Today in The Journal News
-
- November
- 7
Miguel Cabrera is a player of interest to the Yankees and Joe Girardi can vouch for him.
Brian Cashman and Omar Minaya were among the GMs who voted in favor of instant replay. This notebook from the GM Meetings also has updates on Alex Rodriguez, Andy Pettitte and some minor Mets moves.
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If you’re a regular reader of his blog or The Journal News, then you knew eight days ago that the Yankees would offer A-Rod arbitration.
It’s 99-1 that Scott Boras would accept, as it would mean a one-year deal and public scorn. He’s done it in the past with clients like Kevin Millwoods. But A-Rod is no Kevin Millwood.
The Yankees will get a compensation pick from the team that signs Alex and a first-round “sandwich” pick. As Brian Cashman told us last month, he wants those picks.
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on Wednesday, November 7th, 2007 at 9:47 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
ARod will prosper somewhere………….Teams sign talent, not integrity……IE…….Cleveland signs Byrd.
The Yankees aren’t getting Miguel Cabrera without giving up Hughes, Chamberlain, or Kennedy for starters. Add that to rumors that Cabrera likes the nightlife and is putting on weight and no dice.
Peter,
I don’t know how much you read these comments, but, if you do, I have a very important question. There is supposedly some CBA provision that you can only sign 3 Type A/B FAs if there are 39-62 of them available in a given year. Now, the only exception I can find for that referring to your own FAs is that they do not count towards that 3-player limit if they are signed before the Monday deadline when anyone can sign them. so, to be specific, if the Yankees lock up Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte after Monday, they cannot sign Andruw Jones, Lowell, Rodriguez, or anyone else they’d even want. Can you confirm or deny this?
Steve,
If I’m correct, that rule does not apply to a team’s own FAs.
“a player of interest” I love it. That’s a play on the term I first recall being used for the suspect in the Atlanta Olympic Bombing, the security guard, Richard Jewell. (A person of interest). Jewell fit the profile really well, a square badge who would have planted the bomb to make himself look like the hero. Turns out it wasn’t him, but he was hounded mercilessly by the media. He later joined a local PD after the controversy died down and he just passed away at 44 years old.
Anyway, Cabrera is on the Yankee radar and that’s just due diligence by the Yankees. If it turns out to be something more I’d be surprised. The Marlins will want a lot of cheap young pitching for him and will likely be pigs in their demands to the Yankees (Joba, Huhges AND Kennedy for Cabrera!) Cabrera has a lot to prove to me if he wants a long term contract at the superstar salary level in exchange for top flight pitching. He can seem really excited about playing in NY, but excitement fades and bad habits return. IMO Cash will walk away from a Cabrera deal.
B.t.w. what’s wrong with Mike Lowell for 3-4 years? Yeah he’s 33 but check this:
Giambi and Abreu will be off the books after next year (Giambi’s $21M + Abreu’s $16M = $37M total for 2008 – 5M Giambi’s buyout for 2009 = $32M cleared after ‘08).
Damon and Matsui will be off the books after 2009 (Damon’s $13M + Matsui’s $13M = $26M total cleared after 2009).
The Yanks starting nine in 2010 the third year of Lowell’s contract, would be mostly unknown:
Posada assuming he re-signs-C
Cano-2B
Lowell-3B
Jeter-SS or LF (he moves there after 2009),
he probably remains at SS
1B, OF & DH T.B.D.
That’s 5 new everyday guys. You have to hope/ figure Lowell isn’t expected to be one of the lead guys.
murphydog
Cashman would laugh in the Marlins’ g.m.’s ear if he asked for Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy. Strange beginning of the post by you bro.
Steve:
I don’t believe that applies to your own players in any form. I have yet to hear any team exec mention it.
Piguel–Look at Lowell’s spray chart and his home/away splits.
That’s why you don’t sign him.
Posada would most likely be the DH by 2010 and the Yanks would have a new catcher by then. Lowell could move to 1B at some point. It’d all depend on who was signed, acquired via trade, and coming up in the organization 2008-09 and who was available after ‘09.
Murray Chass had an interesting article in the Times about A-Rod, which included:
“The more Boras talks the more he sounds like he thinks he erred by orchestrating the opt-out clause with Rodriguez. Maybe Boras was calling the Yankees’ bluff, and now may see that they are serious about not talking to A-Rod to play third base. Any agent with a player like A-Rod for a client would want the Yankees to drive up the bidding. The question now is if there is anyone else to drive up the bidding? Boras has almost always achieved his goals for his superstar clients, finding some team to bid big. But is there a team among the other 29 prepared to make his and A-Rod’s day?”
I really hope this all blows up in Boras’s face. I think A-Rod will get a ton of money, but I think it will be hard to find a better deal than what the Yankees had on the table.
Predicting what the 2009 line-up is going to look like is a waste of time. Joba was picking corn in Nebraska two years ago.
Steve, I’ve been looking into that very same thing.
I have seen it written on various sites that the quota stated in the rules for limitations on how many FA type A or B you sign don’t apply for the team that lost them. They can sign as many FA type A’s as they lost to FA.
“B.t.w. what’s wrong with Mike Lowell for 3-4 years? Yeah he’s 33 but check this:”
If he’s willing to sign a deal of three years, it’ll be with the Sox. The Yanks could offer a Damon-deal, where they give the 4th year, but…well, contracts are usually back-loaded, so in two years they’d probably be paying 16 mil for a guy with an OPS around .800, which you can get for a LOT cheaper.
Mike Lowell was considered a washed-up $9 mil albatross when the RS were forced to take him in the Beckett deal and now people want to throw 4 years and $60 mil to watch him spiral down the tubes as a Yankee. Unbelievable. This is why the RS are winning titles and the Yankees are declining.
They got lucky with Lowell (and realize it) and are moving on to ARod while we covet their used garbage. Wow.
Um, Gargoyle, I doubt the Sox are moving on to A-Rod unless the price goes down significantly.
Yep the NYPost is a little slow. They are making it like it is big news.
I still think there’s already a deal in place, just won’t be announced for some time to avoid tampering charges. Why else would he opt out at the time he did?
O.k. Rebecca then who do you get for 3B who isn’t named A-Rod or Lowell? Lowell is the best available option among free agent 3B, he knows it, and the Yanks will have to overpay for him if they want him. By your logic that Lowell is just a Fenway hitter, you wouldn’t trade Giambi or Matsui for David Ortiz cuz guess what? He’s a Fenway hitter hence why he signed with Boston long-term at a bargain price.
Crede is a complete unknown quantity who has exactly one really good year (2006). No way would I trade Damon for him straight up. The Yanks could do way better than Crede if they wanted to trade Damon. ‘Best to wait ’til he’s nontendered by the Chi-Sox (if he is) and sign him them. Beltre isn’t all that, he has been a bust for Seattle for the most part but he’s still young and had a decent 2007 thus I don’t see Seatle just handing him. I don’t wanna hear Pedro Feliz (good glove but no bat).
Anyone who isn’t a free agent will cost farm system players and the Marlins will want at least one of The Young Guns (Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy). That is why you sign Lowell.
And I did say the Yanks will most likely have new players at
C, 1B, and the OF, possibly SS if Jeter moves to LF in 2010.
Piguel–There isn’t any one option that jumps out…but Mike Lowell’s played for Boston, and I’d be wary of signing any player that Boston lets go, because they ARE our biggest rivals, and who knows if they know something we don’t.
I would probably trade for Atkins, but only if I can leave the Trinity untouched.
Steve:
I said Cash would walk away.
