Busy day of baseball news
-
- November
- 16
Man, I go see one Bruce Springsteen concert and Barry Bonds is headed to the slammer and A-Rod signs for 10 years. Interesting how the home run king and his eventual successor get intertwined.
Meanwhile, I received this e-mail from the Yankees while I was gone:
Yankees manager Joe Girardi is down in the Dominican Republic this week. He had dinner with Yankees senior Latin staff and visited the coaches on Tuesday. This morning (Wednesday) at the Yankees Latin Beisbol Academy, he gave a speech to the Latin coaches and staff followed by an interactive talk with 55 Latin players and eight players from the ‘06 and ‘07 draft. He then watched a Dominican Instructional League game against Toronto and viewed tryouts.
So in a span of two weeks, Girardi was at the GM Meetings and then spent time with the staff and players in the Dominican. This is why Brian Cashman wanted Girardi, so he could have a manager heavily involved in development.
Joe Torre managed the 25 guys in the majors. Girardi is clearly going to have input in all facets of baseball operations. It’s an interesting dynamic.
OK, back to vacation.
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on Friday, November 16th, 2007 at 2:29 am by Peter Abraham.
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need to get Andy and Mo stitched up and then focus on the bullpen and we are ready for pitchers and catchers…
the only thing that is still disconcerting is that it will be basically the same team that imploded three straight years, although if they won this coming season you would have to look at Torre on some level as the cause
it was an ugly situation, but i’m thrilled to have girardi instead of torre. sometimes you need change for the sake of change.
And that at 2:30 in the middle of the night…
Nice for us Europeans when we get updates during work hours.
Have a nice vacation Peter!
Hopfefully Girardi is talking to Mo while he’s down there…
Peter…lol….you really make me laugh…I hate to be the bearer of badenews but Joe Torre never made his players practice….Joe Girardi is going to take a page out of the Yakyu….we will not make the fielding errors that the 2007 Yankees made…Girardi willl not stand for it…
Torre was so 20th century. Giradi is the prototypical manager for the new baseball millennium.
I hope Pettite re-signs with the Yankees. His appearance in the rotation would help a lot with the young players in the rotation. I don’t think Rivera is coming back. His ego will get in the way of him re-signing with the Yankees.
Since when the hell did Mo ever have an ego? Hes one of the most soft spoken individuals in the game.
Rivera has an ego since he hasn’t accepted 3 yrs $45 million.
It’s really his id.
I’m very excited about the future of the team with Girardi.
Signing Rodriguez, Posada and Rivera are nice. Getting Pettitte to come is a good thing. But the 2008 Yankees NEED Doug Mientkiewicz. When is this going to get done? He will challenge Lou Gehrig’s records next year if Cashman and the Young Elephants don’t blow this.
Are the YES film editors splicing A Rod’s face back into the “Centerstage” montage they had removed last week. That when he is removed from the non-person list.
Pete,
Well, if you had to miss some news for a Springsteen show, from what I’ve heard, you saw a great show! Sandy and the E Street Shuffle?! I went to the rehearsal shows, but I’m jealous!
Looks like we got the right Joe.
The A Rod deak does not even get its own entry? The Yanks sign the best player in the world and this is what you post? You’re unbelievable.
Bob: Give Pete a break. He’s on vacation. He could be posting nothing at all.
Why do so many people taunt him, yet continue to post on his site?
Administrative Law Judge’s order in the ongoing dispute between NYS Tax and Finance and Derek S. Jeter:
http://www.nysdta.org/Determinations/821646.ord.htm
All I can say is that if they are targeting Jeter for making “I love NY” statements, “immersing himself” in NY, and buying a posh place in NYC, A-Rod might just as well ask the Steinbernners to make out his first paycheck to the NYS tax man.
I’ve got a good feeling about Girardi-
he’s got the fire in his belly, he’s hands-on, analytical. A little bit Piniella, a little bit Torre (a little bit rock ‘n roll, etc.)
Pete,
Have a great (and well-deserved) vacation. Thanks again for all the hard work you’ve put into this. Come back refreshed and rearing to go.
jim
So far this is the same team, but the Yankees had a great second half of the year. That is when the kids came up. This year we start with them up. Maybe we build on that and dont get off to such a bad start.
Murphydog:
Thanks for that link.
I read somewhere that NY claims you are aresident if you are ‘domiciled” for 183 days or more. It seems to get murkier if you are a NYC resident.
Funny, if he ever has to meet the taxman, he’ll probably be in line with a bunch of seniors.
Favorite Hank quote of the day via Kepner, NYT:
“these are not incentive bonuses…..Its a horse of a different color.”
As a Horse Racing fan, I like all the references.
Re the AROD dealings:
Seems every sentence I read begins with “Alex and Cynthia”.
Jeeez, talk about spinning their polyannish marriage dynamic.
Finally, thanks for the Girardi take, Peter.
Its becoming more and more clear why they eanted him as manager.
Now, if you tell me he’s bilingual(Spanish), I’ll be truly impressed!
I don’t know if this was mentioned before but according to the NyDailynews
“MOLINA AGREES: The Yankees and backup catcher Jose Molina reached an agreement on a two-year, $4million contract.”
Anyone else think 2 million for a backup catcher is too much?
I really love Donnie, but Joe G was the right guy. He’s a hard charger and will take bigger responsibility for more than just winning that night’s game (and thereby putting bullpen at risk etc.). Cash now has a partner to help develop the team and organization with an eye for what’s needed in the future. I like the way things are working here.
I think a 2 year deal for Molina is the way to go, personally. You know what you have, and he’s comfortable in the role and wants to be here, and away we go.
FYI, for those who are interested. From Baseball America:
United States (A1) vs. South Korea (B4) (6 p.m.)
Righthander Jeff Karstens (Yankees) will get the start for Team USA, which last won a gold medal at the World Cup in 1974. Karstens, who was hurt for a significant portion of 2007 but spent most of his time in Triple-A and the majors, has pitched six scoreless innings at the World Cup. Johnson said righthander Matt Wright (Royals) would likely be the starter for the team’s next game.
I read that while Girardi was in the DR he had lunch with Mo and felt pretty confident that Mo would be back. Joe has already shown why the Yankees chose him to manage – he’s aggressive and won’t stand for players coming into camp out of shape, and if they are, they’d better whip themselves back into shape pretty quick. He’s a real hands on kind of guy, definitely a different approach than Torre had, and if there are changes to be made, Girardi will see it all with a fresh eye. PS to whoever brought up the A-Rod face missing from the Center Stage promos – yeah, he looks way better than Damon with that stupid streaked hair! LOL
What is worse, Lying about sex or lying about using steroids???????
Thata way Joe!
Pete – these types of under the radar entries are what make your blog a must read….great work!
And this is why we would have been fools to miss out on Girardi to let Torre hang on for one more year. This guy is unbelievable….he’s gonna be such a postive force for this entire organization. We are incredibly lucky to have him on board.
Girardi is the right man at the right time. He can relate to the veterans and is prepared for the next generation of Yankees who don’t need a sleepy manager.
Joe Girardi will manage with fire in his belly and be in the game for every pitch. He’ll want to manufacture runs not just sit and wait for the big inning VIA the long ball only to let a lead slither away resulting in severe bullpen usage.
I will be back.
