Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 08, 2007 
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The Mets, Angels and Red Sox talked to Scott Boras about A-Rod.
Johnny Damon stopped by the GM Meetings for a visit with his new manager. This notebook also has updates on Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera and Tom Glavine.
Roger Clemens looks ready to retire.
The GM Meetings wrap up today. Check back later to see what Brian Cashman says on his way out.
I hope it is we are finishing the deal for Jorge and Mo.
A-Rod goes to the Sox. It’s inevitable. Theo will work out an attractive (for the Sox organization) contract and Yanks fans will shake their heads in disbelief.
Theo has the smarts, drive and a manner that makes the players feel like family as opposed to Cashman who comes off as colder, more indecisive and a bean-counting business man.
George Steinbrenner had the charm, guile (and of course money) that Cashman just doesn’t have. Don’t think that George’s pitch, that the player is wanted, needed and will be the most important part of the club had no effect. It’s AFTER they signed that he’s be a pain in the neck.
The bottom line is that while Theo is the GM of Boston, despite some of HIS bad moves, and Cashman is the GM of NY, with the far superior payroll, Theo will always come out first. Sorry Cashman lovers/lemmings.
“Roger Clemens looks ready to retire.”
Goodness gracious – he looked ready to retire after his 2nd start this past season.
Well, Ducky, apparently sometime over the last month Hank went to charm school.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11.....930225.htm
Farnsworth and Igawa to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada.
Tejada is due $13M/yr. through 2009 ($26M total).
Igawa is due $4M/yr. through 2011 ($16M total).
Farnsworth is due $5.75M for 2008 only.
The Yanks take on/ the Orioles shed $4.25M including $3.25M for 2008 (Tejada’s $26M – 21.75M due Farnsworth and Igawa for the lives of the contracts, Tejada’s $13M – 9.75M due Farnsworth and Igawa for 2008).
2008 Tejada costs $3.25M > 2008 Farnsworth and Igawa ($13M – 9.75M), $9M > 2009 Igawa ($13M – 9M).
The Orioles have Farnsworth’s $5.75M off the books after 2008 and would owe Igawa $4M/yr. 2009-12.
The Yanks need a 3B and to get rid of Igawa, the Orioles need an insurance closer/ setup man (Farnsworth) and could always use another starter (Igawa) esp. if Erik Bedard is dealt or signs elsewhere.
I’d rather have Tejada than Farnsworth and Igawa in 2008.
I’d rather have Tejada for $9M > Igawa in 2009.
Maybe Cashman, the ever-wise spender, can convince Roger to pitch in September for something like 12 million!
Maybe Brian should spend more time not offending his current i players, who are intregal to the Yank’s success, with comments like “We will not negotiate a contract till after the season ends” than evaluating and offering outrageous contracts for trash.
Just think how much cheaper Jorge and Mo would have come had Cashman signed them earlier. Not to mention trying to negotiate a new contract with A-Rod the past four years.
The players should show love when their GM doesn’t?
How Do , DUCKY last time I looked Cashman got A-Rod from Texas and THEO FAILED !!!!!!!!
mel, these players (especially Jorge) could have probably been signed for less if the Yank’s were proactive during the season. I’m glad Hank isn’t afraid to spend money, but come on, Jorge and Mo are might comfortable playing for the Yanks, so this would be no great coupe. Only, the could have been had for lesser money had Cashman not foolishly played hardball with them, which pissed of Mo.
NY 23. FYI, believe it or not, Levine suggested they go after A-Rod; it was HIS idea. Well, kudos for Cashman for negotiating the contract, but, you see what I’m saying.
But what does all this have to do with the current state of affairs and mess the Yanks find themselves in with their MLB players?
“Theo has the smarts, drive and a manner that makes the players feel like family as opposed to Cashman who comes off as colder, more indecisive and a bean-counting business man.”
i don’t love cashman, but the above statement about family is pure nonsense. the red sox spend a fortune using probabilty as their guide to finish two games better than the yankees in the regular season. they make enough signings( to add to their young players )and they figure some will work and some won’t. that’s their philosphy. they hit you with numbers.
family values. that’s a good one.
Also, NY23. Theo failed????????!!!! He may have lost the battle but won the war. Last time I looked it’s Theo 2 Yanks 0 since 2004.
Don’t completely agree with Ducky but he has a point to an extent. If Joe Torre needs to prove he can do it without a $200M dollar payroll, Cashman needs to prove he can do it without a $200M dollar budget.
Cashman has always had the ability to throw money at a problem area. If that’s no longer the case, he does need to get more creative in his thinking.
Theo’s stance on contracts has been the same as Cash’s look at Shilling and Lowell he did the same with Variteck three years ago thier feelings weren’t hurt. sorry but my empaithy
for these spoiled rotten players is ZERO. grow up this is a business
Ducky,
Mo had issues, Schilling had issues so it was prudent to see how they perform. I really don’t care what Mo felt, he’s always been beloved and treated with respect. If he feels he needs to go somewhere else to be respected then go.
As for Posada, he said he was looking forward to free agency because he’s never been there. If he’d rather where blue & orange that’s fine with me, too.
After all, it’s just business. In the end you either want to be a Yankee or not. And you’ll be able to feed your family, too.
Clearly you have an agenda, so I’ll just leave it at that.
Ducky is right about one thing – ARod will end up in Boston at a reduced rate. Just watch, their negotiations with Lowell will break down. They have no real intention of bringing Lowell back. They need to say they “tried”
before moving on to ARod.
randi I, I didn’t mention “family values.” I said that Theo seems to be less cold and more involved with the players he desires. It shows in the clubhouse and his caring and friendships with the players themselves. Whether it’s an act or not is anybody’s guess, but it seems to work.
Compare that to the distant, bean-counting, though foolish-spending, Cashman’s attitude toward his players. His tactics have turned off a number of players, and he has the recover by spending more for them than he should have had he played his cards right. Ask Mo, Po and probably A-Rod. Ask the Yank players if the shoddy way the Bernie was handled didn’t send a smoke signal throughout the clubhouse.
garpoyle, OR my guess is they will sign Lowell and A-Rod will be their shortstop. They’ll find a way to get rid of Lugo.
mel? I have an agenda? On an internet blog? Do tell!
Here’s a clue. I’m a HUGE Yankees fan who is becoming increasingly disgusted with a lot of the moves they’ve made the past few years. I love the fact that they are being patient with the youngsters, but many GM’s could do that. That doesn’t take creativity.
BTW, I agree with you mel. If they don’t want to be Yankees, or their heart isn’t into the game, adios!
That includes Mo and the butt-buddies, Andy and Roger.
Ducky:
Theo is more involved with the players, he shows his caring and has friendships with players? Cashman is distant and a bean counter? Hohohohohahahahahahahahaha! I want what you’re smoking!
Maybe off topic but … Pete, thanks again for all the reporting and have a safe trip home. Word of warning, it’s getting colder here in the NE.
The last thing an MLB level GM can afford to do and still keep his job is become friends with the hired help. That’s utter nonsense. Come off it… Theo isn’t anybody’s friend, any more than Cashman is Ebeneezer Scrooge.
Ducky,
I’m not going to apologize for liking and supporting Cashman, the current GM of the New York Yankees. If Theo or Shapiro or Dombrosky were here, I’d support them, too. Jeez.
Ducky,
And how can you not like a guy who falls asleep reading a story to his young son?
“By quantifying the circumstances under which key investment decisions are made, our methodology offers investors a rational approach to markets, unswayed by judgmental bias.”
ducky bent-
the above is from john henry’s investment website. it’s how he runs the red sox too. it’s a system. they run a program at you. forget the touchy feely stuff.
the red sox have pulled ahead,but it’s not because theo wears jeans and flannel shirts,sometimes has a little facial hair ,and hangs with the players. it’s because they make a lot of tries. if one thing doesn’t work another will. on the contrary, players to them are not that important. numbers are. forget the family thing. that’s not what the yankees have to beat. it’s the numbers.
