Pettitte, Yankees still on good terms
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 06, 2007 
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Let’s compare the recent actions of two players:
Player A: He opted out of his contract during Game 4 of the World Series. His agent gave the news to a few reporters then called Brian Cashman and left a text message. The player ignored several requests to speak with the owners of team and still hasn’t given any public explanation for his actions.
Player B: This guy declined his option for 2008, saying he wanted more time to think it over. He personally called Brian Cashman with the news and they spoke for nearly 20 minutes. He then had his agent send an e-mail to the Associated Press so the news would get out to everybody once the season was over. The player will be in New York on Friday to attend a charity dinner and will speak to the media then.
Business is business. But how you conduct business says a lot. Alex Rodriguez will leave the game of baseball more wealthy than anybody could imagine. But you have to wonder how differently people would view him if he acted just a little more like Andy Pettitte.
In talking to Cashman last night, he made it clear that the Yankees will talk often with Pettitte and he’s hopeful they’ll make a deal. Given how Pettitte handled his option, clearly the door is wide open.
jesus Pete how many more Arod comparisons
I have no doubt that Andy Pettitte declined the option because he is waiting to see if his name is included in the Mitchell Report. If not, he re-signs with the Yankees. If it is, he disappears like Palmeiro and McGwire.
In fact, I think teams would want to wait for this report before signing anyone. When is it due out?
Pete – Do you foresee Pettite getting more than the 16 Million and possibly a second year added to the deal as a player option?
Jorge 4 yrs. is not cashing in but insanity the guy is 36.. give me a break..
albany yankee, so you know pettitte cheats, fill me in please. I m all ears.. If you do not have any proof do not make statements like that about a good guy…….
pettitte was mentioned in jason grimlsey affidavit. Doesnt mean he took anything, but he has been linked in the past.
4 years is to much..
The Yankees need him so hopefully they make him a very attractive 2 or 3 year option that blows the other offers out of the water..
Pettitte and Clemens were rumored to be mentioned in the Grimsley affadavit, weren’t they? You really think Pettitte doesn’t know if he wants to play next year? Wait and see what happens. Would he want to play in NY if the Mitchell investigation identifies him as a roid guy? Doubtful.
The Mitchell Report is coming out in late December, at the earliest.
If you think teams are going to wait until late December to sign players, you are listening to too much talk radio.
Its not even known if names will be in the Mitchell Report. I doubt that’s holding up Andy Pettitte.
I thought I read a few weeks ago that the Mitchell Report was coming out before Thanksgiving. Have they made an official announcement?
What difference does it make if he plays or not if he is named?
As far as his reputation is concerned, it would be shot regardless of whether or not he plays.
In fact, if he was so concerned about being in the Mitchell Report, he would have accepted the option, since it guarantees him 16 million dollars.
Under your assumption, it would make MORE sense for Pettitte to take the option now (guaranteeing the money) than it would to wait.
this from the post:
“An executive from another NL team raised another persistent concern about this report: Mitchell’s conflict of interest. Mitchell is listed as the director of the Red Sox, and the NL official said, “What if Boston is about to sign a player, Mitchell learns about it and the player is in the report? Are we supposed to believe that with a financial stake in the team, he is not going to warn the Red Sox?”
Migames-
Ya its ridiuclous that MLB allows someone in his position to head the investigation.
So much for ‘independent investiagtor’..
Pettitte will retire.
Posada will sign elsewhere.
Rivera will sign with LA Dodgers.
It’s like the early 90′s all over again. An outgoing Bush in the White House and a rebuilding Yankees team.
Next Year’s Lineup:
Damon LF/1b
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Matsui DH/LF
Giambi DH/1b
Cano 2b
Betemit 3b
Cabrera CF
Molina C
Pitchers
Wang
Hughes
Chamberlain
Mussina
Kennedy
Closer
Gagne/Cox/Sanchez (committee)
Projected record: 87-75
Possible in-season drama: Jeter demands trade (shades of Mattingly 87-89)
Mussina retires
Girardi undergoes unfavorable scrutiny
Cashman is fired
vampire bats attack Melky Cabrera and transport his limp body to London, Ontario where he is resuscitated and forced to lead contraversial research into the draining of the Great Lakes.
I don’t disagree with you at all, but let’s face it, A-Rod is a wee bit more marketable in the global sense than is Andy Pettitte. That said, Andy is extremely important to the Yanks next year. Nice is nice and makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy, but he needs to know that he can’t leave Cashman hanging. Needs must be addressed. His biggest value just may be in his example to the youngsters, so a commitment cannot be put off forever.
AlbanyYankee
You’re way out on the far side. Petitte is not the type. The only way I see him implicated is if some of the treatments used for his elbow pain are now suspect.
BTW I meant “threw” the Yanks under the bus and not “through” in the above post.
“Then he had one of the historically best seasons for a catcher in the history of the game.
This is Posada’s chance to cash in and he’s going to take it. I can’t say I blame him.”
Replace “catcher” with “player” and also replace “Posada” with “Rodriguez” and now you understand why A-Rod opted out. I know he handled the situation in a really poor manner, but he would have opted out anyway even if he did conduct business the right way, and people would have been all over him as a turncoat regardless. But opting out was the logical move for him. Just like it’s the logical move for Jorge to want to make the most money as well.
MC Hammer – that is the most ridiculous post i’ve ever read. if you don’t come up with some more logical thoughts, we’ll sick pure SJ44 on you
MC/Sinead, LAD probably not interested in Rivera given that closer is one position they can feel good about (Saito).
Rivera signing with the Dodgers?? THey already have a solid bullpen trio of Proctor/Broxton/Saito. Saito was arguably the best closer in all of baseball last year. Why would they spend between 10 and 15 million per year for Rivera when they already have a good bullpen? That’s not going to happen.
Peter – it seems like each day that goes by A Rod looks more and more awful. I appreciate your thoughts on this because you are around players, media, executives etc. every day
If Curt Schilling just signed for $8mm with incentives that could take it to $13mm, maybe the Yankees should be thrilled that Pettite declined the option for now. I’m sure arguments can be made about Pettites age, but lets get real. Schilling did enough in the playoffs for that other team to win, and is obviously taking a little less to stay there. Ortiz and Beckett are signed to contracts that are obsecenely low given the current market.
Yes Pettite is leaving on great terms and hes a true Yankee, but its time to get the salaries on the Yankees under some sort of control – we are talking about $8mm here.
Hey, I’ll take the “Cashman is fired” portion of MC’s post.
I’d replace him with Damon Oppenheimer, the TRUE hero of the Yankee’s revamped farm system.
What has Cashman done so spectacularly other than not trade Oppenheimer’s draft picks. You can find many GM”s with patience (or afraid to pull the trigger).
