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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Steinbrenner puts the onus on Rivera

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 13, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Hank Steinbrenner confirmed that the Yankees offered Mariano Rivera $45 million over three seasons.

“He’d be by $4 million a year the highest-paid relief pitcher,” Hammerin’ Hank said. “To say that’s a strong offer would be an understatement. … The ball’s in their court. If they still want to look for more somewhere else, that’s up to them.”

Agent Fernando Cuza did not return several calls seeking comment. Brian Cashman is so far staying quiet as well.

Jorge Posada will have his physical tomorrow.

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332 Responses to “Steinbrenner puts the onus on Rivera”

  1. Torre, Torre, Torre November 13th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    “He’d be by $4 million a year the highest-paid relief pitcher”

    I’m insulted!

    Thank goodness there’s always Joe in LA.

  2. eddie s November 13th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    its a fair offer-if he wants more,then let him “go to joe”

  3. Paulie November 13th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    Why do I have this feeling that after Mo blows a save in May, little Stein will blast Mariano and remind everyone that Mo is the highest-paid closer.

  4. Giuseppe Franco November 13th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    I know it’s not going to happen but I wish Hank would just put a sock in it and shut the hell up.

    At times, his words and tough talk tend to alienate people more than anything else.

    The Yanks would be better off in the long run if the Steinbrenner kids left Cashman to do all the talking and PR stuff.

  5. Torre, Torre, Torre November 13th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    We should give Mo time to hear what Omar Minaya and the Mets have to offer.

    We know how aggressive and attractive of an operation they run in Queens.

  6. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 7:39 pm

    He is on his way back for the Dominican Republic, give him a day to go over the details of the deal, then he will sign unless he wants a 4 year deal, which may be the case.

  7. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    They’ll probably announce the signing on Yankees Hot Stove tomorrow night, if it doesn’t break sooner.

  8. Raf November 13th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    With all due respect to Mo, we are overpaying for him. I can understand the importance of having him on board, but he did have his worst statistical year ever, and he’ll be 40 years old, getting $15 million per season. He better sign IMMEDIATELY and say how great the Yankees are, and start helping recruit players…how he hasn’t agreed to this already, is beyond me.

  9. Crawling Back November 13th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    45mil for 3 years at HIS age ?….let him POUND SAND if that is not good enough for him….bring on JOBA to be the closer and sign Santana for the rotation…..get Kazmir too !

  10. Torre, Torre, Torre November 13th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    Cash should start kicking the tires on Kerry Wood.

  11. stuart November 13th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    clowns if you want to be the highest paid player at a position, newsflash they expect rightfully high performance….

    if mariano does not take this contract enjoy life somewhere else…
    it is not a fair offer it is a overly generous ridiculous offer.. thank god it is only 3 yrs…

  12. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    Making Joba a closer would be pretty dumb.

  13. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    why must lil stein blowhard everyday? who does he remind you of…as they say , “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.”

  14. stuart November 13th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    if he wants 4 yrs. let him have 4 yrs with the rays at about $6 mill a yr…

    give me a break..

  15. Giuseppe Franco November 13th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    Joba is viewed by the organization and Nardi Contreras himself as the next Justin Verlander or King Felix.

    It would be idiotic to want to put him in the pen with that kind of high-ceiling talent.

  16. Migames November 13th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    “Why do I have this feeling that after Mo blows a save in May, little Stein will blast Mariano and remind everyone that Mo is the highest-paid closer”

    and we were all sad/happy when george gave the team to his son. Its like he never left us

  17. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    Hank is entertaining, and he’s smart enough to know money talks louder than he does.

  18. Jeff November 13th, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    I tend to like what Hank has to say. He is straight and to the point. If the offer would make Mo the highest paid by $4 million, I would expect word soon that they agree for Mo to sign. If Mo wants 4 years, expect this to last until they agree on 3.

  19. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

    how about a 4th at the teams option?

  20. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    How bout they just tell him he can have a YES contract after three years and they’ll insure him against restaurant losses?

  21. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

    can he take kays job?

  22. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 7:52 pm

    Let’s hope Mo signs ASAP.

    Will make for a lovely Thanksgiving.

  23. Rocco November 13th, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    ok if he wants 4 years offer him 4 years 48 million… thats 12 mil per year and he’ll still be the highest paid relief pitcher.

  24. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    i can see a mo/po press conference this fri

  25. YankeeJosh November 13th, 2007 at 7:54 pm

    Giuseppe Franco

    ITA re: Hank. He may be right, but going public with every negotiation just builds acrimony which is not necessary. Let Cashman do the negotiating and stay silent.

  26. BBB November 13th, 2007 at 7:55 pm

    OK this is starting to freak me out. His agent hasnt returned calls, geez, that sounds so ominous. I am probably making a bigger deal out of this than it actually is but just the thought of Mo not being the closer makes me die a little bit inside. Please sign, Mo!!!!

    Also, making Joba the closer would be a monumentally bad idea. He’s too good a pitcher to pitch so few innings per year. My friend was telling me that Tom Gordon was talking smack, saying Joba won’t be successful as a starter because he will try too hard to hit 100mph regularly like he did out of the bullpen and won’t be able to do it. I think Tom Gordon can bite me…funny that he doesn’t have those same reservations about his own teammate Brett Myers, who has gone from rotation to pen back to rotation this year. Gordon is just bitter and sweatin’ the Yanks like he did in 06 when he said Rollins was a better SS than Jeter! But just wondering if anyone else heard this?

  27. RockinDaBronx November 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    Hank needs to find his own act before big George sues for copyright infringement. Whats next for Hank, the ol’ turtleneck and captains coat?

  28. J-Dawg November 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    It’s probably just a case of Fernando Cuza looking around to see what else is available for Mo. Mo will probably sign this deal pretty soon. It’s not only a contract for these next three seasons, but it is also a way of saying “thank you” for everything that he has done for the Yankees in the past. All that Mo has to do is say “you’re welcome” and sign.

    Hank Steinbrenner is impulsive and unafraid to speak his mind. He lays it all out there and says what he is thinking. More power to him, he has the right attitude.

  29. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

    rocco, that’s 3 mil more than he already has. doubt he;d like that offer…maybe the 4th at a club option for 5-6 mil, that’s a 50 mil deal.

  30. Bob November 13th, 2007 at 7:57 pm

    That`s his agent talking, it`s on table, the Yankees should not budge. Mo is not in his prime, he has shown signs of not being as sharp with his cutter.

  31. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    gordon was a choke artist

  32. marc November 13th, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    mo def wants a 4th yr like po…he will use some team like po played the mets to get it

  33. JDnotDrew November 13th, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    If Cash had just signed him in the spring to an extension then we wouldn’t be talking about this. Why let a star player on your team hit free agency- makes no sense. If they felt Mo was washed up or on the decline then where’s the back-up plan. They’re offering him a ton of money because they don’t have one. I mean Rivera had a down year by his standards and they’re still offering way more cash than they should or would have had too. Dumb move Cash. Make him sweat Mo. Reality check is that the Yanks can’t keep letting players run out their contract hoping they will resign at a discount or even resign. Those days (see Posada/A-Rod) are over.

  34. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    If Cuza’s not returning calls, then the Yanks have probably already signed Mo and are waiting to announce it. The Yanks don’t like it when the agents leak the announcements.

  35. Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:04 pm

    It’s funny how everyone here acts like Mr.Stein didn’t see more out of line things then his sons. The New York Yankees are property of the Stein Family they can say whatever they wish about the their org.

  36. Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    Hal can say whatever he wants he doesn’t need a bunch of fans telling him what to do. When you own the yankees then u can talk.

  37. Andy November 13th, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    At the end of the day, is there really a market for Mo? I know that people have speculated that if he doesn’t go back to the Yankees, he could go to LA and be reunited with Torre, but the Dodgers don’t need a closer — so why would they offer him a comparable deal at the expense of picking up players who actually fit their needs? The Mets — they have Wagner. The Phillies worried me at one point, but now they have Lidge.

    Think about it — for Mo to sign elsewhere, you would need a team to offer more than what the Yanks are offering. Only a contender would even consider that, so tell me, which contender needs a closer???

  38. whoa November 13th, 2007 at 8:08 pm

    If this offer isn’t enough for Rivera, I hope he leaves.

  39. PAT M. November 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    The Detroit Tigers…….

  40. Torre, Torre, Torre November 13th, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    Mo,

    Dawdle at your own risk.

    Don’t be surprise when the offer is lifted from the table.

    Hope you enjoy Cincinnati.

  41. Jaewon November 13th, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    If (when) Mo signs, the Yankees will still need bullpen help, 3rd base help, and possible 1st base and rotation help. Go after Lowell? Eliminates a huge hole.

  42. randyhater November 13th, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    Somebody needs to sew a nicotine patch over lil’ Hank’s smokehole. His dopey rants are annoying enough now, imagine what it’ll be like during the season when he’s holding court in the parking lot, chainsmoking Marlboro reds and bitching about Girardi’s use of the bullpen or Giambi’s latest injury?

    The guy’s a clown who’s clearly drunk on his new found fame. To me, he’s the biggest risk to the future of the franchise.

  43. whoa November 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    Hank is great. The problem is the greedy players.

  44. Ant928 November 13th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    I don’t know why but I kind of like this. Growing up I thought George was an a**hole but after years of life and college I realize though arrogant he wants return on investment…a fundamental building block in economics. The last few years George forced some bad deals-some paid, some didn’t.

    I like a lot of what Lil’ Stein and Cash are saying. It’s no longer the “I am not happy” statements of the last few years. It’s “we are investing more money in you than anyone else…accept it and produce or get out” or “A-Rod is no longer a good investment…bye!!!”

    A lot of Yankees (and people coming to the Yankees) expect(ed) big contracts is George had a hard-on for them. Now it’s “Yes we’ll pay…for performance!”

