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For now, it sounds like Pettitte is done

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 10, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

In retrospect, I buried the lead in my story about the Safe At Home Gala.

Joe Torre thinks Andy Pettitte will retire and he said it with some conviction. “He was so good last year. But, again, it took a long tome for him to decide on playing. Just knowing Andy, money isn’t an issue for him,” Torre said. “He’s not closing any doors, but he’s leaning toward staying home. He’s a devoted family man.”

Understand this: Torre knows Pettitte better than anybody in the Yankees organization now. Pettitte has described Torre as a second father and given how tight Pettitte is with his actual dad, that says a lot.

Pettitte needed to be convinced to play last season. It took a bunch of calls and $16 million. Now Torre won’t be making those calls, Joe Girardi will be.

Pettitte likes Girardi. They were teammates and are friends. But enough to leave home for another nine months?

The Yankees won’t have his old buddy Roger Clemens next season. That’s another factor. If Jorge Posada jumps to the Mets, that would almost seal it. Pettitte won’t be coming back to flip fastballs to somebody he doesn’t know.

The one thing the Yankees have going for them (well, beyond $16 million) is that Pettitte was very healthy last season. His troublesome elbow gave him no trouble. It’s hard for athletes to walk away when they can still play at a high level.

The Yankees will have to be creative here. Pettitte won’t want the official Roger Clemens K-Boys Family Plan and all the ruckus that stirs. But he will want the ability to come and go when he wants within reason.

Pettitte is a good guy. But nobody in that clubhouse gets more upset when the team loses. He was furious at one point in the spring when he felt the effort wasn’t there. He isn’t going to come back to play for a contender. He wants to play for a champion.

Are the Yankees championship-caliber today? Probably not. They could be a few weeks, but they aren’t today.

Pettitte won’t make the Yankees wait and leave them hanging. He will make a decision by the end of December. That’s good for the Yankees. As Brian Cashman said a few days ago and Torre confirmed last night, if Pettitte had to decide now, he would be done.

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208 Responses to “For now, it sounds like Pettitte is done”

  1. CHRIS November 10th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Phew. I was hoping you would say this because everytime you have come out with one thing (Arod would stay, Torre will be back) the opposite happens.

    Welcome back Andy!

  2. murphydog November 10th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    Pete, I think you’re right. Torre’s signals were clear. We are in denial about Andy. Would even getting Santana or Cabrera be enough to convince Andy to return? Unknown.

  3. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    Hate to see you go Andy… But now, back to business. Go get Johna, give em Kennedy, Karstens, Humberto Sanchez and Melky, the sign Torii.

    They need a veteran presence in the lineup, and Wang nor Moose will provide it.

    Wang is still a baby and Moose thinks about one thing and one thing only…Moose. Slefish bastard, just ask Michael Kay…

  4. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    Sorry, tyrngi ot tye w/ broken hand!

  5. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Pete anyword on what Newsday reported? That Jorge, wife, agents had lunch with Cash yesterday?

  6. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 2:09 pm

    Shamus that is an idiotic statement and untrue. Mike works alot with the young pitchers. I’ve also met him on a number of occations and he is always very nice.

  7. Mitchell's Eleven November 10th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

    I could live with the above deal posted by Shamus, and think it would be enough. I don’t trade Joba or Hughes for anyone on this earth, though.

    I would be curious to see how Brett Gardner would do in the big leagues at this point, though. I’m still more than prepared to go into battle for the next ten years with Melky in center so, if he can match his production and abilities, I’d rather go with youth and build a solid core over another high-priced mercenary.

  8. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Kay hates Mike because he blew him off when he wanted to interview him the day after he lost his perfect game. Who can blame Mike, you were one stike away from a perfect game, and now some idiot wants to talk to you about it.

  9. -------- November 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Shamus that is an idiotic statement and untrue. Mike works alot with the young pitchers. I’ve also met him on a number of occations and he is always very nice.

    Not as idiotic as thinking Michael Kay has any veracity, and certainly less idiotic than Minnesota would be to take that trade.

  10. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    I think there’s a real good chance that Andy’s name is on that free agent steroid list.

    If so, I really doubt he wants to go through a whole season answering questions about that subject.

  11. MC Hammer/Sinead O'Connor Wrestlng Match November 10th, 2007 at 2:19 pm

    Santana is a chronic elbow injury waiting to happen—pass!

    Yankees have to sit pat and wait a few years to contend again. No other way about it. You’ve got bloat in the lineup (Damon, Matsui, Giambi) and not enough experience or stability with pitching (Hughes is overrated, Joba is unknown beyond his “Joba Rules perfromances, Kennedy seems like a poor man’s Mussina-in-his-prime, and Wang has been figured out).

    Give the trade proposals a rest. It won’t, ad should not, happen.

    Be patient, wait it out, rebuild like other teams do and in 2012, in Jeter’s farewell season, you may see a trophy being raised at THE NEW YANKEE STADIUM!!!

  12. Doreen November 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Jennifer –

    I was just about to type the same thing about Mussina working with the young pitchers. I seem to recall reading specifically about him helping Guidry with Wang.

    I don’t understand how people can form such hateful opinions of someone they’ve never met or spoken to. I don’t know what they could possibly be based on. I’m not saying every Yankee is an angel or a saint, nor am I saying I like everyone on the Yankees. But I wouldn’t make character judgments based on a few pre- or post-game soundbites.

  13. Agent47 November 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    NYPD113th, Just like Curt Schilling or Josh beckett can be in list. Assumptions mean nothing.

  14. cc November 10th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    Pete, don’t you believe that Pettitte’s “man of honor,” “family man” stance is simply a credible, therefore effective way to renegotiate for more money next year? One could easily interpret his decision to go to the Astros, then to come back to the Yankees, in those terms.

  15. ted November 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    Who cares what J. Torre says. He is NOT a Yankee anymore.
    Therefore it is reasonable to assume, that he may not have the best interests of the Yankees at heart. He is the manager of another baseball team, keep that in mind

  16. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    It will be very, very hard for Andy Pettitte to choose retirement for next season. Yes, he’s a strong family man, but he has also been a star baseball player for roughly two-thirds of his life…and he’s still a very successful one, being paid in the top ten of his profession. More importantly, it appears that he’s coming off a season where he was healthy.
    Yes, he misses his family, but at Age 35 you have to consider carefully that you’ll have many years left to spend quality time with the wife and kids – but precious few years to pursue your lifelong dream of being a MLB player.

    Should his name appear in the late December Mitchell Report
    my guess is that he’ll retire. Should it not appear, he’ll be convinced to return for one more season.

  17. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    “NYPD113th, Just like Curt Schilling or Josh beckett can be in list. Assumptions mean nothing.”

    Actually no, you are wrong agent.

    Schilling and Beckett would be in the same group as, say, a Jeter or Rivera. Zero speculation about these four being involved and only the fact that they are major league basbeall players are they possible suspects.

    However, Pettitte is more of in a group with Clemens or Tejada. Players that have been implicated on numerous occassions to be linked to performance enhancing drugs.

  18. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    Really because people thought it was his name blacked out? Meanwhile everyone forgets that a day or two later it came out that he WAS NOT on the report. Forget that huh?

  19. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 2:35 pm

    NYPD113th:
    Granted, there has been speculation about Andy Pettitte’s name appearing on the Mitchell Reort.
    And how ’bout the equally strong speculation for: Manny? Big Papi? Timlin? Lowell? Lugo?

  20. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    We should just ignore him, he is just trying to cause trouble.

  21. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    “However, Pettitte is more of in a group with Clemens or Tejada.”
    …and one-time “Face of the Boston Red Sox” – Nomah Garciaparra!

  22. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    “Manny? Big Papi? Timlin? Lowell? Lugo?”

    Boy, you guys sure do take this persoanlly huh? LOL

    All I was saying is that the possibility of Andy’s name being on the list may be affecting hias decision. You get all offended and start mentioning Red Sox.

