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Karstens wins again for Team USA

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 16, 2007 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Got this e-mail today and figured I would share it:

Team USA beat Korea 3-1 today in the quaterfinals of the World Cup in Taiwan and the hero was Jeff Karstens.

He allowed one run on five hits in seven innings. He struck out seven without a walk and threw 66 of his 82 pitches for strikes. He was 2-0 in the tournament.

Team USA plays the Netherlands in the semifinals. Cuba and Japan play in the other semifinal.

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411 Responses to “Karstens wins again for Team USA”

  1. Raf November 16th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Nice…can you say ‘tradebait’? I hope all 29 other teams were watching.

  2. Raf November 16th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Nice…can you say ‘tradebait’? I hope all 29 other teams were watching.

  3. mel November 16th, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Nice, keep building up that trade value, Jeff!

  4. kd November 16th, 2007 at 11:55 am

    Pete, strong work even on vacation. This blog rules

  5. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 11:58 am

    Impressive. Not quite Dice-K like, but impressive.

  6. We Miss Paulie November 16th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    So, why can’t he do that in Yankee Stadium?

  7. We Miss Paulie November 16th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    Dice-K would have walked five and been pulled in the 4th inning.

  8. Mike B. November 16th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    So what are the possibilities of using him in the rotation for 2008? While Kennedy may have looked good down the stretch, Karstens has more experience in the Majors.

  9. Will The Thrill November 16th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    This competition Karstens is pitching against must be so awesome…SARCASM OFF.

  10. pat November 16th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    “So, why can’t he do that in Yankee Stadium?”

    Maybe because he’s not facing major league hitters

  11. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    “So what are the possibilities of using him in the rotation for 2008? While Kennedy may have looked good down the stretch, Karstens has more experience in the Majors.”

    So? Kennedy’s a better pitcher. If he has a good ST, he should make it. Kennedy could actually pitch 180-190 innings this season, where Joba and Hughes should only go about 150-160.

    If they all have good STs, we have a wonderful problem. If some don’t, then the choices are made for us.

  12. mel November 16th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Nothing against the Netherlands, but avoiding Cuba & Japan in the semis is nice.

  13. Hilbert November 16th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    No. These are Dice-K numbers! Impressive.

  14. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    “Dice-K would have walked five and been pulled in the 4th inning.”

    I though he only did that when the game was important (he,he).

  15. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    Pete, thanks for posting even while on vacation.

  16. DaaaYankeesWin November 16th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    WHO?

  17. mel November 16th, 2007 at 12:12 pm

    How many pitchers do they usually bring in to earn spots? Who will be there this year?

    Joba, Hughes, Ian, Pavano, Igawa, Karstens, Rasner, at the very least.

    And there’s bullpen guys, too?

    Ohlendorf, Veras, Sanchez

    Plus all the vets who need to get work in. How many does that add up to?

  18. OurKidsPlayDifferentSports November 16th, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    The netherlands has some much better hitters than korea. I ezpect karstens to get hit.

  19. 89 November 16th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Karstens looks like a AAAA guy if he can’t spot the fastball and changeup… He shows flashes of being able to do it — but 2.5 times through the order, he always gets shelled or loses control, and then gets shelled.

  20. yanks61 November 16th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Apologies, but I would just like to throw my two cents in and go back to the end of the last thread for a moment;

    Joe Torre was the right manager at the right time, to use probably a very inappropriate analogy, just as Winston Churchill was the right PM for his time. Neither were perfect personalities with solutions for every period of time, only that their leadership styles the perfit fit for their time. Their time, in each case, came and went.Joe may not have known very many players in the farm system, but he did pretty well without that knowledge, just as Casey Stengel usually couldn’t recall the names of players who had been with him for years! Casey, by the way, also did dramatically unusual things, like pinch hitting Enos Slaughter against a good left handed relief pitcher like Don Mossi, and got the game winning single in the bottom of the ninth doing it (I was there.)

    Now, I’m thrilled to death that Joe Girardi and his completely involved style is going to hopefully be with the Yanks for years to come. Times changes, situations change and Giradi, I believe and hope, is the right man for this particular time. He’s a dynamic, hands on leader, a motivator and a winner. It doesn’t hurt at all that he’ll also be completely clued up on the personnel he’s handed in the middle of the season.

  21. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    Pavano is going to be release, he won’t be ready until August. Don’t think you’ll see him in st.

  22. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    **edit button please!!

    released!!!

  23. DVB, in Spirit & Mind November 16th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    “While Alex Rodriguez and the Yankees inch closer to a landmark contract agreement, the deal for another star has hit a snag. Mariano Rivera hasn’t accepted New York’s three-year, $45 million offer, looking for another year or more money on the current offer.”…….
    .
    More Money ? Mo has lost his mind. He can look for MORE MONEY in LA, in Chicago, underneath his mattress ?…I say the Yankees offer him the exact same contract as Posada and if that is not good enough for him,,,then BaBye…and even THAT is a silly offer. I never thought MO to be such a greedy bastage…but MORE MONEY than 45million dollars to close ?…..he needs to stop smoking bananas and join us here on planet earth ! :-(

  24. mel November 16th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    jennifer,

    Sorry about that. Pavano was supposed to be on the list of guys trying out for the Gatorade Boy position.

  25. Aliens in the Park November 16th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    Karstens is interesting. He looked great in spring training after bulking up and adding a a few mph to his fastball. But after his injury he looked horrible when he came back. Could be some potential there as a spot starter/long man.

  26. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    “How many pitchers do they usually bring in to earn spots? Who will be there this year?”

    All the ones they think are worth it. Some will get shipped over to minor league camp before the position players arrive, though. I suspect there will be a lot of them again this season, just because they have a lot of young guys that could see a little time in MLB this season.

    “Joba, Hughes, Ian, Pavano, Igawa, Karstens, Rasner, at the very least.”

    Joel Sherman reported a while ago that the Yanks were going to DFA Pavano before the Rule 5 draft in order to clear a 40-man roster spot so that they can protect an extra player.

    Modulo any trades that are made:

    SP:
    Joba, Hughes, Ian, Igawa, Karstens, Rasner, possibly White, Horne, Clippard

    RP:
    Britton, Ramirez, Veras, Ohlendorf, Sanchez, Bruney, Henn, maybe Kozlowski

    And, the vets, of course.

    Given that guys pitch an inning or two at a time at first and there are “B” games, everyone should get a decent look. And, if someone goes to minor league camp after a slow start and starts ripping it up, he could get back to MLB camp if someone else starts stinking.

  27. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    “But after his injury he looked horrible when he came back.”

    Well, after missing a bunch of spring training, it’s not surprising that it’d take him a little bit to get back on the horse. Unfortunately, that comebacker robbed him of his season.

  28. Scooter November 16th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    Guys

    I realize Karstens isn’t Cy Young… maybe he’s not even Matt Young…

    But if you go back to 2006, he really was a pretty serviceable guy.

    He did break his leg this year – I doubt he was 100% when he returned.

    Flip side – the level of competition wasn’t outstanding. He’s still NOT going to get you Cabrera or Santana in a trade.

    He could still be a useful guy – as a swingman or a spot/emergency starter.

    And he seems like a pretty good guy – so I’m happy for his success

  29. mel November 16th, 2007 at 12:28 pm

    whozat,

    Thanks. Seems like a lot of guys, but it must be the same for every team.

    There should be a lot of buzz at Yankee ST this year. Fans, media, and scouts will want to get a good look at the Big Three.

  30. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    he can be our version of mendoza in the late 90′s … but thats about it.

  31. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    It’s good that Karstens is able to pitch and get all of this extra work. Karstens and Darrell Rasner could possibly do some good for the Yankees as spot starters and long relievers. I haven’t heard anything about Rasner’s finger, but he has probably had plenty of time to recover from that by now.

  32. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Turns out Bobby Abreu isn’t such a bad RF after all. And to think so many people here think he’s just a horrible fielder.

    http://www.baseballmusings.com/

    You have to scroll down a bit to see the RF probability/range stats.

  33. Chosen1s08 November 16th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    You all havent forgot that the base of our SP is Wang no one has even said is name in the list of the possible rotation guys

  34. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    You all havent forgot that the base of our SP is Wang no one has even said is name in the list of the possible rotation guys

    I think it’s assumed that Wang doesn’t have to earn his spot. I believe the list were all pitchers who are expected to compete for spots.

  35. yankee land - November 16th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    Newsday is reporting the Mo Rivera holding out for a 4th yr. Also I heard from someone else sides are at impasse.

    can the best week of the offseason , turn into the worst????

    ANYONE HEAR ANYTHING????????

  36. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    And even after that performance Karstens apparently is useless to some people here.

    Fantastic!

  37. whoa November 16th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Trade him.

  38. jonnycat November 16th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    off topic-

    do people have to continue to hit the refresh button like I do to update the comments, or is there some button/html voodoo that does it automatically?

    and btw does anyone know much about mo’s agent? c’mon already. Is this standard procedure/posturing normal for this clients?

  39. DVB, in Spirit & Mind November 16th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    yankee land – you are right in that he wants either more money on the 3 year deal…OR he wants a 4th year added….Sorry MO…but tell your story walking…find another team willing to do that for ya…NOT GONNA HAPPEN….MO is just being a stubborn jerk about this and hopefully he can pull an A-Rod and realize his mistake soon. IMO.

  40. Mike from CT (aka Avery Blasts Brodeur) November 16th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    from mlbtraderumors.com

    Yankees Sign Jose Molina
    A note from Mark Feinsand: the Yankees have signed Jose Molina to a two-year, $4MM deal. He’ll obviously serve as Jorge Posada’s backup.

  41. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    What’s Mo’s agent doing?? He’s playing a very dangerous game.

  42. mel November 16th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    Did you guys feel that quake just now? That was The Big Diesel reading today’s newspapers. Wade calls out Shaq!

  43. GreenTeaSucks November 16th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    It’s amazing what Karstens can do against non-mlb hitters. I saw him pitch a game in AAA after he was sent down and he was absolutely lights out. Didn’t even look like the same guy. Plain and simple he’s a #5 NL starter, career journeyman. He shouldn’t be anywhere in the Yankees plans.

    LOL@DVB “he needs to stop smoking bananas and join us here on planet earth!” too funny.

    The $45 million offer drew criticism from Major League Baseball executives in charge of monitoring salaries and payrolls, as sources said that Yankee executives Hal Steinbrenner and Randy Levine were admonished during yesterday’s owners’ meetings in Florida for drastically upping the market for relievers. That criticism figures to be further incentive for the Yankees to stand firmly behind the three-year offer, and it could dissuade other teams from topping it – something that was unlikely to take place anyway.

  44. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    What transpired with Bonds and Boras tells me both share a case of delusion of grandeur and invincibility.

  45. Jake November 16th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Jeff Karstens is a AAAA pitcher.

    He is not trade bait and will never function as any kind centerpiece, so don’t be tempted to start running Johan Santana’s name in the same sentence as Karstens.

  46. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Trade! Trade! Trade! Sell high!

    That’s my trade Karstens for anything with a pulse response for the day.

    But seriously, you can’t tell me the Washington Nationals wouldn’t put Karstens into their rotation right now.

    Let’s trade Karstens and Rasner for the broken down body of one Nick Johnson.

    Then we’ll bring in mad scientists to make Nick Johnson fully bionic and we’ll have a 1b who looks like Ruth and plays like Gehrig.

    Hell, while I’m at it, let’s offer 5 of our quadruple A starters to Washington for Cordero. We’ll give them a starting rotation and we get a set up man.

  47. BBFan November 16th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    Lot of people may not agree with this, but as classy as he had been, Mo has been always greedy during the contract negotiations. As a Yankee official said earlier (when he was threatening to go to FA), he never gave any home team discount (not that I think he should), and always tried to squeeze the last penny from Yanks.

    He is upset that Hank mentioned he is 38 years old!!! The fact is he is 38 years old, he had health issues in the past with his elbow,…. how does he exptect to guarantee 4 years. If he is still healthy and effective after three years, I am sure Yanks will give him another contract for a year or so at that time.

    This whole non-sense about he was upset about not getting contract extension during ST, he should thank Cashman for that as he is able to get 45 mil contract for three years. In the ST, he would have probably been offered about two years for 24 mil.

    The bottom line is all these players want to maximize thier contracts and that is prefectly alright. But, what Mo is trying to do is beyond greedy. He should know that he will not get another offer better than what Yankess have on the table. Let us see what his Joe in LA going to offer to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    Mo or Hank… which one will blink?

    If you think about the way Bernie Williams’ and Joe Torre’s contract situations were treated, not to mention how the door was slammed in A-Rod’s face until he apologized, you saw the Yankees come to a decision and stick to it. On the face of things you have to think Mo is coming to the end of the line soon.

    4 years? I don’t know where he’s getting 4 years unless someone else is dopey enough to offer it… like the Mets did for Po.

  49. yanks61 November 16th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Terrific link, Raymagnetic! The Yankee Brass actually know something (apart from the fact that they, like everyone on this blog, knew Abreu had an allergic reaction to walls); I guess there will be a lot of bloggers who will scratch their heads in amazement that the Yankees have people who look dispassionately at a players performance and properly evaluate that. Some of the posts would lead you to believe that Yankee management is living in cloud cuckoo land.

    Seriously, as long as “Stick,” his protege, Cash and now Giradi, are on top of things, I feel very confident in the Yankee’s future!

  50. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    Like I said yesterday, I need professional help. I’m beginning to think like Hank Steinbrenner. :oops:

  51. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    Ok I really don’t care about Bonds and Arod anymore, b/c I’m FREAKING OUT about Mo!!

    Mo PLEASE, I beg of you. 3/45 is a crazy good deal for you, for anyone in fact who’s a reliever! And please don’t sulk about what happened during ST, thanks to that you now have one more year and 20 more millions. And who cares Hank said you’re 38, truth is, you ARE 38, and age IS a very legitimate factor in pro performance. Please don’t do this, nothing good could come of it!

