch his much vaunted porno collection, tapes that he often trades with Japanese reporters. As one Japanese journalist put it, describing Matsui’s affinity for such unique Japanese cultural institutions like the no-panties shabu-shabu in Japan, “Matsui is a horny guy. All of us are horny, more or less. But Matsui doesn’t attempt to hide the fact.” Yet another win for the Japanese Everyman.”

  355. Ducky Bent November 4th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    Cool, Andrea. There’s just something about internet grammar police that I despise. They are especially repulsive if they are wrong and/or didn’t comprehend the sentence they are “correcting”.

  356. right November 4th, 2007 at 10:24 pm

    If Alex listened to the Yankees offer, and other teams got details on what the offer was, it would be used as the starting point for other teams to approach Alex with as well. But it was pretty clear the Yankees wouldn’t go over 30 million per year, or more than a 5 year extension (for a total of an 8 year commitment). So why listen to them when that would just have the effect of other GM’s also starting off with those baselines in mind? What if there is some insane GM who thinks ARod’s worth is 35 million per year, and for 10 years? It was clear that the Yankees would not go insanely overboard, so it was smart to not let them be the first to offer a price. That doesn’t mean he turned his back on them. They COULD match any insane offer from any other team.

  357. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Ducky Bent (haha, I had to go back and make sure I got that right): I’m not gonna lie, in “real life, I’m a bit of a grammar fiend, but it’s my nature as a student of literature and composition. But in conversation and other people’s comment posts, as long as I know what you’re talking about, it’s no big deal to me. As long as you get your point across, I’m not sure it should matter, really.

    People on this board have been kind of snippy lately, trying really hard to prove each other wrong, and it’s getting mean. Can’t we all just get along!?!

  358. mel November 4th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    right,

    That’s my point, they could do any number of things that Boras expected them to do. They could’ve gone back on their word, they could let anonymous sources say that the Yankees would love to have him back, they could call Tyler, Pete, and Mark and tell them “we’ll do whatever it takes to make Alex a Yankee for life”, they could top any offer that will be forthcoming.

    But they won’t. Put money on it. Hank’s said “goodbye”. Cashman’s said “that ship has sailed”. These are quotes printed in the media. Those are not things that an organization says when they’re trying to woo a free agent.

  359. wow November 4th, 2007 at 10:31 pm

    I’m sorry about being a jerk. My grammar is far from perfect and I don’t like grammar police any more than the next guy. I’m just in a cranky mood with some football results today. I have seen the word “literally” abused all over this blog in recent weeks, and that one just annoys the heck out of me more than any other, so I vented in an appropriate manner. My bad.

  360. right November 4th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    I agree with what you’re saying, Mel.

    But I also think that none of those points mean that A-Rod turned his back on the Yankees, which is what Pete said in the main post to this thread. It seems that Pete has it in for A-Rod. The guy won 2 MVP’s in 4 seasons. He certainly has issues handling his public perception. But the guy was the most valuable Yankee over the last 4 years and it annoys me that Pete does a 180 on him after praising him all year long. Just because he is trying to maximize his earnings doesn’t mean he is turning his back n the Yankees. I think both the Yankee front office and Alex did what’s right for themselves with their respective decisions and can’t be faulted for that.

  361. Ducky Bent November 4th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

    No problem, wow. I’m kind of cranky myself these days when I visit sports sites, considering what’s going on with the Yanks – first the elimination, then A-Rod, then the Sox winning it all, etc.

    My apologies as well for the way I responded.

    To Andrea, I hear ya. And, oh yeah, it *is* Ducky Bent; kinda tricky on the eyes. eh? lol.

  362. Andrea November 4th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    It is tricky! I had to make sure I was getting it right!

    I’m so glad you two kissed and made up, so to speak! Everyone’s been so GRRR at each other lately, it’s so frustrating!

