Rodriguez a changed man?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 20, 2007 
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Interesting quote from A-Rod’s conference call on Monday:
“I banged my head against New York; New York didn’t bang me against the head. I felt like I made a lot of mistakes. I was trying to please everybody rather than do what made me happy.”
That validates what many people thought of him, that he was playing a role rather than just playing. I’m not sure he’s through that phase yet, but coming back to the Yankees the way he did was a good sign. Although obviously it could have been handled better in the first place.
Meanwhile, the Yankees still haven’t officially acknowledged that they have signed Jorge Posada (who had his physical six days ago) or Mariano Rivera. I’m not sure why, unless they’re planning a press conference for everybody at some point next week. The Yankees often move in mysterious ways.
It could be a quiet Winter Meetings unless Brian Cashman gets his trade shoes on. Can prospects not named Chamberlain, Hughes or Kennedy bring back something worthwhile? We could find out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to hear all that A-Rod has to say about what happened in the last few weeks, when the time comes he’s ready to say all he says he wants to say. He took a big PR hit, but if he comes out and says that Boras gave him bad advice, and how he regrets what took place, and so on, it will be a good start. At the end of the day, he’s the best player available, and the Yankees need all the help they can get. But, yeah, I think you need to add a #1 starter somehow, to make all the signings worth it. Posada is good, but 37, and Rivera had his worst year since ’95…the Yankees still need to add pitching, and hopefully a right-handed power bat at first base.
I hope Alex gets a standing O when his name is announced on Opening Day.
I also hope that they don’t trade A-Jack either.
This Alex character is starting to grow on me. Hopefully he’ll stop talking long enough to play when 2008 rolls around.
Pete,
Are you back to work for the winter meetings?
I like this Arod version too. He’s become a very sympathetic character and I like him! Is that really possible when you are professional athlete and the best player in baseball? My bet is he gets a rousing ovation on opening day at Yankee Stadium!
“ALEX BEING ALEX”
“Can prospects not named Chamberlain, Hughes or Kennedy bring back something worthwhile?”
nope.
Nope? You’re just wrong, dude.
Tabata, Horne, Sanchez, Melancon, not to mention A-Jack, are in demand, and I don’t want to trade any of them.
uh…
I hope Horne doesn’t get traded.
“It could be a quiet Winter Meetings unless Brian Cashman gets his trade shoes on. Can prospects not named Chamberlain, Hughes or Kennedy bring back something worthwhile? We could find out.”
Not if you want Johan in return, unless a package of Robinson, Melky, Allan Horne and Jeff Karstens is supposed to get it for the NYY. And then they create holes at 2B and CF… Not worth it, IMO…..
If they want to trade for a SP, add a veteran/top of the rotation kind of guy, assuming Pettitte doesn’t come back, I say they make a run at Dan Haren. It appears Billy Beane is about to blow up the A’s. Whose to say Horne, Karstens and some low level prospect couldn’t snag him…. Beane covets young pitchers…
Both CC and Johan are set to be free agents after this coming season, 08. I think they will both hold off signing ANY extensions and test the market.
If Pettitte goes, the NYY will need at leat one, of not two, LHP in the SP rotation.
That’s the attitude to have, I love it !!!!!!!!!!!!
“Hey man, that’s just: ALEX BEING ALEX”…. I love it…
Someone get the tee-shirts made, I’ll buy one…
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Cashman add Freddy Garcia to an incentive-laden one year deal, poss team option, big payout on year two.
He’s been after him for years, a la Theo Epstein/ JD Drew, man crush for years.
You know, after the injuries and surgery last year, Garcia will be looking for a 1-2 year deal to get his arm right, put out some decent stats to get one last big deal.
Is the gamble worth it?
Hicks II…The Yankee brain trust (Steins, Cashman etc…) got their pockets picked.
With the revenue sharing from the HR chase taking the total value of his contract to 300M or more, where does ‘Wanting to be a Yankee come into the equation’?
The Yankees held all the cards as he wasn’t getting that deal or anything close to it anywhere else.
If he had signed their original offer of approximately 240M, I would have been impressed with his sincerity about being a Yankee.
If the Mudhens had been the only team to offer that, he no doubt would be putting on that uniform and proclaiming his undying love for them.
As a few other fans have noted this team heading into 08′ looks a lot like the 07′ that didn’t get it done. Not to mention a gaping hole if Andy decides not to come back.
Another year older and deeper in debt.
Jesse
November 20th, 2007 at 7:21 am
Hicks II…The Yankee brain trust (Steins, Cashman etc…) got their pockets picked.
With the revenue sharing from the HR chase taking the total value of his contract to 300M or more, where does ‘Wanting to be a Yankee come into the equation’?
The Yankees held all the cards as he wasn’t getting that deal or anything close to it anywhere else.
If he had signed their original offer of approximately 240M, I would have been impressed with his sincerity about being a Yankee.
If the Mudhens had been the only team to offer that, he no doubt would be putting on that uniform and proclaiming his undying love for them.
As a few other fans have noted this team heading into 08′ looks a lot like the 07′ that didn’t get it done. Not to mention a gaping hole if Andy decides not to come back.
Another year older and deeper in debt.
_________________________________________________
Rodriguez wasn’t on the open market long enough to get many offers. If what Hank Steinbrenner says is true, that he and Rodriguez have been talking for more than a week, he couldn’t discuss money with too many teams, and certainly nothing in depth. He hardly had time to talk to teams at all, since NYY had exclusive rights to him until two weeks ago.
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Derek Jeter: all-star shortstop, captain of the Yankees, pride of New York — and tax cheat? Read on for a magical mystery tour through New York’s tax bureaucracy, which has made a refugee out of one of its most famous icons.
The Empire State claims Mr. Jeter dodged income taxes for 2001 to 2003 and that it’s owed millions, plus interest. Number 2 says he lives most of the year at his primary home in Tampa, Florida, and that he snowbirds in New York to play ball.
Who can blame him? Florida has no personal income tax, while New York’s rate for the top bracket is 6.8%, rising to 12.15% in New York City (including temporary surtaxes that expired in 2005; the combined rate is now 10.5%). That makes for one of the worst tax burdens in America — and politicians are proud of it. Mayor Michael Bloomberg boasts that his city is a “luxury good” for which everyone should happily pay higher taxes.
New York tax laws also take a notoriously wide view of “residency.” Literally tens of thousands of people only work in-state Tuesday to Thursday each week to avoid spending the requisite 184 days per year that would subject their full income to the state tax regime. And Albany’s taxmen try to catch them with things like travel records, credit-card usage and phone logs.
New York doesn’t claim that Mr. Jeter has avoided taxes on the salary he’s earned in-state — i.e., his 10-year, $189 million Yankee contract. New York’s complaint is in pursuit of the additional millions a megastar like Mr. Jeter makes from endorsement deals and the like, as well as from his investments.
According to court filings, state auditors don’t dispute that his primary residence was in Florida before 2001 or after 2003, or even that he spent most of the year down south over the target period. Rather, they’re employing the more subjective “domicilery test.” They point to Mr. Jeter’s Manhattan apartment, his “numerous public statements professing his love for New York,” and allege he has “immersed himself in the New York community.” Gosh.
Yankee owner George Steinbrenner is also a primary resident of Florida, no doubt for the same reasons as Mr. Jeter and who knows how many other professional athletes. Given the lengths New York is going to extract its pound of flesh, it’s a wonder New Yorkers even have teams to root for.
arod was not going to get any offers besides the Yanks over $250 mill. no way.. the Yanks played nice(who knows why) when they should have played hardball with him…
the yanks pis_ away money to bad….
I am still amazed that the Yankees are willing to overpay a player for 10 years and still do not have an ace starting pitcher. Who will start those Big Games?????
Apparently the Yankees would rather have ‘Celebrities and Publicity’ than win games in the post season.
How the mighty have fallen -
If NY is going to tax Yankee players 12% of their income because they play in NY rather than Florida, then it would seem that the Yankees have to pay at least 12% more to sign a player.
And if they can also tax the ancillary income(as the city is claiming), then they would need an even higher salary to justify playing for the Yankees.
Back in the good old days before those evil people(Kennedy, Reagan and Bush) lowered taxes on the rich, the top federal tax bracket was 91%, Some person complained that between the state, federal and city tax it came to more than 100%.
The Supreme Court, in its wisdom, said it was legal.
Do you think the Dems, who are promising to increase taxes on the rich, would go to such an extreme that A-rod and some of the other Yankeees taxes added up to more than he earned?
Smart money says top echelon products of the Yankee farm system (Hughes, Joba, Kennedy & others) do not go in a deal for Santana. This would amount to regression and the old ways of grabbing every marquee name in sight, stripping the farm system in the process.
Far more than the majority of Yankee fans have liked what they’ve seen in the new and better approach of building the team and so do the young players who signed with the idea of one day becoming a Yankee. Stay the course not stray the course is the answer for the long term. The short term has yet to show a championship in this century. The bandaid approach hasn’t worked.
In today’s Ledger, they wrote that the Yankees have an interest in securing Jenks from the White Sox in a trade as a possible set-up guy for Mariano. They didn’t speculate who they would trade for him, except to say that if the WS did not sign Hunter for centerfield, they may be open to Melky or Damon.
On-D-Ball,
New Yorkers have only themselves to blame. They keep electing tax and spend politicians, who in order to pay for rising cost of government resort to confiscatory tax policies.
Not that the R’s (at the Federal level)are any better with regard to spending. Our so-called conservative President never met a spending bill he didn’t like (no vetoes in 6 years) until the D’s were in charge. A pox on all their houses say I!
arod was not going to get any offers besides the Yanks over $250 mill. no way.. the Yanks played nice(who knows why) when they should have played hardball with him…
They didn’t play ‘hardball’ because one they weren’t out to humiliate him, just make sure he really wanted to be a Yankee. And two the NEED was both ways. They gave Alex market vaule (rumor is a team was going to offer 8 years at $225 approx $28 a year) but added a couple years to it and in return they didn’t have to give any top prospects in a trade or any draft picks for a free agent and also got the best over all player in the game. Both side win.
*All references to $ are in terms of millions LOL
stuart
November 20th, 2007 at 7:54 am
arod was not going to get any offers besides the Yanks over $250 mill. no way.. the Yanks played nice(who knows why) when they should have played hardball with him…
the yanks pis_ away money to bad….
_______________________________________________________
You know all of this for a fact, Stuart Small?
“Meanwhile, the Yankees still haven’t officially acknowledged that they have signed Jorge Posada (who had his physical six days ago) or Mariano Rivera. I’m not sure why, unless they’re planning a press conference for everybody at some point next week. The Yankees often move in mysterious ways.”
May be it has something to do with Rule V draft. They have to submit 40 protected list today and make it available to all teams. As the draft is in the first week of December, I do not know what happens to the list if they officially sign players during the next two weeks.
Republican Congresses and presidents have overspent for decades. It was during Clinton’s presidency that Congress was forced to learn how to spend it’s money. Balanced budgets and surpluses seem to happen under Democrats, yet Democrats are not usually seen as sound on economic policy. They are much more sound than their Republican counterparts =)
Anyway, baseball. AROD will hit 59 HR this season with 165 RBI. He will come oh so close to the triple crown. Unless of course he is listed in the Mitchell Report. THen he will only hit 22 HR with 102 RBI and a .265 avg and Abreu + Giambi will have better than usual seasons.
The Yankees do have numerous prospects in addition to the Big 3 that have value. The question is what value do you get back in moving these players.
No World Series team has ever won with 25 players from their farm system. While it’s fun to watch these young players grow and succeed within the organization, it takes the right mix of home grown and imported talent to win.
BC has to be willing to move players if it makes the team better for this year and beyond.
BBFan
November 20th, 2007 at 8:23 am
“Meanwhile, the Yankees still haven’t officially acknowledged that they have signed Jorge Posada (who had his physical six days ago) or Mariano Rivera. I’m not sure why, unless they’re planning a press conference for everybody at some point next week. The Yankees often move in mysterious ways.â€
May be it has something to do with Rule V draft. They have to submit 40 protected list today and make it available to all teams. As the draft is in the first week of December, I do not know what happens to the list if they officially sign players during the next two weeks.
______________________________________________________
It would make no sense to “officially” sign them until after the draft, because they would then have to be protected or take a chance on exposing them to the draft. I would like to see them wait until after the draft, keep the spots on the 40 man roster open to protect as many kids as possible, and allow some time to make trades for some of others instead of losing them.
I hope they hold a huge press conference and announce all their free agent signings. That would be great!!
ARod, just get some hits in the playoffs. That’s all we ask. Thanks.
Doreen, where is that article in the Ledger? I cant seem to find the info on Jenks…
If the Yankees could get Jenks for Melky plus a minor leaguer, i’d pull the trigger. I dont know why the White Sox would move him, though.
Very interesting point. I think you hit the nail on the head. By holding off on announcing anyone they have 3 addtional spots!
Does anyone know if they’ve released the guy named Carl Pavano. I’m not exactly sure who he is.
jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
November 20th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Very interesting point. I think you hit the nail on the head. By holding off on announcing anyone they have 3 addtional spots!
Does anyone know if they’ve released the guy named Carl Pavano. I’m not exactly sure who he is.
____________________________________________________
Counting Pettitte’s,Molina’s and Pavano’s spots, they’d have 6 spots.
and viz makes 7.
36 players are listed on the 40 man on the Yankees site. I thought they only added one player.
Villone is also off the team, so now i’m really confused. We should have alot more spots than 4.
Fan27
How right I believe you are. Alex has already had to eat a fair amount of humble pie and may be doing some more dining in the weeks to come. I don’t think the Yanks had any intention of trying to humilate him any further than how he’s already perceived to have been humbled (though of course we would all happliy become masochists to be so humiliated -LOL!)
Whatever you think of A-Rod, I personally believe that in a lot of ways he’s a ‘work in progress.’Perhaps that just my optimistic view of things, but I would hope not. In any case, I think that this is indeed a win/win situation and that, at the end of the day, the Yankees got him for about market value. OK, perhaps they paid a bit more than anyone else, but don’t the Yankees always? No one can deny that New York is (rightfully) a demanding place and players usually expect a bit more for the extra demands!
Any “role” that A-Rod was playing was encouraged by the Yankees”
The following is part of an article from the NJ Record written in February 2004 from A-Rod’s Yankee press conference:
“But Rodriguez’s decision to convert to third base speaks to his respect for Jeter’s incumbency. Nor is A-Rod willing to challenge the Yankees’ desire to keep Jeter happy.