Other than that, Cashman’s moves and signings have been curious at best. The boy doesn’t have a knack for good MLB player evaluating, especially pitching.
Ok, I admit this is a boring post – but thanks, Pete, for the updates on Mo/Jorge and insight into Andy’s relationship with the team. I must compliment others who have used some very vivid imaginations in compiling their team for ’08. I guess I tend to stick with the facts. But it does make for some entertaining reading – LOL
Ducky Bent, just out of curiousity, do you by chance know who hired Damon Oppenheimer?
Peter,
As noted above, the difference isn’t so much the conduct of players and coaches it’s how the media perceives them and reports on them. For example, the option for Pettitte was supposed to be because he didn’t like free agency and wanted to avoid it if he was healthy enough to play. Now, he gets a free pass, why? I’m a big fan of his, and thinks it’s fine, but he’s not a saint, and if it was any other player there’d be talk about how he’s trying to hold the Yankees up for more money and/or years by not exercising his option. Hey, it’s his right, like it was ARod’s right to opt out, and between millionaire players and billionaire owners, I’m on the players’ side, but enough with the double standards, and enough about ARod already. We know you hate him, just spare us any more of your venom. Please!
raymagnetic, yes I do. George Steinbrenner. Damon Oppenheimer was of the Tanpa faction.
You thought it was Cashmman, huh?
“True Yankee” – Everyone who has put on the uniform and signed a contract with NYY was truly a Yankee. That includes the crappy guys like Womack and Crosby and the injured guys like Wright and Pavano. I hate this expression.
And the Yankees have a lot of money coming off the payroll after 2008 – Pavano/Farnsworth/Giambi/Mussina/Abreu. So I don’t think paying 16 million for one year of Pettitte is that big of a deal if he decides to play again.
edit. “Tampa”
By the way, Oppenheimer was hired as a scout for the Yankees in 1992.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....tebook_ap/
Pettitte is the key to the off season. If this is to have a legit shot at the post season, it needs a capable veteran who can handle NY, the Yankees and pitch big games.
The kids are going to have their moments, but they are also going to struggle at times.
I don’t know what it’s going to take to get Pettitte to come back, but I’m pretty certain the Yankees know how important he is to next years team and they will do everything they can to retain him.
Without Pettitte and without Mo, we’re in for a really tough season. When you lose your (arguably) #1 starter and closer there is no way you don’t take a huge hit, not to mention lose you MVP 3b and possibly starting C.
Sorry for not fitting this in my previous post, but, Oppenheimer took over for Lin Garrett as Director of Scouting after the June 2003 or 2004 draft.
Can’t trade draft picks in MLB, so he could trade them even if he wanted to. That’s when you lost me.
Do you know who promoted Damon and pushed him to his present position (without the support of the Tampa Mafia)?
Cashman.
Pettite’s pause for reflection would not get so much attention if it didn’t seem like part of a trend in which players are thinking seriously about whether they actually want to be in the Bronx or not. A trend of “I’ll think it over and my people will get back to your people” which makes a stark contrast with recent years.
They may all come back. But the nature of the interaction has changed for now.
dewd – we know you don’t like arod now. must you keep blogging about the same thing? the way arod was treated by the fans AND the media, it’s no wonder why he opted out. I don’t understand why the fans who booed him and the reporters who trashed him don’t see this.
Ducky Bent, this is a great article about the underrated Brian Cashman.
http://bestblog.mlblogs.com/in.....liver.html
Oppenheimer took over the Director of Scouting spot prior in 2004 to Cashman’s “autononmy” (which was after the 2005 season). So it was an organizational decision, not Cashman’s. not to say that Cashman disapproved.
Anyway, my point is the sooner Damon takes over for Cashman the better.
SJ44,
That’s only if he felt the $16M was worth a year of steroid questions from the media. He probably has plenty of money at this point. Do you really just think he doesn’t know if he wants to play again?
BobFanSince 50,
You win the grand prize, that is exactly what theo story will be IF Pettite’s name is in the Mitchell report. I’m sure that will be the story we hear from many of the names that will be made public…. Sounds like the MEts are putting on a full court press to sign jorge, they will go the extra year, I guess they see him playing first base . I would think with his sons medical condition that he really wants to stay in NY, so it hase to be the Mets or the Yanks. I don’t think he would use another team to try and drive up his value. I’ve been wrong before though…By the way They will sign A-Rod too
MC Hammer/Sinead O’Connor Wrestlng Match ….you are out of your mind…IMO…
Conveniently everyone forgets the follow up report saying that it wasn’t Pettitte’s name listed in the report.
Cashman knows what he’s doing. He’s had plenty of screwups, but he has learned from all that and is a smarter GM as a result. And Mattingly would be the manager right now if Cashman wasn’t around. I like Don, but Joe G. is the one I really wanted to get the job.
raymagnetic, thanks for the good read. Yes, the Yanks can do worse, but also much better in my opinion. The article was subjective (as are all opinions) but let me address 5 points made in it:
“1. He has rid the Yankees’ of a number of albatrosses and lowered payroll”
Roger Clemens and Kevin Brown say hello. There is a smart way of lowering payroll and a dumb way. I think Cashman is 50-50 in this area.
“2. He has rebuilt the pitching depth in the minor leagues”
Again, credit goes to Oppenheimer. Yes, some credit goes to Cashman for having patience with Damon’s boys.
“3. He has re-established internal stability”
As has Joe Torre (and I’m no Torre’s in-game managing fan. I’ll give Cashman a good grade here.
4″. He has expanded the Yankees’ committment in the International Market”
Huh? Contreras and Matsui were George signings.
“5. He is in the process of elongating the current Yankees’ dynasty”
This far ZERO WS trips under Cashman and early eliminations each year.
“Anyway, my point is the sooner Damon takes over for Cashman the better.”
Based on the fact he was able to use an increased draft budget to take guys with signability issues later in the draft than their talent justified? It’s not that people didn’t realize these guys were talented and the Damon did, it’s that the Yankees had the money to pay them. I think he’s doing a fantastic job, but he’s no genius.
William Y, I believe that the Giradi hiring was Cashman’s best move yet. Now let’s see if Cashman gives Girardi the same crappy starting and relief pitching, poor bench, bad 2nd string catchers (till Molina) and awful 1st base situation he had given Torre.
DHC–
Maybe you could say that but Pettite is not the example to be using. Last year it was the same thing with Andy in terms of playing or retiring. Both Cashman and Pettite have said many times how difficult a decision it was for him and they really had to put a full court press on him to come back as he was going to shut it down after his last year with Houston.As I saod last night the Yankees signed him on december 6th of last year. I woudl imagine that we would know something by them as he would need to start on his workout by then.
