Wrapping it up from Orlando
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 08, 2007 
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Only three GMs (Kevin Towers, Brian Sabean and Billy Beane) have been on the job longer than Brian Cashman. He knows what to expect at this time of the year and the GM Meetings unfolded as he thought they would.
The Yankees can make most any trade they want – as long as they give up Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy.
“People gravitate to quality names and I understand why. Sometimes it takes time to work something out. Sometimes it takes more time for us to be willing to do certain things,” Cashman said. “It’s kind of a predictable feel. I got down here and I was here four days, I you ask me what I thought going into it and what I thought coming out, I thought it was pretty predictable.
“I knew what people would be asking for and I certainly understand that process. I understand why people would ask. I would ask.”
Much like during the July trade deadline, Cashman will be patient and wait for teams to lower their expectations. If the Dodgers unload their top prospects for Miguel Cabrera, so be it. The Yankees didn’t develop all this good young pitchers to trade it.
The question now is whether the Yankees would trade somebody like Jose Tabata, Austin Jackson or Alan Horne to get what they need. It’s uncertain how much value they have.
I’ve heard from several people that Oakland is willing to take a step back to move forward and will be willing to trade many of their veterans – including their pitchers. The Yankees could get involved in that situation.
I’d be wary of Eric Chavez, however. He has three years left on his deal and has become injury prone.
“I’m not going to tell you right now who I’m going to wind up with,” Cashman said about third base. “But I’m hopeful at some point that I can bring some clarity to that and do something that makes a lot of sense. But that’s going to take a lot of time to materialize.”
As for me, I have a plane to catch. Joe Torre’s charity dinner is tomorrow night in Manhattan and I’ll be there to speak to Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera. Bruce Springsteen is playing as well, so I’ll be trying to sneak in somehow.
“People gravitate to quality names and I understand why. Sometimes it takes time to work something out. Sometimes it takes more time for us to be willing to do certain things,†Cashman said.
Should I be worried about this? Is this a foreshadowing of deals to come involving people we don’t to be involved? who they told us would not be involved?
If Oakland is willing to deal pitchers, you have to kick the tires on Haren, Blanton, and Street.
Finally some pictures again. I’ve been waiting for them all these days.
Great job, Peter.
You’re amazing!
Peter,
What’s your take on a Kyle Farnsworth and 2 lesser prospects for Miguel Tejada trade?
I’ve heard that Baltimore is interested in Farnsy, and that it wouldn’t take very much to get Tejada.
Any thoughts?
“I’ve heard that Baltimore is interested in Farnsy, and that it wouldn’t take very much to get Tejada.”
1) is all the noise true about his appearing in the Mitchell report? Have to wait for that.
2) will he demand compensation for moving to 3rd? Is he in reality a better SS than Jeter right now, and so Jeter should put his ego aside and move to third?
3) will moving to a legit team keep him from getting cranky and dogging it down to 1B on ground balls? Will Jeter/Girardi be able to shame him into trying hard every day?
4) might his lackadaisical play (not running out grounders and fly balls, etc) rub off on a still-impressionable Cano?
If you can get Haren for Hughes or Kennedy, you do it. He’s an Ace, he knows the AL and he’s young and he’s a horse who would lead the rotation quite well. That’s the type of move this team should be making.
I’d kick the tires on Street too, but Beane is about maximizing value in his deal and packaging assets is not his way.
If Cashman announced Hughes for Haren tomorrow, we should all be dancing in the street.
I’m warming up to the idea of Tejada at 3rd. Hopefully the O’s want to deal and unload his contract.
No way do I trade Hughes for Haren.
I’m not too high on Tejada. While I think he’s a gamer and cares a lot about winning, I also think he’s a juicer and we’ve all seen first hand with Giambi what happens to them when they age.
Bonds didn’t age that way because I think he was more into the HGH which can lengthen a career. Steroids tend to ruin it. The ligaments start to snap and the use of the juice affects hormones when they go off it.
I think he’s too much of a risk and if the guy doesn’t want to play 3b, we should not try to convince him to do so.
I’d almost rather keep Farnsworth and see if Girardi and the new pitching coaches can help him get over the hump.
For what it’s worth, Farnsworth pitched in the ALDS and didn’t give up a run in his inning and the pressure was high.
I’m not sure we throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. Let’s see what the new staff can do with a guy with his arm.
Miguel Tejada is a very good player, but there is too much of a cloud around him. Baltimore would ask for too much in return. And there are many problems with Tejada- attitude, work ethic, a possible steroid cloud, and his hesitation to switch positions. With the possible steroid cloud and the moodiness of Tejada, he reminds me of Gary Sheffield. I don’t think that the Yankees would want to deal with those things all over again.
I find it humorous that Kennedy is mentioned in the same breath as a Hughes or Chamberlain.