“I consider third base as a challenge, but it’s a non-issue,” Rodriguez said. “I told Derek: ‘The big thing is winning, that’s all that matters.’ I think the coolest thing in the world is being a Yankee.”
Jeter accepted the offer politely, having heard it during the plane ride from Tampa on Monday night. The two Yankees sat side by side, preparing themselves for the human tidal wave that awaited them in the Bronx.
Indeed, Jeter’s answers were polished and impenetrable, but his patience with the who’s-at-short debate won’t be limitless. He told reporters, “I’m not insulted by the question, but I don’t think it should linger on.”
“Over and over, Rodriguez repeated that same theme: he’s here to help, he’s here to link with Jeter, even defer to him – but not to eclipse anyone. The terms of the A-Rod-Jeter relationship isn’t just a gentleman’s agreement, it’s practically a decree from club ownership.”
A-Rod ripped that script in Spring Training 2007 by deferring no more and speaking about his relationship with Jeter. Sheff may speak too often for some of our liking but he spoke volumes this spring when he said that would be liberating for A-Rod and he would have a monster year. You can’t play winning baseball if you’re walking on eggshells. The next script he needs to rip is the one in his head about not being able to hit in October. I’ve heard Mattingly talk about what Pedroia said during the playoffs this year about nobody was going to tell him he forgot how to hit even if he went 0-30 in the playoffs. A-Rod needs to make that his new script.
He’s always going to be lightning rod and say or do dumb things sometimes. If he keeps it real and just plays good baseball, I think NY fans will embrace those flaws.
Some arithmetic.
If we assume that the players endorsements approximate his salary, then with the NY 12 per cent tax rate, the player would receive an immediate 25% reduction in salary if he is traded from Florida to NY.
Thus a player earning $15 million in Florida, would find he had to give up something like $3.75 million in taxes (half from salary and half from the tax on the endorsement money(which I have assumed is about equal to his salary).
On the other hand a trade to Florida would be like a 33% increase in salary.
Hughes and Joba will be aces in the very near future.
How mighty is your hatred of A-Rod.
btw, Unless you have seen the Yankees’ financial statement, you have no idea whether or not they have overpaid for the best player in MLB, and maybe the best player who ever played the game.
good article on the front page of nomaas about alan horne. he’d be the best pitcher in several teams farm system.
Jeter isn’t a tax cheat, but cry me a river over Paris Hilton’s tax return.
I guess you never heard of Leona “only the little people pay taxes” Helmsley.
Hopefully New York high tax rate will put Leona’s pooch in the dog house.
D Ball
That was always the debate with MLB salaries in Canada in the 90′s. The exchange rate basically cut the buying power of their salaries by 25%.
Hughes and Joba might be starting Aces in the future; but they also might not be. we can all hope, but none of us really know yet.
but if they turn out to be, how nice would Johan Santana look in front of the two of them?
Turn Two –
I”m looking for link, but it’s in the article about A-Rod winning the MVP, with the sub-title about Mariano accepting the Yankees’ contract offer. It’s the 4th paragraph.
If Santana can be had for assets not named Hughes, Joba, or Cano, I would listen, but the price will probably not be worth it.
Annie Savoy-
Funny how you are never around to defend the crazy remarks you make, this happens in almost every thread. Guess you don’t really believe in what you are saying.
Bush sucks, but can you please keep politics out of here?
Doreen
I saw it on SILive.com too about Jenks. Here’s the link
http://www.silive.com/yankees/.....038;coll=1
thanks, pat. at least they do recognize in the article that its a long shot. again, i dont know why the sox would trad Jenks to begin with, but i guess everyone has a price.
is there any value in signing them after the rule 5 draft so we protect the farm system a little better
“Funny how you are never around to defend the crazy remarks you make, this happens in almost every thread. Guess you don’t really believe in what you are saying.”
don’t even bother. what’s the point? you are arguing with a webbot. she doesn’t even exist, she is merely a script that combs the internet for discussion of A-Rod and prints one of 7 pre-selected dumb comments.
because 2 MVP seasons in 4 years means A-Rod is here only for his “celebrity”. the guy does nothing on the field…
I thought this was a blog about the Yankees?
From Tom Gage, one of the knucklenuts that voted for Mag’s over A-Rod…
“Be true to what you believe.
This ballot happened to be for American League Most Valuable Player, a privilege I’ve had as a baseball writer more than a dozen times over the years.
Often it’s easy. This time it wasn’t. I voted for Magglio Ordonez of the Tigers instead of Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees. Only one other voter of 28 agreed.
That voter was Jim Hawkins of the Oakland Press, who clearly saw the same season I did, and the same reasons to vote for Ordonez as I did. His vote was as much validation for mine as my vote was for his, because it meant Ordonez made the identical impression on us both.
It was such a strong impression that I couldn’t dismiss it by simply saying, “Gee, I better vote for A-Rod because everyone else is.”
I don’t blame anybody else for not voting for Magglio, though. They didn’t see him play every day. They went by the stat sheet — as I’ve had to do with most MVP votes.
But I believed in the vote for Ordonez when I cast it. And now, several wondering-why phone calls later, I still believe in it.
I did it because I thought Ordonez was more valuable to his team than A-Rod was to his, but also for specific statistical reasons: such as the wide disparity between Ordonez’s batting average (.363-.314) and more so because Ordonez hit .429 with runners in scoring position compared to .333 by A-Rod.
To me, that was the separating proof of value right there. The Tigers were able to depend on Ordonez with runners in scoring position far more than the Yankees were able to depend on A-Rod. Yes, Rodriguez had all those home runs, the glamour stat. Plus he had 17 more RBIs than Ordonez, but only 17.
I think a 49-point difference in batting average and a 96-point difference in their averages with runners in scoring position, the clutch stat to home runs’ glamour, more than offset the obvious reasons to vote for A-Rod.
Rest assured, I did not do it for ‘homer’ reasons. If that were the case, I would have voted for Tigers every chance I had through the years. That said, I fully expected Rodriguez to win. He had a great year, but not one worthy of getting every first-place vote.
With the result being announced at 2 p.m. on Monday, I knew my cell phone would start ringing by 2:15 from reporters and talk shows wanting to know my reasoning. ”
Full article:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb.....00343/1129
““Can prospects not named Chamberlain, Hughes or Kennedy bring back something worthwhile?â€
nope.”
you do realize that Johan Santana is not the only player in baseball?
the yankees have plenty of trade pieces.
and believe it or not, they don’t HAVE to have Santana to have a shot at the WS next year.
“I think a 49-point difference in batting average and a 96-point difference in their averages with runners in scoring position, the clutch stat to home runs’ glamour, more than offset the obvious reasons to vote for A-Rod. ”
wow, i’d have felt better if he HAD voted for him based on “homer” reasons.
this analysis was pathetic.
Tom Gage represents everything that is wrong with america
RISP:
A-Rod: .333/.460/.678/1.138
Mags: .429/.498/.639/1.137
“Yes, Rodriguez had all those home runs, the glamour stat”
and here i was under the impression the whole time that HRs were really good for helping your team win games.
and all this time no one told me HRs are only good because they are glamourous.
Total Win Shares:
Arod- 39
Maggs- 36
Jeter is in New York according to New York Post:
Wedding Day-NEW YORK POST
WOODY Johnson’s ex-wife, Sale Johnson, wed her boyfriend, Ahmad Rashad, yesterday at La Grenouille in front of a crowd of friends including Princess Yasmin Aga Khan, NBA Commissioner David Stern, Donald Trump, Martha and Carl Lindner and Derek Jeter. “It was going to be a birthday party for him,” Sale told us. “Then it turned into a party to celebrate his being inducted into the Football Hall of Fame, and finally he said, ‘Let’s just get married.’ ” One person not there: Sale’s estranged daughter, Casey.
Perhaps the Yankees do not need Santana to win the WS next year but unless Joba Chamberlain or Philip Hughes can both pitch 200 innings and emulate Justin Verlander’s season, the Yankees will have a difficult time doing so, especially if Andy Pettitte retires.
I wonder if Bedard would require the Yankees to surrender more or less than Santana. Bedard’s two remaining years before free-agency would suggest he’s worth more. On the other hand, Santana is Santana.
Would the Orioles accept Hughes and Melky for Bedard? Evidently, the Twins want Cano for Santana, and I’m profoundly reluctant to relinquish Cano. In the abstract, I concede Santana exceeds Cano in value. However, Cano is the Yankees best, and perhaps only, offensive threat under the age of 30, at least on the major league roster.
BTW, all this discussion of trading Melky causes me to wonder whether the Yankees think Brent Gardner or Austin Jackson can play CF next year. Otherwise, why trade the Melk-man. Rowand, Jones, and Hunter cost too much for their ages.
There is no chance in hell that the Orioles would trade Bedard to the Yankees.
I don’t know what’s more amusing…the kids on this blog who hop on and off the bandwagon at the drop of a hat, or the members of the media who still believe a word that comes out of the fraud’s mouth.
It is laughable that those two homer writers voted for Ordonez.
They talk about “sexy” stats. Yes. Homers are. But its sexy for a reason. Because it ain’t easy to do.
I could see if the Tigers made the playoffs but where was their MVP when the team choked and faded in July and August???
I know where the should be unanimous MVP was when the Yanks were flailing. He carried them to the playoffs.
One bad consequence of the Arod deal is that when Derek Jeter’s contract is up three years from now (at age 36), and he demands a new a six-year deal at a mere $20 million per year (far less than Arod), it will be impossible for the Yanks to say no. That’s an outrageously bad deal for the Yanks, but how can they say no?
By inflating everybody’s contract, the Arod deal is going to cost the Yanks far, far more than the outrageous salary paid directly to Arod. The more I think about the consequences of the Arod deal, the more I think the Yanks should run away from it as fast as possible. It is not too late!
there are apparently talks between the Orioles and Dodgers going on surrounding Bedard and Matt Kemp plus any number of other prospects, including LaRoche, Loney, Kershaw, Meloan, etc… all the usual suspects.
With all these teams that have the combo of big money ability and good farm systems (Yankees, Red Saux, Dodgers, Angels, etc) all basically have one bullet they can fire. They need decide whether they want pitching (Santana, Bedard, Haren) or offense (Miguel Cabrera).
If the Yankees came up with the right package, they can prob have Bedard. But people on this board would flip if you have to trade Hughes, Tabata, and another high ceiling arm to get him.
You know whats amusing to me? People like Donna being so judgemental of others and bashing this blog yet posting here. Makes me wonder.
Donna
November 20th, 2007 at 10:55 am
I don’t know what’s more amusing…the kids on this blog who hop on and off the bandwagon at the drop of a hat, or the members of the media who still believe a word that comes out of the fraud’s mouth.
__________________________________________________
Or, perhaps the ones that think they are “kewl” because they call Rodriguez a fraud or “A-Fraud”.
The Dodgers and Angels have multiple bullets they can fire if they want. They can get both Cabrera and a Bedard if they truly wanted to.
I still think the Yankees, with the power they already have in the lineup, are going to give Gardner a look for CF in Spring Training. from everything i’ve read, he seems like a Juan Pierre type player, with a better arm and who takes walks for a much better OBP. He’s not going to be a proficient slugger, but this team already has sluggers up and down the lineup.
Most people think he’s got another year of development to go, but I think if he can prove that he can hit .280 and play solid defense, his pure speed gives him an edge over Melky. His SB % thus far in the minor leagues has been stellar and it’s an element that would fit very well on an aggresive Girardi team down at the bottom of the lineup.
little rocket:
if jeter is coming off with the kind of production he’s been having the last few years then they will give him a great deal. if not then they will have to assess what he’s worth to the team then. they don’t keep people on the team for charity reasons…look at bernie
Edge over Melky?
Why? Because of speed??
Melky is a yr younger than Gardner and has 3 yrs in the majors already. Productive years.
It’s not even close.
I’m having deju from last year. When everyone wanted to throw Melky overboard in every trade that came along. He’s 23 and makes no money and has proven he can play in NY and the team plays better with him in the lineup. It is going to take a Santana to get him out of the lineup.
Migames – LOL I was going to ask regarding the Mags and A-Rod comparsion of how many the hits, RBIs etc came when the team needed it the most. I do believe Alex had the most tying or go ahead HRs (possibly hits) in MLB this year. And A-Rod did his best to carry the team in April and June.
I think it says something when Alex is suppose to the be the most hated person in the sport (outside of Barry Bonds) and yet all but 2 voters saw him as the MVP of the year.
Who ia A-Jack?
and Melky is a nice player, but if Gardner can play a comparative CF defensively (which, by reports, he actually would cover more ground in the stadium, and takes better routes to balls than Melky), and he can hit with an average offensively comparitive to Melky, having 50 SBs at the bottom of the order is a huge difference.
i’m just saying, it wouldnt surprise me if Gardner got a serious look.
Both Melky and Gardner are projected, over the course of their careers, to be no better than a 4th OF on a great team, so lets not get crazy over what Melky can actually be here, either.
A-Jack is Austin Jackson, Reggie’s son. Lol
Who wins NL MVP today, I think Jimmy Rollins should win. Holliday & Fielder are the other front runners.
Buddy Biancalana
November 20th, 2007 at 11:18 am
A-Jack is Austin Jackson, Reggie’s son. Lol
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Andrew’s great-great-great-great grandson.
The Yankees may be waiting until after the Dec 6th Rule 5 draft to officially sign these guys. Thus saving roster spots and not leaving players available thru the draft. They have 4 spots without Arod, Mo, Posada, and Andy that can be used by other players they want to keep on the 40 man roster. At the end of the month the guys on the 60 day DL get put back on the 40 man roster taking up more spots. Just a thought.
Thanks Green Beret7 for A-Jack ID
What on G-d’s green earth do Republican congresses (ycch!) have to do with the Yankees?
BigGuy
November 20th, 2007 at 11:25 am
The Yankees may be waiting until after the Dec 6th Rule 5 draft to officially sign these guys. Thus saving roster spots and not leaving players available thru the draft. They have 4 spots without Arod, Mo, Posada, and Andy that can be used by other players they want to keep on the 40 man roster. At the end of the month the guys on the 60 day DL get put back on the 40 man roster taking up more spots. Just a thought.
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They actually have 8, now when they release Pavano, today, plus Molina, Vizcaino and Villone.
