Austin Jackson impressive in Hawaii
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- November
- 20
Baseball America named Austin Jackson as the No. 2 prospect in the Hawaii Winter Baseball League.
Here is what BA wrote:
After having a breakout season during which he hit .304/.370/.476 across three levels of the minors, Jackson reported to Honolulu and never slowed down. A premium athlete, Jackson finally grew into his tools in 2007. A line-drive hitter with gap power, Jackson’s profile is likely as a No. 2 or No. 3 hitter with the ability to drive in runs. He is an above-average defender in center field, getting good reads and jumps on balls while running quality routes. While he doesn’t always get out of the batter’s box quickly, he’s a graceful runner. “Once he gets underway he’s a plus-plus runner,” an NL scout said. “He’s the best athlete in this league. He doesn’t have that first-step explosion, but this guy is a real crowd pleaser on the bases.”
If you’re interested in checking stats on prospects, including winter ball, try Minor League Baseball.com.
Chad Jennings, who covers the AAA Scranton Yanks, has several informative posts on his blog that give a good look at who the Yankees have.
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on Tuesday, November 20th, 2007 at 9:50 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Do not trade Jackson!
That said – Feinsand reports the Yanks are interested in Linebrink. (3yr $12mil+) – but he’s a type A meaning we’d have to give up the 18th pick… is Linebrink worth our first rounder??
As much as Linebrink is tempting, I’m thinking the Yanks with the way they’ve been drafting in the past few years, that would be the better way to go. Now or the future? Hard to say.
28th pick – sorry – typo.
No Way save that pick for a big pitcher or not at all.
I would encourage anyone who seriously follows the Yankees to read Chad Jennings blog, as recommended by Pete. He’s really on top of what’s going on in the minor league system, answers many of the questions that pop up here.
If the Brewers don’t offer Linebrink arbitration, then you go after him hard.
One of the first times I am unfamiliar with a player. Can anyone give me some info on Linebrink?? I have heard of him, but never heard much about him and have not seen him pitch.
Also- Any specualtion as to when Jackson will hit the majors?? 09′?
I consider him an untouchable along with Hughes and Joba.
Linebrink is no longer that good. Pass.
” is Linebrink worth our first rounder??”
no.
While draft picks are a great thing to have, this isnt the nba or nfl. I highly doubt that cashmoney is worrying about losing a pick to sign a reliever who he feels may be able to sure up the bullpen right now.
I’d have to defer to Cash on this question (since I’m not a scout and I’ve not seen him pitch), but does Linebrink definitively add anything (apart from resume) beyond Ohlendorf, Veras, Britton, Humberto Sanchez, etc?
I think losing a pick is a huge part of the decision process of Cashman, I think most teams will wait to see if a player is offered arbitration unless it’s a major acquisition.
But wasn’t Hughes a first rounder?I’ll give up a first rounder for Santana.But only if the reliver is Jenks.
I also like what the Yankees do as signing “high-risk high ceiling” and “most likley not to sign” players.I believe Joba was a high risk pitcher due to his weight and health record.And there was a short stop out of highschool who was gonna be a first rounder but was determined to go to college so the Yankees offered him a $1 million dollars.Now he is the Staten Island Yankees
“While draft picks are a great thing to have, this isnt the nba or nfl. I highly doubt that cashmoney is worrying about losing a pick to sign a reliever who he feels may be able to sure up the bullpen right now.”
I completely disagree. FA reliever signings never work.
By the way, the last few #1 picks:
2007- Andrew Brackman
2006-Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy
2004- Phil Hughes
Actually, a late first round pick is more likely to yield a very good player in the MLB because good players drop as a result of signability issues.
yeah, not to mention that linebrink just isn’t that good.
Opening Day is …. 1 hour away !
im not saying linebrink is the great savior here, but my point is that if there is a player worth signing, then you cant worry about the picks when you have a hole to fill.
Hey Pete, thanks for the link to Chad Jennings’ very informative website. Cash and David Oppenheimer have done a fantastic job stocking our farm system.
It looks like we have plenty of depth to make a run at Santana.
Possible ‘08 Rotation & Bullpen:
Santana
Pettitte
Wang
Chamberlain
Kennedy
Rivera
Humberto Sanchez
Krazy Kyle
Baseball Prospectus had Austin Jackson as the #1 prospect in the HBL.
You have to weigh the value of the FA against the value of the pick. When it comes to signing a marginal reliever, it’s in a team interests to keep the pick.
In the BA chat, Chris Kline said that Jackson would be the Yankee CF opening day 2009 at the latest. Yankees have been aggressive promoters the past few years so I wouldn’t be surprised if he plays a prominent role this year.
Signing Linebrink is not the way to go. He will cost the Yankees their 1st rounder and is not that great a rhp. His era in the NL in the last few years is around .375 which translates to .480 in the AL and they have many young arms which are as good if not better. A better choice is Mahay, who had a better ERA last year and a lefty who will not cost a draft pick.
Someone mentioned before that Baseball Prospectus ranked Austin Jackson as the top prospect in Hawaii – that’s particularly remarkable because Matt Weiters had a terrific winter ball season there.
Weiters was considered the best college position player prospect (and arguably the best position prospect overall) in this past draft. He fell to number 5 or 6 in the draft because Boras is his agent. He’s a switch hitting catcher with a great stroke.
That BP would consider Jackson a better prospect than a switch hitting catcher of Weiter’s stature really says something.
Give Cashman a lot of credit here. Jackson was committed to going to Georgia Tech to play basketball. Baseball was his second sport. The commitment to basketball made him fall to the 8th round. Cashman took a risk and gave him a then record $800,000 signing bonus for an 8th round pick in order to pry him away from Georgia Tech and basketball.
They took him based purely on athleticism and this past year he made the transition to being a baseball player.
Draft picks matter, especially for the Yankees now. Their commitment to investing in the draft and going over slot makes it very, very likely that they’ll be able to draft a high ceiling talent at least in the first round every year.
They lost Andy Pettite to Houston and turned the pick they got from the Astros into Hughes.
They lost Gordon and turned the first round pick they got into Kennedy and the supplemental pick into Joba.
Think about that – they essentially traded Tom Gordon for Joba and Kennedy.
Action better be at CF in 08′ or 09′
Thanks CB, that really puts a lot into perspective especially since Pettitte can help tutor the trio if he comes back, that may be a huge incentive to hand off the torch of all his experiences to Joba, Hughes, & Kennedy.
I think you have to give Torre some credit too. If he hadn’t run Gordon into the ground, they probably would have re-signed him.
Chad Jennings’ SWB blog is an incredible source of solid and useful information. I first saw it last week when somebody posted a link to it here, and if I knew who it was, I’d want to thank them. Everything that Pete is for us in covering the parent club, Chad seems to be for coverage of the farm system. His site is a must-read for me now.
Meanwhile this is what the Red Sux are up to
http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=9562375593
There is a reason why Kevin Towers got rid of Linebrink. Pass. Sign Troy Percival, Marc Kroon, and Kerry Wood(only if it’s a one year incentive deal).
I can’t wait to see AJax in 2009, hopefully.
I remember reading somewhere a team can only sign three type A free agents so i doubt we would be that interested in linebrink. we have already signed 2 type a’s mo and jorge and the third needs to be pettitte. i also read somewhere that were interested in ron mahay and we definitely need some lefty relief that is not ron villone. with austin jackson proving himself i think this only adds to the trade status for the melkman. while i would love to see him stay we need an ace for the staff and if we could get johan for melky, ipk, and some other pitching prospects i would do it in a second. just save cano, hughes, joba, and tabata.
“Can anyone give me some info on Linebrink?? I have heard of him, but never heard much about him and have not seen him pitch.”
Linebrink was an elite setup guy a few years ago. He fell off in the last two years to being merely solid in the NL. So, that’s worrying. He had a WHIP of 1.5 after his trade to the Brewers. He also started giving up more homers in the last two years…despite pitching a lot of games in PETCO, a severe pitchers park.
Really doesn’t seem worth signing. And draft picks DO matter. Especially given the dearth of position players in the system. The Yanks really need some infielders and catchers, preferably ones that can start in AA.
“we have already signed 2 type a’s mo and jorge and the third needs to be pettitte.”
Your own FAs don’t count. If they did, ARod would be the third and the Yanks wouldn’t be able to sign Pettitte at all.
And this folks is why Melky Cabrera is not untouchable.
I would trade any member of the Yankees’ OF because every one of them are deeply flawed.
Sadly true.
I will pray tonight, tomorrow, and the next day that the Yankees will not go after Rowand/Hunter and increase their surplus of aging OFers.
Whoa,
I hope you’re talking about the old guys (Matsui, Damon, Abreu) when you say “I would trade any member of the Yankees’ OF”.
I do think Yankees will sign an outfielder, just so they can trade a surplus outfielder, like Melky Cabrera in a package for a big time player like Jenks or Santana or Broxton.
The only other one is Melky, who also is flawed in that he isn’t a great defensive CF, although he’s good, and he is inconsistent offensively., I like him, but if he had to be included in a non-Hughes/Joba/Jackson/Cano package for Santana or Cabrera, I would not be opposed to trading him.
I wouldn’t trade Melky for Jenks.
hmmm… Marquez is on the 40 man ? I guessing Wang might get traded
The Yanks have interest in Jenks and Melky would fill one of the White Sox voids.
“hmmm… Marquez is on the 40 man ? I guessing Wang might get traded”
This is sarcasm? I hope? For your sake?
Subtracting Melky would create another void on the Yankees.
I have no interest in acquiring overweight pitchers who lack discipline in their personal lives. That the White Sox would trade him should raise a ginormous red flag.
Whoa–Bobby Jenks hasn’t been in trouble since 2002. There are many pitchers out there who were or are ”overweight” that have successful careers.
whoa,
let’s get Jenks. Then Cashman should send him “To The Biggest Loser”.lol
Melky’s a nice player, but lets get real; he is replaceable.
he provides an average bat, with less than average power, average to slightly above average speed, and slightly above average defense, because his arm strength makes up for awful route he takes to fly balls.
If the White Sox miss out on Hunter and Rowand, and dont want to go down the Andruw Jones route, and they ask for Melky plus a pitching prosect for Jenks, you deal him.
meanwhile, for all those like me holding out hope that Cashman might be able to get something useful in a trade sending out Kyle Fanrsworth, the Mets sent Guillermo Mota to the Brewers for a serviceable, albeit defensively inept catcher, Johnny Estrada.
there is hope.
