No deals tonight
-
- November
- 12
Just spoke to Brian Cashman: No deals are getting done tonight, so he claims.
So in five hours, Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera are free to sign with other teams. You can expect the Mets to come hard after Posada. I’m not sure what teams will chase Rivera as everybody believes he will stay in pinstripes.
A deal with the Yankees could obviously come at any time, so stay tuned. But both guys apparently will stay true to their vow to test the open market.
UPDATE, 7:15 p.m.: Hank Steinbrenner has weighed in from Tampa.
“Mariano already has been given an improved offer, and Jorge’s will be today,” Little Stein told the AP. “We’re kind of hoping to get an answer at least on one of the two tonight. … The ball’s pretty much in their court now. They’ve both been made very good offers now, and we’ll see where they’re at. We’ll see how committed they are.”
Rivera, meantime, is in the Dominican Republic. “The Yankees are my first option,” he said in Santo Domingo. “But if that is not possible, there is Joe with the Dodgers.”
Joe with the Dodgers? They have Saito, Broxton and Proctor. They need a lot more than another reliever.
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Peter Abraham
didnt the yankees improve their offers today?
“Mariano already has been given an improved offer, and Jorge’s will be today,” senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said. “We’re kind of hoping to get an answer at least on one of the two tonight.”
Boston Dave: where did you see that?
great let them go , it is a honor to wear the yankee uniform, if thyey dont see it after all these years then good bye.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-posada-rivera&prov=ap&type=lgns
So,don, are ya saying they should play for free?
It will be interesting to see what teams go after Mariano. You figure there are a lot of teams that could use him(Cleveland, and Detroit, even though they resigned T.Jones, are two off the top of my head)
I cant see Mo playing for any team other the yankees or dodgers unless they overpaid for him by a ton. and i dont see anybody offering him 4yrs/60M. he’ll be back.
no cmon posada is 36 4year deal is crazy and mo is 38 3 years 40 mil take it,how many games did he blow this year,
don, dont be knocking mo. he was great this year.
Ranking the Yankee Prospects:
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankees/tabid/552/Default.aspx
Ive been reading this site and it’s REALLY good.
”...there is Joe with the Dodgers.”
Dear Mo,
Joe Torre does not sign the checks.
Best,
Frank McCourt
can’t believe mo said that.
We’ll see how committed they are.
nice work little stien
“Rivera, meantime, is in the Dominican Republic. “The Yankees are my first option,†he said in Santo Domingo. “But if that is not possible, there is Joe with the Dodgers.—
uhh, it certainly IS possible Mo. in fact, you’ve been offered a contract to be the highest paid closer in the history of baseball for the next 3 years.
what is “not possible”? you can’t find a pen?
“can’t believe mo said that.”
say what? That the yankees are not the only team? What is this, players cant try to raise their pay check? Its an insult to leave the yankees?
They are free agents, the days of the reserve clause are over, and with good reason. If mo wants to pitch for the Dodgers, so be it…
a spitting contest btwn Lil’ Stein and Mo.
children, children!
Stand in the corner, this very instant!!
yeah mariana will go to the dodgers because of there proximity to his home in NY and Panama!!!!!
Guys this i all talk, those 2 will be back, Pettitte sounds like he is retiring….
The Yanks will have about $60 mill(afraud, clemens, pettitte, viz, etc.) of less payroll then this yr., next year..
Mo. C’mon. I’d rather not have agita. Got enough stress as is.
mo is just being vocal for the 1st time in his career.
Mo’s just keeping his options open just in case things don’t go well with the Yankees. That comment was probably just Mo following his agent’s orders. It sounds like the odds are very good for him to be back with the Yankees. Hopefully things will be worked out very soon.
whatever happen to the fun of the game, just going out there and enjoy what you do best, Today its money ,money ,money and some of these guys dont get it
Boston Dave – I’ve been reading that site since Pete recommended it this past season, and, as you,I’ve found it to be really good. Chad Jennings had some good insights into Hughes, Joba, and IPK this year, and with the emphasis on the farm, I think this will be good source of accurate information.
pettitte and roger are a tagteam.
Wow, that was a low blow by Mo, no?
“There’s Joe with the Dodgers.”
I can’t believe he said that. Wow…
And if Little Stein already said they improved his initial offer, which was 3 years, $39, reportedly, then I wonder if it went to 3 year, $45? Or Four years, $52.
They’d be nuts to give him or Jorge four years, unless the final year is a heavy club option that could vest if certain parameters are met…
My guess…
Mo at 3 years x $15M = $45M Highest paid closer by millions.
Posada at 3 years x $17M = $51M, well above highest paid catcher ever.
Just a guess…. I say give ‘em mad money, just not crazy long years. And if the Mets want to giuve him 4 or 5 years, see Po-boy!
funny thing is, everyone leaves Dodger Stadium in the 7th to beat the traffic. Mo will be playing to a near empty house.
baseball IS a business. it has always benn about the money
“funny thing is, everyone leaves Dodger Stadium in the 7th to beat the traffic. Mo will be playing to a near empty house”
i thought they got there by the 3rd and were leaving by the 4th
I never got that. If everyone leaves by the 7th inning, then isn’t all the traffic during the 7th inning? Wouldn’t it then be best to stay the whole game?
Mariano wouldn’t even be the Dodger’s closer.
well, with Torre i guess i shouldn’t say that, but they already have a closer. and he was better than Mariano last year
more than anythibg else the yanks could be losing their identity…a new catcher and closer would take some getting used to…and not used to being threatened by mo…even jorge was a little more subtle last nite at msg
wouldn’t cordero and torrealba take some getting used to?