Lest anyone fall under the delusion that Barry Bonds has been targeted or singled out or whatever else the spin doctors, fools and Kool Aide drinkers from the Bonds camp might offer, consider one thing: From everything I have read on the subject, Bonds was promised immunity from prosecution for the underlying steroids use, purchase, possession charges so long as he testified truthfully. As a general rule, after a grant of immunity the only thing a witness can be prosecuted for is perjury or contempt. (Although in Bonds’ case there is a low level tax case still possible, but that’s for another grand jury and another day). Thus, had Bonds done what Giambi did, and owned up, there was a very good chance that this indictment would never have happened.
A person’s lawyer explains the concept of immunity very carefully, if the lawyer is any good, because a lawyer understands that the Government will not allow itself to be made a fool if, after giving away its underlying case, the witness repudiates the gift and throws it back at them. So now I question Bonds’ representation, like I questioned Boras’ advice to A-Rod.
Are lawyers who get involved in sports getting weak, overwhelmed and blinded by their client’s star power? Are lawyers to ballplayers just another category of lackey/personal assistant, celebrity wannabe to the likes of Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton? What happened to lawyers who would bring their clients reality, give them an injection of responsibility and respectability, help them see the right path – - or terminate their representation because they could not ethically proceed? A lawyer is not supposed to encourage a client to lie. And if you are surprised by your client lying, didn’t see it coming, you are supposed to remonstrate with your client and correct the misdeed. You are not supposed to say, “How do I know if he’s lying?”
In the end, Bonds and his lawyers threw away immunity like Barry tosses a caught fly ball into the stands on the third out. Now he’s going to be treated like any other tough guy who though he could spit in the US Attorney’s face and walk away. Deservedly so.
Hey Andy, I noticed you spelled your own last name wrong…
“Hey Andy, I noticed you spelled your own last name wrong…”
TurnTwo, good one! But give Andy a break he’s excited about the upcoiming season.
Yea, and I can’t spell “upcoming” either!
Thanks for all the great updates Pete, even while on “vacation.” It’ll be interesting to see what comes of the Jeter situation…
Why blame Bonds’ lawyers? Maybe they didn’t know he lied, or only found out after he testified. After finding out, their options are very limited.
Murphydog:
Good take as usual.
Except I don’t hink we can truly speak on Bonds’ state of mind while testifying.
Also. I am sure that our view re the US attorneys and DOJ differs. I’ leave it at that!
Agree to agree about The YAnks!
Sorry about the typos!
I can’t believe Jeter would ever make a mistake. The man is perfect and flawless. He’s got a lot of money and has done a lot for baseball. He should never have to pay these taxes. Jeter is better than everyone else I think. They should give him a pass. What other perfect classy guy is out there. He never does anything wrong in my book.
Bonds and Jeter Make a sad Day for baseball
Johnette Howard
11:41 PM EST, November 15, 2007
Even the commissioner had no warning about the broadsides that were about to smack baseball one after another Thursday. As an unsuspecting Bud Selig was cooing about the game’s financial health as two days of owners’ meetings were breaking up in Naples, Fla., word was leaking out that Derek Jeter may have to pay millions in back taxes to the state of New York for incorrectly claiming residency in tax-friendly Florida. A few hours after that, a blockbuster story was breaking in San Francisco about Barry Bonds.
Bonds’ attorney, John Burris, didn’t know his client had been indicted by a federal grand jury for lying about knowingly using steroids until he got the information in a phone call Thursday from The Associated Press.
“I’m surprised . . . I’ve got to call Barry,” Burris said, excusing himself.
Bonds is baseball’s Home Run King. Jeter is arguably the most respected player in the game. Though the problems that each faces are light years apart, the sight of the greatest home run hitter of all-time and a Yankees star long admired for his integrity getting lumped together in some very broadly defined category of cheater was another punch in the gut for baseball.
The sport’s popularity continues to defy the scandals that keep gnawing at its core. But you have to wonder who or what is safe to trust about the big-league game anymore.
Jeter may have to do little more than pay off his back taxes and his lawyers if he loses his case. Bonds could go to jail on charges of obstruction of justice and four counts of perjury.
Jeter’s tax squabble is the first career embarrassment for a man who’s carefully cultivated his pristine image. But Bonds’ saga long ago became a parable about myriad things. Thursday just brought the end game closer.
If it’s true that Bonds knowingly used steroids or human growth hormone, as federal authorities allege, it could make Selig seriously consider vacating Bonds’ slugging records.
By the time special investigator George Mitchell makes his report to Selig on drug use in baseball, Selig may have to justify why the record-book cleansing should stop at Bonds.
For now, all those snarling promises that Bonds made about his innocence suddenly look even more grandiose and delusional. His ability to excel through four years of hounding by the feds was an even more monumental exhibition of will and gall and anger than it seemed at the time. Again and again, he dared them to charge him. With every home run he smacked, a sneering Bonds seemed to be saying, “Take this. And this and this … ”
Never failing a drug test was always Bonds’ fig leaf until now. But if he’s found guilty of that, too, life in limbo finally ends for him. His story will complete its migration from melodrama to tragedy. He’ll be remembered as The Natural who really didn’t have to cheat, a man who seemed to have everything but blew it, a contrarian whose defiance wasn’t enough to outlast the truth or a government agency bent on prosecuting him. His career probably ended Thursday and it wasn’t his choice.
Bonds’ involvement with the BALCO drug lab also has highlighted the Faustian bargains that world-class jocks will cut to make history or ensure success. He’s become a fable about the way anyone’s vanity and ambition can eclipse good sense.
The government’s four-year-long pursuit of Bonds, even as his white contemporary Mark McGwire lives a quiet life in self-imposed exile because of suspicions about his slugging achievements, has raised questions about whether Bonds is being selectively targeted because of his unpopularity or because of his race.
It was an ugly day for baseball in every way. When Selig weighed in late in the day, his tone was grave. The Home Run King could be toppled. The most venerated shortstop since Cal Ripken might be too good to be true. It was almost fitting that Alex Rodriguez, the slugger who could eclipse Bonds on the home-run list and Jeter on his own team, was also in the news for something that looked benign compared to everything else haunting baseball.
All A-Rod did was close in on a a 10-year, $275-million deal that makes him more filthy rich.
more in /sports/baseball
DadinIowa:
One of a lawyer’s jobs is to investigate thoroughly. That’s done not to incriminate the client, but to serve the client as well as possible by knowing what evidence is out there and how strong the prosecution’s case is. When a grant of immunity is made it is made very narrowly with clearly defined lines regarding certain facts and evidence and potential charges. That also is a big clue to what cards the Government is holding.
Bonds’ lawyers had to be aware of all the BALCO paperwork, the likely testimony of Greg Anderson, they had to have read Game of Shadows. After interviewing the client and hearing his answers, combined with the size of Barry’s head and all the rest, Barry’s lawyers couldn’t have walked away believing him. In my experience no lawyer is that dumb unless it’s on purpose. Believe me, they knew he was lying.
But let’s assume for the sake of argument that the lawyers only found out that Bonds lied after he lied. I say “assume” because a lawyer cannot ethically subborn perjury, that is, put forth a witness they have reason to believe will lie under oath. As for the reason to believe he is lying, see, e.g., the size of Barry’s head and Game of Shadows.