  363. J-Dawg November 4th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    This has been a calm weekend for the Yankees as far as any news goes. This next week or two could be hectic, making this like a calm before the storm.

    I’m satisfied with the Colts loss, just because I’m a Titans fan. The Titans are now only one game behind the Colts in the AFC South.

  364. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    BBB, maybe you would like the field to open up and swallow the Cowboys so you don’t have to face them week.

  365. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    right,

    Sure Arod had every right to opt out, it was in his contract. And he has every right to get a better offer. The issue is that the whole thing’s been handled in such bad form.

    1. The WS opt out timing to upstage the game.

    2. Calling SI before Cashman.

    3. Blaming Mo, Po and Andy for the opt out.

    4. Not waiting the 10 days (well atually not even 1 day!)

    5. Professing his love for NY repeatedly and then didn’t even have the courtesy to take Hank, Hal and Cash’s calls. Fine if you don’t want to take a meeting, is it so hard to at least return calls and say “I appreciate your call and effort in bringing me back but we want to take a bit more time before taking any meeting”?

    6. And then lying about not leaking the opt-out to SI and implying that Cashman did.

    7. But the biggest issue of all, not showing any sign whatsoever that he actually wants to be a Yankee or have any allegiance to the Yankees after wearing the uniform and being paid the highest salary in baseball by the team for 4 years.

    There at least SEVEN reasons why the Yanks are justified to be upset with him and to treat his free agency differently than other FA. And I managed to do that without even including the Texas money.

    And if you think his turning the meeting down was simply fair negotiation tactics to not let the Yankees deflates his offers from other teams… well, look at how well it worked out for him. Now the richest team in the league has declared to pull out, how could it be helping his asking price??

  366. mel November 4th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    right,

    I see your points. But don’t you believe that Alex opted out and refused to take calls because he felt that the Yankees would still be in play? It’s kind of rich that when the clock struck midnight the castle doors were closed.

    I cannot speak for Pete, but I feel that Alex deserves an Oscar. From his little bombshell about Jeter in the Spring to the best season in history to his proclamations about how he felt about New York. I really felt like this was it, he finally feels at home. He’s finally a true Yankee.

    But he opted out before the end of the world series, meaning that he wasn’t even willing to negotiate an extension where he could’ve named any price he wanted. I believe that at that point they would offer him a king’s ransom. He may have “heard” that the Yankees only wanted to do a five year extension, but he didn’t officially hear it from the Yankees because he didn’t give them a chance.

    So actually that’s 3 things he did, he did not take calls, he opted out, and he didn’t give the Yankees a chance to negotiate by opting out before the 10-day window.

  367. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 10:58 pm

    My Japanese friend told me pornography is very acceptable in mainstream culture in Japan, especially among successful men. He said there are vending machines in train stations that sell soda, snacks and porn.

  368. mel November 4th, 2007 at 10:59 pm

    Yeah, it’s not like he talks to kids on MySpace.

  369. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 4th, 2007 at 11:04 pm

    Nothing wrong with porn when it’s consenting adults.

    And damn it, now I want sushi.

  370. (Archimedes) November 4th, 2007 at 11:04 pm

    For godssake, put a new poster up already Dumbo.

  371. Dr. Acula November 4th, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    My Japanese friend told me pornography is very acceptable in mainstream culture in Japan, especially among successful men. He said there are vending machines in train stations that sell soda, snacks and porn.

    that’s no different than every hotel and cable-box in the country.

  372. right November 4th, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    I think that Alex was going to opt out regardless of whether or not he heard the Yankees offer. The fact that Cashman’s hard stance of “We will not pursue Alex if he opts out” strongly implies that the Yankees had a limit in mind. They wouldn’t just give him a king’s ransom. They had a set idea in their mind of Alex’s worth to the team, and if he opted out then that would be violated. So I disagree with the idea that he could name any price he wanted and the Yankees would pay it. If I am wrong about that, then of course his opt out would mean that he didn’t really want to be a Yankee. But I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Yankee made it clear from the beginning of the year that Alex’s value had a limit to them.