I still can’t believe Kim Kardashian’s sister spells “Courtney “with a “K” !!
I hope her middle name doesn’t start with a “K”
WOW !!!
Check out this review by MiLB.com on the Yankees A-AAA organization, rates all their top prospects. Great piece…
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071110&content_id=321096&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp
torre would love to grab mo, just for the spite of it
Man, more and more the attitude around the Yankees sounds like its a business. Players vs. front office. Can’t we all just get along?
Do these guys like playing for the Yankees or just depositing their paychecks?
migrames-
i thought they got there by the 3rd and were leaving by the 4th
it depends if they’re doing the wave and how many beach-balls were brought to the stadium
i dont think they are leaving, but, if they do, WOW.
new manager
3rd baseman
catcher
closer
and its not like those guys were stump merril, matt nokes, pat kelly and steve farr
Let’s wait to pass judgment until all is said and done.
sounds like little stein takes no prisoners…kind of like the young big stein
“Man, more and more the attitude around the Yankees sounds like its a business. Players vs. front office. Can’t we all just get along? ”
i would guess it has always been this way.
we just didn’t have a blog like this to keep us informed of everything little thing going on behind the scenes.
i would guess that most contract negotiations are like this, but in the past we weren’t checking for quotes every day. the season ended, we watched basketball and football, then a few weeks went by and players signed or they didn’t sign.
now, when Mo sneezes we think it’s b/c Hank Steinbrenner gave him a blanket with SARS on it.
Joe with the Dodgers? I didn’t know Joe was paying his salary in NY. I love Mo, but I don’t think that was very cool to throw that out there. Hey Mo, your our first option but if not, there’s always Joba.
there is no such thing as team loyalty anymore and can’t say they can be blamed for that
Boston Dave:
Interesting SWB site, but I think Jennings rates Eric Duncan WAY too highly. I don’t like what I’ve seen of Duncan at all, and that is from three years of watching the kid.
the only ones loyal are the fans
How about St. John Fisher getting its 3rd NCAA bid in 5 years!
Go Cardinals!!!!
hank is thinking joba, hughes and kennedy will lead us to the promised land…this is an incredible assumption…
LET’S GO ORANGE!
LET’S GO SYRACUSE!
joe and the dodgers thing is simply a tactic. there is no room for rivera unless LA decides to make a major overhaul to their pen.
saito and broxton are a great 1 – 2 punch, taking either of them out of their respective roles would be a mistake
why would mo even say such a thing if lil stein wasnt playing hardball with him
Mo isnt going anywhere. He just knows he needs to throw a team in the mix since no team has mentioned that they are interested in him. Just like Posada keeps mentioning the Mets for the very same reason. Cant blame them they are just trying to get the most money possible. Plus this is Cashman’s fault for not signing them earlier. It is going to cost them a ton more money since he let them both become free agents. You cant expect them to get this far and then sign tonight and not talk to other teams.
lil stein could be enjoying the limelight a little too much for my liking…remember the ego he comes from
Has Mo commented on his thoughts about playing for Girardi? I know Jorge and Andy checked in on it but I don’t remember hearing from Mo.
so far little stien is all talk and no action what has he done so far mmmmmmmmmmmm sign giardi wll thats good??????????
You know Mo is starting to tick me off. Jorge is saying the right things, Mo isn’t.
Marc:
when a player hits free agency, it makes sense for them to get as much as they can, while they can. the yankees have major holes in their team if either player actually leaves. what the respective free agents are doing is getting the most they possibly can. for both it will likely be their last long term contracts so it’s time to get the money they thing they are worth for the last part of their career.
big stein was no picnic in his heyday
So, Mo is showing his preference for his team [Yankees] or hi old manager [Joe Torre] ~ where is the disloyalty? He’s a free agent. He’ll go where he wishes. I hope it’s the Bronx.
My reading comprehension skills have failed me.
I thought it said the Yankees were not his first option. 10 lashes with a wet noddle. 
You know, I try to tell myself to root for the laundry. But over the course of a 162-game season, plus spring training, plus post-season, over the course of a number of years, whether you want to or not, you become attached to certain players, usually franchise players, who stay with a team upwards of 5 years or players that really make an outstanding impression, even in a short period of time. Mariano and Jorge definitely fit into that characterization.
So, I’ve been trying to stay unemotional about what may or may not happen here. I’m trying to disregard most of the rumors, the hearsay; I’m trying not to assign “hidden” meanings from statements by any of the involved parties. It’s becoming increasingly difficult.
I realize baseball is big business—heaven knows, the players, agents, owners and various others remind us constantly that this is the case. But the problem with that for the fan is, we are not involved in the “business” of baseball; we are involved in the entertainment aspect, the loyalty aspect the part of the game that gets into your very system. The part that makes me come to this blog to get as much information as possible.
Perhaps all the changes with the Yankees is just not coming at a good time. My daughter has started college and is no longer living here – that’s been quite an adjustment. So I guess I’m out of luck looking for stability in this arena. I know – I’m being foolish. But, does anyone else at least kind of feel this way?
stuart – i personally dont care if the yankees save $60M. I care if they win games (and a title). so dont say saving $60M is a good deal unless you can make a case that they will be better off (which there certainly is a case for)... but saving money alone in 08’ isnt going to make me feel any better. i say give posada and mo a few extra dollars (maybe not the extra years). at the end of the day, that money isnt going to matter a great deal to the yanks ownership. keeping those guys means a whole lot to the fans.
p.s. im not knocking your statement… just adding my opinion to it.
“He’s a free agent. He’ll go where he wishes.”
except he just assumes the Dodgers are going to pay a ton of money for a position they already have covered.
