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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Posada: “I want to stay with the Yankees”

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 11, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Jorge Posada is at the Knicks game tonight and Journal News Knicks beat writer Mike Dougherty was able to snag him for an intervew at halftime.

Here is what Mike just e-mailed me:

Update on his situation: “We’re working on it. We’re working with the Yankees. We’re going to hear from the Mets tomorrow. I have no idea. … I would like to stay with the Yankees. My heart is with the Yankees, so hopefully we can get something done.

Does he want to stay with Yankees? “That would be the first choice, yes.”

When do you want to get this done: “I don’t know yet.”

Are you going to listen to other teams: “Yes.”

Are you in the driver’s seat? “Yeah. Yeah. We’re really close. It’s not about the money. For me, it’s the best situation.”

On Joe Girardi: “I love Joe. You know, Joe’s like a big brother to me. He’s been a big brother to me since like ’96, so hopefully I’m hopefully looking forward to working with him.”

Are chances better than 50-50 you’ll be a Yankee? “Yes. Right now it’s up in the air, but the chances are good.”

Obviously, great job by Mike getting this info. It sounds like Posada and the Yankees could be close to a deal. Good news for the Yankees.

 
 

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334 Responses to “Posada: “I want to stay with the Yankees””

  1. Joe from Long Island November 11th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    The way I understand this, Jorge wants to stay with the Yankees, but if an overwhelming offer comes from another team, he is willing to be overwhelmed. What would qualify as overwhelming is something known only to Jorge and family.

  2. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

    Please be true!

  3. CaPo Dad November 11th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    Great news!! Now Yankees have one less person to worry about. I love to see Jorge back.

  4. Torre, Torre, Torre November 11th, 2007 at 7:48 pm

    “It’s not about the money”

    that’s good. I guess he’s negotiating for a bigger parking space and more shower room soap.

  5. KaseyB November 11th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

    Oh please…..it’s ALWAYS about the money.

  6. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Who was is that said “When they say it’s not about the money, it’s always about the money”?

  7. The Monarch November 11th, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Thanks Pete. This basically confirms what most of believed already, but after that Giants game, it’s nice to get some good news.

    Let’s hope the deal gets done.

  8. murphydog November 11th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

    My take: He’s just running it out. Jorge is not stupid. If he really wanted the Yankees to sweat, he either wouldn’t have said anything (“Things are at a delicate point right now and I really can’t get into it…”) or he would been less obvious about voicing his preferences (“New York is my home. And I want to stay in NY if I can”). He’s going to take it down to the wire and maybe a little beyond, but he’s coming back. I hope.

    Also interesting was the “Girardi is like my big brother” thing. Jorge is nothing if not competitive. Can you imagine the right of passage stuff he went through with Girardi, another guy who won’t give an inch? (Girardi: “No, no, no. Don’t do it that way, do it this way.” Jorge: “Who the **** are you?”) No wonder people who saw them together back then think there may have been a problem. I bet they are great together now, despite an occasional shouting match. You all wanted passion, right?

  9. Irabu's Son November 11th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    If only Rivera had enough class to say he’d rather stay in NY.

  10. Torre, Torre, Torre November 11th, 2007 at 7:57 pm

    ya know, Jorge has every reason to sign with the Mets and reunite with Willie Randolph. Like Peter said, right now, the Mets are closer to the World Series than the Yankees. Signing with the Mets would perhaps tip the scales for the next two years.

  11. Shamus November 11th, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    I say Jorge gets paid. Let him get the fair market value. If he wants to stay with the Yankees, and at four years, then he knows he will see a lot of DH time when Giambi leaves after this year and both Matsui and Damon are gone next year (after 09).

    There’s no way he could last four years catching and playing 1B in the NL.

    I still can’t believe the Twins want Cano for Santana, along with Hughes and another pitcher. Why not offer Duncan, he’s shown at AAA and in the MLB he has power. Why not Duncan, Cabrera, Hughes and Horne can’t get it done?

    Please don’t trade Robinson Cano!

  12. Shamus November 11th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    Shelley that is, not Eric…

  13. murphydog November 11th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    Irabu’s Son:

    You think Rivera lacks class? Unique viewpoint.

  14. Todd Drew November 11th, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    Excellent work, Peter. You get the news first even at a basketball game.

  15. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    “I still can’t believe the Twins want Cano for Santana, along with Hughes and another pitcher. Why not offer Duncan, he’s shown at AAA and in the MLB he has power. Why not Duncan, Cabrera, Hughes and Horne can’t get it done? ”

    Shamus, i have noticed a common theme in all of your trade proposals: you seem to think that adding MORE players is the same as adding GOOD players.

    that’s not really how it works. two B prospects does not equal one A prospect.

    if the Twins want Cano, Malky, and Hughes, it means they want 1 star player, a cheap CFer, and an A pitching prospect.

    you can’t substitute Duncan and Horne for Cano. would the yankees trade Cano to another team for Duncan and Horne? no, they would laugh at that idea.

    IMO, if the Twins want Robbie and Phil, i’d tell them to take a hike. but if i were the Twins, that’s probably what i would ask for too.

    but the Yankees are not going to trade Cano, he may be their best player next year.

  16. Dee November 11th, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    To me the biggest tip-off that he’s staying is the comment about Joe G. He doesn’t need to go out of his way to say he loves Joe and Joe is like a big brother unless he know he’ll likely be playing for the guy next year. This is all good.

    At the end, I’m very confident Jorge will return and I don’t blame him for making Cash sweat a little before signing for what is probably his last contract before he retires. There are kids with half his years in the league, half his proven performance and no playoff experience who are having a lot more fun in the FA market than Jorge is. Why shouldn’t Jorge push a little now given the kind of career he’s had? I think he’s earned it.

    Irabu’s Son: “If only Rivera had enough class to say he’d rather stay in NY.” –

    C’mon, how can you say Mo doesn’t have class?! Of course he wants to stay, he expressed his interest to stay back in spring training! Mo’s contract expired, he’s now actively negotiating for a new one, what else do you want from him? Arod did say he wants to stay in NY, numerously times in fact, does that make him classy then given what he ended up doing?

  17. Carson November 11th, 2007 at 8:12 pm

    I will be absolutely pissed if they trade Cano.

  18. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 11th, 2007 at 8:12 pm

    :D I love Jorge!! I’ll bet he’ll just listen to the Mets and sign with the Yankees right before the deadline. Just to tweak them. :)

  19. mike f November 11th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    irabu son:

    we’ve all read a lot of total c-rap here from time to time this year, but to call out mariano rivera as not having any class!! take a hike.

    that’s about as civilly as i can say it here

  20. Jimbo November 11th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    hmmm,

    The reason so many people on the blog like to make up possible trades is because they all think that they have magic rocks that keep away tigers, too…

  21. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    If the Yanks could have gotten Jorge signed in the spring for 2/$30M or 3/$36 and now have to pay him 4/$52M or $56M, the amount of money they would have to overpay Jorge now would be in the same neighborhood as the amount of money that made A-Rod unattractive to re-sign.

  22. tallomd November 11th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    If Cashman lets his third baseman, his catcher, his manager and his closer go in the same season then he will probably be the subject of the first public crucifixion since the fall of the roman empire. Not to mention that our most seasoned veteran pitcher doesn’t want to play for our team. Who’s next … Jeter? Yeah … I know he’s got a contract until 2010 but it seems that everyone and their grandmother is scared to be a Yankee these days. Maybe we should bring up the Scranto Wilkes Barre team? That would save us a lots of dollars.

  23. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 11th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    Jorge is getting alot of love for the team, he is just soaking in all the attention.

  24. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    “The reason so many people on the blog like to make up possible trades is because they all think that they have magic rocks that keep away tigers, too…”

    true.

    i like Shamus’ enthuiasm, he is obviously excited about the team.

    i was just trying to offer some advice since i’ve noticed a lot of that on this blog, people are always trying to offer quantity instead of quality.

  25. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    “If Cashman lets his third baseman, his catcher, his manager and his closer go in the same season then he will probably be the subject of the first public crucifixion since the fall of the roman empire. Not to mention that our most seasoned veteran pitcher doesn’t want to play for our team. Who’s next … Jeter? Yeah … I know he’s got a contract until 2010 but it seems that everyone and their grandmother is scared to be a Yankee these days. ”

    this is a funny reaction to a post where Posada says he loves the manager and the Yankees are his #1 choice.

    Mariano looks to be coming back.

    and Pettitte has said

  26. vrsce November 11th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Yankees will be fine
    Rivera, Posada, the Santana and Tejeda.

    No synergy with Arod, a self centered egoist

  27. Peter Abraham November 11th, 2007 at 8:28 pm

    I love how people think free agents should just cave in and be grateful to get what they can from the Yankees?

    Why is that? The team makes millions and millions a year. The players should get whatever they can by any means they can use. Why should owners get all the money?

  28. Jeff November 11th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    People are stupid Pete, especially fans.

    They forget its millionaires trying to get more from billionaires….The fans dont realize they are loyal to the billionaires that run their team.

  29. catya November 11th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    If Cashman doesn’t offer Posada and Mariano a good contract,he’ll be handing away another WS win,like he did this year, when he under bid for matsuzaka!! Their contracts will determine if the yanks want to contend in 2008. Yankees need them on the team.

  30. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    oops:

    “and Pettitte has said it’s the yankees or no one.”

  31. PAT M. November 11th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    It’s no surprise that the Twins want Cano…They have a surplus of young pitchers in their system….They want position players, just what the Yanks are short on…..That being said they need to make every effort in trying to obtain Johan….This off course is if they can be granted a window to sign him long term….If not just wait and hope he hits the market next winter……Jorge will sign with the Bombers after the market drives up his value…..

  32. Aubrey November 11th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    YES! Hip Hip JORGE!

  33. BBB November 11th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    Yup, as others have said, in the wake of an extremely frustrating Giants loss it is nice to get this good news. Deep down I believed all along Jorge would return but it is nice to hear him say, or imply, it too. Let’s hope they get it done soon – he has earned his payday and the Yankees have no reason to not match or exceed the Mets’ offer. That Jorge said “we’re really close” shows me Cash & co. feel the same way – good news :)

    That signing Jorge greatly increases the odds of a Pettitte return, as Pete pointed out a few days ago, makes it even better.

  34. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    “I love how people think free agents should just cave in and be grateful to get what they can from the Yankees?

    Why is that? The team makes millions and millions a year. The players should get whatever they can by any means they can use. Why should owners get all the money?”

    huh.

    i agree with you 100%.

    but that second paragraph doesn’t seem to jive with your coverage of A-Rod opting out. like that hall of fame bust with the “salary cap”.

    ehh, whatever. i’m tired of talking about it. just seems a tad inconsistent.

  35. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    …Sheesh.

    Dude, guys, some of us are still beginners in baseball.

    Seriously, when I started posting here way back when in August, I did not know the following:

    anyone in the Yankees’ farm system.
    I confused Phil Hughes with Darrell Rasner (don’t ask)
    sabermetrics
    A-rod and the ‘opt out’
    that I was totally not alone in thinking that Torre couldn’t manage a bullpen.

    etc.

    basically what I’m tryna say is be patient. People will learn.

    :)

  36. catya November 11th, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    I don’t begrudge Pasada or Mariano for wanting good contracts.They watched Arod, Roger ,and a host of others come in for huge contracts. They both deserve every consideration they can get.They are true Yankees!

  37. Ethan November 11th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    The irony of Pete’s comments above, which I generally agree with, is that IN SOME WAYS it validates A-Rod’s point.

    “I love how people think free agents should just cave in and be grateful to get what they can from the Yankees?…The players should get whatever they can by any means they can use.”

    As was noted above, overpaying for 40+ year olds Posada and Rivera is fine with me. Overpaying for A-Rod may be a better option than trading top prospects for a replacement, especially if they trade Cano as for Santana as suggested earlier. Without Cano in the lineup, I think bringing back A-Rod would become even more necessary.

  38. raymagnetic November 11th, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    If the Twins think they can get Robinson Cano and Phil Hughes for Johan Santana they are smoking the same stuff that posters here are smoking when they suggest trades of Ian Kennedy/Horne/Shelly Duncan for Johan.

    Do the Twins really want arguably the best second baseman in the AL plus a top of the rotation starter for Johan? I thought they wanted Cano, plus lower level prospects.

  39. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    raymagnetic

    I read Cano, Melky and a lower level pitching prospect would probably get it done. The article said they were looking for offense and position players before pitching.

  40. Dee November 11th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    Bottom line:

    Mo and Po’s contracts expired. They’re now actively negotiating for a new contract and keeping conversation open with Cash (i.e., unlike Arod).

    They have played hard and have been loyal for their entire career with the Yankees.

    This is likely their last contracts before they retire. They’re trying to get the best offer from the richest team in baseball.

    To me, this is all fair and square. Anyone who’s calling them not classy, greedy, mercenary or all those unthinkable words have either not watched Mo and Po’s contribution to the Yankees in the past 12 yrs or have forgotten this is MLB and not charity ball.

  41. raymagnetic November 11th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    Thanks Bryant, that’s what I thought as well.

  42. catya November 11th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    People let Arod leave.You think he got booed last year,after all this drama this postseason,he’ll be heckled
    like you wouldn’t believe.He kissed of the Yankees,let him goooooo.When one player causes this much aggrevation to a team,is he worth the headache?

  43. BBB November 11th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    I have a question loosely related to Posada’s re-signing, did Molina even file for free agency yet? I remember hearing about Villone and Viz filing, but not him.

  44. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    Catya
    The guys in the clubhouse who know him seem to have less of a problem with A-rod than you do. Did he run over your puppy or something?

  45. yanksrule57 November 11th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    The Yankees know what they have in Robbie Cano. You do not trade a 23 year old, arbitration eligible, gold glove caliber fielding, .307 career hitter, period. They will not trade him and Hughes for Santana. It would not be improving the team to do so. It would also leave them with two infield positions to fill vice one. And, there is not a high quality 2B in the minors ready to take the job.
    So when you read stuff like this try and ask if it makes sense and always keep the bigger picture in mind.

  46. catya November 11th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Bryant he ran over the Yankees,that’s good enough for me!!

  47. Irabu's Son November 11th, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    For murphydog, Dee, Mike, Pete, Jeff:

    First off, I respect your opinions.

    However, here is my gripe with Rivera. The New York Yankees have paid him over $84,000,000 in the last 10 years. 84 million. That is more money than 99.999% of us will ever sniff in our lifetimes. We fans cheered him every time he took the mound, never once booed him for blowing a key save, never once blamed him for World Series losses.

    Rivera is one of my favorite players of all-time. Until this off-season. When the Yankees and Joe Torre could not come to an agreement on a contact (reminder: Torre was not fired), Rivera said that “The Yankees are now just one of thirty teams.” What? What about the accolades you’ve received from being a member of the Yankees? What about the rich, extravagant lifestyle you live because for the last 13 years, you’ve been cashing checks from the Yankees? What about we fans, who have been with you every step of the way?

    Mariano Rivera is a hero to the working people of New York and our support has helped you become a rich and famous man. Throw us a bone. Tell us how much you love playing in New York. I am not asking you to give the Yankees a discount. I am asking that you give the team and fans some respect.

  48. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    “They’re now actively negotiating for a new contract and keeping conversation open with Cash (i.e., unlike Arod).”

    i’m pretty sure it’s the yankees who are not allowing any conversation with a-rod, not the other way around.

  49. PAT M. November 11th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    I’m not a fan of Mike Lupica, but he did write a nice piece today on A-Rod and his postseason heroics….