What on G-d’s green earth do Republican congresses (ycch!) have to do with the Yankees?
________________________________
True, arent modern republican’s more enlined with the confederates anyways?????
casual blogger
November 20th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Thanks Green Beret7 for A-Jack ID
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No problem. It always comes in handy when trivia questions about Andrew Jackson comes up in bar room bets for beer.
Greenberet7-
How did you get credit for A Jack? Guess they thought you were fuunier.
dammit how many time do I have to say it, it’s Action Jackson or “Action” for short
Just read Tom Gage’s feeble defense of his vote for Ordonez over ARod for MVP. He pooh-poohed the 17 RBI difference between them, but didn’t mention the bigger difference in Runs Scored: ARod 146, Maggs 117.
.
“The Dodgers and Angels have multiple bullets they can fire if they want. They can get both Cabrera and a Bedard if they truly wanted to.”
If that’s true, then so can the Yanks. Sure, the Angels have Wood, Aybar, Kendrick, Adenhart, Ervin Santana, Weaver and Saunders to play with…but if they trade most of those guys for a 3B and a starter, they’ll be screwed. No 2B, no SS, 3/5 of a rotation and their best minor league pitcher all gone.
Similar logic with the Dodgers. Sure, they COULD trade Billingsley, Broxton, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, etc, but then they’d have more holes. And NOTHING left in the minors. That’d be exactly what the Yanks used to do, and we’ve seen what that leads to.
In fact, the Yanks could do that now. Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, Cano, Melky, Tabata, Jackson…they certainly COULD land an ace and Miguel Cabrera…but why would they?
Buddy Biancalana
November 20th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Greenberet7-
How did you get credit for A Jack? Guess they thought you were fuunier
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It helps when you e-mail people $20 bills.
Actually, Jackson’s nickname is A-Jax.
kewl…
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11....._31595.htm
I heard that they were waiting on Mariano so they could announce it all together.
hey, i didn’t know that joba was in new rochelle yesterday. Is there some way to follow these things? I’d love to get an autograph for my special person during my vacation… thanks
jonnycat
November 20th, 2007 at 11:55 am
hey, i didn’t know that joba was in new rochelle yesterday. Is there some way to follow these things? I’d love to get an autograph for my special person during my vacation… thanks
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Possibly write or e-mail the Yankee’s PR department and ask for a schedule of the players/staff public appearances.
No team is going to drain its farm system over one player.
Both the Dodgers and Angels have the parts to make Cabrera, Bedard or Santana deals.
However, neither team has the parts, or the desire to obtain two of the above players. For financial reasons as well as prospect reasons.
The Orioles would never trade Bedard to a division rival. That’s franchise suicide.
Cabrera? The word in South Florida is, the Angels have the edge over the Dodgers in obtaining him.
The thinking is, Brandon Wood becomes expendable because the Angels will put Erick Aybar at shortstop. Adenhart and Wood (who would play third base for the Marlins) are two components of the deal. The Marlins want Howie Kendrick and, so far, the Angels have said no.
It will be interesting to see who blinks first in the discussions at the Winter Meetings.
Who’s the favorite for Cabrera now, whozat???
Yeah, the Dodgers.
And the Yanks cannot do what the Dodgers and Angels can do.
The LA team shave way more major league ready prospects especially position player prospects. They have double A and triple A teams full of them.
We are pencilling in our top guys for major league jobs. The LA teams have them sitting in the minors.
A big difference don’t you say?
They may be waiting on Alex. Alex agreeing to do a big press conference with Mariano and Posada would really make him look like a team guy.
Ajax is a Greek mythological hero. Can you imagine the marketing possibilities for A-Rod and A-Jax? Wonder if Austin wears Nike…
(A-Jax sounds better than A-Rod, though)
Actually SJ44, the Dodgers have the lead for Miggy.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7466954
The thing is both those teams COULD get a big bat and a top starter if they wanted. Could being the operative word. The Angels havent made a prospect trade since the 80′s.
Joba’s appearance was in conjunction with Steiner Sports.
You can check their website for player appearances (steinersports.com) since they handle just about all of the Yankees individual player deals.
A-Jax has nothing on “ACTION JACKSON”….nothing
Alex doing a press conference might look good but he would need to address the opt out questions before that. The 3 of them standing there and all the questions being about Alex would be a joke.
I asked yesterday and no one answered. Do the Yanks usually do press conferences for returning players? I don’t remember any.
So with all our key players coming back, what do the Yankees do now?
I hope Andy Pettitte returns. I love that guy. Having said that, I am not sure how long we wait to find out before we try to do something else. Regardless, we need another starter and if we get one and let Pettitte take his time, then we can always put IPK, Moose, or someone else in the pen.
I hope Wang is working on another out pitch because he is definitely going to need it.
In South Florida, where I live, the people covering the Marlins still believe the Angels are the frontrunners.
Perhaps something has changed in the last 3 days.
Both the Dodgers and Angels always talk a good game when it comes to deals but, neither team likes parting with prospects.
The Angels have a new GM (Bill Stoneman NEVER parted with prospects). It will be interesting to see who wins the Cabrera Derby because he is going to end up on the West Coast. Just a matter of which team on the West Coast.
pat,
I think they have, but they are never as done up as the ones when a big time player signs with the team.
In essence, the Yankees signed the best catcher, closer and third baseman on the free agent market.
Just because they are their own players, doesn’t minimize the importance of the signings.
Now, they need to get Andy back in the fold.
If they can, and add a couple of parts to the bullpen, I’d gladly take a shot with the team as currently constructed.
SJ44,
I read on the ESPN’s rumors that the Angles are the front runners as well.
I am from South FL as well. Man, I really miss it down there.
Thanks Jake
I’m happy Arod is back and I’m happy he’s dropped the shroud of BS he seemed quilted in before this season.
I’d rather my players be human and have flaws and say the wrong thing once in awhile.
The thing that frustrates me about Jeter sometimes is he went to the Crash Davis school of interviews. He tells you nothing. Every quote is meaningless. He’s completely guarded.
I actually like that Arod is going to come clean about this contract. I like what he did last spring training with Jeter.
I think the guy is an emotional late bloomer and I think letting all of the polished crafted image garbage go sets him free.
Most people when they grow up and mature finally realize at some point who they want to be and they can care less what their family, friends or anyone thinks.
Taking Arod 32 years to get there isn’t bad. I’ve got friends older than him that still live with their parents.
“One bad consequence of the Arod deal is that when Derek Jeter’s contract is up three years from now (at age 36), and he demands a new a six-year deal at a mere $20 million per year (far less than Arod), it will be impossible for the Yanks to say no. That’s an outrageously bad deal for the Yanks, but how can they say no? ”
easily. b/c no other team would even come close to paying him that. in 3 years it is very likely that Jeter will not be a SS. so unless he becomes a CFer at age 36, he most likely will no longer be an all-star level player. no one will be lining up to give him a 6 year/$120M contract.
“By inflating everybody’s contract, the Arod deal is going to cost the Yanks far, far more than the outrageous salary paid directly to Arod. ”
except A-Rod didn’t really get much of a pay raise, did he? he stood to make $27M in 2008, $32M in 2009, and $32M in 2010.
he will now average $27M for the next 10 years.
not a lot of inflation there.
the contract that WILL cause inflation is Mariano’s contract.
A-Rod essentially extended at his current salary. Mariano blew away the current rate for closers by 35%.
where is everyone’s concern over that?
SJ44,
And Andy is the best free-agent SP, so if they got him that would be 4/4.
Hey, I asked a question yesterday and was hoping you’d give an answer.
NL pitchers almost universally struggle when they switch leagues. Do NL hitters struggle any when they come to the AL because they see superior pitching?
-thanks for the scoop SJ44
Mel,
Not really because AL pitchers throw more fastballs and the good NL hitters, like Miguel Cabrera, can kill fastballs.
Pitching is a different deal because the lower part of NL batters orders are very weak.
Its a much bigger adjustment for pitchers when they face deeper, better hitting lineups in the AL.
Add to it, guys who are touch and feel guys, like Maddox and Glavine, almost have no chance in the AL. If they had 30+ AL starts every year, their ERA’s would be in the high 5′s and up.
Can’t pitch like that and survive in the AL.
Santana is likely going nowhere until 08. Then open up the bank for him.
Why trade anyone when $75 million is coming off the books next year, and you will have a better idea of what your young staff can do? Do you need tons of power at 1B and CF when your 3B, and 2B have power?
I see maybe a set-up guy or two for insurance. Melky for Jenks is not going to happen, nor should it. If Pettitte comes back, they are generally set for next year.
The major improvement is in the manager’s spot.
Hmmm makes a great point.
Mariano’s contact directly affects closers. It puts their salaries up to levels not seen before in the game.
It will affect teams with young closers like the Red Sox.
I am sure Papelbon’s agents aren’t broken up over Mo’s deal. It just added more millions to a future Papelbon deal.
Arod’s contract is actually for less money in the first 3 year of his deal than it would have been had he not opted out.
With the bonuses he obtained in the previous deal, his salary would have topped 30 million the next 3 years.
The length? While one could argue its too long by a couple of years, the Yankees aren’t going to let someone else gain the benefit of Arod’s milestones he could hit late in his career.
Plus, the Yankees will have 100 million more per year in revenues coming to them when the new Yankee Stadium opens in 2009.
Money, the Yankees have. Using it intelligently? That’s the key and that hasn’t been done in the past.
They seemed to have turned that corner. Its hard to argue they haven’t used their financial might well. Not just in re-signing Posada, Rivera and Arod. Bringing back Jose Molina, while not talked about much, was a huge move.
It gives Jorge more of a break and you have no dropoff in defense with Molina behind the plate.
IMO, that was as much a “must signing” as the other 3 guys. Especially, with the new emphasis they have with young pitching. Molina is great with young arms.
“We are pencilling in our top guys for major league jobs. The LA teams have them sitting in the minors.
A big difference don’t you say?”
Either you don’t read my posts, or you don’t even know the teams in question. Half the players I listed in the Angels’ stable are in the majors NOW. Kendrick and all the pitchers save Adenhart. Also, they just traded their SS. So one of Aybar or Wood is needed at the MLB level.
Now, the Dodgers. If you’d read the article I talked about the other day (where Coletti talked about how teams are asking for Kemp, Billingsley, Loney) you’d know that THOSE GUYS ARE IN THE MAJORS TOO.
You’re talking out of your ass. They can make one big trade, just like the Yanks can, without killing themselves. Not two.
G. Love,
Jeter may be vanilla in his post-game interviews, but he’s charismatic (thus people are drawn to him).
Charisma is not something you can buy, but Alex will help his cause by using self-deprecation and goofiness (a la Damon). We saw a little of it this year, I think Alex will be more relaxed now and his true personality will come out.
You’re right about late bloomers. And Alex was groomed to be a superstar so I’m sure he had to hide a lot of that goofiness and tried to act perfect all the time.
Assertiveness is another attractive quality and I think that you’ll see more of that, especially with the media. I think there will be some rules of engagement dictated by Alex. The media tried to run him out of town. Now they have to play ball (I’m sure Pete will disagree with this POV)
In yesterday’s conference call, it was made clear that the contract was off-limits. So what are the first 2 questions about? And what was Alex’s response? “SIGH”. The love/hate of the media should be interesting to follow over the next 10 years. How many of these guys can Alex win over?
SJ44,
Thanks. Although it did take Drew an entire season for him to adjust. Lucky for the Sox, he did it in the post-season. lol.
not sure if it was posted but Tom Gage explains why he voted for mags and not arod ….
“I did it because I thought Ordonez was more valuable to his team than A-Rod was to his, but also for specific statistical reasons: such as the wide disparity between Ordonez’s batting average (.363-.314) and more so because Ordonez hit .429 with runners in scoring position compared to .333 by A-Rod.
To me, that was the separating proof of value right there. The Tigers were able to depend on Ordonez with runners in scoring position far more than the Yankees were able to depend on A-Rod. Yes, Rodriguez had all those home runs, the glamour stat. Plus he had 17 more RBIs than Ordonez, but only 17.
I think a 49-point difference in batting average and a 96-point difference in their averages with runners in scoring position, the clutch stat to home runs’ glamour, more than offset the obvious reasons to vote for A-Rod. ”
i still think arod carried the yanks into the playoffs and without him they wouldn’t have made it. that right there should be the reason why he is the MVP, not to mention those ridiculous numbers he put up.
SJ, thoughts on what it would take to pry Jenks away from Chicago?
the todd
November 20th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
not sure if it was posted but Tom Gage explains why he voted for mags and not arod ….
“I did it because I thought Ordonez was more valuable to his team than A-Rod was to his, but also for specific statistical reasons: such as the wide disparity between Ordonez’s batting average (.363-.314) and more so because Ordonez hit .429 with runners in scoring position compared to .333 by A-Rod.
To me, that was the separating proof of value right there. The Tigers were able to depend on Ordonez with runners in scoring position far more than the Yankees were able to depend on A-Rod. Yes, Rodriguez had all those home runs, the glamour stat. Plus he had 17 more RBIs than Ordonez, but only 17.
I think a 49-point difference in batting average and a 96-point difference in their averages with runners in scoring position, the clutch stat to home runs’ glamour, more than offset the obvious reasons to vote for A-Rod. â€
i still think arod carried the yanks into the playoffs and without him they wouldn’t have made it. that right there should be the reason why he is the MVP, not to mention those ridiculous numbers he put up.
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The fact that the Tigers didn’t make the Post Season with Ordonez and no way would NYY have made the Post Season without Rodriguez should have told them something.
I agree that if Pettitte returns and we add a couple solid arms to our bullpen that the Yankees will be set for 2008.
BUT, what happens if Pettitte DOESN’T return? That puts us in a far more compromised situation as it relates to our starting rotation. Its nice to have faith in the futures of Hughes and Chamberlain, but come on now, how many innings can they really give us? Then you have Wang and Moose, one of whom is completely unreliable.
So what happens?
Gage’s explanation was pretty simplistic.
Maggs raked with RISP. absolutely.
but why are we ignoring the times when A-Rod put HIMSELF in scoring position by hitting a HR?
why exclude those hits?
by definition, Gage is giving Maggs more credit for a single with a man on 2B than A-Rod is getting for a HR with a man on 1B.
seems kindof dumb, doesn’t it?
I doubt they are getting Jenks. Plus, I hear Torii Hunter is going to the White Sox.
If that’s true, that pretty much removes that deal from even the possibility stage.