    I think Alex wanted both to be a Yankee and also maximize his earnings. The earnings clearly had a higher priority for him, but I don’t think that means he turned his back on the Yankees.

  373. Bryant November 4th, 2007 at 11:12 pm

    The following got me thinking. While Yankees took issue with A-Rod opting out without notice, has anyone seen them say anything about the timing coming during a WS game?

    Bill Madden, NY Daily News 11/4/07

    “When it came to upstaging the World Series, nobody was a bigger spoil sport than George Steinbrenner who, in the absence of the Yankees’ participation, could always be counted on to grab the back pages by firing a manager or making a trade. It was because of Steinbrenner that Bud Selig established the moratorium on making announcements during the Series.”

  374. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 11:13 pm

    Hey Archimedes, lighten up pal, the server is working great, you can pretty much say what you want here, and it’s all possible because of the person you referred to as “dumbo”.

  375. mel November 4th, 2007 at 11:15 pm

    right,

    If Alex wanted to be a Yankee, then he grossly miscalculated how his actions would affect the Yankees.

    I agree with you though, they gave Alex the Torre treatment. Which tells you how much they want Alex back.

  376. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 11:21 pm

    “Nothing wrong with porn when it’s consenting adults.”

    “that’s no different than every hotel and cable-box in the country.”

    Agree with both. My point was that Matsui’s porn love and his not “attempting to hide the fact” as the article said is simply part of his culture, no biggie.

  377. SmallPopo November 4th, 2007 at 11:26 pm

    my guess is that people are just backlashing at alex since he is, unfairly, seen as the face of the yankees failure to win a title in the last four years. and now that its clear he wont be back next year people are dumping all over him as a traitor

    but how about this scenario. everyone believes that jorge posada wants to stay a yankee. but guess what if the mets offer him a blowaway five year eighty million dollar contract then he will be a met. but does that mean he dont want to be a yankee? not at all. and yankee fans would never say about the beloved jorge that he turned his back on the team. they would say that the yankees were the bad ones for letting him go. jorge has more goodwill with the fans than alex and so the reactions would be very diferent.

  378. Dee November 4th, 2007 at 11:27 pm

    OK enough Arod talk for me in one day. Heading to bed now and I better not see him in my dreams, or worse, see Boras!

    Night everyone.

  379. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 11:35 pm

    “Joe Crede??!! He of the lifetime .305 OBP?”

    Wow, do you actually read people’s points, or does the word “Crede” fill you with such blind anger that you spew your bile all over your keyboard in your haste to tell us how stupid we are.

    First of all, OBP is not the be-all and end-all. OPS is a much more useful indicator. Crede had an OPS over .800 against lefties in both of his last two healthy seasons. Platooning him with Betemit could provide perfectly acceptable production for, say, the 7 hole in the lineup while providing solid D (Crede is very good, Betemit is tolerable).

    Second of all, people have REPEATEDLY stated that it depends on whether the Yanks think that 05-06 Crede is the real Crede or not, and whether they think he’s healthy after the surgery. Minky was. No reason Crede can’t be.

    Given that Miguel Cabrera will cost a lot of talent, is lazy, and has basically turned himself into a 1B at this point…what are the other options?

    Edwin Encarnacion was mentioned…he looks like a more consistent hitter, but a worse fielder. And he’s younger, so likely more costly in trade. Since he’d probably put up an OPS of 800+ all by himself, Betemit would likely be relegated to a full-time bench player, a role in which he has not excelled. So, maybe they’d move him. Ok, that’s an interesting thing to debate.

    “Ever notice the blatantly poor K/BB ratio of the pitchers Cashman goes after and/or winds up with? If you haven’t, take a peak”

    Yeah, Kei Igawa’s ~4:1 K:BB ratio in Japan was REALLY horrible. Who else are you talking about? The young guns? Pavano’s was bad, yes, but Saint Theo was going to give him 4/40 just like the Yanks did. Randy? Well, the Boss ordered Cash to make that trade. What was Brian supposed to do?