    I still think the Torre deal could have been handled better but for some reason I like the way this is all going. It is being run more like a BUSINESS (which is what they are). As long as Cash is listening to the scouts and baseball advisors and the Lil’ Steins are listening to Cash this could prove to be a new (and winning) dynasty.

    As far as people who say the Steins (big and little) alienate players let’s face it…when they signed here they KNEW what we were all about so take it like a man (like Munson, Billy, Bernie, and Clemmons) or go scratch (like Pay-Rod, Gordon, Lofton, and Sheffield).

    I’ve always said I’d rather be a bit part actor on Broadway than a leading actor in a dinner theater in Wisconsin.

    Well gentlemen…welcome to Broadway…what are you going to decide?

  45. Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    George Stein was a saint the guy was more quiet then a mouse.

    This Hal dude is just going to cost the yankees millions by using his PR time.
    We will be losing free agents in no time because free agents dont’t really care about the money they care about what Hal has to say because its very important to them and their families.

  46. JDnotDrew November 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    Hope he leaves? Right that would be great. Even if he isn’t the old Mo he should end his carrer where it began as a Yankee. I don’t feel like money or years is the issue here(ok maybe years). IMO MO feels a little pissed about even having to become a free agent rather than getting his extension in the spring. He’s a career Yankee bottom line and he deserves to be treated like one.

  47. marc November 13th, 2007 at 8:17 pm

    agent 47.. you obviously never witnessed the wrath of george

  48. 2008 Yankees November 13th, 2007 at 8:17 pm

    I swear, after reading some of the comments here, I cannot see how some of them are Yankee fans. I really get frustrated with some of the people here. It’s amazing that these people KNOW how to run this multi-billion dollar business but the people that ARE running it know NADA.

    People need a reality check!

  49. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    In 3 years Mo will still be better than 95 percent of the relievers in the game. No one in the Yankee organization deserves a payday like Mo. He will open the new stadium and retire in Pinstripes as the greatest ever.

  50. marc November 13th, 2007 at 8:19 pm

    surely you jest…hank, hal, what’s the difference anyway?

  51. whoa November 13th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    George Stein was a saint the guy was more quiet then a mouse.

    Do you believe that you can redefine reality, because this statement is demonstrably false.

    George talked constantly in the ’70s and ’80s.

    One small example, on Jim Beattie: “He spit the bit.”

    That’s why Beattie refused to trade Pedro to the Yankees when he was the manager of the Expos.

  52. kasey Anderson November 13th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    when the highlights of your offseason are re-signing your 36-year-old catcher, possibly re-signing your 38-year-old closer and making a run at a 32-year-old third baseman whose career was over until he benefitted from a park that might as well have been designed for him, you’re not having a very good winter.

    it’s going to be a couple of years before they’re a championship team. maybe longer. the deals for posada and rivera are what they are, rewards for brilliant careers, overpaying a couple of aging guys to finish their careers where they started them. if they sign lowell, they’ll regret it immediately.

  53. whoa November 13th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    That should be general manager of the Expos.

  54. Torre, Torre, Torre November 13th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    ThatWasMe-

    so why is Mo dragging his feet.

    I’m insulted.

  55. Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:22 pm

    obviously, I was being sarcastic because some yankees fans think Hal’s comments are more important to the team success then the players on the field. tisk ,tisk, tisk whining yankee fans complaining about a owner who at least isn’t mute like the other thirty something owners in baseball.

  56. whoa November 13th, 2007 at 8:22 pm

    The highlight of the offseason is finally replacing Torre with a young, energetic manager who understands stats, and finally transitioning to a potentially dominant rotation in Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, etc.

  57. marc November 13th, 2007 at 8:25 pm

    hank, his name is hank

  58. JDnotDrew November 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    Whoa- I hope your right and they don’t trade the youth for someone who will never live up to expectations that will be put on them.

  59. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    Can someone explain to me something that was written in a previous blog entry. It said that abc news said something about Andy and the ‘stros.

    Also what is the hold up? Why won’t Mo sign the deal? How much more could he be looking for?

    And when is Po’s press conference (and hopefully it is a press conference as opposed to a converence call). I’m guessing Thursday at this point?

  60. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    it will be another highlight of the offseason if we hold onto our best young players and prospects.

  61. marc November 13th, 2007 at 8:29 pm

    phil..i don’t think the hammer will let go of the youth…he is the young elephant in the room

  62. Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    Some ABC news affiliate apparently said that Andy might consider going back to the Astros. It’s all rumors at this point.

  63. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    Jennifer: Mo’s been in the Domican Republic. I imagine this is reason #1 why he hasn’t signed yet–simply hasn’t been in the area! ;)

  64. sunny615 November 13th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    i agree the Yankees are overpaying – but when there are little to no alternatives, you’re pretty much screwed. But the Yankees are one of a few teams that can afford to overpay and eat money when the contract becomes an albatross. Let’s hope these two are the last Yanks to get these kind of contracts. But with Jeter coming up soon, you know there’s going to be another one in a few years.

  65. ORORO November 13th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Hank is an ass. Mo isn’t worth 15M……it’s the marketing/advertising budget costs of creating the next legend for monument park…blah blah ..blah….this is getting tired.

  66. JDnotDrew November 13th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Andy is a man of his word and you can count on that.

  67. deadrody November 13th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Golly, who does Hank remind you of…. Hhhmmmm…

    Let me think…

    Pretty sure that would be the guy that brought you 6 wins in 10 World Series in the last 30+ years.

    It is amazing the things people seem to selectively forget. Yeah the elder Steinbrenner’s tenure was tumultuous, but if you think the # of World Series doesn’t correlate with the guy in charge, you are simply an idiot who ought to have ALREADY found themselves another team to root for decades ago.

  68. PAT M. November 13th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Did I read where Bobby Meecham was going to be on Giradi’s coaching staff ????? He was a hell of a player coming out of Mater Dei HS…..George ruined the kid by sending him back to AA after making a few E’s in the early 80′s….Switch hitting SS, touted right along side with Shauwn Dunston…..He may been a year or so ahead of Mike Pags & a year or so behind Mattingly…….As for the new boss, same as the old boss…..Hope he’s as dedicated to winning….Just don’t meddle in the Baseball Ops…..

  69. DHC November 13th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Let us hope Brian Cashman positions himself firmly between Girardi and Hank, because Girardi already lost one job telling a loudmouth popoff manager to “STF up”.

  70. NJ November 13th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    I’m beginning to like Hank more and more

  71. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 13th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    I just hope the ‘stros don’t make a deal too sweet for him. :(

  72. Eric November 13th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    Just last minute posturing on the part of Fern Cuza and not a damned thing more. Mo has pen in hand and waiting at his restaurant in New Rochelle.

  73. Adrian November 13th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    At least Hank gives us something to talk about Derek and Brian just say the same thing over and over again.Mo when he comes back will say yes.

  74. DHC November 13th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    Apologies — my bad — that was a loudmouth popoff owner, not a loudmouth popoff manager… my typing got ahead of my thinking…

  75. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    If Fern’s not returning calls, they’ve probably made the deal and an announcement is forthcoming.

  76. Agent47 November 13th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    When Jeter’s contract comes up they will have options in the minors so the yankees won’t overpay for him much if he truly wants to stay.

  77. EY November 13th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Mo will sign with us. No doubt about it.

  78. JDnotDrew November 13th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    Agent47 – Hopefully (if healthy) Jeter’scontract won’t come up because they’ll give him an extention before he becomes a free agent. But then again thats not their style so they’ll most likely end up over paying him too.

  79. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    Syracuse is amazing.

    At basketball.

    For the record.

  80. Tommy November 13th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    Hank has a long, long way to go before he reaches his father’s level of bluster.

    deadrody:

    You are right that George’s will to win was instrumental in the 6 WS titles.
    But to call his tenure tumultuous is kind.

    I would say that often George was an absolute embarrasment.
    The man was kicked out of Baseball twice!
    The elevator “fight”. Dave Winfield! Billy!

    Some fans have stayed with the YAnks despite Steinbrenner, because we love the players, the uniform, and the tradition.

    I,m hoping that HAnk can continue with the will to win exhibited by his Dad, but without all the baggage and chaos that his dad often brought to the table.

  81. DHC November 13th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    When the next adjustment to Jeter’s contract is made, it will probably be just like the last time — done behind the scenes with no posturing, and announced quietly at a non-distracting moment.

  82. Sylvia November 13th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    WOOW~15M per year,just pitch 9 inning.If MO do not accept it,let him play with LA’s Joe.

  83. A-Point November 13th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    Syracuse has basketball, but getting rid of Pasqualoni and bringing in Robinson doesn’t look so good for their football team.

    One more year and Robinson is the former coach at SU Football.

  84. Tony Gicas November 13th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    Hank needs to smoke more of those cigarettes. Whatever it takes to keep his piehole closed and unable to spew out orders.

    This is Mariano Rivera. He eats pressure up like your Oatmeal, Hank. But you think you’re going to “pressure” him into a financial decision?

    Bold strategy, Cotton.

  85. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    A-Point: We all want Robinson gone. Yesterday.

  86. steve balboni November 13th, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    I love Hank… I only wish they put deadlines on these offers like they did with Damon. I know it’s hard to do that with your own guys but com’on crap or get off the po.

  87. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Hank probably isn’t a bad guy. Media savvy? No. There is a possibility some of what he has said has been taken out of context. Hank close your pie hole please.

  88. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    Hank another thing, please give up the butts, you have this Broderick Crawford 50s tough guy look you need to lose.

  89. Mike NYY- River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    You know, I`m not sure I even want him back for that much

    I`m sure he`ll accept. he`s just going to mull it over for a little bit but he`ll say yes.

  90. Mike NYY- River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    How is what Hank said unreasonable at all? Its completely true.

  91. Tony Gicas November 13th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    Mike:

    Just because something is true doesn’t mean you should say it. At least not now. Hank is bold, but he has zero timing.

    If your girlfriend’s getting fat, it might be true, but you might not want to tell her on Christmas.