The White Sox aren’t getting Orlando Cabrera and Torii Hunter and not keeping their closer. You get guys like this to make a run, not rebuild.
Back to the subject of Pete’s post for a sec…..
I think its pretty telling that Arod sought out numerous people for advice on what to do.
This wasn’t some grand scheme devised by Scott Boras. This was a situation that he badly handled and, for the first time in his life, Arod took control of his business life without Boras’ svengali influence.
Its not just talking to the Goldman Sachs people. When you ask Warren Buffet for advice, we are talking a whole different level of mentorship. We are talking about the guy who is the Arod of Business. He dwarfs Scott Boras.
Sure, he probably didn’t tell him anything other people weren’t saying but, the fact that it came from him gives the advice major league credibility.
Add to the fact that he also sought the advice of Mariano during the process and I think its safe to say he has turned a corner on the maturity scale.
Good for him. NY is where he and his wife always wanted to be. Just because his agent felt differently doesn’t mean he needed to follow his advice in this situation.
Jimmy Buffet says, “Just because we are growing old, doesn’t mean we are growing up”.
In this case, Arod actually “grew up” at age 32.
Better late than never.
SJ: That was an amazing post, ‘specially because it’s true.
But damn, if I had friends like Warren Buffet…
SJ44,
Good to see your comments. This is a bit off-topic. You mentioned you live in Miami. What’s your opinion about Dolphins, Hurricanes. Thank you
“BUT, what happens if Pettitte DOESN’T return?”
Well, since Cash is kind of operating as though Andy won’t, I’m sure he’s got a plan. They’re waiting to see if Johan is available, just like every other team. They have the pieces to go after him, and they’ll see what it’s going to take. If the price is too high, walk away. Sure, you want Santana, but if you’re going to have to fill 2B and the back of your rotation with journeymen and aging players for the next three years, is it worth it?
If they had dominant bullpen arms and a marquee CFer, it’d be a bit different. Trade Robbie and Hughes (and another piece) for Santana, sign Loretta or someone for 2B and go for it next year. But they’re not at that point.
If the Dodgers and Angels spend their chips on offense, and the Sox realize that they don’t want to give up their future CFer and only AAA pitching prospect for an SP they really don’t have room for right now…then the Yanks suddenly become the team offering the best package.
And, if Santana doesn’t become available this offseason at all…ok, look at plan B.
Does that mean I should start humming “Black Magic Woman” for good luck?
Or perhaps for wish-fulfillment?
Rebecca,
The great thing about being in sports, whether you are an athlete or a person who works in the industry, are the people you have the opportunity to meet and, in some cases, become friendly with along the way.
Sadly, so many people in this industry torch those relationships. They never cultivate them and, in times of need, they have nobody to draw on for clear, non-agenda laden advice.
Arod has all the trappings folks see when they define success. Money, fame, toys (like a Gulfstream IV Jet…estimated price tag, 45 million), an ungodly ability to play baseball, etc.
Yet, who can he go to for real advice? Somebody who doesn’t have a dog in the fight or isn’t looking for something in return?
In this case, Warren Buffet is one guy who sure as hell doesn’t need ANYTHING from Arod.
Good for him for being able to cultivate a relationship with somebody like that so he can get truthful, non-agenda laden advice.
If more people in the sports industry made friends instead of torching them with nonsensical behavior, perhaps we wouldn’t see so many stories of athletes who had it all and now have nothing.
Ed,
The Dolphins are a disaster and they haven’t even hit bottom yet.
The Hurricanes. If folks are patient and give Randy Shannon time, he will get the job done.
Hey, the basketball team is 4-0 and just won the Puerto Rico Tournament.
They may end up being the best team in South Florida sports this season! lol
Brian Cashman always has a Plan B and above all, he excels at not tipping his hand. He’s as cool as the other side of the pillow.
Yankees finally announced officially the coaching staff no news but here is the official release
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_.....8;c_id=nyy
SJ,
Are you a Phins/Canes fan? In 3years the Canes will win another NC….living down there you should know that they got all those recruits from Notrhwestern..
I’ve noticed a lot of talk about protecting 40 ppl…is it the 40-man roster? or a seperate 40 player protected list?…if it’s the latter, why even protect Giambi? who would take on that contract, and if they did, wouldn’t it be a good thing??
BTW, Andy MacPhail, in public comments, said he no reservations about dealing his players to teams in the AL East. Perhaps, he meant Tejada.
But if the Yankees offered the most for Bedard, why wouldn’t MacPhail consider it? Anyone familiar with the Orioles organization knows the Orioles, despite a promising pitching staff, are still years away from competing with the Yankees and Red Sox.
They have Markakis and a collection of age and mediocrity, especially if they choose to deal Tejada and Mitchell’s List of Communists names Aubrey’s Puff.
It’s good to see ARod growing up. One day, I hope to do the same.
What relievers are the ‘people in the industry’ hearing that the Yankees will target? Now that Mo’s back, I assume Joba will be in the rotation, you just can’t put him in the minors to build up innings. The winter meetings are going to be interesting, I;d love to see what Cashman has up his sleeve.
The Yanks should sign lefthanded relievers Ron Mahay and Jeremy Affeldt and righthanded reliever Scott Linebrink for a bullpen of Rivera, Mahay, Affeldt, Linebrink, Farnsworth, and Karstens w/ Ohlendorf, Ramirez, Sanchez, Rasner, Bruney, Britton, and Clippard et.al. battling it out for the final bullpen slot in spring training.
As for Pettitte, he may come back, he may not. Any chance the Yanks would take a flyer on Eric Milton? He’s a veteran lefthanded starter and Yankee farm system product who turns only 33 next August 4. While he has a career 5.01 ERA including an injury-shortened 2007 (0-4, 5.17 ERA in just 6 starts), has literally served up as many HR as he’s made starts (265), and was a complete 3-year $25M bust for Cincinatti (16-27), he showed durability in 8 of his 10 seasons: 26 or more starts 8X, 29 or more starts 7X, 32 or more starts 6X, 171 or more IP 7X, 200 or more IP 4X, 157 or more SO 4X. He wasn’t ready for the majors in 1998-99 but he reeled off three decent seasons with Minnesota 2000-02 before an injury-shortened 2003 (3 GS). He won 14 games with Philly in 2004 before being a bust for Cincy. I’d offer him a year and $1M with incentives based on GS and IP. Low-risk high-reward. Maybe he’d be willing to accept that to return to the organization he started with. Considering he stole $25M from Cincinatti, a mil is all I’d offer him and if some team is desperate and stupid enough to give him a year or more at $2M or more per, fine. Even if he gave the Yanks a good April before losing it in May, hey, he only cost a mil and someone would take on his remaining pithy salary, unless he (doubtfully) accepts an assigment to AAA.
whozat,
I agree with you. Trust me when I say that I don’t think we HAVE TO do something if Pettitte doesn’t return in the way of trading.
My only concern is limiting the number of innings that Hughes and Chamberlain are allowed. We don’t want to blow out the arms of our future, but I am sure Cashman knows this.
There also has to be some kind of mid-level arm available that wouldn’t require the Yankees to give up Hughes, Cano, etc. Not sure who that would be, but certainly there is someone.
kd,
Don’t worry about it. Growing up’s overrated.
boo this man!
What people say publicly is a whole lot different than what they do.
Also, Peter Angelos, not Andy McPhail, owns the Orioles. He won’t ever allow Eric Bedard to go to the Yankees.
Publicly, its smart to say you will trade with anybody. Why limit yourself in terms of making other teams think you will have no issues dealing within your own division?
However, until he does it, take it with a grain of salt.
I would be shocked if the owner of the Orioles allows his most valuable commodity to traded to the Yankees. That would be shocking.
Brian
November 20th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
I’ve noticed a lot of talk about protecting 40 ppl…is it the 40-man roster? or a seperate 40 player protected list?…if it’s the latter, why even protect Giambi? who would take on that contract, and if they did, wouldn’t it be a good thing??
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It’s THE 40 man roster. In order to drop Giambi from the 40 man roster, they’d have to release him and pay up 26 million on his guaranteed contract and buy-out clause.
See, the fun thing about being a Jets fan is that we’re not the Dolphins, however, everyone says if the Dolphins win a game, it’ll be against us…
…or in the best case of poetic justice ever, against the Pats
=D
I wouldn’t go overboard spending big dollars on the bullpen.
To me, that’s fools gold. Teams do it every year and they end up eating a lot of money.
Linebrink? I’d pass. He seems to be a guy ripe for a big deal and end up being a bust. If Kevin Towers is dealing relief pitchers, it tells me Linebrink is on the downside.
I’d bring back Vizcaino and use him more intelligently than the way Torre used him. He killed him at the end of the year this season and the poor guy was on fumes for the playoffs. Just a HORRIBLE job of managing a valuable bullpen arm.
Mahay? Interesting guy. I have always liked his arm and competitiveness. Perhaps, not being used as much as he was in Texas, and playing for a winner, could be the thing that makes him an effective lefty specialist.
Affeldt? Up and down on him. Great arm but is wildly inconsistent.
If it comes down to Mahay or Affeldt, whomever is the cheaper deal, that’s who I chose.
Guys like Ohlendorf, Veras, Humberto Sanchez (could be ready by May) and Mark Melancon will also be in the mix.
Here is a name to keep an eye on….Scott Patterson.
The Yankees just put him on the 40 man roster. He’s a guy who could emerge in the bullpen if he has a solid spring.
He’s 6-7 with two different types of fastballs. Hitters seem to have a hard time picking up the ball from his delivery.
He’s been a journeyman guy. Precisely the type of guy who sometimes turns out to be a very effective arm in the ‘pen.
Eric Milton is not worth the roster spot
Green Beret 7,
And that’s bad because…?
Just kidding. I know you don’t kick a $26M side of beef to the curb.
Alex has posted another entry onto his website. This makes 2 in over a week (seems to be using this forum a bit more recently). This one was about MVP Award. You can go to http://www.arod.com
Canes fan, not a Dolphins fan. In fact, if the Dolphins go 0-16, I will do the reverse of the ’72 Dolphins (who toast after the last undefeated team loses every year) and have my own champagne toast.
Mel, I’ll let you know if I ever get there.
I thought Sanchez would be throwing only on flat ground by spring training and would need a few months of work to get back to pitching shape? I’d love to see him in the fold, Giambi said he had a great arm last spring. We gotta bring back the Viz, an limit his innings.
Also, a lot of the bullpen abuse last year (and only last year) was due to all of the injuries in the starting rotation, the AA pitchers we ran out there only lasted 4 or 5 innings. Hopefully this year we can consistently get 6 or 7 from the starters. That makes for a much better team.
Also, I have a general question. Why does everyone put Farnsworth in the mix? For trade value? The money? If he’s as ineffective as he was last year, drop him and move on. The Viz did a better job.
I’m not so sure we should go after Linebrink.
After seeing how Cash and the staff have done with our 1st round picks, I’m not sure I want to give one away for Linebrink who by many accounts could be on the wrong side of his career as a set up man.
I’ll give up a pick for the likes of Joe Nathan or Johan as a FA. But I’m not sure a middle reliever with some question marks is worth the gamble.
I wish we had a shot at Kerry Wood, but I think his heart is in Wrigley. I’d hate to convince him with money to come here if he really wants to stay a Cub.
With all this talk about him still wanting to start though, I don’t know how we would use him unless we decided to put Joba back in the pen and give Wood a chance to win a rotation spot which makes little sense.
I just don’t want to see the team to jerk Joba around.
Part of me thinks Joba is the next Yankee closer and we’re idiots to ignore that, but then the mere idea of a power throwing ace leading our rotation is just too good to pass up.
I don’t envy the Yankees since the way they choose to use him will always be 2nd guessed.
mel
November 20th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Green Beret 7,
And that’s bad because…?
Just kidding. I know you don’t kick a $26M side of beef to the curb.
_____________________________________________________
Not sure Giambi could be moved anywhere without a forklift.
The talk of who’s available and cheap is heavily left handed, including Affeldt, who would be my choice, Joe Kennedy, starter/reliever, another one I’d take, and Herges, who’s looking at 2-3 years, but, more of a Vallone type career, or Mahay. All are lefties and, only Mahay is a compensation pick Class B, sandwich pick). None cost anything but money. Vizcaino, I’d bring back. Nothing else except for trading for relief pitchers, like McDonald of Chicago, Fuentes or Marte.
kd
November 20th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Mel, I’ll let you know if I ever get there.
I thought Sanchez would be throwing only on flat ground by spring training and would need a few months of work to get back to pitching shape? I’d love to see him in the fold, Giambi said he had a great arm last spring. We gotta bring back the Viz, an limit his innings.
Also, a lot of the bullpen abuse last year (and only last year) was due to all of the injuries in the starting rotation, the AA pitchers we ran out there only lasted 4 or 5 innings. Hopefully this year we can consistently get 6 or 7 from the starters. That makes for a much better team.
Also, I have a general question. Why does everyone put Farnsworth in the mix? For trade value? The money? If he’s as ineffective as he was last year, drop him and move on. The Viz did a better job.
_______________________________________________________
If NYY had had a bullpen that went deeper than two people over the last 6 years or a rotation that went more than 2 deep and longer than 5.2 innings, Torre wouldn’t have used Proctor and Vizcaino as much. You couldn’t depend on the rest of them. Farnsworth only every other day, for one inning at a time, not counting the times he’d sit out a week because of his back.
GreenBeret7,
It’s like, “Why wouldn’t we try to scrape the last of the meat off the $26M ham bone before we toss it?”
Hopefully, Giambi will show up in shape (hopefully with a hair cut) and have a monster contract year.
GreenBeret7, thanks,
I thought it WAS the 40-man roster, but i questioned it. Thanks for your help.
Brian
November 20th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
GreenBeret7, thanks,
I thought it WAS the 40-man roster, but i questioned it. Thanks for your help
_______________________________________________________
No problem. My pleasure.
Girardi spoke with MMD & said he wants to see what he can do with Farnsworth, citing their relationship in Chicago.
mel
November 20th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
GreenBeret7,
It’s like, “Why wouldn’t we try to scrape the last of the meat off the $26M ham bone before we toss it?â€
Hopefully, Giambi will show up in shape (hopefully with a hair cut) and have a monster contract year.
______________________________________________________
I’m affraid NYY is going to get the 2004 and 2007 version of Giambi.