Piguel
There’s nothing wrong with having a less than stellar short term fix at 3B until something better comes along – especially on a team that is not a legitimate title contender. Locking themselves in longterm with Lowell precludes them from making a better move down the line and believe me, given the Yankees resources a better alternative will eventually open up. The fallacy is thinking that they have to solve all their weaknesees by Opening day. They don’t.
Atkins is not supposed to be available despite rumors to the contrary.
That usually means it would take a heavy trade to get it done.
There is an excellent 3rd baseman who can hit that is currently unemployed…
Just saying.
MoPoRo: Can’t hit, but comes up quite clutch in game 7s against Boston
There is no rush in filling the 3B hole immediately. I think if Boston doesn’t make an honest offer to Lowell, then they clearly did have a deal in place for Arod.
I think Mike Lowell would be a mistake if signed by the Yankees to a deal longer than 3 years. I agree with the notion that it is better to sign a FA, instead of giving up prospects.
Any deal for Miguel Cabrera would be a waste. We didn’t win with Alex Rodriguez at 3B, then why would we with the inferior Miguel Cabrera? It’s impossible to find a 3B that will have a better year than Alex did.
The Yankees main focus should be in retaining Jorge, Mariano, and Petitte. Then shoring the bullpen to make a strength, and find starting pitching. It makes no sense to me to trade any of the following Joba, Hughes or Kennedy. I think Cashman is making a huge mistake if he continues trying to build a bullpen with a bunch of no-names.
gargoyle
Oh you mean the 2007 World Series M.V.P. Lowell who just came off a career season? He is not washed up. I never said 4 years, $15M/yr., $60M. I said 3-4 year and didn’t specify an amount. If it were up to me and market forces didn’t dictate anything, I’d offer the guy 2 years @ $10M/yr. = $20M but didn’t have to throw that in. Learn to read idiot.
My point which you knowitall Peter Abraham blog vultures who haven’t come up with someone better than Lowell (forget A-Rod! forget Cabrera when the Marlins will want one of the three young arms and don’t insult my intelligence and tell me the Yanks are getting him for Melky, Ohlendorf, Sanchez, and a thrown in!) is the Yanks will have two major salaries off the books in 2008 then 2009 ($58M off the books total) thus will have lots of new players at many positions who could make Lowell the bottom of the order guy he will probably be in 2009 or 2010. Right now, he’s the #6 hitter between lefties Matsui (#5) and Cano (#7).
Even if Lowell posts a pedestrian .270 BA, 22 HR, 83 RBI for the 2008 Yanks so what and guess what? That’s better than what Betemit who’s never been an everyday player in M.L.B., Crede with his one great year, or Feliz will do.
What the Yankees would have to give up for Miguel Cabrera depends on how badly the Marlins want rid of him. If the Marlins are so sick of him that they will part with him and forget about any of the Big Three, then the Yankees should jump on that. More than likely, however, the Marlins will ask for the best that the Yankees have to offer. The Marlins are very good at getting great young talent in return whenever they make a trade.
I’m sure that the Marlins are very tired of Cabrera’s act, but they are probably willing to stick with him until somebody wows them with terrific young talent in return. The Yankees may also be looking as this with the view that a change of scenery may help Cabrera. It could also make Cabrera realize that he may be running out of chances. It’s time for him to get in shape and straighten out his attitude problem. It sure would be a pity to see all of that great talent of his go to waste.
Maddux also accepted arbitration from Atlanta 5 or 6 years ago and he’s a Boras client.
If you believe A-Rod is only about signing record contracts, and the market in the next few weeks doesn’t expand to what Boras expected, why wouldn’t they accept arbitration and go for the biggest 1 year contract ever paid. It may not be a contract that would pay him the biggest amount over an extended period of time but A-Rod’s worst year would still get him a good contract before the 2009 season if they couldn’t reach a longer term deal with the Yankees before then.
Bottom line is this—-If the Yanks can get Cabrera for I Kennedy, Melky, Horne and another player you HAVE to do that deal. Then sign Tori Hunter(great teammate and can move to LF in 2-3 yrs) to a 4-5 yr deal. Miguel Cabrera is easily one of the most feared hitters in baseball….easily in the top 5 and he is only 24. The guy can flat out rope the ball. I wouldnt give up Hughes or Joba but Kennedy will need to be included to get it done.!!
Damon
Jeter
Bobby
Cabrera
Matsui
Posada
Hunter/Rowand
Cano
Phillips
Andy
Wang
Hughes
Joba
Moose
now they need to get 2 good arms for the pen and the Yanks will be getting busy again in 08!!!
The Yankees, not we… the Yankees didn’t win in the post season for a number of reasons. The biggest being pitching sucked.
Blaming one player for not hitting when a ton of others weren’t hitting is absurd. A-Rod carried the team in the early season, or there wouldn’t have been a post season.
Reading the hatred for the man here tells me that DiMaggio and Babe Ruth would be every bit as hated today as A-Rod is. Don’t like that he wants to be paid at what he believes is his due, that is one thing. Carrying the hatred to this level though comes off childish.
The Yankees seem to like taking a hard line against a players desires, but when it gets turned back on them they cry foul? Hank and Hal and Cashman should either come clean with their true reasons for not wanting A-Rod, or they should grow up.
I don’t really like any of the third base options.
Lowell’s numbers will be way down outside of Boston, and he also made 15 errors this year.
Crede is avearge, but is now coming off back surgery. Plus, I don’t like the idea of trading Damon to get him.
Cabrera is a great player, but he’ll cost the Yankees to much to trade for him.
Atkins is tempting, but some of his home/away spilts are scary..
I’m just not confident about any of them… Am I the only one that feels this way?
gargoyle
If it were up to me and market forces didn’t dictate it, I’d offer him 2 years @ $10M/yr. = $20M, but that’s not happening. The Yanks will have to overpay him if they want him and he’s better/ surer bet to be productive at 3B than Betemit, Crede, or Feliz, deal with it.
I don’t see him hurting the Yanks cuz again, Giambi, Abreu, Damon, and Matsui will most likely be off the books in the next two years (former two after 2008, latter two after 2009), so lots of new guys coming 2009-10 to make Lowell the bottom of the order guy he will be in 2009 or 2010. He’d be no different than the Yanks overpaying for 2008 Damon and DON’T tell me 2008 Damon is worth $13M or more.
You people want to lose as many as 40 HR and 90-100 RBI at 3B from taking a chance with Betemit, Crede, or Feliz, be my guest. I’ll be more than happy with Lowell posting something between his 2006 and 2007 as close to his 2007 as possible. Gimme .273, 22 HR, 85 RBI, and good defense and I’m happy. I’ll root for him while you all cry about not having Miguel Cabrera. You’ll cry when you see Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy being the Yanks’ version of Scott Kazmir for the Marlins while Cabrera turns into my username at $20M or more a year.
This is all grandstanding and a negotiating tactic by both sides. Cashman isn’t going to publicly say that he’d willingly trade one of the 3 pitchers so that the Marlins can ream him for more.
If the Marlins told Cash today, that he can have Cabrera for Kennedy, Tabata and another player like Melke, Cashman would do it without blinking an eye.
I’m not saying I’d like or dislike that trade, but you don’t give up a player of Miggy’s magnitude – easily one of the 3-4 top hitters in baseball – without giving up something. Cashman will see this as a proven superstar vs. unproven talent (Tabata, Kennedy) at the MLB level, no matter their upside. Plus, those Yanks would come cheap, a must in any deal with the Marlins.
This is a risk Cashman would certainly take. We are talking a Manny-like hitter in his prime.