  92. Mike NYY- River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

    If your girlfriend’s getting fat, it might be true, but you might not want to tell her on Christmas.

    Nice, I`ll keep that in mind :D

    So what harm does it do anyway?

  93. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

    Mike NYY, I agree it’s a good offer, but, it’s the tough guy bravado, something along the lines of ” we made what we consider to be a good offer” would be adequate from Hank. “The ball’s in their court. If they still want to look for more somewhere else, that’s up to them”, I would consider to be over the top, especially considering who it is, Mariano, a challenge to look else where isn’t necessary..

  94. Mike NYY- River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

    So what harm does it do anyway?

    Talking about Hank that time. :D

  95. Mike NYY- River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    Good point, Thatwasme

    You could be right.

  96. Tony Gicas November 13th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    Harm? It may give the best closer in the game another reason to be spiteful towards the Yankees, after they didn’t seal up a deal in March. Something they do not need right now, especially considering the holes they have to fill and the desire to have Joba in the rotation.

    I have a question for you? What good does “it” do. Meaning Hank’s outspoken and unnecessary moments of machismo.

  97. kasey November 13th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    man, shawon dunston. there’s a blast from the past.

  98. Mike NYY- River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    Trade idea suggested at another forum:

    Johnny Damon to Texas for Taylor Teagrden and Hank Blalock

    What do you think?

  99. Johnny Baseball November 13th, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Harm? It may give the best closer in the game another reason to be spiteful towards the Yankees, after they didn’t seal up a deal in March. Something they do not need right now, especially considering the holes they have to fill and the desire to have Joba in the rotation.

    45 million dollars can overcome a lot of spite……

  100. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    What are you talking about Broderick Crawford for. Most of the kids on this sblog have no idea who in the hell he was. Use something that they can relate to.

  101. Dee November 13th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    We all know it’s almost always about money, but it’s just not tactful for Hank to spell it out. We keep hearing players say they need to consider “all the factors and situations, and their family blah blah blah” for a reason. They don’t want all the money talk to be so blatantly out in the open as the only thing that matters. What Hank said here should have been for Mo and his agent’s ears only, for for the public.

    On another note, after weighing my food options from the other post and looking up pictures, I think my order of preference is Sun Cakes, then the dry Mexican turkey, and the Moon Cakes last.

  102. Tony Gicas November 13th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    Johnny:

    I agree. I have no qualms with the contract offer, it speaks for itself. All the more reason for the Steinbrenner patrol to let it be heard, instead of his stupid comments.

  103. A-Point November 13th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    Why does everyone seem to want Damon gone? He was one of the few who actually got hits in the post season. He is good when he is healthy, and I have a feeling he won’t do a repeat of coming in out of shape.

  104. Mike NYY-River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    Why does everyone seem to want Damon gone? He was one of the few who actually got hits in the post season. He is good when he is healthy, and I have a feeling he won’t do a repeat of coming in out of shape.

    Well he`s basically a 4th outfielder going into the season. He`s got a big contract but he actually has some value.

    If Jon Daniels would take that deal I`d have to do it.

  105. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    OK bh blue, another comtemporary fat blowhard would be Michael Strahan.

  106. Mike NYY-River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    Besides, we need somebody to make up insane, fantasy, trade ideas with :)

  107. Mike NYY-River Avenue Watch November 13th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    OK bh blue, another comtemporary fat blowhard would be Michael Strahan.

    As long as he can play on Sunday I don’t care what he does or says

  108. Tony Gicas November 13th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    haha good point Mike

    and who better than Jon Daniels.

  109. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    OK, in a red jersey against the Cowboys.

  110. DHC November 13th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    bh, so which 50′s tough guy will kids on this blog recognize?

  111. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    The King, who else?

  112. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Annette Funicello, she was hot, even with the mouse ears.

  113. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    50′s tough guy, Wire Palladin, Have Gun Will Travel, San Francisco.

  114. whoa November 13th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    The offer to Mo is so ridiculously an overpayment that he should swim here to sign it.

  115. Phil November 13th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    One of the reasons to want Damon gone would be to maybe get a high OBP guy batting first in his place.

  116. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    I guess I’m the only curdmudgeon on board tonight. You guys are the new generation Yankee fans. No problem, good crew here.

  117. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    I’m guessing Joe Girardi has read Damon the riot act and told him to stay away from the Ben and Jerry’s factory in the off season.

  118. randy l. November 13th, 2007 at 9:40 pm

    “This is Mariano Rivera. He eats pressure up like your Oatmeal, Hank. But you think you’re going to “pressure” him into a financial decision?”
    hank is an embarrassment. i’m not sure he even likes the game. i think people who can’t see through hank, just haven’t been around the game enough to know a phony when they see one. hank reminds me of the guy who says he’s a scratch player in golf ,but when you play with him, he shoots a 90.
    hank needs to let cashman be the face of the yankees. cashman isn’t perfect but at least he’s a professional.

  119. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    ThatWasMe
    You are just showing your age.Ha!!

  120. Go NYY November 13th, 2007 at 9:42 pm

    With that kind of deal on the table, Im sitting here waiting for the announcement. Its hard to believe someone would decline that kind of offer, and its also hard to think someone will be desperate enough to top that offer.

  121. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    How about Micheal Moore?
    Most of them are only about 15 I think.

  122. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    bh blue, no problem, sorry about Sunday, maybe you’ll shine in the play-offs. You can’t be half bad if you follow the Yankees.

  123. BBFan November 13th, 2007 at 9:44 pm

    “Hopefully (if healthy) Jeter’scontract won’t come up because they’ll give him an extention before he becomes a free agent. But then again thats not their style so they’ll most likely end up over paying him too.”

    No so sure. Unlike Mo and Po, Jeter makes lot of money. He will have to settle for less when his contract is up. Also, he is declining as a shortstop, so that will reduce his value. He does not have the power to be a corner infielder or outfielder.

  124. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 9:46 pm

    All I know about the 50s is the following:

    Harry Truman, Doris Day
    Red China, Johnny Rae
    South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe Dimaggio
    Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, Television
    North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe
    Rosenbergs, H-Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmujom,
    Brando, The King and I, and the Catcher in the Rye
    Eisenhower, vaccine, England’s got a new queen
    Marciano, Liberace, Santayana good-bye

    Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokoviev
    Rockefeller, Campenella, Communist Bloc
    Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Tuscanini, Dacron
    Dien Bien Phu falls, Rock around the Clock
    Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn’s got a winning team,
    Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland
    Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Kruschev
    Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez

    Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouc
    Sputnik, Chou-in-lai, Bridge on the River Kwai,
    Lebanon, Charles De Gaulle, California baseball,
    Stark weather homicide, children of thalidomide
    Buddy Holly, Ben Hur, Space monkey, mafia,
    Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go

  125. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    Been following the Giants since Ya was the Quarterback too.

  126. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    The best thing to come out of the 50s were the Yankees.

  127. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:49 pm

    Rebecca
    I didn’t see Broderisck Crawford on that list.

  128. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    Giants have their moments. Gives me something to watch in the off season.

  129. Miller November 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    Whats all this talk about 50′s tough guys?

  130. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    bhblue:

    Because it’s not in the song! ;)

  131. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    I remember YA, My QB in those days was Don Meredith.

  132. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    I guess I don’t know what song that is.
    Have you gotten over the test yet? World won’t come to an end because of a test you know. Just have to take it over and hope for sthe best next time.

  133. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    I think he was a hell of a broadcaster. He almost made MNF by himself. Good senseofhumor.

  134. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:57 pm

    Turn out the lights the party’s over. The Danderoo.

  135. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 9:57 pm

    Billy Joel, “We Didn’t Start the Fire”

    One of the best songs. Ever.

    And yes, I am over the test :)

  136. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 9:58 pm

    bh blue How about Jim Ray Hart? Remember him?

  137. kasey November 13th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    “I’m guessing Joe Girardi has read Damon the riot act and told him to stay away from the Ben and Jerry’s factory in the off season.”

    firstly, i highly doubt that. the new guy on the block isn’t going to start his tenure by jumping down his leadoff hitter’s throat in november. think again.

    secondly, on the off chance girardi even bothered to mention spring training to damon, what makes you think johnny cares one whit? you think torre sent him off last winter by saying, “feel free to take it easy this winter. we’ll work you into shape by july.” hardly. these guys are professional athletes. it’s understood that their teams want them to show up for spring training in playing shape. from there, it’s in the players’ hands. damon didn’t care enough to get in shape last season for a manager he purported to “love,” but a few stern words from girardi are going to set him straight? keep dreaming.

  138. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    Remember the name but can’t put a face to it .

  139. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    I would be willing to bet that if he comes into ST in the shape he was last year he will be gone to a noncontender.

  140. Humphrey Bogus November 13th, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    Yeah … the 50′s were a hoot of a time. Just 35 cents for a gallon of gas and 27 cents for a pack of butts.
    And the Yankees just never seemed to lose …

  141. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    This must be old foggies night. Normally when I am reading this blog the only thing raises its head are the ravings of the youngsters.

  142. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    kasey, a few years back I read an article about the Yankees at spring training/camp and that particular article was about what I would refer to as wind sprints but are actually repetitive 60 yard dashes (at least 10 with a jog return to the start line) during camp to get into shape. The author of the article stated that despite all the speed merchants on the yankees at that time, Bernie Williams, Knoblauch, Jeter, to name a few, the person who had the best overall time the duration of the camp was always, every year he was there, Joe Girardi. Not because he was the fastest, he was not, but because he came into the camp every season in peak condition. If you think that he will accept anything less from his players, I got news for you pal.

  143. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    bh blue if you remember YA Title and not Jim Ray Hart, I doubt you know as much as you say you do.

  144. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    bh blue, you can learn a lot from old Fogies, like how to spell it.

  145. randy l. November 13th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

    “All I know about the 50s is the following:”
    that’s from the history books.
    blue jeans, white socks, black high top sneakers, white tee shirt, baseball hat, bicycle with baseball glove on the handlebars with mickey mantle and whitey ford cards held on by clothes pins making noise against the tires, and playing baseball every day, all day with your friends up in the field.
    that was the fifties.