A lawyer’s options are indeed limited upon realizing only after the fact that the client lied under oath. Yet the attorney’s duty is clear: encourage the client in the strongest possible terms to come forward to correct the lies. If the client refuses, the lawyer may have to consider asking to be relieved from representing the client further.
even if a player chooses Fla , Texas ,Nevada etc any No state tax
they still get hit , but its called “Jock Tax” and basically its tax on money they earn while they play road games
in short, they get hit in each city,
In Major League Baseball, the athlete is considered to be paid from the beginning of spring training to the end of the regular season—roughly 220 days. If the player earns a salary of $1 million, that number is divided by the 220 duty days and the player is considered to earn $4,545 per duty day. If he visits San Francisco for a four-game stand, California will tax him on the income earned while he was in the state, which comes to $4,545 per day over four days, or $18,180. At the state’s approximately 9 percent marginal rate, the athlete might pay $1,636 in California state income tax for the four-day stand in San Francisco.
The player can catch a break if he lives in a no state tax state, and this can give teams in no state tax,cities an advantage when it comes to signing free agents
this info is a few years old from when Arod was on Texas Rangers
“Case in point: because Rodriguez resides in no-income tax states (Florida and, now, Texas) and plays half of his games in no-tax Texas, he avoids paying a state income tax on at least half of his income. At $25 million a season, half of his salary comes to more than $12 million. If he avoids paying, say, a 3 percent state income tax on that amount, Rodriguez is saving $360,000 free and clear. That’s $3.6 million over 10 years.
I also read this morning that Joe toured the Dominican complex with Melky and Cano.
So he’s already met with a number of players already! I’m loving Joe G more and more.
Who knew Joe Girardi spoke Latin!
Pete forgot to mention that aliens landed in Central Park.
Bryant- I hope you are joking, they speak Spanish there.
23- Yeah it probably is alot for a back up catcher, but it shows how much respect and how much they wanted him back.
Wow even Andy doesn’t know how to spell his last name. lol
Thanks again Pete! Great to hear Joe G is getting that involved with player development!!! Now lets all hope he will light a fire under Damon all off season, so he shows up to ST in shape!!
Yes Jennifer it was a joke. Just making reference to the fact they used the word Latin 4 times in 2 sentences.
Another thing I love about your blog Pete is that I not only can discover the latest news on the Yankees but obtain information about products and services about which I never knew.
I now know that Westchester has its own fertility clinic. WHOO HOOO!!!
I can’t wait to tell my mom. Maybe, it will placate her this Thanksgiving to hear that her “30-yr-old un-married son” made an appointment for next Monday.
Thanks, Pete, you’re a godsend.
Is anyone here familiar enough with the Phillies organization to address the likelihood of us sending them Mussina?
I know they are looking for a starter, and I would not be surprised if Mussina accepted a trade:
1) It would keep him close to home in PA, and pitching for a contender
2) A year in the NL would likely shave a full run+ off his ERA, especially if he changes his approach in light of decreased velocity
3) It could tack a few years onto his career a la any number of exiled Al pitchers who couldn’t cut it in the junior circuit past a certain age
I’m thinking we could eat $6-8m of his contract in exchange for a handful of promising lower-level prospects, which might help keep us in at least a lower luxury tax bracket, and restock with some young position players.
One could argue that we need to get Andy back before making such a move, but that logic seems flawed. Moose does not “replace” Andy’s innings, durability, runs allowed, etc.
Thoughts?
Count, let’s wait until Andy decides about his future. Without him, the Yankees are going to need the Moose.
Even with him, they might need the Moose because the Yankees won’t allow Joba, Hughes, or IPK to exceed their inning totals of last year by 30. Which will confine Joba and Hughes to 170 and IPK to around 190 or so.
They’ll need to have a six starters regardless.
Schill, the only problem is that if Andy DOESN’T come back, Mussina to me seems even LESS tenable:
We’ll need a 5th starter who can eat innings and save the bullpen due to their increased workload when Joba, Hughes and IPK pitch.
The last thing we need the day after IPK gets pulled after 5 2/3 (CRISP!) innings is for Moose to come in and struggle through his typical 4 2/3 innings…
Moose isnt getting traded anywhere.
I dont think we’ll see Cashman make any moves with his current starting staff until he knows for sure what Andy Pettitte is doing.
Re: Johnette Howard
OK, put aside for a moment the fact that the Jeter tax case isn’t criminal. The case against Jeter is based on vague allegations of facts constituting the legal concept of “domicile.” You need a CPA and a tax lawyer to figure that one out conclusively since it is completely fact driven and case specific. It’s not solely about where you own a home or a place to live. Thus it’s fair to rely on your CPA’s advice as to the likely determination of your domicile, just as it’s fair to rely on your lawyer when he or she tells you what the Rule against Perpetuities means for your last will and testament.
But you don’t have to rely on your lawyer to know whether or not you’re lying.
Then there’s this gem: “The government’s four-year-long pursuit of Bonds, even as his white contemporary Mark McGwire lives a quiet life in self-imposed exile because of suspicions about his slugging achievements, has raised questions about whether Bonds is being selectively targeted because of his unpopularity or because of his race.”
It may have raised questions but they are easily answered. Giambi is white. The US Attorney targeted Giambi too, and gave him immunity so long as he told the truth. And he did. McGwire isn’t the only suspected juicer who has been left alone. Palmiero and Sosa, neither white, have not been prosecuted so far either.
The government gave Bonds IMMUNITY from prosecution. All he had to do was tell the truth and he would have faced NO charges. How is that a “pursuit” of Bonds? It’s not about race. It’s about being a liar. And Bonds is a liar.
But Andy will probably take until the New Year to decide, at which point many prospective trade partners will have satisfied their needs.
I agree w/ Schill that we will need six starters; I just don’t understand how Mussina fits into the plan with OR without Andy, given his inability to pitch deep into games.
In some more happy news, the Yankees have reportedly resigned Molina to a two year 4 million dollar contract.
He fits into the plan because he has a contract for 2008, and has a no-trade clause.
I THINK IF Santana goes on trade block, we will go after him, regardless of whether andy has made a decision. i also think if andy has not made decision by this time, santana’s acquisition, could be incentive for Andy to come back,because them n he will know what rotation will look like
Spring Training News
Yankees to open up Legends Field on Feb29 2008 versus Univ of South Florida at 1:15
No matter what you feel about Bonds, it’s still a witchhunt. Not because it’s unfounded (it is), but he’s the only one being pursued and with such venom. Four years to bring an indictment (which could have been brought 2 years earlier)? Millions of dollars to make a case? Sticking someone in jail for over a year because he refused to roll over for a childhood friend?
And the ironic part? They’re not bringing charges for taking steriods, but for lying about it and obstructing justice. Now, I’m not saying it’s right to do those things, but it seems so inconsequential compared to many other crimes that are not pursued with such “vigor”. Barry Bonds isn’t the only one to do PEDs and he’s not the only one to lie about it.
They will Finish 2008 ST in Miami taking on The Marlins in A-Rods back yard….March 28TH and 29TH.
March 17TH versus Boston at Legends Field
So the Yankees are taking a page out of the Soxs book and playing college teams.
I read/heard somewhere that the Marlins are forcing people who want the 2 st games to buy 4 other games from the season. Kinda stinks. They just love sticking their hands in Yankee fans pockets yet ‘itch and moan about the Yankees spending.
