Rivera close to a deal, what about Pettitte?
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- November
- 19
It sounds like Mariano Rivera will accept the three-year deal from the Yankees this week now that he has returned home from the Dominican.
Now the focus goes to Andy Pettitte. Get him back and the Yankkes are set for 2008, at least to start. If he retires, I think they need a lefty starter and that means chasing Johan Santana now, not later.
The U.S. won the World Cup, beating Cuba. Jeff Karstens didn’t pitch in the final, having started two days prior. Going 2-0 in the tournament and winning a gold medal is a nice jumpstart for 2008 for him.
——————
Caught Bruce Springsteen and the great E Street Band on Sunday night in Boston. Bruce, as you may know, is a serious Yankees fan. After a few songs, he said, “Greetings Boston, home of the world champion …”
But he didn’t say “Red Sox” and the crowd laughed as he grimaced.
For those interested (and I know you’re out there) Bruce did a great version of Jungleland. Also trotted out Jackson Cage. It’s a fast-paced, uplifting show. The guy has amazing energy for 58 and played for well over two hours.
Tonight is the last show of the U.S. leg of the tour and I’ll be there again. Then the vacation focus will be on family, football and maybe some blackjack at Mohegan Sun.
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on Monday, November 19th, 2007 at 2:00 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
I knew Pete couldn’t help but blog on his vacation.The Yankees have to think in the winte meeting Pettitte might retire.Thats a problem.
And what would we do without Pete? The man has us, hook, line, and sinker, and John and Susyn won’t call a pitch for 150 days.
A jumpstart for Karstens to be traded, I hope, because he isn’t good enough to be on the Yankees’ pitching staff.
It is absolutely ridiculous that Pettitte will decide whether he wants to play next year by the new year, 44 or more days from now when he’s had since early October when the Yanks got knocked out of the postseason to think it through. I understand if he or any player wants to get away from baseball for the rest of October esp. after a first-round exit, but he needs most of October through December
almost three full monthsnot counting days in January to make up his mind? Gimme a break! The guy sits around his house all day. He can’t gather his family in the living room for an hour or so and talk it out?The Yanks gave him $16M this year and left another $16M on the table for him to take no matter how he did this year, he owes it to the Yanks to make up his mind within a reasonable amount of time. By the new year is not reasonable at all. It’s actually hurtful cuz what if some other team gets Johann Santana, Roy Oswalt, A.J. Burnett, or any other ace/ ace-like starter? Then he officially screwed the Yanks who’d probably like to go with a Pettitte/ Wang/ Hughes/ Chamberlain/ Mussina rotation with the option to go for Santana or whoever else if the opportunity arises before 2008. He put it out there he’s undecided, so nevermind “it shouldn’t matter what he does”. You don’t leave your team hanging and so far that’s what he’s doing. I bet it didn’t take him very long to accept $16M with the chance to make double that last offseason. A decision by Thanksgiving is considerate cuz then the team has the option to make a big splash before Christmas.
How great would it be for Pettitte to announce he’s returning next year Thanksgiving eve, the deal is done the Monday after Thanksgiving, and the Yanks get Santana by Christmas? He’s making that impossibility by taking his sweet-ass time to decide on 2007. Too bad Cashman didn’t grow some balls and tell him the Yanks need to know his decision by the end of November cuz the team wants to pursue Johann Santana and ideally get him before Christmas after that which would’ve been a more than reasonable request. Hardly being pushy and if so hey, this is the New York Yankees not the New York Pettittes.
My thoughts on the pitching staff:
Livan Hernandez (allegedly 32 years old)has pitched 200 or more innings in 9 of the last 10 years…his only miss, he pitched 199 2/3 innings. Innings eater that seems to have plenty of quality starts ( albeit in the N.L.).
Josh Fogg, 31 years old, bulldog mentality, and innings eater.
Kerry Wood, Mariano’s setup man. Still fairly young and throws gas. Won’t be as injury prone in the setup role because of low innings pitched. Has to be better than Farnsworth and gives us a similar presence to Joba out of the pen. This also allows for Joba to entrench into a starters mindset.
Just a personal opinion. There are a couple other starters in the FA pool that could fit, also.