    Manny, Papy, and Timlin? No, I havn’t heard them mentioned.

    Lowell and Lugo, yes, I hear they may have used them as memebers of former teams.

    I do not see how this effects the Andy Pettitte discussion though.

  23. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    “However, Pettitte is more of in a group with Clemens or Tejada.”
    …and one-time “Face of the Boston Red Sox” – Nomah Garciaparra!

    Yes, that’s a better example.

  24. CaptainsCorner November 10th, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    If Pettitte retires then the Yanks are in alot of trouble next year. Wang, 50 year old Moose and 3 kids who cant even pitch the whole season. Too bad there isnt 1 good free agent pitcher that they can go after. Who knows if Santana will be available. Obviously they would go hard after him if he is. The best thing about Pay-Rod not coming back is now the Yanks without a doubt have all of that money and more to throw at Santana. If they trade for him or when he is a free agent next year. My offer would be Kennedy, Melky and a middle prospect(not Tabata). I understand he is a great pitcher but you can not put all your eggs in one basket and trade all of them for him. My untouchables would be Hughes, Joba, Horne and Tabata. I would rather keep those then trade for him, no matter what.

  25. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    Not personal, at all. My own opinion is that the Mitchell Report may involve so many names that the whole report will prove to be inconsequential both to the Fans and MLB Front Office staff.
    The exceptions will be people like Barry Bonds, who fans cannot accept/admire (because of his brutal personality) and others who may threaten to break some of MLB’s hallowed records.

  26. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    Agreed Latham.

    Again, all I said is that it may be affecting Andy’s decision, that’s all I said.

  27. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Agreed. I said the same thing in my earlier Post.

  28. Jay November 10th, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    I always laugh when people say players aren’t going to come back because of who the manager or catcher is. They may prefer those guys over someone else, but they are not going to let a teammate or manager decide their future. Anyone who says this has never competed at a high level. You play because it’s a high you can’t get anywhere else — going out there and facing the best. Pettitte knows what a privilege it is to go out there and play baseball. To perform in front of a huge crowd and ride the wave of their adulation. You’re not getting that anywhere else, and if Pettitte comes back it will be because he wants to continue to compete — not because of who his manager or catcher is.

    Do you think Roger Clemens kept coming back because he liked his teammates? With him, it was money first, but also to compete.

    Pettitte is a different breed; he obviously doesn’t use money to make his decisions.

    The idea that Pettitte was going to retire last year is flat-out wrong. He was going back to the Astros before they ticked him off by trying to trade for Jon Garland. The only reason he ended up on the Yanks was because the Astros insulted him. Torre had nothing to do with it.

  29. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    Did I just read Kennedy, KARSTENS(HA!), Sanchez and Melky for Johan?????????

    Are you crazy or just stupid?

    get real please

  30. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    The reason we get such a clear picture on this blog of what’s happening with the team is because we have a number of psychics who read the minds of key personnel.

  31. Trish November 10th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    Money never has been nor do I expect it ever will be an issue for the NY Yankees. That being said, other teams also have more money to spend than they ever did. MLB had $6 BILLION dollars in revenue for 2007. 30 clubs, do the math.

    Being a realistic Yankee fan (I know that’s an oxymoron) the Yankees are not going to be able to outbid other clubs the same way they have in the past. Being able to sign FA agents is harder now than it probably has ever been. 5 or 6 years ago, players wanted to come to the Yanks because they knew the payday would be there and they offered the best chance to win. I think some of that luster has faded in recent years. Yanks need to work smarter now than they ever have had to in recent memory.

  32. Write this on your forehead..., November 10th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    Pettitte follows Torre to LA.

  33. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    I agree Jay…..Barry Bonds is the classic example!

  34. AJ November 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Pete I have to disagree with this statement. ” Pettitte won’t be coming back to flip fastballs to somebody he doesn’t know”.

    Correct me if I am wrong but in the dynasty years wasn’t it Pettitte who refused to have Posada as his catcher?

  35. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    “Did I just read Kennedy, KARSTENS(HA!), Sanchez and Melky for Johan?????????

    Are you crazy or just stupid?

    get real please”

    Nud, LOL.

    With too many Yankee fans, they act as if other teams exist to aid the Yankees.

    If you think you can acquire Santana without giving up AT LEAST on of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy + another top prospect…….you aren’t a real baseball fan.

  36. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    Pettitte never refused to have Jorge as his catcher. Where did you get that from?

  37. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    I think the Twins would insist on Joba or Hughes, I don’t think Kennedy would get it done…then you need to expand the deal to Horne, Melky and possibly Gardner or Tabata with either Joba or Hughes

    I have a feeling Hughes will be dealt this offseason

  38. AJ November 10th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    Nud-

    Pettitte threw to Giradi. He frequently did not use Posada for some reason or another.

  39. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    Slow down, slow down. I’m just stating that I’ve read and heard that Mike Mussina is very truculent and aloof, both in the clubhouse and witht he media.

    Jesus, don’t kill the messenger…

  40. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    Gerardi wasnt even on the team after 1999…..Girardi and Jorge used to basically split time back in 98/99….The pitcher who threw to Girardi the most often was Cone.

  41. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    Michael Kay did an interview with Mike Mussina back in 2001 when he joined teh Yankees. According to Kay, Moose kept looking at his watch, rolling his eyes, and generally acted like Kay was pulling teeth when it was supposed to be a ‘welcome to the yankees, what is your favorite type of ice cream’ type interview.

    Reportedly, at the end of the interview, Kay thanked Mussina, and then informed him he was one of the rudest, most selfish people he had ever met, and that even if he threw a perfect game, Kay said he would never sit down with Moose again.

    Three weeks later, if it wasn’t for Carl Everett’s bloop single to right center field, with two outs in the bottom of the ninth at Fenway Park, it would be interesting to see if Michael Kay would have stuck to his guns.

    This is all in ‘Tale of Two Cities’ by John Harper and Tony “I’d like to punch in the neck’ Massarotti.

    So know your history before you throw ‘idiot’ around. Stay in your lane!

  42. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Hey Shamus I called you an idiot because of your stupid tread proposal not because of some gossip about the phony Michael Kay. Who cares what Kay thinks, he is the bigeest phony in the business these days. Who cares if Moose is a prick or if he is a great guy (everyone knows he is very prickly) all I care about are W’s and L’s

  43. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    “all I care about are W’s and L’s”

    Which is a reason to dislike him ;)

  44. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    So if Ian Kennedy (blue chip), Melky Cabrera (established MLB starting OF) and mid level picthing prospects Jeff Karstens and Humberto Sanchez is a bad deal for Minn for Johan, then whats fair?

    Adding Dellin Betances, Sheeley Duncan or Brett Gardner to the deal? I think Cashman has enough rated prospects to get the deal for Johan done without having to give up Hughes or Chamberlain…

    Throw out some ideas…

    How about Ian Kennedy, Shelley Duncan, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Karstens and choice of Brett Gardner/ Jose Tabata?

  45. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    If all you care about is Ws and Ls, what has the Moose done for you since, oh, June of 2006?

    He is washed up…

  46. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    Oh what the heck… Its November- this is the time for silly trade proposals… I mean tread proposals….

  47. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    Did I just read Kennedy, KARSTENS(HA!), Sanchez and Melky for Johan?????????
    Are you crazy or just stupid?

    get real please”

    Did I read somewhere that:

    Frank Robinson was traded to the O’s for Milt Pappas, Jack Baldschun and Dick Simpson???

    Lou Brock was traded to St Louis for Ernie Broglio??

    John Smoltz was traded to Atlanta for Doyle Alexander??

    Varitek and Lowe were traded to Boston for Heathcliff Slocum?

    Liriano, Nathan, and Bonser were traded to Minnesota for AJ Pierzsinki??

    As crazy as it may seem, “Never say never”, my friend!
    Strange things happen when MLB owners are as cheap as the Twins braintrust.!

  48. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    NYPD113,

    And too many Red Sox fans think their team wrote the book on how to put together a winning team.