UtilityMan,
Any word on a game with Virginia Tech?
imagine that, a Yankee manager who works during the off-season.
with all due respect to Torre, i can’t believe people were opposed to this change.
this is beyond refreshing.
not sure which date, but they are Virginia Tech on way north at end of ST
Thanks, CPNYJ
Glad to see that the Yankees kept their word.
Why couldn’t the Yankees play the Phillies as their last st game
I went this year to Philly to see them play a st against the soxs.
Hey all…heard something interesting this morning. Does anyone this that A-Rod might want to get this deal signed and wrapped up because he is worried that his name is on the list of players who have taken steroids??? I don’t think it is true, but certainly would explain why he came running back to the Yankees!
mel
March 18th versus Virginia Tech Time is TBA and Location is TBA…but given that it will be chilly still in Virginia,my guess is that it will be in Tampa probably at 115PM.
Jennifer
I think it was Toronto or possibly that new ML team called the “RAYS” that did the same thing last yr…you want the Yankee ST game in our house?then you buy a ticket to see us play the Pirates as well…Hows That
tidbits:
The Yankees are also attempting to retain setup man Luis Vizcaino, who made a career-high 77 appearances this year and tied for the major-league lead with eight relief wins.
“Brian (Cashman) has expressed an interest in bringing Luis back,” agent Bean Stringfellow said, “and Luis has expressed an interest in coming back.”
Steinbrenner said catcher Jorge Posada passed his physical, so Posada’s four-year, $52 million deal should be finalized soon.
I heard the date but can’t recall
I know it was the middle of the week.
“And the ironic part? They’re not bringing charges for taking steriods, but for lying about it and obstructing justice.”
Well, yes, and our patriotic Republicans indicted the President for the same; but not, of course, a certain lying war criminal.
Joe G. was the right choice, the man is a DYNAMO, now just win baby.
NYTimes graphic – Arod’s potential HR timeline:
Graphic Link
Sorry, bad link – here’s one that works:
Better link
The Marlins are doing it as well. Someone called their ticket office and that is what they were told. I believe opening day was one of the games you had to purchase. They will announce attendence of 55,000 people, and you will see 5,000 in the stands. LOL
i thought the pt of the ST game with VT was to bring the Yankees to the VT campus? I would imagine the game would be in Virginia, but not sure how that works with the rest of the sched around that day (travel days around the game, etc).
To all that are interested
You can go to http://www.springtrainingonline.com
Click on Yankees…then click on 2008 Schedule
It is not up on Legendsfieldtampa just yet.
They do state that it is tentative….They play Philadelphia 4 times…and Detroit only once???Usually at least 4 times.
Sara,
I don’t think his name is on the list, not because he’s above reproach, but because Selig considers him to be the face of baseball now.
The stigma of steroids doesn’t seem to linger very long. As was in the steroid era, the needs of the teams will override any indignation at the use of steroids. Prime example: Indians announce a $7M deal with Paul Byrd even after it’s “leaked” that he was linked to HGH. The guy got his scrip from a dentist!
If anything the Yankees will dock Alex’s pay and say, “No go break that record!”
TurnTwo-
“He fits into the plan because he has a contract for 2008, and has a no-trade clause.”
This is tautological. A no-trade clause doesn’t mean we can’t trade him, it means he would have to approve a trade. Which is why Philly could be a possibilty. I addressed that in my first post.
Please read more carefully, thanks bye!
“I don’t think it is true, but certainly would explain why he came running back to the Yankees!”
no it doesn’t.
if it were, he never would have opted out in the first place.
the players who are guilty know it, and they’ve known it for months.
his name might be on the list, but i don’t think it explains his behavior at all. by opting out, he was essentially guaranteeing that his contract would take months longer to get finalized.
sometimes the simplest explanation is correct: he came back b/c he never wanted to leave in the first place but Boras PROMISED him the Yankees were bluffing.
i don’t even believe he came back b/c he didn’t think he could get more elsewhere b/c he initiated this about 10 days ago. the FA signing period hadn’t even started yet. i’m Boras was talking to teams, but if A-Rod really wanted to leave, he’d have waited and let his market develop. that’s what Boras does. see Zito, Barry.
The Marlins are hardly the first organization to do this. Last year, in order to purchase tickets to the Yankees/Mets game at Shea, you basically either had to get picked out of a ticket raffle, or buy seats through a 6 game pack.
the Yankees do the same thing with tickets when Boston comes to town. Once the initial sale of tickets is done, they’ll package a certain amount of seats in these packs, where you can see a game against the red saux, but only if you also buy the same seats when the Royals come into town on a Tues in Sept.
If Jeete doesn’t pay his taxes that the city says he owes, he’ll be Bonds roommate in the slammer
Could be wrong…but I dont see the Yankees boarding a flight to Virginia to play a ST game on Tuesday March 18Th,then return home to Tampa for a Luncheon on Wednesday March 19TH.Probably send all or most proceeds to the University for that game.
Do all the Yankee ST games at Legends Field sell out?
The NTC has everything to do with why he is in the plans for 2008.
Why would Moose want to go anywhere? He’ll make his money and get his innings in NY, and he doesnt have to worry about fitting into a new clubhouse, finding a new temporary home to live in during the season, etc… this is why players and veterans like moose bargain to have NTC in their contract.
he’s not going anywhere. he’s only signed for one more year, and you’ll just have to come to terms with it.
It looks like Mo either wants another year or more money but Hank isn’t going to up the deal to a fourth year.
According to the Times:
“They haven’t rejected it outright, as far as I know,†Steinbrenner said. “It’s pretty much known that they’re seeking a fourth year, or more for three years.
“I want him back, and that’s why the offer is as high as it is. We don’t have to change anything. Everyone in baseball knows it’s a great offer; we’ve even gotten a couple of complaints about it.â€
You need Moose because the rookies aren’t going to pitch 200 innings each. And only one of the three has had more than 3 starts at the major league level so it’s no guarantee they’re even going to stick. (Although IPK did very well in his 3 starts!)
Yes They do mel…...I see lines tahts extend very long outside the stadium,just for an opportunity for to buy a ticket.
I don’t get the witch hunt thing.
Bonds got immunity. That means the Government was willing to let Bonds walk on the underlying charges all along, provided he just told the truth. Giambi did it. That’s what a grant of immunity means. You cannot allow someone to walk away from perjury or call it persecution just because he wasn’t going to get indicted for the underlying crime. That would send the wrong message and encourage others to lie and expect not to suffer consequences.
The investigation cost what it cost in part because it was a paper case, not a street crime, and because of all the lawyers and high profile people involved. Another cost factor was Bond’s refusal to tell the truth, thus requiring lots of additional investigation and time in the Grand Jury.
Why does anyone think the indictment could have been brought two years ago? What benefit was there to delaying it, other than to pursue other avenues of investigation before settling on the perjury charge?
Finally, you stick someone in jail for refusing to testify because you do not want a society where people think it’s OK to refuse to tell the truth to a grand jury, regardless of your relationship to the target. Life goes on after Bonds and prosecutors return to the serious business of investigating murders, rape and other mayhem. There are going to be times that securing justice for a victim will mean witnesses must be forced to tell what they know or go to jail. Even though BALCO wasn’t about murder or rape, the rules still have to be consistently applied. We as a society really don’t want people thinking that if it was OK for Anderson, it’s OK for me.