  380. whozat November 4th, 2007 at 11:39 pm

    “everyone believes that jorge posada wants to stay a yankee.”

    Biggest differences:

    1) Jorge didn’t say “You want me? Well, let’s burn this 21 mil over the next three years, and then we can start talking money.”

    2) Jorge would have happily discussed an extension while he was still under contract.

    3) Jorge hasn’t been expounding on how much he wants to stay. He’s said that he’d like to stay, but that he kind of wants to test the waters.

    It’s the disingenuous nature of ARod that really gets me. If he intended to opt out the whole time, FINE, don’t keep kvelling about how much you love NY now. Play it closer to the vest and just keep saying “I love my teammates, we’re focusing on winning, and I’ll worry about all that stuff later.” Don’t tell us these stories about how you’re close with Joe now, and how it’d feel weird to play anywhere else.

  381. gayle November 4th, 2007 at 11:42 pm

    I am going to throw out a theory that I have heard before. There is the reference to players playing better in their walk year. I forget the actual percentage but what if Alex knew from the start that he was going to opt out so in his mind he was free and clear this year, it was going to be his last thuis he was playing like any other free agent in a walk year, thus the best year as a Yankee?? It still makes all of the nonsense he said during he year lame but??

    I will also say that the same could be said of Jorge (not that he is going to leave) but that the offensive numbers go up in a walk year.

  382. mel November 4th, 2007 at 11:43 pm

    Smallpopo,

    You’re probably right, but there’s a small population here that never really liked Alex. The drama and his antics weren’t any fun. As Girardi said, “We’ll definitely miss those 54 homeruns and 155 RBI’s” but that’s about it. He never said anything about wanting him back.

    I was amazed at this past season and hoped he’d come back because he was finally comfortable being a Yankee. But that goodwill from the fans is gone and it’s probably because there wasn’t very much there in the first place.

    Oh, and some of us have never said anything about Alex’s postseason numbers. We know that it takes more than one guy to win as well as lose.

  383. andruw jones November 4th, 2007 at 11:44 pm

    I wish I got the memo on how a walk year increases performance!

  384. ThatWasMe November 4th, 2007 at 11:50 pm

    Kind of disagree with you Mel and think that the fans feel like they as well as the NY Yankees have been rejected. All his imperfections and foibles considered, he was ours, make no mistake about it, we embraced him as one of our own. But in the end he rejected us, didn’t meet with the team just kind of walked away, hasn’t spoken there is not yet closure for the fans. Just what is it you expect?

  385. Darth Waiter November 4th, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    ARods opt out was probably inevitable. He had one of the greatest seaons ever and is a Boras client. So opting for free agency is the most logical choice given that situation. I wonder how everyone would have reacted if ARod actually did meet with the Yankees, and waited till the very end of the deadline, and then still opted out. People would still be furious and say he turned his back. So I would say that the fact that he didn’t negotiate with them and opted out right away is just an excuse people use to yell at him when in fact many of them they would be complaining even if he handled things “the right way”. In the end, it is the opt out that annoys people even though they say it’s the other stuff like not returning calls or meeting with Cash.

  386. mel November 4th, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    ThatWasMe,

    The fans booed A-rod lustily when he failed. Then they feel rejected when he leaves in a walk-year?

    I think SmallPopo was saying that we’re being petty jealous and bitter because he opted out. I know that I’m not.

    Ask yourself if you would welcome Alex back. I wouldn’t. And it’s not because he jilted the Yankees, it’s because I feel that we’re better off without him.