I agree NYPD113th. If Miguel Cabrera can be had with Kennedy in the deal I think that would be a steal.
NYPD113th
November 8th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
I find it humorous that Kennedy is mentioned in the same breath as a Hughes or Chamberlain.
Humorous? Really?
Do you know what kind of pitcher he is?
A – Tampa 6 wins 1 loss 1.29ERA 72Ks 1BB
AA – Trenton 5 wins 1 loss 2.59ERA 57Ks 2BB
AAA – Scranton 1 win 1 loss 1.89ERA 34Ks 0BB
Agreed. Kennedy is a nice pitcher, but not in the class with Hughes and Joba.
Tejada is really interesting. He’s proven to be durable. Puts up strong offensive numbers and has the arm to move to third. I’d put him only behind Cabrera and Atkins for 3b rumored to be on the block.
Much rather him then Crede.
He may well be better than Hughes but it’s too soon to get real definitive in our opinions of Pinstripe Diaper Nursery School Class of ’07.
Jeff Karstens and Kei Igawa had good numbers in Scranton. Doesnt have power stuff.
“Humorous? Really?
Do you know what kind of pitcher he is?”
Well I’m just going by the opinions of minor league and major league scouts. All of them whom say that they see him as a nice #3.
The kid has great command, but if you are telling me that he has the stuff to be a #1 or #2, maybe you should take off the pinstriped glasses.
Kasper,
Minor league stats aren’t everything. Plenty of guys with less than MLB stuff post fantastic numbers in the minors getting by just like Kennedy has, with command and deception. I think he can be a solid 3 starter, but he doesn’t have the top of the rotation potential that Chamberlain and Hughes have.
I think a #3 starter is being generous. I’m fearful of guys that dont have strikeout ability.
I think we should try to keep Tabata and Jackson if possible. Call me crazy, but I’d rather trade Melky than either one of those guys. A guy like Melky could be easily replaced, Jackson and Tabata are talents that are not easy to find.
Pete, some of the threads are missing the links to the before and after threads.
Power isn’t everything. Look at Farnsworth. To have developed ‘command and deception’ at Kennedy’s age is unusual. But I still maintain we haven’t seen enough innings pitched by any of these Baby Bombers to project reliably what they’ll do even next year, let alone in an MLB career.
“If you can get Haren for Hughes or Kennedy, you do it. He’s an Ace, he knows the AL and he’s young and he’s a horse who would lead the rotation quite well. That’s the type of move this team should be making.”
Yes. The team should be making moves that are mindblowingly in their own favor, deals that would only happen if the opposing GM was on drugs.
Hughes/Joba is a STARTING POINT in a deal for Haren. Haren is incredible, young and generally durable. Let’s draw a comparison to the Beckett deal, who was a similar kind of guy. In order to get the price DOWN to Hanley Ramirez (top prospect), Alvarez (good MLB-ready pitching prospect), and two other good A-ball guys, the Sox had to agree to take Lowell’s whole contract. Worked out well for them, but the odds of that were low.
To get the deal down to Hughes, Clippard, Whelan and Claggett, we’d have to take on like…Bobby Crosby, or maybe Chavez (neither of whom is likely to rebound from injury).
“A guy like Melky could be easily replaced, Jackson and Tabata are talents that are not easy to find.”
Which is EXACTLY why Melky has little value in trading for guys like Miguel Cabrera and Johan Santana.
Wait, so Pete gets to go to a dinner where there’s Mo, Po and the Boss?
Dang, Pete, I want your job =P
“I’m fearful of guys that dont have strikeout ability.”
Yeah, the 10+ K/9 he posted in A and AA is pretty pathetic. Granted, he was down to almost 8.84 K/9 in AAA. Just horrible.
Major Leagues 1 win 0 loss 1.89ERA 15Ks 1BB
^I know small sample size, and I may be too in love with the guy. But he has done this in more than just the minor leagues.
I hear the Farnsworth analogy, but few pitcher get by with the Maddux and Moose make up. Plus with Brackman and some other quality arms in the mix, it might make sense to trade high on one of these pitchers stock. If anyone, I hope its Kennedy because I think the other two will be special.
The perceived trade value of Melky Cabrera by some also boggles my mind.
Pete,
Please be Andy’s bodyguard and keep Torre away from him. I trust Andy, but sometimes temptation is just too strong to resist.
Kasper,
He was very good in college, too. I think they call it “pitchability”?
Minor league # dont excite me and I live in Scranton so I’ve seen all three in person. I’m going by what I’ve seen in the majors – unless I should be impressed at when someone can get Crash Davis out.
“Which is EXACTLY why Melky has little value in trading for guys like Miguel Cabrera and Johan Santana.”