I like the stance Steinbrenner is taking with MO, too. very pleased with the offseason, thus far.
Boras was looking for a 12 year contract for Arod…
no wonder GM’s were balking. yikes.
”...the Yankees believed that through negotiation, they would have split the difference on years with Boras — he wanted 12, they wanted 8, so they would have met in the middle.”
I don’t think he wanted to be a yankee. he never would have opted out in the first place. He would have gotten more money if he had negotiated with the Yankees before opting out. I think he realized that no one was going to pay that much money and that is why he came back.
let’s not forget that the yankees NEED Moose next year.
with all of the innings caps for the rookies, there are going to be about 150 innings that need to be soaked up by someone. Moose is the best option for those innings.
moose had that horrific 3 game stretch last year, but overall he wasn’t nearly as bad as everyone thinks.
outside of those 3 games, he was a league average starter. 4.50 ERA. those 3 game obviously count too, but it could be he was hurt.
Well, yes, and our patriotic Republicans indicted the President for the same; but not, of course, a certain lying war criminal.
Don’t got there, my friend. You’re out of your depth.
Oh man, this is frustrating.
Musinna pitched 152 innings last season, averaging 5.6 per start.
So I ask again, IN WHAT SENSE is he the answer to resting a bullpen that will have a heavy workload due to the regulated innings of the three kids???
please, no politics.
it’s bad enough debating the biggest wedge issue in america: Alex Rodriguez.
I disagree Sara, I don’t think you’re factoring in the “boras” factor here. Reports indicate that Boras told Arod that even if he opted out, the Yankees would still be in play. But what they didn’t realize was that it wasn’t George making the choices, it was Hank. So arod made the move to re-engage the Yankees personally. Arod wanted to be a Yankee, but he wanted to be a $35 mil Yankee and Boras told him they would pay. They didn’t and Arod did what he had to to return.
Not that we have to shed a tear for the $27 mil man of course.
“So I ask again, IN WHAT SENSE is he the answer to resting a bullpen that will have a heavy workload due to the regulated innings of the three kids???”
umm, by starting every 6th game so the yankees can skip one of the rookies each time through the rotation.
pretty obvious, no?
Anyone know anything about Lowell? I heard in conversation around the water cooler, that he was really thinking about being a Yankee again
or, Moose wont start, and will work as a long man out of the pen himself.
or, Moose will start games, and one of the rookies will either work out of the pen (Kennedy, most likely), or start the season in Scranton, where his innings will be capped there.
murphydog,
Do you like Bonds as a person? What if he were a Yankee and the state of New York was doing this to him? Would you feel any differently?
What if your brother was in Bonds position? Or in Greg Anderson’s position? Would you still feel the same?
I understand all your points, but this kind of thing is so inconsequential in the scope of real life. There’s not a single adult on God’s green Earth who hasn’t lied. Do the feds prosecute every witness who has lied under oath? With this kind of furor and energy? That’s what makes it a witchhunt.
“You need a CPA and a tax lawyer to figure that one out conclusively since it is completely fact driven and case specific. It’s not solely about where you own a home or a place to live.”
murpheydog-
the way i understand it is everyone has a tax home according to the IRS. a person’s tax home isn’t determined by any one factor. factors are where you have a home, where you work, how long you’re at each, how much time you spend at each, etc. often the irs says one thing and you say another and it takes a federal tax court to decide. in other words there are no set rules.it takes a federal court decision to decide the specific case.
the state of new york is making it’s own decision separate from the IRS, but it would become an IRS issue too if jeter lost the new york case. if jeter says his tax home is florida on his federal income tax form, he’s surely deducting all his expenses away from his tax home in florida off of his income. that would be travel away from florida, lodging away from florida, baically all living expenses away from his florida tax home.
to complicate matters further, i’m pretty sure that players have to pay income taxes to each state they play games (that has income taxes). so if jeter played three games in milwaukee in an interleague game, he have a 3 game income tax bill with wisconsin.
so new york can’t hit jeter for that income because it’s earned in another state. jeter is obviously saying his home is in florida and he has to travel around the country to do his job. this would be just like any corporate executive who has to be on the road most of the time whose corporate headquarters were in new york.
i don’t think jeter would lose this by the time it worked it’s way through the courts and a ruling by the federal government that jeter’s tax home was florida would probably zap the state ruling. but it would make jeter look like a tax cheat which is probably the state of new york’s strategy here. they probably want to pressure him to settle and give them some money to avoid the embarrassment of being labled a tax cheat. it looks like legalized extortion to me.
if they can do it to jeter,think how easy it would be to do it to us regular people. to me it’s an abuse of state power. i don’t know how often the state of new york does this, but i know it’s been done before. i personally know of a player that the state of new york hit for back taxes on games he had played in new york while with another team.
with all the athletes who have florida as their tax home, this could be a huge issue if jeter lost. i’m sure tiger woods is looking at it with interest. think of all the places he earns money. there are too many mlb players living in florida filing the same way for jeter’s advisors to not know how to set up things. i think it’s just a transparent attempt by the state of new york to get some money from a yankee player .
i’ve heard a lot of those upstate new yorkers are red sox fans. that would explain it all.
The Yankees will not need a 5th starter until June. Both Hughes and Joba should start the season in AAA with strict IP limits (4 – maybe 5 innings per) and the Yankees using a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Kennedy, Moose, and a combination of (Igawa, Karstens, Rasner, or Clippard, or even Horne) to fill the occassional 5th when it comes up. In June, bring those two back up, drop starter-committee back to the minors and move Moose or Kennedy (the lesser effective one) into the long relief roll in the pen – with the notion that if the game is a blowout (winning or losing), the long reliever comes in to keep Hughes’ or Joba’s IP to a minimum. IMO anyway.
Give MO what he wants! Who is more deserving than MO! And just think Pavano (for Pete’s Sake) got 40 mill for 4 years of nothing!
On Mike and Mike this morning they said something I can relate to. Greeny said his 4 year old looked at him all excited when he came home last night and said Dad I heard that A-Rod is back. That same scene had already played out in my house with our 5 year old who told us , I’m glad A-Rod is Yankee so I can watch him play. I looked at my husband and asked at what age do they get jaded. For all the talk about money, contracts, personnel and indictments around baseball yesterday, it was a good reminder that what is important about baseball happens on the field.
Mel,
Yes. Most of the Legends Field games are sold out.
Murph,
Bonds is getting indicted for one, well two reasons. One, he is a jerk and two he is a bad liar.
On the first part, if he is was slightest bit humble or at least passable as a human being, he wouldn’t be getting indicted. Why? Because his mistress wouldn’t be testifying against him, nor would the national media rip him on a daily basis.
Two, the issue of lying to the grand jury and PROVING perjury are two entirely different deals.
Understand, I don’t condone lying to a grand jury. It certainly isn’t smart. However, to prove a perjury case, its pretty difficult. To prove this case? Its going to be very, very tough, IMO.
The fact the government needed two grand juries and 4 years to bring this case tells me its a weak case and they needed to show something for their 4 years of wasting taxpayer money in this pursuit.
