A clue as to what Posada may want
-
- November
- 12
Over on their Extra Bases blog, the Boston Globe is reporting that Mike Lowell seems to be looking for four years/$56 million.
Given that Lowell and Jorge Posada have the same agents (Sam and Seth Levinson), that could be a sign of what they’re seeking from the Yankees.
If anything, Posada could demand more. He plays a harder position to fill for the Yankees. The Red Sox could play Kevin Youkilis at third base or even entertain the notion of signing Alex Rodriguez. Posada had a historically significant season for a catcher. Lowell was good in 2007 but not historically good.
Is a 36-year-old catcher worth four years and $56 million? That’s a lot of scratch unless you think he can transition smoothly to first base and remain productive with the bat.
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on Monday, November 12th, 2007 at 8:59 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Or he could DH.
And he switch-hits as well.
There’s no reason Posada has to play 1st base, he can slowly transfer to being the DH for the Yanks. After this year Giambi is gone, in 2 years Matsui and Damon will probably be gone, and that allows for Posada to become the DH in his 3rd year if he can’t catch anymore or more likely split time with someone in 2010 and fully DH in 2011. Posada has always seemed comfortable DH’ing and I think he’d continue to be productive in those final years of his contract. While I think it’s a lot of money for 2 years of catching and 2 years of DH, I think the dropoff signing anyone else to be the catcher of the Yankees for the next two years will make up for it.
POsada is not worth $16 million a year but in this market eveybody overrvalued.I say give it to him.But if Jorge ask for 5 years can go play with the Mets because he ain’t more important then Rivera.
Also Pete you are to addicted to Jorge one great year since 2003.He ain’t woth more then this deal for $16 million a year.
I like Jorgie, but he will break down quickly after next season. 3 years max fo Po.
This is where things will start to get interesting for the Yankees. How will the team look in 4 years if they lock up these guys to contracts and after 2 years they are declining big time. For a catcher (see Piazza) that can happen fast. I just think it is very dangerous to lock up a catch for 4 years without some inclination that he can be moved to first or be your fulltime DH.
Too much for his age and 90 RBI. Had he had this kinda year 5 years ago, perhaps.
it’s payback time for posada now. cashman went too far with his no extensions policy. cashman could have signed him for 3 years and 36 million last spring so cashman’s intransigence is likely going to be costing the yankees 2 million a year more now for three years and then they’ll have a 40 year old catcher for 14 million more for another year. good one cash. i have no idea how anyone can defend his position.and it’s not hindsight because i was all over cashman last spring for not signing posada when he had the chance.
maybe it’s time to put cashman in charge of the farm system, and get someone else to negotiate veteran contracts.
I wanted to reply to LathamJoe’s post here.
If you think the Dodgers would sign Mo to a 4 year $50mm+ deal, you are completely out of your mind. IIRC, the Dodgers pen had the best bullpen ERA in the NL. Why would they spend so much money on something that doesn’t even need to be fixed?
If the Dodgers want to get into the playoffs, they need a bat. Not to commit more money to an already strong bullpen. Just because Mo is an awesome closer doesn’t mean a team will sign him. Teams have priorities, and a closer isn’t one for the dodgers, especially when they have Broxton and Saito.
Now as to Cashman, to repeat what someone else said earlier, he would have been crucified if Mo had been injured during the season. It isn’t ridiculous to see how a 38 year old closer would perform before deciding to sign him to a 3 year contract.
People need to get past the fanboy stage and realize that baseball is business. The Yankees have a lot of money, but that doesn’t mean they will pay whatever the players demand. Even the Yankees have limits.
I like Posada, but 16m/y is pretty insane considering his agae. In the mean time tho, Cashman needs to re-sign Molina before the market gets out of hand and someone else picks him up. Hes great with pitchers and if they cant re-sign posada than id rather he stepped in as an interm solution.
Pasada is a crucial piece of the Yankees puzzle for many yars to come,PAY HIM!!!! He is capable of playing first if need be.His conditioning is great.
Do you think the decision to not extend guys during the season was Cashman’s alone? Those are decisions made by ownership. The GM carries out the owners orders.
The Yankees have always waited to do their deals. They did it with Bernie when Bernie was in his prime.
If Posada didn’t have an historically banner year, the move would have been hailed as the right move.