Perhaps, and I’m just guessing here, the Yankees don’t feel like he’s actually worth 32mil a year. Which would be a 15mil dollar a year raise mind you.
If Miguel Cabrera becomes a Yankee we will forget ARod ever existed. He’ll put up similar numbers without the dog and pony show.
Ok so for those wanting to get Miguel Cabrera..
What is to much of an asking price?
Is there anybody you wouldn’t trade for him?
I mean personally, Hughes for Cabrera stright up, I wouldn’t do.
D Man-
You are definitely not alone. With the players available the team would be better off using what they have in house to handle 3B. Use the money were saving on A-Job and boalster the bullpen.
Pitching right now remains the biggest concern for the Yankees. Pettitte had to have a lot of convincing from Torre to come back instead of retiring.
Oops, Torre is gone. And while Pettitte has said that isn’t going to factor into his decision, and I believe him, it will still play a factor. Torre won’t be there to talk to him and cajole him into returning.
Cash and Hank have stated no talking to A-Rod if he opts out. Fine and dandy. Oops, A-Rod opts out. Gaping hole in the offense, young pitching staff coming up that will need run support, yet the Yankees won’t deal with one of the best players in the game. He didn’t play their way, so they are taking the ball and going home.
Posada and Mariano asked to have talks about extentions in Spring Training. Oops, no the Yankees don’t do that, except they tried to get A-Rod to talk, but he said no. Now both Mo and Posada will probably get larger and longer contracts because the Yankees don’t do talks early.
I love the Yankees. I am not so wild lately about the actions of Cashman and the ownership.
While I think A-Rod blew it with his opting out, that shouldn’t preclude the Yankees from making an offer. So, in my opinion the Yankees blew it as well.
Funny. When a team sets up guidelines to follow, it is done to show everyone how things are done with them. Yet, the Yankees didn’t follow their own guidelines twice so far this year. Its burnt them twice as well.
The more I think of it, the more I think the Miguel Cabrera trade is a good thing IF it is Melky, Horne or Kennedy, and a position player not named Jose or Austin. My daughters were in tears about losing Melky this morning, but I am coming around to it. I wonder if the concern about discipline/weight, etc. will drive the price for the Yankees down.
Didn’t Miggy hit that intentional walk pitch a year or so ago? Or was that Vlad?
Conspiracy inquiry: Did the Yankees let Pettitte take his time deciding to lessen the pressure to trade away Phil, Joba or Ian? If they have Andy, it appears they have an excess of starting pitching?
Piguel,
Have you actually seen Lowell’s hit chart? He is a dead pull hitter who hits the Monster like it’s his job… which it is. You put him in Yankee Stadium with that vacuous left field and he’s a .250-.260 hitter.
Lowell isn’t built for Yankee Stadium. Signing him would be a boneheaded move.
Well they do and they don’t… Don’t forget that both Hughes and Joba will be on strict inning counts.. Kennedy probably won’t be.
But, The Yankees will need to figure something out because they can’t have Hughes and Joba pitch the entire season..
So that excess of pitching is what helps them.. Having Moose, Igawa, Karstens, etc will help slow down how quickly Hughes and Joba get to those innings limit.
People you have to realize something about the next 3B. He will not come anywhere close to A-Rod unless he’s Miguel Cabrera but who knows with him? That means whoever is signed will probably be a #6 hitter at best (Damon/ Jeter/ Abreu/ Posada/ Matsui batting 1-5) you push further down in the lineup with new, better players in 2009-10 at the positions Giambi, Abreu, Damon, and Matsui will probably vacate when their contracts are up although I’m hoping Abreu and/ or Matsui will be good enough to stick around after their contracts are up.
There’s been speculation on N.Y. radio and in the N.Y. papers today that Cashman/ the Yanks will not give up Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy for Cabrera. GOOD! As a matter of fact, I just heard it on 1050 ESPN Radio in N.Y. and it doesn’t sound unreasonable. Remember, Pettitte is no lock to return, Mussina will most likely be gone after 2008, Igawa will most likely remain the $46M bust he is, and Johann Santana is no lock to be signed, so the Yanks need to hold onto as many of their starting pitchers as they can. They can’t afford to give up the farm for a guy who already loves the nightlife, wants to boogie, and is getting bigger around the waist.
Signing Lowell ensures the Yanks can hold onto Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy. Going with Crede, Feliz, Beltre, or Betemit at 3B could cost the 2008 Yanks the postseason. Beltre is the best of the four but who knows with him? The guy was invisible and looking like a $65M bust (what he got after his career year with L.A. he has yet to come anywhere close to) until he had his decent 2007.
thepetitionsite.com/1/end08atys
End 2008 at Yankee Stadium =D
People you have to realize something about the next 3B. He will not come anywhere close to A-Rod unless he’s Miguel Cabrera but who knows with him? That means whoever is signed will probably be a #6 hitter at best (Damon/ Jeter/ Abreu/ Posada/ Matsui batting 1-5) you push further down in the lineup with new, better players in 2009-10 at the positions Giambi, Abreu, Damon, and Matsui will probably vacate when their contracts are up although I’m hoping Abreu and/ or Matsui will be good enough to stick around after their contracts are up. It’s a sorry state of affairs in M.L.B. when there’s so much focus on two free agents (A-Rod and Lowell).
There’s been speculation on N.Y. radio and in the N.Y. papers today that Cashman/ the Yanks will not give up Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy for Cabrera. GOOD! As a matter of fact, I just heard it on 1050 ESPN Radio in N.Y. and it doesn’t sound unreasonable. Remember, Pettitte is no lock to return, Mussina will most likely be gone after 2008, Igawa will most likely remain the $46M bust he is, and Johann Santana is no lock to be signed, so the Yanks need to hold onto as many of their starting pitchers as they can. They can’t afford to give up the farm for a guy who already loves the nightlife, wants to boogie, and is getting bigger around the waist.
Signing Lowell ensures the Yanks can hold onto Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy. Going with Crede, Feliz, Beltre, or Betemit at 3B could cost the 2008 Yanks the postseason. Beltre is the best of the four but who knows with him? The guy was invisible and looking like a $65M bust (what he got after his career year with L.A. he has yet to come anywhere close to) until he had his decent 2007.
Miguel Cabrera is a hitting machine and if it takes Kennedy,Melky or Tababta and other young lower level pitchers to make it happen it has to GET DONE!!!
Dman, I’d do Kennedy, Tabata and a lesser prospect for Miggy and a Marlin prospect.
I’d cut off my right arm if somebody can assure me that Tabata will be another Miggy at the plate. He very well might be, but what are the odds?
As for Kennedy, yeah, he showed some promise, but geez, what did he pitch, all of 19 innings? That’s not to say he won’t be a stud, but that’s a big IF.
We already know what Miggy can do, and only 1-2 (or 3) players in baseball do it better.
Fine, if the Yankees don’t feel he is worth 32 million a year. If that is the case then say it. Don’t go saying that the texas money meant that much to a team that threw a contract worth 28 million to clemens. While it was pro-rated, it was still a lot of money for a .500 pitcher, even with the mentoring he did.
A-Rod is just as positive an influence on the youngsters of the team. He was out there early every day working out and guess what, others joined him.
A far better thing to do would have been to say the best offer we will make will come if you don’t opt out. Any offer we make subsequent to your opting out will always be reduced by the 21 million PLUS the luxury taxes we would have to pay. That is proper business.
The Yankees thought they could keep A-Rod from seeing what offers he would get. After his monster season it could be a lot. Boras and A-Rod blew it with their timing. Who knew they would do something so stupid.
Yet, A-Rod right now isn’t at his premium value, and the Yankees might let him walk away, even at a cheaper price than what they were originally offering, because they gave their word.