  50. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    “We fans cheered him every time he took the mound, never once booed him for blowing a key save, never once blamed him for World Series losses.”

    not true.

    i was there. game 2 of the 2005 season. rivera was booed.

    “That is more money than 99.999% of us will ever sniff in our lifetimes. ”

    completely irrelevant.

  51. ThatWasMe November 11th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    Irabu’s son, why don’t you quell all your angst and send Mo a letter asking him if he loves NY. I’m sure he has no idea what he is doing to you.

  52. BBB November 11th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    Irabu’s son: We don’t even really know for sure that Mo actually said the Yankees were just one of 30 teams do we? Wasn’t that something that was leaked from a source close to a friend of his or something equally questionable like that? And then the first quotes that Mo actually gave reporters after that completely contradicted it. It’s not like we ever heard those words straight from his mouth or anything, can’t always believe secondhand info. and if I had a dollar for every time Mo has said something positive about the Yanks, or that he loves playing in NY, I could afford to go eat at his restaurant.

    Besides talk is cheap, it’s not like Mo is Pay-Rod, we don’t need him to repeatedly tell us he loves playing in NY and being a Yankee, after all the times he has already SHOWN us just that.

  53. 27for27 November 11th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    Rebecca,

    If I were you, I would consider working on credentials to teach high school history if you don’t already have them and at the same time apply to doctoral programs in history. You could then choose between the two depending on what happens. The idea of working part time on a doctorate is very iffy. It is easier to get into such programs directly from college and probably works better than waiting. A doctoral program is not more daunting than a master’s program, it is just a longer time commitment. Also consider you are more likely to be eligible for a teaching assistantship and free tuition as a doctoral rather than master’s student.
    ps–you may not need better than average GRE scores but I would definitely retake them because most schools only consider your most recent scores.

    I would like to experience a sports victory. I am going on the Yankee’s three losses in the ALDS followed by a Cleveland loss in ALCS game 1. Granted we had a tantalizing respite with a few Indians wins, but it was followed by Indian’s 3 consecutive losses in the ALCS and the Rockies 4 consecutive losses to the RS, totally 7 consecutive very frustrating baseball games. Colts lost to the Patriots. Jets lose. Even though I’m not a Giant’s fan, I am a NY sports fan. When are we going to win?

  54. ThatWasMe November 11th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    irabu’s son, are you a fat toad or still just a tadpole??

  55. PittsburghYankeeFan November 11th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    (1) Posada will kick the Mets tires. It will get him an extra year out of the Yankees. It sounds like this is a question of a vested option versus a guaranteed year. If Omar et al give him 5 years, that would be stupid of them, but Jorge would be tempted.

    (2) Mo will sign. He also just wants to see what’s out there, and make Cash sweat a bit for not signing him in ST like he wanted.

    (3) Pettite may retire. OK. I still think it’s 50-50.

    (4) Nobody is giving up Cano, Hughes, Melky for Santana. The Yankees have a decent rotation right now with Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Wang, and Mussina (yes, even Mussina). Pettite would be icing on the cake.

    (5) Get these two done, and then the big question comes: 3B. Let’s see the Angels supposed offer to Underdog. I’m not convinced that this saga is over.

  56. catya November 11th, 2007 at 9:14 pm

    Par M on a previous thread,Lupica’s article mentioned Arod’s deplorable posrseason stats since 2004, 38 runners on base he went 0 for 27. Boras conveniently leaves out those facts,doesn’t he?

  57. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:14 pm

    “(5) Get these two done, and then the big question comes: 3B. Let’s see the Angels supposed offer to Underdog. I’m not convinced that this saga is over.”

    good point.

  58. Carson November 11th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    Rebecca,

    I starting out sentences with “dude, guys” your thing?

  59. Torre, Torre, Torre November 11th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    Peter,

    nobody is arguing on behalf of the Steinbrenner’s bottom line. To the contrary, we’re arguing for team flexibility.

    Yes, it’s not our money, but it’s our team – we’re the ones who fill up the stadium.

    Yes, it’s not our money, but nobody cares that the Steinbrenners and their partners pay Carl Pavano (and perhaps Kei Igawa) for nothing. We care because that money could have been used elsewhere. We care about wasting budget space when another opportunity maybe available. Even the Yankees have a ceiling.

    I think we agree. Overpay for Jorge, considering he’s been underpaid in baseball terms, just give us some flexibility with a club option and buyout in the 4th year.

  60. Phil - 27 in '08 November 11th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    If the Mets sign Jorge, they are still missing the starting pitching that failed them down the stretch. I don’t think they are locks to win the NL with Jorgie.

  61. CaptainsCorner November 11th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    So he will stay in NY. The question is how much more would the Mets have to offer to get him to Shea?? Since Posada has made it a point to mention them in his 2 interviews. Now whether he is just using them or would really go there is 2 different things..I think he is just using them. I think this will go on for another 2 weeks or so after he gets every last dollar out of the Yanks, which he has every right to do but I do not see him leaving Jeter and also saying how much he likes Girardi for a dollar or 2.. If I was Cash my highest offer would be 4 years/$56m. That is it! There is no way I get into a bidding war with the Mets for a 36 year old catcher. If they want him for lets say $65m then they can have him. Or if he would go there for a dollar over what the Yanks offer then bye.

  62. Peter Abraham November 11th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    You can’t compare salaries to regular people. Does your job directly provide your company with millions in revenue? probably not. Did you have to take below market rate at your job for 6 years? probably not.

    Mariano treats ytou with respect by playing hard and playing well. that is his end of the bargain. he said plenty of nice things about the yankees after the season. why should be come out with some b.s. statement?

    as for A-Rod, I never once said he shouldn’t opt out or pursue the most money. God bless him and anybody else who wants that. my issue was how he conducted himself all season, saying how much he loved New York, etc. Then refusing to even meet with the Steinbrenners.

  63. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 9:22 pm

    Peter,

    You seem to be overlooking the contribution that teams make toward players from the time that they are drafted or signed as free agents. They invest a lot of money coaching them and while they do, they pay them more than they are worth. Why shouldn’t a player reciprocate that generosity when they become free agents.

    It seems like you are opposed to A-Rod squeezing out every last dollar, but you are fine when Posada does it.

  64. catya November 11th, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    Thank You Peter,Arod is a phony!

  65. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    27for27: Thanks for the advice…unfortunately, the program I’m looking at doesn’t take PhD candidates who don’t already have a Masters, and even then, my GPA barely reaches the minimum.

    Carson: It’s a habit, I guess. I don’t really know where it started, seeing as I’ve lived my life on the east coast, but I say dude all the time. Dude, guys, or dude, or dudes and dudettes is a favorite…

    I mean, I could go like House and say ‘danglers’ and ‘holies’ but that wouldn’t work out too well, would it ;) ?

  66. Andrea November 11th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    Ok weird question that is not trying to imply anything, just a question. Does Jeter have a no trade clause in his contract, or is that just kind of a given because he’s Jeter? It would be kind of interesting to know…

  67. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    “as for A-Rod, I never once said he shouldn’t opt out or pursue the most money. God bless him and anybody else who wants that.”

    sure. but posting that picture of a-rod with the caption “you pay, i play” is basically the same as throwing a raw steak to a pack of wild dogs.

    that picture implied a thousand words about how you feel about a-rod going to for the money.

    i don’t have a problem with your reporting, i really don’t, but there is a little inconsistency in your comments now.

  68. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    Andrea,

    Jeter has five and ten rights which allow him to veto any trade.

  69. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    “Ok weird question that is not trying to imply anything, just a question. Does Jeter have a no trade clause in his contract, or is that just kind of a given because he’s Jeter”

    not sure about the actual contract, but he has 10-5 rights, so he can’t be traded without his consent.

  70. Jamie November 11th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    Derek Jeter ss
    10 years/$189M (2001-10)

    * $16M signing bonus (paid in 16 $1M installments 1/30 & 6/30, 2001-08)
    * 01:$11M, 02:$13M, 03:$14M, 04:$17M, 05:$18M, 06:$19M, 07-09:$20M/year, 10:$21M
    * no-trade clause
    * signed extension 2/01, avoided arbitration ($18.5M-$14.25M)
    * 1 year/$10M (2000), avoided arbitration 2/00 ($10.5M-$9.5)
    o replaced tentative deal for 7 years/$118.5M (2000-06)
    * 1 year/$5M (1999), won arbitration 2/99 ($5M-$3.2M)
    * 1 year/$0.75M (1998)
    o renewed 3/98
    * 1 year/$0.55M (1997)
    o renewed 3/97 (later given more than minimum renewal)
    * 1 year/$0.13M (1996)
    * drafted 1992 (1-6), $0.8M signing bonus (Kalamazoo (MI) HS)
    * agent: Casey Close
    * ML service: 11.043

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/

  71. PittsburghYankeeFan November 11th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    Pete

    Do you think we will see Underdog in a Yankee uniform at 3B when all is said and done?

    The Yankees and ARod appear made for each other, however dysfunctional that may be for both of them.

    ARod deserves the abuse he is taking over the opt out episode–he could have handled it better.

    ARod wants to know his true market worth. He was likely instructed by Boras not to meet with the Steinbrenners, since such a meeting would result in an extension offer which may or may not be his true worth.

    He could have returned Cash’s call and told him this. That is the part I don’t understand.

  72. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Jeter owes that contract to A-Rod and Tom Hicks.

  73. Andrea November 11th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    Wow! You guys are on top of this!

    I don’t know what makes me think of weird stuff. I just do.

  74. dylan November 11th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    cash:

    sign mo and po
    these guys are the heart and soul of the team
    overpay them… show them the love you showed pavano and giambi and igawa, for instance, who produce nada

    with mo and po we get andy

    then go get a decent 3rd baseman

    i’ll take my chances then with the pitching staff we’ve got

    don’t trade the young guys and our future

    that’s my 2 cents

  75. BBFan November 11th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Mo and Po have the right to explore the market and maximize thier value.

    At the same time, Yanks have the right to stop at some point and say it is too much they want and decide to go in a different direction.

    It is a free world folks.

    To Pete and others who think that Mets have a better chance than Yanks to go to WS, my question is what are you smoking? Obvioulsy, things will change with the moves the teams will make during the off-season, but as it stands today, with horrible pitching Mets have, they have a better shot? Common, wake up!!!!

  76. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 9:35 pm


    “For a hundred years the owners screwed the players. For 25 years
    the players have screwed the owners – they’ve got 75 years to go.”
    - Yankees pitcher Jim Bouton ”

    BEST. QUOTE. EVER.

  77. Dee November 11th, 2007 at 9:35 pm

    hmmm said:
    “They’re now actively negotiating for a new contract and keeping conversation open with Cash (i.e., unlike Arod).”
    i’m pretty sure it’s the yankees who are not allowing any conversation with a-rod, not the other way around.”

    That’s not true. Arod wouldn’t return Cash and Steins’ calls and refused to listen to Yankees’ offer. Sure he’s ready to negotiate now but that’s after costing $31mill of the Texas money and I suspect he only wants to use the Yanks to hike up other offers. That’s completely different than what Mo and Po are doing as fair free agents. Also Mo and Po both wanted to sign back in the spring.

    Irabu’s Son –

    I feel that you’re only trying to extend your honest opinions here to which you are entited so I’ll be reasonable with you in return. I think we’ll all drive ourselves crazy and it’ll be a lost cause if we ever compare what these players make to what we all make in salary. Of course Mo makes more than 99.999% of us here as you said. All pro athletes do. It’s demand and supply, they are rare people with extraordinary talents. We need to recognize that, accept it and move on.

    and when you said “I am not asking you to give the Yankees a discount. I am asking that you give the team and fans some respect.”

    I never feel disrespected by Mo now that he’s trying to negotiate for the most he can get. He’s my favorite Yankee, he’s the best closer in history of the game, he’s always given the team and the fans 100%, and for MLB standard, he’s not making that much. I want him to make more. After 12 years and now into his final contract, I’m excited for him that he’s finally in a position to ask for all that he’s worth.

  78. Andrea November 11th, 2007 at 9:37 pm

    Speaking of Igawa–he wasn’t in the 2007 team photo. Pavano was, Igawa was not.

  79. catya November 11th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    BBFan I think Pete was saying if Mo and Pasada went to the mets ,they would be in better contention for the WS, than the yankees,without them no way.

  80. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    What Jim Bouton fails to acknowledge is that the pendulum has now swung too far in the other direction.

    Time is a lot more compressed now.

  81. Andrea November 11th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    whoa: exactly what I was about tosay.

  82. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 9:40 pm

    Uh, guys, I just saw this from Cot’s:

    Chien-Ming Wang p
    1 year/$489,500 (2007)

    * renewed 3/07 after choosing not to re-sign for $514,050
    * 1 year/$353,175 (2006)
    * signed 2000 as undrafted free agent from Taiwan, $1.9M signing bonus
    * agent: CSMG

    The Wanger turned down more money? What am I missing here?
    * ML service: 1.159

  83. BBFan November 11th, 2007 at 9:40 pm

    Catya,

    That is not what was said. Please check.

    Even if Po goes to Mets, that does not change the equation. Po is not a pitcher. Mets do not need MO. They have a closer already.

  84. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    “To Pete and others who think that Mets have a better chance than Yanks to go to WS, my question is what are you smoking?”

    i don’t know, it’s a legitimate point. it is not the same thing as saying the Mets are better than the Yankees, b/c i don’t think they are.

    but the Mets probably have a better chance to make it to the WS if they make it to the playoffs.

    the fact is that most of the best teams are in the AL at this point.

    to get to the WS, the yankees would have had to beat the Indians and Red Sox, 2 teams easily better than anyone in the NL.

    the yankes, red sox, tigers, indians, and angels were all better than anyone in the NL. the Blue Jays, Twins, Mariners, and maybe the A’s could all compete in the NL.

    that is what Pete meant.

  85. catya November 11th, 2007 at 9:44 pm

    BBFan ,didn’t say that’s what was said.I said what I thought Pete meant,please reread what I said.

  86. Andrea November 11th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    BBFan: thank you.

  87. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    I agree with Pete’s logic that the players should get their share of the revenue. After all, without the players there is no major league baseball,

    The problem people have with ARod is that he not only wants his share,but the equivalent of almost half an average team’s payroll . ARod is an exceptional player, but it’s not fair to the owners or his teamates that he demands to be paid so much that it hamstrings the team.

    The Yankees, of course, could afford him. It’s bad enough that he lied to the fans and media about wanting to play here. But his greed also allienates him with his teamates.

  88. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 9:52 pm

    “That’s not true. Arod wouldn’t return Cash and Steins’ calls and refused to listen to Yankees’ offer.”

    is posada going to sign before Tuesday when he can listen to what other teams are offering?

    no.

    that was my only point.

    the yankees were trying to prevent A-Rod the same luxury they are allowing Posada: to hear what other teams are offering.

    as long as a-rod was willing to acknowledge that the yankees’ next offer would adjust for the Texas money, then there is no reason to cut off the negotiations.

    if the situations were truly the same, the yankees would be telling Posada that if he doesn’t sign before Tuesday, he can’t come back.

    after all, once Posada “opts out” by taking offers from the Mets, it will surely cost the Yankees more money, analagous to losing the Texas money.

    in both situations the yankees are trying to exploit imperfect information by not allowing the player to determine market value. the difference is that they are not slamming the door on Posada.

    i am not even saying the Yankee SHOULD have opened the vault and met Boras’ demands. i don’t know if they should have, that depends on how much he eventually signs for. but some people are simply taking A-Rod’s decision *WAY* too personally.

  89. Jimbo November 11th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

    I am not sure Pete has been inconsistent, certainly not in his Journal reporting. But on the blog I think he comes right up to the line.