But he’s a very good supplementary piece. Just because he’s not a 5-tool superstar doesn’t mean he’s not an attractive player. He’s shown the ability to hit around .300 for extended portions of the season with regular playing time. He’s tired in september two years in a row, sure, but he’s only 23. Get him on a better conditioning program, and he’ll probably be OK. He had a .360 OBP his first season, so he’s shown some plate discipline. He has a cannon, decent range, and should develop a bit of power.
He’s WAY better than anyone the Marlins were running out there for CF last year. Is he a future perennial all-star? No. But I think he’s as a solid major leaguer who is currently young and cheap.
And I’m fearful of guys that make statements like this without any reason or basis whatsoever.
Kennedy has a K/9 of 9.96 in the minors, and a K/BB of 3.16. If that’s not strikeout ability, I have no idea what is.
Try looking up the stats once in a while before making idiotic statements such as these.
The previous comment is for the poster named “john” who claims that Kennedy had no strikeout ability.
I’m also not knocking Kennedy, in fact the opposite. I realize you have to give quality to get it. I just think he’s the less of their best three.
Carson,
I think he had a brainfart and meant to type “Wang”.
I don’t know, Kennedy pitched awfully well in his short time in the Bronx.
Just because he doesn’t throw 95 doesn’t mean he can’t be a very good pitcher.
Not everybody has Joba Chamberlain stuff. Its called “pitching” and not “throwing” for a reason.
If I was the GM, I’d have to be really bowled over before I deal Ian Kennedy in any package.
Johan Santana? That bowls me over. Miguel Tejada? Doesn’t bowl me over.
Just teasing, John. Some of us really like Kennedy.
We just want Smolt/Maddux/Glavine redux.
Before you question whether I look at numbers. I also watched Edwir strike out the side in Scranton, his minor leauge numbers are crazy. Sometimes it doesn’t translate. Read how scouts view Kennedy. Doesnt possess swing and miss stuff. Dont believe me, check for yourself and see if I’m “idiotic”
I also wouldnt trade Kennedy for Tejada, but I would for Cabrera.
“Some” scouts say he doesn’t possess swing and miss stuff.
Most every scout says he can be a very successful ML pitcher.
Lots of successful ML pitchers don’t possess swing and miss stuff. Including some in the Hall of Fame.
You have 3 young pitchers, Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy, all under the age of 24, under your control.
I’d be very leery of dealing them because you could weaken yourself significantly in some areas in an attempt to strengthen yourself in others.
His stuff is good enough to be successful, very successful, at every level he has pitched. Its certainly good enough to be successful with the Yankees.
I’m in the Do Not Like Tejada camp. If he was willing to play 3B he would already be an Angel.
Kennedy for Haren would be great, but, the A’s will want too much more. Chavez is not for me. We lean too much to the Left already.
Let’s see how well Jackson and Tabata play at Trenton next year before “dumping” Melky.
“I also wouldnt trade Kennedy for Tejada, but I would for Cabrera.”
How generous, I’m sure florida would be thrilled.
So you know how the Braves always won in the 90s with Glavine, Maddox and Smoltzie?
Well, Phil, Joba and Ian could do similar–Phil as Maddox, Joba as Smoltz, and Ian as Glavine.
The similarities are uncanny.
The point isn’t that Kennedy is a bad pitcher, it’s that he has far less trade value than Hughes or Chamberlain because of his upside.
A deal to land a Haren, a Santana, or a Cabrera starts with Joba or Hughes and may ALSO include Kennedy. The way the average Yankee fan either overestimates their teams’ prospects or the intelligence of other GM’s is a joke.
“So you know how the Braves always won in the 90s with Glavine, Maddox and Smoltzie?
Well, Phil, Joba and Ian could do similar–Phil as Maddox, Joba as Smoltz, and Ian as Glavine.
The similarities are uncanny.”
……..or they could be Isringhausen, Pulsipher, and Wilson. Or maybe they can’t because they’re Yankees, right Rebecca?
Sure, anything’s possible, but I like to look on the bright side.
If you want to guage the Marlins GM how about this: He’s looking to trade Cabrera and their AAA 3Bman, Scott Seabol,
made two recent lists: AAA All Star/Minor League Free Agents. No wonder Girardi had a problem!!
“but I like to look on the bright side.”
Hence your id
Yep. As has been since my September Optimism campaign.
MAN F— TEJADA !!!
Actually, you can look at Rebecca as the mother ship of optimism or the motherlode of optimism.
here is something interesting just on SI.com. Joe Torre is writing a memoir. I guess I can add Tom Verducci (whom I think is a great writer) to the list of people I will not take seriously when he writes about the Yankees and the Torre thing.