Karstens, Clippard and maybe DeSalvo (or a low-level pitching prospect) may be enough to pry Tim Hudson from the Braves. Who Knows?
black_tiger,
I thought the Kerry wood idea sounded great as well when I first heard it proposed. Then I heard that he’s barely hitting 88 – 90 on the gun. Does anyone have any information on this?
Let’s go Yankkkkkes
When he came back in Sept, I saw Kerry Wood hit 94-96 consistently on the gun. But his health will be an issue. I’d still take the gamble though. Or sign Troy Percival.
If Wood can stay healthy he would be a great addition to our staff. He still has some nasty stuff..
Pettittes’ decision will have no baring regarding deals the Yankees intend to make. He will only be icing on the cake, if he returns.
Pete, always split your eights and aces.
So, basically, Cano and Melky are left hanging (the Twins will want them in any Santana trade)while Andy Pettitte him-haws for a few months. Not a good situation. C’mon Andy, your indecision is affecting the Yankees’ plans to a huge degree.
Let’s forget about Wood…not a good move.
Cano and Melky aren’t left hanging. Nobody knows what the Twins will want. Players must be able to deal with speculation.
“Karstens, Clippard and maybe DeSalvo (or a low-level pitching prospect) may be enough to pry Tim Hudson from the Braves. Who Knows?”
Now that is funny
Kerry Wood may require extensive physicals if seriously pursued and if things are thumbs up, he would need the mindset of knowing his career will be as a set-up man and not a starter. He could share roles with Vizcaino and Edwar Ramirez with Farnsworth available in a deal.
I envision Ross Ohlendorf as a long relief man in ‘08.
I agree with you Vader, Pettitte can take his time because I don’t think it is going to affect what the Yankees do,he has already said that is NYY or retirement and I believe him and if we need to make room for him buy out Mussina he is done. I really can’t believe that we gave Mo’ that much money and YRS. He’ll be 41 buy the end of that contract and I think he is done now he is not automatic anymore
I would take Kerry Wood for the beck end of the pen, but it seems as though he wants to come out of the gates next year and give starting another try. It’s more than likely he’ll re-up with the Cubs, but he apparently has a good relationship with Girardi from back in the day, should the Yankees make a bid.
Livan Hernandez would be a disaster in the AL. I also wouldnt touch Troy Percival of 3 years ago, let alone sign him now. The Braves arent moving Tim Hudson, but for the right price, he might be worth a flyer only if Pettitte doesnt return to the team.
I would guess the Twins are not taking Melky in a Santana trade so he doesnt have to worry much. He really doesnt hold that much value to other teams. He’d prob fetch someone’s decent middle reliever, not the best SP in the league.
Yanks playing USF in addition to VATech in spring training. Tino was volunteer hitting coach for USF last year so that must be how this came about.
http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/comments/usf-vs-ny-yankees-this-spring/
If all else fails, Livan Hernandez or Josh Fogg could be better options than Mussina. Both are well documened innings eaters which bodes well for the bullpen. Staked to a decent lead it would be of no consequence if either gave up a few runs over 7+ innings.
I remember going to see Springsteen and leaving after 3 1/2 hours, exhausted. He was still playing, in the middle of his third very long encore.
Still, two hours plus isn’t bad for 58.
It doesn’t matter who is a better option than moose. Moose is under contract for 2008. So he is almost guaranteed a Yankee next year whether we like it or not.
Tahnk you, Andrea. At least i’m not the only one who understands this. Moose isnt going anywhere, and he has one year left. You just have to hope that Girardi puts him into situations, whether its long man out of the pen or back end of the rotation, where he is besr able to succeed.
and personally, i’d rather take whatever junk Moose throws instead of overpaying another “innings-eater” like Livan or Josh Fogg to do the exact same thing.
I just read in the Bergen Record, that Mo didn’t even ask for a 4th year. He was shocked and didn’t know where that came from. Also according to a friend he would have taken 2 and an option year. Amazing how stories get twisted and made up.
Jennifer this is the problem who do you believe the Bergen Record says that yet the Daily News (Feisand) says that Mo is trying to get an vesting 4th year and that he is really mad about the 4th year.
Both say he will re-sign but very different perspectives
gayle, it is hard to say. I believe Feisand is respected and should know what he is talking about. I don’t know what to believe.
An announcement likely will come today.
There had been speculation that Girardi might end up on rival ESPN 1050, whose afternoon host is Michael Kay, with whom Girardi worked at the YES Network. But WFAN, whose sister station WCBS carries Yankees games, apparently pursued Girardi aggressively.