    A-Rod started the whole mess by not talking to people (Boras advice no doubt) so now the Yanks ain’t talking back. I like that.

    But I really would not be surprised to see him in Pinstripes next season.

  90. Thomas November 11th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    I may be off in left field but don’t you think that it would be better to go with a proven winning pitcher who will most likely win a post season game for you instead of 3 rookies who may not pan out? Now listen, Hughes looks good but he had hickups this year due to the injury or maybe due to something else. We will not know for sure until a full season under his belt. Joba may be a good reliever but we really don’t know how he will be as a started. He was great but he didn’t have to face the lineup a second time, therefore not adjustments from the hitters. He may be just as good a starter as he was this past year but you never know. Kennedy, I just don’t know because he didn’t pitch alot. I know that if they do well then it will turn out OK but if they don’t, will we all be kicking ourselves that the trade was never done. What I am saying is that at least you know what you are getting with Santana. There are too many questions about the long term future of the kids. Remember that Moose would be the only vet in the rotation because Wang is still a kid to some degree.

  91. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    “ARod is an exceptional player, but it’s not fair to the owners or his teamates that he demands to be paid so much that it hamstrings the team. ”

    this doesn’t really make sense.

    he can only “demand” what someone consents to pay him.

    there is nothing fair or unfair about it. the owners have to willingly agree to pay him.

    if they are foolish enough to pay him so much that it hamstrings their team, that is not really a-rod’s fault. no one is putting a gun to their heads.

    also, paying A-Rod $25M to be the best player in MLB all 3 years did NOT hamstring the Rangers. paying Chan Ho Park $14M a year to be horrible is what hamstrung the Rangers.

  92. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    hmmm,

    If ARod’s salary doesnt hamstring teams, then why arent more teams trying to buy him?

  93. Dee November 11th, 2007 at 10:06 pm

    Hmmm -

    If Jorge doesn’t sign until he hears other teams’ offers after Tuesday, I’m completely fine with that. Same as I would have been ok if Arod listened to Yankees’ offer, waited 9 days after the WS to think things over, decided he could get more elsewhere, then opt out. I would have been fine with that too.

    You’re right, I admit with Arod it’s personal. But that’s b/c he makes it personal. Not returning calls, saying he wants to stay but not even giving us a chance to make an offer, opting out on the 1st day… I don’t want to dwell on Arod anymore but as many have already said, it’s not the opt out, it’s the way he did it. HE makes it personal.

    And speaking of personal, Jorge and Mo have been loyal Yankees for 12 years. They have earned our good wills. Arod didn’t.

  94. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    “What I am saying is that at least you know what you are getting with Santana. There are too many questions about the long term future of the kids”

    if you believe this you will NEVER be willing to play young talent and will ALWAYS want to trade young talent for veterans b/c you fear the unknown.

    that’s no way to go through life.

    at some point you have to trust the people who evalutate your talent and go to the mat with your own talent.

    this same attitude would have lead to trading Jeter in 1996 for an established SS.

    i’m not saying i don’t want the yankees to trade for Johan, but at some point you have to accept that the consequences of failure, not making the playoffs for a year, are NOT that bad. the potential payoff is worth the risks.

  95. PK November 11th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Rebecca,

    Re: Wang, the Yankees probably tried to get Wang to sign a multi-year deal for 500k or so during spring training that would take him into his arbitration years, and he obviously refused, seeing how he could get much more in arbitration.

  96. dylan November 11th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    the thought of a-rod back in the bronx is too awful to contemplate

    sure he’s entitled to get the most money he can from anyone stupid enough to pay it

    but telling your employer to swallow $21 million and treating that employer and your teamates and fans like a-rod and boras have is a bit much to choke down

    go to l.a.
    play for joe
    maybe joe can screw with his head and bat him 8th on opening day

    another league
    another time zone
    out of sight
    out of mind

  97. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    “If ARod’s salary doesnt hamstring teams, then why arent more teams trying to buy him?”

    they WILL try to buy him. as soon as his price comes down.

    if the price he is asking now will hamstring their team, they WON’T try to buy him.

    pretty simple.

    but it’s not “unfair to the owners” that he is asking a high price. they simply can refuse to pay it.

    fairness has nothing to do with it.

  98. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    But dylan, if AFraud goes to LA we might never get to “greet” him at the Stadium like he deserves.

  99. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 10:13 pm

    Id take Mora for 3B next yr…he always hits the Yankees well especially Pavano!!(hit on right side of head by Melvin Mora 4-10-05)

    Nice to see that Jorge will be back,Id say 80 percent yes!
    Mariano Id say 75 percent yes!

    Cano and S.Duncan for Johan…….yes

  100. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:13 pm

    “Same as I would have been ok if Arod listened to Yankees’ offer, waited 9 days after the WS to think things over, decided he could get more elsewhere, then opt out. I would have been fine with that too. ”

    no, i doubt you would have. there would have been 10,000 posts on this very blog accusing A-Rod of “leading the yankees on” and “using the yankees’ offer to shop around for more money”.

    if a-rod gave yankee fans hope for 9 days than opted out, the reactions would have been just as bad.

    i don’t get why anyone cares if he opts out on the 9th day or the 1st day. the net effect is the same. he opted out.

    why should he give the appearance of being interested in an offer from the yankees if he really wasn’t?? isn’t that “phoney”?

  101. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    PK:

    Aah, okay. That explains a lot.

  102. Jimbo November 11th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    “the thought of a-rod back in the bronx is too awful to contemplate”

    Not for me it’s not. Not at a fair price, and with whatever PR they need to use to make it palatable.

    If he re-signs, and has a great year, no one will care that he opted out.

  103. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    The Mets aren’t closer to the WS than the Yanks. That’s silly.

    And the Yanks aren’t trading Hughes, so people can stop putting him in their trade ideas.

  104. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 10:17 pm

    Pete or anyone out there

    Do you know when A-Fraud has to accept or reject the Yankees offer of arbitration????
    Is there a date we can circle on our calenders???

    My first circled date is NOV 20Th for Carl Pavanos release!!!

  105. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    I admit I do take AFraud too personally. As someone who defended him in times where he wasnt easy to defend, I feel betrayed. I saw him play in over 60 games in his Yankee career and never once booed him. But I was stupid enough to believe his lying a^^ when he said he enjoyed playing here and how much the unifom meant. The Yankees offer would have been a new mlb salary record. The reason he opted out was greed, nothing but greed.

  106. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    Phil–The Mets are not closer to winning the WS than the Yankees, but in the Not-As-Good League, they might very well be closer to being league champions than the Yankees.

    We’ve got the Red Sox, Indians, Angels.

    They’ve got….

    The Rockies.

  107. Jax November 11th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    Since the Twins are looking for hitting they’ll probably likely ask the Yankees for Cano,Tabata and Melky for Santana who knows maybe even more. Cashman needs his head examined if he does that deal.

    And I don’t like the idea of paying twice. Giving them big prospects and giving Santana big money, that’s alot.

  108. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    They’re not trading Cano either.

  109. dylan November 11th, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    drive 4-5

    we’ll see a-rod at the all-star game at yankee stadium
    we’ll give him a nice bronx cheer

    and “fairness” has nothing to do with a-rod’s antics
    but what about ethics?
    he wants to see what mo, po and andy are doing
    he announces his opt out during the final game of the world series
    boras claims collusion at the g.m. meeting
    boras wonders why the yankees won’t talk to them
    it goes on and on

    the circus MUST leave town so we can focus on the TEAM not on A-ROT
    and his wife with her lovely t-shirt

  110. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    can people think before they say trade Cano for Santana jesus !! calm the F down w/ those deals, we need Cano this coming season big time and he has value here in NY.

    man what an effin’ night

  111. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    Pete
    If ARod had called Hank back and said I appreciate you wanting me. I love NY and want to stay a Yankee but opting out is something that you knew was a possibility when you picked up my contract in 2004 and you agreed to the contract knowing that. Would the Yankees be negotiating with him now? Cashman already said repeatedly that wasn’t happening. Not returning the phone call was poor etiquette but it wasn’t changing the outcome as far as the Yankees were concerned. I’m guessing that in the absence of the ultimatum, the call would have been returned whether he truly loved NY or was using them to up an offer elsewhere..

    Eating the $21M for A-Rod over an 8 year period of time is less than $3M a year. Factoring in that they already got a player for $5 or $6M less than the highest paid player on the team for the last 4 years tells me the $21M wasn’t enough of a justification from a business perspective for not negotiating. Without the Texas money, the contract was basically a backloaded 12 year deal (2004-2013); at $30M for the last 8 years that works out to about $25M per. A touch more than Giambi and Jeter money.

    The only thing the Yankees got from the way A-Rod’s opted out was a good PR spin that they wouldn’t have gotten if he had called Hank and said what I wrote above.

  112. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    Rebecca, the Mets also have the Phillies and any number of teams they couldn’t beat when they had to to secure a post season birth. Their pitching is not too good and they have a bad farm system right now.

  113. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    Time to dust off that ol #45 from the hanger….cuz Phil Franchise might be wearing it in 2008 (unless he stays with #65)He isnt going anywheres guys…Kennedy maybe…Joba and Phil no way!!!

  114. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    “The Yankees offer would have been a new mlb salary record.”

    except the yankees never actually made an offer. you are going by a rumor.

    we have NO IDEA what the offer was. no idea.

    the numbers that were in that ESPN article were nothing more than the author’s guess.

    is it possible the yankees WANT you to think they were going to offer Alex a huge extension?

    b/c it seems to have worked.

  115. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    Utility Man

    December 7th

  116. Sylvia November 11th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    What does yankees need?
    Jorge,Mo,Pettite,bullpen pitcher and 3rd basemen.Forget about A-rod we do not need someone just eyes on $$$.

  117. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    ^^ everyone eyes $$$ don’t fall into that love for the game BS

  118. Dee November 11th, 2007 at 10:24 pm

    Hmmm –

    I’m sick of Arod talk and last thing I want is to talk in circle with you about him. But for the record, yes I would have been ok if he at least returned calls and listened to Cash’s offer first before opting out. I understand this is a business and please don’t try to read my mind.

    In anycase it’s apples and oranges to suggest that Arod and Mo/Po should have been treated the same way by the Yankees. Mo and Po are 12-yr career yankees who have 4 rings. Arod is a nomad who’s f*ked up every team relationships he’s ever had. Like I said, You were right when you said some of us are too personal in how we’re treating Arod but he brought it upon himself.

  119. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    wow ! on the MLB forum the Yankees are about to land Ben Sheets

  120. gayle November 11th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    My understanding is that teams have to offer arbitration by Dec 1 and then the player has 7 days to accept or reject. I have NOT read anywhere that the Yankees have offered just that they will according to Cash

  121. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 10:26 pm

    Just because someone puts in their post trading Cano to the Twins,doesnt mean its going to happen.Its called an opinion,do I think Cano would be traded to the Twins???No most likely not.Most people are responding to a post earlier today from someone that said the Twins would be interested in trading Santana and Cano would probably be the centerpiece.Chances of it happening—not likely.

  122. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:26 pm

    “but what about ethics?
    he wants to see what mo, po and andy are doing
    he announces his opt out during the final game of the world series
    boras claims collusion at the g.m. meeting
    boras wonders why the yankees won’t talk to them
    it goes on and on”

    i’m failing to see how any of these are unethical.

    also, the owners basically admitted to and paid restitution for colluding as recent as 4 years ago. so let’s not pretend that the idea of collusion is impossible.

  123. Torre, Torre, Torre November 11th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    brandon-

    can you post a link to the note.

  124. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Sylvia

    If it wasn’t about the money, no players would need agents. There’s a name for guys who play baseball for the love of the game. Career minor leaguers.

  125. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    According to Mark Healey, the Brewers are trying to work out a three-way deal with the Yankees to acquire Carl Crawford while sending Chris Capuano and/or Ben Sheets to the Yankees.

  126. Vinny 5743 November 11th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Irabu’s son: We don’t even really know for sure that Mo actually said the Yankees were just one of 30 teams do we? Wasn’t that something that was leaked from a source close to a friend of his or something equally questionable like that? And then the first quotes that Mo actually gave reporters after that completely contradicted it. It’s not like we ever heard those words straight from his mouth or anything, can’t always believe secondhand info. and if I had a dollar for every time Mo has said something positive about the Yanks, or that he loves playing in NY, I could afford to go eat at his restaurant.

    BBB,

    Not only did Mo say now it will be 30 teams, he said it on Yes and it was in every NY paper. It was said in late August or early September and it was originally said when the Yankees refused to discuss the contract in spring training. Mo has said this right from the beginning once Cashman refused to negotiate with him. Mo was annoyed when it happened and did say this.

    It’s only a bargaining ploy anyway but if Mo could get a massive contract elsewhere, do you honestly think he won’t at the very least look into it ? He’d be a fool not to as would any other player including Posada.

  127. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 10:28 pm

    Thank You gayle

    I heard the samething…just that the Yankees will offer arbitration when they have to…just wasnt sure how long he has to decide…Thanks Again

  128. dylan November 11th, 2007 at 10:28 pm

    please let’s not be trading melky or cano
    especially not cano

  129. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:28 pm

    “In anycase it’s apples and oranges to suggest that Arod and Mo/Po should have been treated the same way by the Yankees. Mo and Po are 12-yr career yankees who have 4 rings.”

    and it’s apples and oranges to suggest that A-Rod should treat the Yankees the same as Mo and Po.

    correct?

  130. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Brandon: wha?!

    Ben Sheets could be good, could be Pavano lite.

    Chris Capuano? Didn’t he lose like 18 starts in a row?

  131. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    hmmm,

    So you’re calling Brian Cashman a liar? Cash said the Yanks were preparing a substantial offer and certainly wanted Arod back.

    I guess Bill Madden is part of a grand conspiracy as well.

    “On top of the $91 million owed to A-Rod in the final years of his existing contract (salaries, through elevator kick-ins, of $32, $32 and $27 million), the Yankees were prepared to initially offer a five-year extension at $29 million a year for a total of $236 million. Knowing that Boras was going to demand the contract extend for 10 years, they were then prepared to go an extra two years for $58 million more, especially because, with the DH, they could afford Rodriguez a place in the lineup to chase the home run record.

    The Yankees were originally hoping to hold the annual average value of the deal to $28 million, but as it was revealed last week, under the terms of A-Rod’s contract he was entitled to $9 million of the $30 million subsidy the Texas Rangers were giving the Yankees – money the Rangers are still on the hook for. Thus, the total package A-Rod never was allowed to be offered – but nonetheless walked away from – came to $294 million.”

  132. Bryant November 11th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    brandon

    Any mention of who the Yanks are parting with to acquire Sheets?

  133. Torre, Torre, Torre November 11th, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    big different btwn Chris Capuano & Sheets.

    Who do the yankees give up in return, Giambi?

  134. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    not yet ..I’m waiting for that part.

  135. dontfirecash November 11th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    Capuano is from my hometown, Springfield MA, so I’d be happy to see him in pinstripes(even though he did lose an absurd amount of games this season).

  136. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    The deal would seem to have the Yankees sending someone to Tampa…maybe Melky? Ugh, I would not want that!

  137. ORORO November 11th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    If he walked on $294 then certainly Boras had a tacit agreement w/ some other club…..tampering…….. $294 and he passed……….WTF??!!!!!!!!!!!

  138. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    Who do the Yanks give up in this unusual scenario and why couldn’t TB just send Crawford and something and get Sheets themselves? Why do they need us?