SJ,
I hope you are right about the ‘canes. I hate to see them lose so many games.I moved to Florida 1979. I am used to see the team win not lose. These last few years have been rough. Thanks
Heard on the radio that Long is back as hitting coach, Dave Elisand is pitching, Pena is back. I’m not sure about the rest.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime
November 20th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
“See, the fun thing about being a Jets fan is that we’re not the Dolphins, however, everyone says if the Dolphins win a game, it’ll be against us…
…or in the best case of poetic justice ever, against the Pats”
Hey Rebecca…congratulations on the Jets win against the Steelers. I couldn’t help but make a couple observations about your posting. I think the Jets blowing the whistle on the Pats early in the season was one of the best things that could have happened to the Pats. Say what you want about Belichek (spelling?) he is a master at motivating his team. Many people said the Pats were only winning because of the cheating and so he has been on the mission to show otherwise. And when Don Shula makes comments about placing an asterisk by the Pats record it only adds fuel to the fire and the motivation. Thank you Shula for helping the Patriots not become complacent.
The Pats just beat the Bills at Buffalo by 46 with Brady and Moss sitting out most of the fourth quarter. I think the Pats upcoming games against the Jets and the Dolphins at home will be some of the most one sided games in the history of the NFL. In fact some national sport show commentators are speculating that the Pats will beat the Dolphins by 72 points in reference to the 72 Dolphins. Sounds crazy but might just happen.
The poetic justice for Patriot fans is that our first round draft pick was taken away for next year but we do have San Francisco’s first round pick and that pick figures to be one of the top four picks of next year.
You know, a name that intrigues me for the bullpen is Kerry Wood. I have no idea whether he’d accept a job in a set-up role or wish to leave Chicago. Perhaps, he and Girardi cultivated a relationship the Yankees could exploit.
Girardi seems determined however to remedy Farnsworth and to restore him to a prominent role. The only problem is that Farnsworth’s principal shortcoming is not mechanical, it’s psychological. He’s great when the pressure diminishes.
As an ardent Dolphins fan– I was at the Buffalo game and will be at the Jets game– I can promise they will NOT go 0-16. They’re not nearly as bad a team as their record would suggest.
Jennifer, Bobby Meacham will be the third-base coach, Rob Thomson the bench coach, and Mike Harkey the bullpen coach. Meacham and Harkey were with Girardi in Florida.
This from the Star-Ledger.
Hello, Ray… (in my most menacing Newman voice)
Was Farnsworth really that much better in Chicago than he’s been for us? How much better can he be?
Kill Schill- I can see the Dolphins winning two games. They can definitely beat the Jets and beating the Bengals in Week 17 is also a possibility, plus Ricky Williams will be back in the fold. My father is a HUGE Dolphins fan, but he hates Ricky!
I just don’t think that Kerry Wood will leave Chicago. There’s been a rumor that the Cubs have talked about moving Ryan Dempster into the rotation. Wood could fill the void at closer for the Cubs. I still hold out the tiniest, slightest bit of hope that he will sign with the Yankees and move into this bullpen, though.
Hi Mel! (with the menacing Newman voice) lol
I think Fransworth was good in Alanta before he came to us.But we all know about those 4 runs in the bottom of the 9th in a game Atlanta was winning 6-2 in the ALDS.I think it was a grandslam by Berkman.But we all knew Fransworth was bad in pressure situations.
ray,
Tough loss the other night
Look out! The Lake-men cometh!
Hey Mel
Well we all knew they wouldn’t go undefeated. Your Lakers have been looking pretty strong lately. Do you think Kobe will be there all year?
Ray: Hah!
My friend and I are in agreement that the Jets’ poor season is purely the result of the odd year/even year rule.
That is: Bad in 07, good 06, bad 05, good 04, etc…
J-Dawg: C’mon, I got more faith in you than that!
Rebecca,
I think the Jets are a better team than their record would indicate but interesting theory about the odd year/even year rule.
Ray,
Yes, I think he’ll stay. Chicago (top of his list) played putrid. The Laker bench (73 points) almost outscored the Bulls (78 points).
Winning is all that Kobe cares about and no matter what he says, he likes LA. He just wasn’t patient enough to see if the kids would grow up. And according to the early returns they have.
But that Celtic trio is monstrous. I’m hoping they wake up and remember that this is the 21st century and they’re not supposed to be that good.
Rebecca- I’m just kidding around. Just for you, I hope that the Jets win the rest of their games EXCEPT for the December 23rd game!
Last night’s game was a bummer, my Titans’ defense is hurting!
congrats to Jimmy Rollins for winning his much deserved MVP
Wow. Congrats to Rollins. He called in the Spring. The Mets thought he was on drugs.
Jimmy Rollins edged out Matt Holliday by a margin of 17 points. Rollins got 16 first place votes, while 11 went to Holliday. Undoubtedly a closer vote than A-Rod’s victory yesterday!
if anyone is curious…. Jesus Montero is tearing up winter ball, .397, .488, .706 line, hitting 6 HR’s and playing good defense. granted this is the junior league, but the numbers are still great for someone his age.
whoops. forgot to give credit. hat tip to pending pinstripes.
Because of Rivera’s new contract, guys like Joe Nathan and Francisco Rodriguez will be cashing in next year at this time. I hope the NYY makes a run at K-Rod, whether he sets up or closes…
I guess Mariano can’t be expected to be the the closer the entire duration of his new, three year deal…
Thanks Guy Incognito
Did anyone else read the article in the Times about the crap that goes on at half time at the Jet games. I am disgusted! First off there is no way those are real Jet fans. How could they be standing in the stairway not watching the half time show, when the All time great Jet Curtis Martin was honored. Second whoever they are they are vile pigs, and should lose thier tickets.
Was just looking at a great site, the ‘trade central’ section of baseball america, listed in Pete’s favorite sites…
A little trivia anyone? Does anyone remember who the Yankees got in return (two players) when they traded Robin Ventura in 2003?
What a deal… considering the use they got from them
Ray: The difference between last year’s Jets and this year’s is that last year we made those bottom-of-the-ninth type plays. Many of our games have been close…we had large leads against the Giants and ‘Skins as well.
J-Dawg: Much better
Jennifer: I only get the Times Sat and Sun, what happened?
Cashman really needs to work on the bullpen. I like the young arms he has there like Ohlendorf, Ramirez, Bruney, etc but we really need a dependable lock down 8th inning guy and a lefty.
Isn’t this a baseball/Yankee blog?
Who cares about a terrible 2 win team like the Jets?
Find the lohud football blog.
pete fornatelle-famous rock dj on w/mike/maddog
Nicky F:
Lighten up.
We’re all Yankees fans. Well, in deference to Ray, most of us
Wasn’t Scott proctor and Bubba Croby in the deal?
Rebecca they harass women in to flashing them. Read for yourself. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11.....ref=sports
Shame on the Jets for allowing this to take place, in the name of free speech!! How about the right of women to be able to walk and not be yelled at.
shamus…proctor and?? crosby?
“I guess Mariano can’t be expected to be the the closer the entire duration of his new, three year deal…”
I don’t think the Yankees felt this way when they offered 15 million a season for the entire three years.
Mo will close the entire contract.
Go lighten up on a Jet blog Rebecca.
2 win, scrub, snitch team
Go PATS.
excuse me ? the people on this blog are like family, we will talk about watever the hell we want until Pete gets back
Don’t assume Mo closes all three years.
He may be better in the 8th next yr when they sign Nathan or K-Rod.
They got Bubba Crosby and Scott Proctor for Ventura.
“Mo will close the entire contract.”
Not if he’s not getting the job done he won’t. He’ll be given the job to lose, certainly, but if he’s not getting the job done…
Brandon (Proud supporter of “ALEX BEING ALEX”)
November 20th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Isn’t this a baseball/Yankee blog?
Who cares about a terrible 2 win team like the Jets?
Find the lohud football blog.
excuse me ? the people on this blog are like family, we will talk about watever the hell we want until Pete gets back
You really need a life, Brando.
Kill me if I call anonymous people from a blog my family.
Jennifer:
Ugh!
That is disgusting. Just remember, most Jets fans aren’t like that…
YES! Proctor and Crosby… What a deal…
I, in a way, miss them both. Bubba, I would contend, earned his ‘stripes. Same with Scotty, and all the work he did.
I’m sure Scott Proctor’s arm started to twitch in pain as soon as the reports of Torre coming to town to manage surfaced.
Nicky F:
Just remember, if it wasn’t for us, Bledsoe would still be starting and Brady would be warming a bench somewhere else…
I do respect the jets for one thing.
Their fans are hilarious.
I love how they make like its Mardi Gras to every female walking by.
Class acts.
Why not try Montero at first this year? Im not confortable having Giambi or Duncan there. He seems to carry a big bat everywhere he goes and his defense cant be worse than the two. Does anyone know if hes going to get a look in spring training?
has there been a more overplayed joke than the Proctor-Torre coming to the Dodgers one?
Its great…like Worldcom and martha stewart to the clink jokes…
Montero is a catcher.
That is where his value is. That is where you leave him.
And you don’t mess with his development.
You can find 1b any place.
If you’re looking for youth at 1b in the system try Miranda.
Montero is a catcher. Maybe you mean Miranda?
And lawyer jokes, and jokes about the Challenger and CHristie McAuliff and Hellen Keller. Scott Proctor/Joe Torre jokes…
Isn’t Montero 18 years old,or close to that?
The Jets don’t even have their own home field.
They play at Giants Stadium!
LOL.
S.o.S.27
November 20th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Why not try Montero at first this year? Im not confortable having Giambi or Duncan there. He seems to carry a big bat everywhere he goes and his defense cant be worse than the two. Does anyone know if hes going to get a look in spring training?
_____________________________________________________
Montero is barely 18, and a partial season in the Gulf Coast League is good enough reason for him to not be in NY, except with Staten Island, other than never having played first base.
Rosenthal’s latest has the Dodgers as the front runner for Cabrera. It’ll require a package of LaRoche, Kemp, and Kershaw, which is huge. If they trade Kemp, they’ll look to lock up Aaron Rowand to play CF.
I’m looking at the Angels package, and i’m just not overwhelmed like i am when i see what the dodgers are offering.
They are going to give Duncan 400 at bats. At 1b, RF, DH.
With his power and the way he feasts on lefty’s he could be a real valued weapon.
Then next year they can sign Texeira.
LOL !!! this is how I know your either Red Sox fan or new to the blog !! , you can’t even quote me
The Dodgers aren’t offering that package.
That’s the package Florida wants.
A little different there.
Who wouldn’t want LaRoche, Kemp, and Kershaw???
Those are 3 of the top 15 prospects in the game!!
Brandon:
Are you 15?
Or 16?
Relax, bub.
Rebecca that would be jumbo elliot right?
Nicky F don’t lump all jet “fans” with those low class morons. Like I said if they were Jet fans they would be sitting in their seats to honor the greatest Jet. Not acting like 17 year old boys.
The Yanks haven’t improved this off season. Yet. They need more pitching. Starters and bullpen. You can’t rely on 3 21 yr olds to pitch 180 innings each and win 15 games.
Andy, you do realize that this is Miguel Cabrera, right? Prob the best, pure, young RH hitter in the game?
LOL NEWBIES…oh and was I talking to you ?
You don’t see that kind of behavior at Pats games.
Those Jet fans define class. And supposedly it has been going on for years. Like a tradition. You should be proud.
just curious…what are the ages in here right now>?
Clay Buchholz jokes still crack me up. It’s not like he killed anybody, but still…
Turn Two. You realize he’s 2 yrs away from free agency and these 3 prospects are 6-7 yrs away and all top shelf, A level prospects? And Kershaw is now the minors top pitching prospect???
Way too much value to give up. Especially giving up the minors top 3b prospect and an outfielder that is a future all star in Kemp.
mel..what is the bucholz joke?
30
It has to be a lot of high school age kids in here. With how it degrades so much into name calling and insults. I feel old at 38. I’m crusty. I saw Stump Merril manage.
jennifer: Yep
Marc: 21 =)
i remember stengel
Nicky Get off your high horse. You don’t label an entire fan base based on what some drunken idiots were doing. Should we label the entire Red Sox fan base because a few Red Sox fans were saying cruel things to Jorge’s son a few years back?
Jennifer:
C-Mart the “greatest Jet?” I beg to differ:
-Siupeli Malamala
-Browning Nagle
-Bernie Parmelee
-Cary Blanchard
-Lou Benfatti
If there was a basement in the Football HOF in Canton, these five superstars would surely be enshrined in it.
I am between 25 and 30.
why are they talking rock n roll for over an hour on m&md?
another slow sports day i guess, when is ST?
marc: Oh, c’mon, that’s not that helpful
Give us a year!
If the Dodgers are intent on making a go of this and by signing Torre it looks like they are (they didn’t bring him on to develop young players) they will find a way to to get Cabrera and a top starter. Bedard, Haren, Santana, etc.
They have the means to get both because they have major prospects especially major league ready guys.
Hey Guy,,,ever hear of Broadway Joe???!!!
The Yankees finished a mere 2 games behind Boston in ’07, won 94 games while scoring 968 runs and are bringing the same offensive team back this year (minus Cairo/Minky/Phelps) getting starts at first, therefore they don’t have to get any better with their offense. They are more than good enough.
Pitching wise Igawa,Rasner,Chase Wright, Pavano, and whoever else will not be getting any starts. Moose pitching for his pitching career will probably rebound. The young trio will be making anywhere from 20 to 30 starts each, again this should make the pitching staff MUCH better than last year, even moreso if Andy comes back.
Thirdly it is November 20, Pitchers and Catchers don’t show up for another 3 months. Isn’t it far to early to be predicting how much better or worse this team will be next year?
Who wouldn’t want LaRoche, Kemp, and Kershaw???
No kidding… Seems like a lot if they are getting a fat 3B, eating and partying his way poss to a return to a corner OF position, or maybe even 1B, with two years to free agency. Unless the can lock him up early.
But, I see Cabrera as more of a 1B, DH… in the AL, feasting on fastball pitchers.
I still am on the fence about a big trade for a SP. I think they should give the kids one full year, see what they got, and then go after a free agent ace next year, a la Santana or Sabathia… if they don’t sign extensions, that is…
You can’t be a Jet fan and not know Broadway Joe.
