Clarifying the status of Pena and Crede
-
- November
- 5
There seems to be some confusion among some of you.
Carlos Pena of the Devil Rays is NOT a free agent. He is arbitration eligible. While Scott Boras would love to get him signed to a multi-year deal, Tampa can go to arbitration with him and a one-year deal would be determined. Tampa is under no obligation to negotiate anything with him.
Joe Crede of the White Sox is in the same situation. The Yankees are unlikely to trade for him now. They would first wait until Dec. 12 to see if Chicago offers him a contract. If he is non-tendered, he becomes a free agent.
Beyond that, he is an infielder coming off back surgery. Obtaining him by any means is risky. Trading Johnny Damon for him would be lunacy in my opinion.
Some people just seem to pick names out of a hat (like Pena) and decide the Yankees should get those players. That’s not how it works.
This entry was posted
on Monday, November 5th, 2007 at 5:23 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Share and Enjoy: 
| 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Peter Abraham
That’s definitely true Peter, about it being crazy to trade Damon for that White Sox third baseman whose name I won’t mention. The Yankees are much too smart to create two holes just to fill one. And trading Damon creates a hole at the leadoff spot and in left field.
thank you pete, i agree 100%
Crede blows
The Pena/Crede clarifications are the first good news I’ve had all day.
By the way, I checked the weather in Orlando, Fl. How’s 71 and clear strike you? Add that to free soda and wireless and man, that’s some deal.
When do we get to hear Cashman on truth serum?
thank you for saying something that makes sense about the Damon/Crede situation. Damon is still a valuable asset to the Yankees, and Crede is coming off back surgery. It might be worth the risk to pick him up for cheap, but not trading our leadoff hitter/ left fielder.
I can’t agree with you more,Pete.Some people just assume other teams will take whatever you give to them or we can take whatever we want.They do this like a fantasy baseball team.It doesn’t work that way.That’s not the way to conduct a negotiation.
Great points, Pete.
Now what the Yankees should REALLY do is go out and sign David Wright to replace A-Rod at 3B and then get Prince Fielder to add some power at 1B.
And of course get Peavy and Johan to solidify the rotation.
We can trade DeSalvo and Chase Wright to get those guys.
Glad Damon for Crede deal was a rumor but we aren’t pulling names out of hats. These rumors seem to start with your fellow writers Pete. Glad you report facts or realistic tips rather than these “name out of a hat”, deals that seem to be flying around. Thanx for setting the record straight.
That’s twice in two days that Pete is making sense—the Blame A-Rod essay and this. What I want to know is what starts the snowball rolling downhill on these types of speculations? Why go for Crede, who’s 29 going on 38 with that bad back, who benefited from hitting in the AL’s best hitters’ park for his whole career, who doesn’t walk (career best .323 OBP in ‘06), who doesn’t hit .300 and who will not be a plus defender after the aches and pains from this season?
Go for Lowell, even if all he can muster at the Stadium is 15-75-.260; better yet, trade for a young guy like Andy LaRoche or Atkins or tell Betemit to get his butt in shape, then platoon him with Andy Phillips. Just don’t do something stupid—the hallmark of the 1980s Yanks who won . . . ZERO playoff games.
“Some people just seem to pick names out of a hat and decide the Yankees should get those players. That’s not how it works.”
Those people are members of the media… the Crede for Damon rumor was started by BUSTER OLNEY and followed up by the Daily News’s own MARK FEINSAND. It’s the media that puts all these rumors out there with its unnamed sources… When did the paper boy start becoming sources for all the hacks in the media Peter, excluding yourself of course.
Thatwasme—Unfortunately, I have it on good authority that Professor Snape, the known maker of veritaserum, is currently dealing with the effects of snake venom and is currently unable to help you in your quest to turn Brian Cashman into an all-truth-spewing machine.
Peter,
Thank god for your clarifications. I’m sick of hearing absolutely insane trade proposals from people (mostly from the users that comment at ESPN).
LET’S TRADE VIZCAINO, KEI IGAWA, AND JASON GIAMBI FOR ALBERT JOHAN SANTANA!
(That was seriously a trade proposal that was posted somewhere).
Forums should come with an age limit and an IQ test. Especially sports forums.
Russ – I like your humor. Maybe we can sign 1998 Randy Johnson as well
Russ, don’t you think the twins would be more than happy to give the Yankees Nathan to go along with Santana as well?