I think the Yanks will end up trying to make a deal for uel Tejada… asking price for Cabrera is too high:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sp.....0445.story
Don’t completely agree with Ducky but he has a point to an extent. If Joe Torre needs to prove he can do it without a $200M dollar payroll, Cashman needs to prove he can do it without a $200M dollar budget.
Cashman has always had the ability to throw money at a problem area. If that’s no longer the case, he does need to get more creative in his thinking.
Glad you see at least some of my view. In addition, I’m no huge Torre fan and his in-game managing and am glad Girardi is taking over.
But given the 200 mil payroll and atrocious pitching (starting and relief), poor bench/role players, bad second string catching (before Molina) and the 1b situation, it’s a miracle the Yanks even got to the playoffs. The blame has to go to Cashman and his player decisions/evaluation as well. What the Yanks fielded for 200 mil is laughable.
The Mets are in dire need of pitching. It makes little sense to spend that kind of money on a position that they already have filled by one of the best. Yes, they can move Wright to 2nd but who knows if that will work. He can go to first too but its interesting that nobody (Minaya, Wright) cares about throwing Carlos Delgado (who is due $16M)under the bus.
If they do fall for Arod then at least it will likely take them out of any Santana bidding war… they’ll have no cash to give him for a long term contract and their pitching will still be in shambles. Without significant pitching help, they’ll be chasing the Phillies next year… great move to get Lidge and move Myers back to the rotation.
Arod to the Red Sox makes a bit more sense in that they could have Lowell at 3rd and Arod at SS for three years (maybe 4) before moving Arod to 3rd when Lowell leaves. Plus with Papi’s knee issues and Manny’s contract being up next year – it makes quite some sense. They got Schilling back cheaply so they’re rotation looks pretty solid and they have money to spend.
The Angels seem to be the front runner (for Arod) but the two problems I see is that they won’t outbid the Mets or Red Sox if either of them really want Arod and if they do, then they might have to give some more $$$ to Vlad.
Would the Yankees stay on the sideline if they felt either the Mets or Red Sox were close to getting Arod? I doubt it. Things seem to be working out for Boras.
“Theo has the smarts, drive and a manner that makes the players feel like family as opposed to Cashman who comes off as colder, more indecisive and a bean-counting business man.â€
Based on what? Have you talked to Yankees or Red Sox players, or read interviews where anyone said something along these lines?
Its amazing that people will post just about any kind of nonsense without providing anything in support.
You got me there, buddy!
It’s a wonder that Cashman can get anything done, with all those beans to count!
If the Sox sign A-Rod, they will have completed the transformation from pathetic perennial bridesmaid to the Evil Empire. With all the money tied up in Ortiz, Nancy Drew, Dice- K, The Cooler and Manny, welcome to additional luxury tax burdens and the destruction of your farm system.
I don’t root for the Sox but they must have learned from the Yankees’ mistakes. The Yankees did.
I don’t want Tejada either. I think he’s a juicer. Palmeiro didn’t throw him under the bus for no reason. Don’t we have our quota of steroid takers in Giambi?
I’d bet they would like Tabata or Jackson, Tejada can stay in Baltimore for all I care, wait till his name comes out as a steroid user and this blows up in our faces, JUST SAY NO !!!
No way the Red Sox sign A-Dummy. There’s no way he fits into that clubhouse. He barely fit into the Yankees and we’re not rednecks like the Sox.
“Cashman has always had the ability to throw money at a problem area. If that’s no longer the case, he does need to get more creative in his thinking.”
Ducky: Cashman made his stand two years ago: (paraphrase) “Either we get younger, cheaper and more athletic or I don’t want the job.”
Cashman has been trying to force his boss to let him be more creative and focus on prospects instead of giving it all way for FAs and aging vets. That includes making vets earn their new contacts with great seasons, like the one Po just had.
OK, to end this Cashman-bashing on my end, which is going nowhere, I’ll just say that it’s disheartening to be a Yanks fan right now given our payroll and condition on Nov 8. Hopefully this all changes but to say that Theo isn’t doing something better than Cashman, with a significantly lower payroll is unfounded.
Let’s look at the results folks. Hopefully by 2010 we can say that we are even with the Sox since 2004.
murphydog,
I was thinking the same thing. We’re so close to the situation, yet we chose to ignore Alex’s warts (or were blinded with his awesomeness). How do other teams see the last 4 years? Do they blame New York and the media? Do they think he’s like a wild pitcher with a high ceiling? “If only we could get our hands on him, we could make him even better!” Or do they see all the drama and attention that comes with Alex? If they’re smart, they’ll avoid him based on his last departures from Seattle, Texas, and the Yankees. But I’m sure they’ll think the reward will outweigh the costs.
To blame Cashman for not signing Mo and Posada to extensions in ST is foolish.
The team takes on the brunt of the risk in years 1-3, so they deserve the 4th year to see if these guys break down. Rivera and Posada, in the meantime, have become filthy rich by being Yankees.
Is the extra money they need to spend now worth them having a year to see if these guys fall apart? Since the Yankees can afford, I think so.
There is no disrespect, since they were paid handsomely throughout the contract.
murphdog, I hope you’re right and that given time Cashman’s decisions on the major league level will prove to be the right ones.
I do give him credit for changing the Yank’s philosophy about the farm.
Reading today’s Boston Globe Theo talks about how teams need to make changes to stay ahead of the curve. I don’t necessarily buy this for the RS right now but he’s not going to stand pat. It’s not his style. For good or ill (and his record has a lot of bad signings and trades, it’s the maturation of Beckett and the development of the kids that’s saved him) Theo is going to make moves. Maybe big ones (trading Manny? signing ARod or dealing for Cabrera).
Bucky,
I agree. I am not a Torre fan, but he put the team he had on the field.Cashman should take some of the blame.
Someone mentioned Melvin Mora in a prior thread, he may be a decent stopgap for a couple of years, he is owed approx $16 mil for the next 2 years with a club option in 2010. He’s righthanded, some power, his OBP avgs in the .350′s for the last couple of years, not sure about his defense. He probably could be had for Farnsworthless, who the O’s are interested for some odd reason, though they do need a closer. An additional prospect could get it done.
seriously I’m trying to look at this from so many angles
1. Tejada isn’t a 3B and I doubt he ever played 3rd
2. he’d be playing in NY a complete different scene
3. he lost confidence and was criticized heavily in Balt. and now to go to NY thinking it’s softer
4. steroids, steroids, steroids 99% his name is on that list
5. his miscues fielding
6. how many yrs. he has left ? what 2 maybe 3 so what is this move about saving face ?
I don’t like Tejada as a solution or a fall back especially if it costs us players like Tabata or Jackson going to Baltimore.
I’m of the belief that if 1) Mo gets the last out in 2004 and 2) The Yanks had better pitching and a more balanced club for 200+ mil, that A-Rod wouldn’t be considered a bad egg and probably regarded as a Yankee icon.
NO THANKS
in the last 7 years how many times were the Yanks favored to win it all? All 7 years. Every playoff series they were favored how did they do? Cashman put them in position to win
i don’t know were he has to share the blame. and while doing this he still managed to build up the farm. we should be thankfull we don’t have some on the idots out there that are masquarading as GM
Ducky,
If Mo had gotten that lost out, it would only guarantee a trip to the world series. It also has nothing to do with Alex’s average with RISP or men on base for the next 3 postseasons.
Boras lost what little respect people still had for him by making the Mo robbed A-rod of Yankee glory argument.
I’ll give you number 2, though.
Peter, will we ever know what Clemens was talking about when he said, “Every decision you make might not make somebody else happy,” he said. “I wish there were three of me. I really do. My innermost thoughts and feelings that I’m keeping close to my heart, when it’s all said and done at the end of the year, I’ll tell you the exact reasons why I did what I did.”???
mel,
That statement by Boras blaming Mo was one for the books. Did he really just say that? He’s a real piece of work.
gargoyle
I think I read somewhere that after the 2004 season, the Red Sox changed 17 of the 25 players they won with. Theo has a history of not letting sentiment stand in his way of making changes. I don’t see the same amount of changes this year but I’m sure he has at least one or 2 cards that will be played.