I think we can trade Farns, but Girardi said he thinks he can get some production out of Farns.
If Brett Gardner were clearly major league ready then Melky could be considered in a deal but chances are Melky will be a special project for Kevin Long this spring.
Turn Two,
People like to talk about getting serviceable players, but when push comes to shove, they’re just as antsy to get rid of them. Think about the players most people here want to trade. All of them are good but not great. Andy Phillips, Wilson Betemit are both serviceable players, but both have their flaws and neither one is looked upon here as an adequate 1B.
Plus, Kyle Farnsworth could also be described as serviceable, too.
For the life of me, I don’t understand why the Mets didn’t just re-sign LoDuca. Can he be worse than Estrada, or was there something else going on with him in Queens?
I never said I wanted to get rid of players like Betemit or Phillips. By serviceable, I can point right to the Andy Phillips’s and Wilson Betemit’s of the world; not quite an everyday player, but used correctly, they can play a role in the overall success of a team over a 162 game season. You’re not paying a lot for them, but you’re also not asking them for a lot; to spell a regular player once and a while to catch them some rest, come in the 8th and sure up the defense.
Kyle Farnsworth was paid and brought in here specifically to be the 8th inning guy, and spell Mariano as closer should he get injured or need a day off, etc. He’s not serviceable; a guy in his position cant be considered serviceable when you dont trust him with a 5 run lead in the 6th inning to come in and get 3 outs without giving up a HR.
Turn Two –
Allow me to correct myself — I wasn’t trying to say that “you” wanted to trade players like Phillips or Betemit – just that many others do, because while what you say is absolutely correct, that these players used in the right way do play a big role in helping a team succeed, there are, unfortunately, too many people who don’t think that role players have a place on the Yankees, except in theory. They continue to argue that 1B has to be an offensive position, in spite of the fact that the offensive production lacking at first is more than compensated for at various other positions.
Your point on Farnsworth not being what he was paid well to do is well-taken.
Shelley Duncan hospitalized and now released. Yankees won’t comment on what he was in for and have asked his family not to comment as well. Get well soon Shelley!!!!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11212007/sports/yankees/yanks_duncan_leaves_hospital_453188.htm
Linebrink would be awful in the American League.
I hope Shelley is okay. We’re going to need him.
YOu have got to be kidding me!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3121663
The Yankees should be extrememly angry at this. Making a joke out of it. We LOST THE GAME BECAUSE OF THIS!!
Get well soon!!
Jennifer,
We lost the game in the 11th inning. Joba might have been shaken but he did not lose the game. The Yankees did due to their inability to score runs.
“unfortunately, too many people who don’t think that role players have a place on the Yankees, except in theory. They continue to argue that 1B has to be an offensive position, in spite of the fact that the offensive production lacking at first is more than compensated for at various other positions.”
This is incredibly aggravating. I’m one of the people who believes in the need to upgrade at 1B – BY GETTING A ROLE PLAYER. Not someone flashy, someone who can play average defense and provide average right-handed offense. Not a big slugger, not a guy with an OBP above .400, but a guy who’ll get on base around .350 and slug around .460.
He needs to be a righty because of the overwhelming left-handedness of the lineup. We need the offense because we can’t count on Posada having another career year and must guard against our aging players’ likely decline. I hope Shelley Duncan is that guy, because Cash seems like he thinks that he is.
Betemit is a role-player that has value. Lefty side of a 1B platoon, backup IF, some lefty pop…sure. I like Betemit. Duncan can play a little corner OF and adequate 1B…if he can keep pitchers from exploiting the holes in his swing, can be a good righty power threat in part time play and off the bench.
Phillips, on the other hand…he’s just not a valuable player. He’s a UT infielder that can’t play SS, he’s a singles hitter that’s not that fast, and he doesn’t take a lot of walks. He doesn’t even hit lefties particularly well.
My worry is that Duncan will turn out to be the career minor leaguer the team thought he was and that we’ll be left with no first baseman that can hit against lefties, because Betemit, Giambi and Phillips all have bad splits against lefties. I’d much rather get a guy who hits lefties hard, holds his own against righties, and can pick all the throws at first. Play him five days a week, Giambi 1-2 days a week and let Betemit be the backup IFer. Hang on to Duncan to see if he can hit his way into more playing time getting spot starts in the OF corners against tough lefties. Let Andy Phillips go.
Jackson is more talented than Tabata IMO.
Ed we would have won the game 1-0.
I think the Yankees can find answers to their bullpen problems from within the org.
Handing out big contracts to middle relievers is generally a bad idea.
“Jackson is more talented than Tabata IMO.”
This is based on…what? Your reading of a few scouting reports? He may be more athletic and faster, but all report indicate that Tabata is the more gifted hitter. If he doesn’t develop the power that everyone expected, Jackson will probably be the better player. But if Tabata DOES develop the power that scouts project, then he will be the better player.
Neither A-Jax or Tabata will be ready until 2010 at the earliest. Both have to see if they can hit AA and AAA pitching first.
Gargoyle –
Correct assessment. Except for lefthanded pitching, the competition in the bullpen will come from within.
“Jackson is more talented than Tabata IMO.â€
This is based on…what? Your reading of a few scouting reports?”
This is a classic, unnecessarily rude comment on this board.
One poster says that in his opinion that Jackson is a better prospect than Tabata and another poster essentially accuses of him being wrong because:
“This is based on…what? Your reading of a few scouting reports?”
What a joke. Of course the person being critical has personally scouted both players extensively and is a professional evaluator of talent, rather than someone going off his own opinion which is based on scouting reports off the internet.
People seriously need to get off their high horses. Everyone here is just a fan.
Well I still think he’s a little more talented than Tabata. And I am not saying Tabata is going to be bad. I just think Jackson has better tools and better work ethic. I didn’t like Tabata being out of shape this past year. They both can it for power but I do think Tabata has a better arm. Really I wouldn’t trade either.
Keith although it was limited Jackson has hit AA pitching. He played for Trenton in the playoffs. He did well. It’s not like he embarrassed himself in the AA playoffs.
If Jenks is so reliable, why do the Sox want to trade him? Maybe because the velocity on his fastball has declined.
Going back to an OF of Damon, Abreu, and Matsui is just to scary from a defensive perspective, and Melky needs to be saved in case he is needed for a Santana trade.
“They continue to argue that 1B has to be an offensive position, in spite of the fact that the offensive production lacking at first is more than compensated for at various other positions.”
i know this wasn’t directed at anyone specifically, but just to clarify previous arguments, i don’t want Betemit playing over Phillips just because i think you “have” to get offense from 1B.
i would want to play Betemit over Phillips b/c i think Betemit CAN play a good 1B. he is an average 3Bman and when he played 1B last year, he made several outstanding plays. i believe one was in Anaheim in a game they wound up losing in extras.
Phillips is 31 in April. he is not young. he is most likely already become the player he will be.
Betemit is still only 26. he has flashed good power at a very young age. he looks capable of playing the position while providing league average offense.
you can’t just take partial seasons and extrapolate, but this is a guy who hit 14 HRs in 240 ABs last year. the year before he hit 18 HRs in 373 ABs.
spotted correctly, i.e. protecting him from tough lefties by playing Duncan, maybe using him every 2 weeks at SS/3B to DH Alex or Jeter, if he got 500 ABs i think he can hit 20-25 HRs.
i think that is all anyone is saying.
“This is incredibly aggravating. I’m one of the people who believes in the need to upgrade at 1B – BY GETTING A ROLE PLAYER. Not someone flashy, someone who can play average defense and provide average right-handed offense. Not a big slugger, not a guy with an OBP above .400, but a guy who’ll get on base around .350 and slug around .460.”
as much as it pains me to say this as a yankee fan, the guy you are looking for is Kevin Millar.
I continue to wonder why the prevailing thought around this blog is that these guys are awful outfielders when in reality it’s simply not true. All three of these guys are above average outfielders in reality and Abreu is the eigth best RF in the game. I know hard to believe but true.
Don’t believe me? Go here -> http://www.baseballmusings.com/
Scroll down until you get to the probability models of range for outfielders, the numbers don’t lie. If anything Melky is the worst of the outfielders. Hard to believe but true.
I dont think the Sox want to trade him. That was made evident in the actual article that was written, that it was a long shot, but the Yankees had inquired about him.
I dont think they would, especially if they land the CF they think they need to put them back into contention. but even so, any player has a price if another team wants him that bad,
“I continue to wonder why the prevailing thought around this blog is that these guys are awful outfielders when in reality it’s simply not true”
people think Abreu is a bad outfielder b/c he shies away from the wall on 7 plays a year and doesn’t “get his uniform dirty” even though all of the advanced metrics find him average to a touch below average.
they think Damon is a poor outfielder b/c he doesn’t have Melky’s arm despite still possessing good range, and they don’t understand that superior range is worth more than a good arm over the course of a season.
Matsui isn’t very good. most metrics seem to agree even if that link thinks he is ok.
No way do I want Millar on this team! He is still connected to the soxs.
Defensive stats seem a little hard to swallow for me. You just use your eyes and you can see that Melky is much better in CF than Johnny – similarly, do the stats take into account the fact that Abreu curls up into a nervous blob near walls, fences, teammates, etc?
The intangible I like about Melky is the positive attitude and energy he brings to the game which I think helps Cano and A-Rod stay sharp. Who knows whether that holds up or what effect a new manager will have on that.
Does anyone know anything or can point me in the right direction for the Dominican league baseball. I have a friend going to the DR and they want to see some games.
ALso if Melky and Cano are playing do you know which team?
not a chance ! and that’s not me being rude Tabata is 19 yrs. old, Jackson soon to be 21 still young but Josse Tabata’s ceiling in hitting is Manny Ramirez to Miguel Cabrera like, w/ a broken wrist all season he was hitting .305 w/ over 50 RBIs, Action this season broke out, but Jose Tabata is still the most talented hitter out of the position players
Don’t believe your lying eyes.
“do the stats take into account the fact that Abreu curls up into a nervous blob near walls, fences, teammates, etc?”
yes. of course they do. why wouldn’t they?
they count how many times this happens and weighs them accordingly.
that way, we actually KNOW how good Abreu actually is instead of someone who simply guesstimates it b/c those are the plays that stick out in your mind b/c you get angry about them.