***that last post was supposed to say Albert Pujols and Johan Santana
how is cashman working on posada and mo when he’s at the gm meetings? every tick of the clock increases the players’ leverage as they get closer to having all teams bid on them. why do the yankees think time is on their side?
No, Crede for Damon started in Chicago, and there was a quote from the White Sox GM that they’d be interested in a Damon for Crede trade. But it gets turned around that the Yankees should trade Damon for Crede. Crede is only worthwhile to pursue if he becomes a free agent and doesn’t cost any players.
Damon is still ultra valuable to the Yankees. He played extremely well the last 1/3 to 1/2 of the season. I figure since he ended up the season healthy he’ll be in good shape to begin the 2008 season. The problem is that he wants to play everyday and it’s going to be a problem, because they still have Matsui and Giambi. It did work rotating Matsui and Damon in LF and DH, but Giambi is still the problem. He can’t play 1st base anymore on any kind of a regular basis. That, to me, is going to be one of the biggest logistical problems facing the Yankees. They will find a 3rd baseman, albeit no one near as good as Rodriguez, but someone serviceable at least. Giambi, much as I like him, is just so much weight right now.
You have to have balance and the level of talent between teams and league,otherwise baseball won’t be as good as for we watching.
Peter – don’t chastise the readers of the blog for the Damon/Crede trade talk – Buster Olney’s the one who’s been floating that one around.
Latest rumor I ran across in Chicago is Crawford from Tampa to Chicago, Crede to Yankees and minor leaguers to Tampa.
Not sure what level prospects or from where, assumably the Yanks. Should be a fun hot sove this year.
what buster wrote on his blog:
Within this piece, Mark Gonzales speculates on a framework of a possible deal between the Yankees and the White Sox—Joe Crede to New York, and Johnny Damon to the White Sox. Makes sense in a lot of ways: The Yankees would get the veteran third baseman they need without committing themselves to big dollars, shed Damon’s salary, and the White Sox would solve their third base logjam while adding a center fielder for much less than what the free agent center fielders will get (Damon is owed about $26 million over the next two seasons, and presumably, the Yankees would eat some of that to make a deal happen).
Pete, have to agree with Ruhi.
“Some people just seem to pick names out of a hat and decide the Yankees should get those players. That’s not how it works.â€
Those people are members of the media… the Crede for Damon rumor was started by BUSTER OLNEY and followed up by the Daily News’s own MARK FEINSAND. It’s the media that puts all these rumors out there with its unnamed sources… When did the paper boy start becoming sources for all the hacks in the media Peter, excluding yourself of course.
the question was posed based on information from the baseball gods at ESPN and Mark Feinsand from the Daily News. It was a blurb taken from MLB Rumors that took on a life of its own.
But I think your comments should have said, “in future, people posting on this site should read the entire enty made by a poster before responding. Had the entire post been read and others would have ready Buster Olney and Mark Feinsand, the topic would have died immediately.
Of more interest is how is proves that most posters are here waiting to pounce on comments made rather than taking the time to read the content being posted.
Anyway, lesson learned. Get approval from the blog board of directors before posting any information related to the Yankees.
it wasnt started by buster, it was started by the chicago tribune. and they were speculating, so was buster….
It’s like that game Telephone, you all remember, right?
Thank you Pete. I’m tired of posting how that Crede/Damon rumor is pure junk. Cashman wouldn’t do it.
As for Matsui, he is no longer a full time LF. His defense and range have slipped the past 2 seasons and he doesn’t move well at all out there. Damon is the full time LF. He’s our only lead off guy. He’s a fixture.
Matsui should be given a 1b glove in Spring Training and told to learn how to play there. He and Giambi are going to have to share 1b/DH duties with Shelley/Andy Phillips most likely. Our 1b defense is gonna be a little rough when Phillips isn’t out there. Jeter better work on his throws and we’ll need a 3b with an accurate arm.
Matsui will play some OF, but not every day. His knees are turning him into a DH/1b and it’s the best use for him.
Having Matsui, Damon and Giambi isn’t a bad thing. One of those three is sure to get hurt sometime next season and it will sort itself out. No one is going to take Giambi in his last year. He still may prove to be valuable though. You never know.
Free soda and free wireless for Pete, what is next, something courtesy of Giambi?