Also, don’t discount the discount Mo gave the Yanks in previous contracts. I’d say that shows a lot of loyalty.
Don’t get stressed-out over contract negotiations, 90 days remain until springtime [more or less].
so all the mets have to offer jorge is a 5th or possibly 4th year and he’s gone?
Mariano Rivera has earned his place to take as much time as he pleases to make the best deal possible.
Unlike Todd Jones, Rivera knows that there are more than one team that will pay highly for his services and he can take his sweet time listening to all of said offers and then providing the Yankees a chance to match or better them.
hmmm, I get the feeling that Mo blurted that out w/o a lot of thinking. Unless he’s planning on a setup role?
Jen – a wet noddle?
doreen, you are not alone
Let’s get real, there is no way Omar goes 5 years on Posada. He’s already been burned on going longer (Pedro) and his predecessors learned from one Mo Vaughn that there is a certain line you do not cross once a player gets to a particular age.
I like how some people get fired up about what the players say about contracts.
Let me just ask the “love of the game” crowd this:
If your boss went up to you and said, “Listen, you’re doing a great job, everybody here loves you. You’ve been working here all your career and we want you to stay. But we want you to accept a rate of pay that is below what other people in your field make.” What would you say?
The players owe you this: to play to the best of their abilities and not act like idiots.
Once the season is over and a contract is up, they should get the best deal they can. If Mo had blown out his elbow in August, do you think the Yankees would give him a big check for all his years of hard work?
It’s the same whether we’re talking thousands or millions. We all have the right to make our best deal.
Posada was the 10th highest-paid Yankee last season, Mo the 11th. If you think that is OK and they should just accept that, than I really can’t help you.
Both of those guys and good players and good dudes. I don’t begrudge them doing whatever they have to do to get paid. I think the Steinbrenners will somehow carry on with a few million less.
lil stein scares me…he might be about not spending money…he is an unknown factor…he might think he’s bigger than the team…
“why would mo even say such a thing if lil stein wasnt playing hardball with him”
how is he playing hardball? we already know he has an offer to be the highest paid reliever in history coming off the worst season of his career.
i wish my job worked like that.
in the end, i think Mo will be be back. he is just twisting the screws a bit.
hmmmm –
i wouldnt discount the dodgers just because they have relievers.
a) they may package some of them to get someone like cabrera
b) you can never have too many solid relievers
c) they are clearly trying to make a big splash this offseason. if not arod, at least torre and mo?
i say 90% that rivera stays. but dont be surprised if the dodgers are one of the serious bidders.
We don’t really know the full context of Mo’s statement. Just the one line. So I would not judge Mo by it.
Jay thanks for pointing that out. I was just going to say the same thing. The Mets would have to be smoking crack to give a 5 year contract to a player that is already 36. They will probably try to go 5 million above the Yankees offer, if that is the case Jorge will re-sign with the Yankees. now if it is more like a 10 million difference, he will think about it. Otherwise I think by Wednesday we will know if Jorge is back or not.
the yanks might not even give jorge a 4th year
they could go with 3 and an option, mets go 4 and jorge leaves out of spite…he is proud
Pete…
You said it best last week… the Yankees will pay more now for the mistake of not offering extensions to Rivera and Posada during Spring Training.
Think to the amount of times Mariano told the reporters how he wanted to talk an extension. It was the decision of ownership to wait, I think in some ways this was influenced on not upsetting the Alex Rodriguez boat. This in a way backfired on them because they didn’t even get to see if the A-Rod boat could float.
Posada has every right to test the Free Agent market waters. He, like Rivera, have been in NY their whole careers and know how much they are worth beyond the field of play. Both are marquee names that attract people. They are worth a lot to the right team.
remember lil stein said something about having patience…09 seems to the big year for free agents
I think Posada would take a front loaded 3 year with an option deal. I think it would have to be a mutual option with a large buyout.
the yankees, mid season, broke with protocol and said publically that they were willing to negotiate with Arod during the season….mo and po didnt get that.
po looked real nervous answering those questions at the garden last night
not questioning their right to make as much money as possible but we as yank fans had better be prepared to stick with whatever we are left with
No one knows how those words were spoken unless you see the video. He could of said my first option is the Yanks and the reporter said what about other teams..and he could of been laughing and said the Dodgers quote. Joe would be a real hated man in NY if that ever happened. But I dont believe it, he will get his money and be back.
It doesn’t matter where Mo and Posada rank on the Yankees in terms of salary. It’s where they rank at their respective positions, and both at the very top, if not THE top.
Proctor hasn’t tried to get out of LA yet?? I figured his arm was screaming the second Torre was rumored to be going there.
Migames…
Because obviously the mistake of management/ownership was the assumption that Alex Rodriguez would follow suit and simply allow them to negotiate with him, then they would move on to Rivera and Posada. They made the big mistake of talking tall on Alex and treating Rivera and Posada as afterthoughts.
This is a reality of free agency. As much as you think a player is “Happy” and “Loves this town” he also loves the idea of making the most for what he is worth.
Consider this…
You come from meager beginnings or near poverty such as Mariano. You know how to do one thing, that’s play baseball. You have a short period in the grand scheme of life to do so professionally. You make what the team feels you are worth for the better portion of your career. If you are a superstar, you can dictate what the team should think you are worth. If you are a midlevel player, you take what you can get cause once you hit your late 30s, you are over the hill.
and if we dont get some relief help there could be trouble
Pete,
No offense, but the salaries of other overpaid Yankees really have no relevance here.
Perhaps you can give them a 5% bonus because they’re the Yankees or something, and no, they should not accept less out of loyalty. If anything, the Yankees should pay slightly more out of loyalty.