“No way do I want Millar on this team! He is still connected to the soxs.”
yeah, me neither. but that was basically the guy he was describing.
You can measure anything in the world now but that doesn’t mean that measurement provides meaningful information.
Statistical analysis of defense in baseball is extremely problematic. Many of metrics are ad hoc and contrivances. Manny Ramirez had one of the highest Fielding Percentage of any left fielder in the American League this year. Now I know, people will say Fielding Percentage is meaningless and that you have to look at “advance metrics” etc. Manny’s zone rating was awful. But then Barry Bonds, Adam Dunn and Hideki Matsui had close to the same zone rating.
Is Barry Bonds as good a left fielder as Matsui? Just watch a game – Bonds is awful.
Ultimately defense is, to a much greater degree than offense, a qualitative matter. Statistics can add to one’s understanding of it but they have to be taken with a big grain of salt.
blockquote>I continue to wonder why the prevailing thought around this blog is that these guys are awful outfielders when in reality it’s simply not true.
Actually, it is true. Check out their UZRs.
no not really if a package is considered for Santana or Kazmir or Bedard or Peavy Wang would definitely be in it, MArquez added to the 40 man means the Yanks scouts believe he can pitch in this level under Girardi. Jeffrey Marquez was completely dominant in the AA playoffs lead Trenton w/ Action Jackson to their first EL championship
Peavy, Bedard & Kazmir are not coming to the Yankees via trade. Not going to happen.
Marquez was added to the 40 man roster only because he was eligible for the rule 5 draft.
Given his success and talent he would have definitely been selected by some team very early in the draft and put on their 25 man roster for the year. Teams like Tampa and Pittsburgh would have loved to have a guy like marquez fall to them.
I didn’t say they were but it’s definitely not impossible
CB, good point I forgot he was Rule 5
HEY, if the Red Sox are pursuing Kerry Wood for their 8th inning role (check out today’s mlbrumors.com), why aren’t the Yankees? Do the Yankees know something we don’t? Anyone think Kerry Wood a better option than Vizcaino? I’m not sure. I’d love to hear someone knowledgeable to compare the merits of each.
I’m a big Abreu fan, always have been. I suspect because his personality recalls Bernie’s, albeit without Bernie’s command of English. I’ve always loved his approach at the plate and how little he fears a two-strike count. What fascinated me about him this year was how he had to adjust to AL pitcher’s approach to him around mid-season. Aware of Abreu’s reluctance to swing at the first pitch, pitchers began to throw first-pitch strikes to him in almost every plate appearance. Bobby adjusted by swing more on the first-pitch to prevent pitchers from taking an immediate 0-1 advantage.
As for his defense, if it’s not an asset, necessarily, I don’t consider it a liability either. Abreu is no worse than Sheffield and has a better arm. He’s also struck me as one of the guys who take a while to grow accustomed to his environment. It wouldn’t surprise me if, this year, he starts to track balls near the Stadium’s wall much better than last year.
Kill-Schill(ing), I think the DL awaits Wood again and again
I think Kerry Wood is being looked at upasa setup guy, especially with Giardi having an ?in” with Wood from his time with the Cubs, that would be a strong selling point.
Bedard & Kazmir are not going to be traded to the Yankees simply b/c they are in the same division. You think anyone wants to help the Yankees?
Zone Rating
Melky 2007 CF: 903
Matsui 2007 LF: .823
Damon 2007 CF: .888 (but that fails to account for his terrible arm)
Abreu 2007 RF: .858 (the most wall shy OFer ever)
Do we know the Yankees aren’t pursuing Wood? I read an article early this offseason that noted the Yankees would be at the front of the discussion if he didnt resign with the Cubs because Kerry Wood had a close relationship with Girardi from back during their Cubs days. Thus far, I believe Wood is still negoitating from a position that he wants to go back to starting games instead of working out of the pen, anyway.
Just because nothing is being printed doesnt mean discussions arent being had.
I wish people would stop thinking like that Baltimore and Tampa are rebuilding franchises, it doesn’t matter where they trade thier stud pitching because financially they’re not going to be able to afford them after arbitration. So yes it is possible that Bedard or Kazmir become Yankees, YES IT IS
“So yes it is possible that Bedard or Kazmir become Yankees, YES IT IS”
no, it really isn’t.
that’s not to say those guys won’t be traded. they simply won’t be traded to the yankees.
it’s not going to happen.
you don’t trade your young, stud LHer to your division rival unless you are extracting a king’s ransom.
good to hear, turntwo. Do you remember what news source printed it? I’d love to read it.
His arm problems are a risk, I concede. Is it really true that medical experts attribute all Wood and Prior’s medical problems to their overuse at a young age.
I don’t watch much NL baseball. But I’m reading Buzz Bissenger’s “Three Days in August” and his portrait of Prior and Wood reminded me jut how dominating they both once were. In their early 20’s, those guys had stuff comparable to Joba’s and could throw it for 7+ innings.
Again, just to clarify my position on 1B, I was using Betemit and Phillips as examples. Although I like Phillips, I don’t think of him as being any more than what he’s shown. Hmmm, you are correct in stating that he is no longer “young,” at least not in baseball years. But he does offer good defensive skills, and works hard, and if they Yankees can do no better, they certainly could do worse.
Betemit is certainly intriguing. When he first came over, he was very impressive, but the fall-off was so quick and so deep that you do have to wonder what he could sustain over the course of a season. You also wonder with him was the fall-off due to a decrease in playing time, which would seem to make the idea of him at a platoon on 1B not so good, unless he is the larger percentage player.
My initial point, really, in response to Turn Two, was how there are a lot of people who “say” they wouldn’t mind a lesser-talented player, but when it comes down to it, they really don’t. And I guess in a perfect world, most of us would prefer all position players to be adept both defensively and offensively.
yeah, as much as you think, “hey, if the deal works for both teams, then why wouldnt they?”
it just wont happen. Especially Bedard.
KS- it’d take me a while to try and dig it up, because it was real early this offseason. and right now, i just dont have the time to get the link. i’ll try and get it later if i can find it.
Wood came back last season and was strong and extremely effective. I think Olney today commented about how Wood could ask and get 3yrs/$15 million right now in the market, and considering what JC Romero got, and what Mahay and Linebrink would prob get, I’d rather take my chances with Wood and his poss upside coming back from injury than what we all can reasonably expect by overpaying the other RP on the market.
“You also wonder with him was the fall-off due to a decrease in playing time, which would seem to make the idea of him at a platoon on 1B not so good, unless he is the larger percentage player”
in theory, he would be. he hit right handers well and there are a lot more righties than lefties.
also, Betemit got a grand total of 84 ABs with the yankees.
i wouldn’t make too many judgements until we see him get 400-500 ABs. i think the yankees owe it to themselves to try to find him those ABs and see if he jacks 25 HRs.
Linebrink’s inning totals over the last few seasons makes me nervous. He wasn’t especially effective in Milwaukee after Towers’ traded him and Towers ranks among one of the best GM’s in baseball. I know the Padres couldn’t afford to re-sign Linebrink but I can’t imagine Towers would have traded him mid-season while they were in a pennant race unless he anticipated Linebrink’s regression.
Apparently the Cardinals organization, according to Bissenger’s book, believes that 70+ innings over multiple years usually saps a middle-reliever and renders him ineffective.
Linebrink’s inning totals over the last few seasons makes me nervous. He wasn’t especially effective in Milwaukee after Towers’ traded him and Towers ranks among one of the best GM’s in baseball. I know the Padres couldn’t afford to re-sign Linebrink but I can’t imagine Towers would have traded him mid-season while they were in a pennant race unless he anticipated Linebrink’s regression.
Apparently the Cardinals organization, according to Bissenger’s book, believes that 70+ innings over multiple years usually saps a middle-reliever and renders him ineffective.
“Don’t believe your lying eyes.”
it depends on whose eyes it is and how much experience they’ve had. on the other hand, if someone hasn’t played much( or been around the game in some on field capacity ) and they have an aptitude for numbers, statistical analysis is another way into the game.
the ideal thing to do is use both.
i think matsui is below average,damon a hint above, and abreau slightly above average. melky clearly above average. that’s without looking at any numbers.
until they they put gps devices on each player and in the ball, fielding stat methodologies are often ironically limited by being subjective.
At some point, people have to put away their fan interests when discussing possible trades and look REALISTICALLY at the possibilities.
The Rays hate the Yankees. Hate the fact they train in Tampa, have more fans at Tropicana Field when the Yankees are there, and hate the fact they are in the same division as the Yankees.
Its why they always ask for the moon when they seek to trade with the Yankees and why no deals between the two teams ever take place.
They aren’t trading Scott Kazmir to the Yankees. That is 100% fact. Not rumor, fact.
Its never going to happen.
Eric Bedard? In the last 15 years, the Yankees and Orioles have initiated ONE trade. Jared Wright for Chris Britton last year. How did that work out for the Orioles? They paid Jared Wright 7 million bucks and he didn’t throw a pitch for them.
You honestly think they are going to trade Eric Bedard to the Yankees? Again, its not going to happen.
Just because you want another team’s player doesn’t mean its realistic for it to happen. Examine the history between the Yankees and these teams and you will realize, its fantasy to think these teams are going to trade their best pitcher to the Yankees.
Getting upset at people who point out why these mythical trades can’t occur is a waste of time. There are reasons why they can’t and its easy to see when you look at things outside of the fan prism.
I tend to agree about Kazmir and Bedard but the reason why trades of either or both help the Yankees indirectly is because they dilute the Santana market. At the very least, it will remove the team acquiring Kaz/Bed from the running if not diminish what the Twin can command in return.
I heard a very disturbing report by John Heyman on WFAN yesterday: THE RED SUX, not only will offer the Twins a package for Santana if the TWINS trade him, but also if they offer Buccholz and Soggy stand to be the front-runners. Santana-Beckett would keep me up at night.
Please someone debunk the possibility.
I tend to agree about Kazmir and Bedard but the reason why trades of either or both help the Yankees indirectly is because they dilute the Santana market. At the very least, it will remove the team acquiring Kaz/Bed from the running if not diminish what the Twin can command in return.