The book, currently untitled, will be co-authored by Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci and will include Torre’s memories of the Yankees, with whom he won four World Series championships, and general thoughts on the game.
here is a link to the whole story
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
I ain’t no mothership =P
But Optimist Prime just has this great ring to it, dunnit?
No thanks on tejada. He has run out of HGH and so has his power. Not even a good defensive shortstop. I would rather get Boone back than te-nada.
I would do Hughes for Haren in a heartbeat.
I am also in the keep Kennedy club. He showed me that he can pitch in the majors. To be compared to a young Moose is good enough for me.
I think folks are way too negative on Tejada. Yes, I’d like to see the impact of the Mitchell report, and no, I wouldn’t give up one of our three key young pitchers for him, but if we can get him for a reasonable price to play 3rd for a couple years, he might be the best option. Even with the numbers he put up last year, he is still way better than most options, and we’d still have a great offense.
I like Kennedy a lot too. Might not end up being Roger Clemens, but to have a homegrown Moose through his prime would be very valuable.
boone over tejada? really? you should never post again.
I don’t see the Phil Hughes to Greg Maddux comparason at all. I may be wrong, but doesn’t Phil crank it up to a much higher velocity than Maddox did in his prime?
I think the similarities being ‘uncanny’ is a result of the yanks having three young pitchers similar to the braves. Smoltz to Joba, okay i sort of see it. Glavine and Kennedy, well, ones a lefty, ones not, to me, Kennedy is more of your Maddox, isn’t he?
I still can’t believe that the Atlanta trio are still pitching…and winning.
Brian–I’m not familiar enough with Braves’ pitching, so you’re probably right…I was just kind of using how the Braves beat a team for a decade around those three guys
Glavine and Maddox are still pitching, winning…well, the W’s are becoming fewer and more far between. Props to them though on 3 incredible careers.
Gotcha Rebecca. In that sense, that’s totally a fair comparason. I guess I read too deeply into that.
Eleven current free agents are named in the Mitchell Report according to the Boston Globe. Their agents have been notified.
Now, things get interesting. We will see just how much teams care about this stuff.
Do they shy away from guys who are named in the Report? Or, is it full steam ahead to improve their teams?
Since the Report may not be released until Late-December, the Hot Stove League may extend longer than any other non-strike year in history.
Going to be a very, very interesting winter for MLB.
“I ain’t no mothership.” LOL – great line Rebecca.
you definitely are a great influence on these blogs keeping the blue funk out of the air, though. Good on ya.
Anybody else get the feeling Cash totally has somebody in mind for 3B by his comments, or am I just reading into that too much?
_bring back Andy P!_ – http://www.clubbronx.com/viewtopic.php?t=192
Long time reader, first time writer
I just heard that Santana was just offered a contract extension from the Twins and he rejected the offer. As a result, I’m guessing he is going to go on the block. What do you think it would take to get Santana after what just happened?
I would say…. Kennedy, Horne, and Cabrera
Ah, SJ — is it too much to dream that A-Rod would be on that list?
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN:
I am now taking bets on the eleven players to-be-named in the upcoming Mitchell Report.
I am ALSO taking bets on when those names will be leaked.
(I’d wager we’ll know ‘em all before Thanksgiving)
“Eleven current free agents are named in the Mitchell Report according to the Boston Globe. Their agents have been notified.”
i heard this. it’s going to be crazy.
and those are just the free agents. there are about 140 FA’s.
does this mean 8% of the league will be named?
some players will probably be retired already i’d imagine.
Wolf,
I don’t know if he has one guy in mind but, he is smart to wait and see what happens with Lowell and the Red Sox.
If they don’t reach agreement, that’s the easiest way to go to get a third baseman because you don’t give up any players in return.
If he isn’t available, then you sit back and wait for the marketplace to take shape.
Mike Lowell is a helluva player. He doesn’t have to hit like Arod to get the job done for the next 2-3 years for the Yankees.
20 HR, 80-90 RBI, .280+ average are numbers that can certainly be attained if he was in NY. Couple that with his great defensive play and the fact he has done very well in post-season play, and he is the logical guy to get if available.
Money, the Yankees have. If they have to overpay for a year to a couple of players, not an entire roster but a few players, its worth it.
It saves them from dealing their younger players and, who knows, perhaps opens up some opportunities (Dan Johnson?) at first base.
SJ–
Ok there agents have been notified but unless the report comes out pretty darn soon or the names leak the GM’sand owners wont know the names.
Pete, given Cashman’s comments, how far in advance of the end of the season did the Yanks begin to evaluate the available 3rd basemen and then prioritize who they wanted?
“Ah, SJ — is it too much to dream that A-Rod would be on that list?”
really, i know yankee fans are mad at the guy, but would you REALLY want this?
it’s bad for baseball.
not that the report won’t be bad enough.