  52. BBFan November 16th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    I think Hank is a breath of fresh air.
    He is open, speaks his mind without the bluster of his father.
    Sure, Pete and many here tried to kill him even before getting to know him.
    I think he is good for the yanks.
    I remember every one saying Cash is a figure head because of Hank’s personality. So much for that assertion given how things played out so far…..

  53. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    BBFan- I agree with you. I like the change of personality with Hank taking over and Girardi becoming the manager. I’m not knocking Torre, I am just saying that there was a laid-back atmosphere for a while and now things are changing. Hank is definitely more hands-on and unafraid to ruffle feathers to get a point across. We all know about the extra fire and outward emotion that Girardi will bring. But I enjoy the fact that Hank is outspoken. I’m not saying that he has to be as loud and boisterous as Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, but it is good that he shoots from the hip. It was time for things to change.

  54. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    BBFan,

    Yes, Hank seems to be a good guy. But everytime he opens his mouth to take out the silver spoon, his foot goes right in.

  55. Pepper Brooks November 16th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    mel
    November 16th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
    BBFan,

    Yes, Hank seems to be a good guy. But everytime he opens his mouth to take out the silver spoon, his foot goes right in.

    But at least it is a silver shoe.

  56. Tommy November 16th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    Man, I am torn about Mo.
    I think the offr is more than fair and he accepts it.

    I think Hank has done well cosidering the amount of statements.
    Aside from the pissing contest with Torre, he’s been fine.
    He is far more restrained than his Dad was at a similar juncture.

    I was in early on the 2 Bonds threads, but missed the heart of it.
    For anyone interested in hearing a Lefty take on it, check out Dave Zirin at edgeofsports.com
    LOL

  57. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Mel- Not only the silver spoon, but Hank also has to take out the cigar when he opens his mouth to speak. :)

  58. BBFan November 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    “Yes, Hank seems to be a good guy. But everytime he opens his mouth to take out the silver spoon, his foot goes right in.”

    It is in the eye of the beholder!!!!
    I and many here do not see that!!!!!!
    But, you are entitled to your opinion.
    In this whole Mo saga, it is Mo who has his foot in the mouth!!!!

  59. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Pepper,

    HaHa. A Silver Horseshoe.

  60. Reggie44 November 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Mo is pulling a Paulie Cicero from Goodfellas…

    “Now the Yanks got Mo as a closer…

    One run lead in the 9th, they go to Mo. Trouble with Farnsworth in the 8th? They can go to Mo. Two out saves, back-to-back nights in the playoffs, they can go to Mo…

    But now the Yank’s gotta come up with Mo’s money every year no matter what. I’m 38? Funk you, pay me. Oh, no other team will pay as much? Funk you, pay me. 4 year deals for an aging closer are crazy? Funk you, pay me.

  61. ray November 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    Hey Mel,
    You ready for my Celtics to take your Lakers to school? Just kidding…hope you are having a good day.

  62. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    It is in the eye of the beholder!!!!
    I and many here do not see that!!!!!!
    But, you are entitled to your opinion.
    In this whole Mo saga, it is Mo who has his foot in the mouth!!!!

    Uhh….Read my 1:09 pm post. Just because I think the guy’s uncouth doesn’t mean I don’t like him or his moves.

  63. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    “But seriously, you can’t tell me the Washington Nationals wouldn’t put Karstens into their rotation right now.”

    Given that Tim Redding got 15 starts for them last year, I figure you’re right:-)

    And, given their favorable draft position for the last bunch of years, they must have some position players in A+ and AA that would be interesting. I’d flip Rasner or Karstens for a good AA catching prospect.

  64. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    ray,

    HaHa. So jealous of the Celtics. Better watch those minutes, though. Just like Kobe, Garnett’s got alot of mileage.

  65. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    ray,

    BTW, I am a Patriots fan. So I’m not a total loser in your book, am I?

  66. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    seeing how the nationals put rasner on waivers i doubt they would trade for him … no way karstens is going to bring back a good prospect let alone a catching prospect, which is one of the most rare prospects in baseball. plus the yanks have 2 or 3 catching prospects but they are all in low A ball.

  67. We Miss Paulie November 16th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Yanks just signed Molina….sweet.

  68. ray November 16th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    mel,
    You are cool and in no way a loser in my book no matter what teams you cheer for!

  69. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    “no way karstens is going to bring back a good prospect”

    So, a pitcher that could step into their rotation _now_ and eat innings for several years on the cheap isn’t going to be worth a good prospect? I doubt that. I didn’t say a blue-chipper, I said a good prospect.

  70. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Anyone know what the big announcement is on Mike and the Mad Puppy? Did YES get rid of their contract? Are they switching to SNY where they should be?

  71. Don Capone (Designated Blogger) November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Keep Karstens, dump Mussina.

  72. sunny615 November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    John Donnovan’s Winners and Losers of the Arod deal

  73. Vince November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    A healthy Karstens will compete this spring training as a 5th starter/long relief man. Given a choice, his stuff is more trustworthy than Mussina’s at this point.
    Rasner is in a similar mode as Karstens.

  74. sunny615 November 16th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Question – if we don’t want Karstens… why would anyone else? He’s barely a 6th starter on anyone’s team.

  75. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Ray,

    Haha. Looks to be a good year for Boston in all the sports. Well, the ones that count!

  76. B November 16th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    “Given a choice, his stuff is more trustworthy than Mussina’s at this point.”

    No, it’s not. He has no stuff. He’s Moose minus the experience.

  77. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    The Washington Nationals would probably love to have Darrell Rasner back in their system….The Yankees picked him up on waivers from them on 2-10-06…lets try and get some young position players for some of theese “extra” pitchers:::Wright,Clippard,Karstens,Rasner,Bruney,Ramirez,Beam,DeSalvo…That way we can protect some of the minor leaguers that need protecting before the Rule 5 draft in early December.

    Yankees have 22 pitchers currently on their 40Man Roster..that doesnt include Rivera,Pettitte,Viz.
    Two spots that are being taken up are Brackett and Miranda.

  78. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    karsten is pitching agaisnt korea ? and you think he can fit into a MLB rotation? come on. maybe, just maybe in the NL he can fit into the back end of a rotation but he is a classic example of a 4A player, dominates minor leaguers and gets dominated by major leaguers, he might be able to bring back a veteran reliever or someone else who a team is trying to dump, (just like how the yanks got molina last year) but IMO there are tons of karsten type pitchers in the minors, hell we have a few of them, (rasner, wright, desalvo) why would anyone give up anyone worth while for him?

  79. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    i think that the nationals will be a very good team soon enough and will be perenial contender once they built their new stadium and start cashing in on that market.

  80. NYY November 16th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    Karsten’s shutdown Korea so let’s trade him for Santana right up.

  81. mel November 16th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    It really depends on who Korea has, they did well in the World Baseball Classic 2 years ago.

    But his performance in Taiwan is besides the point.

    We’ve seen him for 2 years now. That’s what many naysayers are basing their opinions on.

    Just thank the Good Lord that Karstens and Rasner are not our 2 best pitching prospects.

  82. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Jennifer
    The announcement is to be made at 300PM.

  83. ML November 16th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Mo deserves whatever he wants. He’s the one reliever whose arm Torre couldn’t destroy, try as he might.

    Can anyone tell me how this world cup differs from the world baseball classic? Clearly, the stars are not playing. Is it only for young players or something?

  84. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    Thanks man!!

    To all those ready to throw Moose out and replace him with Jeff, lets not forget that Igawa was the strike out leader in Japan! I am very happy that Jeff is successful, but lets be real he isn’t a major league starter.

  85. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    If I’m the Phillies or the Mets or the Sox I offer 4 yrs to Mo right now.

  86. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    And young pitchers can’t take a leap and put it all together??

    I’d be wary about giving up on Karstens even if hes a #5 starter.

  87. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    i have nothing against karstens, but with our pitching depth in the minor leagues i just don’t see him having a future with the yankees. this year he could be an emergency spot starter in AAA or maybe the long man in the bullpen but after next year the yankees have too many pitchers (which is a good thing) that are far superior to him.

    but rasner, desalvo and karstens are not going to get much back in a trade.

  88. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    Anyone hear anything more about a possible trade of Farnsworth to the Orioles???And if so who do you think they could get for him???Kevin Millar???Or one of the 10 relief pitchers they signed last winter???

    I can just see Farnsy giving up HRS evry night in that small ballpark…oh wait that right,he doesnt pitch back to back games…my bad!

  89. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
    November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
    Anyone know what the big announcement is on Mike and the Mad Puppy? Did YES get rid of their contract? Are they switching to SNY where they should be?

    Why should they be on SNY? Considering Mike a huge Yankee fan and Dog hates the Mets.

    Yea, it makes total sense!

    Moron.

  90. Ross November 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Dear yanks61

    ‘Joe Torre was the right manager at the right time, to use probably a very inappropriate analogy, just as Winston Churchill was the right PM for his time. Neither were perfect personalities with solutions for every period of time, only that their leadership styles the perfit fit for their time. Their time, in each case, came and went.’

    So….Joe Torre was defeated in the 1945 General Election? That makes Joe Giradi = Clement Attlee?

    Good grief!

  91. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    John all the teams you mentioned have a closer. How do you think Wagner would take to being demoted. It is not realistic. This is a staring contest, one which Mo will lose. He is insane if he thinks the Yankees will give him 4 years.

  92. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:09 pm

    I am not going to get into it with you Eric you are a very vicious and nasty person. All you do is come on here and rip everything everyone says. I wish there was a way to ignore your idiotic posting since they never say anything of substance.

  93. TurnTwo November 16th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    i like Karstens. he works fast, and pounds the strike zone.

    he never seemed right after he came back from that broken leg, but i would guess that he sets up as the best candidate to be the long man our of the pen that the Yankees didnt have last season.

  94. saucy November 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    “If I’m the Phillies or the Mets or the Sox I offer 4 yrs to Mo right now.”

    at $15M/year?

  95. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    Trading away the “extra” pitchers doesnt mean the Yankees would seek a AA prospect or from AAA.Im thinking of two things: 1)clearing a roster spot for Marquez,or Jones,or Horne,McCutchen,McCallister,Claggett.
    2)getting a young low A/short season A firstbaseman,or Outfielder.If he pans out in 3-4 yrs,then great.
    My no means should CashMoney give them away.

  96. SJ44 November 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Eric,

    Do you really think TV deals are made by determining the fan interests of the hosts.

    I wouldn’t be calling anyone a “moron” (which shouldn’t be done in this blog anyway) if that’s how you think deals are made in the TV/Radio business.

  97. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    Eric – you’re kidding right?

    What on earth did Jennifer said that warrants her to be called a “moron”?? She was simply asking a question that most of us are curious about!

  98. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    SAY not said

  99. jonnycat November 16th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    jennifer-

    Best just to ignore it and take the high road- people who are nasty to others on a sports blog are not even worth commenting about…..

  100. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    Karstens may be teamed up with Igawa to form a righty/lefty long relief combination. I’m really not sure what will happen to Igawa. Maybe, just maybe a year of seeing Major League hitters has given him an indication of the adjustments that he needs to make. Working with a new pitching coach could also help him. Or maybe he does get traded to someone like the Padres. His value is currently too low to get anything in return in a trade. He will probably have to start out with the Yankees next year and perform well to get his value up.

  101. SJ44 November 16th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    Folks, relax about Mo. That deal will get done.

    I don’t think he is going to get a 4th year. He will be back with the Yankees.

    If Hank Steinbrenner can out-Boras Scott Boras, I don’t think its going to be a problem dealing with Mo.

  102. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    ML … don’t quote me on this but i believe up until a few years ago it was strictly for amatuer players. just recently they started to allow minor league players to participate but MLB are not allowed in the world cup BUT they are allowed in the world baseball classic. two different entities

  103. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    Phillies just got Brad Lidge and resigned JC Romero,and have Tom Gordon.

    Mets have Wagner
    Redsux have John Lithgow lookalike

    Dodgers aint paying that money…besides how would Mo check on his restaurant from L.A.

    I m not worried about MO just yet..he should come around,he is stil ticked from ST.

  104. Joe Hardy November 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    The Chicago Cubs have a need for an established closer…and they have the cash to afford a 4 year/$55-$58 Million dollar investment in Mo Rivera.

    Its questionable whether or not Mo is “insulted” enough to leave his home and business interests in New York for an extra year and a few Million more.

    Perhaps Cashman can add a player option for a 4th year – if he meets certain performance incentives during the third year of the contract.

  105. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Folks, if Karstens and/or Rasner has a good spring, some NL team that has an injury is going to come knocking looking for someone that can step in right now and hold down a rotation slot. Or, some team that discovers their top prospect needs a few more months before he’s ready to pitch every fifth day in the majors. I’m not saying they’ll come offering the moon, but they’ll come kick the tires and offer something decent. A kid who’s real far away but has a lot of upside, or a kid with some injury questions but a lot of upside, or a kid who’s closer to the majors but with less upside, something like that. Or, perhaps a veteran reliever with one year on his deal or something.

  106. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    SJ ok I’ll try to relax, I hope you’re right about Mo but I fear he’s lost his mind. He better signs in the next 24 hours or I’ll have to breathe with a paper bag.

  107. B November 16th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    “Karstens may be teamed up with Igawa to form a righty/lefty long relief combination.”

    There is absolutely no reason for a righty/lefty long relief combination. I wouldn’t even trust Karstens to be a spot starter.

  108. mel November 16th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Listening to Mike & Mad Dog. They’re repeating what Kimberly Bell said. But I got to ask you guys, would you stand in front of the mirror and tell your mistress that your testes were shrinking?

  109. B November 16th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    I’m 95% sure that I could hit a home run off Jeff Karstens.

  110. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    “The Chicago Cubs have a need for an established closer…and they have the cash to afford a 4 year/$55-$58 Million dollar investment in Mo Rivera.”

    They’re not throwing that money around with their ownership situation unsettled right now.