Its business, yet everyone keeps bringing emotions into it.
Nud, I couldn’t agree more. We aren’t talking about a prospect here in Miggy. We KNOW what he can do. And he can probably do it in the clutch better than ARod. Who can forget the HR he hit off Clemens as a 20 yr old, AFTER Clemens sent him to the ground.
As long as Joba and Hughes aren’t moved, it might be worth it. I just think it is not that big of a problem to plug in a defensive minded 3B with an average bat. PITCHING, PITCHING PITCHING!
The Yankees offense will still be one of the elites, even without Arod. Get some arms Cashman!
If they are going to deal one of our big three, wait for Santana.
Yes, because AROD would gladly take a contract 50Mil less from the Yankees than someone else would be willing to pay him. That makes absolute sense to me. It really does.
Assuming he doesn’t eat the dog and pony…
Rafael
November 7th, 2007 at 11:12 am
As long as Joba and Hughes aren’t moved, it might be worth it. I just think it is not that big of a problem to plug in a defensive minded 3B with an average bat. PITCHING, PITCHING PITCHING!
The Yankees offense will still be one of the elites, even without Arod. Get some arms Cashman!
I agree with you to a degree there.
I’d rather see the Yankees pay more attention to their bullpen rather than 3B.
Thats just me though, I know a lot of people see big hole at 3B..
The bullpen should be #1 on the list though.
Let’s say Kennedy, Cabrera, and Horne lands Miguel Cabrera and Pettitte returns for 2008. The 2008 Yanks rotation is Pettitte/ Wang/ Hughes/ Chamberlain/ Mussina.
What if any two between Hughes, Chamberlain, and Mussina suck or get knocked out for 2 or more months with injury? Hello Kei Igawa and Jeff Karstens, goodbye 2008 postseason.
Who are the Yanks getting for the 2008 rotation then? Let’s not annoint Joba and Hughes, who have 13 and 0 career M.L.B. starts (13 total between them), the second coming of 2001 Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling just yet folks.
Oh, but “Miguel Cabrera posted .327 with 45 HR and 137 RBI dude”. Great, he’s 2001-03 A-Rod cuz guess what? He might as well be A-Rod in Texas and it might as well be 2001-03 with no postseason for the Yanks.
With Mike Lowell, you have the same rotation with Kennedy as
insurance.
ATM I might add that Melke and Cano were drawn to ARod as well. Seems like Captain Jeter’s army were the players who were standoffish toward A-Rod over something that Jeter couldn’t get over 7 years later.
And you are correct. Emotions should play no part in the Yanks decision (or the fans reactions). Unfortunately, that seems to be the case here. Shame on the Yanks.
If A-Rod never played for the Yanks, and the Yanks were in need of a 3rd baseman, you’d bet your bottom dollar that they’d go after him and hard. But, because of emotions, the Yanks will either have to give up players to get the new 3rd baseman and could wind up paying the new guy 15-20 mil, for a much lesser player (other than Miggy).
Not a very sound business move on their part.
Um, ATM, Boras and A-Rod wouldnt meet with the Yankees specifically b/c they didn’t want to negotiate before he was a free agent. They said the price to talk was $350 million — I am not sure what you are suggesting the proper response to that absurdity should have been. I am comfortable with that they did, particularly given A-Rod’s thin skin and how awful next year could be for him at Yankee Stadium.
The Yankees won a World Series with Scott Brosius at 3B. He clearly is nowhere near as good as Arod, but they still won it all. Playoff series are won by whoever has the hottest pitching at the moment. The Yankees are examples of why you can’t slug your way thru the playoffs.
Here’s to hoping Cashman finally gets it.
Rivera came off an injury plagued September in 2006 and Cashman wanted to see if Rivera was going to bounce back. I don’t think that was a bad business move. Also, 2007 was one of Mo’s worst seasons as a closer, not horrible, but not standard Mo.
Posada was also a guy who had a career year during a contract year – go figure. The Yankees have money to spend. It’s not our money. Who cares if the Yankees ends up paying 3 yrs $40 mil or 3 yrs $50 mil for Mo and Po? So long as it’s 3 years.
With Hughes and Joba on inning limits/pitch count watches (they both pitched 114 innings last year – Kennedy 165) the Yanks should play it smart and keep both in AAA at the start of next season since we won’t need a 5th until June, and use a platoon of Rasner/Karstens/Clippard/Igawa for the occassional 5th when needed using a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, and Kennedy. keep Joba and Hughes on strict IP limits in AAA. Bring them both up come June and watch their limits depending on how the season is progressing. (This is all assuming there’s no roster changes between now and Spring Training).
Bingo. The Yankees need role players and pitchers, not superstars.
Don’t give away pieces of the puzzle for super stars or mediorce players.
I couldn’t agree more Rafael. A decent bat and solid D is what we need from 3B. Pitching, Pitching, and a little more Pitching.
I love it when guys make these kind of statements. As if you know what each and every player on the Yankees is thinking. How do you know who was standoffish towards whom?
Why does it have to be emotional? Could it be that the Yankees don’t want to pay the 40% premium for Sir A-Rod’s production? No of course not, the Yankees don’t think rationally when it comes to signing free agents.
Why is everybody so hot to trade for a young guy who has yet to prove what he’s all about as a person and who obviously doesn’t understand what a privilege it is to play baseball at this level?
The Marlins would be crazy not to ask for at least two pitchers, and probably they will start by asking for Hughes and somebody else, not Kennedy and somebody else. And if I’m going to give up a starter and a prospect pitcher plus someone like Melky or Tabata I’m not doing that for a young kid who gives off even a whiff of taking his gifts for granted. There are lots of talented young players who flamed out early because of a poor work ethic or general head problems.
The Yankees need to replace some power on the right side. Sometimes it’s not as simple a matter of getting the guy with the best numbers from the right side. I’m not worried that Cash will overpay.
If the Yankees are going to trade away young players, especially pitchers, it should be for established bullpen guys.
That should be the Yankees #1 concern right now.
If Wilson Betemit wasn’t on the Yankees, we’d all be saying they should trade for him. So why not give him the job on opening day and see what he can do? If he sucks, a replacement will be available by the trading deadline.
The solution is so obvious it’s painful.
Hughes and Chamberlain are going nowhere.
Losing A-Rod doesn’t just mean they need a competent 3b.
They are going to need a big bat to play 1b because they have wasted that spot for years with below avg production.
As far as trading for a 3b, I would not move Hughes or Joba under any circumstances and would ONLY move Kennedy for Johan Santana – possibly Miguel Cabrera too but he’d have to sign an extension first.
I want to see Beltre at 3rd next year and I think Cash can get it done without trading any of the big 3, or Jackson, Betances or Tabata. If we have to trade for an injury prone one I’d prefer Rolen over Crede by far. But I really don’t want to go the route of getting a big ? health wise. Since our backup is Wilson Betemit and all. I’d seriously feel more comfortable with Cairo and now I’m starting to regret that we let him go. I know you will all say look at WB’s OPS vs. Cairo’s….but Betemit K’s on 3 pitches in big situations like it’s his job. Cairo doesn’t.
Also, this is kind of random but I wonder who the 5 moronic GM’s who voted against instant replay are? Does anyone know or know if there is any way of finding out?
[quote]I love it when guys make these kind of statements. As if you know what each and every player on the Yankees is thinking. How do you know who was standoffish towards whom?