  146. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    I’m from the midwest. Didn’t get all the everyday news here.Only started watching them off and on because we didn’t really have a home team so to speak. Now follow them pretty religiously. Sorry if I don’t fit your requirements I was pretty young then.

  147. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    Come on Randy how can you ever forget banlon sweaters?

  148. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    Randy-

    Can’t forget Stickball & Stoop ball & I’m only 35.

  149. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    Jim Ray Hart was the quarterback for the St Louis Cardinals if you are from the Midwest. And damn good too.

  150. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    …have none of you heard of Billy Joel?

    You disappoint me.

  151. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    & what about Sasparilla, Egg Creams, & what’s the other one brown cow or something?

  152. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    Billy Joel, he was the first concert I saw, the Running on Ice tour, circa 1987 & my Dad drove myself & a ladyfriend to the show.

  153. CaptainsCorner November 13th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    I really hope that Rivera is not waiting out to get a 4 year deal like Posada. Mo is 2 years older and showed last year that he is slowing down, hittable and the Yanks would be nuts to give him the extra year. Even 3 years is being nice. I bet you if Mo was on Boston they would only give him 1 year with an option or 2 at the most. That is what he should be getting. If I am the Yanks I would not go any higher then this offer..he cant expect to get any more and this is plenty generous.

  154. Phil - 27 in '08 November 13th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    “Everybody is just probing, including Brian,” Steinbrenner said. “The only probing we’ve done thus far is on Cabrera. Obviously, there will be an interest in Santana. Everything with Santana and Cabrera is very preliminary right now.”

    I saw this in a Fox Sports article online. Isn’t there a rule against owners talking about other team’s players under contract?

  155. Dr. Acula November 13th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    The best thing to come out of the 50s were the Yankees.

    Oh, No. No. No.

    Close. Here’s da Best thang to come outta da 50s!

    http://i9.photobucket.com/albu.....monroe.jpg

  156. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    Wasn’t that a black cow? Carmel and chocolate on a stick.

  157. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    I love Billy Joel Rebecca and have all his CDs.

  158. Granny Fan November 13th, 2007 at 10:24 pm

    We sign Posada, Rivera, and even if ARod was still at Third Base, or someone else capable, how is that different from this past season?

    We still need starting pitching. I think they would be good with any 3rd baseman but not without starting pithing.

  159. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    Jane Mans wasn’t too bad either

  160. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    okay, my faith in humanity has been restored

    :-D

  161. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Dr. that why you are the DR.. She died in 1961 during the great summer of Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle going HR for HR. And Roger hitting 61 for the season. I was playing Babe Ruth baseball at the time and all of us on the team were in turmoil because there was no one to claim here body. And we all wanted to.

  162. Greg November 13th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Giuseppe Franco (whatever)

    Hank can say whatever the hell he feels like. He thinks 3 years @ $15M/yr. is a more than fair offer and he’s right. 3 years $39M was a more than fair offer as well, he/ the Yanks upped it to $45M, Mo’s not talking, Hank might be getting annoyed and I don’t blame him. Mo should keep his mouth shut with his pseudo-threat to go to the Dodgers to “join Joe”. like $39M is an insult when it isn’t (it’s $2.25M > the highest salary for a reliever). It’s a very generous offer and should be the final one. If Mo doesn’t think that’s enough he can go fu ck himself and sign with the Dodgers or somewhere else in the N.L. since no one in the A.L. wants him oh wait the Dodgers already have a closer named Saito. $15M/yr. is a record annual and it’s quite good for a guy who looked like 1996 John Wetteland for a decent chunk of the year (2007 Rivera). Rivera was a pathetic 30 for 36 in save situations (he blew a save once every 6 opportunities), collected 6 what I call “bad saves” (saves where the closer puts at least two men on base via hit and/ or walk), and put a man on base in 40 of the 68 games he played. He had his worst year hands down.

    Francisco Cordero is a younger, better option at closer than Mo and the Yanks should sign him instead.

    The Yanks are absolutely ridiculous with their offers cuz they’re bidding against themselves. No one wants Mo save them. Seriously, was his agent’s phone ringing off the hook today? Posada wanted to remain in N.Y. but no way the Mets were signing him for 4 years with no DH or guarantee he’d be a good everyday 1B in 2010 and/ or 2011.

    The Yanks should’ve offered each guy 2 years @ his 2007 salary, take it or leave it.

  163. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Still can’t believe that Sinatra tried to steal Marilyn from Joe D.

  164. JMAC November 13th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    15 million per year for a closer is ridiculous, and if Mo is insulted by Hank’s words he’s an idiot. Hank more or less said take it or leave it, but I don’t see any team matching that for a closer. Mo is one of the best, but the teams that would even think of paying that already have closers. The RedSox have more balls when it comes to letting these guys go, I don’t think they would pay a closer that much even if he was Mariano Rivera. Anyway, I think a lot of this is because he’s out of town. I think he will accept it and then they can move onto 3B.

  165. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    Cordero had an awesome season, but I don’t think he can handle NY, could be another Armando Benitez in the making with him.

  166. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 10:31 pm

    …I’m the youngest one here tonight, aren’t I?

  167. Dr. Acula November 13th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    Not to be outdone.

    Sophia Loren & Grace Kelly

    Both were FEARLESS and couldn’t give a damn of social mores or what others thought.

    http://tinyurl.com/yt6lez

  168. GreenBeret7 November 13th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    DHC
    November 13th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
    bh, so which 50’s tough guy will kids on this blog recognize?

    Lee Marvin on “M Squad”.

  169. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    Yes Rebecca you are the youngest until Brandon shows up.

  170. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 10:37 pm

    hah, Brandon’s younger? Can’t be by much!

  171. YankeeJosh November 13th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

    Rebecca,

    Billy Joel is one of my favorites. He’s one of the few artists that can perform any song and I’ll like it. And my Jr High English teacher played We Didn’t Start The Fire in class and I blame him for getting me hooked on Joel.

  172. A-Point November 13th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Rebecca, being that you quoted a Billy Joel song, do you know who the people were that were in that song? ;)

    I met Billy Joel at his house. This was back in the 80′s, he just got divorced and had an accident with a lady driving a caddy. He was on a motorcycle.

    I had to deliver a machine to his house to help his rehab. This was about 2 in the afternoon, he gave me a tour of the house, gave me an autographed picture, and then, because he was hungry, asked if I would join him for Breakfast.

    He cooked me steak and eggs.

    His kitchen was huge, in one corner he had a jukebox, not one song of his was on it.

  173. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    by the content of his posts, I would guess 19

  174. PAT M. November 13th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Mariano Rivera will come full circle and within 2 years he’ll return to a setup role…Obviously the club will need to find a closer from within the organization…..There’s several candidates on the horizon…Wheelan could be that person if he rebounds form surgery… As for YA Title, he used to live in Pelham saw him all the time….I remeber going to The Stadium as my Pop was a Giant season ticket holder….Always facinated how they transfored the place to football….I was a big Joe Williw fan as most young peolple back in the day of the 60′s…..

  175. randy l. November 13th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    thatwasme-
    we actually only had white tee shirts. it was like our uniform. every kid, black sneakers, blue jeans, white tee shit, baseball hat. baseball glove. life was simple. all yankee fans. one father was a red sox fan who loved ted williams, but we paid no attention to him at all, even his own kids. my favorite bat was a harvey kuenn model, but i liked jackie robinson and nellie fox bats when i just wanted to get a hit. they were so big handled at the end of the bat that you had to choke up and make contact. being a lefty hitter , nothing was more fun than drag bunting like mickey.

  176. bh blue November 13th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    Rebecca how does it feel to be sitting around talking to a bunch of Grandpa’s?

  177. Mark McCray November 13th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    howdy…so when does everyone think Mo will re-sign.

  178. Greg November 13th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    There isn’t an A.L. team who needs Mo, their closer/ reason in parentheses (* indicates he’s better than Mo):

    YANKS (They could sign Francisco Cordero*.)

    BOSTON (Paplebon*)

    TORONTO (Ryan)

    BALTIMORE (Ray*; they won’t chance giving an old pitcher like Mo 3 or more years; Mo wouldn’t go there anyway; why would they throw max years and money at a closer after coming off a 69-win season?)

    TAMPA BAY (couldn’t afford him; Mo wouldn’t go there anyway; they could suck with Reyes closing for far less money)

    CLEVELAND (Borowski; they need to lock up their ace who just won the A.L. Cy Young Award)

    DETROIT (Jones)

    MINNESOTA (Nathan*)

    KANSAS CITY (Soria*; couldn’t afford him: he wouldn’t go there anyway)

    CHICAGO (Jenks*)

    LOS ANGELES (K-Rod*)

    TEXAS (Benoit/ Wilson; he wouldn’t go there anyway)

    OAKLAND (Street*)

    SEATTLE (Putz*)

  179. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    I’m a Dad, not a grandpa yet.

  180. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    bh blue, you’re be one (a grandpa) some day if you are smart enough to make it as far as we have.

  181. Mark McCray November 13th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    greg. you think that 8 more closers are better than rivera right now??? interesting thought

  182. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    Greg

    You think all those guys are better than Rivera?? You have to be kidding, right?

  183. A-Point November 13th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    K-Rod, yeah, that is one awesome pitcher.

    Nyet.

  184. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    Oh. My. God.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaGHVWKrcpQ

  185. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    A-Point: I’m a history major, I know most of the references =)

    Anyway, I was always taught to respect my elders ;)

    Greg: Excuse me while I laugh. Sorry.

  186. CaptainsCorner November 13th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    Hank says who the Boss is..Good thing he is saying here is the offer and it is plenty good because no other team is going to match this offer for a 38 year old. The Yanks would be bidding against themselves.