  387. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 12:09 am

    How can you think the Yankees would be better off without him? Definitely not in the short-term. If the compensation picks we get for him turn into something special then down the line that could be more valuable to the team than ARods value would be many years from now. As for the argument that they can reuse his money elsewhere, I don’t think the Yankees plan on spending much money anyway on free agents in the next few years. We have a lot of young pitching and don’t really need to break the bank for Santana or Sabathia next offseason assuming those guys are free agents then. The most expensive thing will be re-signing Rivera and Posada this offseason. But if we kept ARod do you think that wouldn’t have gotten done? I don’t think it wouldn’t have affect their cases one bit. So who would the Yankees even be soending this saved money on that they wouldn’t have spent it on if ARod stayed? Plus after 2008 Farnsworth/Pavano/Giambi/MUssina/Pettitte/Abreu come off the payroll so there’s a boatload of money right there to spend. I can’t see how they are better at least in the next 3 or 4 years without ARod.

  388. Dr. Acula November 5th, 2007 at 12:10 am

    Agree with both. My point was that Matsui’s porn love and his not “attempting to hide the fact” as the article said is simply part of his culture, no biggie.

    That’s true, lots of hang-up here. Not simply porn, but objections extend to nude marble statues.

  389. ray November 5th, 2007 at 12:10 am

    Dr. Acula
    November 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
    Colts are shutting down Tom Brady = 59 paltry yards

    Perhaps someone got a little enthusiastic and opened their mouth a bit too soon!

  390. mel November 5th, 2007 at 12:21 am

    Darth,

    I feel they’re better off without him because he garners a LOT of attention and is a distraction within the club. It also is my personal opinion that he’s not very well liked within the clubhouse. When put on the spot, he can only name one teammate who’s a friend?

    It’s also my opinion that the Yankees also feel they’re better off without Alex. Otherwise they would participate in free agency and get him back in pinstripes, especially if there’s any possibility that Alex could end up playing for a division rival. The lost $21M is a drop in the bucket for the Yankees. If they really wanted him back, they’d definitely throw open the vault to try to lure him back.

    These are all my opinions, of course. The fact is that he’s no longer a Yankee. Both parties have gone too far down the road to turn back.

  391. Brandon (I want Arod back but fire Boras first) November 5th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    I can’t believe Bellichick continues to find away to win

    and I have to say to say it’s amazing Pete you feel Boras has absolutely nothing to do w/ this, I can name you a bunch of players he’s tried to misguide or has misguided but sure let it all go on Alex, I think this is when the press is 100 % right, this is Scott Boras’s doing.

  392. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 5th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    For you A-Rod defenders:

    Who do you want hitting for your team in the ninth inning of game five of the World Series with two out and your team down by two?

    Alex Rodriguez or Scott Brosius?

    I know who I’d choose…

  393. ThatWasMe November 5th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    Mel, I do believe down the road we will be better. That being said, Rodriquez wanted to come here and to do so he changed positions, He did say more than once this year how much he loved NY, He sure fooled me, I think that the fans have a right to feel rejected and I don’t buy the booing argument, Rodriquez is a big boy, not a rookie. Ted Williams was booed in Fenway, Roger Maris was booed, his hair fell out in clumps, Jackie Robinson and Hank greenberg were booed, Jackie because he was black, Hank because was Jewish, there was no free angency in those days, you just ignored it, it has alway been part of the game, today it’s easier to escape it but it’s not an excuse to leave.

  394. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    Ok mel that’s fair enough.

    I guess I just personally think that things like being disliked and a distraction are overrated when it comes to being a winning baseball team. I think that once the game begins those factors go away since everyone is so intense and wants to win the game. If the Yankees won the world title this year but ARod still opted out then I’m not sure that anybody would be talking about things like distractions and clubhouse chemistry and how it hurt the team so they’re better off without him. It definitely didn’t hurt them during the regular season over the last 4 seasons. As for the postseason even though they haven’t won I blame it more on 2 terrible starts from Wang in 2007, JOhnson/Wright in 2006, and Mussina/Johnson in 2005. Ok Im getting off topic actually since you didnt say anything about him being why they lose in October. But anyway, I just personally think that a guy that can hit 40+ HRs and is a hitting machine is really beneficial to the team, even with these antics of his. Just look at Manny! And ARod provides fewer distractions than that guy, with better production.