Posada should be compared to other catchers, and Mo to other closers. Discounts should be given because of their age, and their likeliness to break down. Because of their performance, and the Yankees’ money, even though they are old, they still deserve to be the highest paid players at their positions.
But Giambi’s $20-whatever million contract has absolutely nothing to do with it.
it’s amazing how everyone seems to know what the mistakes were so early in the game.
Little chin music by Mo…Good for him….He signs by weeks end along with Posada…..Interesting that he mentioned LA & Torre..His way of expressing his displeasure with the FO and it’s handling of the Torre debacle…..Puts a little more heat on the Steins…..He would get about 2 years younger by going to the NL West though…...
marc “Stick with what we are left with”
Realize the following… regardless of what the team says about “being patient” and such. This team in this market is not built to return to the mediocrity of the 80s and early 90s.
This team will never field a poor product as long as they have a new stadium on the way. It’s counter productive.
Po just didn’t want to say something wrong, can’t blame him.
jay…that is why lil stein is scary…he seems to be calling the shots
Marc,
Realize this, and think from beyond a “fan” mindset and be objective. There are people who know baseball who are making decisions for the Yankees. Hank Steinbrenner is a big player in all of this, but ultimately the Baseball people make the recommendations on how to move forward and make sure that the correct decisions are made.
Pete,
Of course, you are right. These two players, anyway, have done very well at their job for years and owe the Yankees nothing and the fans nothing. For me, it’s the possibility of “goodbye.” Transitions are difficult, that’s all, and it seems like this off-season may see more than the usual amount of comings and goings, or at least may involve players that we care very much about. (I mean, seriously, if we’re talking Wilson Betemit, there’s no problem, right?)
Anyway, I guess if they all end up with the Dodgers, that’ll make life simple – just root for the Yankees in the AL and the Dodgers (Yankees West) in the NL, and there ya go!
“It doesn’t matter where Mo and Posada rank on the Yankees in terms of salary. It’s where they rank at their respective positions, and both at the very top, if not THE top.”
seriously. Pete keeps saying this and it doesn’t really make sense.
mariano is the highest paid reliever in history. posada is the 3rd highest paid catcher in history.
relievers don’t make as much as starters, is that the yankees’ fault? the 2 guys ahead of Posada are going into the hall of fame.
i have no problem with them trying to get paid, and they will probably both come back for more money than the yankees wanted to spend.
but this statement:
“But we want you to accept a rate of pay that is below what other people in your field make.”
just isn’t true. both Mo and Po are at the very top of their “field”.
jay…there are no guarantees and if the steins make the wrong moves, and one of them is usurping Cash’s ability to run things, we could indeed return to the horror show that was the 80s
Assuming the worst is the fan in you. Just relax.
Pete –
Isn’t Mo already one of the highest paid closers in baseball and doesn’t he have an offer from the Yankees to be the highest paid closer in baseball over the next three years? In this case it doesn’t look like the Yankees are trying to short change him, pay him less. He is free to become a free agent, negotiate for a higher contract. It just strikes the loyal fan as disengenuous for a player to say he wants to remain a Yankee, be offered a contract making him the highest paid for his position and then muddy the waters by throwing a comment out that he could go play for the recently departed manager on a team that isn’t even looking for a closer.
listen life will go on whether we lose or win, been through all that and i remember george in his heyday, so they better shore up that pen 1st of all and that always seems to be the hardest thing to do and can we get a lefty out there while we’re at it?
“We’ll see how committed they are.‗Hank Steinbrenner
Would some please tell Hank to shut the hell up? Everything the man says is an insult or an affront. No wonder he’s spent the last twenty years on the horse farm.
No one not of the equestrian species can endure him.
“Isn’t Mo already one of the highest paid closers in baseball and doesn’t he have an offer from the Yankees to be the highest paid closer in baseball over the next three years? ”
he is the highest paid reliever in baseball.
Kill-Schill, how bout you buy the Yanks and start saying all the right things?
kill shilll….exactly what i’m talking about…this man reminds me of the young george
phil…believe it or not some owners have tact and class…no need to talk down to their employees
All right guys, I’m sensing we need a dose of optimism for the night.
I’m sensing we’re going to be in for a very, very nice Christmas present…
what me worry?
my other teams are the knicks and the jets
Mark,
What employee has Hank talked down to? And are you discussing employees who have filed for FA?
marc: ouch!
I’m Nets/Jets/Devils/Syracuse…though this year the Nets might be better than the Devils, which is just…wrong…
Enoch.
Please get real. Are you actually delusional enough to think Mo is the best closer today??? What????
marc,
Now Dolan is a problem owner who holds both my Knicks and Rangers hostage.
“But if that is not possible, there is Joe with the Dodgers.â€
C’mon. Mo was just pulling their chains a little, giving a wink and a shout out to Joe. He’s doing what he said and making them sweat.
phil…he just seems to have a lot of big stein in him…do you remember those days?
dolan parties with isiah
it just seems like a lot of people in here might be very surprised and shocked if mo po and andy bolt…what would we do as yankee fans then?
Dolan and Steinbrenner are extremely dissimilar. Steinbrenner hired Gabe Paul, who, along with George’s largesse, built the championship teams of the late ‘70s. Steinbrenner also deserves credit for the four rings of the ‘90s/’00.
Dolan, otoh, has done nothing with his life except substances and waste his daddy’s money.
and who would we blame? that’s when lil stein would quit flying under the radar
I would rather that Rivera and Posada “bolt” than see the Yankees vastly overpay aging players.
just seems that cash has been too quiet
marc,
I do, but players care about money, more than what the owner, who puts winning over profits every time, particularly has to say.