  139. Dee November 11th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    No I don’t expect Arod to treat the Yankees the same as Mo and Po do. Mo and Po have known Cashman a long time. Po and his wife apparently had lunch with Cash just the other day to talk contract. I never expect Arod and Crod to do that.

    But I do expect decency and manners. And I expect respecting the game of baseball ie. not opting out during the WS. We’ve been thru the no return calls, I love NY blah blah blah a million times. What I’m trying to say is YES it IS personal, and YES, we don’t cut Arod the same slack we do Mo and Po b/c Arod hasn’t earned it. Far from it.

  140. dylan November 11th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    hmmmm

    almost every move a-rod and boras have ever made are ethically questionable

    they hate him in seattle, texas, toronto, boston and now n.y.

    the slap at arroyo
    the “ha!” against toronto
    you name it

    he’s a bush leaguer.. who happens to be one of the most talented players ever.. who’s a jerk and will never play on a world series winner

  141. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:36 pm

    Why would the Yankees be interested in Chris Capuano?

  142. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

    dontfirecash,

    I from the Berkshires myself.

  143. ORORO November 11th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

    it’s not “ethically questionable” to opt out, or to demand a lot of money which is what they have every right to do. What’s crazy is the $$$ amounts being thrown around by both player and management. Thats what is disturbing

  144. Jax November 11th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Phil, Ben Sheets is making MONEY. That’s why they don’t try to get him (Rays) for themselves.

  145. ORORO November 11th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    ..and the Rays need pitching..and a catcher……and a shortstop……..

  146. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    Rays dont want to pay Sheets

    I dont want to trade Melky to the Rays either…besides dont they have like 6 outfielders anyway???

  147. Vinny 5743 November 11th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    Arod doesn’t owe the Yankees anything.

    Boras more than likely told him not to reply to anyone as to not get into a possibility of Arod folding under pressure, which he’s known for or saying the wrong thing.

    Just because it was Hank and Cashman, means nothing more than a GM and owner trying to make a deal with him. Arod is in the position of power with nothing to lose in this. He will get a deal from someone for what he wants. It’s for the best anyway.

    Just because the fans are upset, that doesn’t mean Arod has to to anything. No one knows why Arod really wants to be elsewhere, aside from and not only because of the money. He may just want away from the NY Yankees all together. It’s his choice.
    You may not like it but that’s the way of the world and his right to opt out when he chooses.

  148. Little Chip November 11th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    “I want to stay with the Yankees” says Posada… Isn’t that what A-rod and Torre said?

  149. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    Jax

    good point, but they have so much money from the haves, that they might consider putting some of it into the team before the big boys get mad and contract them.

  150. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    it’s on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM and Gotham Baseball’s site Mark Healey is a very good insider source so this may definitely have legs.

    People remember the Yankees are trying to get Santana who knows what they’ll do to sweeten a pot or if they look elsewhere for an ACE.

  151. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    I’m off to bed. I’m gonna say a prayer that the Yankees don’t trade fellow Mass. native Chris Capuano. He stinks!

  152. Jimbo November 11th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    The Yankees have been masterful in their approach to the A-Rod mess so far. The whole “if you opt out you are gone” ultimatum has worked out well. A-Rod’s rep is in the toilet for the time being, and probably for some time to come.

    There was no reason that A-Rod should not have been allowed to test the FA market. The Texas money is not chump change but it is nothing compared to (as has been stated ad nauseum) the Pavano money, the Igawa posting fee, etc. But the Yanks made it seem like he was ungrateful for opting out. Well played.

    I do not think that CashMoney will let him sign elsewhere if the deal he is attempting to sign makes sense to the Yankees as well. At least the front office should start a conversation at that point.

  153. BBB November 11th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    “BBB,

    Not only did Mo say now it will be 30 teams, he said it on Yes and it was in every NY paper. It was said in late August or early September and it was originally said when the Yankees refused to discuss the contract in spring training. ”

    OK wait, now I’m confused. I thought the “now it will be 30 teams” comment wasn’t made until after Torre turned down the offer to return. Can someone clarify?

    Either way though, I agree that it’s all probably a bargaining ploy, but that’s part of the business of baseball, Mo and Po both have every right to listen to other offers to try and get more from the Yankees…what I take exception with is the OP’s comment that this somehow translates into Mo disrespecting the Yanks. I don’t see how!

  154. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    “he’s a bush leaguer.. who happens to be one of the most talented players ever.. who’s a jerk and will never play on a world series winner”

    yes, he probably is a jerk.

    but i don’t think you understand what the word “ethical” means.

    i don’t see how slapping a ball in the heat of competition has anything to do with ethics. at all.

    bending the rules during a game has nothing to do with ethics.

  155. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    Rays dont want to pay Sheets

    I dont want to trade Melky to the Rays either…besides dont they have like 6 outfielders anyway???

    w/ Action Jackson not too far away and Bret Gardner right around the corner it wouldn’t be all that bad. Oh and Jose Tabata :)

  156. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    “it’s on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM and Gotham Baseball’s site Mark Healey is a very good insider source so this may definitely have legs.”

    oh, for a minute there i thought you meant this was a real.

    mlbtraderumors.com?

    let me know when that Ian Kennedy for Mike Gonzalez trade goes through.

  157. Drive 4-5 November 11th, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    I’d agree with you Vinny except every public statement the lyin so and so made was contrary to his eventual actions. His name isn’t AFraud for nothing.

  158. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 11th, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    Hey, Pete, can you shed any like on this Sheets trade rumor? Who would the Yankees have to give up? This is very a intriguing development!

  159. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    hmmmm

    wasn’t it Melky for Mike Gonzalez last year?

  160. Jax November 11th, 2007 at 10:48 pm

    The Rays can easily be a contender in the AL east if they ever spent money. They try to have every single player on their roster from the system and hope that they turn out to be good players and then they try to trade them when it’s time to pay them. Kazmir will probably be on the block if not this off-season next one.

  161. BBB November 11th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    This is what I found on mlbtraderumors as of now re: Crawford/Sheets/Capuano…under “Brewers rumors.”

    “Finally, Gotham Baseball reports on the Brewers’ serious interest in Carl Crawford. The Dev… sorry, The Rays obviously have no interest in trade pieces Ben Sheets or Chris Capuano, both too “pricey”, says Healey. Meanwhile, the Yanks have reportedly expressed interest in both, so the Brewers and Rays will be trying to get the Yankees involved. If nothing else, this is a fun one to imagine.”

    I can dig the interest in Ben Sheets, but what on God’s good green earth would the Yanks want with Capuano? If he can’t win games in the NL Central, is he really for us?

  162. Torre, Torre, Torre November 11th, 2007 at 10:51 pm

    40-man roster question for a rules expert.

    When a player is placed on the DL, doesn’t that open a spot for another player?

    The front office says they’re going to DFA Pavano because they “need” his roster spot.

  163. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 11th, 2007 at 10:53 pm

    dammit where the hell is Pete

  164. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    “So you’re calling Brian Cashman a liar? Cash said the Yanks were preparing a substantial offer and certainly wanted Arod back.”

    nope, not calling anyone a liar, but i don’t believe this for a minute:

    “Knowing that Boras was going to demand the contract extend for 10 years, they were then prepared to go an extra two years for $58 million more”

    no way.

    you really think the yankees were prepared to offer A-Rod 10 years, $294M??

    you really think Cashman was prepared to pay A-Rod $30M a year when he is 40, 41, and 42?

    does that pass the smell test to you?

    would the Yankees really let A-Rod walk over $21M on a 10 year contract? doubtful. if that was really their offer, then wouldn’t they still be offering 10 years, $273M?

    that might still get it done, wouldn’t it?

    we’ll know in a month or so.

    if A-Rod signs for much less than this, we’ll know this was basically BS b/c it would mean Boras made a HUGE miscalculation. and that doesn’t really happen very often.

  165. GrouchoNYY November 11th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    Melky won’t get Sheets (and Capuano). There would have to be more to the deal. If not, I would trade Melky for Crawford straight up. Why would Tampa do that?

  166. Buddy Biancalana November 11th, 2007 at 10:55 pm

    Here’s the link to the Sheets-Crawford thread.

    http://gothambaseballmagazine......opic=431.0

  167. dontfirecash November 11th, 2007 at 10:57 pm

    Capuano was damn good in 2006, but he was absolutely terrible in ’07. He could be a good candidate for a rebound year, but I don’t really see the Yanks being that interested in him or the oft injured Sheets.

  168. Vinny 5743 November 11th, 2007 at 10:58 pm

    Drive 4-5,

    Ever think Arod said he loves NY the city and not the Yankees ? He never clarified that statement. Maybe he really wanted to stay but Boras talked him out of it.
    It is possible.
    Tough to say he’s lying, he may have wanted to stay at that time or until Boras showed him what he could make elsewhere after their initial meetings in California.

    In any event, what did anyone think he would say, “I hate the Yankees and want to move on.” He couldn’t tip his hand at that time when Boras was starting to pull the strings. And Boras should be blamed for the announcement during the WS but that’s what Boras does, stirs the pot to keep his client in view. We make not like it but worse things have happened.

    It’s business not personal, especially when big stakes are in play. Grey areas are what agents make a living on.

  169. GrouchoNYY November 11th, 2007 at 10:59 pm

    The only way Pavano gets dfa’d is if the Yankees don’t have enough slots on the forty man roster to protect their eligible youngsters from the rule 5 draft in December. That doesn’t seem necessary, considering that the existing free agents don’t count towards the forty (Clemens, Pettitte, etc.), and there is some deadwood to be let go anyway. Team insurance may not apply if Pavano is released, and he has to get paid in any situation.

  170. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 11:00 pm

    Players on the 60 day DL can have their spots taken on the 40 man roster. In the offseason, all players on the 60 day DL go back to the 40 and you can still only protect 40 players at that time.

  171. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 11:02 pm

    “hmmmm

    wasn’t it Melky for Mike Gonzalez last year?”

    here is the original rumor:

    “A baseball source indicated to MLBTradeRumors.com that the Yankees and Pirates are working on a trade that could be Mike Gonzalez and Nate McLouth for Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera. This is backed up by our good friend Jake at Bucco Blog, where Gonzalez, Kennedy, and Cabrera were mentioned in a recent podcast.”

  172. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 11:11 pm

    Isnt Mike Gonzalez on the Braves???

    I remember the rumor last winter about Melky to the Pirates for Gonzalez…but he got traded to Atlanta for LaRoche.

  173. GrouchoNYY November 11th, 2007 at 11:12 pm

    Why would the Yankees make such a deal wit the Pirates?

    Gonzalez was/ is damaged goods. McLouth is not significantly better than Melky and is older. Kennedy is too good a prospect to trade for a pig and a poke.

  174. GreenBeret7 November 11th, 2007 at 11:12 pm

    Only if the player is on the 60 day DL does he come off of the 40 man roster.

  175. Steve November 11th, 2007 at 11:14 pm

    Cashman’s shortsightedness will be responsible for the situation. His hisitation to sign Posada and Rivera before this season has shown how “cash efficient” this GM is.
    Sarcastically, he seems to be accustomed to waste on pitchers such as Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Igawa and even Big Unit. Shame!

  176. UtilityMan November 11th, 2007 at 11:16 pm

    Last Week the Yankees re-instated Humberto Sanchez,Darrell Rasner,Carl Pavano from the 60Day DL.

    Previous poster was right..teams have to have all players on 40 Man roster by the time Rule 5 draft comes around.
    Thats how the Yankees got Josh Phelps from the Orioles last winter,he wasnt protected after get picked up from Tigers AAA team.

  177. whoa November 11th, 2007 at 11:27 pm

    “Cashman’s shortsightedness will be responsible for the situation. His hisitation to sign Posada and Rivera before this season has shown how “cash efficient” this GM is.
    Sarcastically, he seems to be accustomed to waste on pitchers such as Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Igawa and even Big Unit. Shame!”

    Cash was right not to sign Mo after he came off a season of injury. In fact, if anything, Mo showed this season that while still good, he has begun to decline.

    He couldn’t sign Posada and not sign Rivera, so he had no choice but to wait.

    Cashman did not make the trade for RJ, he wanted Beltran.

    The reason he signed Pavano, who every team in MLB wanted, along with Brown, is that the farm system, that he had no conrol over until 2005, wasn’t producing pitchers.

    Since 2005, we are now stocked with young pitchers.

    I can’t defend the Igawa thing.

    Carry on.

  178. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 11:33 pm

    Torre ran into Pavano at a wedding and started lobbying for him. Pavano had higher bids, but came to the Yanks to do his goldbricking.

  179. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 11:33 pm

    “Gonzalez was/ is damaged goods. McLouth is not significantly better than Melky and is older. Kennedy is too good a prospect to trade for a pig and a poke.”

    right, that was my point. that was a rumor from that site last winter.

    we should consider that when deciding if this Sheets/Crawford rumor has any validity.

    i would say it doesn’t have much.

  180. hmmm November 11th, 2007 at 11:39 pm

    “Cashman’s shortsightedness will be responsible for the situation. His hisitation to sign Posada and Rivera before this season has shown how “cash efficient” this GM is.”

    and if Posada got hurt, he’d look like a genius.

    armchair GMing is so easy when you have 20-20 hindsight.

  181. GreenBeret7 November 11th, 2007 at 11:39 pm

    Who, Rivera did not have “a season of injury” in 2006. He had a slight forearm strain, and was DL’d from 1-21 September, although he was ready to go in less than two weeks. In his final tuneups for the post seasom, 4 games, 4 innings, 4 hits, 0 runs, 6 strikeouts, and one inning in the playoffs.. 1 inning, 1 hit. Hardly an injury riddled season, with 34 saves and an ERA of 1.80.

  182. Phil November 11th, 2007 at 11:42 pm

    do you realize how citing the fact that he was only injured in “September” of last year makes the Yanks’ point?

  183. NOsada November 11th, 2007 at 11:52 pm

    Yes, please resign with the Yankees. I don’t want him in Queens!1

  184. CaptainsCorner November 12th, 2007 at 12:10 am

    Yeah lets trade our whole farm system for 1 hitter. The Marlins are obviously thinking big but sorry Cash isn’t that stupid. (from si.com)

    Specifically from the Yankees, it is believed the Marlins seek either Chamberlain or Hughes, plus outfielder Melky Cabrera, outfield prospect Jose Tabata and a fourth prospect. Meanwhile, the Yankees are telling people they would not consider parting with their two best pitching prospects in a deal for anyone other than Minnesota Twins ace Johan Santana.

  185. whoa November 12th, 2007 at 12:13 am

    DO NOT trade Hughes or Joba for ANYONE!

  186. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 12th, 2007 at 12:16 am

    The day Cash trades Joba or Phil is the day I call for his head on a gold platter.

    The day Cash trades Ian or Melky I’ll settle for silver, but only just.

  187. pat November 12th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Mike Francesa on Miked-up is saying he thinks Yanks will go to around 4/$58M for Jorge and 3/$45M for Mariano. I’ll be glad when they are back but that sounds a little high to me.

  188. TXYankee November 12th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    Peter,

    I think you’re really stretching it when you allege that you haven’t bashed ARod for opting out and seeking more money, but I’m not about to go looking for quotes to dispute it, so I’ll give you that one. However, when you say you’re only criticizing him for what he’s said all year and for not talking to the Steinbrenners, I think that’s just another example of your lack of objectivity on the subject of ARod. He never once said this year that he wouldn’t opt out. He was asked many times, and he always said he’d address it after the season. Yes, he said he loved NY and loved being a Yankee, but that is a far cry from a promise not to opt out. He could have meant it (and in fact still could mean it), but due to CASHMAN’s and the Yankees’ decision and/or negotiating ploy, he might not be back. Everyone has bought into and given the Yankees a free pass for their decision to not negotiate if he opts out. If ARod had accepted the Yankees preferred framework for the negotiations, it would mean playing by their rules and losing the chance to receive market value after a career year. He had no obligation to do so.