    “It’s a very good offer for a 38-year-old pitcher,” Steinbrenner told Newsday in a telephone interview. “I want him back. That’s the offer. Now the ball’s in their court, and that’s it.”

    Asked if Rivera wanted a fourth year, Hank Steinbrenner said, “It doesn’t matter. That’s the offer.”

  187. CaptainsCorner November 13th, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    Also good thing ttht report about Pettitte was not true. Now they just have to get him not to retire.

    Hank Steinbrenner also said that the Yankees were close to re-signing backup catcher Jose Molina. The Yankees acquired Molina, 32, last July and quickly grew to enjoy his work both offensively and defensively.

    WABC-TV reported Tuesday night that Andy Pettitte, a free agent, would consider returning to his hometown Astros for 2008. “That’s false,” Hank Steinbrenner said, and another source reiterated Pettitte’s public statements that he would either retire or pitch for the Yankees next season.

  188. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    Rivera definitely wants that 4th year, he may get it.

  189. raymagnetic November 13th, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    Hank is absolutely right. Mo will be overpayed as it is for 3 years. If he wants a 4th year then it should definitely be goodbye!

  190. Paul9 November 13th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    No 4th year, we already gave Jorge 4 years and that will bite us in the end.

  191. Dr. Acula November 13th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    Here’s a touching and poignant clip about Love, Fate & Tragedy, featuring Joe and Marilyn DiMaggio.

    http://tinyurl.com/2bqc7v

    Runs 2:10

    You have to sit through a short commercial, first.

  192. asburyboss November 13th, 2007 at 10:56 pm

    greg…not even close

  193. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 10:57 pm

    Every time I see Hank he’s dragging on a butt like it’s the last one on the planet earth. Tell me there isn’t a resemblance to Broderick Crawford.

    http://www.highwaypatroltv.com.....brod56.jpg

  194. Paul9 November 13th, 2007 at 10:57 pm

    We could have extend him and Jorge in spring and given them both 3 years and less money and they prob would have signed. Now we have to overextend and overpay, and once again like every other player we overextend and overpay it will come back to bite us.

  195. Greg November 13th, 2007 at 10:58 pm

    Here’s a good reason why the Posada signing is bad:

    Posada has to be the DH and/ or 1B in 2010-11 and will be lousy at both. DH because he’ll have 20-25 HR power at best, 1B because he’ll be a slug who won’t scoop up bad throws with consistency, you don’t learn that at age 38-39 and it’s not the same as scooping balls from the dirt folks. He’s lead the league or been among the leaders in passed balls most years he’s been a starter, what makes you think he’ll be a good bad-throw scooper? What the hell makes you think he’ll be a good all-around 1B period at age 38-39, cuz “1B is so easy”? It is not easy. Piazza was a better defensive catcher than Posada and an overall better player than him -he’s a Hall Of Famer- but he couldn’t move to 1B and he was slightly YOUNGER than Posada (35). Being better than Piazza at 1B isn’t saying much.

  196. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 11:00 pm

    Piazza wasn’t good defensively.

  197. Dr. Acula November 13th, 2007 at 11:00 pm

    Rebecca-

    I’m the youngest one here tonight, aren’t I?

    Not a problem.

    I won’t hold your youthful passion and glowing looks against you!

  198. YankeeJosh November 13th, 2007 at 11:01 pm

    Papelbon- I’ll give you.

    Ray- 4.43 ERA last year, 4 blown saves equals Mo, only 16 saves. Not better than Rivera

    Cordero- 2.98 ERA, (comparable to Mo’s and 7 blown saves)Not better than Rivera.

    Nathan- 4 blown saves but a nice 1.88 ERA. I like Rivera better but I’ll grant this is arguable. That’s 2.

    Jenks- 6 blown saves, 2.77 ERA. I’ll take Mo.

    K-Rod- I’ll give you (that’s 3)

    Street- Seriously? He had 16 saves and 5 blown saves, with a 2.88 ERA comparable to Mo.

    Putz- Had a great year. That’s 4 at best.

    Rivera- 30 saves, a good 3.15 ERA and only 4 blown saves. And before this year ghe’s had 4 straight seasons with an ERA under 2. He’s lost a little something and may not be the best anymore but he’s still an elite closer who has proven he can do it year in year out. The others haven’t. Mo is still one of the best in the league.

  199. CaptainsCorner November 13th, 2007 at 11:01 pm

    4 years for Posada is not the worst thing because he can always be the back up catcher, DH, 1st base. Once Mo’s cutter isnt cutting anymore then he will be finished. If he had more then 1 pitch then it would be much better and easier for him to fool batters with less stuff. A ball with no movement at 39 years old will not get it done and he will be pitching in the 7th and 8th innings.

  200. Buddy Biancalana November 13th, 2007 at 11:02 pm

    Dr. is looking for some blood, ah ah ah!

  201. pat November 13th, 2007 at 11:08 pm

    If the Yanks give Lowell 4 years, him and Posada wil have to share 1B and DH the last 1 or 2 years. Another 1B/DH logjam to look forward to.

  202. yank 4 life November 13th, 2007 at 11:08 pm

    Guiseppe Franco – great name! my wife was amazed when I knew your commercial by heart. they only play it once per commercial break – thats over 3000 times last season.

    rebecaa and jennifer – my doorman was right abot JP signing – he was off by 400,000!!!!!

  203. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 13th, 2007 at 11:09 pm

    Dr. A: Thanks.

    Dude, guys, seriously, check this out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaGHVWKrcpQ

  204. PAT M. November 13th, 2007 at 11:11 pm

    I agree with the 3 year contact…But do remeber, closers have a pretty good shelf life…..Think Goose, Rollie Fingers, Lee Smith, Eck, Sutter, Hoffman & so on….As long as they can still effectively hit their spots they can still be of worth…Mo will slip into a ( expensive )setup role…But three years has to the max….Hell Todd Jones is still bouncing around and collecting a paycheck….Rivera still top shelf stuff……

  205. A-Point November 13th, 2007 at 11:12 pm

    Clever link Rebecca. :D

  206. kasey November 13th, 2007 at 11:12 pm

    i’m sure girardi came to camp in great shape. the guy always gave it all out there, no doubt.

    but if you think he’s going to come into a team full of veteran players who he knows would much rather still be playing for torre and start reading guys the riot act, you’re sorely mistaken.

    “if damon shows up to camp out of shape, they’ll ship him to a non-contender.” wrong. if damon shows up to camp out of shape again, they’re not going to berate him or trade him. they’re going to suffer through his playing his way into shape again. who’s going to trade for an out-of-shape left fielder who can’t throw? who’s chomping at the bit for that guy? he shows out of shape and they try to deal him, they’ll get $0.40 on the dollar for him. either way, they come up on the wrong end of the deal.

    it’s really not as easy as girardi coming in and pushing guys around or trading liabilities. if it were, the cubs would have won the world series with pinella at the helm and giambi would be playing somewhere else.

  207. Dr. Acula November 13th, 2007 at 11:24 pm

    Buddy, you are quite wise for a man who has lived only a single life-time.

    Reminds me of when the dark Prince seduced Buffy.

    Oh yeah! cue the dream sequence:

    http://tinyurl.com/3dgrq4

  208. ThatWasMe November 13th, 2007 at 11:27 pm

    kasey, I think Girardi will have meetings, one on one with players to tell them what he expects from them in the spring, now that isn’t exactly expecting a lot, I don’t think. Sorry if I believe Girardi has higher expectations in camp than Torre did, but that is what i think.

  209. Dave November 13th, 2007 at 11:34 pm

    Mo will sign when he realizes no other team is paying him that kind of money. Not the Dodgers, not anyone. He is towards the end of his career, had one of the worst seasons of his career last year and when closers fall off it is usually quick and hard. He is lucky he is getting three yrs at his age. I wouldnt go any higher than that offer. If someone wants to give rivera a fourth yr, good luck to them. We will have to find a closer for the yr before K-rod, Joe Nathan and Jason Isringhausen become free agents next off season. K-rod and Nathan arent making that kind of money and they are going to be far better than rivera will over the next three season as they are still in their prime.

  210. Adrian November 13th, 2007 at 11:38 pm

    He needs to figure out the bullpen unlike Torre.You can’t use Mike Myers a Lefty Specialist as a long man reliver and have Ron Guidry change he’s stance on the mound to help him against righties.Hopefully Giradi should do better with the bullpen.

  211. Marc November 13th, 2007 at 11:41 pm

    That’s $500,000 per save.

  212. Andrea November 13th, 2007 at 11:42 pm

    …I’m a little late….

    but I’ve been to a Billy Joel concert!

  213. TJ November 13th, 2007 at 11:51 pm

    Forget him. Not worth it. Put a few pounds on him and he’s just another Todd Jones at this advanced age.

  214. The Fallen Phoenix November 13th, 2007 at 11:58 pm

    In 2007, Mariano Rivera was 16th out of all relievers in Win-Expectation above Replacement, Line-up Adjusted (3.699).

    That means Rivera was about three-and-a-half wins better than your fringe-MLB/AAA reliever, when you adjust for the strength of lineups that Rivera faced over the course of the year.

    The most significant thing to take from that was that a “declining” Rivera was *still* the 16th-best reliever, all things considered. That’s not too shabby.

    Using more common metrics, however, the myth that Rivera is “declining” can be put to rest, at least for another year. His strikeouts were up this year (74) as opposed to last (55) despite pitching four fewer innings. He gave up a few more hits (66 as opposed to 58) but he only walked two more batters (12 as opposed to 10). His WHIP was still hovering around 1, although it was his highest since 1997 (the only other year in his career, as a reliever, that Mo’s WHIP has been above 1 was 2004). Mariano gave up four homers this year, as opposed to three in 2006, and two in 2005 (although he surrendered three in 2002, 2003, and 2004, and five in 2001).