That’s like being a Yankee fan and not knowing Babe.
becca…don’t want to scare you
mattingly + berra
Not if your a Knicks fan
Guy Incognito I wasn’t a fan to see them play, heck I probably wasn’t even alive. Maybe I should say. C-Mart the greatest Jet in my lifetime.
is that brandon being brandon again?
according to m%md, the knicks don’t exist in NY
marc,
I’d ask if you’re living under a rock, but I just remember that you’re living in France, right?
Clay Buchholz is famous for his no hitter as rookie this year for Boston.
We ALL congratulated him and then promptly began to make all kinds of cracks about his criminal history.
He was busted for stealing 27 laptops from a school when he was in high school. Just looked in Wikipedia, but they purged the info.
We cracked up on it for days, but got scoldings from Boston fans that we were taking away from his grand achievement. Pete got flamed from Boston fans for being unprofessional. Look in the September 1st archives. It went on for days. Good times.
no that’s Brandon being pissed at the Knicks regime for letting this turn into a 3 ring circus
Of course I know who Joe Namath is.
The fact that none of you know the greatness of Browning Nagle and Cary Blanchard is the real sin.
It’s like being a Yankee fan and not knowing Kevin Mmahat or Torey Lovullo.
raymag,
yanks aint goin nowhere if they dont address their 8th inning problem
Broadway Joe?
Isn’t he the guy that drunkenly made out with Suzy Kolber?
I can hear the chants at the Stadium now when this ‘phenom’ comes to town…
“LAP-TOP, LAP-TOP, LAP-TOP!!!”
mel,
excuse me for not being up on this pertinent info.
raymag,
You’re nuts if you think they don’t need to get better pitching.
Did you not watch the playoffs? Great pitching wins.
Sorry guys I meant Miranda. Get those two confused everytime.
So does this mean they are not going to use firstbase as a defensive position, but more as an offensive one? NO PHILLIPS OR MIENKTAVICH? Dont like the sound of Giambi throwing to second. Please Duncan surprise me and bring some D with you this spring.
brandon,
the knicks and isaih are a sham but i still root for them
Marc, on Buchholz he started at a young age
link
Brandon for being someone who supposedly knows how to work this blog, you didn’t post a link, just the word link
Just kidding you.
There is nothing good about Browning Nagle.
Watching Favre every week knowing he was picked one spot ahead and the Jets were salivating for him KILLS ME.
woops try # 2, on Buchholz he started at a young age
link
Marc,
That was a joke, not an insult. I’m not saying you lived under a rock. I simply remember that you lived in a foreign country. All good?
Great job, Brando.
You can take the foot out of your mouth now.
that kid’s smile is disturbing
It has been worthless the past few seasons what we have done at 1b. Giving away outs at an offensive position is ridiculous. We should have an even better lineup than we do.
mel,
its ok i live in the state of confusion
Say what you want. I’d like to have Bucky on the Yanks.
Jimmy:
Come on! Didn’t you enjoy all those screen passes to Terance Mathis?
Today’s Jets fans don’t even know how bad things can get…1992-96 was sooo much worse.
brandon, is that a picture of you at your computer?
being brandon?
If the Dodgers trade those players for Miguel Cabrera, for those players, there is no way they let him get to free agency.
it’d be the same with Cabrera as it is with a trade for Johan Santana.
One of the best things that came out of the Rich Kotite era is Wayne Chrebet.
if you say so, but that kid doesn’t have my skin color
that’s the problem, nothing changes if the Knick fans bay them, the regime stinks and it needs a massive makeover, GM, assistants, Jim Dolan can’t stay blind to this anymore, but it is his call
jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge
November 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
One of the best things that came out of the Rich Kotite era is Wayne Chrebet.
WOW.
No real jet fan ever, ever says anything good came from the Kotite era. Nothing.
Chrebet came after. Forget everything about Kotite.
dolan doesnt care if they win
Jennifer-
Don’t forget Bill Parcells.
I often wonder what might have been had Pete Carroll decided to stay on for more than one season, but Tuna was, in the end, a preferable option.
Does anyone remember why Hess hired Kotite in the first place? He said something like “I’m 80 years old! We need to win now!” Poor Leon. Richie killed him.
as long as isiah lets him party with him
exactly and if Dolan doesn’t care then we damn sure know Isiah Thomas doesn’t care
Brandon is the smartest 6 year old I know. K
No seriously Brandon, why do you have a picture like that for?
Does anyone know the name of the short stop that we drafted this year. Supposidly he didnt want to sign in the bigs. If im not mistaken he had been committed to Rice. Is he playing right now? Can he be the one to take Jetes spot in a couple years? Thanks.
I did actually watch the playoffs and the Indians did not beat the Yankees because of so called “great” pitching.
Secondly, the game where the Indians did get great pitching the Yankees still could have won if Clueless Joe pulls Joba off of the mound in the ninth….but I digress.
Thirdly you are nuts if you don’t think that a pitching staff of Wang/Joba/Hughes fully healthy/Kennedy/Moose/(hopefully Pettitte)- will not be better than Pettitte/Old as hell Clemens/Wang/Moose/and a combination of 6th and 7th starters.
Again, it’s still only November 20th so I’m sure Cashman will do his best to add more pitching help between now and the beginning of the season.
Knicks. Jets.
Any other terrible teams you people want to discuss on a Yankee blog?
At least chat about good, exciting teams.
This title could be a poll question. My answer would be: No.
sos,
replace jeter in a couple years? how will he eclipse rose’s record?
S.o.s – Angelini
Jeter switching positions offcoarse. I think first base. Less wear and tear than centerfield.
SoS, I was google searching for Buccholz lap top because I remember a pic of him w/ a bag of lap tops edited it was hilarious but I came across that pic in the search I guess someone change the address of it..
Isiah pulls them off the floor for not practicing hard. I saw them practice at hofstra and they were lackadaisical at best. Isn’t this his fault? He seems to be imploding.
it’s never his fault
The Indians pitched better than us. Flat out.
Carmona was awesome. Betancourt ditto. Perez even better. Even Paul Byrd outdueled our “ace”.
You’re wrong. Great pitching wins titles. Just check Boston. Their last seven wins all came from starters. Papelbon-Okajima were unhittable.
If we don’t find more and better pitching we’re in for the same heartache in October.
It’s a dysfunctional food chain for the Knicks. Marbury has pictures of
Now I know Brando is 12. He still cares about the Knicks in the Dolan Era.
Thanks raymagnetic,
Is he playing winter ball?
Star??!!Bury is starting again
Larry Brown had the right idea.
But the wrong team.
Great starting pitching wins championships. When we won we had aces in every game. Now? I’m pretty sure Joba and Hughes will be those guys. Wang will be a capable 3. We, and every other team, need that ace. Santana would be nice. Putting him with Joba and Wang would be a real nice rotation in ’08.
what the hell are you talking about ? or trying to ensue here …
Talking about the Indians, they just picked up a Japanese relief pitcher with 200 saves. POLL- Will he succeed or bust?
What about you Andy? Will you be back?
Without your favorite Rocket?
Marc, they chose Marbury over Steph, and when Larry Brown was fired they took half his remaining salary because he broke the Knicks media rules, which is why IT who is clearly trying to get fired is saying everything is roses here
Knick fans have seen two of the worst coaching jobs of the past 50 years. Brown was downright awful his one yr. Dif lineups everyday. Playing productive players for 10 minutes. Not getting anything out of his young guys. Isiah took a 2-1 team and exploded it with the stupid move of benching his best guard for no reason. And replacing him with his 12th man who was DNP-Coaches Decision in every game before that. Real smart. So what did they do after that? They haven’t won a game. And have been blown out in almost every loss.
Look on the bright side. At least the lottery pick isn’t another teams this year.
narbury aver steph?
brown was as dumb as a fox.
If I’m back and they grab a Mr. Santana, then wow. It would be late 90′s all over again. And not Jaret Wright-Brown-Pavano-Igawa. Puke.
I’d sign Mahay and Affeldt cuz they’re better than Henn, Villone, and Myers and I want two lefties in the pen plus Vizcaino who does well against lefties as well. Also Affeldt has some experience closing so he’s an option to hold down the closer role if Mo falls to injury. Linebrink is a proven dependable workhorse (71 or more games a year the last four years) just like Vizcaino. His off year and the 12 HR he gave up in it doesn’t scare me, apparently the Yanks aren’t scared either cuz they’re looking into him. I’d re-sign Vizcaino, too, for a bullpen of Rivera, Vizcaino, Linebrink, Affeldt, Mahay, Farnsworth, and whoever wins the final slot in the bullpen out of spring training.
If the Yanks can spend $9M on guys who didn’t even pitch for them last year (Wright $4M, Vasquez $3M, and Johnson $2M), they can spend on some veteran relievers this year. Villone’s $2M will be off the books as well.
hmmmmm
Milton is worth the roster spot because the Yanks should have at least one lefty starter in the rotation which they don’t have if Pettitte retires and don’t give me Igawa, Igawa sucks. Milton is low-risk, high-reward. Give him April and if he really sucks, chuck him, he’s only a mil. I’m not keen on a rotation comprised of three kids with 16 M.L.B. starts combined (Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy) including 13 from one guy (Hughes), Wang, and hasbeen Mussina. I’m not too keen on Milton either but he is a veteran who’s been durable for most of his career. I view him as more of a “see what he can do” project than an all of 2008 guy. Give him April and if he’s good, keep him in there.
But will you be back without your guru rocket?
Brown should never have taken a dime because he didn’t coach. They are going to write books someday on his reign here. How to make 30 mill doing nothing. I don’t blame Dolan for not wanting to pay him.
SOS:
I say bust. A 33-year old closer with injury problems, whose career ERA (mostly as a closer) was 2.79, average BAA over the past three seasons was .272…and he is not a strikeout machine? I think you’re looking at another Kaz Sasaki.
So I guess I should clarify…he won’t be a Joba, but probably not an Igawa either.
I don’t believe Andy is contemplating retirement. It sounds like something Roger whispered in his ear.
You can’t sign both Mahay and Affledt. Well, you can but it isnt cost effective in price. Unless one is a Mike Stanton clone and not just a specialist type.
If you really want two lefty’s you sign one of them and make a trade for a Marte.
But I agree. Need a real good lefty.
“So does this mean they are not going to use firstbase as a defensive position, but more as an offensive one?”
the ONLY people who believe otherwise are the people on this blog.
eric,
red holzman has rolled over in his grave watching his Knicks go down.
I say my namesake comes back because why not? Who wants to sit on a couch all day long when he can play ball? He can sit on a couch when he has nothing left.
Yes on Milton,but only for the homerun derby in 08. Alex would be sure to win it if hes on the mound. Milton hasnt had a decent year forever. And thats in the N.L. A pitcher I would look into getting that could be a risk but high reward is Mulder. I wouldnt think he would cost much after his surgury. I didnt follow him this year but hes a lefty and proved that he could pitch in the A.L.
will this guy compete with borowski for a closers job in spring training, or was he signed simply to set-up?
The GM said set up. Let’s be honest. Betancourt should be the closer there.
Milton???
Who ever said that should be banned from posting for a week.
Marc, after one year you truly believe that ? he won 2 Eastern Conference titles and an NBA championship w/ Detroit and was in the NBA Finals the yr. before, the Knicks roster he acquired was a poor one and what Larry Brown does is he gets into a team then builds them.
A good example is Lou Pinella he had to get into the Cubs mental makeup and shake it up. Larry Brown’s problem was the GM/player relationship, Steph was the captain of this team and he butt heads w/ LB because they plainly couldn’t get along. If you look at this roster and the Knicks roster LB inherited there has been huge changes Isiah lets them iso , LB was more defense before offfense and then the locker room shut down on him
Larry Brown wasn’t a bum, the star player just didn’t follow him then the rest followed Steph.
They said he would set up Borowski. If he has that herky jerky japanese delivery, I think he could be good for a couple.
sorry but eric milton is a terrible idea … he has been awful in the NL. imagine him in the AL East. yikes. I think the yanks go after one relief pitcher via trade. The FA options are ok, but not worth giving out multi year contracts which they will demand. the yanks have learned their lesson from FA RP and have plenty of options to trade or use in the minors.
IMO this year will be a showcase for young minor league pitchers. they just have so many options, for starting and relief.
I concur. Maybe 2.
*sigh* Why do I even bother. Do you realize that when Boston played Cleveland the only starter with an ERA under 4 was Josh Beckett?
Do you realize that when Cleveland played the Yankees that only 1 of their starters had a quality start? That starter mind you loses the game if Joe Torre manages better and pulls Joba off the field the Yankees probably win that game and the series looks completely different, especially considering the fact that the Yankees won game 3.
Boston starters were horrible against Cleveland and I have no doubt in my mind they would have been even more horrible vs. the Yankees.
But everyone seems bent on the so called fact that GREAT pitching wins championships when in reality it’s a combination of good pitching and timely hitting.
“Milton is worth the roster spot”
You’re not getting a starting pitcher with a heartbeat for a million dollars. Not in this market. And Milton has had injury issues the last two years, AND he was terrible in the NL. Boo. So much boo. Nothing leads me to believe he’d be any better than Igawa. At least Igawa could strike guys out sometimes. If he can keep the ball down, he could actually be decent. Milton, there’s no upside there.
“Also Affeldt has some experience closing so he’s an option to hold down the closer role if Mo falls to injury.”
Affeldt walks a gazillion guys. Who cares if he’s a lefty or righty, we already have a bunch of relievers who can come on and walk two guys before they get two outs.
“If the Yanks can spend $9M on guys who didn’t even pitch for them last year ”
Who cares about money? I care about roster spots. I don’t want to waste roster spots for a couple years on more guys who walk everyone.
As for Linebrink, he’s probably going to get a long-ish deal, and his year scares me. Of course the Yanks are looking at him, they wouldn’t be doing their due diligence if they weren’t. But his numbers last season really don’t dictate giving him four years.
Can you elaborate. I think Philips and Doug did very good last year in covering alot of ground and saving runs. We have hitting in all other positions. We need some defense at first for those short throws or wild ones from Jeter and Arod.
forget about Milton absolutely not worth a a roster spot and Mahay would cost us a draft pick, I rather Oppenheimer work his magic through the draft than bring in Mahay.
I hope they revisit that offer of Farnsy to the Rockies for Morales..
Anyone care to speculate as to what players, if any, the Yankees will add or subtract on the 40-man roster by today’s deadline to finalize the protected players for the Rule 5 draft?