Who doesn’t think any of these trade rumors are speculation? It’s all speculation until the team announces it no matter where the info comes from. If it wasn’t for speculation then there would be onlylike 10 posts on this blog a day.
Thank you peter,lunacy is an understatement!
Does Cashman usually have a bit more to say after a few drinks?
The fact that Crede could be a free agent on Dec 12 makes it a idiotic trade. Obviously if everyone knew that, it wouldn’t have been even talked about as a possibility.
Pete,
Until there is solid news, the rumor mill has to suffice for all of us junkies! Most of us know what’s silly and what’s got substance, but it passes the time, I guess.
It actually started on MLB Trade Rumors a long time ago. Not Buster, not the Chicago Tribune.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/10/the-yankees-nex.html
If/when the post I did earlier gets approved it lists all of the links to the “rumor” and their sources.
Just nail the starting rotation and the bullpen and you could put Eric Duncan at 3B and Bronson Sardinha in LF when Matsui’s knee bothers him. As long as we have the pitching, we will have enough bats / firepower in our lineup to win.
I love the idea of letting ARod walk, it’s tremendous. We put that money in a low budget option at 3B and the excess moeny in Francisco Cordero (or some other top of the line bullpen pitcher). We might have messed up w/ Farnsworth, but we can try again w/ Cordero for $8 mil a year.
Damon had a good 2nd half this yr. He can still play especially left field.
he is a deal at 2 yrs and $26 mill…..
Pete,
I want to commend you for all the work you do. I am glad I found your blog. You give us fans the latest and the greatest without all the rumors and the personally spun “news” that get the headlines. Great job!
Why would Cordero want to setup up for Rivera? He has lots of options to close for pretty good money, though he will probably stay in Milwaukee.
The “names out of a hat” comment was meant about Pena, not Crede.
As for Crede, one person speculates on it in writing and then it gets picked up by others. That doesn’t mean there is anything to it.
I personally don’t feel you trade your leadoff hitter and left fielder for a player coming off back surgery. Third base is a tough spot to play with a bad back. And it’s not like the Yankees need any more physically limited DH types.
If you’re coming here looking for me to agree with the rumor of the day, sorry.
The Phillies need a 3B as well and may be a player for Crede. We might not be able to wait it out for Crede to be non-tendered. GM Kenny Williams indicated he was going to be close to having a resolution to 3B for next season. Maybe the rumors are true w/ Damon being shopped for Crede, however, it’s possible we will be getting additional players w/ Crede in a deal.
I don’t know what you do with the Matsui/Giambi/Damon logjam. I don’t think it makes sense to have one of them in a bench role over a whole season. I like Damon in LF and leading off, but there are business reasons (international revenue) to keep Matsui and Damon is obviously a lot more tradable than Giambi. Thus, I’m resigned to the idea that Damon’s probably going to be traded in the off season. Either that or let Giambi play a lot of 1B and if he gets injured so be it.
On a side topic, do we install Ohlendorf, Veras and maybe a minor leaguer like Steven White into the bullpen next season w/ some veterans?
Crede for Damon is ridiculous…it’s not going to happen.
The Yankees don’t need a 3Bman that badly.
The Hot Stove league can be fun but it can also be annoying…people just throwing out names and saying they’d be good for the Yankees.
I mean Crede? C’mon…what could the Yankees possible do with a player like that.
For Damon? It’s ludicrous.
“Why would Cordero want to setup up for Rivera? He has lots of options to close for pretty good money, though he will probably stay in Milwaukee.”
Money talks, but probably a long shot.
If by “playoff games” you mean “any postseason games,” the Yanks of the 1980s won EIGHT not ZERO playoff games during the 1980s, all in 1981. I suppose that one could argue that they did not do the Nancy & Jr. Sinatra thing that year; that is, “something stupid,” but then you would have to explain the midseason strike, . . . and Oscar Gamble, . . . and Rick Reuschel.
Thanks for clearing up that rumor Pete. I think we were all tired of hearing that we were gonna get some awful third baseman for Damon. I was wondering if you have heard anything about Alexei Ramirez there, or if you were could you let us know. P.S have fun getting hammered with Cashman.
it’s a ways up but did someone really post a three team deal involving Carl Crawford, Crede, and prospects? That’s pretty funny. Gotta love some of these pitiful trade rumors.
Potential Free Agents after next season – dont drool too much!