    Moral of the story is, Mariano’s peripherals last year were not all that much worse than they have been in previous years; the only significant difference was that he gave up a few more hits, but that can be explained away by a high-ish Batting Average Balls in Play (BABIP) of .325. His career BABIP is .270 (closer to average), and BABIP generally wildly fluctuates anyhow. Only sinker-ball pitchers display any semblance of control over BABIP year-to-year, and the correlation there isn’t very high, either.

    (As an interesting aside, hitters also display little control over their BABIP. Last year, Posada saw a pretty big spike in his BA, and as a result, his OBP and OPS. Guess what the big difference for him was? A higher BABIP, as compared to other years. His power numbers remained the same, his walks remained about the same; more of the balls he hit in play just happened not to be fielded. Still, even Posada c. 2004-2006 is a pretty damned good offensive catcher; it’s just another piece of evidence to show Posada’s not going to have another 2007, which we already knew.)

    Getting back to Rivera: outside of the fact that he’s a year older, there’s nothing in either his stuff or his performance that suggests a big drop-off in the next two-to-three years. Yes, older players are more of an injury (and fatigue) risk than younger players. And yes, Rivera is probably going to be due for *some* sort of drop off, and the risk will only get higher with age.

    But a contract for three years? I can buy that. I would prefer two, of course, but I could buy three more years of Mariano Rivera, even with a slight drop-off. As for money, well, I personally never consider that money has come off the books until after a contract has expired. That is to say, I’m not considering that ~$13M is being added to the Yankee payroll as per Posada’s contract, for example, but the difference between Posada’s last contract and his new one–and the Yankees generally have a generous budget year-to-year anyway, such that I don’t think Posada and Rivera’s contracts will be as restrictive as, say, a Giambi, Jeter, or Rodriguez contract are/would be.

  215. umbrellaman November 14th, 2007 at 12:04 am

    3 years 45M is the same as 4 years 11.25M, which would still make him the highest paid relief pitcher in baseball.

  216. Buddy Biancalana November 14th, 2007 at 12:07 am

    Mo probably wants 4 years for $50 mil

  217. The Fallen Phoenix November 14th, 2007 at 12:13 am

    Just an addendum to my previous reply: I think the reason why the Yankees added money onto Rivera’s deal (as umbrellaman has already hinted) is because Cashman and the Yankee brass would prefer to raise Rivera’s annual yearly value then offer him additional years.

    In that respect, 3 years, $45 million makes a lot of sense, if Rivera had previously requested a fourth year at $11.25M (or even $12M) after receiving the Yankees’ initial offer. And if that’s the case, then it also makes perfect (consistent) sense why the Yankees would draw the line at $15M a year for 3 years.

  218. gayle November 14th, 2007 at 12:22 am

    Hello when talking about his saves in 2007 please remember for the first half ofthe season he rarely got into games for a save situation

  219. Adrian November 14th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    The Fallen Phoniex-

    Good stats.I think the higher hits were because he was used so out of sync in April he was used like every five days.Anything over three days made Mariano look a little rusting giving up a a coulpe of hits before he locked it down.

  220. fleas November 14th, 2007 at 12:35 am

    ERA 3.15 for a closer??? C’mon!

    not to mrntion the runs he gave up that didn’t go to him but the pitcher he replaced.

    Mo is losing it, it’d the laws of nature.

  221. Big V November 14th, 2007 at 12:36 am

    Disgraceful Part II

    3 years at 15 million per year for a guy whose arm is going to fall off in another year and a half. Just curious do you think Rivera would except a setup role in a year in a half?
    This is another example how the Yankees can just throw tons and tons of money against the wall and hope it sticks.
    THe Yankees one of these days will learn you can’t have your cake and eat it.
    Do you know why the Yankees in the oh how many years can’t seem to do well in the playoffs? Because their players are paid so much more than everyone else that even though they are great players (over 162 games) the pressure for them to Win a World Series is toooooooo muuuuuuch.

    Too much pressure by all standards – I’ve never seen a team consistently over the last 4 years come into the playoffs so tense. Sure they can go on their silly losing streaks during the regular season and then beat up on the weak teams with 14-3 wins. But when they have to play teams that are comparable they fall by their own merits because they are so tight.

    The Yankees can out spend in the grey areas – like signing Latin younsters to big contracts and signing draft picks that noone else can sign. Those players can hide in the minors for a few years and then build up their confidence.
    But when you OVERPAY these Major Leaguers, you shouldn’t expect to see them perform like they use to. Todays players aren’t tough like Reggie Jackson that can laugh at slumps. THese players today crumble under the slightest pressure once they sign these big contracts. Shoot some don’t even show up….Carl something or another. Others can’t even make it to mediocrity Igawa or something.
    Wake up management and have a little confidence in the ability of quality players to over perform than to over pay them to perform to certain expectations. Today’s players take the money and run.
    SIDE NOTE : Wouldn’t surprise me that Rivera is making mgmt wait to sign to get even for them not extending his contract during the year. Sad too, if there was one player to over pay it would be Rivera – But I’d rather see it in a 2 year deal than a 3. Maybe CASHman is thinking these players are just going to retire before the last year.

    So folks whats next? Abreu “I don’t like the cold” for another 16 million? Why not, its just money……..

  222. Ron November 14th, 2007 at 12:41 am

    Maybe I’m just dumb, but I don’t understand how 16th-best closer out of 30 is an argument in favor of signing him, at that cost, for 3 years. What am I missing here? What’s a non-emotional, completely prospective argument for signing him to such a big contract?

  223. Adrian November 14th, 2007 at 12:47 am

    Big V-

    You are right but you have to remember this market has gone crazy.If Cashman would have done a deal in spring training they could have gone $11 million easy.Play with fire you are gonna get burned.Also Mariano has only given up only 2 earned runs in ALDS.He had 6 strikeouts and no runs in this year ALDS.Thats why you pay him and Jeter(who sucked like Jorge) to play better in the playoffs.Mariano was the real reason the Yankees won back then i the late 90′s the irreplaceable player.He is still that dominate and if you look up on the post The Fallen Phoniex of how Mariano stats are still similar from other years before.

    Mariano still a great player not as Dominate but in the playoffs he is still great.

  224. fleas November 14th, 2007 at 12:52 am

    Dreamers.. I love how people don’t get it. Old great player do NOT equal their younger selves. That doesn’t mean that they are horrible, but stop judging them by their youthful stats .. geez!

    I ask you this, How many time did you have to hold your breath with Mo last year, and wished Joba would close the game?

  225. Scooter10 November 14th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    I think Mo will sign on the dotted line. I think it’s a fair offer and I would not go above 3 years even if it means losing him. I like Hank. Keeps things interesting. He says what he means. He means what he says. This is NY. We need a bit of a soap opera. But also a winning team. Once we get Posada/Rivera back, we should then look for the same types of players that brought us the WS back in the 90′s. Guys like Brosius, O’Neill, Giradi. Well, at least we have one them…..

  226. sunny615 November 14th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    This is what MLBrumors is reporting that the Marlins want from the Angels and Dodgers:

    From the Angels, the Marlins want Howie Kendrick, Nick Adenhart, another pitcher, and an outfielder. Now that’s a tall order! Ervin Santana or Joe Saunders could be in the mix. Maybe the Marlins like Terry Evans, Nathan Haynes, or Reggie Willits as well.

    The Dodgers are being asked to pony up four of Chad Billingsley, Clayton Kershaw, Andy LaRoche, James Loney, and Matt Kemp. Capozzi suggests the Dodgers would probably only include one of the pitchers. Even so, a Kershaw/LaRoche/Loney/Kemp package is insane for one player. That has to be well over $100MM of value – a bit less than 20 team-controlled seasons. Three of the five would still make for a sweet bounty.

    So you can forget the Kennedy’s with Melky’s for Cabrera – they’ll ask for a combination of Joba, Hughes, Cano and the moon for Cabrera and Cash will wisely say no.

  227. sunny615 November 14th, 2007 at 1:02 am

    Miguel Cabrera that is.

  228. Seth November 14th, 2007 at 1:12 am

    Oh my goodness, can we please find a muzzle and use it on Hank… please, for god’s sake, shut the hell up!!!

  229. mel November 14th, 2007 at 2:54 am

    Seth,

    I agree. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.

  230. mel November 14th, 2007 at 3:02 am

    Just read Hank’s comments. He must dance, seduce, and negotiate the same way. Pretty painful for the partner.

  231. Bryn White November 14th, 2007 at 6:58 am

    The begging will start soon. I think our third base hole will be filled soon. Look for a return of ARod to the Bronx

  232. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 7:06 am

    Lupica Daily News – - A-Rod really wants to come back…

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....yanke.html

  233. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 7:08 am

    Joel Sherman, George King and Mark Hale in today’s Post: A-Rod wants to come back and maybe the yanks listen.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/11....._84443.htm

  234. JJNJ November 14th, 2007 at 7:09 am

    I’m all for brutal honesty when we’re talking this kind of money, especially for an aging reliever. I’m not going to get nostalgic, because then I’ll just remember players like Paul O’Neill who took less money to stay in NY.

    Yeah I’m sure $15 mil a year won’t pay the bills.

  235. Tommy November 14th, 2007 at 7:18 am

    Thanks for the Arod links, Murphydog.

    As much as Team AROD has worn me out in the past, I’m beginning to realize that this would be the best scenario.

    I honestly don’t believe he is worth what Boras says he is worth, so much above and beyond any other player.

  236. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 7:19 am

    mel:

    “Just read Hank’s comments. He must dance, seduce, and negotiate the same way. Pretty painful for the partner.”

    Depends on how much the partner likes spending Hank’s money.

  237. Floyd November 14th, 2007 at 7:20 am

    If A-Rod wants to come back then HE must give NY the 21MM subsidy they lost out when he opted out.

  238. Bryn White November 14th, 2007 at 7:25 am

    If ARod does return, I think this will make it a little easier for Cash to pull the trigger on a Santana deal. Deal Melky and sign Hunter.