    The truth is, it wasn’t until the new ownership took over and basically cloned the Yankees business model that the Red Sox even became competitive with the Yankees.

  49. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    If you think that jeff Karstens is anything but a throw in then you are crazy…It would have to start with Hughes, Melky, Horne/Betances, Tabata….something like that…I think the Yanks could build a package around Kennedy for Miguel Cabrera but not for Johan….Kennedy is a bit overrated by Yankee fans in terms of what he can bring back in a trade…He only made 3 starts…as for Moose I think the Yanks got a great return on their original 6 yr 88 mil back in 01-Moose was very good for the Yanks for most of those 6 yrs-Last year he was terrible and I doubt they are expecting much from him in 08….he will be on the Phils if Pettitte doesnt hang them up

  50. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    They can make the trade without having to use Joba or Philly.

    If you don’t realize how stacked the Yankees farm system has become in the last three seasons, you my friend, don’t know baseball.

    The $man has loaded the farm… Jose Tabata, Austin Jackson, Brett Gardner, Humberto Sanchez, Ian Kenedy, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horse… and on and on The same system Melky, Cano and Wang just came from…. And they are doing alright…

    Cano is prob the top three 2B in AL, Wnag has more wins in last two seasons than any other pitcher, and the Melk Man is a beast in the field, great leather and speed, just needs a little work, both at plate and in field on fly routes and cutoffs. But he can gun people down.

    Su yes, they can make this trade without giving up Hughes or Joba, and I’d also add Cano and Wang to that list.

    But, sadly, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Melky included.

    But I can see a deal of Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Humberto Sanchez and Melky Cabrera, maybe with Brett Gardner thrown in, thats 5 for 1, with 3 being top tier.

    whaddya think?

  51. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Latham Joe

    all those past(lopsided)trades you just posted were made before the players were established….JOHAN IS BY FAR THE BEST PITCHER IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW!!!

  52. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Shamus:
    Dellin Betances is a 19-year old flamethower who touches 98 mph. He pitched at Rookie “A” for Staten Island in 2007.
    He’s raw and its too early to predict his future, but I’m betting he’s pretty close to “untouchable” as compared to any player in the Yankees’ MiLB organization.

  53. -------- November 10th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    “Michael Kay did an interview with Mike Mussina back in 2001 when he joined teh Yankees. According to Kay, Moose kept looking at his watch, rolling his eyes, and generally acted like Kay was pulling teeth when it was supposed to be a ‘welcome to the yankees, what is your favorite type of ice cream’ type interview.”

    Any person with any brains in their head would likely do the same if interviewed by Michael Kay.

  54. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    “Ian Kennedy (blue chip)”

    He’s not a blue chip prospect. He is a second tier prospect. He gets lumped in with Hughes and Joba by fans and media because they made their MLB beduts in 2007

    That’d be like me saying Lester is a blue chip peospect, he’s not.

  55. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Shamus that is a better (more realistic) proposal but there are a lot of teams with deep farm system…The Yanks have rebuilt the farm but a lot of teams (Angels/Dodgers etc.) have very good prospects 2….It all depends on what team is willing to go that extra mile (include the better player) to get a deal done

  56. -------- November 10th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    “They can make the trade without having to use Joba or Philly.”

    Only if the Minnesota GM is (a) on drugs, (b) in debt to the mafia, or (c) has some large amount of coin being sent to his Swiss bank account.

  57. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Nud:
    Frank Robinson, NL perennial All-Star and MVP WAS NOT AN ESTABLISHED STAR????

  58. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Nud, i agree with you for the most part. Karstens, like Sanchez, would be the throw-ins in a package based around two near-MLB-ready pitchers in Kennedey and Horne, plus an MLB ready position player in Melky, and they will have a need in CF with Torii gone, and then another position player prospect throw in, ie Duncan, Gardner, Tabata.

    I think they should pass on Miggy Cabrera. He would cost too much for an out of shape player with injury written all over him. Even if they did move him to 1B DH in a few years I dunno. I don’t feel him, OR Scott Rolen at 3B. Too many prospects for Cabrera and too many years left on Rolen’s deal, in 3 @ $36M…

    I read on Feinsand’s blog he thinks the Yankees could get Tejada (2 years left at $26) on the cheap, for a Gardner/Sanchez/and are you ready– FARNSWORTH trade!!!!Whaddya think of that ?????

  59. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    “They can make the trade without having to use Joba or Philly.”

    If that’s true, they why do you think another team (LA Angels, LA Dodgers, etc) won’t make a better offer? They have as good if not a better farm system than NY.

    Again, this is the Yankee fan thinking that Minnesota is going to give up the best pitcher in baseball without getting back the Yankees best. Silly.

  60. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Can we agree an offer of Kennedy, Horne, Sanchez, Melky and Garnder/Duncan would be a competitive offer to the Twins?

  61. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    “Can we agree an offer of Kennedy, Horne, Sanchez, Melky and Garnder/Duncan would be a competitive offer to the Twins?”

    No, because the names Joba or Hughes aren’t included.

  62. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    I would definitely be for a Tejada trade but with Angelos I worry about getting a deal done. Tejada would be solid for the Yanks, He’d hit 20-25 HR’s but more important is the fact that he is a professional hitter who rarely k’s and will hit in a big spot…I think he could play 3rd and would provide stabilty to the Yanks lineup….I do think Miggy Cabrera is an absolute beast and would def give up Ian and Melky for him but I think the MArlins may get better offers. Andy’s potential retirement is throwing a monkey wrench into the Yanks plans I bet…

  63. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Really care to look at his numbers?
    http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....nedy.shtml

    He went quickly thru the system, yet he is a second tier prospect. Alrightly than.

  64. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    I think that is a fair offer Shamus but I could see other teams maybe doing better…You know the Twins are gonna ask for the moon as they should…..every team is gonna want that Beckett/Hanley type deal now….High talent for all star type players…

  65. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    “He went quickly thru the system, yet he is a second tier prospect. Alrightly than.”

    Many pitchers accrue excellent minor league stats. Their ceiling is determined by their stuff.

    While you’re doin research sweety, find me a single scout that says Kennedy is a top of the rotation starter?

  66. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    I’m not your sweetie. And learn to spell.

  67. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    NYPD113th,

    Why are you referring to Jennifer as sweety?

    It certainly does not strengthen your effort to appear to make sense.

  68. randy l. November 10th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    “The truth is, it wasn’t until the new ownership took over and basically cloned the Yankees business model that the Red Sox even became competitive with the Yankees.”
    and that business model is predicated on having a billionaire owner. henry isn’t even close to being a billionaire anymore after the hits to his hedge fund business. no more 53 million posting fees coming from him in the near future.

  69. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    NYPD113 is a troll. I’ve been as guily as anyone, but we shouldn’t give him the courtesy of a response.

  70. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Many pitchers accrue excellent minor league stats. Their ceiling is determined by their stuff.

    While you’re doin research ma’am, find me a single scout that says Kennedy is a top of the rotation starter?

  71. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    “NYPD113 is a troll. I’ve been as guily as anyone, but we shouldn’t give him the courtesy of a response.”

    There ya go Drive.

    Save some face from your juvenile arguments and play it safe this way.

  72. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    What do you guys think about Melvin Mora as less expensive option at 3rd base? He’s expressed a desire to leave Baltimore. The Yanks may be able to get him and not give up their best prospects. I think Mora may just need a change of scenery to be the player everyone hoped he’d be.

  73. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Drive isn’t that the truth.

  74. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

    A Melky + Kennedy deal on paper is better than the Sanchez/Ramirez deal offered to the Marlins.

    Kennedy > Sanchez
    Melky (proven, young major league outfielder…something the twins need) > Ramirez (at the time)

  75. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    They were like ranked 45th and 80th or something after the trade. Yankees could put a better offer down that doesnt include Joba/Hughes

  76. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 4:06 pm

    “Melvin Mora”

    He will be 36 in February, has trouble staying healthy, and his numbers have been in a steady decline.