I heard a very disturbing report by John Heyman on WFAN yesterday: THE RED SUX, not only will offer the Twins a package for Santana if the TWINS trade him, but also if they offer Buccholz and Soggy, the SUX become the prohibitive favorite to acquire him. Santana-Beckett would keep me up at night.
Please someone debunk the possibility.
if by Soggy, you mean Coco Crisp, then yeah, i think a Crisp/Bucholtz package trumps Melky/Hughes package in and of itself.
but it’ll come down to the 3rd and even 4th player that will be involved, should these two teams go head to head and Santana actually be placed on the market. I think for any discussion of additional pitchers to add onto that package, the Yanks can offer what the Saux cant.
If the Twins want another positional prospect, the Saux have a highly rated IF Jed Lowrie that could be included.
The offense and the defense are fine.Concentrate on the pitching,especially the bullpen.
is there a FA reliever out there that IS worth giving up a draft pick for?
So I read in the POST that Joba is a sure thing to be starting next year. Could that be the reason why they have Marquez on the 40 man roster. I for one was for Joba staying in the pen. But after seeing Beckett dominate in the playoffs like he did. I have had a change of heart.
We need a pitcher who can blow away the competition and strike fear into them. To me that is the Cornhusker.
As I mentioned yesterday, why not try Igawa in the pen. His strikouts are high(lefty). Hopefully Eiland can tweek him a little where he has more control of his pitches.
IMO i would do Jenks for Melky and sign Jones for a year deal till AJAX or Gardner are ready to go.
saucy, IMO the only relievers that might be worthy of giving up a draft pick were, rivera … luckily we didn’t have to, and maybe, just maybe cordero. but that’s a tough call.
marquez was added on the 40 man strictly to be protected by the rule V draft. hes a good pitcher but hes pretty far behind in the depth chart for SP next year.
Sorry meant to say Joba isnt a sure thing to be a starter.
The white sox released Podsednick. How about bringing him in for a 4th outfielder and pinch runner. Matsui share d.h. duties with Giambi, Damon(if not traded) left field. It would be like Boston having Brian Roberts in 04. Thoughts?
Why would you think Crisp/Bucholz trumps Melky/Hughes?
I think people forget how highly regarded Hughes is. You have to look back to the pitcher he was before the hamstring/ankle injury. He was pitching an MLB no hitter while Bucholz was still in AA. Yes, Bucholz has enjoyed success at the MLB level, but, IMO, not enough to leapfrog Hughes in the pecking order.
At the very worst, the packages are equal.
if you pick up Podsenik, IMO you might as well just call up Gardner… same exact skill set.
Bucholtz has several plus pitches that are rated better than Hughes’s, and Crisp to me is a Gold Glover who trumps Melky.
I guess you could rate Melky higher, but only on the fact that he comes at a cheaper price, and can be controlled for a longer period of time.
The reason you dont call up Gardner is because he needs playing time. With Podsednick we dont have our future(gardner)sit the bench and continue to develop in the minors.
There is a sleeper in the FA/RP market that no one has mentioned, but I think he would be really good RH/RP for the Yanks. David Riske posted a 2.45 ERA for KC, so we know what he can do in the American League. And alas, He is a type B agent that would not cost any picks. Riske is minimum Risk!
I know they need a CF, but why would the Twins want Crisp? I would think they want young, good, major league ready prospects. No way I accept that package from the Red Sox if I’m the Twins. Give me Ellsbury,Bucholtz and Lester.
I would take Hughes over Bucholz hands down.
At some point, you need to GET OVER YOURSELF.
You posts aren’t particularly informative.
Hi all,
Happy Thanksgiving to Pete and everyone here!
I wanted to know if anyone else is wondering if maybe A-Rod’s negotiations hit the skids? The evasion of questions and cryptic “I’ll reveal everything when it’s time” statements during his interview the other day coupled with the Angels’ moving OC to the ChiSox has me wondering if he is LA-bound after all?
Hope I am just being paranoid.
Best,
Percy
It is becuase they needed to add other players to their 40 man. That is why Jorge and Mo aren’t officially announced either.
i think it may be the same reason the Mo and Po deals weren’t announced and the same reason 4 guys were added to the 40 man roster yesterday. that being their 40 man roster spots are being used temporarily to protect minor leagers (the 4 added yesterday) from the Rule V draft. i could be wrong though.
Bucholtz has only started 3 ML games. I don’t know how he is better than Hughes. Sure he has a great curve-ball but Hughes curve isn’t exactly Swiss cheese. Some of you are looking too much at his performance after he got hurt where he probably lost some confidence in his stuff.
BTW the Red Sox farm system is little over-rated.
dammit, jennifer beat me to it.
Who gets dropped off the 40 man to make room for Mo, Po, and Alex?
Beam
Bruney
I would guess Clippard could be taken off without any problem?
When are we allowed to move players back to the dl?
but the thing is, i’m guessing a lot of GMs may be looking at the same thing…
saucy
There is nothing funnier than reading the trade proposals from most of these morons. Just moronic.
How about Pavano for Santana while you’re at it???
Eric,
Throw in Morneau and you got a deal.
Are you trying say GM’s aren’t that high on him anymore? That is completely not true. His confidence came back in September where he had a 2.70 era and we all saw him pitch well in October. Other teams would love to have a young pitching prospect such as Hughes.
Jax
November 21st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Bucholtz has only started 3 ML games. I don’t know how he is better than Hughes. Sure he has a great curve-ball but Hughes curve isn’t exactly Swiss cheese. Some of you are looking too much at his performance after he got hurt where he probably lost some confidence in his stuff.
BTW the Red Sox farm system is little over-rated.
It’s so overrated they just won a title. With Ellsbury, Papelbon, Bucholz, Youkliss, Pedroia. Yeah, its so overrated.
Hughes and Bucky are about equal. Bucky has 2 plus pitches in addition to his fastball. Hughes has one. But Melky is much better than Crisp and younger and much cheaper.
Why would Podsednick come here to be the 5th OF? When he can start for half the teams in the game?
I wonder what it would take to get Haren, it sounds like Oakland is close to making some deals involving Haren, Blanton, & Street.
Eric, I said their FARM SYSTEM NOT THEIR MAJOR LEAGUE ROSTER.
Why would the Twins prefer a Bachholz/Crisp package over a Hughes/Melky package. If you consider Hughes and Buchholz to be a wash, it still would make no sense for the Twins to pay $4.75M next year and $5.75M the year after that for Crisp when they can get similar or better production from Melky for 1/10th of that.
As Yankees fans we usuualy dismiss $5m as pocket change, but for a team like the Twins it is a significant amount of money. They can use that money towards a push to re-sign Joe Nathan, or pick up a FA.
Those guys just came from their minor league system, Jax. Unfortunately they have a pretty good system now too. Baseball America has their system in the Top 10. That’s pretty good isn’t it?
These are the only notable within division trades that the yankees have done since 1995, there are a couple more, like trading mariano duncan to the blue jays and the jared wright deal. Judge for yourself:
On July 28th, 1995, the blue jays traded david cone to the yankees
On August 13, 1997, the red soxs traded Mike Stanley to the yankees
On Feb 18th, 1999, the blue jays traded David Cone to the yankees
On July 1st, 2002, the blue jays traded Raul Mondesi to the yankees
This is all assuming that Boston wants to trade Bucholz. It’s not like they have a need for Santana or a starting pitcher. And he would cost 20 mill less a season.
Why would Podsednick come here to be the 5th OF? When he can start for half the teams in the game?
__________________________
Podsednick shouldnt be within 100 miles of a mlb ballpark next year, the guy sucks, plain and simple
I wouldn’t mind having Joe Blanton in pinstripes.
People, Buchholz does NOT have three plus pitches. He has two: his curveball and his change-up. His fastball has good movement and velocity, but bad command. That has been a knock on him through the minors. He loves to pitch backward, and ML hitters will use that to expose him as they see him more.
Hughes also has two plus pitches: his curve and his fastball, and his fastball command was always superior. He also has a developing change. It’s always easier to develop secondary pitches than it is to develop fastball command. Just ask Edwar.
Forget Bedard. The O’s would NEVER trade him to the Yanks. Unless they gutted half their system.
Eric – I think that Jax’s point is precisely that places like BA have the Red Sox in the top 10 when alot of people don’t think that they are THAT good. Not to say they aren’t good, just not top 10 good. Hence being “overrated”.
Plus BA hasn’t posted their system rankings for this year so the top 10 ranking was probably for 2006.(When the system was more loaded than right now.) If you take away MAtsuzaka, Ellsbury, DelCarmen, Buchholz and Gabbard from that list it is obviously going to be thinner.
From Chad Hennings blog (linked above):
“In my mind, you can make a case for Phil Hughes having a brighter future, but among players with less than 50 innings or 130 at-bats in the big leagues, it’s hard to make a case that anyone in the system is a brighter prospect than this guy.”
People forget how highly regarded Hughes is, probably (as others in this thread have said), because he was shaky his first few starts after coming back from 2 different injuries. Those same people must also be forgetting how nasty he was his last couple starts and in the playoffs. His curve was absolutely filthy, as it normally is. Annoys me to no end how many people on here have thrown his name around in trades as if Joba is more “off-limits” than Hughes. At the very least, they are equal.
If you have ever seen Buchholz you would see his fastball is definately major league worthy. Don’t make it seem like he’s throwing it 88 and straight. Because that’s just a lie.
The guy is a legit top of the rotation prospect.
E-Roc – I think the only people that would mind having Blanton in pinstripes are Yankee haters.
Migames-
Cone was traded once to the Yankees in 1995, not twice.
Yeah it’s pretty good actually it’s solid farm system. But I hear too many people whether they’re TV analyst, anti-yankee scouts/people,news paper writers etc…make their farm system out to be great. It’s a solid system NOT great. Their are teams with more highly regarded prospects than they have and their system is put up there with other team systems and they just shouldn’t be.
I love following minor league baseball and I can tell you some people are going over board with how good their farm really is.
Who doesn’t think the Sox’s system is any good???
I think they have proven they are legit. And no one worth their salt has ever called the guys presently in their system overrated besides fans and bloggers.
Jax,
Why do you say the Red Sox farm system is overrated?
Eric – No one is comparing Buchholz to Tyler Clippard, but the Guy has an above average ML fast ball. He lacks the command for it to be plus.
Cone was traded once to the Yankees in 1995, not twice.