    As for not calling the Steinbrenners back, clearly they were trying to go around Boras, and players hire agents for a reason. People are getting all indignant now about returning phone calls, but it’s not about manners, it’s about business and negotiating tactics. Boras has always made it clear that he will talk money with teams, without the clients around. You have done a LOT of bashing over what should be viewed as standard business negotiations and tactics, if ,in fact, this is all you’re really criticizing him for. Get over it already and recognize that his decisions with regard to his opt out were made based on his and Boras’ beliefs about what could get him the most money. You have no problem with Posada and Rivera doing what they can to maximize their income, and anyone with any pretense to objectivity shouldn’t have a problem with ARod doing the same.

  189. raymagnetic November 12th, 2007 at 12:36 am

    There is no way in hell the Rays are trading Crawford in a 3 way trade which nets the Yanks Ben Sheets. Who would the Rays get in return? Phil Hughes?

    Carl Crawford is worth at least 2 Ben Sheets alone.

  190. Rocco November 12th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    FYI… i know Capuano personally… He was good in 2006 (He made the All Star game). He stunk last year because of injuries. He has surgery a few weeks ago and can still be good. He’s young. But i’m not sure how he’d do in a big market.

  191. Phil November 12th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    Yanks flat out aren’t trading Hughes or Joba. They’re gonna be around for awhile.

  192. whoa November 12th, 2007 at 2:22 am

    “Mike Francesa on Miked-up is saying he thinks Yanks will go
    to around 4/$58M for Jorge and 3/$45M for Mariano. ”

    That would be incredibly dumb for a team that won’t pay for the best player in MLB.

  193. Gotta go to Co (rdero) November 12th, 2007 at 3:03 am

    The Yanks don’t need Rivera. They should sign Francisco Cordero to be the new closer. It’s time to move on.

    I looked at all 30 of Rivera’s 2007 saves and he was, quite frankly, crap compared to past years as follows:

    Allowed a baserunner in 19 of his 30 saves.

    Had 6 bad saves (to me a save where a closer allows two or more baserunners via hit and/ or walk) and blew 6 saves for a 5 out of 6 success rate which is garbage for a dozen save situations where he was bad.

    Put a man on base via hit and/ or walk in 21 of 31 non-save games thus put a man on base via hit and/ or walk in 40 of his 68 games.

    These are not the numbers of a dominant closer who deserves 3 or 4 years, they are the numbers of a fading once-great the Yanks would be foolish to sign for 3 or 4 more years.

    Cordero, on the other hand, was 42 for 48 in save attempts (he blew as many saves as Rivera but had a dozen more saves). He didn’t allow a baserunner in 26 of his 42 saves, so he allowed a baserunner in 16 saves, 3 less than Mo with a dozen more saves. He had 8 bad saves (again, at least 2 baserunners allowed via hit and/ or walk), but only 2 more than Rivera. He struck out 86 batters in 63.3 IP to Mo’s 74 in 71.3. Mo had better control (12 BB to Cordero’s 18 BB), but he allowed way more hits (68 in 71.3 IP to Cordero’s 52 in 63.3). Cordero’s ERA was slightly lower than Mo’s (2.98 to 3.15) attributable to being hammered 5 times to Mo’s times and pitching fewer innings.

    Both finished 58 games, had 4 losses, and served up 4 homeruns. Rivera had only 2 more appearances than Cordero. Rivera will turn 38 years old on 11/29 while Cordero will turn 33 next 5/11. Cordero saved 49 and 37 games for 2004 and 2005 Texas, so he’s demonstrated he could be dominant in the A.L.

    In conclusion, Cordero is a better closer than Rivera at this point in time thus should be signed for 3 years @ $11M/yr. = $33M. Where’s Mo gonna go? He’s publicly said he’d never sign with Boston, but they have Paplebon. He’s not signing with Kansas City, Texas, or Tampa Bay who suck. Seattle, Minnesota, Toronto, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Oakland have closers (Putz, Nathan, Ryan, F.Rodriguez, Jenks, and Street, respectively). Cleveland has Joe Borowski as their closer and needs to re-sign C.C. Sabathia, so they wouldn’t go for Rivera. The only A.L. teams I could see him signing with are Detroit and Baltimore, but I could see Detroit balking on giving him 3 or 4 years and Baltimore reluctant to giving him that cuz their closer Chris Ray is out for 2008 i.e. do they want another closer on the d.l. if Rivera gets hurt?

  194. Gotta go to Co (rdero) November 12th, 2007 at 3:13 am

    Re: Detroit. I don’t think they’d give him 3 or 4 years because they’d probably ask themselves “Why would the Yanks let this guy go?” and not want to find out, so actually, Rivera would have no takers in the A.L.

    If Rivera signs with an N.L. team, the A.L. breathes a collective sigh of relief and tries to go at least 9-6 against his team in interleague play so he has at most only 6 save opportunties against them. The Yanks would most likely face Rivera in a game or two depending on how they do vs. his team in interleague.

  195. Frankie D. November 12th, 2007 at 8:02 am

    This week should be the start of some action. If by the end of the week Jorge, Mo, and Molina are in the fold, it’s a good start. The catching and closer situations are secured.
    After that, move on and sensibly deal for either Miguel Tejada or Scott Rolen for 3rd base. Pursue some middle relief and get the 1st base logjam ironed out.

  196. ellen November 12th, 2007 at 8:22 am

    Pete:
    Totally off-topic. On that warm afternoon (that seems about a million years ago now) when Roger Clemens stood up at the Stadium to announce his triumphant return, there was some mention of “something” that Steinbrenner told him that he would reveal after the season was over. I haven’t heard a whisper about it since. Did I miss it?

  197. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 8:29 am

    UtilityMan _ Phil will be wearing 65 next year.

    Posada means it when he says he wants to stay a Yankee. Unlike A-fraud.

  198. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 8:38 am

    Short video of Jorge from last night.

    http://blogs.msg.com/gameon/20.....nut-1.html

  199. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 8:42 am

    Thanks for claifying that Phil. I got confused when I read the post article.

  200. tony larusa November 12th, 2007 at 8:44 am

    WOAH – i rooted for a-rod all season. But i am not investing 350 mil (which i think is what he required to talk to our team)

    We cant lose rivera – to me it would be like losing jeter…

  201. DMan November 12th, 2007 at 8:45 am

    Hopefully he signs in the next day or so..

    I’m sure him and his agents will be smarter than that though..

    They’ll wait until tomorrow and recieve formal offers from other teams, and the Yankees will have to bid back higher.

  202. B November 12th, 2007 at 9:04 am

    Don’t know if you guys saw this, but here’s more proof that Melky Cabrera’s defense in CF is horribly overrated.

    http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023939.php

  203. whozat November 12th, 2007 at 9:13 am

    “Don’t know if you guys saw this, but here’s more proof that Melky Cabrera’s defense in CF is horribly overrated.”

    So…he gets to all the balls they think he should get to and has a WAY above average arm for the position.

    Gosh, that’s terrible.

  204. tony larusa November 12th, 2007 at 9:18 am

    He as some raw skill – can probably be coached into a better CF’er

    I love that arm -

    That chart did not take into account his dancing skill (like when him and robinson bust a move)

  205. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 9:21 am

    November and blog sites like these are the place for crazy trade proposals. Get over it!!! I’m sure Pete, and more importantkly his bosses, are just happy that there are people on here using this as a forum for discussion of the Yankees. Who cares who gets traded for who, IN THEORY!

    Crazier trades have happened than Hughes, Kennedy, Duncan and Melky fo Johan…. uhmmm, for example, Heath Slocum for Varitek and Lowe in 1997?

    Tell me, was the ceiling THAT HIGH on freakin’ Carl Pavano and Tony Amrnas jr when the Sox sent them to the Expos for Pedro in 1998? Were Mr Pavano and Armas the next Schilling and Johnson duo?

    Certain GM’s sight, zoom in, target and attack certain traits in players. For example, as much as I love him, it has long been rumored that Cano and Melky are out all night partying in NYC, and to prove it, people have closley studied there day vs. night splits.

    Maybe the GM of the Twins, a classy oprganization, upon hearing that, decided he doesn’t want someone like Cano…
    Different teams value different traits. With the Yankees, obviously, over the last seven years, CHARACTER has had nothing to do with who they sign, but how many longballs they can hit, right? Like Giambi, A-Rod or Sheffield had the clubhouse presence of Tino, Paulie or Scotty…

    Look at what Billy Beane values in players… OBP… A few years ago, he tried to trade Nick Swisher for Kevin Youkilis the so-called “Greek God of Walks and OBP” , even though he’s Jewish and not Greek. SWISHER for Youk ?
    Seems crazy now. Or how about the infamous trade by Steve Phillips, anyone thats on here shouldn’t have to hear that one again, we all know it by heart!
    Trade proposals this time of year are supposed to be fun.

    Unless someone is making ye’ ol’ standby ‘foolass’ trade proposals of (lets see how bad of one I can do!) “A three way, Yankees send out Damon and Bruney to Indians for CC Sabathia and Grady Sizemore, Indians send Twins hot dog vendor from bleacher seats, Kenny Lofton, and a bucket of balls to the Twins, and they send Joe Mauer and Johan to the NYY!”

    So take it easy. If I want to offer Hughes, Kennedy, Duncan and Melky for Johan, so be it. Unless its Brian Cashman on here thats getting mad at me, seriously, what do you care? Just don’t respond… rather than get all worked up and make your self look like a no-social-life-sabermetric nerd

  206. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 9:30 am

    Hey Raymagnetic-

    i live in Maine and its harvest season, so I am smoking some pretty good shizzle. Thanks for asking !!!!

  207. B November 12th, 2007 at 9:30 am

    “So…he gets to all the balls they think he should get to and has a WAY above average arm for the position.

    Gosh, that’s terrible.”

    Well he didn’t get to all the balls he should have, and he’s not getting to all the balls elite CFers are. He’s not as good defensively as a lot of people around here believe.

  208. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 9:31 am

    B:

    I checked out the link you provided. On the ranking, I noticed that Melky is only 3 behind Aaron Rowand, while being 3 ahead of Vernon Wells, 4 ahead of Grady Sizemore, and well ahead of BJ Upton, Mark Kotsay and Nick Swisher.

    That ranking interestingly also has Damon ranked only 4 behind Andrew Jones, 1 behind Beltran and 6 ahead of Torii Hunter.

    So, whatever the value of this analysis really is, it doesn’t prove “Melky Cabrera’s defense in CF is horribly overrated.”

  209. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 9:34 am

    Mybe thats why Duncan, Melky, Hughes and Kennedy sounded liek a good deal for Johan. !!!

    Personally, Johan’s season last year scarred me into giving thema whole lot. And, the Indians OWNED him, and if the are going to be a contender for the next few years, we want an ace that can beat them.

    Peavey? From the NL, been burned too many times by NL pitchers, Kevin Brown, Randall, J Wright, P-p-p-p-p-Avano, etc.

    Believe it or not, I’d rather make a run at Scotty Kazir or Dan Harne than Johan. Call me crazy… But thats my opion. Both are locked in for 3 years, and Haren makes something like 4.5, 5, and 7 over the next 3, with a club option for a fourth year at 10!

    But, again, with what I’m burning, what do I know!?!?!?!?

  210. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 9:36 am

    As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. If Twain were alive today he would say that “Seamheads cannot be left alone with numbers or sharp objects. On second thought, just take away the numbers.”

  211. DMan November 12th, 2007 at 9:37 am

    Shamus-

    While I don’t agree with the way some people comment, you’ve got to accept that it’s going to happen..

    I mean thats what we’re here to do.. Discuss and debate the team and the organization and such.

    And a lot of us here are very attached to our farm system. You’re going to catch some heat if you’re putting them out on the trading block..

    Personally to me, the Yankees spent 6 years or so trading left and right for superstars, and it didn’t pan out the way they wanted. Now they’ve sort of dedicated themslevs to a different approach, and I think thats good. Now they need to stick with it. I just don’t think its worth selling the future.

    You can’t just expect people not to comment on a blog post you know?

  212. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 9:38 am

    I like Melky b/c he is cheap, and he plays with desire. Anyone remember Bernie Williams first few seasons out in CF, they almost traded him away in multi difft trades, for Larry Walker, then again almost for David Wells,….

    Give him some time. Its been two and a half years since that inside the aprk HR at Fenway.

    BUT, if Melky can net us a Kazmir, Haren, or Johan, or some AL proven pitcher, poss a CC, then I say trade him. Especially during a free agency when the only good players are CFers… Hunter, Rowand, Jones, Cameron, etc…

  213. Todd Drew November 12th, 2007 at 9:44 am

    murphydog,
    I like the Twain reference. You should write a newspaper column.

  214. yanks61 November 12th, 2007 at 9:47 am

    Hmmm,

    I’m addressing the following to you because you come across as one of this blog’s most astute and reasonable people. I’ve learned a lot ‘listening in.’I'd appreciate knowing your views.

    The question of a luxury tax has been brought up that, in addition to Arod’s starting price of 350 million, would bring the total cost to the Yanks to something close to half a billion dollars! Do you know if those figures are accurate? If so, could it be that the Yanks have chosen the route they have with Boras because they simply were never prepared to sign Alex? Personally, I’m just as happy, because the idea of spending so much on a single player is abhorent to me. I believe that I’ve read that what Alex is asking for is something like 30% more than any player in baseball is getting. He’s an enormously talented player, as we all know, but 30% more talented than anyone else? Also, Arod setting a new record salary of this magnitude just raises the bar that much more for every player in the game. Frankly, I could care less about the owners, but doesn’t this just risk making going to a baseball game harder and harder than ever for a family? And when families can no longer go to games – or rarely can go – doesn’t that begin to lose baseball it’s young fan base, its future?

    As A kid in the 50′s and early sixties, I went to Yankee Stadium numerous times. I could afford it on very little money. Free agency has obviously changed all that. I know there’s no turning back the clock, I know that baseball is setting attendance records and making more money than ever doing it, but where is the breaking point? This is not just the Arod situation, it’s a potential problem in general with unrestricted salaries. I certainly don’t want to go back to the old days, but it does seem to me that a little more balance has to be factored back into player/owner relations for the sake of baseball’s long term future (not for the business person/owner’s future, but for the game itself.)

    Is there any way this can be done, or is this just going to continue heading in the wrong direction until it becomes unsustainable, at which point millions of fans will have already be lost?

    What are your thoughts?

  215. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 9:49 am

    2007 Johann Santana (age 29 in 2008):

    7th lowest in AL ERA
    3d lowest opponent’s batting average
    1st in fewest base runners per 9 innings
    2d in strikeouts
    1st in HR allowed (nobody’s perfect)
    3d in % pitches in the strike zone
    5th in most pickoffs
    7th in lowest stolen base % allowed
    3d in strikeouts per 9
    1st in lowest opponents OBP
    10th lowest opponents OPS
    6th lowest batting avg v. lefties
    10th lowest batting average against righties
    4th lowest batting average against with RISP
    4th lowest OBP against leadoff hitter
    4th highest strikeouts to walk ratio

  216. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 9:51 am

    DMan-

    You read me all wrong bro. And please, light me up with the comments on my proposals. I worked for a newspaper as an assistnt sports editor covering the Portland Sea Dogs up here in Maine for two years, so I can take the criticism, trust me.

    But someone saying or getting negative on someone, questioning there fan-hood, so to speak, for a trade proposal is silly.