    His best days are well behind him.

  77. Miggy November 10th, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    NYPD113th , I would like to take umbrage and go to war with you, but you actually make alot of sense.
    My 2 cents

  78. raymagnetic November 10th, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    I think there’s a real good chance that Andy’s name is on that free agent steroid list.

    Oh knowledgeable one, ye of great wisdom, please tell me what the powerball numbers will be as well while your looking into the future, great diety.

    I find it hilarious when guys like this come on a Yankee blog to offer their thoughts on what the Yankees should do to improve themselves.

    Is the Sons of Sam Horn website not operating today?

  79. NYPD113th November 10th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    Looking back at my first post, I think I was wrong. I think I was too strong in my opinion of Pettitte and ‘roids. I think “real good chance” was poor wording.

    I do think there’s a chance he’s on it, but “real good”, I stand corrected.

  80. Master Wangkee November 10th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    I would trade for Garland and dump as much payroll as possible to secure Johan Santana via free agency afer 2008.

    2008:

    Wang
    Hughes
    Garland
    Chamberlain
    Kennedy

    2009:

    Santana
    Wang
    Hughes
    Garland
    Kennedy

    *Joba in the bullpen

  81. Simpleton November 10th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Hi Everybody,

    Do you like the Yankees? Well, heck, I like the Yankees too! Great meet you all.

    How about that good ‘ol game of baseball? Just can’t get enough of it.

    Well, it’s great meet you all. I’ll be back again sometime. Keep that good ol’ baseball feeling going all through the winter. Oil up that glove, brush your teeth and eat plenty of fiber.

    Mmmmmm….baseball.

    GO Yankees!

    Your Friend,

    Jo Jo

  82. new direction November 10th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    The Yanks should do the following in this order:

    Trade Hughes, Sanchez, and Cabrera to Minnesota for Johann Santana and extend Santana for at least 6 years @ $20M/yr. = $120M. Whatever it takes, just no Kennedy in the deal also or forget it. Chamberlain is untouchable. Perhaps this triggers Pettitte to make a decision sooner and lemme tell ya, a Santana/ Wang/ Pettitte/ Chamberlain (L/ R/ L/ R) front four in the postseason is a near lock for the Yanks 27th World Series champion ship. I could see Pettitte expediting his decision process once the Yanks land Santana.

    Sign Mike Cameron to a one-year $7M (what he made this year)
    contract. He’d probably jump at the chance to play in N.Y. again. He turns 35 years old 1/8/08 so no two-year deal for him.

    If Mo doesn’t accept 3 years and $40M, sign Fransicso Cordero to be the closer for 4 years @ $12M/yr. = $48M.

    Trade Farnsworth and Brett Gardner to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada who becomes the 3B. The Yanks take on $20.25M more in salary but so what when A-Rod’s $90+M is cleared and Farnsworth is gone?

    Sign Ramon Castro for 2 years @ $2.55M (3X his 2007 salary) = $5.1M (6X his 2007 salary).

    With Santana, Cameron, Cordero, Tejada, and Castro in the fold, the Yanks have leverage over Posada to offer him a very fair 3 years @ $13M/yr. = $39M. If he rejects it, wish him the best of luck and sign Paul LoDuca for 2 years @ $6M/yr. = $12M. He and Castro would cost $8.55M combined,
    $3.45M less than Posada, in 2008, ditto in 2009.

    Here you go:

    ROTATION:

    Santana/Wang/Pettite/Chamberlain/Mussina
    or Santana/Wang/Chamberlain/Mussina/Kennedy

    EVERYDAY LINEUP:

    Damon/Jeter/Abreu/Tejada/Matsui/Cameron/Cano/Giambi/LoDuca
    or Damon/Jeter/Abreu/Tejada/Matsui/Posada/Cano/Giambi/Cameron

    BENCH: Castro, Mientkiewicz re-signed, Betemit, Duncan

    BULLPEN: Mo or Cordero, Vizcaino re-signed, Ohlendorf,
    Karstens, new righty & 2 new lefties t.b.d.
    (any ideas?)

  83. Nud November 10th, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    are you kidding me…Hanley Ramirez was always a big time prospect but nobody knew he would come this quick…His value at that time exceeds melky’s current value by a lot. Melky right now is an avg AL outfielder. He can play D but is light in the bat

  84. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    All the Yanks really need is a Charlie Hayes/Scott Brosius type of 3rd baseman for a season or 2. Bradley Suttle is struggling in the Hawaiian League right now but most scouts are still high on him. At one point last year Suttle had a 34 game hit streak.

  85. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 10th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    So, uh, that didn’t go well.

  86. CYF November 10th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Does anyone know if Johan even wants to pitch in NY, and would he be willing to sign an acceptable extension? Anyone know if he’s made any comments on this?

  87. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Rebecca how was your test?

  88. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    I would think that the Yankees would ask for a window before they complete a trade. They won’t trade away prospects only to have Johan leave after the season is over.

  89. J-Dawg November 10th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    CYF- I haven’t heard anything about Santana’s outlook on New York. Ron Gardenhire did say that Santana seemed to like the atmosphere during the series against the Yankees in July.

    Rebecca- How did it go?

  90. raymagnetic November 10th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    I do think there’s a chance he’s on it, but “real good”, I stand corrected.

    There’s a CHANCE EVERY player in MLB is on the list. So what exactly are you saying? Maybe you should leave the soothsayering to Miss Cleo?

    Oh and by the way, defensively and offensively Robinson Cano is a better player than Pedroia. Look at their fielding metrics here: http://tinyurl.com/yozvfx

    and their numbers here:

    Robinson Cano – http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/canoro01.shtml

    Dustin Pedroia – http://www.baseball-reference......du01.shtml

    Then try to tell me that Cano is not a better player than Pedroia.

  91. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    Want to talk about one of the worst trades?
    July 2, 1995: Signed by the Houston Astros as an amateur free agent.

    December 13, 1999: Drafted by the Florida Marlins from the Houston Astros in the 1999 rule 5 draft.

    December 13, 1999: Traded by the Florida Marlins with cash to the Minnesota Twins for Jared Camp (minors).

    This is Johans transactions.

  92. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 10th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    That wooshing sound you here?

    That’s the toilet, and my future’s in it :(

  93. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    “No, because the names Joba or Hughes aren’t included.”

    Pardon me, NYPD13, but what makes you think that you have more insight into the Twins’ Front Office than any other poster on this Blog? Yes, there are MLB Organizations that have as good or more attractive prospects to offer for Santana, but who can predict that they would be willing to deal? Santana’s prospective annual salary and contract length will preclude many Teams from even considering him.

    I also find it amusing that some of you refer to Humberto Sanchez as a “throw in” or “2nd tier prospect”. Sanchez, before his elbow surgery (which his now fairly routine among pitching prospects) was the 70th best prospect in MLB and somwhere between 3rd – 5th in the Yankee MiLB Organization.

  94. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    Test was more difficult than you thought it would be?

  95. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    Rebecca

    Sorry to hear your test didnt go well:(

  96. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 10th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    Math was the disaster I thought it would be, but the verbal…I’m beyond disappointed in myself.

  97. Tommy November 10th, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Can’t define your future by a few hours in a classroom.
    Keep your head up!

  98. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    30th…http://www.baseballamerica.com.....p100c.html

  99. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    Sorry to hear that. Keep your head up. Maybe you are wrong about how you did.

  100. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    jennifer,

    Wow are you ever right! I just looked up Camp’s stats. He never pitched in the majors and has a 24-34 4.41 minor league career record. His last season was ’06 when he was 0-2 with a 10.13 ERA!

  101. LathamJoe November 10th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

    Rebecca:
    The Ladder of Success is littered with people who have failed once, twice, even several times.

    Hang tough and be true to your Poster Nickname!

  102. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    Drive now imagine being the stros. You had the player taken away because of the rule V. and they trade the player the same day for someone who never saw the majors.