Perhaps I can answer some questions or clear up some confusion on this matter. As of approzimately 3:45 p.m. Eastern time, 11/20/2007, the Yankees 40-man roster as posted at their “official” website contained 36 players, the last addition being Scott Patterson on 11/16/2007. The 36 do not include Rodriguez, Rivera, Posada, Molina (or any catcher at all for that matter), Pettitte, Villone, Vizcaino, Mientkiewicz,or Clemens, for all of these are still officially free agents until they actually sign their contracts and have them approved by the Commissioner. The 36 DO include players like Pavano, Phillips, Rasner, Sanchez, and Brackman who were on the 60-day DL at the end of the 2007 season because the 60-day DL does not exist in the Hot Stove League and all of the formerly DL’d players are formally under contract for the 2008 season. Free agents are not eligible to have their contracts assigned in the Rule 5 draft because, by definition, a free agent has no contract to be assigned.
So, working from a present base of 36, between now and the start of the 2008 season, the Yankees will need to shoehorn in the free agents they choose to sign (including Rodriguez, Posada, Rivera, Molina, and possibly Pettitte and Vizcaino), add any net additions by trade, waiver, or by Rule 5 draft, while subtracting any net subtractions from the 40-man by trade,non-tender,waiver,release,or retirement, while keeping the number of players actually subject to signed and approved major league contracts at or under 40 at all times. Free agents who have accepted arbitration or cost-controlled players who may have their contracts either automatically renewed on March 1 or determined pursuant to arbitration are considered on the 40-man roster as if they had signed and approved contracts for purposes of this explanation and the roster rules.
To answer Pete’s concern about the delay in making the signing of Rodriguez, Posada, Molina, and Rivera official, the Yankees have proven themselves in the past to be quite masterful at dragging out the formal free agent signing process until they can find room on the 40-man roster. I expect this year to be no different. For example, suppose the Yankees moved swiftly and filled the four open spots on the 40-man roster this afternoon with Rodriguez, Posada, Molina, and Rivera. They would then be at 40 on the 40-man roster.
The problem is that, if there is a player under minor league contract in the Yankee system who may be eligible for the Rule 5 draft on 12/6/2007, that player may be lost in the draft unless he is protected by the Yankees adding his contract to their 40-man roster by the 11/20/2007 deadline. On the NYYFans Forum, I have identified 30 Yankee minor leaguers who I believe are theoretically eligible for the Rule 5 draft unless protected. For most of them, there is little or no chance that they would actually be taken in the major league portion of the draft; hence, no practical need for protection. Personally, I believe that the Yankees should protect Steven White and Jeff Marquez today. Some, like Mike Gardner, Steven Jackson, Jason Jones, Brett Smith, Eric Duncan, Marcos Vechionacci, and Justin Christian, are tough calls, but there is only so much room.
Some have suggested a Joel Shermanesque “scorched bottom” strategy which would involve releasing Pavano to clear one additional space. I have argued for months that there is no room for TJ Beam on the 40-man once we reached this point. The few spaces left on the 40-man and the need to add at least Rodriguez, Rivera, Posada, and Molina may hint that the Yankees are doubtful that Pettitte will come back. It may also hint that trade plans include exchanging quantity for quality.
brandon, what i meant was that he played dolan. he was a great coach when he coached professionals. when he saw all hope was lost he sabotaged the team and walked away with dolans cable money.
I guess jabrones like raymag think guys like Mussina and Igawa and Rasner are championship level pitchers. Not to mention Henn, Farnie and Villone in the pen. Yeah, that will certainly win these Yanks another title. Please. Great pitching wins these little things called championships.
The Sox SP was bad except Beckett in the ALCS? Well, the great bullpen made sure they didn’t get scored upon.
The timely hitting argument is just BS. Great pitching shuts down anything called timely hitting. So you get a timely hit with 2 outs and man on second. if your pitcher gives up 8 runs it doesn’t matter.
We have enough offense. Now we need pitching.
Brown is a great coach that totally laid down on the Knick job. You can’t make excuses for him. He was a disaster. At first i thought he was breaking the guys down to build back up but there was never, ever any building back up. He destroyed this team and set back the franchise. No one could coach worse than he did that year. Whoopi Goldberg could have done better. And he’s a Hall of Famer! It was a joke after a while.
any chance of mientkiewics coming back? he’s their best glove down there and arods buddy.
Regarding Andy, the most reliable starter on the team:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....nt_id=2304
Incidentally, Girardi is already showing he has his eyes on the prize. Trips to the Dominican to address low level prospects and personally meet with Mo, comments like these showing his perspective on Andy. Girardi is hungry….the other Joe is sunning himself in Hawaii, as he has during most winters these past years…
If you haven’t learned your lesson these past 6 seasons of losing in the playoffs that great hitting doesn’t beat great pitching than I weep for you.
eric,
this is why i say he did it on purpose.
bronx bomber,
you are correct sir
it’s amazing torre lasted as long as he did. i guess it’s a case of hank being hank.
I still think that Broadway Joe Namath will end up with Suzy Kolber.
torre got soft when he met guiliani in 01.
“If you haven’t learned your lesson these past 6 seasons of losing in the playoffs that great hitting doesn’t beat great pitching than I weep for you.”
did you actually WATCH the playoffs? Sabathia was flat out BAD in his start. The Yanks were getting themselves out. Carmona and their pen were good. Wang was TERRIBLE.
And, save Beckett, Okajima and Papelbon, the Sox pitching wasn’t good either. Matsuzaka was just bad. Schilling was bad against the Indians too.
So…I’m not sure what you’re talking about. If the Indians had “great pitching”, then how come the ALCS wasn’t a series of pitcher’s duels? How do you explain Schilling and Matsuzaka having ERAs of 5+ in the ALCS if the Sox’s pitching was great?
Could it simply be that the real issue is that Wang was simply (and unexpectedly) horrible, and that the offense (pretty much all of them) just cracked under the pressure of starting every game in a deep hole?
it was a natural progression for torre…bloated contracts, increasing social status/media reveration, the loss of valuable coaches (zim), and most importantly less talented pitching staffs.
*sigh* Again why do I bother.
You say great pitching shuts down timely hitting, however the Red Sox did not have great pitching when they faced Cleveland. That had mediocre starting pitching and 2 great relievers. However the Red Sox did score 30+ runs in the final 3 games which is the real reason why they beat Cleveland.
And of course you keep ignoring my basic premise that it’s November 20th and pitchers and catchers don’t report until February 14th.
I have no doubt in my mind that the Yankees will have a better bullpen next year when you factor in the their minor league system, you know the same system that produced the trio and whatever free agents they decide to pick up.
But there’s obviously no pleasing some people.
Upon further review, Joe Torre basically mailed it in for for his last 4-5 years. He got to be as predictable as Christmas. The energy Joe Girardi brings will be noticed in short order.
“Can you elaborate. I think Philips and Doug did very good last year in covering alot of ground and saving runs. We have hitting in all other positions. We need some defense at first for those short throws or wild ones from Jeter and Arod.”
if they wanted to bring back Mientkiewicz it wouldn’t be the end of the world. he did an ok job and he gets on base at a decent clip. i’d rather not, but i could live with it.
but you can’t run a player like Andy Phillips out there as your starting 1Bman.
watching last season, i saw that Wilson Betemit can play 1B just fine. and he is a vastly superior hitter to Andy Phillips.
Phillips is an ok bench player, but he is not a starting 1Bman in the major leagues.
hmmm,
Who will get most of the firstbase duties then. Giambi?Duncan?or Betimet? I would like it to be Wilson out of those 3(better glove). Still prefer to resign Doug. Have Wilson take Cairo’s place and Phillips back in the minors until an injury occurs.
Unless we can get Loretta for cheap and have him at first. Good bat and glove. Wont cost us much and just long enough to get our young guys up.
Girardi’s youthful energy does make Torre look bad at first glance, but we just need to realize they’re 2 different people with 2 different managing styles.
That being said, I’m glad that Girardi’s at the helm now to invigorate the team. As long as Joe G. treats everyone with respect, and nothing would indicate otherwise, then he’ll do great.
“If you haven’t learned your lesson these past 6 seasons of losing in the playoffs that great hitting doesn’t beat great pitching than I weep for you.”
i weep for people who grab onto soundbites with all their might and don’t accept that reality is a little more nuanced than this.
“Who will get most of the firstbase duties then. Giambi?Duncan?or Betimet? I would like it to be Wilson out of those 3(better glove). ”
if they don’t sign anyone else, i’d platoon Duncan and Betemit with Giambi getting 1-2 starts per week.
just don’t use Giambi when Wang or (hopefully) Pettitte are starting.
okajima was the key for sox in ws, why can’t we see that’s all we need. remember the days of nelson/stanton or even weathers /lloyd? we need a bridge.
also remember mo to wetteland.
Minky would be our best option, but there’s a waitlist to get time at 1st base as it is. Unless, Alex has Minky’s return as a contingency clause.
buy me a bridge hank
Who is the “we” that can’t see it. Not only can Cashman see it, but so can every other GM in the league.
Good relievers are hard to find…
Yanks are trying to develop some of these young guys into bridge relievers…they’re also rumored to be talking to Mahay, Linebrink, Jenks, and Cordero.
Cash knows the pen needs to be upgraded…there’s a long time between right now and the playoff push.
Yeah, I’m glad I’m a Nets fan.
We’re so used to losing it’s ‘oh, that’s nice’.
=D
why do other teams go out and get these bridge guys ? Plus we haven’t had a lefty out there since stanton. Unless you count Felix Heredia, lol.
where’s that confounded bridge?
now the fan has sterling and there talking broadway
the bridge blew up years ago…
sterling and suzan ought to go on bway w/kaye
Man I didn’t know Marte had a .089 against lefites for the Pirates.He must be a Type A player right.I hate to give up a first round draft pick for a reliever.
I’m also surpised not to here we aren’t in the mix for any of the Japanese guys.
The irony of Okajima? Not even the Red Sox realized what they had in him, barely used him in spring training, and they paid next to nothing to get him.
The moral of the story? Sometimes, you find what you need in the bullpen without spending big bucks.
The components are there for a very good bullpen.
Mo as the closer is a great start.
If they re-sign Viz, another step in the right direction.
Farnsworth? I will be interested to see what Girardi can do with him. He clearly feels he can “fix” him. Unless there is a deal for him out there that improves the team, why not take that shot? You can’t teach 98, with a 90 MPH slider. He gets along better with Girardi than Torre and 2008 is the last year of his deal. Meaning, you have a guy hungry to get another big payday. Sometimes, those factors lead to a big season for a player.
Ohlendorf, Veras and Ramirez have all shown signs of being good pitchers, with each guy needing more refinement on their secondary pitches. I think at least one of those guys will emerge as a 50-60 IP guy out of the ‘pen.
They will most likely sign a FA as the lefty specialist.
Three other guys, Scott Patterson, Humberto Sanchez and Mark Melancon may be guys that help this team at some point in the year. All three guys, for various reasons, are very intriguing.
I like the fact the team doesn’t have the slots set in the bullpen. Let competition take place and may the best guys win. That’s how you build good teams.
didnt sterling have sextuplets?
adrian,
maybe they have igawa on the brain
Marc I think he had triplets. And how young is his wife? John must be rich, that is the only reason I can figure.
Bruney is still on the 40 man roster to, SJ44.
Sox decision-makers were about as well-prepared in signing Okajima as they were in trading for Gagne.
Complete crapshoot….
“The irony of Okajima? Not even the Red Sox realized what they had in him, barely used him in spring training, and they paid next to nothing to get him.”
How about the irony of Lowell. Wasn’t he a tack on in the Beckett trade? Theo really does step in it sometimes and come out smelling like a rose.
Sterling likes the pettite chances!
jennifer, only triplets? heard he left his wife.
sterling is morty horowitz
mm&dog love sterling, it’s all show biz with them
why not bring suzan on?
I agree SJ44, the bullpen may just sort itself out during the exhibition games under the watchful eye of Joe Girardi. Many times, competition can be healthy. Key is still the lefthander that’s not likely to emerge from the system. It’s been a glaring weakness for several seasons and Brian Cashman needs to deal or sign for the best available.
“Man I didn’t know Marte had a .089 against lefites for the Pirates.He must be a Type A player right.I hate to give up a first round draft pick for a reliever.”
he is not a FA, they’d have to trade for him.
sj44,
Im not sold on Vizcaino. Who is he? The guy who struggled at the begginning of the year, the dominator in the middle or the crap shoot in the end. We dont need another Sturtz.(a couple good months and the rest batting practice)
I liked what I saw in Oelendorf and Veras though. Hopefully someone cheap in the farm steps in and surprises us. At least then if they regress were not stuck with long contracts like Farns.
That’s true BB. If Bruney can only get into his head control doesn’t come from trying to throw harder, he may be helpful.
Greg Maddox always talks about throwing softer when you lose the strikezone. Most guys go the other way. That’s why he is going to the Hall of Fame and other guys, with bigger arms, fall by the wayside.
Bruney’s problem is between the ears. Always has been. He sees pitching as a macho game of seeing how high he can get the radar gun to register. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help him get outs.
Overall, I will be fascinated to watch how Girardi-Eiland-Harkey handle the pitching staff.
The biggest complaint I had about Torre was his use/abuse of the pitching staff. Especially, the guys in the bullpen.
With a new regime, everybody starts with a clean slate. It will be interesting to see who takes advantage of this opportunity.
I really think, absent a lefty (whom they will probably add in free agency), the components are already in place for the Yankees to put together a very good bullpen.
The biggest key to a good bullpen? Having the starters go longer in games.
If that can happen this year, the Yankees will have a great bullpen because these guys won’t be so overworked.
so the reason the sox won was bexause okijima fell in their laps? talk about luck
cant believe their talking knicks
Vizcaino has had a much better career than Tanyon Sturze.
Let’s look at his struggles. Early in the year, Torre used him everyday, in a LOT of cold weather games, and blew the guy out.
When they shut him down for a bit, he got his sea legs under him, and he dominated. Especially when the weather got warmer.
The second half of the season? Torre used him 12 times in games in which they had leads of 4 or more runs. In other words, he abused him again, and the guy was on fumes going into October.
Just a horrific job of abusing a good arm.
Its all about managing arms properly in the bullpen. I think Girardi will do a better job in that area than Torre.
Viz also benefitted from Mariano’s tutorledge. I’d like to see that continue.
Any chance Igawa becomes a relief pitcher. He strikes out a lot of guys. Unfortunately he walks alot as well. Hes a lefty and who knows maybe with some minor adjustments maybe,just maybe he could be of use.