    And I’m the same way as you. Lets look back, shall we:

    Wasn’t Giambi supposed to be the icing on the cake in 2002, a cherry on top of the cake, an all-but guarantee we would win the 02 WS ?

    So to prep for 03, what did we do? Run out and get Hideki Matsui (who I like) and drastically overpaid for Jose Contreras…

    Then after 03, after getting humiliated by the Marlins and the team all but disbanded with Clemens and Pettite leaving, we ran out and got a bunch of power, Sheffield and A-Rod, not too mention Kevin Brown and Jay Vazquez. Those additions didn’t work either.

    Then the Red Sox showed us in 2004 that we needed more pitching, so the Yankees overpaid for Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano, and over-traded for Randy.

    I could go on and on, but the point is, I agree with you: !!! All the high priced free agent signings and over-trades haven’t worked, so I say we go a year with the farm.

    But, if you can get a top of the line starter, an ACE, who is A) Young and B) most importantly, AL proven, then you get him.

    I love Joba, can’t wait to watch him as a starter… But who is to say Kennedy, Hughes, Horne, Betances, Gardner, Tabata, Jackson, Gonzalez, etc. willw ork out. They say for every ten can’t-miss prospects, 1.5 become super stars and less than 3 become everyday MLB players.

    But I love the farm, I say we give kids like Melky, Cnao, Duncan, and the Lethal Weapon 3 a chance to play, because as teh last seven years have proven, nothing else is working!

  217. J. V. - Yonkers November 12th, 2007 at 9:53 am

    I’m with Shamus. Given some run support, Scott Kazmir is a better option than Santana for the long haul. He has the talent to be a consistent 16-18 game winner every year and wouldn’t require the amount of talent to get like Santana would.
    He about to be arbitration eligible and the Rays don’t like to pay as their history will show.

  218. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 9:59 am

    Whoa, whoa… At the same time, I don’t think Kazmir would be CHEAPER than Johan, I just think he’d be the better invenstment,, long term.

    Remember, Johan is a free agent, at 28/29, in one year, after ’08.

    Kazmir has three full seasons left before hitting free agency, which means whatever team gets him would prob have to pay out the ear.

    And you know Tampa Bay doesn’t need an OF like the Melk Man, they are already stacked at OF.

    JUST A GUESS, but to get Kazmir, I would say it would hurt the ol’ wallet— badly. Probably cost Hughes, Kennedy, Betances, maybe Farnsworth with all but $1 on the final year of his contract paid off, poss even Duncan, maybe even Gardner or Tabata.

    They would eat us alive!

    But I would rather have Kaz than Jo. Unfortunately, I live in Maine, so I see a lot of Sox games out at bars.. Anytime they face Kazmir, its ugly. HE OWNS THE SOX!

    Its like me trying to face a Tim Wakefield knuckleball!

  219. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 10:00 am

    Todd Drew:

    Thanks, but tilting at the windmills here will suffice. You on the other hand have already made the jump with your blog. Stay at it.

  220. DMan November 12th, 2007 at 10:02 am

    I guess I’m just torn as to if it’s worth it just yet to go trading for Santana.

    He’s not happy with the Twins, so theres nothing set in stone saying he’ll sign an extension or resign with them after this season. He was pretty upset after they traded away their starting second baseman this past season.

    I know the rookies aren’t proven, but they can compete.

    Come the all-star break, we might be hearing that Johan wants out of the twin cities. Maybe by then we know what we’re selling in terms of the prospects we offer up for him.

    And also, a lot of this really depends on what Pettitte does.. He fills in a huge spot in that rotation..

  221. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Kazmir 2007

    9th in ERA
    5th in most games started
    6th highest in wild pitches
    1st in strikeouts
    3d in walks allowed
    5th in most pitches per start
    3d in caught stealing off
    7th in pickoffs
    2d in strikeouts per 9

    In the talent pool, both Santana and Kazmir stand out as diamonds from the rest. But even diamonds are of different quality compared to one another, some with imperfections visible to the eye, some with flaws that are almost invisible.

    When compared to Santana’s numbers above, Scott obviously has significantly lower peripherals. And neither he nor Santana were in the top ten in run support per 9.

    Kazmir is a “statured” lefty, to borrow from my favorite wordsmith, Scott Boras. He may be available, but he should be MUCH much cheaper than Santana. And be sure to do your due diligence on that shoulder.

  222. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 10:22 am

    Re: Kazmir’s peripherals v,. Santant’s peripherals

    Scott’s are “lower” as in “worse” than Santana’s

  223. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 10:25 am

    I think what posters here forget is the goal isn’t to get Santana, its to get an ace type pitcher. A few of them will be available for money after 2008 if Santana is a no and by trade we can always get a cheaper option, IMO Kazmir would cost less and if not we go get a Willis or Sheets, again an ace type pitcher to use in the rotation is what we’re looking for, nowhere does it say we only want Johan Santana and will break the bank.

  224. DMan November 12th, 2007 at 10:27 am

    If we try to get anybody from Tampa, it should be Crawford..

    That’s probably beyond a pipe-dream.. But hey, they need pitching? We’ve got pitching to trade right?

  225. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 10:35 am

    we’re not trading SP for a hitting if it would be anything it would be for Kazmir

  226. Chris NY November 12th, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Am I missing something, or is it illegal (or against the rules at least) for Jorge to “talk to the Mets” today? I thought he couldn’t talk to any other team until after the Yankee’s exclusive window? Or can other teams talk to him, just not negotiate with him or formally offer any contract?

  227. Trish November 12th, 2007 at 10:36 am

    yanks 61

    I know you asked the question of hmmm but the misrepresentation of how luxury tax works is a pet peeve of mine.

    Salary threshold for 2008 for the tax is $155 million. The Yankees would be taxed 40% for every dollar they go over that. The team payroll is taxed, not individual players.

    Hypothetically, the Marlins could pay A-Rod $40 million dollars a year and not be charged luxury tax. It’s because their team payroll doesn’t approach the limit of $155 million for competitive balance tax. The Yankees on the other hand could sign a new player for $10 million dollars and they could potentially cost the club $14 million because of the total of the rest of the team’s payroll.

    The numbers look more dramatic if applied to one guys salary, especially if that guy is A-Rod but it just as easily could be applied to anyone elses too. Just like baseball, it takes 25 guys.

  228. TurnTwo November 12th, 2007 at 10:38 am

    Jorge is free to talk to any team he wants (like any other to-be FA)… teams just cannot officially offer $$ figures to him until midnight tonight.

  229. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 10:42 am

    Chris they are allowed to talk to other teams, they just can’t talk money. Which is a silly rule, becuase how could they not talk money.

  230. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Chris they are allowed to talk to other teams, they just can’t talk money. Which is a silly rule, becuase how could they not talk money.

    *Also the Yankees should remind Jorge, that Pedro is on the Mets. Another reason I don’t think the Mets are that big of a player in this. I can’t see Jorge catching Pedro.

  231. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Am I missing something, or is it illegal (or against the rules at least) for Jorge to “talk to the Mets” today? I thought he couldn’t talk to any other team until after the Yankee’s exclusive window? Or can other teams talk to him, just not negotiate with him or formally offer any contract?

    Jorge has a very , very generous contract offer from the Yankees if he speaks w/ the Mets and doesn’t choose to sign by the end of the day w/ us, it would be him hinting that he wants to leave. There shouldn’t be an issue I really don’t know why he wants to speak w/ the Mets, the Mets will offer a bigger contract than us and probably add a year or two to it, if anything it’s strategy and he’s trying to draw his price tag up by putting them against the clock. And one thing we’ve learned from this new regime don’t try to bluff them it won’t end how you want it

  232. Chris NY November 12th, 2007 at 10:46 am

    Good point on Pedro, Jennifer.

  233. raymagnetic November 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am

    There is no way in heaven the Rays are trading Scott Kazmir to the Yankees.

  234. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 10:56 am

    I have mixed feelings on this one. We need Posada for 2008, but I’m afraid that we’ll regret giving him anything more than 2-3 years.

  235. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 11:05 am

    Any other catcher on the market you have to give them 3 years minimum. Do you want to give 3 years to Paul Laduca? Or some flash in the pan kid for Colorodo? Who out ther would you give 3 years to?

  236. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 11:14 am

    I agree, Jennifer, we don’t have much choice. Posada has the Yanks by the cajones right now. But, given his age, I’m afraid that he doesn’t have much left in him, at least behind the plate.

    I think that it’s almost as crucial that we re-sign Molina. Hughes’s splits are significantly better when pitching to Molina, plus he seems to call a better game than Po. We also need him to spell Po for about 30-40 games to absorb some of Po’s eventual decline.

  237. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 11:16 am

    nobody.. ideally it’s not smart give mid 30′s catchers more than 2 yrs. Laduca wouldn’t get more than 2 yrs. and Torrealba wouldn’t recieve more than 2 yrs.

  238. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:16 am

    I would strongly advise against going after Ben Sheets and / or Chris Capuano. Sheets is an injury-plagued Pavano waiting to happen.

    If I want an ace pitcher to anchor my staff, I’d go after (in order) 1, Santana, 2, CC, 3, Kazmir…

    Trends? All are lefty’s, which fare well at YS, and all are AL proven. The only RHP I might like from the AL is King Felix, Fausto and Verlander, poss Haren too.

    A few years ago I’d have traded Jeter for the chance to get a pitcher like Carlos Zambrano, Roy Oswalt or Jake Peavey.

    But now I am scarred to death of NL ‘aces’. Maybe its b/c of the crap train running trhough thye Bronx the last five years, Wright, Pavano, Johnson, Brown, Vazquez. etc etc.

    But then you look at someone like Beckett, or even…. my arch nemesis…Schilling…. both NL pitchers who excelled in the AL, after an adjustment at least for Beckett. But Schill won over 20 games in 04, his first year w/ Beantown.

    Does NL ‘aces’ scare anyone else like a Britney Spears STD test?

  239. Buddy Biancalana November 12th, 2007 at 11:18 am

    Jorge has to use all the leverage he has, this will be his last big payday, besides his agents are advising him on the process. It doesn’t matter how much money he has made in the past either, it’s just part of negotiating in baseball.

    Agreed raymagnetic-

    No way Kazmir is going to the Yankees, their best shot is Santana either via trade or FA in 2008. Can’t imagine not wanting Santana over Kazmir anyway.

  240. Johan the Great November 12th, 2007 at 11:19 am

    Whats really the difference in 3/48 or 4/54. Its only 6 million more and you spread out the money over four years instead of way overpaying for 3. He’ll probably be a Giambi-esque player in the 4th year but it won’t be an albatross contract like Giambi’s

  241. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 12th, 2007 at 11:20 am

    No way the Indians are parting with CC or Fausto, though I’d welcome Fausto with open arms.

  242. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:21 am

    Jesus, just heard ol’ reliable Sage Steele on Cold Pizza or whatever the hell its called now, saying Jorge wants 5 years, not four !

    Time to go our seperate ways. Three years for $40 M? Okay… Four years for $56M? Yikes…. five years , $60-$75 M… See you at teh All Star Game.

    The Yankees are just about to get out of the last of their bad signings, why start a new batch. We all know that Giambi, Mussina, Abreu, Fanrsworth, Pavano, etc. all come off the books next year and the year after that, so so Damon and Matsui.

    Lets not start doling out more ugly, way too long, way too backloaded contracts to PTP (past their prime) players!

    I’m scared we’ll thgrow 5 years, $60 at Lowell just to SPITE the Sox. But in truth, in yera four of that deal, they will be laughing at us, just like Damon.

  243. DMan November 12th, 2007 at 11:22 am

    If the Yankees don’t sign Posada, then you go out and sign the best pitch and game calling catcher.. Forget offense at that point.

    Just find a catcher who is going to help all our rookie pitchers.

  244. Matt November 12th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Jorge and his agents have to realize that in a 3+ year deal, he will be less productive in the 3rd or 4th year and be more of a mentor to Francisco Cervelli or whoever his replacement will be.
    As it is, the days of him catching much more than 125 games are all over.
    It’s not far fetched to think that in 2009, he and Jeter will be sharing 1st base duties to stretch as much as possible out of their careers unless Mark Teixeira is signed as a free agent at the end of 2008.

  245. Buddy Biancalana November 12th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    CC is a FA in 2008

  246. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 12th, 2007 at 11:24 am

    I would not list the 100 RBI Abreu there with the bad signings, but that’s just me.

  247. Bronxie Brenda November 12th, 2007 at 11:30 am

    Within hours after signing Jorge, Cashman should go full bore after Jose Molina. To lose him would be unforgiveable.

  248. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 11:30 am

    I don’t believe Jorge wants a 5 year deal. Espn is just trying to fan the flames. Total bs.

  249. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:31 am

    Rebecca, you are right. And, he wasn’t a signing, he was a trade.

    However, he is a symbol of the Yankees of the early to mid 00′s.

    Did he drive in 100 RBI last year? Yes.

    Would he had done that in any other lineup than the NYY lineup? prob not.

    Were people ready to run him out of town up until mid June when hs bat came around? yes.

    Would a lot of people rather see, say, Eric Brynes (who isn’t available, BUT isn’t afraid of the RF wall either and is a great clubhouse guy) or Aaron Rowand, a similar player to Byrnes’ tenacious style, in right field making 3/4 of the money Abreu makes.

    Who would you rather have?

    Abreu $16M?
    Rowand $10-12M? (a guess, of course)
    or
    Byrnes $10M (jsut signed a 5 year, $50M extension w/ Ariz)

    I hate giving guys in their 30s much years and much $$$. Any team that gives A-Rod $30M a year for 12 years, heck even 10 or 8 years (he is 32!) is nuts!

    IMO

  250. Marcy November 12th, 2007 at 11:35 am

    Mike Francesa said Jorge was offered $58M for 4 years from Cashman – let’s see Omar try to beat that; it’s a lot of money but more importantly it’s the 4 years he’s looking for. I have to say Jorge did not look real happy at the the Knicks game.
    Thanks for the “Safe at Home” blog.

  251. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 12th, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Shamus–I like Bobby. He had a slow start, but he’s got arguably the best eye on the team. His arm’s not the greatest in the world, but it’s eons better than Matsui’s or Damon’s, or even (heresy, I know) Bernie’s.

    Yes, we’re paying him a lot, but the Yankees can get away with it. After all, $16 M isn’t nearly as much as some of the other guys!

  252. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:37 am

    Sage steele is hot though, rather watch her than that Dana Jacobsen.

    I bet Dana can’t come to Maine from Nov. through Dec. for fear of being shot, mistaken as a Moose.

    Damn, she dwarfs Jay “I used to be the weatherman for KTBT”(Tampa Bay local news) Crawford.

    Why don’t we teach Dana how to pitch and sign her. Think about it, she’s roughly the size of CC Sabathia. Talk about intimidation….

  253. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 11:38 am

    If the Yankees don’t sign Posada, then you go out and sign the best pitch and game calling catcher.. Forget offense at that point.

    Just find a catcher who is going to help all our rookie pitchers.

    If Jorge asks for 5, the Yanks should say adios. Even 4 is way too much at his age. Molina could carry us through defensively until someone becomes available. That’s why Cashman should make re-signing Molina a priority. Some pitchers, including youngsters like Hughes, seem to do better with catchers not named Posada. Hughes’s numbers were significantly better when pitching to Molina.

    It’s no secret that some pitchers have a problem with the way Posada calls a game and how he presents his target, i.e. framing the pitches. He’s also terrible at blocking the plate.

  254. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 11:40 am

    And it is no secret that one of the best pitchers in the game loved Jorge and wanted him to catch 300.