  103. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    Hobie,

    That’s quite an impressive ’06 list as it turns out.

  104. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    Rebecca, even if you did as badly as you think, you can re-take it. Even if you never do as well on it as you had hoped, your good grades and all the other stuff on your student resume will get you into an acceptable graduate program. And once you reach the next level, nothing you did on this level ever matters again. Ever.

  105. J-Dawg November 10th, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    Rebecca- I’m sorry about that. Just remain optimistic, everything will be all right!

    That Santana deal was a real stinker for the Astros. There have been some stinkers in the past. In ’87 the Cubs traded Dennis Eckersley to the A’s for three minor leaguers. None of the three ever made it to the majors.

  106. Ducky Bent November 10th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Hey, can’t we all relate to Roger’s boy Andy Pettitte? I mean don’t all of us – at the ripe old age of 35 – want to retire so we could be with our family and spend all our millions, including the 16 million dollars most of us made last year? All those grueling years of hard work and little pay! You have to feel for him.

    Let’s all extend our love, sympathies and deep concern for this “family man” “honorable Christian” (the heck with those stories that he cheated on his wife) and workout partner/curious buddy of Roger “The Hulk” Clemens!

  107. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    Ducky, take an aspirin, go to sleep, and post again in the morning when you’re feeling more centered.

  108. Ducky Bent November 10th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    Will do DHC. In the meantime, let’s spread more love and joy for Andy Boy, the pride of the pinstripes.

  109. ORORO November 10th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Ducky’s right……..Andy and his “family plan” is real believable…………….not!

  110. Wiggum Fan November 10th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    Rebecca – Don’t worry about the GRE. I bombed mine the first time. And then the second time. Then I found my second school choice didn’t require it. So I went there, obtained a Masters, got a better job and while at that job, parlayed my work experience and degree to get the Masters degree that I really wanted.

    Now, after all that, I don’t work in the field I thought I wanted and am still paying student loans 5 years later.

    Could be worse, you could be unhealthy like Pavano.

  111. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 10th, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    Wait–the Astros traded Santana?

    Ouch!

  112. -------- November 10th, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    Rebecca, Be an “Optimist Prime” about yourself. Be half as kind to yourself as you are to others. All will be ok.

  113. Jennifer congrats JOE G- Now bring Jorge back! November 10th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    I believe he was a rule V pick up. Marlins choose him and traded him.

  114. Doreen November 10th, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    Rebecca -

    I’m sorry you don’t think the test went well for you. Who knows, maybe you’re being hard on yourself? But, in any event, you can take it again, and once you get the grade you need, you never have to think about it again. (Hey, I know people who took the lsats about 6 times before passing – smart people – it happens!) Keep positive.

  115. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    Would like to know who has the crystal to able to predict how well Ian Kennedy will pitch in MLB? He is extremely bright, has excellent control, because he tops out at 92-93 MPH means nothing. Two names for you skeptics, Tommy John and Whitey Ford. To part with any of these kids in my opinion involves great risk. Do not underestimate Ian Kennedy.

  116. J-Dawg November 10th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    The trade didn’t look quite as bad for the first couple of years because the Twins tried Santana as a reliever and he was mediocre. He then had two pretty good years, was moved into the rotation full-time in 2004 and he became what you see today.

  117. DadinIowa November 10th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    Rebecca: You might be surprised how well you did.

    If you did blow it, then remember that successful people get off the deck after failing, and keep getting off the deck until they succeed.

    Besides, even the Babe “failed” more than 6 times out of ten. :)

    Hang in there. We will love you anyway.

  118. Nick November 10th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    It’s generally thought that a team is a refection of it’s manager. With all due respect to Torre and his accomplishments, Joe Girardi’s style of managing will see a more fundamentally sound team with more emphasis on doing the small things right.
    Had A-Rod stayed, he would have asked to do things to keep moving the runners over when the situation called for it rather than pad his stats and swing for the fences. Good teams know when to put a team away and Torre would relax many times and see a lead shrink. Girardi will not see any lead as safe.

  119. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    It’s Johan Santana….we lock him up we will arguably have the best rotation in baseball.

    Santana
    Wang
    Pettitte (please come back Andy)
    Chamberlain
    Kennedy/Hughes

    and Moose as a sixth starter.

    That’s soooooo solid. We trade Hughes (even though he’s my favorite) our future isn’t trashed. Hell, Betances destroys them all when we’re talking ’bout potential.

  120. Doreen November 10th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    Ducky Bent –

    I always tell my husband you have to take the money out of it. He has little sympathy for professional athletes, and to a point, I agree. They do get paid indecent sums of money to do the thing they like best. Sure, the career is short, but they’ve got all the time and money in the world to do whatever they want for the rest of their lives. A luxury most of us don’t have.

    But it is what it is, and I look at it as some kind of “other world” — it’s certainly no reality most of us will ever know. And within that context, Pettitte has a tough choice. Do I feel sorry for him? No way. But I do understand. And I’m betting there’s a lot of pressure coming from the home front. And you have no idea what Andy’s kids are like, what they need. Everyone’s situation is different.

    But he is lucky. He can even consider retiring at 35, 36 years old. On his terms. Nice country, MLB!

  121. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    I think most everyone here thinks Ian Kennedy will be a solid major league pitcher. But I do think he doesn’t think he will ever be a domimant, front of the rotation starter like Johan Santana or Josh Beckett. If the Yanks traded Kennedy as part of a Santana trade, it would probably like be trading a #3 starter (plus more players)for a #1 starter.

    Santana, Joba, Wang and Hughes would be as good as any rotation in baseball.

  122. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    One of my least favorite Yankee trades was Mike Lowell from the Yankees in 1999 to Florida for pitchers Ed Yarnell, Mark Johnson and Todd Noel. We did have Boggs from 1993-1998 and Scott Broscious in 1999, so he never really got his shot. I remember seeing him play for Oneonta in the NY-Penn league in 1995 and followed him from there.

  123. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 10th, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    Thanks guys and dudettes….

    but yeah, it’s not a conversation I look forward to having with my parents.

    On the bright side, if anyone needs a journalist intern medieval English history creative writer fry cook, I’m available :-D

  124. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    I honestly think a deal not involving Hughes can get done if we don’t mind getting REAMED in position players.

    As in 2-3 of the following…+ Kennedy:
    Melky, A-Jax, Tabata, Montero, Cervelli etc.

    1.)Twins need a CF: Melky would be huge for them.

    2.)They take pride in developing their young pitching talent (they are currently shopping Garza…a sign they aren’t worried about their rotation at the moment). A player of the magnitude of Hughes/Chamberlain will make anyone rethink their needs, but they would prefer positional talent.

    3.)A-Jax is going to put a good showing on the next list. Tabata was 18, played with an injured wrist that ended with surgery and still put up a +.300 BA. Montero – an 80 on the power scale.

  125. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    Next list being BA’s top prospects

  126. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    Doreen,

    Can you imagine being in a position like Andy or Scott Brosius and stop working at 35? I give them both credit. They’re both rock solid individuals that have their priorities straight.

    Brosius was ARod’s polar opposite, and not just in baseball talent.He made over $22mil in his career and decided he had enough money to take care of his family for at least a couple of generations. How refeshing is that?

  127. Bryant November 10th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    “Had A-Rod stayed, he would have asked to do things to keep moving the runners over when the situation called for it rather than pad his stats and swing for the fences.”

    Joe Girardi is not going to have a clean up hitter bunting.

  128. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    I don’t think Chamberlain is available simply because he can also close in the event of Mariano’s departure or if Mariano is injured in 2008 or beyond. I would guess Hughes or Kennedy would go before Joba in a trade just for that reason.

  129. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    refreshing even! lol I’m the worst typist ever lol

  130. Tommy November 10th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    That was me:

    I second your take on Kennedy.
    According to most he is no ace, yet reminds them of Mussina.
    WTF would be wrong with another Mussina?
    Who cares if Kay doesn’t like Mike.
    The guy is a borderline HOFer.