ESPN.com is currently displaying pieces talking about NL west teams and what each could be doing this offseason here’s what I read in the Colorado Rockies article:
Trade bait
The left-handed Fuentes, who lost his closer’s role to Manny Corpas and is due for a big raise via arbitration, could be dealt along with Atkins, who has topped .300 the past two years while collecting 54 homers and 231 RBIs.
Atkins could be replaced at third base by Ian Stewart, though Stewart focused on playing second base in the instructional league.
Couldn’t the yanks benefit from either, if not both of these guys?
Thoughts?
B, good point (about Yankee resources). But the same can be said about the GM, as you know.
That said, it still takes a keen eye for good talent and the Yanks have taken good chances (Joba) as well.
Back to Pettitte. If his heart isn’t 100% into playing from the moment the Yanks made their last out in Oct, then maybe it’s time to say thanks but no thanks to him.
So is this the article people are pulling 5-70 from??
http://nyyfans.com/blog/index.php?entry=8788
He was just throwing a number in the air.
“4. He has expanded the Yankees’ committment in the International Marketâ€
Huh? Contreras and Matsui were George signings.”
wow, for a minute i thought you actually knew what you were talking about.
Montero, DeLeon, Tabata, etc.
these are names that anyone who follows the yankees knows about.
the “international market” is more than just japanese and cuban players who come straight to the major leagues.
Ducky Bent, Cashman has only had total power for two years.
Did you know that Cashman never wanted to sign Tony Womack, he wanted Miguel Cairo but the Tampa trio insisted on Tony Womack.
Did you know Cashman never wanted Sheffield, the Tampa trio insisted on Sheff over Vlad?
You say he hasn’t expanded the international signings do you? Ever heard of Jesus Montero and Jose Tabata?
Do you know that Cashman has also upgraded the minor league pitching depth through trades and also approving the amount of money needed to sign the amateur players?
I also might add that Showalter and Gene Michael were instrumental in bringing credibility back to the pinstripes, and that’s pre Torre and Cashman.
O.K. Miggy’s name has come up yet again. If Cairo had to choose between Jeter & the Yankees or Torre & the Dodgers where would he go?
And now Gene Michaels is going to prove that he and Cashman can do it again without Torre.
““5. He is in the process of elongating the current Yankees’ dynastyâ€
This far ZERO WS trips under Cashman and early eliminations each year.”
as long as ZERO = 5 then you are absolutely correct.
you are embarrassing yourself and should probably stop typing.
Under Cashman, they signed the best two players available in the Latin American undrafted FA market the past two years.
They also signed Jairo Heredia a kid whom, may make EVERYBODY regret signing in another couple of years. He may be the best Under 20 year old pitcher in the World right now.
They have built a state of the art training center in the DR, that is the talk of Latin American baseball.
They increased amateur scouting AND the budget by almost 200%.
They took the farm system from being ranked near the bottom of baseball to the Top 6 in just over 2 years.
I’d say those are pretty significant achievements under Cashman’s watch.
As far as Oppenheimer is concerned, it was Cashman who pushed for his promotion. Just because Oppenheimer was based in Tampa, doesn’t mean he was part of the Tampa Mafia.
In fact, some of the more paranoid Tampa Mafia members have always felt Oppenheimer was a “spy” for Cashman.
Part of being a good GM is hiring good people and letting them do their jobs. Just because you may disagree with a move or two doesn’t mean the guy is doing a “bad” job.
hmm and Ray, I never said the Yanks didn’t sign international players during Cashman’s reign. BUT it is NOT a novel idea by him; the Yanks were in the int’l market (say hi Jean) way before Cashman’s “autonomy”.
And to mention Latin players is a stretch, for all teams are strong in recruiting the Dominican, PR, etc, and have been for years.
hmmm, let’s keep score. Tell me. How many post season and rings did the
Yanks have prior to Cashman as GM and post Cashman?
Do the math, Einstein.
Rob Neyer’s reporting that Schilling has a $2M non-eating (weight) bonus. If that’s true it’s hilarious and mildly offensive at the same time.
Ike,
ny post is saying that Colorado doesnt want to part with Atkins do to Holliday being a Boras client and not knowing if he leaves. So we can eliminate Atkins from the mix.
What im reading is its Between Beltre, Lowell and Cabrera. It seems like they want something more than Crede. Id go with Beltre, 2 years left 24 mil looking to dump salary. Maybe offer Igawa(IN NEED OF STARTING PITCHING,SEEM TO PREFER JAPANESE PLAYERS IN THE MARKET THEY ARE IN).
And hmmm? Let’s also count pre and post autonomous Cashman as well, shall we?
“hmmm, let’s keep score. Tell me. How many post season and rings did the Yanks have prior to Cashman as GM and post Cashman?
Do the math, Einstein”
are you serious with this?
from when, 1910 to the present? is that your measuring stick?
the point is that Brian Cashman has 3 rings as the GM of the NY Yankees. and 5 trips to the WS.
you said he had none.
you were completely wrong.
just stop, you are embarrassing yourself by talking about things you are obviously not educated about.
I think they are cherry-picking the start of Cashman’s tenure as 2005, even though he has been the GM since 1998.
“And hmmm? Let’s also count pre and post autonomous Cashman as well, shall we?”
hey, keep moving the goalposts.
whatever it takes to now admit you were wrong.
“And to mention Latin players is a stretch, for all teams are strong in recruiting the Dominican, PR, etc, and have been for years.”
in the last 2 years, the yankees have become much more agressive in this market. cashman has authorized more spending in this area.
the yankees have signed the top international FA the last 2 years.
Pete,
Its unbelievable how you have turned into such a huge A-Rod hater. First, lets address things in order of how they happened. His agent sent news of A-Rod’s decision to opt out during game 4 of the World Series. I mean honestly, who cares??!!! If anything, it made the world series much more interesting! Every game was more boring than the last and baseball needed something controversial to entertain viewers. And the different media outlets didn’t have to break in with that announcement. But they knew it was much more news worthy that what was going on over in Colorado.