_____________________________
yeah, i meant roger clemens on that one…thanks
Eric,
Learn to read what I wrote before replying. There is a difference between a major-league worthy pitch, and a PLUS pitch. He may have an above average pitch, but it’s damn sure not plus. And to answer your question, I have seen all of his games in the majors, and have seen him on more than one occasion in AA. To quote myself:
“His fastball has good movement and velocity, but bad command. That has been a knock on him through the minors.”
If you had watched him for an extended period of time instead of jumping on the bandwagon post no-hitter, you would understand what I am talking about.
Migames-
Who was the GM of the Blue Jays then? Gene Michael?
I assume it was Pat Gillick, can’t believe he would make those deals unless he really hated the Red Sox more than the Yankees.
We don’t need Blanton. We need an ace. Blanton is solid but he’s not a difference maker and that’s what we are missing. His name is Santana.
The Red Sox have guys like Daniel Bard. Alot of scouts would rather talk about his plus stuff and that arm, and how much potential he has than talk about how he couldn’t get that “Plus Stuff” anywhere near the strike zone all season.
Justin MAsterson is another example. The guy’s nickname is “The Master”. He is a good looking propect, but alot of scouts have said he could probably fit in a middle relief role in the bullpen. That’s great to have and he looks to have a solid future their, but again the mainstream media talks about him as if he were the second coming.
Finally Jacoby Ellsbury. The guy has a huge ceiling and has been compared favorably with Johnny Damon with a better arm. That is great praise, but when the “analysts” at ESPN talk about him they call him a Phenom and a future all star. Could he acheive that? Maybe, but they are all to willing to loft that kind of praise prematurely.
Maybe you should watch Bucholz pitch PK before you trash his fastball. Which you obviously have not seen. I get it that you are anti Sox and Mr Yankee but be a little objective and give a little credit where it is due. Bucholz is a legit, top of the staff starter. Don’t take my word for it? How about reading every respected baseball publication. Use that head of yours for once, Pk.
And Mike R. Lacks command??? Says who? Looked really well when he pitched for the Sox. Ask the Orioles.
Anderson – No one said that we need Blanton, but we wouldn’t mind aquiring him if he was available. He would come much cheaper (prospect wise) than Santana. Would you rather give up Melky/Kennedy for Blanton or Hughes/Cano for Santana?
These are examples. They should not be taken as trade proposals that I think would work. It was strictly to point out the differnce in price.
I can see why Yankee fans think Hughes is better but Buchholz is more than his equal. He’s a very good pitcher. Read the scouting reports. He dominated the minors and had a few pretty good pro games this year before getting shut down.
So the new rumor is Blanton and Street or Haren and Street as a package. WOW!! What would it take to land Haren and Street? How would Street look as a setup man to Mo.
Would they have to part with Hughes to get Haren? I know most of you would not trade Hughes for him, but I would pull the trigger to land a top 5 pitcher in the game. As far as Street is concerned, I know he was hurt last year but when healthy, hes good. Thoughts?
Why waste prospects on a #3 starter like Blanton? We have enough #3 starters. You win with aces. Save those chips for the guys that really make a difference. Hughes, Joba, Kennedy should all be able to equal or pass Blantons performance this year and for the next 6.
I agree Jeffrey. I think that Hughes and Buchholz are on par, they both have strengths and weaknesses. I just resent the fact that alot of people have “gievn up” on Hughes and are ready to carve Buchholz’s name on the 2009 Cy Young plaque because he threw a no-hitter.
“Are you trying say GM’s aren’t that high on him anymore?”
i’m a little late here (lunch), but yes, at least compared to how highly they regarded him prior to injury. and i’m not saying all GMs, just some.
Anyone disparaging Bucky the No No Guy hasn’t watched him pitch.
Who’s given up on Hughes???
They are talking about him being the centerpiece of a deal for Johan Santana. That’s pretty big.
Tell me Eric, how many of his starts have you seen in person? I have personally been to 3 of his minor league starts while he was with Portland and Pawtucket. So don’t accuse me of never “having watched him pitch”. One no-hitter doesn’t mean the guy has 5 plus pitches and incredible command and control. It means the guy had ONE good day.
Follow his career through the minors, and read what BA and BP had to say about him. To quote Baseball America:
Now, care to get off the bandwagon and see him for what he is? A pitcher with two good secondary pitches and mediocre fastball command.
I would think the Yankees need an innings eater because of the big three being capped innings possibly and Pettitte might not be back either. I like Santana, but I wouldn’t trade for him though because that would cost Hughes or Horne and a couple of other prospects.
Exhibit A in defense of Hughes being eventually an ace.
Check the stats of great pitchers from when they were 21 yrs old and in their first major season. Clemens, Glavine, Maddux.
You will find Mr Hughes compares very favorably. Which is impressive especially since he basically toughed it out and pitched on one leg all year.
SOS. If Street is traded for he would pretty much have to do anything the Yankees asked him to. He is still three years (I think) away from FA. By that time we could re-sign him to be our closer because Mo would be gone. I don’t know if we’d have enough to land both Haren AND Street. That’s alot of pitching right there.
Name me A level type of prospects they currently have in their system that in comparison rates ahead of the Yankee A level prospects.
After Ellsbury and Bucholtz there’s a huge drop off in their system.
I can’t imagine Street setting up at this point, a team would give more to have him close. In other words, he has way more value to the A’s as trade bait to acquire more talent in return if he goes to a team that needs a closer.
I hate defending the Sox but they got a deep minor league system right now and if they did Ellsbury and Bucholz they could top our Santana offer.
Toby-
Agreed, but I don’t think they would trade Ellsbury at this point.
A deep minor league system means they have depth. All of their good prospects have already been called up. They have no one in the minors right now that is a decent prospect.
Someone brought up Jed Lowrie, who is probably their next best prospect. He just finished posting a .163/.236/.245 line in the AFL. If that’s their best prospect right now (and keep in mind, I said prospect), they would rank nowhere close to the top 15 farm systems.
From everything I’ve read the Twins want Cano and Hughes. To me that trumps anything the Red Sox could offer to the Twins.
For the record there’s no way I would do that trade, but I don’t think there would be a better package than those two if that’s what the Twins got.
We have the players to get both Santana and Kazmir if we wanted.
You have to be kidding me, Jax. You should really read some BA and Prospectus and minor league reports. They are flooded with high level prospects.
Michael Bowden pitcher great stuff
Lars Anderson huge power guy
Justin Masterson ground ball machine
And that’s just three off the top of my head. Sorry to say but the Sox have just as good a system as we do. A lot of value and tradeable parts there.
I don’t think they’d move Ellsbury either but they can.
jennifer, we most certainly have the prospects to get two players like Santana and Kazmir but why would we gut our farm system? Why trade 2 of the 3 young pitchers and 6 grade A prospects?
There is a reason teams are careful trading high level prospects. The value is just too much because you control them for so long and they are so cheap.
I’d be hesitant to trade anyone on the top level for anything less than Santana.
I’m not saying that we should. I am merely pointing out that our farm is stacked, even beyond Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy.
They have said Cano is untouchable. Heyman confirmed it yesterday.
I would rather have Scott Kazmir.
I hate to defend anything about the Sox but I must say judging a prospects status based on what he does in the AFL is pretty silly.
Lowrie probably had 600 at bats this year so I’m sure he was tired.
Now excuse me while I go chew on a bar of soap to get the vomit taste out of my throat.
Kazmir wouldn’t be traded to the Yankees, look up thread for multiple explanations.
Don’t sleep on the Yanks prospects who are coming along slow due to youth or injury. Guys like Betances, Cox, Sanchez, Melancon, and now Brackman the #1 pick out of NC State
These guys are all Grade A prospects especially Betances.
Kazmir over Santana, no way!
Not only do I read BA and BP I actually watch the games.
Do you realize those writers that supposedly “watch games” are very bias. Especially Jim Callis. Those guys love to prop up Sox prospects and down play how good some Yankee prospects are.
Didn’t I tell you they have a solid system? I said they don’t have great system and it’s certainly not deep like someone else mentioned.
I wouldn’t mind trading Kennedy or Hughes for Santana (obviously) because we have the depth now to replace them. People keep forgetting but Horne is on that level too. Just a little behind them.
The Yankees don’t have the players to get both Santana and Kazmir. Not unless they want to trade away Cano and Wang along with all their pitching prospects and that wouldn’t be prudent.
Boston and the Yankees basically have the same package for Santana. The Red Sox can offer Buchholz and Crisp. Ellsbury isn’t getting traded. The Yankees can offer Melky and Hughes. If the Twins like Austin Jackson better than Melky, you can switch those guys. I think the Yankees want to keep Jackson because he is a RH hitter and RH hitters are few and far between (with his ability) in the game today.
The Yankees package is probably a little better because Melky has more upside and is cheaper, than Crisp. That tips that deal in the Yankees favor.
However, the Red Sox can improve their offer with a guy like Ned Lowrie, who is a very good middle infield prospect. Important for the Twins because their middle infield propsects and current ML players aren’t very good.
The Twins are in a great spot. They can play off the Yankees and Red Sox and see which team offers the largest package.
If Billy Beane decides to rebuild and puts Haren and Street on the market, the loser of the Santana Sweepstakes may go to the head of the class for those guys.
Its amazing to see an off-season where its not inconcievable to see guys like Dan Haren, Miguel Cabrera and Johan Santana traded.
Been a long time since we have seen names like this on the move.
I could see the Mets overpaying to get Santana.
Okay Eric, since you seem to be determined to argue this point, let’s go through their prospects:
Michael Bowden pitcher great stuff:
Are we talking about the same guy that put up a 4.28 ERA this year in AA with a 1.43 WHIP?
Lars Anderson huge power guy
How about we let some prospects get past low A ball before talking about how awesome they are?
Justin Masterson ground ball machine
A 4.34 ERA in AA at the age of 22? Let’s compare that to Jeff Marquez, who isn’t even in our top 3 pitching prospects still in the minors who put up a 3.65 ERA at the same age this year.
I’m backing up my arguments with facts, Eric. I don’t see you doing the same.
Crisp? You could see him in the deal for Santana? I don’t know about that.
The Yankees also have a ton of talent right now at the Single A level. I know that is pretty much fools gold to count on 18 yr olds but if you have enough talent there some players will break through. Strength in numbers approach. It beats having nothing in your system like we had from 98-2004. It’s amazing we have made the playoffs the past 3 years because that was supposed to be our rebuilding phase.