I guess this is the other BIG announcement. Joe lost a friend in Kay. Now watch Kay trash Joe to no end.
Anyone that bashes Pettitte for taking his time like he’s allowed to should have their heads examined.
And Josh Fogg better than Moose?
You have to be joking.
The differences in the Mariano contract story illustrates perfectly why you need to take what is written with a grain of salt. Writers use the angle they want to support the story they want to write. You can find an unnamed source who will tell you anything you want to hear and with Mariano out of the country, all this was coming from unnamed sources.
jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
November 19th, 2007 at 8:53 am
Joe Girardi will be a regular guest on WFAN’s afternoon drive-time show, as was Joe Torre, his predecessor as Yankees manager, two people familiar with the station’s plans said.
An announcement likely will come today.
There had been speculation that Girardi might end up on rival ESPN 1050, whose afternoon host is Michael Kay, with whom Girardi worked at the YES Network. But WFAN, whose sister station WCBS carries Yankees games, apparently pursued Girardi aggressively.
I guess this is the other BIG announcement. Joe lost a friend in Kay. Now watch Kay trash Joe to no end.
Yeah right. I’m sure Kay is so petty that he holds grudges and will now trash his friend and Yankee manager because the upper level suits told him to talk to NY’s highest rated sports radio show.
Do some people think here?
OH look our old friend is back. Has anyone seen him write anything other than trashing other peoples statements. what a jack…
If that is true tough week for Kay in terms of his radio Show MMD also last week announced that Jon Heyman would be a regular on the show. Heyman for along time had a weekly spot on with Kay (even had is own song).
Be glad Andy is taking his time. Cashman said at one point they were giving Andy all the time he wanted because if he laid down the ultimatum, the answer would be “No”.
At this point Andy doesn’t want to come back. Cash is hoping some time might change his mind. I don’t know why time might tell – maybe he has a family situation that could change over the next month or two, maybe he is afraid of showing up in the Mitchell report—- who knows.
But personally, chance of Andy is better than no chance of Andy at this point in time. Cash knows the story and I’m sure he’s not twiddling his thumbs waiting on the answer. You can never have too much pitching.
i don’t know about you guys, but i’d MUCH rather hear girardi with mike and chris rather than michael kay
Isn’t Rivera from Panama? He’s living in the DR though? Interesting.
personally, i think both shows are awful with interviews.
Kay is to cookie cutter with his questions.
MMD can be good about grilling the guest, but then sit there and scream at them, or berate them just for kicks.
“And Josh Fogg better than Moose?
You have to be joking.”
Are YOU joking?
Josh Fogg 4.94, 165.7 IP
Mike Mussina 5.15 ERA, 152 IP
I still love the certainty around here that Mussina “isn’t going anywhere.” Do you guys have it on record that Cash can’t convince to accept a trade somewhere? I don’t get it.
BTW, guy like Livan Hernandez would be a tremendous improvement over Mussina strictly in terms of innings pitched, which is a crucial factor in light of the bullpen usage in Joba-Hughes-IPK games. I’ll take the extra FIFTY innings, thanks:
Livan Hernandez 11-11, 4.93, 204.3 IP
Rivera is from Panama but lives year round in NY now.
Fogg pitched in the NL, Mike in the AL
Mo is from Panama, but he was doing baseball clinics in the DR.
that is a 5.93 era in the al!! I don’t care if he pitched 9 innings everytime out, if he doesn’t give the team a chance to win what good is it.
Fair enough, Jennifer, but the difference still isn’t stark enough to refer to the notion as a “joke.” Especially since Mussina is clearly downward-trending.
Count of Montefusco don’t read anything that jerk says,all he does is critize what other people write. Take what he said with a grain of salt.
andy has probably decided on retirement. announcing this now would only make the yankees look desperate as they look to fill his slot through the trade route. so he has very considerately agreed to “think it over” and “decide” at the new year.
“that is a 5.93 era in the al!! I don’t care if he pitched 9 innings everytime out, if he doesn’t give the team a chance to win what good is it.”
But the Yankees are exceptional in this regard. They will likely outscore every other team in the league next year, meaning runs are not at the same premium.