Secondly, I dont know why everyone is making such a big deal over the fact that he opted out and became a free agent. He did the same thing as Rivera, Posada and Pettite. NOT TO MENTION THIS IS THE SECOND TIME PETTITE HAS DONE THIS!!!! Then you, as well as other fans want to make the point that at least they were willing to “talk” to the Yankees and by not doing so, he had no respect for the team or its fans. Alex has no obligation to discuss anything with the front office. If Arod had a set price of 350 before sitting down to talk, then so be it. You mean to tell me that he isnt worth the extra money each year?? And lets be honest, the 7 million per year from the Rangers means nothing to the Yankees. The Yankees have never been conservative with their money. Just ask Pavano, Igawa and the good ole Rocket. Not to mention how much they are overpaying for Mussina and Giambi. And now they’re not willing to shell out some extra cash for the best player in baseball??!!! Yankees would always say during the season that they would not pursue him if he opted for free agency. Call it what you want, but this was an outright “threat” towards Arod. Basically telling him that he isnt worth the 21 million over 3 years they were getting from the Rangers. How do you think he felt about that? Also, i think we all belleved, along with Arod that times were about to get real tough for the Yankees with the way they pushed Joe Torre out of the organization. The Yankees have a habit of treating some of their most valuable players/coaches like crap. For example, Torre, Yogi, Martin… just to name a few. And with Hank and Hal taking over and Jorge, Rivera and Pettite up in the air, the Yankee dynasty seemed to be falling apart.
Keep in mind that this was the type of contract the Yankees took on by trading for Arod. It was his option and he took it. If the Yankees actually wanted to keep the best player in baseball, they would have attempted to do so during the season. The same goes for Jorge and Rivera. Then we wouldnt even be in this situation. And dealing with free agents during the season isn’t unheard of…. As a matter of fact, many organizations do that.
Finally, just look at it this way… during the 07 season, the Yankees had the best player in baseball, the best catcher, the best closer and the best manager (up there with Leyland and Scioscia). As of right now, they lost two out of the 4 and lets just hope they can do some damage control and keep the remaining two.
Two other players worth talking about under Cashman. Austin Jackson and Carmen Angelini.
Under previous regimes, these are two players the Yankees would have passed on because of signability issues.
Instead, the Yankees took a shot and signed both of them for well over the recommended slot.
That’s Cashman’s call as the GM. He has to approve the money.
In Jackson, its paid off very well. He has a shot at being in the Bronx as a 21 year old in 2009.
Angelini? Too early to say but, he was the first player in Wayne Graham’s 30 year career at Rice to turn down a full ride to sign with a pro team out of HS. He’s now in the Instructional League in Tampa.
The organization is moving in the right direction. Its never fast enough for the impatient but the path they are taking is the proper one.
for the record, no one is saying that cashman hasn’t made mistakes. he has.
no GM is perfect. Theo spent over $100M on Drew and Lugo this offseason, made an awful trade for Gagne, and won the WS.
but completely writing off all that Cashman has accomplished is pretty dishonest.
Cashman took over in 98, so he has 3 rings
maddog and fat boy are morons.. yeah give Jorge 4 yrs at $15 mill else the Mets will do it… Mets enjoy Jorge at 40.. if the Yanks sign him for that they are friggin morons…
I have noticed the last few days, maddog has no clue.. listen to his comments total emotion no logic.. how can a guy make avery nice living watching sports and have no clue????
Jorge at 4 yrs $15 mill is suicide……..3 yrs is it and that is a damn stretch….I rather they go thru a 1 yr rebuild and eliminate addtl. insane salaries after this yr. and then start a new.. giambi, moose, kyle, pavano, and others off the books after 2008….
Let’s take a look at SOME of Cashman’s pitching choices (I’m sure I’m forgetting a few). Yes, ALL of the following are HIS.
Jeff Weaver, Mike Mussina, Pavano, Embree, Kevin Brown, Farnsworth, Villone, Myers, Karsay, Heredia, Ponson, Erickson, Javy, Chacon, Loaiza, Osuna, Acevedo, letting Leiber go, Dotel (signing him for one year while he recuperates from TJ and not picking up the team option when he’s healthy!),
Say hello to our GM.
With David Ortiz still in his prime for at least the next 4 years, and Beckett the next 7, so NYY fans, do you see your team or any other team that can compete with the Red Sox? or should we all just write them down as WS champions for the next 4 to 7 years?
Well said, Pete.
Len B.
That was a great rant, but you’re the only person in the whole wide world who thought that Boras was classless with his timing. Even Boras said, “my bad”.
And Pettitte can do anything he wants. He’s a true Yankee. So is Posada and so is Rivera. Posada has never tested free agency and has said he wants to get a taste of it.
You’re absolutely right that we had all those wonderful ingredients and we’ve had them for years, but it didn’t bring the result that everyone was hoping. People will come and people will go, but they’ll still be the Yankees. No worries.
Oh, and Pete’s not the only one who feels this way about Alex. But it was still a great rant.
Even if you want to cherry-pick 2005 as the first year of the “true” Cashman era, I think your are still missing the point with your argument. The Yankees have won zero world titles with Cano as the 2B. They have won zero world titles since Wang has been in the rotation. Does that mean that these guys are failures? Nope.
Your evaluation has to go beyond a simple look at world titles since 2005. The most important question basically is: Is the organization heading in the right direction right now? Yes. And a lot of that is because Cashman is a good GM for the job.
There’s a difference between drafting/scouting well and being a good GM. A General Manager not only needs to scout and evaluate players successfully, but also needs to deal with other General Managers, and negotiate trades and free agent signings, just to name a few obligations.
Cashman has been a pretty good General Manager all things considered over the last few years. I’d like to address a few points:
“Roger Clemens and Kevin Brown say hello. There is a smart way of lowering payroll and a dumb way. I think Cashman is 50-50 in this area.”
Roger Clemens was a one-year deal and did not tie up payroll in any meaningful fashion. That’s one proper way of leveraging the Yankees’ financial advantage. Kevin Brown, I’ll agree, was an expensive pickup, but he, too, only had two years left on his deal at the time, and was coming off a very successful season. The Yankees didn’t exactly give up anything of significant value to pick him up, either, if I recall correctly. Cashman could have done a lot worse.
“Again, credit goes to Oppenheimer. Yes, some credit goes to Cashman for having patience with Damon’s boys.”
I think Oppenheimer deserves all the credit in the world for his ability to identify good talent in the draft, but Cashman deserves equal credit for holding on to that talent and not squandering it. I agree that you cannot give Cashman full credit for the successful scouting/development program that has been established, and neither can you give Cashman no credit.
In any event, something that really sticks out to me regarding Cashman is that he preferred Vladimir Guerrero to Gary Sheffield, and that had he full autonomy at the time, that’s who the Yankees would have signed. And when you look at all of Cashman’s moves, a lot of them are circumscribed by George’s previous signings (refusing to sign off on a smaller deal for Derek Jeter a year before Cashman was forced to sign him for significantly higher; bidding against himself for Jason Giambi).
At the same time, something that has always impressed me about Cashman was his ability to get remarkable returns in trades relative to the price he pays. There are a few exceptions, like the Neagle and Weaver trades (both of which looked pretty good at the time), but most of Cashman’s trades over the last three or four years haven’t resulted in a significant loss of talent, with the possible exception of Vázquez in the Randy Johnson deal (I would have preferred the Yankees stick with Vázquez as opposed to going after Johnson, though it has taken Javy a few years to finally assert himself in the AL). Sure, Contrearas had one good year in Chicago, but it was only one, and it’s doubtful he ever would have had that same sustained success in New York.