SJ44,
Totally agree with you about Lowell, spray charts be damned. You adjust to the park you play in.
If he can’t come to terms with Boston, odds are he’ll land in the Bronx. Didn’t someone on Girardi’s new staff used to work with Lowell in the minors?
Boone has a better glove and cost us nothing. No I really dont want Boone back. My point is with his power outage and his suspect defense might as well go get an average player.If I say, just stick with Betimet instead of Tejada can I come out of restriction?
Wouldn’t shock me if Tejada was on it. I never bought the B-12 shots excuse he had in the Palmiero incident.
Couldn’t even venture a guess on other guys. I suspect there will be some guys on the list that will surprise people.
Not so much in terms of big names but, in terms of skills/body types.
There will be guys on the list that will cause fans to say, “He doesn’t look like he is on steroids”. Such as Alex Sanchez and Gulliermo Mota for example.
Horne, Kennedy and Cabrera are not enough for Santana. If Hughes or Chamberlain and Jackson or Tabata aren’t on the list, forget about getting Santana.
The Twins will get better offers from other teams than Horne, Kennedy and Cabrera for Santana.
Not only will the ethics of the teams be revealed, but how about those of the agents? How can they deal in good faith without disclosing the fact their their client is in the report? Will it be an asked and answered deal?
Baseball is horrible at keeping secrets. If the agents know, the owners will know.
Its why there is so much distrust between players and owners. Nobody keeps their mouths shut when stuff like this comes up in the game.
Rebecca,
I know their not free agents but Bobby Crosby,Chavez and Rolin would be my picks. Bodies Breaking down.
mel: HUGE ethical question, which is why I will be watching this with interest.
Rebecca,
Here’s another ethics question. If Peter Gammons gets the names who will he leak? lol.
It may not actually be much of an ethical question — if like Byrd and Williams, the players claim they were using HGH for medical reasons, then the agents should actually not disclose (of course, that may be crap, but that it gives a cover). Of course, steroids would likely be a different story.
Can I throw Nomar into the mix?
I hope he leaks ‘em all. I want to know my pinstripe boys are clean!
What are the official ramifications of inclusion in the Mitchell Report, if any at all?
Does anyone know?
Most likely, the Mitchell Report will be a load of BS.
How has everyone overlooked the fact George Mitchell is part of the Red Sox organization.
How many Red Sox players who are implicated will be very telling.
“While as a corporate policy we never reveal the advances we pay authors, I can say there are no incentive clauses in the contract,” William Thomas, editor-in-chief of the Doubleday Broadway Publishing Group, said in a statement about the Torre book deal.
In order for the players to have to receive a medical waiver from MLB for using HGH.
In Bryd’s case, he said he had permission. Somebody leaked to Ken Rosenthal he did not. However, in the past week, there have been reports that Byrd did indeed have a medical waiver from MLB for HGH.
Perhaps that explains why the Indians picked up his option.
DHC: LMAO
George Mitchell is on the Sox? Will be very telling to see how many Yankees are implicated…hopefully none…
“I’m not going to tell you right now who I’m going to wind up with,†Cashman said about third base. “But I’m hopeful at some point that I can bring some clarity to that and do something that makes a lot of sense. But that’s going to take a lot of time to materialize.â€
As usual, cashman talks a whole lot and says absolutely nothing. Its so useless I dunno why u bother posting this stuff pete. Wow cashman doesnt know who will wind up with? I cant beleiev eventually he will clarify this? When like when they sign the guy. Our GM wants to do something that makes sense? That goes against his usual approach of making absolutely no sense like sheff to the tigers for Humberto sanchez and Igawa for 40 million. No sense like those deals.
Getting Dan Haren would be nice- i would def trade Hughes for Haren straight up. He is probably in the top three best pitchers in all of baseball.
Cash will do the right thing and not trade for the sake of making a trade.
So if Bonds name is on this report, can we finally remove his record from the books. If not, what will it take?
I don’t imagine Theo saying goodbye to Lowell. And I didn’t get the impression Lowell is in any haste to leave, my guess other 3Boptions will have to be flushed out;
Two proposals:
1. Brandon Inge(DET) for Farnsworth & Sardinha.
2. Garret Atkins(COL) for Horne, Marquez, Betemit.
All you folks downgrading Kennedy don’t have a clue. Look at all those sexy arms the Yankees have in the bull who can’t throw strikes or get people out. How much good does being able to throw hard do them? Give me a guy like Kennedy who has great command, is a bulldog & tenacious & knows how to pitch any day of the week. He will probably give you 7 innings for many, many, years, keep you easily in the game, & not blow out his arm, and can be effective without his sharpest stuff with his command.