The problem with some of the publications is they are run by Red Sox shills such as Jim Callis.
Alan Horne is a classic example of Callis’ Red Sox bias. There is not a scout I have talked to that thinks Justin Masterson is a better prospect than Alan Horne.
Yet, Callis talks of Masterson as if he is some super stud prospect. He is not. He got shelled in the EL Playoffs this year and completely lost his composure on the mound. I was at his start and needless to say, scouts were not impressed.
There are some scouts in the game who believe Horne is as good a prospect as Hughes or Kennedy. In fact, if he was 21, and with the Red Sox, folks like Jim Callis would froth over him. Horne is a victim in the BA and BP world of being 24 years old. To me, age is meaningless. If a guy is a good prospect, he is a good prospect, regardless of age.
In fact, Horne is really 22, from a baseball perspective, because he lost 2 years in his collegiate career because of injuries.
One of the reasons why the Yankees can even think about trading Phil Hughes in a Santana or Haren deal is because of Alan Horne.
Its one of the benefits of the current state of the Yankees farm system. They have a lot of pitching depth throughout the system. That makes them viable trade partners for the right deal.
Jennifer,
The Twins like Crisp.
Crisp is definitely on the market and would be included in a Santana offer. Ellsbury is their CF next year and that makes Crisp expendable.
No way do the Red Sox want him to be a bench player at his salary.
He won’t be with the Sox next season. Its just where he lands at this point.
SJ-
So if Melky were traded for Santana or Haren, who play CF for the Yanks? Damon? Rowand & Hunter could be off the market shortly, or do they go the Cameron route (1-2 years) as an easy fix until Gardner/ A Jax is ready?
Jax,
Are you serious? You are going to come up with stats to argue minor league players? These A level prospects who are young for their levels?
I said they were A level prospects with major talent. I didn’t say they were productive minor leaguers with ut of this world stats. They are legit prospects. Kind of like a Delin Betances. You wouldn’t get much out of his stats but his stuff and physical ability???
That is what makes a prospect. Tools. Ability. Do you not comprehend that or is it above you?
SJ-
Gotta ask, & I understand if you decline not to comment, are you a professional scout?
There is a reason the CF’s haven’t signed yet. Why sign if you think the Yanks may get involved at some point? Especially if they move Melky. You think the agents for Rowand, Jones, Hunter don’t know this?
Its refreshing to hear that we have strong enough minor league prospects to make a run at any big name out there. Unlike 3 or 4 years ago where all we heard is Yankees dont have anyone in the farm to get the deal done.
Thank you Cashman and whoever else is responsible for drafting these studs.
PK – My hat’s off to you sir…or madam. Thank you for bringing the meat to the argument and effectively ending it.
I wouldn’t trade for Santana. JMO.
Guys like Beane are smart. He realizes he can’t win with the team he has and he realizes it is a sellers market. So he stripes his team and gets 3 solid prospects for guys he wouldn’t be able to keep anyway. He reloads. The key is not striking out when dealing for prospects. Which is entirely possible.
Why do they like Crisp?
Age is not meaningless on a prospect. There is a big difference between a 19 yr old and a 25 yr old prospect. Worlds of difference. Hence, why every Latin player trieds being 3 yrs younger.
Which would you take if you’re the Twins:
Bucholtz,Lester,Ellsbury Bucholtz,Crip Bucholtz,Lowrie,Ellsbury, Bucholtz,Crip,Lowrie
Hughes,Kennedy,Melky Hughes,Horne,Tabata Kennedy,Horne,Melky,Tabata Horne,Tabata,Hughes Kennedy,Melky,Horne,
Personally I think the Yankees have more enticing packages.
Teams like Crisp because he is signed cheap. under 5 mill for a solid CF. And if you can get him to hit like he did in 2005 it pays even more.
Eric – Are you serious? Your argument is that the Red Sox guys have “tools” and that makes their system “deep” and “great”? Tools are fine when you’re 19 but at 22, 23 and 24 you need to put up numbers.
Call me crazy but if the Yankees were to trade Melky away I’d like to see them offer a 4 year deal to Andruw Jones. There’s no way Andruw will be worse than he was this year and he’s still only 30 and is still a much better defender than Hunter or Rowand, he’s right handed and he has power.
If I’m the Twins I’m taking Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Lester.
If they don’t make Ellsbury available, which they probably won’t, than I make the Yanks trade because Crisp is not Melky. Crisp is what he is. A 4th OF’er.
Mike R,
What do you think prospects get graded on?????
Not minor league stats!!!
Jesus. They get graded on ability, tools, potential, upside, stuff
No prospect gets rated based on how many wins he has in double A.
Wake up already and learn something.
Roger – “Under $5M” is a little bit deceiving. He is due $4.75M next year and $5.75M the year after that. Plus an $8M option or $500K buyout. The real cost is between $6M and $7M per year.
Boras will make sure Jones is the last free agent left and he’ll wait. There is a reason he is the best in the game.
TJ–Horne doesn’t have the normal wear and tear of a 24 year old prospect. He’s come all the way back from two TJ surgeries so his pitching arm is as strong as anybody. The only problem with Horne is command. He has 3 plus pitches with another one reaching that level. Horne will be fine.
into thin air, SJ the phantom has wandered off….
Eric,
First of all, the point we are arguing is whether or not the Red Sox have a DEEP farm system. A deep farm system means they have productive players with good projection at the higher levels (AA, AAA). When you are referring to them in a trading capacity, clubs rarely have players below AA as centerpieces for trades.
If you want to look at depth in the Yankee farmsystem, let’s look at pitching: Alan Horne, Dan McCutchen, Steven White and Jeff Marquez in AAA, not to mention Humberto Sanchez, and Mark Melancon probably in AA. Name a few pitchers in the Red Sox system (in the high minors, not in short season or A ball) that could compete. How about position prospects with Francisco Cervelli, A-Jax and Tabata in AA?
If you want to talk low minors for the yankees, Carmen Angelini and Austin Romine will likely be starting the season in low A. Jario Heredia, Ivan Nova, David Robertson – all excellent prospects.
We’re talking depth here, Eric. And our depth blows the Red Sox out of the water. It’s not even close.
Why are people writing off the Dodgers on Santana? LaRoche-Kemp-Kershaw is a MUCH better package than anything the Sox or Yanks can do.
Eric:
Prospects get rated on both tools and stats. Stats like wins aren’t too important, but K’s/BB, K/9, WHIP are ALL important. If your going to argue use facts! Not multiple question marks or exclamation points. Show me one successful player in MLB that didn’t put up good numbers at any level in the minors and I’ll shut up, but in the mean time keep reading Baseball America because your sense of prospect evaluation is warped.
Eric have you backed up with what you are saying about how great the SAWX system is? I’ll answer that…..NO! I said I watch the games and any one that reads BASEBALL AMERICA knows those writers are BIAS. You obviously don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Why don’t you go do your homework before get on a blog and start talking about what you don’t know about.
You sound more like a SAWX fan protecting their OVER-RATED system.
Pk,
Here is the argument and it’ll end after this. The Sox have high level Grade A prospects. Same as us. You may not like them but it doesn’t really matter. You can find things to nitpick the Yanks prospects too.
Both systems are running at a high level. Which is bad news for the rest of baseball.
Eric,
The more you post, the more I’m convinced that you know nothing about rating minor league players. Tools are what players are drafted on. Once they start pro-ball, they don’t get promoted for their tools, they get promoted for their results.
C.J. Henry had all the tools in the world for us, but didn’t produce results. He was traded to the Phillies, and is probably going to go play basketball.
To give you another example, Dennis Dixon (Oregon’s QB) had all the tools in the world when he was drafted by Atlanta. He put up horrible numbers in their minor league system, and now he’s back to playing football (not that that’s a bad thing).
Whether you agree or not, after a certain point, prospects are graded on their results, not their “tools”.
Bloomy – I agree with you that the Dodgers could put together the best package for Santana, but I think there is uncertainty as to their willingness to sign him to a 6 year $120M contract.
So, basically, Jax you’re defense of why the Sox system is overrated is that the writers from baseball America and every other publication are biased in the Sox favor??
Hmmmmm. Interesting.
Okay, I guess. If that is what you believe it is obviously worthless even talking to you about it.
Eric,
I completely agree with this:
“The Sox have high level Grade A prospects. Same as us.”
Here’s the difference though. We also have high level prospects in AA and AAA ball, whereas the Sox don’t. Perhaps in 2 years they will have good players in their high minors. As of right now, they do not. That is the difference between a deep farmsystem and one that has the potential to be deep in the future.
Pk,
Tools is what they grade them on. Are you a moron? Go read a rankings list. They don’t list them based on stats. They list them based on tools and pro potential. When a prospect combines stuff and talent with production that is why there is such buzz about said prospect. Ie Joba, Bucky
It hurts my head dealing with morons.
Pk,
Name the high level position player prospects in the Yankee system.
And if you say Eric Duncan you can kill yourself.
If there is one guy to pay 20 mill a yr to it’s Johan. I still think he lands in pinstripes in mid December.
eric has officially been powned
The Yankees lack the big time offensive talent in their upper levels right now. I don’t think we can say Bret Gardner is a high level prospect. Tabata is not at that high level yet.
Eric – Austin Jackson wasn’t even in the top 10 Yankee prospects last year. This year he is top 5. Why do you think that is? Because he developed “more tools”? NO It’s because he is starting to grow into those tools. How do we know that? Beacause he put up numbers. NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!
Eric,
As someone said just now, name one major league player that wasn’t able to produce RESULTS. Tools are only as good as the results they produce.
Not a single Sox prospect you mentioned above has shown numbers in their production to qualify them as a “top prospect”.
Feel free to continue arguing this point with me. I’ve given you multiple facts about why the Sox do not have a deep farmsystem. You have responded with “no moron i am right”.
Like I said, the more you talk, the more you are exposed.
Happy Thanksgiving!
I don’t see the Yankees getting involved with Andruw Jones. Scott Boras is looking for a big deal (especially in the wake of the Arod fiasco) and I don’t see the Yankees looking to help Boras. Jones’ body is also beginning to break down. He plays older than his age, and he has some off-field habits the Yankees probably want to shy away from at this time.