Why does it have to be emotional? Could it be that the Yankees don’t want to pay the 40% premium for Sir A-Rod’s production? No of course not, the Yankees don’t think rationally when it comes to signing free agents.[/quote]
Let’s see. Maybe it has to do with reports from those covering the team, who were close to the action in the clubhouse – closer than you or me – implying that there is a Jeter Camp and how they were aloof toward A-Rod?
And please. I wish people would spare us the notion that the Yankees have become wise and thrifty in their spending and that the luxury cap would deter them from making a move on a player of A-Rod’s ilk.
The luxury tax didn’t stop them from signing an over-the-hill 68 year old pitcher in Clemens, did it? Or a two year contract for Mussina, 4 years for Damon.
So you’re saying that now these “thrifty” Yanks would rather lose players and prospects to fill a need at 3rd base, one that could conceivably cost them 10…15….or 20 mil per year with less production and a thinner farm?
If you can get Miggy without giving up the big 3 than you have to do it.
Sign A-Rod while you’re at it, put Miggy at 1b and sign Hunter to play CF and you have a monster lineup.
Takes care of the right hand power issue.
It makes way too much sense for the Yanks to sign A-Rod back.
They need a 3b. Right hand hitter.
He needs a team to pay him and he’s already been down this road of free agency and got burnt. Badly.
The yanks only give up money. Not picks, prospects, etc.
That’s 4 months of “sucking” Betemit at third if he doesn’t pan out. Not something I want to depend on.
Betemit was gotten because he was better than Cairo, not Arod. He’s not an everyday player otherwise LA would never have dumped him for a used up arm like Proctor.
The problem with Betemit is his work ethic. He needs to lose 30 pounds and show he’s willing to work on pitch recognition and diminsh his strikezone. He’s got a really long swing right now that’s hit or miss. Until he shows some motivation, his best role is as a utility player.
Damon spoke now, does anyone know what he said. I missed it on the radio.
If they trade for Miguel Cabrera, I’d like to see him play 1B then try to find Betemit a platoon partner for 3B. That should come fairly close to replacing A-Rod’s production.
Yes the Yanks won the ws with roll players, but they did not win it with 3 rookie pitchers in the rotation. We need more pitching
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Yeah, I DEFINITELY don’t want to deal with 4 months of Betemit suckitude especially considering there is no guarantee that any 3b we want will be available at the deadline. And chances are that he would suck, as has been the general rule throughout his career – the more he plays, the less he produces. He’s a bench player for a reason and I don’t feel even a tad bit comfy with the Yanks trying to reinvent the wheel on this one.
I do think he will get in better shape under Girardi but still, no.
Beltre is the answer. He can field and hit, he plays hard, it would give Seattle a chance to get a lot of $$ off their books which they could then spend on starting pitching they desperately need, and Bavasi’s dumb so Cash could fleece him.
Please point me to these articles, I’ve yet to see one.
Well a $350Mil contract for AROD would cost the Yankees about $100MIL in luxury tax.
2. When the Yankees signed Moose two a new 2 year contract for 11Mil a year he had come off of a season in which he pitched 197IP’s and had an ERA of 3.51 a whip of 1.11 and a record of 15-7. More than worth 11Mil, no?
3. The signing of Johnn Damon to a 4 year contract, much less than the 7 year contract Boras orginally wanted by the way helped the Yankees who were in need of a center fielder and hurt the Red Sox and the same time.
JOhnny Damon was in Orlando at the meetings.
“It makes way too much sense for the Yanks to sign A-Rod back.
They need a 3b. Right hand hitter.
He needs a team to pay him and he’s already been down this road of free agency and got burnt. Badly.
The yanks only give up money. Not picks, prospects, etc.”
Precisely. And if the Yanks are true to their word and don’t at least talk to Boras about him, then it IS purely an emotional decision. If that’s the case, Cashman and Hank are way out of their league and run a business more suited to their personalities.
He came to meet with Cash and Joe G. Happy to be with the Yankees.
Ducky Bent – use blockquote instead of quote and use the greater and less than signs – not the square brackets.
So if it takes Hughes, Horne and Melky to get Cabrera out of Florida, most people here say no go?
I’m not so sure. Melky may have come close to his offensive ceiling. He showed very little improvement this past year in important areas (example: plate discipline). Hughes is a nice pitcher but probably not an ace, plus he’ll be on a pitch count (or innings count) next year. Kennedy may be the better pitcher and definitely will contribute more innings. Horne is just a prospect at this point.
We need to get stronger at the corner infield positions, guys, and nobody here really seems to favor shifting Cano again. Something has to give.
There need to be more talk about the bullpen and less about third base.
Poll Question:
If it came down to the Angels and the Mets, which team would you NOT want Alex to go to?
A. Angels
B. Mets
C. Don’t care
I still think there’s already a deal in place, just won’t be announced for some time to avoid tampering charges. Why else would he opt out at the time he did?
i’m thinking there was an offer in place. But I don’t think Boras is waiting to avoid tampering allegations. I think he’s waiting to see if anyone can match or beat the offer original offer. And I don’t think anyone can or will do anything, if tampering can be proved.
As for Lowell, I wouldn’t take his spray chart/product of Fenway too seriously. I think it may be a sign of a player who’s able to adapt well to his environment. if you have that ability to adapt your style of play, it would be silly not to take advantage of it. He also seems like a good guy. I could be wrong, but i’d like to see a ’spray’ chart from his previous years.
That said, I’d really like them to get Miguel if it doesn’t cost too much.
Mets, I don’t want to hear or see him ever again.
mel-
my answer would be c.
ps. sorry about that response from yesterday. I get a little touchy when it comes to Jeter.
DMan, I’ve been lazy on the bullpen front, and thinking it over I guess I’ve allowed myself to imagine that out of that whole crowd of young pitchers some of the ones that are not great starter material may be that just because they only have a couple of good pitches, and so would kind of naturally tumble over into reliever mode.
Jennifer,
Ha! So how long was your uncle depressed? And is he getting excited about the possibility of A-rod in blue and orange (so gay in a non-civil rights way).
For some reason it just warms my heart when players go to the GM Meetings or Winter meetings. I got a kick out of it when Chris Britton showed up last year.
Speaking of Britton they better give him more of a chance to make the team out of ST this year! Also the bullpen in general has not really been discussed much here. Does anyone think we should re-sign The Viz? I’m not hugely high on it but unless we can trade for a solid 7th-8th inning righty we pretty much have to IMO. Unless there is a better one available via free agency that I don’t know about? No Scott Linebrink for me, not down with giving up a draft pick for a guy who gave up too many homers in PETCO of all places…
Lastly, speaking of the bullpen does anyone have any updates on how Humberto Sanchez and/or JB Cox are progressing in their recoveries from surgery? would be GREAT if at least one of them is ready to contribute at the beginning of the season. Oh and I vote for Rasner as spot starter/long reliever. He’s fully recovered right? And he is better than Karstens who should just be trade bait at this point.
Under no circumstances trade any of our good young pitching for anybody. All our our super potent offensive lineup did us ZERO good in the playoffs for the past 4 years. We can afford a few weaker hitters if they can field & run if we spend $ on our bullpen. Our great years had some solid role players mixed in and a great bullpen. That’s the ticket we need to re-establish, and KEEP Joba in the pen. Girardi will manufacture runs if need be. We need to get people OUT.
Glad to see that Girardi will have at least some input with Cashman as to the makeup of the team. I trust his opinion about talent & attitude 100%, & it looks like Cashman values it too, which is a great sign for our future.
“Well a $350Mil contract for AROD would cost the Yankees about $100MIL in luxury tax.
2. When the Yankees signed Moose two a new 2 year contract for 11Mil a year he had come off of a season in which he pitched 197IP’s and had an ERA of 3.51 a whip of 1.11 and a record of 15-7. More than worth 11Mil, no?