  111. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    hank is paying full price for everything. what player is signing for under market contracts? the red sox have beckett for 10 million a year and ortiz under market value. who have the yankees signed for under market deals?
    i still think hank is a jackass whose father gave him everything he has . that said i’m happy he’s spending a lot of money to sign arod, posada, and hopefully rivera. i’d like him even less if he was being stingy with the yankees money.
    how anyone is thinking hank is making anyone blink is a joke. posada got an extremely lucrative long term contract. arod was on an 81 million dollar contract and ended up with 280 million. rivera is going to get at least 45 million for three years.
    i think as long as hank gets to huff and puff and look tough he doesn’t care how much he spends as long as it’s spun that he’s tough.
    arod apologized for opting out and got what he wanted in the first place.
    where do i sign up for apologizing to hank?
    i’m actually fine with hank overpaying for key players. i think it’s a good deal for everyone. the yankees have so much coming off the books in the next few years, they are in good shape to overpay for arod,posada and rivera and insure that they have a good team in 2008 and beyond while the younger and cheaper players are blended in.

  112. yanks61 November 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
    November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
    Anyone know what the big announcement is on Mike and the Mad Puppy? Did YES get rid of their contract? Are they switching to SNY where they should be?

    Why should they be on SNY? Considering Mike a huge Yankee fan and Dog hates the Mets.

    Yea, it makes total sense!

    Moron.

    Erik,

    Why the nastiness? So you have a good argument. Be happy that you got it right and point out why you’re right to whoever makes the mistake. We’re all Yankee fans here and Jennifer is one of the best and nicest Yankee fans. Can’t we keep the remarks civil?

  113. Hugh Stacks November 16th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    Did Mike and the Mad Dog, say it was a “huge announcenment”? If they really had that big of a scope why would they wait till 3 to say it?

  114. B November 16th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    Hugh Stacks,

    So you listen to their show and their ratings go up?

  115. mel November 16th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    randy l.

    Now, please don’t get offended. I really enjoy what you write, but it takes some work to read your posts. The lower case is good, but have you thought about breaking up your paragraphs? Sorry, old people eyes here. :shock:

  116. nate c. November 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    NYY
    November 16th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
    Karsten’s shutdown Korea so let’s trade him for Santana right up.

    I was up all night working on this trade scenario. NYY – you beat me to it. I think the deal could be done before thanksgiving.

  117. yanks61 November 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    Hi Ross,

    “So….Joe Torre was defeated in the 1945 General Election? That makes Joe Giradi = Clement Attlee?

    Good grief!” – Ross

    I said it was probably a bad analogy, but I was hoping that everyone would get the drift! Anyway, we are suppose to stay away from politics here (even if it’s more history than politics), so I won’t get into some of Winnie’s own failures. Just to add that Giradi came by his office by appointment, not by democratic election (well, unless you call the Yankee brain trust an electorate!)In any case, the Yankee Republic goes in to greater glory and is now, by Hank’s own words, the “Yankee Universe!”

  118. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    yanks61
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
    jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
    November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
    Anyone know what the big announcement is on Mike and the Mad Puppy? Did YES get rid of their contract? Are they switching to SNY where they should be?

    Why should they be on SNY? Considering Mike a huge Yankee fan and Dog hates the Mets.

    Yea, it makes total sense!

    Moron.

    Erik,

    Why the nastiness? So you have a good argument. Be happy that you got it right and point out why you’re right to whoever makes the mistake. We’re all Yankee fans here and Jennifer is one of the best and nicest Yankee fans. Can’t we keep the remarks civil?

    The name is Eric. Get it right before you bash me, sister.

    If someone can’t take a retort to their obvious unintelligent comment they shouldn’t be posting here.

  119. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    B- I just meant that the Yankees will have several pitchers to choose from when picking a spot starter/long reliever. It is a bit important for them to choose the right one with Hughes and Chamberlain (probably) on innings caps. You said that you could hit a home run off of Karstens, what about Igawa? Everybody in the league does! :)

  120. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    My guess is that YES has agreed to keep carrying them…but we will hear in 1/2 hour.

    “Ya gotta give alotta credit to our fans there Mikey,hanging in there for us”

    “Yeah Dog”

  121. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    Thanks everyone!!

    I think Eric continues to show his true colors. That is all I will say on him.

  122. nate c. November 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    Joba up for the cover of NEXT on espn. Vote if you want here:

    http://www.espn.go.com/mag/art.....rlain.html

  123. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:35 pm

    UtilityMan
    You are probably correct, someone said they are now using HD cameras, maybe Yes extended them? I’m not even sure when their contract is up.

  124. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 2:35 pm

    Yeah, I can see the Phillies not wanting Mo because they got Tom Gordon and Brad Lidge and JC Romero.

    LOL.

  125. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pm

    Where has Hank been all theese yrs???

    He has some great quotes lately!!!

    I just read what he said about the Rivera offer.

  126. sunny615 November 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pm

    If someone can’t take a retort to their obvious unintelligent comment they shouldn’t be posting here.

    Good advise. Try following it.

  127. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    I think we can all agree that Mo’s offers on the open market will not approach what the Yankees offered him. But the question is would he accept less to stick it to the Yankees?

  128. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    Hey jenny, lets hug it out before your lame fan club starts trying to hang people from yard arms.

    I think your comments are moronic but I’ll never say don’t post them.

    Toodles, sweetie.

  129. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    “They’re not throwing that money around with their ownership situation unsettled right now.”

    this is not so true. Obviously they wont tie themselves to a HUGE contrac. But the cubs will sign people, just because the ownership is up in the air, that doesnt mean they are not gonna sign people.

    The cubs didnt sign Arod because they have a very good 3rd baseman.

    I dont know if the cubs will sign/want to sign mariano, but they are gonna spend money if something comes up…

  130. saucy November 16th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    “someone said they are now using HD cameras”

    like their not ugly enough without HD?!???! Please no!

  131. Meat Hook November 16th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    Crappy relievers are getting 10 mill.

    You don’t think some team that thinks there a bullpen arm away from winning something won’t just throw 4 years at Mo???

    Hellllooo Omar Minaya.

  132. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    Some people just dont get it.Ya try and spell it out for them, and they just dont get it.

  133. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    In todays market 4 years is short. Even for a pitcher.

    JC Romero just got 3 years and hes been cut twice in a year!!!

    Don’t assume what teams will do especially regarding the best reliever ever.

  134. saucy November 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    agreed Migames, re: Mo/Arod/signings…

  135. Mark Z November 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    People are off their rockers if they think teams weren’t calling Mo six seconds after they found out he was pissed at the Yanks.

  136. Brandon (WELCOME BACK ALEX !!!) November 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    is Stephen A. Smith the off his rocker or what, I understand that Bonds is being targeted but he misses the point BONDS DID IT !!!

    IT WAS HIM WHO CHOSE STEROIDS

    IT WAS HIM WHO LIED TO THE JURY TO STAY IN BASEBALL

    IT WAS HIS DECISION TO GET INTO THIS GOD DAMN MESS

    we have many drug dealers in the world some get caught, some don’t , BONDS GOT CAUGHT !! HE DID IT !! IF HE DIDN’T DO IT, HE WOULDN’T BE IN THIS MESS !!!!!!!

  137. mel November 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    If the stories about MLB scolding the Steinbrenners is true, then the only one who thinks that the offer on the table is unreasonable is Mo. It’s not like the Yankees care what MLB says, but that per annual on that offer is very generous.

  138. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    Gordon-Lidge-Rivera

    Philly would be the team to beat in the NL by far even with average SP.

    Heilman-Wagner-Rivera

    Same for the Mets.

    Broxton-Saito-Rivera

    Same for Dodgers.

  139. TurnTwo November 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    JC Romero just got an awful 3 year deal, but the total $$ in that commitment is still less than what MO is asking for a single season.

    i dont care if the cubs need a closer, they arent signing MO at $15 million per.

  140. Hugh Stacks November 16th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    They HAD HD cameras for about a week or 2, but they do not use them anymore, why? Im not sure. If this was as big as they say it is they would have announced it when the show started so they are guaranteed to get credit for the scoop. Why would they risk waiting 2 hours only to have some other news source come up with the same story before them?

  141. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    I just want Mo to sign…

  142. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    WHo cares if Bonds did it?

    Why is the government going after users?

    They wasted years and millions targeting a drug user. Do you not see the folly in that?

  143. yanks61 November 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    Apparently Erik/Eric/Erica, there have been other posts who besides mine that have told you more or less the same thing. There’s no reason for the nastiness. So you’ve got a an IQ of 85, you don’t have to announce it to the whole world sweetheart.

    Now I’m off for the night (it’s getting late here in Europe) and I will happily relinquish the job of squashing your ego to others. You, sister, don’t get to decide on this or any other blog what is/isn’t intelligent because you, yourself, don’t have the brains to decide.

  144. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    “Obviously they wont tie themselves to a HUGE contrac. But the cubs will sign people, just because the ownership is up in the air, that doesnt mean they are not gonna sign people.”

    4/60 _is_ a huge contract for a 38 year old reliever.

    “You don’t think some team that thinks there a bullpen arm away from winning something won’t just throw 4 years at Mo???

    Hellllooo Omar Minaya.”

    I think that Minaya is smart enough to know that he’s still a starter or two away. Especially since he’s said as much.

    “In todays market 4 years is short. Even for a pitcher.”

    Not for someone who’s 38.

  145. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

    …with the Yankees.

  146. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    Say a team offers Mo 50 mil for 5 yrs.

    You really think these high revenue teams care about money?

    The Mets gave Scott Shoenweiss 3 years.

    Mota 2 years coming off a 50 game suspension!

    If Rivera can get a team over the top isn’t he worth the years and 12 mill?

    The ultimatum to Mo may really cost them resigning him.

  147. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    yanks61- That is classic! :)

  148. Brandon (WELCOME BACK ALEX !!!) November 16th, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    John Long Island
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
    WHo cares if Bonds did it?

    Why is the government going after users?

    They wasted years and millions targeting a drug user. Do you not see the folly in that?

    if he doesn’t do it this isn’t even a discussion, just cause a man robs a store do you do it too ?, if your caught no matter what shame on you.

  149. mel November 16th, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    Let’s postulate the following:

    1. The Yankees made a very generous offer
    2. Mo wants the Yankees to show some love
    3. Other teams would be in the market for his services
    4. He would get less from any other team
    5. Mo has the you know whats to walk away

    The question remains, if Mo walks away from 3/45 would you be mad at the Yankees? Or irritated at Mo?

  150. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    yanks61
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
    Apparently Erik/Eric/Erica, there have been other posts who besides mine that have told you more or less the same thing. There’s no reason for the nastiness. So you’ve got a an IQ of 85, you don’t have to announce it to the whole world sweetheart.

    You can call me girls names all you want. I won’t cry about you trashing me like some people. And the Iq is 86. Not 85.

    If you can’t take the heat, don’t post your opinions.

  151. whoa November 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Please sign with another team, Mo.

  152. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Armed robbery is a touch different than being a drug user that is only harming themselves.

    You don’t see the gov’t and police target casual drug users do you???

    Even comparing it to armed robbery is nonsense.

  153. TurnTwo November 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    i’m sorry, but heilman-wagner-mo hardly seals anything up for the mets. the mets need to spend $15 million on a SP, not a 38 year old relief pitcher.

  154. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    John from Long Island:

    But all those teams have OTHER needs. And they’re not going to commit 13-15 mil per for four years to a 38 year old pitcher, no matter how good.

    The Dodgers need a big bat and some starting pitching. The Phillies need a decent starter (even with Myers going back to the rotation), and to stabilize 3B.

    Aaaaand the Mets need one or two starters as well.

  155. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    Dude, guys, am I the only one thinking that Mo wants the four years so he could pitch at 42 because he is 42?

    And I like Mo too much to be objective about it, so I’m going to say I just want him to sign.

  156. Meat Hook November 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    You’re all making a terrible assumption if you think Mo can’t get 14 million from another team.

  157. mel November 16th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Wagner can only pitch in the 9th. He falls apart in the 8th and non-save situations.

  158. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    The only way that Mo could possibly go to the Cubs would be if Mark Cuban could buy them. I definitely don’t think that will happen. Although if Cuban did get the team, I’m sure that he would offer Mo a monster three-year deal, even more than what the Yankees offered him.

  159. Bob November 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    Let MO walk, we can use the draft picks.

  160. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    How do you know they won’t committ money to the BEST CLOSER EVER? Who shows no signs of slowing down, mind you.

    You don’t think the Sox wouldnt want to put him in the pen with Papelbon and Okajima?

    They don’t have 50 mill to play with???

    The Mets aren’t flush with cash?

    Keep in mind isn’t it better to spend 14 on Mo than 12 on Carlos Silva/Kyle Lohse??

  161. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    “If you can’t take the heat, don’t post your opinions.”

    The problem with you is that you don’t trash opinions, you trash the opinion holder, and there’s no reason for that. It’s juvenile and makes people give less credence to what _you_ have to say. It makes it seem like you’re not here to have a discussion, you’re here to take anger out on other people anonymously over the internet.

  162. Matty H November 16th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

    Yeah, it would be great for the Mets to spend 15 mill on fifth starters.

    That’s the ticket!

  163. carolinanyy November 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Let Mo go to the Mets… it would save them the trouble of changing the CD on the bullpen intros.

  164. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Don’t post your opinion, whoszat, if you can’t take the replies.

    Pretty simple.

  165. hmmm November 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    “Crappy relievers are getting 10 mill.”

    name one.

  166. Hugh Stacks November 16th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    How crazy would this scoop be for Mike and MadDog, Arod was one of the 11 free agents notified that they were on the mitchell report? Talk about a horrible day to be a baseball and Yankees fan.

  167. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    I’m sure you would all be saying ‘thanks for the draft picks” the moment Kyle Farnsworth blows his 2nd straight save.

  168. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 2:56 pm

    “Keep in mind isn’t it better to spend 14 on Mo than 12 on Carlos Silva/Kyle Lohse??”

    Not if you need a starter it’s not. I mean…not Lohse, but Silva. It’d be overpaying, but if you need a starter, signing a closer – no matter how good – isn’t going to help you.