    Would it kill Torre to stop speaking like he is everyone’s father for just one minute?
    Just once I would like Joe to say something relevant about a MLB player.
    Everyone has a family and various levels of devotion to those they love.
    Only a tiny, no very tiny, percentage of those are MLB players, let alone damn good ones.

    How bout Joe saying something like ” Andy’s only 35 and has a chance to pitch 4 or 5 more years and possibly be considered for the Hall.”
    Of course Andy might not want that, but it is an entirely realistic scenario.

    One positive result of Andy’s retirement will to no longer hear Petite and Clemens constantly mentioned in the same sentence.

  131. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    Putting Joba as a closer is idiotic.

    WAAAAAAY more value in him being an ace than a closer. Even if Mo doesn’t come back…Joba NEEDS to be a starter.

    Ridiculous to think otherwise.

  132. Officer Toody November 10th, 2007 at 5:31 pm

    Where the heck is NYPD113?

    Was there a “drive-by” at the local Dunkin’ Donuts?

  133. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

    LOL Officer Toody,

    All I knw is we’re glad he’s gone!

  134. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 5:37 pm

    By the way Toody, where’s Muldoon???

  135. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    Hobie, I don’t think anyone argued for returning Joba to the pen, just said that because he has double the career potentials he would be more valuable and less likely to be traded than guys with just one possibility.

  136. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    Hobie, you can have great starting pitching and great middle relief and then lose the game because there is no one available to close out the game in the ninth.
    I prefer to see Joba as a starter, but honestly your comments are just ridiculous, if there is no one else available to close that’s is where he will be. Ever hear of Dave Raghetti? Or how about Dennis Eckersly? How about Jon Papelbon?

    “Putting Joba as a closer is idiotic.”

  137. Officer Toody November 10th, 2007 at 5:41 pm

    There’s a hold-up in the Bronx,

    Brooklyn’s broken out in fights.

    There’s a traffic jam in Harlem,

    That’s backed up to Jackson Heights.

    There’s a PRECINCT SHORT OF DONUTS,

    Khrushchev’s due at Idlewild…

    Car 54 where are you?

  138. longtime November 10th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    atta boy Thom, well said

  139. Drive 4-5 November 10th, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    Toody, I remember the show like it was yesterday. I hope youre not as old as me lol

  140. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    Gunther Toody

  141. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    I just question a rotation that has three inexpirenced guys who have never thrown 200 innings opf major league ball. Do you really think Wang, Moose, Joba, Hughes and Kennedy is what he is going to trot out there next year?

    Do you really think he’ll go all Jack McKeon and blow those young arms out? I say sit back and watch the master at work. $$$man will be wheelin and a dealin this winter.

    Just like Bubba was set to be our starting CF’er in 2006…lol. Damon a month later.

    And even if he has to include Hughes for Johan, at least we still keep Joba. More upside, I say. So a package of Hughes, Horne, and Melky (like Buster says, two top tier pitchers and one MLB ready position player will likely be the fee), then that leaves us all the more prospects (Humberto, Karstens, Clippard, Gardner, etc etc.) to go after our other holes, 3B, and did anyone forget about our bullpen, especially now that Joba is a starter, and MO may not come back?!?!?!??!?!

  142. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 10th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    Illinois is beating OSU

    I’ma go drown my sorrows in a cup of hot peppermint tea.

  143. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:54 pm

    I hate to break the news to you people, that is if Mo doesn’t return, Joba will close just as sure as god makes little green apples. Shocking news huh?

  144. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    Try Bigelow Rebecca, it’s always worked for Joe.

  145. Officer Toody November 10th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    Drive 4-5;
    Ehhh, I watched Johnny James Major League debut with the Yankees. remember him?

  146. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

    Thatwasme –

    You’re telling me Papelbon was more important to the sox this year than Beckett? Cleveland Indians did alright with a garbage closer.

    I’d rather have him dominate for 6-7 innings every 5 days than 1-2 innings every 2 days or so…

    From another forum:

    i can’t believe this is even a debate. A #1 is way more important than a closer.

    Question, how important was mariano in the Cleveland series?
    Question, how important was mariano in the Detriot Series?
    Question, how important was mariano in the Angels Series?

    the answer to all those questions is, Not very important. Without good sp, a closer is nothing. We will be going into the 9th inning without a lead if we continue having crappy Starting pitching.

    Question, How important was Carmona in the Cleveland Series? 9IP 1ER
    Question, How important was Kenny Rogers/Bonderman in the Detriot Series? 16IP 2ER
    Question, How important was Lackey in the Angels Series? 11IP 3ER

    —-

    Joba as closer = idiotic

  147. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:00 pm

    I saw James pitch, Moose Skowron won the game in the bottom of the ninth with an hr.

  148. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    Hobie, I am not in favor of it, but realize that it is what will happen if we lose Mo. Who will close? Viz? How about Farnsie? If you think that it’s difficult to find good starting pitching, tell me who the Yankees will get to replace Mariano? That’s why they need Mariano, because if they lose him, they lose Joba out of the rotation.

  149. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    hobie, Do you think the Yankees will trade for Santana and then have no lights out closer?

  150. Mike in SF November 10th, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    NYPD,

    You clearly have actual baseball knowledge, something that has almost entirely drained out of here about three weeks ago. I also trust you were a fan before the pink hats.

    What do you think about giving up Hughes to get Santana (permitting a window for an extension)? Hughes has much more to give as shown in his playoff performance. Yet, Santana and Wang can anchor the rotation while more draft picks are being developed. With Johan, Joba, and Wang in a playoff rotation, is that not worth giving up a young starter that may only turn out to be half of Johan’s caliber?

    Cheers.

  151. Tommy November 10th, 2007 at 6:09 pm

    The closer only becomes relevant if you have good starting pitching.

    Traditionally, most closers are failed sarters.
    This may be changing, as some players may be drafted with bullpen duties in mind.

    A few prominent closers were starters who switched mid career for various reasons.

    Also, the Save is probably the most overrated stat in Baseball.

    Joba must be given every opportunity to be a starter.

    I’ll be shocked if MO does not sign with the Yanks!

  152. Officer Toody November 10th, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    Ooo, Ooo, good try ThatWasMe. Moose did hit a homer in the 9th, but the Yanks were gettin blown out 8-1. Art Ditmar lost it 8-3.

  153. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    Who would we put in Joba’s rotation spot? Karstens, Rasner, DeSalvo, Wright? I’d bet that trial for rotation spot was responsible for more blown games this year than the amount of saves Mo recorded compared to the league averager closer.

    (We have enough talent in the minors to shortly produce a league average closer…or acquire in a trade for B prospects)

  154. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    I’ll be shocked if Mo doesn’t sign, but I won’t be shocked if he doesn’t that Chamberlain will be the closer. It’s just a fact, it’s not my idea, he’s too good in that role and they won’t find any FAs half as good.
    I think Joba will be great in the rotation, I can’t wait for 2008, but that being said, if Mo doesn’t sign, Joba will be the closer in 2008. I can’t believe no one here has considered what not signing Mo means.

  155. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    What is wrong with beat writers? This is the biggest non-story ever. Cashman said earlier this week that if Pettitte had to decide now, his decision would be to retire. But because Joe “Freakin’” Torre echoed that comment, it somehow becomes news.

    Newsflash: It’s NOT news. We know no more today than we did earlier in the week.

  156. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    We don’t NEED a dominant closer if we have a solid rotation…

    We got our asses handed to us by Borowski’s bunch…Tigers ’06 AL champs with Todd Jones…

    All I’m saying is that having a dominant closer should be an after thought to the starting rotation.

  157. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:17 pm

    Toody, the game I saw James pitched but I can’t remember if he had started it, I was very young, it was a Saturday game I went with my family. I think they had Billy Stafford in those days too. But Moose’s HR did win the game I saw.

  158. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:18 pm

    Hobie, yeah, we’re in trouble if Mo exits and Andy doesn’t return.