3. The signing of Johnn Damon to a 4 year contract, much less than the 7 year contract Boras orginally wanted by the way helped the Yankees who were in need of a center fielder and hurt the Red Sox and the same time.”
1. The 350 mil seemed to be in response to the Yanks saying they would not negotiate and Boras needed to get a starting number out there for other clubs, since the Yanks weren’t willing. He also didn’t want the Yanks to name a price (which they did) to hurt in his negotiations with other clubs. I despise Boras, but I can see what he did and I’d consider his representing me if I were a baseball player.
2, 3. In retrospect, you see where those contracts got us. I don’t adhere to the “Those moves looked good at the time” nonsense. Because if that were the case, all or most GM’s would have a perfect score. I judge by results. And as bad as a replacement as Crisp might have been, we sure see how the Sox recovered with their “bad” moves. Wouldn’t you love to see Cash do likewise? Thus far he hasn’t since given his “autonomy”. We’ll see how 2008 and beyond bodes for us.
As for Jeter, am I to truly believe that you don’t know of any tensions, or at least aloofness between them? Without going through Google searches, just remember how Jeter was unwilling to have A-Rod’s back in 2006, yet willingly had Giambi’s a year before.
Jennifer
In the papers this morning. He was coming to meet with Boras because all the Crede rumors had him uneasy.
oh, and actually one more question for anyone familiar with the prospects. Despite some disappointments last year, I still think Clippard has major league potential but I don’t realistically see a spot for him in our rotation any time soon. How would his stuff translate into a relief role?
I haven’t spoken to him for about two weeks. He ticked me off about the whole Joe T thing. He thinks his right and he is the only one that is right. It ticked me off. He also asked me if I was going to call to congratulate him for the soxs winning the WS. I said HELL NO!! Your only a sox fan because i’m a yankee fan, you’d be a jay fan if they made the series. He admitted that was the case. I guess I really should call him to see what he thinks of A-Fraud going to his team.
[blockquote]Ducky Bent – use blockquote instead of quote and use the greater and less than signs – not the square brackets.[/blockquote]
Thanks sunny!
BBB- I also support Beltre for 3rd base. He’ll provide 25 to 30 homers, play very good defense, is durable, and only 28 years old. I think that he is ready to hit the prime of his career. Miguel Cabrera may be more talented, but Beltre seems like a surer thing, just because weight and attitude are not problems for him. Beltre’s contract may seem a touch steep, but these are the New York Yankees. Money is not a problem and there are only two years left on Beltre’s deal.
Sheesh (blockquote)
Well, I dont have any spray charts.. But, Away from Fenway he hit .272.
If you go take a look at his career batting #’s you’ll see that .272 is about his average..
For example, 2004 was his best season other than this last one.
He hit .296 at home in Florida and .289 on the road..
In 2003 he hit .282 at home and .271 on the road..
So Fenway is helping.
YOu need to use the greater than less than symbols.
other wise you have it right.
>blockquote/blockquote
I’m dense
why people keeps on complainting about WANG?
what about the other player?
Did they all make pretty good on playoff?
Is Wang the only one player on yankees didn’t make good on playoff?
what about Derek Jeter whom master on DP by other team and destroyed entire game?
its prtty fruatrated
YOu have to use this
go here
http://picasaweb.google.com/sunny615/HtmlQuickie/photo#5130140115873019618
Thanks Jennifer.
Mike in RI,
I’m with you. Many people think that the Yankees should get rid of Jeter and his range/GIDPs, install Alex at short, and all the problems will go away. They think that everyone will LOVE Alex as soon as Jeter’s not around to tell them how to act and feel.
Jeter’s not the player he used to be, but he still garners respect from the late Phil Rizutto, Henry Aaron, Joe Torre, Yogi Berra, and the countless baserunners giggling with him at second. That’s because Jeter’s “good people”. That kind of stuff doesn’t show up in a stat sheet and can’t be bought for any amount of money.
Damon just on WFAN. “I would accept a trade if the Yankees thought it would make them better.” I like Johnny but if there’s nothing in it for him, he already said he would say no.
How about a trade for Scott Rolen? He and Tony LaRussa despise each other so he might waive his no-trade clause. And the cards might even give him away in a salary dump like Abreu. He has 3 years and 36 million remaining on the contract. He has missed lots of time with injuries over 2 of the last 3 seasons so it’s very risky to take a 3 year contract with health questions. But when he is healthy he is significantly better offensively and defensively than Betemit or Crede or most of these other names. He’s probably better than Lowell as well. Signing Lowell would also mean giving Boston a draft pick of ours. Do you really want that to happen?
The Yankees can afford a risky contract like Rolen’s. Hoping for a salary dump might be wishful thknking though. Damon could be a viable option to swap for Rolen, but then is becomes a lot riskier since we are giving up a good player. But moving Damon would at least get Giambi in there as the every day DH rather than a 20 million dollar bench guy. And with Rolen at third, Betemit can join the first base platoon. His bat is better than Duncan or Phillips so it would improve that spot a little. Damon is owed 26 million over the next 2 years. The Cards need an OF and a leadoff hitter since Eckstein will likely not return. I think it is something worth considering.
The idea is to get a good everyday 3B guy without giving up young pitchers in trades (like for Miguel Cabrera), or future draft picks to other teams by signing free agents (like Mike Lowell). But Rolen has big health concerns. With the recent Pavano happenings, that might kill this idea. But I think it’s possible anyway.
Johnny Damon has a partial no trade – are the ChiSox on that list?
sunny,
Thanks for the link and lesson!
If we trade Damon for Joe Crede then Cashman should be fired immediately and I’ll start believing that the organization is in a tailspin.
sunny615,
I believe Damon gets to select the teams on his no-trade list every offseason.
my pleasure Ducky
Both Melky and Ian Kennedy should be considered very tradeable.
Cots usually has the list up – but I can’t get to it.
I’m glad that Damon wants to stay. The Yankees don’t need stars at every position, but they still need some. The cupboard’s getting bare.
I for one, am against Damon for Crede. Damon has much more value than just Crede and in my mind, is our starting Left Fielder. Crede is fine as a stop gap, but I wouldn’t trade Damon for him – maybe DeSalvo or Wright.
Damon fills the leadoff spot perfectly. Without him, the Yankees would really struggle trying to find a replacement at the leadoff spot. Jeter really strikes out too much to leadoff, and Melky just isn’t ready yet. He definitely can’t work a count like Damon can. A great leadoff hitter isn’t something that you can find right around the corner. Just for that reason I hope that Damon is able to stick around. Damon provides those 12 to 13 pitch at-bats and that helps out the rest of the lineup. It gives them a great view of what a pitcher has.
greetings from Tampa International Airport!! Headed to Grand Cayman for a week
anyway, i’m all about getting cabrera at the right price, and as long as his fat @$$ in the gym once in awhile lol…. i’ve seen him play in S Fla for a few years now (unfortunately i was there when he hit the hr off clemens in game 4). He has a chance to be something special and I think the Yankees would be crazy to not at least explore the option.
Most ridiculous thing I think I’ve ever read. GM’s make moves all the time that look good at the time they make them. That’s part of the job. As they say though hindsight is 20/20 and apparently you have it.
Secondly in 2006 Damon had an OPS of .841 which is great for a center fielder. This year he had a slight down year but he was hurt for half of the year but he still wasn’t awful. Now if in the next two years he is worse or equal than he was this year then yes you can say it was a bad contract.