Mike Mussina has been a solid pitcher for the Yankees and should be removed from that list of mistakes of Cashman’s. Sure he isn’t much more than a fifth starter right now, but he was worth every penny of that contract.
“… prior to Cashman as GM and post Cashman?”
Last time i checked, Cash is still the GM, so there is no “post Cashman……”
And if you want to do pre-Cashman math, try using percentages – 3 WS rings and 5 trips in 9 years is pretty good. I’m no nobel prize winner, but I think 3/9 is greater than 26 in Yankee History………….
Not that I’m giving him 100% of the credit for those, he inherited a Championship team. But to suggest “pre-Cashman” the team was more successful is foolish and quite dumb.
Ortiz in his prime for 4 more yrs!!!!!Really the guy is overweight and 32 with bad knees… Yeah Beckett is the next Tom Seaver!!Really did you see how he did last yr.????
Sheep just spout nonsense, do you know what will happen in 2008????
No one knows…..
Dodger fan, what makes you think Ortiz will be in his prime for the next 4 years when his body is already crumbling? When fat guys lose it, they lose it quickly. I think we’ll see even less production from him next year. And Beckett is always one pitch away from the end of his dominance. Last year was the most innings he’s ever logged, I believe. We can hope he goes back to being injury-prone. I don’t think you can write them down as WS champions for the next four years. And with ARod leaving, I think we may see what Bill Simmons calls the Ewing effect. Basically, everybody is writing off the Yankees already, forgetting that we were actually a great team this season that hit upon some terrible luck at the end. If it had been us against the Sox in the ALCS, Beckett would not have looked so untouchable.
hmmm. Thanks for getting back on track with your debate.
I judge GM’s by results, and thus far, even with his own mistakes, it’s Theo 2 Brian 0.
Do I pin this all on Cashman? Of course not. But, as an evaluator of ML talent, he is lacking. I also think that Thoe has an edge in working out more creative contracts – and through no fault of his, Theo can be more conniving to his advantage.
Cashman IS doing a fine job in stabilizing the organization and I do trust him with making good financial decisions, but when it comes to talent, I’m not so confident in him. I’m not a Cashman hater, but I look ate some of his moves and they dumbfound me.
Are you kidding about mike mussina: since he signed with the yankees he has a 3.94 ERA and has won 94 games.
Oops, make that you’re the only one who feels that it wasn’t classless…my bad.
Cashman made a huge mistake with the whole A-Rod situation. They tried to play it so A-Rod wouldn’t negotiate with any other team. They lost, so now they are turning into an emotional issue instead of a business issue. Yeah. That makes good business sense.
Let the MVP go. Let a huge hole at 3rd be filled by the likes of Crede, or Beltre (doubtful) or Cabrera while giving up the farm. Let the Yankee offense become worse than every other team in the East division. All because the player did as DiMaggio or Babe would have done.
Smart.
The Yankee front office is sounding like a bunch of whiney kids crying because someone is looking to do it their way instead of the Yankee’s way.
It wasn’t the best way to handle things, but A-Rod had every bit of right to opt out. The Yankees knew he was going to. They tried to play ball with A-Rod, pitching him high and tight, and he turned on that pitch and drove it out of the park. As usual. So lets just bash him instead.
Please. A-Rod is a great player. And the Yankees might end up having that stupid move of letting him go as the legacy for the next 100 years. That like thier rivals the RS, they let go of the best player of a generation. Only this time its about emotions. Its about him not playing their way.
The Yankees seem to think they can bully their way now. Torre and A-Rod both were given a here it is, take it or leave it offer. Both declined.
Brilliant.
Ducky Bent,
Like any problem solver, I’m sure you have a solution. If Cashman is ineffective, who do you get to replace him with? Furthermore, as soon as Cashman hits the market, he’d be getting calls. Only, this time he won’t fall asleep while reading to his son Teddy.
hmmmm -
To reinforce your point about GMs – Theo didn’t do the Beckett/Lowell deal with the Marlins – he was still in the gorilla suit. Not sure – I think it was Mike Port, acting under directions of Larry the Lobster Lucchino.
It’s very hard to judge Cashman on any player moves made before 2005 – at best, the org chart was a little tangled.
What SJ and others say is true – since 2005, Cashman has improved both drafting and instruction of players. Hires like Nardi Contreras, Gil Patterson, Scott Eldred, and Dave Eiland have to take a bow (for example) for working with you ng pitchers like Kennedy, Joba and Hughes.
And I’m sick of defending the Pavano signing, which was an absolutely FANTASTIC one. NO ONE could have predicted he would break down like this; sure, he had an injury history, and it wasn’t completely out of the realm of possibility that he might have one injury-plagued season, but there were A LOT of teams aggressively pursuing Pavano that off-season, including the Boston Red Sox, and it says a lot about Cashman that he was not only able to sign him, but sign him for less than people were predicting he’d get. Had Pavano had but two injury-free seasons, I’d imagine people would be calling that deal a bargain, especially compared to the pitching market now (where the Pavano coming off the 2004 season would probably be earning $15M a year for five years, as opposed to the $10M a year the Yankees signed him for).
The Yankees still have a good offense, even without ARod, just not the best in baseball anymore. The pitching will definitely need to improve in 2008.
But their offense is certainly not the worst in the division. Toronto and Baltimore were awful offensive teams in 2007.
Pete
Blows the whistle, throws the flag. 15 yard penalty for taunting.
The Fallen Phoenix,
Excellent post. I only have time to address on thing you said and that’s regarding Vlad.
If memory serves me correctly, Vlad made it clear that he didn’t want to play in NY UNTIL there were no takers. That’s when they approached the Yanks AND MEts. Even Vlad’s mom said her son does not want to play in NY. Some thought that his new-found want to play in NY was just a tool for him to draw interests in other clubs and drive up his price. Many teams were concerned with his back problems as well.
Both NY teams were concerned about his back and said so through the media. So now you have his back and common knowledge that he didn’t want to be in the spotlight of NY, so I think the Yanks took someone who thrives in the spotlight (Sheff) over him.
In retrospect, it was a BAD move, though I understand why the Yanks decided against Vlad at the time/
I hated the Pavano signing. He was barely better than average over the course of his career, mostly in the NL no less, and then he had one career year, and so he made way more money and got way more years than he deserved. I was hoping Boston signwed him.
I figured he would be about league average at best.