No way should the Yankees give up a bunch of young pitching talent for ANY star starter. Our track record with signing big name “Aces” is pathetic. Give me 2 or 3 younger solid #
2s,3, any day of the week. We’ve got a solid enough starting rotation. We need to spend A-Rod $ on the BULLPEN. Girardi will get those baserunners in.
“Eleven current free agents are named in the Mitchell Report according to the Boston Globe. Their agents have been notified.â€
me thinks a couple of big name pitchers are on that list.
Kennedy reminds me of Hudson when on the A’s. He has been under the radar all year,I say he has the better year of the 3. Im taking the underdog. Place your bets!!
On Michael Kay: Santana turned extension offer down.
I agree….Chavez,Crosby,Giambi,Tejada,Bonds,Palmeiro will probably be on that list.
Wish or Wish Not List
Mike Lowell—Wish Not
Joe Crede—Wish Not
Dontrelle Willis—Wish Not
Miguel Cabrera—-Wish
F.Cordero—Wish
J.Posada—Wish
J.Molina—Wish
Juan Rivera—Wish
Luis Vizcaino—Wish
M.Rivera—Wish
A.Pettitte—Wish
K.Millwood—Wish
Inge cant hit. Yes on Atkins,giving up a little too much for him though.
I recently attended a baseball roundtable discussion at Williams College. The principal speakers were Fay Vincent and Bob Costas. It was an absolutely compelling 90 minutes. Both men are eloquent speakers and possess an encyclopedic knowledge of baseball.
Even though Costas was the first to bring up the subject of steroids on national television in 1995,Costas admitted his fondness for Mark McGuire and his family may have silenced his reporting on the home run chase in ’98.
Fay Vincent says that he believes about 50% of the members of the players union could be named in the Mitchell Report. He said that we shouldnt be surprised if three to four hundred players were named.
you don’t trade Hughes for Haren. People are downgrading Hughes cause he got hurt and didn’t pitch enough to get his stuff back in `07, but in `06 as a 19 and 20 year old he terrorized AA. He’s gonna be an ace.
Out of the 11 free agents who may be on the list, how many will use the excuse, “I didn’t know what I was taking?” Just about everyone who gets caught uses that one or “a doctor prescribed it to me.”
Utility Man,
Add Griffey to that list. Too many injuries. Oh and I forgot to add Pavano. Now we know how he pulled that but cheek.
Hughes, Kennedy, Joba all keepers. Trading them away is lunacy. Trade Karstens, Igawa. Have some of you lost your minds?
..Inge cant hit. Yes on Atkins,giving up a little too much for him though..
Inge is a stop gap option, doesn’t get hurt, has some pop, plays solid 3B and won’t have to give up the farm for him.
If anything, my proposal was too little for Atkins, and I would be surprised if Colorado bit on it. The only potential star value I’m giving up is Horne, for a proven performer, Atkins. Betemit and Marques are expendable.
Phil, I’ll be thrilled if you’re right and Hughes turns out to be an ace — but a lot of youngsters have ‘terrorized’ in the minors and never had much of a career in the majors, let alone become an ace. Odds are stiff.
Would you be surprised if Rocket and Andy were on the Mitchell Report??
LathamJoe: If Andy was in the report it’d be horrible.
The Yankees would be insane if they traded AJAX. The guy has the makings of top of the line center fielder. I’d trade Tabata before I traded Jackson(though I’d prefer the Yanks trade neither).
I’ll be glad to see it come out no matter who is on it. The more complete the initial list, the better — no use letting out a few names and then living with another couple of years of whispers and leaks as the other three hundred gradually come out.
Maybe this will change the hypocrisy that has smothered our favorite sport for so long.
Welcome to the real world. Highly competitive people will do anything to win. In all sorts of fields.
For fans the game is a dream world, an idealized entertainment. For players, it’s a tenuously held job, one that is always both part time and temporary, where the next kid is always ready to knock you out of your place.
Nobody cares about the Mitchell report, especially the GMs.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....;fext=.jsp
DHC,
Well put.
I agree also—-dontfirecash—–You keep AJAX and unload Tabata if you have to.
AJAX has shown some great skills in his short time in Trenton.
And You trade none of the 3 for anyone other then Santana,which would be Kennedy.But only for him.Of course other players would have to go along with Kennedy,but I keep Hughes,and NEVER EVER trade Joba!!!He is da man!
Don’t click on Bobcat’s 6:21 p.m. link.
Thanks, my laptop needed a good system restore anyway.
AJAX hasn’t played in AA, he was called up during the playoffs but it was only for a few at bats. hes a great prospect yes, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here, he has only played in A+, AA is where you septerate the men from the boys.
Question: If you could trade Joba and get Kazmir, Santana, Bedard and Haren, would you do it
(Note: This is not serious, at all!)
mel: That linked worked fine for me :-S
“I agree also—-dontfirecash—–You keep AJAX and unload Tabata if you have to.”