This whole thing with Rivera and Posada is ridiculous.
Posada has no leverage whatsoever. He wants to remain in N.Y., o.k. -Yanks or Mets. 2 years @ $14M/yr. = $28M or take a hike and go to the Mets, good luck battling Atlanta and Philly, traitor, ingrate, and mercenary which is what you’d be if you signed with the crosstown rival and second-biggest archrival.
Rivera is clueless. He also tipped his hand that he doesn’t know who’d want him cuz how does he say he’ll sign with the Dodgers when Saito is the Dodgers closer? The Mets have Wagner, so forget the Mets. Go to Philly oh wait they just got Brad Lidge another guy better than you long-term. 2 years @ $10.5M = $21M or sign with some N.L. team.
These two come off like they’re vital to the 2008 Yanks chances of winning when they’re not. Francisco Cordero > Rivera, LoDuca/ Castro is league average or better. Nevermind “they’re not 2007 Posada” who is? 2008 Posada most likely won’t be BA-wise. And what are we gonna do, compare everyone to 2007 Posada. Then why don’t we compare the 2008 Yanks 1B to 1996-2001 Tino Martinez or 2002 Giambi. Every team has a different dynamic. I see a combined .270 BA, 20 HR, and 80 RBI from LoDuca/ Castro and it’s not that hard:
10 HR and 40 RBI from each guy.
“Kill-Schill, how bout you buy the Yanks and start saying all the right things?”
yeah, why dont you buy your own team….or wait till daddy gives you his team….
migames,
I’m considering it.
jorge will not stay for a 2 yr deal
I think a few of you are a little too young and inexperienced to really grasp what’s going on.
Whether you like it or not, this is business. Big business. Its a 6 BILLION dollar industry. Why shouldn’t the players go for as much as they can?
Both guys will get paid and both guys will be back. Its not like the offers given to them are on the cheap.
They both will become the highest paid players at their respective positions in the HISTORY of the game.
Let that sink in for a minute.
As far as parsing the words of Hank Steinbrenner, folks really have to chill out.
What do you want him to say? You want him to beg?
He’s making offers that are historic in nature. Just as the players are sending some verbal salvos the Yankees way, he is doing the same. So what. It will have ZERO bearing on what either guy will do.
Are folks here that naive to think that Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera will turn down deals because of a comment made by Hank Steinbrenner?
If that was the case, neither guy would have met personally with the Yankees, a la Arod. They would just leave.
There is an old saying….If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
If some of you are going to get thrown into a tizzy every time a comment is made, its probably best you just step away from the news for a few days and wait for the press conference.
if mo go joba close
“yeah, why dont you buy your own team….or wait till daddy gives you his team….”
Jealousy isn’t a flattering trait.
What would you prefer that Hank do? Waste millions on two players at the end of their careers? Trade away Hughes and Joba for aging, expensive starters? Keep Torre for more than a year when a potentially better manager in Girardi is available?
Kill Schill – I agree 100%... I just don’t see what there is to be gained by those types of comments from Hank. They may be thinking and want to say all sorts of things about ARod, Mariano, whoever… but its not always good business to say them in public (especially to the drama-feeding media).
if po go joe play manage…lol
Not with the Francisco Cordero is better than Rivera nonsense.
Geez, you gotta do better than that.
That was the same nonsense you spewed last week.
Thank God you aren’t a GM. You would be the first GM in the history of baseball that would be killed by his own players, a la Niedemeyer in Animal House.
whoa – its not necessarily the decisions that we are knocking, its the insults and seemingly degrading comments
SJ44-
While I respect your opinion tis best not to offend those who you are trying to bestow your precious knowledge on. There are some people who do not see objectively and simply think in a fan mindset, it’s not their fault, it’s simply how ESPN, the tabloid papers and the like shove instant headline news down their throats.
Right now is one of the more difficult times for baseball news. Most of the big moves don’t come for another few weeks, so people are grasping onto anything they can find.
marc,
Isn’t it past your bedtime?
i’m out…hope i didn’t bring anyone down..just thinking out loud
Boston Dave,
Why do you think Posada and Rivera are so thin-skinned?
“They have Saito, Broxton and Proctor”.
And that would prevent the Dodgers from signing the greatest closer in MLB History?? Saito and Broxton may have bright futures, but they are eons below the level of a Mariano Rivera. Closers with stuff nowhere near Mo are All Stars in the feeble National League, so how dominant do you think Mo Rivera would be – even at Age 38?
BTW, Billy Wagner makes as much as Mariano – with 1/10th the Post season credentials!
Cashman gambled and lost on his stance (not to negotiate a contract extension during Spring Training). A smart move would have been to negotiate an extension in August, when Cashman’s fears about Mo’s elbow would have been alleviated.
Now its time to “pay the piper”, err “closer”!
Mo is just posturing…though it makes me wonder if he is not satisfied with the new offer. I remember reading somewhere that Cash mentioned that Mo has always been shrewd in his contract negotiations. I think both Mo and Jorge are just trying to let the Yankees brass twist in the wind a bit after they didn’t offer them extensions early on and probably for how they let Torre wait.
Either way, I’m sure the Yankees latest offer is probably their last. If teams out there are willing to get ridiculous the Yankees won’t play that game.
SJ – for example: letting joe torre go for business reasons is fine. saying stuff like “where was joe before we signed him” as if he played no part in their success is the problem. even if it were true… its just bad business to insult employees or former employees. money talks, yes, but no need to piss everyone off when its completely unnecessary.
marc:
short, sweet, to the point. I like it!
SYRACUSE WINS!