  255. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 11:41 am

    I want nothing to do with Eric Byrnes, he doesnt get on base as much as bobby. You like running into the fence, then he breaks his wrist and then what? He cant run into a fence for a year. I much rather have bobby

  256. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 11:42 am

    I have to say Jorge did not look real happy at the the Knicks game.

    gee I wonder why

  257. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:43 am

    Yeah, he’s got a good arm, and he sees a lot of pitches at the plate.

    But overall clubhouse guy? How do we know? Is he an active, teaching the youngsters tricks of the tarde, holding sermons the way Rivera, Pettitte and Clemens would do with young pitchers?

    Believe it or not, AND I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM, but Cano has said in numerous interviews that A-Rod showed him a lot about fielding and hitting.

    You just don’t hear that about Abreu…. or the Captain for that matter.

    And, he’s afraid of the wall and I, owining the MLB package from Direct TV, have watched almost every Yankees game for the last two years we’ve had him and I don’t EVER remeber seeing him uniform dirty or grass stained.

    Do you recall once this postseason not seeing Dustin Pedroia’s or Kevin Youkilis’ or Jacoby Ellsbury’s uniforms CLEAN?

    Those are the types of players I want— the guys that do everything they can in the field and grind out every at bat, the guys who clubhouse attendenta hate b/c they have the most dirty laundry.

    I’d take Pedrioa or Youk anytime on my team!!! Abreu doesn’t strike me that way…. But Rowand and Torii Hunter do…

  258. J-Dawg November 12th, 2007 at 11:43 am

    Sage Steele says that Jorge wants a five-year deal, but ESPN’s web site says that he is seeking a four-year deal. Sounds like they might need to get a few of their facts straight. Or maybe they will split the difference and announce that Jorge is seeking a four and a half-year deal. :)

  259. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    It’s no secret that some pitchers have a problem with the way Posada calls a game and how he presents his target, i.e. framing the pitches.”

    Really? I don’t recall Clemens being unable to get along with Po. You must be referring to two old and broken down divas, Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina. I think their frustration is more with themselves in not being able to pitch like they used to.

    But I’ll bite. Who else is in the category of “some pitchers”?

  260. B November 12th, 2007 at 11:49 am

    Eric Byrnes is a career 4th outfielder and nothing more. Why anyone would want him and his ridiculous contract on the Yankees is beyong me.

  261. BBB November 12th, 2007 at 11:49 am

    “It’s not far fetched to think that in 2009, he and Jeter will be sharing 1st base duties to stretch as much as possible out of their careers”

    Kinda gonna go off on a tangent here (since I’ve already said my piece about Jorge and how the Yanks need to give him whatever he wants) but I don’t think 1st is the place for Jeter in the future, I think 3rd is the place for him. I know his skills at SS are diminishing but he is still athletic and his abilities would be wasted at 1b. I see 1st as a future home for Matsui or Posada. I figure after we’re finally free of Giambi’s contract, one of those 2 will play 1st and the other will become the everyday DH.

    And the reason why I like a trade for someone like Beltre, Mora or Tejada who only have about 2 yrs on their contracts, is so that Jeter can move to 3rd when it becomes vacant. Then you hope Carmen Angelini pans out at SS; if he’s ready you bring him up, if not you use Gonzalez or sign a similarly defensive stopgap SS til Carmen is ready.

  262. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Wait.. I recall Farnsy having a tiff with Po. Po came out to see him and Farnsy turned his back on Jorge.

    Okay, so far “some pitchers” includes Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina and Kyle Farnsworth. Yup, says a lot about Po.

  263. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Umm, Mussina wasn’t always broken down. Add David Cone to the list as well. There is at least one other, but it escapes me right now. I’ll come back to you.

    And check Hughes’s splits when pitching to Posada and Molina.

  264. BBB November 12th, 2007 at 11:52 am

    Yeah I too was wondering about that comment re Jorge not looking happy at the Knicks game….it’s because the Knick suck, right? Hope thats it and nothing else like contract negotiations is bothering him!

  265. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 11:52 am

    I rahter have someone on my team that gets on base. See alot of pitches. Knows how to steel bases. Players on base=runs. Players giving sermons=nothing at all

  266. hmmm November 12th, 2007 at 11:52 am

    “If so, could it be that the Yanks have chosen the route they have with Boras because they simply were never prepared to sign Alex? ”

    yes, i think this is a possibility.

    “Frankly, I could care less about the owners, but doesn’t this just risk making going to a baseball game harder and harder than ever for a family? ”

    perhaps. but i don’t blame the players for this. players are free to ask for whatever they want. the owners are the ones who have to agree to pay them what they are asking for. if Hicks was willing to open the vault for Alex, how can we blame him for accepting it?

    “Is there any way this can be done, or is this just going to continue heading in the wrong direction until it becomes unsustainable, at which point millions of fans will have already be lost?

    What are your thoughts?”

    well, i’d imagine it will work like everything else: teams will charge as much as they can until demand subsides. as long as tickets are selling, there is little incentive for teams to lower prices. unfortunately, and this is where i agree with you, teams don’t really care if those dollars are coming from “regular” fans or from corporations buying tickets/luxury boxes.

    will this be detrimental in the long run? tough to say. the yankees keep raising ticket prices and every year they sell more tickets than the year before and draw higher TV ratings, despite not winning the WS in a long time.

    is it sustainable? i don’t know. it seems like it can be in a market like NY. in smaller markets, maybe not.

    in the long run, i would guess that baseball will be ok. it always is. maybe you will see a period of salary pullback in 3-4 years when some of these recent signing turn into albatrosses. m

    i don’t know. i generally see where you are coming from, and the new stadium is only going to make it worse. prices will be higher, parking will be outrageous, more seats will be in private boxes. sadly, this is the way of the world now. sports are big business. there really is not going back.

  267. ORORO November 12th, 2007 at 11:53 am

    oh yeah right……..Pedroia…..diver delux. A dirty uniform will make all the difference in the world. I can’t stand Puuuklis and Dustbin.

  268. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:53 am

    First of Byrnes just signed a five year extension with ARZ, so no fea Migames…

    Hoever, FYI:

    Byrnes:

    .286, 21 HR, 83 RBI, 103 R, 50 SB
    9 assists from OF, 4 errors, .984% fld

    Abreu:

    .283, 16 HR, 101 RBI, 123 R, 25 SB
    6 OF assists, 4 errors, .988% fld.

    Last year, Byrnes made $4.5M, while Aberu made $16M. I may not have gone to Harvard for business…but…

    Also, yes, Abreu had many more RBI and runs, however, compare who was hitting around Byrnes and who was hitting behind Abreu.

    Tony Clark vs. A-Rod. Who do you think will get you an opp to see some better pitches?

    Case closed.

  269. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 11:57 am

    Wait.. I recall Farnsy having a tiff with Po. Po came out to see him and Farnsy turned his back on Jorge.

    Okay, so far “some pitchers” includes Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina and Kyle Farnsworth. Yup, says a lot about Po.

    Them plus Cone (and at least another) don’t qualify as “some” to you?? It’s no secret that there have been reports of pitchers ( the infamous anonymous) questioning his game calling ability and the way he frames pitches. And when was ther last time you saw him block the plate when there was a close play at the plate?

    Or, maybe you just want to be an a** about this or pretend that you know better?

  270. raymagnetic November 12th, 2007 at 11:57 am

    Do you recall once this postseason not seeing Dustin Pedroia’s or Kevin Youkilis’ or Jacoby Ellsbury’s uniforms CLEAN?

    Those are the types of players I want— the guys that do everything they can in the field and grind out every at bat, the guys who clubhouse attendenta hate b/c they have the most dirty laundry.

    Really? I’m sorry but I’d take guys on my team who have CAREER OBP’s of .408 anyday.

    I’m going to keep saying this until I’m blue in the face but usually when you see guys diving all the time for balls it’s because they are out of position and they have to dive to make up for it.

  271. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 11:57 am

    Hmmmmm… help me out. You seem to be one of the most educated fans of baseball on here.

    Would you, in a heart-beat, if they were, hypothetically non-tendered, or even free agents, wouldn’t you even consider Pedrioa or Youk?

    They remind me of the late 90′s Yank with their style of play… gutsy and hard-nosed, like Knoblauch and Martinez in stature.

    If you don’t want guys like that on your team, ORORO, go watch the WNBA. You apparently don’t understand baseball.

    I’m off to work, gotta go run a bar, and talk sports while getting paid. Love my job ! See y’all tonight, hold down the fort hmmm….

  272. long time November 12th, 2007 at 11:58 am

    judging from the pictures of his wife he should have a big smile, he was an over achiever in that department.

  273. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    If I’m not mistaken, during Pettitte I, he expressed that he wanted Girardi behind the plate.

    Still doesn’t qualify as “some” to you, I suppose. :rolleyes:

  274. hmmm November 12th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    “Who would you rather have?

    Abreu $16M?
    Rowand $10-12M? (a guess, of course)
    or
    Byrnes $10M (jsut signed a 5 year, $50M extension w/ Ariz)”

    Abreu, no question. it’s funny that people have spent this entire thread arguing against giving Posada 4 or 5 years, yet you fail to grasp the value of a one year commitment to Abreu.

    i would much rather have Abreu on a 1 year deal than Rowand on a 5 year deal.

  275. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    I think 1st base is the future home of Mark Teixeira, unless he is traded this year and/or inked to a long term contract.

    When Matsui’s contract is up after ’09, they’ll let him walk. Until then, depending on what becomes of Melky, Matsui plays some LF and DHs in ’08 and then plays mostly DH in ’09 in place of Giambi, (whose last season is fast upon us). Matsui can hit, but H’s gotten to the point where he scares me with the glove and his routes to the ball.

    Maybe Po sees some time at 1st, but he’s really not the 1st baseman solution.

  276. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    B, you idiot, I’m not advocating the Yankees go get Byrnes via trade and his ‘now-silly’ $50M deal, but that TYPE OF PLAYER AND MENTALITY IS WHAT HAS BEEN MISSING FROM THIS TEAM FOR ALMOST SEVEN YEARS!

    Out…

  277. BBB November 12th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    Shamus, you didn’t include Abreu/Byrnes’ OBP and BB stats! While I don’t really know what kind of eye Byrnes has, something tells me those numbers would favor Abreu.

    I don’t really get why people are so down on Bobby. I have some issues with him too, many of which have already been cited here, and he’s definitely not my favorite player on the team but just the mere fact that we only had to make a 1 year commitment to him, as opposed to the kind of commitment we would have had to make to Byrnes, makes Abreu more than worth it! Especially considering the OF prospects we have on the farm. If Eric Byrnes was blocking Action Jackson’s spot a year or 2 down the line, it would make me sad. With Abreu we won’t have that problem.

    Also, while he and Giambi in the 3-4 spots won’t equal him and A-Rod in the 3-4 spots, having those 2 sets of great eyes back to back (after already having had to deal with Damon in the leadoff spot) is definitely going to disturb many opposing pitchers. If Abreu and Giambi keep taking pitches eventually a pitcher will make a mistake that they can take advantage of.

  278. B November 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    First of all, that was a career year for Byrnes and he’s 32 now and entering the decline phase of his career. Second, you didn’t provide a single meaingful statistic.

  279. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    Ducky:

    Who caught Pettitte this year? Rolls eyes.

    And pal, when it comes to being a a**, you’ve shown great potential in your short time here. Keep up the good work.

  280. yanks61 November 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    Trish,

    Thanks for the help with that. In essence, because of the Yanks total payroll, for the Yanks to sign Alex, are we not still saying that that hypothetical 350 million is going to cost them another 140 million or close to half a billion dollars over the life of the contract?

    By the way, I think I can understand why the luxury tax is a pet peeve of yours!

  281. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 12th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    Can someone remind me who Hughes was pitching to when he had his no-hitter going, I can’t seem to recall.

    Maybe Jorge wasn’t happy because he was at a game to enjoy himself and had the media bothering him for an interview, which he gave so he’d be left alone. hMM can that be it.

  282. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    tell the Eric Byrnes movement to take a hike, ACTION JACKSON will take manhattan before he does

  283. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    thanks hmmmm.

    Its a no brainer

  284. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    And one more thing, Ducky:

    Cone last pitched for the Yanks in what year? Hhhhhhmmmm. Maybe Posada’s improved a little behind the plate since then.

  285. B November 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    “TYPE OF PLAYER AND MENTALITY IS WHAT HAS BEEN MISSING FROM THIS TEAM FOR ALMOST SEVEN YEARS!”

    4th outfielders? You think we haven’t won a World Series in 7 years because we stopped starting 4th outfielders?

  286. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    I agree to a point, it was wise to pick him up at one year, especially with our talent in the farm.

    But, again, getting out from under the huge contracts in one-two years will give this team the resources and flexibility to make a un at Big Tex for 1B, Johan and CC via free agency…

    Right now, that would not be possible. The NYY isn’t as rich as y’all think. According to Forbes, they have lost money every year since 2003.

    Now, I am late for work, luv ya guys, text me at 207-691-66MoRivera if anyone feels like debating this more…

  287. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    whoops I meant the bronx ..:D

  288. B November 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Or are we missing out on white guys that have grinder type reptuations because the media wants you to like them even though they’re not very good? Maybe we should get David Eckstein.

  289. El Comaduce November 12th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Abreu has a much better nick game.

    now the case is closed

  290. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    murphydog,

    My “short time” here has nothing to do with the fact that you pretend to know more about baseball and the Yanks than you actually do and that you can in fact be an a**.

  291. BBB November 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    Nobody has a better nickname than Action Jackson. Except maybe that brief period when Pete was calling Porcelain Pavano “The Connecticut Bulldog”…if only he had lived up to it!

  292. B November 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    “According to Forbes, they have lost money every year since 2003.”

    Forbes doesn’t include YES in the Yankees calculation, and none of the teams open their books to the public. It’s far from accurate and the Yankees are definitely not losing money.

  293. Brandon (I want Arod but fire Boras first, please land me a Kazmir) November 12th, 2007 at 12:11 pm

    BBB, don’t forget Nancy Drew :D

  294. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 12:11 pm

    yes, we should the all white grinder team to appease shamus:
    1b) Youk
    2b) pedrioa
    ss) eckstien
    3b) brosius
    of) byrns, erstad and rowand
    c) pat borders

    aint nobody gonna stop this team

  295. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    4th OF–? Apparently you never caught a single NL playoff game…

    Regardless, you are missing my point. I guess maybe, didn’t see who said it, they are right by saying the gutsy little white guy doing his best is a media concoction.

    I’ll stick to my guns and say I’d rather watch Byrnes crash into the wall for the ball than watch Abreu slow up when he gets to the warning track.

    And they took fences out years ago for padded walls, so I’m told.

    Word, B?

  296. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    And one more thing, Ducky:

    Cone last pitched for the Yanks in what year? Hhhhhhmmmm. Maybe Posada’s improved a little behind the plate since then.

    And one more thing, murphydog.

    Maybe Posada hasn’t improved his catching, particularly his game calling, pitch selection, blocking the plate or framing pitchers other than throwing runners out (only 2 yrs ago) ,thanks to Pena.

  297. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    And one more thing, Ducky:

    Cone last pitched for the Yanks in what year? Hhhhhhmmmm. Maybe Posada’s improved a little behind the plate since then.

    And one more thing, murphydog.

    Maybe Posada hasn’t improved his catching, particularly his game calling, pitch selection, blocking the plate or framing pitches other than throwing runners out (only 2 yrs ago) ,thanks to Pena.