What’s changed? Greg Anderson’s lawyer said he didn’t flip. The government has spent the last 4 years telling Anderson without him they have no case against Bonds. What’s different? Kimberly Bell, the mistress? She will get ripped to shreds on the stand. The supposed positive steroid test?
Let’s assume for a moment they have a positive test from Bonds and they are basing that as the centerpiece of the perjury case. That can easily be blown out of the water by the person who will probably be the defense’s star witness…..Victor Conte.
He will talk about all the ways you can achieve false positives in the testing program, how the sample can be mishandled, etc. The guy forgot more than most lab experts know about steroids, HGH, testing, etc.
To me, this is a case of bad guy (Bonds) who flaunted his arrogance so much the government has decided to try and make an example out of him.
All that is fine if you want that kind of behavior from your government.
Me? I think the government has more to worry about than pursuing a case against a jerk. But, that’s just me, I could be wrong.
The Jeter case is a bigger joke. If he was just a regular guy, nobody would be questioning his residency. Especially since he has spent most off-seasons based in Tampa since he was drafted by the Yankees.
The fact he makes a lot of money, makes him a target for state governments to scare the crap out of snowbirds who try and do the same thing Jeter is accused of doing. What a joke.
I think a 5-man rotation with each one of the rookies spending a good fraction of the season in the bullpen at different times.
I’m super excited about Joe Girardi. Planning to get a #27 jersey for opening day!
Mo is starting to make me real nervous. He’s my favorite Yankee but even I know his asking for a 4th yr is unreasonable for his age. Doesn’t his agent know the market? I’d be shocked if he can get a contract higher than 3/36 anywhere else.
According to the reports out there, the Braves, Phillies, Angels, and Cardinals are out (or were never in), only the Dodgers remain in play and the Sawx are not budging from their 3-40+ offer whereas the Yanks are (stupidly) offering him a 4-55 to 60 offer. Chances are starting to look good of getting another aging player for a long term deal that we will probably regret in 2 years.
Regarding Bond, when he testified he was in a no – win situation. Had he not lied, perjured himself, even though he was immune to charges from the government for steroid use, the testimony would have leaked out and that would have been used against him by Baseball to give him other woes.
He brought all this on himself though. He used PEDs most likely, as the evidence has a blood test from Balco showing levels of steroids it. He went after the biggest record of them all, the HR record. He alienated himself from the media and other players.
This case is similar to Martha Stewart’s case. It has some teeth, he will probably be convicted.
On the Jeter matter, each state have their laws determining what constitutes being made a resident of that state. If Jeter has documentation that shows he can be considered a resident of Florida, that trumps the NY case.
States love to go after high profile people, even if it comes out as nothing, because it makes other people leary of trying to avoid paying taxes.
Jeter might have a problem with the taxman, but I think it will be hard for NY to prove its case in a court if Jeter has others taking care of his taxes and finances.
As to A-Rod being named on the Mitchell report, Sara, I tend to doubt it. The speed of this is due to a couple of things. First and foremost its about his image. His actions have given some “proof”, at least on the surface, that he wanted to remain a Yankee. If you take into account the things he said through the year and this together, it paints the picture that he did.
Signing with a team quickly in hopes of having something in place for the Mitchell report would mean nothing. Contracts can be voided if its proven that he used steroids. Besides, this report has names on it, which will reduce salaries paid to those players who are on it, but the burden of proof falls on the accuser. This whole thing can turn into one ugly legal mess.
Have they overpaid for pitchers with a lack of result to show for it, with Pavano, RJ, Wright, etc? Yes.
Does that mean that they need to overpay Mo for his next contract going forward? No.
SJ,
Thanks!
Dee,
It has been said and I tend to agree that Mo would take less to play for someone else. That would be flipping off the Yankees Mo-style. This is all about respect for him.
I’m referring to Lowell BTW.
Hmmm—
Why would the Yankees prefer to run out Mussina for 5 innings and 5 runs instead of Joba for 5 innings and 1 run — just so Joba can pitch ten days later? The idea is to win games. Besides, we don’t even know how the kids would respond to that kind of layoff.
The point being that it would be ideal to find a (cheaper) Mussina who can go seven innings on a normal rotation. Ideally someone who could fit a long/swing-man role if Andy re-ups.
And unrealistic as it is, it’d be fun to keep the innings count down by trotting Phil out for 5 innings and Joba out for the next 4.
Mel,
Yankee spring training tickets go on sale the first week in January (2008 date TBD) and usually sell out within the first three hours. You can go to the Legends Field website to buy them.
The past two years I have been on-line when they do and was able to get decent seats for the game of my choice.
Another option is to go to the Rays, Phillies, or Blue Jays sites and buy tickets for their parks which are not far (I live part time within 5 miles of the Phillies and Blue Jays fields).
But of course IMO it is always better to see the Yanks at their park. Their is nothing like seeing the stands filled with Yankee gear wearing fans.
I know wants respect – but seriously – if 3 yrs and $45 mill freakin dollars isn’t enough respect fer craps’ sake ($4 mil higher than Wagners’ $10.5 mil contract) then I think it’s time for Cash to peruse the market for alternatives – even if they’re not as good as Mo.
If the Yankees sign Lowell its simply to remove him from the RS. That is a stupid move. It will anger RS fans though, which has some value.
I wonder if they would be taking on Lowell (if they get him) to use as a trade chip. Eating his salary and trading him might be what the thinking is, as his value is high right now. Even so, it doesn’t make sense unless there is a team out there that really wants him, has pitching they will trade for him. This whole thing just seems odd.
The aliens who landed in Central Park really were the driver behind the ARod signing.
The came in with an 9 year deal to play for Jupiter in the Galactic league for $300 million.
The problem was that a Jupiter year equals 1.5 earth years, so this was really a 6 year deal.
It was also unclear who would split the revenue for the homerun title, since it was unclear that ARod would actually hit 800 homeruns on a planet with gravity 2 times that of earth.
Goldman Sachs, which was negotiating a leveraged buyout of Saturn by Jupiter at the time, heard about the deal and encouraged ARod to speak to Hank Steinbrenner.
So Pete, your comment about aliens landing in Central Park was really a tremendous scoop.
Yanksrule,
Thanks! I don’t plan to go to any game (geographic constraints lol), but I figured that the Yankee games sell out. But 3 hours! I’m still irked that people think that the Red Sox are America’s team. Where were they all pre-2004? Damn bandwagon, pink cap fans.
Hey to you legal experts here…is Bonds’ perjury charge similar to what Martha Stewart did? meaning it’s not what they actually did (taking steroids, insider trading) but lying under oath about it to obstruct justice?
I always thought the government locked MS up for the sole reason to set a strong example.
Not make light of Jeter’s situation, but wouldn’t he have an accountant that advises him and takes care of these types of issues? I would think someone in Jeter’s position just trusts someone else with all of that, no?
Couple of things….
1. Don’t worry about Mo. That deal will get done. Nobody else is going to offer 4 years. The Yankees just need to hold their ground (which they will) and the deal will get done.
2. Signing Molina is HUGE. It gives them the best backup catcher since Jorge was backing up Girardi. He also is great working with young pitchers. You will overpay a little bit because of the shortage of good backup catchers (and catchers in general) in the game.