Life is good.
why do you say that whoa?
whoa – that has NOTHING to do with it. what is there to be gained by insulting them?
In the past Mo has been so shrewd that they got his last two deals done in ST meetings that took a total of about two hours.
whoa likes to insult
What Hank will do is still yet to be seen. He might still waste millions or trade away the kids and if he thought Girardi was the better manager, why did they even make an offer to Torre?
How did Cashman make a mistake?
Did Theo Epstein make a mistake not signing the World Series MVP during the season?
Mo was coming off an injury last season. It makes perfect sense to wait and see if he could hold up for the season before signing him to a multi-year deal.
If he signed Mo in ST, and he got hurt, folks would complain about Cashman tying up millions of dollars on a guy who was hurt at the end of the 2006 season.
These are adults. They realize if they roll the dice, they have to pay if things go in a certain direction.
They have made both guys offers which will make them the highest paid players at their respective positions in the history of baseball.
Can’t do any better than #1 at your position in the salary game.
Its why both guys will be back with the Yankees.
The Dodgers? They aren’t signing Mariano Rivera. Not happening.
Yeah, I personally think they MO could have always gotten more on the open market, but I remember Cash being quoted as saying that. I still think both Jorge and Mo are exacting their little revenge on not being offered contracts earlier. I still think they will be back though.
Boston Dave,
Let’s take the Torre example. Torre, as Murray Chass conclusively demonstrated in a recent column, did not tell the truth when he said the Yankees insulted him by including incentives in his contract offer because his contracts since at least 2000 have contained incentives.
So Torre, in effect, smeared the Yankees. Why is it wrong for Hank to defend the organization by pointing out that Torre was considered a loser (see the Daily News “Clueless Joe” headline when he was hired) when his father hired him, and as a result of what his father did for him, he has now been canonized and been made a multi-millionaire.
marc,
It was this comment:
if po go joe play manage…lol
_
It hardly raises the level of discussion here.
The Yankees stood firm to their goals on Posada and Rivera, but they will pay in dollars for that. But ultimately I have to agree with SJ44, both will be back, both will make the money they want and life will continue.
Did Theo make a mistake not resigning Lowell? Well in reality no he didn’t. But Alex Rodriguez made the job of re-signing him that much more difficult. Mike Lowell’s performance and the fact that the top offensive 3B in the sport is taking bids for his services make it that much more difficult.
Dave,
We don’t know the backstory between Torre and Hank Steinbrenner.
Perhaps Hank felt that the offer made to Torre was not “insulting” and cited accurate history as the reason why it wasn’t insulting.
Especially since, as we found out later, Torre had incentives in every contract he has ever signed with the Yankees.
The problem with parsing every word that comes out of somebody’s mouth is, we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. That leaves the context of the comments out of our colletive reach to understand what’s really going on.
We also need to realize these are people, Joe Torre included, who has MASSIVE egos. Often, their egos even outweigh their bank accounts…..which is saying something.
Its why I take what everybody says with a grain of salt. Owners, players, managers, the whole bunch of them. I never felt Torre was “insulted” by the contract offer and I really don’t care what Hank Steinbrenner says.
Seems to me the Yankees only wanted Joe Torre to manage one more year. Torre obviously wanted to manage more than just one more year.
Meaning, no matter what either side is saying, their marriage was going to be over.
In the end, each side got what they wanted. The Yankees clearly wanted Joe Girardi to be their next manager and Joe Torre wanted a multi-year deal to manage. Seems to me its a win win situation.
whoa – “Murray Chass conclusively demonstrated” ??? are you serious?
maybe it doesnt seem like an insult, but taking a significant pay cut and being offered the types of incentives torre was, its not unrealistic to consider it an insult. not to mention it was only a 1 year deal. i have no issue with letting torre go for girardi. i do think the yankees could have handled it better. and even if not, there is still NOTHING to gain by insulting him. nothing whatsoever.
Chass demonstrated it clear as day.
btw, Lowell isn’t signing with Boston tonight. Let’s hope we aren’t in for another Damon surprise.
The Yankees will use Arod money to ink Posada, Rivera and Santana.
SJ, you keep citing “business”.. and there is a clear difference between how cashman feeds the media and how hank does. id rather have cashman handling PR for my business, that’s all. you also keep saying there is no harm done. but before you insult people (for whatever reason), shouldnt there be something to be gained? i dont see it. whether hank means it or not. whether there is missing context. hank knows how its going to be portrayed in the media. no need for it. maybe it wont matter in the slightest but i dont see how it can help things. i can see how it might hurt things.
BD,
“maybe it doesnt seem like an insult, but taking a significant pay cut and being offered the types of incentives torre was, its not unrealistic to consider it an insult. not to mention it was only a 1 year deal. i have no issue with letting torre go for girardi. i do think the yankees could have handled it better. and even if not, there is still NOTHING to gain by insulting him. nothing whatsoever.”
Why shouldn’t Torre (or anyone else) take a pay cut? He was making more than double what the next highest paid manager is paid. The Yankees aren’t obligated to continue to pay him that much when his teams hadn’t won a WS in seven years, and hadn’t even won a playoff round since 2004.
What Hank did was respond in kind. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Unlike Torre, at least he told the truth.
There was no way the Yankees could have moved on from Torre without criticism unless he decided he wanted to retire.
If the Yankees “ink” Santana, it better be when he becomes a free agent.
btw, I would rather sign A-Rod than Rivera, Possada, and Santana.
whoa, we can let it rest. if you can tell me how the yankees are better off by insulting torre, please let me know. otherwise we can agree to disagree.
Dave,
Who exactly is Hank Steinbrenner insulting? Joe Torre?