The Fallen Phoenix,
The Pavano deal was NEVER a good deal. Anyone with a limited understanding of statistics can see from his record that almost nothing improved from his previous seasons to his breakout other than his ERA and W-L. He improved because his BABIP dropped dramatically. Most pitchers have little control over their BABIP, so this was merely a statistical fluke caused by luck, great fielding, and a big pitcher’s stadium in the NL. Anyone that didn’t expect him to decline (even without injuries) just wasn’t paying attention.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=1676041
Ducky Bent another good article about regarding the Cashman/Steinbrenner dynamic. From Buster Olney’s archive.
The Fallen Phoenix- I agree with you about the Pavano signing. There were many other teams after him as well, the Red Sox, Tigers, Mariners, and I forget who else. The signing has turned out to be a blessing in disguise. It has taught the Yankees to not spend as much time looking at expensive free agents. They have learned from it and they have made the adjustment to developing their own players. That adjustment is really starting to pay off especially with three young and future stars in the rotation.
Fair point, Bent. I’m still a believer that the pressures of playing in NY can be somewhat overrated (admission: I implicitly used that point in my Contreras argument, but I also acknowledge the occasional exception), but Guerrero’s back was certainly a legitimate concern, and it’s not like Sheffield was a terrible signing for the last few years (in fact, Cashman got some pretty remarkable returns for Sheffield, even if Sanchez never gets back to his pre-TJ form).
Also, to preempt those who are going to bash me in my defense of the Pavano signing, of course it has turned out to be a terrible contract in retrospect. Of course Pavano is grossly overpaid considering he’s made but a dozen starts over the life of his contract. But given the opportunity to make that signing again, I’m sure every GM in the business would probably jump at the opportunity (especially with the pitching market as it is now), because what happened with Pavano was the absolute worst-case scenario, far removed from the realm of probability.
MoPoRo,
These are professional baseball people. They calculate and plan for every contingency. They were prepared to make an offer that Alex could refuse. I think the one contingency they did not see was Alex opting out before the World Series ending and the firestorm that ensued. It couldn’t have worked out better for them, because he played right into their hand AND he made the Yankees look good. It made them look smart for drawing the line in the sand and moving on because clearly Alex is a “selfish” person in the words of the great Peter Gammons.
We all know that Alex is a great player and a perennial MVP, but is he a team player? Is it any coincidence that he’s left a trail of irritated clubhouses? Those video game numbers can only buy so much goodwill.
It was dubbed Carlpalozza. The TIgers offered him alot more than the Yankees.
I should definitely rephrase that second sentence. I can’t type at all, I meant to say that there is only one way that the signing has helped.
And when you consider that Pavano probably would have been a league-average starter in the AL, that contract still isn’t a bad one, because league-average starters are earning upwards of $10M a year.
I have knowledge of statistics and BABIP, and I am also well aware of the NL–>AL transition. In fairness, the latter has only really played out since the Pavano contract (you can probably argue Vázquez foreshadowed it), when the overall talent between the leagues really started to seriously diverge (they already had been, but I think 2003, 2004, and 2005 were the first years the gulf became as appreciatively wide as it is today). As for the former, while Pavano was nothing special in Florida, and even though 2004 was a career year that might have had little to do with substantial improvement, Pavano *was* entering his prime over the life of the contract, so it isn’t as if the possibility of improvement could have been completely discounted.
Albany:
Pettitte’s not sweating the Mitchell report.
1: SJ is correct: “In fact, if he was so concerned about being in the Mitchell Report, he would have accepted the option, since it guarantees him 16 million dollars.” Andy would get questions whether he took the money or not. So, why not take the money?
2. So his name was associated with the report about the Grimsley affidavit.
a) If I am not mistaken, the Asst. US Attorney involved
in that case came out after that report and called it
inaccurate but did not get specific about what was
inaccurate. Maybe it was nothing.
b) Wasn’t the Grimsley thing news before the 2007
season? Why wasn’t Andy too worried to pitch this year?
c) The Mitchell Group is not doing fresh, independent
investigative work on a potentially criminal matter. No
US Attorney would stand for that. Neither would Soares
in Albany. Thus, I would be shocked to see The Mitchell
Report contain new, additional or incriminating info
regarding Pettitte at least as far as the Grimsley
matter is concerned.
d) the “sweating it out” that is being guessed at behind
Pettitte’s opt out would presuppose that someone has
leaked to Andy or his agent that his name is in there in
some way. That would be pretty good intel on Andy’s part
because there’s been a pretty tight lid on the Mitchell
group so far.
No, even without knowing what would happen with Pavano, it was clearly going to be a bad signing. He was never a very good pitcher. 2004 was the only season where he was any good. It’s almost like when the Yankees fell for Jaret Wright after his career year with the Braves.
And something that is forgotten about easily is the draft picks that you lose by signing Type A and Type B free agents. Even if he was healthy, Pavano would not have been worth the cost.
I thought we agreed not to talk about Pavano anymore! It brings up so much pent up aggravation.
now the new white sox rumor is Crede and Garland…Garland is an innings eater that can win around 15 games, he doesnt K many and walks less than that…arm trouble? I dont know
“I judge GM’s by results, and thus far, even with his own mistakes, it’s Theo 2 Brian 0.”
why do you keep saying this?
it’s Brian 3 – Theo 2
just admit that you had no idea that Cashman became the GM in 1998 and we can move on.
theo just signed shilling today. if anyone thinks that cashman is keeping up with theo, they have a different standard than i do.
and the thing is, i don’t think theo has raised the bar that high. he’s just winning by default right now.
1998? Cashman GM? The team he took over that Michael, Showalter and Watson built?
OK he WAS GM, in name only. He was a kid that GS had total control over. I’d say that by 2000 he exerted more control and by 2005 he became much more “autonomous” hence most or all decisions run by his desk.
Have to run, guys and gals. I have to say, agree or disagree, this board has more informative and interesting posters than nomaas (college kids, who just left the comfort of mommy’s home, and lemmings who have gone wild and nyyfans (the site owners are Hitler and Eva) combined.
Plus, there is Pete, who is on top of things like no other.
Pete, if I can make a suggestion, it’d be to lose the nomaas link on your front page. Those morons have a field day trashing you daily.
hmmm-
i didn’t see your ongoing debate about cashman vs. theo. i had just seen on espn that shilling had signed with the red sox and was commenting on that. i’m just concerned that signing someone has become an obstacle for the yankees. they are like a salesman who can’t close a deal right now .
Have to run, guys and gals. I have to say, agree or disagree, this board has more informative and interesting posters than nobaals (college kids, who just left the comfort of mommy’s home, and lemmings who have gone wild and nwhywhyfans (the site owners are Hitler and Eva) combined.
Plus, there is Pete, who is on top of things like no other.
Pete, if I can make a suggestion, it’d be to lose the nom**s link on your front page. Those morons have a field day trashing you daily.