If A-Rod were to accept arbitration, which I know is not happening, he would lose his no trade clause for 2008. It would also extend the time where the Yanks & A Rod could negotiate a new deal, food for thought, albeit spoiled food.
even if it’s true what Boras said about Mo in 04′, just that it came out of his pathetic mouth is what pissed me off
Wilpon, the son was on SNY and said Minaya hasn’t even mentioned A-Rod to them as a possibility. Somebody isn’t telling the truth.
From what I’ve read and seen. You’ve actually never seen Theo mix it up with his players like their buds? Going to clubs with them, participating in their celebrations, performing rock songs with them on stage, etc?
Cashman keeps his distance. Whether this is right or wrong or makes any difference is anybody’s guess, but the Sox players seem to enjoy playing for Theo and the team.
My guess is that the word spreads around the league that Theo is a “real guy” to play for and that he builds a better rapport during negotiations and after you are a member of the team. I can also guess that this attracts players, some of them good ones. I can also say that the Sox have won two WS since 2004 and that Curt practically begged to be re-signed for 8 mil while Andy is not sure what he wants to do for 16 mil, and that the Hendricks bros will be milking the Yanks for more.
Barry paved the way for Arod in SanFran. The fans rally behind stat-chasers even when the team loses. He can do no wrong there. PacBell and co. will pay top dollar to remove the asterisk from their stadium sign.
“If the Sox sign A-Rod, they will have completed the transformation from pathetic perennial bridesmaid to the Evil Empire. With all the money tied up in Ortiz, Nancy Drew, Dice- K, The Cooler and Manny, welcome to additional luxury tax burdens and the destruction of your farm system”
murphydog-
i was looking up john henry last night because of something sj44 said a few weeks ago about henry taking a hit to his hedge fund business. herny has lost something like 75% of the funds invested in his fund. as sj44 said ,he clearly doesn’t have the money that he used to.
he’s not even a billionaire at this point according to fortune magazine. george sqeaks in there at about 1.2 billion.
my point is that the red sox may be in no financial position to go after arod. the red sox may pull back because they think the yankees are not the problem that they used to be. if cashman is going to use his smarts , there’s no better time than now with the red sox owner in a cash bind. after seeing the red sox owners financial situation, i’m feeling better about the yankees ability to compete with the red sox.
as it turns out both ownerships have problems at the top.
enough already with this Arod crap he’s gone he’s not coming back
I hear ya. A Rod doesn’t need any help screwing up his legacy. He and his agent are doing just fine on their own.
Agree to an extent, but you have to remember that up until Mo’s blown save, A-Rod was ripping the cover off of the ball and who knows if that would have continued in the WS, making his future poor playoff slumps more palatable.
I’m a lifelong Yankee fan and all, but I do have to say that what Theo and C. have done with that team is admirable.
Much in the way that Boston fans couldn’t properly “hate” the 96 Yankee team, I find it’s the same situation for me with this Sox team. Too many smiles and obvious team chemistry that I find to be enjoyable.
Unless you believe in this “curse” nonsense and a century old blood feud between the NYY and Boston, then I think you can appreciate from afar much of what is going right for the RS this year. It reminds me of the late nineties for this fan base and chances are, it’ll come around again soon enough.
By the way. I can’t believe they are considering Tejada as an option. I thought the paln was to get younger and more athletic. I realize the asking would be for a lot less than Cabrera, but come on. I’ll go on the record and say that is a terrible idea.
Ducky:
Yes, Cashman has made mistakes that all of us have taken issue with, but what GM hasn’t? Especially Theo. The Yankees are the most successful organization in MLB, so of course they are willing to outspend their competition for established talent. Many of the expensive and unadvisable signings cannot be entirely blamed on Cashman but rather on the Tampa faction. Still, the bottom line for a GM is how often he gets the Organization into post season contention and he’s got a pretty damn fair track record.
Depressed about the Yankees direction in 2008??? Are you joking? 94 wins, a Post Season berth in 2007, a Top 5 MilB organization, some of the best young pitching prospects in MLB, and the owner’s blessing to sign high profile free agents to fill roster holes?
Maybe you should have the experience of being a Chicago Cubs Fan or a Kansas City Royals Fan for a few decades!
rumors I’m hearing is No-K is on the table, I wonder who takes him ?
LathamJoe
could not have said it any better i’m tired of these young kids who became Yankee fans in the 90′s they are just spoiled
“Maybe you should have the experience of being a Chicago Cubs Fan or a Kansas City Royals Fan for a few decades!”
Or a Yankee fan, circa 1965-74, 1979-80, 1982-95. The first set was lean, the other two mean.
———-
95 we made the playoffs
94 we were the best team in the AL
Why are people so upset about the Yankees overspending and overextending for Mo and Jorge? I can see the reason for it in not signing say Hunter or Jones, but Mo and Jorge aren’t going to be traded no matter what, so it doesn’t affect flexibility. And since the Yankees will always be willing to throw more money at the problem, it doesn’t really matter if Jorge is the back-up c in the last couple of years of his contract, or that Mo is a middle reliever. (I imagine Mo would retire before that happened anyway.) If Jorge’s the backup, the Yankees would still spend another 16 million to sign the starter if that’s what they needed to do.
As for FA choosing Boston over NY because they think Epstein’s a nicer guy than Cashman, I just don’t buy it. Who’s the last guy to say no to the Yankees money? I wish some of them had — Pavano and yes, maybe Damon I would have been happy to see go to that nice GM up in Boston. The reason Theo is up 2-0 in WS since ’04 might be because he’s a better GM, but more likely it’s because the Yankees didn’t have the pitching, there were no decent FA pitchers to be had, and they didn’t have the minor leaguers to trade for the pitcher’s who were on the trade market. If Cashman stays the course and holds onto Joba, Huges, Kennedy, and some of the others, the Yankees are going to be fine.
Lathamjoe,
Yeah, most Yankees fans, including myself, are spoiled. But the construction of this team in 2007, for 200 mil was not very good.
For 2008, on offense, currently we have no power to speak of, unless moves are made. Yes, we have some promising pitchers, but unless we make changes we do NOT have a true, dominant #1. Wang is NOT it. Joba, if he starts, has the potential, but he hasn’t proven anything to date as far as starting is concerned.
We are stuck with a miserable Mussina contract, Pavano is, well Pavano, and to make matters worse, recovering from TJ, Pettitte isn’t signed, and even if he were, he has a delicate arm, Kennedy has all of 19 inn pitched, Hughes still has prove he can live up to his reputation and showed poor mechanics after the injury, and Igawa belongs in Japan.
We have Kyle Friggin Farnsworth in the pen and little else besides young, unproven arms.
Yes, I’m concerned, even if 36 yo catcher, Posada and 37 yo Mo (who isn’t the Mo of yesteryear) re-sign.
Yanks in ’08 and forward are in good shape. We’re building a FRANCHISE, not just a one-year team. The goal isn’t to just win ONE. It’s an improved Franchise from top to bottom, for years to come. So far, So good.
Does anyone have a timetable on Tabata, could we see him in ’09? I imagine that’s a lofty goal right?
“could not have said it any better i’m tired of these young kids who became Yankee fans in the 90’s they are just spoiled”
Yeah, Ducky seems like one of those know-it-all spoiled 90′s Yankee fans.
But he’s really a Red Sox troll with his love of Theo and Cash bashing. Just ignore him.
Chris, as a Yanks fan I went through the miserable 80′s.
And you can’t be too bright to think that anyone who has a differing opinion of the team than you is either a Sox fan or a troll. If I had to guess your age, it sounds like you started following the Yanks in the 2000′s.
No cigar for you this time.
“My guess is that the word spreads around the league that Theo is a “real guy†to play for”
tell that to pedro, lowe, garciaparra, bronson arrojo, damon,rentaria, trot nixon, orlando cabrera,bellhorn, loretta,alex gonzalez,pena etc.
i’ll bet they are saying what a two faced $%^%$$#$ he is. it’s about the numbers to the red sox. nothing more and nothing less.