    And I didn’t say no one would give Mo 14 mil. I said no one would give him 55-60 over four years.

  169. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    “The lower case is good, but have you thought about breaking up your paragraphs?”
    mel:
    if you think it’s hard reading them ,think how i feel writing them. constructive criticism is always welcome.
    how’s that?

  170. Clifton Park NY Jeff November 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    whozat , post away, the idea of a blog is for any one to respond w/ ideas, it is a good thind people don’t post everytime they disagree with some one ore they would ned a bigger server, …. again

  171. Mike November 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    It is dumber than dirt to spend 10 mill on 5th starters.

    You don’t overpay for below average work.

    70 elite innings from Mo is alittle better than 200 subpar innings from a Silva.

  172. NJ November 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    Nice…can you say ‘tradebait’? I hope all 29 other teams were watching.

  173. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    “Don’t post your opinion, whoszat, if you can’t take the replies.”

    Replies are fine. It’s the insults that are totally pointless, except that it makes you feel better because you get to call someone names without fear of reprisal.

  174. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    hmmm
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
    “Crappy relievers are getting 10 mill.”

    name one.

    If you don’t think Cordero is going to get 10 to close in this market you are nutty.

  175. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    Hugh Stacks – They would have led the show with that story, no way would they keep that under their hats for 2 hours! I bet it is a whole lot of build up for thing!

    He (won’t type his name anymore) Just doesn’t get it. You can disagree with what someone posts, but there is no need to attack them. I guess this is how he gets out his frustrations.

  176. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    Back to my original point, I really just want to trade Karstens for the broken down body of Nick Johnson.

    Then we can dress Nick up like the Babe and have him walk around the stadium taking pictures with fans if he’s injured.

    Maybe we can even get rid of the pie plate guy (I know his name, but I refuse to admit it) in the deal.

    Any parent letting their child touch that disgusting spoon he carries around with their bare hands deserves to be brought up on neglect charges.

    I’m thinking of following him around the stadium next season with a giant vat of Purel.

  177. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    “whozat , post away, the idea of a blog is for any one to respond w/ ideas”

    Oh, I’m not about to let one aggressive meat head stop me from posting.

    Yes, it is about ideas. It’s not about name-calling. I figured we were done with that when we all left the playgound, but I guess some of us haven’t. Pity.

    “70 elite innings from Mo is alittle better than 200 subpar innings from a Silva.”

    Not if you don’t have someone else to pitch the 200 innings it’s not.

  178. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    I can take what you or anyone else throws out there whozat. I’ve been called a girl here a few times in the past half hour. I laugh at it. I called jennifer moronic. I never name called her. Her comment was moronic. If she can’t take it or you can’t or her sensitive posse, you shouldn’t be throwing your opinions out in a free country.

    If you’re so sensitive you shouldn’t be posting.

  179. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    “name one.

    If you don’t think Cordero is going to get 10 to close in this market you are nutty.”

    Cordero is a crappy reliever? Since when? He’s no mo, but he’s decent.

  180. Terence D November 16th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    Stop whining about being told your thought was stupid. You sound like 4 year olds.

  181. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    G. Love – Freedy Sezs? :lol: I think he tries to sell the signs, not sure if anyone actually buys them though.

  182. sunny615 November 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    “moron” – is about the poster

    “that comment was moronic” – is about the opinion

    your post:

    Eric
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    Why should they be on SNY? Considering Mike a huge Yankee fan and Dog hates the Mets.

    Yea, it makes total sense!

    Moron.

  183. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Nice changing your name, like we can see right through that.

    Heyamn the big announcement, knew it was a huge build up for nothing. Big deal his contract ran out for espn and now wfan picked it up.

  184. UtilityMan November 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Oh Boy BIG Announcement!!!!

  185. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Cordero is good?

    How many playoff saves does he have?

    How were his home/road splits the past 2 years?

    Really? That’s good now?

    I forgot that Milwaukee is such a big market and that team didn’t blow a big early lead this yr mostly due to their bullpen.

  186. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    what was the scoop?

  187. mel November 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    randy l.,

    lol.
    i meant put a space in between the paragraphs.
    but that’s o.k.
    it’s unique.
    sincerely,
    mel

    p.s. the big news is jon heyman? what a letdown

  188. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    I told you, jenny. Lets hug it out before your Nazi posse starts killing people. You may be a moron but I love you, girl.

  189. Brandon (WELCOME BACK ALEX !!!) November 16th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    errr..? what I miss ?

  190. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    “Not if you don’t have someone else to pitch the 200 innings it’s not.”

    It’s always good policy to over pay someone because they can throw 200 innings. No matter how bad they are.

    Thank God you aren’t the Yankee GM.

  191. Hugh Stacks November 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    Wow Im so happy i waited 40 minutes to hear that Jon Heyman will be on twice a week.

  192. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    Does anyone else want to tear the hair out of their head when they are watching YES and you can hear people hitting his pie plate through the broadcast?

    It’s like a dagger through my spine.

    Sooner or later, he and I are going to come to blows. It’s my destiny.

  193. Agent47 November 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    What a let down.. now we have to hear one of boras’s slaves.

  194. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    “you shouldn’t be throwing your opinions out in a free country.”

    So, like I said, your point is that no one should talk unless they’re willing to be called names.

    Interpreting Francesa’s frequent whining about everything the Yankees do as Met-fandom is just misinformed. Considering the offering of an opinion as an invitation to mockery is _actually_ stupid.

  195. Terence D November 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    The Yanks give Mo a 4th yr as a performance based vesting option.

    Why not?

    I think he’s earned it.

  196. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    I apologize jenny. Whozat is a bigger moron than you are.

    My sweetest sorry’s me lady.

  197. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    Heyman on twice a week?

    You think Michael Kay is happy??

  198. Meat Hook November 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    You think the Yanks would guarantee that 4th yr if Boston comes a calling like they should????

    We tweek them with Lowell. They do it right back.

  199. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    I wonder if we’ll be able to see Boras operating Heyman like a ventriloquist’s dummy on the Mike and the Mad Dog YES broadcasts twice a week.

    Just like the scene with Richard Gere in Chicago, but without all the dancing men and Christine Baranski.

  200. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    The Bonds story is not about the Government going after casual users.

    The Government arrests users all the time in order to trade up to the dealers. Because the users buy from the dealers they have important evidence to give against the dealers. The government wants to take out the guys making money from selling the illegal substances, not the casual user. Proof: Bonds was offered immunity from prosecution in exchange for truthful testimony about his use of steroids and BALCO. But he didn’t uphold his end of the bargain. The Government was going to let Bonds walk on the steroids charges if he just told the truth. But Bonds took the deal and lied.

    So, this is a story about lying under oath, not about the government picking on millionaire steroid users.

  201. Lawrence Montclair November 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    Moronic is anyone that says 5th starters are worth 10 million per year.

    Buyer beware on Silva, Lohse, etc.

    I guess no one learns from Pavano, Clement, etc.

  202. ray November 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    John Long Island
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
    How do you know they won’t committ money to the BEST CLOSER EVER? Who shows no signs of slowing down, mind you.

    You don’t think the Sox wouldnt want to put him in the pen with Papelbon and Okajima?

    John,
    The Sox have demonstrated fairly consistently that they will not give long term contracts to older players. That was the issue with Damon and is the issue right now with Mike Lowell. I am not the type of Sox that just automatically trashes Yankees players. I agree that Mo has been the dominant closer in baseball for a long time. But the fact still remains that he is 38 and even though he is still a very good closer he is not the best. The Yankee offer to Mo I believe is very fair and I don’t think there are other teams out there that will make better offers.

  203. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    i have a solution for the stalemate between hank and mo.
    since he liked it so much when arod apologized to him for opting out, all hank has to do ,in a reversal, is apologize to mo for calling him old.
    now that he has people convinced he’s tough, it would show his sensitive side. mo would sign and hank would not only be tough. he’d be sensitive too.
    what a guy. if hank does that, i’ll be impressed.

  204. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    “Sooner or later, he and I are going to come to blows. It’s my destiny.”

    G.Love: He’s not worth it, I tell ya.

  205. ND Yank November 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    Heyman said that A-Rod will probably have incentives being paid to him when he gets to 714, 755, Bonds’ total and breaking Bonds’ total or something along those lines. How long does it take A-Rod to hit 714 once he has 713? 715 once he has 714? Ans so on? He seemed to ress trying to get 500.

  206. Wolf In Pinstripes November 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    Good God Eric, just shup up already. You’re not impressing anyone with your “tough guy on the internet” posturing.

    “Moron”, “siter”, “if you can’t take the heat”… dude, if you’re not a 14-yr-old, then you’re an adult with the maturity level of one.

    jennifer is a very well respected member of this blog, which is something you have quite an uphill climb of becoming if you continue to take pride in being a brash jackass.

  207. Clifton Park NY Jeff November 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    Eric
    November 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
    I told you, jenny. Lets hug it out before your Nazi posse starts killing people. You may be a moron but I love you, girl.

    Eric
    November 16th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
    I apologize jenny. Whozat is a bigger moron than you are.

    My sweetest sorry’s me lady.

    right on the money no name calling what so ever!!

  208. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

    “How many playoff saves does he have?”

    he’s got 0…in 0 opportunities. What’s your point?

    “How were his home/road splits the past 2 years?”

    What does that have to do with anything? Milwaukee’s not a noted pitcher’s park like Petco. The splits are a product of a couple of bad outings that happened to be on the road. Mo had those too. It happens.

    He was really good in Texas (a hitter’s park) until last year, and has succeeded in the NL since being traded. He’s all of 32. Given inflation in contracts since Wagner signed, I figure he’ll get a similar deal to that.

  209. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    The government does not target users.

    They don’t arrest users to get info about dealers.

    They go after dealers to get info about bigger dealers.

    Users cannot help a case in any way. They can’t lead to bigger fish. They are a nuisance and truth be told no cop looks to arrest users and prosecturs never prosecute a casual user.

    It is a waste of time targeting users. This Bonds thing is a witch hunt. And a waste of our money.

  210. mel November 16th, 2007 at 3:16 pm

    NDYank,

    That chase for #500 was brutal.

  211. ND Yank November 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Contrary to some of the schmoes on ESPN TV, Heyman says that Santana is “out there” and on the block right now. Most guys on ESPN are saying that they’ll hold him until at least the July 31st trading dedline. If the Yanks “wow” the Twins now they might be able to get him this offseason.

  212. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Cordero was soooo good in texas he lost his closer job and they traded him.

    Check out the stats before you post.

    Even comparing him to Mo is utter stupidity.

  213. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    “Moronic is anyone that says 5th starters are worth 10 million per year.

    Buyer beware on Silva, Lohse, etc.

    I guess no one learns from Pavano, Clement, etc.”

    Someone who lumps those four pitchers together has NO idea what he’s talking about.

    Clement and Pavano were huge injury-related busts.

    Lohse has had worse than average ERAs in the NL after washing out in the AL.

    Silva was good in 05, bad in 06, and a bit above average this year, all in the AL in a very, very competitive division. And he pitched over 180 innings the last four years, so he’s durable. You think he’s not a number 3 in the NL?

  214. Meat Hook November 16th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Wowing Minny involves a Cano-Hughes offer.

  215. saucy November 16th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    “They don’t arrest users to get info about dealers.”

    yes they do. and don’t ask me how i know.

  216. Dee November 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Eric –

    Please take a look at mel and randy l’s posts about writing in paragraphs. That’s how grown-ups with manners and respect talk to each other. Why are you so full of hate???

  217. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Silva doesn’t strike anyone out and his WHIP is high.

    A waste of money if you sign him to be a 5th starter.

    You’re better off letting Humber and Pelfrey do that for 1/10 the price.

    But I wouldn’t expect some people to get baseball economics.

  218. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    I don’t do that trade than. I think Hughes will be a stud, look what he did for us in an elimination game! And Cano continues to improve.

  219. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    So question for everyone.

    Now that we have Arod (and his offense) back in the fold, would you trade Cano for Johan?

    I would. Like I’ve said from the get go though, I wouldn’t give them anything else of real value if they want Cano. If he’s in the deal, no Joba, Melky, Hughes or IPK. You get Cano and Chase Wright.

    Just imagine a rotation of Johan, Joba, Wang, Hughes, IPK with Mussina and possibly Pettitte in the fold.

    I’d go with Betemit at 2b for a season if we didn’t have a better option for Johan.

  220. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    “Cordero was soooo good in texas he lost his closer job and they traded him.

    Check out the stats before you post. ”

    I did. Here’s what I said:

    “He was really good in Texas (a hitter’s park) until last year, and has succeeded in the NL since being traded. ”

    If you’d bothered to check the stats, you’d see it’s true. He was really good until 2006, and has succeeded in the NL since he was traded.

  221. Eric November 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    Dee
    November 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
    Eric –

    Please take a look at mel and randy l’s posts about writing in paragraphs. That’s how grown-ups with manners and respect talk to each other. Why are you so full of hate???

    If you can say it in one sentence, why bother?

    But I respect you trying to be Johnny English Teacher here.

  222. TurnTwo November 16th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    if the definition of “out there” was the Yankees went to the Twins and said we’ll give you Cano and Joba right now, of course, for that package, he’d be available.

    however, i dont see the Twins moving him right now. I think they’ll talk contract extention up to the last minute before having to choose to trade away the best pitcher in the league voluntarily.

  223. mel November 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    Keep Cano and Hughes. If you build it, Santana will come.

  224. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    We’ll agree to disagree about how great Cordero is.

    If you advocate paying him 10 mill+ that’s terrific.

    But you’re the same guy saying pay Silva 12 +mill.

    A little off center there. But good luck with that.

  225. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    “Silva doesn’t strike anyone out and his WHIP is high.”

    1.31 isn’t that high. It was 1.14 merely two years ago. But no, he doesn’t strike out a lot of guys.

    Anyone signing him looking for an ace is dumb. Someone signing him looking for a middle of the rotation guy will probably get that.