The Red Sox are actively shopping the GREAT Coco Crisp because of how bad he’s been both years he’s been there. Crisp if you’ll recall had to be removed from the lineup in the ALCS and WS because of how horrible he’s been.
Thirdly have you not seen some of the Cashman has been doing since he gained complete control?
What does Jeter not sticking up for AROD have to do with the rest of the team not liking AROD or being in AROD’s camp or whatever else you want to say?
Tucson Ken wrote:
“Under no circumstances trade any of our good young pitching for anybody. All our our super potent offensive lineup did us ZERO good in the playoffs for the past 4 years. We can afford a few weaker hitters if they can field & run if we spend $ on our bullpen. Our great years had some solid role players mixed in and a great bullpen. That’s the ticket we need to re-establish, and KEEP Joba in the pen. Girardi will manufacture runs if need be. We need to get people OUT.”
Without ARod and that insane lineup, we don’t even make the playoffs. It’s about upgrading the team, and Cabrera is a tremendous offensive upgrade. No, I would not part with Hughes or Joba, but if it’s Kennedy and lesser prospects, you have to take it into serious consideration.
As for Joba staying in the pen, I think this is absolutely the wrong way to go. A potential #1 starter is much more valuable then a middle reliever. I look at it this way – if Joba fails as a starter, he can always be converted back.
Did somebody above say that Betemit would hit between 25-30HR’s? Sign me up.
raymagnetic,
That was discussed the other day ad nauseum. They were trying to keep a scorecard between Theo and Cash. But someone didn’t know that C-$ was here since ‘98 and they didn’t know that a certain big deal was done while Theo was in his Halloween costume.
I’ve come up with a new internet term. It’s “picking a scab”. It means starting up an argument that has already died down.
I’m just kidding with you, but stop picking at that scab. I say this with love. Like a parent tells a child. LOL.
picking a scab….baseball doesnt start for another 5 months, We will be doing alot of scab picking this offseason.
Everything we talk about here is the same argument, over and over…
OK.
With regard to how the Yankees handled the ultimatum to A-Rod that they weren’t going to negotiate with him if he opted out. What business sense does it make to close the door firmly without recourse? Had the Yankees stated that they could make their best offer if he didn’t opt out, that would still keep the door open to talks if he did.
A-Rod was set to opt out. That doesn’t mean that he was no longer wanting to play for the Yankees. It doesn’t mean that he did want to play for them. It simply meant that he was going to test the market out there to see what his worth is viewed as. This was his leverage.
The Yankees stating that they would make their best offer, due to the Texas money, if he didn’t opt out was the Yankee’s leverage. It wouldn’t have backed them into a corner. It would have allowed them to take him or leave him on their terms.
I think this might have more to do with a show down with Boras.
As things stand, the Yankees have a hole at 3rd base. They have some options. Only one of which would keep it as strong as it was.
First option: Work a deal with A-Rod even though he opted out. This might still happen, but it would take concessions from A-Rod to do so. Will he? Doubtful, but not out of the question. Remember, he was set to take less money going to Boston before the player union shot that down.
Second option: Fill it from within. Betemit, Phillips, one of the kids from the farm system. A lot less power there, but it may work. Doubtful it will fill the offensive hole that A-Rod leaves, but runs aren’t everything.
Third option: Trade for the position. Beltre, Cabrera, Crede or whomever else gets named will take talent to get. That probably means pitching, and possibly fielding players. That means Ian and Melky to start. Or Damon with a large salary eat.
Brosius was playing when the Yankees won. Great. There was also a lot better pitching when they won. Boston won because they created the best run differential. Losing offense doesn’t kill a team. However, with young arms filling the rotation, possibly making up the majority of it, will mean needing to have better hitting.
What I would do is try to keep A-Rod. Use the talent pool to try to trade for Santana. Then you have a stronger rotation, a strong lineup. A greater likelyhood that the post season will be there, and the pitching upgrade could help advance through the post season.
Anybody interested in A.J. Burnett?
ESPN says the Jays are looking to deal.
Migames,
So true! We’ll all have scars up and down our legs.
Here is a question. Before you berate me on the scenario, assume that it exists…Curious to see how some of the thinkers respond.
Assume that through a trade the Yankees get Miguel Cabrera.(don’t care who they gave up or would give, not important for the scenario) They now have a 3b man and the door officially closes on Arod.
Does that make Arod less expensive to another team? If so, how much less expensive and would it allow that team to still fill other holes?
Think for example the Angels. If they commit 30-35 million that Boras is asking, that severly hampers their ability to fill pitching roles or fielding roles.
Does it benefit the Yankees more if Arod goes to the NL?
ND Yank,
Don’t you think that Cash traded Proctor for Betemit partially as a contingency plan? He gave up a reliable reliever and let go of a good utility guy for him.
I don’t know the stats, but Betemit had some power in very limited at bats. It’d be nice to see what he could do over a full season, huh? I know that Long could help him with his frequent K’s. Look at the difference one year with Cano made.
AJ Burnett has the stuff, but his delivery is awful and is on the DL more often than Chavez. No thanks. The Jays signed up for 4 years of him and in 2 years got all of 4 months worth of pitching? No thanks.
PepperBrooks,
See my poll question at 11:29.
You want Alex to go where he’s going to hurt you least. Also, some (not all) want Alex to go where he will crumble over the pressure. Others want him to go where there’s no chance in hell that he wins a ring.
I still have problems believing that he’ll sign a looonngg term contract in the NL. I know he’s very fit and athletic, but guess who else was fit and athletic. None other than Barry Bonds. At some point Alex will need to DH to break the record. I wouldn’t mind him coming back 10 years later to break the record.
What he said.
For one thing, Betemit can hit from the left side, not so much from the right. He should drop the switch hitting to make himself more consistent. Then his batting might show improvement. The splits with him show he isn’t a righty batter.
The whole thing with Procter is it upgraded the bench. Procter wasn’t as effective as he had been. Some of that might have been through the exposure he had to the east.
Was it a hedge for A-Rod opting out? I don’t see it. Betty is a utility player more than an every day player. Like Cairo. Fine for a while, but not as a solution.
never happen.
Betemit is a utility guy and has a long swing. He can’t play everyday. Phillips has played 3b less than a handful of times and would not be a good fit. Eric Duncan played third 4 years ago, but has struggled since being rushed through the system and is more bust than boom now. Andy Cannizaro is projected as a utility player as well and more middle infield than corner. There isn’t much to maneuver with here.
Miguel Cabrera will not come for Kennedy. You want top talent, you deal top talent – and that means Hughes or Joba. If the Yanks don’t give up one of those two, some other team probably will… or if not, then someone with better potential than Kennedy. Just like we don’t deal Joba unless someone like Santana is coming back – and even then – a lot of people here would balk at that – myself included. Before anyone starts spouting off on how the Marlins would love to deal one of the top talents in the league for our third ranked prospect, think about what we would as for in return for dealing Joba. Then you can make an assessment. All fans overvalue their own prospects – why wouldn’t the Marlins do the same? Crede is marginally better than a stop gap. I wouldn’t trade much to get him. Atkins – the Rockies have decided to keep him and move him to second. Beltre isn’t being shopped actively so it would take a better package than he’s worth to get him – i.e., Kennedy and I wouldn’t make that deal… especially since Seattle knows we need a 3b man more than they need to deal him.
AJ BUrnett is a better Pavano… who wants to go through that again?
I agree. The Burnett thing would be Pavano all over again.
did someone mention ICU-ANO
I agree on Beltre at third. It would save us from giving up young pitchers. Accept for Igawa.