  395. Brandon (I want Arod back but fire Boras first) November 5th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Rebecca, ofcourse it would be Brosious now who would you want leading you through a season w/ mediocore starting pitching Brosius or Arod ? :D

  396. Bryant November 5th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    The same Yankee management who refused to negotiate with Joe Torre somehow feels wronged because Alex Rodriguez didn’t want to negotiate with them. If Brian Cashman wants me to believe that they really wanted Torre to be Yankee manager, I guess the same logic would hold true that Alex Rodriguez really wants to be a Yankee.

  397. mel November 5th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    ThatWasMe,

    I was using the booing card because it’s funny how people think that the fans feel rejected when they were booing Alex a year ago. I was trying to avoid using the hyprocrite word.

  398. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    I’d want ARod over Brosius. Scott was like a .230 hitter in October. If we had good enough pitching to keep the Cleveland Game 4 to within 1 or 2 runs (like we did in the Arizona series) then ARod or Abreu’s “meaingless” homers might have turned them into heroes, just like Scott’s blast did for him. But Alex is clearly superior to brosius as a hitter. And Brosius’s HR rate in October wasn’t any different from his Hr rate in the regular season. He just happened to have like 200 more October at-bats than ARod. If ARod caught up to him in AB’s he would have some memorable moments as well.

    Look I know Alex has been disappointing as a yankee in the postseason, but I’d still take him as the guy at the plate over just about any non-Pujols player in baseball right now.

  399. Bryant November 5th, 2007 at 12:36 am

    Rebecca

    Miguel Cairo. He had a better postseason average than both of them.

  400. mel November 5th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    Darth,

    You can’t compare Manny and A-rod, they play in opposite seasons. A-rod plays the regular and Manny plays in the post.

  401. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    That shows exactly why we shouldn’t judge these things on small sample sizes!

  402. Back Bay Yankee November 5th, 2007 at 12:39 am

    Also, bidding for A-Rod at the last minute is the MLB equivalent of eBay sniping, which is hilarious.

  403. ThatWasMe November 5th, 2007 at 12:41 am

    Mel, I kind of think the booing fans were in a small minority and also that most Yankee fans were aghast when they heard it. I’ve never booed any player. I also think if that is the only reason Rodriquez is leaving NY he will never succeed anywhere, it’s a bogus excuse. It’s money, hard as it is to believe, that’s what it is all about. We have brave kids dying daily in 140 degree heat just to protect us so we can come here and talk about baseball, let’s be real.

  404. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 12:42 am

    So would you also seriously take Brosius in a do-or-die at-bat over ARod??? Think about it. ARod is the clear choice.

  405. Brandon (I want Arod back but fire Boras first) November 5th, 2007 at 12:45 am

    Darth Waiter, oh snap !!!! finally someone made sense. I agree 100 %, now lets take this to consideration in Brosius 4 yrs. here in NY in the Division series he was a .167 (9 for 54 AB) hitter w/ 6 RBI, if he were to do that in the 4 yrs. now , Brosius wouldn’t be a hero everyone would be calling for the next replacement. AND I LOVE SCOTTY BUT GIVE ME A BREAK

  406. Back Bay Yankee November 5th, 2007 at 12:45 am

    Howdy,

    I’m crossposting a comment from riveraveblues on this topic which will take up several comments because it’s so freakin’ long. My previous comment was in reference to this post. Please bear with me.

    I think it’s been fairly well established that Boras does not lack for audacity, and that A-Rod is possessed of a certain psychological fragility, whether it manifests as advanced choke-itis in stressful situations or letting the press get under his skin. Unfortunately, deduction is impossible. It’s impossible both for reasons of access and because neither party has any interest in giving the media or the blogosphere any actual information. So, with that very big caveat in mind, let me continue.