::jaw drops::
Ok, you guys have no idea what you’re talking about. Tabata is a better prospect than Jackson. Jackson’s fast, and therefore fun to watch. Tabata had a wrist injury all season. Jackson projects as Mike Cameron, Tabata projects as a perennial all-star.
Um if he got a few at bats in AA during the playoffs,then he played AA ball.I saw him in September,at Riverfront Park,got a few autographs,and saw him throw out two runners from CF.Go back and re-read my post….I was choosing AJAX over Tabata!!
Yankees must have saw something that they liked to put him with the THUNDER during their Championship Playoff run.
Maybe we should trade for Marlins’ AAA 3bman. Is he better than Wilson?
Tabata still batted over 300 with the injury. I look for a breakout year from him, as he comes in healthy.
he also played for scranton too, I’m just saying who knows how good he really will be since he has played the majority of his pro career in A ball, lets see how he looks after a full year in AA. Unless Tabata is effected heavily by the injury (which he shouldn’t because it wasn’t major surgery) i still think he is considered a better prospect. which isn’t a knock on AJAX
Rebecca
I would not trade Joba for Santana….Id do it with Kennedy and two others.
If I cant get Santana for that….then Kennedy goes nowheres.
Tabata and AJAX are still unproven…my post stated that I was choosing AJAX over Tabata..thats all.So you choose Tabata…..great!
Rebecca,
Then it’s just me. I clicked on it expecting the article, but all kind of pops informing me that I needed to cleanse my computer immediately!!!
DHC
start naming ones who did what Hughes did to the Eastern League and weren’t successful. There are tons of generalizations that get made about minor leaguers to rationalize trade ideas. Fortunately, the Yanks are much better these days at self-scouting.
They only thing that scares me about Joba is that he had arm problems before we drafted him. Does anyone remeber what that was?
whoever you choose, tabata or AJAX, i think you’ll be satisfied with both of them ’cause us yankee fans should be in for a real treat with those two
That’s why you keep both. You don’t want to give away the wrong one.
Remember two yrs ago when the Yankees said they were going to start the next season with Bubba Crosby as their CF?They then went out and signed Johnny Damon….I think the same thing is happening now when Betemit is mentioned as next seasons 3B.I thought he looked shaky defensively at 3B,but cant certainly hit lefthanded.
You mean if a current Yankee player’s name comes up, such as Andy Pettitte, it’s not going to be big news???
I couldnt disagree more. And if Fay Vincent is right that 5 or 10 players on every team could be implicated the news will be huge. Vincent thinks that the commisioner’s office wants to put an end to the Steroid Era and it operating under the creedo “Sunlight is the best antiseptic”.
If you listened to Hanks comment about not trading young pitchers for anyone,and you want to acquire a young 3B like Cabrera,then you will probably have to part with a position player in the minors that might be appealing.That might have to be Tabata,because he is the more talked about prospect next to the pitchers (Marquez,Horne,McCallister,Jones,Smith,The big 3)
I meant to type…Betemit CAN HIT Lefthanded very well.
Just because a pitcher doesn’t have blazing strikeout stuff is not an indication of what he is as a (pitcher). Case in point, Greg Maddux among many others.
Ian Kennedy gets hitters out regardless and that counts most. A No. 3 or 4 starter that wins consistently is just as valuable as a so-called No. 1 starter.
Whoever takes the ball on the day of the scheduled game is in reality, the No. 1 starter.
Until the prices go down as far as trading for a third baseman, I’d like to make a firm stance and endorse Wilson Betemit for third base.
WB for 3B!
Let’s get past the idea that the Yankees need to replace A-Rod’s production at 3B. It’s not happening. They are going in a different direction, trying to keep the other team from scoring, rather than out-scoring them.
A “perspective” stat:
No other AL 3B had HALF the number of HR A-Rod had in 2007.
Only four MLB 3B had as many as HALF the HR A-Rod had in 2007.
Only 11 MLB 3B had HALF the RBI A-Rod had in 2007.
Cabrera, Tejada, it doesn’t matter. You could play two guys there and not replace his numbers.
I’d be happy with a team-oriented, defensive-minded 3B who can fit in and do his job and keep the drama to a minimum. Betemit would be fine, Loretta would be fine.
“If you listened to Hanks comment about not trading young pitchers for anyone,and you want to acquire a young 3B like Cabrera,then you will probably have to part with a position player in the minors that might be appealing.That might have to be Tabata,because he is the more talked about prospect next to the pitchers ”
I think this greatly overrates Tabata’s trade value. He’s got a high ceiling but he’s far from major league ready. When teams trade superstars, they want major league ready top prospects back not projects with high ceilings. Tabata could be part of a package for Cabrera but he couldn’t be the major piece. If its not one of the top 3 pitchers (and in my mind, even IK probably couldn’t be the main part), I think they’d have to put Cano in the deal. I’m not endorsing that, just saying I think the yankees would get outbid if either Cano or Hughes or Joba aren’t included.