In order to capitalize on the productivity of the kids’ starts (assuming they go 2-3-4) it will be FAR more crucial to have fresh arms ready for innings 5, 6 and 7 as many as four days a week. Mike Mussina’s avg. 5 2/3 innings work against that.
Has Josh Fogg’s career ever been up-trending?
“Count of Montefusco don’t read anything that jerk says,all he does is critize what other people write. Take what he said with a grain of salt.”
That’s cool. I was just defending Matt upthread.
But you can’t expect them to score 5-6 runs a game. You need to win those 3-2 games.
Come on Mo,we need you,forget about what Hank said concerning your age and the contract offer.Yankees appreciate all you’ve done collectively.
2 down and 2 to go. Andy hello ,New York calling!!!!
So, what you’re saying is…. If Pettitte comes back, that could save Cano and Hughes, keep any such trade from being made.
Please publish that, Andy will heed the call and save the day for the future of the Yankees.
I say give him another 2 year deal, with the player option for the second if he prefers it again over a straight 2 year deal…
And don’t forget, at the first sign of trouble Joe was always pulling the starters, unstead of letting them work thru it.
Remember a game last year (or the year before) Mike was one out away from a complete game. He let a runner get on base and Joe was about to run out there and take him out. Mike yelled at him and that was the only reason he finished the game.
“Has Josh Fogg’s career ever been up-trending?”
Yes.
Generally and incrementally so in six out of seven seasons, allowing for predicted ERA bounce these past two years pitching in Colorado.
Which doesn’t mean I think he’s Cy Young.
You love yourself some grumpy Moose, don’t you TurnTwo?
no, i just refrain from desiring other team’s throw-aways.
“But you can’t expect them to score 5-6 runs a game. You need to win those 3-2 games.”
Jennifer, what you don’t expect is for the score to be 3-2 in ANYONE’s favor when one team is starting its fifth man.
Incidentally, in 2007 the Yankees averaged BETTER than 6 RPG.
Murphydog—
And my husband will probably stick with the Tsing Tso beer.
Well, now, I’m definitely have to go to Tao. I asked my husband if he’d heard of it. He had and he also said he heard it was good. But what clinched it for me was the ingredients in the Tao Tini. Right up my alley!
Back to baseball – if the Yankees themselves told Pettitte to take his time, then I really think it’s not very nice of some people here to get all nasty. If he retires, he retires. I’m sure the Yankees have a Plan B.
Pete—
Jungleland is my absolute all-time favorite Bruce song. Great evocative music and good storytelling. Thunder Road is a close second. I am partial to the first few albums, because they served as my introduction to Springsteen. LIke the new CD a lot, though. Plus, I do have to admit I used to wear out my albums back then. These days I don’t necessarily have a soundtrack for my day!
Or close to it…
6.42 home
5.53 road
“Especially since Mussina is clearly downward-trending.”
Moose had a very good year in 2006. Do you REALLY think his arm aged tremendously in that offseason, accounting for this 4-5mph drop in velocity? Or, do you think that missing half of ST and the first month with a hammy injury prevented him from building arm strength?
He attributed his start in 2006 to throwing his fastball a LOT during ST when it didn’t matter and he wasn’t trying to get outs. That’s how he built arm strength and, thus, velocity. He couldn’t do that in 2007. I think he’ll have something of a bounceback year this year, if he gets a full ST. Not stellar, really, but a solid season. low 4’s ERA, 180 innings.
A couple of things:
Brian Cashman has always said he won’t pay for the same guy twice. Why go for Santana now?
And you all would really create holes all over the rest of team for him, plus throw the youth pitching movement out the window? really? for one guy, no matter how good he may be? that’s crazy. anything more than Kennedy, Melky, and someone in the Horne/Marquez contingent, and we’re better off taking our chances in free agency, if he makes it there. It just smells so much of bad-Steinbrenner-era Yankees, and we know where that gets us.
I’ve always been a Livan supporter. He’s a solid, back-of-the-rotation solidifier no matter where he goes. I’d love to have him fill out this rotation if there winds up being a hole created by Andy.
“Brian Cashman has always said he won’t pay for the same guy twice. Why go for Santana now?”
The only real reason is to make sure that you get him, and not someone else. Yeah, you get an extra year of his services, but the big win is making sure that no one else really gets to bid on him. Which is one reason he very well might refuse to sign an extension ANYWHERE this offseason, making this whole thing a moot point.