The CF dominoes begin with Torii Hunter. Once he signs, the market gets set for Aaron Rowand and (even though Boras would disagree) Jones and Mike Cameron. Cameron missing the first 25 games of next season certainly isn’t helping him in getting good offers right now.
The way Jackson is developing tells me the Yankees would probably put Damon back in CF if Melky is traded and look for Jackson to be the starting CF in 2009. He is really coming on and probably could play in the majors now as a defensive replacement. His offense isn’t there yet. He needs at least 300 more minor league AB’s before you can insert him into the lineup as an everyday player.
Trading Melky probably would put Gardner on the roster as a backup OF.
The Yankees have options. Its pretty clear they aren’t parting with any of their top prospects unless its for somebody like Santana and perhaps Haren.
Buddy, I am not scout. I know plenty of them, some of them are friends of mine, and come across some info from time to time.
There comes a time for results. In the minor leagues when you are young you are rated on tools and your projections. Eventually if you don’t have it or put it together you lose that high rating. But a system is ranked based on how many major league type prospects they presumably have. And that is based on tools. That is not based on minor league stats. Which no GM gives any weight to. Listen to Cashman on that one. He wants development. He doesn’t care about wins and losses. That says to me that it isn’t about results.
I would be in on Andruw if we could get him to sign a 1 year “Show me what you’ve got” deal. I wouldn’t mind paying him $20M for one year, but not more than that. At least not for now.
Eric,
My pleasure. By “high level”, I assume you mean starting in AA or above next year.
Here goes:
CF: Austin Jackson (you all know about him)
RF: Jose Tabata (tremendous hitter who is a surefire BA 100 pick)
1B: Juan Miranda (who tore up the AFL this year)
OF: Brett Gardner (ditto)
3B: Marcos Vechionacci (excellent glove, tearing up the VWL right now)
C: Francisco Cervelli (superior defensive catcher, solid bat. could be a backup for Posada right now)
Now, since I complied with your request, could you name the good position prospects in the high minors for the Sox?
I don’t see the Yanks moving Melky for anything other than Santana.
Eric hopefully you are a 13 year old boy because you certainly sound like one. Or either a SAWX fan. One of these two things would explain the stupidity that is coming out of your brain.
I have never heard no Yankee fan defend Red SAAAAWWWWWX nation in this case that’s right OVER-RATED farm system the way you have.lol
SJ,
Who would be a good comp for Austin Jackson in the majors right now? I’ve always thought Hunter or V. Wells, but he seems to have more similarities to Mike Cameron.
Thoughts?
Also, have you heard much about Angelini? From what I hear, he is really impressing people in Dominican instructs.
Why are ya’ll picking on Eric?? It’s a slaughter, lol. Poor guy. I feel bad because he’s getting OWNED left and right, even though it’s hilarious to read!
PK – In anticipation to Eric’s answer, I will predict what he will say.
“Brett Gardner sucks! Tabata is hurt! Those guy don’t have tools. The Red Sox have a whole bunch of players at a high level.”
The only guy you listed that anyone says is high level is Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata.
Cervilli is a C+ prospect. Gardner C+. miranda is getting old.
Please don’t use the defense of “he tore up the AFL”
Unless it’s a joke.
I don’t know the guidelines for the Rule V draft, but is there a chance a guy like Austin Jackson (not on the 40-man) could be lost there?
Seems insane to be required to have a guy like Pavano on the 40-man and thus protected just because he’s on the 900-day DL (not much of an exaggeration) thus leaving many good prospects vulnerable.
I’m sure I’m missing something … like I said I just don’t know the guidelines.
I didn’t see your Red Sox list in that post Eric.
I love the superfans here who are comparing Austin jackson to Vernon Wells and saying the Yanks farm system is gold. Give me a break.
I realize the Yankee fan can’t take the cold water reality but the system is not as good as the Sox system. You can spin it any way you want and discredit every source that says it for whatever reason you want to imagine. But that’s the facts. If that’s “owned” then you got me.
Eric,
I think we’re done here.
Feel free to start this up again once you’ve learned a little about farm systems, know the names of prospects other than Buchholz and Hughes.
oh snap … according to buster olny ….
“Rival general managers say that in recent days, Minnesota’s Bill Smith is quietly gauging the market for left-hander Johan Santana, determining what deals he might have, in the aftermath of the report that Santana turned down a five-year, $93 million offer from the Twins.”
let the bidding war begin !
Can we wait a little while before we annoint Cervilli the next Posada yet? Thanks.
Ranting Guy,
Austin Jackson will not be exposed to the Rule V draft. I think this year’s Rule V will target college players from the 2003 draft and high school players from the 2004 draft.
Pk,
When you finish an actual article of BA without thinking all the writers hate the Yanks I’ll take what you say seriously.
But seriously, list all those C+ Yank prospects again and think they are A level. You are the type of fan who gives Yank fans a bad name.
I can’t wait for this first rube to start the jackson-cervilli-gardner for santana rumors!
I wonder who can come up with the first terrible Santana offer.
What’s wrong with comparing him to V.Wells? No one is saying he’s going to be Wells where talking about what his upside could be. Geesh!
Wow, I think Santana is planning on being the first pitcher with a 20mm+ contract.
Once Giambi is off the payroll, I don’t think the money will be a problem, but I wonder how many years he is looking for. I can’t see a pitcher (even Santana) being worth 20mm+ after the age of 35.
Ranting guy,
Jackson is not eligible for the Rule 5 draft.Check Wikipedia for Rule 5 Draft.
Eric go back under the rock in which you crawled out under.
“I can’t wait for this first rube to start the jackson-cervilli-gardner for santana rumors!
I wonder who can come up with the first terrible Santana offer.”
You just did!!! LOL!
The Yanks have produced a grand total of 2 competent position players in 12 years.
Let’s not start raving about how great the farm is. Show some restraint.
Austin Jackson is a RH hitting Curtis Granderson. Plays the same type of game.
He has some pop. But, he uses his athleticsm, as does Granderson, to get his results.
Here’s one example which shows why using stats as a way to evaluate prospect is fools gold.
Jackson started the year in Charleston in the SAL. He was hitting around .265 and playing ok, not great. On the face of it, you could have argued the kid was really struggling.
The Yankees held a meeting to discuss prospects and one member of the organization suggested they promote Jackson to Tampa.
His stats would lead one not to do so. However, this member of the organization felt he needed to be challenged more and playing in a better league, with better pitching, may get him going.
They promoted him, he took off and the rest is history.
There is more that goes into evaluating a player than just stats. Joba got promoted after his worst start of the year this season.
A lot of times, players are working on certain things in different games. That often leads to “bad” stats.
Late in the year, Alan Horne was told to throw more changeups so he could refine the pitch. His control and pitch counts got out of whack late in the year but, it didn’t diminish him as a prospect.
Every team does it differently. The Yankees are all about development. That’s the most important thing to them.
Billy Masse got fired as manager of Trenton after the ‘06 season because the organization felt he was more concerned about winning than developing players and he often went too far in that regard. Whether he did or not is up for debate.
The point is, if the Yankees feel you aren’t developing prospects, you won’t be keeping your job. Regardless of your won-loss record.
Jax,
Get a clue and come back to us. Your parents let you out of that basement?
I’m guilty!
Maybe we can get Santana for Farnsworth and Cervilli????
Eric: Where is your Sox prospect list? What’s wrong? Can’t google it fast enough?
Anyone that uses stats to evaluate young prospects is a moron.
There. That basically somes up my point Jax and Pk.
I could live with a Curtis Granderson type manning CF for the Yankees.
Mike R,
I listed four grade A Sox prospects about an hour ago.
Follow along there, Cheese. And keep up.
LMAO………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………NOT!
On a different topic: Anybody know anything substantive about Shelley Duncan’s health problems regarding his arm? Reports indicate he was hospitalized in Arizona for two days or more for a circulatory problem, maybe a clot in his arm,and that his family isn’t talking and NYY is trying to sit on the news.
Anybody have more facts? Has he had problems like this before? Anybody know the general picture on how serious a problem of blood clotting in the arm may turn out to be?
You may disagree with Eric because he is a jerk but he has a point. You can’t evaluate prospects on minor league stats.
In Jax’s world he would cut Dellin Betances because he didn’t have enough wins this year.
It is not the job of a minor league system to win. It is the job of a system to develop major league players. I hope the Yanks system is as good as everyone says.
I’m not even in the debate stats on a prospect vs. tools. All I said was the Sox system is not as great as some make sound, and after Ellsbury and Bucholtz there is a huge drop off.
You mean no longer have to include Pavano in the trade.YES!!! What a steal.
As far as Jones, I keep hearing that they will look for a 1 year deal to make up for his sub par 07 year. If true, I would make a run at him to bridge the gap in getting Jackson and Gardner in the bigs for 09.
Meat Hook :
The Twins don’t need Cervelli, they have Joe Mauer. Cervelli is projected to be Jorge’s replacement. No deal. Hang up the phone.
Jackson is exactly the type of tools prospect that everyone is bashing. They drafted him based on ability. He was a top flight basketball player out of high school. Sometimes you win with a guy like that. Sometimes you lose (ie Henry) But it is always better to take a shot on talent and upside.
How about Eric Duncan for Santana? He was our best prospect 3 yrs ago!
LOL
On a serious note. I think we’re getting Santana. Get feeling.
Jax:
You’re not a scout. You’re not a minor league expert. And you think all writers for the best mag around are anti-Yankee. How would you know the Sox system is overrated?
I told myself I wouldn’t get back into this, but I feel I need to respond here.
No one is claiming that stats are the only way to judge minor league prospects. That Austin Jackson was promoted after hitting .265 in Low A is the exception, not the rule.
Prospects get promoted for showing results. For every Austin Jackson you show me, I can show you 5 normal players that are promoted for showing good stats in their current league.
While no one is arguing that tools aren’t important, at some point, these tools have to show up in results. I can tell you this: no prospect has ever made it to the major leagues based on tools alone. At some point, they showed good numbers in the minors to warrant the promotion.
So in summation, I certainly agree that tools are one part of evaluating a prospect. But while stats aren’t the end-all, be-all in evaluating prospects, they are certainly a large component. No one makes it to the majors on tools alone.
As for Eric, I think it’s clear he is overmatched, and not capable of making any sensible argument backed up with facts. Arguing that Lars Anderson is a grade A prospect, while Gardner is a “C+” shows the level of his knowledge. It’s really a waste of my time to continue arguing with him when he obviously has nothing of value to contribute to the discussion.