For comparison purposes, Florida is asking for Jacoby Ellsbury and either Buckholtz or Lester from Boston as the start of a package. I don’t think Boston would do that either but that’s what it would take. Cabrera is a superstar. Teams don’t give away superstars.
Let me get on the Betemit Bandwagon – I remember Brosius:)
Yes! Ok that makes 2 of us on the wagon!
Come on folks!
New Slogan:
Save the rookies! WB for 3B!
i can’t wait until every realizes Ellbsury is entirely over rated, everyone will see this next year. hes just a little bit better brett gardner. look at his minor league numbers, they are good, but not fantastic.
Dude, you guys all know that Yankee playoff heroes names always involve Bs, right?
Babe Ruth
Bucky Dent
Aaron Boone
Scott Brosius.
So why Torre didn’t play Wilson Betemit in the bug game, I’m not quite sure I want to know
Oh, can’t believe I missed
Yogi Berra!
I wouldn’t give up the farm for Cabrera. The Yankees should give Andruw Jones a 1 yr $22 million contract. Trade Damon and prospect for Yunsel Escobar. Sign JD Closser and Kerry Wood. Re-sign Posada and Rivera.
Fear not Rebecca!
There is still time for Betemit to come through!
like I said
LEAVE TABATA & JACKSON ALONE !!
Billy Martin.
Brian Doyle.
Isn’t anyone the least bit curious as to why the BOSTON Globe was able to state that 11 current FA’s are on the Mitchell list?
There are ties that he has to Boston. If Mitchell gave the report to Theo that could give an edge in negotiations.
The list should be released ASAP. End the drama. If this reporter from Boston knows names, then it should be out for all to know.
Okay, MASTER LIST:
Babe Ruth
Bucky Dent
Scott Brosius
Aaron Boone
Yogi Berra
Billy Martin
Brian Doyle
Who else am I missing? I mean, these are the Bronx Bombers!
I find it interesting the the soxs seem to be shying away from Lowell all of a sudden. I heard they don’t want to give him 3 years.
rebecca they used to make a 1918 shirt with all the “B” names, i have it. it was pritty pritty good shirt up until 2004
Betemit is a career .260 hitter..
Brosius was a career .257 hitter..
I’m just saying is all.
From John Heyman:
Santana May Hit Trading Block
(Thursday November 8, 2007 7:07PM)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Jennifer: Maybe Mitchell’s related?
Jus’ sayin’…
Rebecca- Thats what i’m thinking. They seemed hot to sign him just days ago. Now the years are an issue.
Rebecca – Mitchell’s a part of that organization… why would they begin negotiations and then stop if mitchell knew the whole time Lowell was a part of the investigation
Bernie Williams –
But, what explains Derek Jeter? Reggie Jackson? Catfish Hunter? Craig Nettles? Goose Gossage? Mariano Rivera?
Anybody want to place bets that not one Red Sox (sock?) will be named?
I wonder if anybody would even bring it up.
Don Larsen? Whitey Ford?
Dman, I’m sure Mitchell’s been very protective of his organization… obviously he gives advice on who to sign…
Paul O’Neil???
Rachel–Your guess is as good as mine.
Doreen–Yeah, there can be others as well, but every team’s got at least one B guy on it!
Why else did we lose in 2004?
Doreen,
That’s because the magic letter is “e”.
Phil, I’m not downgrading the kid or hoping he’ll get traded away, just not as optimistic as you, either about what I saw from Hughes this year or about the predictive value of minor league stats on major league careers. But I meant it when I said I hope you’re right about him, and if the day comes when he does prove to be an ace I’ll be glad to admit I got it wrong.
Hughes will be fine.. Remember, who replaced Roger in Game 4 and threw 4 plus scoreless innings?? That’s right Phil. He showed me alot in that game and situation. Damn Pessimests!!
The doctor excuse will come up, and it’s COMICAL. Let me give you guys some insight. I am a physician. I have a very busy Internal Medicine Practice and teach Internal Medicine for a very reputible east coast university. I have worked with some of the top endocrinologists in the country on a regular basis, and have literally treated thousands of patients over the years. In that time, I have never prescibed HGH or anabolic steroids, not once! Don’t be fooled. These are not substances commonly prescibed. It is EXTREMELY RARE!!
If you’re right saying that that Fay Vincent figures 5-10 guys on each team would be implicated that’s a little more than what I was figuring. I would expect up to 5 on every team. If there was hard evidence from about 10 years ago maybe there would be more.