Second guessing after the fact now isn’t really being fair since I don’t remember reading anybody who predicted Jorge would have the year he had at age 36.
Lot of people are saying that Po could DH or play 1B the last two years.
This year Po had an exceptional year. All other years (except one when he was an MVP contender), his production does not measure up with DH or 1B production. Why do you think that towards his fag end of the career he will be OK as a DH or 1B. Then all of you will be cursing Cash (assuming he is still the GM!!!) that he gave bloated contract to Po.
Lowell is overpricing Himself …...No way He leaves Fenway and has near the #’s He posted this year…........I don’t think his demands are a realistic yardstic for His or Posadas’ value.
eh, right now I’m more concerned about us giving Lowell what he wants, than us keeping Po (which is a no-brainer).
“They’ve both been made very good offers now, and we’ll see where they’re at. We’ll see how committed they are.â€- hank steinbrenner
hank has a negotiating defect where he tries to put the blame on players if they don’t see the market the same way he does .. look for him to try to paint posada as the bad guy if he leaves. this attitude that a player is not ” committed” if he doesn’t see it hank’s way is a serious problem for the yankees. it’s basically my way or the highway and it’s not going to help close deals.
Vote no on Lowell! He’s not worth it.
They should just give Posada what he wants even if its five years. He deserves it. He’s the heart and soul of this team.
No Mo No Posada No Petite No Arod No Cashman 2009
What does Mike Lowell’s deal have to do with Posada? You can’t compare the market value of a 3rd baseman and a catcher.
Five years for Posada is asking for trouble and dead weight come the fourth and fifth years of the contract. His 2007 season is likely to be the high point of his career. Expect a drop-off this year and even more in the future. The law of averages applies.
I think Dr Hunter has the correct prognosis.
“Second guessing after the fact now isn’t really being fair since I don’t remember reading anybody who predicted Jorge would have the year he had at age 36.”
give it up sj. it was a bone head move not signing posada in the winter. he was worth three years based on the year he had in 2006.
........the numbers are crazy. If these teams can afford these contracts then we’re overpaying at the ball park. Thats way too high a profit margin if they can throw $16m a year on a cathcher whose 36 or 3B like Lowell. There is something terribly wrong with this picture.
Life time ba of .277, an ideal contract for Posada would be for 2 years. He is not a good defensive catcher now, imagine him at 41.
The Yankees did screw up by not signing both players in the spring, but that does not mean either player would not have asked for less years or less money.
Last time I checked 56 / 4 = 14 not 16
Randy,
A 36 year old catcher was worth 3 years off the year he had last year?
Not if I am the GM. That’s a dangerous age for catchers.
Pudge Rodriquez, the same age as Posada, and a first ballot HOF (Posada is not a HOF) is working off the option year of his deal. He has no contract extension on the table and the Tigers have said they won’t entertain any talk of a contract extension for him this winter.
If its good enough for Pudge, its good enough for Posada.
Pudge doesn’t have Jorge’s power numbers but, he is a far superior defensive player.
The Tigers, like the Yankees, don’t have a catcher in their system who is major league ready to take the reins.
How many deals have the Yankees negotiated in the last 10 years with their free agents to be? I don’t remember that many, if any.
Its always been a policy to wait it out. When you are dealing with older players, its a prudent policy.
If they exceed expectations, you pay them more money and you are happy about it. Its better than being saddled with bad contracts if they don’t play up to expectations.
Folks complaining now about Posada and Rivera are second guessing after the fact. When they re-sign with the Yankees in the next week, they will move onto complaining about something else.
Lot of people are bashing Cash for not signing them in ST.
But, you know what?
Bot MO and PO are happy that Cash did not sign them as they are going to make much more than what they would have gotten at that time.
They are trying to leverage and get the best deal they can, which is perfectly alright. At that same time, Yanks are not obligated to throw money at them irresponsibly. If they want to go and play for other teams for a few more bucks, let them. What is the worst thing that can happen? We will enjoy the kids play exciting ball, miss playoffs for one year and then go on a dynasty for many years without these bloated contracts.