Johan Santana (Twins), Jake Peavy (Padres)*, C.C. Sabathia (Indians), Ben Sheets (Brewers), Brad Penny (Dodgers)*, John Smoltz (Braves)*
Derek Lowe (Dodgers), Kazumi Saitoh (Japan), Kenshin Kawakami (Japan), Koji Uehara (Japan), Jon Garland (White Sox), Aaron Cook (Rockies), A.J. Burnett (Blue Jays)*, Oliver Perez (Mets), Pedro Martinez (Mets), Mark Mulder (Cardinals)*, Mike Mussina (Yankees)
Peter,
The very definition of lunacy is committing 2 years and 26 million dollars to a mid-thirties outfielder who can’t stay on the field for a full season. Furthermore, there’s not a single team in baseball who would take on Damon’s full contract right now. Pretty crazy…isn’t it?
PS
So now Buster Olney just picks names out of a hat?
Bill:
“I don’t know what you do with the Matsui/Giambi/Damon logjam. I don’t think it makes sense to have one of them in a bench role over a whole season. I like Damon in LF and leading off, but there are business reasons (international revenue) to keep Matsui and Damon is obviously a lot more tradable than Giambi. Thus, I’m resigned to the idea that Damon’s probably going to be traded in the off season. Either that or let Giambi play a lot of 1B and if he gets injured so be it.”
I don’t care if people might call you a lunatic for so eloquently laying out your thought process. I see solid logic above.
I have to agree with Wangkee, it’s far from lunacy to consider this Crede trade for an overpriced and defensively-limited Damon. It’s a gamble on both ends, with neither player being healthy recently, though admittedly Damon is not coming off back surgery. Moving Jeter to lead-off and moving Damon for a 3B is not lunacy, but something reasonable to consider.
Let’s see, Buster Olney, The NY Daily News and now the Boston Globe all succumbing to sheer insanity. It would be nice to if the so called professionals of the mainstream media would do their fact checking before publishing more material that offends the perfectly sane posters on this blog (the same ones who wanted to give Arod 350 million bucks).
November 5, 2007
Coco on the brain
By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff
ORLANDO – It’s been fairly quiet here today at the GM’s meetings as executives and scouts continue to trickle in from all over.
The White Sox seem interested in Crisp but there’s a lot of Johnny Damon-for-Joe Crede talk here between the White Sox and Yankees. The White Sox need to get a name player and Damon is definitely one player they’re considering strongly.
Reasons:
Thank you. Of course it’s a gamble on both ends. Too bad Buster Olney, the NY Daily News and The Boston Globe are incapable of performing the same kind of cost-benefit analysis as the perfectly objective Yankees fans who have grown emotionally attached to all the underacheiving big names brought onto this team since 2004.
Guys: read the post. Pena is a name I suggested people were picking out of a hat, not Crede.
Maybe the Yankees will trade Damon for Crede. I personally do not believe that would be a good idea. Am I supposed to agree with everybody else? i didn’t realize that.
Damon came to camp out of shape and was a mess until June because of leg injuries. He was a key player for them in the second half and is the only leadoff hitter they have unless you want Jeter there.
I would not trade him for a player coming off back surgery. That is my opinion. I’m not saying there is nothing to the rumor, maybe there is. I haven’t heard that there is. Why wouldn’t Chicago want to do that? Of course they would.
Some of you guys take this stuff way too seriously. Just relax, it’s a long winter.
“Damon came to camp out of shape and was a mess until June because of leg injuries. He was a key player for them in the second half and is the only leadoff hitter they have unless you want Jeter there.”
If we’re going to evaluate Damon based on his peak performance…we should do the same for Crede. In his most recent full season (2006), Crede smacked 30 HR’s and K’d about half as many times as Arod. He played gold glove defense.
Crede’s a high ceiling, cheap one year commitment.
My only worry is the leadoff spot. I could do the safe thing and pull for Jeter to takeover there but I believe Melky’s ready. I’m sure that puts me in the minority but I think the organization thinks highly of him as a defender and a leadoff hitter. His 2007 season was almost identical to Damon’s. I believe the Yankees also like what they see with all the speedy young outfielders advancing through the minors. Tabata, Jackson and Gardner all have potential to lead off.
We have a log jam in the outfield and a hole at third base. Damon’s the most tradeable commodity out there and Crede might be the best bargain on the market. I don’t think Arod deserves 15% of a team’s payroll and Miguel Cabrera will cost at least one of our prized arms.