——- and long time:
Absolutely! I have also experienced the Yankees’ dynasty of the Late 50s/Early 60s, but also their horrible seasons of the mid-60s/Early 70s with CBS and the mediocre 80s.
The younger fans have only known the succesful years from 1995 on and cannot fathom a Team suffering through lean years.
My reference to “94″ was the number of wins in 2007. Not a bad finish considering the injuries and the slow start.
Thats right. If anything, hes a GM that keeps himself seperate of personal feelings towards players. He doesn’t sign or keep a player just because they were the ‘face’ of the team, or whatever.
In that sense, hes a good GM.
I’ll bet that Nomar wish the Red Sox had treated him like the Yankees treated Bernie. Bernie just couldn’t take a hint.
Brian, Tabata will be 20 going on 21 in 2009. My guess is probably 2010 or late call up in 2009.
He’s shown the ability to drive the ball, had a decent OBP and OPS in 2007, but I think the Yanks would also like to see a bit more power.
My guess is at least a full year or two in Scranton before we see him.
if he weren’t a Yankee he would be in the MLB right now, the Yankees don’t like to rush their prospects, but my guess is he could be up end of 08′ if he dominates AA next season, but 09′ is a definite.
DMan,
Kind of like being a parent, huh? You have to be a mom or dad, not a “friend”, to your kids.
I can’t believe they’d consider Tejada considering the whispers and accusations about him.
Jennifer it reaks desperation
I can’t believe anything until we hear a deal is done. We were told last week that Mo should be done soon, now they are offering him more money, and I read in another paper that he just might test the market since he got this far. Everything that is said is just to confuse other gm’s and agents. It is all half truths.
mel and randy,
No doubt the Sox org treat some players who are out the door like crap. But there is a cohesiveness WHILE on the team and Theo gets more involved with the players on a personal level, meaning that while he recruits you and while you are playing you are treated well.
The Nomar situation was more a Lucchino snafu than a Theo one, where he trashed him a day later.
An, no, Bernie was not treated like the gentleman and long-time face of the Yanks as he should have. It could have been handled better in the press. Some of Cashman’s comments at the time (no I won’t look for them) seemed so calculated and ungrateful, considering that Bernie’s ego was badly bruised. I’m not defending Bernie’s manner in handling his needing to win a job, but that should have been overlooked. You cannot find more of a gentleman than Bernie in the game.
More reason why Arod needs more money:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11.....384624.htm
On D Ball,
Except now A-Rod will be looking for a castle overlooking the Charles River. Mark my words.
OK ?
As for Lowe, the Sox actually protected him to an extent. I’ve heard some WILD stories, from some good sources, about his days in Boston. I mean really wild. Beyond wild. He and the Sox knew his days were numbered and he had to go.
Ducky,
O.K. I get it. Theo’s a great buddy and that helps him do his job well.
But comparing Theo’s personality and style to Cashman’s is comparing apples to oranges. Or comparing Abercrombie & Fitch to Dockers.
It’s not like either one of these guys is Isiah Thomas. Both are competent, both are good.
Like I said earlier, I support Cashman because he’s our guy. Even in this time of uncertainty and transition, I think most of us here trust he’ll get the job done. We like the direction he’s heading and the manner he’s doing it in.
” If anything, hes a GM that keeps himself seperate of personal feelings towards players. He doesn’t sign or keep a player just because they were the ‘face’ of the team, or whatever.
In that sense, hes a good GM.”
i wouldn’t go that far. he just spent the most ever to win a world series. that doesn’t make him a genius. where would the red sox have been if they didn’t send the 53 million posting fee to japan for matsuzaka. we’re not talking billy beane stuff here.
how does theo follow that 53 million move last winter? how do they get better this year? if lowell leaves they’re immediatley worse. they are not without problems.
Look, I’m not discrediting Theo and annointing Cashman as a genius.
Player personnel moves involve a large element of luck.
A great example is Pavano – the Rajah of Rehab. He was sought after by all the big market teams – especially NY and Boston. Cashman outmanuevered Theo..but we know how that ended up.
Ducky has been critical of the Yankees $200 Mil payroll and lack of good starting pitching. Obviously accurate.
But examine it further. What free agent starters were available that would have been better options at the time of our signings (except Wright – big mistake!)?
What starters could Cashman have obtained from small market teams (Beckett comes to mind) through trade? What Yankee prospects were available to Cashman, even 2 years ago, that would have enticed any Organization like Florida to trade a potential ace?
That scenario and the fact that the free agent market now has gone ridiculously overboard for starting pitching has made Cashman a very smart in his investment of great, young starters for the forseeable future.
Ducky, to say that Cashman has always thrown money at a problem area is just nonsense. Shawn Chacon did not have money thrown at him. Robinson Cano and Chien Ming Wang did not have money thrown at them. Cashman knows what he’s doing more than you’d like to think. And to even suggest that A-Rod cares about “family themes” or anything like that which makes Theo the better GM is just ridiculous. Also, about Posada and Mo, Cashman did the right thing this season. He showed that he wanted to wait and see how they did before resigning them. That’s totally fair. What if they would have had bad years? Both of them are injury prone (Posada is just because hes a catcher and Mo was gettin older and demonstrated that last year) and he was waiting to see if the value on their contracts would go down. Instead they went up. It’s not a problem its just part of the business.
LOL at Brian Cashman is a “bean-counter.” It appears that even Peter Abraham disagrees with you to an extent.
“A lot of people have an impression of Brian Cashman being this nerdy administrator. It’s actually quite the opposite. He’s a very funny guy.”
This is a 2 year plan set to lay the foundation for a string of World Championships like 96-2000.
The first point is to acknowledge that 2008 is a transitional season. The motto would be ‘Out with the Old, In with the New’. New manager, almost a whole new pitching staff.
The plan for 2008:
Let the young pitchers get a full seasons work. Let Betemit play 3rd all season.
Don’t go out and sign any free agents. Don’t trade away talent. Just accept that 2008 is transitional and a building season. We should try out new guys (let some talent from AAA and AA play a bit), develop our young pitching, and give guys like Sardniho, Betemit, and Duncan some playtime to see how they perform.
Then in 2009 we have:
-Our young pitchers a year older and wiser and have had a full season in the majors to develop. We will be more keen on how they will look in the future. We can better assess their market value and perhaps trade away anyone who doesn’t look like they’ll perform up to predictions.
-Giambi’s contract is up.
-Abreu’s contract is up.
-Farnsworth’s contract is up.
-Pavano’s contract is up.
-Mussina’s contract is up.
-Pettite’s contract is up (this is assuming he comes back and plays 1 more year in 2008).
That is a HUGE salary dump. This will give us a TON of money to use in the free agent market.
As of right now, here’s some free agents that will be available after the 2008 season:
-Francisco Rodriguez (RP, Anaheim)
-A.J. Burnett (SP, Toronto)
-Jake Peavy (SP, Padres)
-Johan Santana (SP, Twins)
-C.C. Sabathia (SP, Cleveland)
-John Lackey (SP, LAA)
-Mark Texeira (1B, Atlanta)
-Jim Thome (1B, Chicago)
-Vladimir Guerrero (OF, LAA)
-Carl Crawford (OF, Tampa)
-Jose Vidro (2B, SEA)
-Jose Guillen (OF)
-Garrett Anderson (OF, LAA)
-Rocco Baldelli (OF)
-Pat Burrell (OF, PHI)
-Hank Blalock (3B, T)
Pretty good free agent pool, notably for starting pitching. ALL free agents of whom we would have to give up no talent for.
My suggestion would be to sign Johan Santana, Mark Texeira, another SP (Peavy, Lackey, Burnett) and perhaps an OF (Carl Crawford preferably).