  226. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    Patterson:

    “They are a nuisance and truth be told no cop looks to arrest users and prosecturs never prosecute a casual user…. It is a waste of time targeting users. This Bonds thing is a witch hunt. And a waste of our money.”

    Bonds was no ordinary, casual user and we’re not talking about kids sharing a joint in the park after dark. But, you’re entitled to your opinion.

    ill a cop arrest someone for a joint? Probably not. It’s an appearance ticket and it gets ajudicated as a dismissal. Small amounts of cocaine? Maybe not, but you’re getting warmer. Crack? Heroin? Ecstacy? It all depends on what’s hot at the moment and who the police are trying to shut down.

    You don’t look to arrest users/buyers but you will if you are trying to work your way up.

  227. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    I just don’t think that the Yankees should trade Cano. He is only going to continue to get better as he matures and begins to reach the prime of his career. It’s not the easiest thing to find an adequate second baseman. Robbie is definitely the best one that the Yankees have had since Chuck Knoblauch- before the throwing problem of course.

  228. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    Silva is a 5th starter. You can wrap it up any which way you like it but paying 10 mill + for a 5th starter is ridiculously stupid baseball economics.

    The value isn’t there.

  229. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    I might consider just trading Cano and other small pieces, but I don’t think Minni would. Horme, Marquez, they are all supposed to be very good and I would be reluctant to trade them.

    Tyler Clippard did pretty well in the minors, and his first game up against the Mets, But is he tradeable? I don’t know if either him or Wright have a high trade value.

  230. gargoyle November 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    For the love of God will people stop saying that Red Sox held the line at 3 years on Damon. They offerred him 4 years, just like the Yankees did.

  231. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    “If you can say it in one sentence, why bother?”

    You can’t make a well-reasoned argument in one sentence. That requires evidence, you see, and a statement of the point you’re trying to make. Your statement above actually serves as evidence to support my point that you understand little about reasonable and intelligent conversation, so thanks for the assist on that.

  232. hmmm November 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    “Check out the stats before you post.

    Even comparing him to Mo is utter stupidity.”

    who compared him to Mo?

    you said “crappy”.

    i’d like to see the stats that say he is crappy.

    not being as good as Mo does not mean you are crappy.

    and if he DOES get $10M, which he hasn’t yet, it will be because the Yankees set the market by offering Mo $15M.

  233. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    So you are admitting Bonds was targeted unfairly?

    Just because a guy is high profile and a jerk doesn’t mean the government should devote 4 years and countless dollars to bring him down.

    The law is supposed to be blind. What law did he break? He used drugs. They wasted all that money and time for that? And they can’t even prove perjury here unless Anderson flips and why would he flip now after doing 2 years?

    It was a vendetta against Bonds. Plain and simple.

  234. Jeff November 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    So are we getting Lowell

  235. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    saucy:

    Tell you what, I’ll ask Pete to grant you blog immunity if you tell the truth.

  236. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    They offered Damon 4/40 and would budge.

  237. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Is this possible? I dont think it is, its like the new york lotto, you never know. Red Soxs sign Mariano, move Pabelbon to their rotation, move clay and lester (plus prospects) to Minn for Johan, have a rotation of: Johan, Beckett, Pabelbon, Dice-k, Shilling….

    Wow….

  238. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    *woudn’t budge from that offer*

  239. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Have fun if you’re devoting 10 mil to Cordero to close.

    That isn’t exactly a good way for teams to spend their budgets.

    How much did the 4 closers in the ALCS and NLCS earn last yr?

  240. Elliot Ness November 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    Babe Ruth broke the law everyday during Prohibition.

    Liquor was illegal. He was user. Al Capone was the Drug Kingpin.

    Not only that, Babe was injecting Hot Dogs!!

    Scratch Babe from the record books.

  241. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    Why not put Rivera in the 8th with Okajima and Paps in the 9th?

    Imagine those last 9 outs?

    Boston may win 115 games

  242. hmmm November 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    “Now that we have Arod (and his offense) back in the fold, would you trade Cano for Johan?”

    i wouldn’t, but i see the argument both ways.

    Cano is already the one of the best 2Bman in baseball. he is a star player.

    Johan is possibly going to be a FA in a year.

    i’d risk waiting a year.

    i think people underestimate Cano.

  243. Meat Hook November 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    If they had to cut out every drug user from the record books it would be a thin piece of paper.

  244. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    First I am skeptical that Mo would go to the Red Soxs. Second I def don’t think he would go to set up.

  245. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    “Silva is a 5th starter. ”

    What a well supported argument! I’m really convinced, now that you’ve said it more than once. The repetition really enforced it for me in the face of my pointing out that he’s actually had a better than average WHIP and ERA in a tough division in the better offensive league for two out of the last three years. His K/9 is poor, yes, but other peripherals have been decent.

    “10 mill + for a 5th starter”

    True. But, Silva’s better than a fifth starter on any team that’s not the Angels, Red Sox or Yankees (assuming Andy comes back, and Joba and Phil are still here), so…what’s your point?

  246. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    migames, that scenario is super super unlikely, but i just pooped my pants thinking of that scenario.

  247. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    Why wouldn’t Mo go to set up?

    I don’t think he has a Gagne type ego.

  248. J-Dawg November 16th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    We can’t ever tell what will happen, but on several occasions Mo has said that he could never go to Boston after everything that has happened between the Red Sox and Yankees. Mo will be back, he’s just wanting to make the Yankees sweat, and appears to be doing a good job of it.

  249. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    “First I am skeptical that Mo would go to the Red Soxs. Second I def don’t think he would go to set up.”

    Read my post how that is fixed
    Move paps to the rotation (where he should be)
    trade for Johan with Clay and Lester

    i should be wonderboy epstien

  250. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Here’s the point whozat.

    You don’t pay 5th starters 10 mill.

    You can get the same type of performance for the minimum. From Kennedy. From Hughes. Pelfrey, Humber, etc.

    You pay aces that kind of money and more.

  251. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Because Mo is the greatest closer of all time.

  252. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    the todd.

    I know, i cant imagine it….

  253. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    The Sox could trade Ellsbury, Bucholz and Lester and get Johan themselves.

  254. saucy November 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    lol murphydog. i’m taking it the law is carried out differently in different places. even if they are remotely close.

  255. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    I know, i cant imagine it….but then again, i couldnt imagine all what happened with Arod. crazier things have happened

  256. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    Cano for Santana is actually fair to both sides.

    Ramirez-Beckett esque

    Only problem is Santana is too close to FA for it to be really worth it.

  257. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Patterson:

    We’re not going to agree.

    Apparently it’s OK with you that Bonds lied under oath to the Grand Jury. Why is that OK? Because it took too long to finish the investigation in your view? Because he’s black, he’s rich, because there’s more important things to investigate, because he has a friend who is willing to be held in contempt and go to jail rather than tell the truth?

    I say Bonds made himself a target by breaking the law and buying and using steroids illegally. I believe that he brought himself down by lying under oath. The fact that Anderson won’t cooperate and tell the truth because he’s a wannabe thug who proudly believes that “snitches wear stitches” doesn’t impress me, nor does it make Bonds any less guilty in fact.

    I’ll repeat it: Bonds was going to walk if he only told the truth. There was no witch hunt.

  258. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    “Keep Cano and Hughes. If you build it, Santana will come.”
    i agree. i like the yankees getting free agents after they declare for free agency because then it’s just money and draft picks with no players being lost in the process.

    when a team trades someone like cano ,all the emotional investment fans spent getting to know him is gone. somehow that must translate into money for a team if they can keep their homegrown.

    if the yankees let it be known through back channels that they will go after santana after he declares free agency in a big way, why wouldn’t he wait? why agree to be traded to another team and make less?

  259. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    http://www.puristbleedspinstri.....again.html

    My highly unoriginal take on the Bonds situation

  260. mel November 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Andy,

    I don’t see the Sox trading their own little Jeter in Ellbury, a #1, and a #2/#3 for Johan. He’s good, but that’s a lot of talent there. We’d be giving up one of the best 2B, a #2, a 4th outfielder on any other team. I think Minny hangs on to him.

  261. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Ok, I’ll play along murphydog.

    How do you know he lied? You cannot prove heresay. Just because you “know” he did it doesn’t make it so.

    But that’s not even the point. The point is the gov’t wasted years and millions going after a casual user.

    Did Bonds make money off drugs? Did he import it? Sell it? Push it? Clip people who effected his business? Was he a racketeer?

    I think the answer is no to all of that.

    It was a waste of time and money and clearly a vendetta against one man.

  262. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    “Here’s the point whozat.

    You don’t pay 5th starters 10 mill.

    You can get the same type of performance for the minimum. From Kennedy. From Hughes. Pelfrey, Humber, etc.”

    My point, which you keep ignoring, is that Carlos Silva will produce results better than a fifth starter on pretty much any NL team.

    “You pay aces that kind of money and more.”

    Aces make a lot more money than that. If Silva was an ace, he’d get a LOT more than 10 mil per.

    10-12 mil per is what veteran third starters get nowadays.

  263. dude November 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    anyone listening to mike nad the maddog they said an important announcement at 3 and i was wondering what they said

  264. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    I’m not saying the Sox should trade those 3 but they have the chips to get into the Santana fight if they want.

    Beckett-Santana-Dice K

    all under 28.

  265. bern bernie bern November 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    Santana on this team would be truly unreal, but is it really worth giving up all this young talent for a guy who is a year away from free agency? With all the buzz around him these days, dont you think he cant wait for a year from from now when everyone will be dying to sit down with him and make offers? id much rather not trade away big pieces to our puzzle this year when i truly believe we have a legit shot at getting him 1 year from now for only the price of cold hard cash

  266. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    “Only problem is Santana is too close to FA for it to be really worth it.”

    If you deal for Santana, you sign him. If he won’t sign, you don’t deal for him. You can make trades contingent upon an extension being signed. The Yankees did this just a few years ago with Randy Johnson. So, that’s not a problem.

  267. Not Dude November 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    Maddog is getting neutered.

  268. mel November 16th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    randy l.,

    Yay!! 100% easier to read and 100% agreed with your post.

    I hope that Santana tells Minnesota he won’t negotiate an extension if they try to trade him.

    Knowing that the Yankees would be one of the bidders, he’d be in line for a very lucrative contract indeed!

  269. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    The results you say Silva will get doesn’t warrant the money they are paying him.

    What don’t you get about that?

    I think some people should read some eco books before they delve into the deep end in some discussions.

    The Mets had John Maine as their 5th starter at the start of last yr.

    You think he out performed Silva???

    And for what? 1/12 the price if you sign Silva.

  270. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    whozat,

    You didn’t understand me.

    Santana is too close to FA to trade for. Unlike Beckett who Boston had under minimal control for years. If you trade for Santana you are going to have to pay him market rate 20 mill and give up a 24 yr old all star and some pitching.

    Big difference.

  271. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    “Dice K”

    He does NOT belong in the same breath as those other two. MLB players learned to lay off his funky breaking stuff shortly after he got here. He throws WAY too many pitches per start and walks too many guys. Patient offenses, like the Yankees’, destroy him.

  272. Mark Z November 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    Kill me if we give Carlos Silva 10 million bucks.

  273. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    saucy:

    Rough sketch:

    The federal criminal law is the same across the country in the federal courts. It’s based on the US Constitution, federal cases, and Federal statutes. US Attorney Offices across the country vary somewhat from each other based on local priorities, but the law is the same.

    Procedure and law in state courts varies from state to state, but the protections afforded by the US Constitution are the minimum protections each state must afford defendants in state courts. States are free to offer greater protections to defendants than the federal law provides either by state statute, court decisions or based on interpretations of the state constitution. Local Prosecutors focus on local problems by and large, except occasionally DAs like Soares in Albany NY will reach out to handle a more national matter.

    Federal Police agencies vary from state and local police agencies for the same reasons.

  274. Huggy Bear November 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    murphydog-

    what are the odds Bonds gets convicted in SF, where he is surprisingly loved – unlikely. I mean, would any jury in Denver convict John Elway for a similar charge – no.

  275. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    “You didn’t understand me.”

    You’re right; I thought you were making the common argument that they’d risk losing him to free agency in a year, but you weren’t.

    I actually think that no one is going to be willing to give up an elite hitter and a top pitcher in exchange for Johan because, as you say, they still need to sign him to a big contract as soon as he gets there. Whether that means the Twins keep him or he can be had for a mix of high-end prospects and solid (not great) MLB talent remains to be seen.

  276. Andy November 16th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Yeah, Dice K is so bad he won Game 6 of the ALCS, Game 2 of the World Series, won 15 games in the Al East (as a rookie) and struck out over 200.

    He stinks! I wouldn’t want him on the Yanks at all.

  277. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    “Unlike Beckett who Boston had under minimal control for years.”

    Not true, Beckett was already arbitration eligble when he got to the red soxs and he was 2 years away from being a free agent.

  278. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    You’re not getting a discount if you trade for Santana.

    He’d be almost dumb to not try free agency. He could get 25 mill easy on the open market.

    I’d be really wary of giving up the leagues best SP prospect, Hughes, and a young all star 2b for him.

  279. Alberto Gonzalez November 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    What’s the big deal, it’s not like Bonds repeatedly lied before Congress.

  280. Migames November 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    I would give up hughes and cano if there was an extension in place. if not, i would pass

  281. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    I don’t think Theo would trade Ellsbury, Buckholtz and Lester for Johan.

    If he did, Minnesota would probably make that trade today.

    And no one needs to give Johan back channel assurances that the Yanks are “all in” if he makes it to free agency.

    He knows that.

    He also knows the Red Sox, Mets and just about every other team in baseball will be “all in” on him as a free agent.

    The problem is that if a team trades for him and insists on him signing a long term extension as part of the deal and he bites, we won’t ever get the chance to go “all in”.

    I also think if I’m Johan, while I’m confident that I will get big money once I’m a free agent, I have that little voice inside of me that says, “What if I get hurt this season?”.