  159. Hobie November 10th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    “Hobie, yeah, we’re in trouble if Mo exits and Andy doesn’t return.”

    Agreed

  160. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    hobie, it’s not my idea (Joba-closer), if Mo signs elsewhere, don’t bet against it.

  161. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:22 pm

    It’s been a great run with Mariano, but it’s not going to last forever. That he has lasted this long is a miracle, he’s a freak no doubt. I think he wants to pitch in the new stadium.

  162. Tommy November 10th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

    If Mo doesn’t sign, the Yanks could be screwed, true.

    From The day of Joba’s call up onward, the Yanks basically had 2 closers. Joba was better than Mo down the stretch!
    We still lost, because our SP sucked!

    Also, I think Joba is probably more ready to pitch @150 innings every 5 days as a SP, than 70 innings on an irregular schedule as a Closer.

  163. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    AND, unless you have a rotation of starters who are all going to pitch 200 innings in one season and give you numerous complete games to boot, if you want to compete for a play-off spot you need a great closer.

  164. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

    You’re not going to get 200 innings out of Joba, Kennedy or Hughes in 2008. More like 185 tops.

  165. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    Joba and Hughes will be on innings count. Kennedy pitched enough innings this year to be ready for a full season next year. That adds to his value.

  166. Tommy November 10th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    You can compete for the Postseason without a closer in Mo’s league. Sure, you might not win the WS without one, but you can compete.
    We are in a situation never seen before. 12 straight seasons in the PS with the same closer. Well, Wetteland was actually the Closer in 96, but Mo was just as good.

    We can deal with the unknown when the time comes.
    Right now, sign Mo and ride him out. He is still one of the best.

  167. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

    toody, you have me looking for that gane I saw.

  168. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    Rivera will re-sign, but he is already declining. Giving him a three year contract, at least baseball-wise, is a big mistake.

    Humberto Sanchez will be at least the co-closer by 2009, if not sooner.

  169. Phil November 10th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    This makes me think Pettitte will be back.

  170. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    Maybe they need to sweeten the pot for Pettitte. They just gave Clemens 28 mil., maybe he just wants more. Start at 20 mil.

  171. ThatWasMe November 10th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    toody, July 2, 1960 vs Tigers. Whitey Ford vs Frank Lary, James got the win off the HR by Moose in the bottom of the ninth.

    http://www.baseball-reference......7020.shtml

  172. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    Mike in SF hit it on the head. Good call— As if its preordained all three of Hughes, Kennedy and Joba will be the next Clemens, Pedro and Maddux…

    Today, right now, from what I’ve seen, I like Joba’s stuff the most, so keep him. But if you can trade Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, along with Melky for Santana, do that shizzle!

    Then go get ROwand or Hunter for CF, any $$$ they want, just no longer than 4 years.

    Shamus

  173. Shamus November 10th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    But it in no guarantee all three or even one of these kids will work out. Never forget Darren Dreifort! So if a club that has the best pitcher in the world under the age of 29, and they’ll give him to you for two of your pitching PROSPECTS and a CF like Melky, take it and RUN!!!!

  174. Peter Abraham November 10th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    Whoa:

    Why so negative all the time? I realize this is difficult for you Torre Haters to understand but the players like the guy and often confide in him. The players and manager are together day and night for nearly nine months. Hence, Torre probably has a better sense for what Pettitte is thinking than Cashman would.

    Pettitte has said that Torre is like a second father to him, not Cashman.

    Had Torre said last night “Oh, Andy, he’ll be back” that would be news as well.

    If my blog sucks, don’t read it. Simple as that.

  175. Enoch November 10th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    Shamus – Hughes AND Kennedy w/Melky? Can’t do that.

  176. Vinny November 10th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    With the young starters going 185-200 innings, it becomes imperative to have reliable middle relief / bridge guys to the closer.
    Something the Yankees have lacked in recent years is a good long relief man in the event a starter has rough starts and early shower time.

  177. Phil November 10th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Shamus,

    that would be an epic blunder.

  178. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    Peter,

    I view it as realism not negativism. Torre has been canonized by a segment of the media and the fan base, which is fine. But I think it is incumbent on others to put forth a dose of countervailing facts to provide balance.

    As for the Pettitte situation, even granting that everything you said is true, it adds no new facts.

    Don’t get me wrong, as I have said before, you are the hardest working beat writer in NYC (and perhaps beyond), and your work product is appreciated. I also appreciate this forum which allows dissenting opinions.

  179. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    Shamus,

    That may be the worst trade proposal for the Yankees I have ever heard.

    Learn to enjoy watching prospects develop and flourish on your own team. It’s more fun than rooting for a team composed of stars from other organizations.

    That’s why I wouldn’t trade Hughes for Santana even up.

  180. dontfirecash November 10th, 2007 at 8:22 pm

    I would definitely trade Hughes for Santana straight up. Don’t get me wrong, I love Phil Hughes and I think he has a CHANCE to be a great pitcher. But young guys with tremendous stuff don’t always achieve greatness. Johan has achieved greatness, and he looks like he is primed to dominate for at least a few more years. That being said, if you can’t sign Santana to an extension, there is no way I make that deal.

  181. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 8:24 pm

    I would rather lose with Hughes than win with Santana, but I don’t think that will happen. I think Hughes will be at least as good as Santana within a year, and he will much cheaper.

  182. Travis B. November 10th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Hey Peter

    I like how you call people “Torre Haters”. So that makes you a Torre Lover then. Torre isn’t worth my hate -I think he’s a three-times fired, finished in baseball retread loser who lucked into getting the job as Yankees manager which any number of managers way more successful than him could’ve been, but if you want to keep kissing his ass, be my guest.

    Torre is tampering if he talked to Pettitte between the time he was hired by the Dodgers and Pettitte declined his option because he is someone from another team talking to a Yankee about his future plans. I bet Torre either fed into Pettitte leaning towards retirment or urging him to retire. B.t.w. why is Torre talking to and speculating on Yankee players when he left the team acrimoniously and he’s an employee of the L.A. Dodgers? The Yanks should look into the possibility he tampered with Pettitte.

    Tell you what newjack who just started covering the Yankees in October 2005 (you’re not even a Yankees fan) yet thinks he knows everything about the team: if you don’t like people challenging and criticizing you and your massive ego, you can always require everyone to register and kiss Torre’s ass, delete comments you don’t like and which don’t mirror your perception of things, and ban people like a child who whines about how it’s his ball. Get over yourself.

  183. dontfirecash November 10th, 2007 at 8:29 pm

    He has a chance to be as good as Santana. He also has a chance to be a tremendous flop or suffer a major injury. It is impossible to know what is going to happen.

  184. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    I think Santana is more likely to get injured as a result of age as well as wear and tear, and if he does, you are saddled with a monster contract. Not so with Hughes.

  185. dontfirecash November 10th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    I hope they keep Hughes as well. However, I’m glad I’m not Brian Cashman because I would have no idea what to regarding trading/keeping your bigtime prospects. There value may never be higher, yet if you trade them and they turn into stars you get ridiculed by everyone.

  186. dontfirecash November 10th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Their*

  187. Peter Abraham November 10th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    Travis:

    I remain amazed at how many bitter, ungrateful Yankee fans there are such as yourself. Torre’s leadership helped turn the team into the class of baseball after decades of them being mocked for the crazy moves of Steinbrenner and lack of success.

    As for me not being a fan of the team, why would you want a fan of the team covering the team? My job is to provide information to fans, not stand around cheering. That seems hard to grasp for certain people.

    Pettitte is a free agent, by the way, it’s hard to tamper with them. But don’t let your ignorance of baseball rules keep you from mindlessly ranting.

    I want the Yankees to be good because it’s better for me professionally to cover a good team. But it would be fitting in a way if they went 81-81 if only to prove to people like yourself that getting into the playoffs isn’t a brithright.

    But then you’ll just change the name you post under and complain about Girardi and wish for Torre to come back. A quick check of your IP address history reveals you’ve posted under several names.