That would mean, for 2009, our team would look like:
-Johnny Damon (OF)
-Carl Crawford (OF)
-Derek Jeter (SS)
-Jorge Posada (C)
-Mark Texeira (1B)
-Hideki Matsui (DH)
-Wilson Betemit (3B)
-Robinson Cano (2B)
-Melky Cabrera (OF)
-Johan Santana
-Peavy, Lackey, or Burnett
-Chien Ming Wang
-Phil Hughes
-Ian Kennedy
-Joba would become reliever.
That pitching is undoubtedly the best staff. With a staff like that, I can see the foundation for a World Series Championship in the 1st year of the new stadium.
Then, in 2010, we can get a good 3B when Adrian Beltre and Miguel Cabrera become free agents.
Of course, if the Yanks pony up and grab A-Rod this year, even better.
It’s possible that Lowell could play for the Yankees in ’08. How do you guys feel about that?
I think he’s gonna resign with Boston.
Propaghandi,
You had me all the way until the last sentence. I mean it was really good. But you lost me at the end. LOL.
“tell that to pedro, lowe, garciaparra, bronson arrojo, damon,rentaria, trot nixon, orlando cabrera,bellhorn, loretta,alex gonzalez,pena etc.
i’ll bet they are saying what a two faced $%^%$$#$ he is. it’s about the numbers to the red sox. nothing more and nothing less.”
i’m with randy here. i think some of those guys on this list were simply business decisions and there is no hard feelings, but i think Theo has pissed off a lot of other teams with the way he has done business. free agents will still sign in Boston b/c they pay real money, but there are SEVERAL instances of Theo bending (not breaking) some ethical boundaries:
1. the Nomar trade – the Twins were supposedly promised another prospect from Boston and Theo backed out of that and never sent the prospect
2. Shoppach for Bigbie – the Sox told the Rockies they would trade Shoppach for Bigbie if the Rockies acquired Bigbie from the O’s. The Rockies traded Eric Byrnes for Bigbie and the Red Sox backed out of their half of the trade.
3. Kevin Millar – there is a “gentleman’s” agreement that when teams sell players to Japan, no one will make a waiver claim to hold up that transaction. the Sox claimed Millar. it violated NO rules, but raised eyebrows.
4. Brandon Lyon – Theo traded Lyon, who was injured, to the pirates for Mike Gonzalez. the Pirates made a stink about it and the Sox were forced to take Lyon back in the Suppan trade. 4 months later they traded Lyon again to the D-Backs in the Schilling trade. Lyon then missed the entire next season.
this idea of Theo being some great guy is bizarre. he is smart, no doubt, but some of the ideas in this thread are crazy.
mel, it would be a disaster his numbers do not fair well in Yankees stadium
i don’t like lowell’s record away from fenway. i don’t think he’d hit well for the yankees.
but i think cashman should feign interest to jack up the price the red sox pay.every million they pay to lowell is a million they don’t have somewhere else.
Propaghandi,
Yeah, I heard he was onboard until he found out he wasn’t invited to the last “frathouse” party at Theo’s.
LOL mel
I would love A-Rod in Boston.
:wonders what Suzyn Waldman would say when Clemens retires:
Miller,
Are you a Yankee fan or a Sox fan?
no you wouldn’t
Miller,
Are you a Yankee fan or a Sox fan?
Because that comment is too ambiguous.
Brandon, I’m not sure what she’ll say, but whatever it is I’m pretty sure it will involve crying and snot-bubbles.
“Oh the HORROR!”
“Pretty good free agent pool, notably for starting pitching. ALL free agents of whom we would have to give up no talent for.”
i agree that the yankees should be ready to spend in 2009 by not tieing themselves up, but many of those guys will never make it to Free Agency.
Peavy has an option for 2009.
Crawford has an option for 2009.
Vlad has an option for 2009.
Baldelli has a team option for 2009.
except for maybe Baldelli, i’d guess all of these options would be picked up.
do you really see Anaheim letting K-Rod get away?
Anderson, Blalock, Guillen? pass, pass, pass.
Teixiera could be a possibility. i think he will become a FA. maybe Santana.
but i would guess that most of these guys won’t ever make it to FA in 2009.
Yanks need a 3rd baseman and a#4 hitter for the line up.
Will it be one and the same players,or will we go separately with a Joe Crede at 3rd and possibly Giambi as full time DH and clean up hitter.
Pitching, pitching, pitching, and more pitching.Especially if we lose Andy.I think we should kick the tires on Jon Garland,and while we are it,ask about Paul Konerko.
Tell ya what Ducky, the Socks will spend the rest of our lifetimes and much more just trying to measure up to Yankee world championships.
They first have to catch the Cardinals with 10 world championships all time before ever thinking about the Yankees.
For words of encouragement, the Socks haven’t repeated as world champions since 1916.
O.K. most of you don’t want Lowell, but if he came you’d welcome him right?
pounder,
Stop picking the Crede scab. It had almost healed up.
If I am Brian Cashman, here’s what I would do . . .
1). Resign Posada and Rivera, which increases the chances of Pettite coming back.
2). As for 3B . . .
Keep the young arms (Joba, Hughes IPK) and position players (Gardner, Tabata, Jackson), but deal from surplus pitching (i.e.. Igawa, Karstens, Horne, Rasner, Clippard, Henn–all of whom all have some chance of holding down a spot in an NL rotation or bullpen).
Trade for Scott Rolen (he and LaRussa hate each other, the Cards want to dump his salary and they need pitching). Rolen has three years left and breaks down, but can he had for the kind of pitchers we’d be willing to deal. Betemit and Phillips are his short-term back-up.
At the same time I’d go after a long-term fix (using that same pool of excess starters) like a Chase Headley from the Padres. This guy is bright, is a “character guy,†a switch-hitter and was Texas League player of the year in 2007. Supposedly, he’s a year or two away from the bigs–but almost certain to get there. He would fill the 3B hole for a long time to come and we don’t mortgage the future.
Better yet, this scenario is probably do-able. The Cards and Padres both need pitching and we have plenty of arms to move.
3). Resign the Viz and Molina, an possibly another middle reliever like LaTroy Hawkins. Then let Sanchez, Beam, Ohlendorf, Ramirez and Veras duke it out in spring to fill out the pitching staff.
4). Kyle Farnsworth is the wild-card. He’s got great stuff and maybe Girardi and Harkey can help him unscrew his head. But if the right offer comes along–he’s gone . . .
That’s what I’d do . . . The holes are filled, the draft choices preserved, and we keep the kids.
To Bucky Dent:
Fortunately for Arod, the housing cost overlooking the Charles River are much less than those in NY.
So Arod should be able to live on the lower salary he is likely to get from Boston.
propaghandi remember, you can only sign 3 type A free agents a year, so there is no way they can sign crawford, teixiera, burnett, and johan all in the same offseason, maybe in a video game but not in real life.
i still think joba should be in the rotation for many years, but thats just my opinion. I really want to see how ajax and tabata play out before signing more FA outfielders
Guys, Pete said to ignore flaming homosexuals. Or was that me? Ignore ducky bent.
Russel NY, that’s a brilliant post for somebody whose IQ probably borders around 62-65! How do you come up with such profound gems?
betemit is being plugged in at first base and third base in a lot of plans for 2008. after looking good initially, i’m not sure what i think of him getting so much playing time.
he’s a good utility player, but counting on him for more than a few hundred at bats may be expecting too much.
Enough with thirdbase is what I think..
There are no good options out there for the Yankees.
Either the players are terrible, or they’ll cost the Yankees WAY to much..
I mean I love the optimism and everything of trying to put together trade packages and such.. But we’re not being realistic.
Chances are you’ll see Wilson over at third, or you’ll see Robbie Cano move over there.
Why not look at the bullpen? Are you folks comfortable with a bullpen made up of:
Farnsworth
Britton
Edwar
Ohlendorf
Veras?
Karstens?
Rasner?
Henn?
Igawa?..
Doesn’t the bullpen panic people more than thirdbase?
mel, I’d rather get Edwin Encarnacion, Beltre or even Crede than Lowell, he’s not I don’t want to make it sound like other people but Lowell isn’t a Yankee and that wipe out play vs Cano had me wishing Lowell hurts himself one day.