“so the reason the sox won was bexause okijima fell in their laps? talk about luck”
well, that and having 2 great hitters in Ortiz/Ramirez, a great closer, and a legit #1 starter.
it was a little more than luck.
also, it was one of their coaches who saw something in the way Okajima was throwing his change-up and “fixed” him.
so they deserve credit for that.
re: this whole needing power from the 1b slot thing; i’ve long thought that you should break apart the hitting and fielding parts of the game. when you are looking for hitters, you look at their spots in the lineup, and compare lead-off hitters verse lead-off hitters, cleanup vs cleanup, etc. who cares whether our 1b bats cleanup or 8th. i don’t have numbers/lineups in front of me, but how’d dougie m do against people hitting in the same spot in the lineup? not against other 1b.
it;s ironic that they have the answer in joba. if santana comes on board minds could change
Igawa is not a bad idea.Even though he does get lit up when pitching 5 or 6 innings he does have a lot of strikeouts.I think 1 inning work will make Igawa decent.
Will,
I like your point. When we won in the 90′s we had a third baseman with below 3rd baseman power. A courasel at left field and a catcher(girardi) who couldnt hit.
Now we replaced a defensive position(catcher)with a hitter. Third base with the best in the game. Left with 2 above average hitters. I think we can do with a defensive first baseman.
I’m sold on Viz, but I am not sold on BB or Igawa.
What’s it going to take to resign Viz?
I am intrigued by the possibility of Igawa as a lefty specialist, if and only if his problems last year were mechanical and not mental. I fear that they were both.
Having Joba Chamberlain pitch the 8th inning is a waste of his talent.
That would be like the Red Sox using Josh Beckett to set up Papelbon.
Joba has #1 starter written all over him. Those guys are more valuable than 8th inning guys. They are also almost impossible to find today.
The Yankees biggest problem in 2007 was the lack of a true #1 starter. Joba is the closest thing they have to a true #1.
If Andy comes back, and you have Joba, Andy and Wang as the Top 3 in the rotation, that makes the Yankees a MUCH better team in 2008.
I put Joba in the rotation and keep him there. In the rotation, he will be able to use his full arsenal of pitches.
If folks thought he was good out of the bullpen, wait until you see him starting. He will be dynamite because hitters will have a very hard time handling the full arsenal of pitches.
SJ – And you add Girardi and Eiland to the pitching mix, and I can wait to see what happens!!
I still wish you had your own blog…no chance?
I CAN’T wait…. geez. Wish I had that edit button.
Whoever said that the Yankees may be waiting to announce officially the isgnings of the big 3 to deal with the 40 man roster and rule V draft seems to have hit the nail on the coffin so to speak. See below with these additions it brings the roster to 40
The New York Yankees announced today they have signed right-handed pitcher Scott Patterson to a Major League contract and added catcher Francisco Cervelli and right-handed pitchers Jeffrey Marquez and Steven White to the 40-man roster.
Gayle,
It was me who said that.
But what is not clear to me is if they sign the big-3 before rule V draft, don’t they have to adjust the 40 roster again. Or may be they will wait announcing until the draft is done in the first week of December.
yes maybe they wait until after December 6th (it really is only an additional week) to do that although it seems sort of sneaky that way lol. Also I made a typo the press release said that it now made the roster at 39 not 40
“Now we replaced a defensive position(catcher)with a hitter. Third base with the best in the game. Left with 2 above average hitters. I think we can do with a defensive first baseman.”
And, yet, the team STILL struggled offensively for all of April and much of May.
There’s basically free offense at first base that the team is passing up. That’s dumb on one level, but when Alex is the only righty who slugs well, that’s a PROBLEM versus lefties and makes it an even worse idea to put a mostly-glove lefty at 1B most of the time. It was a problem last season, don’t kid yourself. The Yanks are hoping that Duncan can be the guy that provides that lineup balance. Personally, I’d feel more comfortable having a guy I’m more certain will provide .800 OPS in regular duty.
I’m not talking about a homer machine, I’m talking about a guy who’ll hit doubles with the occasional homer. Not an all-star, just a league-average guy.
Few things in the world sound sweeter than this sentence:
Dave Eiland is the Yankees’ pitching coach
BB also (Sorry all for the mulitple posts) but the way I read it and it may be incorrect is today is the last day to file reserve lists for all Minor League levels and Major Leagues and that since the Rule V draft is the 6th of December perhaps you cannot change your roster officially until after the 6th??
whozat, i understand what you’re saying, but when you say the team still struggled for offense early on, how’d we end up in terms of offense? We weren’t missing pieces early, the pieces we had weren’t performing. big difference.
I do believe we need to add another righty bat, be it through platoon, or whatever, but to be honest, i want to have a guy who can play 1b well.
Before you think I’m a quack, let me qualify myself as a former Division 1 college pitcher.
If Pettitte comes back, any chance Girardi looks to a six man rotation? This would help minimize innings on the young arms, keep Mussina sharp, and alleviate the toll on the bullpen arms. The starters could even relieve an inning on their throw day.
LaRussa revolutionized the bullpen and now everyone follows suit. This may be a proactive way for us to foster in our young arms, and not have to jeopardize the toll on their arms with the postseason.
Why is it that in the last several seasons there seems to be a distinct pattern of the Yankees starting out the season slow while the Sox start out the season hot.
As the season progresses usually the Yankees get hot and the Sox slow down. The problem for the Yankees this last year was simply that they dug themselves too big a hole at the start of the season.
I am just curious because this patterns seems to happen quite often and I am not sure why.
SJ u didn’t even mention hughes in that last post. people keep forgetting that before his injury he was the savior of the franhcise, remember “phil franchise” I love this kids potential and still think that he has just as much talent as joba. Hughes had a dynamite slider in high school and like most HS pitchers the yanks scrapped it from his arsenal for the curve. they have allowed him to throw in his bull pens and a few times during games. once he gets his change going, he will be a top of the line talent. don’t forget hes also younger than joba.
everyone assumes joba will be our Ace of the future, but let’s not forget about phil franchise. hes going to be something special as well.
Mike in sf
I like the idea but Mussina is a creature of habit. I think he would be the one who might struggle with this. Also Wang seems to be less effective with too much rest. His pitches flaten out. Lastly, with all these guys into their own numbers(due to them getting paid by what thier stats show), I couldnt see all of them agreeing to this. But if they did it would be good to have for the youngsters on the staff.
Plan b as MEL suggested before
Have one of the young 3 rotate starts. example Hughes 4 or 5 then Kennedy 3. Or have them rotate 3 in two spots.
“I banged my head against New York; New York didn’t bang me against the head. I felt like I made a lot of mistakes. I was trying to please everybody rather than do what made me happy.â€
?
huh? i don’t get that statement. furthermore, i do not have the warm and fuzzies about his return, sorry, I think it’s too little, too late. why should I believe this when he opted out the first moment he could after preaching garbage like this all year? I have every ‘reason to believe’ the 156 rbi’s were due to a hard push during a contract year; he’s got A LOT yet to prove still and I seriously question whether he can deliver when he’s needed most.
“whozat, i understand what you’re saying, but when you say the team still struggled for offense early on, how’d we end up in terms of offense? We weren’t missing pieces early, the pieces we had weren’t performing. big difference.”
Who cares how they ended up? Posada ended up having a career year at 36. Abreu and Cano hit at just a TORRID pace to get their numbers to a good level. ARod had a great year. Sure, Abreu and Cano will probably be more consistent next year. But Posada will also probably regress to his normal levels, and ARod could easily have a more normal season. And what of Damon and Jeter?
Point is that there just aren’t that many hard plays at 1B. It’s not that it’s EASY to play stellar 1B, it’s that having a non-stellar 1B just doesn’t hurt you that much – as long as he’s not letting throws get by him.
Against lefties, if Alex didn’t do it, pretty much no one did. That’s a problem. A more balanced lineup is more important to winning than a GG 1B.
Mike in SF: I see it as a distinct possibility, but I’m not sure Girardi would go for it.
Discussions about 6 man rotations seem to be in vogue these days. I know and respect that this is a Yankee blog, but just wanted to note that the Sox have been talking about the possibility of a 6 man rotation except for having Beckett go every 5 games.
“but just wanted to note that the Sox have been talking about the possibility of a 6 man rotation except for having Beckett go every 5 games.”
I’d heard that too. Thing with the Yanks is that I’ve heard Andy say he’s more comfortable (and thus better) pitching every five days, and the same with Moose. And we know that Wang pitches better with normal rest too. You can say “screw Moose and his comfort, he’d better do what they tell him!” all you want, but for guys who rely somewhat on feel (Moose and Andy), you get the best performance when they get into their rhythm.
So, they could basically figure out some way to rotate Joba, Phil and Ian through two slots, but they’d be going on inconsistent rest pretty much all the time. I don’t know if that’s a good way to maximize their performance either.
another note, what effect will having eiland as the ml pitching coach (not in the minors) have on the development of these great arms we always hear about? i know that the goal is to win in the ml, but will not having him in the minors hurt us in the long run?
The advantage to having eiland is that he has a lot of first-hand experience with the “big three” and the other young arms that may figure into the bullpen mix. It’s not that he’s some kind of amazing guru and that he’s worked magic with a bunch of scrubs.
Nardi Contreras is the real minor-league pitching guru, and he’s still in that position as far as I know.
Stupid Sportscenter!
They’re all like “LA Lakers made a trade! After the break!”
So I’m like ….Kobe? and I scramble to the Lakers’ webpage, and the trade is some guys I’ve never heard of.
Stupid Sportscenter.
Two things:
Good first basemen make you “think” that there aren’t too many difficult plays at first base. They are a godsend for middle infielders who don’t always throw on a line to 1B.
Regarding the 6-man rotation, I guess it must be very in vogue to talk about. I heard yesterday that the Atlanta Braves are considering it because they feel Smoltz will need the occasional extra rest, for one.
I think the major concern with the pitching staff is a predictable schedule, no matter what it is. And that it is clearly discussed with the staff.
My question is regarding the bullpen: can you schedule your relief pitchers?
Farnsworth+Sean Henn to the Rockies for Brian Fuentes
Johnny Damon+steven white+$$ to the ChiSox for Bobby Jenks+a body
Sign Jeremy Affeldt
Sign Andy Pettitte (give him whatever it takes, as with Rivera and Posada)
Sign Shannon Stewart
Rotation for 2008: hughes, wang, pettitte, chamberlain, kennedy/mussina
Bullpen for 2008: rivera, jenks, affeldt, fuentes, igawa, ohlendorf
Lineup for 2008: melky-cf, matsui-lf, abreu-rf, a-rod-3b, jeter-ss, cano-2b, betemit/duncan-1b, posada-c, giambi/stewart-dh
Bench-molina, gardner, gonzales
Can dream, eh?
Scott Patterson has only been in the Yankee organization for two years (signed out of Atlantic Independent League)
and is not eligible for the Rule 5 Draft. Apparently he was signed because the Yankee Front Office feared that he would be signed by another ML organization. He’s 28 yrs old but has two impressive seasons in MiLB.
Mike in SF — TI think a six-man rotation would still be tough on the bullpen, because not one of them has proven to be more than a five-inning starter.
jandek’s ghost -
Igawa ? Are you serious ? Shannon Stewart ? To do what ?
I heard at work about the Yankees a few years ago drafting a guy who can pitch with both arms. I know it sounds crazy but I truly heard this. I was also told that there will be a rule in place that he can not change arms in the middle of the count but can change between hitters. Am i getting my leg pulled or is this really true or even possible?
Nubie,
It was this year, but I believe he went back to school. He really wasn’t all that good either, I heard.
Nubie: the ambidextrous pitcher (“switch-pitcher”) you asked about is Pat Venditte – he was drafted but chose to complete his senior year at Creighton.
Question if the Yankees were to get two Type A players in trade or free agency how can they give up two first round picks?Or do they have to give up this year and next years drafts?
NUBIE
November 20th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
I heard at work about the Yankees a few years ago drafting a guy who can pitch with both arms. I know it sounds crazy but I truly heard this. I was also told that there will be a rule in place that he can not change arms in the middle of the count but can change between hitters. Am i getting my leg pulled or is this really true or even possible?
_______________________________________________________
That rule was put in place a few years ago when a pitcher named Greg Harris, who pitched for Seattle, Montreal and Boston, mainly, could pitch very effectively with both arms. He did in spring training, and those were the rules set down. He had to make a decision on which way to pitch to switch hitters, though, to keep each from switching from side to side. The problem was getting an MLB approved glove to fit both hands because it needed two webbings and made the glove over sized. Harris never did pitch this way in a regular season game, though.
I heard about the Yankee pitcher, but, not sure of his name.
My mistake. Greg A. Harris pitched with Texas, not Seattle. Also pitched with other teams, besides Boston, Montreal and Texas, including the Yankees.
Talk about 6-man rotations with some guys working on on 5 days rest…
When the kids were coming up to the big leagues over the summer, there was talk about how much they could realistically build up their innings from season to season.
I don’t see why guys like Moose, Pettitte & Wang couldn’t work regular schedule where they’re expected to go 6-8 innings at a time on 5 days rest, while the kids (Joba and Phil for example) are also on 5 days rest but are only expected to go 4 innings. Schedule them both for the same day, just pull one for the other in the 5th inning. THis would only be for the first couple months. When someone eventually falters or gets hurt mid-season (lets say a few guys could have aches at different points in the season) the kids would have been used sparingly up to that point, so everyone who’s healthy would have a regular workload. Finishing the season (2-4 months?) with the expectation of 6-7 or maybe 8 innings per start won’t be as taxing on the kids. By the end of the season, the kids would all go 7+ innings on 5 days rest while accumulating less innings over the season. And, their arms aren’t falling off because they’ve built up their game-length stamina during the season. That’s just one way to do it.
The other way to keep their innings down while keeping on a 5-day rest schedule would be to simply rotate the 3 kids in the last 3 spots on 5-day rest. Half the time they get 5 days rest, half the time 10 days rest.
I’m really not sure which way is better for keeping a pitcher sharp and in shape, but I think I’ll hear less razzing for the second idea than the first one.
Probably one of the three kids will start in Scranton, or get traded for Santana if Pettitte doesn’t come back, or one other prospect like Karstens would be rotated in somehow, so this could all be moot.
Correction: rotate the 3 in the last 2 spots (not 3 spots) sorry. Typo.
A-ROD is full of BULL