    At least I post under my own name and take responsibility for what I write. You’re just a bitter fraud.

  188. Buddy Biancalana November 10th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    Hughes for Santana straight would never happen, Cashman wouldn’t even insult the Twins with that offer. Comparing Santana with Hughes is just plain nuts, that trade wouldn’t even be allowed in Fantasy Baseball.

  189. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    What’s nuts is failing to project what Hughes will be in a very short time and understanding how cost effective he will be.

  190. dontfirecash November 10th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    I agree it would definitely take more than just Phil to get Johan. You’d have to throw in at least another blue chipper(Tabata or Jackson) and probably another good pitching prospect not named Joba or Ian.

  191. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    It obviously would take more than Hughes, and that trade would weaken the Yankees beyond one year.

    Let Hughes, Jackson, Tabata remain Yankees. The time to trade prospects is when you have redundancy. For example, A-Jack could make Melky expendable.

    No one could make Hughes expendable.

  192. Hooog November 10th, 2007 at 9:06 pm

    Hey Pete, great work as always. I don’t always agree with what you say, but I always appreciate it.

    I wouldn’t want a rah rah guy reporting on the Yankees. I didn’t like the Torre hiring when it happened, but I realized midway thru 1996 that it was a good fit and it continued to be so. I also thought that after 2007 it was time for a change for all parties. Torre needed to do something different and the team needed a new direction. I thought Torre contributed nicely to this team during his run; much like Phil Jackson contributed to the Bulls during Jordan’s era.

    I remember the 80′s when BIG Stein was constantly tampering with the makeup of the team. While I admired his passion, I didn’t admire his tactics or results. I believe the Yankees may have won more games than any other team in the 80′s, but it amounted to squat as they always finished second or third and look where it led them in the early to mid 90′s. I would rather stumble for a couple years than deal away all the farm talent for washed up big leaguers. Of course, some of the names being mentioned (Santana) are worth trading young talent for if the trade is right and an extension can be reached.

    As for Torre talking to Petitte, who cares. It’s not tampering. If they spoke after Torre and the Yankees parted, he can do that since he is not with another team. Even if he talked to him after he was hired by the Didgers, he can do that since Andy is a FA and they do NOT talk money, which Torre has no control over anyway in LA.

    Keep up the great work and as always, thanks for the great blog.

  193. warm and fuzzy November 10th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    I’ll be glad when the trades are finally done. This blog and the speculation has gotten crazy.We use to have some of the smartest people in baseball on this blog.Now you are sounding stupid and desperate.Maybe it’s the effect Arods’ leaving has on a team. Once Cashman gets third base filled,level heads will prevail.Acording to baseball perspectives, teams do better when Arod leaves.He is known as the “Cooler” in baseball circles. He puts up incredible personal stats but doesn’t help any team in postseason,and he has never been to a World Series.Guys we know this,as jeter said the Yankees will win without Arod they did before.Look at Jeter’thinly veiled words on the previous thread,you can almost hear a sigh of relief,that the dark days are over.

    We greatly need a lefty like Andy.hope he returns to the Bronx.Cashman seems to have a plan for 3rd base,let him do his thing.I personally hope Matsui,Damon,and Jeter get their respective knees and calves healed by spring training.

    Feel very sorry for any owner that straps their team down with all the Arod song and dance hoopla!They may never recover from the experience.

  194. DHC November 10th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    This is easily the best Yankees blog in terms of reportorial content, frequent updates, and good blog management, and I thank Pete for that. Being a good reporter and being able to create and sustain a good blog are talents that are not always present in the same person so we are fortunate in that.

    Quality of the comments/discussions here is another matter and depends on the efforts, talents, knowledge and self-control of the contributors — therefore is not directly controllable by Pete. He can try to influence it but the efforts of knowledgable regulars are essential. Ignoring trolls, keeping the off-topic fluff at a low level, promoting civil exchange, and elevating the ‘baseball IQ’ level of discussion is up to them.

  195. dontfirecash November 10th, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    “We use to have some of the smartest people in baseball on this blog”

    When the hell was this? PeteAbe’s comment section has featured its fair share of lunatics for as long as I can remember.

  196. warm and fuzzy November 10th, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    The operative word was “some.”

  197. whoa November 10th, 2007 at 10:55 pm

    Let me get this straight: Someone thinks that subtracting Alex Rodriguez’s production from a team is beneficial and yet they
    complain that other people are stupid?

    The irony.

  198. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 10th, 2007 at 11:17 pm

    Let me get this straight: Someone thinks that subtracting Alex Rodriguez’s production from a team is beneficial and yet they
    complain that other people are stupid?

    The irony.

    NYC go figure

  199. In Joba We Trust November 10th, 2007 at 11:35 pm

    we gotta go out and get santana, sign mo and jorge to show andy were not messing around…a rotation of santana, wang, pettitte, hughes, joba (considering its IPK we gotta give up w/ other prospects for santana) would be a rotation only second to boston. girardi is money in 08

  200. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 12:11 am

    That rotation would be MUCH better than Boston’s.

  201. In Joba We Trust November 11th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    i mean they did just win a ws…beckett when he wants to be is one of the top 3 best pitchers in the AL…dice-k will be better than he was after a year in the states…schilling has a little left…and then bucholz and lester have comparable stuff to joba/hughes so its close. i do think we would have a slight edge but im considering a lot of “what ifs” were any of it to be true

  202. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    They won the WS because they didn’t have to face the Yankees. That is because the Yankees have played tight since the 2004 ALCS collapse, which has negatively impacted their offense. That can be seen in the decline in their postseason OBP from their regular season OBP from 2005-2007.

    The Yankees need to win a postseason series to exorcise the hangover. Torre has managed tight. That is an important reason why a new manager was needed.

    Beckett wasn’t particularly good in 2006. Perhaps he will regress in 2008. We don’t know that M’zaka will be better next season; the league may adjust to his motion and stuff. Schilling is in decline. I think Hughes and Joba are better than Bucholz and Lester.

  203. warm and fuzzy November 11th, 2007 at 5:31 am

    I don’t like the idea of any one player being the most important person on a team.If Arod was that important to the Yankees sucess as a team,maybe the yankees can pull together as a team as they always have, now that the distraction is gone. The team will survive without him.
    in 2001 the mariners improved when Arod left for texas,by winning 116 games. Teams do better when he’s not around.
    Arod taints the chemistry of any team he comes to,watch.
    The reason this is true ,is because it’s all about him,never the team he plays on.Boras drowns everybody in Arod stats,and you walk around in a stupor,saying how great Arod is,while never winning a WS,but watch him work on his personal record during the season ,and tank in postseason.

  204. warm and fuzzy November 11th, 2007 at 5:39 am

    Arod is gone yankees and fans need to move on.The fact that this blog’s posters think all is lost because Arod is gone,shows why the yankees need to have a different game plan for the future.Cashman will aquire a real taeam player,not a wanna be shining star, not a selfcentered head case!

  205. Enoch November 11th, 2007 at 9:36 am

    In Joba we Trust:

    I don’t look at the world through pinstirped colored glasses and try to remain objective, but Lester is not near the prospect the Joba/Hughes are. No at all.

  206. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 11:50 am

    “in 2001 the mariners improved when Arod left for texas,by winning 116 games. Teams do better when he’s not around.”

    i have a magic rock that keeps tigers away.

  207. warm and fuzzy November 11th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    Arod the albatross is finally gone,yeah! Yankees and their fans are free to move on.There is life without Arod.

  208. In Joba We Trust November 11th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    enoch- lester has a career record of 11-2 and a postseason win under his belt. he at least deserves some respect with those numbers. bucholz was just as high a top prospect as hughes in the minors and has outpitched roger clemens and dominated the orioles (although everyone killed the o’s this yr) on one night. he pitches in big spots and delivers. and to whoa saying the red sox won the world series because they didnt have to play the yankees proves your yankee bias. dice-k has got great stuff but struggled with control this season. you gotta give him time to adjust to american ball

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