He didn’t insult Joe Torre. That was Joe’s spin to the media to justify not taking the deal.
How could Joe be “insulted”? He took almost a 50% paycut this year to manage the Dodgers.
Yes, it was a multi-year deal. However, the Average Annual Value of the deal (how deals are tabulated in baseball) is far less than he was making with the Yankees.
The Dodgers aren’t exactly a “small market team”.
Do you honestly believe Joe Torre was surprised he wasn’t getting a multi-year deal from the Yankees?
He knew it wasn’t happening. The guy isn’t stupid.
The words are all posture and spin.
He also isn’t insulting Posada and Rivera. Geez, the guy has said it over and over he wants both of them (along with Pettitte) back with the Yankees.
The only guy who has gotten “insulted” in the last month is Hank Steinbrenner. Not even getting a return call from Arod is “insulting”, seeing that Hank has signed over 40 million dollars worth of Arod’s paychecks in the last 4 years.
THAT’S insulting. The rest of this stuff is just noise and nothing more.
Whoa:
“I would rather sign Arod than Rivera, Posada and Santana”
You’d be hard pressed to find a single Yankee fan who agrees with you at this point. But hey, I give you an A for originality.
“Saito and Broxton may have bright futures, but they are eons below the level of a Mariano Rivera. ”
Saito is not eons below the level of a 38 year old Mariano Rivera.
i know yankee fans want to believe their heroes never age, but go take a look.
the Dodgers wouldn’t trade Saito for Rivera straight up.
The equation works like this:
player + agent + ownership + posturing + contract = signing
MW,
“You’d be hard pressed to find a single Yankee fan who agrees with you at this point. But hey, I give you an A for originality.”
Po and River are in their late 30s (a time when players often decline precipitously), while Santana will likely cost multiple top prospects and a long term contract at huge money, which is a risk for pitchers.
A-Rod is only 32, is the best player in MLB, and generates revenue.
I’m sorry if others can’t see that.
sorry, i meant to say the Dodgers wouldn’t trade Broxton for Rivera straight up.
SJ44:
I agree with your logic – to an extent. Yes ,there were concerns about Mo’s elbow. But Cashman’s mistake (IMO) was not that he failed to negotiate in Spring Training, rather that he likely could have gotten a deal done perhaps in August or September when concerns about Mo’s elbow should have been alleviated. The fact the the Yankeesconsidered discussing ARod’s extension – after everything that Mo has meant to the Yankee Organization – made a bad situation worse.
I have my opinion. You have yours! Yours holds no more merit than mine – unless you’re really Brian Cashman.
I’ll say this, if anything this is a very passionate group…...It does get a little crazy every once in a while, but itdoes prove to be entertaining to say the least….Any reports on the players playing in the Fall leagues ( Arizona & Hawaii )
SJ, once again… how have hanks comments benefitted the yankees? justified or not, no need to kick torre in the a$$ on the way out. just let him say his piece and go on his way.
is it so hard to just suck it up and say something like this?
“we’re very sorry to see Joe Torre go and are thankful for his contributions to the Yankees. We wish Joe and his family well in the future.”
using your logic, cashman mishandled the arod situation when he thanked him for his time with NY. i guess he should have insulted him and told him off. good business!
BD,
“whoa, we can let it rest. if you can tell me how the yankees are better off by insulting torre, please let me know. otherwise we can agree to disagree.”
Perhaps in a perfect world where everyone turns the other cheek when affronted, you would be right, but Hank, like most of us, is a human being. Torre smeared the franchise has father has built and he responded. If that’s an offense, it’s a very minor one, imo.
“SYRACUSE WINS!”
C’mon, Rebecca! Its the Siena Saints (my neighbors!) they beat, a Mid-Major College with an enrollment of 2,900 students….and they only won by 8!
whoa, problem is…. it is a clear trend with hank. i used torre as an example. i can give you a few more (in his several months of partial team control. if it were just torre, fine. but i think we’ll be hearing more comments from him and, in general, its bad business.
Boston Dave
Dead on. Parting shots feed ego but do no good.
You’re exactly right LathamJoe. It made sense for Cashman to first be sure Mo was healthy before he ever started negotiations. That’s why Cashman was right to not negotiate last Spring. But once it became apparent that Mo was healthy something could have been done. I understand that the Yankees didnt want their players distracted during the season, but some sort of overture should have been made to their agents.
I give Mo and Jorge credit for making the Yankees bleed. Cashman deserves it.
Whoa
I’m sorry if others can’t see that.”
Well, the point is that while we had
“A-Rod, who is only 32, the best player in MLB, and generates revenue”......Other TEAMS won rings, other older less talented third basemen won the WS MVP, and other cities had parades and celebrations.
14 other squads that didn’t have someone named Arod have popped champagne in the fall. “T-E-A-M-S” that instead had guys named Hayes, Brosius and Lowell.
I’m sorry if you can’t see that.
BD,
I have two potential problems with Hank:
1) They need to sign A-Rod no matter what.
2) They better not trade Hughes or Joba (and I may include A-Jack with them) for anyone.
I don’t mind that he has an edge.
The high esteem Joe Torre once held has seen some luster begin to tarnish. He’s done more damage to himself than his intended target. It’s time to let things lie and let the dust settle.
Exactly how long were the Yankees expected to pay for 4 world championships and 8 close enough’s ? He bit his nose to spite his face.
BW:
I”m sorry too.
“Does he want to go into the Hall of Fame as a Yankee, or a Toledo Mud Hen?”....Hank Steinbrenner.
Granted, ARod shows no class by not returning Stein’s phonecall, but tasteless remarks like this will conjure up memories of the “Big Stein” days of Reggie, Billy Martin,
Dave Winfield…a return to the “Bronx Zoo” and players balking at playing for an egocentric owner.