  239. J. V. - Yonkers November 14th, 2007 at 7:34 am

    Mo will have a serious sit down with Joe Girardi and Dave Eiland to discuss the way he’ll be used.
    Last season was a poor indication of what Mo has been all about. Torre used him wrong for the 1st 6 weeks of the season and he was out of his rhythm which won’t happen again.

  240. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 7:41 am

    Tommy:

    I really doubt that A-Rod has changed and I’m pretty convinced that Boras is the source of these stories. You have King and Sherman at the Post and Loopy Lupica at the Daily News reporting this “buzz” from Miami. These are the big Yankee guns at the Post and News, people with Boras number on speed dial and vice versa.

    Boras needs to get the pinstriped door open again. Talking to the Tampa Trio through the paper instead of on the phone is one way to get the Yankees back into the bidding, albeit via the back door. That makes this story just a bargaining ploy with no legs for an A-Rod return.

    But it could make sense for both sides to do this little dance if they actually wanted to get back together. Boras and the Tampa Trio all have to save face. Boras can’t call directly because that looks like groveling. And even if Boras called, the Yanks couldn’t seem very open to it because the Yankees have said, “You insulted us, you opted out and we’re moving on.” So, if the front door is closed, try the back door?

    IMO, the only way this would work is if A-Rod committed to Hank that he would stop listening to other offers at least for a brief period while they try to get back to where the Yankees were when A-Rod opted out. If A-Rod agreed to a period of exclusive negotiating, Hank might talk to him again.

  241. Mark November 14th, 2007 at 7:42 am

    A-Rod eating humble pie and against the wishes of Scott Boras would gain him credibility in NY or wherever else he signs.
    The greed of Boras is catching up to him and it was only a matter of time before it happened. It’s time for A-Rod to become his own man and tell his agent what he truly wants to do.

  242. TurnTwo November 14th, 2007 at 7:43 am

    Buster Olney was on Mike and Mike this morning talking about ARod. He actually predicted that ARod would be the 3B for the Yankees come opening day 2008. However, he added that the only way that was going to happen was if ARod went to Tampa, ASAP before they find a new 3B, and basically met witht he Steinbrenners and agreed to a deal while going around Boras to do it.

  243. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 7:47 am

    But if A-Rod returns, doesn’t that make it less likely Cash can afford to sign Santana to an extension and still remain committed to being more financially flexible?

    I’m torn because I know Cash has his plan. But I also think that Hank and Hal will do whatever it takes to give their ailing father one more WS before he loses it completely. A son’s loyalty to his sick and possibly declining dad is a powerful thing, powerful enough to overcome most other concerns.

  244. Tommy November 14th, 2007 at 7:52 am

    Murphydog:

    Thanks for the take.
    I know these sources can be dubious, especially Lupica!

    I guess it is just wishful thinking on my part.
    While down on Arod in the past, i don’t want Lowell on the Yanks. I know that Cabrera would mean trading prospects we’ve spent years waiting for.

  245. Tommy November 14th, 2007 at 7:58 am

    Wouldn’t Arod returning make an attempt at Santana less necessary.

    I’m also not convinced that Santana is worth the $ being bandied about.

  246. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 7:59 am

    If A-Rod returns that does not mean he went around the wishes of Boras. The two of them would have just changed strategies, that’s all. Testing the market is just that: testing. There are no guarantees as to what the results of that test will be. Boras had to have plan B ready for a negative response.

    But to make the test real, Boras needed to find a way to make other owners feel like they were in the running, like they were players. The only way to see whether there were other offers was to make it look like A-Rod really believed there were, that A-Rod firmly believed that he could do better than the Yankees offer and thus make the other owners believe it too. But it may not have worked. Was it worth a shot to find out, if possible success meant another $100 million or so over the Yankee offer? A-Rod and Boras thought so.

    Having tested the market and found it wanting for other suckers, er, bidder, Boras will just figure out a way to try to revive the last best offer he had (or almost had). In the world of high rollers, lawyers and big money negotiations, nobody is shy and nobody really can afford to take anything personally. I’ll never be able to understand it myself, but that’s the way it is for the people in that world.

    Maybe Rod does come back after all if they can find a way for both sides to save face.

  247. pat November 14th, 2007 at 8:03 am

    I don’t know about the guys at the Post but Lupica is anything but on Boras’ speed dial. The 2 have been at odds forever and have bashed each other publicly many times. I don’t see Lupica as trying to do A-Rod or Boras a favor ever.

    There aren’t many people who are closer to A-Rod than Boras. If this is being leaked from people in Miami the only ones with any credibility would be his family or someone he has known since childhood.

  248. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 8:03 am

    An ace, whether it is Santana or not, is still necessary because even with A-Rod they didn’t get past the ALDS. If they had to choose – - and with their money, the Yankees may not have to choose – - the problem needing most attention this off-season is not A-Rod, it’s reliable, stopper type pitching.

  249. Madison Avenue talking ... November 14th, 2007 at 8:12 am

    There is nothing to prevent A-Rod from firing Scott Boras as his agent and hiring a reasonable agent (Arn Tellum ?).
    He would still get a mammoth contract but not the insane amount that Boras seems to think he’s worth.
    Other players have fired agents before and came out of it happy.
    Boras doesn’t take into account how much more a player can make off the field by playing in New York.
    Of the 50 highest paid athletes in North America, 6 are Yankees including endorsements. As expected, Tiger Woods sits at No. 1.

  250. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 14th, 2007 at 8:13 am

    Was anyone listening to 660 this morning. They started to do a sports update on Alex and Andy, and started laughing and doing a Hank imitation. Than went on to talk about weight. I can’t stand listening to them. Any how what is the story on Andy? Are they picking up on what the sportscaster from ABC said?

  251. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 8:13 am

    pat:

    Don’t get me wrong. Having Boras’ number on speed dial doesn’t mean Lupica likes him. But a good story for Lupica is a good story for Boras right now and Lupica is in the sports writing business after all (at least sometimes).

    Lupica can slam Boras all he wants, but Lupica cannot risk letting his personal feelings keep him out of the loop. Similarly, while Boras may not like getting raked over the coals by Lupica, it’s still Scott’s job to get the message out for his client and Lupica is high profile, respected, widely read, attention getting way to do it.

    Thus, they have to talk to each other even if they might not like each other. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

  252. Tommy November 14th, 2007 at 8:15 am

    Yes, pitching is an issue for the Yanks.

    I just think the $ numbers I’ve heard are ridiculous.
    If he had pitched to the 04-06 years while with the Yanks, then I would feel differently about signing him and rewarding him.

    But a trade and extension for a potential FA at those years and $? No thanks.

  253. SJ44 November 14th, 2007 at 8:17 am

    Pat is right. Off the top of my head, I can think of only two people (other than Arod himself) who are closer to him than Scott Boras.

    Maybe Arod is Lupica’s source! lol

    Unless Arod himself told one of those guys who to call, I doubt they would get involved.

    Sounds to me two scenarios could be at play:

    1. Murphs scenario. Boras doesn’t have the market he suspected (or Arod doesn’t want to go to the team Boras wants him to go to) and is looking to re-engage the Yankees in talks to re-engergize the Arod Market.

    2. Arod realizes the Yankees are serious about talking to Mike Lowell and realizes his window for making up with the Yankees is closing rapidly.

    From the Yankees perspective, they are in a tough spot. If they open negotiations with Boras, he just shops their deal and the Yankees get played. If they play hardball, they have to come up with a reasonable alternative. Especially, with the money they are throwing around to Rivera and Posada.

    About the only way this can possibly work out (Arod returning) is, Arod has to do what Andruw Jones of the Braves did several years ago.

    Jones, a Boras client, wanted to stay with the Braves. Boras wanted him to go elsewhere. Jones and his father ended up backdooring Boras, met with the Braves without him, and worked out a deal.

    For Arod to do that, it would take a monumental about face in the way he conducts his business and his life. It also means, he takes the offer the day the Yankees present it to him. That’s what John Schueholz did with Jones and it worked.

    I guess anything could happen but, it would be shocking if that took place.

  254. TurnTwo November 14th, 2007 at 8:22 am

    it sets up to where ARod could simply agree to arbitration, and then both sides could work out a long term deal.

    this way, the yankees save face by not ‘pursuing’ him during FA like they said they wouldnt, and ARod publically says, without saying, that he made a mistake and wants to be a Yankee. once they sit down at the arbitration table, they can work out a longer term deal. if this were to occur, however, taking into consideration what $$ the Yankees lost with ARod opting out, I would expect the Yankees to offer a lower AAV for the contract, and maybe give mutual options at the end of the deal that could extend it longer than they were originally, reportedly going to offer.

    and, if ARod comes back, they have the lineup that scored a league-best million or so runs, and now they have a full year of hopefully a healthy, young staff.

    they can hold onto their prospects, and allow younger players who are close another year to develop rather than rush them to the majors to try and help.

    i just worry about the reception ARod would receive at the stadium should he actually return.

  255. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 14th, 2007 at 8:23 am

    Lupica actually wrote a nice article on Jorge :) Go check it out.

  256. murphydog November 14th, 2007 at 8:23 am

    Madison Avenue talking …:

    A-Rod could fire Boras, but why? This saga is far from over. He’s still in the running for the biggest contract of all time, even if it appears to some he will have to eat crow to get it from the Yankees. I highly doubt A-Rod has suddenly had an epiphany. He may just be changing tactics to get the Yankees to appear to be back in the bidding or he could really want to get back to NY.

    All Rod would have to do is point to all the quotes saying he loved NY etc. and say that he felt that the Yankees were a little unreasonable by saying all year that he couldn’t opt out. It was his right and the Yankees knew it. So, A-Rod will cop to being a little headstrong and the other side will say they got a little heated, as happens in any marriage of strong willed individuals, and cooler heads are now prevailing. Think of it as a trial separation after a big fight and a reconciliation for the sake of the kids, er, fans. They could all be shaking hands by Opening Day. I’m not saying it will happen but it could. Or this could just be the latest Boras ploy to drive up A-Rod’s price. Either way, it doesn’t require A-Rod to fire Boras.