    If Johan were traded to the type of teams that are looking into him and they offer him a 7 year 140 million extension during the off season, I think you take it so you never have to worry about injury affecting your salary for the rest of your career.

    That’s the danger in not trading for him. Whoever does, is going to do it knowing they have to sign him now in order to justify the talent they give up.

    If Johan comes out and says I won’t sign an extension, then the prospect packages will go down in quality slightly.

    And most of all, what if Hughes or Kennedy turn out to only be #3, #4 starters for their career. I know we’re all expecting huge things from them, but what if Hughes has another hamstring problem?

    Do you hold onto potential when the best pitcher in baseball is there for the taking?

    I don’t. You don’t get a crack at true #1′s too often in baseball. I make the deal, give Johan the extension and exhale knowing we finally have a true ace under 30 in this rotation.

  282. ML November 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    the todd
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
    ML … don’t quote me on this but i believe up until a few years ago it was strictly for amatuer players. just recently they started to allow minor league players to participate but MLB are not allowed in the world cup BUT they are allowed in the world baseball classic. two different entities

    Thanks, the todd (BTW, did you catch scrubs last night? I love ted’s group). That sounds right. Although how then does karstens play since he’s been in MLB lots. Is he under whatever the maximum service time is? Just curious.

  283. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    Arbitration eligible is a little different than free agency.

    For big market teams arbitration is a joke.

    The Sox got to fully control Beckett for years. Which is way more valued than someone about to enter free agency.

    That is why they got 2 A prospects for him.

  284. Patterson November 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Extension in place for Santana?

    six years 130 million isn’t exactly a discount.

    Can’t you do that a year from now without giving up grade A prospects?

  285. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    “You think he out performed Silva???”

    Maine? His 3.91 ERA in the NL east is worse than a 4.31 in the AL Central, no question in my mind.

    I definitely think Silva’d outperform him. Not that Maine is a bad pitcher. You can’t say “why would you sign Silva if you can sign Maine?” because there aren’t Maines out there to sign. And Humber doesn’t look ready to pitch in MLB yet. Nor does Pelfrey. They’re putting up Silva’s MLB production in AAA right now.

  286. Meat Hook November 16th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    G Love,

    A hammy problem isn’t exactly a career ending injury.

    Rotat cuff is a changer. Shoulder problems. Changer.

    I’m not going to write off Hughes because he had a hammy injury.

    Didn’t some guy named Rocket have groin issues every yr too?

  287. Mark Z November 16th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    whozat will never comprehend the fact that paying someone 10$ mill as a 5th starter is different than paying another 5th starter 500 grand and getting equal performance.

  288. John Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    I feel like banging my head against the wall.

    Maine the same value as Silva???

    Wow.

    I can’t take what you say after that seriously again. I’m surprised you’re not advocating the Yanks to sign him since he’ll be a way better 5th starter than kennedy because he has a track record.

  289. RangerRob November 16th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    there are too many posts on this blog.

  290. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    “Yeah, Dice K is so bad he won Game 6 of the ALCS, Game 2 of the World Series, won 15 games in the Al East (as a rookie) and struck out over 200.”

    First of all…not really a rookie, now is he?

    Second, his K:BB was 2.5:1. That’s not anything particularly special.

    Third, none of his playoff performances were very good. Sure, he got wins…with a sweet 5 innings of 2-run ball and 5.1 innings of 2-run ball.

    Those are hardly dominant performances.

  291. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    “I feel like banging my head against the wall.”

    Funny, me too.

    Apparently, you can’t understand that you’re comparing a pitcher of a kind that is unavailable on the market and saying that he should set the value of pitchers that are.

    Pitchers that make league minimum and put up a WHIP of 1.3 or so ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO BE SIGNED. They are irrelevant to the discussion of what Carlos Silva is worth.

    It’s like saying that, because Danny Haren doesn’t make a lot of money yet, the Cubs shouldn’t have paid Zambrano all that money.

  292. mel November 16th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    RangerRob
    November 16th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
    there are too many posts on this blog.

    We’re trying to help out Pete. He’ll get a bonus when the blog hits 200,000 posts. Less than 1000 to go.

  293. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    ML … i loved JD’s fantasy about cox’s off day and them all sliding in and the todd comes flying in with his banana hammock …

    as for karstens, my guess for why he is allowed on team usa with major league experience is that the yankees asked them if karsten could get some work in and he still has minor league options

  294. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    ‘Not true, Beckett was already arbitration eligble when he got to the red soxs and he was 2 years away from being a free agent.”
    the smart thing the red sox did was sign him for three years and 30 million in the middle of a down year in 2006. a team has to make some decisions while things are on sale.

    waiting until the whole world knows someone is good and paying full price isn’t going to keep the payroll flexible. the yankees need someone to identify players before they reach their potential or that they still have it. they don’t get many under market signings.

    calculated chances have to be taken to get deals. lowell was considered washed up when boston was forced to take him to get beckett.sometimes it’s just a bad year and not a trend.

  295. saucy November 16th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    murphdog, i left you a message on the clubbronx board…

    do i still get blog immunity?

  296. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    1. “How do you know he lied? You cannot prove heresay. Just because you “know” he did it doesn’t make it so.”

    I don’t know anything about the case other than what I read, just like you. It looks pretty clear to me that the government thinks he lied and that there is evidence to back that up.

    Hearsay is admissible in any number of circumstances. His steroids test is not hearsay, it’s a BALCO business record pertaining to tests Bonds voluntarily took and it contains information Binds sought. It looks like it could be admissible against Bonds at trial. Juries can lawfully make logical inferences from direct evidence and they do it all the time. Juries almost always have to infer intent or knowledge from other evidence because the defendant seldom says “I knew it was wrong when I did it.” A jury in a Bonds trial can infer his knowledge from all the other evidence in the case.

    2. “But that’s not even the point. The point is the gov’t wasted years and millions going after a casual user.”

    What is this casual user canard? Define “casual user.” Is it some measure of how often he shot up or rubbed in the creme?
    Steroids are not like smoking a joint. There is no arguably casual, recreational use of steroids. Steroids can cause terrible consequences to kids who would emulate Bonds and take them. Steroids are illegal unless prescribed by a legit Doc for a good reason.

    3. Did Bonds make money off drugs?

    Were there kickbacks from BALCO? Who knows. Did he personally sell steroids? I don’t think so, but who knows. But he’s not charged with sale, so what’s the relevance?

    I will say that he wouldn’t have been valuable this late in his career without the “help” he got from steroids. He sold lots of seats he wouldn’t have sold if he didn’t use his little helpers. So he made money from drugs that way.

    4. Did he import it? Sell it? Push it? Clip people who effected his business? Was he a racketeer?

    Racketeer? (What?) I don’t think he was charged with importing, selling or pushing, so what’s the relevance of the question? Apparently possession of illegal drugs is not illegal enough for you.

    Bonds doesn’t have to kill someone before he can be validly prosecuted for possession.

    Sorry, but I’m just not feeling you Patterson.

  297. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    saucy:

    If you do the right thing, I’ll talk to the DA for you, kid. I’ll see what we can do about sentence.

  298. DLev November 16th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    The Santana for Cano/Hughes stuff doesn’t make sense to me, unless Steinbrenner is absolutely desperate for a final WS win. Even then I’m not sure the Yankees are better in the short term — just in a short series. But they have to get to that short series first.

    I might think differently if there weren’t other excellent options hitting free agency the same time as Santana. But next year at this time we might well think Sabathia is a better choice than Santana. Even if he’s not, do the Yankees really want to give up Cano and Hughes for the difference between Santana and Sabathia?

  299. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Huggy Bear:

    They loved him until this. Hard to know how the actual, rather than the rumored, indictment is going to affect his popularity. It’s one thing when it’s just possible. Once they see him arrested they’ll know it’s real and maybe it will hit home.

    But if his lawyers can pick the same kind of jury OJ’s lawyers did, he walks.

  300. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    Who’s writing off Hughes?

    You have to trade value to get value.

    What do you think we’re going to offer them that is going to make them bite without Hughes or Cano being mentioned as the focal point of a package?

    And I used the hamstring example because I can envision Hughes pulling a hammy in June and being out for a month or two and all of us freaking out in here that we didn’t trade him for Johan.

    Santana is an Ace. He’s strikes out over 200 a season. He’s left handed. He’s under 30.

    Hughes might become an ace. He also might become a nice #3 starter.

    Do you take the sure thing or the “might be”.

    It’s not like we’re talking about trading for Kevin Millwood here.

    We’re talking a perennial Cy Young contender who would give up less home runs in Yankee stadium than in Minnesota only making his numbers better.

    I remember the Mets hanging all their hopes on Generation K and we all saw what happened. I’m not saying that the Yankee trio will turn out that way, but we don’t honestly know what they are going to be long term.

    Johan we know what he is already.

    If we don’t get him, I expect the Red Sox to get him and that will be catastrophic.

  301. yankee21 November 16th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Please allow me to change the subject slightly and look it this Santana guy from a different angle..

    Is anyone as amazed as I am about the mere fact that a 28 yr old pitcher, arguably the best P in the ML, is even available?

    If there are any Twins fans who remain Twins fans after this off-season they are truly die-hards. MINN ownership cracks me up. They probably let Tori walk. They pissed off Nathan he wanted out. Now they’ll let go of Santana- for what, another rebuilding mode? How do Twins fans remain Twins fans when they see ownership that doesn’t give a damn about winning? They are the epitomy of a “small-market team” that cries victim and big bad Yankees etc… but love the revenue sharing. One wonders WTH do they do with the $$. Aren’t they opening up a new stadium in 2009? Don’t they have a solid core Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Liriano in addition to Johan??

    It is quite simple. Teams like the twins that cry big bad Yankees and woe is me small market blues, sink their revenues into assets aside outside of baseball. They are the ultimate frauds to the fans and I find it amazing fans can support a team like this.

    A different perspective…

  302. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    saucy:

    I’m having trouble logging in over at Club Bronx. But i’ll keep trying.

  303. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

    I wouldn’t touch CC Sabathia with a 10 foot pole.

    He is built like Mo Vaughn. Maybe bigger.

    He will not have a long healthy career unless he takes care of his body.

    And don’t give me David Wells. They may both be chubby, but they are completely different pitchers.

  304. Sara November 16th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    santana wants out..he made that clear. the twins do not have a centerfielder right now as hunter is a FA. BYE-BYE Melky and Huges…hello Santana. We would finally have a rotation comparable to Boston, as long as Andy come back!

  305. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    waiting until the whole world knows someone is good and paying full price isn’t going to keep the payroll flexible. the yankees need someone to identify players before they reach their potential or that they still have it. they don’t get many under market signings.

    calculated chances have to be taken to get deals. lowell was considered washed up when boston was forced to take him to get beckett.sometimes it’s just a bad year and not a trend.

    This is just too false for me to not say anything. Boston had a payroll this past year of 143mil. You do not get a payroll of 143mil by having all “under the market contracts”

    Plus it’s obvious you know nothing about economics. However here is a fantanstic article about the plummeting value of the US dollar. Perhaps this will help enlighten you about the Yankees overpaying for everyone.

    Please read thoroughly and then come back and say that the Yankees are overpaying. http://www.nysun.com/article/66366

  306. Sara November 16th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    G. Love,
    I 100% agree with you. It is a no brainer to take Johan for Hughes. I mean a 28 year old pitcher who strikes guys out left and right! the Yankees have lacked a true Ace to their rotation. I love Wang, but he isn’t an ace. The Yanks need a strike out, power pitcher guy to be their number 1. When was the last time we had that???

  307. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Furthermore Randy l, in order to sign a player to an “under the market” contract the player has to be willing to accept the contract.

    When Beckett signed his deal that was the first major contract he had ever signed. I’m sure he was happy to sign a long term contract for 30Mil considering he had a history of injury problems. However if he stays healthy and hit’s free agency in 2 years let’s see if he signs an “under the market” contract then.

  308. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    i agree yankee 21 … how the hell they will stay fans is beyond me … same with marlins fans, 2 world series in 10 years and they have had two fire sales … WTF ? baseball has made over 6 billion this year, over 5.7 last year, i have no idea how they distribute this money but i’m sure its divided by 30 for the most part … not too mention revenue sharing. these teams have money just certain owners don’t spend it. it must be brutal to be a fan of those teams.

  309. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    sara, for the last time, u aren’t getting santana for hughes, it would be cano, hughes, and then some for santana. not worth it in my book, especially when he will be a FA in a year.

  310. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    Is anyone as amazed as I am about the mere fact that a 28 yr old pitcher, arguably the best P in the ML, is even available?

    If the Twins could flip Johan into Hughes and Cano or Ellsbury/Buchholz do you not think their fans would still come to the park? I would say that either of those trades would make them better next year.

    Fans will still come to the park if the team is competitive.

    However the Twins have the richest owner in sports and he’s a cheapskate unlike the Yankees owners and that is definitely an issue. He’s been able to get away with it however because his team has been pretty successful for the past 5 years or so.

  311. yankee21 November 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    the todd,,

    Comparing the Marlins and the Twins is tough. The Marlins hold fire sales and slash payroll to league minimums, they just gut the teams so Floridians never really have a chance to connect.

    Teams like the Twins however suck their fans along into thinking Ownership is committed, support a new stadium, we’ll compete etc.. But what do they do??

    They let Luis Castillo go for a song..
    They let Tori walk without so much as a fight..
    They appear to be letting Santana go etc..

    Yet they collect the $$$ and encourage the fans to support their Twins.. What a crock??

    A lot of people may not like Stein and his sons,, but you can never say they are not committed.

  312. G. Love November 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    the todd,

    Your comments are wrong.

    The Yankees will not trade Cano or Hughes OR Cano and Hughes without signing Johan to an extension first.

    No team will make that trade for a rental player. If it’s deemed he’s only a 1 year rental, than the package quality will go down.

    If the Yankees can get Johan signed to an extension, then they would trade Hughes in a heartbeat. If you don’t think that, fine. But every GM in baseball would trade Hughes for Johan if you knew you had Johan locked up for the next 7 years of his career.