There were rumblings the Angels were thinking of bringing him back because Jeff Mathis was going to be included in a possible Miguel Cabrera deal. Its probably why the Yankees sweetened the pot a bit to get the deal done now. Good move, IMO.
3. Mike Mussina is not going to be traded. He is only going to play one more year, has a full no trade, and wants to finish as a Yankee. Plus, they will need 7 starters this season. Guys breakdown, have slumps, etc. Moose is going to be needed next year. I’d rather have too many starters than too few.
Going young is great but, you can’t go ALL young. Three of the 5 in the rotation is enough. Let’s not get crazy.
Good point Sunny up-thread re: no need for 5-man rotation until June.
I will drop this now, but I do hope Cash tries to move Moose. He’s too costly for the kinds of roles being discussed here. I would trust Kartsens or Rasner to give us more innings than Moose at this point.
I think, I hope the Yankees are just doing this to drive up the market. I hope they have no intention of signing him.
I agree sunny615.
I can’t see where Mariano didn’t get respect. Let him walk if he pushes too hard. He will have to give up a lot to do that. His number will have to change, won’t it? His legacy as a Yankee will be diminished a bit, but will eventually come back.
The 3rd year seemed a stretch, the 4th is absurd.
Mel,
I totally agree with you. Am not a big Bond’s fan, but there is something about this pursuit of him that is just wrong. I too feel he has been targeted, and rightfully so but there are many many others that should be part of the hunt and are not. Thanks for making your point.
When the Mitchell Report comes out and shows just how widespread steroid usage is/was in baseball will people stop caring about Barry Bonds?
“The point being that it would be ideal to find a (cheaper) Mussina who can go seven innings on a normal rotation. Ideally someone who could fit a long/swing-man role if Andy re-ups.”
well sure.
it would be fantastic to fing a young, cheap pitcher who can go 7 innings on a regular basis.
any ideas?
“I would trust Kartsens or Rasner to give us more innings than Moose at this point.”
You’re crazy. Karstens isn’t a MLB pitcher period.
SJ – good points on Molina. He is a good guy in the clubhouse as well and he really wants to be a Yankee. It is great having Molina to back up Posada, no worries.
Somebody here was crazy enough to say that $4M for 2 years was to much for Molina.
If we didn’t grab him, we’d have to look at the likes of … LoDuca!
Molina was truly shocked at how real the Yankees were. They are so typecast, it’s not even funny. I think he enjoyed his time here this season.
You want someone who you would trust if your main guy went down for the season (heaven forbid, just a worse-case scenario).
Great, great signing.
Looks like those who want to be here are stepping up.
Mel,
You’re welcome. If you can ever go you should. My son (who lives in Las Vegas) has convinced me we need to meet in NY and see a game this year because of being the last year of the old stadium. At first I thought no way, but when I thought about it, he has never been, and I haven’t gone to a game there since the 70’s (geographic restraints and military duties).
So I think we are going to go for it!
“Good point Sunny up-thread re: no need for 5-man rotation until June.”
except it’s not even remotely true, and i don’t know where you got this from.
in 2007, the yankees needed their 5th starter about 10 times in april and may.
Young pitchers can be brilliant or a bust. Trusting even three rotation spots to rookies is a big gamble.
Mussina will be needed. Pettitte will be needed, or some left hand starter should be brought in.
Karstens probably frightens me more than Rasner. Karstens is a fly ball pitcher who’s fastball has little to no movement. He gets exposed pretty quickly. Rasner is a bit better (we’re talking degrees here) but I think I’d rather give him a shot over Karstens at this point.
“in 2007, the yankees needed their 5th starter about 10 times in april and may.”
Hence the 5th starter by committee… or a 6 man rotation.
mel:
I understand you, but personal feeling about Bonds or Anderson have no place in the legal analysis, although they are fine for conversations like this. Decisions about who to charge and prosecute are supposed to be made by people without personal ties to the people in the case so the decisions are as objective as they can be.
True, many people have lied in their lives, but many fewer have lied under oath to a grand jury on a material fact and gotten away with it. Nor should they. I suppose we must tolerate self-interested lying in everyday life to varying degrees, but the rules change when you take an oath to tell the truth, don’t they? I hope we don’t disagree about that.
The federal prosecutors in this case are acting pretty predictably, not furiously. While it might not be unusual for a person already charged with a crime to lie under oath, it’s extremely rare that a person offered immunity from prosecution could be bold or dumb enough to lie. Think about it. The immunized person will not be prosecuted or charged with a crime as long as he truthfully answers the questions put to him under oath. And the feds go first, giving away their right to prosecute the underlying charges the minute the immunity agreement is signed.
With an immunity agreement in hand, Bonds’ did not live up to his end of the bargain. What were the feds supposed to do then, after offering and clearly explaining a deal where they give up their case against a person in exchange for the truth? Bond’s lies were an act that struck at the integrity of the criminal justice system, not to mention a venal, stupid and arrogant act. That’s why he’s been indicted.
“I wonder if they would be taking on Lowell (if they get him) to use as a trade chip. Eating his salary and trading him might be what the thinking is, as his value is high right now.”
you are not allowed to do this.
you must wait 6 months before you can trade a FA signing.
also, trading Lowell in 2008 would give him the right to request a trade after the season.
it’s not a realistic scenario at all. maybe in the NBA, not in MLB.
mel, I agree Mo deserves all the respect he can get. But didn’t he only want 2 yrs back in ST? Now Yanks are obviously making up for not extending then with 1 more year and substantially more per year than what he would have gotten. Shouldn’t that be enough? And I really hope Mo is not still making them pay for the Torre thing. I love Torre too but c’mon, let’s move on and Mo should know that they made the right decision with Joe G. Like I said, I love Mo, but does he just want to hold grudges or does he want to win championships while making $4mil more than the next guy in the league?
Yanksrule,
I think you should go for it. There’s so much history in that stadium. Lots of goosebumps if you go and to share it with your son? Awwww.
“Hence the 5th starter by committee… or a 6 man rotation.”
right, which is what i was saying to begin with.
i’m confused.
Absolutely Murphydog.
If people are known to lie in court and they get away with it, it will cause the whole system to crumble.
Hmmmm-
“it would be fantastic to fing a young, cheap pitcher who can go 7 innings on a regular basis.”
Did I say young? No. I did not. I’m saying I’d rather have my fifth starter giving up his 5 runs over the course of seven innings than over five, e.g. Mike Mussina 2007
It is indeed good news that Girardi is so involved in other aspects of players below his direct supervisory level. Nice!
I blogged earlier in the year that I found it very odd that the manager (Torre) not only didn’t know who Joba was (as well as other players) but had never seen him pitch before he arrived on the scene. I mean at least look at some video on these guys that might be able to help.
I also wrote then that I felt Torre was gone. Because when they give you a player with instructions on how he is to be used; they obviously don’t trust your managerial style. Not to mention the constant carping about the Joba rules when everyone had been told to be mum on that whole situation. That smacked of insubordination. IMHO those two situations were the beginning of the end that tipped me off that Torre wouldn’t be back.
I think it points up that being a major league manager is now a younger man’s game. A younger person has the energy to do the things that Girardi is doing and will most likely be better able to connect with the younger players which is where the game is headed.
Oh sure, Leyland is still getting it done in Detroit and Torre may thrive for awhile in laidback L.A. but Wedge, Francona, Girardi are the prototype for the future.