Lowell will stay with the Sox — there will be rioting in the streets if Boy Wonder were to sign PayRod.
Plus, I’ve read stories in the past that the Yankees were sort of duped into going after him a few years ago. The Sox postured like the were making a run and our FO fell for it.
Do the math yourself of how that turned out as far as rings go. (ugh.)
Pete, I read in Kepner’s article today that Aaron Boone’s name was tossed around. They said no interest but did you hear anything to this effect?
mel,
im a die hard Yankees fan. People think he suffered psychogical damage in NY, he goes through one little slump in Boston after being paid what is reportadly not going to be any less than 30 Mill they will turn on blacks during the busing riots.
Ive lived in Boston, its much different than New York. They arent right in the head.
clarify
They will turn ON HIM like they did black during bussing riots.
The Red Sox aren’t a well-rounded team, they are a team designed to hit to the softball-wall, which is why they are even in this in the first place. Where would they be if they played in a normal ballpark? FYI, the Yankees are lefty-heavy because of the short porch.
if we go into Spring Training with Wilson Betemit still at third, i’d take a flyer on Aaron Boone, and let him work through camp. but you cant sign him now with the intent of him being your everyday 3B for 2008.
Miller,
Thanks for clarifying. I kind of figured that you were wishing something on your worst enemy.
Hey I live in Boston =P
We’re not all crazy!
There’s one thing I want to know before we install Betemit, Cano, or anyone at 3rd. How do they handle popups?
#1. A COWARD doesnt have the stones to sign with the sox. He would have to hear it all year from the yankee fans and the players. That isnt going to happen. Its California for him.
#2. No on Lowell if more than 3 years.
#3. O.C. I like the ideas you presented but Headley wont go anywhere. They will get rid of Kouzmanof so they could make room for him. I still think San Diego could land us something for cheap. Kouz for Igawa,move him to first and maybe go with your plan on getting Rolen as long as they eat a some of his contract. If not look to getting Beltre.
If Cano is at third Jeter needs to CLARIFY that any pop up in play is his.
Cano had a alot of issues regarding pop ups behind first base this year.
Betemit is good w/ pop ups, he looks sweeter at 2B and SS.
And Miller, the difference if Alex goes to Boston is Manny and Ortiz would be more supportive, Boston has this college teammates/little league teammates atmosphere, and you have to understand the latinos step up for each other Alex in Boston would be scary as hell
I don’t like the idea of Cano moving to 3B. He’s an established 2B. Then we’d have to scramble for a 2B? Plus he was really hitting his stride at the plate, any changes may be a distraction for him.
“At the same time I’d go after a long-term fix (using that same pool of excess starters) like a Chase Headley from the Padres. This guy is bright, is a “character guy,†a switch-hitter and was Texas League player of the year in 2007. ”
ok, but then why would they trade him?
the Padres are not going to trade their top 3B prospect for the Yanks 2nd tier pitching prospects.
Can’t take on Rolen’s contract after 2 shoulder surgeries.
That would be a bad gamble. To be on the hook for 36 million dollars for a guy whose health is in question is not the way to go.
You just wait out the market. Cashman did it when he got Damon, when the CF option (Bubba Crosby) was a lot less palatable.
Right now, his priority should be getting Posada, Rivera and Pettitte back into the fold. After that, he should address the bullpen and re-sigining Molina.
After that, the third base market should be more settled. Lowell will most likely re-sign with Boston. Cabrera is going to get traded and its most likely to one of the teams Arod/Boras are talking to at this time. Meaning, the Arod “drama” could go drag out until Christmas.
After Cabrera and Arod find new homes, the third base market gets back to reality. That’s when the Yankees can address it in a more logical fashion.
Right now, any move the Yankees make for a third baseman involves overpaying for that player. No need to do that now since, its only November.
for the record, i would hate it if the yankee moved cano to 3B.
Cano is the best defensive player on the yankees. it doesn’t make sense to move him down the defensive spectrum.
QUICK FIX FOR minimul cost
Move Cano to third and sign Loretta at 2nd base.
Brandon I guess your right.
Plus, all his near home runs that were pop ups at the stadium would be doubles at Fenway.
I wonder what Miguel Tejadas value is at right now.
He’s got a fairly good contract. If he says he’d be willing to move to Third, I wonder if the Yankees go after him. I’d rather have Tejada than Beltre, doesn’t hurt that he’s Right Handed.
If you can get Tejada without trading the Big 3– I’d sign up for that. Melky, Horne, prospect, and prospect. They have also expressed interest for the Farns, eat most of his contract and get this guy out of here!
“Cano is the best defensive player on the yankees”
That is questionable.
“Right now, any move the Yankees make for a third baseman involves overpaying for that player. No need to do that now since, its only November.”
but this blog demands answers NOW!!11!!11!
“That is questionable.”
not really.
who is better?
Anyone mad that we didnt go after Brad Lidge for an 8th inning guy. Does anyone know if Philly gave up more than he’s worth.
“QUICK FIX FOR minimul cost
Move Cano to third and sign Loretta at 2nd base.”
I’d sign up for Cano at third and getting a 2B. Sign Loretta for a 1 year or two. Then maybe try to sign a Hudson, Roberts, Freddy Sanchez down the line if any make it to Free Agency.
Pitching and defense win rings. We need all the pitching in the world and I would not give up pitching for a short term fix at 3rd. Even if we were to sign or trade for a long term soultion at 3rd this team still is not a world series contender. You forget we did not have a 3rd base problem last year and got production out of that spot and still got bounced in round 1. Replacing A-Rod’s production will not have as much of an impact as you think. We lost games last year because of pitching.We don’t need sluggers.We won because of pitching and defense.No superstar ego’s. Our bullpen is terrible as there is no sure thing outside of Joba and Mo. We can get all the sluggers in the world but that won’t help Farnsworthless throw a 1-2-3 inning.If the starters cannot go 6+ and the bullpen cannot get it to Mo it does not matter who you bring in here. Remember Joba is a starter now so we need the starters to go even deeper. The team has bigger needs than a 3rd basemen and that would be PITCHING!
“Anyone mad that we didnt go after Brad Lidge for an 8th inning guy. Does anyone know if Philly gave up more than he’s worth.”
would you be willing to give up Melky plus 2 prospects for 1 year of Lidge?
Bourn is pretty similar to Melky.
trade seems fair for both teams. Lidge was probably worth a little more to the Phillies than other teams b/c it allows them to move Myers back into the rotation.
Phillips,Mienktavich,a lame
I had a problem with Cano not diving after balls that could have been knocked down all year. He would reach for it and it would go right under his mit. Needs to get more dirty at that position IMO. I do have to say he has improved since his rookie year.
Well I mean, its my opinion that its in the franchises best interest not to make a trade for a thirdbaseman. I think that’s Yankee thinking of 2001-2006. I wouldn’t want to move Cano either, so if that means Wilson plays third, than so be it.
The asking price is just so high right now. Every team across the league is on a prospect high. They want as many of them as they can get.
If the Yankees are going to trade prospects, I’d rather see it for BP pitchers, not for thirdbaseman that might last a few seasons..
If the asking price starts to go down for some of the thirdbasemen around the league, than fine, entertain some offers.. But its just to high right now.
Cano is undoubtedly the best defensive player on the Yanks.
Melky is the best defensive player on the team right now.
Sos they gave up a RHP Geary who is uspect and a speedster OF named Micheal Bourne, he is what Brett Gardner will be for us , athletic, speedy, good plate recognition, but a little more power. Philly got the steal in this deal.
Global Warming- I would love to have Hudson on the team. I heard teams are going after him(im thinking he is available).Good speed,good bat, great glove. I just dont know if they would ask the moon for him.
“I’d sign up for Cano at third and getting a 2B. Sign Loretta for a 1 year or two. Then maybe try to sign a Hudson, Roberts, Freddy Sanchez down the line if any make it to Free Agency.”
if moving from 2B to 3B is so easy, why not have the NEW guy play 3B instead of asking your 24 year old all-star 2Bman to worry about changing positions?
it is a misconception that Robbie was a 3Bman in the minors.