“Jeff Weaver, Mike Mussina, Pavano, Embree, Kevin Brown, Farnsworth, Villone, Myers, Karsay, Heredia, Ponson, Erickson, Javy, Chacon, Loaiza, Osuna, Acevedo, letting Leiber go, Dotel (signing him for one year while he recuperates from TJ and not picking up the team option when he’s healthy!),”
dude, you are clueless.
1. Mussina worked out pretty well
2. signing Lieber worked very well and letting him go worked out very well as well, not sure why you mentioned him
3. you mention Weaver and Brown. but if Weaver was so bad, then trading him for Brown couldn’t have been a bad move, huh?
4. Embree – are you serious? the guy was a waiver claim, he didn’t cost anything, they took a flier on him
5. ditto on Ponson, the guy made 3 starts. who cares?
6. Chacon was a great pickup – not sure why you mentioned him
7. Osuna – 50.1 IP, 3.73 ERA. not bad at all. Cashman traded El Duque for Osuna, and Duque missed the whole season and came back the next year. in other words, another good trade.
8. Scott Erickson pitched 11.3 innings. you are reaching.
9. Dotel – you invented this option that Cashman didn’t pick up. Dotel pitched 30.7 innings in 2007, when exactly was he healthy?
seriously, there are legitimate gripes to make with regards to Cashman, but this list is comical.
well that is good they are still on good terms.
Last comment for a bit. Work to be done.
Theo 2 Autonomous Cashman 0 .
“i’m just concerned that signing someone has become an obstacle for the yankees. they are like a salesman who can’t close a deal right now .”
yeah, it does seem like that. but rumor is that Mo is close to signing.
hopefully that gets the ball rolling.
I think hmmm nailed that one pretty well.
“1998? Cashman GM? The team he took over that Michael, Showalter and Watson built?”
and Theo didn’t inherit Manny, Pedro, Varitek, Nixon, etc.
gotcha.
keep moving the goalposts.
Let’s not make Arod the devil and Pettite the GOD here. Maybe Pettite thinks he is worth more than 16 Mil considering his good OLD buddy got 18 mil for half a season(28 mil prorated) and Pettite proved he is more important to the Yankees than the Clemens. So, if Pettite signs again with the Yanks it will definetly be for more than 16 Mil(My guess is more in the lines of 18-20 Mil).
Arod opted out of his contract to get paid beter and he is EVIL.
Andy Pettite Opts out of his contract for higer pay and he is the GOD.
Pete being a journalist I expect you to be more impartial and definetly not as biased as u r now. That is embrassing.
Can’t let hmmm get away with his babble here.
“1. Mussina worked out pretty well”
Ummm. Mussina was a GS signing. I’m talking about re-signing him last year for another 2 years. Worked out well in 2007, huh? GREAT sisgning!
“2. signing Lieber worked very well and letting him go worked out very well as well, not sure why you mentioned him”
Really? Worked out well not signing a player who proved he had the cajones to ptich well in NY? For PAVANO and Wright instead?!
“3. you mention Weaver and Brown. but if Weaver was so bad, then trading him for Brown couldn’t have been a bad move, huh?”
Dude, get a clue and make sense here. Hello?! Both were awful trades. We lost Lily and got 2 awful contracts in return.
“4,5,6,7″
I don’t care how much they cost or if it looked OK at the time. A GM is judged by results. capice?
10. Dotel. Why bother signing him for a year KNOWING he’d be out 3/4 of it and KNOWING it takes 1 1/2 yrs to fully come back? And why opt out of re-signing him while he should have been stronger the following year?
So you enjoy signing players for the hell ot it? I don’t.
You’re last argument tells me you need to sorely brush up on your knowlede of the game, players, and decision making.
It’s funny how all the kids continue to carry on about A-Fraud…as if the Yankees aren’t capable (and haven’t been capable) of winning anything without him.
Look up the history books. Without A-Fraud, the Yankees won. With him, they didn’t.
It’s often helpful to research a bit about the team before you jumped on the 2004 bandwagon.
and Theo didn’t inherit Manny, Pedro, Varitek, Nixon, etc.
gotcha.
Yep. Pedro, Nixon, etc were all part of the 2007 WS championships. The 2007 Sox team is VASTLY different than 2004. credit Theo
Give up already.
hmmm said “and Theo didn’t inherit Manny, Pedro, Varitek, Nixon, etc.
gotcha.”
Yep. Pedro, Nixon, etc were all part of the 2007 WS championships. The 2007 Sox team is VASTLY different than 2004. credit Theo
Give up already.
Hey Len B., I think mel covered most of the points, but one other re: A-Rod opting out vs. Mo and Posada testing free agency. The Yankees chose not to negotiate with them prior to last year. The team offered to negotiate with A-Rod during the season, but, as he did prior to opting out, he declined. And Pettitte is weighing retirement, not a better offer.
So, yeah, A-Rod’s a jerk. No two ways around it.
hmmm.
And ummm, Chacon became Aaron Small for less than 1/2 year. His career K/BB ratio should have been a big enough red flag to stay away.
But, yeah, according to you it was a wonderful trade, as he pitched well in a new league, with hitters who never faced him, for a couple of months.
Any other excuses for Cashman? You’re reaching.
I agree with SJ and murphydog on Andy Pettitte.
To those who are trying so hard to look for hidden reasons/Mitchell Report link to explain why he needs more time to think about returning, what’s wrong with the reason he gave?
Andy is well known for more than a decade now as a family man. His family lives in Houston, he has 4 kids and this past season one of his sons had an accident while Andy was playing. And don’t forget, the season was over not that long ago, these guys need time to absorb and make sense of things. I know I would.
It’s completely logical to take more time to ask yourself, do I want to spend another year from my kids if we end up existing in the first-round? Maybe he wants to come back but he needs more time to talk to his wife. To me that’s a much more logical explanation than the Mitchell Report. And by the way, the attorney office has said there was gross inaccuacy in the earlier report where Andy and Clemens’ names were mentioned.
Uhh, Dee, you probably aren’t aware of this, but it’s pretty common knowledge that the “family man” left NY the first time, primarily under orders from his wife, so he’d be far away from his NY mistress.
(blockquote)(b)Beltre, 28(b) hasn’t approached the 2004 numbers (48 homers, .629 slugging percentage) that prompted the Mariners to give him a five-year, $64-million deal, but he hits with some power and fields his position well. He has two years and $24 million left on his deal, although he has a limited no-trade clause that could complicate matters.
(b)Cabrera, 24(b)will be shopped because of the Marlins’ need to cut payroll; he could earn $10 million through arbitration in 2008. He possesses massive talent but has concerned the baseball industry by not controlling his weight. Cabrera played for new Yankees manager Joe Girardi with the 2006 Marlins.