  313. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    “How do Twins fans remain Twins fans when they see ownership that doesn’t give a damn about winning?”
    and now for another perspective on the twins. they simply don’t have the numbers of potential fans out there to increase the fanbase if they sign all their free agents. they can’t sell tickets to cows, can they?

    the fact they spit out so may good players shows they care about winning. i think the twins are an excellent organization, but that they can’t hold on to every good player when they hit free agency. it’s just a numbers game.

  314. yankee21 November 16th, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    ray,,

    I think you missed my point. Why are the Twins even contemplating moving Santana? This is the guy you build a team around,, the ace of aces, the horse, the guy who can win you 18-20 year in year out for the next 3-5 years,, this is not a guy you cut loose for prospects.

    You really expect the Yankees to fork over both Hughes and Cano for Santana?? Of course the Twins would be happy, who wouldn’t? Regarding the RSox,, you expect the Sox to fork over their #1 pitching prospect and their #1 hitting prospect for Santana,, maybe they might but if they did of course the Twins would be happy too.

    They may get Hughes or they may get Cano but they won’t get both.

  315. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge November 16th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    Has anyone bought this?

    http://www.amazon.com/Yankeeog.....038;sr=1-1

  316. pat November 16th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    It’s repeatedly been reported that Johan isn’t signing an extension. He is going to try out free agency. If the Yanks can get him into a room to discuss it, bring in A-Rod and see if he could convince him otherwise.

  317. yankee21 November 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Please please ….

    Nobody is trading for Johan without agreement on an extension.

    And yes, I move Hughes in a heartbeat for Santana.. But,,, Cano sure as hell doesn’t go with him.

  318. Sara November 16th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Todd, i am not naive to think that it would be just hughes, but people are freaking out that the yankees could possibly trade hughes where what those who want santana the point is you are trading away a possiblity for the real thing. I don’t want to see Robbie go but don’t the yankees already have a proven hitting line up? we need an ace!!!!!!

  319. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Yankee21 I got your point, my point is that they don’t want to pay him 20+ a year and if they trade him they would make their team better.

    Secondly, perhaps you haven’t seen any of my posts, but I’ve been saying for a few days that if the Yankees traded Cano and Hughes for Santana Brian Cashman is on PCP. So know I don’t expect the Yankees or Red Sox to offer such outlandish deals for Santana’s services.

  320. Wolf In Pinstripes November 16th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    “saucy:

    I’m having trouble logging in over at Club Bronx. But i’ll keep trying.”

    murph – if you keep having trouble, send me an email at webmaster@clubbronx.com and I’ll set a temp password for you to use and then you can change it after you log in to whatever you like.

  321. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    my point is it’ll take more than cano and hughes even with an extension. if it was hughes for santana with an extension i’d do it, even though i have a hughes jersey :( but what if it took, hughes, cano, melky and tabata. we gain a game changing ace, but we lose our starting CF, a cheap starter, one of the premier young hitters and an above avg 2nd baseman, not to mention our #3 hitter for the next decade, and our future corner outfielder. would u do that trade with an extension to santana?

    i don’t know if i would. thats tough one.

  322. yankee21 November 16th, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    ray.. understand and agree about trading both Hughes and Cano. Sorry I haven’t read all your posts.

    randyi…I selected debating the Twins because I think as far as organizational development they are pretty damn good,, but as far as an owner that has incredible resources to keep his team competitive,, yet continuously says no, I find it amazing Twins fans can stay Twins fans– knowing full well they are supporting an owner that is duping them all.

  323. raymagnetic November 16th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    but what if it took, hughes, cano, melky and tabata.

    If the Yankees traded all of these guys for Santana then that is not Brian Cashman running the Yankees. It is Theo Epstein in a ‘Mission Impossible’ type Brian Cashman mask.

  324. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    “This is just too false for me to not say anything. Boston had a payroll this past year of 143mil. You do not get a payroll of 143mil by having all “under the market contracts” ”

    damn, i was trying to be just false enough that you wouldn’t say anything.

    by saying the red sox have some under market contracts is not saying they have all under market contracts. they have some bad deals no doubt(good thing). my point is they have some under market deals.

    what are the under market deals the yankees have? i can’t think of a single one.

  325. Wolf In Pinstripes November 16th, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    “but what if it took, hughes, cano, melky and tabata. we gain a game changing ace, but we lose our starting CF, a cheap starter, one of the premier young hitters and an above avg 2nd baseman, not to mention our #3 hitter for the next decade, and our future corner outfielder. would u do that trade with an extension to santana?”

    I’m totally with you on that one, the todd. Meaning I’m not sure I would do it. Apart from the obvious “do you give up your house, TV, and boat so that you can ghet that Ferrari” angle, am I the only one that noticed the change in Santana’s numbers this past year? Even if they are an aberration, what happens if he follows the star-pitcher-turned-Yankee stigma that happens so often and he gets injured or is is a bust in the transition to NY? Is it worth that risk to give up several players? Not just players, but GOOD players.

  326. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 5:13 pm

    that’s what i mean wolf … what if he comes over and pulls a jeff weaver? weaver was a young stud on the tigers. granted he was no santana, but he came over here as our “ace of the future” and jus sucked … another thing about santana i don’t like is the innings hes thrown, its a catch 22, he will give ya 200+ innings, but what if that arm goes out? now, he is a fastball change up guy, he has that going for him, so he shouldn’t have any arm troubles. but that sure is alot of innings. can you imagine if he imploded and had terrible numbers or if he was injured and we traded away all those players for him ? ugh. terrible.

    It’s just so much of a risk trading for him. IMO we should wait it out until he hits the market (assuming he does) and sign him then. I’d love to see what joba and hughes can become.

  327. murphydog November 16th, 2007 at 5:13 pm

    Wolfie:

    All good. I figured it out. Thanks. How are you by the way?

  328. mel November 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    Pete,

    Here’s some vacation reading (it’s loooong).

    You Belichick bashers should read it, too. Just remember, there’s two sides to every coin.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....=belichick

  329. Drive 4-5 November 16th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    Follow this link from USA Today and you will find that the Red $ox were 1st in the majors in median salary in ’07. Surprisingly, the Yanks were 14th.

    According to Mirriam Websters : median -
    a value in an ordered set of values below and above which there is an equal number of values.

    http://asp.usatoday.com/sports.....?year=2007

  330. LathamJoe November 16th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

    “what are the under market deals the yankees have? i can’t think of a single one.”

    Depends on what you consider “under market deals”.
    Free agents, no. But they do have an All Star 2nd basemen, a good young league average centerfielder, a two-time 19-Game winner, and a solid No. 3 starter that they are paying
    “under market” salaries for.
    The value of developing in-house talent!

  331. Drive 4-5 November 16th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    I meant the Yanks were 9th in median salry. sorry.

    I guess what it means is that the mid level salaries on the Red $ox were higher than any other team. You throw out the salaries at the top and the ones at the bottom.

    Yes, the Yanks have a high payroll. But this holier than thou air of some $ox fans begets the fact that they had a $90mil payroll advantage in the World Series. The pot shouldnt call the kettle black.

  332. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    “what are the under market deals the yankees have? i can’t think of a single one.”

    Well, coming into this offseason, both Mo and Jorge were on under-market-value deals. I mean, Mo is better than Wagner, and he was getting the same money.

  333. mel November 16th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    O.K. just checked out this Kim Kardashian you guys were raving about. #1 She’s not that good looking. #2 She’s denying AES (asset enhancing surgery)?

  334. Drive 4-5 November 16th, 2007 at 5:34 pm

    Under market values for the Yanks: How ’bout their 97 rbi secondbase man Cano? Or their 19 game winner Wang? Dollar for dollar those are 2 pretty hard deals to beat. Combined they made less than $1mil last year.

    But to Latham Joe’s point. You cant get a better deal than young home grown talent.

  335. Wolf In Pinstripes November 16th, 2007 at 5:37 pm

    I’m doing fine, murphy – nice of you to ask. :) Getting ready to open a business, which is one reason why I have been scarce on the blogs and boards lately. Thanks for asking though – and I’m glad you got the login figured out.

    the todd – I couldn’t agree more. I really want to see what happens with the young talent we’ve drafted and developed. Hughes could get injured, just any of the others could as well – but I’d rather see that happen to a younger guy that we’ve developed and doesn’t cost us a ton of money or players in return. Obviously, I don’t want them to get hurt. Just sayin’ …

  336. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    mel, check out Kim’s sister, Kourtney. Much hotter and more natural (or if she had AES it’s less notable).

  337. Jimmy November 16th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    We’re signing Lowell!!

  338. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    “Combined they made less than $1mil last year.”

    Yeah, essentially the only way to get under-market deals is to sign your own young players before they get the chance to get out there and test market value. And you have to develop them first:-)

    Three years from now, I’m sure the Yanks will have several under-market contracts to go with their expensive vets (Jorge, Jeter, ARod, Mo, etc).

  339. Lauren November 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    we all know boston will end up with santana for for two A-ballers and a water boy so no sense in debating karstens trade value.

    everyone needs to just simmer down with the mo criticism. the man is a god, let him throw his weight around if he wants. i want joba in the starting rotation and we need a closer. with all the money on the table right now (payrod, lowell offer, jorge) he wants to get his due and i can’t blame him. he’ll come around though.

    all i’m saying is please don’t take for granted the years of near flawless service this hall of famer has given us. he has quietly been our best, most consistent pitcher over the last decade — remember that before you dismiss him so easily.

  340. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    We’re signing Lowell!!

    Is your excitement due to anger, happiness, or fact?

  341. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    Part of the supposed Lowell money should go to Fransisco Cordero instead.

  342. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    “Is your excitement due to anger, happiness, or fact?”

    I’m pretty sure that dude’s a troll. So, it’s almost certainly false.

  343. DVB, in Spirit & Mind November 16th, 2007 at 6:00 pm

    http://www.associatedcontent.c.....owell.html
    .
    I would not be so sure that he is not right. Lowell to the Yankees is looming….Sweet !

  344. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:00 pm

    Thanks. That’s what I figured, whozat.

  345. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    hopefully the offer was just to get boston to pony up some more money … there is no reason to sign lowell … hes a dead pull hitter (not good for yankee stadium) we already have a 3rd baseman, and he’s never played 1st base before. not to mention its way too much money for some one his age. no thanks. cash$ isn’t stupid. no way this happens.

  346. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    DVB, we know the Yanks either offered that to him legitimately or leaked it to affect his negotiations with the Sox.

    Like I said, I’d rather pour that money into Cordero, who’s protection if we don’t sign Mo or if Mo continues to decline. We need relief and starting (a dominant #1) pitching more than 1B.

  347. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    “Well, coming into this offseason, both Mo and Jorge were on under-market-value deals.”
    posada’s past contract seemed about right. mo’s seems a little low. i guess that’s why mo wants to catch up a little.

    i was thinking of players who had reached their free agent years. under 6 year players usually have little choice unless their team wants to sign a long term contract. that would be an excellent idea with cano by the way . can you imagine what he’ll get when he hit his agency?

  348. DVB, in Spirit & Mind November 16th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    Migames ….and I thought that me and my Dad were the only Yankees & Cubs Fans on the planet !

  349. LathamJoe November 16th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    Signing Lowell only makes sense if he stays at third base for the next 3 years. If the Yankees go through with this signing, something tells me Cano gets traded!
    I hope I’m wrong.

  350. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    “Part of the supposed Lowell money should go to Fransisco Cordero instead.”

    He’ll get closer money and closing opportunity somewhere else.

    I was looking at Affeldt as an interesting lefty option, but it turns out that even in his first “good” year (last year) he still walked a truckload of guys, and was worse against lefties than righties. So, pass on him too.

    There’s not much out there in the reliever category. Linebrink, but he doesn’t look as good as he used to. 04 and 05 were his really good years, and he’s fallen off since then. And he’ll command a four year deal, most likely. And that doesn’t seem wise, given that he’s coming off a not-awesome year and relievers are notoriously variable from season to season. I’d sign him for two years, probably. But I just really feel him being a disappointment, especially since his walks started shooting up after his trade last season.

  351. randy l. November 16th, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    oops…. i meant” can you imagine what he’ll get when he hits his free agency?”

  352. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    whozat, if Mo delays his decision much longer or signs elsewhere, the “supposed” Lowell money (if serious) should then go to Cordero.

    Even if we sign Mo, at least make a sizable offer to Cordero and see if he bites. Then trade Farns somewhere, if possible.

    That frees up Joba to start either way, whether Mo signs or not.

  353. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    “i was thinking of players who had reached their free agent years. under 6 year players usually have little choice unless their team wants to sign a long term contract. that would be an excellent idea with cano by the way . can you imagine what he’ll get when he hit his agency?”

    That’s my point. You usually don’t get players under market value once they hit free agency, unless you lock them up long-term before they do:-)

    Or, you lock them up long-term in their first free-agency deal and they stay great. If the market outpaces their raises…voila. But that’s pretty rare.

    Or, you find a guy coming off injury and get lucky.

  354. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    LathamJoe, the only way the Yanks should trade Cano is as part of a package for Santana if he agrees to an extension before the trade is finalized.

    Santana is one of the few players in baseball that I wouldn’t mind trading Cano for.

  355. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    “Lowell money (if serious) should then go to Cordero.”

    I don’t think Cordero is at risk of signing anywhere until Mo does. He sets the market, you know?

    If Mo signs, it’ll take 4/40 to sign Cordero. I really think that we’ll all be complaining that we’re paying 10 mil for a setup guy in a year or two if the Yanks do that.

    They have a lot of interesting bullpen arms. I really think they need to decide which of them they can teach to pitch instead of throw, and then try to package the others (and Farnsworth) off in deals for position player prospects and maybe a veteran arm in the pen.

  356. JDnotDrew November 16th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    Not sure I want Lowell on this team but he is not a dead pull hitter. He tends to be more of a contact hitter with men on base. This is what makes him a clutch hitter. I think his average will suffer from a change of position. He’s a good fielder so maybe not but I say don’t sign him.