FIVE games. that’s how many games Robbie has played at 3B. he’s played 58 games at SS. why not move him to SS and move Jeter to 3B? no? why not?
“FIVE games. that’s how many games Robbie has played at 3B. he’s played 58 games at SS. why not move him to SS and move Jeter to 3B? no? why not?”
Jeter wouldnt be able to throw the ball past the pitchers mound from third base.
“Melky is the best defensive player on the team right now.”
no he isn’t.
find me a single metric that says Melky is better than Cano.
FYI: “b/c i said so” is not a metric.
the best fielder on this team roster is Alberto Gonzalez then it’s Robbie Cano then it’s Melky Cabrera, then Damon and Jetes.
Hollywood Cano is so frustrating, he is SO talented, but has a poor work attitude, OLES linedrives, refuses to dive for balls as he is too Hollywood, someone needs to take him out behind the woodshed, as he could waste such great god giving talents
Brandon,
Thanks im even more pissed now than i was yesterday. We should have made a play for him.
hmmm,
I brought up Cano moving to third for the simple fact that I cant see him staying at 2nd for the rest of his carreer. He has been filling out gradually every year and cant see him keeping a thin frame for second. Also I would think it would be easier to get a second baseman for cheap than a third baseman.
Clearly Giambi is the best defensive player the Yankees have. With Damon in second and Matsui third.
Why even argue about it? It’s so obvouis!
Jeter has a good arm and is probably better suited for 3B than short. He lacks range at short and isn’t good at going to his left.
That said, I’d rather see him at 1st eventually.
My only metric is watching every game this past season.
which i guess isnt that great haha.
Melky has done very poorly in most of the advanced range metrics (Plus/Minus and both Jinaz and Eric Van’s zone translations). It looks like he might not be as good a fielder as a lot of people think.
I say we should put Giambi in the OF to cover both CF and LF. With him out there, 2 OF’s are sufficient.
“Hollywood Cano is so frustrating, he is SO talented, but has a poor work attitude”
this is such horsecrap.
Im going out on the limb and say, the best fielder is on our bench. Yes THE BASH BROTHER(duncan),he just hasnt been given his fair shot.
SoS I was more pissed off than ever when I saw that deal go down, we have Dave Eiland , Mike Harky and Girardi to straighten out the pitching mechanics and Philly gives a C prospect and a B+ prospect for a possible A CL if they get him fixed.
pffffft……… they can’t trade Sanchez or Ohlendorf after that, it just makes us look like we were sleeping
Actually the best glove on the 2007 Yanks was probably Larry Bowa.
Today their is talk that Pads may deal Peavy. Any thoughts on a Peavy for Wang deal? Peavy could be the Ace we are looking for. For an added bonus hes young.
nope it’s Alberto Gonzalez
The Phillies traded all that away for 1 season of Brad Lidge. It was a pretty solid trade for Houston.
“hmmm,
I brought up Cano moving to third for the simple fact that I cant see him staying at 2nd for the rest of his carreer. He has been filling out gradually every year and cant see him keeping a thin frame for second. Also I would think it would be easier to get a second baseman for cheap than a third baseman.”
no, i see your logic. i just think he shouldn’t be moved until that time comes.
playing Robbie at 3B is a misuse of assets, just as playing A-Rod at 3B was but that’s not a debate i want to start.
remember when the mets moved Reyes b/c they wanted to sign Matsui?
until Cano proves he cannot play 2B, he should play 2B. b/c right now he is playing it VERY well despite “not getting his uniform dirty”.
Why does the mere mention of Eric Van’s name make me wanna puke?
“Today their is talk that Pads may deal Peavy. Any thoughts on a Peavy for Wang deal? Peavy could be the Ace we are looking for. For an added bonus hes young.”
Peavy for Wang? Why do people even bother posting this stuff? That’s the most ridiculous trade idea I’ve read this offseason.
Peavy for Wang?
I want some of what you are smoking!
Maybe Peavy for Wang, Cano and Melky, maybe.
“nope it’s Alberto Gonzalez”
Alberto Gonzalez is not on the 2008 yankees yet. neither is mientkiewicz, A-Rod, or even Andy Phillips.
out of the yankees STARTING lineup, Cano is the best defensive player.
American Airlines or Continentel
“Why does the mere mention of Eric Van’s name make me wanna puke?”
Hopefully, it’s not because you’re a biased, immature fan.
hmmmm,
“Because I saw it with my own eyes”
That Melky guy has a pretty good arm, though…
hmmm, we know it’s not going to happen, but give Jeter’s lack of range, better ability to go to his right, decent arm and very good how do you project him at third?
Sorry the above should read:
hmmm, we know it’s not going to happen, but give Jeter’s lack of range, better ability to go to his right, decent arm and very good at fielding pop-ups (foul territory) how do you project him at third?
hmmm they asked who’s the best fielder on the Yankees, I said Gonzalez, Cano, Melky, then Jetes and Damon, Gonzo most likely will be on the 08′ roster
O.k. stop beating me up. The same package rumored for Santana. I believe Wang,Melky and IPK.
Peavy for Wang AND Matsui’s porn collection, maybe.
Ducky Bent, a disaster, he can’t reach throws from SS to 1B, what changes from 3B to 1B ? his margin for error widens , it would make no sense.
Damon is a very good fielder when he’s healthy. He showed solid range last season (more than Melky).
DMan – I agree. i think we move joba to catcher. he’d throw a lot of guys out at second with that arm.
Ducky Bent,
I keep hearing about this porn collection. Whats the story on this?
SoS, Santana’s not getting traded this winter, I’m guessing Minny resigns him as their franchise SP either that or a 08′ midseason deal, 09′ FA.
Cano is slick and makes it look effortless. Hard to imagine someone else at 2B.
Brandon, maybe he’s lost some accuracy in his arm, but I think his arm is strong. How many times have we seen that patented Jeter play where he throws a strike to 1b from deep in the hole, with both feet off the ground?
But yeah, 3b is a different trajectory, so who knows…
How come there aren’t very many converted pitchers at 3B?
Ducky Bent,
I keep hearing about this porn collection. Whats the story on this?
Matsui has made no bones about collecting porn. I believe in Japan it’s pretty common and not as ridiculed as it is here. If I find a link to a story I’ll post it.
Brandon,
The same package for Peavy.
Well, range wise hes pretty good, and he has good insticts out there.. But fielding in my book, also includes his throwing arm.. And he has nothing in that department..
As of 07 November:
C- vacant
– vacant
1B- Giambi
– Duncan
2B- Cano
3B- Betemit
SS- Jeter
Util- vacant
OF- Damon
– Abreu
– Cabrera
– Matsui
– vacant
Ducky Bent,
“His refreshing ability to laugh self-deprecatingly about his porno collection, reporters say, is one reason why fans and even nonfans have taken to him so much. Says former reporter Isao Hirooka: “Hideki just wants to be like ordinary people.”
http://www.time.com/time/asia/.....atsui.html
Mel,
You got me to remember who the best fielder on the team is. The Moose.
Damon’s arm makes Bernie Williams’s look like Mondesi’s in comparison.
Speaking of Moose, Andy Pettitte fields his position pretty well too.
buster olney reported the idea for peavy was for phil hughes and melky.
We can all agree that Abreu is the worst fielder, right?
Phil–
You are forgetting Andy Phillips as 1B as well as utility
too much wait for FA
Jetes has to jump to make those throws land to 1B, and even then he has loss that zip on his throws. People forget remember Jetes is not a fundamental fielder
If you are including pitchers, than Mo is the best fielder on the team. Go watch BP sometime and watch him take grounders at short and track flies in the OF. He’s good.
I could live with Betemit at 3rd IF we get Miggy to play 1st and have Giambi DH or come off the bench.
Without A-Rod, need some power in this lineup or else they are going to pitch around whomever is putting up fair power numbers at the time.
“We can all agree that Abreu is the worst fielder, right?”
Abreu is much better than Matsui.
Giambi is pretty terrible.
no comment on our beloved SS.