    The image of Boras as evil puppet master and A-Rod as his $250m mannequin is incorrect, as is Abraham’s retelling with Boras as Jeeves to A-Rod’s imperious, money-conscious Master of the House. Let me put forward my version of the classic baseball opera, Boras and Rodriguez (doesn’t it just sound like it needs a libretto?):

  407. Back Bay Yankee November 5th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    The image of Boras as evil puppet master and A-Rod as his $250m mannequin is incorrect, as is Abraham’s retelling with Boras as Jeeves to A-Rod’s imperious, money-conscious Master of the House. Let me put forward my version of the classic baseball opera, Boras and Rodriguez (doesn’t it just sound like it needs a libretto?):

  408. Back Bay Yankee November 5th, 2007 at 12:48 am

    I give up. I’ve been trying to cross-post my thoughts on this issue. They’re too long, no matter how I chop them up. Check them out here (they’re really long, but good, I think):

    http://riveraveblues.com/2007/...../#comments

  409. Back Bay Yankee November 5th, 2007 at 12:51 am

    Let me also suggest we, as a community, give serious thought to composing my suggested baseball-opera: Boras and Rodriguez. We can give A-Rod a countertenor part to mollify the angry fans (countertenors are the highest, girliest male voices).

  410. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 5th, 2007 at 1:00 am

    Miguel Cairo has a soft spot in all our hearts, doesn’t he?

  411. Brandon (I want Arod back but fire Boras first) November 5th, 2007 at 1:03 am

    sorry mines is cold as a cube :(

  412. Brandon (I want Arod back but fire Boras first) November 5th, 2007 at 1:09 am

    To the I wish Sott Brosius was my 3B fan club (I love Scotty)

    I’m just trying to picture Scott swinging vs Fausto Carmona and CC Sabathia and K-Rod and Joel Zumaya or Justin Verlander, yeh guys I mean can these pitchers get a little more credit unless your saying Sum Dum Kim and Trevor Hoffman (aka the best “closer” for other teams) & Hitcock are 1000% in a different league then them

    IDK just a thought you know

  413. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 1:09 am

    Anybody here ever read FireJoeMorgan.com? They rip bad sports journalism, and I’d say that 99% of their topics are about baseball. It is really funny because they are so right. Ufortunately they are Boston fans, but that doesn’t usually affect their writing. Although if you look in their Glossary you will see what they really think about the phrase True Yankee. Also, check out their archives, linked at the bottom of the page, specifically the October of 2006 and 2005. It’s great to see how stupid these sportswriters are.

    Anyway, those guys are great and I recommend that blog to anybody who wants to wake up from a world where people think that David Eckstein and Darin Erstad are the greatest ingredients to a winning team.

  414. Brandon (I want Arod back but fire Boras first) November 5th, 2007 at 1:10 am

    I’m still trying to figure how every team Kenny Lofton goes to makes the playoffs ..

  415. Darth Waiter November 5th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    haha, yeah me too…

  416. Ducky Bent November 5th, 2007 at 1:56 am

    “Yeah, Kei Igawa’s ~4:1 K:BB ratio in Japan was REALLY horrible. Who else are you talking about? The young guns? Pavano’s was bad, yes, but Saint Theo was going to give him 4/40 just like the Yanks did. Randy? Well, the Boss ordered Cash to make that trade. What was Brian supposed to do?”

    Lets take a look at some of the pitchers acquired by the Yanks that are attributed to Cashman and then I’ll give a few ratios.