Damon for Crede is sheer lunacy.
You trade your leadoff guy, with nobody to take his spot, for a guy coming off back surgery. Makes no sense from the Yankees perspective. It creates more holes than it fills.
I like Joe Crede. I think he is a good player. However, he can be had for less. A lot less.
He has no real market right now because he is coming off back surgery. Why in the world would you trade Damon for him?
Scott Brosius, whom Crede compares most favorably to as a player, hit .203 the year the Yankees traded for him. It cost them nowhere near the calibur of player as a Damon.
He was healthy. Crede is a question mark, healthwise.
Fans panic too much. They want their roster set by December 1 and are in a panic when it isn’t.
Relax. Its a long winter and a lot of things can happen.
The Yankees don’t need an all star at every position and they don’t need to rape the farm system to trade for the Miguel Cabrera’s of the world.
In fact, it wouldn’t shock me if the entire roster is not set by Christmas. That also isn’t a bad thing.
Here’s Crede at peak performance:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3879081259578052510&q=joe+crede&total=20&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
More Crede:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4190549610959401862
Jeter at lead-off is okay.
Joe Jurevicius, plays football (rough on your back!), had back surgery, is okay.
Is it a no-brainer trade? no. back surgery is serious. damon may not be all the way done yet, so maybe you get burned.
do we have too many left fielders? yes. do we have a third baseman? no. Crede might pay off (see some “pro” arguments above). it’s a risk. sometimes you take them to make your team better.
lunacy, no! be nice. we take this seriously (very sensitive!)
Reasons:
I’m willing to gamble on Crede based on his gold glove defense, his pop when he’s healthy and his low K rates that translate to timely hits in big situations when the pitcher really needs to throw a good pitch and hits his spot but the perfect ball gets spoiled by Crede’s high-contact bat.
If Crede fails, it’s no big deal because he’s only a 1 year commitment. If he can’t make it through the entire 2008 season, we have Wilson Betemit as a stopgap to Miguel Cabrera in 2010.
If Crede fails, we still get Damon’s salary off the books and pass the leadoff baton to another young player (Melky) and give him a chance to develop as a table setter. With Girardi in charge, Melky’s going to learn to cut down his swing and get back to making contact. Girardi won’t hesitate to chew out Melky if he attempts an Arod impression.
It’s time we cut ties with the overpriced declining vets of the past and give more of a chance to the Melky’s leading off and the lightening quick Tabata’s, Jackson’s and Gardner’s trying to crack the ML roster.
I live in Chicago and get to see alot of Whitesox games. Crede is a very good defensive player with some pop in his bat. During the World Series run, he contributed many clutch hits during the playoffs, series and regular season.
He is also a good team guy. The comparison to Brosius is a good one. Crede probabably hits for a better average though.
I wouldn’t trade Damon straight up for him either, but how often do you see a one for one swap in MLB these days. It is rare. Not likely the Yanks need to dump salary, so that wouldn’t be the motivation either.
Whatever happenss, I trust Cash will come up with a 3rd baseman by opening day. Hot Stove is fun, just the rumors alone generate so much conversation and allows everyone to be an armchair GM. Some peaople do take it way too serious however.
Great blog Pete. It gives a Yankee fan in Cghicago somewhere to keep up to date and connect with others. Thanks.
You don’t trade a healthy player for an unhealthy player. Sorry but, that’s lunacy.
If it was the Joe Crede of 2006, that’s an even trade.
Now, its decidedly in the White Sox favor and its unnecessary to make that deal.
Just because you don’t have a third baseman on November 5 doesn’t mean you weaken your club further in the pursuit of one.
They need Johnny Damon. They don’t need Joe Crede. Damon was a big reason why the team made a playoff run.
He also is the type of player Girardi wants to have on his team.
I’m not saying you don’t ask around and see what you can get for him. He is worth a helluva lot more than a guy coming off back surgery in return.
You can accomplish all that without trading Damon for Crede.
The issue isn’t trading Damon. Its trading him for a guy who is coming off back surgery.
Its too much to give up for Crede.
Its also not known if the White Sox want to deal him. They can move Josh Fields to first base (and trade Konerko) or move Fields to left field.
Fields is a terrible defensive third baseman.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the White Sox kept Crede and looked to move Konerko.
From their perspective, that makes more sense and they could get more in return.