“Joe with the Dodgers” Mo needs to get out of that much too hot Dominican sun. Hydrate, Mo, hydrate.
Butch,
There are mulitple reasons that other teams won WS:
1) The 2004 ALCS choke. There has been a hangover since then. That’s a little on A-Rod, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
2) The starting pitcher hasn’t been spectacular.
3) Selig has instituted revenue sharing which has increased parity.
4) Luck or the absence thereof.
5) Torre has managed tight in the playoffs since 2004.
Meanwhile, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs without A-Rod this year and perhaps not in 2005 either.
Now that their young pitchers are maturing, they need A-Rod’s offense and defense more than ever.
They don’t need to sign Arod, no matter what.
That’s just fan talk with no understanding of the long term ramifications to the franchise.
As Jayson Stark pointed out last week, signing Arod to the deal he wants costs the Yankees over 200 million dollars MORE than it would everybody else because of the luxury tax implications.
You don’t just give one player 350 million dollars. You do that, you never build a winning team and with the luxury tax money you end up putting in the pool, you actually fund your competitiors.
One player in baseball doesn’t matter that much in terms of winning championships. If it did, Arod would have rings by now.
Why do you think so many teams are signing their own players these days? Its because they are awash with cash, thanks in large part to the Yankees luxury tax contributions.
Its why the Yankees are trying to lower those contributions by developing their own players.
Didn’t Hank Steinbrenner, Brian Cashman and Randy Levine thank Joe Torre on the conference call, the day he turned down the deal?
I don’t know what more they could have done for him, absent giving him a multi-year. Something they didn’t want to do and were correct in doing so.
whoa – you are right about ARod… but i cant argue against how the Yanks have handled Boras and ARods ridiculous demands (so far). i dont understand how people here can argue that they’re better off without him. that’s just laughable. maybe he’s not worth $300M, but dont knock the guys value to the team.
Arod and his 0-27 with 38 stranded baserunners spanning 4 postseasons > Johan Santana, Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada?
Sorry, this Yankee team can make the playoffs without Arod, even if it means they have to put out a patchwork pathetic excuse for a pitching rotation of: Santana, Joba, Hughes, Wang and Kennedy. I don’t know how they’ll ever make it to the postseason with that starting 5. We need more HR’s…more midnight fiascos with strippers, more T shirts with expletives. That’s the Yankee way.
“I understand that the Yankees didnt want their players distracted during the season, but some sort of overture should have been made to their agents.”
and why are you so certain that they weren’t?
i’m pretty sure there were reports during the season that cashman reached out to posada and mo’s agents.
SJ – that’s all true. but for people to rip ARod as far as his playing ability now is a joke. the yankees, money aside, are better with him.
you are right though, they dont need him to win. thank cashman and the others responsible for making the yanks pitching prospects reason for optimism.
Alex Rodriquez is in a trap. Regardless of where he signs he’ll feel the need to justify his new contract. This also means that he’ll be more stat conscious for the contract along with his pursuit of long ball records. As he gets older his bat will slow which will result in higher strikeout totals. None of it is conducive to being a team player.
Re: Jayson Stark’s piece
Are you aware that he neglected to mention the Yankees’ revenues or the net worth of YES Network?
I guess not, which means that the person who has “no understanding of the long term ramifications to the franchise” is you.
Mr Reality
A-Rod could never experience more pressure than he had in 2006. Being booed in your home park, tossed under the bus by teamates and being the punching bag for every media outlet in the US, going into slumps months at a time, being blamed for everything that went wrong with the team and for the kicker being dropped to 8th in the batting order during the playoffs without being told ahead of time. With all that he was still capable of putting up very good inseason numbers.
The domino effect of not negotiating with A-Rod after the opt out is felt all over this blog. The possibility of trading away young players or signing crazy contracts to fill the third base spot, then having to replace the players you trade away again with other trades or signing again an overpriced FA. Sometimes saving a little money in one place costs more money in three or four other places.
whoa, you know i was firmly in the “re-sign A-Rod” camp, but if he really asked for $350M (and i don’t know if that is true or not) the yankees HAD to let him go.
if he can get that kindof money elsewhere, then he made the right choice and so did the yankees.
even i wouldn’t want the yankees to shell out that much cash for ONE player.
should his demands come down, i would still take him back.
There are very few teams that wouldn’t want Mo as their closer, salary reasons excluded:
Minnesota
San Diego
Boston
Mets (maybe)
Angels (maybe)
And that’s only because they have guys that are as good or Hoffman, who is too much of an institution down there.
There are very few teams that wouldn’t want Mo as their closer, salary reasons excluded:
Minnesota
San Diego
Boston
Mets (maybe)
Angels (maybe)
And that’s only because they have guys that are as good or Hoffman, who is too much of an institution down there. If Mo offered his services at a reasonable price/# of years, LA would take him. There’s always room for one more, especially a 1st ballot Hall of Famer who’s still on top.
hmmmn,
The Yankees problem is that they cut off the time to negotiate by imposing an artificial deadline because of the Texas subsidy, when, if A-Rod was a free agent, they would likely be trying to sign him with an abiding passion.
I am so sick of Torre, I never want to hear that ingrate’s name again. He was brought off the failure’s scrap heap when he couldn’t even pay his 2 ex-wives’ alimony and made a multi-millionaire because he was handed a team of stars.
If Rivera wants to go with him, see ya. It’s time to get rid of all the old players who are taking winning for granted, and playing like they want to go golfing when the playoffs come around. Take the draft picks and build a young team with a good mix of young veterans.
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