Cashman , in a telephone conversation, has cpnfirmed that Mo and Posada will not be signing new contracts tonight.GOODBYE AND GOOD LUCK TO BOTH OF THEM.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071112&content_id=2299162&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
If Cashman had given Jorge a contract for 3/36 in spring training and then started slipping like most catchers when they reach their mid thirties you would be here ripping Cashman right now for signing an over the hill catcher to three more years.
Heh.
You know how the Yanks’ bullpen couldn’t hold a lead till about August in 2007?
Well, late in the game I’d actually choose the Yanks to keep a lead over the Nets…
To anyone who says Saito is way below Rivera, I surely hope you don’t mean right now. In his prime and over the course of his career, there’s no one better than Mo. But Saito is flat out nasty. Look at his numbers over the past 2 seasons. It’s ridiculous how underrated he is.
Very off topic and strange, I hear thunder. It was cool outside, I didn’t think we could get thrunder storms this late in the year.
LOL LF again put Jason Collins to cost the Nets.. I needed something to laugh about tonight
I think it would do us all a world of good if Hank went and had a few drinks with Steve Swindall. Everytime Hank opens his mouth you just want to cringe. He needs to understand that he’s a rank amateur and he ought to let Cashman do the public speaking for him.
DH is for Matsui.He has a no trade clause and Cashman said he wants Damon in left so that means Matsui will play DH for the next 2 years and I think will be great for many seasons there.
I think the Yanks will give both of them whatever it requires to sign them….to a point though. I dont think they will and I dont think they should go over 4 years/$60m for Posada. Then you are getting into money that is a joke. Posada was always a good hitter for a catcher but not to be a DH. They are not going to want a 39 year old 1st baseman and by then he probably wont hit enough to be the full time DH. So he will most likely be a $15m back up player. You cant catch at 39 years old!!! In 2 or 3 years from now they are going to have an old team, and especially outfield with Damon, Matsui, Posada, Mo and Jeter will all be up there in age also. That is why 2 or 3 year deals are the best and not 4 years. But there is nothing they can do about it now since Cash didn’t sign them in spring training which was stupid.
I love MO, seriously I do but if that’s the case go to hell
Also why is Cash saying at 7 pm that deals will not get done tonight. How does he know if he raises an offer alittle bit he cant get something done?? Giving up at 7 seems early. Unless the agents told him nothing is happening tonight.
Yes. Let’s start second guessing Cashman, who has been with the organization for 10 years. He obviously has no idea when to give up on something. I wonder why this brilliant idea didn’t hit him.. “Throw more money at them!”
Peter-
What would the Yankees offer Lowell? He’s younger than Posada, but really not as good a hitter. He’s a better fielder but at a less key position. And he’d cost 2 draft picks to the Red Sox. I’ve got to believe he’s not on the Yankees radar, but then again they signed Damon..
Cash has been with the organization for more like 20 years.
Please don’t include me in your “second guess” tirade.
I never mentioned anything about a Posada extension and I rarely bash Cashman for his deals – just the opposite! I admire the direction he has taken in building the MiLB organization while reducing the number of long term, expensive contracts- all while remaining competitive.
And if you have a history of this Blog, I also mentioned that Cashman was likely right in not discussing a contract extension for Mo, but that more than likely he would get it done later in the Season when Mo proved that his arm was sound.
Again, my opinion only – have yourself a cool one and relax
Brandon-
Stronmg words.He just saying we won’t to be a yankee but if anyting doesn’t work he’s next team will be the dodgers only because of Torre.If Torre was here Pettitte,Mo and Don Mattingly would be all signed.Thats the problem.
Is it conceivable that the Cubs may go after Mariano? god knows they need a legit closer.
for those who are saying that who know what would have happened if mo and po would have been extended in S.T. are missing a point.
It would have been cheaper for the yankees to extend these guys before the market sets their worth.
Second, the yankees, most likely, will sign mo and po, that still does not diminish the fact that they might get injured. Its a risk they should have taken in spring training, where it would have been cheaper than what it is costing them now.
Obviously, the yankees had no idea what mo and po were going to do in 07, but we still dont know what they are going to do in 08, 09 and 10….yet we will most likely pay them more
Absolutely right, Migames…I’ll drink to that!
You guys know it wasnt that long ago that the yankees were trying to trade Posada in the off season and toyed with the idea of playing him more at 1b so his 12m option for 2007 wouldnt vest. His last 2 seasons he really picked it up with the help of Pena, but hes going to decline pretty fast and pretty hard. Its just the nature of hte position, hes not going to be able to keep this up.