(blockquote)
(i)testing(i)
blockquote),Beltre, 28 hasn’t approached the 2004 numbers (48 homers, .629 slugging percentage) that prompted the Mariners to give him a five-year, $64-million deal, but he hits with some power and fields his position well. He has two years and $24 million left on his deal, although he has a limited no-trade clause that could complicate matters.
Cabrera, 24 will be shopped because of the Marlins’ need to cut payroll; he could earn $10 million through arbitration in 2008. He possesses massive talent but has concerned the baseball industry by not controlling his weight. Cabrera played for new Yankees manager Joe Girardi with the 2006 Marlins.(blockquote).
(blockquote),Beltre, 28 hasn’t approached the 2004 numbers (48 homers, .629 slugging percentage) that prompted the Mariners to give him a five-year, $64-million deal, but he hits with some power and fields his position well. He has two years and $24 million left on his deal, although he has a limited no-trade clause that could complicate matters.
Cabrera, 24 will be shopped because of the Marlins’ need to cut payroll; he could earn $10 million through arbitration in 2008. He possesses massive talent but has concerned the baseball industry by not controlling his weight. Cabrera played for new Yankees manager Joe Girardi with the 2006 Marlins.(blockquote).
still getting the hang of this guys
“Arod opted out of his contract to get paid beter and he is EVIL.
Andy Pettite Opts out of his contract for higer pay and he is the GOD.
Pete being a journalist I expect you to be more impartial and definetly not as biased as u r now. That is embrassing.”
NYY –
Please be fair. I don’t remember Pete has ever criticized any player including Arod for wanting more money. These guys are in a big-money business. we all recognize that and Pete sure does.
I think Pete and other Arod critics take issue in the way Arod has handled his opt-out. Not the fact that he has chosen to opt out at all as it was his right, it was in his contract. The way he professed his love for NY and then didn’t even have the courtest to return Steins and Cash’s phone calls. the way he chose to opt out on the first day possible instead of taking his 10 days. The WS timing. Calling SI before cashman and then implied that maybe Cashman was the source of the leak. And using Mo, Po and Andy as excuses for opting out.
None of these issues are about getting more money that a player deserves. The issue is about how Arod handles things, about respect and decency, which is the only thing Pete has had a problem with.
Ducky –
Seriously there was a mistress?? Never heard of that or are you just pulling my leg?
Either way I assume all these guys have multiple mistresses but my point is I don’t find his “family” reason for possibly retiring to be so hard to believe.
Dee and others, all I can say is be very weary of Hendricks’s clients, including Andy and Roger. Things usually aren’t as rosey as they want it to seem.
Ducky –
I’m curious. Give me an example…
Yes, Dee, it was reported by many that the primary reason Andy left NY the first time was at his wife’s insistence to move away from his NY mistress.
Don’t get me wrong, many players aren’t choir boys, but the press and some fans have this need to portray some players as angels. They have short memories or are in denial.
The Hendricks Bros represent Andy/Roger and uded to rep Knoblauch. With them and thier clients comes much drama -retiring/unretiring. etc- see Clemens – as a bargaining tool.
He did the same to the Yanks. Once Pettitte signed, I KNEW Roger would come along, yet he and the hendricks brothers acted as if they needed some coaxing. It was all about the big bucks, and Clemens took the Yanks for a huge money ride. The same Clemens who “retired” a few years earlier.
With Clemens and Hendricks you get ridiculous, special clauses, like Roger’s that distant you from the rest of the team.
The drama that their clients exhibit year after year is disconcerting. I want Andy for 2008, we actually need him. But, if he’s either not 100% into pitching OR has doubts (wants to be with family) then I say good riddance. Give the spot to someone who WANTS and ENJOYS playing baseball for the NY Yankees.
Is anybody else having problems with this site not responding, like when refreshing?
BTW, it’s even discussed (Andy’s infidelity) in this old Peter blog, where Peter said Andy’s wife stared reporters down with daggers when it was mentioned if Andy will pitch for the Yanks in 2006. Funny how money can change people’s minds:
http://www.lohud.com/blogs/200.....-move.html
That Chacon trade worked out very nicely. The Yankees would’ve been sitting home in october in 2005 if not for him. Maybe you can criticize Cashman for not capitalizing on Chacon’s high perceived value and trading him that offseason before his mess of a 2006 half season with the Yankees. But the trade for Chacon was a good one.
Re the above post. Pete isn’t saying it, a couple of posters talk about it. Though I’m sure Pete has heard about the “affair” as well.
drizzle, I mentioned that Chacon had an awesome couple of months. Was it because hitters never faced him? Could be. But after that he was atrocious and more in line with the rest of his career.
He always had control problems. What made Cashman think it would improve over the long haul in NY, ESPECIALLY under Mel? So yes, for a couple of months it looked good, but he was pitching way over his head and nowhere near his norm.
That’s why I mentioned Aaron Small in the same breath. Cinderella stories, though Chacon’s was much shorter-lived.
No I don’t think Chacon was part of any long-term plan. Most deadlines deal that are not of the blockbuster variety are for short-term purposes. Chacon did very well for 2005 and so that trade was worth it for that reason alone. Cashman could have done even better by trading Chacon before 2006 started. That was a mistake. But the benefit of making the postseason outweighed the mistake of keeping him too long.
drizzle, I can’t argue with your logic. Good points.
I agree with your thoughts on Lieber. They should have kept him. Replacing him essentially with Jaret Wright was beyond stupid.
And you’re right on the money with Dotel as well. They had to know that guys coming off of TJ surgery are more than a 1 year project.
Yep. Dotel’s signing, even for “only” a million was mind-boggling, considering that he wanted to play for the Yanks the following year though the Yanks decided against keeping him.
Why take him on during a year he needs to recover from TJ and not the following year(s)? Made no sense whatsoever.
i’m not going to re-hash the Dotel argument b/c we had one over the summer that went on forever.
to summarize, Cashman tried to get Dotel to take a 2 year deal and Dotel refused.
there are quotes from Cashman at the time of the signing that said that.
Dotel wanted a 1 year deal to prop up his value and then cash in, and it worked out perfectly for him.
Let’s assume you are correct for hypothetical reasons. Is it wise to sign a pitcher coming off of TJ for only a year?
Either way, it was a bad move by Cashman. And for the Yanks to show no interest in re-signing him after the recovery season made no sense. Why even bother for a one year deal then?
Ducky –
Thanks for the background story. I take everything with a grain of salt, but it’s fun gossips:-)
All those on Arod watch can take a small vacation.
Boston won’t do anything until they sign Lowell and Bor-ass won’t do anything until he has negotiated with Boston.
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