Melky and prospect for Garza?
Isnt Garza their Hughes? I would think more like Cano and Melky.
Oh, and as long as we’re on the topic of Sox Prospects, anyone with even a basic level of knowledge of their system would know that Chris Carter, who they recently added to their system via trade, is a much better 1B prospect, putting up a .904 OPS at the AAA level.
Eric, as someone with knowledge of the Sox system, I would imagine you would know his name.
so I know many disagree and seem to want Santana but for some reason I dont feel (as good as he is) that its a good move. I mean dont get me wrong Santana is the man, but im almost getting sick of seeing our team filled in by superstars that seem to cost so much money and we still havent made it back to the WS in 7 years.
It’s called an OPINION.
I don’t think the Twins would ever part with their pitching prospects. As important as cost-controlled pitching is to the Yankees, it is about 5x more important to the Twins, who have a much smaller payroll to work with.
They stay competitive by finding and developing good pitchers such as Santana, Liriano, and now Garza/Slowey.
See and thats what i would love to see us do with Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy instead of trading for the now why not work for the then.
Santana is going to want, at minimum, a 6-7 year deal at $20million on top of the $14 million he’s getting this year.
So trading for him you’d have him from ages 29 to 37 and pay him around $150 million.
Over that same period of time you’d have Hughes from the age of 21 to 29 and have him under control making very little for most of that time.
On top of the money you’d be trading Hughes and some kind of package that would be something like Jackson and Tabata and one other very good prospect.
Now I don’t even know if the yankees have the position players to get him. The Twins don’t seem to be very interested in young pitching. But if the yankees were to get Santana it’ll cost them perhaps Hughes and all three of their top position players.
I don’t see the value proposition here. Take you’re chance with the 2009 free agent class. One of Santana, Sabbathia or Bedard will make it to the market.
Boras said the other day that he is not looking for a one year deal for Jones.
Rumor is, the Royals have offered him a multi-year deal.
Time will tell if Boras is bluffing.
I think he would have taken a one year deal to remain in Atlanta. When that possibility vanished, I think Jones will end up getting a multi-year deal somewhere on the open market.
Anyone know the story behind our 1st round draft pick from 2007?
I want to stand pat. I don’t want Santana or Haren given the likely cost, and I don’t want Jenks at almost any cost.
They Yankees have a ton of live arms to fill out both the pen and the rotation.
Cashman’s greatest strength is drafting anyway. His trades, unless money is involved, have been underwhelming, and his free agent signings have been mostly awful.
Boston was in a slightly better position before they made the mistake of trading for Gagne. They traded Gabbard, Murphy, and a supposed 5-tool prospect named Beltre that could have been used in a Santana deal.
Should they happen to deal Lester, Buchholtz, and even Crisp, they find themselves (possibly) pitching loaded in ‘08 but then a sudden dropoff after that when Schilling and Wakefield are gone and nobody to replace them. It would be short term thinking on their part.
So thats where our luxury tax is going. K.C. reaping our benifits.
If he’s looking for a multi year deal,than the answer iS no thanks. I just cant believe they would go with the often injured Damon in center. He seemed to do better in left.
Whats plan b if Melky is dealt and Damon stays in left?
chosen. just google andrew brackman, you’ll find plenty. in a nutshell, hes coming off TJ surgery so he won’t pitch much if at all next year, he has a fastball in the mid to high 90’s and a devastating knuckle curve. he could be something special.
Andrew Brackman is a ptoential #1 starter with plus plus stuff. He fel in the draft due to health, Boras and being a two sport star at NC State. He had Tommy John surgery shrtly after signing and isn’t expected to pitch until 2009.
Well from the sounds i really hope we hang on to Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy. I mean could you imagian those 3 with Wang and Brackman. Wow would that be so much fun to watch talk about a (hopefully) great 5 man rotation. And the way Karstans looks lately and in my opinion when he pitched for us we could make it a amazing 6 man.
DHC: That’s the first I heard of that, but I’m certainly curious…
“as much as it pains me to say this as a yankee fan, the guy you are looking for is Kevin Millar.”
hmmmm
yes, I know. Why would that pain people? Do you REALLY associate Millar with the 04 Sox more than Damon? Besides, Millar isn’t really available. I just think that a guy _like_ that would be the best fit for the team’s needs.
As for the Jackson/Tabata fight…scouts all agree that Tabata is the more skilled hitter. Jackson is faster, and it looks like he’s putting it together right now. If he hits well at AA early this season, he’ll get to AAA. If he hits well there, he could be in NY in 09.
But that doesn’t mean he’s more talented than Tabata. He’s faster and is a more mature player at this time. Scouts still all rate Tabata as the better prospect.
And who said they were upset by Tabata being out of shape? When was he out of shape? He had a nagging wrist injury.
“This is a classic, unnecessarily rude comment on this board.”
Frankly, given that other posters in this very thread later resorted to personal attacks, I think my comment was pretty benign. The person stated an opinion that is directly contrary to the majority of available scouting reports. When you make a statement like that and don’t back it up…why shouldn’t you be called out for it? They didn’t say “I think he’s a better player,” they said they think Jackson is more talented…which no scout believes to be true. Better athlete? Maybe. Faster? Yes. But Tabata is universally considered to be a more talented hitter. You think otherwise? Ok. Why?
I didn’t call anyone a name, I didn’t impugn anyone’s intelligence. I was sarcastic, sure, but so what?
SJ-
Thanks, I appreciate your response when you didn’t have to.
I think Brackman has a lot of boom/bust potential. It often takes a pitcher that is as tall as he is a long time to be able to consistently repeat their mechanics, and he didn’t pitch much in college. Couple that with the TJ surgery, and the chances that he will be a #1 starter aren’t overwhelming. If, however, he does put it together, he will be awesome.
“It’s called an OPINION.”
This is one of the great fallacies of the self-esteem movement. Opinions can, in fact, be wrong. Opinions based on a mis-reading of evidence, or flawed logic, or incomplete evidence may all be objectively incorrect.
I have no idea what the two of you were talking about, so this doesn’t necessarily have any relevance to the conversation at hand. But that doesn’t make it any less true in the general case.
“I think Brackman has a lot of boom/bust potential.”
Then it’s good they also have Dellin Betances, a similarly tall guy they took out of high school that has dynamite raw stuff. Still several years away, but he also has #1 potential.
Whozat – You should be ashamed of yourself! You are sooo rude saying thingd that are contrary to what someone else says. Next thing you know everyone will ant to express themelves freely. It would be Anarchy. CHAOS I TELL YOU. Stop it! Stop it right now!
Does the Twins Front-Office really assign greater value to Buchholz than Hughes? Could last year have altered everyone’s opinion that Phil Hughes, apart from Homer Bailey, was the top pitching prospect in all of baseball?
I would hope the Twins would discount for Hughes’ injury in making their assessment.
However, they might cite my former classmate– Keith “I wouldn’t urinate on him if he was on fire” Law. He consistently rates Buccholz higher than Hughes.
Law submits as follows: Hughes is no better than a #2 or #3rd starter because he hasn’t commanded his changeup; has average command of his curve, which is both slow and lacking an authentic 12-6 break; and his fastball averages 92mph.
Law, on the other hand, claim Buccholz has four pitches he can throw for strikes and with which he exhibits superb command. In addition, Law contends Buccholz throws harder.
Still, I wonder if the disparity in Hughes’ and Buchholz seasons’ hasn’t misled experts, at least subconsciously, to overstimate Buccholz and underestimate Hughes.
I haven’t seen “The Laptop Thief” pitch often enough to know. But what Keith Claw refuses to acknowledge is that Hughes 92 mph fastball is a more formidable pitch than its velocity would suggest because it betrays something the experts call “late explosiveness”. Which physicist tell me is impossible in fact, if feasible in appearance.
betances is my favorite prospect in the system. i really really hope he can stay healthy and pitch well this year
Umm, Tabata was a bit out of shape this year. He even mentioned it himself in his journal that he does.
Why are some of you so hung up on this over-analysis of ballplayers? When did this all begin. Do you really think these scientific breakdowns define a player? How did we survive the past?
With regards to Santana the never ending Hughes – Buchholz debate (their both really good – clay’s more polished, hughes is two years younger) may be mute.
The twins seemed focused on position players. Jason Stark today said they’re considering trading Matt Garza for position players.
If that’s the case it says a lot about what they think of their young pitching.
If the twins are focused on position players then its going to be very difficult for any team in baseball to match the package the dodgers could put together. Perhaps the rockies or diamondbacks but if the dodgers make up their mind to get Santana, they have a great deal of position player talent and Clayton Kershaw to boot.
Marc,
I have to agree with you man. Back in the day me and my boys
had a few hot dogs during the game and we did just fine. No need to make it sound like Scientific Digest in here. This is supposed to be fun!
yeah george sounds like lots of venom in here lately too.
maybe pete needs to restore some order when he gets back from vaca. it’s not the arguing just the minutia. detail after detail. who is the smartest yankee fan? that’s what we need, a poll. Who is the smartest??? Hmmmmmm…
Sometimes arguing scientific stats and numbers is fun, not so much when it comes down to a argument I mean arent me all Yank fans here. Why are we fighting each other its them stickin redsuxs we all hate…
“Who is the smartest??? Hmmmmmm…”
i appreciate the support, but i’m far from the smartest
Just for discussion, Baseball Hardtimes in February 2007 had ranked the followng MLB Organizations having the best Farm Systems:
Putting it all together, here’s how each team’s farm system ranks:
Los Angeles Dodgers
Cleveland Indians
Arizona Diamondbacks
Chicago Cubs
Milwaukee Brewers
Minnesota Twins
Detroit Tigers
New York Mets
Colorado Rockies
Philadelphia Phillies
New York Yankees
Houston Astros
Boston Red Sox
Tampa Bay Devil Rays
San Diego Padres
Toronto Blue Jays
Chicago White Sox
Pittsburgh Pirates
Seattle Mariners
Cincinnati Reds
Los Angeles Angels
Oakland A’s
St. Louis Cardinals
San Francisco Giants
Atlanta Braves
Florida Marlins
Texas Rangers
Kansas City Royals
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the yankees should trade alan horn and phil huges to pitts. for jason bay then bring up austin jackson as the 4th outfeilder to groom him for the 09 season