Ducky,
Just got here and wanted to comment on something you said about the A-Rod trade to the Yankees in 2004. If I recall correctly, I believe that deal was done by Cashman and started out when the Yankees were in the process of getting Mike Lamb. Randy Levine signed off on the deal, but Cashman made it.
It’s easy to focus on the mistakes that Cashman has made. It’s easy to give Openheimer credit for the farm system. Still, Cashman could easily have traded the kids at the deadline this deal, he could have given up more for Abreu. He’s also made some good scrap heap moves, like getting Chacon in 2005 (who had encouraging home/road splits that year with Colorado). Bringing Pettitte back last year wasn’t half bad either.
Theo Epstein has also brought in Matt Clement, JD Drew and Julio Lugo, all of whom were disappointments for the majority of the season. This is the first year Theo’s Sox have beaten the Yankees in the regular season and if you include post-season only the second time they’ve had a better year than the Yankees. It’s fair to adjust for payroll, but even with that the Yankees have a good track record.
The Red Sox won this year on the strength of their pitching. Both Manny and Ortiz had down years for them. The loss of offense with the Yankees doesn’t worry me. As long as Cashman keeps upgrading the pitching, with good young talent or a trade for Santana, I’ll be happy.
Spot on.
Gayle,
I know Cashman mentioned Phillips…for some reason I just don’t think they will carry that many 1B this year once the final roster is set. But that being said, I should have added him to the list as he is on the roster currently.
As of 07 November:
C- vacant
- vacant
1B- Giambi
- Duncan
- Phillips
2B- Cano
3B- Betemit
SS- Jeter
Util- vacant
OF- Damon
- Abreu
- Cabrera
- Matsui
- vacant
Depending on whether they carry 11 or 12 pitchers, of course.
Ducky Bent,
Man Matsui should have brought some of that collection to the clubhouse for the playoff games. Maybe the team would have played looser. They seemed to tight, lots of tension. “Damn it Matsui!! Your the reason why we lost. You blew it.”
wrong Matsui-San is the worst OF I’ve seen in some time in Yankees pinstripes, but he and Bobby combined make Melky look like Tori Hunter out there
“hmmm, we know it’s not going to happen, but give Jeter’s lack of range, better ability to go to his right, decent arm and very good at fielding pop-ups (foul territory) how do you project him at third?”
no idea. probably not well. he has a slow first step and 3B is a reaction position.
he is good at charging so he’d handle those slow rollers pretty well.
Do you realize that the reason why Cano doesn’t dive for balls is because he’s usually in a good fielding position.
Most times when you see certain players *cough* pedroia *cough* diving all the time is because they’re not that great of fielders so they have to dive to catch balls.
It’s also the reason why you hardly ever see Andruw Jones diving.
I guess you guys didn’t see the Abreu I saw.
Moose and Wang are also good fielders, along with Mo of course.
“I guess you guys didn’t see the Abreu I saw.”
we did, but we were also watching Matsui.
I second that. Wouldnt mind having Matsui at d.h. instead.
Brandon,
With an extension to go with the trade. If you wait till he becomes a free agent then you risk the chance of losing out on him due to the competetion youd have.
mel, we all saw the Abooboo you saw he looked at the RF wall like it had barbwires and an electric fence. Did you see the Matsui-San we all did , made easy pop ups into a misread line drive and line drive singles into doubles, fly balls in to adventures.
Well, Porn Star doesn’t treat the wall like an electric fence.
I still love Matsui and Abreu, though.
Yankeejosh,
All good points, and maybe some of my comments have been reactionary or just plain looking at the immediate results, which don’t look as good, especially when compared to Boston, despite some of Theo’s obvious bad moves.
I hope I eat crow in the future and wish I would have had more patience. But I see some of Cashman’s pitching decisions in the pen and sp the past few years and they baffle me. Javy, Mussina’s 2 years, Pavano, Farns, Igawa, to name a few. Sure some may have looked good at the time, or the choices may have been limited, but they are/were busts. Aren’t the results ultimately a huge part in evaluating a GM? Theo somehow got Beckett and Schilling (yeah I remember the situation), regardless if there is a conspiracy against the Yanks or not. He had the ability to see whats available and get it done.
Csahman also misread the market for Dice K and tried to compensate with that awful 30 mil move for Igawa. These type of decisions are what makes me so unsure of him.
Same with me. I’m glad to see people are slowly moving away from these unreal trade ideas and such.. It’s not the way the Yankees work now..
The asking price at 3b is to high, and if the Yankees are going to trade prospects, it should be for solid BP pitchers..
Wilson at 3B is a much better idea than trading for some medicore guy, or tradig the farm for another superstar.
Yankees need roleplayers, not superstars.
SoS I rather pay for a SP then losing Kennedy and Wang in a package which then I would still have to pay anyway. So if it was for Wang I’d do it in a second, Wang and Kennedy throw away my phone # Pods
LOL mel
Since it just came up on Mike and the Mad Dog, there is NO way I’d include Kennedy in a potential trade for Cabrera because that puts the team in a worse position to get Santana. Assuming Hughes or Kennedy will be needed to get Santana, you want to keep the other one. How does this rotation for 2008 sound:
1. Santana
2. Pettitte
3. Wang
4. Chamberlain
5. Kennedy
Alternate: Mussina (Hughes traded for Santana, Moose in the rotation if Pettitte retires)
Meanwhile if you trade Kennedy and don’t get Santana, this is the rotation”
1. Pettitte
2. Wang
3. Hughes
4. Chamberlain
5. Mussina
If Moose can’t do it or someone gets hurt, man is the team screwed. Trading Kennedy for a bat leaves the Yankees too thin in the starting rotation. I’m not necessarily opposed to trading Kennedy, but not for Cabrera. The Yankees of the late 90′s didn’t have a big basher and they still won because of the pitching.
YankeeJosh, where is Joba ?
oh never mind
Ducky,
In retrospect , the Yankees not trading for Schilling after 2003 was a huge mistake. At the time I agreed with Cashman as Vazquez looked like he could be a stud and was much younger. Still, it was a bad decision.
I also agree that Cashman bungled the Dice-K sweepstakes. Granted, the Red Sox bid an insane amount that nobody expect, when the bids were released, I was shocked at how low the Yankees bid was.
It’s certainly fair to have doubts about Cashman, but I think he’s learned from his past mistakes. Elite pitching rarely hits the free agency market now, so the Yankees have shifted to developing their own (Kennedy, Joba, Hughes, Horne, Brackman and trading for arms like Sanchez and Ohlendorf). The Yankees didn’t go after Lily, Meche or any of the mediocre pitchers available last year.
That’s why I am cautiously optimistic. Eventually results matter though, and we’ll see what happens next year.
Arod would be of value to the Mets only because Some Yankees would go out to boo him.
They don’t need his bat or his fielding.
The NY fans have seen him for 4 years. No thrill there.
But the question is how many Yankee fans would actually pay money to boo him. Maybe they will go out once or twice, but not more than that.
Mets would be stupid to get ARod.
Mets already have a killer team. It was their pitching that failed them this season. It fell apart in the last 2 months.
Mets don’t need to score more runs…they need to PREVENT them.
Use the money for ARod on some starters and middle relief.
if the yankees don’t sign mo and posada, i think they might just as well retool for 2009. maybe cashman is waiting to see if he can sign posada and rivera. even though he signed abreau, he’s really laying in the weeds right now. abreau could easily be moved like sheffield last year for prospects.
there’s definitely not a full court press going on to sign anyone. it’s kind of strange(not to mention boring).
if the mets go four years for posada and cashman passes on that, realistically what chance would the yankees have of making the playoffs in 2008. i’d say not much. if that’s the case why go three years on rivera?
a lot more may be hinging on posada than just posada. there may be a domino effect if posada chooses to leave.
the quiet going on is starting to be a message in itself. it turns out boras was right that the yankees would not decide anything in the two week window.
Phil also I think they see Shelley Duncan as the swing guy 1st base and OF so that solves the vacant other OF position