“If we’re going to evaluate Damon based on his peak performance…we should do the same for Crede. In his most recent full season (2006), Crede smacked 30 HR’s and K’d about half as many times as Arod. He played gold glove defense.”
oh, he K’ed half as many times as A-Rod. that means he’s awesome.
when K’s become worth more outs than a ground out or pop out, let me know and we can change the way we evaluate players.
Crede is a bad player who had his career year in 2006.
mentioning him in the same sentence as A-Rod is just embarassing for everyone here.
I agree SJ44.
There is plenty of time to get a 3rd baseman. I wouldn’t make that trade either. If it were more encompassing or the Sox were willing to take less, I would take the chance.
When dealing from a weak point, you lose all leverage and at this point, the Yankees are not dealing from a weakness. I am a fan of Damon and I like what he did in the 2nd half last year. It was a completely different player and it allows Jeter to be a better hitter when the leadoff hitter does his thing.
I’m sure Cash will sit and not make any rush judgements and trades. You never know what will shake out over time. The GM meetings tend to lay the groundwork for stuff that may not happen for weeks, months or ever.
Crede’s expects to be fully healthy at spring training. A herniated disc is not a career ending injury. He’s been rehabbing fiercely, just as Matsui did after his wrist surgery.
There are just as many questions about Damon’s health as Crede. Damon’s banged up. Nobody can guarantee that he’ll stay healthy over the course of a full season and perform to career norms. We wouldn’t be trading the same player we signed in 2004-05.
Melky’s projected value as a leadoff hitter makes it easier to dump Damon’s salary before he completely tanks it. Melky and Damon had a similar 2007 statwise but Melky’s on the upswing while Damon’s on the decline.
hmmmmmm:
http://www.sfgiants.com
To clarify, I don’t really have an opinion on the Crede for Damon rumors. I was more just commenting that I do expect Damon to be traded, perhaps for a 3B or perhaps for BP help or maybe for prospects or some combination. If they are committed to starting Melky in CF though and assuming Giambi, Damon, & Matsui all appear to be relatively healthy entering the season, I think one of them will be traded and Damon seems to me the most likely one to go.
if the Giants trade Lincecum they should have their franchise revoked. it’s just not something you do.
Bill:
What are your thoughts on Aaron Rowand?
hmmmm:
The link was for you to follow Arod the stat-God to his future home.
Then again Melky could be packaged in a deal for Santana in which case Damon would be needed. Its early and there are going to be lots of rumors, most of which will be BS.
Bill:
The Twins will want Hughes. Are the Yankees ready to part with him?
“The link was for you to follow Arod the stat-God to his future home.”
oh, hilarious.
i’m sorry i don’t want a player with a career OBP of .305 playing for the Yankees. especially one coming off of back surgery.
they guy is a career .259/.305/.446 hitter.
he isn’t good, and i don’t really give a crap how “gritty” or “clutch” you think he is.
“Bill:
What are your thoughts on Aaron Rowand?”
He’s plays the game with a lot of heart, is a great defender, and has some pop in the bat. I think he’ll be expensive and take a 4-5 year contract to sign and probably is a “A” free agent which would also cost a #1 draft pick. If they ended up trading Melky and needed a CF, perhaps not trusting Damon’s defense or health if he played CF, I’d prefer him to signing Tori Hunter who I think is older, perhaps declining faster, and still more expensive. But CF isn’t a need right now. I think the focus should be on really improving the pitching—trying to get a young ace (eg Santana, Bedard, Kazmir) and shoring up the bullpen. Even if they did trade Melky, I might gamble on Damon being able to handle CF until someone younger like Austin Jackson could take over rather than committing long term to an expensive CF’er.
hmmmm:
I strongly oppose any plan to plug in numbers position by position and treat a bunch of living breathing human beings like a mathematical eqation. Arod’s a case in point. All stat-no heart. You can’t quantify his poor makeup, his effect on fans, his influence on his teammates and coaches. I’m not as much of a simpleton as those who defended Arod based soley on the numbers game. His RBI drought in the playoffs proves that you can quote numerical data all season long and then look like a fool in the end.
Joe Crede’s not a number’s guy. He’s a well-rounded hard-nosed team-first guy who leaves his heart out on the field. The Yankees need to build from within first and foremost…but if they decide to import ballplayers from other organizations, they have to think about their character and all the immeasurable intangibles that those players may bring to the team. Post stat lines. It means nothing to me. Winning does and stats are only part of a winning formula…not the comprehensive solution.