  257. Doreen November 14th, 2007 at 8:44 am

    Well, this morning’s Star Ledger’s story was that the Yankees are going hard after Lowell. So, if anything’s going to happen with ARod, it’s going to have to happen pretty soon.

    I’m loathe to believe these “rumors” and information from “undisclosed sources who are close to ARod.” However, this scenario has been floated in one form or another almost since the second he opted out. Wait, no, from the second the bad reviews from the opt-out started pouring in. Who knows?

    I’m just hoping that Mariano signs on the dotted line before the weekend. And put me in the camp of people who are a little skeptical of trying to trade for Johan Santana.

  258. ND Yank November 14th, 2007 at 8:46 am

    Here’s a quote right from the horse’s mouth(Hank). Quite a bit different form his tough guy stance a few weeks ago. So there is some smoke to this story and it’s just not all a reporters guess.

    “Whether something did happen or not,” Steinbrenner said of a Rodriguez return, “I am not going to comment on that situation.”

  259. GreenBeret7 November 14th, 2007 at 8:50 am

    Pat is right. Off the top of my head, I can think of only two people (other than Arod himself) who are closer to him than Scott Boras.

    Maybe Arod is Lupica’s source! lol

    Unless Arod himself told one of those guys who to call, I doubt they would get involved.

    Sounds to me two scenarios could be at play:

    1. Murphs scenario. Boras doesn’t have the market he suspected (or Arod doesn’t want to go to the team Boras wants him to go to) and is looking to re-engage the Yankees in talks to re-engergize the Arod Market.

    2. Arod realizes the Yankees are serious about talking to Mike Lowell and realizes his window for making up with the Yankees is closing rapidly.

    From the Yankees perspective, they are in a tough spot. If they open negotiations with Boras, he just shops their deal and the Yankees get played. If they play hardball, they have to come up with a reasonable alternative. Especially, with the money they are throwing around to Rivera and Posada.

    About the only way this can possibly work out (Arod returning) is, Arod has to do what Andruw Jones of the Braves did several years ago.

    Jones, a Boras client, wanted to stay with the Braves. Boras wanted him to go elsewhere. Jones and his father ended up backdooring Boras, met with the Braves without him, and worked out a deal.

    For Arod to do that, it would take a monumental about face in the way he conducts his business and his life. It also means, he takes the offer the day the Yankees present it to him. That’s what John Schueholz did with Jones and it worked.

    I guess anything could happen but, it would be shocking if that took place.

    Perhaps the one player on the Yankees that he was closest to? Doug Mientkeiwicz. They are childhood friends and high shool team mates.

  260. Dee November 14th, 2007 at 8:53 am

    No posts from Pete at 3am?? Somethings’s wrong, call the cops!

  261. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 14th, 2007 at 8:56 am

    Doug is not signed next year. It doesn’t appear the Yankees will bring him back.

  262. Truth for Freedom November 14th, 2007 at 8:57 am

    When you look at the Yankee’s options, and I am sure that is part of what went into the decision Boras and A-Rod made, they will either have to seriously downgrade their offense by signing Mike Lowell _(bad move IMO) or trade young players that are showing a lot of promise for the future (even worse move, IMO)

    So A-Rod and Boras felt they had the Yankees in a hard spot, they did up to a point, and the Yankees knew it. They both were playing hard ball. I don’t think Boras really believed the Yankees wouldn’t talk or go after A-Rod.

    It could very well be that A-Rod wants to remain a Yankee, though with him, who knows. Boras always works to isolate his clients from the negotiations, by A-Rod not talking to the Yankees, it is the same situation, only this time it was leaked and made A-Rod look bad. Probably worse than he ever intended.

    Boras forgot that one of his jobs is to make his client look the best he possibly could. They took a chance, and found a dominate will not playing their game.

    In the end, if A-Rod were to come back to the pinstripes, he would be forgiven. There are a ton of ways to spin it so both sides save face, the real question is if both sides are willing to meet half way.

    BTW, these two articles are only echoes of other rumors that have been going on with A-Rod and the Yankees talking. Boras might not have leave to talk about it.

    Also, how does anyone know that there aren’t others, such as maybe some of his team mates from this past season, who are closer to A-Rod now than the agent who helped make him look like a horse’s a**?

  263. GreenBeret7 November 14th, 2007 at 8:59 am

    jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
    November 14th, 2007 at 8:56 am
    Doug is not signed next year. It doesn’t appear the Yankees will bring him back.

    Yes, I understand, but, he still has connections to the team, and, even Mienkeiwicz’ return wouldn’t surprise me that much.

  264. Ranting Guy November 14th, 2007 at 9:10 am

    I can’t believe when I read how many people have wanted to trade Matsui away. If he hits “only” .295/23/110 next year that’s actually a good year and I think he’ll do better than that. He should be able to cover more ground in the OF than last year after getting his knee fixed too. Will he ever be a 25 year old Andruw Jones or a 29 year old Bernie Williams? No. But neither will either of those guys.

    How about Torii Hunter? Hunter needed Matsui to be injured to put up offensive numbers almost as good as Matsui. And Melky’s going to be a better defender over the next 4 years than Hunter. That’s not based on hunter’s past reputation but that over the next 4 years Hunter will be aging whereas Melky will be maturing.

    Off season position player moves should be minimal. 1B & 3B are the weakest spots now, not all 3 OFs, 2B and backup OF.

    I read something about Bernie just weighing the possibility of playing for Tore in LA. I remember how many people wanted to see a fading Bernie return this past year. If many of the same people who want to dump Matsui want to bring Bernie back (he’ll be 39, not 33, which is Matsui’s age now and an age when Bernie himself was still good) or bring Hunter in, then I’ll just wait until the end of spring training to engage in any blogging… when there’s actual baseball to talk about.

  265. randy l. November 14th, 2007 at 9:22 am

    “Nobody could claim that we haven’t made a substantial offer – unless they’re crazy,” Steinbrenner said…”
    hank has such a way with words. his negotiating style is like the proverbial bull in a china shop.
    that said, the offer to rivera is a good one, it is fun to watch yankee brass squirm when things don’t go as they expect. i would love to see mo take a trip out to visit the dodgers just to listen to all the stupid things hank would say in response.
    hank vs. rivera on who ‘s going to blink first.
    my money’s on mo.
    but when all the fun is finished, he’d better be a yankee. i expect he will be. he may want the fourth year just because. cashman continues to pay the price for his instransigence last winter.
    the yankees should send him a bill for what he’s cost them for his simplistic no extensions policy. i hope cashman makes note of this for the future when he’s in a simlilar situation.this is one reason why i like seeing posada and rivera hold cashman up. maybe the more painful it is for him , the more he’ll learn to be more flexible in the future.

  266. pat November 14th, 2007 at 9:24 am

    I wasn’t thinking about Mientkiewicz when I said people from his childhood but I guess that’s a possibility too. Was thinking more about his HS coach and the guy from the Boys Club of Miami that he seems very close with or some of the Miami area players who he works out with in the offseason.

    A little off topic- I know some people prefer to believe that everyone hates him and he’s a “clubhouse cancer” (I hate that phrase) but I read yesterday that A-Rod was one of the first people to congratulate Braun for his ROY win. Braun said A-Rod is a mentor to him and it was great to hear that he was proud of his accomplishment. He does seem to play nicely with the kids and they seem to enjoy being around him too. Miguel Cabrera should give A-Rod a call this winter and see if wants to workout with him. Miguel following A-Rod’s workout routine could produce an even more amazing ball player.

  267. SJ44 November 14th, 2007 at 9:41 am

    Braun and Arod worked out together at the University of Miami when Ryan was there.

    Arod helped him make the transition from high school SS to college third baseman.

  268. GreenBeret7 November 14th, 2007 at 9:52 am

    I wasn’t thinking about Mientkiewicz when I said people from his childhood but I guess that’s a possibility too. Was thinking more about his HS coach and the guy from the Boys Club of Miami that he seems very close with or some of the Miami area players who he works out with in the offseason.

    A little off topic- I know some people prefer to believe that everyone hates him and he’s a “clubhouse cancer” (I hate that phrase) but I read yesterday that A-Rod was one of the first people to congratulate Braun for his ROY win. Braun said A-Rod is a mentor to him and it was great to hear that he was proud of his accomplishment. He does seem to play nicely with the kids and they seem to enjoy being around him too. Miguel Cabrera should give A-Rod a call this winter and see if wants to workout with him. Miguel following A-Rod’s workout routine could produce an even more amazing ball player.

    Perhaps he gets along with the younger players like Cano, Cabrera and Braun better than the veterans, because the kids aren’t jealous or concerned about Rodriguez thating away any of the spotlight.

  269. GreenBeret7 November 14th, 2007 at 9:55 am

    *taking away any of the spotlight.

    I really wish they’d put in a correction button to correct spelling errors so people wouldn’t think I was illiterate instead of just a bad typist.

  270. saucy November 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    GreenBeret7, i can’t tell where your quotes start and your actual comments begin…

  271. The Fallen Phoenix November 14th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Somebody asked before why a point that Rivera was the 12th best closer out of 30 meant he deserved top dollar.

    Just to clarify, the ranking I provided was not a ranking of CLOSERS, but of ALL relievers–and just because you are a closer DOES NOT make you the best reliever on your team. Joe Borowski was NOT the best reliever out of the Indians bullpen, at best he was the third or fourth best reliever.

    Indeed, the way baseball closers are used now means they don’t *have* to be the best relievers on their team, because chances are the most important, high-leverage late inning is actually going to be the 7th or 8th, rather than the 9th, particularly in a close ballgame.

    …the situation is a lot more complicated than that, though. And even when you consider Rivera relative all the other closers in the league, while he might only have been the 12th best reliever in all of baseball, he was definitely in the top 10, and I think even the top 7, of all closers in all of baseball by that metric.

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