  357. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

    duckybent, i’m curious, if you could trade santana and get him to sign an extension who would you be willing to give up in the trade along with cano ? (don’t forget to make it fair for the twins)

  358. LathamJoe November 16th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    Ducky Bent:
    That’s what I’m imagining. Lowell plays third, ARod moves to ss, Jeter to 2nd or some combination of positions for those three. Cano (coveted by Minnesota) and Hughes or Wang, plus a lower level prospect to the Twins for Santana.
    I’d love to see Santana, but not at the expense of losing Cano.

  359. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    Ducky,

    Ok, just found a picture of the 3 sisters. Kim did look the best.

  360. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    I hear ya, whozat, especially about the interesting young arms . But, if we can move Farns and his 5.5 mil, it’ll make it more palatable.

    Hopefully, Mo “spits” or gets off the pot. If he wants to go elsewhere, or thinks that the Yank’s ridiculously generous offer isn’t good enough for him, I’d go after Cordero.

    If they don’t sign Mo, other than trading for a Broxton, I don’t a much better solution.

  361. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    Todd, I think that LathamJoe’s proposal is fair and makes sense. Cano and either Hughes or Wang, plus maybe a lower level, but promising prospect. I might even consider Tabata if we get more in return.

  362. JDnotDrew November 16th, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    AROD and Jeter won’t be moving positions. This isn’t musical infield. Not saying the team wouldn’t be better defensively but I don’t see that happening.

  363. B.stanley November 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

    The Netherlands has a baseball team?

  364. Dr. Acula November 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

    AES doesn’t bother me. It’s all good. I’d advise against it – it’s painful. Not only that, attraction comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Plus, the most important element is personality (humor, verve, deft, edge).

    here’s a one of Lindsay earning x-tra points by playing coy with Kim, who’s too reserved.

    http://tinyurl.com/227482

  365. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

    mel, really? I think Kim looks like a plastic surgeon’s dream. Kourtney has the same exotic looks, but more natural.

  366. JDnotDrew November 16th, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    Hot x 3 on the sisters and nice link pic Doc.

  367. Jennifer - HIP HIP JORGE! November 16th, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    Did Jorge have his Conference call yet?

  368. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    Kim looks like Salma Hayek in that pic.

    I heard that Lohan’s writing a book, From Cute to Trash, My Personal Journey

  369. Buddy Biancalana November 16th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    Doc, love your Heidi Klum photo as well…

  370. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    “Not sure I want Lowell on this team but he is not a dead pull hitter.”

    Look at his spread charts. All his doubles and homers at Fenway were shots at the monster, and that’s what boosted his stats. He was about his career average in 2006 (.280ish/.340ish/.470ish) which is solid, but not the kind of player you pay 15 mil a year for. Especially not when he’s certain to start falling off halfway into the deal.

  371. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

    “Cano and either Hughes or Wang, plus maybe a lower level, but promising prospect. I might even consider Tabata if we get more in return.”

    Who are we bidding against here? Who else is giving up an established, 24 year old all-star for Santana?

  372. LathamJoe November 16th, 2007 at 6:35 pm

    JDnotDrew :
    The “Joe Torre Era” has ended. We’ve already seen a more
    proactive role by Joe Girardi . I’m sure there will be more thinking “outside the box” than ever before.
    After all, ARod moved when he joined the Yankees and so did Cano during his MiLB career.

  373. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    Ducky,

    Yeah in the first pic I saw I couldn’t get past Kim’s eyebrows. In the 3 sis pic, Kim’s brows were cleaned up, she had makeup, and she was blowing a kiss. Kourtney looked like a brunette Olsen twin. Kinda plain. I’m only looking at their faces, obviously. lol.

  374. JDnotDrew November 16th, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    He was aiming for the monster because it’s there. I’m not saying he doesn’t pull the ball,I’m saying he changes his approach with runners on especially in scoring position. e becomes more of a contact hitter and sprays the ball around. Again at Fenway , the monster is there and he aims for it.

  375. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    JDnotDrew,

    Save your breath, if Lowell does end up in the Bronx, they’ll come around. I’m such a boob, I kind of like the whole homecoming thing for Lowell.

  376. the todd November 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    i have a few problem with lathamjoes proposal though, we were discussing this earlier so I won’t go into complete detail but lets say they offer cano, wang or hughes, and tabata for santana

    they don’t want wang. well, at least not for the santana deal. A: he is terrible on turf. B: he is ony cheap for 2 more years. he is arbitrational eligible starting this year. so if we did cano, hughes and tabata for santana plus a extension … No thanks … cano is our #3 hitter for the next decade, hughes is a cheap above avg pitcher (assuming he is the pitcher we saw in his last few appearences which is reasonable) and tabata is our future middle of the order corner outfielder. we want to give up all this, not to mention losing offense for a lefty ace? its tempting yes, but worth it? not in my opinion.

    arod to SS jeter to 2nd and lowell to 3rd ? i just threw up in my mouth

    jeter is not moving for anyone. lowell is asking for way too much and arod doesn’t have the range for a SS anymore.

  377. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    “Who are we bidding against here? Who else is giving up an established, 24 year old all-star for Santana?”

    To compete for Santana, I don’t think a lesser package would do. Cano at 2b would be somewhat easier to replace than a dominant ace, probably the best in the game.

    I can see the Sox offering Pedroia, Buchholz and maybe a Lester or a prospect for Santana. The Yankees package would be better of course, but that’s what it might take.

  378. TurnTwo November 16th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    I’m also of the mind that if they move forward with this Lowell signing, it would be a precursor to another move.

    I could absolutely see the Yankees then packaging Cano, plus Tabata and a pitching prospect for Santana (extention in hand).

    Sending Cano would be a way to ensure you can keep at least Joba and Hughes together, while adding a true Ace to the staff.

    Think about that… you’d have a lineup that’d go:

    Damon, Jeter, Abreu, ARod, Matsui, Lowell, Posada, Melky, and

    and you could have a starting rotation that’d go

    Santana
    Wang
    Wang
    Pettitte
    Joba
    Hughes

    are you kidding me?

    i love Robby, but it’s not really that hard to find options to fill 2B. When you can get you hands on a stud like Johan, you do it.

  379. JDnotDrew November 16th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    Latham- If the infield moves around like you are suggesting I will give you props for that call but I wouldn’t hold your breath. Torre era has nothing to do with this. You think Joe G is gonna come in and tell Jeter he has to move? Never happen. AROD move again? Just can’t see it.

  380. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

    Ducky,

    The only thing is that Buchholz projects to be a #1 (supposedly). Can’t see the Red Sox trading away 2 young pitchers who threw no-hitters. Unless they find some skeletons in Buchholz’s closet. :lol:

  381. whozat November 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    “I’m saying he changes his approach with runners on especially in scoring position.”

    And I’m saying that the only reason he had numbers that are worth looking at is because of the monster. Without that, he’s a solid but very normal hitter, and you don’t need to offer 4/60 to a 34 year old guy and play him out of position to get a normal hitter that can spray singles around the field with runners on base.

    Hey, if he was looking for 2/20, we had Teixeira at 1B, and a hole at 3B, I’d be all over it.

  382. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    Turn Two,

    But why not keep Joba, Hughes, and Cano? Roll the dice on getting Santana in ’09.

  383. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    “I’m only looking at their faces, obviously. lol.”

    mel,

    SURE you are…lol. So when will your Kim xxx video be arriving??

  384. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    mel,

    Well Buchholz DID get busted for stealing laptops in college. Does that count as a skeleton? :)

  385. Joe from Long Island November 16th, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    Whozat – I don’t agree with everything you post, but I do agree with your last comment. Who are the Red Sox offering? Anyone see them put up Pedroia or Youkilis? Is Seattle putting up King Felix? (For those who criticize Hughes for his injury, how about Felix? How many Cy Young awards has he won? Will Seattle offer him?) For those suggesting Wang, Hughes or Cano…Where’s the offer on the table for Felix, JJ Putz, and maybe Beltre for Santana?

    You get my point. For those who think we needlessly run up the tabs for ARod, Jorge, and Mo…maybe this is the same thing.

    Give Cash some time to see what the real offers that Minny gets are. The season doesn’t start tomorrow.

  386. JDnotDrew November 16th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    Whozat- If you read that whole post I said I’m not for getting him ,I was just saying he isn’t always dead pull. I’m worried about our pen and SP. If they are solid then Phillips could play first and we’d still rake .

  387. nate c. November 16th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

    i may be in the minority but i think signing lowell for 4 years 60mm is lunacy. i’d go so far as to say that is jd drew territory

  388. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    Ducky,

    LOL. “mel” does not stand for Melvin.

  389. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    Mel,

    Oh snap! (and I NEVER say snap)

    I’m turning red. Sorry Ms. Mel! :)

  390. mel November 16th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    Ducky,

    :oops:

    :lol:

  391. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    Pwned?

  392. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    Yep, teh Pawn!!!!11

    Mow I kinda understand mel’s comments about Kim’s eyebrows. I was a little confused about that. LOL

  393. TurnTwo November 16th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Santana will NEVER make it to free agency. you can mark that down right now.

    his freedom hinges on whether or not the Twins can afford to extend him. If they cant, then the Twins HAVE to trade him, before they pull a Washington Nationals blunder when they let Soriano walk and they got nothing.

    and if they trade him, whatever team is getting him is not going to do so w/o locking him up long term.

    so if you’re Cashman, you make the deal now.

  394. mel November 16th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Haha. You must’ve been thinking, “Why the hell is he looking at her eyebrows?”

    It’s o.k. We’re all going nuts while we wait for Mo to decide the fate of the universe. lol.

  395. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    I got my eyebrows done today!

    No, really! My brother’s wedding is tomorrow so I got the hair and eyebrows done. Fancy shmancy.

  396. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    ha. I did wonder a bit, considering that I didn’t even know, or care, if she even had eyebrows. lol.

    Re Mo, I’m at the point where I’m tiring of the greed all around. He’s 38 and will only go into further decline. If he feels disrespected, then he and the Yanks should move on.

    With all the accolades given him for the past (and rightfully so), I’m sure that the Yanks didn’t express their and the fans disappointment with his costing the team two potential rings (1997 and 2004) and one sure one (2001) to his face.

  397. hmmm November 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    “I would not be so sure that he is not right. Lowell to the Yankees is looming….Sweet ”

    not for nothing, but this is just the same rumor being repeated over and over with no new source or information.

    i’m not saying it definitely won’t happen, but all that is happening is the same rumor is being repeated in different places and everytime someone sees it they think the yankees are closer to signing him.

  398. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    hmmm,

    I think that it’s a good guess that the Yanks are leaking this info and not denying it to drive up his price with the Sox.

  399. mel November 16th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    In semi-related news, Kenny Rogers drops Scott Boras as his agent. Rogers was reportedly unhappy after Gambler 3 negotiations broke down.

  400. Ducky Bent November 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    So I guess that Kenny Rogers wasn’t happy about being reduced to appearing on American Idol.

  401. Wolf In Pinstripes November 16th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    LOL @ mel & Bucky.

    That’s the risk on some of these blogs, but it makes for a good-natured laugh sometimes. There’s a couple of posters here that come to mind that I’m not sure if they are male or female – and that may very well be the way the want it so I’ve never asked.

  402. Dr. Acula November 16th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    No doubt, Heidi is hoppin’- Olbermann ran a clip of Grrlfriend table-grinding on the Ellen DeGeneres’ show.

    http://tinyurl.com/34rbft

    Mel, don’t be tricked by the prissy set, you’re too good for that. Trash is a good thang – they punch through the envelope and sharpen the edge. The insecure and colorless crowd want us to shun badically, cool, revolutionary Grrls cuz they’re a threat.

  403. Dr. Acula November 16th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

    Rebecca-

    I got my eyebrows done today!

    Post some pixels, Grrl.

  404. Doreen November 16th, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    I’ve just gotten the biggest laugh I’ve had in a while!

    I was out all day and just reading (skimming, really) to see if there was any real news (because, I’d rather skim through 1,000 comments than turn on the tv or radio) about the Yankees today. And turns out the biggest news is Mel.

  405. mel November 16th, 2007 at 7:57 pm

    Doreen,

    HaHa! I’ve been outed!

    Dr. Acula,

    I can still appreciate beauty. Heidi and Giselle are much better looking than Lindsay and Paris. Grace Kelly and Audrey Hepburn were two of the most beautiful women ever because of how they carried themselves.

  406. Tommy November 16th, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    Good call on Audrey Hepburn!
    Don’t forget Natalie Wood!

  407. mel November 16th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    Wait…that first part came out wrong. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  408. Dr. Acula November 16th, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    Oooh, Rita Hayworth and Carole Lombard!

    Not to mention juicy-page-turning-gossip Grrls, Ava Gardner, Lana Turner, Brigitte Bardot, Kate Hepburn, and Ingrid Bergman.

    It’s almost like things were more open, back then.

  409. Rebecca--Optimist Prime November 16th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    Dr. A–plenty of pixels on the blog after the wedding…so check it out on Sunday!

  410. Jim Clark November 16th, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    If I was Santana (or his agent) I wouldn’t be signing any deals unless they were for humongous amounts of money. There are virtually no pitchers available on the free agent market. With baseball now at $6 billion in revenue and growing faster than the Dog Killers League, why not let 30 (maybe 10) teams determine your value in Nov 2008? Unless you feel an injury is possible but I don’t think think athletes do. Also as Pete Abraham suggested recently are the Twinkies going to trade Santana for a few prospects if they are trying to sell tickets?

  411. rover November 18th, 2007 at 6:41 am

    once in awhile through all this contractural posturing going on. i see the name wilson betemit tendered as a possibility to do something. does it make anyone else cringe, sure makes me miss miggy. i know wilson could play if that is what one would call what he does every day and miggy well he can’t. i can’t forget those feww games miggy handled 1b this year. somehow someway i just think the betemit for miggy thing was just a waste and a real slap in the face to miggy. miggy playing two/three days a week is far more serviceable than wilson playing all 162.

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