Also for what its worth, after his 2007 option vested a 2008 optioned was added (undisclosed amount) with a 4m buyout. http://mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=987 So Posada did have some security for next season if he didnt have a good year.
“Also for what its worth, after his 2007 option vested a 2008 optioned was added (undisclosed amount) with a 4m buyout.”
so what you are saying is that Posada opted out of his contract?
we dont know what posada will do in the next 3 season, he might crash real bad, but then again, did anyone think that a 36 year old catcher can have a season that posada had?
Posada didnt start catching till later on in life, in the minors…he was signed as 2b man….he doesnt have as many years on those knees as other catchers
Why do I have the notion that it is entirely possible for Mike Lowell to end up on the Yankees next season and for Arod to end up on the Red Sox?
raymagnetic-
the difference between you and me is that you think all catchers age at the same rate. i don’t. look at carleton fisk. i wasn’t the least bit worried about posada last spring.
i’m not worried about him now. i hope he sticks it to cashman to teach him a lesson for messing with one of the few real yankees left on the team.
Chris
Does that mean that Posada gets a 4 million dollar buyout when he filed for free agency?
Geez, people – what was Mo supposed to say? It’s not like he’s going to say,”I want to stay with the Yankees. Hopefully we can work something out, but if not I’m SCREWED!”. He’s just aware there’s a possible option out there, and if he’s using it as a bargaining tool, good for him. He’s not doing anything that any of us would do if we were being recruited for two similar career opportunities.
There really isn’t any true options ….Posada should remain effective for 2 maybe 3 years if he’s rested one game a week….Remember he hasn’t been a catcher all his career ao he might be a young 36 reciever, maybe….As for Rivera, if the Yanks want Jobe to be a starter, and I think most of us do, then you pay Rivera…Both players are getting a nice 1 year package for time on the job…Timing is everything, and it’s come up aces for these two…...
I’m all for Mo trying to leverage a good deal for himself, but that Torre comment is so irritating. Does he want to be a Yankee or a Torre?
Of course I’ll forget about it when he’s a Yankee again, but still…
No, the difference between you and me is that I see Carlton Fisk as an anamoly. All of the other great offensive catchers seemingly hit a wall in their mid thirties.
But I forget you are omniscient and you KNEW that Posada would put up a career year.
Mo (and Posada for that matter) and their agents are smart enough to know there is a market for their services out there. They both were open to discussing contract extensions in 2007 – and it didn’t happen.
again, What’s the statement, that’s been used ad nauseum on this Blog: “It’s a business, folks!”
Why would the Yanks be looking at Gomez to be an utility infielder if they already have Betemit to do that?! I really hope that Cash isnt really considering Betemit being the 3rd baseman. If not then they have no use for another infielder that is the reason they got rid of Cairo.
Espn News says the Yanks and Posada agreet to 4 year deal. It’s in the breaking news box citing a report
Actually, I meant to write agree not agreet, sorry.
here’s what carleton fisk did.
age – hrs
36-21
37-37
38-14
39-23
40-19
41-13
42-18
43-18
who can say posada won’t have similar success through age 40?
ESPN is saying that Posada has agreed to a 4 year deal with Yanks. I wonder where they are getting that report from.
“Espn News says the Yanks and Posada agreet to 4 year deal. It’s in the breaking news box citing a report”
if this is true, the last 6 hours on this blog have been hilarious.
No, the buyout is usually paid to the player if the team doesnt accept the option.
Pete what do you know??
Joe, it’s on ESPN’s website or on TV?
NY Daily News has it…
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/12/2007-11-12_jorge_posada_to_stay_with_yankees.html
Well then, that’s what it is!
4 years/ 52 million for Posada
it’s in the corner of ESPN News.
good for Po. good for the Yanks.
glad he is back.
Mo will follow.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/12/2007-11-12_jorge_posada_to_stay_with_yankees.html
“4 years/ 52 million for Posada”
1 more year than they may have wanted, but $13M isn’t too bad.
Chris
But it says its a player option not a team option.
Oh happy day!
Pete, man, c’mon, give us something here
huge relief.
i think Posada had a bigger chance to cash in if this didn’t get done tonight so kudos to the yankees for making this happen.