Pettitte: I know the Yankees wanted to give him whatever time he needs—but they need to move forward as if he is retiring:
Bruce: Zzzzzzz… If I went to that many Bruce concerts, I would be sleeping much better…
“In order to capitalize on the productivity of the kids’ starts (assuming they go 2-3-4) it will be FAR more crucial to have fresh arms ready for innings 5, 6 and 7 as many as four days a week. Mike Mussina’s avg. 5 2/3 innings work against that.”
i’m confused:
Fogg – 5.64 IP/start in 2007, 5.66 IP/start career
and this is with being able to pitch to the pitcher every 9 batters. every 2-3 innings you have an automatic out. what would that be in the AL?
i don’t see any case for Fogg over Moose if our primary criteria is who pitches deeper into games.
i’m thinking that the Count might be Josh Fogg’s agent. How else could you explain someone seriously making a case to import Josh Fogg into the rotation?
I think generally speaking pitchers in the nl pitch fewer innings a start than the al. Only because they get ph for.
“I think generally speaking pitchers in the nl pitch fewer innings a start than the al. Only because they get ph for.”
this is true.
there is the pinch hitting aspect.
but there is also the ability to pitch around the 8th hitter in the lineup, pitching to the pitcher, and just the overall weakness of the current NL as compared to the AL to consider.
the guy has consistently averaged 5 2/3 IP/start over his career.
i’m not really seeing the argument for Josh Fogg on the Yankees. we are talking about a guy who has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season.
Black Tiger:
Karstens + DeSalvo + Clippard = Hudson???
GET REAL!
3 garbage pitchers does not fetch a stud.
Doreen:
You’ll like Tao. It’s busy and noisy, but the food, drinks and desserts are worth it.
On Bruce: Two years after college I dated a Jersey Girl, a skinny, pretty bottle-blonde. She was a part time actress/full time barmaid and there was no end to the drama. (6 months of bar hopping in NYC dives, Weehawken and LBI, missing work, going to parties with a new set of “cool” friends, making my old friends wonder if I had died or moved). The break up was low comedy, maybe farce. It happened across the street from the Dakota. I had nearly lost a good job and some very good friends. We had just come out of the Park, after a long walk in which I tried to explain that I couldn’t take the chaos anymore. She had me by the collar at one point, but I escaped with my jacket intact, even if my pride wasn’t.
But I’ll never forget the first time I picked her up. I stood on her porch in Weehawken on a late spring night, waiting for her to come out, excited about my date with the “actress.” I looked out across the Hudson at Manhattan, but from the Jersey side everything seemed in a different place. I remember thinking I must have slipped through the looking glass.
Almost 30 years later that moment becomes vivid again in an instant, in this lyric: “The screen door slams, Mary’s dress waves. Like a vision she dances across the porch as the radio plays. Roy Orbison singing for the lonely. Hey, that’s me and I want you only….”
Thanks, Boss.
Joe Torre had been a strong disciple of ” very low pitch counts”. As a consequence he had a very fast hook on starting pitchers, and caused some relief pitchers to blow out that arms as he constantly looked to fill in that extra inning or two. As a consequence, starting pitchers are also not able to develop as much arm strength. The days of Johnny Sain and Warren Spahn are gone, and we’re left with a bunch of wimps.
I think the reason Joe had such a quick hook on starting pitchers was because of the pressure to win everyday and or because of relationship with his pitchers he never was into letting one of them to “take one for the team” so he was not gonna let any of them especially the vets stay in there and get there behinds kicked and be embarrased
Gameface,
Johnny Sain and Warren Spahn saved a lot of strain on their arms pitching to hitters that were not even close to as strong or quick or well-trained as hitters are today. When a modern-day pitcher throws his 95-110 pitches over 6 innings, he more often than not needs every single one of those pitches to be made at full strength and perfectly placed. Most 7-9 hitters in baseball can turn on pitches and hit home runs. That was not always the case.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why most bloggers on this blog are willing to offer a AROD size contract and a personal blow job for Santana??? I admit I don’t know much about him but it seemsa he’s aging and is not a Cy type pitcher. But every othe post is screaming “we need Santata!!!”. Relax people. It’s November, we’ll figure it out. Unless most of the more jackoff posters screaming such knee jerk nonsense are Santana’s PR team…