  298. hmmm November 12th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    “Would you, in a heart-beat, if they were, hypothetically non-tendered, or even free agents, wouldn’t you even consider Pedrioa or Youk?”

    that depends, would i prefer Pedroia over Cano? no. Cano is the better player. would i take him on the team if the yankees did not have Cano? sure. he’s a decent player.

    would i want the Yankees to have Youkilis at 1B over their current options? of course.

    but wanting these guys has absolutely nothing to do with their “dirty uniforms”. i’d want them because they are talented players who get on base, field their positions, and occasionally hit the ball over the fence.

  299. long time November 12th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    That outfield has DL written all over it

  300. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    Migames, what you don’t know could fill a book. What do you want to see, a freaking allstar at every position? An OF of Torii, Andruw and Vlad?

    Come back down to Earth. There is a reason the Yankees of the 90′s won all those WS and skin color had nothing to do with it. Have you something against white athletes?

    And FYI, before I ran a successful sports bar, I was the assistant sports editor for two years at the Portland Press, covering the Sea Dogs, Pirates, some Sox stuff. So don’t try and measure your ‘shwartz’ against mine, bucco.

    Unlike you, I was paid to talk, write, eat and sleep baseball. Stay in your lane…

  301. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    “And FYI, before I ran a successful sports bar, I was the assistant sports editor for two years at the Portland Press, covering the Sea Dogs, Pirates, some Sox stuff. So don’t try and measure your ’shwartz’ against mine, bucco.”

    By your comments, im not surprised at all that you were a sports editor.

  302. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    Amen Hmmmm. Not that I want Pedrioa over Cano… But one can’t say that guys like them, grinders, don’t try on every play.

    I can’t say that about half these Yankees…. the Current ones.

    Off to work, someone punk smack Migames for me… Dooshbag!

    To think you and I have one thing in common (the Yankees) makes me sad to be a fan…

    Can’t we all jsut get along, to quote the reverend Jesse Jackson

  303. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    Amen Hmmmm. Not that I want Pedrioa over Cano… But one can’t say that guys like them, grinders, don’t try on every play.

    I can’t say that about half these Yankees…. the Current ones.

    Off to work, someone punk smack Migames for me… Dooshbag!

    To think you and I have one thing in common (the Yankees) makes me sad to be a fan…

    Can’t we all jsut get along, to quote the reverend Jesse Jackson.

  304. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Migames–

    Not here to fight and argue like a little byatch. Here to talk baseball.

    I’m sure you are a very educated,long standing Yankees fan. We both want the same thing, number 27!!!!

    Peace, bro

  305. B November 12th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    He has something against average players. Until this year, Eric Byrnes had the skills of a 4th outfielder. He broke out this year and had a career year that was slightly better than Bobby Abreu. He is not the type of player the Yankees should be targeting or need in order to win another World Series.

  306. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    murphydog,

    Mussina, RJ, Cone, Pettitte, Clemens. Pretty impressive group, with lots of experience, regardless of when they pitched or how well the pitched when with the Yanks. I think they know a thing or two about pitching and calling a game, wouldn’t you agree?

    There are more and I will provide them but I’m a bit busy and distracted at the moment.

  307. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    Hey Jorge, I’m just telling you what I read. And yes, they could support a $500M team payroll, but then you and I would be paying $1200 for bleacher seats.

    The days of owners paying for players out of their own pockets are lomng over. Its a business….

  308. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    alright shamus. You are a strange person. good luck to you

  309. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pm

    Lets just drop Eric Byrnes. My point was apparently Missed across the boards.

  310. Tyler K NYT November 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    I couldn’t agree more with Shamus. The Yankees are in need of a few players that don’t worry so much about contracts and endorsements, but getting the 27th World Series championship back to NY.

    Don’t underestimate Eric Byrnes.

    I see ya Shamus, good call.

  311. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Shamus.

    Leets start off by saying that you were the educated one to suggest that brynes is better than abreu because he gets dirty. Your argument, not mine

    second, if you need to run a sucessfull bar and be a sports editor to write on this blog, let me know. If not, nobody cares what you do.

    third, yes, im sure what i dont know can fill page upon page of books. That fine. It was my opinion, based on stats that Abreu would be much better option than Brynes. Im not here trying to look for justifcation as you do.

    Relax buddy, go to your bar and talk baseball. good times

  312. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Scratch Clemens from that list I mentioned.

    As an aside, Pete, the server seems to be acting up.

  313. El Comaduce November 12th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    You could never have Youk on this team baecause of the facial hair…

    I imagine a samson like decline if he shaves that think…

    if i could offer any advice to cash it would be
    live every week like it’s shark week!

  314. raymagnetic November 12th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    He broke out this year and had a career year that was slightly better than Bobby Abreu.

    No he did not! This year, Bobby Abreu’s “down” year he had a 114 OPS+

    This year, Eric Byrnes’ Career year he had an OPS+ of 105.

  315. Trish November 12th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    yanks61

    Absolutely. If the Yanks payroll was at $155M prior to siging A-Rod, then he could incur them an additional $140M over the life of the contract.

    It could also be said that at the time Jeter signed his 10 year $189 million dollar contract, it cost the Yankees $265 million if you include the luxury tax dollars they would have to pay on it.

    The numbers may not lie but they also don’t tell the whole story.

  316. yanks61 November 12th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    Hmmm,

    Thanks for your views. I completely agree that the owners responsibilty here far outweighs the player/agents. Like every other business, I guess, it’s short term profits and we’ll worry about the future when it arrives. I just hope that the ‘market correction’ takes place long before the kids have tuned out. The prevalence of night baseball is just one more example – especially the late starts. Of course, the owners have to do this for the advertising revenue. And I don’t even want to get started on the disappearance of double headers. Ernie Banks said it best; “it’s a beautiful day, let’s play two!” I can’t begin to tell you how many I sat through as a kid – and enjoyed every minute of it. But, like most ‘old timers,’ I probably remember things being better than they actually were!

  317. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    Yeah, nice to meet you to, Migames. Look forward to many more of these.

  318. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 12th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    jorgewillreturn–

    Dude, calm down. All I said was that Bernie didn’t have the world’s greatest arm.

    I love Bernie–he came through in the clutch, played hard, was a core member of the late 90s Yankees.

    But that doesn’t mean I have to treat him like a saint.

    My favorite Yankee is Mo Rivera, and I’ll be the first to admit he rarely pitches well in April, and that I get nervous as hell when he faces Boston. Doesn’t mean I love him any less.

    Same with Bernie.

  319. LathamJoe November 12th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Posada: “There is at least one other, but it escapes me right now”

    Add the name of Orlando “El Duque” Hernandez to those that were not enamored with Jorge as their catcher.

    Hey, every catcher has their warts. Jorge’s is generally how he frames pitches, inability to block pitches, and his positioning on throws to the plate (sometimes with good reasoning). To me, he is an “average” game caller, good on bunts in front of the plate, excellent on foul pops, above average on throws to bases,and one of the best hitting catchers in MLB.

  320. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    What was I arguing in the first place? Anyway– gotta go.

    No disrespect, I got nothing but love for y’all. We are all Yankees fans, after the same thing.

    I’ll be back on later once I’m at work and the place is stillstanding.

    Peace, Migames. Didn’t mean to come off as an arse.

  321. hmmm November 12th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    this thread is getting unwieldy, where is Pete to make a post about Posada’s breakfast this morning? did he have Rice Krispies (blue box) or Wheaties (orange box)??

    this is the type of information we need if we are to know which way Posada is leaning.

  322. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Posada: “There is at least one other, but it escapes me right now”

    Add the name of Orlando “El Duque” Hernandez to those that were not enamored with Jorge as their catcher.

    Hey, every catcher has their warts. Jorge’s is generally how he frames pitches, inability to block pitches, and his positioning on throws to the plate (sometimes with good reasoning). To me, he is an “average” game caller, good on bunts in front of the plate, excellent on foul pops, above average on throws to bases,and one of the best hitting catchers in MLB.

    Good catch. No pun intended!

    There is at least one other pitcher as well, and it’s on the tip of my tongue.

    I also agree with your assessment. He’s pretty much an average defensive catcher with a great bat, one that we need in 2008.

    My original point was that his “average” catching will only be in decline, and that all us and the Yanks may regret the 4th or 5th year, unless he becomes the permanent DH. I suppose we have little choice at this time and Posada knows it and is rightfully taking advantage of it. Heck, it IS business.

    I also was stating a fact that there are and were pitchers who weren’t enamored with him as their battery mate so that is somewhat telling. It’s more than just an isolated issue. I guess either murphydog’s memory failed him, he wasn’t aware or he just wanted to be ornery.

  323. Miller November 12th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Damn Shamus,

    Hold your ground son. Migames just won that battle harrrrd as hell.

  324. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 12th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Jorge–

    I’ve been following the Yankees since ’98. I don’t know about you, but I consider ’98 fairly recently.

    Especially given that I was 12 at the time.

    I did not follow the Yankees as well as I would have liked in 2005 because I spent much of the summer in Ireland, and I did not follow the Yankees as well as I would have liked in 2006 because of personal health issues.

    As much as I remember Tino and Scotty B and Paul O’Neill, I also remember Chad Curtis, Shane Spencer, Luis Sojo, Chilli Davis, etc.

  325. hmmm November 12th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    “rebecca- i just noticed that you made a comment about bernie and admitted its hearsy- please do not comment on my favorite player like that in an unfavorable way ever again. ”

    bernie williams had a terrible throwing arm. i don’t get it, you are upset that someone mentioned this?

    do you not think it is true?

  326. Ducky Bent November 12th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    Why is anyone giving Rebecca a hard time and the 3rd degree? She stated her opinion of Bernie, and the numbers and consensus throughout baseball back her.

    Are some people that sensitive that they cannot deal with differing opinions, even if those opinions are based on fact and not sentiment and misinformation of their own?

  327. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    I’m so late, but its funny because I’m the boss so it doesn’t matter. Only to me, I guess.

    Miller, (and all) the point I was trying to make was NOT that Eric Freaking Fox Sports Reporter Byrnes ISN’T a better player than Robert Abreu.

    I’m not saying the Yankees should have matched or even given him 1/2 or even a 1/4 of what ARZ just gave him (5yx$50M).

    And YES, HE WAS A FOURTH OF’er HIS ENTIRE CAREER, in OAK, BAL, and COL. Coming to Arizona was the best thing that could have happened to him.

    Do you know what his teammates call him, on every team he plays on? “Captain America”, because of his put the team first mentality. Because of his total recklessness and abandon for his own body to make a play.

    Can we say these things about 1/2 the Yankees squad, or even 2/3 of it? See people, thats why over the years, those pro-Red Sox bastahds at ESPN, especially Skip Bayless, John Kruk, and so on, all accuse the Yankees of being too much of a briefcase carrying corporation! Thats why the NYY is always compared to IBM, Microsoft, Exxon, Mobil, etc.

    A bunch of me-first, spoiled rich babies that show no heart.

    At least since The Dynasty disbanded after 2001. The real dynasty.

    Thats why I say get some guys ‘LIKE’ being the operative word, Eric Byrnes– hell, even a kid like Shelley Duncan, reminds me of that mold of player– the rah-rah type of Billy Martin, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Bera (they used to be Yankees a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, for you new fans).

    Those guys bonded, in the clubhouse, on the field, and at the CopaCabana, when teammates like Hank Bauer would start 20-person brawls with Vito Genovese’s and Carlo Gambino’s men (gangsters of that era). Those guys, those teams were inseperable.

    I hate to use the word, its become so cliche, but there is no chemistry on this team. Remember a year or two aggo when they were all trying to grow the porn moustaches? ONLY HALF THE TEAM DID IT !!! DID you see Jeter with a porn-stasch? Or A-Rod?

    Its a small, silly point to make, but its a great example. This team has been divided, so it seems, for too long.

    They should start studying guy’s characther the way Gene ‘Stick’ Michael did when he built the dynasty, not HR avgs.

    So, for the lkast time, I’m not saying freaking Eric Byrnes is the answer to our iussues. But getting a few guys with his ATTITUDE COULD go a long way.

    Just my opinion. There, no rip it apart and tell me how little I know about baseball. I gotta ten minute drive to the bullpen, you better believe I’ll be back on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  328. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    Oh, and before I depart (y’all must hate me by now), I have to agree with Rebecca.

    Bernie Williams, after 2002, had a wet noodle for an arm and I’ve been watching this team 35 years. Thats why in 2004, Cashman really wanted Beltran, Carlos, but The Boss insisted on Randy Johnson, saying pitching was the bigger issue.

    (both were right).

    Did you also know that Cashman had terms worked out with Vlad Guerrero years ago, but Steinbrenner went behind everyones back and signed Sheffield himself.

    If Cashman had had his way, the current OF would be :

    LF Matsui, CF Beltran, RF Guerrerro.

    Not too shabby.

    And Jorge, just worry about getting paid and not what Rebecca says about Bernie Williams, Maybe if he out down the guitar and picked up a dumbell, he would have had a better throwing arm at the end of his career.

    But, much love to Bern Baby Bern.

    He was great in his own way, for most of his career.

  329. Migames November 12th, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    shamus, that all good and nice. But chemisty doesnt win ball game. Runs and pitching do. The yankees have not won a world series in 7 years not because they dont have a porn stache, but because they lacked pitching and bullpen.

    Those “types” of players add no value to the team unless they know how to play baseball. If they dont, why get a bunch of cheerleaders on the team?

    And as for chemistry, it seems like teams that win are labeled as having chemistry and teams that dont win lack it. I believe its a fabrication of the media. 25 guy will like each other or not, regardless of winning or losing.

    If i was cashman, i would sign abreu because the value he bring to the team on the field, ie, getting on base and running the count, which is much more valuable than dirt on the uniform.

    Thats why we disagree, different views on the team.

  330. murphydog November 12th, 2007 at 1:44 pm

    Ducky:

    “I also was stating a fact that there are and were pitchers who weren’t enamored with him as their battery mate so that is somewhat telling. It’s more than just an isolated issue. I guess either murphydog’s memory failed him, he wasn’t aware or he just wanted to be ornery.”

    What’s the point of saying that some pitchers don’t get along with some catchers? It’s too obvious a point to be worth making. C’mon.

    And how am I supposed to be persuaded that it’s Jorge’s fault if the complainers are: El Duque, (El Loco himself) Coney, who hasn’t pitched to Po in 7 years, and Randy Johnson and Mussina, two of the moodiest jerks to ever toe the rubber? I seem to recall Flaherty needing to straighten the Big Unit out once or twice too. Is he a problem catcher also? And as for Mussina, check out his love relationship with the umpires of the world. The guy is headcase.

    You plainly suggested that Jorge was a “problem catcher” in addition to his issues regarding blocking balls in the dirt. You overstated the case.

  331. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    At work, let games begin !

    Agree to disagree Migames.

    And one last thing, before I do payroll….

    And to Mr. Brandon… Obviously Action Jackson will make it to the Bronx before Eric Byrnes. You, as always, entered a debate about ten minutes too late.

    But I do have to question anyone that has the tag “I want A-Rod, but fire Boras and land me Kazmir’ should only be allowed to see and expierence baseball on an XBox or Playstation.

    You obviously have no idea whats going on, do you?

    Is it safe to say the best part of you ran down your mothers leg and is a stain on the bed? Did Dad have bad aim, my boy?

    Hear that bell ringing? That was you getting schooled by a 39 year old. LOL, as the kids these days say!

  332. Shamus November 12th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Sorry if I was rude on that last post Mr. Abraham (and Mr. Abraham’s internet director at Lohud).

    Someone has to help sort out the fools from this fine site of yours…

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