It’s a mistake. I wish they had held firm at three years.
Man, I hope they’re right. The heartburn is killing me.
Sam & Seth Levinson of Brooklyn are becoming household names because of their representation of Posada and Lowell and thankfully it’s them rather than Scott Boras. They don’t have the 24 karat chutspah of Boras.
JORGE POSADA IS A YANKEE!!!!! FOUR YEARS, $52 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!
What’s wrong with some people in here. It’s not 16 million its around 14. Hell, I’d give him 15 million to play catcher for us for the next 4 years. Why not? There arent many options out there that are even better than Posada offensively and the Yanks have got nothing in the farm.
Pay the man, then use your draft picks to sign a catcher for once. Someone whos actually usable in the future.
http://www.thebronxzoo.wordpress.com
No deals tonight…
JORGE JUST RE-SIGNED WITH THE NEW YORK YANKEES FOR A FOUR YEAR, $52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT….http://bronxstop.blogspot.com…until Peter can get it updated…
iYankees, it’s 13Mil and the Yankees do have a prospect 3/4 years away (Jesus Montero).
13 million a year, not the best for 4 years, but not awful
“ray (sox fan)
November 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Why do I have the notion that it is entirely possible for Mike Lowell to end up on the Yankees next season and for Arod to end up on the Red Sox?”
,
If you REALLY think that…change your name to Clueless Ray..oh’....and FYI, this is a Yankees Blog….why don’t you go visit a Red Sox Blog ?...Oh, I forgot, most Boston Fans can barely “hunt & peck” ! LOL !
Stay away from Lowell.
YES !! WE GET GEORGY BACK.. 4 YRS ehh, BUT HIP HIP !!!
JORGE JUST RE-SIGNED WITH THE NEW YORK YANKEES FOR A FOUR YEAR, $52 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT….http://bronxstop.blogspot.com…until Peter can get it updated…
are you sure?
think of it as…. 3yrs/42M (which most of us deemed within reason) and the 4th at 10M (even if his production plummets, you can live with it).... cant complain
also keep in mind – salaries seem to skyrocket every year. it wasnt long ago that carlos beltran got the mega offer from the mets. now it almost seems like a bargain. this contract is on the high end for sure…. but it might not seem like as much in 2 years. lets just hope jorge’s bat and glove match his heart for the next 4 years.
“It’s a mistake. I wish they had held firm at three years.”
while i agree, just let it go…
would you have felt better at $48M/3?
$52M/4 is 1 year too long but the $$/year is lower than i thought he would get.
basically it tells me the 4th year was more important to Jorge than the total dollars. the Mets would have given him 4-5 years, and probably more $$ per year.
he probably took less $$ from the yankees per year, but there was not going to be a deal without that 4th year.
“But I forget you are omniscient and you KNEW that Posada would put up a career year.”
he didn’t have to have a career year for me to think he should be given three years in the spring. all fisk did was be ahead of his time doing conditioning exercises and weight work after games. it wasn’t rocket science. it was simply hard work. with a lot of squats and lunges. posada is a remarkably conditioned athlete. never on the disabled list. times have changed. older catchers will not be an anomaly as time goes on because of new training and conditioning.
the anomaly was that fisk worked more than other catchers of his era. catchers like posada are doing what fisk did. and if posada has the success that fisk did after age 36, he’ll be knocking at the hall of fame door.
hmmm,
fisk was a good catcher at age 40,41, and 42. jorge could easily still be good at age 40. this may not even be his last contract.
cashman did the smart thing in recognizing the market for posada and signing him. yeah he screwed up in the spring by not extending him, but he’s salvaged what could have been a disaster and is not spending that much more annually than he would have in the spring. now he can move on to mo. i think posada was a tipping point. he had to be signed.
as much as i bash cashman, i’m always hoping he’ll make good decisions like this one.
Hell it’s not a bad deal for the club at all…...Randy I raises some excellent points….Besides, as I and several others in the past have pointed out Jorge has had a mild catching career in terms of actual time squating…..Even if the final year is a wash, he had a bonus coming due…..Now ink the Sandman and then Molina, and then Cashman moves forward….But they need to still stay dilligent to the plan of getting young….As for the HOF, Posada needs a few more similar to 07 and he’ll be there….