    1. Pavano. 2. Mussina’s new contract. 3. Acevedo 6. Weaver. 7. Brown. 8. Javy Vasquez. 9. Myer. 10. Ponson
    11. Heredia K/BB 1.51
    12. Erickson 1.45
    13. Chacon 1.30
    14. Villone 1.48
    15. Small 1.24

    Sure, anyone can say, “Well Player A was wanted by the Sox too” or “Player B was the right choice at the time” or “Player C was obtained because there was nothing else out there” yadda yadda. But, that is a lame excuse. A GM is judged by the team’s performance, NOT what looked right at the time. Otherwise ALL GM’s would be perfect in your eyes.

    It’s obvious that Cashman is a huge part of the problem. For anybody to label him a genius because he doesn’t trade prospects (that should actually be credited to Oppenheimer) is silly. Many of Cashman’s trades and signings have been questionable at best.

    With a 200 mil budget to play with, Cashman has failed badly, imo.

  417. Ducky Bent November 5th, 2007 at 1:58 am

    I forgot to add that waste of money, Igawa to the above list. Actually, I left out a lot of stiffs that Cashman signed or traded for, and that’s not including the bench, offense and defense.

  418. Big Dad in CT (Darth Daddy) November 5th, 2007 at 3:34 am

    funny enough, saw something on Yahoo about the team that Pay-rod would reaaaaallllyyyyy like to play for…

    “If Alex Rodriguez could handpick the team he plays for, Boston might well be No. 1 on his list. According to a source who has talked to Rodriguez recently, he’d love to play for the Sox because he thinks they can win multiple championships.”

    LOL. it is classic a-rod. you would have to think that it is some sort of ploy on arod’s (really borass) part. sure sure big george is no longer in the driver’s seat as his sons are trying to take a larger role in management of the yanks. however appeal to boss george’s “love” for the red sox while making a play for the benjamins. smooth move ex-lax. u really have to wonder whether or not the yanks are truly “out” of the arod sweepstakes. i for one do not think they are. it is business. arod made his business decision, and the yanks have made theirs (at least initially). nothing has been etched in stone. if arod were to agree to a slightly lesser contract in terms of value (probably not entirely likely of course), then it could stand to reason that arod returns. murphydog summed it up best really.

    would i be heartbroken to see arod leave. no. buh-bye. “what part didn’t u understand, the ‘buh’ or the ‘bye?’ ” but i really thought he was over his hangups. besides if you were juxtapose the recent stories in the NYTimes w/ the above Yahoo story, it does indeed look like that team Arod-a ss (as in Bor-ass) is trying to get the yanks back in it. hopefully the muckymucks in the executive offices on River Ave frequent Pete’s blog. some pretty good ideas in here at times. one would hope that these are things they should have figured out for themselves, but in my field i would not profess to knowing everything myself. i do not always have every angle figured out when faced w/ a particularly difficult problem or case however much experience i might have. it will indeed make for an interesting off season.

  419. Yankees 08 - [insert stupid statement here] November 5th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    Rebecca–Optimist Prime on November 5th, 2007 at 12:29 am said:
    “For you A-Rod defenders:

    Who do you want hitting for your team in the ninth inning of game five of the World Series with two out and your team down by two?

    Alex Rodriguez or Scott Brosius?

    I know who I’d choose…”

    Thought you were above such parochial silliness.

  420. saucy November 5th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    too many comments to read here, but Pete, I may disagree a little with your post. Comparing Villone to Arod as Boras clients is silly. if this was a large company, it would be like comparing a guy who comes in twice a month to check and replace lightbulbs to a CEO. i also wouldn’t be surprised if Villone doesn’t deal with Boras personally, but with one of his assistants or someone other Boras employee.

    And Boras only has one player in A-Rods league as far as talent and the amount of money they can command is concerned.

    And how do you know A-Rod did not say “Scott, I want to play for the Yankees next year” and Boras opted out on account of a-rod thinking that he would be in the best position ‘maximize’ his contract by doing so, but misjudging yankee front offices at the same time? how do we know this was not a poor judgement by Boras?

    To simply state that A-Rod is the boss and Boras is the employee seems to be not looking at the picture…

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