Plus Molina helps translate for Melky so yes he’s worth every dollar! (until Melky is packaged for Santana:-)
What’s with the Moose fixation? I dont get it. It’s not like he’s got 5 years left on his deal. He’s got one year left… it could be a lot worse.
murphydog,
You’re right on all the legal issues. But you didn’t answer my question. If this was closer to home for you would you want your brother, father, or cousin wouldn’t you think they were being singled out? Or would you insist that justice be done?
I’m not calling you a hypocrite, but there have been many comments about how they’re so happy, finally! put his ass in jail, etc. They would change their tune if it was someone close to them or even a Yankee.
I’m sorry to keep it going, but it’s just irritates me how people can have so much hate towards a person. It’s somewhat irrational. (Disclaimer: I’m not a Barry fan).
“The fact he makes a lot of money, makes him a target for state governments to scare the crap out of snowbirds who try and do the same thing Jeter is accused of doing. What a joke.”
bingo. hopefully jeter can get this settled quickly because even though he would seem immune to worrying about this sort of thing, separating a player from his money will definitely get a player’s attention. i would hate to see this become a distraction for jeter.
“It could be a lot worse.”
Let’s hope this is not this winter’s front office m.o.
Murphydog:
It is not a lawyer’s job to investigate his own client thoroughly. A lawyer is entitled to believe what his client tells him. Only if the lawyer KNOWS- not thinks, not believes, but KNOWS- that his client WILL commit perjury before the fact, does he have to do anything about it. Outside of the grand jury circumstances, the lawyer may have responsibilities after the perjury has been committed, but what he must do is less clear. Some jurisdictions say that he simply cannot refer to that testimony or use it in his arguments. During grand jury testimony, a person’s lawyer does not do anything, he is not allowed to ask questions, he sits there and watches as his client is questioned by the prosecutor- that’s it. There is nothing the lawyer could have done during the grand jury testimony and he would not ethically be allowed to do anything about it after the fact. And I am a lawyer, that’s why I know all of this. So unless Bonds told him the truth and the lawyer counseled him to perjure himself, he did nothing wrong. I’m sure he explained to Bonds the risks involved and the fact that, because one receives immunity for any testimony before a grand jury (meaning nothing you say in there can be used against you unless you commit perjury and obstruction of justice by lying), there was no reason to lie. Clients will lie anyway, always have, always will. Bonds is a victim of his own lack of integrity and arrogance, not bad counseling.
hmmmm
point is – you can keep “the two” in AAA for the first two months and use the starter committee for the 5th spot on occassion or your 6 man rotation – I didn’t say one or the other. Whichever works best for the team… Wonder if Moose will gripe about his days off… ??
whoops – sorry hmmm – one too many m’s.
Jesse – You made good points, I also found it strange that he had not a clue about these kids coming up. Shouldn’t he know the young studs in the farm? It is not like Joba was a scrub playing the in minors. He shot up thru the farm system and should have been the talk.
“point is – you can keep “the two†in AAA for the first two months and use the starter committee for the 5th spot on occassion or your 6 man rotation – I didn’t say one or the other.”
right, that works too.
but you would need Moose in that scenario, correct?
that was my only point, that the Yankees can’t really afford to trade Moose quite yet.
I’ll bet any much money that Girardi knows who Jackson, Tabata, Gardner, and all the stud pitchers are!
murphydog,
Oops. Just reread my post. I’m not irritated with you, just with the whole issue in general. Irritated enough to get on my soapbox.
However this shakes out, the Yankees NEED Mike Mussina in 2008!
He can give us another 5.6 innings per start, a 5.15 ERA, plenty of smiles, and that special team-first ethic!
“Did I say young? No. I did not. I’m saying I’d rather have my fifth starter giving up his 5 runs over the course of seven innings than over five, e.g. Mike Mussina 2007”
ok, but you realize that pitchers don’t necessarily get pulled b/c they are tired, but b/c they are giving up runs, right?
there aren’t really any pitchers that give 5 runs and go 7 innings consistently.
how many 210+ IP pitchers with 6.42 ERAs are there?
pitchers who can go 7 innings all the time are generally the better pitchers in the league.
that was my point. this cheap starter you envision who can give 7 innings every time out doesn’t exist.
hmmm
mine too – in my opinion – I said a starting four of Wang, Pettitte, Kennedy and Moose.
This was the whole plan with Moose to begin with. He was a veteran bridge to the young pitching that was going to transition in as he was finishing his career. He’s signed to a reasonable contract that will end after this season.
its like talking to a brick wall.
it doesnt matter if you can upgrade him or not, or who else can do what he does for a cheaper deal.
he’s not going anywhere, so just get used to the fact he’ll have some role on this team, and have faith that girardi will put him in situations where he will best be able to succeed.
i just think it’s funny that people think Jeff Karstens will outpitch Mussina next year.
“that was my point. this cheap starter you envision who can give 7 innings every time out doesn’t exist.”
hmmm
well, I can think of one, but we already got him. (wang)
Actually, it’s a little more complicated than that. A lawyer is duty bound not to present a defense that he or she knows to be false. So if a client tells a lawyer that he is guilty of the offenses charged, a lawyer can’t offer a defense that claims that the client did not commit the crime.
Most clients tell their attorneys that they are not guilty. The only way for the attorney to ascertain the true facts is through an independent investigation.
“I wonder if they would be taking on Lowell (if they get him) to use as a trade chip.”
You can’t do that. You can’t trade a free agent you signed until May or something. Exercising an option is different. That player was under contract with you the whole time.
There’s a similar situation with drafted players. You can’t trade them for their first year or so. You can do a PTBNL thing to get around that sometimes, though.
“What were the feds supposed to do then, after offering and clearly explaining a deal where they give up their case against a person in exchange for the truth?”
don’t the feds also promise that all grand jury testimony will remain confidential and is not released to the public?
so if judges don’t like grand jury lying, don’t they also dislike grand jury leaking of proceedings?
i’m not disagreeing that people should tell the truth, but i think the truthful grand jury testimony shouldn’t be leaked in a game of gotcha.
I bet so too…& alot of people are not going to like what I’m about to say, Joe Torre never had a hands on approach, some execs. actually had valid points in questioning his work ethic w/ the farmsystem.
Why is it so far fetched that Karstens will outpitch Moose?
Like Moose had such a great 2007???
Like Moose hasn’t lost his stuff??
“hmmm
well, I can think of one, but we already got him. (wang)”
no, i meant there are no pitchers with 6.42 ERAs who average 7 innings a start.
Wang pitches into the 7th inning b/c he is a good pitcher.
the Count was saying we should replace Moose with someone who can go 7 IP, 5 ERs every time. i don’t know who that player is.
Bonds was also granted immunity therefore he could have even said oh btw I killed that girl and nothing would have happened, it was, it is, and it always has been his choice to lie to a grand jury
Torre was already established as manager when Cash became GM in 98. But with Girardi, Cash has an opportunity to mold this guy into something more than just a manager of player, but someone who also knows more about the entire system and knows who’s coming and going and what to expect from everyone. It definitely gives Girardi more tools to more effectively understand the mechanizations of the team.
I agree randy l. The Grand Jury testimony is not supposed to be leaked. It always seems to be leaked anyway.