But how about going after Orlando Hudson and moving Cano to third? Its been said that they are willing to move him. I would think maybe Horne,Ohlendorf and Clippard might get it done.
If we do go after Cabrera, put him at first and have Betimet and Phillips share the 3rd base duties. We wouldnt need as much pop from that position. Treat it like the 90’s. Defense first position.
We really need to get something out of Giambi this year – if you take arods numbers out of our lineup and put in decent giambi numbers, it is not that bad…
if we get cabrera – make him the DH – i dont think they should sacrifice defense at third if we are pushing our model towards strong pitching…
i have seen a couple of mentions about Tabata – i will believe it when i see it. I can still remember about 10 years ago Ruben Rivera was supposed to be the next 5 tool superstar… UGH…
if you want to cry:
(thanks BA)
TOP PROSPECTS
OF THE DECADE
1995 Ruben Rivera, of
1996 Ruben Rivera, of
1997 Ruben Rivera, of
1998 Eric Milton, lhp
1999 Nick Johnson, 1b
2000 Nick Johnson, 1b
2001 Nick Johnson, 1b
2002 Drew Henson, 3b
2003 Jose Contreras, rhp
2004 Dioner Navarro, c
TOP DRAFT PICKS
OF THE DECADE
1995 Shea Morenz, of
1996 Eric Milton, lhp
1997 *Tyrell Godwin, of
1998 Andy Brown, of
1999 David Walling, rhp
2000 David Parrish, c
2001 John-Ford Griffin, of
2002 Brandon Weeden, rhp (2nd round)
2003 Eric Duncan, 3b
2004 Philip Hughes, rhp
*Did not sign
Sunny615, while I grant you it isn’t likely, never say never.
I think it is an outside possiblity, and it depends a lot on what he gets offered.
I don’t like the second option.
For the third option, I think it depends on what gets offered. I think there is a higher degree that Kennedy would be able to be traded as a centerpiece deal to the Twins for Santana. It would take Melky and others though.
I still think the Yankees shot themselves in the foot with their stance on A-Rod. Both sides took a hard stance, and both sides might well have to live with the consequences of that. Neither getting what they want.
In business we would call that lose-lose.
mel,
If Cash thinks that Betemit could hit 25-30 HR do you think he’d be looking for a 3B this offseason? The guys 162 game average thus far in his career is 14 HR and 50 RBI’s. I’m all for giving Betemit a shot at 3B and not having to deal any prospects or take a chance on a FA with a big salary, but I’d set my sights a little lower than 25-30HR’s. I’d be happy with .275-18-75 and an OPS of .800+ and solid defense. The guy has to lose a few lb’s though.
Beltre would be nice at third. How likely is he to be traded though?
He wouldn’t take as much as Cabrera, but it would still take a trade of some talents. The Mariners have stated in order to trade Beltre the offer would have to “blow them away”.
I don’t see it as likely. Igawa is a tough one to trade away. Even with the West coast liking Japanese players they have to show they can actually play. Igawa hasn’t shown consistancy. Plus salary makes him undesirable.
Come on Tony, why stop after 2004? Show us the top prospects and top picks since Cash and Damon Opp have taken over the entire drafting and scouting process. Doesn’t support your argument now, does it?
I respectfully disagree, Arod is as much ego as he is talent. He will not concede anything – especially with Boras at the helm of HMS Arod. Arod opted out for one thing only – money – and he will land elsewhere because someone will give it to him – whether it’s the Giants, Angels or Detroit.
Again, if you have the best pitcher in baseball, you’re not trading him for someone else’s third best prospect. If I were the Twin’s GM, I’d ask for Joba or Hughes and expect nothing less. If I can’t get either one of those two from the Yankees, I’ll get a top prospect from another team who will be willing to give it up for Santana.
no argument there.
They have been wanting to dump his salary the day they got him. Also, the Mariners need to strenghten their rotation and Igawa(cheap compared to other starters+lefty+japanese)would probably fit their need.
OH GOD !!!! CASHMAN PLEASE DON’T TRADE TABATA OR ACTION, AVOID THE TEMPTATION !! STAND TALL !!
I think it depends on the offers out there. It also depends on getting a team to make a huge offer. Giants might not be able to simply because of the debt they hold. Angels might but then it means they are held hostage to doing similar for Vlad.
There are upsides to A-Rod, but his numbers will decline. Its a tougher call for them to go that high with salary.
While I totally agree that A-Rod loves the big bucks he can get, he is also concerned about his image. Its taken a really hard hit with all this. Will that equate to dropping the price tag a little on him? Hard to say. It depends on what he thinks its worth.
The contract size is part of it with him, but he also thinks legacy and historic context.
The Yankees need to have something to salve their position, so does A-Rod.
It could also turn out that he accepts arbitration. If the right deal doesn’t come, then it goes to a one year deal where he still makes big bucks. I doubt it, but you never know.
I just don’t see Igawa being someone who teams would clammor for. There are FA in japan that could do the job for the M’s without giving up Beltre. If its about salary dump, then its an outside chance, but I think it takes more prospects to get it done.
Igawa was saught after at the trade deadline from the Padres. Cashman declined. Maybe add a Karstens or Clippard to sweeten the pot. Again I dont think they would ask much Being that they want to unload him. If that fail go back to the Padres and get Kouzmanof for Igawa. They have a third baseman ready to take his spot. Move him to first and grab Encarnacion from the Reds for prospects.
MoPoRo & sunny,
If I may interrupt your debate, it’s a win-win. The Alex in New York (Yankees) experiment failed and now it’s a do-over for both sides. Alex needs to go where he’ll be comfortable.
Alex knew the Yankees were going to try to keep him at all costs (because of his most excellent year). If he cared about Yankee legacy and his image he would’ve done the honorable thing and negotiated within the 10-day window. He would’ve had his cake and been able to eat it, too. For some reason they avoided that negotiating period like the plague. Either he didn’t give a spit or he grossly overestimated the Yankees’ desire to pursue him. He also grossly underestimated the backlash that would follow.
With the Giants owner Magowan footing the whole bill for the stadium, he needs sell out crowds and as SJ44 indicated to me, the Giants are more about entertainment than winning championships. With Arod around, they’ll be sure to fill seats.
With the Angels, I can see them letting Vlad go. He’s becoming a DH with his knee problems. So if he loses a position to the Angels, he won’t be able to ask as much… and I don’t see him wanting to be labeled as a DH so he’ll probably go elsewhere after his contract expires.
The last Boras client to accept arbitration was Millwood. Arod is no Millwood. Arod will take the money. Let’s all not forget his infamous spring training quote: “Being the highest paid player in basebal… it’s cool!”
I agree Mel, which is why I don’t see arod coming back to the Yankees under any circumstances. If the Yankees make any deal with arod now, they lose face in any future negotiations with any other player or agent because in their minds, the Yankees will always come back to the table. The only way for this to settle with arod back to the Yankees is if arod swallows his ego, and no animal has a mouth that big.
Personally, I’m a fan of Miguel Cabrera. I would be willing to give up Ian Kennedy+some B-list prospects for him.Hes only 24,and who else would we get?
Lowell?
Beltre?
Then there is Santana to always be aware of.But I would pick Cabrera over Santana any day.If Pettitte comes back, then we wont need Santana.
what is arbitration? how does it work?
Em-
I have to respectfully disagree. Santana is an absolute stud starting pitcher. If this past post season taught us anything it’s that you need a proven #1 starter. As good as Wang has been for us, he does not have that same killer instinct you want. Santana has that.
Even if Pettite comes back he is no ace. He is perfect as the #2 stopper. There is no way you back off Santana simply because Andy’s coming back.