“Bill:
The Twins will want Hughes. Are the Yankees ready to part with him?”
I don’t think you blink about trading Hughes in a package for Santana, provided you could negotiate an extension before concluding the trade. We all expect Hughes to be special, but he’s still unproven. Santana’s the best pitcher in baseball IMO, is in his prime and is a lefty at that. If its a short term rental, forget about it.
Bill:
Interesting analysis and I agree with much of it. I agree that the Yankees need to acquire a Santana or a Kazmir…but they’ll need someone like Austin Jackson or Jose Tabata to pull that off. If you remove one of the young outfielders from the picture, you’re left with an outfield of Melky, one of the untraded youngsters and Damon. If you brought in Aaron Rowand you’d be replacing Damon with a better bat and a righty, keeping the better of the young OF’s (Jackson or Tabata) and using one of them as a key piece in a deal for a front-line pitcher. My 02.
“Post stat lines. It means nothing to me. Winning does and stats are only part of a winning formula…not the comprehensive solution.”
ok, i’ll explain. a .305 OBP means he makes an out 69.5% of the time.
outs are bad b/c you only get 27 of them per game.
the less outs you make, the more it helps your team.
Crede makes a ton of outs, and therefore he hurts his team.
i don’t really care if he “leaves his heart” on the field. i’d prefer it if when he at the plate, he doesn’t make outs.
that’s just me.
hmmmmmm:
Stats = wins. The best team on paper always wins. The team with the most all-stars position by position wins. Whatever you say ‘hmmmmmm’.
Peter,
With all due respect, I don’t think your comments are entirely fair. Damon for Crede isn’t happening, no doubt. But Crede is an option worth looking at, if he is non-tendered. Ideal, probably not. But low risk and with a potential good upside.
Is that speculation any different than you comment today about Tejeda?
Ok, Peter….I take back part of what I said. I missed your comment that you were really commenting on Pena, and not Crede.
I’m not saying Crede is some bum. I’m saying don’t give up Johnny Damon for him.
I wouldn’t give up Damon either.
But I think Crede is a viable option. Maybe not option A, but a viable one depending on how this all shakes out.
“Stats = wins. The best team on paper always wins. The team with the most all-stars position by position wins. Whatever you say ‘hmmmmmm’.”
please stop.
your argument is an embarrassing strawman.
Pete…I hope your comments on Pena are directed at Michael Kay. He’s the one who kept saying that Pena would be a free agent this season while doing the Yankees games….despite the fact that it was clear he was nowhere close to free agency.
testing
YANKEE FANS-
Lighten up on the Crede bashing. If you recall, Mike Lowell was a throw-in in the Beckett-for-Hanley Ramirez deal. He was coming off an injury and sub-par year. (Ring a bell?) Sox fans didn’t want him, saying that Youklis could be fine at third as a stopgap.
If the Yanks can get a finally-healthy Crede (remember, he was trying to play through pain the past two years, and submitted to season-ending surgery to resolve the problem), then he’s an absolute steal. Who cares about 2009? The Yankees want to win in 2008.
If not for the Eric Chavez popularity votes, Crede would have been the Gold Glove winner at third base two straight years. He’s a vaccuum over there, and changes games. Sox announcers will tell you that he’ll win three games a year just by stealing late inning hits. And he never makes a bad throw to first base.
As he matured, his pitch selection improved tremendously. He was hitting about .300 when the back pain started. He can crush the ball on occasion, or take it up the middle when that’s what the situation calls for. Time and time again, he gets big hits when they matter most, regardless of his batting average – something not every player is capable of. He’s a World Series champion – something many of the current Yankees have never been through. And he’s a great teammate – something that many questioned about the Yankees previous third baseman.
One thing Crede is not is smooth around the media during interviews. He’s got a lot of country boy in him, but that’s also part of his charm. In Chicago he’s a fan favorite, and the ladies love him. He’s just a dude who loves to play ball and drink some beers. He doesn’t have an ounce of prima donna in him, and has always worked to improve.
He’s not a household name because of the past two years going on and off the DL, but if he’s healed, he can be the surprise to the Yankees that Lowell was to the Red Sox. And it wouldn’t hurt for a guy to go in there with low expectations from the fans, because once they realize what they have, he would quickly win them over, and would be a major component in the Yankees lineup.